Meeting Title: Uttam <> Brittany Date: 2023-12-07 Meeting participants: Brittany Bond, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:20.830 ⇒ 00:00:21.930 Brittany Bond: Hi, there!
2 00:00:22.190 ⇒ 00:00:23.370 Uttam Kumaran: Hey! How’s it going?
3 00:00:23.640 ⇒ 00:00:25.359 Brittany Bond: Good! Give me 1 s. Sorry.
4 00:00:25.520 ⇒ 00:00:28.589 Brittany Bond: How are you?
5 00:00:28.640 ⇒ 00:00:37.830 Brittany Bond: Happy? Thursday? Yeah. Happy. Thursday. How’s the week? Then? Good every day is a Saturday. So for me. So
6 00:00:38.240 ⇒ 00:00:40.850 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I feel like every day for me is like a Monday.
7 00:00:41.360 ⇒ 00:00:54.139 Brittany Bond: I guess when you’re self employed, that’s basically it. It is. Yeah, has been kind of odd. But it’s been good. It’s it’s all been like interesting puzzles.
8 00:00:54.420 ⇒ 00:00:55.619 yeah, so
9 00:00:56.140 ⇒ 00:01:01.150 Brittany Bond: awesome. How long have you been doing what you’re doing? Like your current?
10 00:01:01.180 ⇒ 00:01:03.999 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, since April?
11 00:01:04.310 ⇒ 00:01:19.549 Uttam Kumaran: I would say more formally since, like July. But in April I was leading product at a startup before this. They’re based in New York, and it was about like 10 or 11 employees. And then I decided to leave, and then.
12 00:01:20.040 ⇒ 00:01:26.049 Uttam Kumaran: like for me, the options were either like, Go back to another startup, which it would have been like my fourth.
13 00:01:26.090 ⇒ 00:01:40.270 Uttam Kumaran: And like I, it’s just like kind of like life sucking. I mean you. You were involved in one. So you know, I was involved in 3 kind of chaotic ones, and then I was like, Okay, or the option is like, Go to like a bigger company
14 00:01:40.310 ⇒ 00:01:48.290 Uttam Kumaran: where it’s like you go. I sit as like an engineer for like an hour and work it for an hour a day. And like, yeah, the money’s really good. But
15 00:01:49.330 ⇒ 00:02:03.740 Uttam Kumaran: I just can’t handle that mentally, like I would start doing other work, I would start doing other stuff on the side frankly. And then I was like, Okay, this is probably like the cleanest opportunity for me to go just like, find ways to work directly for clients and help them in any way possible. Whether it’s
16 00:02:03.860 ⇒ 00:02:07.820 Uttam Kumaran: data, analytics and data engineering, which is like where I’m really skilled at
17 00:02:07.870 ⇒ 00:02:19.629 Uttam Kumaran: and also find ways to kind of work on AI projects. And then, just like, take whatever savings I have, and just like float the business as far as I can until I could get some clients. And that’s kind of like what happened. So
18 00:02:19.770 ⇒ 00:02:22.110 Brittany Bond: how? That’s pretty cool.
19 00:02:22.310 ⇒ 00:02:26.160 Uttam Kumaran: Do you mind me asking how old you are? I am 27.
20 00:02:26.170 ⇒ 00:02:39.769 Brittany Bond: Okay, wow! Good for you. You’ve done a lot in a short amount of time. I appreciate. I think I credit a lot of that to New York.
21 00:02:40.070 ⇒ 00:02:46.170 Uttam Kumaran: I think the one thing is, a lot of people go into startups, and after we work it totally broke
22 00:02:46.460 ⇒ 00:02:48.160 my frame of like what
23 00:02:48.450 ⇒ 00:03:11.860 Uttam Kumaran: like outcomes can be which is like I worked for like the stripe of that time, or like the uber of that like I worked in a number one startup, and it didn’t. Nothing panned out and that really changed the way I look at every other opportunity which is like, Oh, these are just all lottery tickets. And so instead. And then the compensation typically isn’t gonna come from cash.
24 00:03:11.980 ⇒ 00:03:20.100 Uttam Kumaran: So I have to just either get like leadership. Opportunities are really amazing project opportunities. And
25 00:03:20.420 ⇒ 00:03:28.800 Uttam Kumaran: just like crush, just like go after those. And so the nice thing about startups is like, there’s not much structure. There’s not much hierarchy. There’s not much
26 00:03:28.940 ⇒ 00:03:52.330 Uttam Kumaran: You can really move laterally and like sometimes vertically, if you you get good enough, and at like a young age I was able to just like, try and manage teams and do all those those things, and I wasn’t getting paid appropriately. But it was like, I still got a lot of experience in a short amount of time. And so yeah.
27 00:03:53.070 ⇒ 00:03:54.490 Brittany Bond: 36
28 00:03:54.650 ⇒ 00:04:01.499 Brittany Bond: had to think about it, how it goes. At a certain point.
29 00:04:01.610 ⇒ 00:04:04.590 II wanted to connect with you because
30 00:04:04.930 ⇒ 00:04:07.980 Brittany Bond: I wanted to tell you my situation, and then, just like.
31 00:04:08.130 ⇒ 00:04:12.610 Brittany Bond: get your interest. Obviously, if we were to do something
32 00:04:12.670 ⇒ 00:04:22.529 Brittany Bond: with Scott or the Scotts, you and I would be working together a lot, and I was like, we haven’t had any one on one time, and
33 00:04:22.540 ⇒ 00:04:30.410 Brittany Bond: I just wanted to know kind of where your heads at like your interest and your availability, and all of that kind of stuff what your expectations are.
34 00:04:30.580 ⇒ 00:04:46.160 Brittany Bond: Just generally. But II guess to give you some background like my career trek projector is completely opposite of yours, like I went straight into the corporate world, the biggest commercial real estate company there is in the world.
35 00:04:46.330 ⇒ 00:04:52.350 I did that for almost 8 years, and then I went to another court. I went client side
36 00:04:52.740 ⇒ 00:04:58.719 Brittany Bond: from a consulting gig to Morgan Stanley, which is like another very corporate environment.
37 00:04:58.790 ⇒ 00:05:07.780 Brittany Bond: Then I went to Jol, which is the second largest commercial real estate company. So I you know I’ve been in the corporate game for, you know 10 years.
38 00:05:08.160 ⇒ 00:05:11.400 Brittany Bond: and then at jll.
39 00:05:11.600 ⇒ 00:05:14.100 Brittany Bond: long story short, like
40 00:05:14.410 ⇒ 00:05:26.020 Brittany Bond: my boss made a bad hire, and basically that hire try to get rid of both. So before he got rid of us, I was like, I. This isn’t even worth fighting like I’m I’m just gonna go elsewhere. And
41 00:05:26.050 ⇒ 00:05:28.270 Brittany Bond: you know, I’ve always been
42 00:05:28.280 ⇒ 00:05:44.370 Brittany Bond: trying to stay like at the forefront of real estate, like being workplace strategists. You’re always trying to, you know, innovate in ways that people can leverage real estate differently. Designed differently. And then, you know, when I went to
43 00:05:44.590 ⇒ 00:05:59.880 Brittany Bond: jol, it was the Jll flex business. So we were starting the business there. And I, you know, was building flex spaces. I was operating flex spaces. I was advising occupiers on how to use flex space in their portfolio
44 00:06:00.240 ⇒ 00:06:04.969 Brittany Bond: and that was all great, you know, again trying to say on the forefront of like this, trying to flex.
