Meeting Title: Eden Project Discovery Review Date: 2025-11-10 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Surfield Thomas, Jr., Amber Lin, Awaish Kumar
WEBVTT
1 00:00:48.040 ⇒ 00:00:49.610 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hey! I’m here.
2 00:00:52.940 ⇒ 00:00:53.644 Awaish Kumar: Hello.
3 00:00:54.710 ⇒ 00:00:55.939 Awaish Kumar: How are you doing?
4 00:01:00.890 ⇒ 00:01:03.640 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I didn’t hear what you said, I wish?
5 00:01:09.210 ⇒ 00:01:10.980 Awaish Kumar: Hey, Angel, how are you doing?
6 00:01:11.260 ⇒ 00:01:14.060 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m doing good. Is that… am I saying your name correctly, Awish?
7 00:01:14.270 ⇒ 00:01:15.300 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
8 00:01:15.590 ⇒ 00:01:17.620 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, perfect, awesome, sweet. I like it.
9 00:01:38.900 ⇒ 00:01:48.720 Awaish Kumar: Did Cameron provided any… Just… Nope. Let’s talk about where we can… That’s the problem? Don’t yet?
10 00:01:48.970 ⇒ 00:01:49.829 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: We just don’t.
11 00:01:51.940 ⇒ 00:01:57.229 Awaish Kumar: I also reviewed some of the talks he shared.
12 00:01:57.950 ⇒ 00:02:05.739 Awaish Kumar: Like, there is a mention of some webhooks, but yeah, I can’t test any of it.
13 00:02:08.440 ⇒ 00:02:15.039 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, I guess the real conversation that needs to be had for today is,
14 00:02:15.640 ⇒ 00:02:20.360 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, are we just gonna accept whatever he gives and then work off of that? Like…
15 00:02:21.060 ⇒ 00:02:24.909 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, what are we actually trying to get done here?
16 00:02:25.560 ⇒ 00:02:35.010 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh… Because, yeah, this is not how I would do this sort of project or engagement, but… I’m in?
17 00:02:35.760 ⇒ 00:02:39.349 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I guess they already kind of decided on this thing, so…
18 00:02:46.370 ⇒ 00:02:47.560 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hey, Amber.
19 00:02:51.540 ⇒ 00:02:59.620 Awaish Kumar: So, like, what are we… Finally proposing, like, will you be taking the developments, or…
20 00:03:02.050 ⇒ 00:03:03.450 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That I don’t know.
21 00:03:04.570 ⇒ 00:03:08.680 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cause I know we’re only covered for Discovery.
22 00:03:09.450 ⇒ 00:03:14.210 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So…
23 00:03:16.120 ⇒ 00:03:21.980 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’ll do the development, but we would have to do some other stuff, because there’s a lot of work here…
24 00:03:22.290 ⇒ 00:03:26.649 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: still left to do, because this thing doesn’t exist. Right? Like, it’s not real.
25 00:03:26.850 ⇒ 00:03:28.259 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, there’s the bunch.
26 00:03:29.460 ⇒ 00:03:33.170 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, we… we did the discovery, we figured out…
27 00:03:33.350 ⇒ 00:03:41.110 Awaish Kumar: What… what is there, and what’s… what will… what might work, and what might not.
28 00:03:41.260 ⇒ 00:03:49.379 Awaish Kumar: But, at the end of it, after we submit the disco, like, all the… documentation on our discovery.
29 00:03:49.940 ⇒ 00:04:01.079 Awaish Kumar: What… what do you think we will be proposing to them? Like, are we just going to give them the deliverables? Like, here are the documents that,
30 00:04:01.300 ⇒ 00:04:07.770 Awaish Kumar: Basically, Show the… if the system is working, and what are the best
31 00:04:08.130 ⇒ 00:04:15.710 Awaish Kumar: Practices for… for a… for a such kind of a system, or are you also proposing that we…
32 00:04:15.840 ⇒ 00:04:20.209 Awaish Kumar: We can take over the development, and what the milestone will look like.
33 00:04:20.390 ⇒ 00:04:22.960 Awaish Kumar: And how we can proceed with the development.
34 00:04:23.800 ⇒ 00:04:24.500 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Nope.
35 00:04:27.910 ⇒ 00:04:29.050 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
36 00:04:29.050 ⇒ 00:04:39.240 Amber Lin: Some asked me for one thing out of this meeting, it’s just that we… because we’re meeting with the Eden leadership tomorrow, no, actually, Wednesday, I think.
