Meeting Title: Planning: AI-Default-Interlude-ABC Date: 2025-10-27 Meeting participants: Samuel Roberts, Casie Aviles, Rico Rejoso, Mustafa Raja, Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
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1 00:01:21.740 ⇒ 00:01:26.700 Samuel Roberts: Oh, hey, I didn’t realize… oh, hey, I didn’t realize everyone was here. Not everyone, yeah. Hi, guys.
2 00:01:28.910 ⇒ 00:01:29.789 Mustafa Raja: We know…
3 00:01:30.570 ⇒ 00:01:32.330 Samuel Roberts: Good, how was everyone’s weekend?
4 00:01:33.580 ⇒ 00:01:35.569 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, it was… it was nice.
5 00:01:36.000 ⇒ 00:01:39.049 Mustafa Raja: Spent it with my friends and all.
6 00:01:40.490 ⇒ 00:01:41.290 Samuel Roberts: Nice.
7 00:01:42.660 ⇒ 00:01:43.710 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, how about you?
8 00:01:44.450 ⇒ 00:01:47.299 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, pretty good, pretty good.
9 00:01:47.860 ⇒ 00:01:51.180 Samuel Roberts: Low-key, nothing crazy, so…
10 00:01:51.870 ⇒ 00:01:52.420 Mustafa Raja: Yeah.
11 00:01:54.270 ⇒ 00:01:55.529 Mustafa Raja: How was your busy?
12 00:01:57.350 ⇒ 00:02:03.839 Casie Aviles: Yeah, just, I guess I just, you know, played some games, so I’m wearing…
13 00:02:04.050 ⇒ 00:02:04.820 Mustafa Raja: No.
14 00:02:04.900 ⇒ 00:02:06.260 Samuel Roberts: Nice. Which one?
15 00:02:07.170 ⇒ 00:02:14.350 Casie Aviles: Oh, I actually tried… One game we talked about before, that was Hades, yeah, the sequel.
16 00:02:14.900 ⇒ 00:02:16.960 Samuel Roberts: Oh, nice, the new one? Cool.
17 00:02:17.470 ⇒ 00:02:18.080 Casie Aviles: Yeah.
18 00:02:19.720 ⇒ 00:02:24.439 Casie Aviles: I think it’s sucking too much time from me, so I stopped it for now.
19 00:02:24.750 ⇒ 00:02:29.019 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah. I haven’t picked up the first one in a long time, partly because of that, so…
20 00:02:29.520 ⇒ 00:02:30.180 Casie Aviles: Yeah.
21 00:02:30.600 ⇒ 00:02:36.200 Casie Aviles: I’m gonna take a break from that, or else I’m gonna burn through my weekends.
22 00:03:20.300 ⇒ 00:03:22.300 Casie Aviles: We’re using Langfist now, right?
23 00:03:22.640 ⇒ 00:03:23.360 Casie Aviles: Right.
24 00:03:23.780 ⇒ 00:03:24.860 Casie Aviles: Oh, sorry, yeah.
25 00:03:24.860 ⇒ 00:03:31.089 Robert Tseng: No, no, go ahead. I was just… sorry, I was, like, finishing an email, so I wasn’t really paying attention.
26 00:03:31.350 ⇒ 00:03:37.580 Robert Tseng: Go, yeah, I’m not running this meeting, so you can say what you want.
27 00:03:37.880 ⇒ 00:03:44.349 Casie Aviles: Yeah, I was just asking if we’re going to start using Longviews for prompt management.
28 00:03:47.330 ⇒ 00:03:49.790 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think we’re… go ahead, Mousafa.
29 00:03:50.030 ⇒ 00:03:50.430 Mustafa Raja: Yes.
30 00:03:50.430 ⇒ 00:03:52.050 Samuel Roberts: I was looking at your PR now.
31 00:03:52.520 ⇒ 00:03:59.240 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah, I believe we are going through that. Yeah, we have the observability over the department’s agent now.
32 00:04:01.030 ⇒ 00:04:02.080 Casie Aviles: Okay, nice.
33 00:04:02.360 ⇒ 00:04:03.819 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, in Langfuse.
34 00:04:04.770 ⇒ 00:04:08.180 Mustafa Raja: And I believe I have moved some of the…
35 00:04:08.600 ⇒ 00:04:13.250 Mustafa Raja: prompts, LangFuse, I’ll… I’ll move the rest of them.
36 00:04:13.880 ⇒ 00:04:15.169 Mustafa Raja: Hopefully today.
37 00:04:15.790 ⇒ 00:04:20.049 Samuel Roberts: And so that observability actually will catch everything we start using with Maestro, right?
38 00:04:20.410 ⇒ 00:04:20.850 Mustafa Raja: Yep.
39 00:04:20.850 ⇒ 00:04:22.230 Samuel Roberts: but top level, cool.
40 00:04:22.230 ⇒ 00:04:30.680 Mustafa Raja: For now, it’s only with, what’s it called? The agent that we have created, so we, as we add more agents… Right, right.
41 00:04:30.680 ⇒ 00:04:31.120 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
42 00:04:31.120 ⇒ 00:04:35.790 Mustafa Raja: We’ll have to have those wrapped in this observability thing.
43 00:04:35.790 ⇒ 00:04:40.870 Samuel Roberts: Well, I think it depends if we just use the same Mastra that we… we could add more agents to that as well.
44 00:04:40.870 ⇒ 00:04:42.490 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45 00:04:42.490 ⇒ 00:04:44.580 Samuel Roberts: Depending on how we structure it, but you’re right, you’re absolutely right.
46 00:04:44.580 ⇒ 00:04:45.749 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, that’s correct.
47 00:04:45.840 ⇒ 00:04:46.980 Samuel Roberts: Okay, cool.
48 00:04:48.120 ⇒ 00:04:53.260 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I was just looking through the PR, it looks… I was… has anything come through in LangFuse yet?
49 00:04:53.260 ⇒ 00:05:09.799 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah, so I’ve made some tests. So, Landfuse has two projects right now. One is Interlude Deck Agent, so we have to make sure that we are in Brainforge internal one. I think Interlude Deck Agent is our default one, so if.
50 00:05:09.800 ⇒ 00:05:10.910 Samuel Roberts: Oh, no, okay.
51 00:05:10.910 ⇒ 00:05:11.340 Mustafa Raja: post.
52 00:05:11.340 ⇒ 00:05:12.200 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, okay.
53 00:05:12.200 ⇒ 00:05:20.390 Mustafa Raja: They are going to be in interview decays, so make sure we move to Brain Forge internal, and then if we look at racing.
54 00:05:20.550 ⇒ 00:05:26.960 Mustafa Raja: And then go past 7 days, we will see some… Sessions.
55 00:05:27.160 ⇒ 00:05:37.259 Samuel Roberts: Okay. And at home, we have a really nice dashboard, too. Yes, okay, cool, yep, I’m seeing them there. Alright, great. Yeah, this looks better than what I was seeing before when I was just using Copilot Kit.
56 00:05:38.130 ⇒ 00:05:40.300 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah, this is a lot better.
57 00:05:40.300 ⇒ 00:05:45.430 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, and I was doing CopilotKit, it was logging all kinds of things that weren’t LLM-related, so this looks.
58 00:05:45.430 ⇒ 00:05:46.280 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah.
59 00:05:48.260 ⇒ 00:05:48.980 Samuel Roberts: Excellent.
60 00:05:52.600 ⇒ 00:05:53.360 Uttam Kumaran: Hey guys.
61 00:05:54.100 ⇒ 00:05:54.710 Samuel Roberts: Morning.
62 00:05:54.710 ⇒ 00:05:55.460 Mustafa Raja: Hmm.
63 00:05:57.570 ⇒ 00:05:59.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay…
64 00:06:03.300 ⇒ 00:06:06.149 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so I wanted to do…
65 00:06:06.750 ⇒ 00:06:10.460 Uttam Kumaran: A couple of… a little bit of a different…
66 00:06:11.500 ⇒ 00:06:17.229 Uttam Kumaran: conversation today, I just kind of wanted to go through a little exercise, and then we can talk about
67 00:06:17.470 ⇒ 00:06:23.119 Uttam Kumaran: This week, although my camera… look, my camera looks so horrible. That’s the deal right now?
68 00:06:24.180 ⇒ 00:06:26.379 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, maybe it’s my screen, I don’t know.
69 00:06:26.380 ⇒ 00:06:28.089 Samuel Roberts: Oh, is it a different Ken? Yeah.
70 00:06:28.550 ⇒ 00:06:34.799 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so… I think I did some, you know, thinking on…
71 00:06:35.300 ⇒ 00:06:38.030 Uttam Kumaran: Sunday, and was just sort of thinking about…
72 00:06:38.170 ⇒ 00:06:44.139 Uttam Kumaran: progress so far on the AI team over the past few weeks. I think we’ve done a good job in a couple places.
73 00:06:44.260 ⇒ 00:06:50.989 Uttam Kumaran: and then still struggled in a few other areas. So, one thing that I wanted to just…
74 00:06:51.630 ⇒ 00:06:59.290 Uttam Kumaran: maybe even start with, and let me go get my notebook, but I wanted to start,
75 00:07:00.870 ⇒ 00:07:11.560 Uttam Kumaran: sort of thinking about the AI team’s week with, like, having very clear, like, objective for the week, and almost thinking of, like, an end-to-end product sprint.
