Meeting Title: Eden Project Scope Discussion Date: 2025-10-06 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Amber Lin, Surfield Thomas, Jr.
WEBVTT
1 00:01:38.070 ⇒ 00:01:39.380 Amber Lin: Hi there!
2 00:01:45.730 ⇒ 00:01:46.780 Awaish Kumar: Hello.
3 00:01:48.590 ⇒ 00:01:56.129 Amber Lin: I… I think Sarah says yes to this end light, so I’m not sure where he is.
4 00:02:03.830 ⇒ 00:02:05.549 Amber Lin: Let me check with him.
5 00:02:09.820 ⇒ 00:02:12.730 Amber Lin: Oh, there we go. Hello!
6 00:02:13.780 ⇒ 00:02:14.829 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hey, how’s everything going?
7 00:02:15.660 ⇒ 00:02:21.659 Amber Lin: Very good. Wanted to see how it was, how it went this weekend.
8 00:02:24.100 ⇒ 00:02:31.100 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So it went good. I figured we could go… because I didn’t know how you wanted us to do the…
9 00:02:31.330 ⇒ 00:02:35.239 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: the doc, but I looked through all the code and stuff.
10 00:02:36.710 ⇒ 00:02:44.600 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So I figured we could go, because, like, I guess we have a DACA right now.
11 00:02:44.720 ⇒ 00:02:55.509 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That is, how many hours… I’ll just tell you exactly what comes out. Expectations are, and then you’ll have the two docs, the one with the original plan, and then the one with the new plan. Does that sound like it?
12 00:02:56.190 ⇒ 00:03:00.230 Amber Lin: Okay, yeah, is there a doc that you can share right now?
13 00:03:00.230 ⇒ 00:03:00.790 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hello.
14 00:03:02.060 ⇒ 00:03:02.660 Amber Lin: Yeah.
15 00:03:02.660 ⇒ 00:03:03.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hey there?
16 00:03:03.490 ⇒ 00:03:07.200 Amber Lin: I can hear you. Your internet’s not the greatest.
17 00:03:15.500 ⇒ 00:03:17.049 Awaish Kumar: I’m like, I’m ready.
18 00:03:22.810 ⇒ 00:03:23.940 Amber Lin: Can you hear me?
19 00:03:29.460 ⇒ 00:03:30.570 Awaish Kumar: Hi, Ken.
20 00:03:31.350 ⇒ 00:03:32.020 Amber Lin: Hmm.
21 00:03:39.580 ⇒ 00:03:40.260 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: All of it.
22 00:03:54.720 ⇒ 00:03:58.610 Amber Lin: Surf, do you mind trying… Yeah.
23 00:03:58.610 ⇒ 00:03:59.149 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Can you hear me?
24 00:03:59.150 ⇒ 00:04:02.630 Amber Lin: Yeah, I can fire you, I can hear a wish, can you hear me?
25 00:04:02.820 ⇒ 00:04:03.709 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I can hear you.
26 00:04:04.010 ⇒ 00:04:04.820 Amber Lin: Okay, awesome.
27 00:04:04.820 ⇒ 00:04:22.049 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I was saying, if you wanted, you could, let’s open the dock with the time estimates, duplicate it, and then I’ll tell you exactly what to pull out, and then that’s the thing I think we want to get, the ETL or ELT team to sign off on, I think.
28 00:04:22.570 ⇒ 00:04:26.020 Amber Lin: Yeah, so we want… They’re…
29 00:04:26.020 ⇒ 00:04:32.819 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I just don’t want them to pay for things that they don’t want, and I need… we need them to basically tell us what to build, because a lot of this stuff in there is, like.
30 00:04:33.130 ⇒ 00:04:36.619 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Best practices, but if they’ve already decided to just do
31 00:04:36.930 ⇒ 00:04:41.310 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: whatever, then… I can… there’s a bunch of stuff that can be skipped.
32 00:04:41.910 ⇒ 00:04:42.800 Amber Lin: Okay.
33 00:04:43.240 ⇒ 00:04:50.580 Amber Lin: Duplicate… proposal. October… Alright.
34 00:04:53.060 ⇒ 00:04:59.029 Amber Lin: Yeah, I sent it in… The doc, I named it Remoables October.
35 00:04:59.790 ⇒ 00:05:00.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay.
36 00:05:02.290 ⇒ 00:05:05.330 Amber Lin: Do you want to share a screen, and then we can look at it together?
37 00:05:05.330 ⇒ 00:05:10.150 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yep, yep, I’ll share screen Shut there.
38 00:05:14.260 ⇒ 00:05:15.590 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Can you guys see my screen?
39 00:05:17.880 ⇒ 00:05:21.689 Amber Lin: Mmm… still loading.
40 00:05:22.560 ⇒ 00:05:23.810 Amber Lin: Yeah, I can see.
41 00:05:24.930 ⇒ 00:05:28.409 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, hold on.
42 00:05:29.030 ⇒ 00:05:38.170 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hurrah… Alright, so… Yep.
43 00:05:38.490 ⇒ 00:05:43.689 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, if they’re gonna go with, whatever he recommended, this one’s out.
44 00:05:46.620 ⇒ 00:05:48.420 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Line through…
45 00:05:51.580 ⇒ 00:05:52.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright.
46 00:05:56.060 ⇒ 00:05:57.480 Awaish Kumar: I think, yeah, so I’ll be in.
47 00:06:01.470 ⇒ 00:06:03.590 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Why isn’t it blind through? Alright, cool.
48 00:06:07.030 ⇒ 00:06:07.800 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Thanks.
49 00:06:08.560 ⇒ 00:06:09.350 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, wait.
50 00:06:09.350 ⇒ 00:06:19.419 Amber Lin: just go with planet scale? Are we not gonna… should we… I feel like we should raise that to the ELT of potential downsides of how they’re doing things right now.
51 00:06:19.610 ⇒ 00:06:25.130 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And see, but that’s what I’m saying. So it’s like… like… again.
52 00:06:26.230 ⇒ 00:06:31.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I think we should raise all the things, because again, we’re in a weird spot where it’s like…
53 00:06:32.090 ⇒ 00:06:36.780 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, I… Dude, it should be a full assessment.
54 00:06:37.130 ⇒ 00:06:51.500 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But if they’re making decisions to say they’re just gonna do it that way already, then there’s no assessment to do, right? Because, like, that’s my whole, like, I guess the whole thing, right? Like, usually when you buy something from another company, you want to assess it against your platform. If they’re saying.
