Meeting Title: Uttam_Corey Date: 2025-01-16 Meeting participants: Corey Daugherty, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:09.160 ⇒ 00:00:10.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yo!
2 00:00:15.980 ⇒ 00:00:16.920 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
3 00:00:18.580 ⇒ 00:00:20.390 Corey Daugherty: Blue Tom? What up, baby.
4 00:00:20.390 ⇒ 00:00:24.220 Uttam Kumaran: My God, give me one second! I’m just leaving this coffee shop.
5 00:00:24.940 ⇒ 00:00:25.910 Uttam Kumaran: Do your thing.
6 00:00:25.910 ⇒ 00:00:27.769 Uttam Kumaran: How are you good to see you.
7 00:00:28.670 ⇒ 00:00:31.069 Corey Daugherty: Life is good, man. Life is good.
8 00:00:31.070 ⇒ 00:00:33.909 Uttam Kumaran: Well congrats on a on a next step.
9 00:00:34.040 ⇒ 00:00:34.970 Corey Daugherty: Yeah. No.
10 00:00:35.300 ⇒ 00:00:41.569 Uttam Kumaran: You feel like you’re like getting. You’re being reborn. You feel like you lost a child, or what’s the.
11 00:00:41.740 ⇒ 00:00:47.320 Corey Daugherty: No, it’s it’s been. It’s a honestly pretty anticlimactic like
12 00:00:47.900 ⇒ 00:00:51.530 Corey Daugherty: I was to have this kind of feeling for
13 00:00:52.310 ⇒ 00:01:01.749 Corey Daugherty: last like 5 months or so so it’s just been kind of building pretty gradually, and was able to think through it in a number of different ways, and
14 00:01:02.450 ⇒ 00:01:03.180 Corey Daugherty: like
15 00:01:03.370 ⇒ 00:01:13.919 Corey Daugherty: handled it pretty, you know, transparently, nothing too crazy. And yeah, I yeah, honestly, it’s it’s all. It’s all good. It’s just
16 00:01:14.110 ⇒ 00:01:20.650 Corey Daugherty: a hundred percent the right time to make the move. So it’s it’s been fun. Kind of jumping in and
17 00:01:20.770 ⇒ 00:01:22.499 Corey Daugherty: exploring what could be next. But.
18 00:01:22.500 ⇒ 00:01:25.708 Uttam Kumaran: That’s good dude. You don’t want it to be climactic. Yeah.
19 00:01:26.000 ⇒ 00:01:30.470 Corey Daugherty: Exactly just this. It’s all good good to see your face, man.
20 00:01:30.750 ⇒ 00:01:31.030 Corey Daugherty: Dude!
21 00:01:32.340 ⇒ 00:01:34.890 Corey Daugherty: Where? Where are you at? Right now?
22 00:01:35.040 ⇒ 00:01:36.229 Uttam Kumaran: I’m in Austin.
23 00:01:36.230 ⇒ 00:01:37.100 Corey Daugherty: Okay. Cool.
24 00:01:37.400 ⇒ 00:01:41.691 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is the best place dude, I mean, I think,
25 00:01:42.300 ⇒ 00:01:46.280 Uttam Kumaran: work wise, like, I feel still really motivated so.
26 00:01:46.440 ⇒ 00:01:52.130 Uttam Kumaran: but like having a life here is like very calm, and like people here are very chill.
27 00:01:52.280 ⇒ 00:01:54.269 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s been
28 00:01:54.580 ⇒ 00:02:04.730 Uttam Kumaran: really nice thing here, like, it’s kind of crazy. I’m it’s it’s like coming up on like 3 years almost, which is crazy. And it’s coming up on a like.
29 00:02:05.340 ⇒ 00:02:10.320 Uttam Kumaran: it’s been yeah. It’s coming on 5 years since I joint foca.
30 00:02:11.039 ⇒ 00:02:14.269 Uttam Kumaran: which is crazy. So that was like 2020,
31 00:02:14.890 ⇒ 00:02:18.859 Uttam Kumaran: like March or April like when we went to Yellowstone.
32 00:02:18.860 ⇒ 00:02:22.950 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, yeah, wild. So.
33 00:02:22.950 ⇒ 00:02:23.670 Uttam Kumaran: Insane.
34 00:02:23.670 ⇒ 00:02:28.569 Corey Daugherty: But the the latest news in Austin is that the the rent is going down.
35 00:02:28.570 ⇒ 00:02:37.130 Uttam Kumaran: Bro going down. It’s so down. It’s yeah. It’s already so down. And it’s continuing to go way further. I mean.
36 00:02:37.500 ⇒ 00:02:45.490 Uttam Kumaran: like my my experiences with rent are like, I have a lot of friends in San Francisco, and then, of course, in New York, and this could be
37 00:02:45.810 ⇒ 00:02:55.080 Uttam Kumaran: couldn’t be more opposite than those situations. There they build incredibly fast. All the buildings are like really like kind of like
38 00:02:55.240 ⇒ 00:03:00.670 Uttam Kumaran: mid luxury, or like luxury, even like the cheap, even like the average building, is like pretty nice
39 00:03:01.176 ⇒ 00:03:05.440 Uttam Kumaran: like on the high end. There the buildings are like kind of like 5 eye buildings.
40 00:03:05.580 ⇒ 00:03:10.090 Uttam Kumaran: but even on the low end. They’re not as bad as like some of the stuff in New York, like.
41 00:03:10.090 ⇒ 00:03:10.650 Corey Daugherty: Of course.
42 00:03:10.650 ⇒ 00:03:20.910 Uttam Kumaran: They’re pretty good, and you can get like in the city, or like, probably with, let’s say you’re staying within 10 min of downtown. You can get a 1 bedroom for like 1,200,
43 00:03:21.780 ⇒ 00:03:26.709 Uttam Kumaran: 1,300, and then if you go like 20 min out.
44 00:03:27.040 ⇒ 00:03:29.150 Uttam Kumaran: you can get it like sub one k.
45 00:03:29.780 ⇒ 00:03:30.550 Corey Daugherty: Damn!
46 00:03:31.000 ⇒ 00:03:45.259 Uttam Kumaran: And still, even people here like still get roommates and stuff. But it’s and cost of living is different. But of course I think the opportunities for a lot of money are also way limited here, like, I think there is some tech. But
47 00:03:45.590 ⇒ 00:03:47.869 Uttam Kumaran: I think the conversation about how
48 00:03:48.050 ⇒ 00:03:50.100 Uttam Kumaran: much tech there is in Austin.
49 00:03:50.370 ⇒ 00:03:52.249 Uttam Kumaran: or business is like kind of like
50 00:03:52.850 ⇒ 00:03:55.540 Uttam Kumaran: Od like it’s not nearly as much as
51 00:03:55.830 ⇒ 00:03:58.969 Uttam Kumaran: New York, like the ratio of rent is not the ratio.
52 00:03:59.180 ⇒ 00:04:01.390 Uttam Kumaran: How much actual business is going on here.
53 00:04:02.100 ⇒ 00:04:02.570 Uttam Kumaran: There.
54 00:04:02.570 ⇒ 00:04:07.769 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a lot of. There’s a lot of big companies and a lot of established companies. There’s some startups, but
55 00:04:08.590 ⇒ 00:04:12.449 Uttam Kumaran: it’s definitely not like New York in terms of business stuff.
56 00:04:12.450 ⇒ 00:04:17.450 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, no, I feel you when I was there. I’m i i liked Austin. It’s.
57 00:04:17.450 ⇒ 00:04:18.050 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
58 00:04:19.800 ⇒ 00:04:20.969 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, not not.
