Meeting Title: Uttam_Ben Date: 2025-02-07 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran, Ben Steinberg
WEBVTT
1 00:05:52.180 ⇒ 00:05:53.240 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! Dude.
2 00:05:59.765 ⇒ 00:06:00.080 Robert Tseng: Okay.
3 00:06:00.960 ⇒ 00:06:01.550 Robert Tseng: Okay.
4 00:06:01.550 ⇒ 00:06:03.410 Uttam Kumaran: Ben Ben is on his way.
5 00:06:03.830 ⇒ 00:06:05.510 Robert Tseng: Okay. Okay. No. Worries.
6 00:06:05.510 ⇒ 00:06:06.310 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry.
7 00:06:11.920 ⇒ 00:06:15.000 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m looking at the spreadsheet with the gummies.
8 00:06:15.000 ⇒ 00:06:17.950 Uttam Kumaran: I’m fairly certain there’s just no cogs for gummies.
9 00:06:18.470 ⇒ 00:06:22.700 Robert Tseng: It’s there are cogs for, like gummy bundles.
10 00:06:23.100 ⇒ 00:06:31.930 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay, then, yeah, we anything marked as is single product is how we roll up the dogs. Yeah.
11 00:06:32.130 ⇒ 00:06:37.600 Uttam Kumaran: So if you know it offhand and can put it in there. Then it’ll stream through
12 00:06:39.700 ⇒ 00:06:41.489 Uttam Kumaran: for the individual gummies.
13 00:07:22.990 ⇒ 00:07:25.750 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool.
14 00:07:25.890 ⇒ 00:07:30.670 Robert Tseng: I love how we can. I? I diagnose this in like like 30 seconds.
15 00:07:31.190 ⇒ 00:07:40.819 Uttam Kumaran: No, I knew it. I just didn’t want to respond and be wrong. I was like, I know, I know we’re missing because I sent them that thing in an update before, but it never got resolved.
16 00:07:41.344 ⇒ 00:07:43.050 Uttam Kumaran: So I was like, okay, just
17 00:07:43.830 ⇒ 00:07:46.159 Uttam Kumaran: just like finishing some stuff here. And then.
18 00:07:46.380 ⇒ 00:07:47.330 Robert Tseng: No worries.
19 00:09:07.590 ⇒ 00:09:09.100 Robert Tseng: Oh, I see.
20 00:09:09.810 ⇒ 00:09:12.239 Robert Tseng: Well, I don’t necessarily see, but.
21 00:11:22.870 ⇒ 00:11:24.320 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, he said. He’s hopping on me.
22 00:12:50.480 ⇒ 00:12:52.750 Ben Steinberg: All right, bad friend, alert. That’s on me.
23 00:12:53.660 ⇒ 00:12:54.960 Uttam Kumaran: My friend.
24 00:12:55.573 ⇒ 00:12:57.186 Ben Steinberg: Sorry about that dude.
25 00:12:57.730 ⇒ 00:12:59.460 Uttam Kumaran: What got your attention today?
26 00:13:00.069 ⇒ 00:13:04.269 Ben Steinberg: I just had like a catch up with the C with our CEO, and
27 00:13:05.160 ⇒ 00:13:09.951 Ben Steinberg: it went over a little bit. We’re just figuring out how to work with some of the athletes. It’s it’s really weird because
28 00:13:10.420 ⇒ 00:13:16.099 Ben Steinberg: they’re so used to like endorsing a product, getting paid directly. And I’m trying to
29 00:13:16.350 ⇒ 00:13:21.299 Ben Steinberg: funnel the money through the fans to then pay the player. So I get users out of it.
30 00:13:21.980 ⇒ 00:13:22.780 Ben Steinberg: So it’s just.
31 00:13:23.126 ⇒ 00:13:23.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Yeah.
32 00:13:23.820 ⇒ 00:13:48.769 Ben Steinberg: Like. I’d rather give fans $25 credits and get ex fans putting money on you than giving you the money. So I have to figure out like some sort of guarantees. But yeah, it’s been cool. It’s like, you know, we’re building things. Some things are shit like our data. Still. But we, we are like, I built like this whole infrastructure of all these like fan pages. And that’s actually been going kinda well, so it’s cool to, you know, to see some traction on the platform.
33 00:13:49.770 ⇒ 00:13:56.596 Ben Steinberg: We’re athletes that are like, you know, making a real decision, figuring out what to do with the fucking product. It’s kind of shit to
34 00:13:57.740 ⇒ 00:14:01.070 Ben Steinberg: we need. You know we need. I’ll turn my camera off. You guys are we need.
35 00:14:01.480 ⇒ 00:14:06.069 Ben Steinberg: We need like, you know, like we need, like, you know, the customer, to get more value. I think so.
36 00:14:06.070 ⇒ 00:14:06.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
37 00:14:06.760 ⇒ 00:14:09.990 Ben Steinberg: Working through that. Yeah, it’s been fun.
