Meeting Title: Zoom Meeting Date: 2025-01-08 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:01:49.380 ⇒ 00:01:50.430 Robert Tseng: Hello!
2 00:01:51.390 ⇒ 00:01:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
3 00:01:53.550 ⇒ 00:01:55.560 Robert Tseng: I, okay.
4 00:01:56.943 ⇒ 00:01:57.750 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s go
5 00:01:58.590 ⇒ 00:02:05.400 Uttam Kumaran: yo. It’s so cold here, and I just like I don’t turn on the heater at night, and then I wake up, and it’s like
6 00:02:05.890 ⇒ 00:02:10.840 Uttam Kumaran: 60 degrees in my house. It’s like, it’s just like freezing now in Austin.
7 00:02:11.000 ⇒ 00:02:13.126 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, is it? All of a sudden.
8 00:02:13.820 ⇒ 00:02:17.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah. And then in California there’s wildfires. So like a good chance.
9 00:02:17.530 ⇒ 00:02:18.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
10 00:02:18.280 ⇒ 00:02:20.269 Robert Tseng: Out of power. It’s crazy.
11 00:02:20.270 ⇒ 00:02:28.020 Uttam Kumaran: I thought the weather in your I mean, your neck of the woods always is like sort of it’s like, always a storm or something.
12 00:02:28.150 ⇒ 00:02:29.640 Robert Tseng: It’s cold. Yeah.
13 00:02:30.450 ⇒ 00:02:38.521 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, yeah, it’s it’s really cool. I turn the heater on. But it’s taking a minute. So.
14 00:02:38.970 ⇒ 00:02:45.399 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I somehow have been able to make it without turning on the heater yet. But I think.
15 00:02:45.400 ⇒ 00:02:48.979 Uttam Kumaran: Really. So you make a good. You might have good insulation, I guess.
16 00:02:49.210 ⇒ 00:02:55.809 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it gets down to like 62 or 63 in the in the home.
17 00:02:55.930 ⇒ 00:02:58.880 Robert Tseng: But that’s bearable. It goes anything below that.
18 00:02:58.880 ⇒ 00:03:07.529 Uttam Kumaran: That’s that Asian mentality. Bro, like that’s the Asian dude. That’s the my dad is like. Don’t tell who touch the A/C like.
19 00:03:07.530 ⇒ 00:03:07.980 Robert Tseng: And that.
20 00:03:08.337 ⇒ 00:03:22.649 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the funny part. That’s 1 of the things that when I got my own place I was like, A/C is running all the time I have trauma from my dad, never turning on the the A/C. In the summer.
21 00:03:22.740 ⇒ 00:03:39.820 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m like I keep. It’s like 85 in the house. I’m trying to get to bed or in the winter. It’s like so cold. I I’m like, I don’t want to even go downstairs. So I broke out of the shackles, and I’m like we’re using the heater.
22 00:03:40.110 ⇒ 00:03:44.979 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I I turn on the A/C the heater. I’m I’m okay with. I like it cold. So I don’t. I don’t mind.
23 00:03:45.290 ⇒ 00:03:46.629 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay. Okay.
24 00:03:46.760 ⇒ 00:03:47.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
25 00:03:48.510 ⇒ 00:03:59.190 Robert Tseng: Cool man. Yeah, let’s let’s chat, I think. Thanks for the yeah. I know, probably overdue for for a chat. Here. We’ve been just kind of charging ahead, so good good time to reflect.
26 00:03:59.190 ⇒ 00:04:08.609 Uttam Kumaran: I mean. Look, I think, overall. I was also talking to my girlfriend, and she was like, you’ve been sending out more proposals I feel like than we we’ve like ever had so.
27 00:04:08.610 ⇒ 00:04:09.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
28 00:04:09.700 ⇒ 00:04:14.360 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s been like, really, really positive, you know.
29 00:04:14.510 ⇒ 00:04:21.709 Uttam Kumaran: on that side, I think we really made a big push on the sales side. It’s good, and a lot of it’s backlogged from December. But.
30 00:04:21.940 ⇒ 00:04:30.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think December. We made a big push, and no, I I know there’s probably misunderstanding. I’m not saying I mean, I feel pressure that like.
31 00:04:30.280 ⇒ 00:04:36.270 Robert Tseng: I mean, yeah, I I know how hard I was pushing in December. And like, now I feel like I’m just like barely keeping.
32 00:04:36.470 ⇒ 00:04:42.029 Robert Tseng: I I would not say I’m not keeping the momentum. I feel sales is like that. It’s like you’re either pushing.
