Meeting Title: Brainforge Recruitment Handoff Date: 2026-02-23 Meeting participants: Kaela Gallagher, Uttam Kumaran, Rico Rejoso
WEBVTT
1 00:01:00.820 ⇒ 00:01:01.900 Kaela Gallagher: Hey, hey!
2 00:01:01.900 ⇒ 00:01:02.940 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
3 00:01:03.230 ⇒ 00:01:04.410 Kaela Gallagher: How’s it going?
4 00:01:04.580 ⇒ 00:01:05.880 Uttam Kumaran: Good, how are you?
5 00:01:06.040 ⇒ 00:01:07.160 Kaela Gallagher: Great.
6 00:01:07.630 ⇒ 00:01:08.949 Kaela Gallagher: Happy Monday!
7 00:01:09.260 ⇒ 00:01:18.540 Uttam Kumaran: Happy Monday! Things are going well. There’s a lot of movement in the company. I’ve been talking about, like, us getting, someone to lead recruitment for…
8 00:01:18.730 ⇒ 00:01:21.580 Uttam Kumaran: 2 months now, and I’m super, super pumped.
9 00:01:21.710 ⇒ 00:01:25.620 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like we have things in an okay…
10 00:01:25.730 ⇒ 00:01:31.639 Uttam Kumaran: We have candidates that are getting the end of pipeline, we have candidates that are applying, like, I think the one job that
11 00:01:31.840 ⇒ 00:01:35.149 Uttam Kumaran: We at least tried to take off your thing as, like, people want to work here.
12 00:01:35.500 ⇒ 00:01:35.820 Kaela Gallagher: Yes.
13 00:01:35.820 ⇒ 00:01:42.219 Uttam Kumaran: So, at least that’s one thing, you don’t have to really, like… we posted one thing, and we got, like, 200 people applying, so…
14 00:01:42.460 ⇒ 00:01:57.039 Uttam Kumaran: at least, like, that’s working, whatever that is, but… Amazing. No, I’m super, super excited to chat. So, Enrico has been really, I think, leading a lot of it, and so I’m sure he’s also excited just to get some… to get some help, and…
15 00:01:57.170 ⇒ 00:02:02.739 Uttam Kumaran: And, you know, I think both of us are pumped to just see how it’s actually supposed to be done, so…
16 00:02:02.740 ⇒ 00:02:16.099 Kaela Gallagher: Well, I… I’m really excited. I got to connect with Rico this morning, and he started giving me, like, a little tour of things, and obviously we have the handoff document and everything as well. So, yeah, excited to… to get rolling.
17 00:02:17.150 ⇒ 00:02:32.130 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. So yeah, I mean, Rico, I can let you take this however you want, or yeah, if you guys already connected, anything, really, for me, I just want to make sure that I can answer any questions, or if there’s strategy questions, or anything that I can be helpful for. Yeah.
18 00:02:33.920 ⇒ 00:02:34.910 Rico Rejoso: Yeah,
19 00:02:35.020 ⇒ 00:02:52.539 Rico Rejoso: So yeah, we had this, onboarding earlier, today to also, you know, get Kayla familiarized on how we onboard, new folks, into Brainforge, and also just a quick, run-through with the hiring and… hiring and recruitment Notion page that we already built.
20 00:02:52.630 ⇒ 00:03:10.360 Rico Rejoso: And have her explore some of it as well, with me leading her on what the process is that we’re working on right now, from us sending the today’s scheduled interview, from how the pipeline goes, the statuses that we have, and also some of the documentations that we’ve already created on that Notion page. So, also excited to see if
21 00:03:10.360 ⇒ 00:03:19.050 Rico Rejoso: Kayla, if you have any questions so far in regards to that, I mean, we want to also take in our stakeholders’ perspective on how the recruitment goes
22 00:03:19.290 ⇒ 00:03:26.340 Rico Rejoso: before we have you, here in Brain Forge. So we can clarify things up as well, and, you know, suggest any improvements on that process.
23 00:03:27.810 ⇒ 00:03:38.749 Kaela Gallagher: Awesome. Yeah, yeah, I’ve gotten to take, like, a further look at the hiring and recruitment page, and then also the people and culture one, which I’m assuming falls under us as well.
24 00:03:42.080 ⇒ 00:03:45.270 Kaela Gallagher: I have, like, questions about small.
25 00:03:45.270 ⇒ 00:03:45.760 Uttam Kumaran: Please!
26 00:03:45.760 ⇒ 00:03:53.549 Kaela Gallagher: Like, I don’t want to… Yeah, hit anything. Anything. I literally have, like, lists of questions for each of you, so we can, like, totally go over.
27 00:03:53.550 ⇒ 00:04:03.440 Uttam Kumaran: Oh my gosh, yeah, oh, that’s better, that’s better than most folks. I’m usually, like, begging people to ask. So yeah, I can answer anything, no matter how small. I will tell you if we’ve thought about it or not.
28 00:04:03.440 ⇒ 00:04:19.859 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool. Yeah, I… so, the past week, I was able to kind of start setting up all of my, accounts and everything, and so, where I’m at right now is I’ve… I’ve read through most of the information, I’ve gotten access to most things.
29 00:04:19.950 ⇒ 00:04:34.689 Kaela Gallagher: And just have some questions about, like, some details, and I guess, like, Utam, on your side, just would love to kind of outline what my priorities should be, you know, like, week one, month one, and kind of moving forward, so I have…
30 00:04:34.730 ⇒ 00:04:42.790 Kaela Gallagher: An idea of where you want me to kind of prioritize, first, but, yeah, I guess, like.
31 00:04:42.990 ⇒ 00:04:51.490 Kaela Gallagher: starting off, in terms of our pipeline that’s, like, most pressing, I would say, like, people that we have currently in the interview stages.
32 00:04:51.620 ⇒ 00:05:01.010 Kaela Gallagher: Looks like, from the dashboard, we have two people in final rounds right now, and I’ve noticed one of them is scheduled for, like, over a month.
33 00:05:01.130 ⇒ 00:05:03.350 Kaela Gallagher: out. I’m curious.
34 00:05:03.680 ⇒ 00:05:07.910 Kaela Gallagher: Like, why the final round is taking place so far from now.
35 00:05:08.690 ⇒ 00:05:09.610 Rico Rejoso: Yep, I can answer that.
36 00:05:09.610 ⇒ 00:05:11.130 Kaela Gallagher: for Topeka.
37 00:05:11.490 ⇒ 00:05:12.160 Rico Rejoso: Yeah.
38 00:05:12.530 ⇒ 00:05:32.090 Rico Rejoso: I also received the email earlier today that responded to that. I also informed Deepika that… I mean, I didn’t inform her, but the reason behind that is because, that is based off everyone’s availability on their calendar. So, I set up their default booking links and their preferred availability, or let’s say, window for equipment and doing interviews, and I think
39 00:05:32.090 ⇒ 00:05:35.460 Rico Rejoso: That date was basically just the available one,
40 00:05:35.460 ⇒ 00:05:37.990 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, because it combined all their calendars together?
41 00:05:38.110 ⇒ 00:05:39.400 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, so…
42 00:05:39.920 ⇒ 00:05:49.350 Uttam Kumaran: Probably we… so, we’re using this tool called Default. They’re actually a client of ours, and so we get the tool for free. But,
43 00:05:49.820 ⇒ 00:06:01.240 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s probably combining their calendars, and most likely Robert, his calendar’s, like, blocked, because he will literally just ship things as he’s needed, and so the automated availability probably gave her March.
44 00:06:01.240 ⇒ 00:06:01.940 Kaela Gallagher: Wow.
45 00:06:01.940 ⇒ 00:06:06.190 Uttam Kumaran: When we should just… we should just manually find a slot for her, probably.
