Meeting Title: Uttam <> Ivana Date: 2024-02-27 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Ivana Saginova
WEBVTT
1 00:00:34.420 ⇒ 00:00:35.250 Ivana Saginova: It.
2 00:00:38.360 ⇒ 00:00:41.350 Uttam Kumaran: Aye. sorry. I’m just driving.
3 00:00:42.330 ⇒ 00:00:44.380 Ivana Saginova: You’re driving.
4 00:00:45.020 ⇒ 00:00:46.280 Uttam Kumaran: I am
5 00:00:46.390 ⇒ 00:00:49.509 Uttam Kumaran: drive into the grocery store.
6 00:00:50.420 ⇒ 00:01:05.029 Ivana Saginova: How’s the day going? I’m so unproductive today? It’s I mean, like, I feel like I don’t have so much work to do today. But I’m so active.
7 00:01:05.050 ⇒ 00:01:09.670 Uttam Kumaran: Productivity isn’t change, I would say on given day. I’m like, decently productive. But
8 00:01:09.710 ⇒ 00:01:14.630 Uttam Kumaran: I basically a lot of my actual day to day work. I’ve like offloaded
9 00:01:14.720 ⇒ 00:01:21.559 Uttam Kumaran: so that’s going really really well, a couple of the people on the team that
10 00:01:21.610 ⇒ 00:01:25.170 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve joined are really really good. and
11 00:01:25.600 ⇒ 00:01:30.310 Ivana Saginova: it’s like a good moment for me to just like, let them kind of like, figure everything out.
12 00:01:30.390 ⇒ 00:01:43.069 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like kind of putting them in the position to to take on the work. And like they’re the stuff they’re delivering is like. you know, certainly, like a little bit like in. I hired some people in different areas of the whole like data.
13 00:01:43.170 ⇒ 00:01:47.849 Uttam Kumaran: you know, Stack, because basically, I was doing the whole thing. And I’m probably like
14 00:01:48.250 ⇒ 00:01:56.350 Uttam Kumaran: BB plus and like every area. But there’s some of these guys are like A in one area. And so it helps me to like.
15 00:01:56.440 ⇒ 00:01:57.750 Uttam Kumaran: give them work.
16 00:01:58.070 ⇒ 00:02:09.610 Uttam Kumaran: give them specific work in the specific area so they can really like dominate. And then other work like I can take on and stuff like that. So that’s been really good. This is like the first, like first or second week, for
17 00:02:09.650 ⇒ 00:02:18.550 Uttam Kumaran: a couple of the people third week for one guy. And then so that’s going well. So basically, like, last week was kind of a transition week for me. I’m kinda like
18 00:02:18.810 ⇒ 00:02:29.529 Uttam Kumaran: everybody is on boarded like everybody. Say, Hi, like, let’s let me know you need access, or what’s the gist of what’s going on.
19 00:02:30.690 ⇒ 00:02:34.059 Kind of a mix of both. So one guy.
20 00:02:34.490 ⇒ 00:02:38.969 Uttam Kumaran: so one guy is a friend of shreeze. I pretty much at 1 point, was like, Hey.
21 00:02:39.520 ⇒ 00:02:47.179 Uttam Kumaran: I need like. I need someone who’s like a A plus like dominant killer analyst.
22 00:02:47.310 ⇒ 00:02:50.580 Uttam Kumaran: And I sent a text to like 5 people. I’m like, if you
23 00:02:50.590 ⇒ 00:03:13.210 Uttam Kumaran: only send me people who you would describe as that. Please don’t send me like anybody who was just like looking for fucking job. And then I got I got this guy named Jack. He came in. He did like a week of work for me, and it was like, really, really stellar like, definitely beyond what I what I have the patience or like, could honestly done in that timeframe. So that was really good.
24 00:03:13.210 ⇒ 00:03:38.469 Uttam Kumaran: The second person came through another friend of mine. I’m trying to hire some better like data vis people to produce like really, really good looking dashboards. And then hopefully, we can kind of expand that area of what we do, which is again a really, really time consuming thing, not my strong suit at all. I’m like, probably like A B minus at like doing data visualization stuff. So he came in through another friend who I pretty much was like, I’m in a group chat with some data people. And I was like, hey.
