Meeting Title: Uttam-Kumaran <> Nicolas-Sucari Date: 2024-05-01 Meeting participants: Nicolas Sucari, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:34.050 ⇒ 00:00:35.340 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? How’s it going.
2 00:00:35.850 ⇒ 00:00:37.689 Nicolas Sucari: Hi, you, Tom! How are you?
3 00:00:37.690 ⇒ 00:00:38.860 Uttam Kumaran: Good! How are you?
4 00:00:39.570 ⇒ 00:00:41.020 Nicolas Sucari: I’m fine. Thanks.
5 00:00:41.410 ⇒ 00:00:47.633 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks for the flexibility yesterday. Sorry, I’ve just been traveling last week, and I just like fell a little sick, so.
6 00:00:48.480 ⇒ 00:00:50.220 Nicolas Sucari: No no problem, though.
7 00:00:50.890 ⇒ 00:00:52.200 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything going.
8 00:00:53.380 ⇒ 00:00:58.672 Nicolas Sucari: Everything’s great. It’s a national holiday today here in Argentina. So it’s nice.
9 00:00:59.260 ⇒ 00:01:02.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I heard. Thank you for doing some work today.
10 00:01:03.340 ⇒ 00:01:04.209 Nicolas Sucari: That’s great!
11 00:01:04.440 ⇒ 00:01:06.793 Uttam Kumaran: I appreciate hopefully. You could take the rest of the day off.
12 00:01:09.090 ⇒ 00:01:10.160 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, I think so.
13 00:01:10.390 ⇒ 00:01:13.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just wanted to talk a little bit about
14 00:01:13.650 ⇒ 00:01:20.419 Uttam Kumaran: brain forge and tell you a little bit more about the company, but also definitely have a few questions about you and your background.
15 00:01:20.806 ⇒ 00:01:23.066 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I’ll just get started
16 00:01:24.350 ⇒ 00:01:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: again. My name is Utah. I am the owner of Brain Forge. We’re a data analytics consultancy based in the Us.
17 00:01:32.154 ⇒ 00:01:43.519 Uttam Kumaran: I currently live in Austin, Texas. But the team is a little bit scattered. Across the Us and across the world a little bit. We have about 5 people on the team
18 00:01:43.888 ⇒ 00:02:06.739 Uttam Kumaran: and basically, we help people stand up data, analytics infrastructure. So we go to companies and we help them measure their businesses, whether it’s their web products, their supply chain, their sales or finance. We kind of work with them to understand what key kpis they wanna measure. And we bring in data, warehouses, databases, Vi tools, things like that.
19 00:02:07.091 ⇒ 00:02:21.370 Uttam Kumaran: That’s my background. So that’s what I’ve done as a data engineer. For a number of years. And then last year I decided to kind of start the business and try to go get leads and have a couple of clients that we operate on.
20 00:02:22.500 ⇒ 00:02:26.439 Uttam Kumaran: so I would say, this role is probably like second to the
21 00:02:26.500 ⇒ 00:02:36.716 Uttam Kumaran: first person I hire just to do engineering where it’s probably the the most important role we’re kind of hiring for. Because I think, really, what this role allows is a couple of things. One
22 00:02:37.000 ⇒ 00:02:59.969 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not like the best project manager, and I’ve been doing a lot of that as I’ve been kind of like having people do the engineering work. And now I’m kind of doing project management. So one is giving them a lot more support than I have, especially on the organization side. Second, is giving our clients a lot more support, which is what work is getting done when it’s being delivered. The communication
23 00:03:00.249 ⇒ 00:03:16.759 Uttam Kumaran: lot, lots of room for improvement. And third, is just really being like a partner to me, as like managing the day to day of the company. We don’t have any salespeople. We don’t have any marketing people yet. It’s a really young company. So that’s where my next kind of mission is is to go get us
24 00:03:17.130 ⇒ 00:03:28.130 Uttam Kumaran: more clients and bring us more leads. And if I’m if I’m kind of doing the day to day and managing like 5 projects. It gets really tough for me to go, you know. Have those meetings and get.
25 00:03:28.130 ⇒ 00:03:28.560 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
26 00:03:28.560 ⇒ 00:03:53.859 Uttam Kumaran: Clients. And so that’s pretty much where we’re at is. I’m like the biggest blocker right now. And so as like the kind of as the owner. I’m really mindful of where my time is going. But also, what’s the most important thing the company needs? And there’s definitely a lot of room for improvement on the day to day management of the engineers and what they’re working on. But also the reporting of like, what’s our capacity for for work.
27 00:03:54.416 ⇒ 00:04:11.190 Uttam Kumaran: And they also understand the skill set of the engineers like, who’s really doing well, who needs? Who needs more help? And then the last thing is the most important thing is it’s the reason why we’re in business is for the customers. You know, I always want to feel like we’re over exceeding expectations. I want people to feel like
28 00:04:11.840 ⇒ 00:04:38.803 Uttam Kumaran: W. Wanna see that we’re cheap, like, I want people to feel like we’re really demonstrated a ton of value for them. And in in client services that can happen in multiple ways. Just that. Executing the work is one thing, but really communicating heavily, understanding what their next problem is. And being able to translate that to the engineering team, I think, is super important. We’ve been doing a pretty good job. But again I know my limits, and I know this is Tom tons of room for improvement.
29 00:04:39.090 ⇒ 00:04:51.028 Uttam Kumaran: The nice thing is, all the engineers are pretty pretty good. There’s no like junior people. So everybody’s familiar with project management and how to work in a team. So that’s been really great.
30 00:04:51.650 ⇒ 00:05:10.280 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, that’s a little bit about the company and and and where we’re at, and the role but I I I’ve listened to a little bit about your your initial interview, but would love to just hear from you a little bit about your background and your interest in the role. And yeah, and we can kind of start from there.
31 00:05:11.190 ⇒ 00:05:22.980 Nicolas Sucari: Excellent. Okay, thank you very much for sharing. Really, really interesting. When I heard about Brain Forge, I started looking for like the websites of the company and the information that I
32 00:05:23.452 ⇒ 00:05:44.699 Nicolas Sucari: what I could find, and it wasn’t too much. So yeah, probably what what you just shared cleared for me some thoughts or something that I was thinking so thank you very much. My introduction, or my name is Nicholas. I live in Argentina. I live in Buenos Aires. I’m 30 years old.