33 00:04:42.030 ⇒ 00:04:42.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
34 00:04:42.550 ⇒ 00:05:04.219 Robert Tseng: You’re not, and there’s no like kind of you’re not just keeping it humming along like I don’t think that’s how sales works like you have been moving forward, or you’re regressing. And to me this like a a month. Well, not early in the month, so I’m not necessarily saying it’ll be like this for the rest of the month. But yeah, I feel I feel behind on, on where I want to be pushing on the sales side.
35 00:05:04.620 ⇒ 00:05:05.500 Robert Tseng: So.
36 00:05:06.120 ⇒ 00:05:11.879 Uttam Kumaran: I also think like this is where you know. I think for both of us. That’s how we’ve always operated like
37 00:05:12.030 ⇒ 00:05:14.280 Uttam Kumaran: we push. And then it’s like
38 00:05:14.410 ⇒ 00:05:22.410 Uttam Kumaran: we take a breather. But that’s what I feel like having Connors. So I’m like holy shit. Someone every day is like waking up and like trying to sell.
39 00:05:23.040 ⇒ 00:05:27.610 Uttam Kumaran: which is helpful. It’s like there’s at least now some constant
40 00:05:27.750 ⇒ 00:05:35.029 Uttam Kumaran: sort of pressure. I do think that, you know he needs to be equipped with a lot more, which is like a lot of sort of what I was
41 00:05:35.640 ⇒ 00:05:36.300 Uttam Kumaran: getting at.
42 00:05:36.300 ⇒ 00:05:38.163 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And it does time. But
43 00:05:38.620 ⇒ 00:05:45.909 Robert Tseng: And I think the AI data stuff like, I, I do think, yeah, I mean, there, there is a you know, we’re we’re kind of like trying to draw.
44 00:05:46.410 ⇒ 00:05:52.609 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t really think we’re gonna agree on like what to where to draw the line of like, what like
45 00:05:52.880 ⇒ 00:05:58.337 Robert Tseng: there there is overlap. And but they’re also distinct, you know, like, it’s just kind of like, yeah, it’s like,
46 00:05:58.930 ⇒ 00:06:05.323 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think I just kind of shared in my mind, it was like, okay, like, it’s faster to get Connor to start selling the AI stuff.
47 00:06:06.780 ⇒ 00:06:23.200 Robert Tseng: you know. And yeah, less jargon. A lot easier to explain to a non technical person, you know, and like the use cases are are clear, like, they’re replacing particular workflows. The data stuff, you know it’s a lot hot, like a lot longer to return that value. And you you kind of
48 00:06:23.520 ⇒ 00:06:28.189 Robert Tseng: yeah, for whatever it is like there is, there is like this dance of like
49 00:06:28.420 ⇒ 00:06:43.089 Robert Tseng: scoping out very specific requirements like on the call, and be able to speak to those like that that, like requires a level of expertise that he may not have the AI stuff. He can come in a lot more prep to to go and and do that. So that’s kind of why I made that distinction.
50 00:06:43.250 ⇒ 00:07:06.630 Robert Tseng: And yeah, I mean on the way that we’re pming stuff like, I understand that you do the internal like Pm. Across all the rest of the problems. And you know, I’m like trying to say, like, you know, data. Pm, work is different. And I think it’s really not necessarily in the complexity of like the tasks themselves. But the complexity comes in like the fact that there are so many freaking stakeholders. Yeah, I’m like.
51 00:07:07.370 ⇒ 00:07:13.330 Robert Tseng: yeah, okay, I think the the benefit of the internal pm, is that you’re the stakeholder, you know. I’m like.
52 00:07:13.840 ⇒ 00:07:15.209 Robert Tseng: yeah. So see.
53 00:07:15.502 ⇒ 00:07:19.299 Uttam Kumaran: I agree with you in that point. But my point is that, like
54 00:07:19.590 ⇒ 00:07:24.230 Uttam Kumaran: I like any, all the Pm. Work that we’ve done for our clients. I feel like it’s actually
55 00:07:24.670 ⇒ 00:07:33.969 Uttam Kumaran: super like, I mean, again, like I was a Pm. For a while like the shit we’re doing for them for cool parts for all of our clients. It’s just you don’t need to be technical to go get
56 00:07:34.090 ⇒ 00:07:35.430 Uttam Kumaran: requirements.
57 00:07:35.430 ⇒ 00:07:35.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
58 00:07:35.840 ⇒ 00:07:38.749 Uttam Kumaran: Understand, like it’s kind of like sales
59 00:07:38.840 ⇒ 00:07:57.850 Uttam Kumaran: like even the sales people. They don’t really need to know what they’re selling the Pm. It’s like a little bit in that sort of genre where, like, you really don’t need to know. And the fact of the matter is the Pm. Function as a whole in most companies is that they don’t really even know the Pm. Is really just making sure the requirements are there. And then it’s like what requirements. Ideally.