37 00:04:39.740 ⇒ 00:04:47.149 Amber Lin: And what we need is to present to them, here’s what we… saw… And, and…
38 00:04:50.890 ⇒ 00:04:57.520 Amber Lin: They can, based on what we saw, decide what we… what they want to do. Some slide we missed, like.
39 00:04:57.740 ⇒ 00:05:00.160 Amber Lin: It’s a month, like, almost a month ago?
40 00:05:07.730 ⇒ 00:05:09.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Amber, are we lost… we’re losing you a little bit.
41 00:05:15.550 ⇒ 00:05:27.619 Amber Lin: Okay, so I shouldn’t share a screen. So, I have a slide that I want us to do. Can I share it with you guys, and we fill… fill in that slide based on our findings?
42 00:05:28.040 ⇒ 00:05:32.800 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, fill out the… bring up the slide, yeah, I wish you want to share it, and then…
43 00:05:33.290 ⇒ 00:05:34.399 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: We’ll take it from there.
44 00:05:35.850 ⇒ 00:05:47.569 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So we can just all talk to it while Amber edges it. Because, Amber, I sent you guys two docs, but one is huge, one is the more leadership doc, but maybe we want to just resynthesize it to this, and I’m cool with that.
45 00:05:48.200 ⇒ 00:05:49.420 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I can help with that.
46 00:05:49.420 ⇒ 00:05:54.179 Amber Lin: Yeah, I saw the one Google Doc that you shared,
47 00:05:54.400 ⇒ 00:06:01.890 Amber Lin: it looks like it’s the roadmap of what they need to do. Is there one that talks about the current gaps and what…
48 00:06:01.890 ⇒ 00:06:07.510 Awaish Kumar: Has it been done? Yeah, so there’s two dots. One is the executive summary.
49 00:06:07.510 ⇒ 00:06:08.180 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Marine.
50 00:06:08.300 ⇒ 00:06:09.899 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then one is the roadmap?
51 00:06:10.480 ⇒ 00:06:14.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So the executive summary is the one you want to probably send to them.
52 00:06:14.690 ⇒ 00:06:20.619 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But the roadmap, that’s the one of just, like, alright, if we’re gonna do this, here’s what we’re gonna do.
53 00:06:22.000 ⇒ 00:06:27.329 Amber Lin: Is it in one Google Doc? I only have the one called Comprehensive Delivery Roadmap.
54 00:06:28.300 ⇒ 00:06:32.579 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, I thought I sent you a drive link. I’m sorry.
55 00:06:32.580 ⇒ 00:06:35.940 Amber Lin: Yeah, there… there is only one dock in the drive link.
56 00:06:37.060 ⇒ 00:06:38.400 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, hold on.
57 00:06:38.660 ⇒ 00:06:39.610 Amber Lin: Hmm.
58 00:06:40.890 ⇒ 00:06:41.620 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: seconds.
59 00:06:42.360 ⇒ 00:06:50.479 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Should be two, two folders in there, two, two docs in there. Okay, I see what I did there. Sorry about that, one second.
60 00:06:51.890 ⇒ 00:06:57.370 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Executive Summer Reed…
61 00:07:00.510 ⇒ 00:07:07.230 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And now… There are two folders in there, too.
62 00:07:07.740 ⇒ 00:07:09.149 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Docs in there.
63 00:07:14.290 ⇒ 00:07:15.110 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool.
64 00:07:15.730 ⇒ 00:07:17.180 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You should see the second one now.
65 00:07:18.750 ⇒ 00:07:20.269 Amber Lin: Cool, let me check.
66 00:07:22.470 ⇒ 00:07:25.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, and then the wish, you can go back to the other doc.
67 00:07:26.380 ⇒ 00:07:28.590 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, what I’m trying to say is that…
68 00:07:29.270 ⇒ 00:07:36.500 Awaish Kumar: like, those docs are good for sharing the detailed information with the team, but I think this is something
69 00:07:36.830 ⇒ 00:07:41.990 Awaish Kumar: yield, like… I think Robert or yourself will join him, I don’t know.
70 00:07:42.190 ⇒ 00:07:44.850 Awaish Kumar: But this is something you are going to present in the meeting.
71 00:07:44.980 ⇒ 00:07:46.950 Awaish Kumar: With, it’s just, like…
72 00:07:48.190 ⇒ 00:07:56.579 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, the information from my doc power… can power this doc, that’s fine. So which slide is it you wanted us to edit?
73 00:07:56.580 ⇒ 00:07:57.429 Awaish Kumar: This is the one…
74 00:07:57.430 ⇒ 00:08:02.739 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: First off, Amber, you see the two dots now, right?