76 00:07:11.640 ⇒ 00:07:22.250 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’ve done a pretty good job at, like, getting into the rhythm of shipping things, but I still think that in the manufacturing sort of pipeline, from idea all the way to…
77 00:07:22.640 ⇒ 00:07:26.050 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the end customer, which…
78 00:07:26.200 ⇒ 00:07:32.340 Uttam Kumaran: again, right now is really primarily the sales and the project management team. There is a gap.
79 00:07:32.520 ⇒ 00:07:37.280 Uttam Kumaran: And so I think, like, we can have a discussion today a little bit about That…
80 00:07:37.400 ⇒ 00:07:41.349 Uttam Kumaran: And then we can sort of plan a little bit of default towards the end.
81 00:07:41.490 ⇒ 00:07:44.649 Uttam Kumaran: But let me… give me one sec, I’m just gonna grab my notebook.
82 00:08:04.950 ⇒ 00:08:05.670 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
83 00:08:09.340 ⇒ 00:08:15.019 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool, so I’m just gonna pull up FigJam, and this is gonna be a little bit of, like.
84 00:08:15.310 ⇒ 00:08:19.600 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of a little bit of a live, retro…
85 00:08:20.400 ⇒ 00:08:26.179 Uttam Kumaran: of how things are going, and then really what I’m looking for from the AI team is…
86 00:08:26.670 ⇒ 00:08:29.640 Uttam Kumaran: Just comments on, like, what you guys think about this.
87 00:08:30.060 ⇒ 00:08:34.429 Uttam Kumaran: So let me… Go ahead and get to the…
88 00:08:51.420 ⇒ 00:08:52.220 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
89 00:08:53.210 ⇒ 00:09:05.110 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m gonna start another one called… Let’s just call it… Process.
90 00:09:05.520 ⇒ 00:09:06.280 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
91 00:09:06.460 ⇒ 00:09:14.370 Uttam Kumaran: So, a couple things that, you know, were kind of stuck on my mind… This week was…
92 00:09:14.710 ⇒ 00:09:20.470 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, reflecting on the last 3 weeks, we’ve made a lot of progress on the…
93 00:09:21.130 ⇒ 00:09:26.990 Uttam Kumaran: sort of back end of things, and, like, maybe one thing I’ll do here as I talk, I’ll just write some of this stuff down.
94 00:09:32.970 ⇒ 00:09:37.850 Uttam Kumaran: So if I was to do good… Okay… Bad.
95 00:09:38.660 ⇒ 00:09:50.010 Uttam Kumaran: If we talk about good, I think we’ve done a… Good job at getting, like, master setup…
96 00:09:50.510 ⇒ 00:09:54.180 Uttam Kumaran: We have, like, agents.md set up.
97 00:09:54.630 ⇒ 00:09:59.159 Uttam Kumaran: And again, I’m thinking over the last… let’s say I’m thinking over the last, like, month or so.
98 00:09:59.340 ⇒ 00:10:07.200 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve shipped… A few quality of life features…
99 00:10:09.140 ⇒ 00:10:11.350 Uttam Kumaran: What else can we put under…
100 00:10:12.160 ⇒ 00:10:14.950 Uttam Kumaran: Like, good, and we’re just considering, like, internal work.
101 00:10:15.380 ⇒ 00:10:21.129 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, the, the marketing assets page is revamped.
102 00:10:21.500 ⇒ 00:10:24.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I would put that under quality of life.
103 00:10:24.100 ⇒ 00:10:24.740 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
104 00:10:27.490 ⇒ 00:10:32.820 Uttam Kumaran: I guess the other good thing is, like, we’ve basically, like, Sort of, like, maintained.
105 00:10:33.250 ⇒ 00:10:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: like… the system, like, in terms of just, like, DevOps and stuff like that?
106 00:10:38.750 ⇒ 00:10:40.419 Samuel Roberts: I think we feel better there.
107 00:10:42.660 ⇒ 00:10:46.289 Uttam Kumaran: if I was to say a couple things, and this is where, like, again, maybe…
108 00:10:46.940 ⇒ 00:11:01.309 Uttam Kumaran: I can go first, but I don’t want this to be a me talking meeting. On a couple things on where, if I was to think about… like, let’s say I was head of AI here, and I was to fire myself, and I was to think a little bit about
109 00:11:01.660 ⇒ 00:11:06.959 Uttam Kumaran: why… what went wrong. I think one is we purely didn’t…
110 00:11:07.040 ⇒ 00:11:23.519 Uttam Kumaran: like, still usage by the core stakeholders is not high, by core stakeholders, which is, like, me, Amber, Rico, like, Robert, salespeople, are not… it’s okay.
111 00:11:23.820 ⇒ 00:11:25.420 Uttam Kumaran: Has not changed.
112 00:11:26.400 ⇒ 00:11:31.989 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, a lot of the features we shipped 2 months ago are the ones that are really still high in use.
113 00:11:32.470 ⇒ 00:11:35.720 Uttam Kumaran: Second is, I think in the last…
114 00:11:35.930 ⇒ 00:11:39.220 Uttam Kumaran: like, 2 weeks ago, right, I made a big push to ship a bunch of
115 00:11:39.430 ⇒ 00:11:46.690 Uttam Kumaran: features, and I think that was effective, but I feel like I was, like, I was the only one that gets a lot of stuff out that week.
116 00:11:46.830 ⇒ 00:11:48.850 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I think…
117 00:11:54.040 ⇒ 00:12:00.919 Uttam Kumaran: that’s an issue, right? Because… and we’ll kind of talk about, I think, the manufacturing cycle, but I think that is an issue.
118 00:12:01.590 ⇒ 00:12:09.290 Uttam Kumaran: Where… The core usage and the features that our clients are asking for Have not been affected.
119 00:12:09.780 ⇒ 00:12:21.290 Uttam Kumaran: I think the other thing is, like, we’ve… I think we’ve… the team overall, and this is, again, like, where I’m gonna ask, is I feel like I’m still probably…
120 00:12:21.660 ⇒ 00:12:33.789 Uttam Kumaran: And for me, if I… I’m biasing towards getting new features out and having them used, and I still feel like I’m probably the only person who has
121 00:12:33.930 ⇒ 00:12:38.620 Uttam Kumaran: like… An understanding of our customer and, like, what they need.
122 00:12:38.760 ⇒ 00:12:40.820 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s a huge problem.
123 00:12:41.000 ⇒ 00:12:52.790 Uttam Kumaran: And I think that is, like, a totally solvable problem, but I still feel like the whole team, and again, it’s just you guys, right? Mustafa, Casey, Sam.
124 00:12:52.940 ⇒ 00:12:57.350 Uttam Kumaran: Still… It either… you guys have the understanding of, like.
125 00:12:58.510 ⇒ 00:13:09.079 Uttam Kumaran: the core processes in the company, and then we just don’t have a path towards turning that into, like, how does that make it into the platform? Or there’s still, like, a core lack of understanding of
126 00:13:09.970 ⇒ 00:13:11.619 Uttam Kumaran: What are the…
127 00:13:11.920 ⇒ 00:13:21.320 Uttam Kumaran: daily processes ranked and priority that we need to affect as a team. And, like, I guess I’ll probably put that as an open thought, and want to hear your guys’ opinion.
128 00:13:25.210 ⇒ 00:13:37.960 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think it’s a combination of both of those. I think there’s some things that I… at least I speak for myself, I don’t necessarily speak for Casey Mustafa, where their understanding is, but I have a decent sense of that, but I think the, like, specific…
129 00:13:38.240 ⇒ 00:13:56.209 Samuel Roberts: you know, even working on that marketing page, it was like, I have a pretty good sense, but then you would be like, oh, well, this is how I would use this way, and this is how… and Hannah would say the same thing, and there’s specific things that, like, overall, I get a pretty good sense of, like, why it’s important, and how it’s… and maybe not the nitty-gritty of how it might be used, but…
130 00:13:56.350 ⇒ 00:13:59.030 Samuel Roberts: That’s… I’m still, yeah, I think…
131 00:13:59.210 ⇒ 00:14:03.900 Samuel Roberts: in a better place than I was, obviously, beforehand, but there’s still more for me to learn there.
132 00:14:04.070 ⇒ 00:14:04.770 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
133 00:14:05.950 ⇒ 00:14:12.970 Samuel Roberts: Or are you making assumptions about my own way I might do it, and I’m not the client in this case, you know what I mean? So I think that’s… that’s a problem, too.
134 00:14:13.760 ⇒ 00:14:15.730 Uttam Kumaran: What do you guys think, Mustafa, Casey?
135 00:14:22.480 ⇒ 00:14:31.069 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, yeah, I think I have a… I have a good understanding of, core processes.
136 00:14:33.830 ⇒ 00:14:34.770 Mustafa Raja: Yeah.
137 00:14:36.790 ⇒ 00:14:50.809 Uttam Kumaran: I guess here’s, like, a good example, right? And this example will sort of last throughout this meeting. Let’s say… right now, running stand-ups is complicated and difficult, right? And let’s say we were to just start with that.
138 00:14:52.420 ⇒ 00:14:56.020 Uttam Kumaran: I guess my question would be, what is… what is the…
139 00:14:56.540 ⇒ 00:15:00.460 Uttam Kumaran: I guess my… let’s just even start there. Is everybody aware of that?
