Meeting Title: Brainforge x EY AI Strategy Sync Date: 2026-02-26 Meeting participants: Clarence Stone, Adam Jones (EY)
WEBVTT
1 00:00:09.230 ⇒ 00:00:26.400 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I bought 3 of these, because I follow this Twitter account that does, like, it finds, like, price mismatches. Oh, yeah, yeah. And these went for, like, 12 bucks a month. You actually bought one? It went for 12 bucks, I probably bought 3. Jess was like, what are you doing? I was like, it’s a steal, dude, these were, like, for 35 bucks, like…
2 00:00:26.530 ⇒ 00:00:45.479 Clarence Stone: These are 35 bucks each, and I got free shipping. She’s like, we have cuffs. I’m like, I don’t throw those away, this is legit. She’s like, I’m on a wallet girl. I said, oh my god, I have so many objections, this is just the best. And then she’s like, she’s already using it, and I’m like, yes, it’s Stanley. It’s literally, like, legit.
3 00:00:45.570 ⇒ 00:00:49.539 Clarence Stone: You got the hype. All the moms want the Stanley. Yeah.
4 00:00:51.490 ⇒ 00:00:54.490 Clarence Stone: I… no, I use. I use…
5 00:00:58.690 ⇒ 00:01:00.629 Clarence Stone: I don’t even know what that grain is.
6 00:01:08.160 ⇒ 00:01:09.440 Clarence Stone: Hydro Flask.
7 00:01:10.440 ⇒ 00:01:12.220 Clarence Stone: There’s a ton of hydrophone. Yeah.
8 00:01:16.330 ⇒ 00:01:20.930 Clarence Stone: Dude, those Twitter deals, every time I see them posted, I’m too late to them.
9 00:01:21.740 ⇒ 00:01:27.780 Clarence Stone: I guess I’m feeling mad, I’m like, just wasting my time. And then I stopped following them.
10 00:01:28.240 ⇒ 00:01:30.569 Clarence Stone: Sometimes it’s some bullshit to sit in.
11 00:01:32.450 ⇒ 00:01:35.379 Clarence Stone: The slick deals stick around for a while, so…
12 00:01:35.700 ⇒ 00:01:38.719 Clarence Stone: I’ve… I’ve just been good with listening to that feed.
13 00:01:44.560 ⇒ 00:01:46.119 Clarence Stone: What do you want, Andrew?
14 00:01:50.260 ⇒ 00:01:52.760 Clarence Stone: I’m gonna leave you alone for, like, a whole 4 days.
15 00:02:12.580 ⇒ 00:02:14.450 Clarence Stone: I was asleep? Were you good?
16 00:02:15.220 ⇒ 00:02:21.869 Clarence Stone: Yeah. I get some highway noise, so sometimes it’s a little noisy, because people are, like, ripping it on the highway.
17 00:02:54.330 ⇒ 00:02:59.190 Clarence Stone: Alright, I’m gonna ask him what he’s up to. What the fuck, bro? You said you wanted it.
18 00:03:01.470 ⇒ 00:03:07.160 Clarence Stone: Yeah, 10.30 Eastern is 9.30, right? Yep. Okay.
19 00:03:10.510 ⇒ 00:03:18.380 Clarence Stone: That shit always fucks me up. Really? Dude. I don’t know if I should add one or subtract one. That’s why I’ve been cal.
20 00:03:18.720 ⇒ 00:03:23.389 Clarence Stone: The Outlook app allows you to do that.
21 00:03:24.210 ⇒ 00:03:38.580 Clarence Stone: throw up. And when I was at UI, I used to just live on Eastern, because just everybody was Eastern, so my work clock was Eastern. Oh, see, from data… from data work, I know so much about time zone, like… Zulu.
22 00:03:38.630 ⇒ 00:03:56.589 Clarence Stone: Huh? UTC. Oh, yeah. Is what you guys just use, right? Standard UTC. Yeah, but UTC, I know all the… I know the conversions. Oh, you know all the conversions? Yeah, it’s like, it’s, 6 is Eastern, right? Yeah, it’s like plus 6, and then plus 5 here. Yeah. Yeah. And plus… I guess plus 3 is Calvin.
23 00:03:57.020 ⇒ 00:03:58.340 Clarence Stone: Yeah, and then…
24 00:03:58.390 ⇒ 00:04:16.369 Clarence Stone: that’s… there’s an island, so the one thing I needed to do is basically find the earliest time, the… at one point, the earliest time that is the earliest when the day starts, to basically… because for WeWork, we have things all across the globe, so to do their final reconciliation for the day, I had to find the latest day. Oh.
25 00:04:16.370 ⇒ 00:04:24.280 Clarence Stone: What is it, Australia, then? What is it? No, there’s an island. Oh, really? Yeah, there’s an island, Wikipedia, where it’s the… it’s the latest time zone.
26 00:04:24.390 ⇒ 00:04:31.120 Clarence Stone: So you could use that, and then basically it’s like 8 hours, so we need 8-hour SLA for close, close of business, close a day.
27 00:04:31.850 ⇒ 00:04:34.700 Clarence Stone: It’s gonna be really crazy. Oh, the Christmas Islands!
28 00:04:35.250 ⇒ 00:04:39.740 Clarence Stone: Kiribati Yeah.
29 00:04:41.420 ⇒ 00:04:42.930 Clarence Stone: That’s in the middle of nowhere.
30 00:04:58.910 ⇒ 00:05:02.139 Clarence Stone: Hurry, Adam, you want to play it this way, don’t you? You want to answer me?
31 00:06:41.770 ⇒ 00:06:43.340 Clarence Stone: Oh, he didn’t get it.
32 00:06:43.720 ⇒ 00:06:45.859 Clarence Stone: The fucking EY thing.
33 00:06:46.930 ⇒ 00:06:50.369 Clarence Stone: What was he gonna join? Blocked our email, I guess.
34 00:06:53.380 ⇒ 00:06:54.080 Clarence Stone: button.
35 00:06:55.380 ⇒ 00:07:06.160 Clarence Stone: It is… Because I can’t… text somebody at UI from my personal computer, so I have to text myself.
36 00:07:09.420 ⇒ 00:07:13.970 Clarence Stone: And then… Send it to him.
37 00:07:49.850 ⇒ 00:07:50.990 Clarence Stone: Adam?
38 00:07:50.990 ⇒ 00:07:52.629 Adam Jones (EY): Hey, can you guys hear me?
39 00:07:52.750 ⇒ 00:07:53.850 Clarence Stone: What’s up?
40 00:07:54.450 ⇒ 00:07:56.640 Adam Jones (EY): Hey, what’s up? Sorry about that, I.
41 00:07:56.640 ⇒ 00:08:01.540 Clarence Stone: No worries, no worries, dude. Joe Schoon just got back, right? So, there’s probably a lot of catching up to do.
42 00:08:02.310 ⇒ 00:08:05.320 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, it’s a… Shitshow.
43 00:08:05.320 ⇒ 00:08:16.550 Clarence Stone: Oh, really? Well, maybe we could, talk to you about something positive and cool. I’m happy to introduce Utam, the person I keep talking to you about. Hey Adam, nice to meet you.
44 00:08:16.550 ⇒ 00:08:17.900 Adam Jones (EY): Hey, nice to meet you, sir.
45 00:08:18.120 ⇒ 00:08:19.870 Clarence Stone: Yeah, how’s everything going?
46 00:08:20.290 ⇒ 00:08:23.709 Adam Jones (EY): Busy, hectic, crazy, good.
47 00:08:23.970 ⇒ 00:08:27.430 Clarence Stone: Same. Yeah, I think those words for me, too.
48 00:08:29.660 ⇒ 00:08:31.659 Clarence Stone: Adam, are you in Texas, too?
49 00:08:32.010 ⇒ 00:08:34.169 Adam Jones (EY): I’m in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
50 00:08:34.179 ⇒ 00:08:36.649 Clarence Stone: Oh, okay, I, I went to Bucknell.
51 00:08:36.900 ⇒ 00:08:38.320 Adam Jones (EY): Okay, very cool.
52 00:08:38.320 ⇒ 00:08:38.770 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
53 00:08:38.770 ⇒ 00:08:49.819 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, Clarence and I met in New Jersey. You know, we had a business relationship in the past, and, you know, he worked with EY for a little bit, so…
54 00:08:50.230 ⇒ 00:08:54.250 Adam Jones (EY): That’s where Clarence and I connected. I’m not,
55 00:08:54.450 ⇒ 00:08:59.149 Adam Jones (EY): from, or nor do I live in Texas, nor do I have any
56 00:09:00.150 ⇒ 00:09:01.919 Adam Jones (EY): Desire to do that, and then…
57 00:09:01.920 ⇒ 00:09:06.159 Clarence Stone: I, I grew up in the Bay Area, and I don’t think…
58 00:09:06.450 ⇒ 00:09:24.769 Clarence Stone: until, like, maybe 4 years ago, I don’t think I would have believed that I would ever be in Texas. You know, when I grew up there, like, Texas was, like, tumbleweeds. I was like, I don’t even know this is… I thought it was, like, a fictional place. I didn’t even know there’s anybody here. And in California, they talk about this place, like, it’s, like, a war zone, like, it’s, like, some…
59 00:09:24.950 ⇒ 00:09:30.949 Clarence Stone: Demilitarized zone. Same in New York, when I was in New York, they were like, ew, like, what is that?
60 00:09:31.400 ⇒ 00:09:35.850 Adam Jones (EY): I mean, when you’re outside of California, people talk about California like a war.
61 00:09:35.850 ⇒ 00:09:38.180 Clarence Stone: Yes, yes, yeah, yes.
62 00:09:38.180 ⇒ 00:09:40.919 Adam Jones (EY): Outside of… when you’re outside of New York.