45 00:06:05.300 ⇒ 00:06:15.069 Brittany Bond: And then you know, when things went awry. There II found company. And
46 00:06:15.200 ⇒ 00:06:27.480 Brittany Bond: I thought, like, you know, people are definitely like the the business at the time was virtual tours for office space, where basically swivel was creating
47 00:06:27.830 ⇒ 00:06:29.360 Brittany Bond: like taking
48 00:06:29.450 ⇒ 00:06:43.649 Brittany Bond: you know, CAD files of white box spaces overlaying a design concept and helping the leasing agent showcase the space, you know, kind of the potential of the space which made it, you know, a great marketing tool.
49 00:06:43.840 ⇒ 00:06:51.600 Brittany Bond: I joined that group as head of growth. So I was doing like kind of
50 00:06:52.120 ⇒ 00:07:05.259 Brittany Bond: product strategy, like, where else can we take this product? Looking at new customer segments and things like that. And then 3 months into it is when the investors first of all were like.
51 00:07:05.320 ⇒ 00:07:06.879 Brittany Bond: Hey, it’s covid
52 00:07:06.970 ⇒ 00:07:13.040 Brittany Bond: commercial real estate sucks like we’re not investing anymore. Like, you guys should think about the metaverse.
53 00:07:13.130 ⇒ 00:07:31.969 Brittany Bond: And so I, being part of like product strategy, got pulled in with Scott and the 2 other founders, and was asked to put together like a pitch deck, basically like a strategy of like how we would take the technology which had like technology
54 00:07:32.240 ⇒ 00:07:34.669 Brittany Bond: basically built on a gaming platform.
55 00:07:35.050 ⇒ 00:07:38.920 Brittany Bond: To like, take that into the Meta. So
56 00:07:38.950 ⇒ 00:07:58.260 Brittany Bond: we did that Scott kind of set himself aside because he has a personal relationship with Mike Maples, Junior. I mean, they’ve just known each other for a long time, I think at 1 point Scott was Mike. I think he hired Mike Maples for his company at one time. And you know they
57 00:07:58.400 ⇒ 00:08:02.539 Brittany Bond: he set himself aside because Mike Naples basically was like.
58 00:08:02.580 ⇒ 00:08:12.840 Brittany Bond: I wanna make sure that I’m assessing this, not based on, like the fact that I think Scott can do anything but more so. The fact that I think this is a good business idea.
59 00:08:12.890 ⇒ 00:08:19.510 Brittany Bond: so we were able to convince him, and he gave us 2 million dollars, and then we pursued that
60 00:08:19.800 ⇒ 00:08:22.150 Brittany Bond: it was a very hard pivot.
61 00:08:22.200 ⇒ 00:08:38.540 Brittany Bond: We started out with, like Web, 3 companies who were like doing nft projects and wanted like nft galleries and stuff like that. And then we actually were able to grow our clients into like Mastercard and Png and Ruff Nation was our last client.
62 00:08:38.760 ⇒ 00:08:46.030 Brittany Bond: and it was really cool. But then, you know, everything went sideways, and just the demand wasn’t there. And
63 00:08:46.050 ⇒ 00:08:58.319 Brittany Bond: in that time period Scott also transitioned out of the CEO role into an executive chairman. And one of the other guys became our CEO because he was.
64 00:08:58.440 ⇒ 00:09:03.919 Brittany Bond: He kind of knew before this startup that, you know this pivot with swivel that
65 00:09:04.500 ⇒ 00:09:12.480 Brittany Bond: you know he was kind of running out of steam. If you will like being a CEO owning, you know truly owning a strategy
66 00:09:12.740 ⇒ 00:09:15.609 Brittany Bond: but the hard part is that like
67 00:09:16.140 ⇒ 00:09:30.119 Brittany Bond: he never really fully let go. And and so that was something II know you’re recording to talk to you about some of the things I’ve seen with Scott, I mean, I wouldn’t be.
68 00:09:30.530 ⇒ 00:09:48.470 Brittany Bond: I wouldn’t have a job, and II wouldn’t have this opportunity if you, was it for Scott? II think he’s a pain, fantastic person. He has a tremendous, you know. Vc. Network. He’s obviously a serial entrepreneur has a ton of experience like, if you ask me tomorrow to start, you know, building this company, I’d be like.
69 00:09:48.490 ⇒ 00:09:59.450 Brittany Bond: what do I do? Where do I? You know? Where do I establish our name? How do I legally get this done? And you know he would be able to give me all that sort of advice? So.
70 00:09:59.900 ⇒ 00:10:05.489 Brittany Bond: You know. A, obviously II was. I was part of multiple funding rounds.
71 00:10:05.660 ⇒ 00:10:11.190 Brittany Bond: So I got that experience. I was part of like every kind of, you know.
72 00:10:11.950 ⇒ 00:10:26.529 Brittany Bond: a a lot of the operation stuff I was doing so building our pro formas. You know, doing kind of our headcount strategy. All of that kind of stuff. So I feel like I got every part of the startup life cycle except for the beginning part.
73 00:10:26.590 ⇒ 00:10:40.510 Brittany Bond: Yeah. And you know where you’re having to legally establish the company and establish like equity and things like that. So you know that that’s just not a space that I have a ton of experience and and
74 00:10:40.600 ⇒ 00:10:44.100 Brittany Bond: but you know I now I feel like I have the confidence where I’m like.
75 00:10:44.190 ⇒ 00:11:10.089 Brittany Bond: Nobody knows what they’re doing when they start to start up. You just figure that anyways. So I guess some of my questions are around, like, you know, based on the conversations we’ve had today, like, what is your interest? If you were to do this like, how much time could you give it? What role would you expect like. I know you talk to Scott about some of that stuff, but I’d rather hear it from you directly.
76 00:11:10.130 ⇒ 00:11:14.210 Brittany Bond: And just get a sense of what you’ve thought of everything to date
77 00:11:15.110 ⇒ 00:11:17.109 Uttam Kumaran: totally. And you know I
78 00:11:17.240 ⇒ 00:11:45.149 Uttam Kumaran: I’d be even interested to hear more about like what you thought of after working in a like a large corporate environment. And then going into startup plan. Because I have. I’ve worked with a lot of enterprises on a contract capacity. And you know, I have a lot of friends of big enterprises, and it’s like quite a different world, and both in terms of like the rules you can break. But I think, like in at a big enterprise. There’s not a lot you could do to really like. Mess the whole thing up
79 00:11:45.160 ⇒ 00:12:01.149 Uttam Kumaran: right. If you’re 10 people you may hire one bad person, and it’s like all the companies like dead or you you may of like not set expectations with like a co-founder. Or you like, yeah. So there’s a ton. It’s like all execution risk.
80 00:12:01.180 ⇒ 00:12:16.290 Uttam Kumaran: You know. And so that’s where I spent a lot of time thinking about. And I think for me, the reason why I kind of like got out of that game was, it’s like I wanna be in a situation where we play that game where the odds are very high.
81 00:12:16.520 ⇒ 00:12:31.130 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s like, How do we stack the deck? Because what I realized is even in my last startup we raised I and again I was leading product. I wasn’t one of the founders but I was like the third employee, and they raised 8 million from Bessemer.
82 00:12:31.340 ⇒ 00:12:33.269 Uttam Kumaran: No, like off a deck
83 00:12:33.370 ⇒ 00:12:45.580 Uttam Kumaran: like 2 women founders hired great people, and still, like they had, they didn’t have much of a strategy. I worked like crazy, and it the product. For about a year year and a half we didn’t make any money.
