Meeting Title: Uttam <> Neil Date: 2023-12-20 Meeting participants: Neil Oliver, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:42.650 ⇒ 00:00:47.700 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude, give me 1 one sec. I’m just getting back to my computer. Sounds good.
2 00:00:50.610 ⇒ 00:00:53.260 So dark in my room all of a sudden.
3 00:00:55.090 ⇒ 00:00:56.700 Uttam Kumaran: Just gone down there.
4 00:00:59.960 ⇒ 00:01:01.100 How’s it going?
5 00:01:01.250 ⇒ 00:01:02.569 Neil Oliver: Yeah, not too bad.
6 00:01:02.870 ⇒ 00:01:05.760 Neil Oliver: Not too bad. Dude. Just like week.
7 00:01:05.940 ⇒ 00:01:08.540 Neil Oliver: But yeah, just
8 00:01:08.720 ⇒ 00:01:09.909 Neil Oliver: kind of balance
9 00:01:10.140 ⇒ 00:01:24.350 Neil Oliver: like data culture stuff. Trying to get this past gone for signal, which is just the most open ended thing. And
10 00:01:24.380 ⇒ 00:01:31.020 Neil Oliver: yeah, it is. But it’s like. I don’t know, like I, at the minute I’m just writing like my
11 00:01:31.250 ⇒ 00:01:57.740 Neil Oliver: I get, I like, I sometimes I get lost in going. Okay, like, how do I want to structure this, and I’ll sit for ages and try and think about it. And the other approach is just go. Well, if I just start writing, and I can just get a load of stuff down, and then I can go back and go right. How do I actually start to this? And what do I get rid of and anything else. So it’s a longer process. But it it keeps me going, at least, so I literally have like 7 pages of stuff for the minute.
12 00:01:57.840 ⇒ 00:02:01.269 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, it’s a bit wild.
13 00:02:01.300 ⇒ 00:02:04.420 Neil Oliver: but really annoyed at them like I messaged.
14 00:02:04.580 ⇒ 00:02:19.290 Neil Oliver: I message it like Thursday last week, so I hadn’t heard from them in like a week after the call. And I was like, you know would love. They know that I’m working. I was like would love to be able to do this over the weekend. Nothing. And then, like one am Monday morning.
15 00:02:19.470 ⇒ 00:02:27.450 Neil Oliver: I get like, can you get this done by Friday. It’s like, yeah, we’d work in the last day, you know, last week
16 00:02:28.630 ⇒ 00:02:32.739 Neil Oliver: that was literally my last email was like, I’d love to have the weekend at work on this
17 00:02:33.610 ⇒ 00:02:39.939 Neil Oliver: frustrating half of me is tempted to like still email and go. You’re not going to do anything with this over Christmas.
18 00:02:40.400 ⇒ 00:02:52.540 Uttam Kumaran: Can I get some more time. Do just shoot it. I don’t, I think, like I think you’ll do fine, just like get it over with. Put your all into it and get the fucking job. Dude. It’s like, you know.
19 00:02:52.820 ⇒ 00:03:03.379 Neil Oliver: I really like, I really hope I get it. Really hope I get it like it would. I would love the job.
20 00:03:03.390 ⇒ 00:03:10.390 Neil Oliver: I really love. The fact that, like the guy I’d be reporting to is is a proper like veteran in the space
21 00:03:10.660 ⇒ 00:03:21.600 Neil Oliver: like he was 8 years. Oh, descendants, you, didn’t I? Yeah, like 8 years. That look like really knows. Yeah, that guy’s a really good guy. Dude. I I really remember him. Yeah, II like, know exactly what that guy is.
22 00:03:21.920 ⇒ 00:03:26.010 Neil Oliver: And his his like, literally, his first words when we had the chat, was
23 00:03:26.040 ⇒ 00:03:32.040 Neil Oliver: basically alluded to. He was like, You’re not product manager, he was like. And I’ve been like places
24 00:03:32.060 ⇒ 00:03:50.539 Neil Oliver: where you know you thrown into the deep end. And there’s not the level of support there is. That’s not the case here. It was like, we have this structure for somebody to be able to like. Come in and learn this and be supported. I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s hard dude. I don’t think it’s hard to be a Pm. It’s hard to be a Pm. And everything else like I wasn’t a Pm.
25 00:03:50.550 ⇒ 00:03:59.710 Uttam Kumaran: I was an engineer, and it like it’s primarily like a communication game. And then it’s like a creativity game like you wanna go and look at products and like, think about.
26 00:04:00.000 ⇒ 00:04:09.060 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s a great. It’s the best like. If you’re good, then it’s like. it’s like being able to build products without doing any of the work is like the best feeling.
27 00:04:09.190 ⇒ 00:04:19.560 Neil Oliver: Yeah, I was really, really happy as well, so basically pitched. I didn’t mean to like pitch it on the call, but was talking to about this like, I guess idea that I’ve got
28 00:04:19.680 ⇒ 00:04:39.880 Neil Oliver: And he was like th. This is awesome. He was like, I’ve never had anybody like describe it in that way and be so successful. II said. I think the thing that is missing, particularly visualizations in the It tools is, none of them have a way that you can easily annotate
29 00:04:39.880 ⇒ 00:04:58.749 Neil Oliver: and call out what the actual like insight I was like. It’s like, I said, everybody within the data spaces talk about the semantic layer. I was like, this is the context layer for me, like it is, is being able to like, actually like talk to people about. Why, there might be an anomaly. What happened there and be able to pull things out within that
30 00:04:58.750 ⇒ 00:05:14.989 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, he seems to really like that. So that’s good. Yeah. I mean, I agree. II send people short of time. And I’m like the contacts is gonna be me in my email. I guess because I can’t put annotations anywhere or like. What I need to do is like
31 00:05:15.160 ⇒ 00:05:18.799 Uttam Kumaran: export as an image and then do that. But
32 00:05:19.520 ⇒ 00:05:20.480 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
33 00:05:20.590 ⇒ 00:05:36.129 Neil Oliver: yeah, so like, I said, that’s the that’s the big things. My girlfriend’s got Covid. So I’m like the only one with the puppy at the minute. So that’s like a lot of work. I’m trying to Christmas shop. I’m drowning definitely. But
34 00:05:36.250 ⇒ 00:05:38.020 Neil Oliver: yeah.
35 00:05:38.390 ⇒ 00:05:40.980 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I feel similarly, I’ve been like.
36 00:05:41.160 ⇒ 00:05:46.790 Uttam Kumaran: probably like putting in like 12 h days, a good amount of the week this these couple weeks.
37 00:05:47.310 ⇒ 00:05:49.399 Uttam Kumaran: There’s a lot
38 00:05:49.850 ⇒ 00:05:54.289 Uttam Kumaran: but it’s good. There’s like a lot of stuff still cooking.
39 00:05:55.070 ⇒ 00:06:06.060 Uttam Kumaran: I yeah, I mean, you know, you go through the phases with the clients where they’re happy, and they’re unhappy. So just like got through a little bit like an unhappy phase. But they’re not happy.
40 00:06:06.600 ⇒ 00:06:20.719 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, because I’m just like I just dropped the ball like a couple of things like one dashboard they needed for a while was taking a while, and they they weren’t happy with, like some of the data quality. But I was also working on some other priorities for them.
41 00:06:20.780 ⇒ 00:06:28.330 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like making sure, like the CEO wants something, and then the coo wants something else, and like. I just was like doing too much. And then
42 00:06:28.350 ⇒ 00:06:33.599 Uttam Kumaran: also there are many days where I couldn’t do any work for them. I was doing all this business shit.
43 00:06:33.850 ⇒ 00:06:39.959 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like I’m figuring out like I mean. So I brought on a guy who’s doing part time work for me primarily on them.
44 00:06:40.030 ⇒ 00:06:45.480 Uttam Kumaran: He’s onboard, and he’s doing Dvt work for me. and that’s buying me some time.