33 00:05:44.700 ⇒ 00:05:58.329 Nicolas Sucari: I live with my girlfriend right now. And I’ve been working in it. Project management A as an It project manager for the last 6 or 7 years right now, I think.
34 00:05:58.763 ⇒ 00:06:21.329 Nicolas Sucari: I’ve been in the this area of it for the past year. 8 or 9 years. Almost right now. I started working in in a bank in the transform. Yeah, in transforming all of these processes and the different initiatives that the bank has to something more. Digital.
35 00:06:21.717 ⇒ 00:06:48.810 Nicolas Sucari: So I started like my knowledge of all of these it data and all that stuff in the bank. It was like, yeah, 6 or 7 years ago, and I and I, I’m a business an administrator business. How how about in administration of of business? So my, my field doesn’t relate too much with it. And the digital area of all of the companies.
36 00:06:48.820 ⇒ 00:07:17.139 Nicolas Sucari: But as I started working in the bank in that area, I I started to dig in into these kind of agile methodologies all of the different roles in order to lead different teams with projects with it projects and not it projects. So I learned a lot of different things in order to how to manage well, projects and how to keep the team organized, probably. With different methodologies on how to accomplish different goals.
37 00:07:17.566 ⇒ 00:07:22.770 Nicolas Sucari: So for the last 3 years, almost now, I’ve been working in at Lightbox.
38 00:07:22.770 ⇒ 00:07:47.600 Nicolas Sucari: At box is a software development company. My role. There is a project manager, and to keep all of the projects on track, and to deliver the the right product or the the right service that our our client is looking for. I am the first person who communicates with the clients. I am like the client facing role that the company has. I keep the. I try to keep all the communications
39 00:07:47.770 ⇒ 00:08:12.620 Nicolas Sucari: as easier as possible. We use slack for a lot of communication. That is a great tool. But also, I, I, I communicate with the clients through email, through different meets and through different yeah, other tools that we have so that we can keep everything on track, and we can add value, as you said to each of our clients. I really like managing or or having this role. But also, I like to understand what is
40 00:08:12.620 ⇒ 00:08:36.434 Nicolas Sucari: client trying to do with their product so that I can help. So the kind of the product management also, is something that I’m really into. And I try to understand, because when I understand what the client is trying to do I can think better options for better solutions for the product that they are. They are facing and I try my teams to do the same. So if the client is
41 00:08:36.740 ⇒ 00:08:58.910 Nicolas Sucari: asking us to do something, or they want to improve some area of their their work that they are doing. I try to take that understand it and take it to the team so that they can. They, they can work for it and we can add even more value than what we are supposed to do right? So my background is kind of that. I worked in different
42 00:08:58.910 ⇒ 00:09:23.600 Nicolas Sucari: software development companies. One another one called it Tesa would have other clients. We developed application web pages at lightbox. Now we develop the same. We develop software, all kind of software E, even though the product of of of our clients. We develop web pages, we develop a applications, mobile applications. And yeah, so I I kind of have that sense of
43 00:09:23.680 ⇒ 00:09:42.999 Nicolas Sucari: and knowing how a development team works and and how are the times of different things. So I can try to keep everyone on track and all. As you said, obviously, the communication with the clients is is the key points, because when we understand what they are looking for and when they are looking for it.
44 00:09:43.487 ⇒ 00:09:48.260 Nicolas Sucari: We can add the the most value from us. Right?
45 00:09:48.320 ⇒ 00:10:07.229 Nicolas Sucari: So that’s my background. As I said before, I worked in a bank. That’s how I started my digging into this digital areas and and development side of things in terms of data. I’ve worked in in different projects with a lot of data, even though I’m not like the first person
46 00:10:07.230 ⇒ 00:10:25.689 Nicolas Sucari: like trying to achieve those K Kpis, because that’s almost all the Times with in the in a software development company. It’s not from like this, the ones that are providing the service of development. But it’s more of the company. I, as I said, I like the product. So I’d like to understand the insights so that I know where we need to focus
47 00:10:26.008 ⇒ 00:10:38.420 Nicolas Sucari: and where we need to to to to push a little further so that we can develop a anything like a little bit better so understanding that right? Kpis is key for us. So that I know.
48 00:10:38.719 ⇒ 00:11:06.290 Nicolas Sucari: what is the product? If the product is gonna work, what where we need to test different things. I work with different clients that work a lot with data, with, I don’t know with ads Linkedin in Facebook ads, and that all the stuff. So they have a lot of information of their clients, and they let us see all those information so that we can understand the bounce rates and different stuff so that we can think of different ideas in order to develop better things.
49 00:11:06.590 ⇒ 00:11:31.809 Nicolas Sucari: so yeah, that’s kind of my background. I really I I really liked the brain forge. I I don’t know how how to say is like a Pdf. With the information of what you what you’re trying to to communicate to clients what you’re trying to solve. It’s really interesting. And probably you can tell me a little bit more of. I don’t know what is kind of a project, or or what do you do for clients? You understand one Kpi, and go further with it.
50 00:11:31.970 ⇒ 00:11:57.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, definitely. And you know, again, the website is probably what we could get done. We’re coming up with a whole brand new website a lot of things. But again, that’s where I need to be spending more of my time. So there’s a clear example of that. I’m happy to send you more information, so I’ll give you a little bit of background on like kind of who our customers are, and I think you know you’ll find it interesting because you, you are interested in product management and kind of expanding beyond, just like
51 00:11:58.000 ⇒ 00:12:18.509 Uttam Kumaran: managing tickets, but actually understanding like what someone needs. We have, like a kind of a lot of interesting clients, one of our biggest clients. They manufacture pool parts, so you have like a pool in your backyard. In the Us. They manufacture specific parts for the pool like pumps. And they actually are able to send pumps directly to clients to install themselves
52 00:12:18.510 ⇒ 00:12:39.609 Uttam Kumaran: typically in the Us. The way it works is you have like a pool service person. And then you buy all the pumps and materials to that person. That person puts a mark up on it, and then basically sells it to you. So instead, they find an opportunity to sell directly to people. But for them we actually work like across their whole business. We’ve worked on data, on sales, marketing.