63 00:09:41.160 ⇒ 00:09:48.079 Adam Jones (EY): people talk about New York, you know, like it’s just this lawless, you know… I think…
64 00:09:48.080 ⇒ 00:09:56.650 Clarence Stone: Right now, the story is the snow melting, and there being dog poop everywhere, because… Yeah, I think that the.
65 00:09:57.020 ⇒ 00:10:10.259 Adam Jones (EY): everybody’s perspective is so skewed, and it’s all crazy, and I think what we’re doing, is just gonna amplify that for a period of time, and if they can’t solve…
66 00:10:10.690 ⇒ 00:10:22.519 Adam Jones (EY): Simple things like, you know, how to, you know, clean up dog poop, or do you need two IDs to vote, or… I mean, shovel snow, sorry. You don’t need any IDs to vote.
67 00:10:22.520 ⇒ 00:10:32.550 Clarence Stone: California was early, like, we… in California, we’ve been giving weed to the homeless for almost 15 years. We’ve opened injection sites next to preschools in SF.
68 00:10:32.550 ⇒ 00:10:33.639 Adam Jones (EY): Great. I mean, that’s worth…
69 00:10:33.640 ⇒ 00:10:42.980 Clarence Stone: But I grew up in the East Bay, I grew up where everybody… I grew up where everybody now wants to go… leave us up to go live. So, more suburb, kid.
70 00:10:42.980 ⇒ 00:10:51.649 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, I think that, at the end of the day, like, yeah, we can’t even do simple stuff. This, AI revolution is going to…
71 00:10:51.890 ⇒ 00:10:54.959 Adam Jones (EY): You know, it’s gonna be… it’s gonna be fun. I think the next…
72 00:10:55.380 ⇒ 00:11:00.520 Adam Jones (EY): Decade is gonna be unlike anything we’ve ever seen, and…
73 00:11:00.870 ⇒ 00:11:04.650 Adam Jones (EY): You know, it’s either you’re gonna be leading or kind of following.
74 00:11:04.650 ⇒ 00:11:05.549 Clarence Stone: Pretty much, yeah.
75 00:11:05.550 ⇒ 00:11:08.460 Adam Jones (EY): Or being led, exactly. And,
76 00:11:08.580 ⇒ 00:11:19.100 Adam Jones (EY): you gotta be careful with who you are being led by. Like, you know, Clarence and I were in the military, one thing I always like to say is, I like to lead leaders, I don’t lead followers.
77 00:11:19.100 ⇒ 00:11:35.009 Adam Jones (EY): So that requires, like, active engagement in the people that I work with, and, you know, you can’t outsource your thinking, your values, your work ethic, like, none of that. But, like, I think that,
78 00:11:35.650 ⇒ 00:11:43.399 Adam Jones (EY): too many people, because, like, they don’t have any idea what we’re doing. Like, even what you guys are doing, you know, is pushing the envelope
79 00:11:43.690 ⇒ 00:11:51.280 Adam Jones (EY): You know, you guys are probably, like, the tip of this… the private, spe… Spear, right?
80 00:11:51.280 ⇒ 00:11:57.970 Clarence Stone: I think we’re… I think we’re close outside the foundational LLM firms, who are, like, their stuff is, like.
81 00:11:58.240 ⇒ 00:11:59.629 Adam Jones (EY): And DARPA.
82 00:11:59.630 ⇒ 00:12:01.080 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah.
83 00:12:01.080 ⇒ 00:12:07.370 Adam Jones (EY): Besides that, you guys are, like, at the tip, and then, you know, I’m allowed to build…
84 00:12:07.600 ⇒ 00:12:13.630 Adam Jones (EY): I got, like, a lot of investment dollars that I get to spend, you know, with NUI, and…
85 00:12:13.740 ⇒ 00:12:17.710 Adam Jones (EY): I got large latitude to do whatever I want.
86 00:12:17.820 ⇒ 00:12:36.549 Adam Jones (EY): And so, like, I’m probably, like, a step or two behind you guys, but, like, just where we’re at alone, let alone, like, the handful of people that are ahead of each of us, the rest of the population have absolutely no clue what’s happening, or what’s about to happen, and it’s gonna be a complete,
87 00:12:36.870 ⇒ 00:12:46.980 Adam Jones (EY): You know, I… you know, I don’t know if you ever did jiu-jitsu, but it’s like a scramble for position, you know? Like, we’re about to go through a national and global scramble for position.
88 00:12:46.980 ⇒ 00:12:47.350 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
89 00:12:47.350 ⇒ 00:12:51.250 Adam Jones (EY): Before, kind of, a new norm settles in. So anyway…
90 00:12:51.250 ⇒ 00:13:06.990 Clarence Stone: One thing I was asking Clarence yesterday is I said, I’ve been building this business now for 3 years, and I built the business a lot using AI, and I wonder every year, every, like, 6 months now, I’m like, what changed? And I was asking, like, what is the inflection point now that we feel like
91 00:13:07.000 ⇒ 00:13:24.710 Clarence Stone: more people, like, a substantial amount of people know about AI. Like, for me, I’ve been trying to sell some of this for 2 years, and it’s crickets for, like, for a while, until, like, 8 months. Now, I think, for me, it was really, I think a lot of people started using ChatGPT personally.
92 00:13:25.110 ⇒ 00:13:38.339 Clarence Stone: And those people now run businesses or leaders themselves, and they’re like, there’s a total work use case. And now they’re like, okay, they’ve tried to just use Copilot or something, they’re like, no, no, but I need to stitch these together. So I wonder what you think is, like.
93 00:13:38.560 ⇒ 00:13:44.270 Clarence Stone: why now is maybe a moment different than, like, a year ago or 6 months ago? I don’t know if you have a thought about that.
94 00:13:44.270 ⇒ 00:13:48.169 Adam Jones (EY): Oh, I definitely haven’t thought about that. The… the reason…
95 00:13:49.510 ⇒ 00:14:04.530 Adam Jones (EY): well, two things. One, it comes from, like, what perspective you’re talking about, because, you know, Clarence will tell you, I’m always… I got a little bit of, like, that Elon Musk timeline delusion, and I, you know, I thought everything would be…
96 00:14:04.670 ⇒ 00:14:06.249 Adam Jones (EY): Done by now.
97 00:14:06.250 ⇒ 00:14:12.269 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I think I’m… I think Clarence is like that, too. I’m a lot more like, dude, there’s no… it’s gonna take a.
98 00:14:12.270 ⇒ 00:14:19.619 Adam Jones (EY): Clarence is a little bit on, like, yeah, like, it’s like, on a spectrum, it’s probably maybe you and me, then Clarence?
99 00:14:19.620 ⇒ 00:14:24.000 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, I think I… You got that talk with me yesterday.
100 00:14:24.000 ⇒ 00:14:24.469 Adam Jones (EY): Wait, hold on.
101 00:14:24.470 ⇒ 00:14:29.879 Clarence Stone: I actually like, because I said, like, both of us could be right maybe by some of the sector, or whatever, you know?
102 00:14:29.880 ⇒ 00:14:39.869 Adam Jones (EY): 100%, like, that’s, you know, you and I should talk about how to communicate with Clarence. We should start, like, an AA group or something.
103 00:14:40.670 ⇒ 00:14:42.459 Adam Jones (EY): I’m just joking, man.
104 00:14:42.460 ⇒ 00:14:46.640 Clarence Stone: A CA group was CA. It’s fair and valid, valid feedback.
105 00:14:46.640 ⇒ 00:14:55.910 Adam Jones (EY): The thing is, like, the good part about all of that is it creates a sense of urgency, and as long as you’re directionally correct, more often than not…
106 00:14:55.910 ⇒ 00:14:56.310 Clarence Stone: I’ll be right.
107 00:14:56.310 ⇒ 00:14:58.629 Adam Jones (EY): You’re gonna find yourself in a good position.
108 00:14:58.630 ⇒ 00:15:00.170 Clarence Stone: Right on some timeline.
109 00:15:00.170 ⇒ 00:15:06.759 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, exactly. So with that being said, I think where…
110 00:15:07.350 ⇒ 00:15:15.559 Adam Jones (EY): for, like, business technology executives, like, maybe you could put me in that… like, I’m like a product guy, like, you know, that’s where I’ve kind of landed over the years, like…
111 00:15:15.560 ⇒ 00:15:28.510 Adam Jones (EY): I’m definitely a business guy. You know, I’ve been a CEO of, you know, a startup and of a small business, and at EY, I’m in charge of our AI program for our entire practice.
112 00:15:28.510 ⇒ 00:15:31.010 Adam Jones (EY): But, like…
113 00:15:31.240 ⇒ 00:15:43.569 Adam Jones (EY): I know all about, like, you know, if it doesn’t make dollars, it doesn’t make sense, and AI is just a new tool in, you know, our toolbox to deliver value
114 00:15:43.570 ⇒ 00:15:57.480 Adam Jones (EY): better, faster, you know, more efficient, create net new value, things of that nature. So, like, when I put, like, my business technology hat on, I… my answer there is,
115 00:15:58.650 ⇒ 00:16:02.160 Adam Jones (EY): I didn’t appreciate all the scaffolding that was gonna be needed.
116 00:16:03.920 ⇒ 00:16:13.350 Adam Jones (EY): you know, I saw the… you know, Clarence will even tell you, I created this thing at EY called Jenny, Gen EY, loved it. I was drunk at my.
117 00:16:13.350 ⇒ 00:16:14.569 Clarence Stone: Oh, it’s funny.
118 00:16:14.570 ⇒ 00:16:15.180 Adam Jones (EY): Alright, guys.
119 00:16:15.180 ⇒ 00:16:17.039 Clarence Stone: It’s a product marketing, it’s coming.
120 00:16:17.040 ⇒ 00:16:31.310 Adam Jones (EY): It’s a fantastic name, but all the freaking pinheads were like, no, we can’t name it that. But, like, everybody loved it. I was, like, at my buddy’s birthday party, and I had the epiphany, and I started, like, you know, never drunk text your boss unless you come up with a good brand, and they were like.
