Meeting Title: Uttam-Kumaran <> Jared-Patterson Date: 2024-04-29 Meeting participants: Jared Patterson, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:02:31.320 ⇒ 00:02:32.719 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! It’s.
2 00:02:32.720 ⇒ 00:02:33.310 JARED PATTERSON: On! On!
3 00:02:33.660 ⇒ 00:02:34.492 Uttam Kumaran: How are you?
4 00:02:34.770 ⇒ 00:02:35.980 JARED PATTERSON: I’m doing well yourself.
5 00:02:36.300 ⇒ 00:02:42.004 Uttam Kumaran: Doing well. Just had some traveling recently. So back in like this normal swing of things.
6 00:02:42.570 ⇒ 00:02:44.780 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah. How was how was the trip?
7 00:02:44.780 ⇒ 00:02:48.069 Uttam Kumaran: It was good. Yeah, it was really nice. How about you? How’s everything?
8 00:02:48.640 ⇒ 00:02:49.235 JARED PATTERSON: Good.
9 00:02:50.520 ⇒ 00:03:00.339 JARED PATTERSON: I can’t remember the last time we talked how long it’s been. We we were locking up my hockey season over, we won it again, which is pretty cool. We went back to back National Championships, which is pretty sick.
10 00:03:00.340 ⇒ 00:03:00.860 Uttam Kumaran: Massive.
11 00:03:02.040 ⇒ 00:03:10.710 JARED PATTERSON: Aside from that, just I have one class, and I’m a ta for statistics. So just been kind of doing that and enjoying the last little bit of freedom at school. So.
12 00:03:10.710 ⇒ 00:03:18.084 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. How is how has anything changed on like on the job front? And like, what are your thoughts.
13 00:03:18.740 ⇒ 00:03:20.033 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, so
14 00:03:21.130 ⇒ 00:03:25.120 JARED PATTERSON: it’s been tough, like, I’ve kind of pivoted to more
15 00:03:25.810 ⇒ 00:03:33.560 JARED PATTERSON: like analyst roles for like more finance, which is more of like an econom. These are my major of economics as opposed to my minors and like
16 00:03:33.700 ⇒ 00:03:43.360 JARED PATTERSON: data, but and saying that, like still looking for like entry level roles in the data analytics because ideally like, that’s what I want to do. I know what I what I like and what I don’t like.
17 00:03:43.390 ⇒ 00:03:45.820 JARED PATTERSON: It’s more, more or less, just like a
18 00:03:46.930 ⇒ 00:03:57.290 JARED PATTERSON: what’s out there and like what I’m gonna be able to get interviews for. I I spoke with email with Clint the other day, and he had me join the slack channel like
19 00:03:57.440 ⇒ 00:04:02.738 JARED PATTERSON: I think they’re like locally optimistic or something like that, to look for entry level roles.
20 00:04:03.400 ⇒ 00:04:04.870 JARED PATTERSON: for like kids like me.
21 00:04:05.010 ⇒ 00:04:06.779 JARED PATTERSON: But yeah, it’s been
22 00:04:07.330 ⇒ 00:04:10.360 JARED PATTERSON: similar to what we talked about last time. But still, like, you know.
23 00:04:11.170 ⇒ 00:04:17.379 JARED PATTERSON: looking through the Linkedin job section kind of looking at all the job boards and stuff like that. But.
24 00:04:18.269 ⇒ 00:04:18.739 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
25 00:04:18.740 ⇒ 00:04:19.720 JARED PATTERSON: Finding a way at it.
26 00:04:19.720 ⇒ 00:04:23.285 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and so on our end. A couple of things have changed.
27 00:04:24.010 ⇒ 00:04:37.030 Uttam Kumaran: some good, some tougher. I I like. I, as I mentioned before like this. The process I’m in is really figuring out now that the business is kind of running. We have a few clients we’re working on building a team, basically
28 00:04:37.714 ⇒ 00:04:57.479 Uttam Kumaran: and so over the last few months, we have a couple of different team members now across a couple of different scopes. So we have like one person that’s focused squarely on like data engineering one for person that’s focused squarely on like data modeling. One person that’s kind of senior like me, who can kinda just like go
29 00:04:57.570 ⇒ 00:05:03.559 Uttam Kumaran: wherever he’s needed. And then one person that’s working squarely on analysis,
30 00:05:04.070 ⇒ 00:05:07.070 Uttam Kumaran: And the analysis piece is something that we brought on
31 00:05:07.486 ⇒ 00:05:11.399 Uttam Kumaran: in the last, like 3 months. We had one person he left.
32 00:05:11.680 ⇒ 00:05:15.330 Uttam Kumaran: and then we just onboarded one other person who actually lives here in Austin.
33 00:05:15.637 ⇒ 00:05:42.032 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s been going really? Well. Which is great, because data analysis is like the last mile problem for data. And I again, W. The thing I tell a lot of people is the a lot of the data. Pipeline and model stuff is really behind the scenes. But it is like 80% of the work. And then right at the end, you have to kind of come in and tie it all with a bow with some analyses. Unless the client, you know, has like a data analysis team.
34 00:05:42.450 ⇒ 00:05:53.120 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s kind of a function that we’ve just started to kind of build out. And we’re actually trialing some really interesting products in the space that I’ll even just send you
35 00:05:53.768 ⇒ 00:05:56.320 Uttam Kumaran: here. So you can even take a look.
36 00:05:57.860 ⇒ 00:06:01.079 Uttam Kumaran: we’re testing out this product called evidence.
37 00:06:01.110 ⇒ 00:06:04.900 Uttam Kumaran: We’re also testing out this product called rail.