59 00:04:20.970 ⇒ 00:04:22.650 Uttam Kumaran: What did you? What did you end up doing.
60 00:04:25.560 ⇒ 00:04:26.750 Uttam Kumaran: We.
61 00:04:27.090 ⇒ 00:04:31.399 Corey Daugherty: We did a round of golf at my at my buddy’s, where he works.
62 00:04:31.400 ⇒ 00:04:31.990 Corey Daugherty: Okay?
63 00:04:32.302 ⇒ 00:04:36.530 Corey Daugherty: Which is the where he used to work. There it was the fuck
64 00:04:36.930 ⇒ 00:04:45.360 Corey Daugherty: it was. It was the discovery land property, but in in Austin, so that you, the the spot that we went to for Tim’s in Yellowstone.
65 00:04:45.360 ⇒ 00:04:46.520 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
66 00:04:46.520 ⇒ 00:04:48.480 Uttam Kumaran: Same ownership group. Okay?
67 00:04:48.480 ⇒ 00:04:49.010 Uttam Kumaran: Okay?
68 00:04:50.510 ⇒ 00:04:54.289 Corey Daugherty: So it was epic like, imagine doing the shit that we did on the.
69 00:04:54.290 ⇒ 00:04:54.760 Uttam Kumaran: No.
70 00:04:54.760 ⇒ 00:04:56.349 Corey Daugherty: Get it out of fucking.
71 00:04:56.750 ⇒ 00:04:58.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, in a in a golf park? Yeah.
72 00:04:58.300 ⇒ 00:05:07.259 Corey Daugherty: No one. No one’s like dude. Like every 3 holes. There was a shack that had a full bar service.
73 00:05:07.790 ⇒ 00:05:11.499 Corey Daugherty: and like steaks, and it was, it was insane, and he.
74 00:05:11.500 ⇒ 00:05:14.510 Uttam Kumaran: Here, and here they go. It’s like the size
75 00:05:14.610 ⇒ 00:05:21.440 Uttam Kumaran: of everything here is like on a different level, like everything here is too big and sometimes like.
76 00:05:21.610 ⇒ 00:05:22.360 Uttam Kumaran: if that’s.
77 00:05:22.360 ⇒ 00:05:30.480 Corey Daugherty: If that’s all we did the whole weekend, it would have been a success, because it’s like it was like kind of out of this world while you’re doing it. You’re like
78 00:05:30.920 ⇒ 00:05:39.529 Corey Daugherty: people would pay like tens of thousands of dollars for this cause. It’s just so next level, like like we’re on a mountain all by ourselves, like
79 00:05:41.350 ⇒ 00:05:42.370 Corey Daugherty: But
80 00:05:42.830 ⇒ 00:05:57.762 Corey Daugherty: we went to mothership. We went to mothership. We we had a pool in the back in the backyard of our airbnb. So we we just like did like a snap a tournament. One day. Out we did we had the
81 00:05:58.480 ⇒ 00:06:01.389 Corey Daugherty: hibachi guy come to the to the house.
82 00:06:01.390 ⇒ 00:06:09.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s a big thing. Here. My friend just had a surprise birthday, and his girlfriend got him back, and then they like sake in your mouth.
83 00:06:09.220 ⇒ 00:06:10.680 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, so classic.
84 00:06:11.610 ⇒ 00:06:13.290 Corey Daugherty: So we had a good time. We went out.
85 00:06:14.194 ⇒ 00:06:17.429 Corey Daugherty: Hit a few bars. But yeah, nothing crazy.
86 00:06:18.130 ⇒ 00:06:24.289 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, nothing crazy. But yeah, man so what? Give me the update on your on your end? You’re you’re out here just
87 00:06:24.600 ⇒ 00:06:27.100 Corey Daugherty: brain forge. What? What? Tell me about it?
88 00:06:27.530 ⇒ 00:06:36.919 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So I. So I went to this company after flow code called Prequel. I was basically leading product there. We built the 1st product.
89 00:06:37.060 ⇒ 00:06:39.380 Uttam Kumaran: and then I don’t know. I just felt like
90 00:06:39.660 ⇒ 00:06:44.069 Uttam Kumaran: looking at sort of how they were. The 2 people were leading the company, and sort of
91 00:06:44.190 ⇒ 00:06:58.410 Uttam Kumaran: how stuff was going. I didn’t see at the current trajectory. I didn’t see how that would become such a huge thing, and I was spending so much fucking time that I gave them a bunch of feedback, and then they didn’t like the feedback. And I was like.
92 00:06:59.120 ⇒ 00:07:06.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, there’s nothing to like here. You either you take you take the feedback or not. They got really, they actually got very mad at me. It was kind of like
93 00:07:06.450 ⇒ 00:07:08.950 Uttam Kumaran: not it just became toxic immediately.
94 00:07:10.380 ⇒ 00:07:13.129 Uttam Kumaran: So long story short, when I dipped out of there
95 00:07:13.410 ⇒ 00:07:21.419 Uttam Kumaran: sort of was like, that was kind of a shock moment because I didn’t think I was gonna be leaving there anytime soon, and then I had to kind of decide what to do. So
96 00:07:21.870 ⇒ 00:07:25.250 Uttam Kumaran: at that point I was like, I don’t think I can do another startup.
97 00:07:25.690 ⇒ 00:07:28.890 Uttam Kumaran: But then I was like, Can I go to like a bigger company.
98 00:07:29.020 ⇒ 00:07:32.729 Uttam Kumaran: maybe. And then I had like enough money saved where basic. I was like.
99 00:07:34.120 ⇒ 00:07:43.559 Uttam Kumaran: okay, let me see if I can spend 3 months and like find something to do on my own. I’ll kind of give. Put a cap on like 3 months like just like
100 00:07:43.720 ⇒ 00:07:47.179 Uttam Kumaran: burn through the cash and just call everybody I know and sort of.
101 00:07:47.390 ⇒ 00:07:53.229 Uttam Kumaran: I sort of landed on starting this consultancy around data.
102 00:07:53.350 ⇒ 00:08:03.129 Uttam Kumaran: So basically, the whole thing started around doing a lot of the work that I did as an engineer and then sort of moving my way up to doing more strategy stuff, like basically all the stuff I did
103 00:08:03.290 ⇒ 00:08:05.959 Uttam Kumaran: at flow code by doing it like
104 00:08:06.100 ⇒ 00:08:12.219 Uttam Kumaran: fractionally for people. So I got like our 1st client in July of 2023.
105 00:08:12.340 ⇒ 00:08:17.390 Uttam Kumaran: But our next client, through like probably later that year.
106 00:08:17.690 ⇒ 00:08:24.409 Uttam Kumaran: and then maybe like, and then just slowly grew, and then I hired our 1st person part time like that December.
107 00:08:24.590 ⇒ 00:08:27.090 Uttam Kumaran: and then, probably like
108 00:08:27.430 ⇒ 00:08:36.800 Uttam Kumaran: one person, came on like every 2 to 3 months after that, and then the last 6 months things are have grown a lot more.
109 00:08:37.020 ⇒ 00:08:43.648 Uttam Kumaran: So we the the company, started just me doing remote, more word of mouth. So I just would get clients
110 00:08:44.610 ⇒ 00:08:55.459 Uttam Kumaran: just through connections or people would be like, Oh, I know someone that’s doing data. They would pass them to me, and we’d evaluate, but it was like pure hustle, like I had nothing, and I haven’t taken any money so
111 00:08:55.630 ⇒ 00:08:59.988 Uttam Kumaran: like a lot of favors like a lot of just like figuring stuff out.