140 00:15:02.520 ⇒ 00:15:03.849 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s just start there.
141 00:15:04.740 ⇒ 00:15:14.870 Samuel Roberts: I… I have a pretty good… I mean, I’ve heard you express that. I don’t necessarily understand what it takes to do that, so that might be a good starting point of, like, what would be most useful
142 00:15:16.230 ⇒ 00:15:16.820 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
143 00:15:16.970 ⇒ 00:15:20.929 Samuel Roberts: On a, like… specifically for a stand-up, yes, I think that’s a good one.
144 00:15:21.470 ⇒ 00:15:28.510 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess that’s just where I want to start, is kind of, like, talking through. So we have, like, basically, like, the problem.
145 00:15:29.670 ⇒ 00:15:35.030 Uttam Kumaran: And even before that, you almost have, like, the function, right? Like, function of the team.
146 00:15:35.500 ⇒ 00:15:39.260 Uttam Kumaran: So… I think this is where…
147 00:15:39.400 ⇒ 00:15:44.800 Uttam Kumaran: I think we can start to take an example of, like, This is PM.
148 00:15:44.900 ⇒ 00:15:48.949 Uttam Kumaran: And the problem is, stand-ups are difficult.
149 00:15:49.740 ⇒ 00:15:50.690 Uttam Kumaran: to run.
150 00:15:50.820 ⇒ 00:15:51.580 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
151 00:15:52.060 ⇒ 00:15:54.080 Uttam Kumaran: So, I guess at this point.
152 00:15:55.910 ⇒ 00:16:02.449 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think this is where… and so let’s… let’s continue walking through this example. So I think I agree in that
153 00:16:02.850 ⇒ 00:16:11.359 Uttam Kumaran: part of this is a little bit of a rhetorical question, but you guys are in every meeting, you work with me every day, you work with everybody every day. You know…
154 00:16:11.560 ⇒ 00:16:13.949 Uttam Kumaran: A lot about how this company runs.
155 00:16:14.100 ⇒ 00:16:16.760 Uttam Kumaran: If you feel like you’re not confident.
156 00:16:17.070 ⇒ 00:16:19.960 Uttam Kumaran: I think I would push back and say.
157 00:16:20.460 ⇒ 00:16:24.130 Uttam Kumaran: It’s probably not much more complicated than you think it is.
158 00:16:24.360 ⇒ 00:16:31.530 Uttam Kumaran: And so, the actual problem here is, I think, that that confidence.
159 00:16:31.970 ⇒ 00:16:38.159 Uttam Kumaran: Because there are too many questions getting asked about how we do things versus
160 00:16:38.390 ⇒ 00:16:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: like, let’s get something that attacks the problem, and then iterate from there, right? Like, the marketing assets thing.
161 00:16:46.210 ⇒ 00:16:57.059 Uttam Kumaran: all it is is a simple content management list of, like, we have this content, right? And so, the problem what you’re gonna have is the client that is me and Hannah.
162 00:16:58.550 ⇒ 00:17:04.160 Uttam Kumaran: If you want us to get opinionated about the design and what it looks like.
163 00:17:04.270 ⇒ 00:17:07.149 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna ship something that you guys can’t own.
164 00:17:07.740 ⇒ 00:17:15.729 Uttam Kumaran: you’re gonna ship something that the client asks for, and then the team just executes. There’s no, like, love, there’s no ownership over, there’s no, like.
165 00:17:16.160 ⇒ 00:17:31.950 Uttam Kumaran: I… okay, I found this problem, I found someone sitting here who has a lot of issues. I’ve talked to them and said, what is your number one issue? I’ve built them something, I’ve iterated on it, now it’s mine. Instead, the process right now is.
166 00:17:32.770 ⇒ 00:17:35.780 Uttam Kumaran: me or someone is like, I have a problem.
167 00:17:35.880 ⇒ 00:17:43.880 Uttam Kumaran: I think we should solve it this way. Here are the tickets, go solve it. And then what happens? It doesn’t end up perfect, and then…
168 00:17:44.210 ⇒ 00:17:48.380 Uttam Kumaran: Because you guys didn’t have a clear understanding of the core problem, you can’t iterate.
169 00:17:48.560 ⇒ 00:18:00.050 Uttam Kumaran: make the small iteration to make it perfect, you don’t feel like the user, and I think that’s, like, a huge problem right now. And I feel like we’re sitting on a ton of opportunity
170 00:18:00.160 ⇒ 00:18:02.569 Uttam Kumaran: For the three of y’all to effect
171 00:18:02.670 ⇒ 00:18:08.700 Uttam Kumaran: Really core process in the company, but there’s still, like… some gap.
172 00:18:09.130 ⇒ 00:18:13.570 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s what I kind of, like, want to talk through today, is that.
173 00:18:13.570 ⇒ 00:18:14.180 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
174 00:18:14.180 ⇒ 00:18:18.339 Uttam Kumaran: I think… I think for Casey and Mustafa, you guys have…
175 00:18:18.950 ⇒ 00:18:27.280 Uttam Kumaran: you have, like, the… I would say the, like, engineering workforce, like, really, like, the horsepower to just execute tickets.
176 00:18:28.280 ⇒ 00:18:36.279 Uttam Kumaran: Still, I think you guys need to emerge one step higher, and start to look at the platform as, like, your work.
177 00:18:36.560 ⇒ 00:18:45.479 Uttam Kumaran: If people are not using it, or if people who should be using it aren’t using it, or it’s not working for the people that are trying to use it, that is your problem.
178 00:18:45.960 ⇒ 00:18:50.880 Uttam Kumaran: That is not my problem, that is not the user’s problem, right? That is your problem, and that is your fault.
179 00:18:51.130 ⇒ 00:18:57.260 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to say fault as, like, it is up to you to take ownership of that, and to say.
180 00:18:57.390 ⇒ 00:19:00.479 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I shipped something half-baked.
181 00:19:00.700 ⇒ 00:19:11.170 Uttam Kumaran: And that could be… that could literally be because I just said, ship this one thing. That could be because we randomly did something, but still, like, the ownership has to come from… from y’all.
182 00:19:11.290 ⇒ 00:19:20.900 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so, that is one thing that I want to really talk about today. The second thing is, I think because there are so many problems.
183 00:19:21.210 ⇒ 00:19:29.729 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And there’s so many things going on, even in our small company. It is challenging for this team to, like, just go after one.
184 00:19:29.920 ⇒ 00:19:35.729 Uttam Kumaran: And what we’re doing is going after the things that we all like to do, which is, like.
185 00:19:36.190 ⇒ 00:19:38.830 Uttam Kumaran: Core engineering info work, which is great.
186 00:19:39.060 ⇒ 00:19:46.030 Uttam Kumaran: By this… this… none of this yet has moved the needle for clients, except for this.
187 00:19:46.880 ⇒ 00:19:48.900 Uttam Kumaran: And this is something that I did.
188 00:19:49.140 ⇒ 00:19:54.539 Uttam Kumaran: in just, like, 2 hours, one night, two weeks ago, right? And so that is not great.
189 00:19:54.760 ⇒ 00:20:00.069 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think… So that… so I kind of want to set the stage there.
190 00:20:01.100 ⇒ 00:20:05.780 Uttam Kumaran: Does anyone have any thoughts or comments? And again, I just want to preface, this is not like a…
191 00:20:06.520 ⇒ 00:20:10.649 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s not like a blame game situation, but again, I’m thinking about it, like.
192 00:20:11.630 ⇒ 00:20:15.759 Uttam Kumaran: as the AI team, where did we go wrong?
193 00:20:16.460 ⇒ 00:20:18.740 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, how do we correct for the next…
194 00:20:19.900 ⇒ 00:20:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: Coming up into the end of the quarter, so that we really, like, affect the lives of the people that are using the platform every day.
195 00:20:29.080 ⇒ 00:20:30.150 Samuel Roberts: Yeah,
196 00:20:30.600 ⇒ 00:20:35.100 Samuel Roberts: I understand everything you’re just saying, I’m not… I don’t want to be defensive about it. I would push back a little.
197 00:20:35.100 ⇒ 00:20:37.360 Uttam Kumaran: You could be, you could be defensive, I don’t mind.
198 00:20:37.360 ⇒ 00:20:38.389 Samuel Roberts: come off as defensive, I just want.
199 00:20:38.390 ⇒ 00:20:39.610 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, no, yeah, yeah.
200 00:20:39.610 ⇒ 00:20:51.940 Samuel Roberts: push back on the marketing page, because I think that was something that went kind of the way you described, where I understood the problem Hannah was having. Hannah and I had a few discussions about it, so I understood what she was trying to do with it.
201 00:20:52.050 ⇒ 00:21:03.759 Samuel Roberts: you know, she didn’t ticket anything out. I figured out, like, okay, we need to add the metadata, we need to add this, we need to add that, we need to change the UI. Like, I feel like I did kind of own that all the way through and feel a little bit of that for that.
202 00:21:04.360 ⇒ 00:21:22.679 Samuel Roberts: you know, that also sets up other things that are coming, like moving it to upload to there. There’s a few other things from there that are, you know, ongoing, but I feel like that was one where I feel like the process actually almost worked. It wasn’t perfect, obviously, but that one was one where I feel like I understood what she needed, what…
203 00:21:22.800 ⇒ 00:21:29.049 Samuel Roberts: you know, what wasn’t working, because it was just a V1 of, like, mapping to GitHub stuff.
