Meeting Title: Uttam <> Akhila Date: 2023-12-01 Meeting participants: Akhila Athresh, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:12.750 ⇒ 00:00:14.469 Akhila Athresh: Hello!
2 00:00:17.680 ⇒ 00:00:19.089 Akhila Athresh: Hello!
3 00:00:21.280 ⇒ 00:00:22.150 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
4 00:00:22.300 ⇒ 00:00:24.260 Akhila Athresh: Hey! How’s it going?
5 00:00:24.460 ⇒ 00:00:33.509 Akhila Athresh: I am okay. I would say, I’m still like 60 70 but trying to do work
6 00:00:33.830 ⇒ 00:00:51.910 Akhila Athresh: just like normal sickness, or what do you think it is? It’s it’s sinusitis. So every morning I wake up with like a massive like face, pain and headache, and and like runny nose and cough. It’s just very messy.
7 00:00:51.920 ⇒ 00:01:00.019 Uttam Kumaran: I had the same last year where I was. I had like bad, and I was like taking up like all sorts of medication.
8 00:01:00.040 ⇒ 00:01:02.269 Uttam Kumaran: It’s brutal. And my.
9 00:01:02.670 ⇒ 00:01:20.490 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it feels it feels like there’s like, you know, bag of Briggs on your head. And yeah, it’s it’s very annoying, because there is like no real cure for it like you just need to take some anti allergy medications, and
10 00:01:20.490 ⇒ 00:01:39.310 Uttam Kumaran: it I cannot feel better in the afternoon and by night, and next morning it’s back again. So
11 00:01:39.490 ⇒ 00:01:41.279 Uttam Kumaran: like in the past few months.
12 00:01:41.640 ⇒ 00:02:02.019 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just been really busy. I’ve been both like working directly for some clients, and then I’m starting to do a lot of more of like sales to get some more clients. And I’ve been working and like exploring some interesting like product ideas with some people in Austin on like some AI projects. So things are things are going. It’s just getting like.
13 00:02:02.260 ⇒ 00:02:19.809 Uttam Kumaran: like, it’s just getting busier, which is good. It’s just like I’m spending a lot of time developing, which is like where I want it to be after doing like more product stuff for a while. So I’m I’m pretty much like either doing development work or I’m doing sales stuff. But sales isn’t like.
14 00:02:20.440 ⇒ 00:02:31.370 Uttam Kumaran: just like calling people on the phone. It’s like going and meeting people like, II think I try to do it and like a more normal way, which is just like, I asked people whether they need help on stuff.
15 00:02:31.440 ⇒ 00:02:46.670 Akhila Athresh: Okay, so are you like, are you like working on your own. Now, are you working for
16 00:02:46.710 ⇒ 00:02:49.089 Akhila Athresh: insurance, friend?
17 00:02:49.250 ⇒ 00:02:59.210 Akhila Athresh: Who was looking for a way to standardize or scan all the documents?
18 00:02:59.410 ⇒ 00:03:24.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so that’s so. I would say, there’s probably like 3 or 4 of those type of projects where I kind of built prototypes. And I was just like learning a lot about using some of the large language tooling that project. It’s still like it’s still. But some of the technology works as like some new stuff comes out. I’m like implementing it so real path for that, it’s like, either we fund it, build a product or like raise money for it. But
19 00:03:24.990 ⇒ 00:03:54.249 Uttam Kumaran: it’s kinda just like sitting. And and like, I think those have. There’s been a couple of ideas like that where I’ve been people. And we kinda like just build some random stuff, and then I’m kinda like, well, you can go shop this like, since my friend is in insurance, I’m like, well, let’s build a deck. You could tell them the technology pretty much works, and you could go see if anyone wants to like, build it or build it with us, or put some money towards it. So there’s been a couple of interesting ideas like that that I’m like exploring with some people, another.
20 00:03:54.350 ⇒ 00:04:13.189 Uttam Kumaran: so a couple of folks in town here who have like, who have been like really a little bit older, like maybe 55 or 60. But they’ve been like long time founders and ran like public companies. And I’m working with them on like a real estate broker AI real estate. So it’s like really similar to a lot of the stuff that we work, that I’m like, kind of like thinking a lot back on, but
21 00:04:13.250 ⇒ 00:04:19.090 Uttam Kumaran: kind of like doing a lot of like the building layout process like the financial process, and like
22 00:04:19.170 ⇒ 00:04:22.589 Uttam Kumaran: getting that information from people who may need office space.
23 00:04:22.660 ⇒ 00:04:29.969 Uttam Kumaran: And so there’s a couple of ideas like that I’m working on. And I’m I’m also II have 2 clients that I’m working with directly on data stuff. So it’s like snow play
24 00:04:30.140 ⇒ 00:04:35.730 Uttam Kumaran: Dbt stuff. And then. Yeah. So since April, like, I started the company, and then
25 00:04:35.800 ⇒ 00:04:42.299 Uttam Kumaran: we’re still in business. It’s mainly been me. And then I brought Brian in on one project for some work.
26 00:04:42.320 ⇒ 00:04:48.450 Uttam Kumaran: And then. yeah, like as I am able to get more people, I’m just like I caught a call favors. And I’m like
27 00:04:48.740 ⇒ 00:05:02.429 Uttam Kumaran: and like I, I’m like, not a like, I’m like an old person. So I’m like, I’ll just send you money if you want. Can you do this thing. And then I just like have a bunch of friends in my side channel. And then, as I also.
28 00:05:02.450 ⇒ 00:05:08.509 Uttam Kumaran: as I’m doing sales for stuff II kinda like, I’m like, Hey, can you help me like put together like a proof of concept or something?
