Meeting Title: Uttam_Robert Date: 2025-02-11 Meeting participants: Robert Arbolaez Iv, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:03:39.350 ⇒ 00:03:40.709 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Can you hear me?
2 00:03:41.680 ⇒ 00:03:43.370 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, I can hear you. How are you doing, man?
3 00:03:43.370 ⇒ 00:03:44.530 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Good! How are you?
4 00:03:45.710 ⇒ 00:03:47.369 Robert Arbolaez IV: Going well, man doing well.
5 00:03:48.210 ⇒ 00:03:53.500 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just tra just traveling so sorry if there’s a little bit of noise. I’m in Buenos Aires right now.
6 00:03:54.940 ⇒ 00:03:57.237 Robert Arbolaez IV: Oh, man, that sounds fun. Yeah.
7 00:03:58.550 ⇒ 00:03:59.877 Robert Arbolaez IV: I’m in Orlando.
8 00:04:00.853 ⇒ 00:04:15.069 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just a friend was traveling for a wedding, and he wanted he wanted to see if anyone wanted wanted to tag along. So I’m still working like all day here, but it’s just nice to get a change of pace, so.
9 00:04:16.480 ⇒ 00:04:17.599 Robert Arbolaez IV: For sure, for sure.
10 00:04:18.360 ⇒ 00:04:19.519 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, how’s everything?
11 00:04:20.950 ⇒ 00:04:22.909 Robert Arbolaez IV: It’s been good man. Been good, just trying to.
12 00:04:23.240 ⇒ 00:04:25.319 Robert Arbolaez IV: you know. Stick stick to it right now.
13 00:04:26.730 ⇒ 00:04:27.890 Robert Arbolaez IV: I can’t complain.
14 00:04:29.760 ⇒ 00:04:37.499 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. Yeah, things are getting busier. But we’re doing a lot more delegation at Brainforge. And like, we’re we’re almost hiring like.
15 00:04:38.060 ⇒ 00:04:42.990 Uttam Kumaran: it seems like one person every like 2 weeks or so, like the last, like few weeks, so.
16 00:04:44.060 ⇒ 00:04:44.600 Robert Arbolaez IV: Not anymore.
17 00:04:44.600 ⇒ 00:04:47.320 Uttam Kumaran: We just had like a wave of new business. And we’re like.
18 00:04:48.080 ⇒ 00:04:53.849 Uttam Kumaran: just like hiring more engineers, mainly, and then need to make a couple of like more senior.
19 00:04:54.350 ⇒ 00:05:00.970 Uttam Kumaran: you know, hires on the sales side and on the sort of like project management like engagement lead side. But
20 00:05:01.970 ⇒ 00:05:02.440 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha.
21 00:05:02.440 ⇒ 00:05:04.429 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, some stuff is growing. So.
22 00:05:07.040 ⇒ 00:05:09.531 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay, makes sense. And then,
23 00:05:10.490 ⇒ 00:05:16.609 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, I know you were kind of like interested in me specifically for this. And I kinda just want to know, like in terms of
24 00:05:17.130 ⇒ 00:05:23.319 Robert Arbolaez IV: where your line of sight is for for me, at brain for is like what type of role you’re kind of envisioning, and
25 00:05:23.440 ⇒ 00:05:25.170 Robert Arbolaez IV: what that looks like.
26 00:05:25.890 ⇒ 00:05:34.193 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so let me tell you, like, kind of like where we’re at now, I think. The nice thing is I think we have. We have the best
27 00:05:34.590 ⇒ 00:05:44.330 Uttam Kumaran: point of view on, like what we need for the company than we’ve ever had like before. We were sort of just hiring Willy Nelly. I also think, though, there’s still a lot to figure out
28 00:05:44.620 ⇒ 00:05:55.359 Uttam Kumaran: like we’re just now sort of balancing 5 or 6 clients. But we basically stopped kind of like pause selling just to make sure we can get all the work done. And like, grow the engineering
29 00:05:55.360 ⇒ 00:05:59.418 Uttam Kumaran: your team a little bit but really there’s a couple of things one
30 00:06:00.020 ⇒ 00:06:01.650 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll tell you sort of
31 00:06:01.790 ⇒ 00:06:07.058 Uttam Kumaran: where we’re sort of trying to plug a couple of holes. One is on the
32 00:06:07.920 ⇒ 00:06:18.410 Uttam Kumaran: One is on the actual like project management engagement side. Right? We, me and my business partner. We’re sort of the primary one sort of managing
33 00:06:18.620 ⇒ 00:06:28.970 Uttam Kumaran: clients, but more like managing the architecture. And then each client sort of has project management and engineers associated. So we’re trying to bring someone equivalent to us sort of that.
34 00:06:29.140 ⇒ 00:06:42.309 Uttam Kumaran: The data level to sort of manage those. The second thing we’re looking for is also people on the sales side. So we sell, you know, our data and AI services to
35 00:06:42.642 ⇒ 00:07:04.860 Uttam Kumaran: you know, mostly like medium to large size. Ecom and b 2 b Saas businesses. We’re also selling a little bit into health, a little bit into a few other sectors. And we have. We’re starting to build out sort of our sales, playbooks and lead lists. And we’re doing more account based selling so definitely, there’s, you know, opportunity there. The last piece, I think, is also on like
36 00:07:05.340 ⇒ 00:07:13.729 Uttam Kumaran: team and and recruiting. You know, again, we’re we sort of at the moment hire like kind of globally, but I’ll.
37 00:07:17.260 ⇒ 00:07:18.339 Robert Arbolaez IV: You cut out, Bud.
38 00:07:23.970 ⇒ 00:07:28.230 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of it is risk. And then also, like, basically, how do we actually assign them and get them.
39 00:07:28.230 ⇒ 00:07:29.239 Robert Arbolaez IV: On your mind.
40 00:07:29.240 ⇒ 00:07:30.080 Uttam Kumaran: Oh! Can you hear me?
41 00:07:31.190 ⇒ 00:07:33.136 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, you cut out one of the like.
42 00:07:33.710 ⇒ 00:07:36.790 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, I can hear you now. You cut out when it was like globally.
43 00:07:37.720 ⇒ 00:07:43.579 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. So we hire, we hire globally and at the moment.
44 00:07:44.080 ⇒ 00:08:03.689 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sort of managing everything. So again, we have people interviewing for AI engineering roles, data engineering roles, Dbt modeling. And for data analysis, and you know, we want to build a really strong pipeline of people, but also build up like, you know, make sure our current team is really good and sort of we’re moving
45 00:08:03.760 ⇒ 00:08:25.839 Uttam Kumaran: from sort of part time people to start to prioritize more full time folks in the engineering side. So there’s also a lot of work there on like actually recruiting, getting good getting good folks like interviewing and basically, how do we map those people to projects based on like what the need is and building out building out sort of that. Okay, here are all our projects. Here are the skill sets.
46 00:08:26.380 ⇒ 00:08:48.183 Uttam Kumaran: What are what’s coming up in the next month? Who do we need to go find all of that. We’re getting to a point now where I’m like, kind of exhausting a little bit of my network. But also again, we hire sort of everywhere. So we have a lot of people that are in pipeline. That sort of just need to be interviewed and move forward. So those are like the key big areas, you know, like,
47 00:08:48.580 ⇒ 00:08:56.610 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. Does any does do any of those sort of stand out? Can I go? Those are all kind of like a little bit separate. I think the last 2 are probably more
48 00:08:56.760 ⇒ 00:09:00.979 Uttam Kumaran: relevant. But yeah, what do you think.