38 00:06:06.730 ⇒ 00:06:11.870 Uttam Kumaran: So evidence. Was a product started by some people that left New York Times.
39 00:06:12.236 ⇒ 00:06:17.650 Uttam Kumaran: Like their data team. And they went and got tried to start almost like a have you familiar with, like Jupiter notebooks.
40 00:06:18.210 ⇒ 00:06:19.851 JARED PATTERSON: No, no, I’m not. What’s
41 00:06:20.180 ⇒ 00:06:37.380 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s basically like running, running like queries directly in like an environment where I can query your database. But you can produce like pretty high quality analyses, because basically, what happens in my world is you produce an analyses, and it kind of sits stale. It’s like a point in time sort of thing.
42 00:06:37.735 ⇒ 00:06:50.604 Uttam Kumaran: Not only that. It’s like that’s typically done over the email or the Google Doc, there’s no version control. There’s no code and it’s kind of a nightmare to like, reproduce and manage. So the nice thing about evidence that we’ve been using is
43 00:06:51.130 ⇒ 00:06:59.129 Uttam Kumaran: You can write queries directly in there, but also write commentary and write a lot of markdown. And so you get really, really
44 00:06:59.582 ⇒ 00:07:16.869 Uttam Kumaran: nice looking charts and really, really nice looking reports that are very easy to build. And so this is a tool that we are literally just pushing now to one of our clients, that is really, really nice.
45 00:07:17.490 ⇒ 00:07:25.550 JARED PATTERSON: I was. Gonna say, is this not like similar to like? What a power Bi would kind of be able to to do like similar, like, it’s like a bi tool. It’s
46 00:07:25.690 ⇒ 00:07:26.430 JARED PATTERSON: like
47 00:07:27.160 ⇒ 00:07:30.450 JARED PATTERSON: real time updates on your analysis.
48 00:07:30.814 ⇒ 00:07:36.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so it’s similar to a bi tool. I would say, the main difference is.
49 00:07:36.979 ⇒ 00:07:48.129 Uttam Kumaran: it’s built. This is kind of built for data products. And what is like a data product versus a dashboard. So dashboard like power Bi also has the capability of doing a lot of exploration. Where.
50 00:07:48.180 ⇒ 00:08:06.990 Uttam Kumaran: let’s say, you’re like head of marketing. You wanna go and select random dimensions and measures, and like, kind of do your analysis. This is more for a little bit like past that which is like you just have like a request for like a weekly report or something that’s fixed. And the data team can go like supply that. Additionally, the amount of
51 00:08:07.140 ⇒ 00:08:30.720 Uttam Kumaran: power bi and a lot of these bi tools, the data is side is really lacking. Like, even put it frankly, like, everything looks like shit, basically, so this is something where you’re building data products. You can also spin out and sell but additionally like for executives that don’t really live in the data world. And some some organizations have a sense of like they wanna explore and like click on things. Some people are just like, I just want the report I want.
52 00:08:30.720 ⇒ 00:08:31.410 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
53 00:08:31.750 ⇒ 00:08:47.440 Uttam Kumaran: And so the nice thing about my business now is I can find like specific products for specific use cases. So not everybody has to use power Bi, which is really expensive and power Bi is also really tough. For a data team to maintain this tool is very, very lightweight, has, like great integrations with like Github.
54 00:08:47.480 ⇒ 00:08:50.340 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s something we’re like rolling out with one client.
55 00:08:50.714 ⇒ 00:08:58.665 Uttam Kumaran: The other tool that I sent is this tool called real? Do you wanna click on that? This is like a really, really super great operational dashboard.
56 00:09:00.420 ⇒ 00:09:02.039 JARED PATTERSON: Okay, yeah, I’m seeing this.
57 00:09:02.040 ⇒ 00:09:08.406 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and something that we’re we’re playing around with for our clients who are really just asking like tons of questions.
58 00:09:09.105 ⇒ 00:09:13.949 Uttam Kumaran: And you can spin this up in like 10 min on like a tick data table or a Csv
59 00:09:14.289 ⇒ 00:09:30.210 Uttam Kumaran: and you should even try it if you have, like, some data sitting around that you can just play around with. The docs are really easy. And it like looks amazing. But it’s super operational meaning. There’s not much of like creating reports. It’s more just like this is like your sort of like.
60 00:09:30.500 ⇒ 00:09:32.160 JARED PATTERSON: This? Is it you can.
61 00:09:32.160 ⇒ 00:09:54.829 Uttam Kumaran: You just click around you. You ask questions really fast. So your iterations are fast. But it’s not meant to be like. So there’s not much customization. But the reason I like real is they’re specific. And like, we solve these types of problems. And so instead of going to look or to solve all of these different problems. There’s now tool specific for though. So those are like 2 2 new interesting things that we we actually.
62 00:09:54.830 ⇒ 00:09:55.610 JARED PATTERSON: No, yeah, that’s.
63 00:09:55.610 ⇒ 00:09:56.025 Uttam Kumaran: Doing.
64 00:09:56.800 ⇒ 00:10:02.250 JARED PATTERSON: Those are sweet and like I I’ve I probably asked a similar question last time we talked. But like.
65 00:10:03.010 ⇒ 00:10:06.300 JARED PATTERSON: cause you’re using all these new tools that.
66 00:10:06.450 ⇒ 00:10:15.010 JARED PATTERSON: like you obviously haven’t used before. Is that something that like you’re having people on board on how to use them? Or is it more so just like learning on the job like these people
67 00:10:15.100 ⇒ 00:10:20.980 JARED PATTERSON: it it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be rocket science to understand them. But also you kind of need to learn. There’s going to be a learning curve at some point.
