Meeting Title: Uttam <> Robert Date: 2024-06-06 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:02:22.090 ⇒ 00:02:23.500 Robert Tseng: Hey, Tom, can you hear me?
2 00:02:24.450 ⇒ 00:02:25.790 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? Can you hear me?
3 00:02:25.790 ⇒ 00:02:26.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
4 00:02:27.590 ⇒ 00:02:28.749 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? How’s it going.
5 00:02:29.850 ⇒ 00:02:32.390 Robert Tseng: Good. Just
6 00:02:32.430 ⇒ 00:02:40.148 Robert Tseng: yeah. I feel like just a lot of like strategic stuff. The past couple of days writing a lot and thinking a lot.
7 00:02:40.470 ⇒ 00:02:42.949 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, good. No, this is actually a good timing
8 00:02:44.370 ⇒ 00:02:49.845 Uttam Kumaran: for me, too, like I I needed to kind of say, take a step back and having
9 00:02:50.270 ⇒ 00:02:55.639 Uttam Kumaran: like bringing on the project manager, and then has allowed me to kind of take a little bit of an understanding of like
10 00:02:55.980 ⇒ 00:03:00.779 Uttam Kumaran: who’s all on the team like what expertises do we have? And mainly starting from like what’s
11 00:03:00.890 ⇒ 00:03:04.450 Uttam Kumaran: gone? Well, what’s not going well, and then what needs to go? Well
12 00:03:04.980 ⇒ 00:03:07.330 Uttam Kumaran: for the future, right? And like
13 00:03:07.560 ⇒ 00:03:13.019 Uttam Kumaran: it’s been helpful. I’ve kind of been doing a bunch of writing, and I think about it for like 5 days, and then, like.
14 00:03:13.060 ⇒ 00:03:18.240 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, cool. I kinda like, have a little bit of a puzzle figured out. So
15 00:03:19.700 ⇒ 00:03:20.969 Uttam Kumaran: awesome. Yeah.
16 00:03:22.110 ⇒ 00:03:23.884 Robert Tseng: Yeah, for sure. I think.
17 00:03:25.650 ⇒ 00:03:35.160 Robert Tseng: yeah, I mean, I I was. I was hoping that I mean, we we’ve exchanged the messages here there. But yeah, I know. I think just thought it’d be good to just sit down and kind of just
18 00:03:35.250 ⇒ 00:03:40.960 Robert Tseng: chat through things at a higher level. And then, yeah, I guess, like.
19 00:03:41.030 ⇒ 00:03:42.260 Robert Tseng: obviously.
20 00:03:42.540 ⇒ 00:03:49.180 Robert Tseng: I don’t know. Feel like sometimes it’s weird because we’re like conflating. We have like stuff going on within with the ongoing project. And then.
21 00:03:49.310 ⇒ 00:04:02.720 Robert Tseng: like, Yeah, sometimes we just don’t ever. We don’t really like have this space anymore to kind of just talk about where we’re going. I guess. So just thought it’d be helpful to. Yeah, I’m just gonna share what’s been on my mind. And kind of how I think about
22 00:04:03.001 ⇒ 00:04:14.780 Robert Tseng: like the partnership with with you and brain forge and just see like what adjustments or things that we’re gonna make like. We may not have everything figured out from this call, obviously. But just thought at least it’d be good to kind of
23 00:04:15.040 ⇒ 00:04:28.909 Robert Tseng: like some things down to to think about more or like, yeah, we if we wanted to like, make any. Yeah, if we wanted to call anything, I think it’d be it’d be good to also like, have have that in mind as well, so.
24 00:04:30.460 ⇒ 00:04:40.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So I read your message. But maybe, like in your words, go through kind of where you are, and then I’ll I’m happy to share, of course, where we are, and really, specifically
25 00:04:40.950 ⇒ 00:04:43.369 Uttam Kumaran: talking about like, where I think
26 00:04:44.170 ⇒ 00:04:45.040 Uttam Kumaran: like them
27 00:04:45.260 ⇒ 00:04:50.079 Uttam Kumaran: brain forges we’re really good at where I think we really suck at. And then
28 00:04:50.150 ⇒ 00:04:56.059 Uttam Kumaran: if for what we want to achieve next, what I what needs to change in both of those
29 00:04:56.170 ⇒ 00:04:59.829 Uttam Kumaran: areas, right? Are there things that we’re good at that like.
30 00:04:59.850 ⇒ 00:05:24.660 Uttam Kumaran: maybe we kind of don’t need to be. Are there things that were bad at that? Like? Okay, certainly, like, this is a constant problem. And like, I kind of, I know from your message you kind of listed, hey? Here’s some things that we’re really gonna hear, some things that we could approve on. And here’s like things that you bring to the table. So maybe we just start there and again, like can rehash a club, maybe a couple of things on your message. But basically I I read it. I kind of get where you’re coming from. But yeah, be great to hear from you.
31 00:05:24.820 ⇒ 00:05:31.588 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s a good starting point. Let me just pull up those messages and kind of like rehash right on where I was where I was at.
32 00:05:32.140 ⇒ 00:05:33.588 Robert Tseng: yeah. So I think.
33 00:05:34.970 ⇒ 00:05:45.189 Robert Tseng: yeah, I mean, I think couple of weeks ago, I kind of was just having that existential moment. I was like, okay, it’s been like about a year now. And like, where do I see things going? Like.
34 00:05:45.190 ⇒ 00:06:05.990 Robert Tseng: yeah, am. I just gonna go back to a full time role. Or like, if I gonna keep sticking with with Pungo like, what are we doing? Well, what we’re not. And yeah, kind of what you’re describing. So yeah, I think Pungo kind of like with this journey. The niche that we’ve fit into now. Yeah, I think user analytics. Tooling, I think, is kind of our entry point. So more specifically, that’s been
35 00:06:06.463 ⇒ 00:06:08.830 Robert Tseng: yeah, like helping companies that
36 00:06:08.910 ⇒ 00:06:21.629 Robert Tseng: have like mix panel or amplitude, or wanted to get started early on, and it just says, Set it up well, and that’s kind of been like the the door like that’s been open for for me, and I think I’ve kind of developed the reputation there now.
37 00:06:21.989 ⇒ 00:06:36.799 Robert Tseng: and like being good at like modeling event data like setting setting that up and yeah, for especially early stage companies that don’t have like analytics infrastructure set up. And that’s like the only tool they’re using. Maybe they have a Cdp or something.
38 00:06:37.184 ⇒ 00:06:42.700 Robert Tseng: But yeah, just being able to give them by some of those initial reports they want.
39 00:06:43.020 ⇒ 00:06:55.270 Robert Tseng: and then from there, like clients like Stella. That would be longer. And then, yeah, we’ve been trying to upsell or expand the scope right? And I think that’s kind of like that was the opportunity that I’ve been
40 00:06:55.320 ⇒ 00:07:03.390 Robert Tseng: waiting on. I was like, I really wanna try to bring Bouton into this and see if this is this is like something I could really expand with this client?
41 00:07:03.704 ⇒ 00:07:09.335 Robert Tseng: And so we’ve been. We’ve been at it for a few months now. And yeah, I think we you know, we we
42 00:07:09.670 ⇒ 00:07:15.929 Robert Tseng: a lot a lot of things going well there. And I think there’s like, yeah, like to me, it’s it’s been, yeah, like, this is the 1st
43 00:07:16.330 ⇒ 00:07:24.139 Robert Tseng: client that like, I’ve really like expanded into into that. So yeah, have have been learning, like, okay, well.
44 00:07:24.330 ⇒ 00:07:45.459 Robert Tseng: going full fuller step in the the data stack like i i i do see my own gaps and where I where I where I I you know, my expertise runs out, and I definitely need to lean on, lean on you and your team more. And then also, like as things get more complex like, I realize, like, okay, I do need like a team to scale up if I’m going to
45 00:07:45.799 ⇒ 00:08:04.650 Robert Tseng: like covers and such complex projects. Because before you know, I’ve I’ve been used to just mainly OP like operating on my own, and maybe like picking like few answers here and there for like very small things. But yeah. So I think that’s kind of like the current state of where I saw like things that fungal are at.
46 00:08:05.490 ⇒ 00:08:09.760 Robert Tseng: yeah. And so I I think from Yeah.
47 00:08:10.190 ⇒ 00:08:18.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, my question would be like in that moment when you set the message last week. And this is what I try to think is like, could I go through the same thing where
48 00:08:18.190 ⇒ 00:08:42.920 Uttam Kumaran: there’ll be days where I’m like? Like it’s a rap like I can’t, you know, or there’ll be days where, like, I’m like, Oh, my God! Like we crushed it, we’re going. And it’s actually for me more of like, can I reduce the those types of swings. There’s gonna be ups and downs. But like, can I reduce the amplitude of those right? And I guess, like, maybe if you don’t mind sharing like. What was that moment
49 00:08:43.059 ⇒ 00:08:47.300 Uttam Kumaran: when you when that, what was? What was your feeling in that moment like when you’re like.
50 00:08:47.350 ⇒ 00:08:53.909 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I don’t know. Like I could tell you what it typically is like for me, because I basically can see it coming. But
51 00:08:54.230 ⇒ 00:09:02.830 Uttam Kumaran: I’m interested in like kind of like, how it is for you, and like what was it in particular, that kind of like causes you to be like? Have like a little like moment like that.
52 00:09:03.260 ⇒ 00:09:06.487 Robert Tseng: I see. No, that’s a great question. I think.
