Meeting Title: Uttam <> Patrik Date: 2024-10-24 Meeting participants: Patrik, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:04:35.300 ⇒ 00:04:36.450 Uttam Kumaran: Hello, sir!
2 00:04:37.050 ⇒ 00:04:38.060 Patrik: Kahoo.
3 00:04:40.180 ⇒ 00:04:41.930 Patrik: Nothing much. What’s going on.
4 00:04:42.510 ⇒ 00:04:43.980 Uttam Kumaran: The hair’s coming out.
5 00:04:44.250 ⇒ 00:04:46.000 Patrik: Dude. It’s so long.
6 00:04:46.000 ⇒ 00:04:50.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I know it’s crazy. It’s basically Afro at this point.
7 00:04:50.628 ⇒ 00:04:55.411 Patrik: I I have to put like a ton of gel in. Otherwise it’s just like.
8 00:04:57.640 ⇒ 00:04:59.060 Uttam Kumaran: How’s life?
9 00:04:59.810 ⇒ 00:05:01.935 Patrik: It’s good, it’s good. We
10 00:05:03.310 ⇒ 00:05:07.630 Patrik: we live to see another day at Wild and
11 00:05:09.840 ⇒ 00:05:13.830 Patrik: The wedding is burning a hole in my pocket, so.
12 00:05:15.200 ⇒ 00:05:23.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s like to. Yeah, I’m very happy, like maintaining a girlfriend and doing this is hard enough.
13 00:05:25.460 ⇒ 00:05:30.770 Uttam Kumaran: Hardest thing ever. But I think, yeah, I can only imagine.
14 00:05:30.770 ⇒ 00:05:33.561 Patrik: This is just like the perfect storm.
15 00:05:33.960 ⇒ 00:05:36.559 Uttam Kumaran: Literally, it’s a perfect explorer.
16 00:05:36.962 ⇒ 00:05:43.809 Patrik: I don’t know. I don’t know how I ended up here, but I’m here. So yeah.
17 00:05:46.440 ⇒ 00:05:48.556 Patrik: Your post was pretty funny
18 00:05:48.980 ⇒ 00:05:50.319 Uttam Kumaran: I know I said Dude. I literally.
19 00:05:50.320 ⇒ 00:05:51.000 Patrik: It’s like.
20 00:05:51.000 ⇒ 00:05:54.980 Uttam Kumaran: Tagging, you guys. But I just quickly needed to write something and like, move on to something.
21 00:05:54.980 ⇒ 00:05:55.620 Patrik: Yeah.
22 00:05:55.862 ⇒ 00:05:59.259 Uttam Kumaran: But I mean dude like a lot of it. I told Clint when they
23 00:05:59.840 ⇒ 00:06:03.590 Uttam Kumaran: before they bought that company when they bought that company
24 00:06:03.990 ⇒ 00:06:10.069 Uttam Kumaran: after they bought that like, they’re gonna just put a bunch of money behind that clean room idea. And that’s
25 00:06:10.470 ⇒ 00:06:12.330 Uttam Kumaran: for anybody in the clean room
26 00:06:12.780 ⇒ 00:06:17.349 Uttam Kumaran: thing, because they’re gonna spend marketing dollars educating people. So I think it’s
27 00:06:17.500 ⇒ 00:06:18.860 Uttam Kumaran: hopefully positive.
28 00:06:20.020 ⇒ 00:06:20.640 Patrik: Yeah.
29 00:06:21.680 ⇒ 00:06:27.069 Patrik: yeah, exactly. I mean, like this whole like, data sharing data. Collaboration
30 00:06:27.550 ⇒ 00:06:32.039 Patrik: kind of movement is is what I’m seeing as well. And that’s like.
31 00:06:32.400 ⇒ 00:06:37.999 Patrik: at least with this whole like data marketplace that we’re building. That’s the whole like problem we’re trying to solve.
32 00:06:38.260 ⇒ 00:06:43.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I I think from a marketing standpoint, like hooking onto like whatever
33 00:06:43.930 ⇒ 00:06:47.539 Uttam Kumaran: they’re saying, and like trying to spin that your way.
34 00:06:48.930 ⇒ 00:07:06.799 Uttam Kumaran: You totally should, because I think they’re spending a lot of money educating, and I like the way they I mean, it seemed cool the way they it was basically like, what else is there to do in marketing? Like, I think companies every year, they basically run out of ideas. Because, you know, all these people are so dumb. All they do is spend money on ads, and then kind of wait and sit around.
35 00:07:06.800 ⇒ 00:07:08.019 Patrik: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36 00:07:08.020 ⇒ 00:07:11.770 Uttam Kumaran: Smart ones are have always done like you do partnerships.
