Meeting Title: Eden Attribution and Mixpanel Sync Date: 2025-10-07 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Henry Zhao
WEBVTT
1 00:01:35.260 ⇒ 00:01:36.620 Henry Zhao: Hey, how’s it going?
2 00:01:37.040 ⇒ 00:01:37.810 Robert Tseng: Hey!
3 00:01:40.070 ⇒ 00:01:43.299 Henry Zhao: I’m just gonna jump right into it, because I have a lot to cover with you. Yeah.
4 00:01:43.300 ⇒ 00:01:44.130 Robert Tseng: Let’s do it.
5 00:01:44.130 ⇒ 00:01:47.280 Henry Zhao: Help with some things. Alright.
6 00:01:48.930 ⇒ 00:01:51.770 Henry Zhao: First thing is the slides.
7 00:01:53.060 ⇒ 00:01:53.900 Henry Zhao: For this one.
8 00:01:55.430 ⇒ 00:01:56.140 Henry Zhao: No.
9 00:02:05.590 ⇒ 00:02:14.730 Henry Zhao: I don’t really have a good visual for this, but, these are my slides for today, for this week. I just wanted to give an update on attribution stitching and affiliate spend reconciliation.
10 00:02:14.880 ⇒ 00:02:23.359 Henry Zhao: So basically, the things we’re trying to answer right now in these two weeks are where are we on tracking attribution?
11 00:02:23.360 ⇒ 00:02:26.730 Robert Tseng: Yep. So one thing is I need the Eden team to standardize their UTF.
12 00:02:26.730 ⇒ 00:02:35.969 Henry Zhao: boarding, so I don’t know if you saw that I sent a loom on, like, how to do this. Not a lot of people have watched it yet, so I need to maybe prod again, or you might need to let ELT know that this is something we should…
13 00:02:36.880 ⇒ 00:02:39.770 Henry Zhao: Otherwise, we can’t analyze the data, right? Like, everyone has their own…
14 00:02:40.230 ⇒ 00:02:44.430 Henry Zhao: own, like, UTM setup, like, I’m gonna call my social.
15 00:02:44.620 ⇒ 00:02:47.909 Henry Zhao: It’s gonna be a mess to analyze, right?
16 00:02:47.910 ⇒ 00:02:48.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
17 00:02:48.810 ⇒ 00:02:50.919 Henry Zhao: So we want to standardize from the beginning.
18 00:02:51.730 ⇒ 00:03:03.559 Henry Zhao: Then today, or tomorrow, I’m testing the intake form with segment to make sure that all of the touchpoints are being tracked, and flowing into our BigQuery tables, as well as Mixpanel, so that we can do the reporting.
19 00:03:03.880 ⇒ 00:03:12.099 Henry Zhao: And then find the field that is a true indicator of a deduplicated customer identity. I don’t know if this is clear, but basically.
20 00:03:12.270 ⇒ 00:03:20.490 Henry Zhao: we need to understand, like, is it your IP, or is your user ID, or is your segment anonymous ID the one that’s saying that this is one person?
21 00:03:20.810 ⇒ 00:03:27.709 Henry Zhao: And then by the end of the month, we want to finalize the model for attribution, and that includes what I asked today about what is the actual conversion.
22 00:03:28.430 ⇒ 00:03:29.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
23 00:03:29.300 ⇒ 00:03:33.850 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, I think on the conversion side, we can, we can grab a call, I mean…
24 00:03:36.030 ⇒ 00:03:45.069 Robert Tseng: to me, there are two definitions. There’s one where the order is completed, there’s one where it’s sent to pharmacy. So, obviously, for marketing, they care about the one that… when the order is completed.
25 00:03:45.370 ⇒ 00:03:47.539 Robert Tseng: And then for…
26 00:03:48.450 ⇒ 00:03:57.219 Robert Tseng: for operations and ELT, they care about, like, orders that are actually sent to pharmacy. So, I think what you were asking about earlier…
27 00:03:59.500 ⇒ 00:04:01.360 Henry Zhao: Do you think marketing cares about order completed?