29 00:05:08.680 ⇒ 00:05:19.330 Uttam Kumaran: Or do we think this is a good project? This is awesome. Yeah, I know. I think this is great. And I feel like
30 00:05:19.440 ⇒ 00:05:33.689 Akhila Athresh: You know, I tried interviewing. I tried interviewing with Fang companies. I made it through like 3 rounds of Google X, the moonshot factory. And I got rejected after that, and I was like, Wait. I thought I did very well.
31 00:05:33.720 ⇒ 00:05:58.039 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m like I’ve been, you know, whatever reaches out to me. I’m just like interviewing but looks like the universe has like something else planned for me, I guess. So. And yeah, for some reason, I’m still not getting laid off at rework.
32 00:05:58.040 ⇒ 00:06:03.890 Akhila Athresh: Yeah, like, even after the you know, I thought with the bankruptcy announcement, they’re gonna lay people off, but
33 00:06:03.890 ⇒ 00:06:09.860 turns out that the bankruptcy might actually be good for us, because now we can say
34 00:06:09.860 ⇒ 00:06:34.200 Akhila Athresh: we are not going to pay the debt, or we are not gonna pay the rent. And yeah, no, no, it’s actually like, you know, the new CEO is like he’s. They’re very confident that this is gonna work, because immediately they’ve written off 3 billion in debt that they had to pay. Because if you’re, you know you get protection from the bankruptcy code
35 00:06:34.270 ⇒ 00:06:39.580 and a lot of landlords, you know. I would say majority of them are open to restructuring.
36 00:06:39.690 ⇒ 00:06:52.389 Akhila Athresh: But there are some who don’t want to, but with this they can say that they’re not going to be able to meet the lease obligations. So. But I saw that I saw that for some of the buildings
37 00:06:52.530 ⇒ 00:06:59.619 Uttam Kumaran: they’re just like getting rid of the leases. What happens like? Are they just like that just like a okay like
38 00:06:59.830 ⇒ 00:07:20.210 Uttam Kumaran: bankrupt.
39 00:07:20.230 ⇒ 00:07:49.449 Akhila Athresh: So here’s the thing, right? Doesn’t have cash to pay these people. So the quote is going to decide the order and the priority in which these people have to get paid through cash or through some other means like they’ll probably get equity in the company or they will change, they’ll be forced to change the lease agreement to be more like a revenue share agreement, so that we would pay them over time. So the thing is what what it does is like at the quote.
40 00:07:49.450 ⇒ 00:07:52.799 Akhila Athresh: no court is going to protect. Obviously, we work.
41 00:07:52.800 ⇒ 00:08:14.259 Akhila Athresh: and we know they know how much money we have, and they’re going to use that money to pay. Obviously, some people. And the quote is going to decide what. So it’s like. It’s not in our hands anymore. It’s like the court has to decide. But Ceos, confident that this will go our way because they immediately wrote off the 3 billion debt, which is like a huge thing.
42 00:08:14.260 ⇒ 00:08:24.330 Akhila Athresh: was like wearing down on the balance sheet. So we’ll see. I mean, I like, I said, like our boss and the CTO. They all seem very confident, very happy, and I’m like
43 00:08:24.350 ⇒ 00:08:31.220 Akhila Athresh: this is unusual cause. I’ve seen so much like I may be, you know, biased towards being a little cautious. But
44 00:08:31.230 ⇒ 00:08:53.859 Akhila Athresh: anyway, I’m you know I’m like, only if I’m getting any interview offers I’m just interviewing, I’m not actively looking out. But it looks like I will probably continue to stay at least another quarter to but that also means I will. You know II will have some time, if you need any help with like DVD stuff or happy to help.
45 00:08:53.980 ⇒ 00:09:00.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s that’s amazing. I mean, like again, the that’s that’s even like, even for me, I don’t.
46 00:09:00.880 ⇒ 00:09:09.919 Uttam Kumaran: The work I’m doing on the data side is like really pretty easy, I think the only I would say the complication. As it isn’t actually very technical. It’s just like
47 00:09:09.930 ⇒ 00:09:14.210 Uttam Kumaran: stakeholder. I have to communicate with clients. Not to do. Invoicing
48 00:09:14.270 ⇒ 00:09:16.780 Uttam Kumaran: like that. Shit is like is like
49 00:09:16.830 ⇒ 00:09:32.000 Uttam Kumaran: that’s like another problem. But the actual work is like by normal work. And I would say anything, it’s much easier because we work and it just gets advanced. And so the problems you’re working on are not like setting up models and stuff like that. It’s like.
50 00:09:32.100 ⇒ 00:09:39.540 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, shit! This. This really optimized thing is taking a long time to run like I don’t even know where I would start. The stuff I’m doing is just like a matter of like.
51 00:09:39.660 ⇒ 00:09:55.290 Akhila Athresh: how are you getting more business?
52 00:09:55.680 ⇒ 00:10:08.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Great question. I feel like, I’m not on an interview so I like, I don’t think I’m really like amazing at sales, and I really like don’t particularly like
53 00:10:08.610 ⇒ 00:10:18.850 Uttam Kumaran: doing cold outreach. So right now I’m kind of exhausting everything that’s like kind of like warm meeting. The first thing I did was just go and like, talk to everyone. Say, I’m doing this thing
54 00:10:19.090 ⇒ 00:10:35.140 Uttam Kumaran: if you need help. Or do you know anyone that needs help, and that got me some business. Now I’m kind of like doing it more targeted where I’m like meeting people in Austin or meeting people in New York virtually. And I’m like, Do you need help with work? And I’m kind of like establishing that like, if you hear the word Snowflake.