112 00:09:00.990 ⇒ 00:09:18.909 Uttam Kumaran: which I’m very, very thankful, like New York really helped a lot of like the networking that got me this far, and then in the last like. And then around like February of last year, I started doing a lot of started doing a lot of stuff with like AI. So we started using AI a lot of the business to automate like a big part of the business. And then I realized that
113 00:09:19.120 ⇒ 00:09:25.689 Uttam Kumaran: there’s actually not a lot of like AI consultancies as well. So we started selling. AI related consulting services too.
114 00:09:25.850 ⇒ 00:09:26.170 Corey Daugherty: Hmm.
115 00:09:26.170 ⇒ 00:09:30.170 Uttam Kumaran: And then sort of at that point things started to grow. So
116 00:09:30.735 ⇒ 00:09:35.790 Uttam Kumaran: and this month in particular has been quite enormous. But right now we’re about 12 people.
117 00:09:36.854 ⇒ 00:09:42.580 Uttam Kumaran: There’s like, yeah. There’s a couple of people here
118 00:09:42.690 ⇒ 00:09:51.190 Uttam Kumaran: in the Us. And there’s a couple people sort of like scattered in a bunch of places. It’s like a mix of part time and full time.
119 00:09:52.410 ⇒ 00:10:11.639 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, it’s taken every single like waking minute of my life to like make this like a reality. I it wasn’t that bad when I started the company, actually. But I didn’t. But like, you know, you can go and become like a consultant in a sort of like balance, like 2 or 3 clients, and you can make like bread like you can make
120 00:10:11.840 ⇒ 00:10:13.970 Uttam Kumaran: 1015, 20 KA month.
121 00:10:14.130 ⇒ 00:10:27.509 Uttam Kumaran: but like nothing in your life changes because you’re you have to work. It’s like having 3 fucking bosses, and they all suck so like you kind of a lot of people start that they’ll quit their job and be like, Oh, I want to get into consulting.
122 00:10:27.630 ⇒ 00:10:49.459 Uttam Kumaran: and I don’t know if you may know something we may not. I started when I started the company I met a slew of these people who became my friends. But people typically turn out of this sort of business because it’s extremely hard to balance. Multiple clients. Keep everyone happy. And consulting is a game of like finding the next client. So you so to to be a 1 person shop where you like, sell, fulfill.
123 00:10:49.650 ⇒ 00:10:51.090 Uttam Kumaran: and then renew.
124 00:10:51.310 ⇒ 00:10:59.146 Uttam Kumaran: and like do that all every day. It’s extremely hard. So for me, I always was like this has to become way bigger than me.
125 00:10:59.860 ⇒ 00:11:01.460 Uttam Kumaran: so I never saw like
126 00:11:01.800 ⇒ 00:11:07.990 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I was. I could make 1520 K. But all the money went back to the business like as soon as I could hire I did
127 00:11:08.371 ⇒ 00:11:12.300 Uttam Kumaran: and I sort of started pushing work off of my plate onto other people’s plate
128 00:11:13.650 ⇒ 00:11:17.610 Uttam Kumaran: and then slowly, like we grew. So I got some more clients
129 00:11:17.890 ⇒ 00:11:29.149 Uttam Kumaran: just like climbed up and like kind of puts, just like put things together. It’s taken a lot of like my savings to cover like months and stuff like that. But this month in particular
130 00:11:29.410 ⇒ 00:11:34.062 Uttam Kumaran: has been really really good. Probably the best month we’ve ever had.
131 00:11:34.610 ⇒ 00:11:36.820 Uttam Kumaran: but it’s yeah. It’s been a slog.
132 00:11:37.040 ⇒ 00:11:41.549 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve I’ve never worked this consistently hard in my entire life.
133 00:11:41.770 ⇒ 00:11:42.640 Uttam Kumaran: Like
134 00:11:42.920 ⇒ 00:11:54.220 Uttam Kumaran: I, I spent like the last, probably 3 months in this fucking coffee shop, like working like almost every other day. And yeah, so, but it’s it’s been. It’s been really, really rewarding dude like.
135 00:11:54.630 ⇒ 00:11:58.369 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I run my own shit like I hired people. I liked
136 00:11:58.660 ⇒ 00:12:05.000 Uttam Kumaran: it like I learned a lot from the companies I work from, you know, really, some, some really, really positive things, but also
137 00:12:05.280 ⇒ 00:12:09.710 Uttam Kumaran: some ways of working that I think are a lot like more relaxed.
138 00:12:10.298 ⇒ 00:12:13.789 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t have investors, so I don’t
139 00:12:14.040 ⇒ 00:12:21.840 Uttam Kumaran: schmooze. I don’t fucking, do any. I don’t do any. I do. I just work for clients. I I try to sell the best product I can.
140 00:12:22.080 ⇒ 00:12:37.743 Uttam Kumaran: hired, the smartest people I know, and sort of like deliver, and the stuff. We’ve been doing the data work, and AI work has been getting faster. The quality of service has been getting better. The clients have been getting bigger and like some more serious logos. And
141 00:12:38.780 ⇒ 00:12:46.719 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just like it’s just wake up so. And I, I now have a couple. There’s a couple more senior people involved in the business now
142 00:12:46.940 ⇒ 00:12:52.039 Uttam Kumaran: who are like handling a couple of things. So it’s it’s getting good. I’m I’m still like working a lot. But
143 00:12:52.170 ⇒ 00:12:59.650 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a yeah, it’s it’s like, actually a thing. It doesn’t. But it’s yeah. It’s been really good.
144 00:12:59.950 ⇒ 00:13:01.070 Corey Daugherty: Amazing man! Congrats.
145 00:13:01.070 ⇒ 00:13:01.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
146 00:13:01.610 ⇒ 00:13:04.255 Corey Daugherty: I know that’s I know that’s a slog, but that’s
147 00:13:04.750 ⇒ 00:13:08.280 Corey Daugherty: that’s wicked, impressive, and that’s awesome.
148 00:13:08.790 ⇒ 00:13:12.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s it’s different than us. It’s different than a software company.
149 00:13:12.970 ⇒ 00:13:25.209 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s also, you know, it’s the same. You have customers. People get pissed, or people like what you do. And I think the difficult part is not that like it’s not particularly that one thing is really hard. It’s
150 00:13:25.960 ⇒ 00:13:30.641 Uttam Kumaran: there’s just so many things to do which makes it difficult.
151 00:13:31.110 ⇒ 00:13:34.957 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, yeah, no. I hear you. That’s
152 00:13:36.180 ⇒ 00:13:43.750 Corey Daugherty: It’s interesting, like, now that I’ve been kind of exploring the world of what’s next. There are.
153 00:13:44.010 ⇒ 00:13:45.889 Corey Daugherty: There are a number of like
154 00:13:46.590 ⇒ 00:13:52.080 Corey Daugherty: potential part time stuff that have just kind of popped on my plate that I didn’t anticipate
155 00:13:52.340 ⇒ 00:13:54.140 Corey Daugherty: that I that I’m like.
156 00:13:54.760 ⇒ 00:14:02.449 Corey Daugherty: you know, that’s actually not a bad route to get exposure to different things in this period of
157 00:14:02.820 ⇒ 00:14:05.460 Corey Daugherty: like, where I’ve only had one fucking job for 6.
158 00:14:05.460 ⇒ 00:14:08.690 Corey Daugherty: Yes, 6 years. So I’m I’m like.
159 00:14:09.960 ⇒ 00:14:15.470 Corey Daugherty: you know. Obviously, it’s very early stages exploring a number of things. But, like.
160 00:14:16.600 ⇒ 00:14:25.329 Corey Daugherty: you know, over the last week, I’ve definitely been more thinking of, like, damn if I did these 3 things for the next 3 months, like I would learn.