55 00:06:51.500 ⇒ 00:06:51.890 Amber Lin: there’s gonna.
56 00:06:51.890 ⇒ 00:06:57.039 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: use it however it is, then the only net new things are,
57 00:06:57.650 ⇒ 00:07:01.719 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, hold on, where’s… why is my thing not scrolling?
58 00:07:02.090 ⇒ 00:07:08.519 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The only net new things are, like, the event-driven architecture and that stuff, because that doesn’t exist.
59 00:07:09.150 ⇒ 00:07:16.440 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, the segment stuff, that’s… that would be in play, but, like, if we’re gonna use trigger.dev instead of…
60 00:07:16.580 ⇒ 00:07:18.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: RabbitMQ, then this whole thing is gone.
61 00:07:19.520 ⇒ 00:07:28.890 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? So that’s what I’m saying. So, like, I can… I looked at the code. Code is, like, it doesn’t do much. It’s not like it’s a really big, vast codebase, but…
62 00:07:29.810 ⇒ 00:07:42.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: from the perspective of, like, what the analysis should be, the analysis should be, is this up to our standards? I don’t know what their standards are, but based on what he said, I can pull out all the things that he said they’re just gonna go with.
63 00:07:44.840 ⇒ 00:07:49.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, this. Gone, because they’re just gonna go with trigger.dev.
64 00:07:50.690 ⇒ 00:07:55.929 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which, again, I don’t know if that really scales up to their use case.
65 00:07:57.770 ⇒ 00:08:03.049 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So… I guess, I guess… I guess…
66 00:08:05.380 ⇒ 00:08:13.610 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m saying we can line out the items, and then show them what they’re not getting, which reduces the overall scope, and then see if that makes sense.
67 00:08:16.150 ⇒ 00:08:19.630 Amber Lin: Okay, is there any other items that’s affected?
68 00:08:20.330 ⇒ 00:08:21.540 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: What do you mean?
69 00:08:22.360 ⇒ 00:08:24.450 Amber Lin: Other than what we just crossed out.
70 00:08:24.580 ⇒ 00:08:28.230 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I’m just… I’m so… my thing is lagging.
71 00:08:28.740 ⇒ 00:08:34.950 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: infrastructure best practices, security, backups, monitoring, role query…
72 00:08:38.559 ⇒ 00:08:41.819 Awaish Kumar: What are the few things which we can reduce in this stage to zero?
73 00:08:43.090 ⇒ 00:08:44.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: all the things that I’m lining out go to zero.
74 00:08:47.440 ⇒ 00:08:49.659 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: There’d be no hosting?
75 00:08:49.990 ⇒ 00:08:52.689 Awaish Kumar: I mean, in this document we have, stage zero.
76 00:08:53.320 ⇒ 00:08:56.059 Awaish Kumar: Which amounts for, like, 30 hours of work.
77 00:08:58.290 ⇒ 00:08:59.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m not understanding the question.
78 00:09:01.310 ⇒ 00:09:01.670 Awaish Kumar: for now.
79 00:09:01.670 ⇒ 00:09:08.549 Amber Lin: Scroll up to… Before that, so in discovery.
80 00:09:08.550 ⇒ 00:09:16.220 Awaish Kumar: Is there… is there anything which we can just, remove here and save some of our time?
81 00:09:19.090 ⇒ 00:09:31.199 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Stakeholder interviews and workshops, we didn’t start this. Current DV and infrastructure audit. We only did parts of this one already. I did 3 of the hours here already.
82 00:09:32.220 ⇒ 00:09:35.190 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, should I, like, just make this now 9?
83 00:09:35.580 ⇒ 00:09:40.800 Amber Lin: No, we will keep it at… well, because we will still billed the hours that you spent already.
84 00:09:40.800 ⇒ 00:09:43.029 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Got you, okay, yeah, so this is not done.
85 00:09:43.220 ⇒ 00:09:48.430 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I didn’t do any documentation yet. Risk bottlenecks, assess analysts? No.
86 00:09:48.770 ⇒ 00:09:53.089 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Roadmap recommendation, that stuff’s not done yet. So, no, none of this is done yet.
87 00:09:53.500 ⇒ 00:09:56.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Except for the 3 hours that I spent here, so those are already.
88 00:09:56.990 ⇒ 00:10:01.280 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, my question was more like, if we can… Like…
89 00:10:02.750 ⇒ 00:10:06.370 Awaish Kumar: Take a few things out of our scope from, like, this…
90 00:10:08.130 ⇒ 00:10:12.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Not from Stage Zero, because this is… these are all, like, the basic stuff that have to get done.
91 00:10:14.440 ⇒ 00:10:18.879 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. I’m taking out more along the lines of the stuff that, like.
92 00:10:19.070 ⇒ 00:10:27.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: they have optionality around. Like, if you don’t want me to do an analysis between what your hosting options are, because you’ve already chosen, then gone.
93 00:10:28.610 ⇒ 00:10:35.429 Amber Lin: Can you also line out what the consequences of not doing that might be? I think that’s what they care about.
94 00:10:35.660 ⇒ 00:10:36.820 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Gotcha, cool.
95 00:10:38.650 ⇒ 00:10:40.670 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Let me finish the lineup, though.
96 00:10:41.760 ⇒ 00:10:48.599 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Access control… Alright, Remo, you just triggered, that’s what I’m saying, so, like, that’d be gone.
97 00:10:48.870 ⇒ 00:10:58.070 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Define event-driven taxonomy in… Event collection integration. This they need, because the current system doesn’t do this.
98 00:10:58.320 ⇒ 00:11:05.040 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: BigQuery schema, data pipeline… POC, dev environment…
99 00:11:07.480 ⇒ 00:11:10.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s actual… this is build stuff, but on their side.
100 00:11:10.960 ⇒ 00:11:16.659 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think everything there seems that we’re gonna have to do, because none of them exist yet.
101 00:11:26.220 ⇒ 00:11:26.960 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah
102 00:11:27.110 ⇒ 00:11:38.109 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s, I think, all of the stuff, which is a big chunk, right? 12 hours here, 16 hours there, 8 hours there, so what, 36 hours gone?
103 00:11:38.960 ⇒ 00:11:40.930 Amber Lin: I see.