55 00:10:35.180 ⇒ 00:10:39.080 Uttam Kumaran: think about me kinda like trying to do that
56 00:10:39.100 ⇒ 00:11:07.579 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m like, kinda exhaust a lot of those which I think there’s still some really good avenues. And even through a lot of those again. It’s like you don’t. I don’t do sales, which is like I don’t like. I don’t think this is a sales conversation, but at the same time, if you, if you have a friend that’s like a bi manager somewhere, and it’s like I need. I need someone like you to do that you’re like, well, I’m working here like my my home is doing this, and that’s so. That’s that’s what sales is to me at the moment, just telling everybody what I do, and then
57 00:11:07.580 ⇒ 00:11:22.439 Uttam Kumaran: also like through meeting people here and being able to kind of be independent people I met in like Vc. And other things have introduced me to multiple people. And then through that, I’ve also been talking to a lot of people about AI work. And so my hope. I actually want to pivot
58 00:11:22.540 ⇒ 00:11:30.349 Uttam Kumaran: more of the business towards AI, and like language model related projects, because I think they’re more lucrative. I think it’s
59 00:11:30.430 ⇒ 00:11:41.770 Uttam Kumaran: kind of shiny and fun. And then also, I think, like a lot of the work I’ve done in data is really complementary to that but that stuff is like, really new. And so I can’t
60 00:11:41.930 ⇒ 00:11:44.880 Uttam Kumaran: advertised like the way I advertise data which is like, I’ve done
61 00:11:45.020 ⇒ 00:11:53.100 Uttam Kumaran: this like 10 times. I can think I’ve done AI 10 times a lot of stuff is like introductory projects. But I’m using the data work as like
62 00:11:53.330 ⇒ 00:12:01.100 Uttam Kumaran: the door stopper to like, open the door and be like. Not only can we do your data if you want to also work on AI projects like, let’s assist.
63 00:12:01.350 ⇒ 00:12:13.230 Uttam Kumaran: And then on the money side like, I’m trying. I’m right now, charging rates around like 1, 5,200 an hour, and so that I’m trying to get increased to and to even give you context of like, the economics
64 00:12:13.360 ⇒ 00:12:18.000 Uttam Kumaran: like to run the business itself. There’s money involved to like
65 00:12:18.010 ⇒ 00:12:37.219 Uttam Kumaran: the fees that I need to that like. So when I build a people there’s like a loss of fees I’m paying for like a co working space. There’s all these different like I’m paying for Zoom slack blah blah blah like just like random stuff. So as an entity, the entity itself has expenses. And then everybody that works there’s like a cut.
66 00:12:37.250 ⇒ 00:12:41.859 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m also trying to think of interesting ways on, like, how can I bring people into projects
67 00:12:42.000 ⇒ 00:12:52.420 Uttam Kumaran: and like make it really lucrative, structured deals where hopefully, we can get longer term engagements, but also like client selection is really important, like, I’m also, I’m not like.
68 00:12:52.730 ⇒ 00:13:05.570 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not only bringing value to the business. I’m also working the contracts. So I think, typically in consultancy like you have. There’s salespeople. And then there’s people who don’t do execution. So those are pure expenses. They’re payroll.
69 00:13:05.780 ⇒ 00:13:27.709 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t wanna hire any. I don’t want any of those people. I frankly think, like I can contain and manage that. And I can selectively bring in business help as needed. But in no way do I want like a full time, go to market like everybody needs to be engineering and like I’ll eat the rest, and like, you know, which which has been fun to like.
70 00:13:27.710 ⇒ 00:13:45.980 Uttam Kumaran: do business that way, like I don’t think I because I have. I don’t think I could just be like, I call my friend about that where I called it. She’s a designer, i’m, like.
71 00:13:46.180 ⇒ 00:14:05.630 Uttam Kumaran: I was just a podcast about like designer. But I was like calling. I’m like, you know how artists have collectives where they like, they share like the space or materials or connections, but then, like everybody, makes money, if we all do a deal, it’s I know there. There’s some things about our business that you can’t escape.
72 00:14:05.650 ⇒ 00:14:08.710 Uttam Kumaran: but I would love it to be more like that. And I think
73 00:14:08.750 ⇒ 00:14:21.809 Uttam Kumaran: the reason more businesses aren’t like that. It’s just like bad incentives, like bad actors and like weirdos. I feel like the people who do the most amount of quality work
74 00:14:21.850 ⇒ 00:14:50.349 Akhila Athresh: are not compensated correctly in a hierarchical or and I feel like even today in this world where so many things is already automated, like being a generalist, I think will. Should you know, we should build a company of generalists who are who are good at like one or 2 things that very specialized. But they’re also like generalists. I feel like that adds a lot of value right? Like one person can go bring clients like, you know, get some help from other folks on the team.
75 00:14:50.350 ⇒ 00:15:08.940 Akhila Athresh: But we’re actually just bringing, you know plans for the business. So I, yeah, I think this is a great idea. And you know, it’s so funny because I was every every start up that’s like early stage startup that reaches out to me, and who cannot pay me like the salary that I want. I’m like I can do. I can do some consulting work for you guys if you’re interested.
76 00:15:08.970 ⇒ 00:15:14.209 Akhila Athresh: Yeah. But they all like zoom, they want full time people. But if anybody says that, you know they want
77 00:15:14.370 ⇒ 00:15:27.700 Akhila Athresh: they’re open to like hiring like a consultancy to do the work and stuff I will definitely let you know. Cause yeah. And I know. I know you know my former co-worker from
78 00:15:27.790 ⇒ 00:15:46.300 Akhila Athresh: goldman, like he just quit his job at this. Ml. Start up, call attentive, and he wants to do something similar to. Yeah, he’s he’s someone I call like an all-rounder right? Like he is great at communicating great at coding. And he he’s good at business. So
79 00:15:46.300 ⇒ 00:16:04.350 Akhila Athresh: yeah, even he was like, you know, thinking, where do I get started? How do I get people? So I feel like it might be easier for all the Generalists to come together, and, like go, bring your clients, bring it to the company, and share knowledge, and share ideas, and and see how we can help each other. I feel.