68 00:10:20.980 ⇒ 00:10:23.349 Uttam Kumaran: No, you’re you’re totally right. So
69 00:10:23.370 ⇒ 00:10:51.749 Uttam Kumaran: one is like. And this is where it’s. It’s been interesting for me, cause there’s there’s like my ability to learn and like, I can pick up these and run really quickly. But actually, my business is no longer just me. So I am very, very conscious of the developer process. And like I, even though tool looks really good, I’m actually equally as concerned with how fast and how easy it is to learn and maintain. There’s some tools great. But the background is really ugly.
70 00:10:51.890 ⇒ 00:11:12.189 Uttam Kumaran: meaning like what you have to do to teach someone. So both all these tools I like, because they’re really easy to learn. They have great documentation, and both have really great support, like, I’ve interacted with the like executives at both of those companies, and they just picked up my call when I said, Hey, I wanna roll this out to a couple of clients. So I do think a lot about
71 00:11:12.190 ⇒ 00:11:31.929 Uttam Kumaran: how fast it is to learn. The the problem is, and this is this is where I’m I’m learning more about. These tools are always gonna keep coming up. So my ability to get people that have an aptitude to pick these sorts of new things up, but also open to saying like, hey? Maybe I learned Pr. Vi. Or maybe familiar with like Excel. But I can go pick that up really quickly, or
72 00:11:31.930 ⇒ 00:11:54.640 Uttam Kumaran: give me a week. I’ll just go play around and we’ll figure this stuff out right? So that’s kind of like what I want my team to be good at is bringing on these really brand new tools that again, nobody in nobody in the market has people that have been using these for that very long. So that’s becomes our advantage. Right? But I do think a lot about the developer lifecycle and how fast we can actually build on those platforms. For sure.
73 00:11:55.300 ⇒ 00:11:57.554 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, I I was gonna say,
74 00:11:58.140 ⇒ 00:12:02.680 JARED PATTERSON: cause I obviously looked over like the website that seems to be a little bit revamped since the last time we talked.
75 00:12:03.020 ⇒ 00:12:08.070 Uttam Kumaran: It’s getting better. There’s like another sort of stuff that’s getting pushed. I mean, the
76 00:12:08.240 ⇒ 00:12:15.310 Uttam Kumaran: where I need to be is like on the sales and marketing side, where I’m not where I am right now. Still, an engineering land which is tough.
77 00:12:15.310 ⇒ 00:12:15.850 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
78 00:12:15.850 ⇒ 00:12:18.599 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s like, really, really difficult, because
79 00:12:18.730 ⇒ 00:12:22.420 Uttam Kumaran: I’m going against like my natural inclination.
80 00:12:23.273 ⇒ 00:12:40.586 Uttam Kumaran: At the same time, if you have to kind of like slowly hire your way out of that problem and get really great people. And you know, that’s been the process. You know, in the last like few months. The last few months have been good business, wise like. I’m no longer freaking out about running out of money.
81 00:12:40.870 ⇒ 00:12:41.450 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
82 00:12:41.610 ⇒ 00:12:43.669 Uttam Kumaran: Which, like gives you a little bit of call.
83 00:12:43.670 ⇒ 00:12:45.659 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah. A little stress relief, though, for sure.
84 00:12:45.660 ⇒ 00:12:49.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But at the same time, I’m like, I’m constantly thinking about.
85 00:12:50.000 ⇒ 00:13:02.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, do I have the right team like, who else can I bring on. And then how can I make sure that clients can get the best work from us right? And so they continue to give us money and hopefully allows to take on more work for them.
86 00:13:03.240 ⇒ 00:13:22.300 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, I was. Gonna say, I cause last last time you spoke before I’d read a bit about like the you had some case studies outlined on the the website. I couldn’t find anymore this time was bumped about that. But like do you have, I mean, I’d love to know a little bit more about, because last of me went into detail on some projects. I’d love to hear a little bit more about stuff, so I can kind of understand, more so.
87 00:13:22.300 ⇒ 00:13:22.670 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
88 00:13:22.670 ⇒ 00:13:27.370 JARED PATTERSON: Going on. And this cause it’s all relatively new to me. I mean, we did something
89 00:13:28.050 ⇒ 00:13:39.510 JARED PATTERSON: in our capstone this year where it’s like, you know, we’re dealing with the volleyball coach and the volleyball team and creating like an app in R, using the shiny package to kinda find their input that they’ve been doing by hand, but I’d love to hear more about.
90 00:13:39.510 ⇒ 00:13:39.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
91 00:13:39.850 ⇒ 00:13:41.280 JARED PATTERSON: Went on, real well for you.
92 00:13:41.280 ⇒ 00:13:55.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I would say, the most fun has been like trying to leverage these new tools. Second, the biggest fun thing is when we onboard new clients, how fast can we get them like up and running? So we reduce that time from like
93 00:13:55.450 ⇒ 00:14:01.469 Uttam Kumaran: our first client was maybe like a month. Now it’s it was like 2 weeks, and then we we just released. Almost
94 00:14:01.660 ⇒ 00:14:24.397 Uttam Kumaran: get Snowflake, a ton of stuff set up in like about a few days. So that’s been really nice is that new clients can on board with us, and we can just start pushing stuff really quickly. The second thing is, has really been focusing on the team. So making sure that there is a clear set of responsibilities on the actual work side. One of the things that we recently did, for one of our clients is
95 00:14:25.150 ⇒ 00:14:27.849 Uttam Kumaran: is put together an evidence page for warranties.
96 00:14:28.185 ⇒ 00:14:45.830 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sure you’re familiar with, like the general concept of a warranty. But we work for this company called pool parts. They sell pool parts online, and we wanted to do a full analysis on their like warranty claims. Basically, how many warranties are getting claimed? And how does it actually impact their products?