104 00:11:44.850 ⇒ 00:11:46.290 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, where’s at the top?
105 00:11:46.420 ⇒ 00:11:49.789 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, I thought this had the one where it showed how many hours I had.
106 00:11:50.420 ⇒ 00:11:56.679 Amber Lin: I think total you have around 120, based on the original plan, or, like…
107 00:11:57.000 ⇒ 00:12:00.380 Amber Lin: 120 or 150-ish? I forgot.
108 00:12:00.380 ⇒ 00:12:00.910 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yep.
109 00:12:01.150 ⇒ 00:12:03.770 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So we just removed 36 hours.
110 00:12:04.110 ⇒ 00:12:04.900 Amber Lin: Yeah.
111 00:12:05.040 ⇒ 00:12:14.980 Amber Lin: But we need to confirm on those before we cancel it, because I really don’t think it’s in Eden’s best interest if we just grab what Remo said.
112 00:12:15.200 ⇒ 00:12:21.220 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Bingo. Now you… that’s the real kicker, right? It’s like… Because, like, again.
113 00:12:21.730 ⇒ 00:12:25.650 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Are you basically saying, hey, look at my thing, do you think it looks nice?
114 00:12:25.990 ⇒ 00:12:40.780 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which is the easy assessment to do, versus look at my thing, and then look at the other thing, and see if, like, they’re gonna work together, right? Or if they’re gonna be optimal together, and that’s the bigger ticket item. So usually I’m brought in for that.
115 00:12:41.160 ⇒ 00:12:49.489 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: The bigger ticket item, not the, we’re just gonna stick this in and just hope it works, because then, like, you just do the thing, and you don’t do an assessment.
116 00:12:50.470 ⇒ 00:13:03.999 Amber Lin: Yeah, makes sense. I think what we’re most likely going to go with is our… I think, because we need to discuss, like, how much money they pay us, or how long the contract is with Eden,
117 00:13:04.000 ⇒ 00:13:17.810 Amber Lin: So, the two options is, one, reduce scope, and two, to do the same scope, but over a longer time period. I think it’s most likely that we keep what we have before, and then,
118 00:13:18.090 ⇒ 00:13:23.289 Amber Lin: Ask them for renewals or for expansions based on this current contract.
119 00:13:23.290 ⇒ 00:13:39.369 Amber Lin: What do you think is the, say, the least we can get done in 2 months’ time? Do you think we can get everything up until, say, like, the BigQuery integration, and then actually integrating with their system, so we’ll just do the audit, and then
120 00:13:39.370 ⇒ 00:13:44.559 Amber Lin: the… Architecture, design, and stuff in the two months.
121 00:13:44.560 ⇒ 00:13:49.369 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Everything up to Stage 2, we can get done in, in 2 months, easily.
122 00:13:49.870 ⇒ 00:13:50.710 Amber Lin: Okay.
123 00:13:51.070 ⇒ 00:13:52.160 Amber Lin: I see.
124 00:13:52.780 ⇒ 00:14:04.880 Amber Lin: then I would still… I really would like us to do the full investigation, because I just don’t think it’s very responsible if we just say, hey, they made the decision, you hired consultants, but we’re just gonna go with their decision.
125 00:14:04.970 ⇒ 00:14:19.379 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly the point. It’s like, ideally, you’re consulting me on the entire, like, us on the entirety of the thing, like, is it built to withstand the test of time? Like, this trigger death thing makes me so nervous.
126 00:14:20.470 ⇒ 00:14:31.419 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Like, because that thing’s like, it’s… it’s, like, Zapier. And it’s, like, to run your system on top of that seems crazy.
127 00:14:31.610 ⇒ 00:14:35.099 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like, again, if they’ve already decided that, cool.
128 00:14:35.880 ⇒ 00:14:36.570 Amber Lin: I know.
129 00:14:36.570 ⇒ 00:14:37.230 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right?
130 00:14:37.580 ⇒ 00:14:37.880 Amber Lin: Oh.
131 00:14:38.180 ⇒ 00:14:39.629 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That just seems weird.
132 00:14:40.880 ⇒ 00:14:45.919 Amber Lin: Yeah. Right, so we’ll build that proposal. I…
133 00:14:46.090 ⇒ 00:15:00.669 Amber Lin: I’ll try and take what I have this meeting. We have a meeting with them this Wednesday, so I think that’s the latest where we can get a sign-off. Robert’s gonna negotiate if we can extend the time and get renewals after that.
134 00:15:00.780 ⇒ 00:15:03.730 Amber Lin: But we just need to tell them…
135 00:15:03.960 ⇒ 00:15:10.370 Amber Lin: the risks that we see, especially what you just mentioned. Is there a way you can…
136 00:15:10.740 ⇒ 00:15:29.079 Amber Lin: write that out. I know we said we want to work on a questions doc of any suspicious-looking things, any things that we need to know about Eden’s system, can we have a full-blown list of questions that we can send over to them, so maybe their tech lead can help, help answer that?
137 00:15:29.430 ⇒ 00:15:32.940 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool, sweet. I will work on that right… right after this.
138 00:15:33.260 ⇒ 00:15:33.640 Amber Lin: Okay.
139 00:15:33.640 ⇒ 00:15:35.289 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Where do you want me to… where do you want me to add them?
140 00:15:35.730 ⇒ 00:15:39.569 Amber Lin: You can honestly just dump it at the bottom of the stock.
141 00:15:39.750 ⇒ 00:15:45.820 Amber Lin: Like, it doesn’t even need to be pretty, I’ll just… I can help clean it up, I just… I just need the thought there.
142 00:15:48.290 ⇒ 00:15:54.439 Amber Lin: Yeah, and you can also delete this section of open questions, because I… this is a duplicate, so I have the original ones.
143 00:15:54.790 ⇒ 00:15:55.860 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, cool, sweet.
144 00:15:55.860 ⇒ 00:15:59.049 Amber Lin: Yeah. Ouiz, any questions from your side?
145 00:16:00.650 ⇒ 00:16:06.760 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I was… Also thinking about, like, some of the…
146 00:16:07.550 ⇒ 00:16:11.050 Awaish Kumar: Like, removing some of the things, like.
147 00:16:11.650 ⇒ 00:16:16.300 Awaish Kumar: There was one ticket, like, regarding query optimization and indexing.
