Meeting Title: Uttam <> Ivana - Discuss-Content-Prep-Materials Date: 2024-02-09 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Ivana Saginova
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1 00:00:56.390 ⇒ 00:00:57.780 ivana saginova: Okay. Oh.
2 00:00:58.090 ⇒ 00:00:59.830 ivana saginova: hello! Hello!
3 00:01:01.760 ⇒ 00:01:02.670 ivana saginova: Are you?
4 00:01:02.810 ⇒ 00:01:05.699 ivana saginova: Oh, my! Muted oh, my sound is off. Hi.
5 00:01:08.220 ⇒ 00:01:09.659 ivana saginova: wait! Can you say something?
6 00:01:09.780 ⇒ 00:01:16.399 ivana saginova: Okay? Great, I think. Let me just make myself a coffee. How’s the gym?
7 00:01:16.950 ⇒ 00:01:19.110 Uttam Kumaran: How’s it going? It’s going well.
8 00:01:20.400 ⇒ 00:01:21.609 ivana saginova: your department.
9 00:01:22.890 ⇒ 00:01:25.120 ivana saginova: What? The department?
10 00:01:26.700 ⇒ 00:01:29.509 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks, dude. My plans are going crazy.
11 00:01:30.160 ⇒ 00:01:31.380 ivana saginova: Yo, you bike?
12 00:01:32.360 ⇒ 00:01:35.799 Uttam Kumaran: Bike? Yeah. Dude, it’s actually a very. It’s actually a very nice bike.
13 00:01:37.020 ⇒ 00:01:38.279 ivana saginova: When’d you get it?
14 00:01:38.660 ⇒ 00:01:56.010 ivana saginova: Oh, yeah.
15 00:01:56.020 ⇒ 00:02:24.090 ivana saginova: when I was doing flow code merch anytime. I needed like how to go near some shit. I would buy it on Rei and then use my flow code card to buy an Rei co-OP account, so that I would get points or whatever. And so last year I got a thousand dollar like return, because I spent $10,000 the year before at Rei, and I was like, so I spent like I had spent some of it, and then I spent like 500 of it on the bike.
16 00:02:24.090 ⇒ 00:02:32.330 ivana saginova: and my mom gave me 500 for my birthday. So I was like free bike. I’m like, it’s nice, whatever
17 00:02:32.610 ⇒ 00:02:34.089 Uttam Kumaran: that it’s like the best
18 00:02:34.190 ⇒ 00:02:46.450 Uttam Kumaran: amount of money I could have spent like the best bike, really light and like, I’m not doing like any crazy biking shit like, I’m biking like a normal person like, I don’t wear a helmet. I have headphones.
19 00:02:46.630 ⇒ 00:02:53.740 Uttam Kumaran: I have a helmet, and I have, but it looks goofy. I know you look stupid. But do you know how much stupider you’re gonna look in the hospital?
20 00:02:54.280 ⇒ 00:03:05.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we don’t fall around here. By the way, although yo it goes so fucking fast like, it goes hell fast. And
21 00:03:05.320 ⇒ 00:03:09.670 Uttam Kumaran: I, yeah, II am really not like a safe biker
22 00:03:09.710 ⇒ 00:03:26.180 ivana saginova: air pods.
23 00:03:26.640 ⇒ 00:03:33.540 ivana saginova: Oh, Tom, I bike only in the park where there’s no cars, and I still wear my fucking helmet.
24 00:03:34.940 ⇒ 00:03:40.549 ivana saginova: Okay, I’ve done being bomb vibes. But where fucking? I’m milking this.
25 00:03:40.950 ⇒ 00:03:42.690 ivana saginova: Okay, okay
26 00:03:43.170 ⇒ 00:03:44.390 ivana saginova: afternoon.
27 00:03:59.730 ⇒ 00:04:02.320 Uttam Kumaran: You don’t wear a helmet.
28 00:04:03.570 ⇒ 00:04:08.200 ivana saginova: Dude. II do everything else like pretty by the box. Some things
29 00:04:08.950 ⇒ 00:04:20.560 Uttam Kumaran: just don’t grow out of. I don’t like I have it. It’s expensive. It was like a hundred 50 fucking dollar helmet. It was like a nice helmet. It’s and how much is your copay or your deductible and your insurance.
30 00:04:21.450 ⇒ 00:04:38.250 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know casually. Like to the store. Like to coffee shop
31 00:04:38.610 ⇒ 00:04:40.490 Uttam Kumaran: like I’m just telling.
32 00:04:42.320 ⇒ 00:04:45.330 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I will. I will try and wear it
33 00:04:46.100 ⇒ 00:04:53.350 Uttam Kumaran: alright. Talk to me about your marketing.
34 00:04:54.590 ⇒ 00:05:06.580 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just like trying to lean a lot more on like partnerships with people. So I’m There’s like 2 other firms that do kind of adjacent data work that I’m like
35 00:05:07.340 ⇒ 00:05:15.530 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve like kind of had like recurring meetings with where we’re like comparing accounts. And they’re trying to bring me in on stuff. And I’m also like talking to
36 00:05:15.820 ⇒ 00:05:23.239 Uttam Kumaran: the vendors themselves. like some of the software tools that actually go and implement. So
37 00:05:25.510 ⇒ 00:05:35.880 Uttam Kumaran: and like. So I just have like random meetings like that. I’m trying to lean more about people who have business and have reach because of one thing I don’t have is like I don’t have like a sales staff going, and like making calls.
38 00:05:36.000 ⇒ 00:05:37.589 Uttam Kumaran: So the more
39 00:05:37.940 ⇒ 00:05:48.410 Uttam Kumaran: people’s the more I can be in other people’s brains of like I’m the person they should call when they have something that smells like this the better, because then they kind of act as like partly my sales staff.
40 00:05:48.760 ⇒ 00:05:54.730 Uttam Kumaran: And then I find. And then for the vendors, I’m implementing their software. So it’s a good win win for them
41 00:05:55.110 ⇒ 00:05:56.710 Uttam Kumaran: to do right by me.
42 00:05:57.020 ⇒ 00:06:13.810 Uttam Kumaran: And the problem is is like, I don’t probably don’t have as much to offer to them as they do for me, so I’m playing like a little bit of a game where I’m like acting like a lot bigger than I am. But I’ve also done a lot of big stuff in the past, so I can like name, drop, and like, get into calls with people
43 00:06:13.880 ⇒ 00:06:20.870 Uttam Kumaran: so like, that’s some of the stuff that I’m doing. like a bunch of like actual data work to do. But
44 00:06:23.220 ⇒ 00:06:25.550 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. what about you?
45 00:06:27.670 ⇒ 00:06:28.940 ivana saginova: I
46 00:06:30.790 ⇒ 00:06:56.640 ivana saginova: I’m doing the kids brands investor deck. She sent me like a fucking 67 page thing. I’m like, girl. This is not your Mba thesis like no one wants to read this like I’m not, and I’m doing with like Olivia sent me it. She’s like, Hey, like, look at this! And I sent her. I was like, I don’t think you want my feedback on this, but based on the 3 investor decks. I just did with the fuck knows, else like we’re not fucking doing this like, here’s a template thing for you. So I’m meeting with her in a bit.
47 00:06:56.870 ⇒ 00:07:07.349 ivana saginova: and then I went to Soccer’s birthday party last night I hung out that girl Maya, and she actually just invested in the water company, and I was like, it’s such a fucking small world.
48 00:07:07.360 ⇒ 00:07:09.580 That that my other client.
49 00:07:10.020 ⇒ 00:07:11.319 ivana saginova: And then
50 00:07:11.360 ⇒ 00:07:19.379 ivana saginova: I just have other shit to do. I’m kind of thinking. I wanna ask soccer for sweat, equity, and Bagel Bunny. But I’m like.
51 00:07:19.850 ⇒ 00:07:31.639 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. She’s weird, like she’s very weird and like protective of stuff. And I think she’s very open and comfortable with me, but I don’t wanna like ask her and have her be like pissed off and like ruin. Our
52 00:07:32.160 ⇒ 00:07:41.270 ivana saginova: yeah, like I’ve never asked her to pay me for anything, and I know she like wants to like she’s looking to raise right now. She’s looking to open up. Did I tell you about this?