38 00:14:10.900 ⇒ 00:14:20.630 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I want to introduce you to Robert Roberts on the call. Robert is my partner at Brainforge, like we we sort of. We’re doing a lot of kind of similar work and sort of
39 00:14:20.960 ⇒ 00:14:42.769 Uttam Kumaran: coming together, we were able to upsell a lot more. So we teamed up, and I mean you know me, but Robert’s also in New York. Price, I think. Also from data. But you know we do. We do a bunch of work on Ecom now, and also a ton of stuff on marketing. So I feel like we all kind of speak the same language in terms of marketing data and stuff like that.
40 00:14:43.130 ⇒ 00:14:43.930 Uttam Kumaran: Boom.
41 00:14:44.482 ⇒ 00:14:53.290 Uttam Kumaran: and then for context, Robert Ben and I worked at flow code. Flow. Code was a QR code startup. Basically, Ben ran all
42 00:14:53.950 ⇒ 00:14:59.879 Uttam Kumaran: like ads and creative. And like we were doing it, we were kind of an agency for a bit. Ben worked at a
43 00:15:00.020 ⇒ 00:15:04.110 Uttam Kumaran: and push with Jesse Pooji. You probably know.
44 00:15:04.300 ⇒ 00:15:06.881 Robert Tseng: Oh, no way. I was an intern.
45 00:15:07.250 ⇒ 00:15:08.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, there it is.
46 00:15:08.070 ⇒ 00:15:08.780 Ben Steinberg: We’re gonna.
47 00:15:08.780 ⇒ 00:15:11.520 Uttam Kumaran: There’s like I knew there was some connection I was forgetting.
48 00:15:12.115 ⇒ 00:15:17.989 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, Ben is like part of Am push. Alumni worked for Jesse directly on another thing.
49 00:15:18.280 ⇒ 00:15:20.160 Uttam Kumaran: has worked in a ton of like.
50 00:15:20.640 ⇒ 00:15:29.979 Uttam Kumaran: basically everything but like sort of if I have a question about running ads digitally at scale. This is the like.
51 00:15:29.980 ⇒ 00:15:31.400 Ben Steinberg: I swear to get a lot of people.
52 00:15:31.400 ⇒ 00:15:38.323 Uttam Kumaran: He’s the oracle like. I don’t know another person that’s like addicted to this as much as Ben is so
53 00:15:38.670 ⇒ 00:15:50.349 Ben Steinberg: A lot of questions that I don’t know any like someone just asked me. They’re like, Hey, if you’re running a $300 budget and like, what would you do? And I was like, I haven’t run Facebook ads in like 2 and a half years. But here’s what I would do we’re all
54 00:15:51.160 ⇒ 00:15:55.228 Ben Steinberg: right. But that’s cool. I didn’t realize, you know, the amperage didn’t have many
55 00:15:56.220 ⇒ 00:16:01.680 Ben Steinberg: interns. I feel like it was like a like they did it for like a little bit. So that’s that’s cool that you were part of that.
56 00:16:02.130 ⇒ 00:16:05.359 Robert Tseng: Yeah, this was like, in 2015, long time ago.
57 00:16:06.040 ⇒ 00:16:10.860 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, yeah, that was like the heyday for that business, or like even right before it. Maybe that’s awesome.
58 00:16:11.390 ⇒ 00:16:12.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
59 00:16:13.040 ⇒ 00:16:19.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So I mean, I think 2 things for this combo, one, Ben’s looking potentially for some data help unless
60 00:16:19.380 ⇒ 00:16:24.420 Uttam Kumaran: unless things have changed or there’s other bigger problems. And then also, we have some, like.
61 00:16:24.590 ⇒ 00:16:36.549 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we’re assisting clients and sort of running better ads, but not really from the like creative side, more on like, how do you structure campaign naming? So you get better utm tracking what are like the best tools to use
62 00:16:36.780 ⇒ 00:16:43.748 Uttam Kumaran: stuff like that? So kind of wanted to bring us together to just chat through like both of those.
63 00:16:44.510 ⇒ 00:16:48.220 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know what’s more. What’s what’s more important to you, Ben? Do you want to talk about.
64 00:16:48.220 ⇒ 00:16:49.740 Ben Steinberg: I’ll give you the I’ll give you the 30 seconds.
65 00:16:49.740 ⇒ 00:16:52.480 Uttam Kumaran: Give me the 30 second on Fan Stake. Give it, give the
66 00:16:53.210 ⇒ 00:16:55.840 Uttam Kumaran: and stake to Robert, and then kind of like where you’re at for data.
67 00:16:56.160 ⇒ 00:16:58.476 Ben Steinberg: Yeah. Well, fans take. If you don’t know is Robert, or is
68 00:16:58.670 ⇒ 00:17:02.819 Robert Tseng: I actually watched Ben’s video with Connor. Was it Connor.
69 00:17:02.820 ⇒ 00:17:06.029 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. It was me. It was me, Ben and Connor. Yeah.
70 00:17:06.030 ⇒ 00:17:09.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I did. I got, I got the deal. Yeah, so cool.
71 00:17:09.609 ⇒ 00:17:10.789 Ben Steinberg: What video was it.