46 00:06:06.940 ⇒ 00:06:11.219 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Probably another… another good thing for us to think about is, like, how do we…
47 00:06:11.910 ⇒ 00:06:16.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, because that’s… this is the only interview where there’s multiple people.
48 00:06:16.280 ⇒ 00:06:18.460 Kaela Gallagher: As of now, so…
49 00:06:18.460 ⇒ 00:06:23.290 Uttam Kumaran: This is, like, maybe a unique thing that maybe we just have to manually schedule.
50 00:06:24.650 ⇒ 00:06:37.559 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, I mean, obviously it’s good to have things automated when possible, but then, yeah, seeing, like, a final round interview a month away, I would worry that the candidate is gonna get other offers in the meantime.
51 00:06:37.740 ⇒ 00:06:46.670 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool. And then, going into, like, people that we have in first rounds and second rounds, I was clicking into some of these pages, and…
52 00:06:46.900 ⇒ 00:06:54.430 Kaela Gallagher: like, the notes. For example, like, we have somebody interviewing today, Umair.
53 00:06:54.640 ⇒ 00:07:03.429 Kaela Gallagher: Who’s in second rounds, but the meeting notes for the first round say that the decision was to pass. I’m curious why…
54 00:07:03.950 ⇒ 00:07:11.419 Kaela Gallagher: like, I noticed this on a few different candidate profiles, like, why we would have decided to, I guess, schedule another round.
55 00:07:14.990 ⇒ 00:07:27.160 Rico Rejoso: That’s the process that we have right now, like, we have the initial interview, second interview, final interview. So, after the initial interview, we proceed with the second person online that, let’s say for… this is for,
56 00:07:27.350 ⇒ 00:07:37.280 Rico Rejoso: data, right? So we have Demi, who’s conducting the second interview, which is more of a role-focused interview. The initial interview, then, we intend that, like, for,
57 00:07:37.340 ⇒ 00:07:57.130 Rico Rejoso: I mean, the interviewer for those are, like, folks that have been with Brain Forge for so long, and, they, their goal is to see if that person or the candidate that we have is an ideal person that we wanted to work with Brain Forge. And the second process, or the second step, would be, like, a role-focused interview that’s determined their capabilities when it comes to the role that they are applying for.
58 00:07:58.830 ⇒ 00:08:03.950 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess the… probably the point being is that, like, we don’t DQ until second round.
59 00:08:04.610 ⇒ 00:08:06.570 Uttam Kumaran: Is that basically it, Rico?
60 00:08:07.010 ⇒ 00:08:11.640 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, I mean, the main criteria for the first round are, like, a couple communications,
61 00:08:11.770 ⇒ 00:08:22.130 Rico Rejoso: Executive and leadership and stuff, and the second round are most likely, more of skills and, experiences from the candidates.
62 00:08:22.410 ⇒ 00:08:27.509 Uttam Kumaran: So I guess, looking at the notes for Umair, Awisha’s decision was passed.
63 00:08:27.920 ⇒ 00:08:31.110 Uttam Kumaran: But he’s moving on to the second round. I guess that’s the question.
64 00:08:36.830 ⇒ 00:08:39.660 Rico Rejoso: Yeah, he passed for the initial interview.
65 00:08:39.929 ⇒ 00:08:43.739 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, pass as in he… he moved forward.
66 00:08:43.739 ⇒ 00:08:45.569 Rico Rejoso: Okay. Okay, okay, great, good.
67 00:08:45.570 ⇒ 00:08:47.910 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, so we have a pass or a fail.
68 00:08:47.910 ⇒ 00:08:49.110 Rico Rejoso: Unbelievable, yeah.
69 00:08:50.680 ⇒ 00:08:54.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, well, it’s… yeah, exactly. So, pass as in, like, pass forward.
70 00:08:54.930 ⇒ 00:08:55.440 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
71 00:08:55.440 ⇒ 00:08:56.839 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, I was also confused.
72 00:08:57.080 ⇒ 00:09:00.319 Kaela Gallagher: I was, like, passing on the candidate, but he’s interviewing, what’s going on?
73 00:09:00.320 ⇒ 00:09:02.769 Uttam Kumaran: No, so yeah, we basically… so…
74 00:09:03.160 ⇒ 00:09:06.869 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve kind of tried to structure… kind of the main advancement we made
75 00:09:07.060 ⇒ 00:09:21.560 Uttam Kumaran: Is to start using these, like, the notes really heavily. So, typically, I think we’re either using AI to sort of build some of this, and then the interviewer sort of writes pieces of it, forgot what the exact reason is, but yes, it’s pass or fail.
76 00:09:21.870 ⇒ 00:09:27.519 Uttam Kumaran: And then you’ll see Brainforge chat. Occasionally, people will talk to me or Robert initially.
77 00:09:27.740 ⇒ 00:09:42.820 Uttam Kumaran: either to build hype, or I’m like, hey, this is a great candidate, I always wanted, like, to say hi to me, and then be like, I’ll see you at the end, kind of deal. Some of the candidates, they just go straight into the pipeline, like, you know, so I pick… I pick off people to call, if possible.
78 00:09:43.280 ⇒ 00:09:44.800 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay.
79 00:09:45.100 ⇒ 00:09:55.770 Kaela Gallagher: like, people… you watch their Loom review, for example, and identify them as, like, super high potential, and then I want to talk to them first, sort of thing.
80 00:09:55.770 ⇒ 00:10:00.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, or it’s, like, people in my network that, like.
81 00:10:00.800 ⇒ 00:10:05.460 Uttam Kumaran: I talk to first, and then they go through the loom process, or they skip the loom process.
82 00:10:05.460 ⇒ 00:10:05.870 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
83 00:10:05.870 ⇒ 00:10:23.039 Uttam Kumaran: like, sometimes we’re going after candidates kind of, like, off-market, like, I just have, like, someone refer someone to me. Of course, like, if I just say, go submit an app, they’re gonna be like, yo, I just want to talk to you to learn about the role. But I use it as, like, I just super, super sell us, so it… it typically
84 00:10:23.210 ⇒ 00:10:31.839 Uttam Kumaran: people immediately, like, one, I find out if this person actually, like, wants to work here. If they do, then I sort of try to sell, and then they move into the process.
85 00:10:31.970 ⇒ 00:10:36.120 Uttam Kumaran: We’re trying as much to leverage the Loom reviews.
86 00:10:36.600 ⇒ 00:10:42.399 Uttam Kumaran: possible, unless I call a candidate, I’m like, this person’s really, really great, they can just move straight to the first round.
87 00:10:42.460 ⇒ 00:11:01.249 Uttam Kumaran: because we, as you know, like, you can get… tend to get a really high volume if we post links different places. The Loom has been really, really effective, not only, like, reducing spam, but also it’s a good measure of, like, can a candidate work in, like, a remote async environment, get their thoughts on a piece of paper before talking into a camera?
88 00:11:01.340 ⇒ 00:11:08.350 Uttam Kumaran: It’s, like, pretty good interviews, like, the first round, we thought. Yeah. But, like, again, like, up for… up for debate.
89 00:11:08.630 ⇒ 00:11:23.249 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Yeah, I was clicking through, like, some of the applications we currently have posted on the career site, and then when it populates, it has you kind of fill out a few different questions, depending if it’s, like, a data or an AI role.
90 00:11:23.260 ⇒ 00:11:30.910 Kaela Gallagher: And then it says, like, record your answers to these questions via Loom, but I didn’t see, like, a link for Loom. Is that something.
91 00:11:30.910 ⇒ 00:11:33.380 Uttam Kumaran: You just have to go install Loom on your own, basically.
92 00:11:33.380 ⇒ 00:11:33.980 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
93 00:11:34.180 ⇒ 00:11:34.680 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
94 00:11:35.360 ⇒ 00:11:37.699 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, got it. Alright, cool.