60 00:07:57.940 ⇒ 00:08:17.990 Uttam Kumaran: that person understands also, like technically, what needs to happen and can fill in gaps. But for me, I’m like for me, the clear expectations is like if I go in, I need to. And because again, I was a Pm. And I worked. I’m like, there needs to be tickets. All the tickets need to have context. And this is where, like, if I’m if I play the engineering leader.
61 00:08:18.100 ⇒ 00:08:24.120 Uttam Kumaran: my job is gonna be to look and to say, are my engineers getting clear requirements. Yes or no.
62 00:08:24.310 ⇒ 00:08:34.310 Uttam Kumaran: If it’s no, then I would be like, we’re not gonna work on this right. And that’s typically the discourse. The problem is is like, I’m if I play both sides, then I’m like.
63 00:08:34.679 ⇒ 00:08:36.720 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna fill in the gaps
64 00:08:36.909 ⇒ 00:08:39.540 Uttam Kumaran: as like needed to get the work done.
65 00:08:39.780 ⇒ 00:08:42.000 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, on the Pm. Side.
66 00:08:43.049 ⇒ 00:08:44.980 Uttam Kumaran: I actually don’t think it’s that hard.
67 00:08:45.230 ⇒ 00:08:51.040 Uttam Kumaran: the stuff we’re asking for across pool parts eaten. But I do think we just need to set
68 00:08:51.970 ⇒ 00:08:58.040 Uttam Kumaran: expectations really clear, and then have like those points of accountability. Because, yeah, you know.
69 00:09:03.360 ⇒ 00:09:11.459 Robert Tseng: So I mean, what do you? What do you think that accountability would look like? I mean, I get that. You know, we set some initial planning, you know, December. And
70 00:09:11.640 ⇒ 00:09:17.700 Robert Tseng: and I threw out some okrs and some structure. But yeah, I agree, we haven’t been like kind of keeping tabs on that. And
71 00:09:18.930 ⇒ 00:09:29.010 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, it’s just like, so I mean, here’s here’s the thing there’s gonna have. There’s gonna be multiple conversations around a client, right? If I was. We’re gonna have stuff where we talk internally as like an entire client team.
72 00:09:29.110 ⇒ 00:09:42.599 Uttam Kumaran: There’s gonna be stuff where maybe you Nico, talk to the client and get requirements. And there’s gonna be me and the engineers being like, can we execute on these? And I’m basically looking at, how fast are they doing that, and how to unblock their road.
73 00:09:42.780 ⇒ 00:09:44.000 Uttam Kumaran: Basically where they are.
74 00:09:44.160 ⇒ 00:10:08.009 Uttam Kumaran: I think talking to the client is fine, and I’m looking at what everybody’s working on and sort of poking the engineers on like, where is this? Where is this? But if the engineers don’t have the right requirements, I can’t even I can’t hold them accountable on anything, because it’s they’re kind of screwed from the start. So that’s where I think a lot of the issues are one for me. I’m never gonna stop being like.
75 00:10:08.310 ⇒ 00:10:12.570 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, again, I want to talk super specific. I’m never gonna stop being like all the tickets need.
76 00:10:13.170 ⇒ 00:10:14.719 Uttam Kumaran: They need to be fleshed out
77 00:10:15.050 ⇒ 00:10:24.510 Uttam Kumaran: right. And the the problem is is like, I’m not a good person to say that’s not possible, because I will go do that, and like. I’ll go right. All the tickets I’ve done. I I could go do that. That’s why for me.
78 00:10:25.120 ⇒ 00:10:41.620 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, Look if we’re not finding it. I’ll just go. Pm, I’ll go do the Pm. Stuff so I don’t. I don’t want it to be like it’s not working because I’m like, I know. I see exactly why it’s not working. We’re not getting. We don’t have requirements. All these tickets. We didn’t get the due dates from the engineers. No one asked the engineer, how long is this gonna take?
79 00:10:41.930 ⇒ 00:11:00.509 Uttam Kumaran: Like I’m not getting it. We’re not. We don’t mean you. And then that bubbles up to me. And you being like, are we even on track every day? Yeah, we solve that by the classic way of solving, that is, give me the daily update, right? Like that’s not I. I agree that we could do that. But even I’m like, I don’t.
80 00:11:00.960 ⇒ 00:11:09.900 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to do that because I’m like, look at the board. That’s the update we and you could look at the board and be like, is this positive or negative? Right? Yeah, daily update is more of like a.
81 00:11:10.290 ⇒ 00:11:26.789 Uttam Kumaran: You can’t even do the tickets. So I want you to just like I want you to just give an update every day like a robot. That’s what I think. Like, I was just thinking, today, I’m like we should. We should think about how to avoid that, because it’s not really a daily update we’re looking for. We’re just looking for the confidence.