80 00:16:04.390 ⇒ 00:16:06.879 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. And it doesn’t have to be
81 00:16:07.050 ⇒ 00:16:30.830 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think it doesn’t have to be so formal and that like it could be like so Co. Pre meaning for me. It’s like, if I could bring people on a project I will, but like I only have the luxury to do that. It’s able, like my my apartment like. So that’s why it’s like it’s kind of like a compounding thing there. But also, at the same time. I also, we’ve worked with a plenty of designers, marketers
82 00:16:30.930 ⇒ 00:16:47.889 Uttam Kumaran: like other executives like, I don’t think we need to, I would, and that’s where that it becomes fun, because you can say, like, I’m part of like an organization that can do many things. And the only thing that I say is that like there’s so only a people like I,
83 00:16:47.890 ⇒ 00:17:09.589 Uttam Kumaran: the risk in client services is delivering a bad product. And that doesn’t mean like the thing doesn’t work. It’s mean that they don’t like you, or they don’t like the way you communicate and like. And that’s where I feel really lucky is like a work with people like you and a lot of people who I’m like we could get yelled at. We’d be like, Okay, I can’t say that for a lot of people who can’t like take that sort of pressure.
84 00:17:09.619 ⇒ 00:17:22.679 Uttam Kumaran: But also it’s the nice thing about my business is like, it’s so lucrative, right? It’s like, I’m saying, if we I’m just now charging 200 an hour like to put my contacts 70 bucks an hour. Full time is a hundred 50 grand
85 00:17:22.950 ⇒ 00:17:28.910 Uttam Kumaran: annually. So it’s like, really, really lucrative. And
86 00:17:29.090 ⇒ 00:17:40.890 Uttam Kumaran: I also think that we deserve that sort of charge like, think about on one company. If you’re dedicating your mind to one thing like we have like tons and tons of experience that isn’t being monetized
87 00:17:40.950 ⇒ 00:18:07.069 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like you have a ton of Goldman experience that probably isn’t being marked like my whole background of like a holistic background. You may hire me for data, but like I’m gonna call because I’m cause I’ve signed business development stuff with 5 train. I cannot do sales call. Oh, like I’ve negotiated vendors like you’re not hiring me just for that. And that’s that’s how I can justify. I even me going to bed with like knowing that I’m charging that much. I’m totally content, because, like
88 00:18:07.270 ⇒ 00:18:21.780 Akhila Athresh: we’re delivering that like easily delivering and have been delivering that value. And the companies we working for are making that margin on top of us. You know, it’s funny, because, you know.
89 00:18:21.950 ⇒ 00:18:34.230 Akhila Athresh: yeah, even at work. Like I’ve we’ve been talking to Sigma for a potential Vi, shift from tableau cloud. But we also have relationship with like table people there all these like relationships. I feel like
90 00:18:34.260 ⇒ 00:18:56.599 Akhila Athresh: it’s just I just add them on Linkedin. We talk and say, let’s keep connected on them. And just black hole right? Like I wanna put all of that to use. And actually, in fact, like I feel like at the end of it, I wanna help people. And for me, this is gonna sound very tech growing. But money is definitely after part, because I really wanna like learn help people. And I think I find that more rewarding, and
91 00:18:56.600 ⇒ 00:19:07.209 Akhila Athresh: it’s great. If I can get some money alongside, I’ll I’ll have a full time job to take care of my bills. But this is more to like, you know, for knowledge sharing. And
92 00:19:07.270 ⇒ 00:19:25.869 Akhila Athresh: I don’t know. I just feel like data engineering, or the engineering community in general is entirely built on open source and knowledge sharing right? So I’m very motivated by that. So having someone who but historically, I’ve had issues with people who are heavily technical and just hit the business side of it.
93 00:19:25.870 ⇒ 00:19:45.090 Uttam Kumaran: which you know, sounds great, but it becomes very dogmatic to work with them, you know, at some point. We have to make money right? You have to get money, and that’s where I’ve made money more. I made more money in the last like this year than my last than
94 00:19:45.210 ⇒ 00:20:11.289 Uttam Kumaran: again. That’s not. That’s not the question. But it’s also like we need that leverage to be able to go. Do this for more people. And also, believe me, even today I’ve called. I’ve had 5 different meetings with people, none of whom are paying me. They all just ask me for like data. Someone’s like, I’m buying melano like, what is it about? I’m doing this. I’m like, I’m not gonna charge you for that. But that builds goodwill, which means when they eventually meet someone
95 00:20:11.400 ⇒ 00:20:22.069 Uttam Kumaran: they’re gonna call me. And I really. And I really believe, like, that’s what’s gonna happen. And so there’s some stuff I have to charge for, and of course, if some people are like using it on my time. But I’m not someone who’s like.
96 00:20:22.450 ⇒ 00:20:49.010 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I won’t like have a conversation couple of conversations with you or help you talk through something, because I know it’s gonna come, the business gonna come back to us. And then it’s also you’re totally right, like all the relationships I made like with Scott, from Snowflake. With all these people I called all of them, and I was like, this is what I’m doing. They all sent me so much help, whether it’s like talk to this person, or let me set up a meeting with this person, and I hear some sources, and like again, I didn’t initially meet those people to like eventually
97 00:20:49.370 ⇒ 00:21:10.070 Uttam Kumaran: take advantage of them or anything, but they’re all willing to help. Because I’m like, I’m I’m selling snowflake, bringing you guys good custom like, so it’s a really weird, mutual understanding. And then you’re totally right. All the people we met along the way are now potential people to do business with. Like, I still talk to Weinberg all the time. I still talk to Tom B. All the time, and I’m like, I’m like.
98 00:21:10.160 ⇒ 00:21:16.529 Uttam Kumaran: let’s just work on stuff, and it’s cool, and that I rep, I don’t represent like a brand where I have to ask.