45 00:06:45.710 ⇒ 00:06:51.900 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m I’ve pretty much today, just like, closed out a lot of those issues.
46 00:06:52.010 ⇒ 00:06:57.490 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m talking to them on Friday. So those guys should extend
47 00:06:57.980 ⇒ 00:07:10.929 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, things are okay. It’s like, I’m just figuring out a lot of the sales side stuff. So some of the stuff I’m working on is like, I’m working on a larger. I’ll just show you really quickly working on like an actual
48 00:07:11.020 ⇒ 00:07:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: work on like an actual like sales deck with like
49 00:07:20.690 ⇒ 00:07:22.210 Uttam Kumaran: a pitch like
50 00:07:22.720 ⇒ 00:07:28.999 Uttam Kumaran: challenges, solutions like, so this will be really good.
51 00:07:29.710 ⇒ 00:07:36.279 Uttam Kumaran: some of this will make it. Some of this won’t I’m also going to the
52 00:07:37.200 ⇒ 00:07:38.690 Uttam Kumaran: by
53 00:07:40.470 ⇒ 00:07:45.030 Uttam Kumaran: sh! I’m also gonna be let me just share my entire screen.
54 00:07:47.300 ⇒ 00:07:53.109 Uttam Kumaran: I’m also gonna be adding.
55 00:07:54.070 ⇒ 00:07:59.019 Uttam Kumaran: I’m also adding, like. this is this stuff is from like 5. Trans. Sorry this is so small.
56 00:07:59.090 ⇒ 00:08:06.859 Uttam Kumaran: But this is like stuff on like data maturity. And then really good, like pretty much everything they put out is like.
57 00:08:07.130 ⇒ 00:08:09.969 Neil Oliver: like, you find a lot of useful stuff in. There’s
58 00:08:10.680 ⇒ 00:08:16.240 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. The 5 trans stuff is all really, really great. And then I’m also gonna do
59 00:08:16.650 ⇒ 00:08:18.549 Uttam Kumaran: like a chart like this.
60 00:08:19.160 ⇒ 00:08:38.069 Uttam Kumaran: which is a little bit more complicated, but like has a ton of stuff. I need to get the Png for this. But yeah, so like putting that together. Ii did previous work with. I did work for a woman who worked at this company called Lrb Group.
61 00:08:38.210 ⇒ 00:08:39.820 I worked with her
62 00:08:40.260 ⇒ 00:08:47.620 Uttam Kumaran: a couple of years ago and she just moved. She’s a recruiter for these guys and they specialize in sap implementations.
63 00:08:47.690 ⇒ 00:08:53.040 Uttam Kumaran: But I told her, I said, Hey, my firm does everything around
64 00:08:53.350 ⇒ 00:08:57.889 Uttam Kumaran: snowflake. And I noticed that you guys don’t really have like a data
65 00:08:58.350 ⇒ 00:08:59.970 Uttam Kumaran: specific practice.
66 00:09:00.310 ⇒ 00:09:08.100 Uttam Kumaran: I would say. I told her like, Hey, my problem today is I don’t have a ton of distribution to an axe to decision makers
67 00:09:08.130 ⇒ 00:09:17.530 Uttam Kumaran: your problem if I had to guess is that you don’t have a lot of technical talent and like establish expertise in data and analytics.
68 00:09:17.620 ⇒ 00:09:31.410 Uttam Kumaran: And I think there’s like, probably an easy win win here, where I can give you a shit ton of labor and access to technology and like my sales connects there, you guys have access to all these like it, directors, and they do pretty senior enterprise level stuff.
69 00:09:31.920 ⇒ 00:09:34.360 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m meeting with them next month.
70 00:09:34.420 ⇒ 00:09:47.789 Uttam Kumaran: The she intro. She like talk. She gave them an intro about me, and they’re really excited to talk, and they’ve done partnerships like this before, so I’m meeting with them next month. And I’m hoping that like, I can give them enough materials and stuff to go kinda sell
71 00:09:48.010 ⇒ 00:09:53.549 Uttam Kumaran: data to their clients. And they’re like, Yeah, we have a lot of sap customers that are already on Snowflake and things like that.
72 00:09:54.200 ⇒ 00:09:56.820 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s another like Sam and Snowflake.
73 00:09:57.520 ⇒ 00:09:59.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, primarily just doing Snowflake.
74 00:10:00.200 ⇒ 00:10:04.349 Neil Oliver: II would say, have Baker in your back pocket
75 00:10:04.380 ⇒ 00:10:33.270 Neil Oliver: the big one that mainly because one there’s like it’s not often that you’re gonna come up against things where there’s a massive difference between the 2. So if you’ve got it like in the sales that for anything, and they’ve already got it in there. Then it shows that you support it. The only where I think about it for implementation is if it’s nonprofit, nonprofit credits. So it works out cheaper. So for that can be really good.
76 00:10:33.540 ⇒ 00:10:35.420 Neil Oliver: And
77 00:10:35.490 ⇒ 00:10:55.680 Neil Oliver: then other times, if if they’re using a lot that’s like, if they’re really, really, everything’s in the Google ecosystem. It just makes sense to to keep them in that, because it means if they’re doing that single sign on, then all that permissioning can be done through that if they need unstructured storage like at Google, Clouds got that
78 00:10:55.830 ⇒ 00:11:00.599 Neil Oliver: like. There’s a whole kind of argument there. But apart from that, if it’s a blank slate
79 00:11:00.700 ⇒ 00:11:04.160 Neil Oliver: I’m pretty much always like, let’s let’s do Snowflake.
80 00:11:05.010 ⇒ 00:11:08.739 Neil Oliver: Yeah, I think it’s I. I think it’s one
81 00:11:08.850 ⇒ 00:11:19.010 Uttam Kumaran: it should. It shouldn’t cost you anything to support that if someone’s like, Oh, what about this? So I’ll probably add that. And then, yeah, I have a couple of leads
82 00:11:20.030 ⇒ 00:11:26.239 Uttam Kumaran: that are just like word of mouth stuff that I have to do. But I finally, I’m like this deck is in a decent place.
83 00:11:26.680 ⇒ 00:11:51.839 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m just pitching those people like pretty straight up. I will. Now that I have a decent back. Yeah, really. Well, for me, I’m like, I don’t. The the deck itself is not gonna have a shit out of content, if anything, the content, even the amount of stuff we have on there textwise is too much.
84 00:11:52.340 ⇒ 00:12:10.780 Uttam Kumaran: But I wanna, I wanna do an agenda. Yeah, I wanna have an artifact that they can take. And I want that behind a behind a URL like wall. So they have to type in their email. It’s like, I have some analytics and then update it. And then also, I wanna have an agenda. And then if there’s anything unique, like.
85 00:12:10.940 ⇒ 00:12:17.160 Uttam Kumaran: I want to create a slide about their business like, Hey, we took a look at your site. Here’s a couple of things that we noticed.
86 00:12:17.510 ⇒ 00:12:22.350 Uttam Kumaran: you know. Like, if I could do like an hour of work before that, then that’s kinda what I would produce.
87 00:12:22.590 ⇒ 00:12:51.829 Neil Oliver: yeah, Gabi are always very good, like I will. I’ll call out where they were good for some stuff. And part of it was just finding, like the loosest connection that they had and making very big thing. Oh, yeah, worked with people in like they’ll go. We’ve worked with people in the healthcare space like it was a hearing Aid Company. That is not, and I learned a lot from them. But I but like this is what just those people do is like you just find any loose connection you have
88 00:12:51.880 ⇒ 00:13:00.619 Uttam Kumaran: to be like, Hey, I’ve done that before. So that’s one thing. And then, yeah, everything is like going through a Crm. Now
89 00:13:00.690 ⇒ 00:13:02.369 Uttam Kumaran: I’m using.
90 00:13:02.530 ⇒ 00:13:04.370 Uttam Kumaran: I’m using pipe drive.