28 00:04:02.090 ⇒ 00:04:02.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
29 00:04:03.540 ⇒ 00:04:04.530 Henry Zhao: That helps.
30 00:04:06.420 ⇒ 00:04:14.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s why there are multiple definitions, because from their perspective, they don’t want to get… they don’t want to be,
31 00:04:17.079 ⇒ 00:04:20.990 Robert Tseng: Well, it’s like, it’s not their fault if an…
32 00:04:21.200 ⇒ 00:04:37.190 Robert Tseng: completed order doesn’t actually materialize to be a real order, because that could be operational things. Payment, hurdles down, whatever, like, they don’t, like, pharmacy rejects them, the user doesn’t complete some steps, like, those are operational things that, like.
33 00:04:37.580 ⇒ 00:04:46.450 Robert Tseng: that they should not be responsible for. So they… and they think, well, if it’s… if someone was actually able to pay, then…
34 00:04:46.850 ⇒ 00:05:00.629 Robert Tseng: You know, that should be given credit, and the… the budget attribution… the budget allocation should not penalize those, those… those buyers, because they did have buying intent.
35 00:05:00.800 ⇒ 00:05:05.819 Robert Tseng: and whatever, like, close the order. So, that’s… that would be their perspective.
36 00:05:07.360 ⇒ 00:05:24.310 Henry Zhao: Okay, I want to play devil’s advocate for a second. You know I worked for the dental company in Brazil? Yeah. One of the big things that we were working on is… same thing, right? To get the aligners in Brazil, you had to fill out an intake form, you had a registered username, password, and then you had to send 3 pictures.
37 00:05:24.310 ⇒ 00:05:29.040 Henry Zhao: Of your teeth. Upper view, down view, whole view, that was the biggest drop-off.
38 00:05:29.460 ⇒ 00:05:35.859 Henry Zhao: Yep. And it makes sense, because I’m not filling things out? I also hate, like, getting my ID, I hate taking pictures and stuff like that.
39 00:05:36.020 ⇒ 00:05:43.349 Henry Zhao: We need to do a better job of analyzing this part of the drop-off and figure out how we can make it easier so people don’t abandon as much.
40 00:05:43.690 ⇒ 00:05:44.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
41 00:05:45.090 ⇒ 00:05:45.720 Henry Zhao: And I don’t think Mark.
42 00:05:45.720 ⇒ 00:05:49.129 Robert Tseng: So you think that you should just ship the…
43 00:05:49.260 ⇒ 00:05:54.080 Robert Tseng: The yardstick back and just keep it the same at, like, when it was actually sent to the pharmacy.
44 00:05:54.890 ⇒ 00:06:03.000 Henry Zhao: Or they need to have two KPIs. One is the order completed, fine, but you need an additional KPI of, can we lower abandons?
45 00:06:03.000 ⇒ 00:06:04.730 Robert Tseng: Yeah. I think that…
46 00:06:04.730 ⇒ 00:06:06.470 Henry Zhao: It’s gonna move the needle more.
47 00:06:06.710 ⇒ 00:06:09.960 Henry Zhao: then… Than what we’re doing now.
48 00:06:10.970 ⇒ 00:06:11.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
49 00:06:13.410 ⇒ 00:06:17.649 Robert Tseng: I guess in… Because also, who… who would own that metric? The, abandoned.
50 00:06:17.650 ⇒ 00:06:18.460 Henry Zhao: Realty.
51 00:06:18.770 ⇒ 00:06:23.989 Henry Zhao: I think ELT needs to make… make a decision, say, this is something we need to… we need to…
52 00:06:24.160 ⇒ 00:06:28.899 Henry Zhao: put on our roadmap, at least maybe for, like, 2026, because I think that can drive the needle.
53 00:06:29.430 ⇒ 00:06:30.089 Henry Zhao: Or have some.
54 00:06:30.090 ⇒ 00:06:30.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
55 00:06:30.480 ⇒ 00:06:38.829 Henry Zhao: like, Monitoring or, incentive for people to work on lowering that.