95 00:11:37.970 ⇒ 00:11:45.060 Uttam Kumaran: Again, it’s just, like, what… basically, it came out of, like, it’s just me and Rico, like, interviewing, like, hundreds of people, like, what is the easiest way to just, like.
96 00:11:45.300 ⇒ 00:11:50.880 Uttam Kumaran: Because I can’t sit and review… it’s really hard to look at resumes, and then also we get a lot of spam, and so I’m like.
97 00:11:51.050 ⇒ 00:11:52.409 Uttam Kumaran: If I get a loom and, like.
98 00:11:52.730 ⇒ 00:12:03.780 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve just played on, like, 2X. Immediately, I’m, like, really, really… I can see whether someone’s got it, and all it is, is just, like, can they move to the next round? It’s a really good, like, qualification step, we felt like.
99 00:12:04.110 ⇒ 00:12:06.620 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay.
100 00:12:07.260 ⇒ 00:12:14.729 Kaela Gallagher: I guess my question for you would be, can I start sitting in on some of these interviews? Like, even just.
101 00:12:14.730 ⇒ 00:12:15.579 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.
102 00:12:15.580 ⇒ 00:12:17.419 Kaela Gallagher: camera off, like, I… I’m just.
103 00:12:17.420 ⇒ 00:12:20.530 Uttam Kumaran: Totally, and a lot of them have been recorded already.
104 00:12:20.830 ⇒ 00:12:22.050 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so… Okay.
105 00:12:22.190 ⇒ 00:12:27.259 Uttam Kumaran: We have a… we have… I think all of them should be in the platform, recorded.
106 00:12:27.260 ⇒ 00:12:27.760 Rico Rejoso: there.
107 00:12:27.990 ⇒ 00:12:31.850 Uttam Kumaran: But certainly, yeah, you’re more than welcome.
108 00:12:32.110 ⇒ 00:12:44.259 Uttam Kumaran: to sit in on… on any of them. I would say, if anything, you could just coordinate with whoever’s doing the interview. I mean, it’s everyone at Brainforge, like, everybody… everybody also on the recruiting panel, is, like, been here for…
109 00:12:44.530 ⇒ 00:12:45.240 Kaela Gallagher: Wow. Like…
110 00:12:45.240 ⇒ 00:12:49.580 Uttam Kumaran: either been here for a while, or is, like, senior. So, like, all of them are…
111 00:12:49.810 ⇒ 00:12:52.940 Uttam Kumaran: great, so, like, they… I’m sure they would be happy to have someone.
112 00:12:53.400 ⇒ 00:12:54.100 Uttam Kumaran: Hanging out.
113 00:12:54.670 ⇒ 00:13:01.020 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, yeah, I would love to sit in… yeah, I’d love to sit in on interviews, kind of learn how that’s going, and then also…
114 00:13:01.120 ⇒ 00:13:14.170 Kaela Gallagher: I mean, eventually I’d love to do one-on-ones with everybody in the company, but, starting off, definitely people who are, like, interviewing and part of our hiring process, like, would love to kind of pick everyone’s brains on
115 00:13:14.630 ⇒ 00:13:17.869 Kaela Gallagher: Where our hiring is currently at, and where we can go.
116 00:13:17.870 ⇒ 00:13:28.020 Uttam Kumaran: No, you should call… you should call every single one of them. All of them are gonna have opinions. They all went through a version of a process, which may have either been I called them on the phone and said.
117 00:13:28.170 ⇒ 00:13:44.600 Uttam Kumaran: I would, like, the first time I talked to him, I was like, at the end of the 30-minute call, I was like, you can come work for us. Or it’s something, like, Greg went through a little bit more formal process than that. So everybody you call will have an interesting story about how they got to work here. But ideally, you should hear that
118 00:13:44.870 ⇒ 00:13:55.849 Uttam Kumaran: depending on how, how recent they’ve been hired, their process should be… should have been more structured. But there are some people who I just DM’d on Slack one day and was like, yo, come work for us, so…
119 00:13:56.390 ⇒ 00:13:58.590 Uttam Kumaran: Not anymore, not that often anymore.
120 00:13:58.760 ⇒ 00:14:11.769 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, cool. Okay, yeah, I’ll start arranging one-on-ones with everybody in the hiring process. I’ll start sitting in on interviews as well, and then,
121 00:14:12.550 ⇒ 00:14:20.600 Kaela Gallagher: Curious, like, do you have a pro- because Rico mentioned to me you’re part of reviewing Loom videos right now. Are you the only one that’s reviewing them?
122 00:14:21.140 ⇒ 00:14:25.919 Uttam Kumaran: E… I am the only one. Ki- I think it’s…
123 00:14:26.050 ⇒ 00:14:32.200 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, this is where, like, I’ve started to give away the pieces that were most limiting.
124 00:14:32.440 ⇒ 00:14:36.759 Uttam Kumaran: And reviewing Loom is really easy for me, because I can do it literally anywhere, and…
125 00:14:37.160 ⇒ 00:14:42.559 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just looking for a couple of things. So, it’s not like… I would say in terms of priorities, it’s…
126 00:14:42.880 ⇒ 00:14:47.730 Uttam Kumaran: I could… you could totally… I could… would love to hand that to you if you’re… if you’re comfortable, or we do a couple…
127 00:14:47.830 ⇒ 00:14:50.869 Uttam Kumaran: ourselves, and then I’m… I basically, at that point, am…
128 00:14:51.160 ⇒ 00:14:54.360 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of only in the beginning and the end, really.
129 00:14:54.360 ⇒ 00:15:00.030 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, that was gonna be kind of my next question for you, is like, I guess, what part of…
130 00:15:00.200 ⇒ 00:15:08.060 Kaela Gallagher: hiring right now is taking the most of your time, and what part of that can I, like, take off your plate? So I guess, yeah, later would be a good place to start.
131 00:15:08.430 ⇒ 00:15:24.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I would say that’s, like, if… for me, like, if we think about it, like, what is super, what takes a lot of effort, and what is high priority? The loom actually doesn’t take me a lot of effort, so what actually is taking a lot of time is getting… is sourcing.
132 00:15:24.220 ⇒ 00:15:25.690 Uttam Kumaran: And getting candidates.
133 00:15:25.980 ⇒ 00:15:31.110 Uttam Kumaran: And so, honestly, if I could, like, give anything, I would say focus
134 00:15:31.430 ⇒ 00:15:37.539 Uttam Kumaran: as much of your time there. And then second is having a great candidate experience.
135 00:15:37.710 ⇒ 00:15:50.960 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And the people that we identify as great, how do we drive them towards the end? The people that we DQ, how do we DQ faster? I wouldn’t… the Loom process, me reviewing Ricoh, just sends me that, and I…
136 00:15:51.540 ⇒ 00:15:56.040 Uttam Kumaran: I… I just, like, I’m like, bug me until I do that, so I… it typically doesn’t take me that much time.
137 00:15:56.310 ⇒ 00:16:00.890 Uttam Kumaran: Finding, like, deciding on, like, how are we sourcing candidates? What is the messaging?
138 00:16:01.200 ⇒ 00:16:06.520 Uttam Kumaran: And then working with marketing to be like, hey, we need to post once every two weeks about our things, and like…
139 00:16:06.650 ⇒ 00:16:11.780 Uttam Kumaran: whatever, whatever. I would say… Getting into that, cause usually…
140 00:16:12.350 ⇒ 00:16:16.630 Uttam Kumaran: When we’ve tried to source, a lot of the sourcing has come just from my network.
141 00:16:17.030 ⇒ 00:16:17.430 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
142 00:16:17.430 ⇒ 00:16:19.239 Uttam Kumaran: Or me scrounging around.