25 00:03:39.150 ⇒ 00:03:44.149 Uttam Kumaran: is anyone here? Have good experience with date of his stuff. This guy sent me 2 things I like, you know, this looks
26 00:03:44.160 ⇒ 00:03:46.459 Uttam Kumaran: really like really fucking good. That’s
27 00:03:46.720 ⇒ 00:03:49.180 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s see what we can do. So
28 00:03:49.640 ⇒ 00:03:54.919 Uttam Kumaran: that was really good. One guy from another slack channel. I’m in like a I’m in like this.
29 00:03:55.170 ⇒ 00:04:16.729 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a data product called Dvt. And I’m in their slack channel. And I saw this guy was like looking for work, and I pretty much hit him up like, Hey, here’s like one thing I need. Can you do it? And he did it like a day, and I’m like, cool. You’re in like, and then and then another guy I’ve been working with for a bit. I found him on like some online job site. Everyone, though, I’ve turned through like probably 4 or 5 people who didn’t
30 00:04:17.070 ⇒ 00:04:24.070 Uttam Kumaran: end up like working out and most of my stuff, I’m just looking for people who can really, really do the work quickly.
31 00:04:24.570 ⇒ 00:04:29.179 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, that’s like the main barometer I look for. So everybody’s been really really good.
32 00:04:29.590 ⇒ 00:04:31.659 Ivana Saginova: How many people do you have? Total.
33 00:04:33.100 ⇒ 00:04:43.480 Uttam Kumaran: It’s 4 other people. They’re all part once full time, but he’s a really cheap. So it’s not that bad. The rest are part time.
34 00:04:43.750 ⇒ 00:04:50.509 Uttam Kumaran: One’s like 2 of them are working like 10 HA week. One is working 20 HA week.
35 00:04:51.080 ⇒ 00:05:06.629 Uttam Kumaran: The one guy who’s working 20. I’m actually billing directly for his time, which is good. So it’s not like a cut of mine. The other 2 are a cut of mine. And one of the guys I’m like actually using some of the money I have to do some other products that that are just like.
36 00:05:06.830 ⇒ 00:05:20.120 Uttam Kumaran: not for clients, just for stuff I need internally. So it’s a mix. So basically, like, I’m just taking my cell phone. My rate is high enough that I can bring these guys in. And the clients don’t care as long as the work gets done.
37 00:05:20.400 ⇒ 00:05:29.729 Uttam Kumaran: And then any new clients, I will hopefully begin to assign these guys so they can take over also, like the communication.
38 00:05:29.760 ⇒ 00:05:37.919 Ivana Saginova: or at least like some of it, and like not have to have everything kind of go through me, but like the foundation of just like having some really, really
39 00:05:38.180 ⇒ 00:05:40.149 Uttam Kumaran: like talented people
40 00:05:40.220 ⇒ 00:05:50.090 Ivana Saginova: and and then I could kind of scale up their time and get them some more work. Now that I know that they’re capable before, I just didn’t have good people. And my bar for fucking work is really high, like I really
41 00:05:50.260 ⇒ 00:05:53.409 Uttam Kumaran: like, I want people to be like, damn, we should be paying these people like double.
42 00:05:53.530 ⇒ 00:06:13.119 Ivana Saginova: So that’s what the stuff I want to produce needs to look and feel like. And so these guys are like, actually, like, you know, close to that level. And if there’s anybody right below it, I can bring them up to like that that speed. And like with stuff like we’re doing, I can package their like a minus work and turn into a plus work. Right? So
43 00:06:13.390 ⇒ 00:06:18.639 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. are you thinking? I mean? I think you should. You should certainly think about bringing
44 00:06:18.650 ⇒ 00:06:35.859 Uttam Kumaran: some junior people on when you have like a steady amount of work, cause. I feel like a lot of some of the work is probably just beneath you in terms of like, how time consuming versus like, whether it actually requires a ton of like your brain, you know, totally
45 00:06:36.740 ⇒ 00:06:40.810 Ivana Saginova: one. but definitely, at least to like
46 00:06:41.000 ⇒ 00:07:03.000 Ivana Saginova: I. I’ve like 2 clients right now that I have consistently where it’s like. No doubt I have them paying whatever and that’s I mean, I’ll tell you. It’s 3 like the one it’s one of the girls is the kids clothing brand that pays me literally, Jack shit. That’s like frustrating. But I’m like it pays run. So like I’m not gonna
47 00:07:03.000 ⇒ 00:07:27.950 Ivana Saginova: cut her out yet so like guaranteed. I have like 4,000 $505,000 coming in. I need like at least 8,000 at all times, but it’s like last month, 8 13 this month. I made 10. So like until I have like one or 2 more clients that are like super consistent. I can’t hire anyone, because I’m like looking at March. I’m like.