91 00:13:04.390 ⇒ 00:13:07.649 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like hubs kinda like a hubspot. It’s like a cheaper hubspot
92 00:13:07.880 ⇒ 00:13:11.929 Uttam Kumaran: and then do the other thing I’m starting to do is so I got.
93 00:13:12.550 ⇒ 00:13:16.220 Uttam Kumaran: He approved to be a snowflake listing provider.
94 00:13:16.400 ⇒ 00:13:26.390 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m working with an old friend of mine on like a pet project to see whether we can list some stuff there and then.
95 00:13:26.480 ⇒ 00:13:32.420 Uttam Kumaran: like for clients that I need to source external data, for I’m just gonna run it through the listing
96 00:13:32.790 ⇒ 00:13:37.419 Uttam Kumaran: and just try hopefully. See if I can make some money
97 00:13:37.590 ⇒ 00:13:42.999 Uttam Kumaran: building those data listings because it’s actually pretty easy. And you could do all that within snowflake right now.
98 00:13:43.400 ⇒ 00:13:46.660 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, those have been like, yeah.
99 00:13:47.000 ⇒ 00:13:59.160 Neil Oliver: you gonna have to like, I think the only way this one’s gonna work is to find the first client to bring to him. But do you know Mike drotti, sigma?
100 00:13:59.550 ⇒ 00:14:14.469 Neil Oliver: Yeah, like he. So I mean, he’s Vp. Of sales. But he is way bigger than that, like he. He said something in passing the other day. I’ve been working for Sigma since before we have an office.
101 00:14:14.520 ⇒ 00:14:30.419 Uttam Kumaran: He’s probably like he’s the guy that has got me where I am for the interview. You were to get a client, the one Sigma, and reach out to Mike and be like, Hey, Mike, I’ve got this client by way. What’s the best path for me to like? Get through to the right.
102 00:14:30.490 ⇒ 00:14:32.680 Uttam Kumaran: he will immediately be like.
103 00:14:32.970 ⇒ 00:14:41.799 Neil Oliver: oh, oh, didn’t know you were doing this! Oh, cool, Mike! There is no better person in the entire company to be talking to about that.
104 00:14:41.840 ⇒ 00:14:48.360 Neil Oliver: I mean, he wants he wants to make data culture, the
105 00:14:48.510 ⇒ 00:14:54.279 Neil Oliver: the preferred implementer for like, half of the east coast.
106 00:14:54.380 ⇒ 00:14:56.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, which is just not.
107 00:14:56.760 ⇒ 00:15:00.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing. So that’s one. But also II
108 00:15:01.230 ⇒ 00:15:15.259 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been doing like a lot more with stuff with light dash. Yeah, because it’s pretty cheap, and it’s very tightly coupled to Dbt. and that nice thing is, if you work with someone someone like that, they’re so small.
109 00:15:15.380 ⇒ 00:15:20.080 Uttam Kumaran: Then I have a I have a shit ton more leverage than with someone like Sigma.
110 00:15:20.700 ⇒ 00:15:24.139 Neil Oliver: And th. The difference is the
111 00:15:25.230 ⇒ 00:15:26.610 one
112 00:15:27.010 ⇒ 00:15:29.349 Neil Oliver: like, I think. I,
113 00:15:29.910 ⇒ 00:15:39.900 Neil Oliver: what’s our referral, our referral for Sigma is 12 and then minimum, like their platform fee. And everything is like 25.
114 00:15:40.070 ⇒ 00:15:52.719 Uttam Kumaran: These guys are like these guys are like, it’s 600 bucks to have a light dash cloud, which but also again, it’s like, Yeah, it depends on what they want. But even in that dude. I’m not.
115 00:15:52.820 ⇒ 00:15:57.439 Uttam Kumaran: I’m frankly not trying to get into the bi game as much as I can.
116 00:15:57.630 ⇒ 00:16:01.839 Uttam Kumaran: I would. I would prefer for the company to have analysts.
117 00:16:02.050 ⇒ 00:16:07.050 Uttam Kumaran: and we just do all the modeling. Because Bi shows very hard.
118 00:16:07.230 ⇒ 00:16:12.610 Neil Oliver: I don’t know about that. I feel like I feel like the eyes the one way you can
119 00:16:12.640 ⇒ 00:16:22.749 Neil Oliver: contract that out and get like a good person and not
120 00:16:22.870 ⇒ 00:16:28.839 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t feel like it’s just so many hours to build dashboards and stuff. And like, I’m way, more productive
121 00:16:28.910 ⇒ 00:16:48.410 Uttam Kumaran: writing sequel. And like I get so much work done. But no, that that’s what I’m saying like II have a guy right now. That’s he’s doing both. But I’m pushing him to do more of dashboarding, cause it’s fucking so annoying. I hate it. So I click and do ui shit on my!
122 00:16:48.550 ⇒ 00:16:49.760 Uttam Kumaran: This sucks.
123 00:16:49.770 ⇒ 00:17:00.149 Neil Oliver: jumping back to what you said earlier. About your like the the the dip in your clients kinda happiness right now.
124 00:17:00.270 ⇒ 00:17:08.960 Neil Oliver: one huge thing, or I guess I can address just through some experience, both of those issues, one.
125 00:17:09.050 ⇒ 00:17:15.820 Neil Oliver: a hundred percent like have whatever try you notion, what are you using for? Like your
126 00:17:16.390 ⇒ 00:17:42.369 Neil Oliver: okay, we use notion and use the like, the countbound boards, and whatever on that. But the biggest thing that I do particularly my pain. The ask clients, is every task goes on there, and at the beginning of every meeting I pull up and go. Can I just check that? This is the priority that you like that? We’re agreed on these like next 3 priorities, and then when they go?
127 00:17:42.370 ⇒ 00:17:57.230 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no, no, no! Can we switch those on? It’s great. And then, when they complain at some point, they’re like, Well, you know, why have you done that instead of this? It’s like, because you asked us, yeah, maybe it’s good cause on the thing is the client I’m working, or they’re so hands off
128 00:17:57.470 ⇒ 00:18:07.560 Uttam Kumaran: that it’s like, if there’s an issue. I don’t have many opportunities to play defense, because I don’t talk to them that often, like I do most of the stuff to do text or email.
129 00:18:07.880 ⇒ 00:18:30.970 Uttam Kumaran: But on Friday, what I’m gonna do is like, I’m gonna pull up a little bit of like, yeah, you’re right, like some of the organization we’ve done on the project management side and kinda say how we’re organizing it. Everything’s so. I’m running everything in github projects cause I can link right? I can link right to issues years ago. But I was like, it feels like it’s good
130 00:18:30.970 ⇒ 00:18:45.340 Neil Oliver: for everything. Code related. It is wider project related. II feel like it’s gonna fall down. So we’re still sticking with notion. For the moment. I yeah, you’re probably right. Like I
131 00:18:45.700 ⇒ 00:18:49.599 Uttam Kumaran: I’m doing as light project management as I can. So.
132 00:18:49.880 ⇒ 00:18:57.379 Uttam Kumaran: and and I don’t have that many people. So it’s pretty easy for me to get away with, just like using something lightweight. And I want
133 00:18:57.470 ⇒ 00:19:00.369 for anyone that works for me. I want.
134 00:19:00.490 ⇒ 00:19:06.359 Uttam Kumaran: which is going to be primarily engineers or technical talent. I want every single thing tracked
135 00:19:06.560 ⇒ 00:19:12.889 Uttam Kumaran: because I need. I’m gonna use that to manage payments and like like tracking for work. I’m gonna have.
136 00:19:13.260 ⇒ 00:19:17.660 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna have folks like ideally. You close out tasks.
137 00:19:17.970 ⇒ 00:19:28.050 Uttam Kumaran: and then you kind of are able to track a little bit about how much people have closed out, so I can have some validation, some direct line of like what I’m paying towards the work.