82 00:11:26.900 ⇒ 00:11:27.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
83 00:11:29.140 ⇒ 00:11:41.229 Uttam Kumaran: Alright. And so this is where I think one is. I think we should 1st like I’ve seen Nico do all these things. I’m of course I’ll I’ll accept that. He’s been working for us. I’m a little bit biased. I’ve seen him do all this work.
84 00:11:41.330 ⇒ 00:11:43.390 Uttam Kumaran: The thing is is that I think
85 00:11:43.550 ⇒ 00:11:45.740 Uttam Kumaran: he needs a lot of support from you
86 00:11:45.930 ⇒ 00:11:58.489 Uttam Kumaran: in one way or another, or another. That’s distinct from those 2 groups which is like distinct from like being in client meetings and distinct from like the engineering work. I think something around like
87 00:11:59.020 ⇒ 00:12:04.919 Uttam Kumaran: across. And this is across all of our clients right? Same thing on the sales side. I think it’s across all sales
88 00:12:05.431 ⇒ 00:12:14.640 Uttam Kumaran: like, how are we doing things right? Because that’s that’s I think, the biggest gap I’m I’m sort of trying to address as a whole is like
89 00:12:15.050 ⇒ 00:12:23.570 Uttam Kumaran: we have sales. I know that there’s AI sales, but Connor is gonna sell everything we have to sell right? And so I kind of was
90 00:12:23.710 ⇒ 00:12:33.079 Uttam Kumaran: hoping that you’re like cool. I see sales holistically and like we’re sell whatever we’re selling. We’re selling. Maybe I’m the subject matter expert on the AI side.
91 00:12:33.640 ⇒ 00:12:34.480 Uttam Kumaran: like.
92 00:12:34.660 ⇒ 00:12:39.030 Uttam Kumaran: I want to get out of that, because then I’m not. I’m gonna the data stuff is gonna die.
93 00:12:39.220 ⇒ 00:12:42.209 Uttam Kumaran: you know. So that’s sort of where my mindset.
94 00:12:43.990 ⇒ 00:12:49.309 Robert Tseng: I mean, I feel like it’s not like I haven’t been thinking about AI like I gave him the Cvre. I believe, like.
95 00:12:49.310 ⇒ 00:12:50.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. By the way, yeah.
96 00:12:50.210 ⇒ 00:12:59.999 Robert Tseng: My way, I’m like, okay, well, yeah, I mean, I understand. Like, I understand enoughlistically on, like, where to where to put things. But yeah, I think for me, like the the sales
97 00:13:00.950 ⇒ 00:13:16.670 Robert Tseng: I yeah, I mean, the sales and marketing, I think, are are kind of like linked at this point. Right. We have. I mean the sales work like the discovery and kind of the everything post post discovery we need to be involved in still and but then, before that.
98 00:13:17.000 ⇒ 00:13:32.874 Robert Tseng: on the when we’re scheduling outbound, when we’re like doing our when we’re trying to figure out like how to how to build like, yeah, the the strategy behind the campaigns themselves. Like, I want to get that right again. Because I want, I want that to be to be going. Okay?
99 00:13:33.350 ⇒ 00:13:41.829 Robert Tseng: yeah. So yeah, I mean, I, I like to me, that’s when I talk about like sales leadership and what I want to own, like, I want to own that
100 00:13:42.110 ⇒ 00:13:58.459 Robert Tseng: after that, like, I feel like everything is still like going to be shared between us, like we have those daily, those daily check-ins like everything is, gonna be multi touch. Maybe we’ll get to a point where it’s like, Okay, great. This lead clearly. Audit, whatever you know, Connor, go sell like, you know, we don’t, and we don’t need to touch it.
101 00:13:58.823 ⇒ 00:14:03.300 Robert Tseng: After that 1st call he brings back context, and we can decide if we want to do a follow up.
102 00:14:03.852 ⇒ 00:14:07.729 Robert Tseng: But yeah, we’re we’re all yeah. But for for, like the
103 00:14:07.750 ⇒ 00:14:37.659 Robert Tseng: anything that’s, you know, 15 K, and up like we’re we’re we’re on, we’re on top of it. And we’re we’re we’ve been. We’ve been working on those proposals, sending them out and there’s some like stuff that we can do to like speed up that motion? It took us a while to flush out. What does that 25 KA month offering look like? What is that like full data? So I think we’re gonna get faster at that. But yeah, now, I’m kind of at a place where, yeah, we need to fill the lead pipeline again. We see things dropping off. And yeah, for me. It’s like in December. I was like
104 00:14:37.920 ⇒ 00:14:41.230 Robert Tseng: like shooting messages like crazy trying to hit people up.
105 00:14:41.721 ⇒ 00:14:45.310 Robert Tseng: And yeah, like, I could go back to that when I have more time. But I also.