84 00:12:45.690 ⇒ 00:12:55.420 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of people have loud left the company their resea. It’s like it. Everything on paper. They’re really great at Pr, like, if you looked at the company be like, Oh, my God, they’re like
85 00:12:55.430 ⇒ 00:13:01.150 Brittany Bond: they’re like the best company ever, and that’s like, not totally on the inside. It’s like totally whack
86 00:13:01.170 ⇒ 00:13:08.110 Uttam Kumaran: and so I don’t know. It’s really tough. II think for me. I in in this world I’m like
87 00:13:08.230 ⇒ 00:13:26.140 Uttam Kumaran: I again, II have a lot of ideas about people and things like that. But I’m really interested in the technology. Like, I just think, the one reason I’m really attracted to this idea is I in my world, everybody’s using this technology for really flashy things like image generation video. And I,
88 00:13:26.140 ⇒ 00:13:38.720 Uttam Kumaran: and like really tra spending my time seeking out where the technology will take a long time to permeate into based on talent based on just like knowledge divide just based on how hard the problem is.
89 00:13:38.720 ⇒ 00:13:56.099 Uttam Kumaran: And I wanna drive towards areas where there’s like no competition or very little meaning. There’s no competition, because nobody has the network. And real estate, I think, is a lot of like handshake type stuff. So that’s really interesting. There’s like, it’s, I think it’s some time, if, like, if you talk to pretty much.
90 00:13:56.100 ⇒ 00:14:12.439 Uttam Kumaran: I would say 98% of the people I know in engineering. Nobody knows a thing about commercial real estate, except maybe, like a few of the people I happen to work at. We work, and even then, I would say, 98% of the people I work with have no idea what the product we were selling is and the economics behind it.
91 00:14:12.510 ⇒ 00:14:16.160 Uttam Kumaran: So those are really intrinsic things that I look for is like
92 00:14:16.520 ⇒ 00:14:28.589 Uttam Kumaran: there’s ton of smart engineers, and you try to go towards places where there’s no, not, there’s not talent being allocated. And then, lastly, is like, What’s the outcome like? Is the outcome like this gets sold? Is the outcome
93 00:14:28.970 ⇒ 00:14:35.680 Uttam Kumaran: that like this runs and we start other product lines is the outcome.
94 00:14:35.770 ⇒ 00:14:40.839 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And that’s what and what timeline right? And II don’t think. And those things. I think
95 00:14:40.920 ⇒ 00:14:55.759 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of leaders that I work for. They shied away from answering those, and in retrospect I believe that that was just because they didn’t spend time to think about that. And it’s not that that can’t change. It’s just that you have to be honest with, like what you’re expecting out of the business.
96 00:14:56.060 ⇒ 00:15:01.670 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, and then I think the last thing I’ll say is like I in startups, like, I think, because of
97 00:15:02.270 ⇒ 00:15:23.190 Uttam Kumaran: how tense it can be, how ambiguous and stuff is how much opportunity there is. It could lead to a lot of just like behavior that’s like unethical. And you may have see, or just like it’s just not right. The way people act. They act with like disdain. They don’t treat people well, and they expect, like they expect this to be like a Facebook out of a dorm room like this is like a company
98 00:15:23.190 ⇒ 00:15:33.960 Uttam Kumaran: with like real people that are working really hard. And there can be real organization and planning. And so all that stuff to be said is like it would have to be. There’d have to be a really big shot on goal for me to like
99 00:15:34.190 ⇒ 00:15:52.610 Uttam Kumaran: for me to consider spending a ton of time on it. That being said, I think there’s ways of moving that idea forward. That isn’t like, okay. Everybody comes on full time. And like we, we have to like hit it. Now that can be incremental milestones that we hit to like to get a sense of like.
100 00:15:52.710 ⇒ 00:15:56.390 Uttam Kumaran: what’s the demand for whatever product that is. And
101 00:15:56.530 ⇒ 00:15:57.600 Brittany Bond: yeah.
102 00:15:57.890 ⇒ 00:16:00.780 Uttam Kumaran: you know, certainly, on my side is like
103 00:16:00.850 ⇒ 00:16:08.169 Uttam Kumaran: I, there’s a ton of engineering support that I have, that I could really throw at that. And so those are all the kind of the things
104 00:16:08.300 ⇒ 00:16:09.360 Uttam Kumaran: like
105 00:16:09.410 ⇒ 00:16:27.100 Uttam Kumaran: in my head, I would say a lot of it again. A lot of it is just like I’ve kind of jaded after being in like super venture back, start ups and even here, even hearing like the metaverse thing, and hearing a lot of that stuff like, I just know how the Vcs work, too. So it’s tough. It’s really tough game.
106 00:16:27.680 ⇒ 00:16:32.319 Brittany Bond: Yeah. So II guess it that first of all, thanks for sharing all that.
107 00:16:32.400 ⇒ 00:16:37.050 Brittany Bond: a couple of things that I learned well, one
108 00:16:37.880 ⇒ 00:16:44.490 Brittany Bond: in the corporate world I was always part of like a department or a business. Sorry. I’m a little stuffy. I have a cold, but
109 00:16:44.650 ⇒ 00:16:46.609 Brittany Bond: that was like.
110 00:16:47.610 ⇒ 00:17:02.300 Brittany Bond: just just starting right? Like, just, we’re just developing a new business or new department at the company. And it was like, Okay, great. I got to be innovative, or, you know, build things from scratch. That’s what I love doing, you know. Just
111 00:17:02.550 ⇒ 00:17:18.629 Brittany Bond: you know, not really having like a cyclical work to me is just like the most boring thing I can think of. And so, you know, when there’s already like brokerage is a is a world that has had the same process for hundreds of years and never changed. And
112 00:17:18.890 ⇒ 00:17:22.880 Brittany Bond: you know any dummy can do it like I have friends that are in like.
113 00:17:22.960 ⇒ 00:17:34.889 Brittany Bond: you know, private wealth and stuff. And they’re like, Yeah, we always joke that like this doesn’t work out. We’ll just be a broker because you don’t need a license or anything license, but it’s not like this. Dfa, you know.
114 00:17:35.020 ⇒ 00:17:38.359 Brittany Bond: Anyways. So
115 00:17:38.610 ⇒ 00:17:39.620 Brittany Bond: I think.
116 00:17:40.140 ⇒ 00:17:48.430 Brittany Bond: even being in the corporate world and having the opportunity to start new businesses. You’re so limited like. I spent
117 00:17:48.750 ⇒ 00:17:52.560 Brittany Bond: 8 weeks. Just try to convince the CEO at Jol
118 00:17:52.940 ⇒ 00:18:04.449 Brittany Bond: not to fund us. They would give us 20 million dollars for like the next year, like no problem, but just to let us go to market with our actual business. And they were so scared of like
119 00:18:04.730 ⇒ 00:18:07.519 Brittany Bond: letting us launch it because of
120 00:18:07.760 ⇒ 00:18:35.239 Brittany Bond: we work being our client and facilities management. And didn’t, wanna, you know, be perceived as us competing with them. And all of these sorts of things was like. There was so many dynamics politically that you could not actually drive forward. It was extremely slow. They were forcing me to use like any internal resources we had that had some expertise that could be utilized rather than getting the right person. You know it just tremendously slow
121 00:18:35.240 ⇒ 00:18:39.549 Brittany Bond: in in that environment, not to mention, like the political dynamics which are horrible.
122 00:18:39.930 ⇒ 00:18:44.760 Brittany Bond: You know, being successful in the corporate environment to me is just like
123 00:18:45.010 ⇒ 00:18:56.269 Brittany Bond: being politically savvy. And you know, II was able to figure that out. But I hated doing it. You know what I mean. I think the the startup world to me was liberating. And just like.