49 00:09:02.642 ⇒ 00:09:14.517 Robert Arbolaez IV: For sure in terms of recruiting. I I have no like doubts about my skills in recruiting. So like recruiting, I can definitely be an impact there, for sure. I’ve been doing it for 6 years. And
50 00:09:15.020 ⇒ 00:09:23.090 Robert Arbolaez IV: I found a real passion for it over the 6 years. At 1st it just kind of started as a job to pay my bills, but I can see it as a career now.
51 00:09:25.191 ⇒ 00:09:28.570 Robert Arbolaez IV: With that being said because I work in such a large organization.
52 00:09:28.800 ⇒ 00:09:46.517 Robert Arbolaez IV: There are limitations to it. So I do do like the end. The full like life cycle, as you saw like from like the very 1st call with you to like going through the onboarding process, going through interview prep and then like kind of still keeping up with you while you’re on project
53 00:09:47.610 ⇒ 00:09:58.020 Robert Arbolaez IV: so that that I’m fully comfortable with I have no issues there. On the sales side, I do have a little bit of experience on the sales side. But we’ve talked about this before where
54 00:09:58.880 ⇒ 00:10:02.980 Robert Arbolaez IV: within tech systems, a lot of the sales opportunities I do get
55 00:10:03.110 ⇒ 00:10:06.339 Robert Arbolaez IV: are kind of handcuffed with an account manager.
56 00:10:06.520 ⇒ 00:10:11.619 Robert Arbolaez IV: So I can get in front of hiring managers. I can get in front of a lot of these teams.
57 00:10:11.720 ⇒ 00:10:28.110 Robert Arbolaez IV: but that’s technically the account manager’s job. So if I do, if I if I am part of that because of my expertise within like a specific skill set we can use like Snowflake, for example, I’m kind of just there like a technical resource, instead of actually selling to them, and more. So just guiding.
58 00:10:28.530 ⇒ 00:10:30.879 Robert Arbolaez IV: trying to figure out what they’re actually trying to
59 00:10:31.410 ⇒ 00:10:33.719 Robert Arbolaez IV: get for this position instead of
60 00:10:33.970 ⇒ 00:10:39.139 Robert Arbolaez IV: pitching. Oh, here’s what tech system is doing from a sales perspective.
61 00:10:40.680 ⇒ 00:10:54.481 Robert Arbolaez IV: so those 2? Yeah, I feel I feel comfortable within, obviously recruiting more so. Project management. I’ve always been interested in project management. I can’t lie to you and say, I’ve I’ve had anything more than like college courses on it.
62 00:10:56.160 ⇒ 00:11:18.899 Robert Arbolaez IV: that would like when I 1st started recruiting, I was like, Okay, maybe I could turn this into a project management role or some type of like agile role. And I’ve had conversations with folks around that I just never kind of went full fledged into it. So I’m definitely interested in that part, but I feel like the my most value would probably be on recruiting and sales@firstst
63 00:11:19.650 ⇒ 00:11:25.689 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. So like, I mean, definitely, I think, like, we have a lot to learn on the recruiting side. Like.
64 00:11:25.800 ⇒ 00:11:31.579 Uttam Kumaran: I mean again, we’re in the people business. I we’re trying to hire someone
65 00:11:31.970 ⇒ 00:11:51.359 Uttam Kumaran: long term who has hired like at scale and understands like, okay, how do we get the right people to the right gig. The other thing is, you know, the the one thing that you’ll have here is one like I and and my partner. We. We understand, like what the roles are. So you’re not just being like, go get us like X technology. And like.
66 00:11:51.760 ⇒ 00:11:59.540 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it. It’s it’s more like, we actually only do a couple of things, and we have a really good understanding of who we need. Second, we can hire.
67 00:11:59.540 ⇒ 00:12:00.005 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha.
68 00:12:00.470 ⇒ 00:12:14.100 Uttam Kumaran: We could hire kind of globally which opens up a lot of opportunity and, like, you know, rate wise. I think we have a little bit of a range, but also we’re not going for like super senior people right now. So
69 00:12:14.130 ⇒ 00:12:33.929 Uttam Kumaran: I think honestly, at the moment we’re we’re benefiting a lot from like, just like there being a lot of people who globally and in the Us who are looking for stuff, especially in Dbt and stuff where? Yeah, there are senior people. But we’re looking for sort of like, young, hungry, hungry people that are like can be can discuss the clients and aren’t just like
70 00:12:34.180 ⇒ 00:12:40.059 Uttam Kumaran: push off in the back. And, like, you know, we, we move pretty quickly. So I think there’s some fun. And
71 00:12:40.060 ⇒ 00:12:44.380 Uttam Kumaran: so joy there as well, and we’re also building a team. So this isn’t a team full of like.
72 00:12:44.500 ⇒ 00:13:06.239 Uttam Kumaran: just like part time contractors like everybody is in our all company meetings like engineering meetings like we’re we’re trying to build people that are gonna be with us for the long term. So not just plug and hold, but trying to find people like, Okay, can you stay with us for 5 years? Like, if you want to build like an engineering career here? So we’ve and we’ve gotten some really, really good talent so far off, of like
73 00:13:06.560 ⇒ 00:13:08.908 Uttam Kumaran: just pure luck, I feel like
74 00:13:09.460 ⇒ 00:13:13.759 Uttam Kumaran: And so I think there’s an opportunity there to sort of help us organize.
75 00:13:14.000 ⇒ 00:13:35.930 Uttam Kumaran: like also how we interview, like, how setting, leveling guidelines, and then also for assignment like, how do we? How can we map skill sets to. People make sure they get put into the the right opportunity, and then basically sales sorts of closes, closes the client who’s gonna staff that right? So one, it’s almost managing, like internal resourcing. And
76 00:13:36.080 ⇒ 00:13:41.310 Uttam Kumaran: like, okay, if we need to go external, who do we need? Right? So that’s sort of like, realistically
77 00:13:41.310 ⇒ 00:14:08.439 Uttam Kumaran: what I own right now, where I lead engineering. So I look at who’s on the bench like, who’s on our team? Who can go? Who can? Who’s senior enough to go multiple clients. What is the client need like? Okay, it’s the Ecom client that we need someone who on the team has Ecom background. Are they available? So that’s sort of like resource planning, too. I I would say. It’s not just the external recruiting part. I would also be looking for someone who can also manage
78 00:14:08.740 ⇒ 00:14:27.089 Uttam Kumaran: again like kind of the full life cycle of putting the people in the right place. And then again, sort of being probably not being on the hook, for, like. Okay, the execution is a little bit off your hands, but still being in touch with like, okay, the the engagement lead for that client. Okay, are these the right people? Do we need more people? For example, we.
79 00:14:27.850 ⇒ 00:14:29.530 Robert Arbolaez IV: 3 months, and seeing where things stand.
