2025-08-28_superposition_bf_sync_415243dd

Meeting Title: Superposition <> BF Sync Date: 2025-08-28 Meeting participants: Hannah Wang, Uttam Kumaran, David Cohen

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WEBVTT

1 00:01:06.990 ⇒ 00:01:08.180 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!

2 00:01:10.290 ⇒ 00:01:11.260 Hannah Wang: Hello?

3 00:01:15.750 ⇒ 00:01:18.319 Uttam Kumaran: Busy week. It’s just a good week.

4 00:01:19.640 ⇒ 00:01:28.249 Hannah Wang: Yeah, how many… how many… calls have you had? Well, you’re always recruiting and always in sales calls, so…

5 00:01:28.690 ⇒ 00:01:29.680 Hannah Wang: Must be a lot.

6 00:01:29.680 ⇒ 00:01:31.900 Uttam Kumaran: Honestly, not enough sales calls.

7 00:01:32.180 ⇒ 00:01:32.980 Hannah Wang: Oh.

8 00:01:32.980 ⇒ 00:01:36.309 Uttam Kumaran: Too many, but a lot of recruiting stuff, which is good.

9 00:01:36.420 ⇒ 00:01:39.370 Uttam Kumaran: Like… I think we’re gonna… I think…

10 00:01:39.610 ⇒ 00:01:44.860 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if you met Soledad, but we have two people that are starting on the, …

11 00:01:45.190 ⇒ 00:01:52.410 Uttam Kumaran: sales coordinator side, one of them is here in Austin, so I’m… I’m… Really, really hopeful that

12 00:01:52.790 ⇒ 00:01:54.709 Uttam Kumaran: Robert likes her and it works out.

13 00:01:55.050 ⇒ 00:02:00.330 Uttam Kumaran: … Interviewed for another project manager as well, so…

14 00:02:00.480 ⇒ 00:02:03.179 Uttam Kumaran: He’s here in Texas, too, like, a little bit…

15 00:02:03.300 ⇒ 00:02:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: out of town, so I’m gonna go meet him, ideally on…

16 00:02:09.220 ⇒ 00:02:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: And, yeah, just continue to interview engineers, so… That’s good, I mean, I.

17 00:02:14.310 ⇒ 00:02:17.050 David Cohen: to… did you ever talk to Emily, by the way?

18 00:02:17.430 ⇒ 00:02:26.370 Uttam Kumaran: We did talk to Emily, but the feedback was, like, it wasn’t really clear, like, what role she wanted. Like, we were only hiring for, like.

19 00:02:26.640 ⇒ 00:02:28.460 Uttam Kumaran: Project manager, but it…

20 00:02:28.580 ⇒ 00:02:41.659 Uttam Kumaran: it didn’t seem like she kind of wanted to just be, like, do, like, a lot of ops, and, like, kind of wear a lot of hats, but… which is great, but that’s not exactly, like, what we’re hiring for right now. So that was kind of the internal feedback.

21 00:02:41.980 ⇒ 00:02:56.820 David Cohen: No, that’s fine. I think that makes sense, given where she’s at. I think that the… the… she’s sort of in this, like, weird transition space where the company that she was at got acquired. So, like, she… I don’t think she has probably thought too critically about what sort of role she wants to do next.

22 00:02:58.800 ⇒ 00:03:04.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I think people have a fun time talking to me, because I kind of can just talk about the whole company.

23 00:03:05.140 ⇒ 00:03:07.510 David Cohen: But we’re… That’s that specific need, yeah.

24 00:03:08.380 ⇒ 00:03:14.349 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, we’re… For project managers, and they need to manage projects.

25 00:03:14.480 ⇒ 00:03:28.270 Uttam Kumaran: Which is, like, yeah, it’s really fun to do all the other stuff, but I’m, like, I… over time, we’re gonna get… like, people are just gonna do a couple of things. Like, the fact of doing a lot of stuff is because it’s a startup, which we’re not trying to… I don’t want… every role can only… can’t do that, right? So…

26 00:03:28.370 ⇒ 00:03:35.299 Uttam Kumaran: If it’s marketing stuff you need, which is great, we’re just not hiring for marketing stuff. If it’s ops, same thing, we’re not really hiring for ops.

27 00:03:35.440 ⇒ 00:03:40.940 Uttam Kumaran: Project management, yeah, but I think, like, we have a criteria for, like, that. So my call was, like, okay.

28 00:03:41.360 ⇒ 00:03:48.640 Uttam Kumaran: do you… is she generally, like, can she… can she do a bunch of stuff? Yes. And I was like, and then she talked to Amber on her team, but it wasn’t clear that

29 00:03:48.990 ⇒ 00:03:49.720 Uttam Kumaran: like…

30 00:03:49.830 ⇒ 00:03:58.050 Uttam Kumaran: she wanted to do project management, so yeah, I think something… some folks, I think I call them, and I’m like, you just gotta think… you have to be really clear with, like, what you want, because…

31 00:03:58.380 ⇒ 00:04:03.490 Uttam Kumaran: Being a jack-of-all-trades is not, … Really, like, a great…

32 00:04:03.640 ⇒ 00:04:09.430 Uttam Kumaran: That’s not, like, a job description. Like, that’s not… that doesn’t really exist.

33 00:04:09.710 ⇒ 00:04:11.390 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah.

34 00:04:11.960 ⇒ 00:04:15.409 David Cohen: So sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt your… you were talking to Hannah, so….

35 00:04:15.990 ⇒ 00:04:17.379 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no, no, no.

36 00:04:17.380 ⇒ 00:04:18.250 Hannah Wang: You’re good.

37 00:04:19.260 ⇒ 00:04:27.279 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just, I should be on my laptop in just a sec, but yeah, I guess while, Hannah, we have you here, I was just thinking, you know, we talked about this, …

38 00:04:27.380 ⇒ 00:04:34.429 Uttam Kumaran: last week, but yeah, maybe we can just create a slot-in slide for the workshop offering that can just go into the AI deck?

39 00:04:34.580 ⇒ 00:04:39.569 Uttam Kumaran: Doesn’t… it’s like a… it’s a nitpick, so we… it doesn’t have to go out today.

40 00:04:39.610 ⇒ 00:04:42.770 Hannah Wang: But that was probably the only thing I asked, and then….

41 00:04:42.960 ⇒ 00:04:45.830 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing was, I know, …

42 00:04:46.090 ⇒ 00:04:53.689 Uttam Kumaran: David, we created the, the branded version on your side. The only thing I mentioned to,

43 00:04:53.920 ⇒ 00:04:57.419 Uttam Kumaran: to Hannah, is that if we wanted to add any more

44 00:04:58.080 ⇒ 00:05:02.159 Uttam Kumaran: Like, clients there, or if you wanted to put anything there that we wanted to change.

45 00:05:02.310 ⇒ 00:05:05.240 Uttam Kumaran: Otherwise, like, it’s pretty good from our end.

46 00:05:05.650 ⇒ 00:05:22.829 David Cohen: No, I think it’s pretty good for me, too. So, I brought it up on… I responded to your message, Hannah, so I can add clients where I’ve done these before. My thinking was that, like, I don’t know if it’ll be counterproductive to do that, because basically, like, some of the workshops that I created that would be applicable were, like.

47 00:05:23.970 ⇒ 00:05:30.289 David Cohen: it’s like, you know, like Procter & Gamble would be one of them, right? Which is a great name to have, but they’re not…

48 00:05:30.830 ⇒ 00:05:37.840 David Cohen: like, I don’t know, it would be weird, because then they might… I feel like they’re too… too big of a client, if that makes sense. I don’t know.

49 00:05:39.440 ⇒ 00:05:44.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m open either way, like, I think for the most part, the… putting the logos is just to build authority.

50 00:05:45.180 ⇒ 00:05:45.690 David Cohen: Like, we’ve.

51 00:05:45.720 ⇒ 00:05:49.130 Uttam Kumaran: We rarely, like, got a question about one of those.

52 00:05:49.600 ⇒ 00:05:56.329 Uttam Kumaran: And of course, like, we’re co-selling, we’re co-selling, so if there’s a question about one that I don’t know, I’m like, yeah, David’s worked with them.

53 00:05:56.330 ⇒ 00:06:03.889 David Cohen: Yeah, the reason why I’m, like, hesitant about it, if I had done it under superposition, I would be like, hell yeah, like, just put it in.

54 00:06:03.890 ⇒ 00:06:04.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

55 00:06:04.330 ⇒ 00:06:06.970 David Cohen: in my previous company, so I… I’m just, like….

56 00:06:06.970 ⇒ 00:06:09.249 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I see, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

57 00:06:09.250 ⇒ 00:06:18.590 David Cohen: I’m just very hesitant, and especially because they’re, like, they just got sold, and there’s all this legal stuff, so I don’t want to necessarily add it. I’m just being, like, overly cautious.

58 00:06:18.590 ⇒ 00:06:24.020 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, that’s fair, that’s fair. That’s reasonable, that’s fair. So, if you’re okay with the way it is, I’m fine.

59 00:06:24.020 ⇒ 00:06:24.809 David Cohen: Fine by me.

60 00:06:24.970 ⇒ 00:06:26.490 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Okay, cool.

61 00:06:26.660 ⇒ 00:06:33.230 Hannah Wang: Okay, so I’ll make a ticket for adding a slide up for the workshop into the deck, …

62 00:06:33.510 ⇒ 00:06:37.140 Hannah Wang: But I’m gonna prioritize that for later. …

63 00:06:37.450 ⇒ 00:06:49.080 Hannah Wang: And then, for the one-pager, I’m gonna need to send you another version. I linked the deck that I just revised into the one-pager, but then I…

64 00:06:49.260 ⇒ 00:07:01.050 Hannah Wang: had to… I have to replace it, basically, so I’m gonna send you an updated one, and then I’m also gonna update your version of the one-pager, and then send you that, too, with all the updated links, ….

65 00:07:01.190 ⇒ 00:07:02.609 David Cohen: King to me, right, Hannah?

66 00:07:02.610 ⇒ 00:07:22.260 Hannah Wang: Yes, yeah, because I… we made some changes, like, we added a tech stack, or AI stack, same thing, to the one-pager, I don’t know if you saw it, but I just need to do that for your version, and then change all the links, and then I will send that over, and then, yeah, I’ll… I’m gonna ask you, David, if you can access…

67 00:07:22.340 ⇒ 00:07:34.560 Hannah Wang: the link for the capabilities deck on our Google Drive, and if so, just to make sure it’s, like, visible to everyone and not just our team, and then I think you guys will have everything, you need. Cool. Like, AI stuff.

68 00:07:35.380 ⇒ 00:07:40.340 Uttam Kumaran: I think the new deck looks so good, Hannah, by the way, like, it’s so in-depth, and I think it takes advantage of

69 00:07:40.550 ⇒ 00:07:44.640 Uttam Kumaran: like, those calls that I’ve had were, like, kind of the culmination of me having these calls.

70 00:07:45.060 ⇒ 00:07:49.349 Uttam Kumaran: like, all the time, so it has, like… it’s great, like, I’m gonna start running it.

71 00:07:49.460 ⇒ 00:07:52.219 Uttam Kumaran: for the next clients I have, so I think it’s perfect.

72 00:07:52.220 ⇒ 00:08:01.549 Hannah Wang: Cool. I mean, you pointing me to the right transcripts helped. I just shoved that into ChatGPT, and then I was like, I want to make a slide on this, and it was helpful, so….