53 00:07:41.930 ⇒ 00:08:00.379 ivana saginova: Oh, she’s looking to open up a restaurant. She’s gonna call it bunnies. And I helped her with her investor deck. We’re meeting with Dt. Next week, like, I have some people like, I’m I’m helping her like a lot. And then, in terms of like Bagel Bunny generally like I did her branding. I always do her menus like small stuff, but, like you know it, it adds up.
54 00:08:00.950 ⇒ 00:08:10.999 ivana saginova: And so I’m like, okay, like she’s super overwhelmed, like all this stuff is stressing her out. Her Cpa is Nolan’s mom because I connected her and so I’m like, Hey.
55 00:08:11.190 ⇒ 00:08:33.769 ivana saginova: give me 1% or give me more, and I’ll help you out with more stuff, cause she’s never hired people. She doesn’t know how to manage a team like. There’s so many stuff that I’m like, you don’t need to focus your energy on this. You need to learn how to fucking. Do your thing, but also like, if she doesn’t want to give me that, I’m not looking for it. But I’m like, at least I’d be happy with like a couple of percentages I don’t know is that silly of me?
56 00:08:33.789 ⇒ 00:08:39.790 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. It also doesn’t have to like you just pay me. But I’m like, Yeah, it’s like.
57 00:08:40.610 ⇒ 00:08:45.280 Uttam Kumaran: if she’s gonna sell the thing and you’re gonna make money on it, it’s worth it.
58 00:08:45.470 ⇒ 00:08:47.249 ivana saginova: She wants to eventually.
59 00:08:47.580 ⇒ 00:08:49.860 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s no money in restaurants Bro.
60 00:08:50.240 ⇒ 00:09:02.209 Uttam Kumaran: like. So. So let me tell you. Let me tell you something. Recently that happened, Sri got opportunity to invest in like this really nice Italian restaurant, sf, call me was like dude. I got an opportunity to invest in like
61 00:09:02.320 ⇒ 00:09:10.160 Uttam Kumaran: it’s something I was like what he’s like, we’ve been there, and I’m like tech company. He’s like, no, I’m like what he’s like. You remember that Italian restaurant went to like down the street.
62 00:09:10.440 ⇒ 00:09:14.300 Uttam Kumaran: It’s really good. And yeah, they have this really sick olive oil.
63 00:09:14.320 ⇒ 00:09:18.020 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like.
64 00:09:18.950 ⇒ 00:09:39.710 Uttam Kumaran: well, actually started buying this, all of just because I went there. But the cam is also so nice. It’s called partana. It’s very quality all the. But I went to this place, and then so he, one of his friends, is like works for some hedge fund and the hedge fund. The head guy is like investing restaurants, and they’re like it will bring in like 2 young people
65 00:09:40.010 ⇒ 00:09:45.240 Uttam Kumaran: for like 15 k. Each to invest just because they wanted to get some more younger people onto like
66 00:09:45.270 ⇒ 00:10:03.119 Uttam Kumaran: the restaurant investment thing. And so but they’re opening a new restaurant next to the Chase center, which is where the warriors play like down the street, partnered with the chase center. So that’s something where he was like. Look, I’m not gonna probably make much money on this, but for access and for like cloud reasons, it’s like.
67 00:10:03.350 ⇒ 00:10:17.450 Uttam Kumaran: well worth it. And like, that’s like a restaurant like a massive like restaurant so, but like I don’t know, I think a lot of people have offered me equity in their companies in in the shit I’m doing. And I said, no, I don’t want that.
68 00:10:17.690 ⇒ 00:10:21.810 Uttam Kumaran: Why do you say? No? Because there’s no I don’t want to work for free.
69 00:10:22.200 ⇒ 00:10:23.430 ivana saginova: Well.
70 00:10:25.160 ⇒ 00:10:32.490 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been offered like, even in this whole process. I’ve helped some startups, and they are like offered me equity. And I was like.
71 00:10:33.200 ⇒ 00:10:37.890 ivana saginova: so what am II was thinking something wrong, maybe
72 00:10:38.020 ⇒ 00:10:41.339 ivana saginova: because I was imagining that at the end of the year.
73 00:10:43.350 ⇒ 00:11:11.749 ivana saginova: whatever, maybe it’s not okay. This is sound dumb. So ignore. But like at the end of the year. Whatever profits they have, they, they pay. No. What is that that I’m thinking of? Because Noel and I were talking about something else that had that law firms or like accounting firms.
74 00:11:11.760 ⇒ 00:11:18.039 Uttam Kumaran: There’s none of that shit you. You just have like a paper thing. So the the reason why you get equity. It’s like.
75 00:11:18.090 ⇒ 00:11:27.319 Uttam Kumaran: for example, in like a public company or bigger company, you may have voting rights, you can say, like, I want the CEO. I don’t, or like, I have 10% of the company. And then if it sells, I get something.
76 00:11:27.480 ⇒ 00:11:53.379 Uttam Kumaran: 2% of a company that doesn’t make any money. I feel I don’t care about that like there’s no profit share incentive at all. That’s something. Maybe you can write. And you could be like, that’s what I mean. I was just thinking about that. So like, okay, like, if the company, if you like, whatever she’s gonna do a million in a year, let’s make that up. She’s near. You have no Garrett, you have no ownership over anything except the entity itself, not on the, on the profits or revenues it generates.
77 00:11:53.990 ⇒ 00:12:12.560 Uttam Kumaran: Where was my brain when I was thinking about this. No, I mean, it’s I think it’s like a fair like assumption. But partnerships, the way they work is like, for example, in my business, if I was to bring in a couple of people, and we were like running a partnership like a Lloyd Law firm. The reason why law firms have partners is because after everything gets done
78 00:12:12.560 ⇒ 00:12:39.499 Uttam Kumaran: and everybody gets paid, there’s like X amount of money that gets distributed. So that’s why the partners make a fuckload of money. They typically take. No, but there’s no equity. A partnership has no equity. Yeah. We were talking about Nolan’s friend who works at not Pwc. But something like that. And he’s like a few years away from being like one of the youngest, whatever. And that’s what you’re talking about, but I just I like made a silly. Then you do a rep. Then you do a profit share of like all the stuff that’s left.
79 00:12:39.620 ⇒ 00:12:54.810 Uttam Kumaran: and there’s like a couple of other things. But in in put Pwc. For example, or like some of those companies, they don’t own equity in the company. They participate in a part, a profit pool that’s only accessible by the partners.
80 00:12:54.820 ⇒ 00:13:04.310 ivana saginova: and but the partners. The partner has to go get new business. So there’s a lot of other thing I was like dude. It’s sick, because.
81 00:13:04.560 ⇒ 00:13:22.420 Uttam Kumaran: like, although you could have put that 15 k. Into somewhere else, I think, for the cloud returns, and for, like we get to go to the restaurant, maybe you can get free bread. It’s probably worth it, like, you know. And so but I’ve had companies offer me
82 00:13:24.070 ⇒ 00:13:32.729 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve had. I’ve had companies offer me equity, and even some of the people I worked with, and I was like. But the thing is they I’ve just. We’ve worked at all these companies doing.
83 00:13:32.830 ⇒ 00:13:44.650 ivana saginova: I know I don’t want
84 00:13:45.050 ⇒ 00:13:51.679 Uttam Kumaran: you should. It’s a milestone base. For example, I just signed a thing with a company where they’re paying me $1,000 for like consulting
85 00:13:51.780 ⇒ 00:14:02.000 Uttam Kumaran: for a couple some hours of consulting. But they said, We’re only gonna pay you if we Ra, if we go raise our first round. I said, that’s okay. Cause I was gonna help you anyways. And so now.
86 00:14:02.120 ⇒ 00:14:11.659 Uttam Kumaran: but the the I was like, I don’t like that because I don’t get paid until they go raise stipulations like that. But we take what we get today. But
87 00:14:12.120 ⇒ 00:14:13.310 Uttam Kumaran: again, it’s like
88 00:14:13.330 ⇒ 00:14:19.250 Uttam Kumaran: I. If people are, if people really want your work, then fucking pay me, I don’t.