56 00:06:39.560 ⇒ 00:06:47.159 Robert Tseng: I don’t know what you saw when you… if you’ve looked at the drop-off currently, but last time I ran this analysis, it was…
57 00:06:47.480 ⇒ 00:06:51.110 Robert Tseng: Probably, like, a 40% drop-off.
58 00:06:52.880 ⇒ 00:06:56.700 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I mean, I definitely think there’s room for improvement there.
59 00:06:56.870 ⇒ 00:07:02.010 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I don’t think it was very clear, like, what actions would actually,
60 00:07:02.180 ⇒ 00:07:04.509 Robert Tseng: move the needle there. But,
61 00:07:04.950 ⇒ 00:07:07.580 Robert Tseng: I guess that’s the purpose of having
62 00:07:07.980 ⇒ 00:07:20.429 Robert Tseng: tracking both of these conversion points. I mean, I feel like we’ve been… we got closer to that, like, in the BigQuery… well, in segment, like, in that final CAPI model.
63 00:07:20.930 ⇒ 00:07:32.469 Robert Tseng: well, we shifted it to send to pharmacy, and then we moved it back to our order completed. So, like, it is a big disconnect. We’re not really reporting both of these metrics together. So,
64 00:07:33.630 ⇒ 00:07:35.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with you.
65 00:07:35.070 ⇒ 00:07:41.259 Henry Zhao: I’ll test the intake, I’ll test the intake, and then I’ll maybe propose some things that could be done, and see if it makes sense.
66 00:07:41.770 ⇒ 00:07:49.619 Henry Zhao: Like, one thing is, like, for example, if you have to take the picture while doing the intake, maybe we add a feature like, send me an email reminder, and then…
67 00:07:49.780 ⇒ 00:07:53.419 Henry Zhao: You end the intake there, but then you keep getting email reminders until the pictures are sent.
68 00:07:53.640 ⇒ 00:07:56.650 Henry Zhao: And you make it easy that people can just reply to the email with the pictures.
69 00:07:58.050 ⇒ 00:08:12.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so even just taking that, you know, so what I would… how I would split this out, if you were to… I mean, I don’t want you spending too much time taking slides, but ideally, I would… I would take that finalized attribution, and I would say we have these two models, like, we have… we’re tracking
70 00:08:12.770 ⇒ 00:08:29.890 Robert Tseng: order completed, and then we’re tracking whatever, like, sent to pharmacy. Our current, like, drop-off rate is, whatever, X percentage, and, like, this… this is the number we need to move. Like, I think that should be, like, one… I feel like that could be one slide. And I… I can go build that out if you want, whatever, but, like.
71 00:08:30.320 ⇒ 00:08:31.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean…
72 00:08:31.780 ⇒ 00:08:47.169 Robert Tseng: this is less about just sharing what we’re doing to address the questions. I think they… the ELT wants to get insights out of this, obviously. They don’t want to just look at our roadmap, so… And if I can put in front of them, hey, we’re… we want to move… we want to impact this metric.
73 00:08:47.240 ⇒ 00:08:57.719 Robert Tseng: we have ideas on how we can do it, and we can help be the change management team to kind of drive that forward. Well, then I think that gives me something that I can… I can go and,
74 00:08:57.810 ⇒ 00:09:04.580 Robert Tseng: try to… Negotiate with them, like, On being compensated for that.
75 00:09:05.670 ⇒ 00:09:19.939 Henry Zhao: Okay, and then the second thing is just we want to reconcile catalyst orders to be paid, so what we talked about this week is adding an event for prescription sent instead of order completed, whether it’s in GTM or in BASC, so that we understand the true orders.
76 00:09:19.980 ⇒ 00:09:29.860 Henry Zhao: And then we need to add first touch based on our contract with Catalyst, because it’s within 14 days of a first touch Catalyst, or the last touch is Catalyst.
77 00:09:32.960 ⇒ 00:09:34.040 Robert Tseng: I see.