48 00:07:28.220 ⇒ 00:07:34.760 Ivana Saginova: maybe I’ll only make 45 $5,000. So it’s like fuck. But yeah.
49 00:07:34.870 ⇒ 00:07:47.860 Uttam Kumaran: it’s also like, you know, you’ll get to a point kind of like I did where I wasn’t spending any time on new growth. right? So part of me getting them is, I’m buying back from my time, and then also, like, I don’t want to work
50 00:07:47.900 ⇒ 00:07:59.189 Uttam Kumaran: 12 HA day like that’s a more like a just like a lifestyle thing like I’d rather not work all those hours, and I’m willing to give up some of the money to do that. But, like, for example, I need time to do this stuff
51 00:07:59.200 ⇒ 00:08:07.660 Uttam Kumaran: like I wouldn’t have had time like a month ago. So these guys are taking care of all that. I’m paying them some money, but I know that, like
52 00:08:08.280 ⇒ 00:08:12.049 Uttam Kumaran: for the same rate, I can go get more. And if my profit margin stays the same, then
53 00:08:12.110 ⇒ 00:08:36.179 Ivana Saginova: basically, I can bring on people not do any of the work or do like 10% of the work. So make a good amount of money. I think you just have to reach that like chasm, right? And for me, it was like hard. I was like I could keep doing it. But it’s struggle to anything. Yeah, it’s gonna cut in some of my money. But that’s the bad I’m gonna make. And like, I think I’m gonna be able to bring in some more business. So
54 00:08:36.400 ⇒ 00:08:38.380 Ivana Saginova: 8 consistently
55 00:08:38.490 ⇒ 00:08:57.079 Ivana Saginova: like guarantee that I’m like, Okay, time. I was telling myself I’d love to hire someone, even if it’s like a person’s intern for the summer full time. That would be awesome. It’s not like I have to pay them so much. But we’ll just have to see. But you should consider getting people for like 10 HA week, and like slowly
56 00:08:57.100 ⇒ 00:09:02.160 Uttam Kumaran: offloading stuff to them like again. 10 HA week. If you’re paying people 20 to 30 bucks
57 00:09:02.190 ⇒ 00:09:06.449 Uttam Kumaran: a week, 2030 bucks an hour doesn’t end up being a ton. But.
58 00:09:06.610 ⇒ 00:09:36.170 Ivana Saginova: like again, you need to find it where like doing that work is like so useless like for the kids brand, I like Photoshop, every single image off of their website. And it’s like, I could literally give that to someone on fire today and pay them so little. But I’m like, let me just like again. I wasn’t so busy today, whatever you know, like, I just need like one more client. And then I’m like, now it’s time. Just find that moment, because
59 00:09:36.170 ⇒ 00:09:37.020 it like
60 00:09:37.020 ⇒ 00:09:46.150 Uttam Kumaran: seriously
61 00:09:46.170 ⇒ 00:09:50.469 Ivana Saginova: pitches this month. But now I’m just like waiting. So I’m like, we’ll see.
62 00:09:50.700 ⇒ 00:09:58.059 Ivana Saginova: and they’re not urgent. But now I’m like, how do I get in front of more founders? And so I feel like I should go to some like
63 00:09:58.110 ⇒ 00:10:25.990 Uttam Kumaran: a Cpg. Meet up in New York, and I’m like that sounds fucking gay, but like if it’ll no you should I mean dude? I’m going to. I’m going to a day for Meetup tonight. I’m going to like a founders dinner like I’m turning it back on because I just like I will. I only because I could walk in there and like and talk and show them I don’t want something to sell. I don’t. I can’t. A lot of people I know go to that shit because they’re they’re interested in like personal cloud. I’m like, no, no, I don’t even fuck about like
64 00:10:25.990 ⇒ 00:10:45.960 Uttam Kumaran: any of that like I want need something that I can sell. So that’s the thing is like, South by Southwest is happening a lot in the next few weeks here. And so I want to take some of these materials and be able to handle all of that out. And then I don’t know what going is like, what it’s not. Is it like, I don’t even think. Is it a thing like I thought, it’s just a mix of stuff.
65 00:10:45.970 ⇒ 00:10:59.039 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, it’s like you pay like I was looking at. It’s like 100, maybe $1,000 ancillary stuff.