75 00:08:04.700 ⇒ 00:08:06.060 Amber Lin: Yeah, I see them.
76 00:08:06.060 ⇒ 00:08:13.530 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool, sweet. So off of the executive summary doc, that’s the main one, and then you want to edit this slide?
77 00:08:16.200 ⇒ 00:08:19.820 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because I saw when Utam pointed to it, but I don’t know what he wants us to edit.
78 00:08:20.590 ⇒ 00:08:25.999 Awaish Kumar: But, like, this is the… I think he wants to fill this key gaps column.
79 00:08:26.330 ⇒ 00:08:27.830 Awaish Kumar: For each of the areas.
80 00:08:29.780 ⇒ 00:08:31.890 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But they already have stuff in them. Well, this is…
81 00:08:31.890 ⇒ 00:08:41.029 Amber Lin: this is what we did a month ago. Is there anything… can you look at this and let us know what’s… did anything change since we last created this slide?
82 00:08:41.799 ⇒ 00:08:47.849 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, yeah. I would say no, right? Like, the first one, no hosted sandbox and sample payloads.
83 00:08:48.179 ⇒ 00:08:49.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s still true.
84 00:08:49.449 ⇒ 00:08:53.469 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well… Sample payloads.
85 00:08:54.079 ⇒ 00:08:57.069 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You can take out the sample payloads part, but there’s no hosted sandbox.
86 00:08:58.099 ⇒ 00:09:00.159 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: He’s given us like that.
87 00:09:03.019 ⇒ 00:09:16.369 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: He’s given us the… you can take out the missing, schema. He gave us a schema, we can’t qualify if it works or not, but yeah, he gave us a schema. So, missing PHI event dictionary.
88 00:09:19.730 ⇒ 00:09:20.800 Awaish Kumar: Good to see.
89 00:09:27.870 ⇒ 00:09:30.470 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Runbook is still the same such scenario.
90 00:09:32.950 ⇒ 00:09:40.380 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: For the second one, no issue queue or UAT trail. No, no audit trail.
91 00:09:40.480 ⇒ 00:09:47.969 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I mean… a wish, you saw it, he gave us… A couple things on a…
92 00:09:48.810 ⇒ 00:09:55.320 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: What is it? On a… Excel doc.
93 00:09:55.480 ⇒ 00:09:58.820 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I don’t know if that really counts as a cue.
94 00:09:59.000 ⇒ 00:10:00.510 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, I mean…
95 00:10:04.130 ⇒ 00:10:05.180 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
96 00:10:07.290 ⇒ 00:10:10.710 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I mean, it’s technically an issue cube, it’s not good, but…
97 00:10:12.620 ⇒ 00:10:15.999 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: There’s definitely no audit trail on figuring out when they’re gonna be done, though.
98 00:10:17.920 ⇒ 00:10:25.029 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know, like, what we mean by audit trails, but he… he did have a functionality to, like.
99 00:10:25.700 ⇒ 00:10:30.879 Awaish Kumar: Create those plans for each pharmacy, and… Stuff like that.
100 00:10:33.150 ⇒ 00:10:35.960 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which can be stored in a database, and…
101 00:10:36.210 ⇒ 00:10:39.409 Awaish Kumar: And we can keep the virtual history of database?
102 00:10:41.600 ⇒ 00:10:51.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Bomb… the event schema… No API event schema for pharmacy dose plan updates.
103 00:10:52.230 ⇒ 00:10:56.920 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: He has an API. Again, we can’t check that it works.
104 00:11:03.300 ⇒ 00:11:13.810 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yep, for the first one, you can add, shared a rough… Timeline.
105 00:11:15.040 ⇒ 00:11:22.860 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: No, should they… Ra shared a rough…
106 00:11:24.620 ⇒ 00:11:27.759 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Ticket queue. I’m gonna put, like, Ticket Q.
107 00:11:28.750 ⇒ 00:11:29.340 Amber Lin: Hmm.
108 00:11:29.340 ⇒ 00:11:33.980 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, no, no, share a rough timeline. Ticket Q, Ticket Q, that’s fine.
109 00:11:34.720 ⇒ 00:11:38.110 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s why this one. Alright, now that I’ve read it and see it, yeah, that makes sense.
110 00:11:40.880 ⇒ 00:11:49.519 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Multi-pharmacy switching, not… That’s still not… not good. He didn’t fix anything there. No live provider, not… yep, that’s still true.
111 00:11:49.620 ⇒ 00:11:57.470 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Approval events on… Documented… Approval events?