78 00:09:34.800 ⇒ 00:09:37.150 Robert Tseng: So you want to shift it to just first touch?
79 00:09:38.010 ⇒ 00:09:42.300 Henry Zhao: No, no, no, we just need to add first touch so that we can do the reconciliation.
80 00:09:43.570 ⇒ 00:09:48.369 Robert Tseng: Then what… wait, what is… is it its last touch right now, and we… you want… sorry, I don’t understand that.
81 00:09:49.210 ⇒ 00:09:53.260 Henry Zhao: Yeah, so right now, Stuart has said, not Stuart, what’s his name?
82 00:09:54.850 ⇒ 00:09:56.360 Henry Zhao: Cutter has said… one second.
83 00:09:56.460 ⇒ 00:09:57.529 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Is this not…
84 00:10:01.900 ⇒ 00:10:02.600 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
85 00:10:02.870 ⇒ 00:10:04.170 Henry Zhao: Why did Slack lose?
86 00:10:07.600 ⇒ 00:10:12.079 Henry Zhao: Cutter has said… This is what we’re paying on. He says.
87 00:10:12.870 ⇒ 00:10:20.029 Henry Zhao: We’re paying on the last click action and segment, is that from the affiliate UTM? So first of all, we need to add in that
88 00:10:20.480 ⇒ 00:10:22.029 Henry Zhao: Well, I guess, last time…
89 00:10:22.240 ⇒ 00:10:31.560 Henry Zhao: would just be order completed, right? And then if the conversion happens in 14 days of first click attribution, but we don’t have first click right now, because we don’t have the edge layer and server-side stuff ready.
90 00:10:31.780 ⇒ 00:10:32.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
91 00:10:32.730 ⇒ 00:10:33.300 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
92 00:10:34.160 ⇒ 00:10:39.309 Henry Zhao: So that’s what we need to add, but yeah, I’ll probably move around these slides after I test the intake.
93 00:10:40.000 ⇒ 00:10:40.690 Robert Tseng: Okay.
94 00:10:42.790 ⇒ 00:10:44.909 Henry Zhao: And I’ll get some clarification from Cutter, also.
95 00:10:47.600 ⇒ 00:10:59.599 Henry Zhao: My next topic is on MixedPanel, so I haven’t heard back from Adam yet. But he said he concession Replace would be good. Has he told you anything about what he wants a mixed panel that he’s not telling me?
96 00:11:01.000 ⇒ 00:11:15.949 Robert Tseng: No, I mean, he keeps saying, like, we need to be the ones to drive Mixpanel. Like, he has… he’s opinionated that he wants to use Mixpanel, but clearly he’s not driving adoption of it or whatever, so, it’s completely in our hands on, like, when MixedPanel work gets done. There’s nothing urgent there.
97 00:11:16.240 ⇒ 00:11:26.829 Henry Zhao: Okay, I’m gonna start by the testing the intake and making sure that that’s logged in Mixpanel, but I’ve changed this one to red, just because we haven’t really moved on Mixpanel, so I think two weeks is a little bit ambitious, but I’ll start driving that.
98 00:11:27.490 ⇒ 00:11:28.170 Robert Tseng: Okay.
99 00:11:28.560 ⇒ 00:11:30.589 Henry Zhao: Okay? I just made that red, though. Okay.
100 00:11:30.940 ⇒ 00:11:31.540 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
101 00:11:33.210 ⇒ 00:11:39.279 Henry Zhao: I don’t know what he would want for session replays, though, but I’ll figure it out. But I read these notes…
102 00:11:42.180 ⇒ 00:11:48.260 Henry Zhao: So, what do you think the solution is for the fact that we only have one user? Like, does Adam want to drive usage, or do we want to…
103 00:11:48.470 ⇒ 00:11:50.500 Robert Tseng: No, it has to be us.
104 00:11:53.080 ⇒ 00:11:55.850 Henry Zhao: So what’s the channel we use to use it?