138 00:19:28.250 ⇒ 00:19:36.320 Uttam Kumaran: and there’s no and like again, there’s no reason to not track at least that. And then I could at least see all the issues that we close and stuff like that. So
139 00:19:36.350 ⇒ 00:19:44.790 it’s just like I don’t want it. I don’t like. I haven’t done. It’s been a lot of time since I’ve done tickets since like April, and I hate it. But it’s like necessary. So
140 00:19:44.950 ⇒ 00:19:48.230 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like just trying to get my move rhythm of it. So
141 00:19:48.600 ⇒ 00:19:59.889 Neil Oliver: yeah, we’re we’re getting better at that. Honestly, the biggest change. It sounds so silly, and I feel like everybody has made this shift now, just recording every call.
142 00:19:59.930 ⇒ 00:20:05.799 Neil Oliver: but that is, that’s that’s the game changer. There’s not like. I rarely take notes
143 00:20:05.830 ⇒ 00:20:19.879 Neil Oliver: like I am. I’m present in the call I’m recording like I’ve got. We’ve found them, cause it’s free. It gives me the AI summary. It gives me a searchable transcript like.
144 00:20:20.110 ⇒ 00:20:32.189 Uttam Kumaran: don’t need anything else. Yeah, I agree. I’m recording every call. I then share it to other people, or I’ll reference it like I’ll reference it again if I need. I’m like, oh, I talked to this guy 2 months ago.
145 00:20:32.360 ⇒ 00:20:46.449 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s go. I’ll just send you the call. If you need to reference it, you could watch through it, or like has a summary. And yeah, I think that’s an absolute. No Brainer is what I’m trying to do also, now with the Crm, it’s all linked to my email.
146 00:20:46.830 ⇒ 00:20:58.869 Uttam Kumaran: So all the email activities are linked. And it’s nice cause, like, I try to move people through stages, and then I could set follow ups for the future. So that stuff I’m getting a lot better at
147 00:20:59.970 ⇒ 00:21:03.849 Uttam Kumaran: So like it’s, I would say, like on the operational side.
148 00:21:03.940 ⇒ 00:21:17.359 Uttam Kumaran: everything minus like tax, and like accounting, which I’ve totally dropped. The ball on is going really well. I will try.
149 00:21:17.600 ⇒ 00:21:23.659 Neil Oliver: No, it’s not. It’s not that bad. It’s just like I. It’s on the accounting side, like.
150 00:21:23.860 ⇒ 00:21:29.910 Uttam Kumaran: like putting transactions into buckets, managing my payouts, and stuff like that.
151 00:21:30.590 ⇒ 00:21:37.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you, we spoke about that. You were using 0. Yeah.
152 00:21:37.770 ⇒ 00:21:50.200 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I must admit, like II can possibly find out. I think I said to you, we use a phone called Acuity, that do all of us
153 00:21:50.260 ⇒ 00:22:12.549 Neil Oliver: bookkeeping like they. They do everything I keep it. I put the the invoices that I want them to send. I put it in a spreadsheet, and to be fair by the time we put it in the spreadsheet I could probably put it in quick books, but I get a nice central kind of spreadsheet that I can use. They put it all in quick books. They deal with all of our reconciliation, everything else.
154 00:22:12.590 ⇒ 00:22:14.919 Neil Oliver: And II don’t think it’s a lot
155 00:22:15.060 ⇒ 00:22:23.170 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, much for you right now, but I do not think it’s a lot of that to be taken care of because
156 00:22:23.450 ⇒ 00:22:28.469 Uttam Kumaran: that way my Cpa can talk to them, and I don’t need to fucking. Do anything.
157 00:22:28.860 ⇒ 00:22:36.629 Uttam Kumaran: It’s it’s just like I’m begging for the day that I get to push that off. Those are all things like I have on my mind. I’m just kind of like waiting to do
158 00:22:36.670 ⇒ 00:22:38.939 but dude I 5 train and
159 00:22:39.050 ⇒ 00:22:41.379 Uttam Kumaran: 5 trend and
160 00:22:41.760 ⇒ 00:22:45.839 Uttam Kumaran: snowflake. I have the partnership set up for
161 00:22:46.010 ⇒ 00:22:56.979 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna go. I’m going through. And and I’m I’m I’m gonna finish the 5 trans certification. And then I’m gonna go finish the Snowflake certification. And then. like I should have at least 3 people
162 00:22:57.470 ⇒ 00:23:00.959 Uttam Kumaran: reference under my company that will have both of those.
163 00:23:01.340 ⇒ 00:23:13.300 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah. So I’m excited to kind of have that. And then, like, yeah, I mean, I’m still in like I’ve just been talking to so many people, and like everything’s been moving kind of slowly. But
164 00:23:13.510 ⇒ 00:23:21.359 Uttam Kumaran: again it like, if I’m able to sign one more client. Then at least I could say no to some other people, and then really focus on okay, cool. Now, I have some extra.
165 00:23:21.470 ⇒ 00:23:25.330 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll use the money to like speed up some of these marketing things that I’m doing
166 00:23:25.370 ⇒ 00:23:31.940 Uttam Kumaran: and stuff like that. And then next month I’m gonna try and do some a little bit more content with some people that I’ve been talking to.
167 00:23:32.110 ⇒ 00:23:40.450 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, it’s just a little all over the place. It’s getting better.
168 00:23:40.500 ⇒ 00:23:43.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s getting better. III
169 00:23:43.820 ⇒ 00:23:58.559 Uttam Kumaran: I honestly think, like the only role that I would need outside of like outside of engineering is someone to kind of handle a little bit of outbound sales.
170 00:23:59.230 ⇒ 00:24:01.730 Uttam Kumaran: because I would prefer to do engineering work.
171 00:24:01.970 ⇒ 00:24:14.279 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m really good at that. I’m good at that. I get. And then that of the project management is where, like, I’m really good. That’s that’s like, but I don’t know whether. Yeah, I’m gonna be able to get someone part time to do sales or Sdr kind of work.
172 00:24:14.820 ⇒ 00:24:18.250 Neil Oliver: and like, I would say, your world is
173 00:24:18.550 ⇒ 00:24:37.939 Neil Oliver: like as much as, and I really do get it, because, like I love the engineering stuff like the You should be project manager, slash like like engagement manager type of role. And then you’re looking after the business. And then you’ve got yeah. Your engineers
174 00:24:39.010 ⇒ 00:24:41.439 Uttam Kumaran: cause that’s what like.
175 00:24:42.740 ⇒ 00:24:58.029 Neil Oliver: That’s the piece that really matters. Handling that client. The the strategy in the way that you’re going forward like like got checking because you still really are being an engineer on those things like
176 00:24:58.470 ⇒ 00:25:01.679 Uttam Kumaran: you’re just not hands on the code. Yeah.
177 00:25:02.560 ⇒ 00:25:15.709 Neil Oliver: but yeah, I mean the way that you should keep it like, if you have the time to do it. The place to keep your hand on it is you do things like the Pr review through and like, that’s
178 00:25:15.930 ⇒ 00:25:18.599 that is really good until you start to scale.
179 00:25:19.660 ⇒ 00:25:25.370 Yeah and dude. You know, the other thing we’re gonna do is probably next quarter. Have you heard of like terraform?
180 00:25:25.530 ⇒ 00:25:29.229 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ve heard of? Yeah, terraform is like this like
181 00:25:29.390 ⇒ 00:25:41.389 Uttam Kumaran: software where you can set up infrastructure. It’s like infrastructure is code. So I’m gonna I want us to have a terraform scripts for Snowflake and dbt.
182 00:25:41.720 ⇒ 00:25:46.230 Uttam Kumaran: to be able to like, walk into a company and set up
183 00:25:46.370 ⇒ 00:25:48.699 Uttam Kumaran: both of those softwares
184 00:25:48.840 ⇒ 00:25:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: within one day, which is like roles.
185 00:25:52.340 ⇒ 00:25:55.560 Uttam Kumaran: databases the connections.