73 00:08:01.550 ⇒ 00:08:20.659 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, sick. So that’s the thing, I think probably a better question is next time where I give you… where, like, I’m like, hey, build this slide on some very, like, crazy topic, just ask me, like, was there a call conversation where you had this? Yeah. I guarantee you there is. We’re trying to develop this, like, transcript search feature.

74 00:08:21.130 ⇒ 00:08:31.000 Uttam Kumaran: We’re having a time where basically, I want to make it so you can search across all of our transcripts, so ideally, you can say N8N and see any conversation in the company where we’ve talked about it.

75 00:08:31.000 ⇒ 00:08:31.330 Hannah Wang: Hmm.

76 00:08:31.330 ⇒ 00:08:36.580 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, it’s not… doesn’t exist right now, so I can just tell you, like, a good meeting to co-reference.

77 00:08:36.580 ⇒ 00:08:41.520 Hannah Wang: Okay, cool. Yeah, that was… that was all I needed, and then I just… ripsing off.

78 00:08:41.720 ⇒ 00:08:48.910 David Cohen: So, one thought before we… before you drop, though, Hannah. So, Utam, you and I can talk about it, and then get back to Hannah on it.

79 00:08:48.910 ⇒ 00:09:06.040 David Cohen: But I think that we should talk about doing some, joint content, or either, like, talk about… we know… I know we touched on, like, conferences or, like, events last time, but we never, like, really made a plan around it. Yeah. So, we don’t have to come up with it today, but do… I think that’s a great idea, and we should probably plan on doing that at some point.

80 00:09:06.680 ⇒ 00:09:07.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so there’s….

81 00:09:07.870 ⇒ 00:09:08.280 Hannah Wang: The royal.

82 00:09:08.280 ⇒ 00:09:09.109 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, guys.

83 00:09:09.110 ⇒ 00:09:10.170 Hannah Wang: conference.

84 00:09:10.240 ⇒ 00:09:11.800 David Cohen: When is that one again?

85 00:09:11.930 ⇒ 00:09:13.370 Hannah Wang: ….

86 00:09:13.370 ⇒ 00:09:15.910 Uttam Kumaran: It’s next month, the 26th, I think?

87 00:09:15.910 ⇒ 00:09:16.960 Hannah Wang: 25th.

88 00:09:17.650 ⇒ 00:09:19.700 Hannah Wang: 25th of September.

89 00:09:20.120 ⇒ 00:09:32.359 David Cohen: I’m gonna have to check the dates, because I have to go to Houston either that weekend before, or the one after, so I would have to check, but I’d be… I’d be down, because I think that one was reasonably priced, for me, at least.

90 00:09:33.230 ⇒ 00:09:35.599 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I can get you a discount.

91 00:09:36.990 ⇒ 00:09:38.100 Uttam Kumaran: Pretty sure.

92 00:09:40.290 ⇒ 00:09:44.880 David Cohen: But yeah, if we wanted to throw some sort of event for that, I think… We should.

93 00:09:46.880 ⇒ 00:09:53.889 Hannah Wang: Yeah, we can slot one in for around that conference, and just do, like, an activation for it. …

94 00:09:54.410 ⇒ 00:09:59.449 Hannah Wang: But yeah, definitely, that, yeah, thanks for bringing that up again.

95 00:10:00.600 ⇒ 00:10:07.040 David Cohen: Yeah, so, I’ll check it out, and then I’ll talk to Utam about it, Hannah, and then I guess we’ll get back to you in terms of next steps there.

96 00:10:07.240 ⇒ 00:10:14.259 Hannah Wang: Okay, sounds good. Let me make Ucham the host, or else the meeting will end.

97 00:10:14.830 ⇒ 00:10:15.290 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

98 00:10:15.290 ⇒ 00:10:21.349 Hannah Wang: But yeah, let me know if you need anything on Slack, and I’ll send over all the links and PDFs later.

99 00:10:21.630 ⇒ 00:10:22.190 David Cohen: You got it.

100 00:10:22.780 ⇒ 00:10:24.640 Hannah Wang: Alright, thanks guys, bye.

101 00:10:24.940 ⇒ 00:10:25.860 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.

102 00:10:26.510 ⇒ 00:10:33.770 David Cohen: Have you ever been in a meeting that you’re like, I wish this meeting would just end, and it just never ends?

103 00:10:34.770 ⇒ 00:10:38.820 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, luckily, I just leave if those are happening these days.

104 00:10:38.820 ⇒ 00:10:41.800 David Cohen: It’s funny, it’s like, sometimes those are with clients.

105 00:10:41.810 ⇒ 00:10:47.530 Uttam Kumaran: Internally, not really, because I’m like, what are we doing? Let me, like, end this fucking meeting, like….

106 00:10:47.530 ⇒ 00:10:51.929 David Cohen: No, so in the meeting I was in before this, it was a person, an old

107 00:10:52.130 ⇒ 00:10:54.260 David Cohen: colleague from my NTT days.

108 00:10:54.870 ⇒ 00:11:04.140 David Cohen: actually from my Accenture days. This person can best be described as, like, a human tornado. Like, she’s, like, just, like, uncontrollable, like.

109 00:11:04.560 ⇒ 00:11:07.009 David Cohen: Like, verbal diarrhea, basically.

110 00:11:08.510 ⇒ 00:11:19.209 David Cohen: And it’s really tough to, like, be in the same room as her, because she’s great, like, she’s a very well-connected person, but she also won’t stop talking. And it’s really tough to be in a meeting with her.

111 00:11:21.580 ⇒ 00:11:31.319 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… yeah, I have some friends like that, too. It’s also, like, tough when… you’ll see this as you get busier. Some people are not as busy as you.

112 00:11:31.540 ⇒ 00:11:35.569 Uttam Kumaran: And because of how friendly we both are, they think that, like….

113 00:11:35.570 ⇒ 00:11:38.670 David Cohen: The conversation tends to carry long, yeah.

114 00:11:39.580 ⇒ 00:11:51.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, they can’t… conversations carry over, and they’re getting more out of it than, like… like, the ROI has ended, like, we have… what are the actions? Like, there’s some people I talk to, I’m like, I’m still, like, I thank God I even have, like, any amount of your time.

115 00:11:51.770 ⇒ 00:11:59.619 Uttam Kumaran: But then there’s some people I’m like, yo, this is just one of, like, a hundred other things I’m doing? Like… but also…

116 00:12:00.090 ⇒ 00:12:01.659 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, it’s….

117 00:12:02.630 ⇒ 00:12:10.540 David Cohen: But anyways, alright, let’s talk about Tuesday’s session. So, let me share my screen so we can talk about it real quick.

118 00:12:12.540 ⇒ 00:12:13.520 David Cohen: Can you see?

119 00:12:15.790 ⇒ 00:12:16.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

120 00:12:17.090 ⇒ 00:12:31.329 David Cohen: So, I dropped the… I basically created this for, to share with them, or, I mean, we can share it with them, but this is the board we’re gonna do the day of, so essentially structured everything and cleaned everything up to… to share with them.

121 00:12:31.330 ⇒ 00:12:38.100 David Cohen: So we have two options here. We can either just show up and do it live, or we can record, like, a short walkthrough of…

122 00:12:38.100 ⇒ 00:12:41.829 David Cohen: what it’s going to be. It can either be me or you, I don’t particularly.

123 00:12:41.830 ⇒ 00:12:49.279 Uttam Kumaran: Wait, maybe I can ask you, like, is there any way we could record a generic walkthrough? Because then I could just use that for everybody, or, like….

124 00:12:49.280 ⇒ 00:13:03.079 David Cohen: Yeah, that’s not a bad idea. Yes. Yeah. So I can… I can go to the… the hour, so, like, the standard template we have, and then record a walkthrough of that one. ….

125 00:13:03.390 ⇒ 00:13:05.990 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s best, that way we can…

126 00:13:07.210 ⇒ 00:13:10.699 Uttam Kumaran: Like, it still feels kind of bespoke, but like…

127 00:13:10.870 ⇒ 00:13:21.479 Uttam Kumaran: it’s something that… because I just want to maintain that, like, we minimize, like… this is an expensive thing to run for free, so I just want to make it really easy on our lives to, like.

128 00:13:21.660 ⇒ 00:13:22.720 Uttam Kumaran: do this.

129 00:13:23.130 ⇒ 00:13:24.380 David Cohen: Yeah, that’s fair, because, I mean.

130 00:13:24.380 ⇒ 00:13:24.760 Uttam Kumaran: to you!

131 00:13:24.760 ⇒ 00:13:33.779 David Cohen: Yeah, no, we’re already dedicating an hour to this, so I think, you know, as little time as we can dedicate to this as possible. In addition, then the better.

132 00:13:34.010 ⇒ 00:13:34.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

133 00:13:35.450 ⇒ 00:13:47.359 David Cohen: So I guess the first thing I wanted to get from you in terms of context is how close are these guys to signing on to do this after the fact? I get the sense from the email thread that they’re just sort of wishy-washy on it, but….

134 00:13:47.360 ⇒ 00:13:49.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I would say, …

135 00:13:52.590 ⇒ 00:14:00.449 Uttam Kumaran: like, kind of the way it is, one, there… there is a ton of inefficiency in their business. They already have, like, an AI committee.

136 00:14:00.640 ⇒ 00:14:04.460 Uttam Kumaran: I think this guy, Jan, is the actual person that, like.

137 00:14:05.260 ⇒ 00:14:11.690 Uttam Kumaran: is running it internally. The guy… the other guy, Matthew, is the C… is the CEO.

138 00:14:12.080 ⇒ 00:14:15.670 Uttam Kumaran: … So, this is really, like.

139 00:14:16.030 ⇒ 00:14:24.080 Uttam Kumaran: I… I don’t think they just knew enough about, like, what they were even trying to automate for them… for me to even quote anything.

140 00:14:24.800 ⇒ 00:14:25.450 David Cohen: Fair.

141 00:14:25.450 ⇒ 00:14:27.259 Uttam Kumaran: They basically called me, and they were like.

142 00:14:27.390 ⇒ 00:14:42.010 Uttam Kumaran: I got an intro from a friend who plays paddle with the CEO, and… and I’m like… I roughly… I could give you even those meetings. I roughly found, like, yeah, they have some open opportunities, they have nowhere to begin.

143 00:14:42.400 ⇒ 00:14:47.459 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I… but they have budget, for sure they have budget. It’s a big-ass company.

144 00:14:47.760 ⇒ 00:14:56.070 Uttam Kumaran: So… I would probably peg it at, like, 50%. It’s not like… They’re stringing us along, but…

145 00:14:56.340 ⇒ 00:14:59.340 Uttam Kumaran: It’s also not, like, their number one problem.

146 00:14:59.700 ⇒ 00:15:00.280 David Cohen: Yeah.

147 00:15:00.280 ⇒ 00:15:04.390 Uttam Kumaran: like, there’s some people that are stringing me along in my inbox that I’m not gonna… I can’t…

148 00:15:04.490 ⇒ 00:15:06.580 Uttam Kumaran: This would just be a complete waste.

149 00:15:06.580 ⇒ 00:15:08.239 David Cohen: You, you and me both, man.

150 00:15:08.240 ⇒ 00:15:13.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, which is fine. There’s also… but, like, they… all I can do for them is get another follow-up to them. Fine.

151 00:15:13.930 ⇒ 00:15:17.009 David Cohen: There’s some people who are, like, so gung-ho that I’m like.

152 00:15:17.710 ⇒ 00:15:19.799 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, you need to do, like, a bigger workshop.