105 00:11:56.390 ⇒ 00:11:57.790 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess…
106 00:11:58.660 ⇒ 00:12:10.179 Robert Tseng: We have to find a couple champions to use it, so that’s why I kind of mentioned… I guess, I didn’t even know she said this. Ryan… Ryan and Judd are probably the primary users that we need to build for first. I guess Ryan does all of those…
107 00:12:11.630 ⇒ 00:12:12.310 Robert Tseng: Ryan?
108 00:12:13.070 ⇒ 00:12:13.870 Robert Tseng: Chad?
109 00:12:13.870 ⇒ 00:12:15.160 Henry Zhao: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
110 00:12:15.610 ⇒ 00:12:17.440 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
111 00:12:17.710 ⇒ 00:12:23.750 Robert Tseng: So… Let me see… is this how you draw this?
112 00:12:26.380 ⇒ 00:12:29.289 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I’m, like, talking to… well, whatever.
113 00:12:29.440 ⇒ 00:12:30.619 Robert Tseng: These guys.
114 00:12:31.160 ⇒ 00:12:33.180 Henry Zhao: Okay? You’re talking to them, okay.
115 00:12:33.990 ⇒ 00:12:40.000 Robert Tseng: Well, I’m saying, when we’re building… once we kick off the mixed panel work, I mean.
116 00:12:41.260 ⇒ 00:12:46.750 Robert Tseng: we need to be building for these users. These are our… the key people that need to adopt it.
117 00:12:46.750 ⇒ 00:12:47.900 Henry Zhao: Right? I think…
118 00:12:47.900 ⇒ 00:12:58.090 Robert Tseng: You probably understand Jud’s workflow better than I do. Ryan just uses Google Analytics, and he has a couple funnel reports that he has set up there.
119 00:12:58.220 ⇒ 00:13:04.169 Robert Tseng: And so it’s about shifting him over to Mixpanel. Anything that he wants to do in Google Analysts, we have to, like.
120 00:13:04.230 ⇒ 00:13:21.800 Robert Tseng: So, like, I think this is part of the adopt… it’s, like, enabling these two to actually start using it and start doing readouts from there, right? So one is obviously the setup, just kind of tuning… tuning anything else that needs to be tuned before we can say, it’s ready to use, now we need to train these two to use it.
121 00:13:22.220 ⇒ 00:13:29.970 Robert Tseng: There are a couple use cases that, like, we kind of, like, discussed on, like, where I see Mixpanel being useful.
122 00:13:30.210 ⇒ 00:13:35.470 Robert Tseng: I don’t really know if I would bucket them this way, but this is just AI notes, I guess, so…
123 00:13:35.570 ⇒ 00:13:54.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then these additional features are not a priority. Like, session replay, yeah, we use them, but from what I’ve… what I know, like, the caps are pretty limited. There’s not really that much you can say. We could activate it if we want, but it’s not… it’s not that… not that urgent. So… Okay.
124 00:13:55.390 ⇒ 00:13:56.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean
125 00:13:57.210 ⇒ 00:14:10.920 Robert Tseng: basically, we need to get these two to use Mixpanel, and then they become the owners… they become the product owners of it, pretty much. So, that’s the only way this is gonna succeed, like, we… that… yeah, so that’s… that’s the way I see it.
126 00:14:11.530 ⇒ 00:14:18.689 Henry Zhao: Okay, so Adam is like, we wanna do this, but he’s not gonna give additional guidance, so I’ll just own it, and do what I think is best, and then we’ll just say, this is the work we’ve done on MixedPanel.
127 00:14:20.140 ⇒ 00:14:26.510 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think just doing the work… I mean, yeah, the work is mostly just gonna be getting them to use it, so…
128 00:14:26.510 ⇒ 00:14:27.090 Henry Zhao: Yeah.
129 00:14:27.430 ⇒ 00:14:28.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
130 00:14:28.570 ⇒ 00:14:32.510 Henry Zhao: Okay, I’ll schedule a call with Judd to just kind of align on where he’s at.