106 00:14:45.310 ⇒ 00:15:02.320 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess that’s what I’m saying. Is that like that’s something that I think you should just do alongside Connor and then hand it off to him like, that’s the sort of like sales leadership that dude. You are really really great at like. I’m not good at that, and if he leans on me. It’s not gonna it’s not gonna be great, because I’m not like
107 00:15:02.380 ⇒ 00:15:19.869 Uttam Kumaran: this is not my strong suit. You’re like, really, really good at this and thinking through strategically how to hit these guys and the motion of going out and building that momentum. That’s something that he needs to learn from you right, and that’s what I’m saying. More is like that sort of like stuff.
108 00:15:20.090 ⇒ 00:15:34.499 Uttam Kumaran: Bring him alongside with you and and have him do that, because if he learns it from me again. My mind one, I think, on the marketing side we haven’t done. We really stopped a lot of stuff. We’re doing some stuff on the content side. But really, really low.
109 00:15:34.610 ⇒ 00:15:45.130 Uttam Kumaran: I would say for me, the biggest thing is, one is what we talked about is like, I wanna make sure all of the client work on the from the engineering perspective is fulfilled. Any requirements that come
110 00:15:45.290 ⇒ 00:15:50.249 Uttam Kumaran: from the Pm. Team get fulfilled on time and our quality, right? And
111 00:15:50.460 ⇒ 00:15:54.239 Uttam Kumaran: and that sort of stuff is where I’m like that. If that’s the priority, then
112 00:15:54.440 ⇒ 00:16:10.559 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, Cause Connor’s asking questions like, Okay, what are this like? What are what are in all the services? How should we talk to this? How do I approach this person like, what’s the email? I should write those sorts of things. I’m like dude. You gotta go talk to Rob, because he has all this nailed, and you can do it like robot for me. I spent a lot of time
113 00:16:10.720 ⇒ 00:16:16.729 Uttam Kumaran: like I’m waste. I waste time. It’s just not where I’m most efficient. So that’s like, that’s what I’m thinking more about.
114 00:16:17.130 ⇒ 00:16:20.269 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no. I I think that’s a good. Yeah, we we should.
115 00:16:20.270 ⇒ 00:16:25.490 Uttam Kumaran: He’s a sponge like he will sit and watch and and learn from me, and those are the things where it’s like.
116 00:16:26.240 ⇒ 00:16:34.680 Uttam Kumaran: Again. If you go. If you if you do anything you’re doing on the sales side, just bring him alongside you. He’ll absorb that because I’m not gonna be able to give him that like.
117 00:16:35.910 ⇒ 00:16:38.759 Uttam Kumaran: you know, as efficiently right. Also, like
118 00:16:39.220 ⇒ 00:16:58.269 Uttam Kumaran: your your level of excellence on the sales side is what’s gonna guide the entire sales org right? And that’s why bringing me in to close deals and stuff that’s totally fine. But these nitty, gritty things about like actually the day to day execution like, think about it. We have someone who can spend 8 HA day
119 00:16:58.920 ⇒ 00:17:01.300 Uttam Kumaran: doing everything.
120 00:17:01.810 ⇒ 00:17:02.989 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like
121 00:17:03.290 ⇒ 00:17:07.759 Uttam Kumaran: I want him to spend. I want him to literally be on the calls every minute of the day.
122 00:17:07.920 ⇒ 00:17:10.960 Uttam Kumaran: you know. So how far are we from that right.
123 00:17:10.960 ⇒ 00:17:13.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay.
124 00:17:14.950 ⇒ 00:17:18.389 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s what I’m thinking on the sales side. And look, I think
125 00:17:19.040 ⇒ 00:17:35.869 Uttam Kumaran: I I think, look, I think there’s definitely we have both have expertise technically on the services side, but consider it just, sales broadly and consider just bringing leads in broadly and matching them to services depending on the service, I told him. My goal, honestly is like as a lot of that should hopefully be in
126 00:17:36.060 ⇒ 00:17:40.789 Uttam Kumaran: the service page about what the talk track is, how to identify the problem. Put them in the right bucket.
127 00:17:41.190 ⇒ 00:17:50.199 Uttam Kumaran: And we’ll get that over time. But the small things I think you could totally push off to him on the Pm. Side. I think we just need to be really clear with, like what our
128 00:17:50.600 ⇒ 00:18:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: expectations are from from my side. If I look and I see tickets, for as let for me, I’m gonna speak from the engineering leadership side. I’m
129 00:18:00.940 ⇒ 00:18:10.939 Uttam Kumaran: like, if I was, if I was actually in a company. I would be in our like leadership meeting, and I would just say out loud, my team is not taking tickets that aren’t fully fleshed out
130 00:18:11.290 ⇒ 00:18:15.740 Uttam Kumaran: right. If you go to the AI Board, all the AI tickets are all fleshed out
131 00:18:15.950 ⇒ 00:18:22.920 Uttam Kumaran: right and like, and that’s why. For me, it’s really easy to say, because I know exactly. I could go and flush all those tickets on 3 h.