153 00:15:19.900 ⇒ 00:15:23.649 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Those are those, those are those people. So these guys are, like, 50%.

154 00:15:23.840 ⇒ 00:15:25.309 Uttam Kumaran: Probability, I would say.

155 00:15:25.870 ⇒ 00:15:43.820 David Cohen: Got it. So, okay, so the point of me asking that is, in terms of the agenda, right, I think it would make sense, obviously, start with some table setting from you, like, explain why we’re together there, like, explain who I am, and if you want, if you want, we can skip my intro. If you want me to intro myself, I’m indifferent to it, it’s just…

156 00:15:44.060 ⇒ 00:16:00.899 David Cohen: you know, just obviously introduce who I am and what I do in relation to Brainforge, and then that we are partnering, our companies are partnering to build this together, whatever, and then just… I want to jump straight into it, rather than, like, spending more time on intros. I don’t think we need to waste much more time on that.

157 00:16:01.100 ⇒ 00:16:02.839 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, that’s fine.

158 00:16:03.170 ⇒ 00:16:10.180 David Cohen: And then we’ll jump straight into the activities, so similar to what we did with Troy, I’ll have them do the challenges bit.

159 00:16:10.180 ⇒ 00:16:25.229 David Cohen: it’ll probably be, like, I don’t know, 15 minutes each? So, like, maybe 15 minutes, 5 minutes on the challenges, like, actually putting them down, and then 10 minutes on the… on the actual, like, talking about them, and categorizing them into the priorities.

160 00:16:25.230 ⇒ 00:16:28.909 David Cohen: the… the bit that I wanted to ask you about is, for this one.

161 00:16:28.930 ⇒ 00:16:38.780 David Cohen: do you want to just watch them, or do you want to participate in grouping their perspectives into, like, buckets? Like, do you want to actually participate in the activities yourself?

162 00:16:40.560 ⇒ 00:16:42.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess, like.

163 00:16:42.270 ⇒ 00:16:48.009 Uttam Kumaran: I am really great in these, because I have, like, I know what the problems they’re facing are.

164 00:16:48.010 ⇒ 00:16:48.550 David Cohen: Okay.

165 00:16:48.550 ⇒ 00:16:51.849 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, if it helps to juice it, I’m happy to.

166 00:16:52.040 ⇒ 00:17:05.890 David Cohen: So, so it will… it will help juice it on two fronts. One is that it sells that you are an expert and you understand the problem. Like, it’s like showing that, right, directly. But two is that you can already start to get

167 00:17:05.890 ⇒ 00:17:14.690 David Cohen: soft scoping, so to speak, of, like, grouping their ideas. So, basically, what I’m gonna say is, you know, go do the activity as you’re putting in your answers.

168 00:17:14.690 ⇒ 00:17:19.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, otherwise I’m good too. I’m just gonna be sitting there, and I’m gonna get distracted. I might as well… I’m down. Yeah, this is great.

169 00:17:20.000 ⇒ 00:17:33.350 David Cohen: So anyways, like, the ask for them is going to be just do your things, and then Utame is going to start to leave his thoughts on where he might group some of these, right? So you guys start to think about these cohesively in units versus, like, individual stickies, because more than likely.

170 00:17:33.350 ⇒ 00:17:50.079 David Cohen: many of them will be related, so basically you… I will ask you to group them together. So, like, imagine you were… if this was, like, you know, whatever here, and there was another answer over here that was related, all I’m gonna ask you to do is basically put them on top of each other and group them into whatever bucket that this should actually be.

171 00:17:50.740 ⇒ 00:17:52.269 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, that’s fine.

172 00:17:52.790 ⇒ 00:18:05.970 David Cohen: And then, same goes for the rest of these, right? For, like, the opportunities, it would be the same thing. Like, what, … we likely won’t even have this many opportunities, it’s just two of them. So, like, if anything, we’ll have, like, two rows or something. So….

173 00:18:05.970 ⇒ 00:18:09.149 Uttam Kumaran: One of the things I’m also gonna do is, I’m gonna use, …

174 00:18:09.680 ⇒ 00:18:22.490 Uttam Kumaran: and I’ll do this manually for this one, but I’m gonna have AI take my previous meetings with them, and then kind of create, like, a script for this, because one is, like, I want to say the same intro every time.

175 00:18:22.630 ⇒ 00:18:24.070 David Cohen: Okay. I make it crisp.

176 00:18:24.200 ⇒ 00:18:25.390 Uttam Kumaran: I also want…

177 00:18:26.080 ⇒ 00:18:33.830 Uttam Kumaran: because, like, we’re just talking to so many businesses, I want to have, like, AI come up with a couple of these. That way, in case I blink, I can slot those in.

178 00:18:34.200 ⇒ 00:18:41.479 Uttam Kumaran: So basically, like, because I already know, like, I have the answers. I would like them to arrive at something

179 00:18:41.760 ⇒ 00:18:46.669 Uttam Kumaran: Else, or double down, but, like, I was gonna say….

180 00:18:46.670 ⇒ 00:18:58.340 David Cohen: From a sales perspective, what would be amazing is if we could, in a future version, we could come to one of these with some of the answers pre-populated, based on your previous discussions, too.

181 00:18:58.340 ⇒ 00:19:04.270 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly, no, that’s exactly it. So, I want to have that… I’m gonna… I’ll work with AI a little bit to create that doc.

182 00:19:04.540 ⇒ 00:19:16.070 Uttam Kumaran: like, before the meeting, we’ll just use that as, like… I want to use it as a script doc, because that’s what’s gonna get handed off as, like, that could… I mean, that’s a great output from this.

183 00:19:16.420 ⇒ 00:19:22.189 Uttam Kumaran: And then also, like, if they end up being like, cool, we want to go after that, I want to hand that to my team to say, like, okay.

184 00:19:22.580 ⇒ 00:19:29.730 Uttam Kumaran: go after something like this? Like, I don’t know. But also, like, I definitely… yeah, so let me think about, like, what that…

185 00:19:30.760 ⇒ 00:19:41.229 Uttam Kumaran: that could be, because some of the things I want to reference, for example, it would be great if I can pre-reference, like, hey, they talked about these, we already have a case study on, like, two of these that could be relevant.

186 00:19:41.480 ⇒ 00:19:45.179 Uttam Kumaran: For you as a follow-on to send, or something like that, you know?

187 00:19:45.720 ⇒ 00:20:05.970 David Cohen: Yeah, I think, now that I’m thinking about it more, I think for this one, I kind of just want to… I know I said I wanted to send them a recorded walkthrough. I kind of want to hold off on this one, because it’s not the first time we’re doing this, but I want to see how it goes, in terms of the structure being fully set, and then we can record after that, record, like, the generic message based on what we see.

188 00:20:06.410 ⇒ 00:20:07.060 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

189 00:20:08.200 ⇒ 00:20:23.879 David Cohen: But yeah, so as far as the actual session, you know, we’ll do each of the activities here. As far as the next steps, obviously, we’ll focus it on potentially us sending them, you know, you and I collectively sending them a proposal for whatever we come up with.

190 00:20:24.200 ⇒ 00:20:24.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I think.

191 00:20:24.930 ⇒ 00:20:25.490 David Cohen: See that?

192 00:20:25.750 ⇒ 00:20:30.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think the other thing is, like, at the end, I want to give them, like, both

193 00:20:30.810 ⇒ 00:20:32.660 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think about the workshop?

194 00:20:32.940 ⇒ 00:20:36.990 Uttam Kumaran: Like, can we… you interested in doing a larger version of these?

195 00:20:37.140 ⇒ 00:20:44.120 Uttam Kumaran: Second isn’t either… either or parallel, like, can we start fleshing out some of these?

196 00:20:44.330 ⇒ 00:20:45.699 Uttam Kumaran: work streams.

197 00:20:46.230 ⇒ 00:20:51.819 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna… I wanna carve out, like, I think the biggest thing is for us to make sure we carve out time for that.

198 00:20:52.200 ⇒ 00:20:57.450 Uttam Kumaran: To… to have that, to have that one really clear, because I’ll make… I’ll ask, like, super upfront.

199 00:20:59.020 ⇒ 00:21:07.699 David Cohen: So I think maybe instead of next step… so the next step should… what I’ll do is I’ll add categories. It’s like, let’s talk about workshop feedback first, right?

200 00:21:07.700 ⇒ 00:21:14.760 Uttam Kumaran: I think asking for feedback is a great way for them to explain why an extended workshop

201 00:21:15.060 ⇒ 00:21:17.310 Uttam Kumaran: Could be important, right?

202 00:21:18.150 ⇒ 00:21:23.240 David Cohen: Yeah, so it’s basically this. So, like, we want to talk about…

203 00:21:24.680 ⇒ 00:21:35.199 David Cohen: and I’ll change the title so it’s not Extended Workshop Opportunities, but it’s essentially, like, next steps. Like, what do you think of the workshop, and where do you think you could see opportunities to continue talking about some of this stuff?

204 00:21:35.510 ⇒ 00:21:39.820 David Cohen: And so, we just have them tell us, as part of the next steps, to close out.

205 00:21:40.470 ⇒ 00:21:41.369 David Cohen: Sort of like this.

206 00:21:48.210 ⇒ 00:21:48.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

207 00:21:49.790 ⇒ 00:22:02.229 David Cohen: And then, obviously, that’ll tell us where we need to head in terms of proposing to them, right? The feedback we can just incorporate and change. The workshop opportunities will just be whatever we decide to pitch them on, if anything.

208 00:22:02.280 ⇒ 00:22:18.269 David Cohen: The… the driver, though, is that the work… the next set of workshops would be to break out whatever opportunities we define here. So I don’t think it necessarily makes sense to be like, do you want to do more workshops, and then in parallel, start to break out some of the

209 00:22:18.270 ⇒ 00:22:22.569 David Cohen: The ideas, because the workshops would be to break out those ideas in the first place.

210 00:22:23.850 ⇒ 00:22:25.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.

211 00:22:25.780 ⇒ 00:22:26.120 David Cohen: So….

212 00:22:26.120 ⇒ 00:22:27.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Yeah.

213 00:22:31.370 ⇒ 00:22:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

214 00:22:32.560 ⇒ 00:22:46.090 David Cohen: So anyway, so that’s, that’s it as far as this goes, right? So then, obviously, after the fact, you and I will, I guess, just reconvene and talk about what came out of it, if anything, and then hopefully send them something to…

215 00:22:46.460 ⇒ 00:22:47.849 David Cohen: You know, get them to bite.

216 00:22:49.660 ⇒ 00:23:02.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think another thing is, like, I’m gonna try to record myself on my side, outside of the Zoom. If you wanna do that too, then I can hand that to our…

217 00:23:02.720 ⇒ 00:23:10.459 Uttam Kumaran: marketing folks and see if they can, like, cut together, like, a generic sizzle about the workshop. Minus, like.

218 00:23:11.420 ⇒ 00:23:13.570 Uttam Kumaran: Minus anything proprietary.

219 00:23:14.160 ⇒ 00:23:18.180 David Cohen: Yeah, I think, that would be a good idea. I mean, is the NEFCO team okay with that?

220 00:23:19.200 ⇒ 00:23:23.960 Uttam Kumaran: But if we’re not… but if it’s not anything NEFCO, if it’s, like, you in the meeting, what is it, like….

221 00:23:23.960 ⇒ 00:23:26.819 David Cohen: Oh, I see. Well, I thought you meant, like, to show the board as well.

222 00:23:26.820 ⇒ 00:23:32.869 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I would just… I would just say record, because this… the screen recording, we could sub in whatever.