124 00:18:56.380 ⇒ 00:19:03.330 Brittany Bond: you know, the ability to boot fast. you know, personally, just having a lot of flexibility around my time.
125 00:19:03.460 ⇒ 00:19:07.249 Brittany Bond: You know, just being able to think.
126 00:19:07.480 ⇒ 00:19:13.749 Brittany Bond: you know, have wild ideas and try them. And you know
127 00:19:14.360 ⇒ 00:19:19.129 Brittany Bond: great something out of nothing, you know that that’s the exciting part for me.
128 00:19:19.680 ⇒ 00:19:22.840 Brittany Bond: I do think. You know, I experience like
129 00:19:23.340 ⇒ 00:19:25.010 Brittany Bond: my, you know, the only
130 00:19:25.370 ⇒ 00:19:43.119 Brittany Bond: there is political dynamics with that are within swivel, you know. Stop moving out of the CEO position was really hard. For everyone. And the other guys he’s known, for, you know, a decade or so they’ve been on multiple business together. They’re all great friends and stuff like that. But
131 00:19:43.320 ⇒ 00:20:08.789 Brittany Bond: the board was essentially built with Scott’s buddies rather than like experts that were better experts, or, you know, real estate experts and things like that. So there’s a few cautionary tales I have. That I think would make me want to approach this differently and make me think like, okay, Tom, if you’re going to be in this like. It’s more important that you and I are lined than anyone else outside of this realm.
132 00:20:09.110 ⇒ 00:20:10.210 Brittany Bond: And
133 00:20:10.450 ⇒ 00:20:20.139 Brittany Bond: like II don’t know if Scott went deep into like the funding approach that he’s thinking. But even that I’m like, okay.
134 00:20:20.190 ⇒ 00:20:23.180 Brittany Bond: is that for you to decide? Or is that for us to decide
135 00:20:23.520 ⇒ 00:20:37.490 Brittany Bond: and the way he’s driving the strategy, like he obviously has a preference of one space rather than the other, like how he wants to go about it, and one of the questions I asked him yesterday when I caught up with him is like, Okay, at what point like are you
136 00:20:37.760 ⇒ 00:20:41.119 Brittany Bond: meeting, because he said he was going to meet with these Vc. Soon.
137 00:20:41.370 ⇒ 00:20:58.410 Brittany Bond: like next week. And I said, Well, at what point are you gonna include founders, you know. Obviously, wouldn’t they wanna invest in like the founders and know who they are? And he was like, well, I’m not gonna ask them for any money until I know who this founders are, and I can’t go to them unless, like you’re really committed. And New town’s really committed.
138 00:20:58.900 ⇒ 00:21:04.699 Brittany Bond: And I was like, I mean III see his I mean again, like this is just the game, and like II understand
139 00:21:04.810 ⇒ 00:21:26.160 Uttam Kumaran: where they’re coming from, but at the same time, then go ahead and like. I also understand the leverage. And I think the leverage that we have right, and that’s that’s II see where they’re coming from, and that’s a good. It’s a good like test move to be like commit. So I can go get the money. But also, like I could go get the money like I, you know, and I could go get engineers and
140 00:21:38.910 ⇒ 00:21:59.180 Brittany Bond: and and you know, he was like, you know, we’re only gonna ask for like 50,000, and then, you know, Scott and I will take 15, and you and you, Tom, can split 35. However, you wanna split. And I was like, where those numbers come from, you know, like. And what does that mean in terms of like, how involved are you gonna be? And
141 00:21:59.400 ⇒ 00:22:16.680 Brittany Bond: and what are your like? How are you gonna get paid? Long term? And he was like, well, you know, I would be on the board long term. I was like, you don’t know anything about real estate, like I guess he does, because he played in the game for like a couple of years with swivel, but I wouldn’t consider him a real estate expert, nor is he an AI expert.
142 00:22:16.810 ⇒ 00:22:20.030 And so it’s it’s things like that where, like
143 00:22:20.200 ⇒ 00:22:29.149 Brittany Bond: I would II am very appreciative of this opportunity. He’s setting up because he has great Vc partner, or you know, friends. But
144 00:22:29.550 ⇒ 00:22:44.900 Brittany Bond: you know, we we need to think about how we enter this from the get go and how we set up 1 million. And actually, you’re spot on. Because this is exactly
145 00:22:45.040 ⇒ 00:22:55.349 Uttam Kumaran: like the way issues occur is. And again, like I’ve been in businesses where they’ll be like, Yeah, we’ll we’ll do this, and then, like down the line, you’ll get some more equity. So it’s like.
146 00:22:55.420 ⇒ 00:23:20.120 Uttam Kumaran: none of that ever happens. And it’s like business. And these guys have been like in business. So this is how like I, this is their ruthless by nature. It’s like they don’t even know they’re like they’re they’re they’re finding the points and being like, Yeah, don’t worry. We’ll just do this, and like I got it, it’s like, No, no, if 50 KI think I could go get 50 K. Like wired today to go work on like I that we there needs to be a plan.
147 00:23:20.120 ⇒ 00:23:32.019 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna. And again, it’s also like what’s even for me again, because for my side like I have this business I’m working on. It’s gotta be qu quite compelling monetarily, and even like
148 00:23:32.840 ⇒ 00:23:52.739 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t have a boss right now. So if it’s got to be me compelling from I can’t be listening to too many people tell me what to do in this bit like, and and so th, those are things where I think in startup PE if you haven’t been part of it. A lot of the way people gatekeep is, they’ll be like, yeah, Vc, connections. Yeah, I have
149 00:23:52.850 ⇒ 00:24:05.579 Uttam Kumaran: like, yeah. Oh, yeah, like, we can get people, we can get customers and stuff like that. I’m telling you none of that matters except that the product works like I can go get those same people on a phone call
150 00:24:05.640 ⇒ 00:24:25.379 Uttam Kumaran: like II don’t worry about that, because if the product works, we can get the money I have the. The. The hard part is, if the product doesn’t work and you get the money, and then it’s a it’s a waste of our time for me. Wasting my time is actually what’s so risky here and that, like, you know. And that’s what I think a lot about
151 00:24:25.450 ⇒ 00:24:31.019 Brittany Bond: yeah. And so like, even in these conversations that you know we’ve had in person, I’m like.
152 00:24:31.480 ⇒ 00:24:51.210 Brittany Bond: why are you driving this strategy, Scott. Like, if if you’re truly gonna empower us to be founders and yours, you selected us to be experts, you know why II feel like I can’t really speak up in those environments as effectively as I would brainstorm, like one on one with a founder. And so it’s
153 00:24:51.520 ⇒ 00:24:54.009 Brittany Bond: challenging for me.
154 00:24:55.170 ⇒ 00:25:19.310 Brittany Bond: I’m learning.