112 00:11:58.310 ⇒ 00:12:05.180 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I mean… There’s documentation for them. Again, we don’t know if they work.
113 00:12:06.500 ⇒ 00:12:09.139 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Give me 2 seconds, let me just make sure.
114 00:12:41.090 ⇒ 00:12:42.759 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Give me a second to check myself.
115 00:14:05.590 ⇒ 00:14:10.069 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Mmm… There’s no API for it, there’s just a…
116 00:14:12.550 ⇒ 00:14:15.230 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: data object for it, for approved.
117 00:14:16.910 ⇒ 00:14:18.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: There’s no API.
118 00:14:18.710 ⇒ 00:14:20.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Specifically, if you need an API.
119 00:14:29.870 ⇒ 00:14:33.540 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, so I would say.
120 00:14:33.540 ⇒ 00:14:35.929 Amber Lin: rely on the second box. Okay.
121 00:14:36.470 ⇒ 00:14:37.890 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, just take that back out, yep.
122 00:14:37.890 ⇒ 00:14:39.380 Amber Lin: No APR.
123 00:14:44.030 ⇒ 00:14:51.460 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: no live providers on the portal yet. Approval, events, undocumented, has documentation, not sure if it works.
124 00:14:51.940 ⇒ 00:14:58.320 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I would remove that, too, because, again,
125 00:14:58.920 ⇒ 00:15:04.619 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, there’s just a flag for approval, there’s no events or anything like that.
126 00:15:05.510 ⇒ 00:15:07.889 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And there’s nothing specifically about it.
127 00:15:08.700 ⇒ 00:15:14.710 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The doctor tell us team that,
128 00:15:14.950 ⇒ 00:15:21.829 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: No end-to-end flow, no, yep, that’s true. No seed, yep, that’s true, no published order event. Yep.
129 00:15:22.440 ⇒ 00:15:32.800 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I mean, environment not reproducible, yep, that’s still true. Yep, that’s still true, no back-end evidence or seeded data. Yeah.
130 00:15:33.420 ⇒ 00:15:46.850 Amber Lin: Okay. So what’s our… what is our conclusion? So should we say that, like, in one sentence, how can we say what has changed, or what we’ve got after, a month?
131 00:15:48.210 ⇒ 00:15:54.699 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: We’ve gotten some better documentation on an app that’s still…
132 00:15:55.680 ⇒ 00:15:57.370 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Doesn’t have a way to be tested.
133 00:15:58.410 ⇒ 00:16:02.769 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So we’re further along, we have docu… yeah, we have documentation, but you still can’t test it.
134 00:16:04.360 ⇒ 00:16:05.970 Amber Lin: Or do we need to test it?
135 00:16:07.540 ⇒ 00:16:09.740 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The actual environment up and running.
136 00:16:13.210 ⇒ 00:16:19.710 Amber Lin: And what did Cameron say he was doing? He said he was making an eaten environment that’s been gone off for a few weeks.
137 00:16:22.690 ⇒ 00:16:26.309 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then he said he was gonna give me access to the databases, he has it.
138 00:16:29.000 ⇒ 00:16:38.189 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I can’t really spin it up locally to work on it, because it’s using a bunch of different tools, so all sorts are kind of crazy.
139 00:16:44.760 ⇒ 00:16:47.699 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I read through all of it, though. I mean, there’s code.
140 00:16:48.750 ⇒ 00:16:49.969 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It does stuff!
141 00:16:51.980 ⇒ 00:16:57.479 Amber Lin: How did you verify, like, it does stuff? Were you able to run it? What does that mean?
142 00:16:57.480 ⇒ 00:17:03.499 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: No, I… I… I assume that the code works based on how it’s
143 00:17:03.840 ⇒ 00:17:07.920 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I literally… Yeah, I literally cannot run it.
144 00:17:08.240 ⇒ 00:17:12.210 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And that’s what I’ve been asking for, I was like, dude, can you just get me running for me?
145 00:17:13.510 ⇒ 00:17:15.170 Amber Lin: 4 days, this is the…
146 00:17:15.170 ⇒ 00:17:19.510 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So that’s gonna be the biggest gap if they take this over and bring on a team, like…
147 00:17:20.760 ⇒ 00:17:26.440 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: we need the thing up and running before we can… like, before you can even hire engineers, you need the thing up and running, right? Like, what are they gonna build against?
148 00:17:27.750 ⇒ 00:17:28.409 Amber Lin: I see.
149 00:17:28.410 ⇒ 00:17:31.300 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, like, no one knows how to turn this thing on.
150 00:17:31.600 ⇒ 00:17:35.109 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And whenever we ask him, we don’t get a straightforward answer.