121 00:16:31.890 ⇒ 00:16:35.630 Adam Jones (EY): They loved it, but then the nerds shot it down. But nevertheless…
122 00:16:35.630 ⇒ 00:16:37.760 Clarence Stone: We still called it that for a long time.
123 00:16:37.760 ⇒ 00:16:39.049 Adam Jones (EY): More of, like.
124 00:16:39.050 ⇒ 00:16:40.309 Clarence Stone: Didn’t go away.
125 00:16:40.310 ⇒ 00:16:44.060 Adam Jones (EY): Forever. But, Clarence will even tell you this.
126 00:16:44.520 ⇒ 00:16:48.870 Adam Jones (EY): we beat… OpenAI and ChatGPT to
127 00:16:49.020 ⇒ 00:16:54.470 Adam Jones (EY): the GPT creator experience. We were ahead of that.
128 00:16:54.470 ⇒ 00:16:54.970 Clarence Stone: Okay.
129 00:16:56.100 ⇒ 00:17:08.030 Adam Jones (EY): And because of that, I was like, oh my goodness, we can encapsulate these, like, you know, Clayton Christensen job to be done, you know, as long as we can pass in data, do the job to be done, like…
130 00:17:08.030 ⇒ 00:17:10.690 Clarence Stone: Do a modular block of, like, a certain work, given input.
131 00:17:10.690 ⇒ 00:17:26.149 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, and let’s make it reusable, like, all these things are gonna be, you know, before MCP was even, like, a term, you know, we were like, you know, reusability, build skills and tools and connectors once, make them available to everyone. Like, we had all of this.
132 00:17:26.500 ⇒ 00:17:35.370 Adam Jones (EY): And, you know, it sat in a mirror, it sat on a slide, we had great talking points, we built some things,
133 00:17:35.520 ⇒ 00:17:47.419 Adam Jones (EY): we didn’t really appreciate the need for headless, you know, agents as much, you know, because everyone’s like, how do you get adoption? It’s like, you’re thinking about it wrong, like, you don’t need adoption, so they’re just running in the background.
134 00:17:47.420 ⇒ 00:17:47.790 Clarence Stone: Yes.
135 00:17:47.860 ⇒ 00:17:51.060 Adam Jones (EY): you know, agents should pull you in. Like, you’re the agent now, bud.
136 00:17:51.060 ⇒ 00:17:51.740 Clarence Stone: Well, you…
137 00:17:51.740 ⇒ 00:17:53.289 Adam Jones (EY): Not the other way around, like…
138 00:17:53.290 ⇒ 00:17:54.689 Clarence Stone: We’re the limiting factor.
139 00:17:54.690 ⇒ 00:17:56.270 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, YOU are the agent.
140 00:17:56.270 ⇒ 00:17:57.810 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, the humans, like, the humans…
141 00:17:57.810 ⇒ 00:17:58.639 Adam Jones (EY): Human is the age.
142 00:17:58.640 ⇒ 00:18:02.530 Clarence Stone: The fact that, like, we have to engage with it is the limiting factor, yeah.
143 00:18:02.530 ⇒ 00:18:17.359 Adam Jones (EY): So, you know, so I think there was that, like, all the scaffolding that ended up needing to be made, the MCP, A to A, I still think, you know, and I think this is an area where you guys are doing very interesting things. You know, I think there’s…
144 00:18:17.460 ⇒ 00:18:26.179 Adam Jones (EY): knowledge efficiencies that we need to figure out and do better. You know, I do think RAG is powerful, but limited.
145 00:18:26.180 ⇒ 00:18:38.429 Adam Jones (EY): I do think you don’t want your agents to hallucinate based on a corpus that’s too large for it to really understand what it will do. And then, I think, you know, though token costs are going down.
146 00:18:38.430 ⇒ 00:18:44.990 Adam Jones (EY): The… and this is getting more into, like, the second perspective, which is, like, pure play business executive.
147 00:18:44.990 ⇒ 00:18:45.650 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
148 00:18:45.650 ⇒ 00:18:51.170 Adam Jones (EY): Like, it’s really hard to commit to an ROI in capital investment.
149 00:18:51.390 ⇒ 00:19:05.360 Adam Jones (EY): if, like, how much is this gonna cost to run? I don’t know. You know, like… You know, like, you know, it’s like, really? Like, so, if I’m gonna put, like, if I’m gonna give you a million dollars, to transform a process.
150 00:19:05.650 ⇒ 00:19:18.480 Adam Jones (EY): you, you know, you can tell me all the stuff, well, you know, the cost of compute’s going down, you know, historical trends, but how much will, like, okay, so you’re gonna build, I don’t know, 100 agents for me?
151 00:19:18.910 ⇒ 00:19:20.480 Adam Jones (EY): How much does just that cost?
152 00:19:20.480 ⇒ 00:19:20.900 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
153 00:19:21.640 ⇒ 00:19:29.810 Clarence Stone: unit. It’s… it’s actually, like, what would it… what would the ROI be if SOWs went from a week, two week, to, like.
154 00:19:29.990 ⇒ 00:19:36.289 Clarence Stone: a single day. Like, you know, it’s almost like, how do we measure the unit of work difference and…
155 00:19:36.290 ⇒ 00:19:44.220 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, all of that is… all of that is a challenge for a business executive to cut a check, because…
156 00:19:44.330 ⇒ 00:19:50.809 Adam Jones (EY): the numbers are, like… you know, my… I got an MBA in finance, and the thing that I learned in that was…
157 00:19:51.110 ⇒ 00:19:55.149 Adam Jones (EY): Every statistic has just a myriad of assumptions behind it.
158 00:19:56.070 ⇒ 00:20:00.940 Adam Jones (EY): If they’re not clearly articulated and agreed to, you know, the number is…
159 00:20:01.370 ⇒ 00:20:05.040 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, you know. And that’s,
160 00:20:05.460 ⇒ 00:20:18.190 Adam Jones (EY): incomplete, like, you know? And so, anyway, there’s so many assumptions nowadays, like, in how long is it gonna cost to build? Like, how much, like, capital expense do I need to, you know, put out there?
161 00:20:18.480 ⇒ 00:20:20.749 Adam Jones (EY): You know, just to get this thing built well.
162 00:20:21.200 ⇒ 00:20:29.170 Adam Jones (EY): you got your traditional development, then, you know, now we have AI tools that can help with development, but, like, what they’re producing isn’t necessarily.
163 00:20:29.170 ⇒ 00:20:34.879 Clarence Stone: you know, it still needs to be reviewed, and so what exact lift are you getting there? So even, like.
164 00:20:34.880 ⇒ 00:20:47.430 Adam Jones (EY): you know, the input variables into the cost side of the equation is not as clear, you know, so all of this is shaking, getting, you know, getting shaken up at the same time, so why now?
165 00:20:47.430 ⇒ 00:20:47.820 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
166 00:20:47.820 ⇒ 00:20:53.149 Adam Jones (EY): From a business perspective, The ones that…
167 00:20:54.200 ⇒ 00:21:04.399 Adam Jones (EY): So, a lot of people have, you know, like you said, they use ChatGPT or whatever on the side, and, you know, they’ve had mixed results, and…
168 00:21:04.400 ⇒ 00:21:05.680 Clarence Stone: they…
169 00:21:05.680 ⇒ 00:21:10.669 Adam Jones (EY): You know, either discard it or think that, okay, this was a… just a…
170 00:21:10.810 ⇒ 00:21:13.169 Adam Jones (EY): You know, the hype cycle, like, this thing.
171 00:21:13.170 ⇒ 00:21:14.090 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
172 00:21:14.210 ⇒ 00:21:15.130 Adam Jones (EY): And…
173 00:21:15.330 ⇒ 00:21:20.979 Clarence Stone: That’s very true, so those people still need to be convinced. They’re still not there yet. Okay.
174 00:21:21.500 ⇒ 00:21:29.490 Adam Jones (EY): But… you do see some business people, and I think this is where we’re at with EY,
175 00:21:30.130 ⇒ 00:21:38.669 Adam Jones (EY): that we’ve built now these individual agents and, you know, these small agentic teams. Like, we have enough, like,
176 00:21:39.540 ⇒ 00:21:44.749 Adam Jones (EY): Case and point examples that are… that are so material, where it’s like.
177 00:21:44.750 ⇒ 00:21:46.630 Clarence Stone: Or you can kind of, like, you can… you can jump the…
178 00:21:46.630 ⇒ 00:21:51.659 Adam Jones (EY): You can extrapolate it, like, holy shit, like, that’s 90% of what.
179 00:21:51.660 ⇒ 00:21:52.790 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
180 00:21:53.220 ⇒ 00:21:56.120 Adam Jones (EY): So, when you start seeing that.
181 00:21:56.160 ⇒ 00:22:05.679 Adam Jones (EY): you’re like, well, now what’s our limiting factor? Well, now we gotta scale. Can we scale? Well, the scaffolding’s now coming online, finally, you know?
182 00:22:05.680 ⇒ 00:22:19.359 Adam Jones (EY): And open claw is, you know, obviously a step change for everybody, and it’s making that scaffolding, like, dynamic, and it’s very dangerous right now, you know, you guys are doing a good job of, like, you know.
183 00:22:19.360 ⇒ 00:22:38.359 Adam Jones (EY): harnessing the fire, you know, because fire is good or bad, you know, an open claw is definitely fire. It will break the whole entire company down if you don’t harness it. But if you do harness it, you know, it’s the steam engine that’s gonna, like, allow you to, like, just chug along for a generation.
184 00:22:38.630 ⇒ 00:22:58.250 Adam Jones (EY): So, I think that’s why now, I think the business object… the business executives are starting, like, the ones that have actually seen case-in-point examples that are material, and they’re now seeing things like Open Claw, even though it’s terrifying, they’re starting to make the connection, like.