223 00:23:32.970 ⇒ 00:23:40.600 David Cohen: But the talking points of me and you in the flow, we’re gonna miss out, so, like, if you could just literally open QuickTime, hit record….

224 00:23:40.690 ⇒ 00:23:48.260 Uttam Kumaran: locally, I’m gonna do the same thing. I’ll just hand… I’ll tell the team, like, cut out anything that’s, like, specific to NEFCO,

225 00:23:48.720 ⇒ 00:23:54.800 Uttam Kumaran: And if… if there are things we can clip to make a sizzle reel about the workshop, …

226 00:23:55.040 ⇒ 00:23:56.910 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t know, I feel like that’s fine.

227 00:23:57.650 ⇒ 00:24:02.429 David Cohen: Yeah, and if you invite your recorder to the meeting, doesn’t it record both you and I?

228 00:24:02.860 ⇒ 00:24:05.800 Uttam Kumaran: It does, but sometimes the quality…

229 00:24:06.550 ⇒ 00:24:15.690 Uttam Kumaran: because it’s recording, it’s not like, recording on your stream quality. Like, it’s processing the video through Zoom and then saving it.

230 00:24:15.990 ⇒ 00:24:21.460 Uttam Kumaran: So your local recording will be 720p, this will be, like, sometimes last.

231 00:24:21.460 ⇒ 00:24:28.870 David Cohen: Okay, yeah, so okay, I’ll just record it locally through my… I just don’t know if I’m gonna have sound… I’ll have to check, I’ll have to try it out.

232 00:24:29.370 ⇒ 00:24:32.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, as long as we get… because we get the audio through this.

233 00:24:32.740 ⇒ 00:24:36.649 Uttam Kumaran: So audio, I’m okay. It’s actually more the video.

234 00:24:36.980 ⇒ 00:24:39.009 Uttam Kumaran: Like, as long as you have it on your side.

235 00:24:40.240 ⇒ 00:24:57.060 David Cohen: Okay, yeah, I’ll see what I can make happen on that front, so you have some content to work off of there. So then, as far as outside of NEFCO, just to give you some updates, I reached out, I sent that email to the Health Wildcatter folks here in Dallas, haven’t really heard back, I think she’s just…

236 00:24:57.700 ⇒ 00:25:00.309 David Cohen: And, you know, unresponsive, but I need to follow up.

237 00:25:00.430 ⇒ 00:25:08.709 David Cohen: And then followed up, or sent that email to my friend who is, who was talking about, like, doing automation stuff at Weaver, so that….

238 00:25:08.710 ⇒ 00:25:09.060 Uttam Kumaran: That’s okay.

239 00:25:09.060 ⇒ 00:25:09.920 David Cohen: Also…

240 00:25:10.220 ⇒ 00:25:27.269 David Cohen: I’ve messaged him, he hasn’t responded either. But, what’s happening, basically, is as I’m running into anybody that is, like, interested in doing strategy work, or, like, on the AI front, but doesn’t necessarily need a workshop, I’m just like, hey, I’m partnering with Brainforge.

241 00:25:27.370 ⇒ 00:25:33.119 David Cohen: Let’s talk about this. So that’s… that’s how I’m going about it, at least. And so on… on your end.

242 00:25:33.120 ⇒ 00:25:44.580 Uttam Kumaran: let me know if there are any particular conversations that I could grease the wheels, so to speak. Well, yeah, I mean, but let me give you, like, even on… even on my side, like, we have some clients that I want to run this with, but, like.

243 00:25:44.690 ⇒ 00:25:50.900 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, tell me, like, how flexible you are in pricing, because at 20, 25K, it would be, like.

244 00:25:51.280 ⇒ 00:25:53.859 Uttam Kumaran: 3 months of an engagement with us.

245 00:25:54.010 ⇒ 00:25:58.359 David Cohen: Yeah. And I don’t know if some of it, like, some of these medium businesses are gonna bite at that.

246 00:25:58.440 ⇒ 00:26:09.760 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, what… how flexible are you on pricing, or, like, what do you think? Because, for example, I have some existing data clients that I think I can pitch them on running this. I would have to do…

247 00:26:09.950 ⇒ 00:26:14.489 Uttam Kumaran: I would have to go interview everybody to even get this, so I would much rather run this

248 00:26:14.710 ⇒ 00:26:15.949 Uttam Kumaran: within them.

249 00:26:16.170 ⇒ 00:26:21.090 Uttam Kumaran: But I think, like, the… what I know in my mind for the pricing is what they’re gonna push back on.

250 00:26:21.680 ⇒ 00:26:27.840 David Cohen: Yeah, I think it… so it depends on how low you want to go, right? Like, I could probably go as low as, like.

251 00:26:28.020 ⇒ 00:26:35.159 David Cohen: 10 or 15 for one of them, but it would be… it would just have to be less time, is all, like, so instead of maybe doing, like, a…

252 00:26:35.320 ⇒ 00:26:51.240 David Cohen: you know, we do several sessions that are, like, a day long or something, we just have to do, like, either a couple smaller sessions. Like, I’m starting to build in a little more flexibility in terms of time by doing smaller bits of sessions versus doing one long one. So maybe…

253 00:26:51.240 ⇒ 00:27:03.519 David Cohen: for that type of setting, it might be, like, maybe we just do 5 one-hour sessions versus one 8-hour session, right? Like, they’re not the same amount of time, but they’re broken out over several sessions is what makes it cheaper.

254 00:27:04.030 ⇒ 00:27:09.329 Uttam Kumaran: So, let’s take… okay, so, like, let’s take both ends. So, like, let’s say I was to say, cool, client has budget for 10.

255 00:27:09.830 ⇒ 00:27:12.479 Uttam Kumaran: What is, like, what would the, like.

256 00:27:13.150 ⇒ 00:27:15.150 Uttam Kumaran: What would the commitment be on your side?

257 00:27:15.800 ⇒ 00:27:34.009 David Cohen: So the commitment would be we either do a series of smaller workshops, like, you know, small one- to two-hour workshops, however many we want to do, or one shorter workshop than whatever the standard commitment is that we have in the, in the, like, traditional offering. But I will say this, right, like.

258 00:27:34.550 ⇒ 00:27:41.139 David Cohen: I would… if you have an opportunity, I would rather you come to me and us work out the pricing than you not tell me at all because of the.

259 00:27:41.140 ⇒ 00:27:50.939 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, there’s nothing that’s happening on that. Like, if I’m pitching… if there’s someone on the hook, I’ll tell you. It’s just more, like, some of our clients, we’re only charging them

260 00:27:52.250 ⇒ 00:27:55.609 Uttam Kumaran: like, some are 5 to 10K, some are 10 to 15K.

261 00:27:55.970 ⇒ 00:28:08.759 Uttam Kumaran: So I just kind of want to get the range of, like, what your floor is, and that helps me pitch to them, or, like, offer something and say, like, we’re discounting it a little bit, or to just think through, like, okay, here’s what’s on the table.

262 00:28:09.410 ⇒ 00:28:27.260 David Cohen: I think, like, the absolute floor, just to, like, kind of get it out there, is, like, probably, like, $7,500is,like,thefloor,right?Andsothat,ifsomebod{y}^{\prime }slike,oh,Ionlyhave$7,500, I would take that hit happily to do the work and get the credentials so that we can take this elsewhere and do it for more expensive prices.

263 00:28:27.260 ⇒ 00:28:29.029 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay.

264 00:28:29.030 ⇒ 00:28:32.269 David Cohen: In an ideal world, I want to charge, like, 50K for each one of these.

265 00:28:32.270 ⇒ 00:28:33.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

266 00:28:33.030 ⇒ 00:28:33.949 David Cohen: when you can buy them.

267 00:28:35.760 ⇒ 00:28:36.340 David Cohen: ….

268 00:28:36.340 ⇒ 00:28:37.200 Uttam Kumaran: I agree.

269 00:28:38.380 ⇒ 00:28:40.549 David Cohen: So, anyways, yeah, the… on my end.

270 00:28:40.920 ⇒ 00:28:43.389 David Cohen: The… the thing has been, like.

271 00:28:44.250 ⇒ 00:28:58.040 David Cohen: how to roll these out to other companies, like, because I don’t target the, like, the same ones that you do. Like, basically, when I go to networking events, and I hear of somebody that’s like, I wish I could do more with AI, I wish I could do all my data, it’s like, well.

272 00:28:58.170 ⇒ 00:29:02.460 David Cohen: you know, I have something. Yeah. So, that’s essentially it. ….

273 00:29:02.460 ⇒ 00:29:05.079 Uttam Kumaran: That’s exactly it. So, for the folks that are least

274 00:29:05.210 ⇒ 00:29:21.979 Uttam Kumaran: knowledgeable, this is what I send. Also, we’re sending this as part of every AI email that we send, which is usually, like, one or two per day. Anytime where we’re, like, we have a follow-up and it’s related to AI, or we are scheduling a meeting, this is attached.

275 00:29:22.070 ⇒ 00:29:27.109 Uttam Kumaran: And now we’re starting to do a lot of outbound, too, so this is… in addition to the deck.

276 00:29:27.700 ⇒ 00:29:30.159 Uttam Kumaran: This one-pager and the offer.

277 00:29:30.280 ⇒ 00:29:34.939 Uttam Kumaran: And then I think we’re gonna attach my Blue People talk. Those are, like, our three…

278 00:29:35.270 ⇒ 00:29:36.990 Uttam Kumaran: Like, things that we’re sending.

279 00:29:37.480 ⇒ 00:29:46.480 David Cohen: How did, how did your blue people go talk, or talk go after the fact? Like, I had a couple people reach out about it, and they all sort of were, like, non-committal or weird after.

280 00:29:46.480 ⇒ 00:29:51.560 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think it’s gonna be… I mean, we have probably, like, 35 leads.

281 00:29:51.820 ⇒ 00:29:54.449 Uttam Kumaran: I would be happy if two people take a call.

282 00:29:54.780 ⇒ 00:30:02.830 Uttam Kumaran: It was… the problem is it was a lot of, like… in here, it was a capital factory here, so it’s a lot of engineers. So they loved it, because, like.

283 00:30:03.190 ⇒ 00:30:13.079 Uttam Kumaran: that’s me, like, and I’m, like, running this company, and they’re like, oh, you’re one of us, and I was like, that’s great, yeah, the topic’s really interesting, but I need you to buy our services.

284 00:30:13.280 ⇒ 00:30:13.870 Uttam Kumaran: So….

285 00:30:13.870 ⇒ 00:30:23.759 David Cohen: For me, for me, it was interesting because I talked to a lot of consultants, obviously my target market, but it, … it was not, like, they were all sort of, like.

286 00:30:24.200 ⇒ 00:30:31.310 David Cohen: I don’t know. Not the… they weren’t my right type of customer, if that makes sense. I gotta talk to them, some of them, and I’m like, I don’t know, this isn’t.

287 00:30:31.310 ⇒ 00:30:33.530 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, why? What, what’s, what, why weren’t they right?

288 00:30:34.120 ⇒ 00:30:49.899 David Cohen: It’s just, like, they were… I don’t know, like, a little… so, like, a lot of my work is also, I’m realizing, is very, like, vibes-based. Like, if I want to work with somebody, too, versus just, like… In some cases, like, these companies were, like, not ready to even use my services, right? Like, they….

289 00:30:49.900 ⇒ 00:30:54.739 Uttam Kumaran: But what is your… is your… is your pitch mainly, like… You should be offering workshops.