89 00:14:19.370 ⇒ 00:14:24.299 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. But then you should. This is where I’d like differentiate. Bring stuff. Cause you’re like a homey.
90 00:14:24.320 ⇒ 00:14:25.639 ivana saginova: yeah. And like.
91 00:14:25.760 ⇒ 00:14:32.750 ivana saginova: cause. Now, I’m like I’m enjoying. I don’t know. I think I could be helpful to her more.
92 00:14:33.220 ⇒ 00:14:39.490 Uttam Kumaran: But like everything it’s like if she identified it. Value is what it valid. It’s like
93 00:14:39.580 ⇒ 00:14:42.090 Uttam Kumaran: what they said. Something. I read something this week. They’re like
94 00:14:42.470 ⇒ 00:14:59.789 Uttam Kumaran: value is like what it’s worth like the price is what the value is to someone that you’re delivering it to. If she thinks it’s valuable. Then there’s Cost Associated, but you can make it helpful for her by saying, Hey, I’m going to just log my hours, but once you get your first payment.
95 00:14:59.800 ⇒ 00:15:08.629 Uttam Kumaran: or once you get the money, then it’d be great if you can pay me otherwise I can. II only have a limited amount of like charity hours I can get to this. And
96 00:15:08.640 ⇒ 00:15:12.420 Uttam Kumaran: it, Ser, let’s say you do get 10 more hours of actual work.
97 00:15:12.460 ⇒ 00:15:27.680 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the first thing you’re gonna drop. I mean, I’m already like there’s some stuff I don’t do for her, cause we’re like, let’s do Valentine’s Day cards, and I’m like cute. I’d love to. Here’s all ideas, and like obviously that fell off immediately. But that’s why that’s why, even for me, like if we work together, I can’t. I don’t want it to be like that.
98 00:15:27.730 ⇒ 00:15:56.550 Uttam Kumaran: Where cause I want to pay you, and because delivered. But see, that’s also that’s the. But that’s how I thought of it because I thought I was like, Okay, cool, like, I could continue to ask you for like favors. But that’s not what this is like. The value of the work you’re delivering, and I’m gonna pay you for it. That’s it like. So so that’s what I think she should make a similar call. I guess what I’m like thinking I want and like this is my decision to make. If I want. That is like more.
99 00:15:57.050 ⇒ 00:16:08.059 ivana saginova: I guess responsibility. And Bagel Bunny, right like, right now I think she comes to me because I’m like, I good like I get it like I understand her vision like we work together really well, like whatever. And I’m like
100 00:16:08.430 ⇒ 00:16:23.290 Uttam Kumaran: wanting to overstep and be like give me more in terms of like more. Whatever, then, I don’t know that I need that anymore. Ideal, you can structure there. But I think there’s a deal I think you could say, Hey, I want like an advisor role. And I want some percentage.
101 00:16:23.790 ⇒ 00:16:31.570 Uttam Kumaran: And then I want, like some basic salary which is like couple grand a month. And I’ll continue to just do what I’m doing.
102 00:16:31.890 ⇒ 00:16:41.160 Uttam Kumaran: and I get a title or something. Well, again, you find out what it’s worth to you like if you’re like yo, I, if I actually help you with this there’s a chance that
103 00:16:41.290 ⇒ 00:16:49.130 ivana saginova: the business will succeed beyond. If I wasn’t here really easy, right? And then it’s like, How do you get value out of it where you could have or pay you.
104 00:16:49.150 ⇒ 00:16:58.449 Uttam Kumaran: which is tough because there’s no business money, Matt, if she has. if she has potential to sell that business at some point down the line in 5 or 10 years.
105 00:16:58.540 ⇒ 00:17:02.329 Uttam Kumaran: Then sure, if you own a percentage of it, then that’s a really good opportunity.
106 00:17:02.520 ⇒ 00:17:18.460 Uttam Kumaran: But the reason why I don’t take money from startups is because they’re all knock. None of them are. Gonna I don’t believe that any of them gonna work, even even if my work is really great, if the work they’re doing is great, I think it’s out of their hands, like the statistics are so low that. And I, yeah. And I’m like.
107 00:17:18.619 ⇒ 00:17:29.079 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, well, I just don’t. I’m not gonna take your job. I’m not gonna take that gig back. But there are some people who I’m helping doing data stuff with just because they’re homies that I’m like, I,
108 00:17:29.130 ⇒ 00:17:30.500 ivana saginova: if yeah.
109 00:17:30.550 ⇒ 00:17:37.449 Uttam Kumaran: I hope one day they see how much value. And then they’re like, just toss me something. But like, but at the same time, I tell them, like, you know, if I get busy, this is
110 00:17:37.830 ⇒ 00:17:39.819 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s whatever so
111 00:17:42.450 ⇒ 00:17:50.780 ivana saginova: so interesting to try to pull up her. not me telling you her math, obviously confidential.
112 00:17:51.100 ⇒ 00:17:54.299 ivana saginova: one is that
113 00:17:54.360 ⇒ 00:18:06.189 ivana saginova: she doesn’t have in here her expenses, though. So that’s where I’m like. You need that in your investor deck. But she’s yeah. I don’t even know what. I don’t even know how much I just assume it’s so expensive.
114 00:18:06.250 ⇒ 00:18:13.069 Uttam Kumaran: Well, grosses after expenses, right? No gross is before before. Okay.
115 00:18:14.670 ⇒ 00:18:22.569 ivana saginova: alright, I’ll we’ll revisit this conversation. I mean, it’s tough. The margins and the margins and restaurants
116 00:18:22.760 ⇒ 00:18:24.760 Uttam Kumaran: are typically very, very low.
117 00:18:25.210 ⇒ 00:18:30.750 Uttam Kumaran: and a lot of expense goes to people. It’s tough. Because
118 00:18:31.040 ⇒ 00:18:44.739 Uttam Kumaran: and but that that’s why like, that’s why the money is really in like luxury places where, if you have like a Michelin star, if you’re really really nice, you can charge a lot, and then it’s in like drinks. There’s like certain charges $20 for a like
119 00:18:44.740 ⇒ 00:19:09.480 ivana saginova: good bagel like with her fancy topics for one bagel for one Bagel, and there’s you know how small they are. $17 like she’ll do. Pop up. She’ll have 4 bagels on the menu. Each of them will be like. We’ll call it artisanal, so like fancy. Once she opens up her store she’ll sell, you know, plain buttered Bagel for a few bucks, but like why not just keep doing what she’s doing?
120 00:19:09.800 ⇒ 00:19:14.050 ivana saginova: So she’s been doing pop ups. But and it’s really good
121 00:19:14.790 ⇒ 00:19:36.269 ivana saginova: because she doesn’t have the overhead but she doesn’t have a kitchen like she was paying for a kitchen when she lived in Brooklyn. She was with her boyfriend in Manhattan now. And there’s just like too much, and she makes she was doing wholesale, too, but she makes so much money at Pop Ups. She’s like I should just do this year round, and then she’ll be like, let me do Thanksgiving pickups, and she needs to figure out
122 00:19:36.270 ⇒ 00:19:55.410 ivana saginova: she can’t have them come to the build, you know, like there’s all this stuff. But like she also doesn’t wanna do just bagel. So I think that’s the biggest thing. Where if she opens up a shop, she’s gonna start doing lunch. You can start doing dinners like it’ll expand. And she, like, had her birthday party last night, 95 of the coolest people in New York. I’m like, Okay, like, you can have people show up on a Thursday
123 00:19:55.470 ⇒ 00:20:11.229 ivana saginova: just to like, you know, whatever. And at a pop up for the $20 bagels they sell out within 2 h. There’s a line around the building like she has unique products. She has the cloud, she has the community.
124 00:20:11.970 ⇒ 00:20:27.569 ivana saginova: Those are the hardest things to come up with. Anyone can have money, you know, to like start something. But she has all of those. So I’m like, okay, like I got to help you start it like, where can I get my coin?
125 00:20:27.580 ⇒ 00:20:37.090 Uttam Kumaran: She’s gonna succeed. Then it’s worth you trading off that time for that equity and getting it done in paper before she raises the money.