53 00:12:39.610 ⇒ 00:13:03.679 Uttam Kumaran: shipping, logistics, like customer service discounts refunds. So we came in there. And I was just like, just show me everything. And what are the goals. And so this is an area where we we actually continue to refine. What we are working on is the client said. We have 3 goals we have. One is to reduce shipping costs, 2 is to reduce marketing costs 3 is to achieve daily profitability.
54 00:13:03.710 ⇒ 00:13:25.479 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so that’s really helpful for us to frame every single thing in that and make sure that all the products we’re working on are attacking one of those angles, and we’ve been working with them for almost a year now. And we’ve kind of accomplished a couple of those, you know, on shipping side. We’ve saved them a lot of money. One of the things we did, and this is a I think, a really good example of when we went a little bit above and beyond
55 00:13:25.480 ⇒ 00:13:33.840 Uttam Kumaran: the actual data side is they’re shipping all across the Us. But they’re concentrating areas where it’s very hot.
56 00:13:33.840 ⇒ 00:13:36.939 Uttam Kumaran: And they ship mainly when people use their pools, which is like
57 00:13:37.090 ⇒ 00:13:41.200 Uttam Kumaran: right now until October. And
58 00:13:41.812 ⇒ 00:13:53.620 Uttam Kumaran: I, I basically was like, Okay, send me the contract for your ups, like, what do you guys do using? Send me your shipping contract. We read it. We converted that all into sequel, and then we’re able to forecast it. What are our prices?
59 00:13:53.620 ⇒ 00:14:18.960 Uttam Kumaran: And then what we did is we said, Okay, we wanna try to achieve 50 savings. Okay? So then let’s try to understand where that could come from. And then, you know, in passing that back to them, I said honestly. You could just add me to the meeting with the Ups person cause we have enough contact. We have more context in the client now on, like how shipping works. And so we reneg. We renegotiated their their contract directly with ups, and it saved them like a couple of 100,000 a year.
60 00:14:19.620 ⇒ 00:14:28.090 Uttam Kumaran: and that was a project that was so important because it showed for the client that we’re willing to go even one step. Not just your data team where we’re like.
61 00:14:28.280 ⇒ 00:14:28.600 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
62 00:14:28.600 ⇒ 00:14:31.825 Uttam Kumaran: Look who we need to be, we can become right. And the second thing is.
63 00:14:32.040 ⇒ 00:14:37.139 Nicolas Sucari: You’re becoming mo more as a partner for the company than just like the data team. Yeah.
64 00:14:37.140 ⇒ 00:14:59.939 Uttam Kumaran: Correct. And then the second thing is for us, we nobody. I didn’t have any background in shipping data. Nobody did. Yet. It’s just another data problem. And so the one thing I realize in data is we can work in multiple different industries. But the problems are just data models having analysis. I’m like having click question you’re asking and having someone on the team that can run those queries and answer those questions.
65 00:14:59.940 ⇒ 00:15:28.330 Uttam Kumaran: And then last thing is, how do you transit that to the client? Right? Like we have clients that will text me things that they need or email, or it’s like they’re all over the place. Right? So how do we organize all that into a workflow? So it gets reliably executed, it gets passed back. And so those are the things that I think that’s an example of a really great project. You know, we’re working with them a marketing data like ads measuring their ads. We have another client that we’re just helping them move data into a data warehouse.
66 00:15:28.330 ⇒ 00:15:33.100 Uttam Kumaran: So we’re pulling data from each of their different sources, writing some rest. Api
67 00:15:33.130 ⇒ 00:15:40.902 Uttam Kumaran: rest. Write some rest. Api’s pulling data into a data warehouse on Snowflake. So some clients are more interesting than others. But
68 00:15:41.280 ⇒ 00:16:10.999 Uttam Kumaran: there’s so much opportunity. And all the clients we started working on. We’ve just expanded because they see the kind of the power of data in one part. And then they’re like, okay, go apply it to different areas. I would say, the difficulty that we’re we’re having, though, is that a lot of communication one comes through me. So that’s something that kind of needs to get eliminated, which is like we have a structure for collecting new requirements, getting that scheduled and getting that executed second thing is predicting when work is gonna get done.
69 00:16:11.474 ⇒ 00:16:39.229 Uttam Kumaran: And you know, I’ve been, I’ve been a product manager before I used to run product development at a startup. And it’s a it’s a tough job. And so I have a lot of empathy for people that have done this job. I. My background’s an engineering. But I just had so many opinions about the product that I was like, I’m just gonna go do the product cause I have so many opinions. And I use so many data products that we are building a data product. But the challenge is really, how do you communicate with some error when
70 00:16:39.360 ⇒ 00:16:59.890 Uttam Kumaran: when tickets are gonna get done, gonna get done. And so that’s something that we really are struggling with one. Because I think, like I I’ve hired everybody, and people are really close to me. But second is, we don’t have like we have tickets, and we have labels and everything. But we need to do a little bit better job of like backlog grooming, and like understand sizing
71 00:17:00.160 ⇒ 00:17:19.400 Uttam Kumaran: that way. I can understand what is our capacity right like. If we have some people that could only work can only get done certain amount. Do we need more engineers doing better engineers? Can we take on a new client. Right? Those are all questions that I have as the owner, and we’re not. I’m not able to get out of the day to day in order to answer
72 00:17:19.758 ⇒ 00:17:32.189 Uttam Kumaran: so those are, I mean sorry. That’s a little bit of like a roundabout thing. But we use sequel really heavily. Dbt, snowflake. A lot of like data tools. But a lot of our work is less
73 00:17:32.200 ⇒ 00:17:35.680 Uttam Kumaran: pushing features out. But we’re actually pushing data models.
74 00:17:36.100 ⇒ 00:17:36.620 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah. Good.
75 00:17:36.620 ⇒ 00:17:47.050 Uttam Kumaran: Pipelines or pushing out analysis. The nice thing is, it’s in some sense it’s a lot less technical than normal, like software work.