80 00:14:29.720 ⇒ 00:14:41.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we typically sign 3 month agreements with clients. And that’s growing. But like, probably a month before the renewal, we’ll know, like, Okay, are we gonna expand? We one more person right right now, we sort of just like
81 00:14:41.380 ⇒ 00:14:51.210 Uttam Kumaran: we just figure it out like as stuff happens. And it’s brutal. Right? And I’m probably spending like 10% of my time on recruiting. And it’s like
82 00:14:51.380 ⇒ 00:15:16.530 Uttam Kumaran: a really important thing. So that’s I think, where I think like short term. There’s probably a lot of opportunity, I think, to give you a sense of the sales side. I don’t know how far I think like. Honestly, if if you’re already hiring for the roles, you, you have to have a little bit of understanding of what’s going on in the sales side. And so for me, I don’t want to box people in, because I really don’t know whether we have
83 00:15:16.640 ⇒ 00:15:19.009 Uttam Kumaran: like right now, like
84 00:15:19.230 ⇒ 00:15:37.809 Uttam Kumaran: basically, like 8 h every day of work on the recruiting side. Right? So I want to give folks an opportunity to work across another part of the company, one of which is sales. And what is sales is really just like, okay, we were getting leads in. You understanding. Okay, what are the services that we sell? And then, basically, like, okay, can we?
85 00:15:38.220 ⇒ 00:15:39.230 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? I’m gonna
86 00:15:39.800 ⇒ 00:15:47.970 Uttam Kumaran: email, or I’m gonna take an intro call with some with like the CEO of an Econ company, explain sort of the things we do. I mean again, it’s a lot of what you do
87 00:15:48.440 ⇒ 00:15:54.630 Uttam Kumaran: anyways, like. I really feel like when you talked about Baylor. To me, you basically explained, like what they need and everything they do.
88 00:15:55.610 ⇒ 00:15:56.310 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, it’s.
89 00:15:56.310 ⇒ 00:16:25.539 Uttam Kumaran: Just that except like yours you were, you’d be selling to like a bailiff. But the nice thing is these aren’t like huge enterprises. These are like again, like medium to large E-com, B, 2 B saas, and they they call us, and they just want to be walked through like a deck of like, okay, what are the data and AI services we offer? Okay, can we build out like the case for why they would want to bring us in that budget. Is it important right now? But there’s also like a lot of opportunity on our team for sales, like we are in the process of trying to bring on
90 00:16:25.980 ⇒ 00:16:29.140 Uttam Kumaran: one person dedicated. But I don’t know. I feel like
91 00:16:29.890 ⇒ 00:16:35.049 Uttam Kumaran: that like that, I think, is really nice, because clients don’t often want to be like handed off
92 00:16:35.210 ⇒ 00:16:40.340 Uttam Kumaran: right. And the one thing that we’ve done a good job on, and why they work with us is that they call.
93 00:16:40.650 ⇒ 00:16:44.899 Uttam Kumaran: They talk to me or my partner, and we sort of we not only do the sale we then work.
94 00:16:44.900 ⇒ 00:16:46.870 Robert Arbolaez IV: With them on the engagement.
95 00:16:46.870 ⇒ 00:17:11.739 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And they like that because they’re like, I’m not just working with another consultancy that, like, I talked to the salesperson and the sales like, Okay, great, like, nice. Nice to see you guys like I’m gonna hand you off to like another person. And that person hands them off to another person, and it’s disjointed right, not by fault of any of the people, but just by fault of you, get passed off right, and that’s not like a cohesive experience. The problem is, it’s tough, because.
96 00:17:11.890 ⇒ 00:17:35.237 Uttam Kumaran: like, I can no longer spend more than like a quarter of my time working on clients. And so we’re trying to find ways that salespeople can also help recruit, or engineers can also help like sell and do engagement stuff and sort of building more cohesion, so it seems less disjointed for for new clients.
97 00:17:36.040 ⇒ 00:17:41.769 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha a couple of questions. So one, are you getting like lead generation? What does that look like?
98 00:17:42.880 ⇒ 00:17:46.425 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So we have a few primary channels. So one
99 00:17:46.900 ⇒ 00:17:51.089 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve worked with, you know, almost like, probably like 30 companies
100 00:17:51.200 ⇒ 00:18:07.780 Uttam Kumaran: to date since, like the last 2 years. So we have a lot of word of mouth that’s still coming in. Basically, clients have worked with us. They either leave to a new company, or they, they talk to someone they’re like, Hey, how are you doing data? They refer us. So one that’s a big part of our business second part is partnerships.
101 00:18:07.780 ⇒ 00:18:08.130 Robert Arbolaez IV: Got it.
102 00:18:08.130 ⇒ 00:18:35.910 Uttam Kumaran: So we have a lot of vendor partnerships with like different bi tools with different data tools different event management tools like segment. Mix panel amplitude. When they have clients that need to implement their software and they may not have a professional services arm, they send some deals to us right? And so it’s not like it’s signed, seen and sealed and delivered. But it’s like, Hey, these guys do great work. And then we basically make ourselves. So those are 2 things. One is word of mouth. Second is sort of
103 00:18:35.980 ⇒ 00:18:39.570 Uttam Kumaran: partnerships. We also have, like referral partners, basically like
104 00:18:40.040 ⇒ 00:19:06.514 Uttam Kumaran: friends who are pretty well connected in one industry or another that are like, get people ask them like, Hey, how do you do you know anyone in data? And they refer us, and we sort of give them a little bit of a deal. The last part is sort of cold. So we have. We use AI for a lot of our cold, outbound strategy. So we have built up messaging around AI and data. And we message people on email, we send out Linkedin. This stuff is very low, like hit rate, though.
105 00:19:07.110 ⇒ 00:19:07.580 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah.
106 00:19:07.825 ⇒ 00:19:14.449 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of a lot of that stuff I feel like, even in the long term. I don’t know how long we’re gonna do just because.
107 00:19:14.450 ⇒ 00:19:15.120 Robert Arbolaez IV: Beautiful.
108 00:19:15.120 ⇒ 00:19:31.400 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of. It’s a lot of effort, and the results aren’t great. But we are. We are trying, and I want to exhaust. Sort of like, is it our messaging? Or is it actually just that like people don’t mark reading anything? But we are actually, we do have still a ton of
109 00:19:31.490 ⇒ 00:19:46.360 Uttam Kumaran: leads in the pipeline where it’s either someone me or my partner knows. It’s someone that was referred to us in the past. It’s a past client that we worked with, that just needs to be reengaged, or someone in the past, that we just wasn’t the right time, and they need to be re-engaged. So we do have a lot.
110 00:19:46.360 ⇒ 00:19:46.920 Robert Arbolaez IV: Out!
111 00:19:46.920 ⇒ 00:19:51.929 Uttam Kumaran: Of stuff available there. However, it’s it’s not like, so cut and dry where it’s like
112 00:19:52.500 ⇒ 00:19:58.180 Uttam Kumaran: it. It still require you. It’ll require you to sort of learn what we sell right? But again, this is where I’m like. You.
113 00:19:58.180 ⇒ 00:19:58.800 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay.
114 00:19:58.800 ⇒ 00:20:14.570 Uttam Kumaran: You sort of understood. At least it sounded like you understood a lot of what we what was needed on the Snowflake side, which is really what we primarily sell. In addition to dashboard like building up dashboards around event analytics, sales, finance marketing things like that.