161 00:14:26.110 ⇒ 00:14:29.350 Corey Daugherty: you know, 3 different routes, and I’d be able yes.
162 00:14:29.350 ⇒ 00:14:35.890 Corey Daugherty: my path a little bit more. But at the end of the day it’s like, Oh, I’m like, I’m like a consultant that’s hilarious like I never.
163 00:14:35.890 ⇒ 00:14:47.299 Uttam Kumaran: Me neither. Dude I never thought. Oh, my God, it’s like it’s kind of sucks, even like, think I’m like a consultant. I feel I feel more about like an engineering company. Honestly, like most of our team as engineers, I’m like.
164 00:14:47.800 ⇒ 00:15:02.029 Uttam Kumaran: I’m 1 of 2 business people, I would say, and I don’t like. The business stuff is like the least interesting fucking thing of the whole stuff like. Soon as I can get some people to sell and manage all that. I will, because I don’t. I? Only I just wanna
165 00:15:02.360 ⇒ 00:15:04.210 Uttam Kumaran: work on projects and sort of
166 00:15:04.530 ⇒ 00:15:09.349 Uttam Kumaran: hire great people and spend time with the team. But it’s tough also. But I do think you’re right like.
167 00:15:09.540 ⇒ 00:15:14.099 Uttam Kumaran: in an effort to maximize your rate of learning. I do think that’s a great route.
168 00:15:14.200 ⇒ 00:15:17.419 Uttam Kumaran: It’s also a way easier process to get a job than
169 00:15:17.670 ⇒ 00:15:23.139 Uttam Kumaran: interviewing interviewing sucks right now and getting an interview sucks right now.
170 00:15:23.560 ⇒ 00:15:25.750 Corey Daugherty: It’s insane.
171 00:15:25.750 ⇒ 00:15:50.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you might have a good. I feel like you probably are. Have a leg up just because you you met a lot of people through low code and like you could call in favors, which is good, like you’ll get, you’ll definitely get interviews. But don’t apply for anything online, like I mean the AI stuff. If you tell me a couple of places that you’re interviewing like I’m I’m sure I know someone that can help you out. But that’s also a good way to go in. And like also.
172 00:15:50.450 ⇒ 00:16:06.410 Uttam Kumaran: your expectations are just set like, Hey, I’m not you. You kind of said it like, hey? I’m here. This is my whole background. I’m looking, and I’m interested here like sort of what roles you’re going for. But you can totally like, Hey, I have 10 h, 15 h, and dedicate like go to market. I would love to consult
173 00:16:06.510 ⇒ 00:16:08.509 Uttam Kumaran: or stuff like that, and
174 00:16:08.610 ⇒ 00:16:12.800 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’ll find, you know, if you end up going that route you’ll find it like holy shit
175 00:16:12.980 ⇒ 00:16:17.439 Uttam Kumaran: cool. I’m like making like 15 grand. I’m doing this, but it’s a shit show. It’s like tough.
176 00:16:17.690 ⇒ 00:16:22.239 Uttam Kumaran: And you there’s no getting out of that, like. The only way you get out of it is.
177 00:16:22.400 ⇒ 00:16:30.630 Uttam Kumaran: But most of the people I know that tried to do that they end up going full time at one of their clients, which I think is a great path. And actually, I think it’s a great path
178 00:16:30.900 ⇒ 00:16:33.690 Uttam Kumaran: to make some good money in the short term.
179 00:16:34.040 ⇒ 00:16:38.769 Uttam Kumaran: But like still, go to one of those what pick you basically pick the company that you believe in the most.
180 00:16:38.770 ⇒ 00:16:39.750 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, exactly.
181 00:16:39.750 ⇒ 00:16:48.355 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, or you could do the consulting thing. It’s just fucking hard. It’s it’s starting a, it’s starting a company which is not yeah. It’s
182 00:16:49.290 ⇒ 00:16:50.410 Corey Daugherty: No, we’ll see. I mean.
183 00:16:50.410 ⇒ 00:16:51.520 Uttam Kumaran: More than yeah.
184 00:16:51.520 ⇒ 00:16:53.830 Corey Daugherty: It’s a it’s an interesting time, because
185 00:16:54.610 ⇒ 00:17:00.530 Corey Daugherty: we’ll see. But I just this morning I just finished my final round with Doordash.
186 00:17:01.000 ⇒ 00:17:01.730 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay.
187 00:17:02.140 ⇒ 00:17:17.899 Corey Daugherty: That’s like a very much of an outlier in all of the conversations that I’ve had most are very, you know, casual, and it’s like, Oh, you could do this that, like, you know, different industries. AI Startup land. But like Doordash
188 00:17:18.050 ⇒ 00:17:27.017 Corey Daugherty: is a really unique role. It’s a startup. They’re launching a product within the Doordash ecosystem. And it would be like a product strategy. And Ops role.
189 00:17:27.990 ⇒ 00:17:30.420 Corey Daugherty: being like the glue between everything I’m like.
190 00:17:30.750 ⇒ 00:17:33.179 Corey Daugherty: it would be very hard to say no to that.
191 00:17:33.180 ⇒ 00:17:33.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
192 00:17:33.940 ⇒ 00:17:35.179 Corey Daugherty: So especially.
193 00:17:35.180 ⇒ 00:17:40.940 Uttam Kumaran: What like, what? What? Tell me about the process like? What? Tell me? One. Why, you left curious?
194 00:17:42.500 ⇒ 00:17:52.539 Uttam Kumaran: less less about like if it’s just because you’re like, fuck these people, I’ll get out, and that’s fine. But if you actually had like a 1 like what you what you what you think what you’re thinking about, and second, like
195 00:17:52.790 ⇒ 00:17:54.480 Uttam Kumaran: would love to hear like what
196 00:17:54.860 ⇒ 00:17:59.050 Uttam Kumaran: sort of roles, or even like the type of job you’re thinking about.
197 00:17:59.050 ⇒ 00:18:04.849 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, the the reflection really was just. I’ve been there for 6 years, and that’s been my only job. And
198 00:18:05.360 ⇒ 00:18:09.940 Corey Daugherty: realizing look a lot of frustrations. Sure, it’s not like.
199 00:18:10.730 ⇒ 00:18:12.889 Corey Daugherty: you know. I’ve always been passionate about flow.
200 00:18:12.890 ⇒ 00:18:13.330 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, sure.
201 00:18:13.330 ⇒ 00:18:17.520 Corey Daugherty: It. It dropped right, and it’s there was things that like bothered me
202 00:18:17.690 ⇒ 00:18:25.430 Corey Daugherty: that probably made me wake up a little bit, but like the end of the day. It’s a bit of a disservice to my career if I don’t explore other things.
203 00:18:25.430 ⇒ 00:18:28.119 Uttam Kumaran: 100%. So that’s that’s.
204 00:18:28.120 ⇒ 00:18:35.089 Corey Daugherty: 80% of the whole thing. And from a role perspective.
205 00:18:35.310 ⇒ 00:18:43.949 Corey Daugherty: I think what I realized like, what what I really value is like entrepreneurial operations.
206 00:18:44.390 ⇒ 00:18:45.590 Uttam Kumaran: And.
207 00:18:46.290 ⇒ 00:18:52.779 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, that lends itself towards early stage. But I think I recognize that there’s, you know, other things
208 00:18:53.160 ⇒ 00:18:55.019 Corey Daugherty: that I want to get exposure to.
209 00:18:55.160 ⇒ 00:18:55.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
210 00:18:56.310 ⇒ 00:19:03.909 Corey Daugherty: And so hence the late state, like Doordash, and stuff like that. But you know the other reflection is like, you know.