290 00:30:55.170 ⇒ 00:31:12.629 David Cohen: So the pitches actually evolved into two parts, and I know this is a digression from the stuff we’re talking about, so… but the… it’s basically two parts. If you are a consultancy and you’re offering work to clients, the workshops are to help you organize around ambiguity and to scope work, effectively.

291 00:31:12.970 ⇒ 00:31:18.589 David Cohen: Right? To do the discovery piece. You can watch the recording that I did for Vixel, I explained it there.

292 00:31:18.590 ⇒ 00:31:18.910 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

293 00:31:18.910 ⇒ 00:31:19.550 David Cohen: the stages.

294 00:31:19.550 ⇒ 00:31:20.469 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay.

295 00:31:20.670 ⇒ 00:31:33.159 David Cohen: But, the… it’s basically, like, how do you manage each of the stages of a consulting project and use a collaborative setting to navigate, like, bringing people together to get answers on X problem?

296 00:31:33.450 ⇒ 00:31:50.599 David Cohen: the… what it’s evolving into on the internal side also is that the workshops are also useful for, like, organizing around, like, internal business strategy for your consultancy. So, like, if you are running your company, like, I just did this work with, the people at Database Tycoon.

297 00:31:50.850 ⇒ 00:31:53.150 David Cohen: Nice. Bohic, who you may know.

298 00:31:53.450 ⇒ 00:31:54.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

299 00:31:54.440 ⇒ 00:32:04.179 David Cohen: So they… so Steven, who’s the CEO there, brought me on to do, basically, to use the workshop frameworks to develop their internal meetings.

300 00:32:04.180 ⇒ 00:32:19.609 David Cohen: and then structure, like, sales, marketing, partnerships, all of their internal functions around the collaborative framework. So basically, like, how do we make all these meetings more efficient, and how do we bring a team that is more mature, so, like, has 10 to 15 people.

301 00:32:19.860 ⇒ 00:32:29.440 David Cohen: Such that they can use the workshops as a driver to have these meetings properly accomplished and be a meaningful set of meetings, as opposed to just, like, random shit they do.

302 00:32:29.510 ⇒ 00:32:46.779 David Cohen: But what it… what it went… what it created is, like, it created a setting for Steven as the leader to have, like, a more, like, big picture perspective on, like, the business strategy, like, where they’re headed from a go-to-market perspective, from a pricing perspective.

303 00:32:46.780 ⇒ 00:32:56.529 David Cohen: like, how they’re structuring and differentiating their offerings, and so now I’ve, like, used the workshops and started to branch out into using the workshops as, like, a driver of, like.

304 00:32:56.760 ⇒ 00:33:08.629 David Cohen: essentially defining offerings, defining pricing, defining business models, defining, like, marketing strategies. It’s more of, like, a general support function for consultancies as a whole.

305 00:33:09.500 ⇒ 00:33:14.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I just think the only thing you’re missing is you… I think you gotta say, this is a…

306 00:33:14.470 ⇒ 00:33:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: Opportunity for more money.

307 00:33:16.810 ⇒ 00:33:17.320 Uttam Kumaran: Like….

308 00:33:17.320 ⇒ 00:33:18.660 David Cohen: Obviously, obviously.

309 00:33:18.660 ⇒ 00:33:22.720 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, but I think it’s obvious, but I also think that should be the number one.

310 00:33:22.880 ⇒ 00:33:28.849 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if you’re not… you should say, if you’re not offering workshops, This is found revenue.

311 00:33:29.610 ⇒ 00:33:33.760 Uttam Kumaran: for your existing clients. Like, I think… because I think about me.

312 00:33:33.990 ⇒ 00:33:48.860 Uttam Kumaran: totally, I think, like, if I was running a bigger company and I needed alignment, we would use you to run the workshop. Definitely, I think we should be having some collaborative nature of getting requirements. But more importantly, I think we can make some money!

313 00:33:49.040 ⇒ 00:33:49.740 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s all.

314 00:33:49.740 ⇒ 00:33:57.270 David Cohen: I guess I should be more explicit about it in the pitch, right? The implication is that through doing the collaborative workshop.

315 00:33:57.550 ⇒ 00:34:11.919 David Cohen: aspect, and I talk about it in the Vixel bit a little bit, is that you can identify opportunities to sell more projects, right? And you can identify places to either deliver faster and save yourself money in how you deliver.

316 00:34:11.929 ⇒ 00:34:12.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

317 00:34:12.310 ⇒ 00:34:14.919 David Cohen: create more work, and make more money. And then.

318 00:34:14.920 ⇒ 00:34:20.229 Uttam Kumaran: The second… the second thing I think is the most… is the… is the bigger opportunity, because

319 00:34:20.330 ⇒ 00:34:33.379 Uttam Kumaran: people are not often gonna… most of the consultancies, I feel like, are not gonna have the margin, or they’re not gonna see the benefit of implementing more internal process, because that’s all cost. But if you’re like, hey, you guys are probably either, one.

320 00:34:33.440 ⇒ 00:34:44.109 Uttam Kumaran: sitting… you’re probably, in your clients, doing a great job, but sitting on, like, 3 more work streams. In… in a few hours, I can get you those, and you can get to the SOW. Like, I feel like that’s a compelling thing.

321 00:34:44.429 ⇒ 00:34:59.429 David Cohen: You know what the difference is internally, though, and what I’m realizing the value is, is that you’re right, it is a cost function, but the problem is that you, Brain Forge specifically, are significantly further along the, like, positioning spectrum than, like, 95%.

322 00:34:59.430 ⇒ 00:35:02.550 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure, for sure, for sure.

323 00:35:02.550 ⇒ 00:35:11.889 David Cohen: So, so the… the… that… obviously, it’s not for you in that sense, but the… the offering is more of, like, a… if you don’t know what your consultancy sells… I see.

324 00:35:12.030 ⇒ 00:35:17.299 David Cohen: They need alignment on what it is, and that requires bringing your team together into some.

325 00:35:17.300 ⇒ 00:35:17.679 Uttam Kumaran: I see.

326 00:35:17.680 ⇒ 00:35:20.299 David Cohen: So, so that’s really the sell.

327 00:35:20.440 ⇒ 00:35:31.269 David Cohen: Yeah, and then externally, it’s obviously what you’re saying, so you can make more money because you sell more projects, because you do your projects better, because you can charge per value and not for time, etc, etc.

328 00:35:31.690 ⇒ 00:35:33.169 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, makes sense, makes sense.

329 00:35:33.170 ⇒ 00:35:35.949 David Cohen: It’s just that you are significantly more mature.

330 00:35:35.950 ⇒ 00:35:36.570 Uttam Kumaran: impressive.

331 00:35:36.570 ⇒ 00:35:38.460 David Cohen: Like, than most companies are.

332 00:35:39.150 ⇒ 00:35:45.200 Uttam Kumaran: just got frustrated with not having it figured out, and then I read every book on it, so then we figured it out.

333 00:35:45.200 ⇒ 00:35:48.919 David Cohen: You know, the people that don’t… haven’t read those books, they hire me, and then I help them.

334 00:35:48.920 ⇒ 00:35:54.339 Uttam Kumaran: You should leave him with a free book at the end, at least, dude, come on.

335 00:35:54.340 ⇒ 00:35:58.500 David Cohen: I don’t have enough time to sleep, Utah. You think I’m gonna write a book?

336 00:35:58.500 ⇒ 00:36:04.919 Uttam Kumaran: No, dude, buy one of these positioning books I have in front of me, and be like, oh, these are… this is what I would recommend you read as a follow-on.

337 00:36:04.920 ⇒ 00:36:13.620 David Cohen: So, like, so what I’m realizing and I’m expanding into, and I think what my company’s gonna end up growing into, as I’m realizing, is basically building in

338 00:36:13.660 ⇒ 00:36:28.189 David Cohen: like, on top of the normal workshop stuff, which will always remain, is also building in, like, other internal support capabilities for consultancies like yours, basically. Like, marketing stuff, positioning, branding.

339 00:36:28.320 ⇒ 00:36:45.540 David Cohen: like, essentially all the, like, intrinsic shit to running a company. Like, maybe it’s, like, expanding into bringing ghostwriters, and marketing people, and branding people, and, like, all this other shit that goes into running a company, that I think is where I’m headed, and making that all kind of supported by the workshop shit.

340 00:36:45.540 ⇒ 00:36:52.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I think it depends on, like… but I don’t know, I feel like… I was just talking to someone about it, if you could promise

341 00:36:53.020 ⇒ 00:36:54.970 Uttam Kumaran: New, net new revenue?

342 00:36:55.160 ⇒ 00:36:58.270 David Cohen: I mean, that’s the core offering as it is.

343 00:36:58.270 ⇒ 00:37:01.490 Uttam Kumaran: It’s compelling, dude, yeah. That’s what’s compelling for me, is that

344 00:37:01.690 ⇒ 00:37:10.550 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think it, like, this is gonna unlock… you know… So, yeah, I mean… Yeah.

345 00:37:10.550 ⇒ 00:37:15.089 David Cohen: Speaking of Vixel, by the way, have you met Ben Feifeke?

346 00:37:15.390 ⇒ 00:37:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

347 00:37:16.270 ⇒ 00:37:17.829 David Cohen: What’s your take on him?

348 00:37:18.960 ⇒ 00:37:22.869 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, … Like, I know a lot of people….

349 00:37:23.060 ⇒ 00:37:27.830 David Cohen: So you can be honest, by the way, because I’m working… I started working with him, I just want your honest opinion.

350 00:37:28.170 ⇒ 00:37:37.299 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, look, I think Vixel attracts people at every stage. Like, they get people like us who, when I got into Vixel, we were already making, like.

351 00:37:37.480 ⇒ 00:37:43.089 Uttam Kumaran: we were at, like, probably half a million run rate. You also get people like Ben and some other people who just, like.

352 00:37:43.380 ⇒ 00:37:45.950 Uttam Kumaran: Are having, like, balancing or juggling a couple clients.

353 00:37:46.900 ⇒ 00:37:52.230 Uttam Kumaran: the chasm to cross for those people is really, really tough. Like.

354 00:37:52.350 ⇒ 00:37:54.780 Uttam Kumaran: Most of those people will not make it.

355 00:37:54.890 ⇒ 00:37:59.200 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not up to me to decide whether they will or not, but, like.

356 00:37:59.510 ⇒ 00:38:01.869 Uttam Kumaran: Some people are on that side of the table.

357 00:38:02.000 ⇒ 00:38:08.659 Uttam Kumaran: And, yeah, like, they do what I used to do, which is, like, you have a shit ton of ideas, you’re trying, you’re spraying and praying.

358 00:38:09.080 ⇒ 00:38:10.120 David Cohen: And that’s why….

359 00:38:10.120 ⇒ 00:38:10.870 Uttam Kumaran: people’s time.

360 00:38:11.170 ⇒ 00:38:18.019 David Cohen: that’s why I exist now. It’s like, I’m growing into that problem too, right? It’s like, helping that person get there.

361 00:38:18.330 ⇒ 00:38:23.589 Uttam Kumaran: So what you’ll need to do is, like, you’ll need to find… I mean, you’ll just need to find people

362 00:38:23.980 ⇒ 00:38:29.209 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, but this is the thing, like, I… you know how many people I talked to when I helped, and this shit didn’t go anywhere?

363 00:38:29.360 ⇒ 00:38:32.480 Uttam Kumaran: So many! So many, and like….