148 00:16:20.760 ⇒ 00:16:26.709 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I mean, again… The way that it’s set up right now has…
149 00:16:27.050 ⇒ 00:16:32.659 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: stuff like that. If they don’t want to make sure that they’re optimal or stuff like that, we could take it out.
150 00:16:33.060 ⇒ 00:16:37.200 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But again, it’s like, it’s, again, we’re moving very much close to the, like.
151 00:16:37.540 ⇒ 00:16:39.719 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: here’s the thing that I gave you.
152 00:16:40.880 ⇒ 00:16:42.240 Awaish Kumar: Is it pretty?
153 00:16:42.310 ⇒ 00:16:45.769 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: do it, and like, again, I’m fine with that.
154 00:16:46.190 ⇒ 00:16:47.350 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s what we want to do.
155 00:16:47.540 ⇒ 00:16:47.970 Awaish Kumar: So…
156 00:16:47.970 ⇒ 00:16:48.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like…
157 00:16:48.580 ⇒ 00:16:57.870 Awaish Kumar: prefer Basically, plan for today was, to come up with a proposal with a minimal, kind of.
158 00:16:58.300 ⇒ 00:17:07.920 Awaish Kumar: things, like, we can give them two options. Like, keep the original one, but we are going to maybe increase the price, or
159 00:17:08.200 ⇒ 00:17:14.420 Awaish Kumar: Maybe take this, the second proposal, which… which is only going to do the minimum.
160 00:17:14.930 ⇒ 00:17:18.090 Awaish Kumar: But, like… but that’s, like…
161 00:17:18.550 ⇒ 00:17:23.519 Awaish Kumar: We will… in the second one, we will keep the, like, the most challenging things.
162 00:17:24.740 ⇒ 00:17:31.300 Awaish Kumar: in terms of, like, in terms of Aiden’s context, and then, like, leave everything else out.
163 00:17:32.490 ⇒ 00:17:34.840 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, let’s, let’s rephrase this then.
164 00:17:37.930 ⇒ 00:17:42.270 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So Alright.
165 00:17:42.850 ⇒ 00:17:46.399 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This is needed because it doesn’t exist in the current platform.
166 00:17:46.600 ⇒ 00:17:51.989 Awaish Kumar: This is needed because it doesn’t exist in the current platform. So, like, all of these are necessary.
167 00:17:53.470 ⇒ 00:17:54.579 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Except for this one.
168 00:17:56.840 ⇒ 00:17:57.470 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, true?
169 00:17:57.900 ⇒ 00:18:02.389 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Technically, This can be lined out.
170 00:18:05.320 ⇒ 00:18:08.069 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Role-based… this could be lined out.
171 00:18:10.810 ⇒ 00:18:13.179 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I mean, best practices?
172 00:18:13.310 ⇒ 00:18:20.399 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Is it… this could be lined out? Like, anything that’s not net new can be lined out, because it’s already built into the system.
173 00:18:21.040 ⇒ 00:18:24.009 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: There’s gonna be no assessment on if it’s good or not.
174 00:18:24.780 ⇒ 00:18:30.359 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So it’ll just be like, can you make these net new things work with the old system?
175 00:18:30.820 ⇒ 00:18:36.750 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And, like, the answer to that is yes, but is the old system built the right way? You won’t have the answer to that.
176 00:18:39.190 ⇒ 00:18:39.840 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
177 00:18:42.000 ⇒ 00:18:43.599 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You’ll probably just need this.
178 00:18:43.870 ⇒ 00:18:50.229 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And this, like, the architecture of how it’s designed so that whoever’s working with it can work with it easier.
179 00:18:50.470 ⇒ 00:18:55.979 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then… stakeholder interviews, ERDs… yeah.
180 00:18:58.020 ⇒ 00:19:00.239 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, if you’re talking minimal?
181 00:19:00.730 ⇒ 00:19:06.849 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This would be the minimal, because it’s basically, all this stuff already exists, just document how it works.
182 00:19:07.790 ⇒ 00:19:10.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So there’s no new one.
183 00:19:12.650 ⇒ 00:19:18.430 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: There’s no policies here… You just get the infrastructure, Doc.
184 00:19:23.450 ⇒ 00:19:24.330 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
185 00:19:29.140 ⇒ 00:19:33.169 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because again, it’s already… builds, and I’m using air quotes.
186 00:19:33.380 ⇒ 00:19:36.469 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Because, like, again, it hasn’t really been tested.
187 00:19:36.620 ⇒ 00:19:39.520 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But the code exists as a thing.
188 00:19:39.690 ⇒ 00:19:41.639 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So if we wanted to just say, hey, make this…
189 00:19:41.930 ⇒ 00:19:46.169 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: make this work with the event streaming and the BigQuery stuff, then yeah, we can just do that.
190 00:19:48.080 ⇒ 00:19:53.280 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But it would be skipping the actual assessment on, is this code solid?
191 00:19:59.830 ⇒ 00:20:02.600 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, like, actually, it’s kind of… hold on.
192 00:20:02.600 ⇒ 00:20:06.219 Awaish Kumar: So, we just want to be at the stage where, like.
193 00:20:06.330 ⇒ 00:20:10.310 Awaish Kumar: We can say whatever we have delivered in two months’ time is…
194 00:20:11.150 ⇒ 00:20:19.740 Awaish Kumar: From engineering perspective, that was, like, really, we have solved, like, really challenging Problem for Aiden.
195 00:20:21.720 ⇒ 00:20:23.479 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, what he sent me was, like.
196 00:20:25.400 ⇒ 00:20:34.219 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Remo Code Challenge, so I don’t know if this is, like… I’m assuming this is the entire thing, but, like, the codebase is very small.
197 00:20:40.570 ⇒ 00:20:44.179 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You guys might not know code, but, like, there’s not a lot of things here.
198 00:20:53.810 ⇒ 00:20:55.539 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Just a bunch of transformations and moves.
199 00:20:56.800 ⇒ 00:21:02.769 Amber Lin: I pinged him again, I don’t even know if this is the most updated repo.
200 00:21:03.180 ⇒ 00:21:06.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, it was weird, because I was like, why is it called Remo Co. Challenge?
201 00:21:08.180 ⇒ 00:21:14.190 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: It seems like the challenge that they give to engine… like, startup engineers, but I’m assuming this is the entirety of the thing?