211 00:19:05.300 ⇒ 00:19:14.880 Corey Daugherty: found I found myself in a really great foundation of B, 2 B. Saas, and having that under my belt for so long, and seeing 6 to 110 people.
212 00:19:15.790 ⇒ 00:19:17.880 Corey Daugherty: but it’s hard to not say.
213 00:19:18.760 ⇒ 00:19:22.860 Corey Daugherty: wow! Wouldn’t jumping into AI really build on that foundation.
214 00:19:23.080 ⇒ 00:19:23.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
215 00:19:23.630 ⇒ 00:19:28.600 Corey Daugherty: I’ve I’ve gotten exposed to it a number of different ways. And
216 00:19:29.250 ⇒ 00:19:37.140 Corey Daugherty: like that was one where it’s like, you know what good time in my life don’t have many responsibilities like I would be flexible to a role
217 00:19:37.480 ⇒ 00:19:44.090 Corey Daugherty: that you know, if it was at a place where, you know, I was expediting my learnings in in
218 00:19:45.543 ⇒ 00:19:49.940 Corey Daugherty: so like, whether it’s more product or go to market like
219 00:19:50.240 ⇒ 00:19:57.210 Corey Daugherty: I would like it to take on like more of like entrepreneurial in nature, you know.
220 00:19:58.080 ⇒ 00:20:01.880 Corey Daugherty: like I I met with, I met up with someone from anthropic for.
221 00:20:01.880 ⇒ 00:20:02.350 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
222 00:20:02.350 ⇒ 00:20:03.600 Corey Daugherty: For coffee, right?
223 00:20:04.040 ⇒ 00:20:10.220 Corey Daugherty: Connection from a friend that played basketball. She played at Brown. And it’s like, that’s kind of what I’ve been doing like that. That’s.
224 00:20:10.220 ⇒ 00:20:11.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
225 00:20:11.120 ⇒ 00:20:17.619 Corey Daugherty: Going whatever I would be a ae at at anthropic like.
226 00:20:17.620 ⇒ 00:20:18.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
227 00:20:18.110 ⇒ 00:20:27.979 Corey Daugherty: To get my feet in the door like who get I? I’ve been like doing partnerships, and I can sell. I’ve done it like, am I overly passionate about selling?
228 00:20:28.530 ⇒ 00:20:31.920 Corey Daugherty: Probably not. But to go to and for sure.
229 00:20:31.920 ⇒ 00:20:35.309 Corey Daugherty: like, that’s kinda I’m being very opportunistic and.
230 00:20:35.310 ⇒ 00:20:36.600 Uttam Kumaran: Totally. I’m kind of treating.
231 00:20:37.540 ⇒ 00:20:47.229 Corey Daugherty: Each opportunity a bit differently. Right? If it’s like this early stage opportunity. That’s a little bit more nuanced. I’d be like, all right. I’m not going to be an ae.
232 00:20:47.480 ⇒ 00:20:55.440 Corey Daugherty: I’m not gonna be chief of staff. It’s like, gonna be more, something much more strategic. And you know, you know where I’m I’m whatever so.
233 00:20:56.230 ⇒ 00:20:59.589 Corey Daugherty: And the only way to get there is through these type of conversations. So that’s.
234 00:20:59.590 ⇒ 00:20:59.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
235 00:20:59.970 ⇒ 00:21:04.539 Corey Daugherty: I’ve been. That’s how I’ve been doing it. Have you? Have you connected with Adam?
236 00:21:05.600 ⇒ 00:21:09.509 Uttam Kumaran: No, not recently. No. I talked to David the other day.
237 00:21:09.510 ⇒ 00:21:09.900 Corey Daugherty: So.
238 00:21:09.900 ⇒ 00:21:14.170 Uttam Kumaran: I talked. I talked to Saul maybe like a few years ago, maybe 2 years ago.
239 00:21:14.170 ⇒ 00:21:19.430 Corey Daugherty: So Adam Adam is the C. Adam started his own AI. Company.
240 00:21:19.760 ⇒ 00:21:22.819 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. But what does it do? What? What is the company?
241 00:21:22.820 ⇒ 00:21:32.399 Corey Daugherty: It’s called Actus AI, and I’m not. This is one of the I connected with him just to connect with him, and he’s like
242 00:21:33.070 ⇒ 00:21:33.890 Corey Daugherty: raising a.
243 00:21:33.890 ⇒ 00:21:34.390 Uttam Kumaran: Flowing out.
244 00:21:34.390 ⇒ 00:21:42.070 Corey Daugherty: At the end of March, and he’s like, I want you. Let’s go like part-time, whatever like. So
245 00:21:44.960 ⇒ 00:21:48.909 Corey Daugherty: yeah, there it’s it’s kind of interesting. Have you heard of llama index.
246 00:21:48.910 ⇒ 00:21:49.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
247 00:21:49.930 ⇒ 00:21:52.120 Corey Daugherty: It’s similar. It’s similar to them.
248 00:21:53.090 ⇒ 00:22:01.789 Uttam Kumaran: Are you? Do you have anywhere? So yeah, to give you context, we build, we do a lot of like region building for clients.
249 00:22:01.950 ⇒ 00:22:07.050 Uttam Kumaran: So I’ve used like, we use every Lm.
250 00:22:07.320 ⇒ 00:22:11.759 Uttam Kumaran: we use, like every we I like. I basically talk to every vendor.
251 00:22:12.170 ⇒ 00:22:34.080 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s funny now, because now that I have a company. People pick up my call, and then before they they didn’t, which is great, because I get to talk to like any startup that makes that that like raises a call. I immediately can get on the phone and be like, what’s the deal here? 80% of it is like total trash, though. So that’s 1 thing meaning trash, meaning like
252 00:22:34.280 ⇒ 00:22:52.690 Uttam Kumaran: trash in a couple of ways. For me, trash is like not winning or not being there long term as someone who makes infrastructure decisions on behalf of clients. I can’t use technology that’s jank or half baked, even if you’re gonna give me a fucking discount, or whatever. So for me, I I am in the business of picking
253 00:22:53.220 ⇒ 00:23:07.159 Uttam Kumaran: like the winners, but also AI is new, so there’s not you don’t know. So in every part of the stack I sort of know the major players. Like, take the foundational models out of it. Yeah, you have, like link chain llama index.
254 00:23:07.650 ⇒ 00:23:18.969 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of those guys, though. It’s like, I’m unsure what’s gonna happen in them long term because they’re just like frameworks and their platforms for developers.
255 00:23:19.090 ⇒ 00:23:26.100 Uttam Kumaran: And a lot of companies you’re probably looking at would be like, Yeah, we have, like 50,000 Github stars. A lot of that’s farmed.
256 00:23:26.260 ⇒ 00:23:41.819 Uttam Kumaran: Second thing is, you’ll see, people will be like, Yeah, we have like a hundred 1,000 developers. That’s because they release something for free and like a hundred. You know the free problem, you know very well. So it’s like that. You? What what you should do is ask them what’s their turn on
257 00:23:41.970 ⇒ 00:23:43.450 Uttam Kumaran: unpaid accounts.
258 00:23:43.710 ⇒ 00:23:45.520 Corey Daugherty: Well, the interesting thing like.
259 00:23:45.520 ⇒ 00:24:04.877 Uttam Kumaran: Thing that’s me. But you know this meaning like this, industry is very new, and a lot of people are playing the like game. Where on the outside and things are very polished. But when you look at the users, or like people who are actually using the product, there’s very little a lot of is consolidated to a couple of things.