132 00:18:23.310 ⇒ 00:18:26.731 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe people don’t want to hear that right, and I don’t want to do that
133 00:18:27.490 ⇒ 00:18:31.419 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll do that. I can call everybody needed, and I’ll wrap this whole thing up.
134 00:18:31.590 ⇒ 00:18:40.090 Uttam Kumaran: But this is what I want to set as the expectations, and maybe it is being, and this is where there may be some healthy back and forth. But I think, having both of us on either side of the fence
135 00:18:40.280 ⇒ 00:18:41.420 Uttam Kumaran: helps there
136 00:18:41.640 ⇒ 00:18:47.160 Uttam Kumaran: right? Because if I look, I’m gonna look at 3 tickets like for pool parts. There’s a couple of tickets for pies.
137 00:18:47.730 ⇒ 00:19:05.649 Uttam Kumaran: I could. I could say, there’s no thing in tickets, but then I can ping pies and be like, Yo, can you go figure it out? Yeah, maybe he does figure it out, but honestly, most likely he’ll get like 50% right and probably love instead. I’m like Nico, fill the tickets out of everything. Send them to me to prove, and then it’ll go to pies. Will we lose a couple of days.
138 00:19:06.000 ⇒ 00:19:11.380 Uttam Kumaran: maybe, is the quality of work and the amount of iterations we’re gonna have to do way less.
139 00:19:11.690 ⇒ 00:19:13.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. So that’s what I like.
140 00:19:14.180 ⇒ 00:19:20.650 Uttam Kumaran: But when I kick that back to Nico, like what I want to know that there. He has a process to do that and like this, where also, like.
141 00:19:20.770 ⇒ 00:19:30.240 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to go. I want, if you’re like, well, I’m gonna govern. And I’m gonna be the judgment on the Pm. Or then I’m gonna I’m gonna get out of it. And I’m just gonna give feedback as like
142 00:19:30.350 ⇒ 00:19:31.989 Uttam Kumaran: the downstream and be like
143 00:19:32.120 ⇒ 00:19:45.110 Uttam Kumaran: you make the decision because I’m I’m not here to defend people. If they’re like they’re doing the work or not. I want you to set the level and be like this is the expectation. My only fear is that I don’t. I don’t know if we we did that
144 00:19:48.420 ⇒ 00:19:54.640 Uttam Kumaran: know I know you. I know you have. You have the other side, but like that’s sort of like what I was thinking.
145 00:19:55.020 ⇒ 00:20:18.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I mean, I filling out tickets is hard. I get it like, I mean, I’ve been every day I wake up. I have like 15 this messages from me. And they’re just like ping me about a bunch of random things. I’m going updating the tickets on the analytics side like I and I feel like analytics. Tickets are are kind are, I mean, I feel them as different than the the data engineering stuff like, maybe that’s a bit more straightforward to you. But for us it’s like.
146 00:20:18.920 ⇒ 00:20:28.960 Robert Tseng: yeah. Someone’s asking for this metric to be added. But I have to figure out like, why, my, what is that? And I mean, there’s like all this context that we have to gather and like the tickets go through iterations as well. And so
147 00:20:29.757 ⇒ 00:20:37.419 Robert Tseng: yeah, like a, just they, they can change like they can change like that like.
148 00:20:37.420 ⇒ 00:20:41.239 Uttam Kumaran: Totally, I mean. But this is Pm, work like this is what I’m saying, like, none of like that’s
149 00:20:41.560 ⇒ 00:21:07.430 Uttam Kumaran: that’s sort of what it is you write what you know down you then work with the end. You then let’s see, this is what should happen. If it’s let’s say it’s a ticket to Luke for some ae work a week before it gets into the pipe someone should be like, Hey, Luke, this is what all the details have got. Can you give this a once over and just is this enough for you or that should get sent to me? Because in 30 seconds I’ll be like this is enough or not, and then it should go back to go find out more answers right? Like that process isn’t happening.
150 00:21:09.270 ⇒ 00:21:10.520 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And it’s like
151 00:21:10.880 ⇒ 00:21:36.979 Uttam Kumaran: it, for I don’t know for me like I just was. Pm. For so long. I’m like, I’m like, fuck it like I can get get what you know, and then it’s not like you need to have everything down. But it’s also like, get it 80% of the way there. But that’s the sort of stuff that you should just pass Nico into, or do it alongside him until he basically gets the hang, and then he can sort of go on, but that’s my you’re in it. So I don’t want to say what’s actually happening. But.