185 00:22:58.650 ⇒ 00:23:09.539 Adam Jones (EY): okay, we can actually scale this. And I think, to give Clarence’s flowers, again, now, even at EY, we’re talking about, on-prem models, you know.
186 00:23:09.880 ⇒ 00:23:32.609 Adam Jones (EY): For a couple of reasons. Like, one is, like, IP. Nobody trusts Sam Altman. Yeah. You know, Google has done a good job of, like, rehabilitating its reputation, but it’s still, like, who really wants to give Google everything? I don’t want to give Amazon anything. You know, Microsoft, you know, besides, like, their founder, I mean, maybe they’re the most trusted.
187 00:23:32.610 ⇒ 00:23:49.860 Adam Jones (EY): OpenAI in general is not. So do you really want to, like, risk putting your company’s IP in the hands of, like, Sam Altman and all these people? Do it on-prem. That solves the IP problem, it solves the data security problem, and it really helps you solve the,
188 00:23:50.120 ⇒ 00:23:52.410 Adam Jones (EY): you know, cost estimation problem. If you’re gonna have.
189 00:23:52.410 ⇒ 00:23:52.880 Clarence Stone: Yes.
190 00:23:52.880 ⇒ 00:24:04.600 Adam Jones (EY): your inference done on-prem, you know, so I’ll give Clarence his flowers there. I don’t think, like, we’re in a position to really do anything about it, but he accurately extrapolate… I mean, at scale, right?
191 00:24:04.600 ⇒ 00:24:05.120 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
192 00:24:05.120 ⇒ 00:24:07.549 Adam Jones (EY): If we were, if we were, like, you know…
193 00:24:08.100 ⇒ 00:24:13.750 Adam Jones (EY): Jensen Wong wearing our shitty leather jacket, like, at scale, we could do something about this.
194 00:24:13.750 ⇒ 00:24:14.180 Clarence Stone: Yes, yes.
195 00:24:14.180 ⇒ 00:24:17.700 Adam Jones (EY): There’s, like, a couple of dudes, and, you know, we could, we could, like, buy every.
196 00:24:17.700 ⇒ 00:24:34.170 Clarence Stone: But also, what you’re gonna find is, like, just the… just figuring out this, like, showing people that the water is wet is… is more… it’s gonna be… it’s way… it’s just as hard. Think about, like, explaining why on-prem LLMs is, like… it’s like, okay, well, maybe at some point we’ll explain that.
197 00:24:34.170 ⇒ 00:24:40.830 Adam Jones (EY): That’s a hard… you know, like, for business executives, it’s like, wait a minute, like, didn’t you guys just spend the last, like.
198 00:24:40.830 ⇒ 00:24:41.320 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
199 00:24:41.320 ⇒ 00:24:42.490 Adam Jones (EY): Kim’s telling me, like.
200 00:24:42.490 ⇒ 00:24:48.909 Clarence Stone: Yeah, that’s, it’s like, that has nothing to do with this, but I get it, yeah, it’s
201 00:24:49.260 ⇒ 00:24:50.280 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
202 00:24:50.280 ⇒ 00:24:52.919 Adam Jones (EY): So anyway, I think that’s… that’s what’s happening.
203 00:24:53.090 ⇒ 00:25:10.729 Clarence Stone: Yeah. I mean, maybe I’ll give you a little bit about my background. You know, I started… my background’s in data engineering, computer engineering. I worked in New York for, a number of sort of increasingly smaller startups. I started my career at WeWork, sort of right as it was about to go IPO,
204 00:25:11.280 ⇒ 00:25:18.479 Clarence Stone: subsequently didn’t, and then I went to a company called Flowcode. They were, like, one of the first, like, big QR code
205 00:25:18.480 ⇒ 00:25:31.499 Clarence Stone: providers in the States, and then right now, they… what you see on NBA, NHL, in stadiums. So I sort of was the first data hire there, built the data product that they actually sold, sell the enterprise, so all the…
206 00:25:31.500 ⇒ 00:25:48.770 Clarence Stone: analytics, so when you scan a QR, it’s actually not as harmless. There’s a… meaning there’s a lot of other people looking at that data, understanding where you’re going, what you’re doing, and, built a lot of the enterprise analytics for them, and then I led product at a… the next data startup,
207 00:25:48.770 ⇒ 00:25:54.549 Clarence Stone: And built the first product, just kind of burned out, didn’t see the vision, and then left.
208 00:25:54.550 ⇒ 00:26:06.890 Clarence Stone: Moved to Austin, and then was kind of like, what’s next? I’ve done some cons… consulting, contracting for staffing firms, and I’ve hired consulting firms, like, nothing your size, but…
209 00:26:06.890 ⇒ 00:26:16.689 Clarence Stone: kind of, like, a little bit under-pressed, and I was like, okay, maybe I have a shot at doing this. I don’t want to just be a freelancer. I also did not want to go back into startups, like.
210 00:26:16.730 ⇒ 00:26:23.699 Clarence Stone: just brutal, and I also didn’t want to go to, like, big tech. I was also, like… my dad was, like.
211 00:26:23.700 ⇒ 00:26:38.589 Clarence Stone: you’re gonna shoot yourself. You go to Big Tech, he works at… he works at Intuit in the Bay Area, and he’s like, dude, there’s no way you’re gonna… you’re gonna survive this. And so I sort of tried to build a consulting firm, but I think since the beginning, we’ve always
212 00:26:38.660 ⇒ 00:26:44.240 Clarence Stone: I was lucky enough to start the firm when 3.5 came out, and so I was… been using AI
213 00:26:44.240 ⇒ 00:27:08.259 Clarence Stone: to build a firm, but we started primarily as a data, data and strategy firm. So, a lot of data warehousing, data modeling, data engineering, and then we layered on, sort of, like, strategy, like, PE-style insights, things like that. And then… but built the company with AI really significantly since the beginning, and it’s a completely bootstrap business, and, you know, now we’re… we’re about 25 people.
214 00:27:08.320 ⇒ 00:27:13.550 Clarence Stone: You know, and sort of, I saw firsthand, like, constraint
215 00:27:13.700 ⇒ 00:27:32.440 Clarence Stone: like, what constraints taught me how to use AI, and I actually was using AI… we didn’t sell AI for a long time, I actually just was using it, and I built our AI team because I needed help. Okay, we’re gonna move to… we’re gonna do exactly what you said. It’s like, two… two and a half years ago, I’m like, NADEN is the rage. Everything’s gonna be built on NADEN, it’s…
216 00:27:32.440 ⇒ 00:27:48.909 Clarence Stone: the GPTs and lane chain, I’m like, let’s skip that. Okay, then NAN’s gonna die, let’s… we have agentic frameworks. So we’ve been sort of a little bit ahead of the curve, maybe, like, a year internally, but every time I went out to the market to sort of, like, sell it, it was… people just weren’t… again, it was like, I’m like.
217 00:27:49.020 ⇒ 00:27:53.350 Clarence Stone: people weren’t even using ChatGPT, like, on their phone, and I’m like, how am I gonna explain to you what
218 00:27:53.480 ⇒ 00:28:00.239 Clarence Stone: what it is we’re doing, so I’m like, get to that moment. It’s like, see the magic trick, and then you’ll hopefully be able to, like.
219 00:28:00.350 ⇒ 00:28:09.829 Clarence Stone: do the jump, and I think you’re right in the way you explained it, is now, I think we were talking about yesterday, it’s like, maybe it’s the Super Bowl ads, maybe it’s, like, people’s kids, maybe it’s the fact that, like.
220 00:28:09.830 ⇒ 00:28:19.129 Adam Jones (EY): This is where… this is where I think, like, from an executive perspective, like, if I were to, like, just consult and advise you, you know, like, brand marketing is huge right now.
221 00:28:19.130 ⇒ 00:28:19.480 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
222 00:28:19.480 ⇒ 00:28:37.100 Adam Jones (EY): with where you’re at, because being ahead, like, being able to extrapolate a trend accurately is, like, obviously important for any business. The timing of it is something that’s outside of our control. We cannot control when the market wakes up.
223 00:28:37.100 ⇒ 00:28:37.500 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
224 00:28:37.500 ⇒ 00:28:47.230 Adam Jones (EY): But, what you can do is you can plant that, like, you know, subtle seed, where when they wake up, they think of you.
225 00:28:47.230 ⇒ 00:28:49.080 Clarence Stone: We keep knocking, we’ll keep knocking.
226 00:28:49.080 ⇒ 00:28:59.519 Adam Jones (EY): Exactly, that’s all that. Like, then when they wake up, and, you know, they all come to you, it’s like, it’s gonna be feast or famine, like, you’re in famine phase until they wake up.
227 00:28:59.520 ⇒ 00:29:00.660 Clarence Stone: Yes.
228 00:29:00.660 ⇒ 00:29:06.180 Adam Jones (EY): And then… and then it becomes a feast to the point where you’re kind of overwhelmed.
229 00:29:06.180 ⇒ 00:29:06.970 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
230 00:29:06.970 ⇒ 00:29:12.729 Adam Jones (EY): If you do your job right, if you don’t, and then you gotta parlay, you know, those…
231 00:29:12.730 ⇒ 00:29:20.270 Clarence Stone: Definitely. But the same challenge is what I face, because I have a business where it’s not only my engineers using agentic tools.