260 00:24:05.360 ⇒ 00:24:05.810 Corey Daugherty: Not here, so.
261 00:24:05.810 ⇒ 00:24:10.240 Uttam Kumaran: Up like you don’t want to go. Spend your time like I would say, anthropic.
262 00:24:10.720 ⇒ 00:24:14.900 Uttam Kumaran: Try and every layer that you’re looking at to go for one of the top. 3.
263 00:24:15.210 ⇒ 00:24:15.570 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
264 00:24:15.570 ⇒ 00:24:18.370 Uttam Kumaran: Like if you if you saw a llama index go there.
265 00:24:18.490 ⇒ 00:24:25.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you could. You be part of like something new blah blah fuck that dude like.
266 00:24:25.030 ⇒ 00:24:25.660 Corey Daugherty: No.
267 00:24:25.660 ⇒ 00:24:46.150 Uttam Kumaran: Go. There’s couple. There are a couple of people that are like a little bit ahead. I think you should go straight for them, whether it’s yeah, whether it’s open. AI Mistral, anthropic perplexity, or there’s some people that are doing similar things on like the evaluation side. And like the testing side.
268 00:24:46.150 ⇒ 00:24:51.089 Corey Daugherty: What do you think about like one of the one of the like? Very high level.
269 00:24:51.210 ⇒ 00:24:54.939 Corey Daugherty: like, okay, everyone talks about this year being
270 00:24:55.450 ⇒ 00:25:01.230 Corey Daugherty: the the year of agents right and the end state
271 00:25:01.340 ⇒ 00:25:04.360 Corey Daugherty: is that they will be able to
272 00:25:04.680 ⇒ 00:25:09.249 Corey Daugherty: transact and actually take action on behalf of a person.
273 00:25:09.480 ⇒ 00:25:10.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
274 00:25:10.210 ⇒ 00:25:19.010 Corey Daugherty: The the inner layer between an agent actually being able to purchase a flight on delta.com, or
275 00:25:19.580 ⇒ 00:25:24.019 Corey Daugherty: of like a resi, or or like.
276 00:25:24.800 ⇒ 00:25:26.819 Corey Daugherty: There seems to be like a
277 00:25:27.310 ⇒ 00:25:31.479 Corey Daugherty: us like that layer for me like that seems interesting.
278 00:25:31.480 ⇒ 00:25:31.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
279 00:25:31.930 ⇒ 00:25:34.389 Corey Daugherty: Because I don’t really care which agents, when.
280 00:25:34.390 ⇒ 00:25:35.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
281 00:25:35.590 ⇒ 00:25:42.889 Corey Daugherty: Like. There’s gonna have to be some interconnectivity between. Delta is not gonna know how to fucking. Engage with agent like.
282 00:25:42.890 ⇒ 00:25:52.720 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s that’s the thing. That’s why. So there’s a couple of there’s a couple of like crypto companies that are basically trying to build like you’re probably looking at like virtual or something.
283 00:25:52.720 ⇒ 00:25:53.400 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
284 00:25:53.520 ⇒ 00:25:56.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so basically they’re like, they’re trying to be like.
285 00:25:56.540 ⇒ 00:26:01.430 Uttam Kumaran: basically their pitch. And I listen to like half a podcast about this. So I may not have the whole thing.
286 00:26:01.600 ⇒ 00:26:07.140 Uttam Kumaran: but my friend popped my fucking year off on it, and he was like agents can’t get issued
287 00:26:07.718 ⇒ 00:26:12.309 Uttam Kumaran: bank accounts so. But they, you can give an agent like a like a
288 00:26:12.630 ⇒ 00:26:21.893 Uttam Kumaran: crypto wallet. And so basically, he’s like the agents are, gonna start inner are gonna start using that to pay for stuff and like, pay for goods.
289 00:26:24.120 ⇒ 00:26:28.899 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I I do think that there will have to be, but I don’t know. I also, like
290 00:26:29.030 ⇒ 00:26:35.130 Uttam Kumaran: my question back would be like, why can’t they can use your wallet like this? Why can they have your credit card number and go fill it out.
291 00:26:35.130 ⇒ 00:26:43.669 Corey Daugherty: There’s there’s there is like, there’s a lot of action here. There’s, you know, stripe released the SDK for agents, which is like, Okay, that’s pretty interesting.
292 00:26:43.670 ⇒ 00:26:46.809 Uttam Kumaran: And they, yeah. And they just bought this like Usdc company.
293 00:26:46.940 ⇒ 00:26:57.260 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a lot of stuff in agents to do the agent like we build agents every day like even in our company, slack. We have like 5 agents that do a bunch of shit that you can hit up and ask for shit.
294 00:26:57.590 ⇒ 00:27:01.209 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s sick. It’s a fucking best thing, for as a business owner
295 00:27:01.630 ⇒ 00:27:04.539 Uttam Kumaran: it’s fucking great, because I’m not gonna fucking hire for some of these.
296 00:27:04.690 ⇒ 00:27:33.239 Uttam Kumaran: for some of these roles where it’s just moving information around. I’m like we had a human move. The information from a meeting to notion. Fuck that like I’m gonna build that. The problem I’m seeing is that I’m not sure like how to make a bet on an infrastructure company there like there are. We use some free tools. We also there are some AI agent builder companies where you go and you build like the workflows, I’m sure, you see, make there’s a really good company, called Val.
297 00:27:33.440 ⇒ 00:27:35.710 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a couple of other ones I could send your way.
298 00:27:36.605 ⇒ 00:27:41.220 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I just like they’re all the same fucking 100 features.
299 00:27:41.220 ⇒ 00:27:41.820 Corey Daugherty: And now.
300 00:27:41.820 ⇒ 00:27:45.089 Uttam Kumaran: And they all claim to be the best. So
301 00:27:45.540 ⇒ 00:27:52.800 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, I don’t know even if they rate. This is a problem too dude. It’s like whether you raise 50 million, a hundred 1 million.
302 00:27:53.030 ⇒ 00:27:57.109 Uttam Kumaran: It doesn’t you? That doesn’t. You can’t buy the number one spot.
303 00:27:57.350 ⇒ 00:27:58.340 Uttam Kumaran: So.
304 00:27:58.620 ⇒ 00:27:59.389 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, and then and then.
305 00:27:59.390 ⇒ 00:28:00.200 Uttam Kumaran: Really, really, hard.
306 00:28:00.200 ⇒ 00:28:01.349 Corey Daugherty: But but then.
307 00:28:01.580 ⇒ 00:28:19.579 Corey Daugherty: yeah, it’s really hard. And it’s changing really fast. And then Openai releases tasks. And you’re like, well, they already have all of the fucking users, and all we have to do is iterate on tasks a little bit more? And what are all of these companies like so like that?
308 00:28:19.580 ⇒ 00:28:19.910 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
309 00:28:19.910 ⇒ 00:28:22.620 Corey Daugherty: Keep coming back to if I’m gonna do it to your point.
310 00:28:22.620 ⇒ 00:28:29.700 Uttam Kumaran: I think you should go somewhere deep, so you should go somewhere at the application layer like you could go somewhere like Harvey AI.
311 00:28:29.960 ⇒ 00:28:30.560 Corey Daugherty: Yes.
312 00:28:30.560 ⇒ 00:28:55.499 Uttam Kumaran: It goes something at that level like where they’re they’re trying to get such a vertical eye. So the biggest thing I feel is the general purpose stuff that’s in the middle of like, and you seem, I think you kind of get the whole stack like between the Llms and the human. There’s like all these, the agent builders. There’s a framework. There’s a blah blah. All of that shit hard to know who’s gonna win. I feel lucky that it doesn’t matter for me. I go with the best one.