186 00:25:55.610 ⇒ 00:26:02.930 Uttam Kumaran: and Dbt, our project structure, our credentials. Yeah, I don’t. It’s a fucking absolute waste of time. And
187 00:26:03.090 ⇒ 00:26:08.960 Uttam Kumaran: I want to be able to show the customer like a value immediately.
188 00:26:09.050 ⇒ 00:26:20.070 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s like billing for that seems like ridiculous, like II do, I do, I do it, I bill for it. But this, that setup is. So yeah.
189 00:26:20.090 ⇒ 00:26:22.399 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it’s just like.
190 00:26:22.800 ⇒ 00:26:26.150 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I’m like, that’s just it’s just like, kind of a waste of time. So.
191 00:26:26.240 ⇒ 00:26:30.209 but we’re getting better. I’m like layering and a lot more dbt, stuff.
192 00:26:30.710 ⇒ 00:26:35.230 Uttam Kumaran: so yeah, we like Steve on. Our team is just
193 00:26:35.270 ⇒ 00:26:52.129 Neil Oliver: done so much for Dvt, and bits of that. So we’re running lots through Github actions now. So all of our building like building on Github actions when Pr’s that approved. And
194 00:26:52.210 ⇒ 00:27:04.909 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, that’s exactly what I’m hoping to do is, have we have a lot of stuff running through github actions. So I’m trying to automate that side. But the nice thing is, again, I’m trying to use the same engineering talent that I get for that to start building like some data products like
195 00:27:05.040 ⇒ 00:27:11.849 Uttam Kumaran: trying to build a let like, see if we can get any money through listings. See? There’s other interesting things we can do.
196 00:27:13.830 ⇒ 00:27:17.970 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s tough, but it’s good. Yeah. Right now, yeah, like.
197 00:27:19.380 ⇒ 00:27:41.600 Neil Oliver: you you you building a pop money. Just think about it that way. Like, right now, don’t worry about the the big next step, like, what direction? Right now, do what’s working? Take what you can get like, get it into, get a nice part of money, and then go. Okay, what’s working for us? What’s great? Cause? Then you got money behind you to go. Okay, like, let’s
198 00:27:41.670 ⇒ 00:27:47.280 Uttam Kumaran: whatever else.
199 00:27:48.120 ⇒ 00:28:03.159 Neil Oliver: Yeah, it’s yeah. What about that bottom line that like that. That bank account number for you to be able to go cool. What can we do with now? We’ve got the security. What can we do? Yeah, I would say, the other thing is, the sales through
200 00:28:03.180 ⇒ 00:28:05.449 Uttam Kumaran: applying for the job. Racks
201 00:28:05.560 ⇒ 00:28:08.089 Uttam Kumaran: isn’t working too well.
202 00:28:08.210 ⇒ 00:28:09.630 Uttam Kumaran: So
203 00:28:09.650 ⇒ 00:28:15.889 Neil Oliver: like III wanted to explore that a lot more, but like never really got anywhere.
204 00:28:17.070 ⇒ 00:28:19.649 Neil Oliver: I say that I think it’s very different.
205 00:28:20.380 ⇒ 00:28:41.740 Neil Oliver: I don’t know why, but I feel like it’s different on forums than it would be on. Say, Linkedin, I think, applying for something through like something that was like advertised widely on Linkedin and places like that. I think you’d have no luck applying for something that somebody is posted on the job board of Dvt. I actually think you’ll have a lot of luck like we have got clients that way.
206 00:28:43.030 ⇒ 00:28:44.849 Uttam Kumaran: So you just DM, directly.
207 00:28:45.030 ⇒ 00:28:52.990 Neil Oliver: But yeah. yeah, hey, II think like would love to understand. You know what’s driving you towards the higher
208 00:28:53.220 ⇒ 00:29:01.059 Neil Oliver: and a lot of the time they’re like, Oh, we’ve just got this new thing you’re like, you don’t need a full time hire for that. You need this and get this done.
209 00:29:01.950 ⇒ 00:29:14.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe. I wonder if that should be. Our next thing is like. I can just kind of write a blurb for me and someone else. and just begin firing that off. Yeah, like, with a little deck.
210 00:29:15.000 ⇒ 00:29:18.479 Uttam Kumaran: Have it be worded like in a really conversational way.
211 00:29:19.880 ⇒ 00:29:25.580 Neil Oliver: That’d be fine. By the way, this is, this is not not great.
212 00:29:25.990 ⇒ 00:29:28.350 At all. So I’m really not like
213 00:29:28.740 ⇒ 00:29:34.839 Neil Oliver: kind of posting about it being like, oh, like, have a look at how good this is. I wrote this
214 00:29:35.160 ⇒ 00:29:36.190 Uttam Kumaran: 4.
215 00:29:44.550 ⇒ 00:29:47.629 Neil Oliver: I wrote this because
216 00:29:48.280 ⇒ 00:29:51.700 Uttam Kumaran: I’m going to come up in my head of my.
217 00:29:51.850 ⇒ 00:29:54.219 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah.
218 00:29:54.410 ⇒ 00:29:56.400 Neil Oliver: and the idea.
219 00:29:56.500 ⇒ 00:30:01.900 Uttam Kumaran: why would you hire data consultancy instead of like hiring your own data engineer?
220 00:30:01.940 ⇒ 00:30:08.689 Neil Oliver: And I was like. If if in my position, being on that sales call, I can’t like knock that question on the park
221 00:30:09.530 ⇒ 00:30:18.939 Neil Oliver: like and and properly fully like, argued that and like debate, that II think that’s a bad thing. So I ended up writing this blog post to try and
222 00:30:19.310 ⇒ 00:30:24.789 Neil Oliver: like just this structure, my thoughts would be like, why, you know, why would you?
223 00:30:25.580 ⇒ 00:30:52.589 Neil Oliver: And that’s why I can do the pieces like, Okay, well, that’s great, like a single engineer is gonna be a generalist, and they’re gonna take a year to set that up. Now the insights that they’re gonna be able to provide you means that they’re coming in 12 months time. Yes, we’re gonna be more expensive. But you actually get 3 specialists. So we’re gonna do the amount of time meaning the the old time, that the actual value of unlocking the value in your data is a third of that time, like what is what is like?
224 00:30:52.830 ⇒ 00:31:00.899 Neil Oliver: you know what’s most important to you? Is it? Is it saving money in the short term? Or is it unlocking the the value of your data?
225 00:31:01.770 ⇒ 00:31:08.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And the you know the other thing. II was even thinking about something writing. Something like this is even like, why us versus
226 00:31:09.140 ⇒ 00:31:12.479 Uttam Kumaran: a larger consultancy or something like that, because
227 00:31:12.650 ⇒ 00:31:17.659 Uttam Kumaran: well, the big thing, I tell people is like, this isn’t a business I’m trying to scale to like
228 00:31:17.730 ⇒ 00:31:21.390 Uttam Kumaran: 50 people. So my job is to bring on
229 00:31:21.520 ⇒ 00:31:24.480 Uttam Kumaran: climb so we can. Fucking knock out of the park.
230 00:31:24.860 ⇒ 00:31:38.449 Uttam Kumaran: and that’s my only incentive is to have a couple of those like. I don’t plan on. I’m not. The goal here isn’t to get. I don’t, I can’t. I can’t manage like 100 people. So that’s something I think I could use. That’s that’s something that. But that’s something I can use to my advantage here to be like.
231 00:31:38.960 ⇒ 00:31:47.019 Uttam Kumaran: We’re pretty selective with who we take on and try to like. It’s almost like when you go to like the gym I go to. They’re like, we need people who are actually gonna succeed and like.