204 00:21:29.050 ⇒ 00:21:29.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
205 00:21:29.640 ⇒ 00:21:32.390 Samuel Roberts: And so I felt like that actually was one of the ones where I…
206 00:21:32.880 ⇒ 00:21:43.729 Samuel Roberts: have a better sense of, like, what it was used for, how it’s used, like, all the metadata that was added that, like, is gonna be more helpful for organizing and everything. Like, I have a better sense of that, which I certainly did not have beforehand.
207 00:21:44.450 ⇒ 00:21:49.909 Uttam Kumaran: I, yeah, I… I think that one, I guess, to meet you halfway, I think that was closer.
208 00:21:49.910 ⇒ 00:21:51.110 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
209 00:21:51.510 ⇒ 00:21:56.949 Uttam Kumaran: But I think to… I think, one, you walked into an existing setup.
210 00:21:57.110 ⇒ 00:21:58.270 Samuel Roberts: 100%, yeah.
211 00:21:58.550 ⇒ 00:22:00.769 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s, I think, one…
212 00:22:01.180 ⇒ 00:22:14.099 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a little bit of, like, okay, we met half court. And then second is, I still think some of the follow-up items on marketing page we did get done. And again, it’s not a you, I think we… this is… this comes to my second point, which is.
213 00:22:14.770 ⇒ 00:22:22.539 Uttam Kumaran: there’s just too much. There’s too much going on. And so, I think instead of closing out everything related to the marketing page.
214 00:22:22.890 ⇒ 00:22:28.369 Uttam Kumaran: We got, like, 80% there, there’s still a couple things, we left it, and as you guys know, it’ll…
215 00:22:28.470 ⇒ 00:22:30.299 Uttam Kumaran: Sit in the backlog for a while.
216 00:22:30.430 ⇒ 00:22:36.029 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s also something I was thinking about, which is like, okay, how do we… we need to attack both of those problems, right?
217 00:22:38.600 ⇒ 00:22:48.950 Uttam Kumaran: But I hear you. I mean, I think it was better. I think I was really happy because I saw you, Sam, working directly with Hannah, and no… and not as much as me.
218 00:22:48.950 ⇒ 00:22:50.630 Samuel Roberts: Which is great.
219 00:22:50.630 ⇒ 00:22:54.410 Uttam Kumaran: I still think that what we missed is a little bit of, like.
220 00:22:54.720 ⇒ 00:23:01.430 Uttam Kumaran: okay, let’s watch the user use it. We could have caught the filter thing, we could have caught probably one or two other things, shipped it.
221 00:23:01.600 ⇒ 00:23:07.879 Uttam Kumaran: probably, like, just in the next, like, couple hours after, like, watching Hannah use it or me use it, and then…
222 00:23:07.880 ⇒ 00:23:08.520 Samuel Roberts: N.
223 00:23:08.930 ⇒ 00:23:13.870 Uttam Kumaran: it would have been, like, good for at least another, like, 2-3 months, right? Like, that entire feature.
224 00:23:13.870 ⇒ 00:23:14.440 Samuel Roberts: Sure, really.
225 00:23:14.440 ⇒ 00:23:16.880 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, that’s the thing that I think was…
226 00:23:17.260 ⇒ 00:23:20.770 Uttam Kumaran: lacking, and we didn’t talk about it as a team. That’s what we didn’t do, right? So…
227 00:23:20.770 ⇒ 00:23:21.190 Samuel Roberts: That’s.
228 00:23:21.190 ⇒ 00:23:25.640 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s something. I guess…
229 00:23:26.070 ⇒ 00:23:39.450 Uttam Kumaran: I guess Mustafa and Casey, like, what do you think about my point about, like, ownership over the platform? Or, like, I want to kind of… I need to kind of hear from you guys, because it’s, again, it’s just the four of us working on the whole platform, right? And it’s mainly…
230 00:23:39.640 ⇒ 00:23:41.970 Uttam Kumaran: Q3. So, what do you guys think?
231 00:23:42.710 ⇒ 00:23:49.010 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, I agree with it. I worked on the linear tickets agent thing.
232 00:23:49.070 ⇒ 00:23:58.570 Mustafa Raja: And, I didn’t, as part of the process, I didn’t, ask the stakeholders that would use it.
233 00:23:58.570 ⇒ 00:24:09.660 Mustafa Raja: How would they want the format of the output to be, and things like that. And that is what the, agent is struggling with.
234 00:24:09.900 ⇒ 00:24:17.430 Mustafa Raja: So yeah, I agree. I agree, we need to… we need to be involved a little bit more, than just looking into the tickets.
235 00:24:18.530 ⇒ 00:24:21.739 Casie Aviles: Yeah, personally, yeah, I agree as well.
236 00:24:23.080 ⇒ 00:24:30.519 Casie Aviles: there’s just a tendency… I mean, from my pers… from my perspective, there’s, like, a tendency to lose track of, like.
237 00:24:31.390 ⇒ 00:24:37.059 Casie Aviles: what else we should be doing for, you know, for the adoption. I know that’s been a…
238 00:24:37.860 ⇒ 00:24:44.790 Casie Aviles: It’s a long… it’s been a while that that problem for the, you know, regarding the platform.
239 00:24:45.080 ⇒ 00:24:49.659 Casie Aviles: There’s just a tendency for me to also get caught up and just, you know.
240 00:24:49.900 ⇒ 00:24:52.469 Casie Aviles: Being done with the tickets that are there.
241 00:24:53.530 ⇒ 00:24:59.829 Casie Aviles: Maybe… yeah, maybe something that would help is to have, like, you know, as a team, we could talk about
242 00:25:00.610 ⇒ 00:25:07.040 Casie Aviles: the platform, how it’s doing. I believe we have, like… we’re tracking usage already, I believe.
243 00:25:07.320 ⇒ 00:25:11.039 Casie Aviles: So, we haven’t really been looking into that as a team, so…
244 00:25:11.190 ⇒ 00:25:13.349 Casie Aviles: That’s probably something we should do.
245 00:25:15.450 ⇒ 00:25:19.500 Uttam Kumaran: I agree. I mean, I think you both… so, so one, I just want to pause there.
246 00:25:19.500 ⇒ 00:25:24.210 Samuel Roberts: It’s clear everybody knows what I’m trying to say. It’s clear everybody also.
247 00:25:24.470 ⇒ 00:25:34.999 Uttam Kumaran: is totally capable of solving the problem. So, the first thing I want to get over, and this one I… we didn’t need to say aloud, but we’re all capable of solving this. It would be a different problem if…
248 00:25:35.130 ⇒ 00:25:37.310 Uttam Kumaran: One of us on the team was, like.
249 00:25:37.520 ⇒ 00:25:44.470 Uttam Kumaran: could not even do this, right? So that’s not the problem. And I also… the reason why I’m bringing this up is because I know you guys can do all this.
250 00:25:44.640 ⇒ 00:25:52.640 Uttam Kumaran: have an ownership mentality, and I think what I want to isolate is, in what ways have I, sort of.
251 00:25:52.890 ⇒ 00:25:57.160 Uttam Kumaran: fuck that up. Like, have I put on too much work, or have I…
252 00:25:59.320 ⇒ 00:26:02.109 Uttam Kumaran: Second is, I just want to…
253 00:26:02.310 ⇒ 00:26:05.309 Uttam Kumaran: Be even more explicit with the expectations.
254 00:26:05.510 ⇒ 00:26:20.869 Uttam Kumaran: And so there’s two things, right? So, the first item is, like, what I could do from a PM side, which is, like, okay, I should really isolate the goals, and as the project manager, somewhat, right, or at least the client, I should be really clear with what we need.
255 00:26:21.120 ⇒ 00:26:23.699 Uttam Kumaran: Second, though, is,
256 00:26:24.450 ⇒ 00:26:32.939 Uttam Kumaran: really having the ownership over what gets done and seeing it through end-to-end is something that I’m gonna push on you guys to do.
257 00:26:33.270 ⇒ 00:26:36.480 Uttam Kumaran: And I think it’s something that I’ve…
258 00:26:36.830 ⇒ 00:26:42.550 Uttam Kumaran: I did… I think I got us to… we now have a platform, we have these core features.
259 00:26:42.690 ⇒ 00:26:46.580 Uttam Kumaran: But I have a kind of a little bit of an idea of, like, what’s coming next.
260 00:26:46.790 ⇒ 00:26:58.170 Uttam Kumaran: But what… and we’ll kind of walk through this entire manufacturing cycle. What I can’t help with, though, is a lot of the core execution, because we’re extremely time-constrained.
261 00:26:58.560 ⇒ 00:27:04.269 Uttam Kumaran: And so where I’m gonna need everybody to kind of step up is into, like, higher…
262 00:27:04.520 ⇒ 00:27:11.060 Uttam Kumaran: earlier into the manufacturing cycle, and that’s sort of, like, where I wanna… Kinda, like, have…
263 00:27:11.850 ⇒ 00:27:15.200 Uttam Kumaran: The conversation sort of start today.
264 00:27:15.570 ⇒ 00:27:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: And so one thing I’m gonna do here is, what you’re seeing here is you’re just seeing, like.
265 00:27:21.580 ⇒ 00:27:24.540 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of like the entire… cycle.
