Meeting Title: Uttam-Kumaran’s-Personal-Meeting-Room Date: 2024-09-04 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:53.930 ⇒ 00:00:54.570 Robert Tseng: Hello!
2 00:00:55.250 ⇒ 00:00:56.259 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Can you hear me?
3 00:00:56.880 ⇒ 00:00:58.849 Robert Tseng: Yes, I can hear you.
4 00:00:59.900 ⇒ 00:01:02.550 Uttam Kumaran: How’s it going? Sorry, I’m just making some lunch.
5 00:01:02.550 ⇒ 00:01:03.959 Robert Tseng: No worries. Yeah.
6 00:01:04.160 ⇒ 00:01:07.260 Robert Tseng: I also grabbed a quick bite before I came back.
7 00:01:07.570 ⇒ 00:01:10.850 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything? How’s the day going? Lots of stuff today?
8 00:01:10.850 ⇒ 00:01:13.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah, a lot of just
9 00:01:13.480 ⇒ 00:01:15.914 Robert Tseng: meetings on meetings on meetings. So
10 00:01:17.230 ⇒ 00:01:17.890 Robert Tseng: yeah.
11 00:01:20.030 ⇒ 00:01:22.884 Robert Tseng: yeah. Well, let’s let’s chat through the updates on on.
12 00:01:23.900 ⇒ 00:01:27.559 Robert Tseng: Stella and Javi, cause I do have another call in like 30 min. So.
13 00:01:27.560 ⇒ 00:01:28.030 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
14 00:01:29.370 ⇒ 00:01:34.555 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So for Javi. Okay, it’s good. I think we just clear things up with Aman.
15 00:01:36.530 ⇒ 00:01:38.790 Robert Tseng: yeah, I don’t know what it was
16 00:01:38.850 ⇒ 00:01:42.034 Robert Tseng: okay, I mean, well, anyway, I I think I I sent him.
17 00:01:43.130 ⇒ 00:01:46.080 Robert Tseng: Well, he said, the misunderstanding on his end was like
18 00:01:46.100 ⇒ 00:01:52.379 Robert Tseng: he didn’t understand like why we broke out engineering, like data, engineering and data analysis separately.
19 00:01:52.400 ⇒ 00:02:01.899 Robert Tseng: I also agree with him in some ways. It’s like, it is a bit confusing. It’s like, oh, you’re basically giving me the he thought he could just kind of piecemeal his way around it, I guess. And so
20 00:02:02.200 ⇒ 00:02:08.219 Robert Tseng: I was just kind of letting him know, like, Hey, analysis isn’t just report building, you know, includes all these other things that like
21 00:02:08.509 ⇒ 00:02:16.530 Robert Tseng: project management piece, and then also, yeah, like, you know, we’re we’re, you know, we’re also trying to focus on
22 00:02:17.150 ⇒ 00:02:32.850 Robert Tseng: gathering context insights, etc, like, I I guess it is less straightforward for somebody who doesn’t really understand what analysis entails. So I think that’s probably something that I could package better next time rather than presenting a proposal that’s like split
23 00:02:32.860 ⇒ 00:02:34.649 Robert Tseng: data engineering data analysis.
24 00:02:34.650 ⇒ 00:02:36.120 Uttam Kumaran: I see. Okay, okay.
25 00:02:36.120 ⇒ 00:02:37.590 Robert Tseng: We need to package it differently.
26 00:02:37.590 ⇒ 00:02:42.820 Uttam Kumaran: Instead of like instead of like left to right. It’s like some sort of like concentric circle, or something like that.
27 00:02:42.820 ⇒ 00:02:44.209 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
28 00:02:44.210 ⇒ 00:02:44.560 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
29 00:02:44.560 ⇒ 00:02:45.140 Robert Tseng: Makes sense.
30 00:02:45.140 ⇒ 00:02:45.480 Uttam Kumaran: Alright!
31 00:02:45.480 ⇒ 00:03:01.430 Robert Tseng: We should just do the all in, and if they want to break it out, then, like we can break it out later. Yeah, so it seems like he better understood where I was coming from. But then he was like he he didn’t. He didn’t give a number, even though I asked for it. He was just like, Oh, well, you know, we’re just trying to.
32 00:03:03.070 ⇒ 00:03:09.700 Robert Tseng: whatever like bring down the cost somehow. And then I guess he. He seems like he’s trying to squeeze like the analysis.