99 00:21:16.590 ⇒ 00:21:34.250 Akhila Athresh: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I was telling this to someone like who things crazy things crazy that I’m I’m still with. We work, and I haven’t left, and I’m like the the network of people that I have met at wework. It’s probably
100 00:21:34.250 ⇒ 00:21:58.270 Akhila Athresh: make up for all the money that I haven’t made. No, I agree, like I credit Brian for, like, yeah, I owe Brian like a sizable amount of money. Now he’s helped me. But at the same time, like we found, I find ways to be like. Now I feel like I’m in a position to get business, and then, like, I’m like the first 5 people over the car people I work with.
101 00:21:58.670 ⇒ 00:22:08.300 Uttam Kumaran: and I have no problem giving that money. It’s like that’s like, not even in the question. And for me. I don’t really have. I don’t really know where this business and stuff is gonna go. But
102 00:22:08.530 ⇒ 00:22:15.000 Uttam Kumaran: I literally wrote, I wrote down like a set of like principles when I started the business, and one of them is literally just like
103 00:22:15.110 ⇒ 00:22:20.769 Uttam Kumaran: like work, like one of the big things is like work with cool people and work on cool stuff.
104 00:22:20.830 ⇒ 00:22:38.810 Uttam Kumaran: and like trying to do that as much as possible. And then the O, the other thing is like, try to work less over time like the goal. Here isn’t work like 9,000 h weeks. It’s like, II want to really have like, I wanna really have some leverage and time. I want a lot of the business to be like like automated. And like.
105 00:22:39.110 ⇒ 00:22:53.469 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I also wanna work with interesting clients like, let’s say we work with again. If we all pool our experience just like 30 Logos that I’m just like we can go to any firm, be like we’ve done work for all these people collectively, you at least need to afford as a phone call.
106 00:22:53.690 ⇒ 00:22:57.419 Uttam Kumaran: right? And so that. That’s the leverage we have. And I just think, like
107 00:22:57.510 ⇒ 00:23:07.249 Uttam Kumaran: there’s been successful formats of collectives. But it has to be really high trust, like it can’t. And that’s where that’s where it’s like. I don’t know
108 00:23:07.340 ⇒ 00:23:16.079 Uttam Kumaran: how things work like I always get nervous when things become monetary, especially when you do business with friends. It’s not that I get nervous about like the way I’m gonna act.
109 00:23:16.230 ⇒ 00:23:25.640 Uttam Kumaran: I actually just get nervous about the way other people are gonna act. And I also I get nervous about like if I become someone’s revenue stream, and then I fuck up like. But
110 00:23:25.730 ⇒ 00:23:50.529 Akhila Athresh: I think that every person who gets into business, and who has a network of friends that they work with, goes through the same, you know, fears like or what happened, what will happen to the relationship. So I think you’re all adults, and we will obviously hoping that we’ll all communicate and resolve issues as and when it rises, and
111 00:23:50.530 ⇒ 00:24:06.629 Akhila Athresh: it’s not going to be like this thing? Where, oh, my God! Like should I bring this up? Should I not? And just cause this person? And you want to work with people who are like. Hopefully, we’ll say that. But also again, if you act, and if you act really honest and I don’t have anything to worry like. I don’t.
112 00:24:06.960 ⇒ 00:24:15.440 Uttam Kumaran: It’s only when you act in a way that’s like you’re hiding something, cause I also need to be pretty clear, because there’s been a plenty of deals where I’ve asked for help from people, and it’s like
113 00:24:15.900 ⇒ 00:24:20.230 Uttam Kumaran: they said, it’s not. They said they don’t want to go through with the contract for one reason or another.
114 00:24:20.300 ⇒ 00:24:28.069 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m like, Okay, well, I feel bad. I waste this person time. But instead, I’m like, Well, let’s take that. I’m gonna package that and sell, try to sell that to other people.
115 00:24:28.290 ⇒ 00:24:51.559 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the other thing. And then also, I only I don’t think in a previous capacity I was able to work on like the latest technology. But now I’m like this weekend I’m playing around with like snowflake marketplace listings. I’m able to do like interesting stuff and just slap the company, name on it and be like, that’s a company like like, let’s give me access to whatever and like people like, Oh, you’re the CEO. And I’m like, Yeah, yeah, I’m like.
116 00:24:51.560 ⇒ 00:25:12.240 Uttam Kumaran: no, we’re definitely happy to, you know. Get started, like if you if there’s a slack channel where you guys are like chatting about things, and there’s a report that I can look at, or whatever like. However, you need me to contribute more than happy to get started. Right now, I’d say
117 00:25:12.590 ⇒ 00:25:41.540 Uttam Kumaran: I’m going to India last week of December. I will be back, Jan. 15. So realistically, I’d say that’s when I would be able to like commit some time. Every if anything comes up that even seems like remotely possible. I’ll just text it to you like it, I would say, don’t worry. It’s not gonna be like I like, I need work tomorrow. Everything is like, so it’s just like I’ll be like. W. Look, I got this inbound, or I’m talking to this person. It kind of looks like this.
118 00:25:42.020 ⇒ 00:25:43.919 Uttam Kumaran: What do we think like? That’s
119 00:25:44.060 ⇒ 00:26:08.129 Akhila Athresh: that’s pretty much the extent of how this operation is running. Totally. That’s totally cool, I think what I can. What I’m saying is that after after this month I’ll be able to give you an estimate of how many hours I can spend per week. If there’s something that comes along your way so that way you can, you know I’ll keep my word, and if I’m not able to give those hours I will let you know upfront that this is going to be hard.
120 00:26:08.130 ⇒ 00:26:29.000 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I think I think it’s definitely exciting. If you can send me some initial love to take a look at it and see how I can help you to stop, and I’ll even share you. We put together like through this last 6 months. I’ve been pitching so much AI stuff to people. It’s just like
121 00:26:29.300 ⇒ 00:26:31.270 Uttam Kumaran: the data sales process. It’s like.