53 00:09:07.710 ⇒ 00:09:36.409 Robert Tseng: this particular moment. Yeah, I mean, may was just kind of a dry month, I guess. Just entering like leaving April entering May, like, obviously had our project goes ongoing, but I like lost one of my like longer, longer, longer compliance. And then I think it was just yeah running into a lot of walls on the, on the like, on the sales on the sales side. So I mean, I’ve I’m already in the routine of like, always be pitching, I guess, like I’m always prospecting. I’ve always hopped on calls now.
54 00:09:36.745 ⇒ 00:10:00.249 Robert Tseng: And yeah, I mean, I think June seems to be looking like a better month. Like I I just yeah, that you can’t find that I was like asking for your help on last week. I think we’re we’re gonna sign like, probably tomorrow. So yeah, I mean, you know, I know a lot of it is just stay in the game long enough for like things to come around like a lot of the I mean end of Q. 2, maybe, like budgets are just being renewed, or whatever. So
55 00:10:00.250 ⇒ 00:10:08.929 Robert Tseng: you know, I think there are a lot of like external factors to it. But yeah, in in a dry spell where I’m just like I when the feature just looks like it’s like, Okay, well.
56 00:10:08.930 ⇒ 00:10:09.580 Uttam Kumaran: Hopeful.
57 00:10:09.580 ⇒ 00:10:12.430 Robert Tseng: If this one that client leaves, and I lose like a couple more.
58 00:10:12.430 ⇒ 00:10:12.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
59 00:10:12.820 ⇒ 00:10:17.369 Robert Tseng: Like, I’m back square. One kind of thing. So think that’s kind of where it felt like
60 00:10:17.960 ⇒ 00:10:25.850 Robert Tseng: I made progress. But then, like it doesn’t always feel that reproducible cause. Like, yeah, you don’t really know when when the next one’s gonna come. So.
61 00:10:26.740 ⇒ 00:10:34.719 Uttam Kumaran: And then ha! Like what? What has been this thing that you’ve enjoyed most like now that you’re kind of a year in, and I have some things, too, is like
62 00:10:34.870 ⇒ 00:10:40.612 Uttam Kumaran: for me. I still really love the engineering like like. Still, my like favorite thing to do out of everything.
63 00:10:41.209 ⇒ 00:11:04.090 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t wait to do that because I like I’m good. That’s what I got into this doing. That’s right. Background is but I also found that I am good at some of the sales and marketing things, and then, of course, there’s work where it’s just like there’s 10 thing different things to do. And now that I’m a bunch of people involved, there’s like all sorts of complication. I’m like, am I handling it? Are they handling it? Who can handle it
64 00:11:04.140 ⇒ 00:11:05.520 Uttam Kumaran: who should handle it?
65 00:11:05.837 ⇒ 00:11:15.069 Uttam Kumaran: Accountability for due dates like there’s a bunch of that that I really don’t like doing, because it’s awkward. It’s coordination problem. It takes like an always on sort of mindset.
66 00:11:15.330 ⇒ 00:11:16.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
67 00:11:16.380 ⇒ 00:11:22.999 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m interested for you like like you mentioned that like, hey? Some of these projects are like more boilerplate now, and it’s kind of getting like
68 00:11:23.310 ⇒ 00:11:27.229 Uttam Kumaran: little bit of the same. So are you enjoying more like the sales stuff
69 00:11:27.570 ⇒ 00:11:29.640 Uttam Kumaran: like compared to that? Or is it just like.
70 00:11:29.980 ⇒ 00:11:32.909 Uttam Kumaran: like, yeah, I guess interested in, like, how you’re thinking about that.
71 00:11:33.550 ⇒ 00:11:47.229 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so yeah, that I think the sales stuff is always interesting to me, like I always get excited to chase chase new, bigger projects, I guess. And I think to me that that’s what motivates me to learn and keep like expanding what what I’m doing.
72 00:11:47.538 ⇒ 00:12:08.731 Robert Tseng: I think by nature of just if I do something more than once, like I’m going to optimize it, I guess. And so I’ve kind of gone to a point where, yeah, within product analytics, like, there are certain offerings like the 1st one month of any client. I feel like, it’s pretty like in the bag, like I I’m ready to like, train somebody to do that like I’ve already been like trying to here and there.
73 00:12:09.070 ⇒ 00:12:14.690 Robert Tseng: yeah. So i i i feel good about our our process in in in terms of like.
74 00:12:15.020 ⇒ 00:12:27.240 Robert Tseng: yeah, if I get my foot in the door on on one of these these projects, I know what the first, st like, you know, 2 weeks a month looks like. But then, yeah, being able to like, extend them for longer and like, continue to have enough. Like.
75 00:12:27.770 ⇒ 00:12:33.707 Robert Tseng: like, yeah, enough roadmap to to keep going. I think that’s that’s hard for me, for sure. Like,
76 00:12:34.610 ⇒ 00:12:36.589 Robert Tseng: yeah, I do feel like.
77 00:12:36.670 ⇒ 00:12:46.860 Robert Tseng: But I also, you know, feel free to, you know. I I don’t. I’m not what you think, but you know I’ve seen that data is like a support function. If the company is not growing like. It doesn’t really matter like what I do.
78 00:12:46.860 ⇒ 00:12:47.370 Uttam Kumaran: A.
79 00:12:47.833 ⇒ 00:12:48.760 Robert Tseng: They’re not.
80 00:12:49.050 ⇒ 00:12:50.230 Uttam Kumaran: You know, dream big.
81 00:12:50.882 ⇒ 00:12:53.480 Uttam Kumaran: Then you’re kinda like you, yeah.
82 00:12:53.480 ⇒ 00:13:15.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah. And so there is kind of like a natural like, momentum dies down like, okay, well, I I’m gonna either lose this client or I’m gonna wind off of that myself. So like I wasn’t surprised with what happened in April like that client was with me for like 4 months, and I think they just hit like a wall. So like, I didn’t really think that we were going to extend so yeah, I think there’s there’s that it’s like, how like I mean, I
83 00:13:15.260 ⇒ 00:13:21.809 Robert Tseng: obviously it’d be be great to like land. I mean, I I still haven’t gotten like I I don’t
84 00:13:21.920 ⇒ 00:13:24.809 Robert Tseng: but landed a situation where
85 00:13:25.190 ⇒ 00:13:27.640 Robert Tseng: I mean, maybe it’s just like a pipe dream. But like.
86 00:13:27.990 ⇒ 00:13:34.169 Robert Tseng: yeah, just to really accelerate with the team for like a year, and then, if it becomes something more
87 00:13:34.200 ⇒ 00:13:43.059 Robert Tseng: fully fledged like I’m open to like joining full time with with the right opportunity, like a couple of my clients have asked me to join full time, and I’m like, No, I think this looks like a
88 00:13:43.892 ⇒ 00:13:47.330 Robert Tseng: bad situation and answer to like I’m not interested.
89 00:13:47.330 ⇒ 00:13:55.820 Uttam Kumaran: And I guess on that point like, Are you? Would you do it? Would you do because of the money? Would you do it because of the sanity? Or would you do it because of like, actually like the opportunity.
90 00:13:56.740 ⇒ 00:14:13.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean at this point, it’s not about the money like, I I prepared a doc. I wanted to share with you kind of like like kind of the revenue targets that I had like. So you can get a sense of the ambition that I had with Bungo. But at this point, like, I’ve more than replaced my previous full time income. And yeah, to me, it’s not really about like
91 00:14:13.870 ⇒ 00:14:25.459 Robert Tseng: there’s nothing in the market that I think would really, you know, give me the same amount like like pure purely like money. Wise? That being said, I do feel like I hustle a lot harder to like. Make every dollar you know.
92 00:14:25.460 ⇒ 00:14:30.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, no, I mean, yeah, I I think I this is the hardest I’ve worked and.
93 00:14:30.570 ⇒ 00:14:31.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think.
94 00:14:31.260 ⇒ 00:14:34.600 Uttam Kumaran: And just in the last 2 months I’ve been making.
95 00:14:34.820 ⇒ 00:14:41.759 Uttam Kumaran: I mean because there was a moment where I was working contracts, and I was like making, like, you know, like 2025 K just solo.
96 00:14:42.015 ⇒ 00:15:08.429 Uttam Kumaran: And but then, like when you hire people, then it became went back to normal. But I think this past month by the 1st month that we’re close getting closer to that, all things considered. But I always I never got to this to make the same amount of money. I was like, dude. This is like, this is so much work for the same amount of money. Yeah, like, so a lot of people ask you. They’re like, Oh, like. So you’re you’re you’re just like you’re doing well. I’m like, no like I didn’t work this hard just to make the same like this. Gotta be way more.
97 00:15:08.430 ⇒ 00:15:09.199 Robert Tseng: It’s gotta be a way.
98 00:15:09.200 ⇒ 00:15:09.530 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry.
99 00:15:09.530 ⇒ 00:15:10.569 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
100 00:15:11.050 ⇒ 00:15:14.410 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s like something on my mind, too. But I also knew that, like
101 00:15:14.500 ⇒ 00:15:33.159 Uttam Kumaran: part of like making way more. And it’s also thinking about like, where is my time going? And then also, like, sometimes I get into this where people are like, what do you wanna do with the business I’m like, I just thought about like, how do you get the next month? Like, I don’t really like? I’m just now kind of thinking like, well, we have like 3 months of like stability, and
102 00:15:33.230 ⇒ 00:15:37.079 Uttam Kumaran: we have a great a number of partnerships. And now I’m kind of thinking like
103 00:15:37.320 ⇒ 00:15:41.500 Uttam Kumaran: beyond, like revenue targets like, what do we want to do? Do we want to niche down
104 00:15:41.720 ⇒ 00:15:47.429 Uttam Kumaran: into a domain? Do we want to niche down into one part of the data stack.
105 00:15:47.710 ⇒ 00:15:53.169 Uttam Kumaran: do I? Do. We want to do everything cause like that’s a possibility, too.