313 00:28:55.710 ⇒ 00:28:56.250 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
314 00:28:56.250 ⇒ 00:29:05.969 Uttam Kumaran: And I watch some. I’ve just seen others on die, and that’s it. I just picked the best one at the top level, though you have like Harvey, AI, and you’re gonna have some of these verticalized
315 00:29:06.510 ⇒ 00:29:19.729 Uttam Kumaran: like half software, half agent, half workflow builders that they’re going to be so specialized to legal. And I know Harvey AI in particular, is doing really really well, and they’ve raised a bunch more money that I think they will
316 00:29:19.900 ⇒ 00:29:24.089 Uttam Kumaran: like open AI is never gonna build something for the legal industry.
317 00:29:24.290 ⇒ 00:29:25.249 Uttam Kumaran: It’s too narrow.
318 00:29:25.650 ⇒ 00:29:26.220 Corey Daugherty: Exactly.
319 00:29:26.220 ⇒ 00:29:55.310 Uttam Kumaran: In fact, like right, they’re gonna build something that everybody on planet Earth wants to use instead of like all lawyers. So whether it’s right now or in 5 years. There’s gonna be these verticalized sort of like AI, it’s not. It’s not really software, because there may not even be like a ui, but it’s all AI focused on a vertical right? It’s either fine tuned or trained on legal documents. Hyper aware of legal process. So there’s, I think really good opportunity. There’s some in legal. There’s some in finance.
320 00:29:55.480 ⇒ 00:29:58.590 Corey Daugherty: The other problem, cashmere.
321 00:29:59.350 ⇒ 00:30:00.120 Uttam Kumaran: What do they do?
322 00:30:00.120 ⇒ 00:30:12.830 Corey Daugherty: Wealth management mostly, but kind of like sale, like kind of like replacing the Sdr role like it seems a little bit more horizontal. But they’ve they focused on wealth management. It’s.
323 00:30:12.830 ⇒ 00:30:16.010 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t. And there’s also there’s also like clay for one
324 00:30:16.010 ⇒ 00:30:19.619 Uttam Kumaran: on the marketing side. Clay is probably like the biggest
325 00:30:19.810 ⇒ 00:30:24.659 Uttam Kumaran: winner like we use play for our company, and we help companies do play stuff.
326 00:30:26.390 ⇒ 00:30:29.499 Uttam Kumaran: The marketing stuff, though, like I don’t know. I feel like.
327 00:30:29.770 ⇒ 00:30:30.380 Corey Daugherty: Them. I’m.
328 00:30:30.380 ⇒ 00:30:31.650 Uttam Kumaran: Anything really saturated.
329 00:30:31.650 ⇒ 00:30:34.579 Corey Daugherty: I’m I’m like I’ve been in like the Martech world.
330 00:30:34.580 ⇒ 00:30:35.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
331 00:30:35.310 ⇒ 00:30:36.359 Corey Daugherty: Like, I’m like.
332 00:30:36.360 ⇒ 00:30:38.429 Uttam Kumaran: Think like I don’t know. I feel like
333 00:30:39.050 ⇒ 00:30:45.800 Uttam Kumaran: you should go towards the hardest shit like I do think the application layer is like really sexy. But
334 00:30:45.900 ⇒ 00:30:48.959 Uttam Kumaran: I think you should go towards the foundational models
335 00:30:49.529 ⇒ 00:30:56.510 Uttam Kumaran: or towards the foundational like image. People like the stuff in the bottom is really the thing that like
336 00:30:58.630 ⇒ 00:31:02.480 Uttam Kumaran: I think if I was in the industry like looking, I would go there, because
337 00:31:03.400 ⇒ 00:31:10.370 Uttam Kumaran: that’s where the foundational research is happening. And if you can get in there and help them sell it or bring it to life.
338 00:31:10.540 ⇒ 00:31:13.340 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s a lot of value like
339 00:31:13.450 ⇒ 00:31:17.099 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I I think everything in the middle you never know and do. The other thing is.
340 00:31:17.470 ⇒ 00:31:25.519 Uttam Kumaran: people are right now are raising like they were raising like a few years ago. So you that that sort of money raised doesn’t tell you anything about whether they’re gonna win or not.
341 00:31:25.670 ⇒ 00:31:26.090 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
342 00:31:26.090 ⇒ 00:31:31.819 Uttam Kumaran: Also, like you’ll see, some of the people at the companies have never been at a another company, never been at a startup.
343 00:31:31.980 ⇒ 00:31:37.859 Uttam Kumaran: So the odds are really against some of these guys. And of course you have to be confident in your company. But
344 00:31:37.970 ⇒ 00:31:49.660 Uttam Kumaran: did you raise 50 million like? It’s hard. It’s really hard to grow that kind of company. So you want. You also want to go and be surrounded by like hardcore winners. You don’t want to be the smartest person in the room
345 00:31:50.277 ⇒ 00:31:55.679 Uttam Kumaran: unless you’re gonna go go for unless you’re gonna be part of the pie right? So.
346 00:31:56.130 ⇒ 00:32:01.089 Corey Daugherty: Well, yeah, that’s why that’s all part of the calculus.
347 00:32:01.090 ⇒ 00:32:01.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
348 00:32:01.610 ⇒ 00:32:07.530 Corey Daugherty: Also. That’s why, like fingers crossed, I would be. I would be super pumped with Doordash.
349 00:32:07.530 ⇒ 00:32:12.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn’t scratch the AI itch. I’ll find a way to scratch.
350 00:32:12.570 ⇒ 00:32:17.950 Uttam Kumaran: And they got the CEO of that company is really good Tony, like a very, very famous company, and very like.
351 00:32:17.950 ⇒ 00:32:21.920 Corey Daugherty: I’ll do, I’ll do. I’ll do shit on the side. So I’m learning. AI, and.
352 00:32:21.920 ⇒ 00:32:30.130 Uttam Kumaran: You should, you should consider trying to help me. I mean again, one thing is like you could consider definitely doing like, go to market help or product, strategy, help.
353 00:32:30.130 ⇒ 00:32:30.770 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
354 00:32:30.960 ⇒ 00:32:45.209 Uttam Kumaran: As people come to you, just name a price and say, Look, I could. I’m happy to do hourly at this rate. Happy to give you like 5 HA week, and just chat. Just do that or it’s offer free help, but doesn’t take much skin off your back.
355 00:32:45.630 ⇒ 00:33:08.959 Uttam Kumaran: And then you can kind of get a sense of the world. I think for me, I have a unique angle because I use a lot of the tools like for engineering. And so I can kind of suss it out really easily. It’s hard. I feel like it’s hard on the other side. Everything looks very everyone looks like they’re everyone looks like they’re crushing. And it’s actually it’s such the it’s like the opposite. I also have a couple of people who are on the business side, you know. Default
356 00:33:09.280 ⇒ 00:33:23.379 Uttam Kumaran: company. You search up like default. They’re like an inbound lead workflow company. They’re kind of like there’s a couple of. They’re like kind of the winner in the space. But I know that head of partnerships there. I would love to introduce here. She’s like a good friend of mine
357 00:33:23.510 ⇒ 00:33:29.463 Uttam Kumaran: here in Austin. I think you might find a good conversation talking to her.
358 00:33:31.110 ⇒ 00:33:36.549 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I mentioned this company vellum BELL.
359 00:33:36.790 ⇒ 00:33:42.950 Uttam Kumaran: They’re also very, very good. I, we use them, but we we took a trial with them.
360 00:33:43.230 ⇒ 00:33:45.509 Uttam Kumaran: but their product is really really good.
361 00:33:47.170 ⇒ 00:33:49.280 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m trying to think if there’s like.