97 00:14:45.900 ⇒ 00:14:48.239 Uttam Kumaran: So this is an example of like a quick.
98 00:14:48.290 ⇒ 00:14:52.529 Uttam Kumaran: One page thing that we would set them up with, which is like.
99 00:14:52.720 ⇒ 00:14:58.610 Uttam Kumaran: here’s the takeaways high level like, how does how do warranties program affect profitability?
100 00:14:58.989 ⇒ 00:15:17.109 Uttam Kumaran: A bunch of really great visualizations on it. And some and some suggestions on like what to do and like. How do we make better reporting and have a more healthier warranty program. The the onus for this is the client came to us and said, Hey, there’s 3 things we’re really focused on.
101 00:15:17.120 ⇒ 00:15:25.760 Uttam Kumaran: We’re focusing lowering shipping costs which we’ve actually done a ton of work with them on, we’re focused on lowering our marketing costs. And we’re focused on daily profitability.
102 00:15:25.920 ⇒ 00:15:53.229 Uttam Kumaran: And so profitability for their business is like the money that comes in. It’s actually the money that gets taken out for, like the cost of the products that they’re selling. It’s also money taking out for marketing, the marketing that it spend to get customers. It’s also money taking out for returns, refunds, warranties and shipping. So all of that. So top line revenue minus all that, you basically get your like general profitability. Of course, we’re not including headcount costs, warehouse costs stuff like that.
103 00:15:53.230 ⇒ 00:15:58.400 JARED PATTERSON: Right. It’s it’s essentially like, you’re just like looking at the income statement. It’s looking. It’s like, you know.
104 00:15:58.400 ⇒ 00:15:59.110 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.
105 00:15:59.110 ⇒ 00:16:03.339 JARED PATTERSON: Every revenue minus like cost of good sold. All that stuff.
106 00:16:03.770 ⇒ 00:16:09.470 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly. So. It’s exactly creating, like an income statement just for the Ecom part of the business, and just roughly like
107 00:16:09.850 ⇒ 00:16:15.540 Uttam Kumaran: for us to get all the headcount costs, and everything would be a little bit more lift. But let’s just say just the
108 00:16:15.980 ⇒ 00:16:17.880 Uttam Kumaran: sales side of things. So
109 00:16:17.920 ⇒ 00:16:26.850 Uttam Kumaran: in saying that I was like cool. If if probability matters, then let’s we need to understand like, do we have the right warranty program? Do we have the right refund terms.
110 00:16:27.300 ⇒ 00:16:51.030 Uttam Kumaran: And again we already handle shipping in a big way which I could talk about. But so then, so then I I was. So we start asking questions? We’re like, Hey, how’d you guys decide on like your warranty terms? What are the highest products that are getting returned from for warranty? And like, have there been issues like, should we turn off some certain products? And that’s exactly the questions that we pretty much set out to find main things. We’re like, cool, like.
111 00:16:51.110 ⇒ 00:16:52.176 Uttam Kumaran: how much?
112 00:16:53.040 ⇒ 00:17:02.950 Uttam Kumaran: how do we sell extended warranties, and how much money do we getting from them? So we’re getting about like 10 grand from them over the last, since, like historically. And we can see that we have like
113 00:17:03.130 ⇒ 00:17:08.929 Uttam Kumaran: roughly, like a couple of claims per day. Maybe it’s during the summer peak months when they’re really selling a ton. We have.
114 00:17:08.930 ⇒ 00:17:09.650 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
115 00:17:09.859 ⇒ 00:17:12.180 Uttam Kumaran: I guess. Additionally, we’re looking at like
116 00:17:12.329 ⇒ 00:17:24.073 Uttam Kumaran: by the skew. What are the what’s like? The total cost of goods that we have to replace due to warranties. And then we could say, cool, these are the skews. That account for 55% of all the replacement costs.
117 00:17:24.410 ⇒ 00:17:26.919 Uttam Kumaran: We could see how other things have changed over time.
118 00:17:27.020 ⇒ 00:17:30.760 Uttam Kumaran: And so this is the kind of analysis that’s like amazing to put in front of them.
119 00:17:31.237 ⇒ 00:17:38.319 Uttam Kumaran: And something that I get really excited about. Because what this, what this typically is is like a Google Doc with like words.
120 00:17:38.320 ⇒ 00:17:46.020 JARED PATTERSON: Right. I was just gonna say, like, it’s it’s more of like, you know, like a like a slide deck that you’re like your deliverables are a way different. If you’re not using this kind of stuff right?
121 00:17:46.020 ⇒ 00:17:52.390 Uttam Kumaran: Correct. Correct. And this thing we’re actually hosting for like 10 bucks like doesn’t cost us any money.
122 00:17:52.390 ⇒ 00:17:52.890 JARED PATTERSON: Brett.
123 00:17:52.890 ⇒ 00:17:59.490 Uttam Kumaran: Host this but what it did take us some time to learn the tool. And so this is like a great piece of like.
124 00:17:59.630 ⇒ 00:18:13.629 Uttam Kumaran: how. What I want my company to to be great at is like taking these things. That evidence is gonna be it’ll they’ll become a big company, or someone will buy them in the next few years. But right now they’re available and they’re available for clients to use that you don’t need to have
125 00:18:13.680 ⇒ 00:18:29.989 Uttam Kumaran: like a full data team to do that, you can use us right? And so a company that pool parts who’s using us to manage all their analytics. They’re now on a cutting edge tool and we’re gonna start rolling this out for refunds for all different parts of their company. We’re gonna use this for the analysis piece
126 00:18:29.990 ⇒ 00:18:49.889 Uttam Kumaran: right? When they have a set of questions and they want it. Analyze. We will no longer be just running queries and screenshots, or having excel like, I want it to live here. And all this code, actually. So all this is committed in a version controlled environment. It’s getting reviewed by the team. And these queries update. So you can see like things are.