106 00:15:54.490 ⇒ 00:16:17.740 Uttam Kumaran: so yeah, I mean for me. I I considered it, too, and for me. It was purely that, like, I don’t like, I’ve worked in a bunch of high stress startup environments and data. And like, I’m someone that like, I think this sort of thing is more conducive for me where I can balance a couple. And then also, just like I just have like again, probably somewhere like just really big dreams of doing different things in business. And I’m like.
107 00:16:17.830 ⇒ 00:16:25.520 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know whether I could go back full time right now, like I don’t think I’ll get good employee. I kind of seen like how the sausage is made.
108 00:16:25.520 ⇒ 00:16:25.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
109 00:16:25.840 ⇒ 00:16:30.730 Uttam Kumaran: I’m a great employee from that perspective before either cause. I usually just like ruffle feathers. And I kind of like
110 00:16:30.870 ⇒ 00:16:39.259 Uttam Kumaran: find out like how to get stuff done, no matter what. But yeah, if I resound like, that’s like, I think a lot about the same things.
111 00:16:39.650 ⇒ 00:16:40.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally.
112 00:16:41.090 ⇒ 00:16:47.704 Robert Tseng: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I honestly, this past year I haven’t. I haven’t been bored like it’s definitely not boring.
113 00:16:47.980 ⇒ 00:16:48.829 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah.
114 00:16:48.830 ⇒ 00:16:50.500 Robert Tseng: I mean to me that it taught me something about.
115 00:16:50.500 ⇒ 00:16:52.464 Uttam Kumaran: And you got, and you got married. Dude.
116 00:16:53.081 ⇒ 00:16:56.419 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that was crazy, I think. I mean.
117 00:16:56.430 ⇒ 00:17:09.819 Robert Tseng: alright, it didn’t really start turning the corner for me. Yeah, until right after we got married. Then things started to pick up and yeah, so I I don’t know I did. There are definitely question marks like going into marriage. I was like.
118 00:17:09.930 ⇒ 00:17:17.203 Robert Tseng: shit like, should I push off the wedding? But but yeah, what? You know, we did, we did. So.
119 00:17:18.250 ⇒ 00:17:19.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
120 00:17:19.430 ⇒ 00:17:31.390 Robert Tseng: yeah, I think like, I mean, I wanted to share this talk with you. I want you to kind of see what’s on my mind. Like I I am. I’m like a pretty open book and these things. And I want to like, test my like thinking with other people. And so,
121 00:17:32.430 ⇒ 00:17:48.430 Robert Tseng: yeah, so I kinda like through started throwing the stock together is kind of well, I mean, just listing out kind of like what our current partnership has been at, and then I mean features empty. We haven’t really gotten there yet. This is just me like kind of a brain dump, and things that I felt like were appropriate to share.
122 00:17:48.890 ⇒ 00:18:11.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah. So maybe I’ll kind of expect, yeah, I mean, since we already touched on it, I’ll jump around. But yeah, kind of at this point where, like you said, like on my own, I’m like, I, I’m I’m exceeding or like, yeah, what my my previous income. But it’s like, Yeah, I’m like, I’m like kind of stuck here, you know, and in my mind, I’ll these are pretty arbitrary, but like I I made this like some time ago, and I just. I’m pasted in.
123 00:18:11.820 ⇒ 00:18:12.250 Uttam Kumaran: I.
124 00:18:12.250 ⇒ 00:18:12.640 Robert Tseng: So for me.
125 00:18:12.640 ⇒ 00:18:16.950 Uttam Kumaran: Me. I did 2 for me. I did 2. I did the top line at the bottom line. I did.
126 00:18:17.100 ⇒ 00:18:19.420 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t just make enough to cover.
127 00:18:19.550 ⇒ 00:18:21.240 Uttam Kumaran: And I said, mammalian
128 00:18:21.310 ⇒ 00:18:25.290 Uttam Kumaran: like I I was like. That’s those are my 2 goals was like
129 00:18:25.490 ⇒ 00:18:31.600 Uttam Kumaran: I initially was like, I can’t set. I don’t know what head count targets. I don’t know like number clients. But I basically was like.
130 00:18:32.050 ⇒ 00:18:40.649 Uttam Kumaran: like, I basically back out of what our current plans was is like, let’s just set a million, which is 86 a month. And like, that’s what we’re gonna drive towards.
131 00:18:40.650 ⇒ 00:18:45.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah, okay, yeah, that’s funny. That was just so similar. Similar thought process.
132 00:18:46.321 ⇒ 00:18:53.720 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I mean, I think I you know, I think I I’ve I’ve talked a bunch of people, and I don’t know if anything I I kind of shared with you what I think
133 00:18:54.000 ⇒ 00:19:06.309 Robert Tseng: with my with the current engagements that I run like the average contract side is like 30 k, and so, yeah, you know, like a 3 month contract like 5 to 10 KA month like 3. Yeah, whatever, something like that. And so
134 00:19:06.340 ⇒ 00:19:32.289 Robert Tseng: like to really get to 80 km, or are like, yeah, yeah, it’s it’s it’s hard. I I think I’ve I’m kind of like at a point now where I I lose a client like every month, and then, like I’m hopefully picking one up like every 2 months, or something like that. And and it kind of stays around there so I mean, I don’t know. I think I have my sales pipeline like, analyze and kind of know, like the limits of my of my offerings. And so that’s why I’ve been like really wanting to. I feel like.
135 00:19:32.540 ⇒ 00:19:44.190 Robert Tseng: unless I want to be the kind of person like here, I’ll give you context like, I’ve met someone in Austin who just provides who just does like devops as a service. He bids on 2,000 up work, contracts a month.
136 00:19:44.995 ⇒ 00:20:10.510 Robert Tseng: Whatever he wins. He wins, like, you know just just a couple of 100 a month, and then he just hires like a team of like 30 people in Brazil executed on it. And he just runs the same thing over and over again. But to him that’s how he hits his, you know. I mean he he his 3 million err by smart. So but like to me, that’s like, not the kind of business I want to run like he basically is running like a like a sweatshop.
137 00:20:10.510 ⇒ 00:20:10.869 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks, all right.
138 00:20:10.870 ⇒ 00:20:11.304 Robert Tseng: Alright!
139 00:20:11.740 ⇒ 00:20:12.540 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.
140 00:20:12.838 ⇒ 00:20:20.889 Robert Tseng: So to me, that’s just like, yeah, like the the money is there. But then it’s not interesting to me after a certain point. So
141 00:20:21.060 ⇒ 00:20:46.507 Robert Tseng: yeah, I feel like, you know, after I saw that side of the spectrum, and then, you know, met more like full service end to end offering and like their routes. I met another another firm in Austin. They’re actually based in Pakistan. But yeah, I guess they basically do like postgres as a service, like all things postgres. But he started off like just doing something very narrow, and then he ended up wanting to do like full flight. He started to go to go fuller stack.
142 00:20:46.810 ⇒ 00:20:55.538 Robert Tseng: yeah, you ended up getting funding. You kind of like. Went through a more traditional fundraising process like you would see in like a like a venture backed company.
143 00:20:55.840 ⇒ 00:20:56.520 Uttam Kumaran: And see.
144 00:20:56.740 ⇒ 00:21:04.232 Robert Tseng: For his agency. Yeah, the terms are terrible. You have to give up like, like, I think, like 60% of the company for for the.
145 00:21:04.510 ⇒ 00:21:05.909 Uttam Kumaran: What are we talking about?
146 00:21:06.190 ⇒ 00:21:32.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s it’s there because the valuations are lower. You know the multiples like less than half of what you would expect for like a software for like a product company. And then, yeah, anyway, he pretty much just took the money and just hired like a team to fill in these gaps and like tried to like run end to end so. And that’s that’s tough. I feel like that’s like me. If I tried to hire like your your team like on my own, like. Theoretically I don’t. I wouldn’t be able to.
147 00:21:32.660 ⇒ 00:21:45.439 Robert Tseng: I wouldn’t be able to do that. And so that’s why I’ve like not really considered his option either. And you know, I think partnering makes more sense like i i i like, I feel like I have a narrow, like technical
148 00:21:45.490 ⇒ 00:21:51.270 Robert Tseng: skill set because I was. I’m not an engineer by trade. I’m a business person by trade who learn data on the job.
149 00:21:51.610 ⇒ 00:21:55.019 Robert Tseng: know how to talk to business people, and I like making sales.
150 00:21:55.309 ⇒ 00:22:10.119 Robert Tseng: Anything more technical like, I know that I need to find the right person to really be able to like be the like, the technical architect mastermind behind base and so that’s why I felt like you know, what we’ve been doing together has been has been a good. It’s been a good like
151 00:22:10.530 ⇒ 00:22:32.499 Robert Tseng: it could trial for me, because I I think it’s really pushed me to see what happens. If I do have somebody of that caliber working with me. Like, you know, our, yeah, I think, obviously, there are a lot of things that we’ve we’re gonna continue to learn. But but yeah, I think that’s I. I’ve that’s why I’ve been. I’ve been impressed with kind of like, you know, with you and your team, what you brought table and think that like, okay, why, I wanna
152 00:22:32.830 ⇒ 00:22:44.100 Robert Tseng: take the time to really like talk through things and see if this is like kind of how you see it as well. Like, yeah. Is, is there something? Is there something more that we can flush out from here? So
153 00:22:44.210 ⇒ 00:22:47.750 Robert Tseng: that’s that’s my. That’s kind of my what I’ve been thinking about.