72 00:17:10.790 ⇒ 00:17:13.609 Uttam Kumaran: Remember, we talked remember, we talked like the like a month ago.
73 00:17:13.619 ⇒ 00:17:14.499 Ben Steinberg: Yeah.
74 00:17:14.500 ⇒ 00:17:16.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that we just that was just recorded.
75 00:17:16.930 ⇒ 00:17:22.714 Ben Steinberg: Oh, cool. I was like, oh, no. A video.
76 00:17:23.525 ⇒ 00:17:23.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
77 00:17:23.810 ⇒ 00:17:29.480 Ben Steinberg: So so dude like in terms of our data stuff like, I think the product team was able to like
78 00:17:29.500 ⇒ 00:17:58.259 Ben Steinberg: gets more like the events, actually in post hog. The dashboards are relatively non existent. It’s just sort of like I’m letting it kind of just rock with their team. I like made all my requests. The the best for me would be like, if it was like an overview capabilities deck that I could forward and be like Hey, if you need support with this like, here is a really smart person that could easily do what we need, and they could just like Spark the combo, because the combo hasn’t really been sparked internally yet. And we’re at such a weird stage where it’s like
79 00:17:59.270 ⇒ 00:18:15.469 Ben Steinberg: where it’s like the lack of data that you would we have? You would think it would be a priority, because data is important for running a business, but it’s but it it relative to the other. Some of the other priorities of building a product that like has some traction. It almost isn’t. It’s almost like we’re comfortable.
80 00:18:15.470 ⇒ 00:18:16.170 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
81 00:18:16.170 ⇒ 00:18:35.560 Ben Steinberg: Looking at like the totals and flying a little bit blind, which is frustrating for me. But it’s also like I’m less on the hook with some of the tests and just get to spend some money. Obviously, I want the data. But I think it’ll just kind of take time. But if there’s some capabilities, Deck, that I could just start the conversation with them and have, like a 30 min analytics sync where I talk about it, I feel like that would be the
82 00:18:36.330 ⇒ 00:18:38.680 Ben Steinberg: the shoe, the the shoe, and play.
83 00:18:39.130 ⇒ 00:18:40.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, at least for
84 00:18:40.860 ⇒ 00:18:43.520 Robert Tseng: for that, for us to forward something to you.
85 00:18:43.660 ⇒ 00:18:46.880 Robert Tseng: I mean, we can go the product analytics angle, but sounds like
86 00:18:47.310 ⇒ 00:18:51.049 Robert Tseng: you already. Did the setup and some tracking implementation and reporting.
87 00:18:51.190 ⇒ 00:19:04.900 Robert Tseng: We can kind of keep going in that direction and give you like more scope around that. Or if I mean, since you’re on the marketing side, like we’ve been building performance, marketing, reporting and doing data, unification for marketing teams and stuff. So maybe we go that angle.
88 00:19:04.900 ⇒ 00:19:14.049 Ben Steinberg: Probably be more the latter in terms of what I want. I think like if we can get all that stuff with the events in post hog. So I can see the funnel, analytics, etc.
89 00:19:14.390 ⇒ 00:19:22.989 Ben Steinberg: you know, grouped by a a certain way like, I think, that would make sense were you previously using Utms. Now, we’re mainly using like
90 00:19:23.170 ⇒ 00:19:52.289 Ben Steinberg: direct links. Basically, they just have a hard coded coupon. So it’s just looking at the site traffic for those respective links with that coupon code we have. We have no grouping with any attribution or anything like that. It’s all I’m just looking at, like, how many sign ups did each code get and doing a little mental math? So I think the 2 things would be potentially building like some sort of attribution framework. And then so so it’s not just each coupon code. We could group them by channel. And you know Mega Channel, and whatever
91 00:19:53.620 ⇒ 00:19:54.984 Ben Steinberg: and then
92 00:19:56.930 ⇒ 00:20:13.489 Ben Steinberg: all those. All that insight is I’m venmoing people for deals right? And giving them a link with the coupon code. So some sort of join with the manual spend tracking that we’re doing, you know, and auto ingesting it. And right now our systems are, we have post on. We have aws.
93 00:20:13.490 ⇒ 00:20:34.569 Ben Steinberg: And and you’re using quick site. It feels a little archaic, but I think, like the 2, the like. The 2 things we were like, what would you push for internally, Ben, it’d be probably some attribution system and tie our marketing spend to our efforts. So I could have both funnel analytics of the the drop off, and whatever then I could also see my cost per
94 00:20:34.800 ⇒ 00:20:39.859 Ben Steinberg: free. Staker, that just uses the credit my cost per paying staker for each of these respective
95 00:20:40.060 ⇒ 00:20:43.600 Ben Steinberg: coupon codes which are essentially, you know, line items.
96 00:20:44.540 ⇒ 00:20:57.299 Robert Tseng: Got it. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Attribution reporting and yeah, whether it’s in quick side or not, we basically would just be building the data model in aws, I guess, and then you can push it into wherever you want.