33 00:03:09.700 ⇒ 00:03:10.229 Uttam Kumaran: The answers.
34 00:03:10.230 ⇒ 00:03:12.289 Robert Tseng: Oh, as good as he can for the 1st month.
35 00:03:12.490 ⇒ 00:03:13.020 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
36 00:03:13.020 ⇒ 00:03:24.699 Robert Tseng: So he was like, Oh, how long will data project management take? And I was like, dude. Look, okay, if you want to like, it’s like minimum minimum 5 h analysis. And we you want to sign the 3 month data engineering deal like
37 00:03:24.890 ⇒ 00:03:28.519 Robert Tseng: we could do that. But I would rather, you know. Still do the 10.
38 00:03:28.520 ⇒ 00:03:34.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, is it like, they just ask you to be like, negotiate everything
39 00:03:35.160 ⇒ 00:03:39.230 Uttam Kumaran: because this, it’s like they’re really being like, 5 h.
40 00:03:39.300 ⇒ 00:03:43.379 Uttam Kumaran: You’re you’ve been talking to them about this thing for probably 5 h today, like.
41 00:03:43.380 ⇒ 00:03:44.620 Robert Tseng: Have. Yeah.
42 00:03:46.640 ⇒ 00:03:52.790 Robert Tseng: ridiculous. But no, I I don’t want you to go down lower, like I I know. Yeah. So anyway, I I wanna
43 00:03:53.250 ⇒ 00:04:02.009 Robert Tseng: anyway, so he’ll he said that they’ll they’ll try to get it through by tomorrow, because I think a couple of them are out of out of office like Friday, so.
44 00:04:02.010 ⇒ 00:04:02.800 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
45 00:04:04.480 ⇒ 00:04:11.269 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think he asked me once again. He was like, Wait, so can you like? Tell me exactly what we’re going to have by the end of the 1st month.
46 00:04:11.430 ⇒ 00:04:14.109 Robert Tseng: whatever. Like, I basically was like.
47 00:04:14.230 ⇒ 00:04:28.515 Robert Tseng: we’re going to give you all the order, level sales and cost data that we can, you know, assuming that you tell us where all this is like, we can get all into the warehouse, build a historical order level like unit economics table.
48 00:04:28.840 ⇒ 00:04:29.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
49 00:04:29.370 ⇒ 00:04:34.409 Robert Tseng: Or it’s just like order, like every component of the cost. And sales break it down.
50 00:04:34.800 ⇒ 00:04:43.049 Robert Tseng: And any other metrics you want to see like that’ll be that that could be like that advanced gross margin table that you can get
51 00:04:43.160 ⇒ 00:04:45.229 Robert Tseng: to make reports off of.
52 00:04:45.684 ⇒ 00:05:05.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, that’s I think that’s realistic for month one. Okay? And then I was like, and then marketing and other things that you want to like bring in later on. We can bring that in for months, 2 and 3. But we wanna stay focused on on the 1st month. So I think anyway, I feel like I’m kind of repeating the same things for different.
53 00:05:05.020 ⇒ 00:05:06.069 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, it makes sense.
54 00:05:06.070 ⇒ 00:05:09.419 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think that’s that’s where we left.
55 00:05:09.420 ⇒ 00:05:26.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, like I for me on the hour side, I like, it’s there’s just no lower. I can go. Because then even my guys are gonna be like dude. What do we like like even with 10 h or like? So so that’s fine. I mean, there is a little room on my side. But again, I want to know, like
56 00:05:26.230 ⇒ 00:05:30.649 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, are they like, it’s like $500. What they’re arguing about, is it like.
57 00:05:30.650 ⇒ 00:05:31.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
58 00:05:31.340 ⇒ 00:05:32.810 Uttam Kumaran: 5,000, like.
59 00:05:32.940 ⇒ 00:05:45.059 Uttam Kumaran: you know, cause that’s that’s kind of like what I want to understand. Or if it’s more like, Hey, bring it down, and then we’re like we can negotiate something. But if they’re just like trying to penny pinch, then I don’t know
60 00:05:45.845 ⇒ 00:05:49.849 Uttam Kumaran: right? Cause, you know, like the biggest thing is like this is gonna come up in like
61 00:05:50.560 ⇒ 00:05:55.609 Uttam Kumaran: the way it’s like, everything’s gonna be like a penny pinch thing. Then it’s gonna be difficult, you know.
62 00:05:55.730 ⇒ 00:05:58.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re gonna eat it later.