126 00:20:39.150 ⇒ 00:20:40.060 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
127 00:20:40.180 ⇒ 00:20:46.410 Uttam Kumaran: because I yeah, I just don’t. I don’t know, because also dude. I just don’t know if a restaurant like that.
128 00:20:46.840 ⇒ 00:20:51.389 Uttam Kumaran: unless she starts having a ton of free cash flows, gonna be able to pay your rates
129 00:20:51.400 ⇒ 00:20:53.220 ivana saginova: right? It’s always gonna be.
130 00:20:53.710 ⇒ 00:21:02.270 Uttam Kumaran: It’s always gonna be tough. I don’t know. I mean again, if if she really understands the value of it, it’s a no brainer for her to get you for free.
131 00:21:02.350 ⇒ 00:21:08.150 Uttam Kumaran: So you should probably say that that’s like that’s how I would explain is like dude.
132 00:21:08.280 ⇒ 00:21:11.729 Uttam Kumaran: You’re getting me for free. Here’s like literally what I’m charging.
133 00:21:11.970 ⇒ 00:21:16.080 Uttam Kumaran: but I want I would really love to keep working for you and keep delivering value.
134 00:21:16.490 ⇒ 00:21:26.909 Uttam Kumaran: This is like what I would hope for I don’t know. I think II it’s a fun. It’s a fun like creative game. I don’t know you could do things a lot of different ways so
135 00:21:29.620 ⇒ 00:21:39.799 ivana saginova: alright. That’s our exercise there. Thanks for participating. What’s your staff? What’s up with you on the deck or not? The deck, the materials you have for me.
136 00:21:41.330 ⇒ 00:21:43.460 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, we got email from
137 00:21:44.720 ⇒ 00:21:51.750 Uttam Kumaran: Keep processing for the next team meeting.
138 00:21:51.840 ⇒ 00:21:54.139 Uttam Kumaran: Schedule time to meet Tuesday would be great.
139 00:21:56.930 ⇒ 00:22:02.990 ivana saginova: this better be a
140 00:22:03.200 ⇒ 00:22:14.560 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
141 00:22:15.670 ⇒ 00:22:20.720 ivana saginova: I’m gonna be like, I got another obligation right after
142 00:22:21.140 ⇒ 00:22:24.289 ivana saginova: tuesday or Wednesday.
143 00:22:24.550 ⇒ 00:22:30.880 ivana saginova: I’m Wednesday. I have something from 1 30 to 2 30, but otherwise I’m free both days.
144 00:22:31.710 ⇒ 00:22:33.079 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let’s see it, too. Sec.
145 00:22:35.580 ⇒ 00:22:37.000 Uttam Kumaran: let’s do. Tuesday morning.
146 00:22:38.100 ⇒ 00:22:39.070 ivana saginova: Great.
147 00:22:42.040 ⇒ 00:22:44.830 ivana saginova: Okay, let’s talk about this stuff. So
148 00:22:45.060 ⇒ 00:22:50.810 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, just so I need like
149 00:22:51.090 ⇒ 00:22:55.360 Uttam Kumaran: I have the pitch down really. Well, I’ve had, like probably the last
150 00:22:55.640 ⇒ 00:22:59.049 Uttam Kumaran: 2 weeks, a lot of people hear the pitch, and being like
151 00:22:59.080 ⇒ 00:23:03.610 ivana saginova: dude. You got it down so I’m really confident in the content.
152 00:23:04.090 ⇒ 00:23:16.270 Uttam Kumaran: The kind of the things I listed is like pretty much the gamut of just like internal. And it’s all actually external, like branding of any assets that I produce. So the vision for it is like
153 00:23:16.550 ⇒ 00:23:20.099 Uttam Kumaran: is always what I said, which is like I need to come across
154 00:23:20.130 ⇒ 00:23:39.230 Uttam Kumaran: like we’ve been here done that 100 times, and one of the key ways beyond me speaking is through any touch points that I have with the customers translating that same level of like professionalism and sophistication. And the aptitude. So that is
155 00:23:39.700 ⇒ 00:23:47.429 Uttam Kumaran: prime. And again, I’ll what some of those touch points include. For example, today, I’ve had 3 people ask like, Send me your one pager, what your company does.
156 00:23:47.460 ⇒ 00:23:49.180 ivana saginova: So that’s one thing.
157 00:23:49.300 ⇒ 00:24:08.519 Uttam Kumaran: When we do proposals so very similar to what? What? You produce, something where I have a clear way of doing, not only like the like a financial part of the proposal. But a lot of times actually put together project Doc, of like things like that. And all those again, I just do in a Google, Doc, but it would be great to like fluff it up
158 00:24:08.620 ⇒ 00:24:11.509 ivana saginova: and make it like an artifact.
159 00:24:11.830 ⇒ 00:24:13.240 Uttam Kumaran: similarly.
160 00:24:13.260 ⇒ 00:24:15.160 Uttam Kumaran: I
161 00:24:15.590 ⇒ 00:24:22.170 Uttam Kumaran: the service offering Doc, I have another doc that I worked on, which is like. why invest in data?
162 00:24:22.400 ⇒ 00:24:29.610 Uttam Kumaran: Why, like almost like it, kind of answering like, fa ques, like 15 or 20 questions I always get, which is like.
163 00:24:29.670 ⇒ 00:24:44.769 Uttam Kumaran: Why do I need this? What are some examples of high value things that come across from this data? So all those things I’d like to just produce and have those maybe have the same header footers and structure. But a lot of it is like meaning like they may have the same like
164 00:24:44.960 ⇒ 00:24:50.550 ivana saginova: branding of it.
165 00:24:50.800 ⇒ 00:25:06.019 Uttam Kumaran: I could just write in like, here’s a question. Here’s the answer, and here’s like an FAQ sheet of typical questions that people have about like. why invest in data, what outputs can you expect? And that’s again really easy for me to write down and and answer.
166 00:25:06.540 ⇒ 00:25:25.680 Uttam Kumaran: the other stuff is, I’m working on like partnerships with other firms like. For example, if we were to take your firm as an example, I would create like. Here’s how like we’ve typically worked together so that when I go and pitch your services or when I go, and someone’s like, Oh, I need design work.
167 00:25:25.680 ⇒ 00:25:38.849 Uttam Kumaran: I have something easily that, like I, we have a Co branded thing that I can. Very similarly, for some of the other software, I use some of these other agencies that I’m partnering with. I want to quickly be able to be like I could slap their logo in.
168 00:25:39.170 ⇒ 00:25:43.929 Uttam Kumaran: create change of content be like. Now we have a Co branded flyer right? And
169 00:25:44.120 ⇒ 00:25:49.590 Uttam Kumaran: that’s that’s really great. And like again, a lot of that, I end up translating that.
170 00:25:49.680 ⇒ 00:25:57.190 Uttam Kumaran: How cohesive the partnership is, just through my language, but it’d be great to ship that asset, because now that asset they can go share intern
171 00:25:58.100 ⇒ 00:26:01.300 Uttam Kumaran: And then the last thing is, Dex, so
172 00:26:01.790 ⇒ 00:26:12.930 Uttam Kumaran: the whole notion is like II spent a lot of time like pitching people on this stuff, and then it’s like II want to have an artifact that they can reference. But then I need to be able to develop that
173 00:26:13.160 ⇒ 00:26:20.359 Uttam Kumaran: within like 30 min of the call after. So having, like a deck where it’s like 90 boilerplate. and maybe one or 2 slides
174 00:26:20.750 ⇒ 00:26:32.569 Uttam Kumaran: that are related to the customer and the product. And the the project is great, right? And it’s I would say it’s an evolution of the stuff we produce for one skin.
175 00:26:34.810 ⇒ 00:26:44.310 Uttam Kumaran: I think the only thing there is understanding. If there’s any design coes between that the other documents.
176 00:26:44.730 ⇒ 00:26:50.660 Uttam Kumaran: And then finally, like the website. So the website’s I absolutely like garbage.