76 00:17:47.060 ⇒ 00:17:57.680 Uttam Kumaran: But but it does require like a business understanding, which is why some people struggle in this world because it really requires you to think about like, I’m a pool parts, business
77 00:17:58.050 ⇒ 00:18:17.600 Uttam Kumaran: cause, the client may say, Help me with this cost like, how do I reduce this? We have to brainstorm internally. What are the options? Right. They may not have all the questions. And so I like this role. I particularly love data because you are closer to the business. But there is still like some heavily technical aspects. But yeah.
78 00:18:18.990 ⇒ 00:18:20.919 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, that’s really interesting. Yeah.
79 00:18:21.300 ⇒ 00:18:41.499 Nicolas Sucari: but yeah, I mean, it’s something. I I what I’m feeling my sense is that you need someone or some some ways, in order to try to build like these new processes in order to make them like more formal so that you can understand what is the capacity of your team?
80 00:18:41.863 ⇒ 00:19:01.840 Nicolas Sucari: And E, and and obviously get more time for you, so so that you can keep increasing the amount of clients being more closer, probably to some clients that are strategically there, that you, you know, you can have like a little bit more juice from them and you can.
81 00:19:01.840 ⇒ 00:19:02.270 Uttam Kumaran: Spot on.
82 00:19:02.270 ⇒ 00:19:05.486 Nicolas Sucari: Grow, your your company. Yeah.
83 00:19:06.130 ⇒ 00:19:30.350 Uttam Kumaran: It’s having like a partner on the execution side. Right now. I’m like talking to a mirror most days, right like cause I’m doing. I’m doing it almost everything. And so it’s helpful to get some distance from that, so that I can have a conversation with, hey, can we take on new work. What’s the biggest challenge we’re dealing with? The one thing I will say is, I’m very opinionated on how engineers work and how we work with engineers.
84 00:19:30.350 ⇒ 00:19:43.760 Uttam Kumaran: And I will say also my company, as like, it’s very lean, meaning there’s not like 15,000 meetings. There’s not like tons of stand ups and like tons of emails and a ton of waste of time, pretty like
85 00:19:43.830 ⇒ 00:19:59.330 Uttam Kumaran: set in stone, like engineering work. And that’s actually help my ability to get new engineers and get really, really amazing people. And then the second thing is that the company is growing like this is our first time. We’re kind of expanding to hire this role. But
86 00:19:59.330 ⇒ 00:20:26.600 Uttam Kumaran: I think and my next question was going to be talking a little bit about your career. But there’s so much opportunity. I I believe in this business to take on more clients, but take on more complicated work, manage more engineers, and even being able to manage other project managers eventually so interested to hear, like where you think your career is going and like what you’re interested in. And then, even beyond that, like, what about the job you actually love. And what about the job? Maybe you don’t really love.
87 00:20:27.300 ⇒ 00:20:36.659 Nicolas Sucari: So. Yeah, I think that’s the th. That’s the right question. I’m looking for a change right now of where I where I might
88 00:20:37.050 ⇒ 00:20:45.589 Nicolas Sucari: my company that I’m working right now, Lightbox. It’s really great. I started working there when we were 20 people. We’re now 80 people.
89 00:20:45.930 ⇒ 00:20:57.469 Nicolas Sucari: Company growed a lot in the in the past 2 years. Software development companies in the past years were growing a lot right now. They are kind of stabilized and
90 00:20:57.470 ⇒ 00:21:22.229 Nicolas Sucari: kind of it’s like stopping a little bit, trying to understand what is the market where it’s gonna go. But I feel that my role there I am stuck right now, and I don’t. I don’t have like the capacity to grow in that company first of all, because, pretty, it’s we already growed a lot. And to continue growing, we will need like a lot more of clients and a lot more of different things that
91 00:21:22.230 ⇒ 00:21:35.830 Nicolas Sucari: should happen, and I’m not seeing that that they are happy, and also because the owners don’t want them to grow that much right in Argentina is kind of difficult is is different. The approach to
92 00:21:35.830 ⇒ 00:21:55.910 Nicolas Sucari: to from that from our countries. It’s kind of different when they have something working real, real, really, really good. And having profit really good. You don’t sometimes want things to grow a lot bigger because that involves a lot of other problems, too. Right?
93 00:21:56.360 ⇒ 00:22:21.390 Nicolas Sucari: taxis. And that stuff, yeah, in Argentina is pretty common so what I’m looking right now is to change. I love. I like the project management role. But, as I said before, I also like to be more like closer to the product and understanding the businesses to from from the clients and trying to add value there as my role is project management. But with the clients that I I worked
94 00:22:21.390 ⇒ 00:22:33.380 Nicolas Sucari: here. They let me participate a lot in in different strategic meetings in order to understand the product and what was needed for their clients. So that is something that I like. I
95 00:22:33.380 ⇒ 00:22:57.130 Nicolas Sucari: probably the the most difficult thing for me. As a project manager is keeping things like really, really like every day the same thing. But I know it’s something that the role needs right to have the daily meetings to have the groomings to have. Yeah, the estimation meetings, everything the retrospectives and that stuff so that I I know I can live with that.
96 00:22:57.130 ⇒ 00:23:21.990 Nicolas Sucari: I know I can stand up in every meeting be the the owner of the meeting, and try the team to get involved in each of the meetings in order to get other things. Then other things developed other things out there. But I I like to to to dig in a little bit deeper into the clients product understanding that and seeing how I can
97 00:23:21.990 ⇒ 00:23:31.970 Nicolas Sucari: add more value to to that problem, to that product, or or what we are trying to do. And I think software development companies
98 00:23:32.020 ⇒ 00:23:44.699 Nicolas Sucari: are kind of a partner to some companies. But then they it’s just a service. They are hired to do something, and they stop there. And they hire us to do a website. And that’s it. When the website is done, probably we’re out
99 00:23:45.002 ⇒ 00:24:09.180 Nicolas Sucari: or we, we’re hired to do the product, and when the product is done they start using it. We keep maintenance team, and and that’s it. So what I’m looking for is to get involved a little bit better a little bit more, and try to a as you said to add values and and do a little bit more or further, that we are hired so that I can add that value to the company.