115 00:20:15.940 ⇒ 00:20:22.029 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay, okay. So that that makes sense. And yeah, like that was, I’ve been
116 00:20:22.230 ⇒ 00:20:25.809 Robert Arbolaez IV: like, I feel like I said this before. But I specialize within Snowflake back in
117 00:20:25.990 ⇒ 00:20:34.999 Robert Arbolaez IV: like 2019 2020, and then that kind of went into the Dbt stuff. So I definitely feel confident my skills, kind of talking about that, and
118 00:20:35.110 ⇒ 00:20:36.669 Robert Arbolaez IV: being able to
119 00:20:37.710 ⇒ 00:20:47.739 Robert Arbolaez IV: understand from a high level of what clients are looking for for those specific skill sets, and like kind of varying that between different clients so like Baylor, health isn’t the only Snowflake Dvt client that I work with.
120 00:20:48.810 ⇒ 00:21:02.750 Robert Arbolaez IV: So being able to decipher like how in depth this person needs to be for each client specifically. So, yeah, I feel confident there and then say, for example, like you get a lead, is it just more so like, I need to kind of using a quarter of your time there now. But
121 00:21:02.910 ⇒ 00:21:09.190 Robert Arbolaez IV: are you just like really just following up with that lead, like, on a cold calling to be like, Hey, following up here. Just wanted to reach out to you.
122 00:21:09.400 ⇒ 00:21:11.270 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, like, yeah. Like, like, yeah.
123 00:21:11.270 ⇒ 00:21:26.519 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly like. Let me give you an example so like a friend of mine the other day is like, Hey, my A friend of mine. He, his girlfriend, plays for like one of the soccer teams out of Lexington, Kentucky. And they need some like data help measuring their their stadium. He’s like, Yeah, I’m getting lunch with the CEO.
124 00:21:26.620 ⇒ 00:21:43.310 Uttam Kumaran: Do? What like? What can I tell him? So basically, I sent him a deck. I said, like, here’s our talking points. Let’s say he’s like cool. He wants to hop on a call schedule a call. Go on 30 min call where we just basically walk through. Okay, tell me about your current data issues. Tell me about sort of how you measure things in the past
125 00:21:43.420 ⇒ 00:22:06.360 Uttam Kumaran: you basically want to identify is their budget. Is there a sense of urgency? You know. And and then and then you basically say, Okay, here’s we put together, like, okay, here’s roughly what we could do. We? We basically have like 3 packages. Right now, we sell an audit where we come in. And for most clients is how we start where we come in, and we do 2 weeks of work where we just look at all their current systems and give them sort of a 3 to 6 month roadmap
126 00:22:06.972 ⇒ 00:22:18.150 Uttam Kumaran: and then we also sell like 15 K and 25 K packages. Which are around Dbt data modeling, setting up snowflake and then doing, you know, analytics and dashboarding?
127 00:22:18.499 ⇒ 00:22:32.059 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, so the initial call is really just meeting with them and sort of understanding all the requirements. And then we we typically try to do like 2 calls and close right like one. It’s like making sure we’re talking to the right person. So sometimes we get in. And you’re like, Okay, clearly, this person does not.
128 00:22:32.060 ⇒ 00:22:32.520 Robert Arbolaez IV: In the owners.
129 00:22:32.520 ⇒ 00:22:48.070 Uttam Kumaran: Over this, or they don’t have the budget. So who’s the right person? The second thing is like? Is this urgent for them? And is it a data problem? Right? Some people have a problems around like we don’t sell that. I could pass you to somebody. But we don’t. That’s not what we do. So those are the things I look for. And then, yeah, basically, at the moment.
130 00:22:48.070 ⇒ 00:22:48.660 Robert Arbolaez IV: You know.
131 00:22:48.660 ⇒ 00:22:53.495 Uttam Kumaran: Me and my partner are taking a lot of those. I would just basically hand that off.
132 00:22:54.020 ⇒ 00:22:54.480 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha.
133 00:22:54.480 ⇒ 00:23:02.769 Uttam Kumaran: Where it’s like, Okay, here’s a lead. And then it’s also again, it’s also everything around like putting together sows and then sending contracts like sort of closing.
134 00:23:02.770 ⇒ 00:23:03.259 Robert Arbolaez IV: Thank you.
135 00:23:03.260 ⇒ 00:23:04.829 Uttam Kumaran: Closing everything out. Yeah.
136 00:23:05.940 ⇒ 00:23:10.030 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, that was my next question in terms of like onboarding. So like, how do you onboard? A new client.
137 00:23:10.940 ⇒ 00:23:26.299 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so typically what we like, we so we we before they close, we send out sows which we have like, basically templates for that are really well designed. And we put together. Okay, can you guys give a verbal? Yes. We then send the contracts over. They sign
138 00:23:26.562 ⇒ 00:23:41.500 Uttam Kumaran: typically, we add everybody to a slack connect channel so that we can talk directly with clients, and then we also create internal channels in our slack workspace for our team and engineers. And then we sort of pick off. So we have a kickoff meeting, and then we usually do one meeting a week
139 00:23:41.540 ⇒ 00:23:49.519 Uttam Kumaran: where we sort of present, like, Okay, what’s our progress? And then everything else is typically Async, either email or slack
140 00:23:49.980 ⇒ 00:23:59.990 Uttam Kumaran: and then, if we need to present something or get more feedback the engineers or the people on the on the spot are more than free to meet directly with the stakeholders, so we don’t do
141 00:24:00.040 ⇒ 00:24:20.580 Uttam Kumaran: like daily. Stand ups. We don’t really do. We don’t do like staff augmentation necessarily like unless the rates are really insane. I. We also won’t do Pretty. We won’t do hourly anymore, because it’s a kind of unpredictable like to give you a sense like our hourly. If people don’t want to go with the packages. Our hourly rate is 2 50 an hour.
142 00:24:22.080 ⇒ 00:24:22.600 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha.
143 00:24:22.600 ⇒ 00:24:23.920 Uttam Kumaran: For so
144 00:24:24.100 ⇒ 00:24:38.930 Uttam Kumaran: unless clients are like, Hey, I don’t want to sign a commitment. Then that’s our. That’s our path forward. The reason being is that signing people on monthly packages is way more predictable than like sort of counting hours and doing that. And also, like the
145 00:24:39.040 ⇒ 00:25:07.019 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not doing staff augmentation at like a tech systems level where they’re like, we need 40 people here, a bunch of people here. It’s really like, sort of like, almost like a navy seal pod work where it’s like we just need a full stack data team to come in and like link our shit up and we go in, and we kind of do that. Some people keep us on for long term. Some people just want us to get them set up before they can hire some people sort of bring us on in a heavy way and then keep us on lighter. But we’re trying. We moved away from hourly because it was so unpredictable.
146 00:25:07.780 ⇒ 00:25:10.150 Uttam Kumaran: Instead, we’re trying to be more like outcome.
147 00:25:10.870 ⇒ 00:25:26.849 Uttam Kumaran: based as much as possible. And then, really, the difference between the 25 and the 15 is just the capacity and the complexity. Like the 25 K, typically, we’re coming in as like basically their full stack data team like head of data, analytics, engineers, data engineer and an analyst
148 00:25:27.311 ⇒ 00:25:36.350 Uttam Kumaran: the 15 K package may just be like some light strategy work. But more implementation, and even that, like we’re figuring we’re sort of figuring out as we go. So.
149 00:25:37.500 ⇒ 00:25:37.980 Robert Arbolaez IV: Got it.
150 00:25:37.980 ⇒ 00:25:39.600 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay? Makes sense.