202 00:21:19.080 ⇒ 00:21:21.180 Awaish Kumar: That’s not my…
203 00:21:21.740 ⇒ 00:21:28.149 Amber Lin: I… I bumped him again to get the documents, I just… It’s not the…
204 00:21:28.640 ⇒ 00:21:36.040 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, so we’re, again, we’re just in a weird spot, because, like, even this, like, I still had to spend 2 hours going through this.
205 00:21:36.230 ⇒ 00:21:43.329 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So now to hear that it’s not the right thing, it’s like, again, like, the weirdness between it is burning money for them.
206 00:21:43.930 ⇒ 00:21:45.679 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which doesn’t make any sense.
207 00:21:48.930 ⇒ 00:21:55.860 Awaish Kumar: So, like, so, in the architecture, in the stage one, can we have, like, you mentioned having an architecture document.
208 00:21:55.960 ⇒ 00:22:15.560 Awaish Kumar: And can we have, like, second deliverable, instead of, like, going into individual, like, redesigning the database strategy? Instead of, like, having this individual deliverables, can we just say, that’s your current architecture, and that’s our…
209 00:22:15.710 ⇒ 00:22:19.280 Awaish Kumar: assessment around this? Like, what are the…
210 00:22:21.060 ⇒ 00:22:29.489 Awaish Kumar: Like, we can just pinpoint what are the problems and things like that, and if then they want to, like.
211 00:22:29.800 ⇒ 00:22:31.250 Awaish Kumar: Like…
212 00:22:31.640 ⇒ 00:22:41.849 Awaish Kumar: If then, after that, they want us to, like, increase our scope and work more on it, then we start adding more individual deliverables for them.
213 00:22:43.050 ⇒ 00:22:53.280 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, yes, so I guess, alright, look at it like this. So, here’s an example of an RFC, right, document that I’ve written, and this is just one of the examples. But, like, you can see, there’s API flows.
214 00:22:54.390 ⇒ 00:22:59.880 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: there’s, like, ERD diagrams, there’s business logic, Right? So, like…
215 00:23:00.260 ⇒ 00:23:05.820 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I, like, and in this example, it’s 23 pages, and this is for one API.
216 00:23:07.400 ⇒ 00:23:14.049 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? So it’s like, again, I’ll go any level of depth That they want.
217 00:23:14.750 ⇒ 00:23:15.130 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
218 00:23:15.130 ⇒ 00:23:23.519 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: the more the depth, the better the result, the longer the time, but, like, I can… I just need to kind of figure out where we are in the stack.
219 00:23:23.740 ⇒ 00:23:29.370 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And it just seems like, from Cameron’s side, it seems like… Everything’s already been decided.
220 00:23:30.160 ⇒ 00:23:30.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
221 00:23:30.870 ⇒ 00:23:31.240 Awaish Kumar: Gumbo?
222 00:23:31.240 ⇒ 00:23:35.460 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: with that. But again, kind of to you guys’ point.
223 00:23:35.630 ⇒ 00:23:38.900 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That doesn’t seem like what’s best for Eden.
224 00:23:41.010 ⇒ 00:23:42.489 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, it’s just like…
225 00:23:44.260 ⇒ 00:23:53.409 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m used to working on the Eden side, looking at the thing objectively, saying, no, this is ugly compared to our systems, we need it to work this way.
226 00:23:54.020 ⇒ 00:23:54.740 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know.
227 00:23:55.340 ⇒ 00:23:58.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I just don’t have enough call-out from Eden on what they want.
228 00:24:02.940 ⇒ 00:24:18.760 Amber Lin: Can you add that to the document? So we want to confirm of, like, what level of quality they want versus time. Is there a more quantitative comparison?
229 00:24:19.310 ⇒ 00:24:26.169 Amber Lin: That we can give them of, if we take this much time, you will get this much quality type of trade-off
230 00:24:26.590 ⇒ 00:24:28.809 Amber Lin: Can we give them that type of thing?
231 00:24:28.810 ⇒ 00:24:30.709 Awaish Kumar: Like, who’s the highest…
232 00:24:30.710 ⇒ 00:24:36.979 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: ranking person that we could talk to on the Eden side from the technology perspective?
233 00:24:38.310 ⇒ 00:24:43.349 Amber Lin: I fear that they have fired most of their engineers.
234 00:24:44.220 ⇒ 00:24:45.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Who eat him?
235 00:24:45.700 ⇒ 00:24:46.850 Amber Lin: Yes.
236 00:24:47.180 ⇒ 00:24:50.069 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, snap. I think it’s us.
237 00:24:50.140 ⇒ 00:24:54.539 Amber Lin: It’s us, so that’s why we need to do this where Eden.
238 00:24:55.490 ⇒ 00:25:09.220 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, well, alright, that… see? There’s more context. Thank you for that context. Alright, well, sweet. Because I know Remo was saying that they’re gonna hire people, but I thought it was just for this. So I’m like, Eden already has a tech stack, and an engineering team.
239 00:25:09.770 ⇒ 00:25:11.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But if that’s not true.
240 00:25:11.500 ⇒ 00:25:19.970 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, there’s a… their engineering team is us, which then there’s a conflict of interest, because we are contracted with.
241 00:25:19.970 ⇒ 00:25:22.370 Amber Lin: We… Technically.
242 00:25:22.820 ⇒ 00:25:27.810 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, but, like, alright, when you say us, do you mean, like, us on this call, or like…
243 00:25:28.200 ⇒ 00:25:31.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Brain Forge already is their engineering force.
244 00:25:32.080 ⇒ 00:25:32.910 Amber Lin: Yes.
245 00:25:34.900 ⇒ 00:25:35.600 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay.
246 00:25:35.600 ⇒ 00:25:41.170 Awaish Kumar: I… I think what we could… like, Amber, can you share, like, what are the…
247 00:25:41.840 ⇒ 00:25:47.600 Awaish Kumar: Like, optimal number of hours, like, What so?
248 00:25:47.600 ⇒ 00:25:57.999 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hold on, Amber, quick question, I want you to dive in there. When you say it’s us, you mean, like, there’s, like, a group of engineers, call them three, that work for Brainforge, that work specifically on the Eden product?
249 00:25:58.880 ⇒ 00:26:03.750 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yes. So, on Eden, we have Oish, we have the Made.