155 00:25:19.520 ⇒ 00:25:23.900 Uttam Kumaran: you know, so I don’t. This is like one opportunity, but I think
156 00:25:24.010 ⇒ 00:25:29.010 Uttam Kumaran: the the the way I’ve seen, and then again, like you correct me if I’m wrong. But it’s like
157 00:25:29.070 ⇒ 00:25:56.790 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been part of many of these sessions where it’s like, Oh, like, there’s there’s money here. These guys are connected to Andreas. And these guys like they could totally work. None of that matters like 95% of the injuries and companies fail all like it doesn’t matter who gives you the money. They’re not sitting in front of Zoom or 8 to 10 HA day doing the work. I don’t I, really? And this is like where this is something that like I’m really unambiguous on is that like
158 00:25:56.790 ⇒ 00:26:07.680 Uttam Kumaran: where the money comes from the Vc. Connections, none of that gets you a hardworking team and really committed engineers and a core foundation. And then a really clear strategy
159 00:26:07.810 ⇒ 00:26:09.890 Uttam Kumaran: like, II think if that costs
160 00:26:09.940 ⇒ 00:26:23.500 Uttam Kumaran: 100 KI would just say, let’s go get 100 K. And to try it out. I don’t like I don’t. So this is where I think we have a lot of leverage. And that is like cool. I have the technology leverage. And then you have a lot of the operational experience in commercial real estate.
161 00:26:23.930 ⇒ 00:26:32.510 Uttam Kumaran: They something they need to bring to the table, which is either a ton of flexibility, a ton of equity, or a ton of cash right
162 00:26:32.990 ⇒ 00:26:34.320 Uttam Kumaran: other than that? What
163 00:26:34.520 ⇒ 00:26:52.329 Uttam Kumaran: if they’re if they’re if they’re gonna sit back and not run the company, there’s nothing else to do apart from run the company, you know. Cause I don’t worry. I don’t worry too much about financing and things like that I worry about. I don’t have connections to commercial real estate. I think you have a ton of that. What I do have is like, I’ve run engineering organizations.
164 00:26:52.380 ⇒ 00:27:06.339 Uttam Kumaran: If you give me. If I could call 2 engineers, get them working today and we could spend pretty much anything you want in like 2 months rigorously built like with really excellently. I’m so confident in that
165 00:27:06.360 ⇒ 00:27:17.790 Uttam Kumaran: and like, I think II think I now have been part of enough fundraising, and you have been to go get more equity or to pitch the company really well and already like, that’s what I’ve been doing is like, I’ve been thinking about the idea of talking to other people
166 00:27:17.870 ⇒ 00:27:25.150 Uttam Kumaran: more, and just like to get a sense of like what it’s like, and even for my business, all I do is pitch every day. Whatever I’m doing, so
167 00:27:25.510 ⇒ 00:27:36.269 Uttam Kumaran: I think about is like, what what do they bring to the table? So I think I I’ve completely the same like kind of like mindset as you in terms of like, what’s the what are the leverage points for us.
168 00:27:36.330 ⇒ 00:27:37.620 Brittany Bond: Yeah.
169 00:27:37.630 ⇒ 00:27:38.660 So
170 00:27:38.710 ⇒ 00:27:40.449 Brittany Bond: I guess,
171 00:27:41.620 ⇒ 00:27:46.059 Brittany Bond: what is, what is your thought about how we approach this? Because.
172 00:27:46.410 ⇒ 00:27:52.250 Brittany Bond: you know, he was like, you know, I need to know Friday or Monday, and I was like, Hmm!
173 00:27:52.460 ⇒ 00:28:04.570 Brittany Bond: I haven’t talked to him yet. Oh, really. yeah, no cause I thought he was gonna call me at some point, and then we met the other week. And then
174 00:28:04.760 ⇒ 00:28:19.619 Uttam Kumaran: II just I don’t know where this is. And again, this isn’t a. It’s a slide deck. Yeah, it does. Slide deck may get you a million dollars, but that’s the execution risk is everything. So I don’t these days. I don’t worry about like.
175 00:28:19.700 ⇒ 00:28:31.529 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, have we given up too much knowledge stuff like that? This is all Google of all. You can get someone to get you this. It’s a it’s like, do you have the people that are willing to dedicate so much time for the outcome? And like
176 00:28:31.820 ⇒ 00:28:44.279 Uttam Kumaran: that’s what I know I bring to the table, so I haven’t called yet, and I’ve just been like busy with other stuff. I think I’ll after this I’ll kind of think a little bit more. But yeah, I don’t know. I’d be interested to hear like
177 00:28:44.330 ⇒ 00:28:50.160 Uttam Kumaran: what you think is like a good next step you mentioned that he. He’s like set some sort of deadline or something.
178 00:28:50.320 ⇒ 00:28:53.200 Brittany Bond: Yeah, cause he’s he’s supposed so
179 00:28:54.250 ⇒ 00:29:01.840 Brittany Bond: again, I think Scott is a great person, but he’s a true CEO of a startup like he.
180 00:29:02.390 ⇒ 00:29:06.080 Brittany Bond: He’ll tell white lies to like make
181 00:29:06.210 ⇒ 00:29:11.300 Brittany Bond: things move right, you know. And he
182 00:29:12.170 ⇒ 00:29:14.400 Brittany Bond: he’s self-interested.
183 00:29:15.060 ⇒ 00:29:35.770 Brittany Bond: 1,000, CEO,
184 00:29:36.500 ⇒ 00:29:37.610 Brittany Bond: he
185 00:29:38.640 ⇒ 00:29:43.190 Brittany Bond: did that go through. Yes, yeah. Okay.
186 00:29:44.010 ⇒ 00:29:51.060 Brittany Bond: He his name’s Wade Cone. I’ve been talking to him about this this stuff with Scott and
187 00:29:51.190 ⇒ 00:29:53.409 Brittany Bond: wait. Wait’s like I think he’s
188 00:29:53.950 ⇒ 00:30:10.130 Brittany Bond: was late fifties, and he, you know, he’s like, pretty like you’re gonna learn so much from this is, gonna be great, you know. Do it. You’re a woman, you can start, you know. You can get so much funding. And blah blah blah like he’s very. You know. He’s
189 00:30:10.150 ⇒ 00:30:12.310 Brittany Bond: he’s a really nice guy, and he’s
190 00:30:12.990 ⇒ 00:30:19.559 Brittany Bond: like Super on the ethical side where Scott is like on that. Let’s just get it done side right.
191 00:30:19.840 ⇒ 00:30:27.579 Brittany Bond: Anyways, he’s also been approached by Scott to like consider working on another project. With him. And
192 00:30:27.590 ⇒ 00:30:39.499 Brittany Bond: wait is really hesitant, because, you know, Scott was so heavy handed, and like being executive chairman when Wade was CEO and Wade really wanted kind of full autonomy blah blah anyways.
193 00:30:39.520 ⇒ 00:30:46.770 Brittany Bond: Wade spoke with Scott, able not Scott, Herman and
194 00:30:47.870 ⇒ 00:30:55.559 Brittany Bond: able. Brought up this medium article that, like X explains a funding
195 00:30:55.640 ⇒ 00:31:12.660 Brittany Bond: structure. Where you can like buy back the equity. Essentially, it’s kind of like a convertible note. But it’s there. There’s slightly different nuances. Anyways. And he was like, this is the structure that they’re thinking about in terms of these, you know, projects
196 00:31:13.500 ⇒ 00:31:27.010 Brittany Bond: in general. It doesn’t really matter, because, you know, that should be up to us. If we decide to do this. But II feel like it would be
197 00:31:28.510 ⇒ 00:31:30.170 Brittany Bond: really difficult.
198 00:31:31.920 ⇒ 00:31:38.139 Brittany Bond: Well, II think there’s a number of paths here like, if you really wanted to proceed something like this?
199 00:31:38.970 ⇒ 00:31:48.690 Brittany Bond: we, you know, we could say, Hey, look like this has been a good exercise. But like we need to develop our own strategy around this.
200 00:31:48.820 ⇒ 00:31:59.070 Brittany Bond: We love your advice if you’re willing to review it in a couple of weeks, or something like that like that would be great. But we need to think through it ourselves and develop a strategy that we think is.