66 00:10:59.070 ⇒ 00:11:14.839 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t. I mean, like again, like I’m not going to see, I don’t know is like, a exactly. Basically I’m getting invites like a bunch of dinners and happy hours and stuff. And I’m gonna I’ll like, run that train
67 00:11:14.840 ⇒ 00:11:29.390 Uttam Kumaran: and then just do that. And I didn’t do anything last year for it, because again I sell. So apparently everyone here is like fucking way, like way way, too fixated on this thing. I’m like, what am I gonna go listen to like
68 00:11:29.460 ⇒ 00:11:40.140 Uttam Kumaran: like some like sea, less celebrity like, talk about inclusion like I don’t know what the fuck you think my time is worth like, literally.
69 00:11:40.570 ⇒ 00:11:45.720 Ivana Saginova: See? okay. So I have your figma open.
70 00:11:46.760 ⇒ 00:12:11.410 Uttam Kumaran: So I basically did a couple of things. One I like really thought a little bit about the outline I use like Chatbot to help me a little bit with some of the copy. But I’m going through and doing passes. I’m actually gonna like print some of them out and like, kind of do some writing passes. But basically like that’s generally like, I think, the couple of artifacts that you see there. That I’d like to kind of get
71 00:12:11.450 ⇒ 00:12:12.470 Uttam Kumaran: into like.
72 00:12:12.950 ⇒ 00:12:29.219 Uttam Kumaran: you know, formatted well and and look nice. So that’s like the partnership, Doc, the fa queues the one page are like a detailed service offering. And then, once those templates are there, I can kind of go through and add other copy, and and just like repurpose them.
73 00:12:29.780 ⇒ 00:12:35.250 Uttam Kumaran: But I mean they’re really text heavy. So like, I would love ideas on like
74 00:12:36.000 ⇒ 00:12:37.599 Uttam Kumaran: adding more
75 00:12:37.770 ⇒ 00:12:43.720 Uttam Kumaran: like visuals or things like that, ideas on like the actual
76 00:12:43.870 ⇒ 00:12:54.000 Uttam Kumaran: like, how like what what’s like really bolded? What’s like bigger font? What’s smaller like directing people’s attention like. But I’ll also some of it is pretty standardized, like
77 00:12:54.080 ⇒ 00:12:58.000 Ivana Saginova: footer, and some of the messaging should be standard across
78 00:12:58.050 ⇒ 00:13:00.790 Uttam Kumaran: like each of the things. So
79 00:13:00.870 ⇒ 00:13:15.470 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the big thing. I kind of would. It would be great to finish these because a lot of the content, hopefully that I refine will then get leverage for the deck. And then the website. So what do you think about what you’re seeing.
80 00:13:15.600 ⇒ 00:13:18.210 Ivana Saginova: That’s great. Yeah, this is perfect for me to get started.
81 00:13:18.450 ⇒ 00:13:19.510 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool?
82 00:13:20.590 ⇒ 00:13:36.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I mean, like again, it’s just like the one page of the service offering. I have one thing that’s like to like for new partners. They wanna partner with us kind of some of the benefits. But again. lot of it is text heavy. It would be great to think about where there’s opportunities to add visuals, to make it more appealing outside of just like
83 00:13:36.480 ⇒ 00:13:40.760 Uttam Kumaran: the format of the document. But I’ll leave that to you to kind of like, consider
84 00:13:40.940 ⇒ 00:13:43.649 Ivana Saginova: great. Oh, that’s great.
85 00:13:43.730 ⇒ 00:13:44.929 Uttam Kumaran: No questions.
86 00:13:45.610 ⇒ 00:13:47.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? Great.
87 00:13:47.200 ⇒ 00:14:01.040 Ivana Saginova: Yeah. I’ve been trying to get it more of like a writing mindset. It’s been hard like it’s really takes. It’s taken a lot while for me. I’ve been reading a lot more. So that’s helping the vocabulary. But like, I kinda need to see all these and kinda like, I’m like.
88 00:14:01.280 ⇒ 00:14:07.399 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like. And now, anytime I’m like, I’m off time, like I’m at the store or something I’m able to like. Think about. Okay, cool. There’s 5 documents.
89 00:14:07.430 ⇒ 00:14:13.150 Uttam Kumaran: So just let me know if anything you need, you know whether slack me on anything, and I’ll answer.