177 00:26:51.780 ⇒ 00:26:54.860 Uttam Kumaran: that’s where like, I don’t know how much like
178 00:26:55.280 ⇒ 00:26:56.550 it’s almost like
179 00:26:57.010 ⇒ 00:27:03.600 ivana saginova: thinking of this like amount of information. Architecture is like, the website is a good place to have access to all these things
180 00:27:03.930 ⇒ 00:27:11.309 Uttam Kumaran: like anything that is not related to a specific customer. I want to put up there because I’m confident that it’ll sell itself
181 00:27:11.410 ⇒ 00:27:13.549 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of folks. I think
182 00:27:13.600 ⇒ 00:27:16.230 Uttam Kumaran: they don’t put that stuff up there because
183 00:27:16.330 ⇒ 00:27:31.109 Uttam Kumaran: they rely on in person to sell. They’re not confident that what they’re selling could speak for itself. I’m like very confident that if I’m able to translate through text stuff stuff stuff, I’ve delivered the Logos, it’ll sell itself.
184 00:27:31.340 ⇒ 00:27:39.599 Uttam Kumaran: And so many of my interactions now are like over text over something where I just need to get access to for them to get on the phone with me.
185 00:27:40.290 ⇒ 00:27:52.580 Uttam Kumaran: I think I if I lay some groundwork, it’ll make that even more effective, you know. So these are all obvious things. But I think I’ve been thinking a lot about what the sales cycle is and where I’ve had failures.
186 00:27:52.640 ⇒ 00:27:58.959 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of it, because I spend a lot of time answering questions that I wish were in an asset that they could have referenced.
187 00:27:59.180 ⇒ 00:28:02.010 Uttam Kumaran: I spent some time establishing myself as a kind of
188 00:28:02.120 ⇒ 00:28:05.780 Uttam Kumaran: like. I have some authority in this field. I’ve done these things before.
189 00:28:06.310 ⇒ 00:28:23.140 Uttam Kumaran: And then also the finally, when people on the back end go to pitch me internally, to like, get budget, or to like share with others they need to be able to almost like, have everything they need to go translate to their team or their boss, or whoever that were the right people to do it with.
190 00:28:24.200 ⇒ 00:28:28.179 ivana saginova: Okay? So I guess
191 00:28:32.420 ⇒ 00:28:40.279 ivana saginova: I think, like the easiest way to do this. This doesn’t need to be the way we do it, but the easiest would be if you had
192 00:28:40.330 ⇒ 00:29:10.040 ivana saginova: the one pager, and I just redesign it, and then I can make it like attempt like I can send you one where you’re like. Here’s a standard one, and then I can make it for you in canva or something like that figma. If you’re comfortable in figma, and then you can just copy, paste it over to your own where you can easily edit it. Change copy whatever, but just to have one that like looks good. Same with the proposal. And then you could say, like, Here’s the field that might be changing. I guess the
193 00:29:10.040 ⇒ 00:29:13.420 ivana saginova: bigger question in most of these is like.
194 00:29:13.940 ⇒ 00:29:17.549 ivana saginova: How much change? Right? If you’re like today, it’s a sentence.
195 00:29:17.580 ⇒ 00:29:23.359 ivana saginova: This next one might be an essay right like. Then that like changes the layout, but generally just like, send me one.
196 00:29:23.400 ⇒ 00:29:32.159 ivana saginova: I’ll design it good if you’re like, if you put one in, and you’re like this looks like shit. You can send it to me. I’ll tweak it same with all of them. Honestly.
197 00:29:32.600 ⇒ 00:29:35.389 ivana saginova: I can tell you what typically changes. So
198 00:29:35.410 ⇒ 00:29:42.890 Uttam Kumaran: the like. For example, if someone’s in another industry, I may create an industry specific version of it again. That’s
199 00:29:42.910 ⇒ 00:29:55.240 Uttam Kumaran: that’s totally fine. But that’s not every time. Not much again, as I’ve been doing this pitch I’ve been, I can notice I’m rehashing 80, so I’m confident that, like I can.
200 00:29:55.330 ⇒ 00:30:15.639 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not that much tweaking. The only thing that’s tweaked are like the project terms. And then, for example, recently, I’ve started offering strategy as like a service. So that’s something where I almost need like a it’d be like a whole new set of things. But those are primarily the 2 things I do.
201 00:30:16.570 ⇒ 00:30:25.059 Uttam Kumaran: And again. All this is like in my head. So it’s like. it’s like getting all that out. And then, if it’s text and figma, I can totally modify
202 00:30:25.360 ⇒ 00:30:48.439 ivana saginova: So I think, like this weekend, if you want to like put together, the one pager doesn’t need to be perfect. The text doesn’t need to be flawless like. I’ll probably make some notes of my own, but, like you know, in a good enough spot. And then send that to me, and then, same with like the proposals, or whatever you send to them. Epicues, Doc. Just make like a version of each of those.
203 00:30:48.530 ⇒ 00:30:54.320 ivana saginova: and send that to me. You don’t need to have all them done all at once. It could be once as you go. Yeah.
204 00:30:55.500 ⇒ 00:31:05.860 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. I mean again, like the one thing I’m trying to lean on more is like. II listened. I have to say so. This is really good. Podcast. Again, about pricing.
205 00:31:05.980 ⇒ 00:31:10.940 Uttam Kumaran: and the guy talks about like he talks. He’s like this guy’s like
206 00:31:11.320 ⇒ 00:31:16.120 Uttam Kumaran: the pricing guy. So he all he talks about. He wrote a book on my like How to price shit.
207 00:31:16.220 ⇒ 00:31:23.560 Uttam Kumaran: and he’s a lot of good examples. But the one thing he kept hammering home is like, translate the value of delivering, not what you’re doing
208 00:31:23.740 ⇒ 00:31:29.300 Uttam Kumaran: right. Tri try to translate the feeling, try to translate the value of. And I’m saying I don’t do that at all.
209 00:31:29.340 ⇒ 00:31:31.509 ivana saginova: and I’m not good at that cause.
210 00:31:31.840 ⇒ 00:31:43.229 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s like I’ve a lot of what I’ve written and what I translate is like what I’m doing. But I find it really helpful to translate what the feeling is of, like, what life is like. Now, which is like, you have
211 00:31:43.240 ⇒ 00:31:54.399 Uttam Kumaran: shitty data. You can’t make decisions. You don’t know things. And then what life could be and transient the value is where I think anywhere where you could check that content for that.
212 00:31:54.410 ⇒ 00:32:20.000 ivana saginova: Yeah, I can help. I mean, I think that’s part of like that one liner I did, which was like transforming raw data into blah. I’m looking for that like I, if I need to understand it, and like, what is it that you’re giving? So if you want to like, make a note of it, or like, I’ll keep it. I just wrote it down double, check it for that, and be like you need to fill this up with all the
213 00:32:20.060 ⇒ 00:32:48.279 Uttam Kumaran: technical jargon, all of the experience, and all like how, but for a lot of people, what I find that hits especially the more senior they are. They know the feeling of like what they’re lacking is explain, like, Oh, you probably have this problem solution. And then here’s here’s what it feels like when we solved it and then back into how we’re gonna do it right? So this is where I’ve had trouble putting all that into one thing.
214 00:32:48.380 ⇒ 00:32:52.749 ivana saginova: And I’ll and I’ll send you a couple of examples of, like some of the
215 00:32:53.330 ⇒ 00:33:01.010 Uttam Kumaran: vendors that we use. And I again, I’m in all their partner network stuff. So they give me all their collateral. You can see how they message.
216 00:33:01.030 ⇒ 00:33:05.359 Uttam Kumaran: They do a good job, and and like I don’t know as much as we can take from them.
217 00:33:06.060 ⇒ 00:33:14.980 Uttam Kumaran: The closer we can emulate them. They they’ve had a lot of success. But that’s what I’m trying to get to, because a lot of what I’ve done is just explain what we do, and it’s good for someone who knows what they need.
218 00:33:15.040 ⇒ 00:33:17.199 ivana saginova: But instead of trying to almost be like.
219 00:33:17.620 ⇒ 00:33:22.370 Uttam Kumaran: what’s the feeling of like what you’ll get at the end of the day.
220 00:33:22.750 ⇒ 00:33:26.890 ivana saginova: It’s kind of like the I’m pulling up my figma for you.