250 00:26:03.750 ⇒ 00:26:15.860 Amber Lin: And then we have Henry. So we handle their… we’re their data team, essentially. We handle data engineering requests, and then all the way to analytics and dashboards. So we do this for them.
251 00:26:16.220 ⇒ 00:26:22.360 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But what about, like, their, like, backend servers, APIs, that sort of stuff? You guys don’t handle that.
252 00:26:23.350 ⇒ 00:26:24.670 Awaish Kumar: No, no, like, they have their…
253 00:26:24.670 ⇒ 00:26:25.130 Amber Lin: Okay.
254 00:26:25.130 ⇒ 00:26:30.699 Awaish Kumar: They are using the platform called Bask, right? It’s a third-party platform.
255 00:26:31.350 ⇒ 00:26:35.730 Awaish Kumar: Agreed. That’s basically handles backend, right?
256 00:26:35.860 ⇒ 00:26:37.530 Awaish Kumar: That’s the complete system.
257 00:26:37.530 ⇒ 00:26:42.449 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Let me… yeah, let me… hold on. I… alright, so BASC is just one piece of it, right?
258 00:26:42.660 ⇒ 00:26:46.210 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: beyond BASC, there’s still more system.
259 00:26:46.750 ⇒ 00:26:50.589 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? It’s not like they just use BAS to run their whole operation.
260 00:26:50.940 ⇒ 00:27:04.699 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, there are all operations are… are being run from Basque, and then, obviously, there are more tools. For example, CIO for marketing, like, marketing platforms, like.
261 00:27:04.930 ⇒ 00:27:16.009 Awaish Kumar: Northbeam, Google Ads, and things like that. For that, we are handling that. So, like, Brainforge is handling all of their marketing work, all of their…
262 00:27:16.230 ⇒ 00:27:18.530 Awaish Kumar: Kind of, analytics work.
263 00:27:18.940 ⇒ 00:27:23.410 Awaish Kumar: And, and the core operations are being run from Basque.
264 00:27:24.320 ⇒ 00:27:26.049 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Got you. Okay, so…
265 00:27:26.420 ⇒ 00:27:33.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, let me just make sure I’m… because I want to make… because I think if I understand it better, I can help you better. So let me just make sure.
266 00:27:36.490 ⇒ 00:27:46.950 Amber Lin: Yeah, I’m trying to find… I’m in their, like, their HR… Page right now.
267 00:27:49.070 ⇒ 00:27:51.020 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This is the company, right?
268 00:27:51.500 ⇒ 00:27:52.159 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah.
269 00:27:52.160 ⇒ 00:27:57.929 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool, sweet, alright. And you’re looking through their hire… their… and you’re looking for engineers now, right?
270 00:27:58.440 ⇒ 00:27:59.140 Amber Lin: Yeah.
271 00:28:00.970 ⇒ 00:28:03.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, I guess my question is, like, this webpage.
272 00:28:04.610 ⇒ 00:28:10.409 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Is it, like, is it just, like, Shopify? Or is there, like, people, like, people coded it?
273 00:28:11.420 ⇒ 00:28:12.150 Awaish Kumar: Right?
274 00:28:12.150 ⇒ 00:28:17.729 Amber Lin: part-time developers, which I don’t know if they’re still with them anymore.
275 00:28:18.840 ⇒ 00:28:21.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: All their developers are part-time.
276 00:28:22.500 ⇒ 00:28:28.050 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, now I get it. Okay. Whoa. Oh, snap.
277 00:28:28.360 ⇒ 00:28:32.160 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hold on.
278 00:28:34.960 ⇒ 00:28:40.439 Amber Lin: And I think there’s Ayush, which we talked to on their team, which…
279 00:28:40.440 ⇒ 00:28:41.449 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, he doesn’t…
280 00:28:41.450 ⇒ 00:28:43.020 Amber Lin: That’s…
281 00:28:43.020 ⇒ 00:28:45.660 Awaish Kumar: Working on one of the upcoming projects.
282 00:28:45.660 ⇒ 00:28:47.599 Amber Lin: Yeah, he also had no clue.
283 00:28:52.580 ⇒ 00:28:53.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay.
284 00:28:54.250 ⇒ 00:28:58.700 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, now… I feel like I understand this a little more.
285 00:28:59.380 ⇒ 00:29:12.299 Amber Lin: Yeah, so it’s safe to say they have… they also… their CTO either got fired or left, so they just have no one technically that’s able to make sound decisions for them. That’s why this contract kind of came to life.
286 00:29:12.590 ⇒ 00:29:20.639 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool, now this makes sense. I definitely do think in that result, they definitely need the full assessment plan.
287 00:29:23.330 ⇒ 00:29:27.829 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cause, like, I’m looking at this right now, they’re looking for a lead.
288 00:29:28.570 ⇒ 00:29:34.709 Amber Lin: Yeah, they also asked Robert for recommendations, or can someone please help them lead, because they have nobody.
289 00:29:39.680 ⇒ 00:29:40.690 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, boy.
290 00:29:55.660 ⇒ 00:30:00.310 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, I’m looking at this, what… it doesn’t even tell you what programming language to use, oh my goodness.
291 00:30:05.280 ⇒ 00:30:12.329 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, alright, no, no, this makes sense. Okay, cool. We can solve this.
292 00:30:13.530 ⇒ 00:30:17.639 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: From what I’m hearing now, I think Eden actually doesn’t need the whole thing.
293 00:30:19.130 ⇒ 00:30:20.010 Amber Lin: Yep.
294 00:30:20.010 ⇒ 00:30:22.010 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: If they want it faster.
295 00:30:22.810 ⇒ 00:30:29.300 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, the best result is gonna be, they get the whole thing, I bump up my hours.
296 00:30:29.420 ⇒ 00:30:31.540 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And we can get it to them in 2 months.
297 00:30:32.210 ⇒ 00:30:32.810 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right?
298 00:30:34.020 ⇒ 00:30:39.680 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Removing things based on all of this, I do not think is a great idea.
299 00:30:40.130 ⇒ 00:30:46.869 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because… It seems like, technically, there’s no one there. And if there’s no one there technically.
300 00:30:47.550 ⇒ 00:30:56.630 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Sticking this new tech To an org with, like, no tech leader is definitely going to be… Tough.
301 00:30:57.400 ⇒ 00:31:02.680 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because, like, they’re also not using, like, best in class and building it around someone.