97 00:20:57.630 ⇒ 00:21:18.800 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I mean, I’m I think eventually we’ll build into some real bi tools. But yeah, again, I I don’t. I’m not confident in my, where I’m at with the company. They’re going to go get us more users. Just get people to the site versus like the, you know, perfect reporting. But I I wanna at least be able to go to bat, for you know what what I think we need for marketing to be successful.
98 00:21:19.610 ⇒ 00:21:33.099 Robert Tseng: Got it. I mean, you said you have both paid and free users, I guess. Like is your directive right now, just obviously driving more paid. But like I guess that kind of also speaks to whether or not we care about channel or campaign. We care more about channel slash platform.
99 00:21:33.230 ⇒ 00:21:42.299 Robert Tseng: You know that that would be, I think, because you’re just trying to get as many people to the site or whatever as possible, and it’s less about like getting driving paid conversions.
100 00:21:42.490 ⇒ 00:21:47.589 Robert Tseng: Or if you’re trying to get super campaign specific already, then, and we’re probably trying to evaluate.
101 00:21:47.590 ⇒ 00:22:04.869 Ben Steinberg: Campaign is almost one in the same at this point for our stage. We’re finding fan pages. And we’re saying, Hey, we have a player that we’re partnered with, and he’s your schools on his list. Try and bring him there. Offer your fan. Offer your audience 25 Free Credit. So
102 00:22:05.510 ⇒ 00:22:25.859 Ben Steinberg: I mean, that’s that’s what we’re doing right now. We’re probably gonna experiment a lot. I I suggested the idea of like, donate a penny, and we’ll match a hundred dollars. So at least we get, you know, the account as a paid user, and we get a credit card out the conversion rates gonna tank. But we’re right now we’re right. Now. We’re giving away $25 free credits to new users to just get started and get involved.
103 00:22:26.590 ⇒ 00:22:29.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay. Now, that’s interesting. Who who do you.
104 00:22:29.600 ⇒ 00:22:30.940 Ben Steinberg: It’s not that, you know.
105 00:22:30.940 ⇒ 00:22:35.560 Robert Tseng: To generate all these coupon codes. I mean, it makes sense to not even okay.
106 00:22:35.560 ⇒ 00:22:41.649 Ben Steinberg: I need them to build an internal tool for me. I’m just asking engineer, and I think we’re both starting to get a little frustrated at each other.
107 00:22:42.820 ⇒ 00:22:44.180 Ben Steinberg: All good teammates do.
108 00:22:44.430 ⇒ 00:22:45.120 Robert Tseng: Okay.
109 00:22:45.500 ⇒ 00:22:54.289 Robert Tseng: yeah. I mean, like, as a transition for us like to try. Well, I was gonna ask this. But with Utms, like the team, the marketing team we work with like, I feel like, I mean.
110 00:22:54.820 ⇒ 00:23:05.670 Robert Tseng: I need to give them a system of like how to manage their utms better. Because it’s just like the data that’s coming through is not enough for me to really be able to do campaign level attribution
111 00:23:05.740 ⇒ 00:23:29.239 Robert Tseng: like there’s no product name, so I can’t. I can’t like group into by the products. And then I also don’t have like dates on them. So there’s no time box for like the experiment. So I don’t know which version of the campaign, or which ad set within a campaign like really gets the credit. So I don’t know if you have any like standard like practice, for this is how you should do your campaign like naming like I’d I’d love to.
112 00:23:29.240 ⇒ 00:23:35.880 Ben Steinberg: No, you’re talking to the right person for this. I almost was looking into building like a super simple tool. And then I was like no one’s gonna use this.
113 00:23:36.230 ⇒ 00:23:58.752 Ben Steinberg: It’s probably might be a market for it for just making naming conventions easier for like Super Junior, or like offshore people, because just to really spell it out, because basically what I do is whether it’s through a dynamic parameter. So if I’m running Facebook ads, I’m doing bracket bracket campaign.name. Now I get that whole campaign name in my Utms, and the link doesn’t look so weird.
114 00:23:59.180 ⇒ 00:24:02.900 Ben Steinberg: but it depends on the Channel because I’m working with an influencer I’m trying to have like.
115 00:24:03.080 ⇒ 00:24:25.349 Ben Steinberg: I don’t want to show the Utm source shit, you know, pretty. But for Facebook and paid channels. You could do whatever you want, obviously. And that’s where that’s where, like you have 5 parameters. Right? That you could pull in. Who cares what their names are. It’s just what information do I need? And then organizing it the best way. But I would have long strings of
116 00:24:25.600 ⇒ 00:24:47.230 Ben Steinberg: syntax essentially, for, like Utm campaigns, my Utm campaign wasn’t like Facebook. It was like it was like 16 fucking parameters of Facebook, dash Instagram dash creative to dash like you name it any parameter that I can’t otherwise pull through an Api, because they limited some of that so I would just have like.
117 00:24:47.640 ⇒ 00:24:54.299 Ben Steinberg: I would have also a lot of placeholders, because after you run tests, you’re like, Oh, shit! I wish I could track this component
118 00:24:54.999 ⇒ 00:25:16.540 Ben Steinberg: and you don’t know what the 9th placeholder is going to be. So I put, like, you know, placeholder X placeholder y. And then eventually, I update placeholder y. And actually, this is this is what Utam and I did at flow code, because I had all these parameters that I wanted in my breakdowns. We can’t get it from the Facebook. Api. Whatam could do is take my naming convention and auto delimit it.