151 00:17:46.290 ⇒ 00:17:49.580 Awaish Kumar: Got some documentation, and also got some demos.
152 00:17:52.250 ⇒ 00:17:59.380 Amber Lin: Did we get the demos? The last demo we got was the one that we went to together, and then it has just been canceled.
153 00:17:59.880 ⇒ 00:18:02.130 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yep. So, there’s no demo.
154 00:18:05.430 ⇒ 00:18:06.320 Amber Lin: Okay.
155 00:18:07.770 ⇒ 00:18:09.960 Amber Lin: I’ll polish this.
156 00:18:14.790 ⇒ 00:18:19.340 Amber Lin: To find demo… Okay.
157 00:18:19.670 ⇒ 00:18:21.640 Amber Lin: What does this mean for Eden?
158 00:18:21.890 ⇒ 00:18:23.809 Amber Lin: Means that they can’t run it.
159 00:18:27.750 ⇒ 00:18:29.959 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It means that nobody can run it.
160 00:18:31.500 ⇒ 00:18:33.860 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Except for Cameron. Kinda, sorta.
161 00:18:34.430 ⇒ 00:18:38.760 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because he can only run it on his computers sometimes, not all the time.
162 00:18:39.200 ⇒ 00:18:43.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because he’ll forget where the, the data scripts are.
163 00:18:44.670 ⇒ 00:18:45.420 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So…
164 00:18:46.600 ⇒ 00:18:49.650 Amber Lin: Okay, so what’s her recommendation for Eden?
165 00:18:53.600 ⇒ 00:18:54.420 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Run.
166 00:18:54.690 ⇒ 00:19:01.389 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s actually the best… They should run.
167 00:19:01.500 ⇒ 00:19:05.320 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: If they have to build this thing, they need to…
168 00:19:05.720 ⇒ 00:19:15.619 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, it depends on their timeline, right? If they want it built fast, they need to just take the thing over. They’ll be buying a broken application.
169 00:19:15.840 ⇒ 00:19:21.259 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which really sucks. And then having to train people on how to use it.
170 00:19:21.580 ⇒ 00:19:28.389 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: With… A person who’s gonna be hard to work with.
171 00:19:28.670 ⇒ 00:19:38.070 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It’s just not great all around. I mean…
172 00:19:38.220 ⇒ 00:19:39.229 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I wish I had never known.
173 00:19:39.230 ⇒ 00:19:40.009 Amber Lin: Another solution.
174 00:19:40.010 ⇒ 00:19:40.650 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Nope.
175 00:19:41.430 ⇒ 00:19:42.469 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Build their own.
176 00:19:42.470 ⇒ 00:19:47.769 Amber Lin: Oh, I will beautify the words, but okay, what happens if they want to build their own?
177 00:19:48.390 ⇒ 00:19:51.279 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Oh, if they want to build their own, then yeah, we’re…
178 00:19:51.840 ⇒ 00:19:56.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: then we need to build a team and build out the pieces. I mean…
179 00:19:57.190 ⇒ 00:19:57.790 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
180 00:19:57.790 ⇒ 00:20:02.449 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It’s not as if this thing, like, Let’s rephrase.
181 00:20:04.670 ⇒ 00:20:07.110 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The larger goal is to replace VASC,
182 00:20:07.900 ⇒ 00:20:13.230 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: start there. They want to build their own bath replacement, that’s gonna take a while.
183 00:20:14.100 ⇒ 00:20:18.689 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Because it’s more than some of the stuff that we’re talking about here.
184 00:20:18.830 ⇒ 00:20:20.799 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This was supposed to be their leg up.
185 00:20:21.700 ⇒ 00:20:23.419 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But it’s not looking like that.
186 00:20:23.580 ⇒ 00:20:24.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So that’s the issue.
187 00:20:24.720 ⇒ 00:20:28.770 Amber Lin: Is… is any of Remo’s work reusable?
188 00:20:31.100 ⇒ 00:20:33.079 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, for example…
189 00:20:34.640 ⇒ 00:20:37.070 Awaish Kumar: For example, so if you say,
190 00:20:37.950 ⇒ 00:20:41.939 Awaish Kumar: If… if the world has to… if we start building…
191 00:20:42.240 ⇒ 00:20:48.079 Awaish Kumar: this thing, from scratch. Like, start building the… Bask from scratch.
192 00:20:48.610 ⇒ 00:20:53.370 Awaish Kumar: How, like, will, like… Can we make some… some…
193 00:20:54.180 ⇒ 00:20:57.669 Awaish Kumar: a platform like Remo in a few weeks, right?