100 00:24:11.020 ⇒ 00:24:23.002 Nicolas Sucari: yeah, I’m trying to grow in my career. I know it is difficult for a project manager to become like the project manager for other project managers, because if the team doesn’t grow, that is kind of difficult
101 00:24:23.440 ⇒ 00:24:41.040 Nicolas Sucari: but but I understand that and that was what I was looking for in this company. We grow from 20 to 80, and that that didn’t happen. But I know that is something that it it is. It isn’t so easy to happen right? That’s why I. I’m trying to
102 00:24:41.830 ⇒ 00:24:52.574 Nicolas Sucari: keep working as a project manager, but also being more part of a product team and understanding a business and being close to the clients, so that I can keep adding value right.
103 00:24:54.050 ⇒ 00:25:01.719 Uttam Kumaran: The the the nice thing, I will say here is like there’s only as much structure as there needs to be, and I’m all I’m I’m all constantly
104 00:25:01.810 ⇒ 00:25:03.320 Uttam Kumaran: tearing things out.
105 00:25:03.709 ⇒ 00:25:17.970 Uttam Kumaran: Because I know that people can get into a routine, and especially engineers, they can continue to like. They have the capability of managing their own task and doing stuff. It’s just the expectations need to be set very, very clear.
106 00:25:17.970 ⇒ 00:25:38.060 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where I think we have a little bit of problem in that like, what do you come to a meeting to expect? And then what do you need to be saying? And then how do you held held accountable. But we have people that it’s not just like they come to meeting. They don’t know anything like every day. Right? They’re they’re very knowledgeable about what they need to do. And so actually, the role this Project manager is less of.
107 00:25:38.330 ⇒ 00:25:57.300 Uttam Kumaran: like I hopefully less of like daily stand ups. What are we doing? But more of like strategic like, what does this client need over the next month? And are we gonna deliver it? And then, second is, I’m constantly evaluating new clients. So like I, I’m in like meetings with people that are asking me for all sorts of stuff
108 00:25:57.390 ⇒ 00:26:13.059 Uttam Kumaran: for that to get to move from like a sales meeting to them, getting qualified. That’d be great to have someone from the team come in, and I’ve had some people on the engineering side come in. But of course they come in with like a very like strict is this possible mindset? It’s kind of a dance, right? You need someone who’s like, is this possible.
109 00:26:13.060 ⇒ 00:26:13.740 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
110 00:26:13.740 ⇒ 00:26:33.699 Uttam Kumaran: Who do we have? And that would be great. So there’s a there’s so much opportunity at this company, I think, for someone that wants to get a little bit beyond project management. Additionally, we are developing even products internally. Kind of taking on some of the work that we’ve done. That’s like every on every client, making our own internal products to speed up
111 00:26:33.700 ⇒ 00:26:51.070 Uttam Kumaran: those processes as well as eventually, even like selling those and so there’s like a whole like. There’s so many things that are possible to work on. You’re right in that. There is some daily rituals and weekly rituals on the project management side. But again, I think the work is dynamic enough.
112 00:26:51.070 ⇒ 00:27:09.549 Uttam Kumaran: and the people are very like light, and that they don’t need a ton. They don’t need a ton of like hand holding like again. I’m not. We don’t have. We don’t have any like junior people, people who are really seasoned, and it’ll continue to be that way as the company grows. I’m only interested in hiring like very, very senior, experienced people.
113 00:27:09.827 ⇒ 00:27:28.389 Uttam Kumaran: And then hopefully, again, this role becomes more of like. Okay, there’s there’s a whole host of things that happen day to day. But on a weekly or monthly basis, what is the the strategic things. You know. I also think a lot about like written communication and written processes. As a new project comes in like, is there a project document and then also.
114 00:27:28.390 ⇒ 00:27:28.940 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
115 00:27:28.940 ⇒ 00:27:40.269 Uttam Kumaran: Today, how can we rely more on slack and email so that people don’t have to come on zoom. And it’s really exhausting sometimes, and especially in the project management side, like I used to be in 8 meetings a day. And I’m like.
116 00:27:40.280 ⇒ 00:27:56.349 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to talk to anybody right? And so I’m sure you you kind of understand that. So I really have my eye on like stuff like that. If I if I understand that people are sitting on. Zoom. I’m like, work is not getting done. So that’s hopefully like what you can kind of expect from me.
117 00:27:57.720 ⇒ 00:28:00.229 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I guess I I was gonna ask, like
118 00:28:00.240 ⇒ 00:28:05.560 Uttam Kumaran: my last question was, gonna Be a little bit about, and I have a little bit more time. If if you, if you if you have a second.
119 00:28:05.560 ⇒ 00:28:06.120 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah.
120 00:28:06.120 ⇒ 00:28:21.839 Uttam Kumaran: I was. Gonna ask like, what do you think like your first week or 2 would look like if you were to join like a new company. And again, we’re we’re a little bit smaller than lightbox when you join. But of course a little bit different work like, what do you think your first week or 2 would look like? What would you be interested in, and really trying to do.
121 00:28:23.048 ⇒ 00:28:47.009 Nicolas Sucari: Well, first of all, I will try to know the people that’s working with. You know the engineers know the work that you’re that you’re doing and try to understand. What is that value that you add to the to the clients? Right? First of all, I would love to understand what is like that product, or that value that you add to to the clients, so that the Ca, so that I can understand what is like
122 00:28:47.010 ⇒ 00:28:53.689 Nicolas Sucari: the company is trying to do explicitly, trying to be part of
123 00:28:53.690 ⇒ 00:29:09.790 Nicolas Sucari: every. As you said. If there are no so many meetings, every meeting that I can try to discuss with you. Try to get to know to the clients under product and what they are trying to achieve. And once I understand that is working closely with the team and trying to understand what are the pain points and try to
124 00:29:09.790 ⇒ 00:29:34.659 Nicolas Sucari: to to to map what are all of the pain points that what are the easy gains that we can have in in the first in in a short time period. Right? If you say, the documentation is something that is hurting you, and you don’t have like the right documentation for each of the products. I can put an eye there. Try to understand from my role or my experience before how we are documenting stuff to our clients and try to come
125 00:29:34.660 ⇒ 00:29:40.499 Nicolas Sucari: with a proposal and see if that works we can try. I am kind of
126 00:29:40.750 ⇒ 00:29:56.360 Nicolas Sucari: I I I always think that there is no the the exact solution for every client, every client is different. Every client needs different things and wants different things so I like to try different things with each clients to understand what works and what doesn’t work.