232 00:29:20.270 ⇒ 00:29:43.820 Clarence Stone: I’m like, how is sales using this? Operations using it? Everybody in the business, how are we dissecting, and how am I measuring adoption? So we’ve had these, like, things we’ve tried in a business that’s, like, completely bootstrapped, and, like, how we do all these, so that when people talk to me about adoption, I’m like, great, yeah, because nobody in my company walks through the door, they get handed, like, an AI system on their first day, and they’re forced…
233 00:29:43.820 ⇒ 00:29:54.900 Clarence Stone: to use it. Like, there’s no, there’s no debate, like, anymore. And I’m like, okay, how did we get there? Like, what was it… what was I thinking about two years ago when, like, this wasn’t the case, or I was having internal struggles, and…
234 00:29:55.060 ⇒ 00:30:04.219 Clarence Stone: team was like, I don’t see what the use is, and like, you’re totally right, and so every 3-6 months, I think we knock on the door, and we see, and I think…
235 00:30:04.240 ⇒ 00:30:16.130 Clarence Stone: part of it, I think, talking to Clarence a lot, is what happened with CloudBot is it showed the UI and all the scaffolding on, like, things working in the background, but actually, I think
236 00:30:16.130 ⇒ 00:30:28.190 Clarence Stone: we are a data company first, and so what was really amazing about our system is everything is in data warehouses, databases, super easily accessible via CLI or query engines.
237 00:30:28.190 ⇒ 00:30:40.549 Clarence Stone: And so, that is actually what I did for a long time. I was like, we’re gonna build extremely rich context. Like, 3 years… 2 years ago, I was like, this is what’s gonna matter way more than… the LLMs are gonna catch up.
238 00:30:40.550 ⇒ 00:30:55.710 Clarence Stone: Because when we jumped from 3.5 to 4, I was like, oh, okay, like, we’re just gonna wait, like, it’ll catch up, but the context engineering is just data engineering, and it’s all I’ve done my, like, my whole career. Just kind of rebranded a little bit, you know?
239 00:30:56.430 ⇒ 00:31:11.540 Clarence Stone: Say that what I’ve been demoing to you doesn’t work without him, that’s what I mean. I created an awesome UI for people to interact with things, but without that data structure, right, the agents that I have, the automations that I have, the skills that I’ve built, really don’t work as well.
240 00:31:11.790 ⇒ 00:31:12.130 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah.
241 00:31:12.130 ⇒ 00:31:17.560 Clarence Stone: And it’s really the foundation to getting, you know, something that is good versus something excellent like that.
242 00:31:17.560 ⇒ 00:31:21.200 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, you don’t gotta sell me. As soon as you showed it to me, what did I tell you? I said…
243 00:31:21.880 ⇒ 00:31:27.229 Adam Jones (EY): I said go into bunker mode, like, you’re no longer, like, Captain Clarence, you’re General Clarence, like.
244 00:31:27.230 ⇒ 00:31:31.849 Clarence Stone: I like Captain Clarence, so if Captain Clarence comes out, I’m like, okay.
245 00:31:31.850 ⇒ 00:31:35.849 Adam Jones (EY): Isn’t that what I told you, though? Like, like, you need to, like, you guys have something here.
246 00:31:35.850 ⇒ 00:31:37.230 Clarence Stone: That’s why he’s here, Adam.
247 00:31:37.230 ⇒ 00:31:53.100 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. You guys… you guys have something here, and, you know, I’m… I’m patiently waiting for you guys to blow up to hire me, like, because I’m, you know, I… I don’t want to work for the man forever, but I do got a family, and they do pay me well, so I’m not…
248 00:31:53.100 ⇒ 00:31:53.650 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah.
249 00:31:53.650 ⇒ 00:32:00.409 Adam Jones (EY): I’m an old man right now, I’m not trying to be ramen rich, I’m trying to be rich rich, you know what I’m saying? So, at the same time.
250 00:32:01.290 ⇒ 00:32:02.020 Clarence Stone: Nobody else.
251 00:32:02.020 ⇒ 00:32:03.770 Adam Jones (EY): You guys have, you guys have, I mean.
252 00:32:03.770 ⇒ 00:32:11.849 Clarence Stone: appreciation from being inside is actually what’s valuable. That’s why I said, it’s like, I’ve done it through constraint, and I’ve seen it, but…
253 00:32:11.850 ⇒ 00:32:25.690 Clarence Stone: like, again, the empathy for, like, what an EY is facing in the internal politics is actually what matters. The technology… I’m of the feeling that, like, the technology’s gonna catch up, but it’s the frame… the people, again, are the limitation. Like…
254 00:32:25.690 ⇒ 00:32:36.909 Adam Jones (EY): I think there’s two limitations, and I think you guys are solving one, maybe two. I think I’m solving one, but not the other one just yet. I think the…
255 00:32:37.440 ⇒ 00:32:49.859 Adam Jones (EY): you know, now that scaffolding is catching up and all of that, I think the context that, you know, drives down inference, like, accurate, relevant.
256 00:32:49.990 ⇒ 00:32:51.650 Adam Jones (EY): Just-in-time con.
257 00:32:51.650 ⇒ 00:32:53.949 Clarence Stone: Well, you mentioned RAG, but again, there’s, like.
258 00:32:53.950 ⇒ 00:32:57.170 Adam Jones (EY): If you wanna, if you wanna, like, if you wanna, like, write that down accurately.
259 00:32:57.170 ⇒ 00:32:57.540 Clarence Stone: Yes.
260 00:32:57.540 ⇒ 00:32:59.489 Adam Jones (EY): It’s been just-in-time context.
261 00:32:59.490 ⇒ 00:32:59.820 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
262 00:32:59.820 ⇒ 00:33:02.739 Adam Jones (EY): Like, that is your… that is your, like, that’s what you’re.
263 00:33:02.740 ⇒ 00:33:03.809 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
264 00:33:03.810 ⇒ 00:33:13.240 Adam Jones (EY): That’s what people don’t have. So why would I need accurate, relevant, just-in-time context? Well, it drives down hallucination, drives down cost, increases efficiency.
265 00:33:13.240 ⇒ 00:33:18.829 Clarence Stone: You can use cheaper LLMs, because, like, why does your LLM need to know what the Bible is? Like, you know what I mean?
266 00:33:18.830 ⇒ 00:33:20.250 Adam Jones (EY): He doesn’t need to know that, but like…
267 00:33:20.250 ⇒ 00:33:20.720 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
268 00:33:20.720 ⇒ 00:33:33.070 Adam Jones (EY): what’s your alternative? Well, I’m gonna go fine-tune and or build my own thing. Like, you don’t need to do any of that. You need accurate, relevant, just-in-time content. And here, I have that for you. You don’t need to go build your own thing.
269 00:33:34.190 ⇒ 00:33:41.750 Adam Jones (EY): And then I… so I think you’re doing that, I’m not doing that, I got that problem. I need to solve it. The other side is, like.
270 00:33:42.050 ⇒ 00:33:47.440 Adam Jones (EY): The, you know, just tried and true, Product or bid.
271 00:33:47.440 ⇒ 00:33:47.770 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
272 00:33:47.770 ⇒ 00:33:53.889 Adam Jones (EY): Consulting. Like, sitting down with somebody and saying, you know, what do you do?
273 00:33:54.330 ⇒ 00:33:55.380 Clarence Stone: time studies.
274 00:33:55.380 ⇒ 00:34:02.670 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, like, like, yeah, like, that’s just, like, bread and butter stuff, but, like, the…
275 00:34:03.180 ⇒ 00:34:10.669 Adam Jones (EY): You know, you could probably create an agent or something that would do this, but at the same time, like, it’s a very human…
276 00:34:10.670 ⇒ 00:34:14.229 Clarence Stone: No, it’s a human, it’s a human-human thing. It’s human experience, also.
277 00:34:14.230 ⇒ 00:34:14.829 Adam Jones (EY): It’s a huge…
278 00:34:14.830 ⇒ 00:34:18.229 Clarence Stone: Again, we’re limited by the fact that they need to use the system.
279 00:34:18.230 ⇒ 00:34:19.039 Adam Jones (EY): And they need to trust…
280 00:34:19.040 ⇒ 00:34:19.400 Clarence Stone: So…
281 00:34:19.409 ⇒ 00:34:30.329 Adam Jones (EY): They need to trust it, and when you go to, anybody that does any sort of knowledge work that has any sort of, like, scrutiny placed on it.
282 00:34:30.330 ⇒ 00:34:31.120 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
283 00:34:31.120 ⇒ 00:34:33.270 Adam Jones (EY): You’ll immediately hear
284 00:34:34.120 ⇒ 00:34:51.189 Adam Jones (EY): you know, the thing can’t… it doesn’t meet our, you know, requirements, or it can’t deliver. And there’s actually been studies so far that’s proven that, like, it’s like, agents underperform at, like, 90% of tasks. Like, well, why… why do they underperform? Well.
285 00:34:51.190 ⇒ 00:34:54.500 Adam Jones (EY): They don’t have, you know, accurate, relevant…
286 00:34:54.500 ⇒ 00:34:59.049 Adam Jones (EY): Just-in-time context, that’s one of the main reasons.
287 00:34:59.050 ⇒ 00:35:17.770 Adam Jones (EY): The other one really is, you know, going back to, like, the job to be done, it doesn’t understand where it exists within your ecosystem, end-to-end process, value chain, etc. So these standard, you know, things that we, you know, a lot of people want to just fast-forward and, you know.
288 00:35:17.770 ⇒ 00:35:33.350 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I mean, for us, we basically come in, and companies, we say, what if I found you 20-40% efficiency? Like, I don’t do the, hey, we’re gonna automate everybody, we’re gonna fire… I got… it’s not… that’s not… that’s not relevant and not worth promising. I said, I’m gonna find you 20-40%,
289 00:35:33.350 ⇒ 00:35:46.599 Clarence Stone: tell me another bet that’s gonna get you that, and let’s just aim for that to start. So we’re not, like, we’re not saying, AI, do the whole thing in the end. We’re cutting the pieces that we can actually nail to the standard that you mentioned.
290 00:35:46.730 ⇒ 00:36:00.629 Clarence Stone: and you can check it on one end, check it on the other end, great, pass it, pass it. And then, as we nail what the checks are, that starts to expand. But the problem with a lot of people now, and a lot of the AI agencies, is that they’re, like, they’re running to, like, the this.