127 00:18:49.890 ⇒ 00:18:50.380 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah.
128 00:18:50.380 ⇒ 00:18:55.370 Uttam Kumaran: Last week and this probably just needs to get refresh. But yeah.
129 00:18:55.370 ⇒ 00:18:59.180 JARED PATTERSON: No, I I then that makes that makes a lot of sense. And it’s really sweet cause.
130 00:18:59.380 ⇒ 00:19:02.199 JARED PATTERSON: I mean, it’s clean, easy to understand. You’re not.
131 00:19:02.220 ⇒ 00:19:05.190 JARED PATTERSON: It’s not overwhelming data, either. It’s like.
132 00:19:05.580 ⇒ 00:19:09.200 JARED PATTERSON: especially for someone that might not understand. Like, you know.
133 00:19:09.260 ⇒ 00:19:23.120 JARED PATTERSON: what different graphs are showing. So it’s it’s like simplistic for them to understand. I was curious touching on like, I know you mentioned the the shipping thing, and I noticed that on the website, too, I think it cut shipping costs with dps like a as as
134 00:19:24.330 ⇒ 00:19:28.480 JARED PATTERSON: what you’re hired to do. Obviously the data and
135 00:19:28.590 ⇒ 00:19:36.689 JARED PATTERSON: outline kind of where they could save the money, or where this there’s errors, or where there’s problems, or where there’s success and stuff like that. Are you then.
136 00:19:37.170 ⇒ 00:19:38.330 JARED PATTERSON: yourself
137 00:19:38.640 ⇒ 00:19:40.080 JARED PATTERSON: dealing with like
138 00:19:41.560 ⇒ 00:19:43.159 JARED PATTERSON: the the like
139 00:19:43.370 ⇒ 00:19:44.410 JARED PATTERSON: outside.
140 00:19:44.410 ⇒ 00:19:45.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
141 00:19:45.030 ⇒ 00:19:47.479 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, or like I was. It’s hard to articulate, I guess, but.
142 00:19:47.480 ⇒ 00:19:57.579 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I totally see what you mean. So this is another area where I am very opinionated in that I’ve worked with data teams who they just stop at the data
143 00:19:57.760 ⇒ 00:20:00.489 Uttam Kumaran: they’re like, I don’t wanna be in the meeting with the person
144 00:20:00.970 ⇒ 00:20:06.829 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t like for me. That’s not how this works. If we end up with the most context about the problem.
145 00:20:07.110 ⇒ 00:20:08.000 Uttam Kumaran: like.
146 00:20:08.170 ⇒ 00:20:25.640 Uttam Kumaran: it’s fair for the client to be like, Hey, can you call ups? I’m down to call them like. So I was in the I was. I handled the negotiation of those rates right? And so this is where the pro the again. The problem always goes back to like, do you have the skill set necessary? Right? Do you have? Does your team have the skill set necessary?
147 00:20:25.900 ⇒ 00:20:36.269 Uttam Kumaran: But again. That’s my. That’s what I feel like is an advantage of working with us. Is that another data team may not have had the skill set to actually go and talk to that company
148 00:20:36.450 ⇒ 00:20:40.530 Uttam Kumaran: and understand holistically the problem and negotiate the rates.
149 00:20:41.170 ⇒ 00:20:41.779 JARED PATTERSON: Right like.
150 00:20:41.780 ⇒ 00:20:45.639 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, that’s that negotiation itself pay for us like 4 times over.
151 00:20:46.360 ⇒ 00:20:48.140 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, okay, so that’s
152 00:20:48.150 ⇒ 00:20:54.769 JARED PATTERSON: like the communication, obviously a huge factor. And that’s like really helpful just to hear. Just because
153 00:20:54.980 ⇒ 00:21:06.720 JARED PATTERSON: I think it’s been kind of ingrained into like, at least my data analytics like the cohort that just graduated is the first one at our school. And it’s been like, you know, hammered into us the communication and like presentation skills.
154 00:21:06.720 ⇒ 00:21:07.050 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
155 00:21:07.050 ⇒ 00:21:09.281 JARED PATTERSON: Talk to other people about what you’re doing.
156 00:21:09.800 ⇒ 00:21:14.540 Uttam Kumaran: But but the thing I’ll say is like, you may have spent more time on this problem than anybody else.
157 00:21:14.660 ⇒ 00:21:20.050 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like you might, and if you’re good at talking, you might as well go wrap a bow on whatever the action is.
158 00:21:20.520 ⇒ 00:21:21.040 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
159 00:21:21.040 ⇒ 00:21:21.430 Uttam Kumaran: If you.
160 00:21:21.430 ⇒ 00:21:21.940 JARED PATTERSON: Also.
161 00:21:21.940 ⇒ 00:21:42.209 Uttam Kumaran: I have to go. I we sent this warranty thing to their head of customer service, and was like, Can you corroborate some of this and like, what should we do but like I did, if imagine I just sent it them over an email and like, Take a look, it would right. So there is some of that. And and at the end of the day I am. We are in the client service game. So it’s important that they’re able to absorb and understand
162 00:21:42.220 ⇒ 00:22:01.669 Uttam Kumaran: the analyses. But that’s what’s gonna differentiate us from another firm where people are coming in with videos off. And they’re just doing like hardcore work. The thing is like you wouldn’t have been able to manage a client like pool parts, because I’m like texting the CEO being like these are the numbers and things like that, right? But there’s no skin on my back, cause we’re getting paid. So.