119 00:25:16.540 ⇒ 00:25:28.660 Ben Steinberg: So it goes separate column. And now I have all my columns, and now I can make these awesome pivot tables. So that was kind of the the approach of just any variable, and then leaving placeholders, in case I think of something, you know.
120 00:25:30.560 ⇒ 00:25:37.239 Ben Steinberg: because not everything can be pulled dynamically. It requires, like, you know, multiple break, you know, multiple reports, which is annoying.
121 00:25:37.240 ⇒ 00:25:43.539 Uttam Kumaran: So every place you went to Ben since then, did you just make the same spreadsheet? Basically. And you’re just like run the same play.
122 00:25:44.943 ⇒ 00:25:48.470 Ben Steinberg: I I not really. I kinda just like
123 00:25:49.170 ⇒ 00:25:52.619 Ben Steinberg: like I I let me see what I have now for for cause we did run some things.
124 00:25:52.620 ⇒ 00:25:56.020 Uttam Kumaran: Like, does it roughly end up being like the same thing like where there’s like.
125 00:25:57.030 ⇒ 00:25:58.360 Uttam Kumaran: you’re just updating the same.
126 00:25:58.360 ⇒ 00:26:00.839 Ben Steinberg: Changes sometimes so like
127 00:26:01.360 ⇒ 00:26:16.299 Ben Steinberg: and like the targeting, or like the like, for for this one, instead of like creative name, I was putting, like the team name or whatever. But essentially, it’s like, yeah, like, let me see if I have this template, because I’ll just like have all of it. There are definitely people like some of these Twitter people that definitely have like.
128 00:26:16.890 ⇒ 00:26:19.790 Ben Steinberg: Here’s the naming conventions to use.
129 00:26:19.790 ⇒ 00:26:23.710 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, Robert, this is just perfect to have in back pocket, like your name.
130 00:26:23.710 ⇒ 00:26:24.689 Robert Tseng: Exactly what we need.
131 00:26:24.690 ⇒ 00:26:25.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah. Okay.
132 00:26:25.980 ⇒ 00:26:29.280 Robert Tseng: I wanna give this to Carter and be like, Go use this.
133 00:26:29.560 ⇒ 00:26:36.459 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, here, you can use this spreadsheet to scale to like, I don’t know, Ben, like, how much are you running off that spreadsheet.
134 00:26:36.910 ⇒ 00:26:37.720 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
135 00:26:37.880 ⇒ 00:26:40.630 Ben Steinberg: But so so like this is where like
136 00:26:41.070 ⇒ 00:26:57.210 Ben Steinberg: these are hard coded because we were planning to just, I was planning to use paid social as the medium for anything. So I could consolidate around that same thing just like Meta. Just want my source to be Meta. Sometimes I just look at like source traffic, or whatever so like that was important for me. But then all of these
137 00:26:57.470 ⇒ 00:27:03.739 Ben Steinberg: are, you know, long strings of text. And typically this is what it ends up, being like
138 00:27:04.660 ⇒ 00:27:09.278 Ben Steinberg: a name, a creative type, some targeting, like, you know, all things that I’m assigning to it.
139 00:27:10.230 ⇒ 00:27:27.924 Ben Steinberg: so I have to kind of know, like, what are the options for targeting? If you got a little messy, I would just like, I don’t know. Tack down, just be like targeting. It’s, you know, broad look alike, you know, whatever. And then you have those different buckets, because otherwise you can get a little out of control like you have a different name for everything. You have to kind of use like names.
140 00:27:28.350 ⇒ 00:27:40.499 Ben Steinberg: but yeah, I have age, you know, because I can’t pull that age breakdown in addition to a date breakdown in addition to something else and have all those breakdowns at once. But I kind of want them. So this is just a way to kind of
141 00:27:40.790 ⇒ 00:27:43.280 Ben Steinberg: be able to pivot, based off of
142 00:27:43.640 ⇒ 00:27:54.110 Ben Steinberg: targeting 18 to 34. And I can have another ad set. That’s 35 to 60. And now I could break it down in a pivot table by age without looking at this whole long string. So this is kind of my system.
143 00:27:54.960 ⇒ 00:27:57.289 Robert Tseng: This wouldn’t work for Google. Right? This is just Meta.
144 00:27:57.450 ⇒ 00:28:09.950 Ben Steinberg: This is just Meta. But like Google, it totally could work because they also have dynamic. Yeah, I would do it the same way in Google like it. I think it’s a maybe a double bracket instead of underscore. It’s a dot, but
145 00:28:10.310 ⇒ 00:28:12.689 Ben Steinberg: it would. And it would also just be different. It would be like.
146 00:28:13.200 ⇒ 00:28:16.599 Ben Steinberg: what’s the ad group? What’s the keyword like theme?