291 00:36:00.630 ⇒ 00:36:24.460 Clarence Stone: And then they slip, and then they lose all the trust, and data, like, I know that very, very well. Like, the moment someone hits a dashboard, puts a number in front of their boss, and it’s wrong, they’re like, our data team sucks, I’m gonna still go back to Excel. So, I feel like it’s rhymes a lot for me, where I’m like, okay, you crawl, walk, run, you crawl, walk, run, but I am confident that if you give this thing the 10 transcripts.
292 00:36:24.460 ⇒ 00:36:29.849 Clarence Stone: It’s gonna write a 95% email. And actually, we still need you to put the sauce on top.
293 00:36:29.920 ⇒ 00:36:35.729 Clarence Stone: Like, you are still involved. Like, actually, that is what takes this to the A+, you know?
294 00:36:35.730 ⇒ 00:36:47.730 Adam Jones (EY): So what I’ve been saying is this, and, you know, I agree with everything you’re saying. I think the, reinforcement loop is something that, you know, people need to be educated on and understand.
295 00:36:47.730 ⇒ 00:36:58.810 Adam Jones (EY): why they need to participate. Because what I’ve been saying to our people is, you know, this, you know, I’m in, like, tax, but, you know, I work across, like.
296 00:36:58.810 ⇒ 00:37:11.120 Adam Jones (EY): you know, different service lines, but for my tax, people, tax is very seasonal, right? Like, you do your taxes once a year type thing. So, the business is cyclical in that regard. And…
297 00:37:11.230 ⇒ 00:37:16.599 Adam Jones (EY): you know, The first season is gonna be the worst season.
298 00:37:16.700 ⇒ 00:37:36.639 Adam Jones (EY): Right? Because, like… I see. Back to the agent, you’re the agent now. The agent reaches out to you. I was in Silicon Valley, you know, the Bay Area, last week, and for a full week, I sat down and, you know, got to talk to startup founders, went to Stanford for a day, you know, all this stuff. And, you know, Waymos are driving around all over the place.
299 00:37:37.150 ⇒ 00:37:55.740 Adam Jones (EY): And we had, like, a 30-minute block just on Waymo, and one of the things that, like, jumped out at me, like, I wrote down a lot of notes, I’m a nerd, Clarence can attest to that, you know, but the thing that I actually, like, took a photo of and sent it to my team immediately, and this might seem dumb to some people, but for me, it was like a…
300 00:37:56.060 ⇒ 00:37:58.039 Adam Jones (EY): We’ve been thinking about this wrong.
301 00:37:58.380 ⇒ 00:38:15.910 Adam Jones (EY): adoption. How do we get people to adopt? Well, like, that’s what we’ve been asking over and over. How do we get people to use this stuff? Yeah. Not at all. What does Waymo do? Well, Waymo, you know, when it gets to a stop sign, or when it runs into a scenario that it doesn’t understand.
302 00:38:16.390 ⇒ 00:38:31.890 Adam Jones (EY): it reaches back to a human to give it direction, not the other way around. So… so this holiday season, they had a spike in Waymos reaching back to a human. Like, do you… do you think you could guess why?
303 00:38:33.590 ⇒ 00:38:37.699 Clarence Stone: Ugh… I think I know. Wow, what do you think? Christmas lights?
304 00:38:37.700 ⇒ 00:38:46.600 Adam Jones (EY): Exactly. Like, it’s pulling up to… it’s pulling up to, like, a red light, but, like, there’s flashing red lights, and, like, all these, like, Christmas lights, and the thing’s, like.
305 00:38:47.240 ⇒ 00:38:57.459 Adam Jones (EY): should I go? Should I… like, well, I don’t know what to do. Like, reaches back to a human, human looks through all the sensors and says, go, don’t go, whatever. Reinforcement loop.
306 00:38:57.460 ⇒ 00:38:58.340 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
307 00:38:58.340 ⇒ 00:39:09.509 Adam Jones (EY): next Christmas season, I bet you that spike is… there might still be a spike, but it’s not going to be as steep until there’s no spike. So, what I’ve been talking to people about is, you know, that first cycle.
308 00:39:09.800 ⇒ 00:39:14.760 Adam Jones (EY): like… You know, give it grace, give it time.
309 00:39:15.010 ⇒ 00:39:15.560 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
310 00:39:15.560 ⇒ 00:39:23.450 Adam Jones (EY): Right? Because… the first cycle is gonna be the worst cycle. It’s gonna cease edge cases, and…
311 00:39:23.790 ⇒ 00:39:38.579 Adam Jones (EY): you know, scenarios and permutations that wasn’t in its training data, or maybe it was, but it was undersampled, things of that nature. And would you rather it reach out to you for your guidance and direction that then gets reinforced.
312 00:39:38.590 ⇒ 00:39:46.890 Adam Jones (EY): Or would you rather just guess and produce some shit? Like, it’s up to you. You could be not bothered, and then say this thing doesn’t work.
313 00:39:46.890 ⇒ 00:39:50.719 Clarence Stone: Yeah. You could be slightly bothered for one season… Yeah.
314 00:39:50.720 ⇒ 00:39:56.289 Adam Jones (EY): The next season, you’re not bothered hardly at all. Like, that’s… that’s like a piece of…
315 00:39:56.980 ⇒ 00:40:08.260 Adam Jones (EY): you know, that’s something where consulting comes in, right? Like, human-to-human, like, that’s the only way you’re gonna get somebody to, like, understand that, appreciate that, work within that.
316 00:40:08.380 ⇒ 00:40:16.280 Adam Jones (EY): transformation approach. You know, such that they don’t just quit on your technology halfway through.
317 00:40:16.570 ⇒ 00:40:17.220 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
318 00:40:17.390 ⇒ 00:40:17.720 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah.
319 00:40:17.720 ⇒ 00:40:30.119 Clarence Stone: You know, one thing about the Waymo thing that I also mentioned is, like, when Waymo first came out, a lot of people were like, oh, this is gonna put, like, downward pricing pressure on everything. Actually, they’re finding that it’s, like, a luxury product.
320 00:40:30.120 ⇒ 00:40:49.640 Clarence Stone: Right? And, like, the fact that you get picked up in a Jag, it’s super, super nice in there, it’s quiet, you can run AC, nobody talks. People… I take Waymo all the time in Austin, actually, like, primarily Waymo, and it’s a better product, and my girlfriend loves DayGeek, and, like, you know, wherever, and I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s actually because, yes, like.
321 00:40:49.640 ⇒ 00:40:54.590 Clarence Stone: Sometimes it’s like, you’re like, is it gonna hit something? And now it’s way… going way down, but…
322 00:40:54.590 ⇒ 00:41:10.969 Clarence Stone: because it was just initially a nicer tool than, like, having a driver and, like, the seats were not… like, something about that actually is like, oh, this actually got premium good. It didn’t do… it didn’t actually… you actually don’t have to price it cheaper, because it’s actually… it’s actually better, you know?
323 00:41:11.220 ⇒ 00:41:16.989 Adam Jones (EY): I agree with what you’re saying, it’s like a, yes, and…
324 00:41:17.250 ⇒ 00:41:21.710 Adam Jones (EY): I do think all of this ultimately will be extremely deflationary.
325 00:41:21.710 ⇒ 00:41:23.410 Clarence Stone: Totally, totally, yeah.
326 00:41:23.410 ⇒ 00:41:25.530 Adam Jones (EY): the Age of Abundance. So, like.
327 00:41:25.530 ⇒ 00:41:26.550 Clarence Stone: Like…
328 00:41:26.550 ⇒ 00:41:27.630 Adam Jones (EY): You know, so, like, what are we…
329 00:41:27.630 ⇒ 00:41:28.629 Clarence Stone: I’m with you, I’m with you.
330 00:41:28.630 ⇒ 00:41:43.799 Adam Jones (EY): It’s like the lead leaders in the next decade, because, like, that’s gonna be the scramble, the shakeout period, before, like, the new, you know, aliens will probably be coming back, you know, Epstein will, like, reveal himself.
331 00:41:43.800 ⇒ 00:41:47.150 Clarence Stone: Hopefully we’ll come back. Come back from Puerto Rico, wherever he is.
332 00:41:47.150 ⇒ 00:41:54.920 Adam Jones (EY): Exactly, and, like, you know, we’ll have a new world order of a surveillance state, but between now and then is, like, our…
333 00:41:54.920 ⇒ 00:42:00.879 Clarence Stone: That’s all I’m saying. I said, look, if that happens, nothing I’m gonna do now is gonna save me, but…
334 00:42:00.880 ⇒ 00:42:01.830 Adam Jones (EY): Or it’s like, you.
335 00:42:01.830 ⇒ 00:42:06.439 Clarence Stone: 2-year timeline, 5-year timeline, I think we gotta make money, we gotta make some impact.
336 00:42:06.440 ⇒ 00:42:12.010 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, right now. We gotta position ourselves, our people, our families, and our…
337 00:42:12.010 ⇒ 00:42:12.470 Clarence Stone: Yes.
338 00:42:12.470 ⇒ 00:42:15.840 Adam Jones (EY): Unities that are willing and of similar…
339 00:42:15.840 ⇒ 00:42:29.689 Clarence Stone: patient enough. I think you hear this word, patient, like, I think that’s the first time I’ve heard someone say, like, yeah, like, do we feel like more people are patient enough to deal with the, like, hiccups? I mean, it’s like the doctors, right?
340 00:42:29.690 ⇒ 00:42:31.530 Adam Jones (EY): The ones that are will be…
341 00:42:32.010 ⇒ 00:42:36.489 Clarence Stone: You’re crossing the castle right now. Wildly, wildly rewarded, and then the others…
342 00:42:36.540 ⇒ 00:42:43.260 Adam Jones (EY): That’s when you’re gonna ratchet up the price on them, so, yeah, you wanna catch up? Like… like, sure. We can help…
343 00:42:43.260 ⇒ 00:42:47.259 Clarence Stone: The noise… I also talk about noise. I think the noise is going up.