163 00:22:01.670 ⇒ 00:22:02.400 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah.
164 00:22:02.400 ⇒ 00:22:17.239 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m I’m happy to do that. And I’m trying to build these long term relationships and really move their business right? Not just do vanity analyses where you could see nice charts. I actually want them to save money or go make more money, and very, very clear about that.
165 00:22:17.550 ⇒ 00:22:20.519 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah. And like you’d mentioned a previous call with me is like
166 00:22:20.760 ⇒ 00:22:27.452 JARED PATTERSON: word to mouth. Obviously, you do a great job. There you’re you could find new clients when they you know they’re speaking highly of you.
167 00:22:28.250 ⇒ 00:22:36.639 JARED PATTERSON: And then I feel like, just on another note which you mentioned. Would you say that like another kind of reason for you doing that is because.
168 00:22:37.320 ⇒ 00:22:54.060 JARED PATTERSON: say, the person that’s hired you to do it might like, if you tell them. Okay, this is what you should do. This. What she’s tell ups like a lock can get lost in translation as opposed to you, going directly and saying, Okay, this is what we found as opposed to him, being like, well, you know, they said this, this stuff.
169 00:22:54.060 ⇒ 00:22:59.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, you’re totally right. I think the main balance comes in. Is that like we’re getting paid
170 00:22:59.290 ⇒ 00:23:04.399 Uttam Kumaran: on an hourly basis to do work. So there comes a point where I can’t just dedicate
171 00:23:04.530 ⇒ 00:23:06.930 Uttam Kumaran: 8 HA day to one client.
172 00:23:07.512 ⇒ 00:23:15.169 Uttam Kumaran: But at the same time, if we are dedicating 8 HA day. Then I that’s a great excuse for me to go. Say, Hey, we we need to get paid for it.
173 00:23:15.503 ⇒ 00:23:19.906 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s ebb and flow like I I don’t really like. I’m not good at
174 00:23:20.370 ⇒ 00:23:33.759 Uttam Kumaran: being like, oh, we worked like 5 and a half hours, and like billing like a lawyer. I’m like we’re gonna do what we can do if it’s if we start getting like overwhelmed, I’m gonna tell you. And then you could make a decision on. If you wanna cut some projects, or if you wanna extend us.
175 00:23:33.770 ⇒ 00:23:36.989 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, that’s always been like my mo, like, I don’t think I’m
176 00:23:37.110 ⇒ 00:23:42.380 Uttam Kumaran: I’m probably like missing out. We’re probably missing on some serious money, cause you know, we’re we’re available. But
177 00:23:42.790 ⇒ 00:23:51.599 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I think the rates in this industry are good enough that, like, we can allow for some slack, and it’s more important to me to make sure the client is happy beyond belief
178 00:23:51.660 ⇒ 00:23:54.969 Uttam Kumaran: than it is to be like we worked an extra 30 min, like.
179 00:23:55.060 ⇒ 00:24:01.130 Uttam Kumaran: you know, and that’ll change, and especially that changes. Now that I have people employed by the company
180 00:24:01.150 ⇒ 00:24:03.649 Uttam Kumaran: that, like I do have to be a little bit aware of, like
181 00:24:03.860 ⇒ 00:24:09.249 Uttam Kumaran: what everybody’s doing and what we’re employed to be doing, and that match getting better at that.
182 00:24:09.370 ⇒ 00:24:10.830 Uttam Kumaran: But, like
183 00:24:11.235 ⇒ 00:24:27.420 Uttam Kumaran: the one thing I tell the team is like our job is to over exceed clients expectations, and to make it seem like we’re cheap, right? And we’re not cheap. By the way, like we that we charge a bunch of money. But I wanted to be like, Wow, like for just that much we hired like an amazing team.
184 00:24:27.490 ⇒ 00:24:31.030 Uttam Kumaran: and they really moved mountains for us like, I can.
185 00:24:31.030 ⇒ 00:24:31.380 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
186 00:24:31.380 ⇒ 00:24:37.019 Uttam Kumaran: Them on everything, on anything. And and it’s kinda like we’re let’s handle it by any means necessary. Right? And.
187 00:24:37.020 ⇒ 00:24:37.639 JARED PATTERSON: That’s out.
188 00:24:37.640 ⇒ 00:24:40.030 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how I’ve always been personally
189 00:24:40.090 ⇒ 00:24:53.590 Uttam Kumaran: in my jobs, my full time jobs. And so that was something that worked out for me, and that being like that, a lot of people were like, cool. This person’s a problem solver. Not like. Oh, I don’t know what to do, or I’ve never done this before. I’m like
190 00:24:53.850 ⇒ 00:25:01.490 Uttam Kumaran: I need. I just need problems thrown at me, like, you know. And so that’s that’s translated really well to the business. But again.
191 00:25:01.610 ⇒ 00:25:15.340 Uttam Kumaran: th, the thing I keep coming back to is, it’s no longer about like what I can do. It’s like, do we have a culture and a team of people that are determined to do that and I really wake up and are like we have problems for the client. And we’re gonna like bust through them, you know.
192 00:25:15.640 ⇒ 00:25:21.529 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, it’s yeah. It’s tough. Because every time I I hear, I mean, we’ve talked. It’s like
193 00:25:21.740 ⇒ 00:25:24.000 JARED PATTERSON: I get out of the call. And I’m just looking like.
194 00:25:24.400 ⇒ 00:25:26.990 JARED PATTERSON: All I wanna do is everything you’ve said is kind of.
195 00:25:26.990 ⇒ 00:25:28.220 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, yeah.