201 00:31:59.180 ⇒ 00:32:11.960 Brittany Bond: you know, venture fundable. And, you know, worth raising money around. Yeah. Or I mean to me, it’s kind of like we need that space to do that. Or we’re not going to do this at all.
202 00:32:12.580 ⇒ 00:32:14.530 Brittany Bond: Yeah. Because
203 00:32:15.780 ⇒ 00:32:22.359 even in that conversation we need to figure out like, what do we think the Scots roles can be, if at all.
204 00:32:23.670 ⇒ 00:32:26.960 Uttam Kumaran: I agree. And and again, yeah, I wanna know
205 00:32:27.000 ⇒ 00:32:30.949 Uttam Kumaran: one beyond the money. What like? Why, even be involved?
206 00:32:31.160 ⇒ 00:32:39.849 Uttam Kumaran: Right cause. And this is what I talked to a friend of mine. He’s like, why they don’t want to run the company. And I was like, Yeah, they just wanna be in like, I guess, involved or something. And he’s like
207 00:32:39.950 ⇒ 00:32:42.230 Uttam Kumaran: he’s like. And they were trying to raise like a hundred K,
208 00:32:42.440 ⇒ 00:32:53.350 Uttam Kumaran: he’s like, I’m like, Yeah, he’s like, dude. Why don’t you? Why don’t you go do that and just go raise a couple of 1 million dollars to go do that. And I was like, Yeah, that’s like, good. So that’s when I started thinking about it. But I guess my one question would be.
209 00:32:53.510 ⇒ 00:33:04.140 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think these things like there’s a lot of ways of finding like whether a product is going to work, and if isolating demand and understanding that
210 00:33:04.790 ⇒ 00:33:22.300 Uttam Kumaran: without having to go start a company do this like you could do that for basically free, except your cost of like some of your time right? We could put up a nice landing page, have a pitch that go go, take advantage of relationships, put this in front of people see whether there’s real demand
211 00:33:22.520 ⇒ 00:33:29.630 Uttam Kumaran: like. And and then again, like, I would fill out, at least on the technical side, whether what’s technically possible. And then there’s a lot of ways of doing that
212 00:33:29.830 ⇒ 00:33:39.499 Uttam Kumaran: going and talking to the Vcs. You’re gonna get advice on, like how to make this like you’re just not gonna get commercial real estate product market fit advice, which is the only thing I care about.
213 00:33:39.510 ⇒ 00:33:55.499 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna know whether it’s gonna the product is going to work. You know, this sort of stuff, I think, is nice to talk about. But again, the reason why I think a lot of folks that caught up in. This is like you worry that. Oh, if it becomes a hundred 1 million dollars and like is Mike, am I gonna get like screwed?
214 00:33:55.750 ⇒ 00:34:14.830 Uttam Kumaran: There’s so much between that that instead I care about is the product actually gonna work? And do we have an edge here? That’s gonna last. And you’re totally right. Is there a strategy and all that can just be talked through through meetings and like planning. And
215 00:34:15.570 ⇒ 00:34:19.160 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, and you know, we’ve probably spent 20 h total on this.
216 00:34:19.310 ⇒ 00:34:22.990 Uttam Kumaran: You know, 20 h total to dedicate
217 00:34:23.250 ⇒ 00:34:28.920 Uttam Kumaran: like 2 to 5 years on minimum is not enough for me. After doing
218 00:34:29.239 ⇒ 00:34:38.279 Uttam Kumaran: many startups, you know. So I’m on the same page. And honestly, I would say more, my question is less, for them is more for you on like.
219 00:34:38.400 ⇒ 00:34:42.079 Uttam Kumaran: do you believe the product actually has legs and that.
220 00:34:42.219 ⇒ 00:34:59.320 Uttam Kumaran: And then, if if yes or no, what’s the confidence? And then how do we get that higher? Like? What are the steps. That’s that’s all I care about, you know. I mean that. And that’s where, like some of these conversations, have been difficult for me, cause he’s like we really have to like.
221 00:34:59.380 ⇒ 00:35:04.580 Brittany Bond: you know, when he started leaning towards work play strategies like that’s my core background. But I was like.
222 00:35:04.800 ⇒ 00:35:09.370 Brittany Bond: I don’t know. There’s too much, too many personal decisions and workplace strategies. There’s so many
223 00:35:09.780 ⇒ 00:35:23.729 Brittany Bond: decisions involved in a workplace strategy. Like, you can aggregate all the data and mix it. However, you want and come up with a strategy. But there’s actually like infinite scenarios, and how you can slice and dice it, and
224 00:35:23.990 ⇒ 00:35:27.019 you know I don’t. I think that’s
225 00:35:27.160 ⇒ 00:35:35.879 Brittany Bond: gonna be hard to monetize like someone trusting technology to do that. I really think it’s more around. You know, the
226 00:35:36.120 ⇒ 00:35:51.580 Brittany Bond: the finders fee like of finding and selecting a location, making people their own real estate experts where they don’t have to hire all these people in the process to just like sign a deal and bringing that landlord and tenant relationship closer together like that.
227 00:35:52.220 ⇒ 00:35:54.990 Brittany Bond: That, to me is is
228 00:35:55.300 ⇒ 00:36:01.520 Brittany Bond: where there is a problem like that, the broker being in the middle of these tenants and landlords.
229 00:36:01.650 ⇒ 00:36:15.690 Brittany Bond: so II have a strong interest in pursuing something to solve that problem. And I think that’s like, you know, II haven’t thought fully through how to make money like I don’t know if it’s just.
230 00:36:16.130 ⇒ 00:36:30.150 Brittany Bond: I don’t know if there’s enough. Tre. You know I haven’t done a tam exercise to know if there’s enough transactions that happen to, you know. Wait to get a cut of the deal every time. Or should there be a subscription? Or you know II haven’t really thought through that, because
231 00:36:30.300 ⇒ 00:36:43.910 Brittany Bond: I feel so distracted by all these other concepts he’s throwing out, and you know his. He believes his value is like he has so many frameworks for these go to market strategies, and whatever else but, like
232 00:36:43.990 ⇒ 00:36:59.100 Uttam Kumaran: those are all just a distraction to me, because I can’t think about the one thing I believe in totally. Yeah. And on my side, is this possible? I’m an engineer. I’m gonna find
233 00:36:59.150 ⇒ 00:37:20.680 Uttam Kumaran: the technology or hints of a technology to craft it, but doesn’t mean that’s the right thing to work on. And this is where, like II have a I’ve had a lot of struggles in that. I’ve worked for many people, and I worked in product where you could said, make this thing it gets made. It’s great. It’s to spec. It works. And then there’s no adoption, and it’s like, well.
234 00:37:20.920 ⇒ 00:37:34.489 Uttam Kumaran: now, it’s like, oh, I should have been involved on like if this was even a good project to work on. So those are things where it’s like, if you tell me to put my engineering hat on. Yeah, I think we can build whatever we want. I don’t worry about that. But then it’s like, is it worth building.
235 00:37:34.660 ⇒ 00:37:44.740 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like again, for me, it’s like, Can we even get tal to do that? What’s the timeframe is that gonna get outdated soon? And then, yeah, it’s like, is there even a buyer?