194 00:20:57.990 ⇒ 00:21:02.280 Awaish Kumar: Maybe, like, you know, 4 weeks’ time, we have a better version of Remo.
195 00:21:04.620 ⇒ 00:21:05.519 Amber Lin: Is that possible?
196 00:21:05.690 ⇒ 00:21:08.250 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: scratch, that’d be tough, right? Because, like.
197 00:21:08.960 ⇒ 00:21:21.099 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: there’s a lot going on there, and, like, we’re talking about health insurance. I mean, health, right? So, like, there’s definitely some stuff going on, so I wouldn’t… 4 weeks, no.
198 00:21:21.730 ⇒ 00:21:23.040 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, okay.
199 00:21:23.270 ⇒ 00:21:23.940 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
200 00:21:23.940 ⇒ 00:21:28.989 Amber Lin: How would Like, how long would option 1 and Optum 2 take?
201 00:21:29.960 ⇒ 00:21:31.810 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: What’s option 1? I can’t really see.
202 00:21:31.810 ⇒ 00:21:34.539 Amber Lin: To take Remo, and then…
203 00:21:35.130 ⇒ 00:21:39.089 Amber Lin: Prove it, or whatever. And the second one is to build it themselves.
204 00:21:40.580 ⇒ 00:21:45.640 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: In my dock, to go from Remo to…
205 00:21:45.770 ⇒ 00:21:49.119 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Where it needs to be to be production, it’s gonna take 4 months.
206 00:21:49.690 ⇒ 00:21:54.589 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: If you wanted to build it from scratch, probably 6 months?
207 00:21:57.450 ⇒ 00:21:59.460 Amber Lin: Assuming how many people?
208 00:21:59.940 ⇒ 00:22:02.110 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s in a dock, too.
209 00:22:02.650 ⇒ 00:22:13.450 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Two, what are they called? Two full-stack engineers and a, technical project manager.
210 00:22:23.790 ⇒ 00:22:24.890 Amber Lin: Okay.
211 00:22:26.900 ⇒ 00:22:29.589 Amber Lin: Do you know… Oh, yeah, go ahead.
212 00:22:29.590 ⇒ 00:22:32.020 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Here’s the issue, right? None of us can see him at work.
213 00:22:32.330 ⇒ 00:22:34.970 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: We all know it’s extremely hard to work with Cameron.
214 00:22:35.240 ⇒ 00:22:42.089 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, if we’re gonna just take his code from him, no one’s gonna understand anything about how to get it running, so we’re gonna have to go figure that out.
215 00:22:42.250 ⇒ 00:22:43.699 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? So it’s like…
216 00:22:43.870 ⇒ 00:22:50.649 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The leg up he was supposed to be giving us is now becoming a crutch, because still no one understands this thing.
217 00:22:50.920 ⇒ 00:23:00.060 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Like, I can see the code, and that’s why I’m like, I know that it does this specific thing, but he can’t even deploy it, right? To give me a deployed version to test.
218 00:23:00.690 ⇒ 00:23:06.030 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So I can’t even deploy it. So then I would have to go through all of that process of trying to, like.
219 00:23:06.280 ⇒ 00:23:10.399 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Think through his head, which is a waste of time, because he should already have that.
220 00:23:10.610 ⇒ 00:23:13.579 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? To be able to then do the thing, so it’s like…
221 00:23:13.800 ⇒ 00:23:17.789 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Most of the time here is him wasting everybody else’s time.
222 00:23:23.490 ⇒ 00:23:25.360 Amber Lin: So… Okay.
223 00:23:25.530 ⇒ 00:23:26.380 Amber Lin: Okay.
224 00:23:26.790 ⇒ 00:23:29.110 Amber Lin: I think that gives us enough.
225 00:23:29.370 ⇒ 00:23:39.140 Amber Lin: would work with. Sir, do you think… can you think of some questions that Eden, like, leadership and CEO, like, what they would be asking? What do you think they would ask us?
226 00:23:40.240 ⇒ 00:23:40.910 Amber Lin: Like, oops.
227 00:23:40.910 ⇒ 00:23:41.510 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: sections.
228 00:23:41.510 ⇒ 00:23:42.760 Amber Lin: questions…
229 00:23:44.900 ⇒ 00:23:50.789 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The question that they would ask is, how do we get faster? That’s gonna always be one.
230 00:23:53.230 ⇒ 00:23:57.030 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Why is Remo so behind?
231 00:23:57.140 ⇒ 00:23:59.069 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You know the answer to that one.