143 00:16:19.750 ⇒ 00:16:23.550 Uttam Kumaran: or me pushing marketing to post. So I would like to kind of hand…
144 00:16:24.450 ⇒ 00:16:34.729 Uttam Kumaran: parts of that off, and I can continue to do what I do, which is just, like, find candidates, but, like, I want a more structured process towards sourcing and building our actual pipeline.
145 00:16:35.140 ⇒ 00:16:35.580 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
146 00:16:35.580 ⇒ 00:16:38.820 Uttam Kumaran: It’s probably the thing that’s most at risk now.
147 00:16:39.030 ⇒ 00:16:40.120 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
148 00:16:40.230 ⇒ 00:16:40.780 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
149 00:16:40.780 ⇒ 00:16:46.500 Kaela Gallagher: Do you feel like your pipeline has kind of dried up now that you made the post, you got the applicants, and you’ve worked through them?
150 00:16:49.030 ⇒ 00:16:57.120 Uttam Kumaran: We still have some people, I think, that are in my inbox that we haven’t worked through, but yeah, I mean, I think generally, we need to keep, like, a heartbeat on sourcing.
151 00:16:57.530 ⇒ 00:16:57.900 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
152 00:16:57.900 ⇒ 00:17:00.409 Uttam Kumaran: So, I… I think there’s no…
153 00:17:01.040 ⇒ 00:17:11.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I would say, like, it’s drying up. Like, I think we’re gonna… out of the 100 or 200 that we got, we’re gonna end up with, like, probably 2 or 3 people, I expect, hired.
154 00:17:11.920 ⇒ 00:17:19.050 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, that’s only for one role. Like, we only got people for data, we didn’t get… we didn’t post about our AI roles.
155 00:17:19.290 ⇒ 00:17:24.940 Uttam Kumaran: And we also… doesn’t seem like we’re gonna get anybody for our CSO role, which is our… really, like, the…
156 00:17:25.069 ⇒ 00:17:30.259 Uttam Kumaran: one of the most important roles. One way of thinking about it, too, is, like,
157 00:17:31.520 ⇒ 00:17:36.869 Uttam Kumaran: like, right now, if you look at, kind of, our staffing, and this is sort of, like, I think.
158 00:17:37.700 ⇒ 00:17:52.589 Uttam Kumaran: it’s honestly where, probably, now that you’re gonna be on recruiting, probably where Rico will be kind of helping me a little bit more, is, like, if you look at, like, where our current staffing is for our current active clients, so this is a little bit, like, colorful, but, like.
159 00:17:52.790 ⇒ 00:17:57.950 Uttam Kumaran: tells a story. Anything that’s, purple is me or Robert.
160 00:17:58.090 ⇒ 00:18:04.929 Uttam Kumaran: And so you can see that, like, it’s probably, like, 20% or 30% purple. So a really simple way is, like.
161 00:18:05.230 ⇒ 00:18:07.879 Uttam Kumaran: Our job is to return that to zero.
162 00:18:08.290 ⇒ 00:18:09.100 Kaela Gallagher: Like.
163 00:18:09.100 ⇒ 00:18:13.690 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning, we don’t want Utsama Robert to have to be doing client work.
164 00:18:14.160 ⇒ 00:18:25.370 Uttam Kumaran: And we need to be able to pass that to other folks. That doesn’t mean we won’t be, and that doesn’t mean we may not achieve, like, a 0%, right? Like, there’s still some clients we’re helping out on, but, like, I think that’s a good North Star.
165 00:18:25.660 ⇒ 00:18:31.259 Uttam Kumaran: So there are these roles, like, we don’t have client success owners on the team that could do this right now.
166 00:18:31.720 ⇒ 00:18:35.329 Kaela Gallagher: Got it. Additionally, we have people that are spread thin.
167 00:18:35.330 ⇒ 00:18:41.170 Uttam Kumaran: like, you’ll see Awesha’s name 5 times, right? 6 times. He’s spread thin.
168 00:18:41.280 ⇒ 00:18:44.390 Uttam Kumaran: We only have 3 service leads right now.
169 00:18:45.020 ⇒ 00:18:48.360 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, I think, like, this is a good, like…
170 00:18:49.320 ⇒ 00:18:52.689 Uttam Kumaran: Board to kind of fix on, like, who do we need to staff?
171 00:18:53.030 ⇒ 00:19:01.869 Uttam Kumaran: And then ultimately, it’s like making sure that we have pipeline for those roles. So our first push that we just did was really to support
172 00:19:01.950 ⇒ 00:19:15.450 Uttam Kumaran: like, the engagement planner role and the CSO role, just for the data and strategy service lines. So if you think about, like, a matrix, right? I’m trying to find senior people for data and strategy.
173 00:19:15.670 ⇒ 00:19:18.670 Uttam Kumaran: And I feel like we may end up with, like, one or two of those people.
174 00:19:19.680 ⇒ 00:19:38.680 Uttam Kumaran: Ideally, everybody in the company, when they start with us, they go into this EP category, and once you read the doc, look at the Forging the Future doc, kind of see how our delivery team is structured, but these are sort of the roles that, when you first come on to Brainforge, I’m most likely going to slot you into there, because it’s more of an organizational role within a client engagement.
175 00:19:38.810 ⇒ 00:19:44.880 Uttam Kumaran: Naturally, though, you have the opportunity to sort of move either to, like, client success owner or service lead.
176 00:19:45.070 ⇒ 00:19:51.009 Uttam Kumaran: And a lot of this, again, is laid out, but we’re sort of… this is where, when we shift from just talking about recruiting to, like.
177 00:19:51.120 ⇒ 00:19:52.620 Uttam Kumaran: people nurturing.
178 00:19:52.820 ⇒ 00:20:04.099 Uttam Kumaran: we’re thinking a lot about, okay, when… how does someone grow at Brave Forge? And so on the delivery side, which is really, like, the majority of our staff, right, is gonna be on delivery, we decided to kind of create this, like.
179 00:20:04.220 ⇒ 00:20:08.520 Uttam Kumaran: Leadership structure, where on every client, we have these three.
180 00:20:09.570 ⇒ 00:20:13.830 Uttam Kumaran: And this is the first rung of the leadership ladder on delivery.
181 00:20:14.250 ⇒ 00:20:21.330 Uttam Kumaran: then that you have the ability… this is kind of, like, what probably, like, we need to meet more about, is, like, what happens after this, right? Like…
182 00:20:21.610 ⇒ 00:20:35.539 Uttam Kumaran: And you can think there’s a distance between me, I’m kind of, like, in head of delivery, and then there’s everybody on the delivery team. We created one rump, which is, like, delivery leads, and we have a channel for each of those, I’ll add you, and so these are the people listed.
183 00:20:35.750 ⇒ 00:20:42.440 Uttam Kumaran: There are people, like, who are not on this list that are working on delivery, so they’re just individual contributors, right?
184 00:20:42.580 ⇒ 00:20:49.959 Uttam Kumaran: But one thing we wanted to show is that the growth on the delivery organization has to be through one of these leadership roles.
185 00:20:50.260 ⇒ 00:20:53.940 Uttam Kumaran: service lead, which is closer to, like, a tech lead, or, like, a CTO.
186 00:20:54.210 ⇒ 00:21:01.720 Uttam Kumaran: Engagement Planner, which is closer to, like, a project manager. And CSO, which is closer to, like, an account manager, like, a true client success person.
187 00:21:02.250 ⇒ 00:21:14.189 Uttam Kumaran: The fun thing about Brainforge is all these people are engineers, though. Like, nobody here is doing this job full-time. So this is just their, like, role on a client, in addition to working.
188 00:21:14.630 ⇒ 00:21:28.969 Uttam Kumaran: So one thing for us to think about is, like, our first job is just to staff all the holes here on the first row, right? And make sure we have enough people working. And I can give you the signs between, like, how many, like.