266 00:27:24.730 ⇒ 00:27:30.990 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And one thing I’m gonna do even further here is I’m gonna do… B1…
267 00:27:31.390 ⇒ 00:27:38.060 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna do MVP, right? And let’s even consider a couple things. So one is, like, I would say…
268 00:27:38.310 ⇒ 00:27:44.009 Uttam Kumaran: These are all… like… This is, like, one section.
269 00:27:46.920 ⇒ 00:27:52.760 Uttam Kumaran: Right. This is discovery, goal, This is, like…
270 00:27:53.370 ⇒ 00:28:02.259 Uttam Kumaran: sort of all in, like, the discovery world. You have architecture, solution, tickets, this is all, like, I would say solution architect.
271 00:28:02.260 ⇒ 00:28:03.470 Samuel Roberts: World.
272 00:28:03.470 ⇒ 00:28:06.649 Uttam Kumaran: You have design, engineering, review.
273 00:28:06.770 ⇒ 00:28:13.600 Uttam Kumaran: proof of concept, this is all, like, the core building world, and then you have the MVP, which is…
274 00:28:13.710 ⇒ 00:28:18.679 Uttam Kumaran: One more step, and then you have, like, this guy, right? V1.
275 00:28:19.560 ⇒ 00:28:27.070 Uttam Kumaran: So, one thing I’m gonna… I wanna do here is honestly just put, like, if I was to put, let’s see…
276 00:28:34.130 ⇒ 00:28:40.109 Uttam Kumaran: I was to put each of our names, and I… again, I just want to show… this is how I think about
277 00:28:40.300 ⇒ 00:28:41.140 Uttam Kumaran: this.
278 00:28:41.550 ⇒ 00:28:48.660 Uttam Kumaran: And then we can walk through, like, a couple examples, right? So you have me, you have Sam.
279 00:28:49.840 ⇒ 00:28:57.150 Uttam Kumaran: You have, Casey… And you have stuff, right?
280 00:28:57.300 ⇒ 00:29:02.489 Uttam Kumaran: So, If we talk about what the situ- what it’s been like to date.
281 00:29:02.910 ⇒ 00:29:07.890 Uttam Kumaran: I would say I almost am, like… Here…
282 00:29:08.270 ⇒ 00:29:11.210 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Sam, you’re also, like…
283 00:29:11.470 ⇒ 00:29:15.580 Uttam Kumaran: here. I mean, we’re both playing in this area.
284 00:29:15.580 ⇒ 00:29:16.340 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.
285 00:29:16.340 ⇒ 00:29:20.549 Uttam Kumaran: I think Mustafa and Casey are purely here.
286 00:29:21.100 ⇒ 00:29:25.770 Uttam Kumaran: And I… and then I think there’s, like…
287 00:29:26.270 ⇒ 00:29:31.940 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I wanna do even one more thing, which is, like, Nobody is…
288 00:29:31.940 ⇒ 00:29:32.570 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
289 00:29:33.330 ⇒ 00:29:34.889 Uttam Kumaran: Nobody is here.
290 00:29:36.550 ⇒ 00:29:40.080 Uttam Kumaran: Right. Or, I’m again, like, down here somewhere. Yeah.
291 00:29:40.350 ⇒ 00:29:44.459 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Right? And then I also wanted to say that, like.
292 00:29:44.870 ⇒ 00:29:49.950 Uttam Kumaran: there’s nobody above this, like, I’m also up here somewhere.
293 00:29:50.700 ⇒ 00:29:57.400 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, and so what you’re seeing is, one, you’re seeing that… so, I guess, like, maybe let’s… let’s…
294 00:29:57.880 ⇒ 00:30:03.589 Uttam Kumaran: In an effort to not… talk the whole meeting, maybe Casey, tell me, like, what’s wrong?
295 00:30:03.770 ⇒ 00:30:05.900 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like, what do you notice that’s wrong?
296 00:30:09.020 ⇒ 00:30:12.120 Casie Aviles: Hmm… It should be very, like…
297 00:30:12.120 ⇒ 00:30:13.330 Uttam Kumaran: Very basic.
298 00:30:15.270 ⇒ 00:30:17.529 Casie Aviles: Yeah, I might be overthinking, but…
299 00:30:18.550 ⇒ 00:30:22.879 Casie Aviles: I would say that there should be someone…
300 00:30:23.800 ⇒ 00:30:28.280 Casie Aviles: Last, nobody stage. There should be people there, I guess.
301 00:30:30.820 ⇒ 00:30:39.290 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly. So, past the nobody stage, It’s just… Me. Right?
302 00:30:40.790 ⇒ 00:30:43.720 Uttam Kumaran: Huge issue. I think to double down on that.
303 00:30:44.500 ⇒ 00:30:47.959 Uttam Kumaran: the fact that I’m even on this board is an issue.
304 00:30:48.390 ⇒ 00:30:51.599 Uttam Kumaran: Right, and the reason why I want to say that is…
305 00:30:51.900 ⇒ 00:30:54.800 Uttam Kumaran: The goal of our teams should…
306 00:30:55.380 ⇒ 00:31:02.190 Uttam Kumaran: as we’re trying to scale the business without Robert and I’s, like, everyday involvement.
307 00:31:02.800 ⇒ 00:31:06.260 Uttam Kumaran: The goal should actually be that I am not on this board.
308 00:31:06.610 ⇒ 00:31:09.569 Uttam Kumaran: And that is the goal that I want to strive towards.
309 00:31:09.780 ⇒ 00:31:12.109 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ll… we could talk through how we get there.
310 00:31:12.250 ⇒ 00:31:14.750 Uttam Kumaran: But the other problem is, is…
311 00:31:15.590 ⇒ 00:31:18.550 Uttam Kumaran: is everywhere on the board, right?
312 00:31:20.370 ⇒ 00:31:24.260 Uttam Kumaran: Which means this team is not self-sufficient. It is not…
313 00:31:24.490 ⇒ 00:31:28.970 Uttam Kumaran: We… the team does not self-drive and self-accomplish, right?
314 00:31:29.340 ⇒ 00:31:37.809 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I don’t want to start… I don’t want to get to the solutions, but I just wanted for all of us to agree on what the problem is. Anything else?
315 00:31:38.040 ⇒ 00:31:39.680 Uttam Kumaran: That anyone, like, sees.
316 00:31:47.190 ⇒ 00:31:53.709 Samuel Roberts: I mean, those two cover, like, quite a bit, but I think the fact that, like, you’re kind of floating at the top, but there’s not necessarily, like, more…
317 00:31:54.180 ⇒ 00:31:54.770 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly.
318 00:31:54.770 ⇒ 00:31:55.469 Samuel Roberts: in general.
319 00:31:55.470 ⇒ 00:31:55.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
320 00:31:55.870 ⇒ 00:32:00.110 Samuel Roberts: Obviously, past nobody is one thing, but just the beginning especially, I think, is…
321 00:32:00.110 ⇒ 00:32:04.799 Uttam Kumaran: I think I’ll even round your thought out, is there’s not other people at the top.
322 00:32:04.800 ⇒ 00:32:06.630 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, that’s what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
323 00:32:06.630 ⇒ 00:32:10.750 Uttam Kumaran: So, missing people at the top section.
324 00:32:11.300 ⇒ 00:32:12.100 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
325 00:32:12.260 ⇒ 00:32:20.380 Uttam Kumaran: And I guess we can call this, like, section… let’s just say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. We’re missing people at 1 and 2, right?
326 00:32:21.090 ⇒ 00:32:27.189 Uttam Kumaran: Many people at this company are smart enough to articulate what part of the company they’re at, what the problem they’re having.
327 00:32:27.390 ⇒ 00:32:29.090 Uttam Kumaran: Go into the issues.
328 00:32:29.220 ⇒ 00:32:36.620 Uttam Kumaran: Ex… and then walk through a discovery, and then… and then agree with you guys on a goal. Every single person at the company can do that.
329 00:32:37.110 ⇒ 00:32:48.619 Uttam Kumaran: Everybody’s so smart. Everybody can do that, alright? So, that is one thing, is that there’s… we’re missing a ton of people up here that can help flesh this out.
330 00:32:49.080 ⇒ 00:32:59.469 Uttam Kumaran: The last piece I will also say is that there’s… there is nobody at the bottom, right? There’s nobody seeing this thing out, and finding out if truly…
331 00:32:59.580 ⇒ 00:33:02.180 Samuel Roberts: We did achieve our goal, right?
332 00:33:02.230 ⇒ 00:33:06.830 Uttam Kumaran: So ideally, what we should see here is we should see .
333 00:33:07.030 ⇒ 00:33:07.560 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
334 00:33:08.070 ⇒ 00:33:09.320 Uttam Kumaran: this, right?
335 00:33:10.600 ⇒ 00:33:15.789 Uttam Kumaran: We should see that we went, we looked, we went back, and we achieved.
336 00:33:16.050 ⇒ 00:33:17.470 Uttam Kumaran: What we set out to do.
337 00:33:18.090 ⇒ 00:33:24.220 Uttam Kumaran: That is not happening right now, right? Like… That is not… That is not the case.
338 00:33:25.300 ⇒ 00:33:30.720 Uttam Kumaran: So, there’s no… No, end-to-end…
339 00:33:30.970 ⇒ 00:33:35.269 Uttam Kumaran: Did we achieve goal? And part of that is because we don’t think we set the goal sometimes.