127 00:29:56.708 ⇒ 00:30:15.170 Nicolas Sucari: So yeah, probably my first week, 2 weeks would be kind of that trying to understand exactly who I’m working with. And what are we we doing with the clients? Try to understand what the client is is doing, and what they are trying to achieve and and think outside the box, on
128 00:30:15.170 ⇒ 00:30:18.770 Nicolas Sucari: what are the pain points that you are having inside the company, and how to
129 00:30:18.790 ⇒ 00:30:34.479 Nicolas Sucari: achieve some of them, in the short term or long term, or try to like estimate, have an estimation on what are different things that we can start doing? Yeah, to organize a little bit better, to give a little bit more value to our clients, or or any stuff.
130 00:30:34.940 ⇒ 00:30:35.893 Uttam Kumaran: Makes sense.
131 00:30:36.857 ⇒ 00:30:46.279 Uttam Kumaran: I yeah, I just want to give you a little bit of time. If you have any question, any further questions for me, or about the company, or anything. I’m happy to talk about. Any process or.
132 00:30:47.270 ⇒ 00:31:00.280 Nicolas Sucari: No, I I was. I was kind of as I would. I would like to ask you because you told me about this Pool Company and th. They seem like they have their their goals like pretty
133 00:31:00.280 ⇒ 00:31:18.050 Nicolas Sucari: pretty easy for them. They already know what they are. But have you ever worked with the client that doesn’t have that information, or that goes written down and easy to communicate to you. And they just say, I want to reduce costs, and that’s it. So how? How was your approach? On on the clients.
134 00:31:18.050 ⇒ 00:31:27.588 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, we definitely have one client that’s like that. It’s a lot different now that we’ve been working for maybe 6 months. But initially, it was like, we just need a data person, we need data.
135 00:31:28.170 ⇒ 00:31:34.429 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s like, okay for me, I get worried that like we’re not gonna be able to.
136 00:31:34.490 ⇒ 00:31:38.870 Uttam Kumaran: If there’s not a clear expectation, we’re not gonna be able hit that or over exceed that expectation.
137 00:31:38.870 ⇒ 00:31:39.500 Nicolas Sucari: Exactly.
138 00:31:39.867 ⇒ 00:31:58.159 Uttam Kumaran: And I. I worry a lot about that. But at the same time there are some. The reason why we got into the business is that people like the Pool Company people like this other company I’m describing. They don’t have access to this sort of engineering talent right? They’re never gonna hire a full time data person cause there’s no data organization. There’s no CTO.
139 00:31:58.180 ⇒ 00:32:11.930 Uttam Kumaran: So I I think a lot about the reason we gone to this business to allow those sorts of people to get interested in data and improve their business with data. So it’s a lot of listening. It’s a lot of really like listening on like, what’s their experience with data been?
140 00:32:11.940 ⇒ 00:32:38.489 Uttam Kumaran: I do. They have experience. They have expectations for what they need like. Do they need dashboards? Is this for an investor meeting? Is this for a client facing product? So you kinda understand the lay of the land? Then it’s like you just try to show some value. Right? You try to show like, Hey, we’re gonna just drive. We’re gonna agree on like one goal. And we’re gonna drive towards that. And then, of course, when we come up, maybe there’s like some shit difference. And like, Hey, I expected this. I got this cool, but the same process that person is also learning.
141 00:32:38.490 ⇒ 00:32:51.480 Uttam Kumaran: and so, on one hand, it’s you know, I’m really open with people is like, I told clients like, Look, the reason why you should hire us over hiring a full time. Person is like you can hire us on Monday if you don’t like us to fire us on Friday like.
142 00:32:51.480 ⇒ 00:33:04.680 Uttam Kumaran: And I don’t worry about that, because I really believe in our product and our process and our people and so I just try to be a good listener, I will say, though, like some of those clients, require a lot more time than we’re being paid for.
143 00:33:04.975 ⇒ 00:33:27.985 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s that’s the problem. And that again we will get better over time as as like. I kinda have a holistic understanding of what all our clients are. We can get a better understanding of. Okay, this client. Although we’re getting paid this much, we’re really working this much and and then having a conversation with them, or understand whether we need to cut them as a client, or we need to change our processes.
144 00:33:28.526 ⇒ 00:33:37.880 Uttam Kumaran: So those are all things that like in initially, we just did what we could for as many people as we could. Now we’re getting a little bit more refined, and we’re understanding like, who has the bandwidth.
145 00:33:37.880 ⇒ 00:34:01.460 Uttam Kumaran: The other complication is, you know, we have. Engineers are working on multiple clients. And so the the process change that needs to happen is we have, like one general internal stand up, and it’s like, should we have one per client to same, somewhat the same people? Sometimes those are all things that like kind of need to get decided. But in terms of the client. Yeah, I just tend to listen, and I tend to almost like hug them with like
146 00:34:01.460 ⇒ 00:34:28.700 Uttam Kumaran: anything they need questions, answers all answer and try to get to the point where they trust me. They trust us as a data team, but just as a team that gets stuff done, and that way, whatever they throw at us, we will have a response we have someone to connect them with. And I really try to become partners with them in the business. And you know that’s one thing that helps us, you know, of course, make money. But that’s the way I would. I would prefer to do business, you know, have longer term relationships
147 00:34:28.958 ⇒ 00:34:54.520 Uttam Kumaran: and where we can just a of course, offer advice or help our connections beyond data. And that’s what’s gotten us through. And now that client has really clear requirements, like, we’re working through clear projects. But initially, it was a really early startup, and they were just a little bit all over the place. But I knew that they needed our services, and I said, here’s like 5 things we can do. You need to pick one, and we need to work through setting those goals and making sure we can achieve them in a timeline.
148 00:34:54.520 ⇒ 00:34:59.469 Uttam Kumaran: But you know, it’s again, it’s just like we have to explain, like how data works.
149 00:34:59.510 ⇒ 00:35:05.870 Uttam Kumaran: what the costs are like, what the infrastructure. You know, implementation is gonna look like. And then they’re they’re okay with it.