221 00:33:31.820 ⇒ 00:33:34.650 ivana saginova: the one slide that looks hold on
222 00:33:41.790 ⇒ 00:33:45.279 ivana saginova: and tuna. There we go
223 00:33:46.650 ⇒ 00:33:49.869 ivana saginova: where you say
224 00:33:50.090 ⇒ 00:34:02.019 Uttam Kumaran: the business challenges slide your information scattered from both places. It takes so long to get important information like, make decisions like, you need this for investor, whatever like that shit.
225 00:34:03.880 ⇒ 00:34:04.740 ivana saginova: Yeah.
226 00:34:07.790 ⇒ 00:34:13.229 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I’m gonna I’m gonna just work on a dock where I kind of throw all these like talking points together.
227 00:34:13.260 ⇒ 00:34:14.350 Uttam Kumaran: And then
228 00:34:14.790 ⇒ 00:34:30.210 Uttam Kumaran: I think the main challenge is, there’s just like a bunch of different assets that need to get created. And then I wonder if, like, maybe after that, we work on the website, given all that copy.
229 00:34:30.280 ⇒ 00:34:34.259 ivana saginova: put it together. And that’ll be easier to like website, format.
230 00:34:34.360 ⇒ 00:34:39.020 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. And the website is purely like it should, it should purely just be like.
231 00:34:39.409 ⇒ 00:34:49.500 Uttam Kumaran: if you go online, you could just get probably like 80, my pitch. And then, if you have follow up question, you go get that thing related to it. So, though it it’s like it’s
232 00:35:06.650 ⇒ 00:35:12.510 Uttam Kumaran: Pdf, I’m I don’t mind. I don’t know the benefit either way. I would love to
233 00:35:12.720 ⇒ 00:35:14.710 Uttam Kumaran: get a little bit of understanding of like
234 00:35:15.320 ⇒ 00:35:22.150 ivana saginova: the key things for me is like, I want to spend as little time making slides as possible. The second thing is, I understand, that people are looking at them.
235 00:35:22.340 ⇒ 00:35:44.619 Uttam Kumaran: So some of my clients have been using. Well, just one. And then I’ve put other people onto pitch.com. I really like it. It’s really easy to design in it, because Google slides is a fucking should show and then it asked for an email to open it so you can see who’s looking at it. And I think that’s great. You think that’s but can you export that to Pdf from there?
236 00:35:45.160 ⇒ 00:36:09.410 ivana saginova: Don’t send, but don’t send them the Pdf, you send them the link to. Yeah. Yeah. And then you send them the link, because I think it’s better to live like that that way. You can also edit it, should you need to. Right like oh, a typo whatever, but also that mostly you can see who’s opening it, who’s getting in there, and then be able to follow up. Totally happy to do that
237 00:36:09.980 ⇒ 00:36:11.900 Uttam Kumaran: whatever is the fastest?
238 00:36:11.950 ⇒ 00:36:14.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s it. Low lowest overhead.
239 00:36:16.150 ⇒ 00:36:29.920 Uttam Kumaran: as long as it’s not like a weird experience. For like the end person. And again, if it’s if I need to just export as a Pdf. I can like if I if someone’s just like what I just need to share a reference.
240 00:36:30.860 ⇒ 00:36:34.960 ivana saginova: I just II looked at the demo, and it just looked like kinda like, what was that one
241 00:36:35.120 ⇒ 00:36:38.170 Uttam Kumaran: like pitch represent pitch like
242 00:36:39.380 ⇒ 00:36:42.940 Uttam Kumaran: there was that one software where you like. Zoom named this shit. You remember that
243 00:36:43.460 ⇒ 00:36:51.810 ivana saginova: maybe it’s like a little old. It was like, there’s like it was like a replacement for Powerpoint. But you almost like zoomed in the car is it’s like a lot.
244 00:36:51.930 ⇒ 00:37:18.170 ivana saginova: No, no, they have a lot of good templates. And it’s just like, so it’s basically just slides you can present. Oh, my God, it’s fucking phenomenal. So first of all, let me show you this. You have like slides, styles, so I can go in here and easily make brand styles. So there’s title, headline, sub headline, whatever, and I can hit edit.
245 00:37:18.170 ⇒ 00:37:29.270 ivana saginova: And then here it is. Everything I update here, updates it across the whole fucking thing. And obviously they have these things. You can do it.
246 00:37:29.500 ⇒ 00:37:32.779 ivana saginova: I can zoom in. I can zoom out.
247 00:37:32.910 ⇒ 00:37:44.600 ivana saginova: I can like. Do you know, it’s just like, great, great, great. Yeah, I love it. So it’s super easy to like, move fast in here and do stuff. And I think that’s like all that matters.
248 00:37:44.870 ⇒ 00:37:50.359 ivana saginova: Yeah. And then I can send you a different link, so you can see what it looks like as
249 00:37:51.480 ⇒ 00:37:54.360 Uttam Kumaran: open it in like, yeah.
250 00:37:55.820 ⇒ 00:37:59.860 ivana saginova: Share externally. New link.
251 00:38:00.370 ⇒ 00:38:14.220 ivana saginova: Yeah. You see this right here request code. Get visitor consent? No, we don’t want it. Consent. Create. where’s my link? Copy? Okay? Great.
252 00:38:17.230 ⇒ 00:38:24.359 ivana saginova: And I’m I’m paying for pitch. I don’t know how much costs, but this is what it looks like for a viewer.
253 00:38:25.420 ⇒ 00:38:26.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool.
254 00:38:27.700 ⇒ 00:38:33.540 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy with this. Yeah, I as long as it’s like easy, whatever’s easiest cause
255 00:38:33.680 ⇒ 00:38:36.709 Uttam Kumaran: I know people doing, figma. But then it’s a little bit hard for me to edit.
256 00:38:37.100 ⇒ 00:39:02.830 Uttam Kumaran: No, I don’t do.
257 00:39:02.850 ⇒ 00:39:21.780 Uttam Kumaran: And people ask you all the time I want to like speed that up asset to text them super easy to just plug it.
258 00:39:23.450 ⇒ 00:39:24.550 ivana saginova: Okay, cool.
259 00:39:25.320 ⇒ 00:39:32.719 Uttam Kumaran: So you’ll do something over the weekend for it on Monday, and we’ll go from there.
260 00:39:33.010 ⇒ 00:39:43.870 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy. This is a long time coming. It’s just been like brutal to do this every time, but it’s tough cause. II have to do it 100 times to kind of nail it. And then you need to figure it out first. So yeah.
261 00:39:44.040 ⇒ 00:39:52.710 Uttam Kumaran: But again that I’m finding it just like a lot of this stuff I’m saying over and over again. and then again, I need a I just want the brain
262 00:39:52.730 ⇒ 00:39:56.540 Uttam Kumaran: to be able to like. Show that to some authority here, and then
263 00:39:56.760 ⇒ 00:40:07.639 ivana saginova: it at least matches what everybody else is doing. Cause then, at least I know the product is better. Mine is good, and it just gets me the same meetings, I can close them. So
264 00:40:08.070 ⇒ 00:40:08.750 Uttam Kumaran: okay.