340 00:33:35.270 ⇒ 00:33:37.620 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. What is that stamp? I just… I’m not sure what I’m looking at there.
341 00:33:37.620 ⇒ 00:33:39.089 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just a red stamp.
342 00:33:39.090 ⇒ 00:33:44.440 Samuel Roberts: Oh, red, okay, okay, I just wasn’t sure if it was, like, I couldn’t tell what it was. No, I get it now, okay. You’re good, okay.
343 00:33:44.440 ⇒ 00:33:51.430 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s not happening. Sure. So I think these are, like, this is a pretty decent map of…
344 00:33:51.870 ⇒ 00:33:52.760 Uttam Kumaran: like…
345 00:33:52.960 ⇒ 00:34:03.279 Uttam Kumaran: what the current issues are. And so one thing I want to talk through while we have a bit of time today is sort of, like, where I want to see this head.
346 00:34:03.560 ⇒ 00:34:11.429 Uttam Kumaran: starting this week, and then I have a good problem. I have a good function and problem and issues for y’all.
347 00:34:11.800 ⇒ 00:34:16.340 Uttam Kumaran: And then we can see how we can run through The whole thing.
348 00:34:16.449 ⇒ 00:34:23.049 Uttam Kumaran: So… And this is the teaser on sort of, like, what it is. So let’s talk about…
349 00:34:24.330 ⇒ 00:34:29.319 Uttam Kumaran: where we want to go, right? And even for this process, let’s say where we are.
350 00:34:29.429 ⇒ 00:34:33.969 Uttam Kumaran: and where we want to go, right? So, if I was to… Put this up here…
351 00:34:36.480 ⇒ 00:34:39.739 Uttam Kumaran: This is, where we are today.
352 00:34:43.560 ⇒ 00:34:44.100 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me.
353 00:34:48.040 ⇒ 00:34:53.450 Uttam Kumaran: and I’m gonna say… Where we want to be.
354 00:34:54.070 ⇒ 00:34:55.090 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.
355 00:34:55.219 ⇒ 00:35:06.669 Uttam Kumaran: And as you guys know, each of these things is… there’s a decent bit going into it, but I think this is the entire cycle. And so here’s a couple things that we… we want to be. One is…
356 00:35:06.820 ⇒ 00:35:10.819 Uttam Kumaran: like… We want to erase me off the map, right?
357 00:35:10.980 ⇒ 00:35:16.760 Uttam Kumaran: A couple other things that need to happen. One, Sam has to get at this level.
358 00:35:17.630 ⇒ 00:35:20.890 Uttam Kumaran: Casey and Mustafa have to make it to this level.
359 00:35:21.950 ⇒ 00:35:23.970 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And that way.
360 00:35:24.440 ⇒ 00:35:32.779 Uttam Kumaran: You three, by the time you get to building, are all super in sync on, like, what the heck we’re even trying to do here.
361 00:35:32.780 ⇒ 00:35:46.560 Uttam Kumaran: you feel proud of the end product, because if you don’t feel proud, then when you ship something that doesn’t work, you won’t care. And so, you have to know this piece really well. In fact.
362 00:35:46.580 ⇒ 00:35:52.650 Uttam Kumaran: One thing that I mentioned is that this stuff is going to go to AI.
363 00:35:53.220 ⇒ 00:35:54.180 Samuel Roberts: Right?
364 00:35:54.570 ⇒ 00:36:00.189 Uttam Kumaran: As we talked about, a lot of the design, engineering, review, and proof of concept
365 00:36:00.430 ⇒ 00:36:09.829 Uttam Kumaran: there will be more people like me, Amber, Awash, that will be able to help and buy you guys bandwidth to do this
366 00:36:10.230 ⇒ 00:36:14.180 Uttam Kumaran: this stuff. But what we’re not capable of is this.
367 00:36:14.430 ⇒ 00:36:34.270 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And this is where we actually need really core team members to support here, because none of this gets done right without this having a hard thought put into it. Right? And so, what I’m trying to say is, like, it’s not like y’all aren’t going anywhere, but your limited bandwidth
368 00:36:34.750 ⇒ 00:36:38.560 Uttam Kumaran: Has to go to really knocking this section out of the park.
369 00:36:38.700 ⇒ 00:36:51.019 Uttam Kumaran: Because once you have clear tickets and design, you’ve now seen that more people that are less skilled can help there, and give you guys some more points, linear points there, right, in terms of bandwidth.
370 00:36:51.280 ⇒ 00:36:56.909 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing where I kind of want to see is… I want to see, like.
371 00:36:57.040 ⇒ 00:37:05.969 Uttam Kumaran: who… I kind of want to see everybody here, but let me tell you who, if I was to pick today, could super support here, is, like, Amber.
372 00:37:06.640 ⇒ 00:37:09.599 Uttam Kumaran: is Rico, is Awash?
373 00:37:10.720 ⇒ 00:37:12.699 Uttam Kumaran: is Demolade…
374 00:37:14.450 ⇒ 00:37:19.490 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And again, these are a lot of folks on the engineering side, but this is Hannah.
375 00:37:19.900 ⇒ 00:37:21.289 Samuel Roberts: And this is Ryan.
376 00:37:21.290 ⇒ 00:37:21.980 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
377 00:37:22.160 ⇒ 00:37:26.919 Uttam Kumaran: These are the core… I would say operators in the business across
378 00:37:27.830 ⇒ 00:37:32.040 Uttam Kumaran: Sales, project management, marketing, and engineering.
379 00:37:32.710 ⇒ 00:37:35.890 Uttam Kumaran: Of course, you guys are also on the engineering side here.
380 00:37:35.890 ⇒ 00:37:36.460 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
381 00:37:36.460 ⇒ 00:37:38.240 Uttam Kumaran: Which makes it even better, because…
382 00:37:38.310 ⇒ 00:37:40.539 Samuel Roberts: If the problems are engineering-related.
383 00:37:40.650 ⇒ 00:37:45.570 Uttam Kumaran: Or even if it’s stand-up related, grooming related, review-related, client meeting related, like.
384 00:37:45.850 ⇒ 00:37:50.000 Uttam Kumaran: I just, like, if it’s related to some of the core functions that you’re involved with.
385 00:37:50.130 ⇒ 00:38:01.430 Uttam Kumaran: you guys are directly downstream of the fact that these things are hard to do, because the quality of your tickets, the quality of our Monday planning, the quality of our client reactions.
386 00:38:01.900 ⇒ 00:38:05.169 Uttam Kumaran: The amount of money that comes in the business are all things that
387 00:38:05.410 ⇒ 00:38:16.219 Uttam Kumaran: you guys are affected by. And so you have… what I’m trying to share here is you have all of the understanding. 100%. It is a very simple business.
388 00:38:16.450 ⇒ 00:38:22.989 Uttam Kumaran: It’s actually so simple that it’s so painful that we can’t automate more, and that’s why I’m coming
389 00:38:23.130 ⇒ 00:38:31.149 Uttam Kumaran: Here, it’s because the automation opportunities, when I open my eyes, are staring me in the face. And so this is something also that
390 00:38:31.310 ⇒ 00:38:36.710 Uttam Kumaran: In the short term, I will continue to help these people Get this out.
391 00:38:37.540 ⇒ 00:38:40.429 Uttam Kumaran: And this is where I will go… these people, I feel like.
392 00:38:40.550 ⇒ 00:38:45.140 Uttam Kumaran: Also need a little bit of training on how to demonstrate this to y’all.
393 00:38:45.310 ⇒ 00:38:53.599 Uttam Kumaran: But what I need is really for there to be core camaraderie between, like.
394 00:38:54.010 ⇒ 00:39:02.440 Uttam Kumaran: these two… these two crews, right? And that’s what I still think… Like…
395 00:39:02.970 ⇒ 00:39:05.140 Uttam Kumaran: This is not happening right now.
396 00:39:05.140 ⇒ 00:39:05.870 Samuel Roberts: Right.
397 00:39:06.160 ⇒ 00:39:09.369 Uttam Kumaran: I think I am in between somewhere…
398 00:39:09.480 ⇒ 00:39:15.170 Uttam Kumaran: I think usually I’m this person, and then also sometimes I’m this person.
399 00:39:15.300 ⇒ 00:39:21.550 Uttam Kumaran: And so I can’t be either of them. And so what I’m gonna do is I’ll sit over here, and I’m gonna train
400 00:39:21.710 ⇒ 00:39:26.439 Uttam Kumaran: these folks… On how to be a great client.
401 00:39:26.620 ⇒ 00:39:27.080 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
402 00:39:27.080 ⇒ 00:39:36.000 Uttam Kumaran: how to articulate what you’re doing, where you need help, but I can’t… where I’m gonna tell them to stop is on the solutioning.
403 00:39:36.200 ⇒ 00:39:38.020 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna say, don’t solution.
404 00:39:38.500 ⇒ 00:39:48.190 Uttam Kumaran: let Sam, Mustafa, and Casey and the AI team need to own the ideation, the discovery, and the solution, if you guys are gonna own the outcome.
405 00:39:48.470 ⇒ 00:39:52.800 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And because… Previously, you guys were only in the zone.
406 00:39:53.000 ⇒ 00:39:55.990 Uttam Kumaran: And you didn’t know this, you could never own this.
407 00:39:56.310 ⇒ 00:39:57.530 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not fair.