151 00:25:40.640 ⇒ 00:25:45.009 Robert Arbolaez IV: and I know you kind of, answered one of my other questions in terms of like, say, you go through like your
152 00:25:45.220 ⇒ 00:25:49.980 Robert Arbolaez IV: 3 to 6 month initiative. Have you had clients say, like, Hey, we just want to keep you longer term than that.
153 00:25:52.030 ⇒ 00:25:54.029 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. Wait! Could you see the last part again?
154 00:25:55.050 ⇒ 00:26:05.370 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, I was saying, like, say, you go through like that 3 months, 6 month initiative, kinda helping them stand up their environment or even trying to take it a little bit past that. Have you had? People say, like, Hey, we want you here
155 00:26:05.530 ⇒ 00:26:07.900 Robert Arbolaez IV: longer than 6 months longer than 3 months.
156 00:26:08.340 ⇒ 00:26:13.981 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, I mean, we have clients that have been us. We’ve been with us for like more than a year.
157 00:26:14.470 ⇒ 00:26:26.340 Uttam Kumaran: you know some clients, of course, like we experience a lot of growth in just the last 6 months. But we’ve had several clients move from moving month to month to retainer and then because typically we.
158 00:26:26.560 ⇒ 00:26:44.322 Uttam Kumaran: they will, they see data as a way for revenue growth. So they’re never gonna really like not stop using analytics. So it’s a very yeah, it’s a very sticky product. And then our job is really to find out. Okay, can we continue to upsell them on more value added stuff, more analysis.
159 00:26:45.030 ⇒ 00:27:12.309 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, you know. And also, this is why we we don’t work with companies that are sort of like startups or pre revenue. Like, we really try to go on the E-com side. We’re going after clients that are making at least 10 million in revenue per year on the b 2 b Saas side, we’re working with at least series startups or higher. So people have budget to spend in fact, for the most part. People either have tried to hire a data team, and they messed up, or they’re sort of like about to hire. But they’re like, I don’t want to pay
160 00:27:12.440 ⇒ 00:27:17.109 Uttam Kumaran: like, you know, I don’t want to pay 30, 40, 50 grand a month
161 00:27:17.240 ⇒ 00:27:26.529 Uttam Kumaran: for like 3 people when I could just bring you guys on. And we’ve done this so many times that it’s we have all the answers. So they they really do enjoy working with us.
162 00:27:28.060 ⇒ 00:27:31.259 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha. Okay, cool. No, that definitely makes sense. And Mike,
163 00:27:33.070 ⇒ 00:27:36.380 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah. Honestly, man, I’m definitely interested. I definitely wanna kinda
164 00:27:36.580 ⇒ 00:27:38.900 Robert Arbolaez IV: move forward in terms of like
165 00:27:39.580 ⇒ 00:27:42.439 Robert Arbolaez IV: again, just providing value on the recruiting side, and I can count.
166 00:27:42.440 ⇒ 00:27:42.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
167 00:27:42.800 ⇒ 00:27:46.080 Robert Arbolaez IV: Be a value. Add there, like, even when you were talking about this.
168 00:27:47.960 ⇒ 00:27:56.040 Robert Arbolaez IV: I’ve like like bringing new engineers. One person already came to mind that I can send your way. Funny enough, like I had an interview for
169 00:27:56.850 ⇒ 00:28:00.860 Robert Arbolaez IV: Baylor, and like he’s good. But he’s like not like
170 00:28:00.990 ⇒ 00:28:03.730 Robert Arbolaez IV: I feel like Baylor’s a very intense Dbt environment.
171 00:28:04.900 ⇒ 00:28:19.549 Robert Arbolaez IV: And they haven’t. They haven’t really given us feedback as of yet. But he’s primarily looking for full time roles, anyway. He kind of, let me know like, Hey, if I come across this like, if they give me an offer, I’ll take it. But I probably will only want to be there for 6 months.
172 00:28:20.040 ⇒ 00:28:20.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
173 00:28:20.730 ⇒ 00:28:24.479 Robert Arbolaez IV: Environment to kind of grow into a full time role and
174 00:28:25.810 ⇒ 00:28:28.999 Robert Arbolaez IV: just overall cool guy and has really sharp Dbt skills. Just
175 00:28:29.940 ⇒ 00:28:34.819 Robert Arbolaez IV: I wouldn’t put it like on your level. In terms of like seniority, but
176 00:28:35.220 ⇒ 00:28:39.134 Robert Arbolaez IV: definitely definitely sharp and definitely capable for sure. So
177 00:28:40.180 ⇒ 00:28:46.709 Robert Arbolaez IV: if things kind of check out. I’ll flow his resume over your way, like, how would you want me to present you candidates in terms of people that
178 00:28:46.860 ⇒ 00:28:51.080 Robert Arbolaez IV: I’m seeing, or that feel like will be a good fit for you.
179 00:28:51.780 ⇒ 00:29:10.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess, like, even before that, like, what do you, I guess, like for for me, I think the biggest thing for this role is like, I don’t. I don’t know in the foreseeable future whether we’ll bring on another like dedicated person on the people side. Right? So for me, it’s like I want to bring someone on that’s like Yo. I want to help Brainforge by
180 00:29:10.560 ⇒ 00:29:26.539 Uttam Kumaran: hiring and placing the best people you know, and still maintaining, like our goals for margin and everything. And for me like, that’s the most important thing. It’s not purely like a plug and play like, okay, just go in and and recruit. It’s like a
181 00:29:26.930 ⇒ 00:29:37.820 Uttam Kumaran: this is our company has like, we’re we’re trying to build like a very core engineering team that can move across clients that we can match. And so I think that’s the thing to think about is like.
182 00:29:38.820 ⇒ 00:29:39.470 Robert Arbolaez IV: Gotcha.
183 00:29:39.470 ⇒ 00:29:55.719 Uttam Kumaran: Like like, if if that’s that’s like more about what you want. And then also it’s like looking at things long term. Look, I think. I have to talk. We weren’t in the market to hire someone directly for recruiting now, but I really do think that your skill set and you’ve done it at a very
184 00:29:55.820 ⇒ 00:30:13.039 Uttam Kumaran: see? You’ve done it at tech systems, which means, you know, like the 80 20 of like, what is like bureaucracy versus what’s like, actually an effective playbook and like what are effective processes. That’s the thing we don’t know like I’ve hired. But I’ve I’ve hired like just for people for teams. I’ve never hired
185 00:30:13.050 ⇒ 00:30:36.319 Uttam Kumaran: like I, you know, for brain boards. I’ve hired more than 20 people alone, but like I’m not a recruiter. So everything around how we recruit, and even the experience for the engineers. Right? A lot of people that we recruit. They may not be able to fit right now. But they come back a year later, and they’re like, Hey, I I loved our conversation. I want to work with you. So it’s it’s it’s even just like that which is like it’s not
186 00:30:36.880 ⇒ 00:30:59.369 Uttam Kumaran: just like sales. People will come back around, and I see I see the recruiting side almost very similar to sales, and that we’re building relationships. And even if it doesn’t work out for people now, they may tell their friends they may come back around. They may refer us clients like we’ve had candidate past candidates refer us clients. So there’s really like an art, and like a sort of like a huge approach towards building becoming like a
187 00:30:59.460 ⇒ 00:31:09.770 Uttam Kumaran: a well known brand for treating engineers really great. Because the one thing about engineers is like, yeah, the money is one thing, but a lot of the environments they work in suck like the the.
188 00:31:09.770 ⇒ 00:31:10.090 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah.