131 00:14:34.890 ⇒ 00:14:35.540 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
132 00:14:35.670 ⇒ 00:14:39.950 Robert Tseng: I think, just picking one or two workflows.
133 00:14:41.130 ⇒ 00:14:48.580 Robert Tseng: and moving them to MixedPanel is a… that’s a good start. Like, I… that’s… that’s how we would get them… get them to use it, so…
134 00:14:48.580 ⇒ 00:14:49.720 Henry Zhao: What do you mean by workflow?
135 00:14:50.880 ⇒ 00:15:04.799 Robert Tseng: like, for Ryan, he… he should be doing the intake QA, not you, by the way. So, I mean, if you’re gonna do it just because you have to go and check it, but, like, he… he owns, like, funnel performance on the intake side. Like, if he’s not doing that, then…
136 00:15:04.930 ⇒ 00:15:22.339 Robert Tseng: he should… he should not have a job. So, yeah, like, I want to be able to move his reporting on intakes into Mixpanel, and he can do any of his intake QA in MixedPanel. That would be one workflow that’s completely out of Google Analytics into Mixpanel.
137 00:15:23.580 ⇒ 00:15:33.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so we’re either replacing workflows, or we’re creating net new workflows. Those are the only two reasons why people would be adopting a new tool. So, yeah, I mean, we don’t have to, like, go and
138 00:15:33.930 ⇒ 00:15:43.799 Robert Tseng: do everything for them. I think our job in the handoff is just to identify one that we’re sure is gonna hit well, and then we just… and we help them move it over.
139 00:15:43.800 ⇒ 00:15:57.570 Robert Tseng: And they’re not gonna drive that change, we’re gonna drive that change. Communicate to ELT that he’s… they’re gonna start reading it out… out of this tool, and that’s what they’re going to be held on the hook for. And assuming that’s… that’s, like, a good…
140 00:15:57.840 ⇒ 00:16:12.829 Robert Tseng: that, you know, they see the… they see the light, they’re like, great, I’m gonna start bringing my other stuff into Mixpanel. Like, that’s… that’s kind of, like, the effect that we need to see. So, I think there is a bit of an art to, like, figuring out what…
141 00:16:12.990 ⇒ 00:16:26.809 Robert Tseng: like, which one to select. I don’t think there’s that much, you know, there’s not that many options, to be honest. So, at least the Ryan use case is very clear to me. Intake reporting should be a mixed panel, but for Judd, I’m not entirely sure what, like, what that would be.
142 00:16:27.080 ⇒ 00:16:38.319 Henry Zhao: I got that. Yeah. I got that. Okay, so I’ll do a mixed panel update on the ELT deck in two weeks. For now, you can delete the attribution or change it if you think that that’s too roadmap-y, but .
143 00:16:38.320 ⇒ 00:16:44.089 Robert Tseng: I might change, I’ll probably change the slides. It’s okay. I’ll give you feedback on that, whatever. Thank you for putting something up.
144 00:16:44.090 ⇒ 00:16:45.110 Henry Zhao: Okay. Cool.
145 00:16:45.810 ⇒ 00:16:47.620 Henry Zhao: Okay, and in 2 weeks, I’ll do Mixed Panel.
146 00:16:47.980 ⇒ 00:16:48.620 Robert Tseng: Okay.
147 00:16:48.620 ⇒ 00:16:51.330 Henry Zhao: Or maybe another… yeah, okay. Cool.
148 00:16:52.020 ⇒ 00:16:52.350 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
149 00:16:52.350 ⇒ 00:16:53.100 Henry Zhao: Thanks, Robert.
150 00:16:53.960 ⇒ 00:16:54.869 Robert Tseng: Anything else?
151 00:16:54.870 ⇒ 00:16:55.580 Henry Zhao: Take care.
152 00:16:56.160 ⇒ 00:16:57.240 Henry Zhao: Nope, that’s it.