154 00:22:48.680 ⇒ 00:22:52.569 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s perfect. I mean overall like I think
155 00:22:52.680 ⇒ 00:23:00.120 Uttam Kumaran: I totally see where you’re coming from in terms of like your engagements, the properties of them based on like, where you’re getting into like
156 00:23:00.190 ⇒ 00:23:12.150 Uttam Kumaran: ideally, my goal was to always go further upstream in terms of enterprise and even there’s some ideas I have in terms of going to specific business domains where customers
157 00:23:12.210 ⇒ 00:23:20.030 Uttam Kumaran: like the churn can be basically 0 right? The only basically the only churn that we’ve had is like A. We worked with a company called Ampla.
158 00:23:20.060 ⇒ 00:23:23.769 Uttam Kumaran: I think Clinton was working with them, and they basically are going out of business.
159 00:23:23.790 ⇒ 00:23:26.510 Uttam Kumaran: Otherwise, like our clients, have just
160 00:23:26.610 ⇒ 00:23:29.099 Uttam Kumaran: been paying us more over time.
161 00:23:29.110 ⇒ 00:23:44.399 Uttam Kumaran: Right? We’ve either we’ve layered on services. Whether that’s like lower on this, where there’s there’s more downstream like analysis, or that’s just expanding something horizontally. And so those are the things that like, I’m trying to figure out like, what’s
162 00:23:44.700 ⇒ 00:23:47.139 Uttam Kumaran: where’s what’s the margin in each piece?
163 00:23:47.331 ⇒ 00:23:52.770 Uttam Kumaran: And like, what do we do? Well, and what do we do wrong? So I think I think you kind of hit on a couple of things. One I think.
164 00:23:52.880 ⇒ 00:24:00.589 Uttam Kumaran: like, I always I always thought, like we like Bradeforce could be the best, like analytics or data consultancy in the market like I have
165 00:24:00.650 ⇒ 00:24:07.110 Uttam Kumaran: a list of all of them. I’ve talked into a lot. I know a lot of people that work in that field don’t think they’re that far from what I do.
166 00:24:07.678 ⇒ 00:24:18.929 Uttam Kumaran: I think they like they’re far in terms of like, yeah. Takes like, take some time to get a team together, but terms of vision, and like how we, how I speak about the business like, I feel like we’re there.
167 00:24:19.386 ⇒ 00:24:24.139 Uttam Kumaran: What what we really and the other thing is access the talent.
168 00:24:24.340 ⇒ 00:24:49.099 Uttam Kumaran: So part of me, like working in the field in this field is that, like, I just made a ton of great engineering friends. And so not only do I have access to a ton of talent, I have access to their friends, and so getting talent and getting people in the door has really just been the chicken egg problem of like, Do I have enough money to pay these guys? But the thing is in data. And in this level of data that there’s a cap on salary which, meaning, like most people, won’t go for more than like 100 bucks an hour.
169 00:24:49.100 ⇒ 00:24:55.570 Uttam Kumaran: Junior people, it’ll be, you know, 50 or less. These contracts. You can push 200 300 400 an hour.
170 00:24:55.610 ⇒ 00:24:57.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the problem is is like
171 00:24:57.630 ⇒ 00:25:11.789 Uttam Kumaran: again. What? When I 1st got into this, I was just like, give me any money right now. I can kind of have a structure where there’s margin and things like that. So I’m devising like what that strategy is. But for me, I know that like, okay. Now, I can actually bias towards getting the best people’s best. Other thing is like.
172 00:25:11.790 ⇒ 00:25:38.109 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna have people that are like us like that are like like Nick, that are like people who can stretch both sides that can communicate really well, can can do these basic things that aren’t like in a sweatsh top mentality where it’s like they have to have every single detail perfectly noted. Tons of process like I can’t re. It’s not only unreliable, it’s like not scalable. And I want a team of like absolutely savages like, I want a team of people who are like.
173 00:25:38.490 ⇒ 00:25:49.219 Uttam Kumaran: who are just could throw into any situation. They could talk and walk and run their way out of and like kind of architect, the team where it’s like, although we may come in for data
174 00:25:49.320 ⇒ 00:26:02.359 Uttam Kumaran: like whatever you need getting done on the technical side, we can find an arrangement whether we bring on somebody, whether we refer you to somebody, whether we find the way to do it. And I want to build it. I want to build like a
175 00:26:02.420 ⇒ 00:26:06.690 Uttam Kumaran: reputation for that. I don’t think going further down, which is like
176 00:26:06.730 ⇒ 00:26:32.639 Uttam Kumaran: hiring like a hundred people in Bangladesh and doing that stuff is the way to go. I think the way to continue to expand your revenue and your margin is by continue to say, like, we are the best right? It’s actually continue to gather those amazing people. And then, do you? They’re able to do 5 x 10 x the amount of work that one of those people are do. They’re amazing to work with in the business where actually, a lot of his communication versus like delivery like, it’s actually
177 00:26:32.640 ⇒ 00:26:37.960 Uttam Kumaran: more communication delivery than if you were in in house somewhere, and like
178 00:26:37.960 ⇒ 00:26:53.120 Uttam Kumaran: I can, I can go in, throw like 10, resumes, be like collectively have X amount of experience doing y amount of things, and I can push that hourly rate up, pushing it hourly down or going cheaper is not the way to win here, and it’s not gonna be sustainable.
179 00:26:53.353 ⇒ 00:27:05.439 Uttam Kumaran: Because, as you add, more people, this thing becomes harder and harder and harder. And that’s what I’ve like really realized. I knew that was the case. And it’s playing out exactly what I thought is like. More people have thrown at it, especially in times where I had to bring on somebody
180 00:27:05.470 ⇒ 00:27:10.839 Uttam Kumaran: at a lower rate, just like fill some gaps. It’s just they’ve they’ve just almost eaten.
181 00:27:11.180 ⇒ 00:27:17.599 Uttam Kumaran: In some cases they’ve almost eaten the margin just in wasting my time in terms of like figuring out requirements and stuff like that.
182 00:27:18.172 ⇒ 00:27:21.567 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s those are the things. And the last thing is like
183 00:27:21.930 ⇒ 00:27:26.969 Uttam Kumaran: on the vendor side. It’s really clinging onto rising ships like there’s a saying where it’s like.
184 00:27:27.000 ⇒ 00:27:28.390 Uttam Kumaran: you know, like
185 00:27:28.510 ⇒ 00:27:41.910 Uttam Kumaran: like rising tides lift all boats. A company like real is a company that’s like gonna blow the fuck up like they just raised a ton of money. We both know the product is really good. There’s an immediate opportunity for me to go in. There. Be like, Yeah, what do you guys need?
186 00:27:41.960 ⇒ 00:27:50.867 Uttam Kumaran: Let me like click like this, like the fish that sits under the shark and eats all the food like. Let me cling on it. I we’re we’re trying to do something with Snowflake. But Snowflake is already a pretty massive fish.
187 00:27:51.362 ⇒ 00:28:13.119 Uttam Kumaran: massive shark. They already got a ton of people leaching onto that. There’s some players in the game that are hungry for people like us, who who are actually implementing their tools, who, because they’re Vc. Back. They don’t care about like spending, and their cap dollars becomes our marketing right? They’re happy to send us clients whenever someone goes to them and say, Do you have an implementation partner like I want us to be referred.
188 00:28:13.460 ⇒ 00:28:29.740 Uttam Kumaran: Great warm referrals where the conversion rates are going to be great. So it’s like, that’s another thing I want to try to do is, find the best vendors in a space that’s very crowded. Where there’s a lot of there’s a lot of like people that are showing products that aren’t great, find the best people partner with them, and then grow with them.
189 00:28:29.860 ⇒ 00:28:50.510 Uttam Kumaran: And then the last thing is like, I’m I thought a lot about like, should we take money or things like that. The only thing I was thinking about is like, there are times where I’m like yo I don’t like. I I put up a lot of good amount of my money to kind of start it, just to pay for my expenses and to get some people. And I was like, maybe I should take out like a little like 100 that 50,000 or $100,000 just to consider like
190 00:28:50.620 ⇒ 00:29:10.990 Uttam Kumaran: paying people every month, and like those like that float. So I’m not just putting everything on credit card. It’s like there’s a little bit longer, and that’s the only thing I would really consider like I did not. Wanna, I don’t want any. Evc. I don’t wanna really work with Vcs like, I don’t wanna be in that game because their incentives are really different. I would consider taking strategic money from
191 00:29:11.120 ⇒ 00:29:26.229 Uttam Kumaran: like a bigger client or like a family office that’s like interested in actually like, okay, how can you guys go from a million to like 10 million right? And there’s some people that I’ve just made friends with, just like, go doing stuff that are like, okay, we’d be interested because I tell them, like, I’m not interested in taking money.
192 00:29:26.370 ⇒ 00:29:38.420 Uttam Kumaran: And then they’re like, okay. But what if we gave you like a little like, do you? Wanna would you offer any amount of your company? And they’re I’m like, no, but I said I would be open to like a loan or something. And then some people are very interested in actually being like
193 00:29:38.560 ⇒ 00:29:49.410 Uttam Kumaran: partnering in the business. But I would do that. Let’s say we like, we wanna go into healthcare, or we have like a healthcare client. Then I would go find, like a family office, that some strategic connections to healthcare be like
194 00:29:49.570 ⇒ 00:29:52.549 Uttam Kumaran: this. Money needs to come with some more than just cash.
195 00:29:53.070 ⇒ 00:29:53.520 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
196 00:29:53.520 ⇒ 00:29:59.969 Uttam Kumaran: If if we’re actually gonna take an investor on, it needs to be like you’re supplementing our marketing side, you’re bringing us new clients.