122 00:26:31.350 ⇒ 00:26:38.080 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like good, decent conversion rate, like I could talk about everything. The AI stuff is like people don’t really know what they want.
123 00:26:38.080 ⇒ 00:26:53.259 Akhila Athresh: I don’t really know how long the technology is. Gonna take, like, I’m not too confident. So it’s been a mix people are building so many things that’s getting very quickly outdated by newer and newer versions. Yeah, I know. So so like, I don’t know even
124 00:26:53.260 ⇒ 00:27:08.550 Akhila Athresh: we need to keep that in mind as to like, are we building for like now? And it’s going to be outdated in 3 months, so it should be built for the future and think about a more long term solution. So that’s actually a really interesting challenge that I feel like a lot of people are facing
125 00:27:08.610 ⇒ 00:27:19.540 Akhila Athresh: and I know everybody wants to say they’re using generative AI. But we need to see or identify areas where it will unlock the most value. And it could be something as boring as
126 00:27:19.780 ⇒ 00:27:44.690 Uttam Kumaran: how do we find organizational knowledge on the Company’s Wikipedia page? Which is, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Or like, or like scraping Pdfs right? Like the work I was doing in May I? Someone just released the thing where they’re like, oh, we’re using like 3 different methods now to get it. I saw another thing that came up today was, there’s this new Gpt Vision, or something that can actually look at the tables in the Pdf and extract those like.
127 00:27:44.770 ⇒ 00:27:56.900 Uttam Kumaran: it’s evolving. But I also think the one thing that just because, like, I’m like, Okay, cool. Maybe I haven’t done projects. But people are talking to me. And because I’ve been talking people again, it becomes a thing like someone hears about AI.
128 00:27:56.960 ⇒ 00:28:02.850 Uttam Kumaran: I get like a phone call. And I’m like, not. I’m not here like, I’m not doing this full time. But like.
129 00:28:02.890 ⇒ 00:28:09.020 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I’m realizing, like, Oh, I’ve been consistently reading about this since like February.
130 00:28:09.100 ⇒ 00:28:22.939 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? Maybe, like, in a decent position to give advice. And then that’s been getting me in conversations with like, could you build it with your team? And I’m like, Okay, and then they’re like, what would that cost? And I’m like, Okay, and that’s where it’s like, it’s really great to be like
131 00:28:23.110 ⇒ 00:28:28.069 Uttam Kumaran: I. There’s no way I could do that myself. but I think I can charge like
132 00:28:28.290 ⇒ 00:28:35.950 Uttam Kumaran: 50 grand a month, and so if I’m able to get that like who’s up to come. Try this. And even additionally.
133 00:28:36.070 ⇒ 00:28:51.529 Uttam Kumaran: I actually don’t. And I don’t know. II I’d be interested in your in your opinion. But like I’m not really in this business to like scale this, like, I kind of want to do it until I kind of, I’m like, Okay, like, it’s too much, and then we just work with the
134 00:28:51.680 ⇒ 00:29:03.820 Uttam Kumaran: 5 or so clients. And then if we, if we want to take another client on, they need to pay more, and we can drop someone off. And then we use just like the everybody gets paid. And then we collectively try to build something that like
135 00:29:03.860 ⇒ 00:29:10.300 Uttam Kumaran: can make money without the service work, or we just go work for more interesting client like, I have no interest in being like.
136 00:29:11.120 ⇒ 00:29:18.809 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, doing business pretty much every way I’ve been involved in for the past. No interest in that. I just wanna like work with a couple people I could trust
137 00:29:18.890 ⇒ 00:29:21.109 Uttam Kumaran: do point solutions.
138 00:29:21.260 ⇒ 00:29:24.359 Uttam Kumaran: And then just Bill, and then like, be known for doing that
139 00:29:24.620 ⇒ 00:29:41.500 Uttam Kumaran: don’t need any. I don’t really need don’t really need anything else right. But the thing the thing I am really opinionated on is like, I want us to move like an accenture would move like I want us to move like an Ogilvie, or like a very like high class design agency would move, which is like we do things in days
140 00:29:41.500 ⇒ 00:30:34.299 Akhila Athresh: you know. Add in delays, in my opinion. So it’s more like, okay, it’s more like a hackathon that you have to do. But a good quality solution, not like a habit where you get paid triple what you’re making like 200 an hour like. It’s the best hackathon on Earth
141 00:30:34.300 ⇒ 00:30:45.019 Uttam Kumaran: T-shirts and candies and whatnot.
142 00:30:45.020 ⇒ 00:30:54.549 Uttam Kumaran: The collective’s like knowledge and references and resources like that’s the way it should be, because I try to think of like
143 00:30:54.650 ⇒ 00:31:18.859 Uttam Kumaran: highest leverage things. And though the lowest leverage thing I could do is like. Just go work full time somewhere, but that thing is guaranteed like I don’t have to do any like invoicing or sales. This is closest, probably to the highest leverage thing, if not like just starting a company. But this I have to like. I had to do all this contract blah blah blah! But like those I knew. Those problems weren’t gonna be hard because it’s business like
144 00:31:19.040 ⇒ 00:31:24.389 Uttam Kumaran: it’s business people. They’re not like that smart. But what I did realize is the hard part is like
145 00:31:24.720 ⇒ 00:31:37.409 Uttam Kumaran: the parallel processing. Like how many balls may be in the air, the hard part is like the concurrency, not individual, like every individual thread on the business side is pretty easy. It’s like transactions, lawyers, whatever.