408 00:39:57.690 ⇒ 00:40:04.249 Uttam Kumaran: I just don’t see a world in where you would… you would only be part-shipping one or two of the tickets, and then you’d been like, well.
409 00:40:04.650 ⇒ 00:40:13.400 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t really know where this even came from, right? So we’re trying to eliminate that. The other piece is we need to think about more, like, feedback loops.
410 00:40:15.210 ⇒ 00:40:18.510 Uttam Kumaran: So, there needs to be a feedback loop between
411 00:40:19.130 ⇒ 00:40:27.430 Uttam Kumaran: the function, problem, issues, and the goal, right? And then, at this point, this goal needs to go back to this person.
412 00:40:27.780 ⇒ 00:40:28.500 Samuel Roberts: Sure.
413 00:40:31.160 ⇒ 00:40:43.969 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so that person needs to be aware of, like, what the goal we’re doing is. Additionally, once we get through the architecture and the solution, the solution also needs to go… get…
414 00:40:44.490 ⇒ 00:40:45.510 Uttam Kumaran: Confirm.
415 00:40:45.640 ⇒ 00:40:50.529 Uttam Kumaran: with… with our goal, right? So… This also needs to happen.
416 00:40:52.560 ⇒ 00:40:55.150 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing that needs to happen is…
417 00:40:55.380 ⇒ 00:41:02.790 Uttam Kumaran: when you do the proof of concept, that needs to go to the goal. The MVP needs to go back to the goal, right? So each of these have to get back
418 00:41:03.060 ⇒ 00:41:06.319 Uttam Kumaran: to this ultimate goal.
419 00:41:08.500 ⇒ 00:41:13.049 Uttam Kumaran: And so this is, like, what I’d like to ideally start to see
420 00:41:13.530 ⇒ 00:41:18.420 Uttam Kumaran: You know, this week, is that we’re starting to think in…
421 00:41:18.960 ⇒ 00:41:24.390 Uttam Kumaran: in this way. And one other piece I’ll do here… is…
422 00:41:28.680 ⇒ 00:41:29.550 Uttam Kumaran: this.
423 00:41:31.230 ⇒ 00:41:35.600 Uttam Kumaran: So I hope this kind of makes a little bit more sense.
424 00:41:35.900 ⇒ 00:41:40.879 Uttam Kumaran: like, any questions, and then I can take the last few minutes, just talk about
425 00:41:41.220 ⇒ 00:41:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: a rough problem set that I’ll give to you guys to focus on this week.
426 00:41:46.300 ⇒ 00:41:53.079 Uttam Kumaran: And then I have… I’ll… I’ll write up the PRD if we… if we’re okay with that sort of, like, problem.
427 00:41:53.380 ⇒ 00:41:55.139 Uttam Kumaran: Which I have, and then…
428 00:41:56.130 ⇒ 00:42:01.010 Uttam Kumaran: We can talk today a little bit about, like, how we want to run this, but, like, what do you guys think about this?
429 00:42:06.060 ⇒ 00:42:12.120 Samuel Roberts: I think it makes sense. I get exactly what you’re saying. I think it’s…
430 00:42:12.440 ⇒ 00:42:27.090 Samuel Roberts: I… again, I… I mean, again, I don’t want to be too defensive, but, like, this is, I think, what went well when I was working directly with Hannah on some of this stuff. Like, obviously, I was stepping into it, but, like, I see exactly what you’re saying, like, I was re-looping her in, like, things, and then, yeah, I… I see how it can work.
431 00:42:27.570 ⇒ 00:42:28.320 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
432 00:42:33.440 ⇒ 00:42:35.390 Uttam Kumaran: What do you guys think, Casey? Mustafa?
433 00:42:37.380 ⇒ 00:42:42.589 Mustafa Raja: Yeah, I, I really like this architecture that we, we’ve laid out here.
434 00:42:43.230 ⇒ 00:42:47.540 Mustafa Raja: We all will be in sync with what’s happening.
435 00:42:47.650 ⇒ 00:42:49.190 Mustafa Raja: And so I like it.
436 00:42:51.040 ⇒ 00:42:56.500 Casie Aviles: Yeah, I guess for me, my only question is for this step, like…
437 00:42:57.700 ⇒ 00:43:01.659 Casie Aviles: What does the arrow leading into here mean?
438 00:43:03.050 ⇒ 00:43:08.400 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that means that the design has to be… they have to be consulted about the design, right?
439 00:43:08.400 ⇒ 00:43:09.099 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, so, yeah.
440 00:43:09.100 ⇒ 00:43:12.329 Uttam Kumaran: So, kind of like, at each of these points, there is a checkpoint.
441 00:43:13.130 ⇒ 00:43:32.550 Uttam Kumaran: which can be Slack, can be a meeting, but the other point I want to make is I was previously running these checkpoints, right, where I get everybody into a room. Now, the point is going to be, you guys run these checkpoints. Because what you’re going to find is if you don’t run the checkpoint, like, if you don’t go back to your client and show them the design.
442 00:43:32.570 ⇒ 00:43:39.099 Uttam Kumaran: and then you build it, and it’s not what they wanted, you will have to go all the way back. It’s like chutes and ladders.
443 00:43:40.240 ⇒ 00:43:45.290 Uttam Kumaran: You’re playing Chutes and Ladders, right? I don’t know… I don’t know if you guys have Chutes and ladders in Asia.
444 00:43:45.660 ⇒ 00:43:51.300 Uttam Kumaran: It’s this game… okay, so it’s this game where you go up the board, you can… you have ladders to go up, you have slides to go down, right?
445 00:43:51.920 ⇒ 00:43:53.950 Samuel Roberts: It’s known by a few other names, too, I forget what they are, though.
446 00:43:53.950 ⇒ 00:44:13.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and so the biggest point I’m saying is if you don’t hit these checkpoints, similar to Chutes and Ladders, where you have those checkpoints, you don’t hit it, you may make it, but it’s gonna… you’re gonna get lucky. You’re… it’s not gonna be typically by skill, unless you’re, like, Johnny Ive, right? Unless you’re, like, the best product designer, and you can literally, like.
447 00:44:13.280 ⇒ 00:44:26.380 Uttam Kumaran: see into the future and see people’s problems, like, 10 years from now. For us, like, mortals, like, we have to have these checkpoints. So when you… when you arrive at the goal, you have to check… when you… when you come up with a solution, you have to check…
448 00:44:26.450 ⇒ 00:44:33.569 Uttam Kumaran: But what you’re… but also what you’re doing at these points is you’re not asking them to give you these things, you’re asking them for feedback.
449 00:44:33.950 ⇒ 00:44:49.600 Uttam Kumaran: And you guys, as the product developers, can decide whether to take it or not, right? And so this is where you need to consult, but you don’t need, like, approval. And this is where I want to give you guys the freedom… this is the creative…
450 00:44:50.120 ⇒ 00:44:56.309 Uttam Kumaran: Side of building software products, is your customer does not always know what they want.
451 00:44:56.670 ⇒ 00:45:01.589 Uttam Kumaran: So, make sure you get this from your customer, but don’t get this from them.
452 00:45:01.590 ⇒ 00:45:02.250 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
453 00:45:02.250 ⇒ 00:45:03.650 Uttam Kumaran: This is up to you guys.
454 00:45:04.120 ⇒ 00:45:05.679 Uttam Kumaran: And Sam, you know this.
455 00:45:06.410 ⇒ 00:45:11.199 Uttam Kumaran: you know, this is… so, that’s… that’s kind of, like, what I want to…
456 00:45:11.630 ⇒ 00:45:17.160 Uttam Kumaran: To leave you guys with today is, like, this diagram to kind of talk about
457 00:45:17.840 ⇒ 00:45:20.540 Uttam Kumaran: sort of how I’m thinking about things this week.
458 00:45:20.770 ⇒ 00:45:27.160 Uttam Kumaran: So the core issue this week that I want to propose is that stand-ups are difficult to run.
459 00:45:28.450 ⇒ 00:45:31.729 Uttam Kumaran: I have a list of the issues on why they’re difficult to run.
460 00:45:31.920 ⇒ 00:45:36.480 Uttam Kumaran: I have a little bit of, like, a starting point on a PRD.
461 00:45:36.790 ⇒ 00:45:37.600 Uttam Kumaran: Right?
462 00:45:37.950 ⇒ 00:45:50.180 Uttam Kumaran: And I will… I can hand that to you guys today, but that’s the idea I want to start with. But what do I kind of, like, want to see today? What do I… what do I want to see, like, this week, right? So, if we talk about,
463 00:45:51.240 ⇒ 00:45:54.630 Uttam Kumaran: like, on Monday, it’s the idea.
464 00:45:55.410 ⇒ 00:45:58.340 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Or, on Monday, it’s the, like, problem.
465 00:45:58.340 ⇒ 00:45:58.890 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
466 00:46:00.940 ⇒ 00:46:05.859 Uttam Kumaran: if I was to say, like, Wednesday, we do a check-in.
467 00:46:06.810 ⇒ 00:46:10.120 Uttam Kumaran: Ideally, we should be somewhere closer to here.
468 00:46:10.290 ⇒ 00:46:10.960 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
469 00:46:10.960 ⇒ 00:46:19.930 Uttam Kumaran: And then on Thursday, in our AI meeting, we see, like, a dry run, Internal?
470 00:46:20.160 ⇒ 00:46:22.740 Uttam Kumaran: And then on Friday, we want to ship something.