150 00:35:05.910 ⇒ 00:35:33.679 Uttam Kumaran: Because again, I really believe that if you want to do the things that we’re doing, and you go to the market and find it. You’re not gonna find it at the pace at which we do it, and with the care that we would do it, and I would say right now we’re charging rates that are lower than the market and so for all those, I’m really, Con, I’m again so confident in our product, and what we offer as a service that, like I’m willing to work with whoever, and I’m sure we’ll exceed their expectations. So.
151 00:35:35.300 ⇒ 00:35:38.041 Nicolas Sucari: That’s fine. Thank you. And
152 00:35:38.600 ⇒ 00:36:05.779 Nicolas Sucari: I. It seems like you have like a lot of on on your plate like you go to all the different meetings with the clients. You explain, you answer all the questions, do. Don’t you feel that? Probably you I I don’t know if if you also, get one of your your your people on the data team with you, on, on those calls? Or is something that you feel you still feel that you need to be part of each of those conversations with the clients, yet.
153 00:36:05.980 ⇒ 00:36:28.949 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I. So I totally see your point. And I’ve tried to bring people on the team onto those calls the problem with engineers, if you worked with them is it’s like 2 brains. And you know, problem. But I’ve found a way to switch contacts, cause I still do some engineering work, but it’s tough for them, you know, to get into the sales mindset, to to listen.
154 00:36:28.950 ⇒ 00:36:45.440 Uttam Kumaran: and then to put that back somewhere and then execute later. And so I’ve tried to bring in people on the team, and it hasn’t worked. So one, I think there’s probably opportunity for us to get different people that maybe can handle that. But it is a little bit of the onus of the role is that I initially was like, I don’t wanna hire. I only wanna hire engineers.
155 00:36:45.440 ⇒ 00:37:06.280 Uttam Kumaran: and I want engineers to be able to manage. But I realize that for them, you know, it can be a little bit complicated. And maybe it’s a good long term goal for us to get more people that are able to manage their work even more. And it leaves like a project manager kind of do a little bit lighter, but also help a little on sales and things like that. But yeah, I did try for a while to bring people onto calls and things like that. But
156 00:37:06.280 ⇒ 00:37:31.550 Uttam Kumaran: again, it it risks the project. And so I realize, like, you can only do what you can do the all the all the engineers can communicate well, and and can be on emails and things like that. But in terms of like the kind of like the care it takes when you’re on a call with the client like it’s a little bit of selling a little bit of like. Okay, we’re gonna deliver this timelines. Get. You’re guessing a little bit. I think it’s it’s been tough for some of them. So
157 00:37:31.550 ⇒ 00:37:40.270 Uttam Kumaran: and again, they’re all doing a lot of different work, and I want to make sure that they wake up. And they’re like, here are the 3 things I need to do, and they go execute that. That’s that’s.
158 00:37:40.340 ⇒ 00:37:44.509 Uttam Kumaran: you know. If they can do that, we’re we’re we’re really golden. So.
159 00:37:45.750 ⇒ 00:37:46.650 Nicolas Sucari: Excellent.
160 00:37:46.860 ⇒ 00:37:47.493 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Great.
161 00:37:47.810 ⇒ 00:37:49.570 Nicolas Sucari: It’s a good question, for sure.
162 00:37:49.800 ⇒ 00:38:10.139 Uttam Kumaran: It’s tough, and even for me it’s tough, because again, like the the business started with just me. So I was able to get everybody. Now. It’s kind of becoming a little bit bigger than me, and I’m learning how to separate myself, but carefully, because you can’t lose the clients right? So it’s like carefully separate. Inform them that kind of our business is growing. And
163 00:38:10.408 ⇒ 00:38:26.500 Uttam Kumaran: we have some new processes, but of course it’s we. The only reason we have new processes is to help them get better work, more reliable. Right? So that’s the sort of communication that I like. I want to be doing, and it allows me to again meet with them in more of like a strategic sense, like.
164 00:38:26.530 ⇒ 00:38:31.470 Uttam Kumaran: how’s everything going like? Do you need anything? And then there’s also day to day. So.
165 00:38:32.950 ⇒ 00:38:40.249 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, no, it’s totally totally understandable. I think you are going through the correct process. So yeah, it’s totally
166 00:38:40.990 ⇒ 00:39:03.797 Nicolas Sucari: fine and and I can see your I don’t know how to say it’s your amusement of what you do that that you you can. I don’t know. You can translate that to me, and that’s that’s great. I I can see that you’re really emphasized on the product, on the work that you are doing with the clients, and that you’re really adding value, even though I can’t I? I haven’t seen.
167 00:39:04.090 ⇒ 00:39:04.729 Uttam Kumaran: Appreciate that.
168 00:39:04.730 ⇒ 00:39:06.849 Nicolas Sucari: What do you do? I can feel it so.
169 00:39:06.850 ⇒ 00:39:07.250 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
170 00:39:07.250 ⇒ 00:39:08.330 Nicolas Sucari: That’s great. Yeah.
171 00:39:08.330 ⇒ 00:39:09.520 Uttam Kumaran: No, I appreciate it.
172 00:39:10.057 ⇒ 00:39:32.709 Uttam Kumaran: Great. So if you don’t have any other questions, that this has been great, I think as a next step I would love for you to meet 2 members of our team to like the senior engineers. Again it. It won’t be anything technical or anything. Just so, probably a similar interview to this. Just some different questions. We’re interviewing a few other candidates. But I we’re hoping to come to make a decision by the end of the week, if not early next week.
173 00:39:33.140 ⇒ 00:39:38.430 Uttam Kumaran: But if you’re okay with that, maybe I can get. I know today’s your day off, so I could schedule some stuff for tomorrow.
174 00:39:38.490 ⇒ 00:39:40.400 Uttam Kumaran: If that works.
175 00:39:40.930 ⇒ 00:39:41.939 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, of course.
176 00:39:42.872 ⇒ 00:39:47.719 Uttam Kumaran: What’s your availability like tomorrow? And then I can make sure that those meetings get scheduled.
177 00:39:48.620 ⇒ 00:39:51.579 Nicolas Sucari: So you are. Let me see.