146 00:31:37.790 ⇒ 00:31:42.609 Uttam Kumaran: but like having to do all that is what’s difficult. But
147 00:31:42.680 ⇒ 00:31:46.290 Uttam Kumaran: I think, though, that all can be like fairly automated. I just like
148 00:31:46.440 ⇒ 00:31:52.199 Uttam Kumaran: slowly getting around like figuring that out. And then all the money I make is goes just goes back into like
149 00:31:52.290 ⇒ 00:32:03.889 Uttam Kumaran: pretty much goes back into business, whether it’s like, Oh, I need to get somebody to help us with some sales stuff. Oh, I need to pay a bunch of different services, like, I don’t. Yeah, that’s all. It’s that’s all it is
150 00:32:04.030 ⇒ 00:32:16.119 Akhila Athresh: on the clients that you have like. Do they have their own like. Let’s say, cloud infrastructure where you’re building or you’re paying for stuff. You build it on your stuff and then like, hand it over to them. How is that working right now?
151 00:32:16.120 ⇒ 00:32:35.060 Uttam Kumaran: II have everybody use. Typically, everybody puts a card down like their their card. I said I could pay for it, cause I, and then I can invoice cause I would just take the. I just take the points. But it’s like it’s like buying dinner for somebody. It’s like, that’s the same deal. But most for the most part they’re like we’ll just take it. But again, it’s
152 00:32:35.060 ⇒ 00:32:43.749 Uttam Kumaran: I pretty much have been running Pbt. On free cause, like I’ve been able. I don’t have too many models, and I’m like, I just find a way to stay below the limit, a new limit.
153 00:32:43.750 ⇒ 00:33:09.990 Uttam Kumaran: and then Snowflake. And then I’ve been using light dash because it’s like almost like looker pretty much. And it’s 600 bucks a month for Vi. And then been like able to run with that on the like. I think we’re gonna everything. For the most part, I come into a place where they’re they’re also trusting us to do vendor choices, which is great, because I’ll tell them like, here’s why we work with them. Here’s why, if you were to hire somebody after me. Why, this is like a good vendor to select
154 00:33:09.990 ⇒ 00:33:33.050 Uttam Kumaran: random thing that my cousin works at. It’s like an actual company brain wash like a whole generation of companies to move under from tableau. If we can do that, I think I would have succeeded in my life goal in mind. Yeah, I spent so long refreshing
155 00:33:34.160 ⇒ 00:33:44.390 Akhila Athresh: the CEO wants to move away from salesforce.
156 00:33:44.650 ⇒ 00:34:11.620 Akhila Athresh: That’s the that’s the so anything that that goes in the direction that happy because salesforce is just too expensive. And like II think, that also not very happy with the whole customization that that they have for salesforce. So it’s good that we are finally moving away. But that means I will get some knowledge on Sigma, and how we can potentially, you know vet that window and see how how it is to work with them.
157 00:34:11.620 ⇒ 00:34:28.709 Akhila Athresh: I’ll keep you posted on how that goes. But yeah, meanwhile send all the whatever you can share. Just share it with me, and I’ll review the holidays, and I’ll come back to you after my India trip and let you know how many hours I can spend.
158 00:34:28.820 ⇒ 00:34:50.430 Akhila Athresh: Yeah, I’ll send you. I’ll send you even similar stuff on the AI side that we’re working on. And then the other thing that’s been fun. That I’ve been doing is I’ve been recording all my Zoom calls like this call is getting recorded. But I’m not like posting this on Youtube. I’ve
159 00:34:50.717 ⇒ 00:34:59.330 Uttam Kumaran: been playing around with all the Zoom AI tools where it like does auto transcription. Because I wanna, I wanna vectorize all my, I wanna index, all my calls.
160 00:34:59.630 ⇒ 00:35:18.149 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna indirect all my calls, all my emails, all the slack, all the internal dots. And then we just have like a bot that like, and we can conversation with cause I was thinking, like, if we don’t do it as a firm, my business isn’t 50% run by AI. How could I possibly be selling
161 00:35:18.660 ⇒ 00:35:21.790 Uttam Kumaran: that? Right? So I’m like, slowly, I’m like, Okay, how do I like
162 00:35:21.940 ⇒ 00:35:36.560 Uttam Kumaran: start using it every day and get more familiar? I mean I use gpt like every day. II use Vs Co. Pilot for 50 of my stuff. Sometimes I don’t even. I’m like, what metrics do I need I just press tab, and I add.
163 00:35:36.560 ⇒ 00:35:52.729 Uttam Kumaran: without them, you know, I would get stuck in this like quarters clock, and that is a ripe
164 00:35:52.870 ⇒ 00:36:11.549 Akhila Athresh: chorus block is like, you know, you’re looking at your like. What do I? Where do I start? What do I start? How do I debug? And I feel like that state of mind is perfect for you to pick up your phone and watch Youtube or Instagram or something. What? What? Copilot
165 00:36:11.550 ⇒ 00:36:33.209 Akhila Athresh: I use it.
166 00:36:33.210 ⇒ 00:36:36.059 Uttam Kumaran: Have you? Have you done? Have you done terraform?
167 00:36:36.300 ⇒ 00:36:44.679 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to do. I’m trying to have like a terraform.
168 00:36:44.810 ⇒ 00:36:51.989 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know careful script or something. I’ve never done it before, but I’m I want to try and do it, cause I set up Snowflake with our back.
169 00:36:52.360 ⇒ 00:37:02.450 Uttam Kumaran: I’m setting up dbt, I did it twice and like, I don’t wanna. I do not want to do it at third time, because it’s the same thing over and over. And I just wanna.
170 00:37:02.530 ⇒ 00:37:13.650 Uttam Kumaran: But then someone I called, oh, you should put that on the terraform thing I’m like, okay, let me let me look it up. I’ve heard it before. I’ve never actually worked.
171 00:37:26.700 ⇒ 00:37:29.889 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So we would like, stand up everything
172 00:37:30.090 ⇒ 00:37:33.130 Uttam Kumaran: that we need again. The stuff I’m doing is like.