362 00:33:50.540 ⇒ 00:33:55.149 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, do. The other thing is, you could consider going to like trying to get onto Google
363 00:33:55.370 ⇒ 00:33:59.579 Uttam Kumaran: for Gemini, or something like that. I don’t know. Maybe every one of their mom was trying to do that. But
364 00:34:00.060 ⇒ 00:34:04.589 Uttam Kumaran: and maybe it’s hard to actually go do something there. But yeah, I.
365 00:34:05.050 ⇒ 00:34:11.049 Corey Daugherty: I. That’s kind of where I’m at where it’s like trying to suss down like really focus on.
366 00:34:11.340 ⇒ 00:34:20.459 Corey Daugherty: you know, I feel good where, like, where I’ve netted out with this doordash thing. Yeah.
367 00:34:20.710 ⇒ 00:34:29.569 Corey Daugherty: that doesn’t pan out. I think that’s the exact approach that I’m gonna take is like, Hey, I’ll do these things part time that I have in the in that I’m cooking right now.
368 00:34:30.310 ⇒ 00:34:34.399 Corey Daugherty: Which is great. I didn’t, did not expect mid January to have
369 00:34:34.769 ⇒ 00:34:39.999 Corey Daugherty: any options so like I’m like, honestly like I’m like, did not.
370 00:34:40.000 ⇒ 00:34:51.689 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. Also, you have a lot of background in like, think about flow code. You have so many ways of connecting to whoever company you talk to like, there’s a lot of stuff happening in creative AI for video media.
371 00:34:51.699 ⇒ 00:34:52.299 Corey Daugherty: Yeah.
372 00:34:52.300 ⇒ 00:34:54.630 Uttam Kumaran: Stuff like that like that’d be really interesting.
373 00:34:55.230 ⇒ 00:35:00.319 Uttam Kumaran: You know, the the stuff that’s like very obvious is gonna flow to the top. But
374 00:35:00.838 ⇒ 00:35:04.709 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I feel like there’s a lot of it’s so. It’s just like
375 00:35:05.210 ⇒ 00:35:08.719 Uttam Kumaran: it’s so early. I don’t even know what’s gonna happen. But
376 00:35:08.820 ⇒ 00:35:11.099 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, it’s a good place to
377 00:35:11.420 ⇒ 00:35:16.610 Uttam Kumaran: find some way to ride this wave, because it seems to be quite large, and
378 00:35:17.310 ⇒ 00:35:20.690 Uttam Kumaran: like I’ve never seen anything move this fast.
379 00:35:20.850 ⇒ 00:35:23.930 Uttam Kumaran: And the technology is like, amazing, like.
380 00:35:24.240 ⇒ 00:35:26.499 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna automate half our business
381 00:35:26.760 ⇒ 00:35:37.774 Uttam Kumaran: with AI 100. And I I don’t need anyone to tell me that I can’t do that. It doesn’t matter what they think. It’s I’m already doing it. So it’s not like a it’s not like a linkedin post.
382 00:35:38.290 ⇒ 00:35:40.950 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I don’t know. I feel like
383 00:35:41.260 ⇒ 00:35:50.370 Uttam Kumaran: finding a way to. But also look, if you take the Doordash thing, even having that on your resume will open like people will start. People will pick up your phone call and like.
384 00:35:50.370 ⇒ 00:35:51.300 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, that’s what I mean.
385 00:35:51.300 ⇒ 00:35:56.349 Uttam Kumaran: There for a year and then decide so I wouldn’t worry too much about like
386 00:35:56.510 ⇒ 00:36:00.689 Uttam Kumaran: this is not going anywhere. It’s also like you want to think about what your leverage is
387 00:36:01.090 ⇒ 00:36:07.179 Uttam Kumaran: like. If if you want to go in as like a co-founder, if you want to go in as like a at a partnership or something
388 00:36:07.690 ⇒ 00:36:14.050 Uttam Kumaran: you have to think about like. Would you hire yourself like? Do you have the resume that you would look at and be like, hire that guy.
389 00:36:14.050 ⇒ 00:36:15.580 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, exactly.
390 00:36:18.490 ⇒ 00:36:26.429 Corey Daugherty: Oh, alright. Well, I gotta. I gotta unfortunately run. I gotta catch a flight. Going to visit my buddy in Puerto Rico.
391 00:36:26.760 ⇒ 00:36:28.229 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no way sick.
392 00:36:28.230 ⇒ 00:36:30.330 Corey Daugherty: So you know life is good.
393 00:36:30.330 ⇒ 00:36:32.639 Uttam Kumaran: Are you unemployed right now, or are you just chilling.
394 00:36:33.086 ⇒ 00:36:38.719 Corey Daugherty: No, I’m transitioning through through January. But I mean.
395 00:36:38.970 ⇒ 00:36:46.030 Corey Daugherty: less than less than 5% brainpower going to flow code. We have a big. We have a big quad meeting on Thursday next week.
396 00:36:46.030 ⇒ 00:36:46.460 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
397 00:36:46.460 ⇒ 00:37:00.806 Corey Daugherty: So like. That’s my transition point. Which I’m like, you know, leading on. But in the actual meeting I doubt they’ll expect me to like lead, cause that would be kind of. But yeah, no, it’s it’s all good. It’s it’s all.
398 00:37:01.720 ⇒ 00:37:06.110 Corey Daugherty: It’s good to be able to do this. And you know it was good. It was. It was great. Seeing you, man, I’ll follow up.
399 00:37:06.110 ⇒ 00:37:06.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Dude.
400 00:37:06.610 ⇒ 00:37:08.709 Corey Daugherty: I appreciate. Jam, jam with you.
401 00:37:08.710 ⇒ 00:37:11.220 Uttam Kumaran: Of course. Yeah, sorry I’ve been so. I mean.
402 00:37:11.220 ⇒ 00:37:11.840 Corey Daugherty: Yeah. Dude.
403 00:37:11.840 ⇒ 00:37:13.819 Uttam Kumaran: I know you heard the story hopefully. That makes up.
404 00:37:13.820 ⇒ 00:37:14.670 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, no, I
405 00:37:15.110 ⇒ 00:37:22.790 Corey Daugherty: dude I’m I’m pumped for you. I’m pumped for you. That’s incredible stuff. And you’re I might pick your brain about.
406 00:37:22.790 ⇒ 00:37:27.149 Uttam Kumaran: Please. Yeah, if you have any questions about this stuff I happen to be doing.
407 00:37:27.150 ⇒ 00:37:27.900 Corey Daugherty: You happen to be.
408 00:37:27.900 ⇒ 00:37:28.340 Uttam Kumaran: My.
409 00:37:28.340 ⇒ 00:37:31.669 Corey Daugherty: Yeah, you happen to be an AI consultant. So
410 00:37:32.267 ⇒ 00:37:37.050 Uttam Kumaran: You may not like what I have to say, though, so you could take it with a grain of salt, but.
411 00:37:37.050 ⇒ 00:37:37.640 Corey Daugherty: I have to.
412 00:37:37.640 ⇒ 00:37:46.980 Uttam Kumaran: I also would. I also want to definitely connect you with a couple of people. So just send me the send me a note, and then, when I’m on my laptop, I’ll think of a couple of other people we’re talking to.
413 00:37:46.980 ⇒ 00:37:49.620 Corey Daugherty: Got you, man, I I appreciate it. Alright. Take care.
414 00:37:49.620 ⇒ 00:37:50.820 Uttam Kumaran: Safely, talk soon.
415 00:37:50.820 ⇒ 00:37:51.670 Corey Daugherty: Thank you. Bye.