63 00:05:59.730 ⇒ 00:06:06.050 Robert Tseng: I I think it’s really that they had no paradigm, for, like how this should be priced. And so
64 00:06:07.060 ⇒ 00:06:14.509 Robert Tseng: yeah, it’s definitely a lot easier when you’re dealing with a team that, like somebody has worked with a data function or something before.
65 00:06:15.167 ⇒ 00:06:21.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So I I’ve tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, and not like kind of see them as like completely.
66 00:06:21.100 ⇒ 00:06:21.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
67 00:06:21.800 ⇒ 00:06:23.540 Robert Tseng: Like I. Or do you think.
68 00:06:23.970 ⇒ 00:06:29.819 Robert Tseng: yeah, like I was? Yeah, I I was trying to educate him as much as I could, so.
69 00:06:29.820 ⇒ 00:06:32.309 Uttam Kumaran: Friday. We can talk a little bit about like
70 00:06:32.560 ⇒ 00:06:38.739 Uttam Kumaran: you can take this as like a retro and be like, okay, if we’re going after folks that have no paradigm. What are the
71 00:06:38.880 ⇒ 00:06:41.210 Uttam Kumaran: what are the like? The talking points.
72 00:06:41.210 ⇒ 00:06:41.540 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
73 00:06:41.540 ⇒ 00:06:46.925 Uttam Kumaran: Really should get clear. I think we did a I think I mean I think we did a better job for sure.
74 00:06:47.170 ⇒ 00:06:48.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think we did.
75 00:06:48.650 ⇒ 00:06:49.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
76 00:06:51.590 ⇒ 00:06:59.620 Robert Tseng: So yeah, yeah. Well, I guess we’ll we’ll I mean, he said. I’ll he’ll get back by tomorrow. So I think that’s that’s kind of the timeline there.
77 00:07:01.290 ⇒ 00:07:03.474 Robert Tseng: on the seller side.
78 00:07:04.050 ⇒ 00:07:14.109 Robert Tseng: yeah, I mean, kind of like what I anticipated. They wanted to shrink the contracts. Apparently they’re trying to. I mean, I’ve told you their burn rate is pretty bad, and they’re they’re trying to
79 00:07:14.140 ⇒ 00:07:20.929 Robert Tseng: like raise some funding. So I think Lindsay wants to like produce wants to shrink. The contract for Q. 4.
80 00:07:20.930 ⇒ 00:07:21.470 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
81 00:07:22.800 ⇒ 00:07:25.680 Robert Tseng: yeah. I mean, I think if it doesn’t make sense to do.
82 00:07:25.890 ⇒ 00:07:34.399 Robert Tseng: I mean, she basically wanted to take our contract and like, bring it down by, like more than half. So I could just like, I don’t know if that really makes sense
83 00:07:35.355 ⇒ 00:07:38.828 Robert Tseng: for for you to be even be involved in that point.
84 00:07:39.470 ⇒ 00:07:48.759 Robert Tseng: so I’m thinking of, yeah. Just pausing them for Q, 4, and yeah, I’m just keeping a retainer fee
85 00:07:48.820 ⇒ 00:07:58.590 Robert Tseng: on on them. But that’s that’s like. But on the data engineering side, I think maybe we should just pause there, because I don’t want. I don’t want to waste your time either with like 5 h, or whatever, so.
86 00:07:58.590 ⇒ 00:08:03.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, then let me get back to Nick on that, and then I’m just gonna give him that news, and then
87 00:08:04.240 ⇒ 00:08:09.069 Uttam Kumaran: if it gets if the news gets better, then it gets better. Otherwise. That is what it is.
88 00:08:09.480 ⇒ 00:08:10.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
89 00:08:10.290 ⇒ 00:08:10.740 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
90 00:08:13.100 ⇒ 00:08:13.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
91 00:08:13.860 ⇒ 00:08:18.060 Robert Tseng: so kind of, yeah, I mean, kind of what we were anticipating. But
92 00:08:18.393 ⇒ 00:08:22.769 Robert Tseng: yeah, maybe this is like, something that we revisit in in q. 1 with them.
93 00:08:23.610 ⇒ 00:08:28.999 Uttam Kumaran: And then in terms of they’re still gonna do payouts for last month.
94 00:08:29.250 ⇒ 00:08:30.140 Robert Tseng: Yes, yes.
95 00:08:30.140 ⇒ 00:08:31.409 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Okay, great.