344 00:42:47.280 ⇒ 00:43:09.559 Clarence Stone: personally, professionally, I just think it’s, like, a static for people. And for me, I’m like, I’m like, this has been, like, I love this band. I’ve loved this band, my… I’ve been following this band since they were started. So, it’s… I’m like, I would love to hear this blasted everywhere, so… I hate that AI noise. Half of these people aren’t any good, and they’re just selling crap.
345 00:43:09.560 ⇒ 00:43:15.310 Adam Jones (EY): They’re not, they’re not, but, like, you know, that’s, that’s where…
346 00:43:15.540 ⇒ 00:43:24.060 Adam Jones (EY): Those that know, know, and those that don’t know get hoodwinked, and there’s charlatans everywhere, and, you know.
347 00:43:24.310 ⇒ 00:43:26.320 Adam Jones (EY): you know, the Charlotte…
348 00:43:26.320 ⇒ 00:43:33.990 Clarence Stone: I mean, that’s an anything when anything happens, and you try to do the… you try to do right, and you try to live… it’s like, I say play long-term games.
349 00:43:33.990 ⇒ 00:43:46.849 Clarence Stone: with lots of people, and then… Yeah, exactly. You know, so I think that’s similar to our relationship, like, I got put in touch with Clarence in a LinkedIn group chat with some other Austin, like, tech founders.
350 00:43:46.850 ⇒ 00:43:51.410 Clarence Stone: And we’ve been just chatting for, like, 2 years or something, and then…
351 00:43:51.410 ⇒ 00:43:55.510 Clarence Stone: Like, you know, I… and then I was like, we’re at an inflection point where I’m like.
352 00:43:55.700 ⇒ 00:44:05.210 Clarence Stone: hey, like, he’s been helping with Brainforge, and I’m like, hey, I think, like, we have something, but I think we both collectively bring a lot to the table, and we’re like, okay, how do we play this, you know?
353 00:44:05.240 ⇒ 00:44:08.700 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, I think you guys are in a good spot. I think that,
354 00:44:09.170 ⇒ 00:44:17.990 Adam Jones (EY): like I said, I think you guys actually have something. Not that, like… I told Clarence in, you know, when he was working at EY, I was like, dude, like.
355 00:44:18.180 ⇒ 00:44:24.620 Adam Jones (EY): you need to quit if, like, what boss tells their people that? Like, if you…
356 00:44:25.030 ⇒ 00:44:37.430 Adam Jones (EY): really want to push the boundaries, like, you gotta quit. Like, EY’s a regulated business, like, we do tax, we do accounting, you know what I mean? Like, it’s… yes, yes, like, it’s like.
357 00:44:37.590 ⇒ 00:44:46.699 Adam Jones (EY): a collection of small businesses, and we get an incredible amount of money to just fuck around with, right? But within a ton of constraints.
358 00:44:46.700 ⇒ 00:44:47.070 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
359 00:44:47.070 ⇒ 00:44:50.019 Adam Jones (EY): You know what I mean? And, like, bosses that…
360 00:44:50.620 ⇒ 00:44:56.220 Adam Jones (EY): Maybe some of their vision’s correct, but, like, some of their vision’s incorrect, and they don’t listen.
361 00:44:56.340 ⇒ 00:45:09.380 Adam Jones (EY): So it’s like, if you want that freedom, if you want to push the boundaries, I told him, I was like, one, you gotta quit, but two, like, find enough just to, like, replace this revenue, right? So that you can have freedom of maneuver. I always, you know, thought, like.
362 00:45:09.580 ⇒ 00:45:25.900 Adam Jones (EY): you can create a consulting company. I think that’s, like, you know, of course. Of course, we could, like, Clarence is a… is a, you know, top, absolute top-shelf consultant. With that being said, though, you know.
363 00:45:26.070 ⇒ 00:45:32.010 Adam Jones (EY): The allure of product and actually creating something that’s exponential
364 00:45:32.150 ⇒ 00:45:46.729 Adam Jones (EY): I mean, that’s not going to go away, and as… it’s almost like a byproduct of your consulting company that you guys created an exponential piece of technology. So now, I think you guys are…
365 00:45:47.040 ⇒ 00:45:55.430 Adam Jones (EY): You gotta go into bunker mode, and you gotta figure out, like, what do you do? How do you position this? Where do you go? Because the window’s open, but it doesn’t stay open forever.
366 00:45:55.570 ⇒ 00:46:08.079 Clarence Stone: Yeah, no, I was similar to you in that, like, I was working in software most of my career, and I did this, and my team was always… because we’ve always built things internally that my team is like, oh my god, awesome, like, let’s go spin this out. I’m like, look.
367 00:46:08.080 ⇒ 00:46:15.790 Clarence Stone: This business is hard enough. Running a services business and a product company, I’m not gonna sign up for that. We are this.
368 00:46:15.790 ⇒ 00:46:20.590 Clarence Stone: But, again, like, we are… I think now, given, like, how fast we can move.
369 00:46:20.730 ⇒ 00:46:25.969 Clarence Stone: something… I’m always asking Clarence, like, what is the precedent for this? Like.
370 00:46:26.070 ⇒ 00:46:46.439 Clarence Stone: I don’t want to just be bushy-eyed, whatever, about, like, I’m new to the consulting world, oh, we built this little thing. I’m like, what is… where is the precedent that, like, another company’s done this? What is the manner in which they did? Because there’s a… I learned everything about consulting through reading books, like, I read everything about McKinsey, Deloitte, like, I just read how, like, managing a professional services firm, like.
371 00:46:46.440 ⇒ 00:46:55.289 Clarence Stone: I learned what the canon was, and then I’m like, okay, how did we get here? And then I saw… I don’t like when things are novel, because I don’t believe it, really.
372 00:46:55.290 ⇒ 00:46:58.100 Clarence Stone: I really challenge that. Like, LLM, I think.
373 00:46:58.100 ⇒ 00:47:03.750 Clarence Stone: I think there’s some technology here that’s really novel, but there’s a lot about this that has been done before, and I…
374 00:47:03.750 ⇒ 00:47:08.689 Adam Jones (EY): Like, language models are not new. Large language models and massive compute was a.
375 00:47:08.690 ⇒ 00:47:09.130 Clarence Stone: gas.
376 00:47:09.130 ⇒ 00:47:12.519 Adam Jones (EY): that OpenAI did based on the Google kind of paper, and it…
377 00:47:12.520 ⇒ 00:47:13.809 Clarence Stone: Access to them.
378 00:47:13.810 ⇒ 00:47:27.889 Adam Jones (EY): But then, it’s like, you know, the curve didn’t materialize, because by GPT-5, we were supposed to have, like, you know, AGI. That didn’t happen, so… Yeah. So, and now Scam Altman is, like, completely, you know, trying to just…
379 00:47:27.890 ⇒ 00:47:30.989 Clarence Stone: They’re all scam alt-men, they’re all, they’re all scam alt-men, is what I feel like.
380 00:47:30.990 ⇒ 00:47:44.469 Adam Jones (EY): But, the thing that I would say is, you know, I think Clarence, you know, working in the partnership wealth management aspect of EY, you know, he’s got to see, like, oh, this is how you structure companies, and this is how you…
381 00:47:44.470 ⇒ 00:47:54.700 Adam Jones (EY): you know, have, like, a portfolio company, or a portco, and how you can have multiple, you know, standalone entities with their own, you know.
382 00:47:54.700 ⇒ 00:47:55.220 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
383 00:47:55.220 ⇒ 00:48:08.500 Adam Jones (EY): task and purpose, but they, you know, collaborate and contribute to one another. Like, your consulting company easily is the requirements generator for your product company.
384 00:48:08.500 ⇒ 00:48:12.109 Clarence Stone: It’s the first and easiest customer, the no complaining customer.
385 00:48:12.110 ⇒ 00:48:31.479 Adam Jones (EY): You can separate concerns, but you need to, like, the thing is, you have to have leadership in both places, and, you know, that’s a different level of leadership. You know, Elon Musk is probably the absolute best at that sort of leadership, where what is just enough love for everybody so that everything keeps moving?
386 00:48:31.480 ⇒ 00:48:32.440 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah.
387 00:48:32.440 ⇒ 00:48:39.979 Adam Jones (EY): You know, I think I’m pretty good at it, like, Clarence can tell you, like, I mean, my plate has… is never empty.
388 00:48:40.080 ⇒ 00:48:55.789 Adam Jones (EY): and I have, like, a million things, like, all going on, like, that’s why I say I lead leaders. Like, that’s what that comes back to. Like, that points back to that, because there’s no way you can elevate and retain… Forget about that. Leverage is, you know.
389 00:48:56.110 ⇒ 00:49:13.570 Adam Jones (EY): Yes, yes. Influence. How do you elevate and maintain influence? That’s the… the trick, and the only way you can maintain influence, because that’s what you… that’s what leadership is. It’s… it’s leadership without coercion. You know, I’m not trying to…
390 00:49:13.570 ⇒ 00:49:16.559 Adam Jones (EY): Right? So, you need to be motivated enough
391 00:49:16.890 ⇒ 00:49:23.369 Adam Jones (EY): Given enough direction, given enough support, and given enough, like, protection, like, time and space.
392 00:49:23.500 ⇒ 00:49:29.410 Adam Jones (EY): To change the world, you know? And then you need to do that across, like, all of your different things.
393 00:49:29.610 ⇒ 00:49:42.849 Adam Jones (EY): you know, so separation of concern, but lead leaders, and I think, like, the product side of it, from what I’ve seen so far, you know, that has a lot of legs to it, and it could be the thing that, like.
394 00:49:43.620 ⇒ 00:49:48.169 Adam Jones (EY): It’s an asset. That’s the difference between a consulting company and.
