Meeting Title: Customer I.O. Lifecycle Marketing Sync Date: 2025-12-11 Meeting participants: Judd Kuehling, Zoran Selinger
WEBVTT
1 00:00:00.000 ⇒ 00:00:16.440 Zoran Selinger: It’s okay if I record the meeting, so I can rewatch it if I miss anything? Yeah, especially because I’m just kind of, getting, getting into the… the flow with, what you’ve been doing with, with Henry, and, so I just want to see…
2 00:00:17.110 ⇒ 00:00:18.599 Zoran Selinger: Where you are.
3 00:00:20.250 ⇒ 00:00:21.170 Zoran Selinger: Sorry.
4 00:00:21.540 ⇒ 00:00:30.440 Zoran Selinger: where you are with, with everything, where do you need assistance, and, I… I haven’t really got a, got an intro there.
5 00:00:30.610 ⇒ 00:00:33.040 Zoran Selinger: So I really wanted to talk to you.
6 00:00:33.160 ⇒ 00:00:43.230 Zoran Selinger: Great. To get an intro from you, and see where I can assist you the best, the best, where you need the assistance the most, and what we can cover.
7 00:00:43.440 ⇒ 00:00:55.089 Zoran Selinger: I am going to work, so by the end of this month, I really want to have a good, good plan for, what we are going to work on for… in Q1.
8 00:00:55.910 ⇒ 00:01:05.059 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, I’m gonna also have an… have ideas, but really wanna kinda see where, what your needs are.
9 00:01:05.170 ⇒ 00:01:07.449 Zoran Selinger: In this… in this area.
10 00:01:08.180 ⇒ 00:01:09.090 Judd Kuehling: Sounds good.
11 00:01:10.440 ⇒ 00:01:21.290 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so… You are… are you most… you’re mostly working on… on retention, right?
12 00:01:21.500 ⇒ 00:01:27.489 Judd Kuehling: Right, so I’m working on retention and lifecycle marketing, and most of that is through…
13 00:01:27.710 ⇒ 00:01:47.169 Judd Kuehling: Customer I.O. So, Customer I.O. is the platform that we’re using for email, and we’re using them for SMS as well, because we’re… Twilio is feeding through them, and so everything is going through them. Everything is automatically UTM tagged on the email side.
14 00:01:47.260 ⇒ 00:02:01.289 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, that’s good. I see that in our, on our side. I’m happy. Can you talk to everyone about, about, tags, and people are adhering to what’s agreed, what’s agreed not, so that’s, that’s great.
15 00:02:01.290 ⇒ 00:02:07.330 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, yeah, and then the SMS side, it’s, usually auto-tagged, and sometimes I have to actually manually…
16 00:02:07.500 ⇒ 00:02:11.920 Judd Kuehling: put in the tags, but I’m always doing that, and so everything should be tagged
17 00:02:12.250 ⇒ 00:02:28.890 Judd Kuehling: coming out of customer I.O, so that’s a good sign. When I look at… when I look at GA, like, I get… I’m not really clear if I’m looking at the right thing a lot of times, so I’m not really seeing, like, quite what I expect to see, in…
18 00:02:28.990 ⇒ 00:02:37.180 Judd Kuehling: And then in, Tableau, Henry’s built me a report that I primarily use, and I use it on a weekly basis, looking at
19 00:02:37.300 ⇒ 00:02:38.800 Judd Kuehling: the,
20 00:02:39.340 ⇒ 00:02:49.839 Judd Kuehling: just the orders, so I’m just looking at orders and dollar value of people that were tagged to either email or SMS.
21 00:02:49.840 ⇒ 00:02:53.350 Zoran Selinger: And then, within that, I’m separating it by…
22 00:02:53.600 ⇒ 00:03:03.199 Judd Kuehling: campaign type, so… when I think of the campaigns that I’m doing, like, 80% of them are broken into these 3 groups, and that’s Winback.