96 00:08:33.190 ⇒ 00:08:35.490 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Okay.
97 00:08:37.500 ⇒ 00:08:45.610 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. I feel like again, I think if we get into Javi, they are like a lot faster moving, and a lot better stakeholder of like a
98 00:08:45.930 ⇒ 00:08:51.439 Uttam Kumaran: they probably only prior. I think they have fewer people. They’re more modern. So like, I really do believe for them
99 00:08:51.880 ⇒ 00:08:55.110 Uttam Kumaran: we can show, and then it starts to roll on its own.
100 00:08:57.040 ⇒ 00:09:02.665 Uttam Kumaran: so that’s why I’m pretty like Bullish. There, the Stella thing. Yeah, I mean, you preface for a long time that like, Hey, that’s
101 00:09:02.920 ⇒ 00:09:05.310 Uttam Kumaran: he’s probably heading this way. So that’s okay.
102 00:09:05.710 ⇒ 00:09:09.209 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah. Sorry. Not the not not great news for either of us.
103 00:09:09.210 ⇒ 00:09:11.470 Uttam Kumaran: That’s okay. That’s okay. Yeah.
104 00:09:11.470 ⇒ 00:09:13.590 Robert Tseng: That’s part of the part of
105 00:09:13.620 ⇒ 00:09:15.819 Robert Tseng: you wouldn’t send me this up. So
106 00:09:15.990 ⇒ 00:09:16.960 Robert Tseng: yeah, yeah.
107 00:09:18.820 ⇒ 00:09:25.119 Robert Tseng: okay. Well, I mean, I think on the Stella side like, I don’t really foresee any handoff. I mean.
108 00:09:26.080 ⇒ 00:09:33.880 Robert Tseng: I think we what we have is good. I I know we’ve mentioned some like organ like organization, like File, like real.
109 00:09:33.880 ⇒ 00:09:34.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
110 00:09:34.240 ⇒ 00:09:35.175 Robert Tseng: Things
111 00:09:36.730 ⇒ 00:09:42.969 Uttam Kumaran: Go ahead and just do that, but then everything else I’ll I’ll just leave the Channel, and then, in case you need to ask Nick for stuff
112 00:09:43.240 ⇒ 00:09:44.879 Uttam Kumaran: like it’s there. But I’m gonna.
113 00:09:44.880 ⇒ 00:09:45.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
114 00:09:45.503 ⇒ 00:09:46.109 Uttam Kumaran: Heads up!
115 00:09:47.190 ⇒ 00:09:47.850 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
116 00:09:49.200 ⇒ 00:10:06.480 Robert Tseng: So what she told me is that they they are actively talking to investors right now, and she wants to make their their burn rate look better like in Q. 4 they’re actually letting some people go as well and like it’s a whole like shit show there like it’s just whatever I don’t know.
117 00:10:06.850 ⇒ 00:10:07.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
118 00:10:07.580 ⇒ 00:10:08.205 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
119 00:10:09.668 ⇒ 00:10:18.620 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, sometimes the what do they say? They say they’re like the rooster comes to nest, or something like that, some sort of term like that right where.
120 00:10:18.620 ⇒ 00:10:21.250 Robert Tseng: That that sounds familiar. I’ve heard something like that before.
121 00:10:21.250 ⇒ 00:10:24.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, this thing can’t go on forever. Yeah.
122 00:10:25.020 ⇒ 00:10:35.999 Uttam Kumaran: But okay, I mean, look, I think we got it. I think on our side, like, I think we got a really good case study out of that. And we’re continuing to go after manufacturing and stuff like that. And so yeah, I think we’ll we’ll end up.
123 00:10:36.400 ⇒ 00:10:41.539 Uttam Kumaran: It wound up and then and then, yeah, let’s we can keep in touch for q 1 on that. So.
124 00:10:41.880 ⇒ 00:10:47.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, this won’t. This won’t be the last one for sure. On on in this sector.
125 00:10:47.490 ⇒ 00:10:48.210 Robert Tseng: Well.
126 00:10:48.640 ⇒ 00:10:52.990 Robert Tseng: we’ll we’ll keep going after clients in this, in this, in this vertical.
127 00:10:53.150 ⇒ 00:10:53.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
128 00:10:56.000 ⇒ 00:11:00.642 Robert Tseng: Cool. Yeah, that’s it. Those are the really updates that I have.