364 00:38:32.480 ⇒ 00:38:36.750 David Cohen: Like, at some point… Try building a business model around it, then….

365 00:38:36.750 ⇒ 00:38:44.369 Uttam Kumaran: No, your business model is dealing with a lot of folks like that, and part of it is, like, you just have to get… you have to get tighter on qualifying.

366 00:38:44.480 ⇒ 00:38:45.859 Uttam Kumaran: And making sure that, like.

367 00:38:46.200 ⇒ 00:38:47.660 David Cohen: Yeah, the….

368 00:38:47.660 ⇒ 00:38:48.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

369 00:38:48.110 ⇒ 00:39:08.060 David Cohen: The reason I asked about him specifically is he reached out, we did a… he wanted to do a workshop for a client, but it was all sort of, like, loosey-goosey in terms of scoping, like, and so when we ended up doing it, like, we ended up, like, just scrapping the workshops as part of the scope in the end, and I don’t know, it left a weird taste in my….

370 00:39:08.300 ⇒ 00:39:13.529 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s the… what you’re gonna find is, again, like, you’re gonna find people that are just trying a lot of things.

371 00:39:13.530 ⇒ 00:39:15.050 David Cohen: Yeah, like, thanks.

372 00:39:15.050 ⇒ 00:39:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: And what you’re gonna… you’re just gonna get a better, Spidey sense for if this is…

373 00:39:21.240 ⇒ 00:39:24.109 Uttam Kumaran: But dude, it’s tough, because you put yourself in his shoes.

374 00:39:24.520 ⇒ 00:39:26.700 Uttam Kumaran: He’s like, fuck it, we’re gonna try this.

375 00:39:28.050 ⇒ 00:39:29.070 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I don’t know.

376 00:39:29.070 ⇒ 00:39:33.460 David Cohen: It’s also, like, I’ve been around this business long enough to know when a client.

377 00:39:33.460 ⇒ 00:39:35.659 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you know more than me, like, you know more than….

378 00:39:35.660 ⇒ 00:39:36.050 David Cohen: So, ….

379 00:39:36.050 ⇒ 00:39:36.890 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I’m saying, like….

380 00:39:36.890 ⇒ 00:39:50.159 David Cohen: The real problem is that, like, I did not listen to my gut on this. I was like, this has red flags, and I should not take this client, and I still took it, and that’s, like, a rookie mistake of, like, owning your own business, of just wanting the client.

381 00:39:50.160 ⇒ 00:39:52.859 Uttam Kumaran: I still do, dude, I still take… I still take…

382 00:39:53.070 ⇒ 00:40:07.109 Uttam Kumaran: once a week, I still get caught by one of these, because, dude, it also comes in all weird ways. I’ll have someone I really respect be like, hey, can you talk to my friend? He’s really, really great. And I’m like, sure. And then I talk to him, and I’m like.

383 00:40:07.860 ⇒ 00:40:10.079 Uttam Kumaran: Fuck, like, why did I take… so….

384 00:40:10.080 ⇒ 00:40:10.930 David Cohen: That’ll work.

385 00:40:10.930 ⇒ 00:40:18.250 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think it ever ends. What I benefit is now I have other people to take those first calls, which is… which is great.

386 00:40:18.540 ⇒ 00:40:31.249 Uttam Kumaran: You know? And at any time I, like, work with your partner, I try to go all in, where I’m like, let’s… case studies this, let’s… let’s, like… I want to show that we’re putting in a great effort, and even if it doesn’t work, it’s not because we didn’t try hard enough.

387 00:40:31.450 ⇒ 00:40:35.510 Uttam Kumaran: Or that we were like, we’re just talking and talking and talking, and it doesn’t get anywhere.

388 00:40:36.030 ⇒ 00:40:47.619 David Cohen: Yeah, so… so regardless, if you, if you know or run into any other consultancies, right, like, obviously, would love an intro to them, especially if they’re in the data space or AI spaces.

389 00:40:47.620 ⇒ 00:40:52.659 Uttam Kumaran: I have… okay, so I just… I just… the meeting I was coming back from was with this woman, …

390 00:40:52.880 ⇒ 00:40:54.439 Uttam Kumaran: She’s the real deal.

391 00:40:55.140 ⇒ 00:41:00.169 Uttam Kumaran: like, she would not waste your time. Her name is, …

392 00:41:00.520 ⇒ 00:41:05.929 Uttam Kumaran: I literally just probably just fucking met with her. Oh, Ashley, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

393 00:41:07.450 ⇒ 00:41:14.930 David Cohen: I’m meeting with a lot of people these days. The, like, amount of meetings that I take on just, like, to network with people these days is crazy.

394 00:41:16.190 ⇒ 00:41:16.870 Uttam Kumaran: Dude.

395 00:41:17.280 ⇒ 00:41:24.060 Uttam Kumaran: like, I’m on a different… I’m on a different planet, like, I’ve never been this locked in in my life, but….

396 00:41:24.600 ⇒ 00:41:25.030 David Cohen: Like, I don’.

397 00:41:25.030 ⇒ 00:41:32.119 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, Extremely, extremely difficult. So I just met with Ashley, really funny story.

398 00:41:33.150 ⇒ 00:41:39.919 David Cohen: So I connect… yeah, I connected with this, this person. She actually, we talked a while back, and then it ended up, like.

399 00:41:40.090 ⇒ 00:41:46.340 David Cohen: She was, like, interested, but it didn’t lead to anything meaningful, but yeah, I met Ashley, because you’re both Austin-based, right?

400 00:41:46.340 ⇒ 00:41:52.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, she’s extremely busy, like, and she just had an 8-month-old.

401 00:41:52.510 ⇒ 00:42:02.550 Uttam Kumaran: Or she has an 8-month-old, or a 6-month-old, so she’s extremely busy personally, so, like… but this is someone who I met, she’s doing a full, a lot of Databricks healthcare-related AI work.

402 00:42:03.280 ⇒ 00:42:05.649 Uttam Kumaran: So you have a health connection there.

403 00:42:06.100 ⇒ 00:42:09.680 Uttam Kumaran: But one problem is, I… she’s just like.

404 00:42:10.090 ⇒ 00:42:11.950 Uttam Kumaran: Packed to the gills would work.

405 00:42:12.140 ⇒ 00:42:19.850 Uttam Kumaran: So, for her, it would be framing it as, like, this is pretty turnkey. If you have existing business that you want to turn this on for, we can turn it on.

406 00:42:20.100 ⇒ 00:42:23.670 David Cohen: Yeah, if I’m being honest, I think that this one, I already burnt, like.

407 00:42:23.670 ⇒ 00:42:24.350 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. As far as….

408 00:42:24.350 ⇒ 00:42:37.909 David Cohen: No, so, like, I… because I talked to her a couple months ago, and it went well, like, and I liked her, and I think she liked what I was saying, but it’s just, like, it never led to anything meaningful, and we just sort of let… I let it die, and so, like, I… that was… I just chalk it up to, like.

409 00:42:38.120 ⇒ 00:42:41.460 Uttam Kumaran: No, dude, you should always come back, you should always follow up, like….

410 00:42:41.460 ⇒ 00:42:45.919 David Cohen: Well, I think I will, but, like, it’s a matter of, like, having something of value to say.

411 00:42:45.920 ⇒ 00:43:00.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’ll need the… you’ll need, like, what the… what to… what to nudge on. And yeah, I’ll tell you, the other company, I know a guy who I’m gonna see tomorrow. Also, if… I was gonna… I was gonna text you, but I was gonna call you today. I’m having some people over tomorrow, in case you’re in town.

412 00:43:00.370 ⇒ 00:43:01.240 Uttam Kumaran: But….

413 00:43:01.240 ⇒ 00:43:02.130 David Cohen: Unfortunately not.

414 00:43:02.130 ⇒ 00:43:03.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I don’t know.

415 00:43:03.200 ⇒ 00:43:05.600 David Cohen: It’s my wife’s birthday on Sunday.

416 00:43:05.600 ⇒ 00:43:07.350 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay, okay, okay.

417 00:43:07.460 ⇒ 00:43:12.479 Uttam Kumaran: I have a friend at this company, Kiris, They’re very big, though.

418 00:43:12.790 ⇒ 00:43:20.760 Uttam Kumaran: … he’s a delivery lead there, kind of a big guy. I’m gonna see him tomorrow, I can… Plug.

419 00:43:22.710 ⇒ 00:43:26.100 David Cohen: Yeah, I mean, if you think this would be a good intro, would love to meet them.

420 00:43:26.360 ⇒ 00:43:29.340 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, so I’ll talk to him. When I see him tomorrow, I’ll mention it.

421 00:43:29.900 ⇒ 00:43:32.740 Uttam Kumaran: Just good guy to know, in consulting.

422 00:43:32.890 ⇒ 00:43:35.839 Uttam Kumaran: trying to think if, like, there’s anyone else I’ve met recently

423 00:43:41.850 ⇒ 00:43:43.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah….

424 00:43:43.450 ⇒ 00:43:57.029 David Cohen: Basically, the, like, the persona is, if you run into somebody, and they run a consulting firm like us in data, or in AI, and they are struggling to either sell more or to get their shit together to grow their company, that’s who I want to be.

425 00:43:57.030 ⇒ 00:44:04.339 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think what you’ll find in Vixel is there’s some folks like me and us, and there’s some people that are like.

426 00:44:04.830 ⇒ 00:44:06.330 Uttam Kumaran: Not like us.

427 00:44:06.330 ⇒ 00:44:10.130 David Cohen: Well, I don’t… I haven’t followed up with… I did follow up, I just haven’t heard back for….

428 00:44:10.130 ⇒ 00:44:23.459 Uttam Kumaran: Their… their qualification process, too, is just getting better slowly, like… but they’re also, like, they get percent in equity, and they… I don’t… but I don’t think… they didn’t qualify us as much as they should have.

429 00:44:23.520 ⇒ 00:44:27.719 David Cohen: Yes, do I believe in us? Yes. Does everybody in the cohort believe in themselves? Yes, but like….

430 00:44:28.740 ⇒ 00:44:36.059 Uttam Kumaran: I could… I would say if you ask them, like, there’s only a couple people in their whole cohort that are, like, really showing a lot of promise. There’s a lot of people that

431 00:44:36.430 ⇒ 00:44:39.030 Uttam Kumaran: They’re just investors, you know, they’re advisors.

432 00:44:39.460 ⇒ 00:44:56.550 David Cohen: So I guess the thing with Vixel is that I am trying to get a better sense for, like, how I can remain plugged in with them meaningfully, because, like, I talked to Vishnu, and she’s like, yeah, just sign up for, like, our partner directory, or whatever the fuck. I just don’t know what that even looks like. I don’t know what I signed up for, so, like, I don’t….

433 00:44:56.550 ⇒ 00:45:02.700 Uttam Kumaran: It’s an Airtable, it’s an… I can show you, it’s an Airtable that we have access to. It’s not, like, it’s not gonna drive anything meaningful.

434 00:45:02.700 ⇒ 00:45:05.220 David Cohen: I guess, am I in it? Like, I don’t… I don’t even know.

435 00:45:05.450 ⇒ 00:45:12.609 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but dude, nope. I’m telling you, everybody who’s in Vixel are business owners. I’m not, like, starting my day looking at the partner directory.

436 00:45:12.610 ⇒ 00:45:13.480 David Cohen: Yeah, exactly.

437 00:45:13.480 ⇒ 00:45:16.900 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not even thinking about that, like, it’s not even….

438 00:45:16.900 ⇒ 00:45:20.999 David Cohen: Obviously, so, like, I’m trying to think of, like, how do I stay plugged in with the.