23 00:03:04.330 ⇒ 00:03:09.300 Judd Kuehling: cross-selling and abandoned cart. So, I’m using…
24 00:03:09.710 ⇒ 00:03:17.980 Judd Kuehling: letters on the campaign name to signify that. So, on all the win-back campaigns, every campaign has a WB in the name.
25 00:03:18.720 ⇒ 00:03:22.690 Judd Kuehling: On the cross-sell campaigns, every campaign has a CS in the name.
26 00:03:23.530 ⇒ 00:03:27.730 Judd Kuehling: And on the abandoned cart campaigns, every campaign has an AC in the name.
27 00:03:28.080 ⇒ 00:03:40.250 Judd Kuehling: And so Henry is using those, I believe is using that in order to categorize the email and SMS orders and dollar value into the report that he has for me.
28 00:03:40.250 ⇒ 00:03:41.110 Zoran Selinger: That’s right.
29 00:03:41.440 ⇒ 00:03:44.209 Zoran Selinger: I think that’s right, he was showing me something like that, yeah.
30 00:03:44.650 ⇒ 00:04:02.330 Judd Kuehling: But that said, I’m not seeing the volume that I’m expecting to see. Now, of course, customer I.O, shows me crazy high numbers, because they’re looking at, like, anybody… we haven’t set… we can choose the success metric, and what we have chosen is any open of the email.
31 00:04:02.330 ⇒ 00:04:03.010 Zoran Selinger: Okay.
32 00:04:03.010 ⇒ 00:04:09.259 Judd Kuehling: that creates a order in 2 days. So obviously, you could… I could open the email here, and then go to my…
33 00:04:09.560 ⇒ 00:04:14.840 Judd Kuehling: And it knows my name and my email address, and I can go to a different device and order…
34 00:04:14.980 ⇒ 00:04:28.669 Judd Kuehling: with the same email address, and Customer I.O. is tracking that as a sale, right? So obviously, we’re not going to get that from GA or from, from Tableau, so I’m not expecting, like, it to be one-to-one.
35 00:04:28.670 ⇒ 00:04:37.219 Judd Kuehling: But right now, it’s like 10% of the orders that I’m seeing in Customer I.O. is what I’m seeing in Tableau, so…
36 00:04:37.900 ⇒ 00:04:54.509 Judd Kuehling: I’m hoping to get it kind of closer to that, or, you know, closer to what I think is probably the more accurate number, and so that’s kind of been my… my request, for that Tableau report, is to be somewhere closer to…
37 00:04:54.640 ⇒ 00:04:56.659 Judd Kuehling: What seems about right.
38 00:04:57.250 ⇒ 00:05:09.799 Judd Kuehling: I don’t know if, like, you know, there’s also the question around, kind of, like, UTM tracking with people that… so, keep in mind, all my traffic, or all my customers, have come in from another source first, right?
39 00:05:09.800 ⇒ 00:05:23.150 Judd Kuehling: So everyone comes in from paid, or from organic, or from direct, or from social, or somewhere. They either order or they don’t. And eventually, I send them emails and SMS messages to get them to come back.
40 00:05:23.590 ⇒ 00:05:40.480 Judd Kuehling: to order. So I don’t know, like, kind of, if the UTM tag that they had originally is staying with them, and I’m not overwriting that… their tag, or kind of… if there’s an issue there, too, right? So, obviously, like, all of my… like I said, all my orders are the second…
41 00:05:40.830 ⇒ 00:05:42.820 Judd Kuehling: UTM tag for most of these people.
42 00:05:42.820 ⇒ 00:05:45.529 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
43 00:05:45.930 ⇒ 00:05:48.780 Zoran Selinger: lichens, for… for a lot of the… I mean.
44 00:05:48.900 ⇒ 00:06:04.739 Zoran Selinger: when we… when we do all the other marketing, we are mostly looking at the upper funnel stuff, we are… we tend to credit, you know, first touches more than… than anything… anything else. This is a completely different mindset here. We need to have
45 00:06:04.850 ⇒ 00:06:09.789 Zoran Selinger: Different metrics, different attribution models to really know… to really know.