236 00:37:45.000 ⇒ 00:37:48.329 Brittany Bond: Yeah. So I think about the buyer. So
237 00:37:48.340 ⇒ 00:37:59.730 Brittany Bond: when I think about the buyer, I’m like, Okay, every startup who gets funding. Who wants to space like they would be willing to try it right? Like, what do they have to lose? That’s one of the things that yeah, really appeals to me is that
238 00:37:59.850 ⇒ 00:38:02.460 Brittany Bond: in in the early stages, when we don’t need to make
239 00:38:02.760 ⇒ 00:38:08.100 Brittany Bond: crazy revenue like people would be willing to try it. There’s no risk in trying it right?
240 00:38:08.180 ⇒ 00:38:12.349 Brittany Bond: Whereas other projects I was working on. You know, this little stuff like
241 00:38:12.620 ⇒ 00:38:25.540 Uttam Kumaran: to try it. You wasted like 6 to 8 weeks of your time. Why raise money for trying like? It’s not gonna cost. It’s like, why start a company? Have all these things raise all this raise like.
242 00:38:25.750 ⇒ 00:38:52.710 Uttam Kumaran: any more than like what it would cost to pay engineer. I wouldn’t take any money. I would fund it all to engineers, and then just we can put up like a little tool and then run with that that we I would do that for 50 K. Or less. And I. And I think what I could do for less, and I wouldn’t take any money, I would have funded it. I just don’t have other stuff. So you know what I’m saying like, this is all this stuff. I just I wonder why
243 00:38:52.720 ⇒ 00:38:58.019 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think you need these things to test the hypothesis. I wonder?
244 00:38:58.180 ⇒ 00:39:05.849 Uttam Kumaran: I wonder why? Like? And yeah, III feel if I were to guess I would say it’s probably just like
245 00:39:06.110 ⇒ 00:39:30.669 Brittany Bond: that’s how Scott knows how to run a company. That’s what he’s used to doing. You know he’s II mean Mike Maples is Silicon Valley investor in the bubble of whatever trend is happening. That’s why we ended up in the matter like that was not a good idea. It’s just like something he wanted to place the bet on, and it would didn’t cost him a ton. For them, you know. They’re like they’re
246 00:39:30.850 ⇒ 00:39:48.819 Uttam Kumaran: the way they make money is through portfolio construction, and for us we don’t have a portfolio. This is like our bet right? And so I don’t care whether the Vcs. Right are lost down. They’re not only making the management fees. They’re taking the 20. They’re they’re making 2 and 20. So
247 00:39:48.820 ⇒ 00:40:01.669 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. It doesn’t matter for me what they like. They think about this. It’s more of like. Is this actually a bet for us? And this is our own. This would be our only bet, right? Their internal bets we could make on structure, the company blah blah blah. But like.
248 00:40:01.850 ⇒ 00:40:08.440 Uttam Kumaran: I think we could test whether the product works for 50 K, and I think they should write that check today, no questions asked
249 00:40:08.510 ⇒ 00:40:15.589 Uttam Kumaran: and just off just off Total trust. And instead of like doing this stuff whatever. If it works, then we’ll figure it out like I,
250 00:40:15.610 ⇒ 00:40:18.440 Uttam Kumaran: if then, if there but if there’s no trust already, then
251 00:40:18.790 ⇒ 00:40:31.690 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t. I don’t, I decided I’m not working. I don’t want to work with like in that situation anymore. Because this is again, this is what happens in startups. It’s just like weird situations like this. People get caught up in this stuff.
252 00:40:31.870 ⇒ 00:41:01.509 Uttam Kumaran: and I don’t know why I just don’t. I don’t get. I don’t get that. Why, that’s important for business, like I think we could test out whether this hypothesis has any legs. Similarly, it’s all of our other like conversations. You know. We’re spending time talking about it. Think about our little test. To run puts a pitches together in front of people who are real big institutional heads that like would actually maybe purchase this, or who who are the people that would say no and try to convince them. And then we could kind of test the idea, you know.
253 00:41:01.530 ⇒ 00:41:02.610 Brittany Bond: So
254 00:41:10.620 ⇒ 00:41:18.940 Brittany Bond: What we can say is like, Hey, one, we need some time to like work out this
255 00:41:19.480 ⇒ 00:41:21.460 Brittany Bond: hypothesis ourselves.
256 00:41:22.650 ⇒ 00:41:27.669 Brittany Bond: Step 1, 2, if we feel like that’s worth testing.
257 00:41:27.790 ⇒ 00:41:38.520 Brittany Bond: And we both feel strongly about that. Then we would like to seek funding ourselves for 50 grand or you know, whatever we think, it’s gonna take to like test that out
258 00:41:38.930 ⇒ 00:41:59.329 Brittany Bond: and then from there, you know, once we’re able to test that out, then we’ll decide. If we pursue, you know, additional funding or not. The problem is like that doesn’t build a role for them. And they’re gonna be like, great. We put you guys together. Now we have. No, you know, you don’t want us.
259 00:41:59.400 ⇒ 00:42:04.239 Brittany Bond: Yeah, yeah, I see. I see what you mean. I see what you mean.
260 00:42:04.540 ⇒ 00:42:15.989 Brittany Bond: So I think there, it’s like. maybe if we decide they wouldn’t be a valuable advisor, and I did. You have a Scott a chat with Scott able?
261 00:42:17.030 ⇒ 00:42:23.440 Uttam Kumaran: No, but I’ve I’ve known about Spot able for a long time. I haven’t talked to him. No.
262 00:42:24.390 ⇒ 00:42:28.340 remember it. Remind me how how you got connected to Scott Harmon
263 00:42:28.770 ⇒ 00:42:32.629 Uttam Kumaran: I got. I know a guy, Michael, I’m next coast.
264 00:42:40.420 ⇒ 00:42:43.690 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe you should talk to him. And then I met Scott for a coffee. And then, yeah.
265 00:42:43.810 ⇒ 00:42:44.520 Brittany Bond: okay.
266 00:42:44.950 ⇒ 00:43:10.069 Uttam Kumaran: he’s very in. He’s very convincing. Yeah. And again, like, I’m I’m fine to do studies of all this to stay a couple of hours. My time. I’m learning about commercial real estate having. I’m having some great conversations with people. But again, the biggest thing is on my mind is like, I want us to win. If this, if this like, we spend any amount of our time, think both of our time is super valuable. Whether it’s this idea or another idea.
267 00:43:10.070 ⇒ 00:43:16.830 Uttam Kumaran: There’s so many ways of qualifying these ideas before you get into the business, you know. And I and again, I just think, like
268 00:43:17.000 ⇒ 00:43:38.610 Uttam Kumaran: start up. Land is like warped, and that people think like you have to do all these things. The rails money, the execution risk is so high, regardless of. Even if you get 10 million dollars, all those things like, if you don’t have connections, engineers don’t connections to Cra. You’re just like every other startup that’s like, I wanna go infiltrate this industry. They’ve never even purchased office space before. It’s
269 00:43:38.610 ⇒ 00:43:51.130 Brittany Bond: and that’s why II have never pursued a startup myself, because I’ve never had like a technical network like I’ve never had you, or you know, now I have the former founders that I worked with. But
270 00:43:51.160 ⇒ 00:43:55.540 Brittany Bond: they’re not real estate experts, and I don’t think that’s really where they wanna spend their time.
271 00:43:55.710 ⇒ 00:44:01.870 Brittany Bond: And there will. There will be some ambiguity, and I’m not saying like everything has to be settled. But
272 00:44:02.240 ⇒ 00:44:05.039 you could poke at a lot of assumptions
273 00:44:05.060 ⇒ 00:44:08.570 Brittany Bond: through meetings and like putting together just basic prototypes.
274 00:44:09.330 ⇒ 00:44:17.429 Uttam Kumaran: And like, I don’t. I just been part of so many exercises where like that. That doesn’t occur. And again, once you’re locked into a company. It’s like.