147 00:28:17.790 ⇒ 00:28:23.689 Ben Steinberg: It would. You know, it’s it’s just. It’s not creative type or part like it would just be different things. But
148 00:28:24.231 ⇒ 00:28:31.200 Ben Steinberg: yeah, you could still do like any of the, you know, if you go through, if you’re like, if you’re like, hey? What should I like? What should be in it for Google?
149 00:28:31.670 ⇒ 00:28:47.430 Ben Steinberg: I would recommend just like, go through, set up a shell campaign, and just anything that’s like listed on there that you’re choosing might as well be comprehensive. Because once you do the initial upfront work and you have a couple of things you can copy and paste most of them. You’re just duplicating campaigns and changing a couple of words. And then.
150 00:28:47.430 ⇒ 00:28:49.220 Uttam Kumaran: Basically what I said. I’m like
151 00:28:49.420 ⇒ 00:28:54.480 Uttam Kumaran: all they just should be running. They should just be duping campaigns, changing the
152 00:28:54.940 ⇒ 00:28:58.789 Uttam Kumaran: changing one thing and then running it again like making an adjustment.
153 00:28:59.040 ⇒ 00:29:05.440 Uttam Kumaran: They’re they’re they’re not duplicating campaigns, Ben. They’re running the same campaign, making changes. And so like.
154 00:29:05.440 ⇒ 00:29:07.399 Ben Steinberg: Oh, don’t do that! That’s really bad.
155 00:29:07.400 ⇒ 00:29:08.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah.
156 00:29:08.740 ⇒ 00:29:10.260 Ben Steinberg: That’s like that’s like a red flag. No.
157 00:29:10.260 ⇒ 00:29:11.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
158 00:29:12.237 ⇒ 00:29:14.810 Ben Steinberg: Because it screws up the history. And then you’re like.
159 00:29:14.810 ⇒ 00:29:15.140 Uttam Kumaran: Around.
160 00:29:15.140 ⇒ 00:29:16.889 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we have no history.
161 00:29:17.240 ⇒ 00:29:17.860 Uttam Kumaran: I know. Bro.
162 00:29:17.860 ⇒ 00:29:19.730 Ben Steinberg: Do you want to like compile.
163 00:29:19.730 ⇒ 00:29:22.109 Uttam Kumaran: They’re ramping to like 2 million a month
164 00:29:22.270 ⇒ 00:29:29.919 Uttam Kumaran: and spend. And they are. They’re just running the same campaigns. So we have no time based attribution.
165 00:29:30.120 ⇒ 00:29:38.310 Ben Steinberg: Dude. I would I would put it at the equivalent of like doing too many changes is like just running a marathon, and you’re just shooting yourself in the foot with a gun every like mile. You’re like.
166 00:29:38.764 ⇒ 00:29:39.219 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
167 00:29:39.220 ⇒ 00:29:42.910 Ben Steinberg: Like. Oh, maybe I should. Maybe I should change the swing of my arms. Boom!
168 00:29:42.910 ⇒ 00:29:44.019 Robert Tseng: I’m gonna say that to them.
169 00:29:44.020 ⇒ 00:29:56.323 Ben Steinberg: Maybe I should breathe through my mouth instead of my nose. It’s like whether you’re breathing through your nose, your mouth, or whatever. Once you start the Marathon just fucking. Keep running, and it’ll get better each month, like maybe that’s the best analogy, because it probably gets harder. But
170 00:29:57.020 ⇒ 00:30:25.650 Ben Steinberg: there is something to like. Set it and forget it and be really intentional. How you set it. And I’m not saying you can’t pause ads like it depends on the channel, you can make changes. But if you’re making too many changes, especially like big changes to like creative. So if you’re running static images, and you just and Facebook starts to, you know, find the static image people. The people who respond to static images on Facebook are super different than the people who respond to reels like, it’s just a different type of person. There are different pockets of this, you know, make believe algorithm. But
171 00:30:26.310 ⇒ 00:30:35.679 Ben Steinberg: changing too much, too much is can be very detrimental. It’s way better to just like start a clean campaign with clean history. And then so it compiles around like the right person.
172 00:30:37.630 ⇒ 00:30:56.779 Ben Steinberg: it has the right signals to kind of build off of. So it’s kind of a case by case basis, because there are like some things that you could do, or if you just launched a campaign. And it’s like the next day. And you’re like, all right, like it’s been one day. That’s fine to kind of wipe some of that history. But if you have a campaign that’s like I’ve I just the reason why I like opinionated on it is because I’ve seen some big campaigns
173 00:30:56.780 ⇒ 00:31:08.790 Ben Steinberg: get changed, and then you can’t just go back to the performance it had last week. And you’re like, Oh, we’ll just revert it. It’s like, well, no, you know it’s like once you once you have that good performance, it’s like, just don’t even fucking. Touch it.
174 00:31:09.520 ⇒ 00:31:11.859 Ben Steinberg: Or you know, you wanna have
175 00:31:12.010 ⇒ 00:31:20.290 Ben Steinberg: independent environment. So if you’re like, if you have broad match on the keyword, and then you change it to exact match
176 00:31:20.420 ⇒ 00:31:24.540 Ben Steinberg: versus having a separate campaign started exact match. That’s like a confounding variable.