46 00:06:09.950 ⇒ 00:06:13.779 Zoran Selinger: If your… if your campaigns are working or not.
47 00:06:13.900 ⇒ 00:06:17.890 Zoran Selinger: And we’ll… we can talk about… we can talk about that.
48 00:06:17.970 ⇒ 00:06:36.200 Zoran Selinger: I think, it is normal for you to see, low… potentially lower numbers, because simply your… your channel is completely different from almost everything else that they do at the moment in… in marketing. So, yes.
49 00:06:36.200 ⇒ 00:06:49.689 Zoran Selinger: if there’s a report that shows both, you know, Meta or Google, and your traffic as well, of course. Of course, that discrepancy will be there. And we should really
50 00:06:49.780 ⇒ 00:06:55.100 Zoran Selinger: think about a different attribution model for you.
51 00:06:55.430 ⇒ 00:06:56.080 Judd Kuehling: Yeah.
52 00:06:56.080 ⇒ 00:07:03.299 Zoran Selinger: That should be, that should be something that, I’m actually gonna write it down,
53 00:07:05.320 ⇒ 00:07:09.320 Zoran Selinger: Are there any other kind of success metrics?
54 00:07:09.650 ⇒ 00:07:17.330 Zoran Selinger: That, that you think about, apart from just the dollar value that is, that is attributed to whatever you tagged.
55 00:07:17.760 ⇒ 00:07:24.680 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, right now it’s just orders and dollar value. Eventually, you know, I would love to get deeper into kind of looking at…
56 00:07:24.990 ⇒ 00:07:28.880 Judd Kuehling: Kind of how… particular…
57 00:07:29.070 ⇒ 00:07:43.439 Judd Kuehling: tagged traffic converts versus other… like, if I have a test, and… you know, they’re equal… equal open rates on an email, equal click rates, and then they both go to the site, and one converts twice as high. I would love to look at that at some point, but…
58 00:07:43.920 ⇒ 00:07:47.150 Judd Kuehling: That’s kind of, like, deeper down the… that’s like, you know…
59 00:07:47.990 ⇒ 00:07:56.920 Judd Kuehling: version 4… version 2 and 3, you know, I don’t need that today. What I’m looking for today is just the orders and dollar values that…
60 00:07:57.330 ⇒ 00:08:02.659 Judd Kuehling: true up to what is as close to what I think it could be as possible, yeah.
61 00:08:05.400 ⇒ 00:08:10.359 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, okay, so we… yeah, we will need to… so we can, for example.
62 00:08:11.150 ⇒ 00:08:15.150 Zoran Selinger: We can, for example, have an idea of
63 00:08:15.630 ⇒ 00:08:22.499 Zoran Selinger: Of when, you know, the customer I.O. was at any touchpoint.
64 00:08:22.890 ⇒ 00:08:28.529 Zoran Selinger: At any touchpoint, an interaction.
65 00:08:29.040 ⇒ 00:08:37.400 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, that… that goes for… For the cases where… where transaction.
66 00:08:37.850 ⇒ 00:08:46.000 Zoran Selinger: Happened after your… the interaction, and any interaction with your email or… or an SMS.
67 00:08:46.120 ⇒ 00:08:48.590 Judd Kuehling: Right. We can… but we can talk about those.
68 00:08:48.590 ⇒ 00:08:55.849 Zoran Selinger: We can talk about those things. So, right now, you’re mostly, focused on, on creating,
69 00:08:56.110 ⇒ 00:09:09.050 Zoran Selinger: campaigns and emails, based on those three categories, swimbacks, cross-sells, and abandoned carts. Are… is SMS, doing the same? Yeah.