153 00:16:57.690 ⇒ 00:17:03.919 Robert Tseng: Okay, wait, let me… so, let me, do I have you… yeah, let me… let me just say a couple things, so…
154 00:17:08.609 ⇒ 00:17:22.999 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I know there’s, like, a lot… there’s a lot more sprawl on Eden, I think, at this point. I… I mean, I think you’re obviously owning… you’re keeping the BAU, like, it’s all, you know, it’s all… you’re definitely kind of propping things up.
155 00:17:23.900 ⇒ 00:17:37.530 Robert Tseng: Tactically, I would like to meet with you more regularly, so when we do our one-on-ones, like, we could talk about, like, how we want to shift the accounts. So a few things that I had mentioned, or I may have mentioned already.
156 00:17:37.690 ⇒ 00:17:39.110 Robert Tseng: One is, like.
157 00:17:39.330 ⇒ 00:17:54.329 Robert Tseng: want you to see, like, how we do budgeting for Eden. So, like, with the remote work, like, I was very insistent that it had to be a net new budget, even though it’s using Awashi’s time, but, like, we need to, like, not… I don’t want to get…
158 00:17:54.480 ⇒ 00:18:10.939 Robert Tseng: forced into a situation where we’re only given a fixed budget, and then we’re taking on all the risk of, like, rotating people in and out in order to, like, complete the work that’s to be done. I think that’s just not realistic, and no organization runs that way. And so…
159 00:18:11.190 ⇒ 00:18:12.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think, like.
160 00:18:13.540 ⇒ 00:18:19.870 Robert Tseng: you know, thinking through those distinct, kind of, groups of work, the remote stuff is what it is.
161 00:18:19.870 ⇒ 00:18:35.210 Robert Tseng: like, data and AI kind of should be one part, but a lot of domain-specific work, especially on the marketing analytics side, anything that requires specialists and, you know, very setup-intensive, eventually that needs to be handed off to someone internally. I know, like, you…
162 00:18:35.210 ⇒ 00:18:44.049 Robert Tseng: you can take on a lot, you can run these initiatives. I mean, you may want to, but I actually think that’s not the best use of your time. So, like, as much as we can…
163 00:18:44.390 ⇒ 00:18:51.460 Robert Tseng: see, like, any maintenance ownership should be Eden’s team. Like, that should not be us. Like,
164 00:18:51.600 ⇒ 00:19:10.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, and I think a lot of the things we take on early, obviously setup, QA ends up being on our hands, but any, like, maintenance and QA going forward, that should be going onto them. So I feel like you should feel like you have the position of authority to kind of push that back onto people, or if you don’t, then we can chat and.
165 00:19:10.070 ⇒ 00:19:10.460 Henry Zhao: No, I do.
166 00:19:10.460 ⇒ 00:19:30.180 Robert Tseng: I can help route… I mean, I’ll have ELT kind of push it down from the top down. So, yeah, I think… just want you to feel that. And then the marketing stakeholders, there’s a lot of people trying to get on… get your time, right? And I feel like you spend a lot of time in meetings. I think you should feel empowered to, like, consolidate as much as you can.
167 00:19:30.390 ⇒ 00:19:44.129 Robert Tseng: And you don’t have to set up all these one-on-ones with people. You want people to come talk to you together in, like, one go. It’s like, these are my hours, you come talk to me. Like, that’s… you can do that. So, like, I want, you know.
168 00:19:44.140 ⇒ 00:20:02.450 Robert Tseng: maybe, like, especially for the marketing people, like, they should all just talk to you all in one go, but maybe it’s harder to coordinate that if you’re talking to Christiana here, and then obviously Cutter and Mitesh, like, we have that Wednesday call ready to suppose… we’re supposed to align with them on that… on those Wednesdays, so…
169 00:20:02.500 ⇒ 00:20:07.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just, you know, want you to be aware that you can do that.
170 00:20:07.640 ⇒ 00:20:08.570 Henry Zhao: Yeah, absolutely.
171 00:20:08.570 ⇒ 00:20:09.290 Robert Tseng: Okay.