265 00:40:08.900 ⇒ 00:40:24.249 ivana saginova: we got it. Now, you have me thinking, if I should add different to my website, I know, looks cool, and it’s been working so far. It gives me that trust. But I realize what I’m doing really
266 00:40:24.270 ⇒ 00:40:28.659 ivana saginova: is just working with early companies
267 00:40:28.850 ⇒ 00:40:37.640 ivana saginova: and being their in house design like I spoke to a girl the other day. She’s did I tell you about her? The beer brand
268 00:40:37.830 ⇒ 00:40:38.590 Uttam Kumaran: now
269 00:40:38.670 ⇒ 00:40:55.670 ivana saginova: she I saw her on Tiktok like 6 months ago, maybe. And then Maya texted me and was like, Hey, I want wanna connect you with this girl, Ray. She’s starting a light beer company targeted towards women, and I was like, Oh, should I seen her? I talked her on the phone. She just got a shit ton of money
270 00:40:55.670 ⇒ 00:41:23.820 ivana saginova: and she’s like, I think I need to hire someone for Tiktok. And I also need a designer. I think I wanna hire one person, and I was like, here’s all the reasons you shouldn’t do it. Just hire part time. Like all the companies I work with are like big enough companies. They don’t need a full time designer. You don’t need a full time designer. You need someone that’s good at Tiktok and marketing outsource that shit the moment you hire someone in house, you’re a startup. They’re gonna do everything social is immediately back burner. So I’m like, essentially what I’m doing is just being that like in house
271 00:41:23.850 ⇒ 00:41:48.570 Uttam Kumaran: thing person, whatever. But the value is interesting. I don’t know. I just went on, a big ramp isn’t about software pricing. It’s probably like the key way we interact with pricing. But he talks about like he talks about how Porsch did their pricing. It’s it’s just like it gives a lot of anecdotes, and it’s like good to think about. And then he talked a lot about the language and
272 00:41:48.570 ⇒ 00:42:11.300 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know you. I see a lot of people will do like on Twitter, like landing page designs. And then but what they’re actually doing is is just like having really clear call to actions really clear value props, and then trying to guide you towards what’s next? I love this. How do I get a call? So across the board is just like making that easy for people. But also like.
273 00:42:11.360 ⇒ 00:42:17.080 Uttam Kumaran: I think, a lot of my stuff is so technical. So I I’m trying to like.
274 00:42:17.130 ⇒ 00:42:41.050 ivana saginova: I don’t wanna say an easier sell. It’s it’s different, because yours is just like people obviously need this. It’s more just framing it in the way that’s like, here’s the should show your end like I can easily solve it to you, and it like immediately provides tangible value, and you can instantly be making more money and optimize your business. Yeah, exactly. So it’s yeah.
275 00:42:41.920 ⇒ 00:42:46.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I wanna see, like, kind of how it ends up like working. And but
276 00:42:47.330 ⇒ 00:43:08.189 Uttam Kumaran: again, I just know the pitch I have is so is like it’s so clear to me now. The people are receptive. The problem is like half of them don’t have money. So they’re like, I don’t have money, but that’s actually good cause it’s not like, oh, that’s the only that was the only problem. What I said or like it was just that money which is, that’s just a you’re just that, shouldn’t. I should
277 00:43:08.190 ⇒ 00:43:21.050 Uttam Kumaran: bad call design stuff. I really see it just like scaling. And then now again, I do so much stuff over text and things. Yeah.
278 00:43:21.080 ⇒ 00:43:25.620 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’m I’m competing with all these boomers who like need you to get on a call.
279 00:43:25.680 ⇒ 00:43:38.869 Uttam Kumaran: Follow up blah! Blah! Blah! No, no, no. I’m gonna text you everything. And then, like, let’s do the deal right. I’m able to move that fast and like that’s what I think is like the differentiator. A lot of time.
280 00:43:40.850 ⇒ 00:43:42.660 ivana saginova: Did you freeze, or did I freeze?
281 00:43:43.870 ⇒ 00:43:45.400 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe I lost you?
282 00:43:45.570 ⇒ 00:43:47.140 ivana saginova: Hmm, hello!
283 00:43:48.120 ⇒ 00:43:55.720 ivana saginova: So there we go. We’re back.
284 00:43:56.000 ⇒ 00:44:06.899 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s something that like because we’re young. I think we’re unique in that. I need to. I wanna like gas that up a lot of other firms. They’ll put you. They’ll run you through a gamut of people. Emails shit like that like
285 00:44:07.540 ⇒ 00:44:12.139 ivana saginova: I don’t want to do any of that, you know.
286 00:44:12.210 ⇒ 00:44:22.890 Uttam Kumaran: but I’m finding that that’s like actually been really helpful. People is like being able to work at that pace. But again for a lot of companies like they. They wouldn’t go on a pitchcom and do it. They wouldn’t
287 00:44:23.170 ⇒ 00:44:28.939 Uttam Kumaran: develop assets in a way that are really modular, like, they need approvals. All that shit is like
288 00:44:29.420 ⇒ 00:44:31.020 Uttam Kumaran: pulling them back.
289 00:44:31.080 ⇒ 00:44:33.110 ivana saginova: So yeah.
290 00:44:36.160 ⇒ 00:44:45.989 ivana saginova: okay, cool, I’ll send you that podcast it’s good. I’ll write some stuff this weekend, and I’ll send it to you after the call. But feedback on my pitch
291 00:44:46.010 ⇒ 00:44:54.639 Uttam Kumaran: to Sue, I was like nervous at first. I think you ran really quick. I was gonna send you a thing like slow down. But I was like
292 00:44:54.910 ⇒ 00:45:03.049 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t want to like fuck up your flow. I I know we didn’t have that much time. but I think your deck is really really good.
293 00:45:03.120 ⇒ 00:45:12.119 Uttam Kumaran: and I think you’re taking people through a logical story. And so you can just go way slower.
294 00:45:12.300 ⇒ 00:45:21.880 Uttam Kumaran: III realize this about myself, too, because Zoom told me that I talk way too fast. and so I’m trying to also be a little bit more mindful of
295 00:45:22.010 ⇒ 00:45:25.130 Uttam Kumaran: saying something, pausing, saying something, pausing.
296 00:45:25.230 ⇒ 00:45:27.730 ivana saginova: I’m I’m trying. I don’t think I’ve
297 00:45:27.880 ⇒ 00:45:33.120 Uttam Kumaran: done that well, but cause I get excited, and I just start talking about what I like to talk about. But
298 00:45:33.170 ⇒ 00:45:36.780 Uttam Kumaran: that’s one thing II would think is like, go a little bit slower and then
299 00:45:36.850 ⇒ 00:45:41.349 Uttam Kumaran: use the slides to your advantage like you can reference bring up the visual.
300 00:45:41.580 ⇒ 00:45:56.909 Uttam Kumaran: I’m really a lot more. People are more visual than I thought, maybe because I just interacted with a lot of like engineers before. But having a visual is really really great. It gives some people like a light layer of distraction, maybe like hooked. And then they also listen to you. And then there’s like a back and forth.
301 00:45:57.480 ⇒ 00:46:09.029 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, that’s probably the only thing I would say. I still don’t know whether it would have been best for us to go through costs, and that call or not. I’m like I don’t know. I just don’t have like
302 00:46:09.050 ⇒ 00:46:12.099 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I don’t know yet what’s the best move. But
303 00:46:15.770 ⇒ 00:46:16.750 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
304 00:46:17.880 ⇒ 00:46:20.639 Uttam Kumaran: I think that was the only thing. I think everything else.
305 00:46:20.780 ⇒ 00:46:22.910 ivana saginova: Hmm! That’s fine, not fun.
306 00:46:22.930 ⇒ 00:46:42.220 ivana saginova: Yeah. Costa is like, I don’t know if I make it a slide. I didn’t know like II don’t know. So I was like, I don’t have as much contact. I don’t know if she had new things, I mean I had all the contacts you gave me, which was a lot, and apparently all I needed. But then I was like, I don’t know if she has more, but she was like, here’s the flows, and I’m like we’re not there yet.
307 00:46:42.240 ⇒ 00:46:48.770 ivana saginova: Exactly so on those things, too. Like II don’t know. I’m getting better at trying to disqualify. So.
308 00:46:48.830 ⇒ 00:46:54.040 Uttam Kumaran: for example, like next meeting is, gonna be 30 min. Cause if 4 of us talk for 30 min.
309 00:46:54.260 ⇒ 00:47:00.150 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll each have like 5 4 min to talk, which is perfect, which means like nothing. You can’t really talk about anything else.
310 00:47:00.270 ⇒ 00:47:15.680 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m trying to do more things like that, and and cause I’m the same way. We’re all. But you do good job being like. Let’s not talk about that. I’ll just start being like you should do this. Let me call you this person like I start doing a lot of free shit.
311 00:47:15.880 ⇒ 00:47:30.640 ivana saginova: Well, I get into that. I’m like, this is where I’m like, I think I do that sometimes where I’m like. I want you to know that I’m well connected enough that I understand this. I have background enough whatever, but also like, keep going like
312 00:47:30.790 ⇒ 00:47:42.700 ivana saginova: this is for you to think about and know for later. For me, the deal we’re not like delving into this topic right now.