70 00:09:09.050 ⇒ 00:09:19.410 Judd Kuehling: SMS campaigns are also in those three groups, and they’re also coming through Customer I.O. I believe that, like, the UTM…
71 00:09:19.620 ⇒ 00:09:28.229 Judd Kuehling: one of the UTMs has the word Twilio in it, because Twilio is actually, like, the back end of the SMS platform for Customer I.O.
72 00:09:28.230 ⇒ 00:09:40.299 Judd Kuehling: And that, you know, the naming of the UTM is whatever, it’s fine, I think it works, it doesn’t… I don’t think we need to change it. So that… I just want to clear that up so there’s no confusion, but basically, I’m using Customer I.O. for both
73 00:09:40.820 ⇒ 00:09:47.820 Judd Kuehling: SMS and email, and SMS is just like email, it’s broken into those three categories, it’s just much, you know, smaller volume.
74 00:09:48.150 ⇒ 00:09:52.290 Judd Kuehling: And of course, you know, there’s people that get both things.
75 00:09:52.780 ⇒ 00:09:55.730 Judd Kuehling: And they get credited to…
76 00:09:56.500 ⇒ 00:10:00.829 Judd Kuehling: And I think in Customer I.O, it gives them credit for everything they touched, so it’s like…
77 00:10:00.830 ⇒ 00:10:02.119 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, that’s 5.
78 00:10:02.120 ⇒ 00:10:03.639 Judd Kuehling: things, and I order, like.
79 00:10:03.640 ⇒ 00:10:04.010 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, that’.
80 00:10:04.010 ⇒ 00:10:07.890 Judd Kuehling: Order, order, order, order, order, order, which she knows… wrong.
81 00:10:07.890 ⇒ 00:10:08.210 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
82 00:10:08.210 ⇒ 00:10:15.519 Judd Kuehling: I’m not expecting that from the, from our internal reporting or whatever, but, but maybe we need to build some kind of…
83 00:10:15.900 ⇒ 00:10:20.469 Judd Kuehling: Priority, like, last touch, or whatever it is,
84 00:10:20.900 ⇒ 00:10:22.739 Judd Kuehling: For that, yeah, that makes sense.
85 00:10:22.740 ⇒ 00:10:34.359 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I’ll think about, what are, what are… what metrics make sense here. What attribution model makes sense here. So, apart from
86 00:10:34.580 ⇒ 00:10:40.179 Zoran Selinger: From… Let’s say, trackability and measuring.
87 00:10:40.330 ⇒ 00:10:56.180 Zoran Selinger: Are you looking for assistance in ideas for campaigns, or, you know, different segmentation that we can do? This is something that, for example, Robert kind of pushes us to do for you a little bit more.
88 00:10:56.180 ⇒ 00:10:56.530 Judd Kuehling: Yeah.
89 00:10:56.530 ⇒ 00:10:58.760 Zoran Selinger: That’s the technical and reporting part.
90 00:10:58.760 ⇒ 00:10:59.129 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, yeah.
91 00:10:59.130 ⇒ 00:11:04.300 Zoran Selinger: I actually see a partner here, and, you know, I…
92 00:11:04.300 ⇒ 00:11:05.640 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, I would definitely be.
93 00:11:05.640 ⇒ 00:11:07.320 Zoran Selinger: We’ll do the education as well, yeah.
94 00:11:07.320 ⇒ 00:11:18.110 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, we could use data to figure out, kind of segments that we could target, or that were missing, or anything related to that. I’d definitely be open to that, and yeah, that would be great.
95 00:11:18.240 ⇒ 00:11:19.060 Judd Kuehling: You know.
96 00:11:19.390 ⇒ 00:11:27.510 Judd Kuehling: I’m trying to do that myself, too, so, you know, I think that, you know, any help with that would be great, but it’s not kind of a make-or-break kind of thing, yeah.
97 00:11:27.510 ⇒ 00:11:30.300 Zoran Selinger: Sure. It is… so, if…
98 00:11:30.900 ⇒ 00:11:47.669 Zoran Selinger: this is my, my role here as well. This is what… what… how we think about this. This… this trackability and measurement is only a part of this engagement, so it… we fully expect to be your partners in this.