197 00:30:00.110 ⇒ 00:30:07.331 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s only been in the last month really like. I have not been thinking about that for a long time at all. Where
198 00:30:07.780 ⇒ 00:30:18.850 Uttam Kumaran: all all of our clients on typical have been like 6 months or longer, and are mostly in like the 10 to 20 K range, which means we only need about 6 active to kind of hit
199 00:30:19.080 ⇒ 00:30:21.280 Uttam Kumaran: like that, like
200 00:30:21.350 ⇒ 00:30:28.420 Uttam Kumaran: that. 86 number but of course, like, I always expected there to be some churn, some onboarding the things that we’re really
201 00:30:28.630 ⇒ 00:30:33.179 Uttam Kumaran: tough at is one we’re not going to get any reliable pipeline
202 00:30:33.530 ⇒ 00:30:47.360 Uttam Kumaran: like it’s pipelines. Come to me just like Willy Milly, which is like, I don’t like. Actually, I like that. It’s coming. I don’t like that. It’s not came. It’s unpredictable. So that’s 1 thing we’re not good at, probably just because I’m not spending any
203 00:30:47.380 ⇒ 00:31:01.540 Uttam Kumaran: reasonable amount of time on it today. Like, maybe like a couple of hours a week. You know, I’m dedicating to that. The second thing is like, we don’t have a bunch of great client facing people like, I think I’m probably the best
204 00:31:01.670 ⇒ 00:31:10.469 Uttam Kumaran: there we have some engineers that I thought, we’re good who ended up like who join meetings, and just like Flub it. Nick is really good. I’m planning on bringing another friend that’s really good.
205 00:31:10.510 ⇒ 00:31:16.659 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m trying to buy towards engineers who can do a little bit of both, cause that saves a lot of time from like
206 00:31:16.740 ⇒ 00:31:26.230 Uttam Kumaran: having a project manager. We’re getting into same problem that every agency has, which is project salesperson, project manager. There’s so many hoops takes 2 days to get anything done
207 00:31:26.300 ⇒ 00:31:30.560 Uttam Kumaran: again. I wanna buy towards getting the best people, the best people in our industry need to really talk.
208 00:31:30.640 ⇒ 00:31:35.480 Uttam Kumaran: And in data, it’s not like back in engineering. These guys are worked on business things.
209 00:31:35.570 ⇒ 00:31:37.159 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, be able to talk.
210 00:31:37.170 ⇒ 00:31:41.809 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m trying to think a little bit about like, Are there senior British junior people.
211 00:31:41.910 ⇒ 00:31:47.439 Uttam Kumaran: and that kind of goes into like talent pipeline. So also like, how do I take people who, I could tell.
212 00:31:47.460 ⇒ 00:32:10.260 Uttam Kumaran: need some training, and effectively for no more like money, no more rate increases. Actually just train them to become more senior, whether on the communication side, whether on the execution side. And that way I realize you actually always have to be hiring in this business like, always be thinking about like, who’s the next best person to bring on, because let’s say you were to come to me. Say, Hey, we have 4 clients starting.
213 00:32:10.500 ⇒ 00:32:14.220 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that I have to go bring on the best people right? And instead, it’s like.
214 00:32:14.300 ⇒ 00:32:23.109 Uttam Kumaran: I think I have to always be nurturing like a pipeline of people that are interested in working for us, or that are like interning or something. And basically, how do you make them? A brain forge
215 00:32:23.180 ⇒ 00:32:47.399 Uttam Kumaran: engineer? And the thing that’s actually more, I think, really, really close to your work is that we’re really lacking on the analysis. And like the last mile side for data like my expertise is in modeling as a data engineering. I’ve done a lot of biz. I’ve done a lot of done a good amount of analysis, and I could speak to that really well. But we don’t have great talent in the company. That’s good at that which is an issue, because some of our clients
216 00:32:47.590 ⇒ 00:32:51.130 Uttam Kumaran: they need that last piece, and they’re willing to pay same rate.
217 00:32:51.340 ⇒ 00:32:58.270 Uttam Kumaran: They’re willing to pay the same rate and attach it to the same contract for that workflow. But again, I’m like fuck.
218 00:32:58.450 ⇒ 00:33:17.230 Uttam Kumaran: like we did all the modeling, all the engineering, and just the vis looks like shit. And you’re gonna dog us on that. And so part of the thing like, I brought on a person here in Austin Jacob. Who’s really really good in analysis. And I just don’t have a reliable pipeline for analysts or data vis people.
219 00:33:17.490 ⇒ 00:33:23.929 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m realizing that’s like a really important piece. The thing I’m struggling with is like, what’s the margin there like.
220 00:33:24.000 ⇒ 00:33:26.939 Uttam Kumaran: I think with analysis, it takes a lot of back and forth.
221 00:33:26.940 ⇒ 00:33:27.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
222 00:33:27.330 ⇒ 00:33:29.460 Uttam Kumaran: And so like, do we end up making less?
223 00:33:29.620 ⇒ 00:33:36.306 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just just an assumption I have because of our clients. We haven’t set great boundaries, or basically like, I’ll do whatever
224 00:33:36.860 ⇒ 00:33:41.060 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s where we’re really lacking is like talent on the analysis side.
225 00:33:41.320 ⇒ 00:34:04.860 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s like again. But I think what you bring to the table is like you’re able to get a wedge in and then basically expand to data engineering doing harder things. And let’s say that we do, we? We started marketing. But then I’m like, Okay, what’s going on? Supply chain side, what’s going on in your customer service side? And we have experience working in all those domains. And so it’s easy for me to just go one by one by one by one and continue to work.
226 00:34:06.730 ⇒ 00:34:11.439 Uttam Kumaran: so I just brain dumped a lot about like, Wow, we’re thinking about things good and bad.
227 00:34:12.929 ⇒ 00:34:16.746 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I don’t know if there’s anything there that that stood out.
228 00:34:17.469 ⇒ 00:34:19.129 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, let me know.
229 00:34:19.730 ⇒ 00:34:44.389 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally. I think couple of things that stood out to me. Yeah, one is like, yeah, having reliable pipeline. I think it’s great that you have this reputation now, and that you’re I mean to me like you think, like a good technical leader, because you’re always thinking about who the best talent is to like to to run, run the the level of engagement that you want. I think that’s like a different mindset that what I have. Where? Yeah, I think I’m like.
230 00:34:44.510 ⇒ 00:34:50.769 Robert Tseng: I’m like trying to size like the the problem that problems that I’m talking like I’m talking to a lot of like
231 00:34:50.909 ⇒ 00:35:03.560 Robert Tseng: this is why I’m warming leads like, I have a lot. Most of my leads are outbound, and I think that’s what sometimes surprises people, and I don’t spend that much time. Necessarily. I just have like I feel like I’m pretty diligent about like keeping keeping up with, like
232 00:35:03.650 ⇒ 00:35:29.780 Robert Tseng: the the different, the different campaigns that I have going out on on Linkedin or email, or whatever and also like some some abroad. But anyway, so like for me, it’s like you like from your side. You have, like the implementation, like timeline, the size like how you the complexity like you, you have you, you think about that, and to be. And for me, I feel like I can size a project pretty well like from just like hearing, like the the problems, and like the potential of like what it can be. So
233 00:35:29.780 ⇒ 00:35:34.079 Robert Tseng: I feel like that’d be that’s like a great carrying of like, I don’t. I don’t necessarily.
234 00:35:34.080 ⇒ 00:35:44.589 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Well, anyways, I think that’s that’s like 1 1 thought that came to my mind. And then also like for your, for your an free, for analyst analyst talents. And last month analytics.
235 00:35:44.993 ⇒ 00:35:50.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally think that it’s a different process to engineering it. It’s a lot of it is like
236 00:35:50.360 ⇒ 00:35:56.040 Robert Tseng: back and forth refining requirements. And then a lot of it is like getting in and
237 00:35:56.980 ⇒ 00:36:01.859 Robert Tseng: like with a couple of my clients. Right now, I basically run like weekly analytics, syncs for them, where all their.
238 00:36:01.860 ⇒ 00:36:02.190 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
239 00:36:02.190 ⇒ 00:36:19.499 Robert Tseng: Are on there, and I’m like telling them, not only showing them the different changes that we made to the reports, but then also, what are the questions they should be asking? How do they make make something more actionable? And you definitely need somebody who’s been like an operator on that side to be able to like push that push that conversation. And since, like
240 00:36:19.520 ⇒ 00:36:47.380 Robert Tseng: I I was, I 1st started on like the strategy and growth and growth side before moving into data. I feel like that’s been like a that to me. That’s the feedback that I’ve been got that I’ve received from from clients that they they enjoy that for me, that I’m able to be a thought partner there. And it’s really pushed them to know what to do with the data. So, yeah, I mean, I enjoy at the end of the day, like, I think those are like the 2 things that I feel like I’ve been
241 00:36:47.400 ⇒ 00:36:51.609 Robert Tseng: doing the best at in running running Bungo. One is like
242 00:36:51.790 ⇒ 00:36:59.689 Robert Tseng: really like warming and scoping out the the needs of the company and then getting getting the foot in the door, and then also, like
243 00:36:59.770 ⇒ 00:37:01.530 Robert Tseng: continuously, like
244 00:37:01.700 ⇒ 00:37:11.509 Robert Tseng: like pushing, like taking whatever’s built and trying to get the client to like maximize the hell out of it. And yeah, I think oftentimes like, the bottleneck is like.
245 00:37:11.610 ⇒ 00:37:28.769 Robert Tseng: yeah, technically like, is there? How much more can we do beyond like the the basic implementation of like event data modeling that that that I do and needing that more of that complex state engineering work on the back end. Right? So yeah, I mean to me, it sounds like that. There, there’s like.