196 00:25:28.220 ⇒ 00:25:29.289 JARED PATTERSON: To me so.
197 00:25:29.360 ⇒ 00:25:31.170 JARED PATTERSON: And then it’s just finding that
198 00:25:31.910 ⇒ 00:25:35.739 JARED PATTERSON: somewhere to get my foot in the door, which is tough, but also like
199 00:25:36.030 ⇒ 00:25:41.719 JARED PATTERSON: I think the fact like the the potential to own a business someday like similar to what you’re doing is like the coolest.
200 00:25:42.230 ⇒ 00:25:44.680 JARED PATTERSON: It’s like pretty inspirational, because
201 00:25:45.140 ⇒ 00:25:50.869 JARED PATTERSON: I mean like you said the problems being thrown at you and helping other people out and like, you know.
202 00:25:50.920 ⇒ 00:25:54.959 JARED PATTERSON: I think that the team aspect is especially like
203 00:25:55.080 ⇒ 00:25:56.640 JARED PATTERSON: important. So
204 00:25:56.710 ⇒ 00:25:59.099 JARED PATTERSON: again, when you mentioned that and like, you know.
205 00:25:59.170 ⇒ 00:26:07.229 JARED PATTERSON: you’re the you’re in charge. But you’re also in charge of all these other people who are. So you’re making decisions that affect everyone which is interesting to me.
206 00:26:07.230 ⇒ 00:26:14.439 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And and you know, I think you definitely see, like, kind of like, what we’re trying to do. But everything’s a transition period. Right. It’s like.
207 00:26:14.480 ⇒ 00:26:20.669 Uttam Kumaran: right now, I’m even hiring like a project manager, because I’m doing all the project management. We have like 3 clients.
208 00:26:20.780 ⇒ 00:26:23.650 Uttam Kumaran: maybe like 6 or 7 projects
209 00:26:23.850 ⇒ 00:26:28.996 Uttam Kumaran: like. And you’re also again, you’re talking like head of sales and head of marketing, and it’s like it’s kind of like
210 00:26:29.420 ⇒ 00:26:36.380 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just like so much. So my job is, I’m I’m often the one person in the way of everything actually.
211 00:26:36.670 ⇒ 00:26:39.440 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, you’re wearing a lot of hats. You got a lot of stuff going on usually.
212 00:26:39.440 ⇒ 00:26:41.540 Uttam Kumaran: Wearing a lot of hats. But also it’s like
213 00:26:41.670 ⇒ 00:26:45.690 Uttam Kumaran: things don’t move because I’m in the way. And so part of it is like.
214 00:26:45.710 ⇒ 00:26:47.800 Uttam Kumaran: okay, we have engineering taken care of.
215 00:26:48.120 ⇒ 00:26:56.780 Uttam Kumaran: I’m doing project manager cool. Let’s take our project manager next. Okay, cool. Then we basically wrapped up reliably, taking in a problem executing and delivering.
216 00:26:56.810 ⇒ 00:27:03.749 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s settled. Now, it’s like, can we get more problems? So then, my job is like bringing more problems into the pipeline
217 00:27:04.073 ⇒ 00:27:13.159 Uttam Kumaran: and then reaching a steady state where it’s like as as like we solve problems and clients leave more clients that come in. There’s like a reliable machine around all this.
218 00:27:13.160 ⇒ 00:27:15.279 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, like the deal flow of it all.
219 00:27:15.280 ⇒ 00:27:41.349 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly. And that’s that’s something that like nobody on the team. I don’t want anyone on the team worried about that. Instead, I my job is to. I told, I’m really so frank. I’m like, my job is to get you guys as much money as like I can make possible right, and nobody in business ever told me that. I don’t know why. It’s probably cause they’re what they weren’t actually trying to do that. I’m like very diligently trying to do that. I’m like guys th, the way this works is like
220 00:27:41.670 ⇒ 00:27:54.690 Uttam Kumaran: the company has to make a bunch of money, and then there’s a split. And then you guys make the money so like, that’s just that’s like literally it and we have, like some expenses for, like Github and slack, and for zoom and stuff like that.
221 00:27:55.020 ⇒ 00:27:56.070 Uttam Kumaran: So the more reliable.
222 00:27:56.070 ⇒ 00:27:56.450 JARED PATTERSON: Has asked.
223 00:27:56.450 ⇒ 00:28:19.899 Uttam Kumaran: The more technical we can do work, the faster we work the higher rates I can get, and the more everybody gets paid. And like. It’s actually very straightforward. And I like it. I like what someone told, and nobody ever told me that. And I was like, I’m wishing someone just said like this, is it because it gives you a lot of confidence that someone’s taking care of that? And then, if you really work, you’ll get taken care of a lot of the times in in in jobs and stuff like
224 00:28:20.000 ⇒ 00:28:34.739 Uttam Kumaran: you won’t get that sort of directness, because the person telling you that isn’t really confident that they could. They will hook you up when things go well and like I don’t I? For me. I’m like I’m waiting to pay people like. For example, we have some people that are working like part time. And I, it’s unfortunate because I just don’t have enough
225 00:28:34.960 ⇒ 00:28:39.869 Uttam Kumaran: work or cash to bring them on full time. But I’m what can I say? Is that like
226 00:28:39.990 ⇒ 00:28:41.678 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna work towards it right?
227 00:28:41.960 ⇒ 00:28:42.530 JARED PATTERSON: Right.
228 00:28:42.530 ⇒ 00:29:01.139 Uttam Kumaran: I guess that would be my ask for you, too, is like, I think we’re probably now in like a better place, especially now that we have some like analysis, sort of work going that if you want to come shadow some stuff, or even again, I’d be happy to see if like, if you want to work even just a couple of hours a week, just like looking at stuff I’m happy to pay.