189 00:21:29.020 ⇒ 00:21:41.330 Uttam Kumaran: how many service leads do we need for our current book of business? Like, we can talk through all the, like, you know, like, how many people we need, but, like, that’s the first. The second piece is some of these people are now quickly advancing, like, they’re crushing it.
190 00:21:41.420 ⇒ 00:21:57.350 Uttam Kumaran: what’s… what’s next for them? You know, and we’re thinking about, okay, do we have a CSO role that’s sort of, like, more helpful on the sales side? Do we have, like, an engagement planner who maybe can, like, go to lead all the engagement planners? So that’s probably something we’ll have to decide.
191 00:21:57.910 ⇒ 00:22:03.460 Uttam Kumaran: At some point this quarter, like, what is the next rung of, like, how do people get promoted and make more?
192 00:22:03.940 ⇒ 00:22:08.240 Uttam Kumaran: The first, really, the struggle right now is just having a staff to do all the work.
193 00:22:08.630 ⇒ 00:22:11.870 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah, maybe, like…
194 00:22:12.160 ⇒ 00:22:19.240 Kaela Gallagher: you, Robert, and I, sometime this week, could do kind of, like, a specific talent planning session, and really.
195 00:22:19.240 ⇒ 00:22:19.730 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
196 00:22:19.730 ⇒ 00:22:26.549 Kaela Gallagher: down, exactly what we need to hire for. I know on the BrainForge Career site right now, we have
197 00:22:26.730 ⇒ 00:22:31.520 Kaela Gallagher: 5 rules posted. I’m curious how current you think those are.
198 00:22:32.210 ⇒ 00:22:42.909 Uttam Kumaran: I think they’re pretty current. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I think they’re fairly current. The problem is, like, this structure for CSO, EP, and SL is not as… it’s… it’s a bit confusing if you’re on the outside.
199 00:22:43.000 ⇒ 00:22:54.279 Uttam Kumaran: And so we don’t highlight that as part of our external process. We’re just like, hey, we need someone, a senior product analytics person. But internally, I’m, like, staffing them towards this.
200 00:22:54.740 ⇒ 00:22:58.030 Uttam Kumaran: Like, a specific role on a specific client.
201 00:22:58.520 ⇒ 00:23:16.670 Uttam Kumaran: these are… these are just, like, these are Brainforge-specific, like, delivery structures, right? So that’s also something I’m interested in, like, if your past place had that, because, like, it’s… some of this is not, like, industry standard, the way we organize, you know, and so that’s part of the innovation, but also can be a little bit complex, because
202 00:23:16.720 ⇒ 00:23:19.579 Uttam Kumaran: Like, candidates don’t know anything about, like.
203 00:23:19.650 ⇒ 00:23:22.490 Uttam Kumaran: The structure, and it’s not… it’s not necessarily…
204 00:23:23.220 ⇒ 00:23:27.239 Uttam Kumaran: I talk about it, like, if it’s relevant for the recruiting process, but
205 00:23:27.450 ⇒ 00:23:33.030 Uttam Kumaran: we’re basically saying, can this person come in and fit to this structure? And that’s what we’re looking for.
206 00:23:33.150 ⇒ 00:23:43.010 Uttam Kumaran: Right? It’s not… it’s not… the candidate necessarily doesn’t need to, like, know what a CSO is, because the CSO is a… is a set of traits that allows someone to do that… that role.
207 00:23:43.350 ⇒ 00:23:46.079 Kaela Gallagher: Right, right, but we need to screen for those during the process.
208 00:23:46.080 ⇒ 00:23:48.130 Uttam Kumaran: We are screening for those traits.
209 00:23:48.320 ⇒ 00:23:56.580 Uttam Kumaran: and the… and then I’m based… because also, we have to sort of match how the data industry recruits, which, like, I’m really familiar with, and the data industry recruits for, like.
210 00:23:56.730 ⇒ 00:23:58.290 Uttam Kumaran: Product analytics lead.
211 00:23:59.860 ⇒ 00:24:03.190 Uttam Kumaran: you know, AI engineer. They don’t recruit for, like…
212 00:24:03.190 ⇒ 00:24:04.990 Kaela Gallagher: Title they’re familiar with.
213 00:24:04.990 ⇒ 00:24:13.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, people are like, it’s… yeah, I mean, we… yeah. And we learned the hard way, like, we tried to explain this, it was, like, a total disaster, so… it’s not…
214 00:24:13.910 ⇒ 00:24:17.479 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s just not as… it’s not as important, but…
215 00:24:17.790 ⇒ 00:24:28.559 Uttam Kumaran: we’re gonna take this comp… part of what… why we’re doing this, though, is, like, people typically, engineers, they get rabbit-bulled into a role where they can’t… they can’t exercise some of these soft traits. Client success.
216 00:24:28.560 ⇒ 00:24:41.860 Uttam Kumaran: Like, being able to actually empathize with the client, be camera-facing. Engagement planning, it’s like project management, like, I can keep our linear board and our Gantt chart super organized. Service lead, this is, like, I’m, like, really have a length of technical depth.
217 00:24:41.930 ⇒ 00:24:49.680 Uttam Kumaran: I have the ability to pattern match across different things. I can own a service. Like, I can own the 10 things we do related to data. So those are, like.
218 00:24:50.180 ⇒ 00:25:08.870 Uttam Kumaran: those are things where I’m like, when people come in, they’re usually related to one, and EP is the… it’s kind of like three legs of a stool, but Engagement Planner… the other thing is it builds redundancy. If the CSO is out, then the EP can take on all their tasks, and there’s, like, interdependencies between these three roles.
219 00:25:08.990 ⇒ 00:25:22.079 Uttam Kumaran: And then finally, there’s no need for project managers, like, pure project managers on many of these accounts now, because we’ve split the responsibilities among the engineers, and then I just will… I just pay… we just pay people more, and we give them more upside.
220 00:25:22.220 ⇒ 00:25:24.170 Uttam Kumaran: As a benefit, you know?
221 00:25:25.240 ⇒ 00:25:26.909 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay, okay.
222 00:25:26.910 ⇒ 00:25:43.079 Uttam Kumaran: you kind of hear a little bit of the philosophy, but, like, I think that’s… that’s sort of, like, what… why the structure’s here. But really, I think most important thing is just getting the people to fill these roles. In addition, several of these clients are actively asking us for… to do more for them.
223 00:25:43.240 ⇒ 00:25:45.859 Uttam Kumaran: And as the delivery leader, I cannot
224 00:25:46.050 ⇒ 00:26:05.579 Uttam Kumaran: I cannot fulfill that revenue, so we cannot sell that work. We are selling the work, because I’m like, Kayla’s coming, we’ll figure it out, but, like, that is the… that is the math behind it, is like, if I’m, like, if there… if we are doing really, really well, and so people are asking us, hey, can you help us out more? And I’m like, okay.
225 00:26:05.670 ⇒ 00:26:19.450 Uttam Kumaran: who do we have on… on… who do we have? We don’t… okay, we don’t have an… everybody’s slammed. Who’s coming up? And then immediately the people that come up, I’m like, they’re immediately going. Ideally, we can, like, start to slow that, like, smooth that out, like…
226 00:26:19.450 ⇒ 00:26:19.800 Kaela Gallagher: people aren’.
227 00:26:19.800 ⇒ 00:26:23.070 Uttam Kumaran: onboard, and they maybe have two weeks of, like, figuring out Brainforge.
228 00:26:23.070 ⇒ 00:26:23.630 Kaela Gallagher: Like.