232 00:23:59.460 ⇒ 00:24:08.389 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Why can’t we… if we take what they currently have, why can’t we move…
233 00:24:09.060 ⇒ 00:24:12.359 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: the chains faster, which I kind of answered.
234 00:24:12.640 ⇒ 00:24:17.530 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then…
235 00:24:19.750 ⇒ 00:24:25.080 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: If we bring on our own team and start from scratch, how do we know we’re guaranteed to get
236 00:24:25.190 ⇒ 00:24:26.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The thing that we want.
237 00:24:28.120 ⇒ 00:24:33.500 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which… Well, technically, y’all can always guarantee that, it’s just you can’t guarantee the time.
238 00:24:35.230 ⇒ 00:24:36.070 Amber Lin: Mmm.
239 00:24:37.990 ⇒ 00:24:39.010 Amber Lin: Awesome.
240 00:24:41.250 ⇒ 00:24:42.840 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I think those would probably be the biggest.
241 00:24:43.490 ⇒ 00:24:48.249 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This will come as a shock, because they… because this is supposed to be the badge replacement.
242 00:24:48.670 ⇒ 00:24:49.290 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And…
243 00:24:49.290 ⇒ 00:24:49.730 Amber Lin: Absolutely.
244 00:24:49.730 ⇒ 00:24:50.120 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Who knows?
245 00:24:50.120 ⇒ 00:24:51.659 Amber Lin: It’s been so long.
246 00:24:52.800 ⇒ 00:24:57.169 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: We still don’t? He said November 1st, November 10th.
247 00:24:57.830 ⇒ 00:25:00.330 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Still don’t have sandbox.
248 00:25:01.330 ⇒ 00:25:04.000 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Still taking the code up.
249 00:25:05.770 ⇒ 00:25:11.140 Amber Lin: Yep, okay, so let me highlight… This? Oh.
250 00:25:11.680 ⇒ 00:25:12.480 Amber Lin: That’s bad.
251 00:25:12.790 ⇒ 00:25:16.009 Amber Lin: Highlight it in yellow or something.
252 00:25:16.570 ⇒ 00:25:18.390 Amber Lin: Say this changed.
253 00:25:19.360 ⇒ 00:25:21.440 Amber Lin: Okay.
254 00:25:29.310 ⇒ 00:25:30.660 Amber Lin: Okay.
255 00:25:31.580 ⇒ 00:25:37.129 Amber Lin: So I assume that’s the only 3 things, 4 things, that have changed.
256 00:25:40.550 ⇒ 00:25:41.240 Amber Lin: Okay.
257 00:25:43.160 ⇒ 00:25:45.370 Amber Lin: Alright, so they gave us…
258 00:25:46.210 ⇒ 00:25:52.180 Amber Lin: Wouldn’t he give us, essentially? I didn’t understand what he gave me. What he gave us.
259 00:25:53.090 ⇒ 00:25:55.620 Amber Lin: Like, it was a list of documents.
260 00:25:56.670 ⇒ 00:26:10.579 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. It was, like, docs, APIs, all this sort of stuff. It was more or less just, like, he’s like, I’m gonna use… he basically just said, I’m gonna use ChatGBT to answer all the questions that you guys ask, so that I have something. Again, they’re okay.
261 00:26:10.710 ⇒ 00:26:11.790 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, great.
262 00:26:11.960 ⇒ 00:26:14.199 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like, they’re better than nothing.
263 00:26:15.230 ⇒ 00:26:18.880 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like, the application still doesn’t run, so it’s just like, alright, well…
264 00:26:19.590 ⇒ 00:26:22.239 Amber Lin: Okay. An application that doesn’t run.
265 00:26:24.010 ⇒ 00:26:32.239 Amber Lin: Gotcha. Okay, sounds good. I’ll clean up this slide, and sir, I’ll ping you for a review, and then, like, Utam or Robert might have some extra questions.
266 00:26:33.800 ⇒ 00:26:34.410 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool.
267 00:26:34.910 ⇒ 00:26:37.910 Amber Lin: Cool. Awish, anything else you want to ask?
268 00:26:38.700 ⇒ 00:26:39.240 Awaish Kumar: Nope.
269 00:26:40.270 ⇒ 00:26:40.910 Amber Lin: Okay.
270 00:26:41.860 ⇒ 00:26:43.089 Amber Lin: I ordered this token.
271 00:26:43.090 ⇒ 00:26:45.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I want this to land in a better spot, but like…
272 00:26:46.000 ⇒ 00:26:46.670 Amber Lin: Yeah.