246 00:37:29.170 ⇒ 00:37:37.740 Robert Tseng: yeah, I mean, there’s there’s there’s good. There’s good compatibility. There. I want to. I want to run it run like, I wanna, I want to keep giving you more clients and
247 00:37:38.007 ⇒ 00:37:48.822 Robert Tseng: like, ready, like, yeah, just just kind of see how how this, how this works in in different situations, like, I don’t think still is the ideal ideal situation. But but yeah, I think this is what we, what we had.
248 00:37:49.080 ⇒ 00:37:53.900 Uttam Kumaran: I also I also the same way. I think I have an opportunity to bring you on
249 00:37:54.190 ⇒ 00:37:55.740 Uttam Kumaran: some clients.
250 00:37:55.760 ⇒ 00:38:04.729 Uttam Kumaran: for as like on the senior, like analytic side. But this is where, like, I also want to do everything with the notion of like.
251 00:38:05.610 ⇒ 00:38:09.290 Uttam Kumaran: like, I want to train people to become to that level.
252 00:38:09.360 ⇒ 00:38:19.369 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I also think on my contract given. We’ve already gone people 8 on rates like close to 200, or for again, for new clients. I’m going to be pushing past that.
253 00:38:19.500 ⇒ 00:38:25.620 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t. I think, like I can get that same rate for analyst talent. If we’re really really solid.
254 00:38:25.680 ⇒ 00:38:33.460 Uttam Kumaran: right? Because we’ve already got people bought in on our data engineering town, on our data modeling like, I think, even though we may have to, we May.
255 00:38:33.620 ⇒ 00:38:58.239 Uttam Kumaran: we may have talent that like costs a lot less. I can still charge the same rates. So that’s the thing that I really am pushing for is like, if we have great, great people, even the analyst, I can charge close to the data engineering rates. Because it’s all part of the same sort of delivery, and they have the same kind of structure of like communication. And again, I want them to be great. The thing is like, I just sort of have access to that talent. And that’s not my
256 00:38:58.390 ⇒ 00:39:03.119 Uttam Kumaran: really great expertise. And so that’s where I really want to
257 00:39:03.200 ⇒ 00:39:08.089 Uttam Kumaran: like. Think about with you like, how do we like work together on that?
258 00:39:08.375 ⇒ 00:39:16.360 Uttam Kumaran: Like, for example, like the pool parts client, we’ve done a so much modeling for them, so much great data engineering. And just now we’re starting on analysis. But
259 00:39:16.440 ⇒ 00:39:38.600 Uttam Kumaran: they’re even to the point where they’re just like, want us to look at the data and almost be like, find the answers like, Tell us like what to do. It’s so last mile that but then, like they’re trying to, they’re they’re, I know, if we nail that they’re gonna they’ll double the contract. They’ll keep pushing right cause they we made some we like. I myself done some of that work and save them a ton of money. And there’s a lot of opportunity.
260 00:39:38.660 ⇒ 00:39:43.529 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s also just like having this in your back pocket of like some clients may just be data engineering data modeling.
261 00:39:43.640 ⇒ 00:39:54.249 Uttam Kumaran: right? But then I know that if we’re good, they’re gonna ask us, hey, can you also, like we have an analyst who’s not doing great or like I, is there? Any way you guys can just look at the data
262 00:39:54.340 ⇒ 00:40:20.449 Uttam Kumaran: I want, my answer needs to be yes for a price, and then we do it right, and they expect the same level of service in that arena. And that’s what I wanna try try to drive towards so that’d be my 1st ask is like, and I know we initially agreed on like the 10% deal I’m willing to talk about. However, we wanna do this and also like, I wanna ask you like, do you still want longer term to do it? Would you rather like have a team of people you train to go do that.
263 00:40:21.150 ⇒ 00:40:28.469 Uttam Kumaran: And I could talk about how I’m kind of thinking of each engagement and like who’s working on what and my goals. But yeah, that’s kind of what I’m thinking. First.st
264 00:40:28.470 ⇒ 00:40:34.249 Robert Tseng: Got it. Yeah, I mean, I know you kind of sent me like a a question with like a full force client sometime back.
265 00:40:34.250 ⇒ 00:40:42.030 Uttam Kumaran: That one is a wash that was like, think, think, think beyond the weather thing. I’m happy to talk a little bit about kind of some of the things they’re asking. But yeah.
266 00:40:42.030 ⇒ 00:40:42.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
267 00:40:42.860 ⇒ 00:40:54.739 Robert Tseng: So I mean, I think it’d be great, for if I could, if you could do a trial with me and like you like, let me be that last mile person. Yeah, I mean, whatever your rate is with them, like, we’ll we’ll make a way for it.
268 00:40:55.043 ⇒ 00:40:58.599 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Just give. Give me give me a chance to like, like to.
269 00:40:58.620 ⇒ 00:41:03.269 Robert Tseng: to to produce something. And then, if you if you like, the quality of the work there?
270 00:41:03.759 ⇒ 00:41:09.959 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I can. We can. We can figure out like how to hire hire people to do that. I think,
271 00:41:10.580 ⇒ 00:41:31.849 Robert Tseng: yeah, what I found from like trying to sell analytics like 150 is like the Max that I’m able to to close like I I have not been able to close a deal above 150. Yeah, like, even like I, I mean, I just bumped it up like in this quarter. And I’ve been selling it, trying to sell at 150. I I only close 2 clients at 1 50. And like, and yeah, so
272 00:41:31.920 ⇒ 00:41:48.400 Robert Tseng: I I think it’s there is something to be said about like when you start off with your work, and they know that that and you can keep the that rate. It is very much like once you have that number. It just is anchor to that, but it’s I’ve just I I don’t know. I I’ve I’ve just not been able to to solve.
273 00:41:48.400 ⇒ 00:42:03.880 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not so. And unfortunately, like, I’m not surprised because it is tough, like, if you look at market rates for analysts, I I don’t think what you Google for is what’s accurate for every analyst but the nice thing is on data engineering. The baseline is high.
274 00:42:04.415 ⇒ 00:42:04.640 Robert Tseng: Hi!
275 00:42:04.640 ⇒ 00:42:17.900 Uttam Kumaran: Even though, even though again, I think there are half a million are data engineers. I think there are like 20 K data engineers. I think same thing happens in analysis, like my thing is like, I actually don’t think analyst should be paid less. I think there are just probably more shitty analysts
276 00:42:17.950 ⇒ 00:42:31.460 Uttam Kumaran: like, you know, or or maybe not. Maybe it’s the same ratio of shitty like the good ones. But, like either way, I don’t wanna pay. I don’t wanna have to be like cool like, it’s $50 an analyst. So we’re gonna charge you 75. It’s like, no, we’ve hired the best
277 00:42:31.540 ⇒ 00:42:43.379 Uttam Kumaran: of the best. And you know how we do that, we pay everybody 100. And so we’ve gotten the best people. And then I’m gonna charge you 200, because you’re gonna get the great, you’re gonna get the best analyst work to get like the best state engineering work like.
278 00:42:43.530 ⇒ 00:43:06.919 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a lot of really really pretty good and paid engineers. I don’t think there’s a lot of really really great analysts. I really don’t cause I haven’t met a lot of them. I don’t know where they are. Most analysts I met are like again, people that are like on the operation side, but they don’t have like some sequel knowledge. And this is the thing where it’s like, am I either? Don’t. Am I either like don’t have, have not met them, or do they not exist? Cause, then it’s a decision of like cool. Do we have to train those people, or like
279 00:43:07.050 ⇒ 00:43:16.710 Uttam Kumaran: we need to go find them? Because this, the thing I realize is like, even though I think I’m really good. I think you’re really good. It’s like, doesn’t it? Doesn’t. It doesn’t end with us.
280 00:43:16.740 ⇒ 00:43:23.129 Uttam Kumaran: So my job is to like, go find those people that I can go convince someone to pay us 300 for.
281 00:43:23.150 ⇒ 00:43:24.800 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Yeah. And if I can, even
282 00:43:24.840 ⇒ 00:43:52.499 Uttam Kumaran: how the comments of going to meetings saying that straight face right like that’s also the thing right? And again, I know that if you have those types of people, those guys will be able to work 2 things at the same time, like they can. Even them being there will improve everybody. Our processes improve like it’s a very compounding effect. And like, that’s what I want to go use. Use the money for is to really be the best in quality, like I think we’ll be able to increase rates. And again, like
283 00:43:52.500 ⇒ 00:44:08.090 Uttam Kumaran: you don’t increase the you don’t like. There’s no one in data that’s gonna be making like more than 100 50 an hour, not running their own business. There are people that are like they’re working for someone, because that’s that’s who they are. And they’re gonna be happy with that. And we can scale the upward rates. So
284 00:44:08.120 ⇒ 00:44:10.310 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the thing I want to think about is like.
285 00:44:10.950 ⇒ 00:44:17.200 Uttam Kumaran: like, how do we get those people, and like, I think, doing it from this angle, as you mentioned, is working really well.
286 00:44:17.860 ⇒ 00:44:18.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
287 00:44:19.970 ⇒ 00:44:20.820 Robert Tseng: Okay.
288 00:44:22.410 ⇒ 00:44:24.599 Robert Tseng: cool. Then I think, just like to
289 00:44:24.900 ⇒ 00:44:28.287 Robert Tseng: think about like, kind of what? What do we do from here?
290 00:44:28.570 ⇒ 00:44:31.350 Uttam Kumaran: I guess the other thing I wanted to talk about was on the sales side.
291 00:44:31.923 ⇒ 00:44:34.609 Uttam Kumaran: So one. So one is, I think.
292 00:44:35.081 ⇒ 00:44:39.859 Uttam Kumaran: and this is where, like, I don’t know. I I would like to think about how to do this.