471 00:46:23.620 ⇒ 00:46:30.059 Uttam Kumaran: So, we’re gonna run true, like… weekly… product sprints.
472 00:46:32.050 ⇒ 00:46:36.990 Uttam Kumaran: And this is where I think you guys are gonna have to take this, and fill in…
473 00:46:37.780 ⇒ 00:46:47.150 Uttam Kumaran: where does Wednesday… like, where is Wednesday, right? Ideally, Wednesday’s something here, Thursday something closer here, Friday’s also, like, here, right?
474 00:46:53.710 ⇒ 00:46:55.230 Uttam Kumaran: So you have one week.
475 00:46:56.190 ⇒ 00:47:02.380 Uttam Kumaran: So, I would… I would think about it, like, on Monday and Tuesday, by the end of Tuesday.
476 00:47:03.350 ⇒ 00:47:09.769 Uttam Kumaran: You need to have a really great idea of, like, what the problem is, and what the goal is.
477 00:47:10.330 ⇒ 00:47:15.010 Uttam Kumaran: Because I think this is not gonna be that difficult for y’all. You may need one day.
478 00:47:15.190 ⇒ 00:47:16.350 Uttam Kumaran: And in this…
479 00:47:16.560 ⇒ 00:47:29.029 Uttam Kumaran: using Cortex and everything, if you have everything ticketed, should be good, unless there are significant architecture. So by Wednesday, you need to know whether there are significant architecture things, so that you can budget for Thursday, Friday.
480 00:47:29.260 ⇒ 00:47:31.900 Uttam Kumaran: But this is how I think we gotta run.
481 00:47:32.180 ⇒ 00:47:33.160 Uttam Kumaran: the weeks.
482 00:47:33.820 ⇒ 00:47:38.799 Uttam Kumaran: And I think what this allows us to do is instead of me starting the week with tickets.
483 00:47:38.920 ⇒ 00:47:41.950 Uttam Kumaran: I’m starting with an overarching problem.
484 00:47:42.620 ⇒ 00:47:48.029 Uttam Kumaran: That… that you guys can then push back on and say, that problem is too big, you need to break it down, blah blah blah.
485 00:47:48.150 ⇒ 00:48:00.810 Uttam Kumaran: And I will do this for 1 or 2 weeks, and then eventually, we will start promoting these people to come to this meeting and come with a problem, and this meeting will be more of that, like, user interview to kick off the week.
486 00:48:03.890 ⇒ 00:48:04.680 Samuel Roberts: period.
487 00:48:04.780 ⇒ 00:48:06.889 Uttam Kumaran: Do we roughly feel like… yeah, go ahead, Sam.
488 00:48:06.890 ⇒ 00:48:21.390 Samuel Roberts: I was gonna say, the other thing I want to mention is that I think you just sort of got to it, like, the problems, the issues, the discovery and goal, like, will become large, guys, and so, because we’re running one week, you have to figure out, like, is the architecture gonna be too much? Is it, like.
489 00:48:21.390 ⇒ 00:48:32.560 Samuel Roberts: And if we’re trying to build end-to-end features, it doesn’t mean the first half of the feature’s here, and then the next week is gonna be the second half of the feature. It’s gotta be what scope can we get done that slices across
490 00:48:33.050 ⇒ 00:48:36.009 Samuel Roberts: And actually achieve something, if that makes sense.
491 00:48:36.010 ⇒ 00:48:36.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
492 00:48:36.910 ⇒ 00:48:54.740 Samuel Roberts: Because it can be easy to be like, okay, we’ll ticket out this, and then we’ll get half of it done by Friday, and the other half done by next Friday, and that’s not gonna be what we’re looking for at this point. We’re gonna be, okay, this is actually, like, you know, this is a big thing, we can get this slice done by this Friday.
493 00:48:54.930 ⇒ 00:48:59.169 Samuel Roberts: And we can… but, like, it’s an end-to-end useful thing, if that makes sense.
494 00:49:00.540 ⇒ 00:49:09.920 Samuel Roberts: Because, yeah, some of these problems are going to be big, some of these problems are gonna be beyond a week, you know, obviously, as we get better with architecting and using codecs and stuff, like, we can do more, but it’s still, like.
495 00:49:10.040 ⇒ 00:49:12.880 Samuel Roberts: Don’t leave something half-finished, leave something…
496 00:49:13.030 ⇒ 00:49:18.349 Samuel Roberts: slightly less scope, but useful in its own right, is what I would say, if you agree, Tom.
497 00:49:18.560 ⇒ 00:49:22.039 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. And this can be trade-offs that you guys have to make.
498 00:49:22.040 ⇒ 00:49:22.620 Samuel Roberts: Exactly.
499 00:49:22.620 ⇒ 00:49:27.210 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll have the two days to kind of decide and make it. But this is where the other piece is that
500 00:49:28.000 ⇒ 00:49:30.260 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just gonna be on the stand-ups every day.
501 00:49:31.200 ⇒ 00:49:36.360 Uttam Kumaran: So, after Monday, I’m sort of gonna be like, okay, my expectation is this.
502 00:49:36.480 ⇒ 00:49:39.989 Uttam Kumaran: So clear… on my Wednesday, I can give feedback on, like.
503 00:49:40.940 ⇒ 00:49:50.249 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t, like, it seems like we’re not gonna get there. It’s up to you guys to self-organize and get around this problem, so I’ll leave it to you. Of course, like, Ricoh can help with any organization.
504 00:49:50.550 ⇒ 00:49:55.730 Uttam Kumaran: So what I’m gonna deliver… so, like, if we were to talk about this week, I’m gonna deliver to you guys…
505 00:49:55.970 ⇒ 00:50:03.320 Uttam Kumaran: ideally, like, by… in the next, like, 2 hours or so, depending on if I get out of this next meeting. I’ll deliver it to you guys…
506 00:50:03.570 ⇒ 00:50:09.669 Uttam Kumaran: a PRD on what I’m thinking, and what are the issues currently for stand-ups, and a couple of ideas.
507 00:50:09.790 ⇒ 00:50:15.169 Uttam Kumaran: you have me, Enrico, and Amber that have run stand-ups now for a long time.
508 00:50:15.780 ⇒ 00:50:19.310 Uttam Kumaran: But I think you guys will understand, like, generally what we’re going for.
509 00:50:19.800 ⇒ 00:50:20.620 Uttam Kumaran: And then…
510 00:50:21.080 ⇒ 00:50:30.750 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll kind of leave it for you there. If this helps, you can literally start a doc, or keep it all in here to just, like, label for this problem each of these pieces.
511 00:50:31.300 ⇒ 00:50:36.270 Uttam Kumaran: And then, of course, if you have questions on, like, hey, is there a framework, or is there a…
512 00:50:36.730 ⇒ 00:50:40.910 Uttam Kumaran: template or something asks me, because I can help you organize.
513 00:50:40.910 ⇒ 00:50:43.620 Samuel Roberts: But I would say don’t let organization.
514 00:50:44.230 ⇒ 00:50:51.719 Uttam Kumaran: be the villain here, like, ship stuff out, you know? Ship stuff out and get feedback early.
515 00:50:51.920 ⇒ 00:50:55.250 Uttam Kumaran: from the people that… that you’re affecting, so…
516 00:50:55.870 ⇒ 00:50:59.760 Uttam Kumaran: So I think this is fun, I mean, I think this is, like, week-long kind of hackathons.
517 00:50:59.760 ⇒ 00:51:00.160 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
518 00:51:00.160 ⇒ 00:51:08.549 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s, like, instead of, like… but it’s focused, right? So this is where, like, the turbo puffer, all that stuff, I want that to be part of
519 00:51:09.070 ⇒ 00:51:12.990 Uttam Kumaran: Shipping things, where you decide on those, versus the other way around.
520 00:51:13.100 ⇒ 00:51:17.009 Samuel Roberts: Versus we’re building infra just to have in case, you know? So…
521 00:51:18.060 ⇒ 00:51:25.390 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, okay, I’m late to this next stand-up, let’s talk, let’s keep talking. Can you share that, FigJam? I don’t see it when I’m searching FigJam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I will,
522 00:51:27.480 ⇒ 00:51:28.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
523 00:51:29.740 ⇒ 00:51:30.090 Samuel Roberts: But yeah.
524 00:51:30.090 ⇒ 00:51:33.479 Uttam Kumaran: And mess… yeah, okay, cool. And then, yeah, if you guys can…
525 00:51:33.720 ⇒ 00:51:38.760 Uttam Kumaran: The next meeting, we’re just… I’ll try to talk through Insomnia in the beginning, and that way you guys can probably drop after that.
526 00:51:40.220 ⇒ 00:51:41.490 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll make sure you guys are in this.
527 00:51:41.490 ⇒ 00:51:45.510 Samuel Roberts: Oh, okay, yeah, I’m… I’m thinking of insomnia planning later at 11.
528 00:51:45.680 ⇒ 00:51:47.180 Samuel Roberts: Don’t see anything right now.
529 00:51:47.180 ⇒ 00:51:51.150 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Yeah, I think we’re gonna do it right now, but I’ll send you the…
530 00:51:51.150 ⇒ 00:51:53.429 Samuel Roberts: I see it. No, I see it on your calendar, I don’t see it on mine. Okay, okay.
531 00:51:53.430 ⇒ 00:51:54.539 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, alright, thanks.