273 00:26:46.670 ⇒ 00:26:50.939 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It’s not ready, right? Like, it’s not even an application.
274 00:26:51.020 ⇒ 00:26:56.850 Amber Lin: No one’s… If they did ask us, would you want to work on this?
275 00:26:58.850 ⇒ 00:27:00.410 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Good! Hi.
276 00:27:00.410 ⇒ 00:27:04.130 Amber Lin: Given… given the… The stuff you’ve seen.
277 00:27:04.460 ⇒ 00:27:04.870 Amber Lin: you are.
278 00:27:04.870 ⇒ 00:27:12.549 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, yeah, I don’t… I did. I would… I wouldn’t really want to work with Cameron, because that seems like it’s just not going to be great.
279 00:27:12.930 ⇒ 00:27:20.769 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like, if they’re gonna buy the source code, I guess… I mean, again, it’s like, it’s one of those things where it’s just like…
280 00:27:23.020 ⇒ 00:27:26.529 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s what I… It’s like this. You could either…
281 00:27:27.930 ⇒ 00:27:33.200 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Buy a land and… buy land and build a house, or buy someone else’s half-finished house?
282 00:27:34.360 ⇒ 00:27:37.610 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, which one of those two things would you choose?
283 00:27:37.960 ⇒ 00:27:39.500 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Ew, right?
284 00:27:39.500 ⇒ 00:27:40.300 Amber Lin: I see.
285 00:27:40.690 ⇒ 00:27:42.300 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, it’s like…
286 00:27:42.870 ⇒ 00:27:52.150 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The thing you wanted was a finished house that someone can then retrofit. So it’s like a half-finished house. We’re still gonna have to go in there and find, like…
287 00:27:52.410 ⇒ 00:27:55.969 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: what’s going on? So it’s like, it’s just, again, he’s wasting everyone’s time.
288 00:27:56.120 ⇒ 00:27:57.210 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s the problem.
289 00:27:57.560 ⇒ 00:28:03.390 Amber Lin: Okay, so the key recommendation is just to have them decide as soon as possible.
290 00:28:03.750 ⇒ 00:28:06.080 Amber Lin: Because he is taking very long.
291 00:28:06.500 ⇒ 00:28:09.110 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, it, like, like, their, their best bet…
292 00:28:09.260 ⇒ 00:28:13.390 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: if they’re gonna go with… with Remo, is…
293 00:28:13.650 ⇒ 00:28:17.690 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: to then have Cameron lead the whole charge, but then they’re gonna have to deal with Cameron.
294 00:28:18.240 ⇒ 00:28:26.510 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because, like, he understands the intricacies of how he wants to do things, and he’s a very difficult person to work with, which is probably also why this thing is behind so much.
295 00:28:27.410 ⇒ 00:28:34.209 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Because, like, even if I come in, I’m still gonna need, like… I would need his help.
296 00:28:34.530 ⇒ 00:28:41.730 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: because he did this thing in such a quirky way, unless I’m gonna undo it, which, if I’m gonna undo it, alright, now you’re going from…
297 00:28:42.910 ⇒ 00:28:45.780 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: 60% of something to 30% of something.
298 00:28:46.180 ⇒ 00:28:51.130 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Because I’m gonna do… I’m gonna take this thing and just do it a completely different way, so, like, we’re just…
299 00:28:51.390 ⇒ 00:28:52.790 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It just doesn’t make any sense.
300 00:28:55.520 ⇒ 00:28:56.120 Amber Lin: Yep.
301 00:28:56.470 ⇒ 00:28:57.170 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
302 00:28:57.360 ⇒ 00:29:00.510 Amber Lin: I see. Okay, I’ll translate that to…
303 00:29:00.670 ⇒ 00:29:03.430 Amber Lin: Cover it. See what they say.
304 00:29:04.100 ⇒ 00:29:04.639 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: them, please?
305 00:29:04.640 ⇒ 00:29:05.160 Amber Lin: Thank you.
306 00:29:05.560 ⇒ 00:29:06.070 Amber Lin: Yeah.
307 00:29:06.070 ⇒ 00:29:08.090 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Maybe if you have any other clarifications?
308 00:29:08.770 ⇒ 00:29:09.440 Amber Lin: Alright.
309 00:29:11.050 ⇒ 00:29:12.180 Amber Lin: Cool. Thanks, both.
310 00:29:12.960 ⇒ 00:29:13.820 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: No problem.
311 00:29:15.240 ⇒ 00:29:15.950 Amber Lin: Bye!
312 00:29:16.270 ⇒ 00:29:17.000 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, buddy.