293 00:44:39.970 ⇒ 00:44:49.309 Uttam Kumaran: and they should create like a kind of like, how do we do this across? How do I make anybody who wants to sell for brain forge, or sell brain force into something in it like more like
294 00:44:49.630 ⇒ 00:45:07.460 Uttam Kumaran: it. It work better, for everyone’s like, I don’t. I think we can get something that isn’t 10. We can work higher, think about a structure. But certainly I want there to be a process by which, like you get materials, you have support, and there’s ability for you to close this portion of the deal, and that everybody wins
295 00:45:07.460 ⇒ 00:45:29.870 Uttam Kumaran: right like, whether it is 10% of future, whether there is like an initial fee like, and I think that could be handled on like kind of like a joint venture situation where it’s like, if we do a deal together, there’s some process additionally like, I want you to have access to, like all of our support project management process, whatever you need, tools, vendor relationships. And there’s certainly a value to that. So.
296 00:45:29.880 ⇒ 00:45:35.579 Uttam Kumaran: and I kind of want this to be the trial period where it’s like cool. If we go to another agency is like, we only do data science.
297 00:45:35.920 ⇒ 00:45:39.754 Uttam Kumaran: how can I make. How can I? How is considered what’s like a great like
298 00:45:40.130 ⇒ 00:45:49.856 Uttam Kumaran: partnership? We can do with them to say, like, if they’re selling data engineering brain forge as a person you should sell, because it’s not only like we’re gonna execute to your standard quality, but also like there’s some lucrative
299 00:45:50.200 ⇒ 00:46:17.779 Uttam Kumaran: you know portion of that that people are happy with. And so I certainly wanna think of that like, I know, if you bring us clients, I wanna make sure you get paid, and you’re compensated for that. And then I also wanna make it something that we can work on together. Because the thing that I I mentioned. I have. The toughest part is on the sales side, because one not spending enough time doing it, and 2, it’s like it’s tough. It takes a lot of time. So I want to be able to work with you closer on a weekly basis on these nurturing, these deals, getting these to the finish line.
300 00:46:17.780 ⇒ 00:46:23.060 Uttam Kumaran: and I wanna make it so that like it’s worth both of our times to to spend that, you know. So
301 00:46:23.070 ⇒ 00:46:26.159 Uttam Kumaran: those are the 2 sides that I’m that I’m thinking about are from.
302 00:46:26.740 ⇒ 00:46:30.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally on the on the sales side, I think
303 00:46:30.340 ⇒ 00:46:52.229 Robert Tseng: the timelines for, like enterprise clients, from what I’ve I’ve seen now, like, maybe like. Well, I have one that I that I’m trying to close next week. Well, so we’ll see how it goes. But this one I’ve been nurturing for like since the beginning of the year. So it’s been almost 2 quarters. And we’re like finally getting to a point where I know they’re evaluating one other vendor, and then it’s just between me and him. So I think we’re gonna we’ll see what comes down to there.
304 00:46:52.596 ⇒ 00:46:58.489 Robert Tseng: So I can’t to me. I can’t just bank my entire sales strategy or enterprise, because it’s just way, too way too long.
305 00:46:59.057 ⇒ 00:47:13.039 Robert Tseng: And so yeah, most of my pipeline, all my inbound that comes in is like less than 10 million revenue. They. They find me through up work, they find me through like clients from upwork that referred me, or whatever like that’s that’s just I get. I just get those
306 00:47:13.060 ⇒ 00:47:17.320 Robert Tseng: those those types of like smaller, smaller clients. They’re like series a or earlier
307 00:47:18.218 ⇒ 00:47:43.690 Robert Tseng: and then my outbound, my typical outbound is more focused on between that series. A series B stage. If you want to think from like side, if they’re not venture back, then, at least like between 1050,000,000 revenue like, I’m trying to go after them. They don’t have a fully fledged data team. Yet, if anything, they have a 1st data hire who’s just a total misfit because the person who hired them was their head of finance or head of product. We didn’t know who, what what they were hiring for.
308 00:47:43.720 ⇒ 00:47:57.570 Robert Tseng: And so, yeah, I think that’s you know, those are the calls that I feel like would be worth bringing you in on those an enterprise like higher to enterprise. Where, if if I qualify a lead at like that, 10 million to 50 million revenue range like.
309 00:47:57.570 ⇒ 00:48:20.919 Robert Tseng: and and they fit that persona. I’d love to loop you in earlier, because I think there is a there’s a good case to be made and and and trying to get get you in, or to to to bring on something more complex from the start. So yeah, I think that’s that’s kind of where I think like in the in my sales funnel that I’ve seen so far like that’s where I feel like would be a sweet spot to to try to to get you in. Engage a lot earlier.
310 00:48:21.228 ⇒ 00:48:32.659 Robert Tseng: Otherwise, like the smaller ones like, I think it’ll just keep it the same. It’s like they’ll come to me like I’ll do the initial engagement. If they do wanna like level up then, like I’ll I’ll bring you in like as an ongoing engagement.
311 00:48:33.301 ⇒ 00:48:34.810 Robert Tseng: And on the Enterprise side.
312 00:48:34.810 ⇒ 00:48:35.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
313 00:48:35.280 ⇒ 00:48:41.540 Robert Tseng: Yeah, there’s more time we can. We can talk about those all. I I’m happy to keep you in the loop on that or or earlier, as well.
314 00:48:41.540 ⇒ 00:48:53.369 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where I have some. So I have some enterprise clients, and like a variety of industries that I’m like nurturing or starting to nurture. But this is where, like, I really need some strategic help
315 00:48:53.630 ⇒ 00:49:06.610 Uttam Kumaran: from, like a person just like you cause we don’t have any other people internally, that I’m really turning to. For like strategic thinking about how to price these, what are the opportunities and like working through? But again, when I hop on the phone with
316 00:49:06.640 ⇒ 00:49:15.220 Uttam Kumaran: like these Ceos, or like people, you know, like a conversation goes everywhere. And I’m not gonna be the 1st person to be like, oh, we don’t touch that.
317 00:49:15.270 ⇒ 00:49:16.939 Uttam Kumaran: But my bias was like.
318 00:49:17.050 ⇒ 00:49:24.050 Uttam Kumaran: let’s keep. Put it all on the plate. I’m gonna go. I’m gonna take this back and go make some phone calls and then come back to you with a proposal.
319 00:49:24.160 ⇒ 00:49:28.259 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for those things. I really really need some support. For example, like
320 00:49:28.280 ⇒ 00:49:34.799 Uttam Kumaran: a friend of mine in town here. He’s working on some Houston he’s working with some Houston based
321 00:49:35.185 ⇒ 00:49:40.019 Uttam Kumaran: like pipe manufacturers for for big oil. And he’s like he wants to sell.
322 00:49:40.020 ⇒ 00:50:01.420 Uttam Kumaran: He. He’s basically like A, a head of product like a Cpo for hire. He’s developed. He’s designed for them like their new b 2 b e-commerce page honestly kind of similar to like, probably what S. Fab or O’neil has to sell their things to other buyers. And so he built that he designed a new one. They just brought him into build it. And then, of course, he’s like, Do, there’s gonna be an analytics component to this. I wanna bring you in on that.
323 00:50:01.420 ⇒ 00:50:10.390 Uttam Kumaran: on that one, too. I’m like, Okay, we need some help scoping. But then but then I also talked to him. I was like dude. I want to go sell this to every single pipe manufacturer in the Us.
324 00:50:10.560 ⇒ 00:50:15.840 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s the thing where it’s like, okay, we need like, we need some dedicated like weekly
325 00:50:16.020 ⇒ 00:50:19.740 Uttam Kumaran: calls about like, who should we go after? How do we get in like strategic? But
326 00:50:19.780 ⇒ 00:50:25.559 Uttam Kumaran: those maybe like 50 KA month contracts where I’m like, we need to throw like 2 people dedicated at this.
327 00:50:25.600 ⇒ 00:50:28.460 Uttam Kumaran: like, you know. And so those are the things where.
328 00:50:28.510 ⇒ 00:50:29.620 Uttam Kumaran: like I’ve
329 00:50:29.790 ⇒ 00:50:33.460 Uttam Kumaran: I have ends into. It’s just like
330 00:50:33.490 ⇒ 00:50:54.900 Uttam Kumaran: figuring out how to nurture that and really dedicating time. Because this is what this is what I’m saying for that one. I’m also they wanna bring it. He’s like I wanna bring in real cause. I showed him real. He played around his laptop, pulled it up for the for the CEO and the Ceos like a billionaire. And Dixie is like what the fuck like. We need this, and he’s like cool dude. I got him. But here’s the thing like, then I wanna call real. I wanna be like real. We have someone on a hook.
331 00:50:54.910 ⇒ 00:50:56.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this field.
332 00:50:56.310 ⇒ 00:51:09.469 Uttam Kumaran: So I not only need your help to give us like a free poc. I need whatever resources you can help me with in the sales side or the engineering side, because they may have security strains. Blah, blah, blah real. I also need you to tell me who else in manufacturing
333 00:51:09.760 ⇒ 00:51:12.519 Uttam Kumaran: you have that that you can bring us in on
334 00:51:12.560 ⇒ 00:51:32.330 Uttam Kumaran: right like that’s the those are the things I wanna be like. Bring us in on every manufacturing client you have or like. Is there anyone in manufacturing that you’ve talked to that like we should maybe try to re-engage for you cause the guys are real. That, he clearly told me, is like we just need new Logos. Only thing is new Logos. He’s like, I don’t care about anything else. And I’m like, perfect
335 00:51:32.330 ⇒ 00:51:50.900 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so this is where, like they have some need. We have some symbiotic need, and like we can go after. But again, it’s like cool. I have to set up a call with grill. Then I have to call this guy. Then I have to think about like, Okay, how do we want to market? Then I have to provide him with some materials, I’ll get on other phones. It’s a lot of work, right? And so that’s where I think some strategic help from
336 00:51:51.120 ⇒ 00:52:09.430 Uttam Kumaran: from you which is like even analyst work or not analyst work. I think just even as like help on the sales side, there’s some opportunity and some need, that I certainly have to think about how we want to run these deals. I, of course, have a lot of knowledge on the data engineering side. A lot of these hopefully also need a lot of analyst work.