172 00:20:10.100 ⇒ 00:20:16.429 Robert Tseng: Yeah, and then the last thing is just on the… yeah, I think…
173 00:20:17.260 ⇒ 00:20:24.210 Robert Tseng: Well, yeah, this is more longer-term play, and I just haven’t gone around to it, but, you know, we talked about
174 00:20:24.840 ⇒ 00:20:33.409 Robert Tseng: working backwards for metrics that we’re moving… that we’re impacting. So, on the lifecycle side, is JUD actually improving
175 00:20:34.460 ⇒ 00:20:46.839 Robert Tseng: reorder rates through his email work. So kind of, like, thinking about how do we measure the performance of, like, the initiatives that we’re… of the projects that we’re working on. I don’t think that’s something that Amber can do, so…
176 00:20:48.170 ⇒ 00:21:04.879 Robert Tseng: I would like to… yeah, so we should spend, like, in our one-on-ones, I would like to spend time talking through, like, how we’re measuring, like, Eden’s impact… like, how Eden’s using, like, the work that we’re doing, because I think that gives us leverage on being able to, like.
177 00:21:05.060 ⇒ 00:21:08.880 Robert Tseng: negotiate for different… budget. Yeah.
178 00:21:10.220 ⇒ 00:21:15.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t like that we’re in… I mean, it was an early deal or whatever that we signed, so we’re… we’re just…
179 00:21:15.780 ⇒ 00:21:22.780 Robert Tseng: They just give us a fixed thing, but, like, it doesn’t really incentivize us to, like, go and get bigger wins for them, so…
180 00:21:22.990 ⇒ 00:21:30.640 Robert Tseng: I’m trying to see how we can restructure, things in order to head in that direction. Yeah.
181 00:21:30.640 ⇒ 00:21:31.180 Henry Zhao: Yep.
182 00:21:31.900 ⇒ 00:21:38.950 Robert Tseng: Cool. So those are the main things that I wanted to bring up, yeah, not urgent, necessarily, though.
183 00:21:40.640 ⇒ 00:21:41.769 Henry Zhao: Yeah, it makes sense, though.
184 00:21:42.660 ⇒ 00:21:43.350 Robert Tseng: Okay.
185 00:21:43.350 ⇒ 00:21:45.889 Henry Zhao: And I think it’s something that I’m already trying to work towards.
186 00:21:46.570 ⇒ 00:21:47.360 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
187 00:21:47.420 ⇒ 00:21:53.139 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, I mean, like, I think, obviously, you’re, like, you know, as much as we could get you
188 00:21:53.150 ⇒ 00:22:08.429 Robert Tseng: I mean, you’re good at going in and, like, kind of starting owning things, and you can be that, like, person that holds the fort down. Like, I think that’s your… this is definitely a strength of yours, and I appreciate that reliability. I think where I’m trying to, like.
189 00:22:09.110 ⇒ 00:22:15.680 Robert Tseng: stretch you more is, like, to… to think more as, like, a consultant, I guess, and
190 00:22:16.330 ⇒ 00:22:30.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, I… I think there’s… there’s more upside that way for… for you, and you’ll… and your time is more leveraged that way, so I think that’s, that’s where I feel like I can maybe work with you, more… more personally on. Yeah.
191 00:22:31.400 ⇒ 00:22:35.080 Henry Zhao: Alright, sounds good. Let me know if you want me to set up weekly one-on-ones so that we can talk about this stuff.
192 00:22:35.080 ⇒ 00:22:38.449 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we should. We should do weekly one-on-ones. Yeah.
193 00:22:38.450 ⇒ 00:22:39.180 Henry Zhao: every week?
194 00:22:39.630 ⇒ 00:22:46.239 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, probably earlier in the week is better, like, Tuesday’s a good, good, good time to do that, yeah.
195 00:22:46.240 ⇒ 00:22:47.090 Henry Zhao: Okay, sounds good.
196 00:22:47.090 ⇒ 00:22:50.949 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Alright, thanks, Andrew. Talk to you later. Bye.
197 00:22:50.950 ⇒ 00:22:51.590 Henry Zhao: Bye.