90 00:14:13.200 ⇒ 00:14:25.929 Ivana Saginova: Yeah, no, this is a great start. I’ll do my thing on it, and then give it to you, and you can give me feedback, and we can just like iterate off of that bank details. I’ll send you some money.
91 00:14:26.220 ⇒ 00:14:39.009 Ivana Saginova: No pressure, Tom. But yeah, no, no, no, no, but I really appreciate. I will send you something, and then we can just like, I really appreciate again, it means a lot, so it’s not lost on me. So just send me that, and I’ll send you some stuff. And then
92 00:14:39.020 ⇒ 00:14:51.800 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, hopefully, after this, and then I don’t know. I’m I’m gonna I’ll tell you what I’m doing for south by Southwest. There may be some interesting things. There’s a lot of Cpg stuff here, and I’m friends, a lot of Cpg people. So
93 00:14:52.170 ⇒ 00:15:01.679 Ivana Saginova: let me know, like what you’re thinking about. I could even. I’ll I’ll just slack you some stuff I’m thinking about now that you said that it’s a good reminder for me, interesting.
94 00:15:01.780 ⇒ 00:15:28.899 Ivana Saginova: like. So soccer has friends that are photographers. And they’re they literally just email people, which is like obvious sales, but it somehow works for them. Some like Ha, like, I don’t know how that works for me and design. But I’m like what are like shitty Cp, not shitty Cpg brands, but like good brands that aren’t designed. Do you know, like all Cpg is like these cute quirks key like fucking colors and fonts like, isn’t there yet that I can like do some design work, for
95 00:15:28.900 ⇒ 00:15:44.000 Ivana Saginova: I think that’s a good way of thinking about it, but I mean, I think the benefit is like, if you go through once you go through like a warm referral, I think you’ll have a lot more luck. Second, like you might, you might be able to say, Hey, for every like, for every like warm referral lead, maybe spend 30 min and like.
96 00:15:44.360 ⇒ 00:15:48.560 Uttam Kumaran: take a screenshot stuff be like. This is what I would change and just give that for free in the email, like
97 00:15:48.720 ⇒ 00:15:54.620 Ivana Saginova: showing value initially, like, I think, for prompt for my work, because I don’t have a lot of ability to do that.
98 00:15:54.700 ⇒ 00:16:08.199 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, what I can do is I can say these are probably the challenges you’re gonna face. And I’m usually right. And so that’s my ability to silly. Say, I acknowledge your problems. But for your world, if you’re like, if you’re 30 min like, I could actually probably whip something up
99 00:16:08.440 ⇒ 00:16:20.219 Uttam Kumaran: half decent in like 30 min. Maybe it’s like, yeah for every lead I’m gonna send out. I have like 10 really targeted messages I want to send out like, Hey, I took screenshots of your stuff like, you’re generally like
100 00:16:20.420 ⇒ 00:16:22.009 Uttam Kumaran: what I think I could do.
101 00:16:22.170 ⇒ 00:16:27.840 Uttam Kumaran: I did some basic like wireframes like, I don’t know. Try whatever out that works, because I think people
102 00:16:28.210 ⇒ 00:16:37.919 Uttam Kumaran: people now don’t get a lot of that. I just get a lot of like AI inbound, which is just like they put my name into something, and it’s automated like you may find some luck actually
103 00:16:38.620 ⇒ 00:16:40.490 doing something a lot more targeted.
104 00:16:40.850 ⇒ 00:16:52.190 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, I have a lot of people in Austin. It’s like the big Cpg hub like so much Cpg stuff is happening here. So even sending examples of like.
105 00:16:52.430 ⇒ 00:16:56.400 Uttam Kumaran: basically what you’ve done and send me a little warm message. I think we could.
106 00:16:56.460 ⇒ 00:16:58.110 people would respond to.
107 00:16:59.350 ⇒ 00:17:02.189 Ivana Saginova: I’ll do it. That sounds good. I’ll work
108 00:17:03.890 ⇒ 00:17:05.860 Ivana Saginova: very cute. Thank you.
109 00:17:06.460 ⇒ 00:17:13.540 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, alright. Slack me, appreciate it. of course. Enjoy your grocery store trip.
110 00:17:13.819 ⇒ 00:17:15.780 Thank you. I will.
111 00:17:16.099 ⇒ 00:17:17.170 Ivana Saginova: Bioterror.
112 00:17:17.599 ⇒ 00:17:18.280 bye.