99 00:11:48.880 ⇒ 00:12:03.939 Zoran Selinger: We want to help you do the best work you can do, and that also includes actually generating ideas, analysis, finding insights, ideas for segmentation, anything that goes with it.
100 00:12:04.210 ⇒ 00:12:04.900 Judd Kuehling: Great.
101 00:12:04.900 ⇒ 00:12:16.070 Zoran Selinger: So that’s gonna be my attempt, is I’m gonna… my plans for Q1 is also gonna include some of that, not just, you know, insights.
102 00:12:16.240 ⇒ 00:12:18.839 Zoran Selinger: Meaning, measurement, and all that.
103 00:12:18.870 ⇒ 00:12:19.880 Judd Kuehling: Right.
104 00:12:19.880 ⇒ 00:12:23.159 Zoran Selinger: So that’s… I’m gonna try to… to…
105 00:12:23.420 ⇒ 00:12:25.259 Zoran Selinger: to do as much as I can.
106 00:12:26.740 ⇒ 00:12:36.760 Zoran Selinger: And yeah, we wanna, but first, I think we should, our next conversation should really be about, about…
107 00:12:37.940 ⇒ 00:12:39.010 Zoran Selinger: metrics.
108 00:12:39.290 ⇒ 00:12:45.670 Zoran Selinger: And to really define the metrics, and how… how do you report to your higher-ups?
109 00:12:47.290 ⇒ 00:12:47.860 Judd Kuehling: That’s, yeah.
110 00:12:47.860 ⇒ 00:12:50.419 Zoran Selinger: So we need to figure that out exactly.
111 00:12:50.420 ⇒ 00:12:54.240 Judd Kuehling: Yeah. Right now, I’m using that Tableau report that Henry built.
112 00:12:55.020 ⇒ 00:13:02.650 Judd Kuehling: pretty much do everything, so, we can look at that, next, or whatever, and see, and I can kind of…
113 00:13:02.790 ⇒ 00:13:14.329 Judd Kuehling: explain, but basically, yeah, like I said, I think that the way it’s formatted and everything is fine, and it’s… the structure of it is great, I just kind of feel like it’s missing some of the…
114 00:13:14.760 ⇒ 00:13:18.039 Judd Kuehling: Traffic that it could be getting.
115 00:13:18.400 ⇒ 00:13:30.199 Zoran Selinger: Okay, okay, okay, sure, that’s fine. I think I got the context now, this, this measurement is still, is still the priority.
116 00:13:31.360 ⇒ 00:13:50.949 Zoran Selinger: So, let me, let me, look exactly what, what Henry created so far, and understand what’s, what’s below it, and, I’ll, yeah, I’ll get back to you if I have any questions, and I’ll, get back to you with some ideas on either metrics.
117 00:13:51.070 ⇒ 00:13:55.359 Zoran Selinger: And or attribution models that we should… we should look into.
118 00:13:55.360 ⇒ 00:13:56.700 Judd Kuehling: Yeah, great, perfect.
119 00:13:56.700 ⇒ 00:13:57.560 Zoran Selinger: Okay.
120 00:13:57.720 ⇒ 00:14:06.289 Zoran Selinger: Obviously, I’m in Slack. Anytime you need anything, let me know, and I’ll… I’ll see what I can do.
121 00:14:06.540 ⇒ 00:14:09.239 Judd Kuehling: Perfect. Sounds good. Thanks, Zoran. Appreciate it.
122 00:14:09.240 ⇒ 00:14:10.030 Zoran Selinger: short time.
123 00:14:10.160 ⇒ 00:14:11.040 Judd Kuehling: Take care.
124 00:14:11.040 ⇒ 00:14:11.800 Zoran Selinger: Bye-bye.
125 00:14:11.800 ⇒ 00:14:12.370 Judd Kuehling: Bye.