152 00:21:37.410 ⇒ 00:21:38.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
153 00:21:39.450 ⇒ 00:21:46.809 Uttam Kumaran: It’s hard, because for Eden I know you also came in as sort of like the sole person that we brought us in, but I don’t know. You have to find some way to get out of that
154 00:21:50.200 ⇒ 00:21:51.000 Uttam Kumaran: like.
155 00:21:51.300 ⇒ 00:21:53.980 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, I think we are. We’ve been. We’ve been taking steps towards that. I’m not spending
156 00:21:54.560 ⇒ 00:22:09.880 Robert Tseng: this week, you know, having that brain. That brain forward, eating channel boom. Set the expectations more clearly. I’m not doing the strategy stuff right now. But now I’m now I’m really just functioning as the Pm. Because, like, okay, the strategy they’re bought into it. We know how to prioritize things like.
157 00:22:10.050 ⇒ 00:22:24.779 Robert Tseng: I don’t expect Nico to know how to prioritize the tickets. I just want to be like, okay. This request came in Nico. Go talk to that person, flush that flush that one out. That’s where I think you can be, and I still need to be the one who’s like that. First, st that 1st line where people come to me with like
158 00:22:24.880 ⇒ 00:22:36.399 Robert Tseng: help. Help. This is urgent, but I kind of like assess whether or not it’s urgent. And then I’m assigning I’m trying to get. Yeah, I’m trying to send Nico to go and and gather the requirements on the ones that I think are important. So
159 00:22:37.340 ⇒ 00:22:41.910 Robert Tseng: yeah, that’s kind of how I feel like things are are gonna run for a couple of weeks.
160 00:22:42.890 ⇒ 00:22:43.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah
161 00:22:44.000 ⇒ 00:22:54.350 Robert Tseng: month one. I’d love to be able to show. Show them like, Hey, look! This is all the things we knocked out great boom like we we need. You don’t feel like we’re doing like, you know, like this, is we already maxed out.
162 00:22:54.350 ⇒ 00:22:56.759 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly, exactly, totally correct.
163 00:22:56.990 ⇒ 00:22:57.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
164 00:22:57.530 ⇒ 00:23:02.029 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m this. I’m kind of the same way on the pool part side like, but the same time
165 00:23:02.450 ⇒ 00:23:10.939 Uttam Kumaran: that’s not the way this should be like, I’m ready to get out of that client like I’m ready for Nico to go own those relationships. But this is where it’s like
166 00:23:11.360 ⇒ 00:23:16.400 Uttam Kumaran: I. Wanna, I wanna talk to Grace about this, too, and how she sees this because
167 00:23:16.800 ⇒ 00:23:18.910 Uttam Kumaran: we’re in unique spots. But like.
168 00:23:19.620 ⇒ 00:23:33.509 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to ask like, I want a backlog of work to get built out, and I want to run the engineering work. Whether this is possible on what timeline is possible, who needs to do it and like it coming out fully baked.
169 00:23:33.790 ⇒ 00:23:35.449 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Yeah.
170 00:23:37.220 ⇒ 00:23:42.190 Uttam Kumaran: And like, I, yeah, I wanna have I want and like, but this is where it’s like for me on the Pm. Side.
171 00:23:43.510 ⇒ 00:23:49.500 Uttam Kumaran: If there’s no tickets, and the tickets aren’t fleshed out, then we’re dead. Doa so so like
172 00:23:51.930 ⇒ 00:23:57.300 Uttam Kumaran: on the pool part side that’s happening a little bit. But but also this is where I also want to make sure that
173 00:23:57.700 ⇒ 00:23:58.970 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not just like
174 00:23:59.150 ⇒ 00:24:09.670 Uttam Kumaran: being like, go do this I want. Pm, is only team where there’s like like one person really right or like, it’s me, you and him. But then me and you are like we’re on every team.
175 00:24:09.670 ⇒ 00:24:10.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
176 00:24:10.830 ⇒ 00:24:14.769 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t know it kind of again. I think there’s needs to be some sort of like
177 00:24:15.040 ⇒ 00:24:21.360 Uttam Kumaran: for you on sales and Pm, just to bring these guys and then just like, teach them how to fish on this stuff
178 00:24:21.700 ⇒ 00:24:23.189 Uttam Kumaran: as much as possible.
179 00:24:27.820 ⇒ 00:24:31.059 Uttam Kumaran: because we’re not gonna be because the next client’s gonna be just like this.
180 00:24:33.060 ⇒ 00:24:33.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
181 00:24:33.900 ⇒ 00:24:39.679 Robert Tseng: I think what I’m gonna do is I have to jump to let me let me actually let me see if it’s see if they’re gonna
182 00:24:40.540 ⇒ 00:24:42.010 Robert Tseng: da- da-da.
183 00:24:44.820 ⇒ 00:24:47.119 Robert Tseng: My didn’t even get brought into.