275 00:44:17.720 ⇒ 00:44:27.930 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like a it’s a quite a ride and quite a demanding thing. And I. And again, this is for for me. It’s like I just want to play in that game to win.
276 00:44:27.980 ⇒ 00:44:35.449 Uttam Kumaran: you know, and like, really try to stack the deck as much as possible, but I totally hear you then. I don’t know what the best
277 00:44:36.080 ⇒ 00:44:41.489 Uttam Kumaran: like option here as well. I think I think that could be a good route, which is just saying, Okay.
278 00:44:41.950 ⇒ 00:45:04.700 Uttam Kumaran: one I wanted to be clear like is this, are you guys pursuing? I cause I’m it’s not clear for me, and I haven’t thought to anybody. So I’m even happy to send that email, or whatever being like, Hey one, are we? Is this, are we starting a business do? Are you thinking I’m gonna run it, or we’re gonna run it, or like what? Let’s can we please say that out loud. I don’t, and I don’t. I don’t care like. That’s what I need to know. Second,
279 00:45:05.080 ⇒ 00:45:14.740 Uttam Kumaran: Why can’t we just put together a little bit of funding and a little bit of like a a one to 3 month product roadmap, to just build something basic.
280 00:45:15.200 ⇒ 00:45:24.099 Uttam Kumaran: arrange a bunch of meetings with the people who would purchase this or would fund this next thing, and then just like, have those meetings and those all
281 00:45:24.260 ⇒ 00:45:33.490 Uttam Kumaran: like with our. I think it doesn’t cost much money to to do and to schedule. And then we can really understand, like I don’t say, after like 20 h of working on this.
282 00:45:33.600 ⇒ 00:45:44.460 Brittany Bond: like I’m confident, you know, even in my, that’s exactly what I’m trying to do is get you 1,000 to work on it right?
283 00:45:44.700 ⇒ 00:45:52.239 Brittany Bond: And so you need, you know. Do you have a preference about like, whether we raise that? Or he raises that? And
284 00:45:52.370 ⇒ 00:46:12.950 Uttam Kumaran: if he raises that like, do we want to be in that meeting, you know? Like, yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff. It’s just like, Are you gonna form a company and raise that? Th. This is the problem is he? I would say, in Vc land, though the one thing that happens it it is just like the cartels we’re discussing, and that you can get really like blackballed like
285 00:46:13.770 ⇒ 00:46:23.359 Uttam Kumaran: someone like Scott will send a note to everybody and be like, don’t fund these guys there, you know, they screwed me. And that’s actually like what happens. But that’s the risk.
286 00:46:23.440 ⇒ 00:46:45.649 Brittany Bond: right? I like Scott. He’s again. I wouldn’t have this opportunity if it wasn’t for him. I do think he can provide some value. I just don’t think he can provide as much value as he wants to, you know. If you know, maybe there’s something we structure later, where, like, he’s just an advisor, not on the board. And like, you know, we find someone we want on the board.
287 00:46:45.870 ⇒ 00:46:48.960 Brittany Bond: Yeah, all these things are down the line. I think
288 00:46:49.760 ⇒ 00:46:58.069 Brittany Bond: I think what would be best would be for us to like. Set some parameters of like. We’re willing to move forward with this under.
289 00:46:58.300 ⇒ 00:47:18.469 Brittany Bond: But like, we don’t think we need to start a business, we’d like to really test this idea first, we want this much time and this much money. And these are the roles we want. And these, this is how we see you guys participating like, I think if we can get aligned on what those things are. Then that would allow us to move forward.
290 00:47:18.850 ⇒ 00:47:32.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I think that’s actually the only thing I realize is like, you just have to be really radically transparent. And I think that’s a great route, you know. And I think if we put that on the table and it’s like a Oh, like this is definitely not how we saw it. Then.
291 00:47:32.610 ⇒ 00:47:43.339 Uttam Kumaran: That’s actually, I really happy. So it’s like, learn that out. Now, once we’re in the mix. So yeah, I think that’s a II it’s a great idea, you know.
292 00:47:43.420 ⇒ 00:47:46.839 Brittany Bond: Do do you want to draft something up? Do you want me to draft something up.
293 00:47:47.250 ⇒ 00:48:00.350 Brittany Bond: If can you draft something up? I mean Google, Doc. And then we can just work on it. And then I’m happy to send it, or whatever we want to do. We can send it together. Okay, yeah, that’d be amazing. And then I mean, even outside of this, like.
294 00:48:00.430 ⇒ 00:48:08.670 Uttam Kumaran: I am. The nice thing about my business now is like, I’m working on all types of things, and like, this is just one idea, like
295 00:48:08.740 ⇒ 00:48:17.069 Uttam Kumaran: I would say through me and th and you. Just anything we can build, I think, is totally possible these days. So
296 00:48:17.130 ⇒ 00:48:32.620 Uttam Kumaran: like we, we could take our time and like, think about other ideas. And I and I, I’m really lucky to know someone like you that’s in the business, and I’ve been able to leverage our conversations in that room to call like some. Some of my friends, parents, I found out, are like management consultants, for, like
297 00:48:32.790 ⇒ 00:48:44.119 Uttam Kumaran: large real estate portfolios, for, like Fortune, 500, I’m like, oh, finally, I have a reason to call Mom, and I like, I think I call them like, I’m working on this. And it’s it’s been really fun to do that. And I think.
298 00:48:44.220 ⇒ 00:49:00.560 Uttam Kumaran: this is just one idea. We could totally qualify many ideas. And and I think time is on our side. Because, again, I still think a lot of the talent and AI is really wrapped up in a lot of companies. Still, after 8 months of this technology being open.
299 00:49:00.740 ⇒ 00:49:16.240 Uttam Kumaran: most of my engineering friends have not interacted with it on a developer basis. So it’s just slow. And so for it to be slow, and then for it, for real estate to be such a closed off industry. I think there’s a ton of opportunities. So
300 00:49:16.350 ⇒ 00:49:22.009 Brittany Bond: yeah, if this works or doesn’t work. I think we can still brainstorm other stuff and think about things to work on. So
301 00:49:22.150 ⇒ 00:49:23.580 Brittany Bond: yeah, okay.
302 00:49:24.170 ⇒ 00:49:28.620 Brittany Bond: alright. Well, I will draft that note. I will definitely need your help on it, cause
303 00:49:28.650 ⇒ 00:49:36.030 Brittany Bond: I’m still learning startup. Speak and I’ll try to send something
304 00:49:36.260 ⇒ 00:49:42.810 Brittany Bond: by like tomorrow morning and we can work on it from there and then, whenever we’re comfortable with, we can send it over.
305 00:49:42.940 ⇒ 00:49:44.429 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, perfect.
306 00:49:44.600 ⇒ 00:49:52.260 Brittany Bond: Alright. Thanks for hopping on. I think II just wanted to like, make sure. No, no, no, this is amazing. II just I haven’t
307 00:49:52.260 ⇒ 00:50:21.849 Uttam Kumaran: spent a lot of time thinking about it, just because I didn’t know where it was gonna go. And I was like, if it goes somewhere, I go somewhere. It doesn’t. But to hear that, either, you know. And I know he was like gonna circle to pieces, but actually has legs. And I’m part of those legs. Then, yeah, I think it’s it’s worth kind of bringing everything in the surface. And I think it’ll be a fun conversation, like, you know. So cool. Okay, well, I will. Yeah, I’ll ping you whenever I have something written. Bye.