439 00:45:21.000 ⇒ 00:45:24.689 Uttam Kumaran: What you should do is you should go find… you should…

440 00:45:25.100 ⇒ 00:45:29.370 Uttam Kumaran: go look at all Vixel companies, and just DM them and say.

441 00:45:29.370 ⇒ 00:45:30.410 David Cohen: August, like….

442 00:45:30.410 ⇒ 00:45:34.240 Uttam Kumaran: That’s it. And you should say, I just presented at Vixel, you guys would be a great.

443 00:45:34.240 ⇒ 00:45:34.710 David Cohen: ….

444 00:45:34.710 ⇒ 00:45:36.830 Uttam Kumaran: Russ, here’s something, that’s it.

445 00:45:36.990 ⇒ 00:45:39.579 David Cohen: Is the list of Vixel companies on the website?

446 00:45:40.240 ⇒ 00:45:42.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think so.

447 00:45:42.980 ⇒ 00:45:50.420 Uttam Kumaran: If not, I can get you. I also, I think, for the most part, people should put on their… I don’t know if we have it on LinkedIn, but yeah, their portfolio is completely on their website.

448 00:45:50.800 ⇒ 00:45:53.250 Uttam Kumaran: We’re there, look, we’re front, we’re front and center.

449 00:45:54.220 ⇒ 00:45:58.279 David Cohen: There, because you guys are probably one of the more successful companies in the portfolio.

450 00:45:58.280 ⇒ 00:46:05.520 Uttam Kumaran: But hey, not yet, but dude, you gotta knock on… you have to knock on, like, everything around you for saying that right now.

451 00:46:05.520 ⇒ 00:46:15.350 David Cohen: you have… like, the weird thing now is that, like, I have so much context for what everybody else is doing in our space that, like, I’m like, you are, like, legit at top 5%.

452 00:46:15.770 ⇒ 00:46:20.769 Uttam Kumaran: I appreciate it, but, like, dude, I’m still not sleeping enough, we’re not there yet. So I will check.

453 00:46:20.770 ⇒ 00:46:23.809 David Cohen: I know you’re not… I know you’re not happy about it, but… but you….

454 00:46:23.810 ⇒ 00:46:29.360 Uttam Kumaran: But we’re trying, but I also don’t look… you know me, I don’t look left to right, I look up.

455 00:46:29.650 ⇒ 00:46:39.800 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I look, I’m like, what is key… like, for me to describe Kiris as, like, a legit comment, what do they do? Like, yeah, but I appreciate it. We’re trying, we’re… every… every day, we’re like…

456 00:46:40.280 ⇒ 00:46:48.410 Uttam Kumaran: we’re going for it, so… but the way I can prove it to you is by selling some fucking workshops, so… that’s what I’m gonna… that’s what I’m gonna try to do, so….

457 00:46:48.410 ⇒ 00:46:52.309 David Cohen: No, so then, so yeah, other than that, …

458 00:46:52.790 ⇒ 00:47:07.540 David Cohen: obviously, like, we’ll continue searching for stuff on my end, and … like, I definitely do want to do more content stuff together, that’s one. And then, like, the in-person event in Austin would be great, I just need to sort out the dates.

459 00:47:08.090 ⇒ 00:47:11.470 David Cohen: So you sent me a discount code for the thing, right?

460 00:47:11.870 ⇒ 00:47:13.910 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna email it to you, yeah.

461 00:47:13.910 ⇒ 00:47:14.939 David Cohen: Oh, okay, perfect.

462 00:47:15.700 ⇒ 00:47:17.350 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll slack it to you after this.

463 00:47:17.850 ⇒ 00:47:22.259 David Cohen: Sure, … There was something else I was gonna ask you.

464 00:47:22.500 ⇒ 00:47:35.439 David Cohen: So, the weird thing that’s happening, and this is more, like, just… I would love to get your perspective on this as, like, a potential offering that I’m trying to grow into. Because I’m meeting with so many consultants, like, across everywhere.

465 00:47:35.440 ⇒ 00:47:53.160 David Cohen: there’s basically, like, a… like, a matchmaking service, like, unofficially, that I’m creating, where, like, I’m tagging people with partners and, like, other things, basically, that you don’t have access to otherwise. I just don’t know how to monetize that. Like, I’m like, I can be a connector between, like, different consultancies and, like, different….

466 00:47:53.160 ⇒ 00:47:59.789 Uttam Kumaran: This is the… this is the fallacy of being the glue guys. You can’t monetize that, you have to monetize something else.

467 00:48:00.160 ⇒ 00:48:01.420 David Cohen: Right, that’s the problem, it’s like.

468 00:48:01.420 ⇒ 00:48:05.269 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the thing, dude, because no one will trust your matches, like…

469 00:48:05.740 ⇒ 00:48:11.320 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just anything, it’s like, anytime you start up your marketplace, you’re, like, kind of like a glue guy.

470 00:48:11.590 ⇒ 00:48:14.590 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve seen a lot of people do this, but, like, you have to, like…

471 00:48:15.420 ⇒ 00:48:20.210 Uttam Kumaran: you should monetize in a diff… I don’t know, I feel like some other way.

472 00:48:20.570 ⇒ 00:48:22.070 David Cohen: The pro… so the situation.

473 00:48:22.070 ⇒ 00:48:29.930 Uttam Kumaran: You should just do webinars. If you’re meeting all the people, you should just say, like, I’m doing a… I put you on a newsletter, webinar, like, try to capture the audience, for sure.

474 00:48:30.140 ⇒ 00:48:36.959 David Cohen: Well, the idea is that, like, so I’m part of… I, like, ran into this guy that runs a company called Thrive, if you’ve heard of it.

475 00:48:37.070 ⇒ 00:48:38.610 David Cohen: So, you know what Hampton is?

476 00:48:38.850 ⇒ 00:48:40.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Hampton, yeah.

477 00:48:40.040 ⇒ 00:48:59.410 David Cohen: It’s like Hampton, but for, like, startups, as opposed to, like, people that have already made it, so to speak. Yeah. So it’s more or less like a community that you join, and then there’s, like, a community of other founders that are vetted, and, like, you talk to… and they do these, like, core groups, and, you know, you talk to your people in your core group, and you share experiences, like a therapy group.

478 00:48:59.530 ⇒ 00:49:12.220 David Cohen: for founders. The problem is that that is… it’s not vetted enough that the founders are in your same space. So, like, my core group is with, like, some rando and, like, a lawyer, and then, like, some, like.

479 00:49:12.220 ⇒ 00:49:20.719 Uttam Kumaran: They’re really… those groups are really, like, sexy, because… but I just, like, I don’t know, I found you….

480 00:49:20.720 ⇒ 00:49:27.389 David Cohen: like, the problem with it is I need people that understand what I’m talking about in the context of me, and not them.

481 00:49:27.390 ⇒ 00:49:33.060 Uttam Kumaran: But you could also just do it in an isolated way, like, you could just say, I’m just that, just for data consultancies.

482 00:49:33.060 ⇒ 00:49:47.260 David Cohen: That’s what I’m getting at, is that I think that the model for what I’m saying, for that connection, is having a group like that that is specifically targeted at consultancies that work in data, or work in AI, but, like, only for them, because it’s, like.

483 00:49:47.260 ⇒ 00:49:56.519 David Cohen: Otherwise, it’s just like… I mean, I love talking to marketing people, and I get a lot of great ideas, and I love talking to accountants, and lawyers, or whatever, and that’s fun, but it’s not…

484 00:49:57.080 ⇒ 00:49:57.659 David Cohen: Not what I.

485 00:49:57.660 ⇒ 00:50:13.400 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I mean, dude, I only, like, for me, I only want to talk to ex-consultants, or current consultants, and ideally, I want them to be 2 to… two plus X bigger than me. That’s who, when I talk to, I… I get a lot out of, because I basically, I’m like.

486 00:50:13.570 ⇒ 00:50:18.500 Uttam Kumaran: hey, I’m trying to hire for this role, here’s what I need. What is that? And then they give me.

487 00:50:18.500 ⇒ 00:50:22.979 David Cohen: I’m glad I… I’m glad I made the cut despite being significantly below the 2X.

488 00:50:22.980 ⇒ 00:50:28.820 Uttam Kumaran: No, but dude, you’ve worked in this world for so long, like, I have no back… I only know what I know.

489 00:50:29.040 ⇒ 00:50:36.349 Uttam Kumaran: from dogging on consultants my whole career, like, that’s all I know. And then reading books, like, that’s it, so….

490 00:50:36.350 ⇒ 00:50:42.080 David Cohen: So, speaking of, did you, did you ever finish, or get back to Alfredo? Did he, like, did you ever finish that up? I, like, I got.

491 00:50:42.080 ⇒ 00:50:44.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s on that. We brought on that person.

492 00:50:44.790 ⇒ 00:50:51.059 Uttam Kumaran: But dude, this is the thing, people just, like… people just, like, they… I get it, it’s sales, they’re gonna try stuff, but I’m like…

493 00:50:51.470 ⇒ 00:51:08.250 Uttam Kumaran: if I’m not getting back to you, I just… I’m fucking busy, and… or maybe I’m thinking about it still, like, I didn’t get… internally, we’re trying to hire for the sales coordinator, we’re trying to bring someone on from them, but they’re in Mexico, and we found a better candidate here in Austin for a little cheaper.

494 00:51:08.340 ⇒ 00:51:20.149 Uttam Kumaran: And I was like, fuck, did I… but I also told them I would take them, like, okay, what we’re gonna… but then I was negotiating with them to take some stuff off their contract, and then I was dragging my feet. I know, but like….

495 00:51:20.610 ⇒ 00:51:28.150 David Cohen: Two, two thoughts on the, like, intros front. So, I met this company, also does staff augmentation, also out of Latin America.

496 00:51:28.290 ⇒ 00:51:31.099 David Cohen: But… do you want to meet them? Like, do you want to know their.

497 00:51:31.100 ⇒ 00:51:34.729 Uttam Kumaran: If it’s on the recruiting side, because, dude, what I do…

498 00:51:35.040 ⇒ 00:51:39.530 Uttam Kumaran: and this is just, like, again, I don’t know, I’ve become a recruiter, is, like, when I get an open JD,

499 00:51:39.690 ⇒ 00:51:54.589 Uttam Kumaran: I send it to, like, 6 or 7 different people. It’s a mix of people that are, like, solos, that… who are, like, I’m just… I know other people, it’s a mix of blue people, and then we post on LinkedIn, and then I… all I do is I get a bunch of resumes, and then I….

500 00:51:54.590 ⇒ 00:51:55.460 David Cohen: make the best.

501 00:51:55.460 ⇒ 00:51:58.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, because I don’t have to sign anything until we hire, so….

502 00:51:58.470 ⇒ 00:52:06.850 David Cohen: Well, so the only downside of this company that I met is that they still… like, you won’t be able to hire permanently from them, like, they retain… it’s like a.

503 00:52:06.850 ⇒ 00:52:09.469 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fine, that’s fine. For me, it just comes down to price.

504 00:52:09.620 ⇒ 00:52:20.580 Uttam Kumaran: And talent. So, like, if it’s another source that I can look at a resume for, and then we’re also getting better where I’m having candidates do loom screens, because I don’t have time to, like.

505 00:52:20.810 ⇒ 00:52:25.840 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t have time to interview every… so what we do is, the Loom screen works as, like, a great way to test

506 00:52:26.150 ⇒ 00:52:27.850 Uttam Kumaran: like, their….