37 00:07:11.780 ⇒ 00:07:26.170 Uttam Kumaran: You do these like interesting things, but you can never measure. And now, like the ad platforms are getting better helping you. For example, take all your pos data, put it in Google, like, I think, last year, the year before Google allowed you to have like offline.
38 00:07:26.380 ⇒ 00:07:28.570 Uttam Kumaran: like offline. Pixel kind of thing.
39 00:07:29.020 ⇒ 00:07:29.430 Patrik: Yeah.
40 00:07:29.865 ⇒ 00:07:30.300 Uttam Kumaran: Am.
41 00:07:30.550 ⇒ 00:07:39.429 Uttam Kumaran: So they’re all heading that way. And then for collaboration brands, which I think because of tick tock on a lot of stuff. It’s super big, like they want to see like
42 00:07:39.520 ⇒ 00:07:52.310 Uttam Kumaran: they want to see a clothing brand collaborate with like a beverage, and they do some big activation before they would do it, but they would just kind of spray and pray know that there’s actually like
43 00:07:52.540 ⇒ 00:07:58.439 Uttam Kumaran: a customer subset that’s there. And then maybe even like send that directly to them. So I do think there’s a lot.
44 00:07:58.440 ⇒ 00:07:59.090 Patrik: Yeah.
45 00:07:59.090 ⇒ 00:08:00.260 Uttam Kumaran: There, and then you can be a little.
46 00:08:00.260 ⇒ 00:08:05.839 Patrik: More targeted, and you can, and you should be able to understand what the fuck’s going on.
47 00:08:05.860 ⇒ 00:08:10.649 Uttam Kumaran: And I think there’s still a lot to be done. I think Clint, me and Clint talked about about the retail networks
48 00:08:10.810 ⇒ 00:08:11.480 Uttam Kumaran: like doing.
49 00:08:11.480 ⇒ 00:08:13.239 Patrik: Oh, yeah, the retail media networks. Yeah.
50 00:08:13.240 ⇒ 00:08:14.930 Uttam Kumaran: Still a shit load of stuff. There.
51 00:08:14.930 ⇒ 00:08:23.879 Patrik: We just we just got a a demo from a retail media network agency, who essentially like, sets up and runs
52 00:08:24.290 ⇒ 00:08:26.869 Patrik: like retailers, radio networks.
53 00:08:26.870 ⇒ 00:08:27.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
54 00:08:27.470 ⇒ 00:08:29.890 Patrik: And they have this app called plan apps.
55 00:08:30.040 ⇒ 00:08:33.490 Patrik: And they basically like demoed it for us. And
56 00:08:34.190 ⇒ 00:08:37.040 Patrik: it was crazy. And also like
57 00:08:37.940 ⇒ 00:08:42.230 Patrik: it was kind of like you had to take a lot of the numbers as face value, face value.
58 00:08:42.380 ⇒ 00:08:47.799 Patrik: cause. It was like your your aisle fin that has like this ad on it
59 00:08:48.160 ⇒ 00:09:02.249 Patrik: gets like this, many impressions. And I was like, Well, where the fuck is that coming from? And she’s like she was like, oh, yeah, we like come up with an estimate based off of the number of transactions that happen in that
60 00:09:02.280 ⇒ 00:09:03.939 Patrik: like on that aisle.
61 00:09:04.700 ⇒ 00:09:09.439 Patrik: And I was like, alright. Well, that’s I mean, sure. Yeah.
62 00:09:09.440 ⇒ 00:09:12.060 Uttam Kumaran: This is what I’m saying is that in marketing it’s like
63 00:09:12.630 ⇒ 00:09:15.880 Uttam Kumaran: the shit never lines up, the numbers never add up.
64 00:09:16.300 ⇒ 00:09:20.399 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s kind of just like, Do you? Are you like directionally solid?
65 00:09:20.640 ⇒ 00:09:21.345 Uttam Kumaran: And
66 00:09:22.710 ⇒ 00:09:24.440 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s the marketers
67 00:09:24.760 ⇒ 00:09:28.030 Uttam Kumaran: want to spend money because they’re like they’re basically like the military.
68 00:09:28.470 ⇒ 00:09:31.749 Uttam Kumaran: The defense contractors in that analogy like
69 00:09:31.820 ⇒ 00:09:33.749 Uttam Kumaran: or Google and Facebook.
70 00:09:34.200 ⇒ 00:09:37.470 Uttam Kumaran: And then there’s basically like this, weapons, brokers that like.
71 00:09:37.750 ⇒ 00:09:39.340 Uttam Kumaran: take a pitch off and then, like.