337 00:52:09.460 ⇒ 00:52:19.780 Uttam Kumaran: Either way. I think there’s an arrangement we can come to is like, if you’re working a deal, there’s some fee, and then there’s also like a fee. If you end up, if you’re if we if it closes, there’s some fee, and then there’s also
338 00:52:19.810 ⇒ 00:52:22.560 Uttam Kumaran: some split. If you end up doing the work or something.
339 00:52:22.580 ⇒ 00:52:24.329 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where. Like, I really because
340 00:52:24.510 ⇒ 00:52:36.030 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like us, we’re both really, really good at this sort of closing game, and we can go after some some bigger fish together and hopefully sell them on the full stack, or at least again get one of us in.
341 00:52:36.180 ⇒ 00:52:38.740 Uttam Kumaran: and then like, continue to to go from there.
342 00:52:38.910 ⇒ 00:52:43.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, that sounds fun. I I, yeah, that’s that’s that’s that’s
343 00:52:44.030 ⇒ 00:52:47.290 Robert Tseng: that’s why that’s why I want to be spending more time doing. So yeah, yeah.
344 00:52:47.290 ⇒ 00:52:50.519 Uttam Kumaran: And again, these are a little bit tougher. But like again, I’m like.
345 00:52:50.710 ⇒ 00:53:06.810 Uttam Kumaran: even with the pool parts thing. I’m like, Okay, we’ve we’ve done a work for a year. They’ve given us a good amount of money, I’m like, where else can we take this sort of like learnings? And it’s again that that’s like I would I’d need to learn. I wanna learn more about like your outbound process like, how do we scale a little about that up and
346 00:53:06.870 ⇒ 00:53:11.325 Uttam Kumaran: like again, like I’m I’m ready to push this thing and
347 00:53:12.060 ⇒ 00:53:15.400 Uttam Kumaran: like I wanna work with someone like you who it’s not. It’s not
348 00:53:15.640 ⇒ 00:53:27.549 Uttam Kumaran: like, you know, although I think you like I I don’t I. It’s hard. It would be hard for me to hire like a full time. Sdr. And do this, and I don’t want the incentives to be set up that way. I would rather it be kind of like this, and then we we do this until we get to the next
349 00:53:27.956 ⇒ 00:53:31.970 Uttam Kumaran: milestone, you know. So that’s those are the 2 things I’m really thinking about is like.
350 00:53:32.040 ⇒ 00:53:35.590 Uttam Kumaran: if I can bring you in either to help
351 00:53:35.780 ⇒ 00:53:47.770 Uttam Kumaran: to kind of build out like our analyst function almost, but also like, if if you have bandwidth to do work that would be amazing, too, and then second is on this, on the pure sales side.
352 00:53:48.230 ⇒ 00:54:05.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, as far as like, kind of helping build something either in house or just doing analysts work for you. I mean I would. I wanted to explore that. I think I have bandwidth right now. I think that’d be. It’d be good to do to me. It’s just like if I were to just not take another contract and just work on one of yours, I think that would that would make sense
353 00:54:06.361 ⇒ 00:54:18.700 Robert Tseng: and then on the sales side. Yeah, let’s let’s talk. We should have more, like, you know, weekly weekly chats about. Yeah, I think that’s just like something we should set up right away, and we’ll see how we can fit each other into that.
354 00:54:19.350 ⇒ 00:54:22.959 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let’s let’s do that. For the next.
355 00:54:22.970 ⇒ 00:54:31.459 Uttam Kumaran: for let’s let’s someone up for next week, and then I’ll come prepared with some of the stuff thinking about with this gas plan. And we can take that because that’s literally the next big thing I have to
356 00:54:31.930 ⇒ 00:54:52.280 Uttam Kumaran: try and like kind of figure out. I’m in the middle of like a couple of different people. And so I wanna kind of see something through there. And there’s a couple of the opportunities. I’ll just kind of spit ball. I’ll kind of just tell you about everything that’s kind of like running around in my head on the sales side and some are more. Some are unrealistic, some are more realistic. So we can just kind of go from there.
357 00:54:52.820 ⇒ 00:54:53.160 Robert Tseng: Okay.
358 00:54:53.160 ⇒ 00:54:57.799 Uttam Kumaran: And then on this on the analyst side. So maybe I’ll just set some time up
359 00:54:58.380 ⇒ 00:55:01.929 Uttam Kumaran: like I don’t know. I mean, I would do mondays, like I kinda like doing this on Mondays.
360 00:55:02.610 ⇒ 00:55:03.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we’ll see. Monday.
361 00:55:04.880 ⇒ 00:55:06.639 Uttam Kumaran: What do you? What time do you think?
362 00:55:13.930 ⇒ 00:55:15.839 Robert Tseng: Can you do? Morning?
363 00:55:16.900 ⇒ 00:55:17.420 Robert Tseng: I can.
364 00:55:17.420 ⇒ 00:55:17.990 Uttam Kumaran: Do.
365 00:55:17.990 ⇒ 00:55:19.210 Robert Tseng: Gotcha? Yeah.
366 00:55:19.210 ⇒ 00:55:28.750 Uttam Kumaran: I would prefer afternoon, because I usually just stack anything team related in the morning, and for another for another few more for another few weeks. It’s I’m still gonna kinda be
367 00:55:28.900 ⇒ 00:55:33.860 Uttam Kumaran: poking my head in and out until things like really are on autopilot. So
368 00:55:34.100 ⇒ 00:55:37.070 Uttam Kumaran: okay, maybe we just do like afternoon for an hour.
369 00:55:37.100 ⇒ 00:55:38.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for now and then.
370 00:55:39.810 ⇒ 00:55:40.490 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool.
371 00:55:40.490 ⇒ 00:55:49.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I can do like, I guess, same time as our as our Sync, which is like 2 Pm. Thursday with or sorry E. Eastern. I can. I can do 2 Pm. Eastern.
372 00:55:49.390 ⇒ 00:55:50.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
373 00:55:57.010 ⇒ 00:55:58.070 Uttam Kumaran: perfect.
374 00:56:02.140 ⇒ 00:56:05.630 Uttam Kumaran: This is great timing. Everything is getting better.
375 00:56:09.630 ⇒ 00:56:19.789 Uttam Kumaran: okay, great. And then on the analyst side. So I’m just now, like, I’m literally about to get get into conversation like after like an hour or 2, about
376 00:56:19.800 ⇒ 00:56:25.839 Uttam Kumaran: kind of sort of like reactor architecting like our team, and like having pretty well defined roles, and
377 00:56:26.425 ⇒ 00:56:36.200 Uttam Kumaran: also for nico sanity like, who can do what? Who needs to be able to do what and like senior analyst versus Junior, ae versus like
378 00:56:36.210 ⇒ 00:56:49.269 Uttam Kumaran: how we need on what client. And so by Monday or Tuesday, I should have a much better understanding of like where our gaps are, and then maybe I’ll just say, like, Here are the clients where we need analyst help. Here’s what we need
379 00:56:50.130 ⇒ 00:56:51.320 Uttam Kumaran: and
380 00:56:51.830 ⇒ 00:56:57.460 Uttam Kumaran: like. I’ll just give you a couple of problems that you can take a look at. I’ll also give you the kind of the scope of the client
381 00:56:57.620 ⇒ 00:56:58.700 Uttam Kumaran: for
382 00:56:58.760 ⇒ 00:57:05.379 Uttam Kumaran: it’ll it’ll honestly, it’s gonna be probably majority on pool parts. And then, again, if we nail the analyst side of that.
383 00:57:05.500 ⇒ 00:57:08.310 Uttam Kumaran: they’ll really lean into us more for hours.
384 00:57:08.630 ⇒ 00:57:13.600 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve just fumbled the ball a little bit on the on the analyst and database side.
385 00:57:15.410 ⇒ 00:57:20.034 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s getting better now that we have like a guy, Jacob here.
386 00:57:20.730 ⇒ 00:57:23.799 Uttam Kumaran: But like, I really wanna just have it well defined because
387 00:57:23.830 ⇒ 00:57:39.082 Uttam Kumaran: they’re like CEO, they don’t. They like they’re like so anti process. They’re just like, tell me the answer, like, we’re trying to do these 10 things like, you have all the data we’ll invest where we’ll just make decisions. And so I’m interested to see like how you think we should handle that. So
388 00:57:39.360 ⇒ 00:57:39.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
389 00:57:39.830 ⇒ 00:57:46.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let’s plan on. Let’s plan on that. So let’s plan on talking on Monday about this oil and gas thing, and then maybe a little bit after, and then
390 00:57:46.850 ⇒ 00:57:48.300 Uttam Kumaran: on the analyst stuff.
391 00:57:48.300 ⇒ 00:57:49.651 Robert Tseng: Okay, that sounds good.
392 00:57:51.240 ⇒ 00:57:58.630 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, sick man, this is a great conversation. I’m like, so energized. So I think we have. We have Stella next and maybe catch up with
393 00:57:59.120 ⇒ 00:58:02.670 Uttam Kumaran: with Nick for a sec otherwise should be good to go.
394 00:58:02.870 ⇒ 00:58:05.720 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, let’s jump into that alright talk to you soon.
395 00:58:06.400 ⇒ 00:58:07.440 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Alright!