302 00:31:03.470 ⇒ 00:31:10.710 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Now, you’re just taking a new piece of thing that was built in this weird, foreign way, and sticking it to something that, like, no one has control over.
303 00:31:11.220 ⇒ 00:31:13.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So we’re definitely in a weird spot.
304 00:31:14.480 ⇒ 00:31:25.640 Amber Lin: Gotcha. So, yeah, I think also on our side, Robert, who’s account owner, doesn’t want to reduce scope. Uten doesn’t want to reduce our scope,
305 00:31:25.640 ⇒ 00:31:41.720 Amber Lin: I think it’s more of, do we do it in a longer time, or do we get paid more in a shorter period and then do it in 2 months? I think that’s the discussion they’ll have. But for now, let’s just stick to our original scope. Orish, are you comfortable with that?
306 00:31:42.090 ⇒ 00:31:42.879 Amber Lin: Because I really think.
307 00:31:42.880 ⇒ 00:31:46.120 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it doesn’t make sense, like, like…
308 00:31:46.510 ⇒ 00:31:50.540 Awaish Kumar: Our deliverables should be, like, meaningful for them.
309 00:31:50.790 ⇒ 00:31:56.790 Awaish Kumar: I think it does make sense. We shouldn’t remove the… reduce the scope, And…
310 00:31:57.640 ⇒ 00:32:02.360 Awaish Kumar: But we should all still go with two options, as you mentioned, like…
311 00:32:02.520 ⇒ 00:32:03.180 Amber Lin: Yep.
312 00:32:03.820 ⇒ 00:32:04.200 Awaish Kumar: confusing.
313 00:32:04.200 ⇒ 00:32:20.400 Amber Lin: I’ll let them… I’ll let them pick. They’re gonna end up paying similar amounts of money in the end, anyways, but also, we’re gonna burn… they’re gonna burn money if Cameron doesn’t give us all the access, which is not enough.
314 00:32:20.740 ⇒ 00:32:33.889 Amber Lin: All right, great. Decided. We’re meeting tomorrow, so we’ll check on some stuff tomorrow, make sure that document’s ready for them, and then I have pinged Cameron for…
315 00:32:34.180 ⇒ 00:32:37.379 Amber Lin: To access, and then…
316 00:32:38.130 ⇒ 00:32:51.219 Amber Lin: Yeah, so if I feel like you’re a bit more restricted on current… what you currently have, but maybe we can do some investigations on what we know, like Trigger.dev, or, other items, and maybe we can…
317 00:32:51.550 ⇒ 00:32:54.050 Amber Lin: Investigate what those even are.
318 00:32:54.220 ⇒ 00:32:55.699 Amber Lin: Right? It didn’t say…
319 00:32:56.060 ⇒ 00:32:57.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, I want to dive…
320 00:32:58.880 ⇒ 00:33:05.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: That’s the thing that we decided to take out care, technically, like, diving in the trigger dock down. So, do we still want to do it? That kind of stuff.
321 00:33:05.580 ⇒ 00:33:22.550 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think let’s go with the original scope. So, let’s just, ignore what we crossed out here. Even if they say it’s certain, we want to tell Eden, hey, they might be, just fooling you, so… Cool.
322 00:33:22.770 ⇒ 00:33:23.790 Amber Lin: Let’s…
323 00:33:23.790 ⇒ 00:33:37.840 Awaish Kumar: So, like, out of those two options you shared, Amber, I think we should also put the disclaimer that if they increase the time frame instead of a budget.
324 00:33:37.890 ⇒ 00:33:45.910 Awaish Kumar: That means that’s also going to, like, derail the timelines for the migration, data migration.
325 00:33:45.910 ⇒ 00:33:49.570 Amber Lin: Good evening. Oh, valid, okay.
326 00:33:50.460 ⇒ 00:33:54.339 Amber Lin: Yeah, that’s another… that’s another thing that Robert can…
327 00:33:55.460 ⇒ 00:34:00.989 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, but they need to know that, like, that’s what will be the consequences.
328 00:34:01.610 ⇒ 00:34:02.780 Amber Lin: Makes sense.
329 00:34:03.090 ⇒ 00:34:04.619 Amber Lin: So I know there…
330 00:34:04.750 ⇒ 00:34:22.399 Amber Lin: There’s, like, I remember I heard Planiscale and then Trigger.dev is the two things that they said they have quote-unquote decided on. I think it would be nice if we use that as a case study and let Eden know, hey, these two things might be iffy. Do you think that’s something we can do?
331 00:34:24.739 ⇒ 00:34:31.419 Amber Lin: Or worth doing at this stage? Because I don’t know how much else you’re able to do with the limited access you have.
332 00:34:32.170 ⇒ 00:34:40.000 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So again, like, this whole 8 hours was gonna be a comprehensive deep dive into all of the options.
333 00:34:40.370 ⇒ 00:34:41.939 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, I’ll do it.
334 00:34:43.420 ⇒ 00:34:45.010 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: If that’s what we want.
335 00:34:46.179 ⇒ 00:34:47.080 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right?
336 00:34:47.210 ⇒ 00:34:55.699 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because, like, I’ve used Space before, I’ve used Railway Postgres before, I’m using, self-host.
337 00:35:01.110 ⇒ 00:35:07.369 Awaish Kumar: I think we can… like, message Josh, like, to get the right person.
338 00:35:07.750 ⇒ 00:35:12.349 Awaish Kumar: Right now, we don’t know who is leading the REMO project on Eden’s side.
339 00:35:15.270 ⇒ 00:35:19.030 Amber Lin: How does that affect what Surface is gonna do?
340 00:35:19.990 ⇒ 00:35:21.200 Awaish Kumar: Sorry?
341 00:35:21.770 ⇒ 00:35:26.720 Amber Lin: How does… is that a separate thing from what Surf can do for the next two days?
342 00:35:26.720 ⇒ 00:35:32.109 Awaish Kumar: No, no, I mean, we should… like, a lot of different people have left.
343 00:35:32.380 ⇒ 00:35:37.840 Awaish Kumar: Cameron is just a third party. Rayan doesn’t exactly know
344 00:35:38.000 ⇒ 00:35:42.940 Awaish Kumar: what’s going on in the Remo platform. I think we should ask Josh, who is on the…
345 00:35:43.000 ⇒ 00:35:48.079 Amber Lin: Okay. Who’s, who’s leading… Yeah, totally. I can go ask.