189 00:31:10.090 ⇒ 00:31:29.289 Uttam Kumaran: Suck. The work is not interesting, or they’re like very disrespected or not valued right? And that’s totally opposite. Because the reason why people like working at Brainpor is like, I I know, exactly like what we’re doing on the engineering side. I give them. I give people a lot of room to grow, and a lot of room to sort of make mistakes and learn
190 00:31:29.563 ⇒ 00:31:47.320 Uttam Kumaran: but we are an engineering company. And so I think people really in in data consulting. It’s not really like this, like, typically, you go somewhere and they’re like, cool. Go to. Here’s like 5 tickets, go work. Instead, we’re trying to build a really like holistic team, you know. And so I do think that we have some advantage there that I want
191 00:31:47.330 ⇒ 00:31:53.500 Uttam Kumaran: to use. So we get leverage over over over talent, right? Like people may be open to taking less
192 00:31:53.650 ⇒ 00:32:14.530 Uttam Kumaran: by working with us because it’s more stable. And there they could see a career here and then, additionally, like for everybody on the team, we’re working on things that are also incentive, based like, how do we do profit sharing, or some sort of equity program with the team, so that as the business wins and we hit our goals like everybody sort of shares in that. And that’s that’s something. Also, it’s again like we’re trying to bring people on who
193 00:32:14.710 ⇒ 00:32:38.460 Uttam Kumaran: don’t see this as like, Okay, I’m gonna I’ll I could be there for like a year. And then just dip. I think it’s more like, okay, can you, can we actually take this from like, can we like 5 x this company? And sort of can I start to own like an entire area? Right? And so a lot of the people we hire, we look at people that are just like high agency, like, just like you ask kind of ask questions. Second, just like, run towards the goal. First, st you know. And I think if that’s.
194 00:32:38.460 ⇒ 00:32:39.100 Robert Arbolaez IV: And that’s.
195 00:32:39.100 ⇒ 00:32:44.500 Uttam Kumaran: That’s interesting. I think. You know this is a it’s not easy, but I think this is a good place to be.
196 00:32:46.020 ⇒ 00:32:48.889 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, no, I agree, man, like like I said, I’ve been.
197 00:32:49.510 ⇒ 00:32:53.841 Robert Arbolaez IV: That’s like the number one complaint from every person that I’ve kind of talked to
198 00:32:54.910 ⇒ 00:32:58.649 Robert Arbolaez IV: within the data world, just from like how they’re treated. Because
199 00:32:59.261 ⇒ 00:33:01.719 Robert Arbolaez IV: like you said, it’s a lot of
200 00:33:03.630 ⇒ 00:33:08.129 Robert Arbolaez IV: not taken advantage of. But it’s almost kind of just like forgotten like, Oh, go.
201 00:33:08.320 ⇒ 00:33:12.550 Robert Arbolaez IV: go! Do this work, and then I’ll come back to you if I need you, you know.
202 00:33:12.550 ⇒ 00:33:12.900 Uttam Kumaran: Computer.
203 00:33:13.420 ⇒ 00:33:16.280 Robert Arbolaez IV: Like, yeah, so yeah, yeah, that’s
204 00:33:16.280 ⇒ 00:33:20.563 Robert Arbolaez IV: be a successful way to kind of develop any type of partnership.
205 00:33:21.590 ⇒ 00:33:36.930 Robert Arbolaez IV: and like, that’s a big selling point for us. A lot of the clients that I kind of talk to is like, hey, like, how? How is the work? Environment? How are you treating contractors compared to full timers. Because, again, that’s just a big complaint of like you can feel like a contractor when you’re working in a full time
206 00:33:37.050 ⇒ 00:33:41.740 Robert Arbolaez IV: company and that divide is really, really crazy sometimes. So
207 00:33:42.160 ⇒ 00:33:49.740 Robert Arbolaez IV: no, I definitely understand where you’re coming from there. So I I can already feel that just from you and your conversation of what you’re kind of ideally looking for. And that’ll be like
208 00:33:50.420 ⇒ 00:33:56.670 Robert Arbolaez IV: if I’m selling a role for tech systems or selling a role for Brainforge, I would definitely put Brainforge at the top of like
209 00:33:58.840 ⇒ 00:34:01.580 Robert Arbolaez IV: hey? If you want to join a company that
210 00:34:01.690 ⇒ 00:34:04.090 Robert Arbolaez IV: you will feel valued from day one.
211 00:34:04.230 ⇒ 00:34:05.690 Robert Arbolaez IV: Then you would go this way.
212 00:34:06.320 ⇒ 00:34:06.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
213 00:34:08.510 ⇒ 00:34:21.100 Uttam Kumaran: So what do you think? Like, what’s I know? Last time we talked you sort of mentioned that like, hey? It’s it’s stuff is pretty stable at tech systems like, what do you think about making a move and like, what can? What can I take back to my
214 00:34:21.230 ⇒ 00:34:25.400 Uttam Kumaran: partner and sort of talk about like what you would need to to sort of consider us.
215 00:34:26.098 ⇒ 00:34:27.090 Uttam Kumaran: You know. I think.
216 00:34:27.090 ⇒ 00:34:27.560 Robert Arbolaez IV: Oh!
217 00:34:27.560 ⇒ 00:34:29.219 Uttam Kumaran: Give you a sense of like where
218 00:34:29.400 ⇒ 00:34:33.179 Uttam Kumaran: where we’re at like, I’ll I’ll learn a little bit about sort of what our
219 00:34:33.380 ⇒ 00:34:46.869 Uttam Kumaran: we’re. We’re sort of finalizing budgets for hiring right now for the rest of the year, but would love to have a sense of like sort of what you’re thinking of what you need and like, try to go back and see like how I can build something up, build up the case for that.
220 00:34:48.290 ⇒ 00:34:50.520 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, it’s tough, because I know, like.
221 00:34:50.929 ⇒ 00:34:55.380 Robert Arbolaez IV: I know, like my salary, expectations are a little skewed just because of
222 00:34:57.190 ⇒ 00:34:59.639 Robert Arbolaez IV: where I’m at tenure wise within recruiting.
223 00:35:02.590 ⇒ 00:35:04.639 Robert Arbolaez IV: So like, real realistically like
224 00:35:05.080 ⇒ 00:35:08.389 Robert Arbolaez IV: comfortably like for me to make a change, it would be have to be like around 1 50.
225 00:35:08.570 ⇒ 00:35:09.610 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay.
226 00:35:10.910 ⇒ 00:35:14.539 Robert Arbolaez IV: And even then it’s like, all right, like.
227 00:35:14.880 ⇒ 00:35:16.699 Robert Arbolaez IV: I can probably make the switch. But
228 00:35:17.134 ⇒ 00:35:20.589 Robert Arbolaez IV: it’s it’s I. It’s tough. Because again, like this, ability of
229 00:35:20.750 ⇒ 00:35:24.700 Robert Arbolaez IV: tech systems like even at the peak of the pandemic. They were kind of there for me.
230 00:35:24.800 ⇒ 00:35:26.149 Uttam Kumaran: And I have.