313 00:47:43.160 ⇒ 00:47:49.530 Uttam Kumaran: in a way where you’re like. Damn! They are like he did this shit for free, which is like, Oh, for example.
314 00:47:49.640 ⇒ 00:48:05.840 Uttam Kumaran: I know somebody at this company. Let me just write the Intro anyways, and then I’ll text that person. But yeah, there’s something and work on just like, see what happens, whatever I’m just trying to get this deal. So that’s some of the things I’m trying to get out where it’s like, how can I add value really quickly to show something.
315 00:48:06.830 ⇒ 00:48:22.179 ivana saginova: But again, there’s a lot of people that have it that will exploit me for that, like there’s a fine balance, because I’m like there’s that like the girl. Ray. I’m like here, talk to this like Tiktok, or like he can talk to you about tick, tock. I don’t know. Shit whatever help there. But then I’m like.
316 00:48:22.860 ⇒ 00:48:49.819 ivana saginova: what was I gonna say, you’re just like you can’t. You can’t do too much cause they’re not thinking. Wow! He’s being so helpful already, they’re thinking, oh. why would I pay him like they’re not thinking, oh, wow! This is so nice of him to do this. They’re thinking I need something done, and I want to spend no money on it. But I know I’m gonna have to pay, and I have budget, whatever. But they’re like everyone is like, How do I do this as low cost as possible?
317 00:48:50.590 ⇒ 00:48:51.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
318 00:48:51.970 ⇒ 00:48:55.049 Uttam Kumaran: Also, the other someone told me today, like.
319 00:48:55.320 ⇒ 00:49:00.429 Uttam Kumaran: the one thing I realized is a lot of this stuff I did over the summer and in the fall, as a coming back around now.
320 00:49:00.670 ⇒ 00:49:11.890 Uttam Kumaran: So someone was like, you know, most of our things take a year before initial to like getting everything the closing so done a lot better at I like. And this is where I really feel like
321 00:49:12.000 ⇒ 00:49:29.500 Uttam Kumaran: I’m way better than some other people, and in in just in general, where it’s like, I’ll just meet people and be like, have someone to tell them every like month or so. and I just do that. And just naturally oh, I came across something. Yo, you should read this. It’s like right up your alley, and that helps to like nurture that some other people will be like. Oh, this is over! Well, this is done. I’m like, no, no.
322 00:49:29.960 ⇒ 00:49:43.770 Uttam Kumaran: never over like that person succeeds. We’re coming right back, like, you know. And so I I’m finding more ways to try to just be like, yeah, maybe you can’t afford me right now. If I’ll
323 00:49:43.820 ⇒ 00:49:51.870 Uttam Kumaran: every month I’ll try to send something your way, or make an intro or like oh, you’re you’re gonna bring on like an analyst just I can talk to them for 30 min.
324 00:49:51.900 ⇒ 00:50:01.890 Uttam Kumaran: and this because when they if they do get the money like I wanna but what is like the if and when, like some people just won’t have money to afford you ever.
325 00:50:02.290 ⇒ 00:50:03.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
326 00:50:04.160 ⇒ 00:50:10.410 Uttam Kumaran: that’s true. But then but again, for I won’t do anything that’s beyond like an hour, a month, or anything.
327 00:50:10.590 ⇒ 00:50:20.289 Uttam Kumaran: For example, for example, this one company they initially like I had. This is one where it’s really bad, where they wanted me to help them with like this really complicated
328 00:50:20.700 ⇒ 00:50:27.369 Uttam Kumaran: data thing. And I spent like a lot of hours talking on the phone and doing this. And then eventually, it was like.
329 00:50:27.430 ⇒ 00:50:32.800 Uttam Kumaran: can’t afford you. That guy ran an agency before. So he knows now he’s not gonna be able for me.
330 00:50:33.600 ⇒ 00:50:36.260 Uttam Kumaran: But I was like, Okay, and then
331 00:50:36.620 ⇒ 00:50:49.020 Uttam Kumaran: they’re gonna go raise money. And they hired an engineer that can you talk to him? And I was like, Okay, I’ll talk to him. and they’re gonna raise money. But that’s something where it was tough cause I really wanted to help. I knew I could deliver that thing, but they had no money.
332 00:50:49.370 ⇒ 00:50:55.299 Uttam Kumaran: and I just like had to really pull back and be like, Hey, you got like, I can’t dedicate more time to this, but
333 00:50:55.580 ⇒ 00:51:16.240 Uttam Kumaran: here and there, if you need anything, let me know I have network up connection. So then it’s more of thinking about like, are the people good? And are they people that will come around eventually? And or will they refer you to someone? Yeah. So that’s the other thing. It’s where I’m also trying to figure out all these people I’ve worked with. They’re really well. How do I give them? How do I get them to be like Monet? How do they get them to
334 00:51:16.740 ⇒ 00:51:20.880 Uttam Kumaran: almost compensate me in that. That’s some that’s like a another thing. I
335 00:51:21.040 ⇒ 00:51:22.490 I haven’t figured I was like
336 00:51:23.110 ⇒ 00:51:27.080 Uttam Kumaran: even the 2, the 2 folks that I’m working with now. They’re mad, connected
337 00:51:27.440 ⇒ 00:51:34.379 Uttam Kumaran: like super duper connected and like in like on the east coast. And I’m like fuck. How do I even tap into their thing.
338 00:51:35.430 ⇒ 00:51:44.089 ivana saginova: You can literally ask like you can say. And like the I did this, and I sent the Christmas Gift people. But you can say it even in a text, and whatever, and feel like, Hey, like.
339 00:51:44.400 ⇒ 00:52:02.429 ivana saginova: thank you for working with me like I’m growing my business. They don’t need to know what that means, right? They don’t need to know that you have 100 clients or 2 clients. But you’re saying like, Hey, I’m growing my business like, I’m looking to expand right now. Like, is there anyone you know that could benefit from my services? Could you connect me? Yeah, yeah, that’s it.
340 00:52:03.280 ⇒ 00:52:04.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
341 00:52:04.140 ⇒ 00:52:26.979 ivana saginova: they can say no, but they probably won’t, and they’ll be like, Okay, cool. I’ll keep you in mind. And you can say, Here’s this, you know, one pager, you know, have that. Say that they’ll respond, say something, and you’d be like, here’s this like, if anyone comes to mind, like, if you wanna share this with them, or just like, have them email me, whatever it is, but just like, make it easier for them in that way. But don’t be afraid to ask, because it’s like
342 00:52:26.980 ⇒ 00:52:51.580 ivana saginova: we’re working with them for them whatever. Who cares you a text to find and be like yo, you know, anyone selling accounts, and like II think you can do referrals right? 1,000 you can also include in your next offer. Say, your rate is, you know, 30 higher than it is, and say, like, Okay, like.
343 00:52:51.690 ⇒ 00:53:16.170 ivana saginova: here’s the discounted rate. Also, if you can get me one more client like great. Here’s this, but be more serious. I did that for names. The girl that has a shitty investor deck that pays me $40 an hour. She’s like, Oh, my God. Yeah, people always ask me who I work with, and I’m like, I haven’t heard shit from you, girl like you need to pay me more. You have to make sure it’s like solidified because most other people haven’t been good. But she’s the one where I was just like.
344 00:53:16.180 ⇒ 00:53:32.290 ivana saginova: Yeah.
345 00:53:32.590 ⇒ 00:53:33.860 we’re growing.
346 00:53:34.090 ⇒ 00:53:48.199 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to like, yeah. And so send this to. However, you need, and then do that with text. Right? Because, again, lowering the barriers for them to be like, okay, my friend, runs this company texting the thing. Yo, you need data shit like, here’s this guy wonders for us.
347 00:53:48.370 ⇒ 00:53:52.410 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like that’d be fucking sick. So
348 00:53:54.960 ⇒ 00:53:56.750 Uttam Kumaran: okay, cool talk
349 00:53:56.770 ⇒ 00:54:03.649 ivana saginova: always. Alright. Have a great weekend, bye.