346 00:35:48.690 ⇒ 00:35:52.150 Awaish Kumar: Like, who is going to make decisions? Like, if we suggest something.
347 00:35:52.460 ⇒ 00:35:59.590 Awaish Kumar: to whom should we go and share that data? If Surf builds a deliverable, who is the right person to, like, share it with?
348 00:35:59.590 ⇒ 00:36:01.549 Amber Lin: Something that we should add.
349 00:36:02.560 ⇒ 00:36:03.100 Amber Lin: N.
350 00:36:11.500 ⇒ 00:36:12.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Can you ask me?
351 00:36:13.550 ⇒ 00:36:13.910 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
352 00:36:13.910 ⇒ 00:36:15.400 Amber Lin: Yeah, I can hear you.
353 00:36:15.400 ⇒ 00:36:33.260 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, so, like, I’ve used… it’s kind of funny. I’ve used all of those systems, except for PlanetScale already. So I know the trade-offs and that sort of stuff, like AWS Postgres versus Railway Postgres versus Superbase. Like, I’ve used all of those different systems before.
354 00:36:33.370 ⇒ 00:36:52.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Planetscale’s the only one that I have it, but I know about PlanetScale. So, like, my doc was gonna be, like, a comprehensive, here’s what they all are, here’s how you rate them, pros, cons, here’s what you should be doing based on your stipulations, because you’re also, like, a health company, so you need to be HIPAA compliant, that sort of stuff.
355 00:36:52.950 ⇒ 00:36:59.960 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: all that sort of… here’s what the, like, the technical overhead… of…
356 00:37:00.250 ⇒ 00:37:14.559 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: using any of these three, because, again, like, even now, knowing that they don’t really have an engineering team, right, ideally, if you’re a health company, you should be going self-hosted, because you get to control the hardware, but if you don’t have an engineering team.
357 00:37:14.920 ⇒ 00:37:21.050 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: you need, like, a DevOps person to kind of handle that, so then I would kind of move you more to, like, railway.
358 00:37:21.160 ⇒ 00:37:27.850 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, those… that’s what I mean, like, understanding Eden as well helps me with the recommendation.
359 00:37:28.540 ⇒ 00:37:42.290 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. So, like, that’s the thing, it’s like, I don’t want to fly blind, because, like, I’m building it as in mind, like, this is a health organization that needs to be HIPAA compliant, and all this sort of stuff. Here’s how health companies built, because I used to work for a company called Dandy.
360 00:37:42.510 ⇒ 00:37:49.120 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Which is a dental, ERM platform, and, like, we built everything in-house.
361 00:37:49.310 ⇒ 00:37:55.420 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: self-hosted, because, like, we needed to be HIPAA compliant and all those things. But they also had an engineering team of, like, 60 people.
362 00:37:56.130 ⇒ 00:38:03.270 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Versus here, where they might not have an engineering team, but we can still get HIPAA compliant, but we can choose other things.
363 00:38:03.490 ⇒ 00:38:04.180 Amber Lin: Yeah.
364 00:38:04.180 ⇒ 00:38:05.659 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Just that I know that that’s a constraint.
365 00:38:05.660 ⇒ 00:38:17.569 Amber Lin: Yeah, I’m thinking if I was the… if I say I was Josh, I think that would be really helpful. Especially, I think we need to raise what their supposedly current decision
366 00:38:17.760 ⇒ 00:38:37.309 Amber Lin: might have their pros and cons, because they chose it, maybe it was fast, maybe it was cheaper, and whatever, but we need to tell them what the cons are. Yeah, I think that will be great for our meeting on Wednesday, because we’re meeting with them Wednesday morning, or noon-ish, so maybe tomorrow’s stand-up, if we can discuss that, that would be great.
367 00:38:37.310 ⇒ 00:38:43.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So here’s what I’ll do. Then I’ll spend some of the time getting just the database dot together.
368 00:38:43.500 ⇒ 00:38:56.920 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’ll probably like some of the time tonight, getting just, like, so that you guys can see what that looks like, and then we can show it to them, and then we can decide if that’s the level of detail they want on all of the things, and then once that’s decided, then we’ll know
369 00:38:57.540 ⇒ 00:39:06.410 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, alright, if you want this level of detail, it’s gonna be, like, the bigger project, and then we just need to figure out which one of the line items they just don’t want detail.
370 00:39:07.160 ⇒ 00:39:08.519 Amber Lin: Okay. That’ll make it easier.
371 00:39:08.520 ⇒ 00:39:09.100 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, boy.
372 00:39:09.100 ⇒ 00:39:12.570 Amber Lin: Yeah, I’ll ticket it out. How long would that take?
373 00:39:13.260 ⇒ 00:39:17.759 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: To make it comprehensive enough is probably gonna take 4 hours.
374 00:39:18.230 ⇒ 00:39:23.049 Amber Lin: Okay. It’s mostly just, like, how long do you want to spend on it? That’s all.
375 00:39:23.050 ⇒ 00:39:26.800 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, I want it to be… I want this one doc to be comprehensive enough.
376 00:39:27.030 ⇒ 00:39:32.669 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So that we can make a decision on how comprehensive I am, so that if we need to alter the timelines, we can.
377 00:39:33.130 ⇒ 00:39:34.730 Amber Lin: Okay. Okay.
378 00:39:35.380 ⇒ 00:39:35.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool.
379 00:39:36.730 ⇒ 00:39:50.870 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So it won’t be the final version of the doc, because we had 8 hours slated for it, but I already kind of spent one with the database architect that they currently have, so I’ll spend, like, 4 more and just give you, like, the higher-level, deep-down view of, like, the different choices and that sort of stuff, and then we’ll go from there.
380 00:39:51.330 ⇒ 00:39:55.410 Amber Lin: Gotcha, okay. Sounds good. Ticking that out. Thanks.
381 00:39:55.720 ⇒ 00:39:57.169 Amber Lin: That’s all from me.
382 00:39:57.390 ⇒ 00:39:58.440 Amber Lin: Alrighty.
383 00:40:00.050 ⇒ 00:40:01.110 Awaish Kumar: Bye.
384 00:40:01.490 ⇒ 00:40:02.670 Amber Lin: Right, thanks.
385 00:40:03.090 ⇒ 00:40:04.100 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Bye.