173 00:37:33.220 ⇒ 00:37:43.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m like setting up like a couple of warehouses for people couple of roles. Surface account rules. Dbt, the same nonsense. Cbt. Is like even worse than cell phones like
174 00:37:43.060 ⇒ 00:38:06.749 Akhila Athresh: you’re gonna you’re gonna hit me for this. But I’d say, keep an open mind and look at parishes 5 x, because it’s exactly what he’s doing right? We? Yeah, he was trying to sell the product to us, but we were like, we are already in a big mess of tools. But his whole thing is, we provide you the entire stack for you to get started with anything we have vendor relationships
175 00:38:06.750 ⇒ 00:38:25.899 Akhila Athresh: like they work with. Dbt. Fightran Airbus. Not there but some other tool I forget. And then on the Bi side, they have relationship with Sigma and a whole bunch of people. So they go to a, they go to a company like an early state startup. And they’re like, Okay, you guys don’t have the budget to hire a full data team.
176 00:38:25.900 ⇒ 00:38:51.799 Akhila Athresh: So what we’re gonna do is give you a 5 x account right? And they pick what the stack would look like right? And they get one bill on the 5 X platform so that they are building all of these automations. Where from that 5 x Ui, you can go to Dbt. Cloud, you can go. And you. They log all of the events in 5 x platform. So that way, one single entry point to like all of the construction you need.
177 00:38:51.800 ⇒ 00:39:05.819 Akhila Athresh: So with data form and things like that infrastructure as a code, there’s still a lot of configuration. You’d have to do right. So with Fivex, they’re very. What is good about is that they’re very focused just on the data stack.
178 00:39:06.050 ⇒ 00:39:29.360 Akhila Athresh: They don’t care about anything else. Just the data stack. And obviously they’ll eventually bring in AI tools as well, but it’s mostly to get started with a snowflake account, a Dbt. Account and fightron, or whatever you pick and and a bi dash, but the basics right, they will deploy and they will also give you engineers to work with if you if you’re a startup, and if you’re looking for it. So I feel like
179 00:39:29.590 ⇒ 00:39:36.280 Akhila Athresh: I don’t know how, but there is some overlap between what you’re doing and what they are doing like. Maybe you don’t have to.
180 00:39:36.710 ⇒ 00:39:56.110 Akhila Athresh: You don’t have to worry about setting up the infrastructure. You can probably use Fivex for it, and you can focus more on solving the problem as opposed to figuring out the infrastructure part of it. So take a look at it. And and like even I was like, I’ve heard very mixed reviews about that. So I work with him, and he seemed I’d say
181 00:39:56.340 ⇒ 00:40:03.299 Akhila Athresh: I’d say there are areas where I still find him a little obnoxious, but for the most part I think he has changed from what he was before.
182 00:40:03.400 ⇒ 00:40:25.320 Akhila Athresh: And his product seems to be doing really well. They’re they’re making money. So we’re almost like, okay, not not too bad. And from the demo that I saw it was pretty impressive, like they have a Ui with one single entry point to all of the tools in your data. Stack. They it logs all of the security events and the same things, and very seems very easy to manage. So
183 00:40:25.320 ⇒ 00:40:39.079 Akhila Athresh: so maybe it’s worth trying to just use them for the beginning setup. Yeah, just see. I mean, you don’t have to. Obviously like, say, yes, but I feel like if that automates some of the work infrastructure work that you’re doing that could save you some time as well.
184 00:40:39.530 ⇒ 00:40:51.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, no, I will. And it’s it’s gonna be interesting to see like how the all the clients ship up to be if they’re all gonna be data people like, or if they’re gonna be more AI stuff,
185 00:40:51.080 ⇒ 00:41:04.570 Uttam Kumaran: cause, the data stuff is really predictable, like. it’s just like bottling work. And again, as we model for the many people we now have, like a good code base of stuff to reference. And also like 5 chain and Dvt already have a lot of packages pretty much open. So
186 00:41:04.680 ⇒ 00:41:10.319 Akhila Athresh: yeah, I sent you the sent you the link. Take a look. They have some real world companies using it.
187 00:41:10.760 ⇒ 00:41:16.700 Akhila Athresh: And yeah, take a look at the product, demo to have it. Or you can ask him for that.
188 00:41:16.710 ⇒ 00:41:17.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
189 00:41:19.240 ⇒ 00:41:29.669 Akhila Athresh: I’m loving it. Walnut Creek is amazing. No complaints here. Yeah. I went to a really good thai place in Walnut Creek.
190 00:41:30.090 ⇒ 00:41:32.619 Uttam Kumaran: One dot hide.
191 00:41:32.630 ⇒ 00:41:34.990 Akhila Athresh: No, no, but Andamanta
192 00:41:36.020 ⇒ 00:41:42.140 Uttam Kumaran: not, I don’t know, really. Let me look at my maps. I went there when I was at home.
193 00:41:43.210 ⇒ 00:41:47.780 Uttam Kumaran: So good it was the best thai food. I had it in like
194 00:41:47.890 ⇒ 00:41:49.010 Uttam Kumaran: a long time.
195 00:41:49.480 ⇒ 00:42:16.670 Akhila Athresh: Send it to me. Yeah, no, we we really like here. It’s amazing. And yeah, we might consider, you know, staying here for the long term. No complaints. Yeah, yeah. There’s also a new Indian place that’s come up. It’s not too bad. Actually, it’s pretty good. Yeah, it’s some Indian place that we are. Nobody so pretty good.
196 00:42:16.960 ⇒ 00:42:38.989 Akhila Athresh: Yeah, cool. Alright, II do have to finish performance reviews. And I have maybe one other. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Great. Always. Fun. Yeah. Bye, bye.