72 00:09:39.340 ⇒ 00:09:40.340 Patrik: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
73 00:09:40.340 ⇒ 00:09:43.859 Uttam Kumaran: Here you go! Here you go. I don’t know. That’s for me like it’s always been like that.
74 00:09:44.720 ⇒ 00:09:47.310 Uttam Kumaran: The marketers they always want more budgets.
75 00:09:49.200 ⇒ 00:09:50.529 Uttam Kumaran: because of ego.
76 00:09:50.650 ⇒ 00:10:01.699 Uttam Kumaran: And then the the spend with us, like, Oh, home depot is like, Yeah, we can run ads all over the you can run ads on like our self checkout. There’s millions of people that look at our self checkout.
77 00:10:01.932 ⇒ 00:10:02.859 Patrik: But I’ve never even.
78 00:10:02.860 ⇒ 00:10:03.400 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
79 00:10:03.400 ⇒ 00:10:05.080 Patrik: They just make that shit up. Bro.
80 00:10:05.080 ⇒ 00:10:07.979 Uttam Kumaran: How do? How can you measure how like
81 00:10:08.150 ⇒ 00:10:12.849 Uttam Kumaran: like an end card is doing anything? And maybe there’s a creative solution.
82 00:10:12.900 ⇒ 00:10:14.650 Uttam Kumaran: But like, yeah.
83 00:10:14.650 ⇒ 00:10:25.039 Patrik: No, I mean, that was that was like flow code. And that was some of these other products. But they, like you saw the funnel, like the numbers from the funnel.
84 00:10:25.040 ⇒ 00:10:25.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
85 00:10:25.420 ⇒ 00:10:27.329 Patrik: Metric. It’s like.
86 00:10:28.330 ⇒ 00:10:31.155 Patrik: by the time you get
87 00:10:32.020 ⇒ 00:10:35.220 Patrik: does someone actually like scanning the thing
88 00:10:35.270 ⇒ 00:10:37.940 Patrik: you’re already at, like 1% of like.
89 00:10:37.940 ⇒ 00:10:38.369 Uttam Kumaran: For sure.
90 00:10:38.370 ⇒ 00:10:42.660 Patrik: People, cause they’re they’re the super users, the the like high, intent users.
91 00:10:42.660 ⇒ 00:10:43.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
92 00:10:43.310 ⇒ 00:10:44.320 Patrik: And then
93 00:10:44.350 ⇒ 00:10:48.600 Patrik: and then, if the objective is to like, get them to the purchase something.
94 00:10:48.730 ⇒ 00:10:53.206 Patrik: then you’re like at like, half a percent of the 1%.
95 00:10:53.580 ⇒ 00:10:54.940 Uttam Kumaran: It’s incredibly low.
96 00:10:55.040 ⇒ 00:11:00.070 Uttam Kumaran: But also do some of these guys like just pay this just like they wanna get the brain in front of you
97 00:11:00.250 ⇒ 00:11:00.860 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like.
98 00:11:00.860 ⇒ 00:11:01.380 Patrik: Yeah.
99 00:11:01.380 ⇒ 00:11:03.910 Uttam Kumaran: The reason, you know, Geico, is through the ads
100 00:11:04.040 ⇒ 00:11:09.410 Uttam Kumaran: like I’ve never seen a Geico. I don’t even. I don’t even know if I’ve seen a Geico office.
101 00:11:09.540 ⇒ 00:11:14.850 Uttam Kumaran: The only reason you know it, and I think that’s a great case study like you. Just they just hit you with impressions
102 00:11:15.020 ⇒ 00:11:15.530 Uttam Kumaran: right.
103 00:11:15.530 ⇒ 00:11:15.920 Patrik: Yes.
104 00:11:15.920 ⇒ 00:11:16.860 Uttam Kumaran: It blindly.
105 00:11:16.860 ⇒ 00:11:17.390 Patrik: And then.
106 00:11:17.390 ⇒ 00:11:18.050 Uttam Kumaran: Bye, everyone.
107 00:11:18.050 ⇒ 00:11:20.379 Patrik: And you just build a brand. Yeah, exactly.
108 00:11:20.380 ⇒ 00:11:23.310 Uttam Kumaran: Build a brand, and that will give us the credibility in the sales.
109 00:11:23.310 ⇒ 00:11:23.990 Patrik: Yes.
110 00:11:23.990 ⇒ 00:11:25.109 Uttam Kumaran: And so.
111 00:11:25.360 ⇒ 00:11:26.920 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I mean, I think it’s a.
112 00:11:26.920 ⇒ 00:11:30.289 Patrik: No, it’s this fine line between like measurement and
113 00:11:30.880 ⇒ 00:11:31.730 Patrik: and.