231 00:35:27.380 ⇒ 00:35:31.482 Robert Arbolaez IV: There’s a lot of loyalty there, too, because they kind of stuck by me even at my lowest
232 00:35:31.710 ⇒ 00:35:32.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
233 00:35:32.460 ⇒ 00:35:39.799 Robert Arbolaez IV: So it’s it’s hard. I will be transparent. It’s very hard. But the fact that I’m kind of even open to the conversation. Is a big deal. So
234 00:35:39.920 ⇒ 00:35:45.370 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, realistically, one that 1 50 range is like kind of a starting point.
235 00:35:45.370 ⇒ 00:35:46.540 Uttam Kumaran: Would you be open percent?
236 00:35:46.540 ⇒ 00:35:49.090 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like, also, like incentive based,
237 00:35:50.710 ⇒ 00:35:52.250 Robert Arbolaez IV: For sure. Yeah, like.
238 00:35:52.250 ⇒ 00:35:52.605 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
239 00:35:53.200 ⇒ 00:35:56.610 Robert Arbolaez IV: That’s that’s like tech systems is commission based. So like, I have a
240 00:35:56.810 ⇒ 00:36:01.488 Robert Arbolaez IV: a base salary. But a lot of the money that I get is from commissions.
241 00:36:01.800 ⇒ 00:36:07.349 Uttam Kumaran: And is it commission on, like, on, like, on, like people closing, or what it like? What’s the sort of structure.
242 00:36:08.240 ⇒ 00:36:13.400 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, it’s it’s literally commissions on like people getting jobs. So like each person that I place
243 00:36:14.056 ⇒ 00:36:16.990 Robert Arbolaez IV: there’s commission behind that. And then there’s like
244 00:36:17.470 ⇒ 00:36:25.499 Robert Arbolaez IV: quarterly bonuses depending on how many people I place, and then the yearly incentive of like we have like a contest thing so like, if you average
245 00:36:25.640 ⇒ 00:36:34.519 Robert Arbolaez IV: a certain amount for that the throughout the year. There’s another additional kicker as well. So all that put together is usually where where it comes in, around
246 00:36:34.690 ⇒ 00:36:42.917 Robert Arbolaez IV: 1 50. So like up, I think. But my best year was like around 2 70, realistically
247 00:36:44.640 ⇒ 00:36:51.230 Robert Arbolaez IV: So I I definitely don’t want to put it there, because that was literally my best year. But on average around 1 50 is where
248 00:36:51.950 ⇒ 00:36:53.310 Robert Arbolaez IV: whereabouts mountain.
249 00:36:53.810 ⇒ 00:37:02.929 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, that makes sense. I mean, dude. It’s fair like I don’t want you to. I don’t want you to come here and be like, I’m getting short. Change like this is what I tell everybody like.
250 00:37:03.040 ⇒ 00:37:20.259 Uttam Kumaran: we’re not in the market to like be like, oh, we have a great culture and story. And then you. That’s the reason why we can shortchange you. I’ve also been on the other end of that, because and and all that stuff is kind of Bs. It’s true, but, like you know, for me, I I don’t want people to come here and and be like.
251 00:37:20.490 ⇒ 00:37:47.760 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I’m like money is the problem, you know, because that that hurts everything. And so, but they also the the thing is like, we’re not gonna be hiring multiple people for this. So and we want this to be a role that grows in. So for me, you know, I’m gonna take this back and sort of talk to my team, even if it doesn’t work. Now, I think we will have some opportunity this year. Especially even if you’re open part time to even help us on like
252 00:37:47.930 ⇒ 00:37:50.700 Uttam Kumaran: recruiting strategy or building playbook.
253 00:37:50.700 ⇒ 00:37:51.490 Uttam Kumaran: Something like that
254 00:37:51.490 ⇒ 00:37:59.629 Uttam Kumaran: like we could use that. And maybe that’s a way for also for you. Short term to sort of work with us. Understand? Like how we work and the work we do
255 00:37:59.940 ⇒ 00:38:07.929 Uttam Kumaran: for me. Really, frankly, we do need a lot of help just on like, okay, how do we process place? Understand? People handle
256 00:38:08.340 ⇒ 00:38:32.800 Uttam Kumaran: scheduling everything? And I do think that that’s something even possible, more short term. And while we, while we sort of iron out like longer term details. If you’re interested in that, too, like, that’s also the way I typically like to work with everybody is, I’m like, Hey, just come on and spend some time with us and the team, for, like, you know, 10 or so hours a week, and then, just like
257 00:38:33.030 ⇒ 00:38:37.479 Uttam Kumaran: we need some short term help here and here. And then maybe you get a good sense of like.
258 00:38:37.640 ⇒ 00:38:41.850 Uttam Kumaran: If this could be a good place longer term like, actually, I would prefer to do that before even
259 00:38:42.110 ⇒ 00:38:45.950 Uttam Kumaran: so that you get a good sense of like what it’s like, what we’re we’re talking about, you know.
260 00:38:47.040 ⇒ 00:38:51.410 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, I’m definitely open to that, too. And just kind of getting a feel for like
261 00:38:51.530 ⇒ 00:39:03.255 Robert Arbolaez IV: it. It sounds like you guys are kind of starting to ramp up the recruiting efforts, and just kind of seeing where that where that stands and kind of being able to provide just my expertise around like, okay, this is what I’ve seen work for people.
262 00:39:04.070 ⇒ 00:39:09.500 Robert Arbolaez IV: from like an enterprise level and then just sharing that with you. So I’m definitely open to the part time, for sure.
263 00:39:10.580 ⇒ 00:39:17.490 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, this is super helpful. Let me take this back. And yeah, give me like a week or 2 to sort of ball on this we’re just like.
264 00:39:17.490 ⇒ 00:39:17.960 Robert Arbolaez IV: Perfect.
265 00:39:17.960 ⇒ 00:39:21.163 Uttam Kumaran: Plan with stuff. It’s like insane. So let me
266 00:39:22.380 ⇒ 00:39:33.619 Uttam Kumaran: let me know all this down. And yeah, I think if we move forward. I mean one. I would love to introduce you to my partner. And then, yeah, maybe I’ll I’ll think through if we have any short term sort of
267 00:39:33.690 ⇒ 00:40:03.679 Uttam Kumaran: things where I think we we could use some help on an hourly basis. Maybe we can come to some full arrangement there and then you can start just like filling in some gaps and sort of seeing like what it’s like to work with us. And then, yeah, I mean, like, honestly, I don’t know whether right now is the we have a hundred problems. And so for me, it’s like slowly plugging each problem like as we make more money. Recruiting is a big problem. But of course, if we can’t execute on clients and grow sales, that’s
268 00:40:03.900 ⇒ 00:40:23.190 Uttam Kumaran: that’s like we just die. So I’m trying to figure out, yeah, I’m trying to figure out the order of operations, but I don’t. I don’t have. I’m not having any other conversations with people on the recruiting side. So I would love for this to work out whether that’s whether that’s soon or you know. Later this year. I you know I’m not sure.
269 00:40:24.490 ⇒ 00:40:28.019 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay, yeah, for sure. Let me know. Keep me posted. And then
270 00:40:28.840 ⇒ 00:40:34.160 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, even if it’s if it’s just starts off part time. I think that’s beneficial. Because I know, like.
271 00:40:34.310 ⇒ 00:40:36.222 Robert Arbolaez IV: on our remote days,
272 00:40:37.420 ⇒ 00:40:43.729 Robert Arbolaez IV: I can definitely like dual wield things so like being able to help out like online, just
273 00:40:43.850 ⇒ 00:40:46.008 Robert Arbolaez IV: regular day to day. But
274 00:40:46.830 ⇒ 00:40:48.680 Robert Arbolaez IV: yeah, definitely, definitely can do that.