232 00:31:47.400 ⇒ 00:32:16.790 Neil Oliver: finish the program and stuff like that. And I actually like, I think I think about that a lot, because I think that’s a good way of like getting people to be like, yeah, okay, that makes sense, like, why go with them versus like Ibm, or go with them instead of like Brooklyn data or something like that. I don’t know. Yeah, II mean, II make sure all the time. But I’m always like how much enjoy tickets, because if you go in a big consultancy. That’s what you’re gonna be a ticket number and when you’ve got an issue with us.
233 00:32:16.930 ⇒ 00:32:26.579 Neil Oliver: meet some, it’s gonna be some that you’re gonna like message on slack and sounds gonna get back to you. And she’s gonna be doing a hands-on with your issue.
234 00:32:26.700 ⇒ 00:32:36.410 Neil Oliver: We have this project management structure, where, you know, we’re utilizing and and making sure that we’re it’s still.
235 00:32:36.860 ⇒ 00:32:49.880 Neil Oliver: you know, abiding by all the reasons why you would use project management software like a son or whatever else. But we’re not gonna expose that to you because we’re small. We’re like.
236 00:32:50.310 ⇒ 00:32:53.789 personable. And it’s going to be like a one on one
237 00:32:53.940 ⇒ 00:33:06.269 Uttam Kumaran: type of relationship. So what is the what is the most common like communication, like frequency between you guys like you guys talk every day to clients? Or what do you find to be like? Successful, like
238 00:33:06.520 ⇒ 00:33:08.800 Uttam Kumaran: like a good expectation is set?
239 00:33:08.940 ⇒ 00:33:11.639 Neil Oliver: Define the
240 00:33:11.670 ⇒ 00:33:38.349 Neil Oliver: If I this might sound silly, but like you need to define clients, so client is the logo. Then probably every day there’s gonna be. There’s gonna be somebody from the company question, or probably only one or 2, but this probably something, the actual client, the person that I’m presenting to once a week. I’m probably speaking to that once a week. You know that. Yeah.
241 00:33:38.350 ⇒ 00:33:42.820 Uttam Kumaran: And do you do that all through slack?
242 00:33:42.820 ⇒ 00:34:01.569 Neil Oliver: Yeah, I mean, we. We’ve got one that we got a larger client. But once through teams we’ve got one that is like we did set them up in slack, but they don’t use slack for anything else, so they would never get back for them. But typically slack.
243 00:34:01.690 ⇒ 00:34:04.610 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, very well, okay.
244 00:34:04.870 ⇒ 00:34:07.569 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. That’s what I need to. So that’s also what I have.
245 00:34:07.730 ⇒ 00:34:11.570 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, I have slack for most people.
246 00:34:11.940 ⇒ 00:34:14.940 Neil Oliver: yeah.
247 00:34:15.840 ⇒ 00:34:17.299 Neil Oliver: Sounds like you’re crushing it.
248 00:34:18.980 ⇒ 00:34:20.210 Trying. Man.
249 00:34:21.400 ⇒ 00:34:24.039 Uttam Kumaran: It’s good. I feel good. It’s like I
250 00:34:24.090 ⇒ 00:34:38.010 Uttam Kumaran: here, what the problem is. Again. If the client doesn’t like, then I get like alarm bells. But I know what II know what I fuck up on. So it’s really obvious to me like, what? But then, I mean, I’m like cool. I told him, okay, I’m not gonna bill you. For a week. I’m gonna fix all these problems and
251 00:34:38.020 ⇒ 00:34:43.080 Uttam Kumaran: try to buy some goodwill like, because I’m like, look, some of these are bug fixes. Some of these are on me.
252 00:34:43.210 ⇒ 00:34:49.200 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna say, hey? Like, I’m not gonna bill you for the time that I’m like spending getting through this.
253 00:34:49.480 ⇒ 00:34:57.259 Uttam Kumaran: That’s that’ll buy me goodwill for you guys to renew your contract. I just want you guys to do right. And it’s actually I’m able to do that because it’s
254 00:34:57.600 ⇒ 00:35:07.849 Uttam Kumaran: my expenses like I could manage it right now. But I also, I’m learning a lot through the process, and like, it’s hard for me to put that learning about running the business and stuff on the client, because, like part of that is
255 00:35:08.050 ⇒ 00:35:16.440 Uttam Kumaran: what these early clients are kind of like allowing me to do. So. Just also also also show them like when there’s issues.
256 00:35:16.630 ⇒ 00:35:43.329 Neil Oliver: Show them. So be like, oh, like you know the the idea of being like, oh, we’ve got the dashboard. But the days is in Qatar like that sounds like bullshit like you haven’t done it. But if you actually like, can show them something new like this like we can send about this number here. From what we’re seeing before you’ve told us, this doesn’t seem to be accurate. So we’re investigating that like, it’s a whole different thing. When people see it.
257 00:35:43.520 ⇒ 00:35:55.829 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. so that’s why I’m gonna have to. I I have to think for this client, especially what what I can show them on Friday, because they just because they’re so far above the tech stack.
258 00:35:55.980 ⇒ 00:36:00.969 Uttam Kumaran: They don’t tell how much complicated it is to do the Dbt stuff, which is fine same time.
259 00:36:01.050 ⇒ 00:36:15.590 Uttam Kumaran: The speed at which I could not answer their questions is like crazy like I’m answering questions within like the hour. Good good example of that you are totally right like, don’t don’t show them code. Then they’re not gonna yeah. But
260 00:36:15.840 ⇒ 00:36:29.889 Neil Oliver: you can overwhelm them in a good way with complexity. So what you can do is pull up a complex dag on the screen, and they’re like holy. What? And it doesn’t matter that they don’t understand it. They understand the scale of what’s going on behind the scenes.
261 00:36:30.060 ⇒ 00:36:33.920 Neil Oliver: And so then they start going. Okay, cool? Got it?
262 00:36:33.940 ⇒ 00:36:35.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
263 00:36:35.500 ⇒ 00:36:38.810 Neil Oliver: So there’s some stuff that they can like
264 00:36:38.830 ⇒ 00:36:55.349 Neil Oliver: can understand that it’s good, like, I just took a Cfo through looking at the actual raw data from quick books that 5 track provides, and it annoyingly. It when it comes out of 5 tr. When it comes out quick books, it’s Json objects.
265 00:36:55.480 ⇒ 00:37:00.179 Neil Oliver: It’s like one column of just a huge Json object.
266 00:37:00.420 ⇒ 00:37:16.499 Neil Oliver: and we were like, how would you? How would you use this in a spreadsheet? Because he’s used to spreadsheet, and he’s like and like cool with the process. The first thing that we’ve got to do is we have to unpack all of that. And then we showed him like what it ended up. And then he starts understanding what we’ve done and why
267 00:37:16.790 ⇒ 00:37:23.560 Neil Oliver: and trust, they start going cool. Why, I understand that this is really fucking complicated. And
268 00:37:24.540 ⇒ 00:37:41.489 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s tough. So that’s that’s what I’m gonna try to do is like, kinda show them a little bit. You’re I think I wanna do. I do wanna show them a little bit of how I’m tracking tasks and how that’s all linked to code. I think they’ll be interested to see that, and they’ll make it seem like, okay, there’s an actual operation here.
269 00:37:41.520 ⇒ 00:37:43.480 Neil Oliver: have they got anyone technical on that?
270 00:37:45.660 ⇒ 00:37:46.530 Neil Oliver: Okay?
271 00:37:46.650 ⇒ 00:37:50.360 I mean, it’s absolutely it’s good and bad. It’s really nice, because
272 00:37:50.460 ⇒ 00:38:02.779 Uttam Kumaran: nobody’s watching over it. But it’s really tough, because there’s no empathy for mistakes. Which is fine. I just need to be.
273 00:38:03.330 ⇒ 00:38:05.359 Uttam Kumaran: I need to really deliver
274 00:38:05.760 ⇒ 00:38:36.620 Uttam Kumaran: But again, II mean, like the thing is, I’m always confident is like the technical ability we have. So I don’t worry about solving the problem. It’s just a matter of time. And it’s like, okay, if there’s data issues, okay, I have to go through the whole cycle like going all the way to source and like finding issues. So that’s why I onboarded one person so he can handle a lot of the bullshit. As there’s more complicated things like normalization or like standardization. Or I’m like, I’ll take that on. And I’ll yeah.