229 00:26:23.630 ⇒ 00:26:35.870 Uttam Kumaran: you ask any of these people, nobody here… everybody that starts working on clients on day one here, it’s like… it’s tough. It’s a tough environment. I mean, all these people are great, and they’re all, like, amazing, but it’s a tough environment, you know, and so…
230 00:26:36.650 ⇒ 00:26:44.329 Uttam Kumaran: I do want, like, us to think about, like, that first 60 days for a new Brainforce team member, and how do we make it really, really smooth.
231 00:26:44.700 ⇒ 00:26:45.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
232 00:26:45.660 ⇒ 00:26:49.899 Kaela Gallagher: That’ll be important for, you know, retention as well.
233 00:26:50.180 ⇒ 00:26:58.599 Kaela Gallagher: Rico was… I asked Rico what he thought the hardest role was to hire for, I guess the ones that you guys are having the most trouble
234 00:26:58.780 ⇒ 00:27:03.850 Kaela Gallagher: filling, and he mentioned data engineers. Would you agree with that?
235 00:27:07.190 ⇒ 00:27:10.060 Uttam Kumaran: Wait, say that one more time? Sorry, my AirPods just died.
236 00:27:10.060 ⇒ 00:27:19.689 Kaela Gallagher: No, you’re good. I asked Rico what he thought the most difficult role to fill was, and he mentioned data engineers. Do you…
237 00:27:20.080 ⇒ 00:27:20.680 Kaela Gallagher: have.
238 00:27:20.680 ⇒ 00:27:21.360 Uttam Kumaran: the same…
239 00:27:21.360 ⇒ 00:27:22.320 Kaela Gallagher: Perspective?
240 00:27:25.680 ⇒ 00:27:31.820 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, finding CSOs are tough across any of our services.
241 00:27:32.040 ⇒ 00:27:40.400 Uttam Kumaran: Because we’re doing the impossible here. We’re finding what a lot of people are telling me they call unicorn candidates, which are engineers that can speak.
242 00:27:40.570 ⇒ 00:27:43.590 Uttam Kumaran: And manage projects, and be client-facing.
243 00:27:43.960 ⇒ 00:27:49.840 Uttam Kumaran: The problem with me is, that’s all I’ve been, and that’s all Robert’s been, and that’s all the people that you see on this list.
244 00:27:50.320 ⇒ 00:27:54.339 Uttam Kumaran: they weren’t hired to be camera-facing and managed, but they have, and so…
245 00:27:55.710 ⇒ 00:28:00.220 Uttam Kumaran: If we were only, like, two… if two of these people moved, and then it would be luck.
246 00:28:00.410 ⇒ 00:28:11.890 Uttam Kumaran: But we have a lot of people that change from just being engineers to now, like, loving the fact that they get to meet clients, push work out, help us sell. So it’s… I don’t think we’re lucky anymore.
247 00:28:12.110 ⇒ 00:28:17.260 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s a transformation, so it’s rare to find engineers
248 00:28:17.970 ⇒ 00:28:24.670 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, at least in what we’ve… based on what we’ve tried to do, engineers that can do this and hit the ground running.
249 00:28:24.840 ⇒ 00:28:32.010 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I feel really confident that we can turn a lot of engineers into these client-facing roles.
250 00:28:32.360 ⇒ 00:28:37.320 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s gonna be harder to find the AI people.
251 00:28:37.810 ⇒ 00:28:42.190 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of like, one, I think the…
252 00:28:42.910 ⇒ 00:29:02.590 Uttam Kumaran: the AI people we have at the company were not AI people when I hired them. Meaning, like, nothing about their resume or their past experience screamed that they could do any of the AI work. I met them and said, you can do AI work, or you’re doing it kind of as a hobby, come do it for me full-time.
253 00:29:03.340 ⇒ 00:29:03.850 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
254 00:29:03.850 ⇒ 00:29:05.679 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… I don’t know how, like, it’s…
255 00:29:05.910 ⇒ 00:29:12.870 Uttam Kumaran: tough. Like, the second piece is, everybody wants to get into AI now, so everybody’s resumes are getting juiced.
256 00:29:13.450 ⇒ 00:29:20.630 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re lying about the stuff that they’re able to do, so… It’s… That, I feel like.
257 00:29:20.990 ⇒ 00:29:25.639 Uttam Kumaran: is gonna be the toughest role, because I’m almost finding people that are doing AI
258 00:29:25.910 ⇒ 00:29:28.779 Uttam Kumaran: In their pre-time, or, like, kind of, like.
259 00:29:28.990 ⇒ 00:29:34.289 Uttam Kumaran: under the wraps at their company, and I’m like, yo, come do this full-time for us.
260 00:29:35.310 ⇒ 00:29:47.479 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s also a brand new role. Like, data and data engineer, analytics engineer, data analysts have been roles for a long time. Even in this, like, modern cloud environment, they’ve been roles for at least 10 years.
261 00:29:47.700 ⇒ 00:29:56.840 Uttam Kumaran: the AI work is not a… it’s not a, like, a… there’s not a lot of precedent for it. So you’re either gonna find people that are trying to go for roles at, like, Facebook or OpenAI,
262 00:29:57.770 ⇒ 00:30:00.669 Uttam Kumaran: Or you’re gonna find people that want to get into AI.
263 00:30:00.790 ⇒ 00:30:07.909 Uttam Kumaran: I’m looking for the middle, people that are like, I didn’t know you could do this full-time, like, they’re hacking, AI stuff, like.
264 00:30:07.930 ⇒ 00:30:22.150 Uttam Kumaran: as a side project, or, like, maybe their boss is like, go check out AI stuff. They got really good at it, but they’re not getting the flexibility to go do it full-time. I’m like, think about a world where you’re working on AI projects 40 hours a week.
265 00:30:22.970 ⇒ 00:30:29.280 Uttam Kumaran: And people are like, no way. Like, that’s… that’s the… that’s all the people that we have right now. Like, I called…
266 00:30:29.550 ⇒ 00:30:34.870 Uttam Kumaran: Sam, all these folks, Sam, Casey, Mustafa, Pranav, were doing other things.
267 00:30:35.410 ⇒ 00:30:36.250 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
268 00:30:36.410 ⇒ 00:30:38.860 Uttam Kumaran: They had a little bit of an AI tinge, and I was like.
269 00:30:39.020 ⇒ 00:30:41.909 Uttam Kumaran: You should totally come do this for us, you know?
270 00:30:42.400 ⇒ 00:30:49.150 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay. So you want people kind of in that middle ground, that’s good to know for sourcing.
271 00:30:51.340 ⇒ 00:30:51.930 Kaela Gallagher: Okay.
272 00:30:51.930 ⇒ 00:30:59.960 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s gonna… I think that’s gonna be harder, but again, this is also where, like, I think for you, and this is what I tell Rico, like, I am, like, I am on your team, meaning, like.
273 00:31:00.000 ⇒ 00:31:13.430 Uttam Kumaran: I am a weapon in your arsenal to go use. So if you’re like, hey, AI people are hard to find, and, like, UTAM not only has to go identify them, but, like, probably has to go call them, and, like, if I have… let’s say I have 3 hours to spend on recording… on recruiting a week.
274 00:31:13.820 ⇒ 00:31:16.430 Uttam Kumaran: and you’re like, I just need you to go help me do that.
275 00:31:16.580 ⇒ 00:31:18.789 Uttam Kumaran: That’s how you should just use my time.
276 00:31:18.940 ⇒ 00:31:20.470 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So, like, I don’t…
277 00:31:20.600 ⇒ 00:31:33.160 Uttam Kumaran: part of this is, like, yes, handing things off, but also, like, I’m still here, like, I still have the title, I’m still able to, like, be wielded to go attack the toughest thing, so that’s how I think you should consider using my time.