395 00:49:48.170 ⇒ 00:49:48.650 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
396 00:49:48.650 ⇒ 00:50:01.580 Adam Jones (EY): a product. Like, a consulting company is, you know, you eat what you kill. That’s hunting, right? Like, you’re always out hunting, and, you know, if you don’t kill anything, you don’t eat that night. And, like, you do that long enough, you die.
397 00:50:01.580 ⇒ 00:50:09.519 Adam Jones (EY): It’s not an asset. Now, you could say my methodology is an asset, my culture is an asset, you know, my people are assets, like.
398 00:50:09.780 ⇒ 00:50:10.810 Clarence Stone: Rarely.
399 00:50:10.810 ⇒ 00:50:19.520 Adam Jones (EY): Way to, like, spend that all you want, right? Like, sure. My reputation’s an asset, awesome.
400 00:50:19.760 ⇒ 00:50:33.709 Adam Jones (EY): But, it’s not something that’s gonna print money while you’re asleep, and a product will do that. And that’s an asset. And I think you guys, you know, if you’re a consulting company
401 00:50:33.970 ⇒ 00:50:47.430 Adam Jones (EY): Allows you the freedom to create, you know, smaller, you know, companies, like, you know, within your hierarchy, portfolio companies, that you can, like.
402 00:50:47.560 ⇒ 00:51:02.789 Adam Jones (EY): create assets, you know, with minimum… while minimizing your risk, right? Like, that’s the key, is, like, capital allocation, risk reduction, but still putting yourself in an as advantageous of a position as possible.
403 00:51:02.820 ⇒ 00:51:07.820 Adam Jones (EY): Because… and then… and then looking across that and saying, that product, that asset right there…
404 00:51:07.820 ⇒ 00:51:08.310 Clarence Stone: dumb.
405 00:51:08.310 ⇒ 00:51:11.229 Adam Jones (EY): Now it’s the… that’s the one we need to rally.
406 00:51:11.230 ⇒ 00:51:11.730 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
407 00:51:11.730 ⇒ 00:51:22.290 Adam Jones (EY): talent around, and I think you guys have that. I honestly do. But the window’s open and it doesn’t stay open forever, so now it comes back to, like, bunker mode, like, what are you gonna do?
408 00:51:22.550 ⇒ 00:51:34.619 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah. Now, I worked in venture-backed startups my whole career, and I’ve seen people burn a lot of money really, really fast, like, more money than I’ll ever make, and .
409 00:51:34.620 ⇒ 00:51:36.579 Adam Jones (EY): Don’t worry about that, man, I think you’re gonna be high.
410 00:51:36.580 ⇒ 00:51:39.490 Clarence Stone: I appreciate it. And that’s why the cash…
411 00:51:39.490 ⇒ 00:51:41.549 Adam Jones (EY): I remember your boy in Pittsburgh, alright?
412 00:51:41.550 ⇒ 00:51:44.210 Clarence Stone: I got.
413 00:51:44.210 ⇒ 00:51:48.520 Adam Jones (EY): I got connections at Carnegie Mellon, it’s an okay AI school, I don’t know if you.
414 00:51:48.520 ⇒ 00:51:54.189 Clarence Stone: I just get in. They denied me, but, you know, it’s okay. I was still a fan. Great school.
415 00:51:54.190 ⇒ 00:52:13.249 Adam Jones (EY): You know, so anyway, Chance, I do have to drop. I mean, it’s been a pleasure talking. I think this is super exciting. I’d like to figure out how we could bring Brainforge on for this project that I’m doing at EY. Clarence and I have been talking about that. I’m trying to position you guys
416 00:52:13.290 ⇒ 00:52:23.030 Adam Jones (EY): Because, like, I need that… Just-in-time, relevant, accurate context.
417 00:52:23.390 ⇒ 00:52:36.390 Adam Jones (EY): I… I did have a conversation yesterday, as an aside, Clarence, with, Microsoft. So I got… Microsoft is investing, a few hundred hours into my project, and they’re just giving me, like.
418 00:52:36.390 ⇒ 00:52:36.910 Clarence Stone: Right.
419 00:52:36.910 ⇒ 00:52:42.480 Adam Jones (EY): you know, architects and things like that. But…
420 00:52:42.910 ⇒ 00:52:45.879 Adam Jones (EY): you know, I would like to, like, kind of…
421 00:52:46.090 ⇒ 00:52:58.269 Adam Jones (EY): figure out how we can meet in the middle. Like, Microsoft can make that investment, you guys can’t. Got it. That’s cool. Microsoft has its product in perspective, but I also would like to have that kind of scrappy startup, you know.
422 00:52:58.270 ⇒ 00:52:59.180 Clarence Stone: Someone, you gotta drive.
423 00:52:59.180 ⇒ 00:52:59.650 Adam Jones (EY): Not even yet.
424 00:52:59.650 ⇒ 00:53:19.029 Clarence Stone: So, Adam, in UTAM, you have this middle ground where he’s not as opinionated as I am on tech stacks and approaches, so, like, I think, you know, the Brainforge proposition is that you are also getting his time and his lead engineers that are going to give you, like, a more comprehensive view of that. Data’s not my strong suit.
425 00:53:19.030 ⇒ 00:53:23.659 Clarence Stone: Right? So, like, my impressions of Microsoft are mine and mine alone.
426 00:53:24.090 ⇒ 00:53:25.429 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, no, I gotta tell you, too.
427 00:53:25.430 ⇒ 00:53:27.869 Clarence Stone: But they forgot to work.
428 00:53:27.870 ⇒ 00:53:30.000 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, that’s where I’m just like, I made a.
429 00:53:30.000 ⇒ 00:53:36.250 Clarence Stone: For me, it’s out… for me, it’s outcome, and we… and there’s plenty of ways to get there, depending on…
430 00:53:36.780 ⇒ 00:53:38.360 Adam Jones (EY): Exactly, that’s exactly right.
431 00:53:38.360 ⇒ 00:53:45.949 Clarence Stone: Yeah, time, budget, and other constraints, you know? And so, we’ve done it… we’ve done it for nothing, we’ve done it with a lot of money.
432 00:53:46.200 ⇒ 00:53:47.630 Adam Jones (EY): Let’s do it for nothing.
433 00:53:47.720 ⇒ 00:54:03.869 Clarence Stone: Outcome… outcome is what matters, and speed for you to be able to prove that first, like, thing, so that the leap is easy, right? Like, that’s the thing, is that you don’t want… it’s 6 months to get to something where you see the magic. For me, it doesn’t make… I don’t know, I don’t… we don’t think like that. And so, like…
434 00:54:04.020 ⇒ 00:54:08.330 Clarence Stone: I’ll… yeah, would be… would be happy to be helpful however I can.
435 00:54:08.690 ⇒ 00:54:11.660 Adam Jones (EY): Awesome. Clarence, I’ll,
436 00:54:12.080 ⇒ 00:54:17.440 Adam Jones (EY): Oh, I mean, I’m pushing on it now, so I’ll let you… we’ll see how it plays out.
437 00:54:18.090 ⇒ 00:54:20.110 Clarence Stone: Cool, let us know if you need anything from us.
438 00:54:20.910 ⇒ 00:54:21.399 Adam Jones (EY): Will do.
439 00:54:21.400 ⇒ 00:54:23.620 Clarence Stone: Your Mac Minis are coming next week.
440 00:54:24.650 ⇒ 00:54:25.300 Adam Jones (EY): I’m excited.
441 00:54:25.300 ⇒ 00:54:27.589 Clarence Stone: So, you should get it the week after, because I…
442 00:54:27.590 ⇒ 00:54:29.210 Adam Jones (EY): I’m very, very excited about that.
443 00:54:29.210 ⇒ 00:54:30.349 Clarence Stone: 3rd or 4th, yeah.
444 00:54:30.720 ⇒ 00:54:36.549 Adam Jones (EY): I got, like, a million ideas, and I want to share them with you. Like, a couple research ideas I want to do,
445 00:54:37.940 ⇒ 00:54:39.400 Adam Jones (EY): Yeah, and then…
446 00:54:39.610 ⇒ 00:54:45.279 Adam Jones (EY): I haven’t really thought about, like, any business I want to create yet, but I have a couple research things I want to spin up.
447 00:54:45.530 ⇒ 00:54:47.499 Clarence Stone: Oh, I’ll play your fun golf game.
448 00:54:47.890 ⇒ 00:54:51.280 Adam Jones (EY): I do, that is one I wanted… yeah, that is one. Yeah, that’s one.
449 00:54:51.730 ⇒ 00:55:00.040 Clarence Stone: So our friend Ian, he’s a… he used to be a professional golfer, right? Yeah, he used to be a, like, an amateur, basically almost went pro.
450 00:55:00.190 ⇒ 00:55:01.820 Adam Jones (EY): Went into insurance.
451 00:55:01.830 ⇒ 00:55:14.489 Clarence Stone: was, like, a… now runs his own brokerage. So, Ian could probably give you some… some pointers on if it works well or not. Yeah, yeah. Oh, actually, yeah, Ian spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh, actually.
452 00:55:14.490 ⇒ 00:55:14.980 Adam Jones (EY): Brilliant.
453 00:55:15.340 ⇒ 00:55:21.089 Clarence Stone: Yeah, he’s, he did a lot of some music stuff there, and yeah.
454 00:55:21.890 ⇒ 00:55:28.029 Adam Jones (EY): Very cool. Alright, well, that sounds like, divine, you know, direction there, so…
455 00:55:28.030 ⇒ 00:55:28.850 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah.
456 00:55:28.850 ⇒ 00:55:30.429 Adam Jones (EY): Let’s stay in contact, guys.
457 00:55:30.430 ⇒ 00:55:31.820 Clarence Stone: Definitely. Thanks, Adam.
458 00:55:31.820 ⇒ 00:55:33.040 Adam Jones (EY): Alright guys, be well. Bye.
459 00:55:33.160 ⇒ 00:55:34.000 Clarence Stone: Thanks.