177 00:31:24.890 ⇒ 00:31:25.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
178 00:31:26.293 ⇒ 00:31:30.100 Ben Steinberg: But yeah, you should be able to track all this stuff with naming conventions on Google, too.
179 00:31:30.870 ⇒ 00:31:35.839 Robert Tseng: Okay, would you mind sharing that like some version of that template that I can just rework.
180 00:31:35.840 ⇒ 00:31:39.850 Ben Steinberg: I don’t think I have one to be honest, of course, like, would I? Just, I’m not running Google right now.
181 00:31:39.850 ⇒ 00:31:42.789 Uttam Kumaran: Can you? Can you send something without any of your data?
182 00:31:43.830 ⇒ 00:31:44.690 Uttam Kumaran: Ben?
183 00:31:44.940 ⇒ 00:31:47.790 Ben Steinberg: I’ll send this. I’ll share this sheet right now, you know.
184 00:31:47.790 ⇒ 00:31:48.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
185 00:31:48.160 ⇒ 00:31:48.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, that’s it.
186 00:31:48.830 ⇒ 00:31:53.080 Robert Tseng: Oh, I can. I can tweak it, make a tab for Google and give it to the.
187 00:31:53.080 ⇒ 00:31:54.730 Ben Steinberg: The copy, and do whatever you want with it.
188 00:31:54.730 ⇒ 00:31:58.230 Robert Tseng: Guys, and I’ll be like dude. Just make something like this like.
189 00:31:58.230 ⇒ 00:31:59.319 Ben Steinberg: What’s your name?
190 00:32:01.120 ⇒ 00:32:02.009 Ben Steinberg: Robert?
191 00:32:02.010 ⇒ 00:32:08.430 Uttam Kumaran: And then, dude, we gotta bring you in as like a E-com ad spend expert and get you some money to help us with some of these clients. Because.
192 00:32:09.758 ⇒ 00:32:12.620 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, like, this is something that like
193 00:32:13.000 ⇒ 00:32:15.699 Uttam Kumaran: from a data side, I have a different perspective.
194 00:32:16.570 ⇒ 00:32:26.100 Uttam Kumaran: And I would like to do that I’ve never touched like Facebook ads, ui. But I like, I’m like 90% there, like, I could probably sketch what it looks like based on working with Facebook ads for this long, but
195 00:32:28.320 ⇒ 00:32:28.900 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I mean.
196 00:32:28.900 ⇒ 00:32:34.009 Uttam Kumaran: We have this conversation every time with most, with a lot of clients like every client, is dealing with the same problem.
197 00:32:34.010 ⇒ 00:32:40.869 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, dude. And like that, that was like the role that I had at North Beam was like the last 3 months. But it was still like.
198 00:32:41.180 ⇒ 00:32:49.120 Ben Steinberg: we have all this data. We don’t know how to use it. And it’s like, Well, here’s the data you should be looking at. There’s 7 attribution window, you know. So it’s like you can’t look at all.
199 00:32:49.584 ⇒ 00:33:11.849 Ben Steinberg: Here’s the stuff to look at every day. Here’s stuff to look at weekly. Here’s this kind of decision making process and flow, and it’s the combination of like a north team was way more one to one conversations. But it was we were starting to build out like sops and product marketing type stuff. So they could, you know better understand how to do it. But specifically with Facebook and Google, it’s like, if you get the right data set.
200 00:33:11.890 ⇒ 00:33:36.919 Ben Steinberg: you can kind of conjure up a couple of pivot tables that you just want to update. And that’s, you know, the bulk of what you need. And sometimes it’s multiple data pulls like, I don’t know. If you remember, like I, we did had a different table for the Geo breakdown, and then we had a separate table for you know that the creative based on the campaign name. So it was like 2 different Api pulls, and to 2 different kind of distinct dashboards. But once you have, that
201 00:33:37.200 ⇒ 00:33:38.420 Ben Steinberg: doesn’t change
202 00:33:39.860 ⇒ 00:33:45.000 Ben Steinberg: and it’s all about like how how brands want to get their insights and like what insights you can sell them on. Almost. It’s like
203 00:33:45.130 ⇒ 00:33:56.249 Ben Steinberg: a lot of people don’t look at like their platform spend distribution. They don’t look at their age and gender spend distribution, and there’s such rich insights there. That could really like
204 00:33:56.530 ⇒ 00:34:15.260 Ben Steinberg: change a business. If you know that that’s like that’s like when people are like Ben, most of my job is creative strategy, not like the technical stuff they’re like, how do you come up with these ideas? I’m like, I just look at. You know, you guys think that you’re talking to like some person in your head. And it’s like, it’s 90% men, 65 plus most brands don’t know that.
205 00:34:15.843 ⇒ 00:34:22.900 Ben Steinberg: They don’t know who their real audience is. So stuff like that. Yeah, I shared that sheet over with you. So you should have it in your email.
206 00:34:23.520 ⇒ 00:34:24.230 Robert Tseng: Okay.