114 00:11:31.730 ⇒ 00:11:32.229 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of like.
115 00:11:32.230 ⇒ 00:11:34.399 Patrik: And got, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
116 00:11:35.370 ⇒ 00:11:36.150 Uttam Kumaran: So how’s that
117 00:11:36.960 ⇒ 00:11:37.940 Uttam Kumaran: business.
118 00:11:38.630 ⇒ 00:11:43.079 Patrik: It’s going well, we so we’re raising the an angel round. I don’t know if.
119 00:11:43.080 ⇒ 00:11:43.580 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, gotcha!
120 00:11:43.580 ⇒ 00:11:44.430 Patrik: No.
121 00:11:45.360 ⇒ 00:11:46.600 Patrik: which is
122 00:11:47.610 ⇒ 00:11:56.820 Patrik: yeah. I mean raising money like sucks. But it’s he’s doing most of it. I’ve like started to tap into my network.
123 00:11:56.820 ⇒ 00:11:59.840 Uttam Kumaran: Is it sucking in terms of like? What.
124 00:11:59.840 ⇒ 00:12:08.680 Patrik: It sucks the process of it. Not like like we’re getting a lot of good feedback and traction. So that’s positive we put together. We’ve got some nice.
125 00:12:08.960 ⇒ 00:12:11.100 Patrik: We just got the head of AI
126 00:12:12.990 ⇒ 00:12:25.809 Patrik: from Etsy to write a check. We got Tino, who was one of the early product. I forget. I can’t pronounce his last name the early product people at Bigquery, and also wanted to
127 00:12:25.830 ⇒ 00:12:27.819 Patrik: founders of Mother Duck.
128 00:12:28.050 ⇒ 00:12:29.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
129 00:12:29.330 ⇒ 00:12:31.702 Patrik: He wrote us a check. He wrote us a check.
130 00:12:32.297 ⇒ 00:12:34.799 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a good network of these guys.
131 00:12:35.200 ⇒ 00:12:38.159 Patrik: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, give me this.
132 00:12:38.160 ⇒ 00:12:39.729 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean I mean, let’s hear. I’ll
133 00:12:42.220 ⇒ 00:12:42.950 Uttam Kumaran: no, I.
134 00:12:42.950 ⇒ 00:12:43.300 Patrik: Yeah.
135 00:12:43.300 ⇒ 00:12:45.199 Uttam Kumaran: The people in the data world. I mean.
136 00:12:45.200 ⇒ 00:12:45.966 Patrik: Yeah, yeah.
137 00:12:46.814 ⇒ 00:13:01.030 Patrik: so no, it’s it’s coming together. We just like, we basically like, need some more runway to execute on these like retailer deals and start to get like some of them, that marketplace product humming a bit.
138 00:13:01.030 ⇒ 00:13:01.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
139 00:13:01.530 ⇒ 00:13:02.589 Patrik: And then
140 00:13:04.110 ⇒ 00:13:09.350 Patrik: because, like working with retailers is just like another beast. It’s not like
141 00:13:09.440 ⇒ 00:13:17.211 Patrik: one of these small e-commerce brands who just like, here’s here’s my Api key. Go do whatever you want with this data. Tell me something interesting.
142 00:13:19.170 ⇒ 00:13:24.371 Patrik: so we’re like, wrapping up the angel round
143 00:13:25.560 ⇒ 00:13:26.770 Patrik: and
144 00:13:28.030 ⇒ 00:13:32.160 Patrik: working on this whole like data marketplace product.
145 00:13:33.140 ⇒ 00:13:35.640 Patrik: which I don’t like. Do you have contacts there, or how.
146 00:13:35.640 ⇒ 00:13:39.810 Uttam Kumaran: I think a little bit. Yeah. I remember, like some early screens, I think it’s basically like
147 00:13:39.860 ⇒ 00:13:43.869 Uttam Kumaran: you can pitch to buy like coax data, or like you kind of.
148 00:13:43.870 ⇒ 00:13:47.129 Patrik: Oh, yeah, yeah. We showed you the figma. So, okay, yeah.
149 00:13:47.130 ⇒ 00:13:49.930 Uttam Kumaran: Your match score, or something like that, right like.
150 00:13:49.930 ⇒ 00:13:50.923 Patrik: We have
151 00:13:52.250 ⇒ 00:13:57.630 Patrik: We have like a demo that I built that I could show you real quick, but.
152 00:13:57.630 ⇒ 00:13:58.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
153 00:13:59.350 ⇒ 00:14:01.260 Patrik: How much, how much time do you like? Are you
154 00:14:02.010 ⇒ 00:14:02.970 Patrik: 3, 30.