278 00:31:33.280 ⇒ 00:31:45.300 Uttam Kumaran: you know, as best possible. The looms are… the looms are fine, it takes me, like, 10 minutes to do that, so, like, I wouldn’t over-optimize on that, but, like, if you’re like, hey, this AI thing is still undefined, I need you to go, like, do XYZ, or, like, help me think through it, like.
279 00:31:45.470 ⇒ 00:31:46.880 Uttam Kumaran: I could do that, you know.
280 00:31:47.370 ⇒ 00:31:48.810 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Okay.
281 00:31:49.030 ⇒ 00:31:55.910 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Another, like, thing that was kind of highlighted during…
282 00:31:56.020 ⇒ 00:32:08.069 Kaela Gallagher: my interview process, at least, was having a priority around W-2, and kind of getting people transferred to W2, and then being able to offer that to candidates as well.
283 00:32:08.640 ⇒ 00:32:12.280 Kaela Gallagher: Is that still a focus for us?
284 00:32:13.000 ⇒ 00:32:22.019 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, it is probably gonna happen, like, this next quarter. Like, we’ve done all the transition from, like, an LLC to, like, a C-Corp.
285 00:32:22.300 ⇒ 00:32:29.980 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve gotten all the cap table and everything in place, so then we are gonna… and I’ll kind of, like, this is, I think, something that me and you should decide on, is, like.
286 00:32:30.750 ⇒ 00:32:36.060 Uttam Kumaran: At what point we offer that, and to who we offer it to up front versus, like, later down the stage.
287 00:32:36.180 ⇒ 00:32:42.270 Uttam Kumaran: One of the unique parts of the way we’ve hired is we’ve hired in sort of this, like, part-time capacity and then ramped people up.
288 00:32:42.400 ⇒ 00:32:46.860 Uttam Kumaran: I know, similar to you, it’s not always going to be available.
289 00:32:47.040 ⇒ 00:32:56.139 Uttam Kumaran: But it has been a really great hedge for the business, because we were able to evaluate, and we would have made some pretty expensive mistakes had we not had that.
290 00:32:56.340 ⇒ 00:33:01.699 Uttam Kumaran: And so, it is something that I feel like has been really, really helpful.
291 00:33:02.260 ⇒ 00:33:09.720 Uttam Kumaran: But I know to keep really serious people, especially in the States, especially where everything’s tied to healthcare and stuff like that, is something we’re gonna have to do, like, no doubt. So…
292 00:33:09.720 ⇒ 00:33:10.190 Kaela Gallagher: minimum.
293 00:33:10.190 ⇒ 00:33:13.050 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, I think that’s where we need to figure out
294 00:33:13.320 ⇒ 00:33:19.400 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, in what situations do we offer it up front, versus what situations is it, like, something you build up towards?
295 00:33:19.600 ⇒ 00:33:24.790 Uttam Kumaran: And how should we use it as a, as a vehicle? Versus, like.
296 00:33:25.610 ⇒ 00:33:32.529 Uttam Kumaran: I think the advice we got is just, like, if you’re able to recruit and retain people without it, then you should.
297 00:33:32.980 ⇒ 00:33:38.289 Uttam Kumaran: Just because it’s a lot less liability, a lot less expense on the company.
298 00:33:38.450 ⇒ 00:33:46.190 Uttam Kumaran: But I know in the US, like, not everybody is down for that, and… but again, sort of thinking about, like, what leverage does Brainforge have?
299 00:33:46.500 ⇒ 00:33:52.000 Uttam Kumaran: We’re doing a lot of really awesome work, we’re a great place to work, we’re fully remote, like, there are these, like.
300 00:33:52.140 ⇒ 00:33:55.680 Uttam Kumaran: So this is, I think, a conversation for me and you to have, and maybe it’s, like.
301 00:33:55.870 ⇒ 00:34:13.269 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t have a policy, it’s candidate by candidate, or maybe we do have a policy. Of course, like, we want to drive towards some policy, but it’s… it’s… it’s TBD on, like, how we use it, but in terms of being available, like, at least in the next two months, like, we should have all buttoned up, and then… because we’re doing that, and then healthcare.
302 00:34:13.420 ⇒ 00:34:14.040 Uttam Kumaran: Like…
303 00:34:14.040 ⇒ 00:34:14.550 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
304 00:34:14.550 ⇒ 00:34:19.750 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where, like, just all my, like, operational time has to, like, try to transition into figuring all that out.
305 00:34:20.170 ⇒ 00:34:22.759 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, so you’re kind of the one that’s…
306 00:34:22.880 ⇒ 00:34:25.920 Kaela Gallagher: Been most involved in this process so far.
307 00:34:25.920 ⇒ 00:34:29.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And making it a reality.
308 00:34:29.449 ⇒ 00:34:34.249 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you guys have, like, legal consultation on it as well?
309 00:34:34.250 ⇒ 00:34:53.739 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we have both in-house and external legal. We have a whole, like, finance team that’s, like, they’re outsourced, but, like, it’s a woman here in Austin and her team. So there’s a bunch of stuff going on about that. The only reason it hasn’t happened is bandwidth. Like, it takes time for me to go figure that out, and then, like.
310 00:34:54.380 ⇒ 00:35:01.470 Uttam Kumaran: make decisions on, like, how to do all that. And so, again, it’s gonna require, like, probably 5-10 hours a week to go figure that out, so…
311 00:35:02.260 ⇒ 00:35:06.699 Uttam Kumaran: We’re buying back the time, you know, to go do those things.
312 00:35:06.700 ⇒ 00:35:12.739 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah. Where would you want my… I guess, support in that.
313 00:35:12.950 ⇒ 00:35:28.959 Uttam Kumaran: I think it sort of depends on, like, how much you’ve seen of that, and, like, where you think you can be helpful. It’s sort of a net new world for me, so the way I do things anytime is I call anyone I know that’s involved in that industry or has done it before, and I say, tell me everything you know, and then I…
314 00:35:29.100 ⇒ 00:35:34.390 Uttam Kumaran: blend all that together, and then I come up with some sort of roadmap, or… and then I…
315 00:35:34.690 ⇒ 00:35:41.600 Uttam Kumaran: run it by anyone in the company that has any background in it, and then we go, right? So that’s how I’ve done everything here, because.
316 00:35:41.600 ⇒ 00:35:42.200 Kaela Gallagher: I’m good!
317 00:35:42.200 ⇒ 00:35:47.130 Uttam Kumaran: It’s hard, or if we get lucky, we can pay people, like, consultants, or someone…
318 00:35:47.890 ⇒ 00:36:04.060 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s… that’s generally, like, I’ve called some people, I have some people that work in that industry in, like, benefits, so I’ll call them, and I know some people, I also know some people that want to sell us services. I will call both and kind of see what both people say. Of course, some people are biased, some people aren’t…
319 00:36:04.060 ⇒ 00:36:08.670 Uttam Kumaran: not so biased, but, like, some people, they worked at big companies, small, so I kind of, like, just…
320 00:36:08.680 ⇒ 00:36:10.490 Uttam Kumaran: Get everybody’s take on it.
321 00:36:10.630 ⇒ 00:36:17.849 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’ll talk to the employer, I’ll talk to our finance, and then, like, everybody has their own angle, though, on, like, what’s important to them. For me.
322 00:36:18.010 ⇒ 00:36:30.850 Uttam Kumaran: I only care about Brainforge, and so, like, I take all their angles, I’m like, they’re nervous, they’re like, oh, this always is like this, and then I find out that’s just because, like, yeah, so I have to get these angles to then form a consensus on that.
323 00:36:31.060 ⇒ 00:36:36.740 Uttam Kumaran: So I’ll do that with… with health, I’ll do that with W-2, then we’ll do that for… as we move to other benefits.