129 00:11:01.840 ⇒ 00:11:03.272 Robert Tseng: yeah, well, let’s
130 00:11:03.870 ⇒ 00:11:27.029 Robert Tseng: I will keep pushing on the joby thing. I I think this is going to go through. If anything. If they reduce my hours, I think you know you’ll get you’ll get what you wanted out of it. And I’m I’m comfortable moving forward with that. If they want to just do less analysis whatever and do more focus on the engineering side for the 1st month, like, so be it like, let’s just let’s just lock them in. So you got something for 3 months.
131 00:11:27.310 ⇒ 00:11:38.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I really do think, like again, their brand that we’re used to. We’re used to working with brands like that. And once they see kind of like what we’re able to do, and they work with like Brian from my side. I think they’ll be.
132 00:11:39.000 ⇒ 00:11:40.152 Uttam Kumaran: They’ll be happy.
133 00:11:41.130 ⇒ 00:11:49.320 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the biggest thing is like, we’ll just make sure we show them the value. And again, like, I think, the one learning from this, and we got better, I think, on the pricing
134 00:11:49.580 ⇒ 00:11:53.110 Uttam Kumaran: and like kind of articulating. But I think there’s probably one more step which is like
135 00:11:53.600 ⇒ 00:11:55.350 Uttam Kumaran: even just sharing like, Hey.
136 00:11:55.580 ⇒ 00:12:00.430 Uttam Kumaran: kind of like what we agreed on today, which is like, it’s like a concent concentric circle, basically like
137 00:12:00.520 ⇒ 00:12:13.889 Uttam Kumaran: the analysis as you laid it out, is like the last mile, but kind of guides the whole thing, and I think there’s a way we can articulate that and package that so like we could. Let’s talk more about that on Friday, because I can get some notes and then
138 00:12:14.160 ⇒ 00:12:16.399 Uttam Kumaran: try to put something together that we have.
139 00:12:18.140 ⇒ 00:12:19.949 Robert Tseng: Yup, let’s let’s do that.
140 00:12:20.540 ⇒ 00:12:21.310 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
141 00:12:21.799 ⇒ 00:12:30.140 Robert Tseng: Yeah. And I I yeah, thanks for some of the messages you sent yesterday. I’m I’m I’ll draft some. I mean, I’m I’m drafting something, I’ll probably respond. Probably something.
142 00:12:30.140 ⇒ 00:12:31.399 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Yeah, yeah, of course.
143 00:12:31.400 ⇒ 00:12:31.635 Robert Tseng: But
144 00:12:31.870 ⇒ 00:12:32.670 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
145 00:12:32.670 ⇒ 00:12:36.042 Robert Tseng: Yeah, maybe that’s also a Friday conversation as well. But
146 00:12:36.380 ⇒ 00:12:36.900 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
147 00:12:36.900 ⇒ 00:12:38.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah, cool.
148 00:12:38.020 ⇒ 00:12:39.639 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Cool. Dude.
149 00:12:39.640 ⇒ 00:12:40.160 Robert Tseng: Okay.
150 00:12:40.160 ⇒ 00:12:41.600 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you. Tom.
151 00:12:42.059 ⇒ 00:12:48.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, appreciate you kind of just being on. Yeah, just responding quickly throughout this.
152 00:12:48.490 ⇒ 00:12:49.330 Uttam Kumaran: Course, I mean look.
153 00:12:49.330 ⇒ 00:12:49.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
154 00:12:49.660 ⇒ 00:12:58.949 Uttam Kumaran: This is all like nothing happens until for me, I don’t get happy or sad until the thing closes. So I’m just like, try to see like where it’s possible.
155 00:12:59.050 ⇒ 00:13:04.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But you know, we’ve done this now so many times that I now know like what the lower limit is.
156 00:13:04.040 ⇒ 00:13:18.589 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m trying to be on. And it’s I think we did a good job of being like. Look, this is what we’re gonna have is like the floor and then working to like, okay, just we handle objections and we’ll keep going. So yeah, let’s, this is great. I’m glad we went through this. So.
157 00:13:18.960 ⇒ 00:13:19.580 Robert Tseng: Cool.
158 00:13:19.700 ⇒ 00:13:21.629 Robert Tseng: alright talk to you later.
159 00:13:21.630 ⇒ 00:13:22.579 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks, dude, I’ll talk to you soon.
160 00:13:22.580 ⇒ 00:13:23.230 Robert Tseng: But.