275 00:38:36.890 ⇒ 00:38:49.489 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s nice, because they’re like they’re like, they don’t wanna have meetings really just text us, we’ll figure it out, which is great. But at the same time, I’m like. I wanna know what’s actually on you guys in mind or like, you guys haven’t been opening dashboards like, what’s the problem like, what’s
276 00:38:49.660 ⇒ 00:38:59.050 Neil Oliver: oh, just wanted me. That was the biggest one that I was. Gonna say that like out of if somebody was like, what is one? Honestly, I think this is the biggest thing I’ve ever learned.
277 00:38:59.150 ⇒ 00:39:11.069 Neil Oliver: And I’ve probably said it to you before. If you have not seen your clients on their screen, whatever it is you are trying to show them they’ve never seen. It doesn’t matter if you 8 calls
278 00:39:11.130 ⇒ 00:39:25.479 Neil Oliver: like, and I have a perfect example. Avenue one big, big client, one of the first clients I worked with. We were, say, 3 and a half months into a snowflake implementation.
279 00:39:25.560 ⇒ 00:39:38.190 Neil Oliver: loads of data sources and modeling and everything else. And I was troubleshooting something with the like Vp of engineering. And I was like, Oh, if you just log into the snowflake. And he went hungry. That
280 00:39:40.660 ⇒ 00:39:41.510 Uttam Kumaran: yeah.
281 00:39:41.750 ⇒ 00:39:47.840 Neil Oliver: cool, cool, cool, cool. Okay. But see, in that moment it’s like fuck. Did I make a mistake of not
282 00:39:48.530 ⇒ 00:40:01.589 Uttam Kumaran: communicating with them? Did I like what II don’t know. Cause yeah, it’s tough like. But so the way I got around is, I have an email to them. And I’m like, even if they don’t log in. At least they get a Pdf, they’re seeing something.
283 00:40:01.840 ⇒ 00:40:08.360 Uttam Kumaran: Just the problem is at that. At that point. If they’re getting them. There’s mistakes then, but it’s like that’s the thing is just like, yeah, put them in the driver’s seat.
284 00:40:08.590 ⇒ 00:40:17.169 Neil Oliver: Yeah, you’re right. That’s that’s what I’m going to do on Friday is like, I’m gonna say, you guys, can you guys pull it up? And then we’re going to walk through it on your end.
285 00:40:17.350 ⇒ 00:40:27.770 Neil Oliver: You also learn so much because they they go. Oh, like I’m logged in. But like, where do I go for this? Or you see them do weird things with the filtering? And you’re like, why, why would you do that? You can? Idiot.
286 00:40:28.220 ⇒ 00:40:30.910 Yeah. Yeah. So that’s what I’m like.
287 00:40:32.450 ⇒ 00:40:35.439 yeah, that’s exactly what I’m gonna try and figure out.
288 00:40:35.500 ⇒ 00:40:39.420 Neil Oliver: But like, I say, I’m I’m super excited. If you dude.
289 00:40:40.950 ⇒ 00:40:46.730 Neil Oliver: I might possibly be starting something.
290 00:40:47.050 ⇒ 00:40:49.149 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, like.
291 00:40:49.250 ⇒ 00:40:52.639 Neil Oliver: I say, starting something, basically.
292 00:40:52.830 ⇒ 00:40:59.110 Neil Oliver: data culture doesn’t provide anything to
293 00:40:59.460 ⇒ 00:41:04.469 Neil Oliver: like the the studio. So that database stuff. The only thing
294 00:41:05.370 ⇒ 00:41:12.700 Uttam Kumaran: like the studio is Marissa, basically. And then there’s like the knowledge of how to run a business.
295 00:41:12.790 ⇒ 00:41:20.139 Neil Oliver: but I mean that part’s not rocket science, and you need some capital to be able to start something up. But if Marissa was to leave.
296 00:41:20.770 ⇒ 00:41:32.330 Neil Oliver: There is no studio, there’s no nobody knows how to do it. There’s nobody else skilled enough. Nobody knows how the projects run, what the process is. We don’t even know what the pricing is.
297 00:41:32.490 ⇒ 00:41:43.120 Neil Oliver: And there isn’t some big like pipeline or anything like that. So the studio is Marissa and Marisa does not want to work for data culture without me.
298 00:41:43.570 ⇒ 00:41:50.469 Neil Oliver: I’ve got some savings. I also know how to like run a business, and while I can’t work for the business.
299 00:41:50.840 ⇒ 00:41:54.669 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I can own part of the business. What does that mean?
300 00:41:55.010 ⇒ 00:42:04.610 Neil Oliver: It’s really annoying basic like it. That really means what it means. I can own a business on paper, but I can’t work for it. But then, can you get the proceeds?
301 00:42:05.420 ⇒ 00:42:06.400 Neil Oliver: Yes.
302 00:42:06.770 ⇒ 00:42:08.530 Uttam Kumaran: but then it’s but it’s income
303 00:42:08.910 ⇒ 00:42:13.520 Neil Oliver: I can. I can. I can have income which can’t work for it. I can have passive income from it.
304 00:42:14.250 ⇒ 00:42:21.419 Neil Oliver: I can’t work any hours. I can’t hold a title. I can’t hold anything other than
305 00:42:21.940 ⇒ 00:42:34.809 Uttam Kumaran: so it will be. I can be on the board of directors, and then my involvement will effectively be behind the scenes of just
306 00:42:34.870 ⇒ 00:43:03.159 Neil Oliver: there’s well, I would probably do that with with Marissa. My involvement. Really, it’s it’s effectively going to be Marissa, like starting a company just on paper. I’ll be providing some seed capital, and I’ll actually help out with like, how do you do the books? How to do the legal, how to do the contract thing, and I’ll be doing that unofficially behind the scenes until, like, if we grow it, I can look at moving over. There are ways that I can.
307 00:43:03.190 ⇒ 00:43:07.720 Neil Oliver: So I can work for the company. But it comes very, very, very difficult.
308 00:43:08.810 ⇒ 00:43:13.219 Uttam Kumaran: It’s become like, really, weirdly complicated. Is there a minimum
309 00:43:13.570 ⇒ 00:43:18.059 Uttam Kumaran: before it becomes complicated like, or is that if you get any employment income.
310 00:43:18.700 ⇒ 00:43:26.719 Neil Oliver: basically any like, if if I’m to work there, I have to get an to work there.
311 00:43:27.610 ⇒ 00:43:36.450 Neil Oliver: So I have to transfer either transfer my current visa or second visa. Believe it or not, you can actually have 2 visas, 2 of the same
312 00:43:36.640 ⇒ 00:43:39.079 Neil Oliver: which is just the most impossible task.
313 00:43:39.180 ⇒ 00:43:54.400 Neil Oliver: Because you have to be able to claim that that business is not been set up to provide you a visa. So if it’s just Marisa and me, there’s no way you can make that argument that it wasn’t set up to provide me a visa.
314 00:43:54.430 ⇒ 00:43:56.830 You ever think about doing this in Uk.
315 00:43:57.770 ⇒ 00:43:58.920 Neil Oliver: It would mean going home.
316 00:44:00.630 ⇒ 00:44:03.580 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not doing that. Yeah, that makes sense.
317 00:44:04.240 ⇒ 00:44:11.500 Neil Oliver: But so the idea is work at Sigma. and then start this.
318 00:44:11.700 ⇒ 00:44:16.809 Neil Oliver: Probably try and fill this with behind the scenes and see where it goes.