507 00:52:27.850 ⇒ 00:52:28.850 David Cohen: communication skills.

508 00:52:28.850 ⇒ 00:52:32.879 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Can I even get Loom? Dude, some people can’t even, like, get Loom set up.

509 00:52:33.040 ⇒ 00:52:39.369 Uttam Kumaran: then they talk, and it’s clear they’re reading something. Like, those are the things that I’m like, we’re a remote company.

510 00:52:39.860 ⇒ 00:52:41.950 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s a way to suss that out.

511 00:52:42.170 ⇒ 00:52:47.040 Uttam Kumaran: You know, or, like, we hop on someone and their videos, like, I have to get… we have to, like, screen some of that out.

512 00:52:47.590 ⇒ 00:53:04.989 David Cohen: And then the other one I was gonna run by you is there’s this company called Baoplan that I met recently. Check it out, I thought… so I met them, basically, he was, like, pitching me on using this myself, and I was like, I don’t have any use for this, because I don’t code, so, like, I don’t really… I don’t build…

513 00:53:05.800 ⇒ 00:53:14.800 David Cohen: you know, data lakes, so, like, I would have zero use for it, but I thought that you might find it interesting, so check it out and let me know what you think. If you want an intro.

514 00:53:14.950 ⇒ 00:53:17.720 David Cohen: He asked me if I knew any other consultancies, so….

515 00:53:19.010 ⇒ 00:53:21.459 Uttam Kumaran: But what… did these guys… are these guys, like, a new company?

516 00:53:22.040 ⇒ 00:53:23.290 David Cohen: Relatively, yeah.

517 00:53:24.300 ⇒ 00:53:27.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m gonna… well, like, probably not.

518 00:53:28.110 ⇒ 00:53:33.279 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, because I’m getting so many asks for demos like this, and I’m like….

519 00:53:34.490 ⇒ 00:53:35.150 David Cohen: There.

520 00:53:35.150 ⇒ 00:53:37.800 Uttam Kumaran: I will go check… I’ll go probably check out their product.

521 00:53:37.800 ⇒ 00:53:40.130 David Cohen: I mean, check it out, like, if you find it interesting.

522 00:53:40.130 ⇒ 00:53:42.220 Uttam Kumaran: Were they legit? He’s, like, a legit dude?

523 00:53:42.220 ⇒ 00:53:51.720 David Cohen: Yeah, yeah, he’s in… he’s in the Bay Area, like, he has a strong background. This is, like, a legit person that, like, it’s like, you know, I would not have taken this meeting if I didn’t think he was interesting enough, like….

524 00:53:52.700 ⇒ 00:53:54.339 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay, okay.

525 00:53:54.340 ⇒ 00:53:55.010 David Cohen: ….

526 00:53:55.190 ⇒ 00:54:13.459 Uttam Kumaran: I always follow these guys, because, dude, I’m still looking at every AI product that comes out. I just, like, people think that I’m, like, the gatekeeper for, like, all these accounts, and then they want to, like, talk to me, and then they sell… and I’m like, dude, your product low-key sucks, so, like, I can’t sell it, because I’m, like, selling Snowflake.

527 00:54:13.780 ⇒ 00:54:20.679 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, I’m not gonna be like, oh, I love Bowl plan, like, it’s not… doesn’t work like that. Like, you’re not gonna demo me.

528 00:54:21.370 ⇒ 00:54:22.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so….

529 00:54:22.830 ⇒ 00:54:29.499 David Cohen: Well, so yeah, I mean, check them out. If you think it’s worth a conversation, just let me know, and I can make an intro.

530 00:54:29.980 ⇒ 00:54:31.379 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay, cool.

531 00:54:31.480 ⇒ 00:54:36.790 David Cohen: Then the last thing I wanted to touch on before we wrap up is on the… on the contract front. Anything else that you need from.

532 00:54:36.790 ⇒ 00:54:39.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s just on… no, it’s completely on me.

533 00:54:39.980 ⇒ 00:54:45.580 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna put something in my calendar to do… I have one more meeting, and then I’ll just try to get that done today.

534 00:54:46.080 ⇒ 00:54:55.769 David Cohen: Cool. And then, I’ll be… I’ll be in tomorrow, so just, shoot me a note if you want to go back and forth on it, or anything else. I don’t really have any more thoughts other than the ones I sent you already, so….

535 00:54:56.780 ⇒ 00:54:58.329 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, okay.

536 00:54:59.400 ⇒ 00:55:06.549 David Cohen: Yeah, I think the main one was just, like, adding that language to the… the, like, financial section to be like, we’ll just discuss it ad hoc.

537 00:55:06.550 ⇒ 00:55:08.029 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

538 00:55:08.030 ⇒ 00:55:14.499 David Cohen: So, I mean, like, you tell me, right? But, like, we’ll just do it as probably, like, SOWs individually.

539 00:55:14.500 ⇒ 00:55:25.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s exactly it, yeah. Like, unless you have a very clear structure on, like, it’s this price for these things, then we’ll just look at it, everything that comes in, and that’s it, yeah.

540 00:55:26.010 ⇒ 00:55:39.359 David Cohen: Yeah, because I guess the… I mean, like, usually I would do, like, an MSA, and then SOWs follow it, but we already signed the partnership thing, so we don’t have to do an MSA. Yeah. And then we’ll just do individual SOWs that I can send you on a, you know, case-by-case.

541 00:55:39.850 ⇒ 00:55:41.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay, okay, that’s fine.

542 00:55:41.260 ⇒ 00:55:52.729 David Cohen: I guess, how are we… how are we gonna work that? So let’s say the NEFCO people, say, yes, we want to do this, so what is the next step there for you and I? Like, we have to scope the project, obviously.

543 00:55:52.760 ⇒ 00:55:53.530 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

544 00:55:53.650 ⇒ 00:56:03.299 David Cohen: So, you would want to do… scope the project, define the final price, I give you my final price, and then we scope the SOW and send it to them with, like, my price plus yours, correct?

545 00:56:03.300 ⇒ 00:56:04.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yeah.

546 00:56:04.800 ⇒ 00:56:05.390 David Cohen: Fair.

547 00:56:06.100 ⇒ 00:56:10.600 David Cohen: That works. What are you… what are you thinking about pricing your time at for that?

548 00:56:12.070 ⇒ 00:56:19.959 David Cohen: or I guess better question is, how are you gonna work it in terms of assigning people to it? Are you gonna do it yourself, or are you gonna send other people to do it?

549 00:56:21.750 ⇒ 00:56:26.270 Uttam Kumaran: It depends on what the project is. Like, if we sell them an additional workshop, then it’s whatever you say.

550 00:56:26.410 ⇒ 00:56:29.079 Uttam Kumaran: And then… At that point, like….

551 00:56:29.080 ⇒ 00:56:32.200 David Cohen: If it’s implementation work, I don’t care who you send to it, I guess.

552 00:56:32.200 ⇒ 00:56:47.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s all my team. So, I’ll come in, usually these days, I’m coming in for AI work as a solutions architect, but yeah, it’ll be AI engineers on our team. But it’ll get priced… it’ll get priced. Typically, we price on, like, a monthly fee basis, for the most part.

553 00:56:47.620 ⇒ 00:56:53.149 David Cohen: As far… as far as the workshops go, where possible, I would love to have either you or Robert there.

554 00:56:53.150 ⇒ 00:56:56.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, oh, for… for all the workstop stuff, it’ll be me.

555 00:56:57.810 ⇒ 00:57:02.529 Uttam Kumaran: Because there’s nobody… there’s no one senior enough on my side to… Dance like this, so….

556 00:57:02.530 ⇒ 00:57:06.820 David Cohen: Yeah, but I think as we grow it, it would make sense to probably train somebody.

557 00:57:06.820 ⇒ 00:57:12.189 Uttam Kumaran: Whoever the solutions… yeah, we’re gonna bring… we’re gonna end up having, like, an AI solutions architect.

558 00:57:12.190 ⇒ 00:57:14.789 David Cohen: Okay. On our team, and that person will become….

559 00:57:14.860 ⇒ 00:57:15.630 Uttam Kumaran: Me.

560 00:57:15.890 ⇒ 00:57:19.330 David Cohen: Yeah, because I also would love to step out of, like, just.

561 00:57:19.330 ⇒ 00:57:22.869 Uttam Kumaran: You need that person. Yeah, you need your workshop architect.

562 00:57:22.870 ⇒ 00:57:26.320 David Cohen: Do you know somebody that will work with me, but not want to get paid?

563 00:57:27.010 ⇒ 00:57:36.159 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, I don’t know anyone that has your type of shit at all. I’ve never met anyone like this. Although, I’m meeting some… there’s some consultants coming tomorrow, I’ll ask them.

564 00:57:36.330 ⇒ 00:57:42.419 Uttam Kumaran: Like, there’s some UI people coming tomorrow, and this key risk guy, there’s some pretty senior UI people coming tomorrow. I’ll ask them.

565 00:57:42.420 ⇒ 00:57:45.699 David Cohen: If you meet any… if you meet any cool people that are willing to work for free.

566 00:57:46.280 ⇒ 00:57:52.069 Uttam Kumaran: That’s up to you to convince them. You think I’m gonna lead with that? That you’re not gonna get a phone call.

567 00:57:52.070 ⇒ 00:57:55.439 David Cohen: You have the greatest company in the world, they just don’t have any money.

568 00:57:55.590 ⇒ 00:58:00.259 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where you gotta just… you gotta sell, brother. You gotta sell the vision.

569 00:58:00.260 ⇒ 00:58:04.350 David Cohen: So I, I think I just, you know, will give out equity until, like, I have enough.

570 00:58:04.350 ⇒ 00:58:05.419 Uttam Kumaran: people to skip.

571 00:58:05.590 ⇒ 00:58:10.300 Uttam Kumaran: I wonder if you can find any, like, EY LATAM or EY Europe….

572 00:58:11.040 ⇒ 00:58:24.039 David Cohen: No, I think… so I already have some people lined up that I would want to bring on, but I… what I want to do is, like, I’ll give up, like, a small chunk of equity to bring in the right people that I want to evolve into. I just don’t have money to, like, pay people to even consider it.

573 00:58:24.690 ⇒ 00:58:25.600 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.

574 00:58:25.970 ⇒ 00:58:42.630 David Cohen: But anyways, yeah, let’s, let’s wrap it up there. So yeah, let me know between today and tomorrow if you have any questions or thoughts on the contract piece, so we want to get that squared up before Tuesday. And then, yeah, let me know who you end up meeting tomorrow. If there’s anybody you can make interest to, that’d be great.

575 00:58:43.010 ⇒ 00:58:44.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, perfect.

576 00:58:44.410 ⇒ 00:58:47.970 David Cohen: And then we’re good for Tuesday, where I think we’re all set there, so….

577 00:58:47.970 ⇒ 00:58:53.399 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yeah. I’ll put a meeting right before that, so we can chat for, like, probably 15 minutes or 10 minutes before.

578 00:58:53.400 ⇒ 00:58:54.720 David Cohen: That works. Yeah, go ahead.

579 00:58:54.890 ⇒ 00:58:55.550 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

580 00:58:55.990 ⇒ 00:58:56.410 David Cohen: Cool.

581 00:58:56.720 ⇒ 00:58:57.740 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you, dude.

582 00:58:57.950 ⇒ 00:58:59.100 David Cohen: Have a good long weekend.

583 00:58:59.100 ⇒ 00:58:59.970 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, bye.