178 00:39:53.325 ⇒ 00:39:55.670 Nicolas Sucari: You are 2 h behind me, right.
179 00:39:55.670 ⇒ 00:39:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
180 00:39:57.097 ⇒ 00:40:00.499 Uttam Kumaran: but I mean anytime, probably after
181 00:40:00.730 ⇒ 00:40:02.860 Uttam Kumaran: 8 Am. Central
182 00:40:06.890 ⇒ 00:40:07.920 Uttam Kumaran: works.
183 00:40:08.980 ⇒ 00:40:11.150 Nicolas Sucari: So tomorrow I can do.
184 00:40:11.510 ⇒ 00:40:12.810 Nicolas Sucari: Let me see.
185 00:40:13.557 ⇒ 00:40:17.329 Nicolas Sucari: I can do 9, 30 for you, if that’s fine.
186 00:40:17.580 ⇒ 00:40:18.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
187 00:40:18.270 ⇒ 00:40:21.750 Nicolas Sucari: I have 30. Yeah, yeah, probably I can do 9, 30 tomorrow. Yes.
188 00:40:23.080 ⇒ 00:40:28.750 Uttam Kumaran: And then do you have 2 slots available cause? It’ll be 2 engineers. So 30 min and another one.
189 00:40:29.570 ⇒ 00:40:34.080 Nicolas Sucari: And then I can do it’s 11 am. Probably.
190 00:40:34.520 ⇒ 00:40:35.240 Nicolas Sucari: Yes.
191 00:40:35.940 ⇒ 00:40:37.412 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, perfect. Okay, great.
192 00:40:38.470 ⇒ 00:40:39.659 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m just gonna schedule.
193 00:40:39.660 ⇒ 00:40:44.109 Nicolas Sucari: Okay, if not, I. I can do later. I have my afternoon.
194 00:40:44.310 ⇒ 00:40:48.479 Uttam Kumaran: 11 is 11 is perfect. I’m just gonna block it off right now.
195 00:40:52.210 ⇒ 00:40:53.070 Nicolas Sucari: Excellent.
196 00:40:53.370 ⇒ 00:40:54.050 Nicolas Sucari: right.
197 00:40:54.050 ⇒ 00:40:58.480 Uttam Kumaran: And where’s in your? I’ve never heard your last name before, Sukari like, where is that? From? What’s the origin.
198 00:40:58.480 ⇒ 00:40:59.460 Nicolas Sucari: So gary.
199 00:40:59.460 ⇒ 00:40:59.950 Uttam Kumaran: So Karate.
200 00:41:01.060 ⇒ 00:41:02.990 Nicolas Sucari: So the origin?
201 00:41:03.030 ⇒ 00:41:07.699 Nicolas Sucari: I I think it’s kind of from Sydia. But it’s like
202 00:41:08.180 ⇒ 00:41:11.430 Nicolas Sucari: pretty much a lot of time ago. Yeah.
203 00:41:12.280 ⇒ 00:41:34.709 Nicolas Sucari: my family is I I mean, in my grandfather’s my great grandfather, and the stuff were Jews that escape from Europe and came to Argentina. So yeah, probably they came from Syria, but from my other part of the family for my mother, and they come from yeah, Poland, probably, or something like that. I don’t have the look of a Polish people. That’s fine.
204 00:41:35.235 ⇒ 00:41:39.440 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know but you could be some Syrian. You kinda could be Middle Eastern or.
205 00:41:39.440 ⇒ 00:41:46.219 Nicolas Sucari: I know. I know. Yeah, yeah, I kind from the Middle East. I I’m sure I’m part of the Middle East at some point.
206 00:41:46.220 ⇒ 00:41:52.910 Uttam Kumaran: It’s crazy. Argentina has people from so many different places. I never really really realized that until recently. But it’s like.
207 00:41:53.210 ⇒ 00:41:57.159 Uttam Kumaran: especially after the World War 2. I think everybody just like dispersed.
208 00:41:58.070 ⇒ 00:42:13.449 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, it was kind of a a nice destination after World War 2. Where people from all over the world escape to America and into us or the Us. Or Argentina. There was a lot of possibilities. So yeah, a lot of people. We have a lot of diverse cultures here.
209 00:42:13.450 ⇒ 00:42:14.230 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
210 00:42:14.370 ⇒ 00:42:15.790 Nicolas Sucari: Kind of interesting. Yeah.
211 00:42:15.790 ⇒ 00:42:18.779 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we have one other teammate who’s in Buenos Aires actually.
212 00:42:19.810 ⇒ 00:42:20.530 Nicolas Sucari: Ice.
213 00:42:20.740 ⇒ 00:42:23.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So so hopefully, we’ll have to do trip sometime.
214 00:42:25.072 ⇒ 00:42:44.750 Nicolas Sucari: Yeah, it’s pretty nice. Yeah, I think you will love it. It’s it’s cheap for people who are coming from abroad. And Argentina is really big. So you have a lot of different things to do. Country have a lot of yeah. You can see snow. You can go to the north, it’s totally different. So yeah, it’s kind.
215 00:42:45.090 ⇒ 00:42:45.840 Nicolas Sucari: amazing.
216 00:42:46.240 ⇒ 00:42:57.603 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, well, I appreciate the time today, and I just sent those meetings tomorrow. But I’ll I’ll add the other teammates. And then, yeah. Again, I really appreciate you taking the time. And if you have any other questions, please feel free to email me.
217 00:42:58.123 ⇒ 00:43:01.470 Uttam Kumaran: and if yeah, if there’s any other information I can share. Please let me know.
218 00:43:02.260 ⇒ 00:43:09.400 Nicolas Sucari: No, that I think that’s fine. Thank you very much for your time, Milton, and for sharing your enthusiasm on what you are doing. I I think
219 00:43:09.410 ⇒ 00:43:20.130 Nicolas Sucari: that is like the best thing a person like me going to interviews needs in order to be encouraged to move forward to it. So, yeah, really, thank you. Thank you very much.
220 00:43:20.420 ⇒ 00:43:22.280 Uttam Kumaran: So much. Okay, I’ll talk to you soon.
221 00:43:22.900 ⇒ 00:43:23.640 Nicolas Sucari: Hey! Aye.