229 00:29:01.933 ⇒ 00:29:03.200 Uttam Kumaran: I I
230 00:29:03.420 ⇒ 00:29:17.000 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t want like last time was, I was really in the thick of some things, and it would have been a bust this time. I really want to see if I can give you some opportunity, because I can see that you’re like super super interested, and I don’t think you would have a hard time
231 00:29:17.110 ⇒ 00:29:19.890 Uttam Kumaran: picking up evidence or anything like that. And
232 00:29:20.010 ⇒ 00:29:39.960 Uttam Kumaran: I like again, I’ll there’s a bunch of slack channels for every one of these products. These are all like super cutting edge products like it’s a I think it’s a great experience. So that that would be my, that’d be my like offer what I can probably do but I mean at the same time, you also know how much is kind of going on in the business. So
233 00:29:39.960 ⇒ 00:29:53.531 Uttam Kumaran: well. Only thing I’ll say is like we should reach some sort of. If you’re interested, we should reach some sort of balance of like, okay, these are things I can take on or like. I want to try to dedicate, have some standing time, and and you also have access to everybody on the team. So.
234 00:29:53.770 ⇒ 00:29:58.749 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, no, I that’s awesome. A hundred percent interested like.
235 00:29:58.990 ⇒ 00:30:05.630 JARED PATTERSON: even just wanna like these conversations I have with you. I think they’re very enlightening to me, and especially just the industry as a whole cause.
236 00:30:05.730 ⇒ 00:30:06.920 JARED PATTERSON: You don’t get
237 00:30:07.330 ⇒ 00:30:15.538 JARED PATTERSON: that much kind of insight into the whole of what’s going on just through school. For sure. Interested.
238 00:30:16.270 ⇒ 00:30:25.920 JARED PATTERSON: I guess it would just have to come down to like you said kinda what you’re looking for me to do, and my free time available. So 100, I’d love to do something.
239 00:30:25.920 ⇒ 00:30:51.760 Uttam Kumaran: What is your what are your weeks looking like in terms of like like? Do you think you have even like 5 HA week that you could like try to throw towards something. I I would have to come back to you and tell you like what some of the work might be. But I mean I’m I’m even happy to have you included where we do nowadays. We have, like probably one meeting or 2 meetings a week where someone on the team is explaining a new concept, or like doing a bit of show and tell so for those especially it could be really valuable.
240 00:30:52.040 ⇒ 00:30:59.000 Uttam Kumaran: I think the easiest thing that would be try would be great. To try and throw your way would be to some some of these analysis pieces
241 00:30:59.370 ⇒ 00:31:02.620 Uttam Kumaran: where it’s like we have some like small piece of analysis. It’s like.
242 00:31:02.870 ⇒ 00:31:13.768 Uttam Kumaran: and but it’s like, also, if you if you get it, you get it. If you don’t. It’s like it’s totally fine. So it’s like very low risk type of work. Not that I I wouldn’t want to give you high risk. Work is that like you shouldn’t feel so stressed about this
243 00:31:14.180 ⇒ 00:31:17.470 JARED PATTERSON: Yeah, no, no, I that. That would be great.
244 00:31:18.200 ⇒ 00:31:31.639 JARED PATTERSON: I listen. If you and I’m not. I don’t want to take money that’s not deserving. So I would if you wanted to do something where it’s like, you know, I was shadowing initially, and then, if it was working out. Then it was campaigned cause
245 00:31:31.760 ⇒ 00:31:37.250 JARED PATTERSON: at the end of day I want to learn, and if you’re like teaching me some stuff on as we go like that’s helpful to me as well.
246 00:31:37.250 ⇒ 00:31:43.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe we could do something like that. And I mean, like, Look you, we’ve talked a bunch at this point. You know me like
247 00:31:43.720 ⇒ 00:32:12.559 Uttam Kumaran: I the way even I, Bret brought on everybody who’s worked for brain force so far is like, I’m like, Hey, come work for a week, see if you kinda like it, and then we can settle things so maybe that could even be best where there’s some paperwork and stuff I’ll have to send to you, but just to like Pop on to meetings and stuff for like a week or 2 kinda like poke around, and I’ll add you to slack and stuff. You can see everything. And then, in particular, I think if you’re you can, you’ll be able to work with people across
248 00:32:12.560 ⇒ 00:32:24.849 Uttam Kumaran: the entire function. But in particular, if you’re interested in analysis, we have, we have 2 people that are really, really focused on that and, you know, happy to kind of shadow them, and they’ll definitely be able to carve out time.
249 00:32:25.151 ⇒ 00:32:37.548 Uttam Kumaran: I have to hop to something, but maybe I’ll like. I’ll send. Maybe I’ll send you a note on that, and let’s try to plan that out. If not by the end of this week, like early next week. But I’ll send you a note if I don’t get back to you. Hit me again.
250 00:32:37.780 ⇒ 00:32:42.419 Uttam Kumaran: That’s that’s like that’s like the best thing that you did, cause I’m just like all all over the place.
251 00:32:42.420 ⇒ 00:32:54.360 JARED PATTERSON: I figured you were struck. You’re spread pretty thin with all the stuff going on. But yeah, here, I know you gotta go. Thank you. And I’ll like, if you don’t shoot me an email, then I’ll follow up with something. But thanks for taking the time today to speak.
252 00:32:54.360 ⇒ 00:32:56.159 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Alright. I’ll talk to you soon, man.
253 00:32:56.160 ⇒ 00:32:57.660 JARED PATTERSON: See ya bye.