319 00:44:17.680 ⇒ 00:44:34.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude that’d be sick. I don’t. II think it’s like that’s a task that’s so hard to do database shit. But even in my company, like fuck, I should have just came to, I mean, I guess II probably wouldn’t come to you guys, but I would have came to your new firm for some database stuff that one client asked me for
320 00:44:34.610 ⇒ 00:44:47.149 Uttam Kumaran: they have a lot of what. Yeah, I don’t even know. What is it? Just for, like a
321 00:44:47.230 ⇒ 00:44:50.119 Uttam Kumaran: story, or like, What is it. What is it
322 00:44:50.230 ⇒ 00:44:51.809 Neil Oliver: you? I mean, you did.
323 00:44:52.390 ⇒ 00:44:53.420 Okay?
324 00:44:53.500 ⇒ 00:44:56.139 Neil Oliver: Last 2 projects. One, we took cheap.
325 00:44:56.190 ⇒ 00:45:02.520 Neil Oliver: One is slightly over. So last 2, one was a 50,001 to 30,000
326 00:45:02.550 ⇒ 00:45:14.219 Neil Oliver: and the 30,000 to 2 month. Project the 30,000 a the 50,000 to 3 months project. And roughly, and we’re running those at the same time.
327 00:45:14.380 ⇒ 00:45:15.260 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
328 00:45:15.960 ⇒ 00:45:22.060 Uttam Kumaran: wow, yeah. But then, again, what’s the output? The output is like notebooks. The output is like animation
329 00:45:22.180 ⇒ 00:45:28.560 Neil Oliver: that plays the whole website. And I’ve seen the website. Okay, okay, okay, okay, great. Okay. Okay. Great. Yeah. Hang on. Let’s
330 00:45:29.400 ⇒ 00:45:30.900 Neil Oliver: let me give you
331 00:45:32.410 ⇒ 00:45:37.549 Neil Oliver: what’s what’s a fun one. I remember the one you guys presented.
332 00:45:38.680 ⇒ 00:45:46.960 Neil Oliver: Oh, yeah. So you you will have seen you’d have seen that the 2 new ones that were working on a fucking sick. But
333 00:45:47.290 ⇒ 00:45:54.149 Uttam Kumaran: they blow all of the other stuff out of the water, even if I can just have it. A copy of that example that’d be dope.
334 00:45:54.970 ⇒ 00:46:01.070 Neil Oliver: Well, there’s right. Hang on, you know. I don’t know if you’ve ever explored the studio site.
335 00:46:01.560 ⇒ 00:46:08.979 Neil Oliver: so we designed and built for the studio site, which has got some fun stuff on, and let me find you
336 00:46:09.320 ⇒ 00:46:10.500 Neil Oliver: cow cow.
337 00:46:14.620 ⇒ 00:46:16.510 Neil Oliver: What has gone wrong here?
338 00:46:18.400 ⇒ 00:46:20.339 Neil Oliver: Did they take away the data.
339 00:46:22.280 ⇒ 00:46:30.610 Neil Oliver: They must. Oh, wait! Actually, no, I remember this. Do you want to try and just share your screen? Pull this up?
340 00:46:31.940 ⇒ 00:46:35.670 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I see it. I have it open. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember this.
341 00:46:36.210 ⇒ 00:46:42.940 Neil Oliver: So this is like, this is an example of like,
342 00:46:43.080 ⇒ 00:46:48.830 Neil Oliver: Marisa. And I start this, we will expand beyond this, and we’ll probably do the I work as well.
343 00:46:50.410 ⇒ 00:47:07.450 Neil Oliver: because that there isn’t enough. It’s going to be very difficult to sustain projects, at least for the first year, until you start making a name. So you know what you should do. You should next year, when everybody starts coming out with their wrapped.
344 00:47:07.510 ⇒ 00:47:09.789 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, every product now is doing that.
345 00:47:09.950 ⇒ 00:47:17.290 Uttam Kumaran: Y’all should just be like, if you does, your product need a stupid wrapped, we’ll do it for you like.
346 00:47:17.390 ⇒ 00:47:20.890 Neil Oliver: Yeah, let me show you hang on let me find.
347 00:47:22.230 ⇒ 00:47:24.450 Uttam Kumaran: And they a lot of look so bad
348 00:47:26.470 ⇒ 00:47:31.069 Neil Oliver: like, check this one. The site is really good. I mean, the site is beautiful, but
349 00:47:31.170 ⇒ 00:47:35.359 Neil Oliver: I mean the like. I say, they’re old ones. Now
350 00:47:38.430 ⇒ 00:47:40.720 Neil Oliver: let me find the
351 00:47:44.950 ⇒ 00:47:48.149 Neil Oliver: project data home. Here we go
352 00:47:50.830 ⇒ 00:47:52.180 Neil Oliver: channel screen.
353 00:48:02.070 ⇒ 00:48:02.930 Hmm!
354 00:48:06.270 ⇒ 00:48:11.890 Neil Oliver: I mean, like this. This is why, why, why the assets not loading?
355 00:48:12.900 ⇒ 00:48:15.559 What do I do now? The loading? This is like the
356 00:48:16.310 ⇒ 00:48:18.320 Uttam Kumaran: one that we’re working on.
357 00:48:18.810 ⇒ 00:48:20.320 There’s there’s
358 00:48:20.500 ⇒ 00:48:21.969 Neil Oliver: white, can’t I do?
359 00:48:23.260 ⇒ 00:48:24.940 Neil Oliver: Where’s the
360 00:48:28.170 ⇒ 00:48:30.169 Neil Oliver: I don’t know if the present works or not?
361 00:48:38.900 ⇒ 00:48:50.979 Neil Oliver: yeah, that’s there’s gonna be some cool, different visuals on here. So all of this will be like animated and interactive.
362 00:48:53.020 ⇒ 00:48:55.200 Neil Oliver: Same here like, you know, a little
363 00:48:56.330 ⇒ 00:49:03.700 Neil Oliver: light up, and whatever else. But there’s there’s gonna be so much in here. Great. Yeah, yeah, no. This is it dude like, I mean, I’m telling you like
364 00:49:04.040 ⇒ 00:49:11.039 Uttam Kumaran: seeing this here, every product try to do their own could be cool. To be like, you, you guys need your own. One of these like, you can do.
365 00:49:11.400 ⇒ 00:49:13.359 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, this looks great.
366 00:49:13.530 ⇒ 00:49:16.230 Neil Oliver: Yeah, there’s like, I say, there’s so much in this
367 00:49:16.540 ⇒ 00:49:21.769 Neil Oliver: and the other ones. The the other project that we’re working on is equally cool, but
368 00:49:22.180 ⇒ 00:49:23.870 Neil Oliver: like I say, it’s like
369 00:49:24.480 ⇒ 00:49:46.429 Neil Oliver: that’s nice to you should do it, I mean, and and then guess what? If you’re at Sigma and you’re running it. Then it’s just a side thing. So don’t worry about it. But it’s even great. Because you guys can. Yeah, I mean, if there’s part of component. That can be sigma, and then just make sure, when you sign the Sigma deal, that there’s not like any like weird non compete stuff.
370 00:49:46.620 ⇒ 00:49:48.410 Neil Oliver: Yeah, yeah, like the bar.
371 00:49:49.640 ⇒ 00:50:00.640 Neil Oliver: But yeah, II I’m going to run that in the same way that I thought Gaby and Leah intended to run
372 00:50:00.800 ⇒ 00:50:16.130 Neil Oliver: data culture when they started pre cool, which was, I’m gonna view as an asset that’s growing. I’m not gonna love to take any salary or bonus or any money out of it at all. It’s just gonna be something that is growing in the I own, and the benefit of it is that I end up
373 00:50:16.160 ⇒ 00:50:21.769 Neil Oliver: having an ownership in, you know, a company that is worth money if you would sell it.
374 00:50:22.530 ⇒ 00:50:26.690 Neil Oliver: Gabriel, take a lot of money out of data culture.
375 00:50:27.030 ⇒ 00:50:34.180 Neil Oliver: I. Actually, I actually went back and looked and it was it was them that, like.