207 00:34:24.370 ⇒ 00:34:25.190 Robert Tseng: Thanks.
208 00:34:25.480 ⇒ 00:34:31.703 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, of course I’d be happy to do. I’m happy to help. However, I can
209 00:34:32.050 ⇒ 00:34:42.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah dude. I’ll I’ll tell you. I mean, I think, like we wanna we wanna build some of these assets and then make it easier. Because I I mean dude, I just call. I just phone a friend as much as possible. But
210 00:34:42.860 ⇒ 00:34:48.210 Uttam Kumaran: I think like there could be something more formal. And then, yeah, in terms of the other tool, like.
211 00:34:48.469 ⇒ 00:34:57.042 Uttam Kumaran: let us know. Let us know what what you think the play is. I mean, maybe, Robert, I’ll let you think maybe we can pitch corral, or if there’s any smaller
212 00:34:57.670 ⇒ 00:35:00.669 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, we try to hit something that’s like the actual pain point.
213 00:35:01.320 ⇒ 00:35:04.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think, for where they’re at corral would be great.
214 00:35:04.530 ⇒ 00:35:05.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
215 00:35:05.680 ⇒ 00:35:06.649 Ben Steinberg: Brand, is it.
216 00:35:08.047 ⇒ 00:35:16.669 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just like it’s this tool called corral data. It’s just like a really cheap sort of version of like what we would do at a in a massive way.
217 00:35:16.790 ⇒ 00:35:21.559 Uttam Kumaran: except it’s just like kind of a little bit limited. But it’s not bad corral data.
218 00:35:22.280 ⇒ 00:35:25.150 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, I see him interesting.
219 00:35:28.430 ⇒ 00:35:48.690 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, it’s like, you know, I have these calls with you, Dude. And I’m like, fuck. Is there a whole giant business here, like there is. You’re so the bar is so low for some of these e-com guys. And it’s just like getting the like, it’s just building on top of Facebook, essentially. And a lot of people have tried to do it. And I’ve been really successful, like, motion is like the creative analytics hub.
220 00:35:48.810 ⇒ 00:35:50.830 Ben Steinberg: And I think that like.
221 00:35:51.100 ⇒ 00:36:05.078 Ben Steinberg: yeah, I think there’s so much that pie can expand and can be eaten into honestly, like a little bit of a different angle, just like how to use naming conventions. It feels so obvious. But you know the bar is really low for a lot of these.
222 00:36:05.810 ⇒ 00:36:08.900 Ben Steinberg: you know, north beam caliber like Ecom clients.
223 00:36:09.240 ⇒ 00:36:11.719 Ben Steinberg: They’re all spending a couple KA month, too, which is crazy.
224 00:36:14.290 ⇒ 00:36:16.919 Ben Steinberg: Yeah, yeah, keep me in the loop. Let me know how I get involved. I’m happy.
225 00:36:16.920 ⇒ 00:36:17.750 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s cool.
226 00:36:18.420 ⇒ 00:36:23.550 Ben Steinberg: Then shoot me over anything for the fan stake side of things if there’s like any.
227 00:36:23.800 ⇒ 00:36:30.980 Ben Steinberg: And you know again, it’s not like urgent or anything, because I’m not so confident in my ability to sell it internally. But I’d like to start the conversation, and I think there is.
228 00:36:32.940 ⇒ 00:36:33.950 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, perfect.
229 00:36:33.950 ⇒ 00:36:35.219 Robert Tseng: Heather, and said something to you.
230 00:36:36.646 ⇒ 00:36:37.340 Uttam Kumaran: Delete me.
231 00:36:39.550 ⇒ 00:36:41.890 Robert Tseng: Your Tom’s getting ready to travel, so.
232 00:36:42.270 ⇒ 00:36:43.196 Ben Steinberg: Alright sweet.
233 00:36:44.010 ⇒ 00:36:49.489 Ben Steinberg: So, Tom, text me. If you want me. If if you got a weekend for me to come out, I’m I’m gonna be catching some flights this spring.
234 00:36:49.690 ⇒ 00:37:02.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. And then, yeah, I mean, you and you and Robert both are in New York. But I’ll probably try to come to New York at some point next few months, and then I know you’re traveling. We were thinking about looking up. So yeah, we’ll do something. I’ll text you all. We’ll send something over like next week, and then see what happens.
235 00:37:03.380 ⇒ 00:37:05.068 Ben Steinberg: Don’t rule out Mexico.
236 00:37:05.920 ⇒ 00:37:07.269 Uttam Kumaran: I know. No, I’m thinking about.
237 00:37:09.034 ⇒ 00:37:13.479 Uttam Kumaran: If I have any discretionary income. Yeah, I’ll consider it.
238 00:37:14.140 ⇒ 00:37:16.540 Ben Steinberg: Catch you guys on the flop.
239 00:37:17.310 ⇒ 00:37:18.439 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, make sense.
240 00:37:18.440 ⇒ 00:37:19.010 Robert Tseng: Right.
241 00:37:19.190 ⇒ 00:37:20.080 Robert Tseng: Thanks. Ben.