275 00:40:49.430 ⇒ 00:40:50.000 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
276 00:40:50.180 ⇒ 00:40:55.009 Uttam Kumaran: okay, cool. Alright. So let me take I’ll take this back to team, and then I’ll I’ll text you. I’ll
277 00:40:55.340 ⇒ 00:40:56.539 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll let you know what’s next.
278 00:40:57.630 ⇒ 00:40:59.994 Robert Arbolaez IV: For sure. Oh, one quick thing, how many
279 00:41:00.810 ⇒ 00:41:05.400 Robert Arbolaez IV: How many engineers are like in terms, in terms of like data people do you have right now, what is that like overall.
280 00:41:05.400 ⇒ 00:41:09.979 Uttam Kumaran: We have. Like maybe 7 or 8 people.
281 00:41:10.180 ⇒ 00:41:18.989 Uttam Kumaran: The problem is, we’re moving from like part time to more full time. But nobody we have right now is W. 2. Everybody we have on contract.
282 00:41:20.590 ⇒ 00:41:21.450 Uttam Kumaran: So
283 00:41:21.740 ⇒ 00:41:32.950 Uttam Kumaran: like ideally, we’ll probably pay a little bit higher in a rate, but like it keeps a little bit of it, just we. We just don’t have the infrastructure to support that many people on W. 2. But what we do is we basically break.
284 00:41:32.950 ⇒ 00:41:33.290 Robert Arbolaez IV: Talking.
285 00:41:33.290 ⇒ 00:41:41.579 Uttam Kumaran: Bring engineers on like 10 or 20 h on one client, and then, if they’re good, which I sort of can suss out pretty immediately, we can then.
286 00:41:41.580 ⇒ 00:41:42.059 Robert Arbolaez IV: Hold on!
287 00:41:42.060 ⇒ 00:41:42.700 Uttam Kumaran: Full time.
288 00:41:42.700 ⇒ 00:41:43.210 Robert Arbolaez IV: Okay.
289 00:41:43.210 ⇒ 00:41:52.039 Uttam Kumaran: You know, early days we we hired some people who were who were juggling like 2 jobs. And then we’re now moving to people that are like, okay, I want to commit to Brainforge. So we’re.
290 00:41:52.040 ⇒ 00:41:52.470 Robert Arbolaez IV: That’s slow.
291 00:41:52.470 ⇒ 00:42:20.575 Uttam Kumaran: Replacing the part time people with people who are like more full time. Again. I don’t have any restriction on place, so we’ve been able to manage like getting people abroad in Europe and Latin, and the rates that are really really competitive, because I just look for great engineers. However, like there is a there is a ceiling on seniority in a lot of those places. So for the suite for senior people, we do try to look in the Us.
292 00:42:20.990 ⇒ 00:42:30.850 Uttam Kumaran: but yeah, we’re we’re roughly about. Yeah, like 7 or 8 number. That’ll probably grow like, I’ll probably end up bringing on 2 more people within the next, like
293 00:42:31.230 ⇒ 00:42:48.999 Uttam Kumaran: week. On the data analyst side and the analytics engineering side. We’re basically trying to make sure that every client has one full time analyst, and then I’m sort of building up what our analytics engineering requirements are. And then again, we had some part time people but part time is tough because
294 00:42:49.180 ⇒ 00:43:03.800 Uttam Kumaran: and analysis requires people to sort of be online, like when clients are asking questions. And we just had some people drop the ball. So I’m sort of like figuring out, okay, how do I? Actually, build a sustainable team like analytics engineering work? Yeah, you could take tickets on, and sort of do
295 00:43:04.270 ⇒ 00:43:08.924 Uttam Kumaran: a little bit on your own time, but even that is sort of there’s some stuff that’s more urgent.
296 00:43:10.000 ⇒ 00:43:16.499 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I mean, like, I, I think, yeah, over time, we’re gonna try to really get some killers here. And then also, like, I want to incentivize
297 00:43:16.760 ⇒ 00:43:23.440 Uttam Kumaran: the engineering team like, I want people to feel like I want the engineers to feel like, Hey, if the client succeeds like
298 00:43:23.770 ⇒ 00:43:43.210 Uttam Kumaran: not sales doesn’t just win. Or the company doesn’t win. Like, I win, right? So there, we’re gonna think about larger, like, incentive programs based on like tenure, but also based on like. If the client renews, or if the client upsells, how do the engineers get rewarded? And those are things that I don’t think any other consultancy, or, to my knowledge, like, is prioritized.
299 00:43:43.210 ⇒ 00:43:44.060 Robert Arbolaez IV: No.
300 00:43:44.497 ⇒ 00:43:52.380 Uttam Kumaran: And again, I I’m so confident that, like engineers never hear stuff like this from recruiters, from consultancies.
301 00:43:53.050 ⇒ 00:43:57.460 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of just like, come in and get plugged in somewhere, and I’m not.
302 00:43:57.460 ⇒ 00:43:58.070 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah.
303 00:43:58.070 ⇒ 00:44:10.250 Uttam Kumaran: Trying to hire people that are 3, 4, 5 times better, who can handle 2 or 3 clients at a time, but also want to get paid 3 times the money. I’d much rather have that than like 100 or 200 people that are like
304 00:44:10.650 ⇒ 00:44:28.289 Uttam Kumaran: like very slow and like aren’t proactive and don’t have agency right? So like, that’s where we’re we’re going to be headed longer term. So it may not be like a volume game. It may be just like as we get better people in the pipeline as we build a brand, we’re getting people who can handle like 2 or 3 clients that are sort of like rock stars
305 00:44:28.410 ⇒ 00:44:33.920 Uttam Kumaran: like that’s gonna be the real challenge in the recruiting side. I feel like, yeah.
306 00:44:34.180 ⇒ 00:44:41.000 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, no, that that gives me a sense of like, what type of person you’re looking for as well. Especially kind of knowing like you don’t wanna?
307 00:44:41.210 ⇒ 00:44:49.464 Robert Arbolaez IV: Because, like, my next goal is to say, like realistic, where do you want to be with like your engineer team or your analyst team in terms of total number.
308 00:44:50.000 ⇒ 00:44:57.630 Robert Arbolaez IV: but if you’re kind of looking to kind of double up here and there, that gives me a better sense of like the type of person you’re looking for, and the type of work that they’ve done before, too.
309 00:44:58.630 ⇒ 00:45:10.119 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm, yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, I mean, we’re again. It’s like some senior people. But I don’t know. It sort of depends on people. It’s hard to sort of say without meeting them and understand their background. But
310 00:45:10.470 ⇒ 00:45:11.180 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
311 00:45:11.180 ⇒ 00:45:15.280 Robert Arbolaez IV: Yeah, cool.
312 00:45:16.660 ⇒ 00:45:20.170 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, dude. Well, I appreciate the time. And then, yeah, I’ll be in touch for sure.
313 00:45:21.150 ⇒ 00:45:23.990 Robert Arbolaez IV: For sure. Sounds good. Bro. Appreciate it. Enjoy enjoy the wedding, though.
314 00:45:24.480 ⇒ 00:45:26.010 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you. Talk soon.
315 00:45:26.360 ⇒ 00:45:27.500 Robert Arbolaez IV: April. Lettuce.