184 00:24:47.440 ⇒ 00:24:49.059 Robert Tseng: Okay, I don’t think they brought me in.
185 00:24:49.880 ⇒ 00:24:50.989 Robert Tseng: Okay, we did.
186 00:24:51.220 ⇒ 00:24:53.410 Robert Tseng: 10 am, okay.
187 00:24:55.580 ⇒ 00:24:57.579 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So on the sales side.
188 00:24:59.110 ⇒ 00:25:05.979 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, I mean, today, I’m setting up a afternoon. I want to get this strategy kind of thing done. I’m gonna try. And I’m gonna bring in.
189 00:25:06.520 ⇒ 00:25:07.840 Robert Tseng: I’m gonna get
190 00:25:08.880 ⇒ 00:25:19.109 Robert Tseng: Connor to. Yeah, like I’ll just start with twice a week. He’ll just be. I’ll just like, have him join me while I’m going through like sales stuff, and we can.
191 00:25:19.110 ⇒ 00:25:20.729 Uttam Kumaran: Get a lot from it for sure.
192 00:25:20.730 ⇒ 00:25:23.379 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So I’m just like.
193 00:25:23.380 ⇒ 00:25:26.759 Uttam Kumaran: Explaining your process, too. I think you’ll find it to be extremely helpful. So.
194 00:25:27.050 ⇒ 00:25:34.639 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I’ll do that. And then, yeah, on the Eden side, like, I need, I need more check Ins with Nico. So
195 00:25:35.300 ⇒ 00:25:40.520 Robert Tseng: or just not even just Eden. I’ll just do. Pm. Check ins with with Nico every day. I think that’s kind of what I need to do for now.
196 00:25:42.130 ⇒ 00:25:42.755 Robert Tseng: And
197 00:25:45.230 ⇒ 00:25:50.909 Robert Tseng: yeah. So I need to figure out where I’m gonna carve that time out for for those. But I think that’s that’s kind of the next.
198 00:25:52.040 ⇒ 00:25:59.120 Uttam Kumaran: Find out where you’re spending any time on engineering work or analytics work and loop me in, and I’ll take on
199 00:25:59.520 ⇒ 00:26:09.490 Uttam Kumaran: whether it’s stuff from Sahana, or stuff like anything that gets assigned from you guys. Just consider executed. So leave a lot of that
200 00:26:09.690 ⇒ 00:26:15.359 Uttam Kumaran: to me. And again, even if we don’t. If we even if we don’t get to the campaigns
201 00:26:15.460 ⇒ 00:26:17.730 Uttam Kumaran: asap, I think
202 00:26:18.400 ⇒ 00:26:26.889 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll leveling Connor up, especially on the sales side. We’ll take care of some of the lowest hanging stuff that we’re probably losing a lot of time on context wise.
203 00:26:27.050 ⇒ 00:26:32.190 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like he’ll absorb everything you say, like he’s already moving really, really fast.
204 00:26:32.700 ⇒ 00:26:44.630 Uttam Kumaran: The data stuff is is definitely a different product. And the AI stuff, of course, I think, is more intuitive to sell because you’re basically selling the work we do. But dude, I don’t like
205 00:26:44.810 ⇒ 00:26:49.229 Uttam Kumaran: looking left and right at like the best salespeople I know. They don’t even know it, like
206 00:26:49.960 ⇒ 00:26:53.635 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think that I think we can get them there.
207 00:26:55.030 ⇒ 00:27:06.640 Uttam Kumaran: at least to take on the lowest stuff. So yeah, I mean, I think this is, I think this is really good, and let’s I think I want to lean on Grace on how to do the Pm. Stuff more broadly and kind of learn from her on this stuff, too. So.
208 00:27:06.850 ⇒ 00:27:15.895 Robert Tseng: Yeah, let’s let’s get her the stuff over ideally today. Give her a couple of days to look. I mean, she’ll I’m seeing she’ll give feedback immediately, and we’ll we’ll have a really productive call on Friday.
209 00:27:16.714 ⇒ 00:27:20.310 Robert Tseng: But yeah, so I think that’s that’s definitely something we should try to get to her.
210 00:27:20.460 ⇒ 00:27:21.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
211 00:27:22.100 ⇒ 00:27:29.750 Uttam Kumaran: okay, anything, anything on the Eden engineering side? Just ping me? I’ll keep hounding these guys and try to get try to call both.
212 00:27:29.920 ⇒ 00:27:31.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah.
213 00:27:31.810 ⇒ 00:27:38.000 Robert Tseng: I got, I got bigquery access or like, yeah, we’re admin there, I’m gonna jump to this call now. But yeah, okay.
214 00:27:38.000 ⇒ 00:27:39.739 Uttam Kumaran: Good job, bye.