324 00:36:37.660 ⇒ 00:36:40.759 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, yeah, let me know, like, where…
325 00:36:40.760 ⇒ 00:36:44.259 Uttam Kumaran: So I’ll just, I mean, I’ll just basically bring you along for that ride to figure that out.
326 00:36:44.260 ⇒ 00:36:48.150 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah. Awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah, I… I also have…
327 00:36:49.020 ⇒ 00:37:02.419 Kaela Gallagher: An uncle who works with… in the insurance business as well, and he helps people find insurance options, and his business model is he gets paid by the insurance company for the
328 00:37:02.840 ⇒ 00:37:06.960 Kaela Gallagher: basically, so I’m sure he could help us look into options, too, but…
329 00:37:07.150 ⇒ 00:37:12.540 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, cool, yeah, excited to be part of that process.
330 00:37:13.790 ⇒ 00:37:24.529 Kaela Gallagher: I guess? I know we’re a little bit over time, but, what do you want me to, like, accomplish or focus on week one?
331 00:37:25.140 ⇒ 00:37:35.119 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, I think if you’re able to create some sort of plan around sourcing, or at least
332 00:37:35.310 ⇒ 00:37:39.500 Uttam Kumaran: Show us, like, what a sourcing plan, like, you mentioned a sourcing plan, like.
333 00:37:39.610 ⇒ 00:37:46.109 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just interested in, like, how do we get more organized than we are, and how do we fill the bucket with candidates?
334 00:37:46.370 ⇒ 00:37:49.500 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think if you were gonna keep two things in your mind.
335 00:37:49.690 ⇒ 00:37:57.159 Uttam Kumaran: I can still continue to manage delivery, so I don’t want you to, like… what will happen at Brainforge is there’s a lot of trash on the ground.
336 00:37:57.430 ⇒ 00:38:04.460 Uttam Kumaran: So, if you’re someone that goes into a company and likes picking up stuff, there’s too much. So be very careful and, like.
337 00:38:04.850 ⇒ 00:38:12.519 Uttam Kumaran: observe everything, but really continue to ask yourself, like, what is the primary goal? Because there is tons of, like.
338 00:38:12.750 ⇒ 00:38:16.480 Uttam Kumaran: It will be a while until everything’s, like, hunky-dory, so…
339 00:38:16.590 ⇒ 00:38:23.270 Uttam Kumaran: if I could say anything, for me, the most important thing is continuing to have people applying and going through the interview process.
340 00:38:23.610 ⇒ 00:38:27.940 Uttam Kumaran: That will, on the delivery side, allow me to know that, like, as we’re selling more business.
341 00:38:28.170 ⇒ 00:38:30.949 Uttam Kumaran: We are going to be able to service that revenue.
342 00:38:31.070 ⇒ 00:38:36.020 Uttam Kumaran: So I feel like that’s the one thing, if you can help organize a plan around, like.
343 00:38:36.130 ⇒ 00:38:50.029 Uttam Kumaran: How do we look at sourcing? How do we measure that we’re actively sourcing well? Do we have, like, yeah, reviewing, like, all of the JDs that are out there, reviewing the job posts, and then understanding how do we keep a constant heartbeat on that?
344 00:38:50.680 ⇒ 00:39:04.170 Uttam Kumaran: And then basically saying, like, great, like, at what point, we can be like, we have a sourcing plan that we can execute. It currently… it’s gonna take Kayla 20 hours, or Kayla plus someone 20 hours to do that.
345 00:39:04.480 ⇒ 00:39:15.340 Uttam Kumaran: And then I can say, okay, great, that’s sourcing, right? And then we have also, like, retention, right? So then we can start talking about, like, what’s needed for retention and bonuses and things like that.
346 00:39:15.590 ⇒ 00:39:17.880 Uttam Kumaran: But really, I think, before even…
347 00:39:18.810 ⇒ 00:39:26.190 Uttam Kumaran: Doing that is, like, if we can do… if we can focus on recruiting and sourcing, that’s the… probably the number one problem right now.
348 00:39:29.390 ⇒ 00:39:29.990 Kaela Gallagher: Got it.
349 00:39:29.990 ⇒ 00:39:35.750 Uttam Kumaran: So, maybe if you could take that energy and, like, boil it down to, like, some deliverables, I think that would be helpful.
350 00:39:36.080 ⇒ 00:39:36.960 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
351 00:39:37.840 ⇒ 00:39:38.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
352 00:39:38.570 ⇒ 00:39:43.770 Kaela Gallagher: How, I guess, in general, do you like to be presented with ideas?
353 00:39:45.190 ⇒ 00:39:52.609 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I think one thing, and Rico’s probably a good person to ask, like, he’s probably one of the people in the company that were closest with me.
354 00:39:52.810 ⇒ 00:39:55.410 Uttam Kumaran: Or at least at this point, as, like, probably…
355 00:39:55.640 ⇒ 00:39:57.689 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s what I’m gonna say in his brain.
356 00:39:57.690 ⇒ 00:39:57.900 Kaela Gallagher: Haha.
357 00:40:00.050 ⇒ 00:40:13.390 Uttam Kumaran: for me, like, getting time with me is the hardest, like, getting this type of, meeting time, because ultimately, it’s, like, everybody, like, I get probably, like, 5 slacks every, like, minute.
358 00:40:13.520 ⇒ 00:40:18.829 Uttam Kumaran: And so, at any moment, a lot of people are trying to get attention, so… I think…
359 00:40:18.970 ⇒ 00:40:25.450 Uttam Kumaran: doing as much async, and as much via, like, Zoom… via Zoom clips, like, doing via Zoom clips as possible.
360 00:40:25.600 ⇒ 00:40:31.770 Uttam Kumaran: I also do want to try… this recruiting is super, super important for me. It’s at… it’s at… we have…
361 00:40:31.820 ⇒ 00:40:46.779 Uttam Kumaran: we have, like, our… basically, like, getting clients in, and getting people in, and keeping those… both of those people, like, meshed together and happy. So this is, like, a third part of the rung that is so, so important. So I don’t mind meeting every week.
362 00:40:46.940 ⇒ 00:40:51.880 Uttam Kumaran: For an hour, and talking through whatever, but definitely using that time wisely.
363 00:40:52.040 ⇒ 00:40:56.750 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t require any, like, decks or anything, but as long as you’re organized.
364 00:40:57.190 ⇒ 00:41:17.020 Uttam Kumaran: and whether that’s spreadsheets or Notion, or whatever, like, whatever you need to be organized, and then you can translate ideas, and then you can drive towards a decision, I will make the decision, right? Even, no matter how open-ended, if you’re like, just tell me I have these two options, that’s a perfect way, because I’ll tell you, through the history of the company, what we’ve tried, what’s worked.
365 00:41:17.050 ⇒ 00:41:23.629 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I think that’s a great way to leverage me. And again, anything until recruiting at this point, it’s been me and Rico, so…
366 00:41:24.500 ⇒ 00:41:30.489 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you can ask us any question, I’ll tell you, just like at this call, I’ll tell you what we’ve tried, what we haven’t tried, why.
367 00:41:30.680 ⇒ 00:41:33.790 Uttam Kumaran: You know, why something sucks, you know, yeah.
368 00:41:34.150 ⇒ 00:41:37.359 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, perfect.
369 00:41:37.360 ⇒ 00:41:50.610 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, you don’t have to do decks or anything. I think we’ll also… what we’re gonna do is, like, we’re gonna start to meet at sort of, like, a little bit of a leadership crew, and, like, I’ll start to add you to that meeting, so that way you’ll… I want to make sure that you’re seeing how recruiting fits into this whole company.
370 00:41:50.610 ⇒ 00:41:51.040 Kaela Gallagher: Yes.
371 00:41:51.040 ⇒ 00:41:52.789 Uttam Kumaran: That you’re not, like,
372 00:41:52.950 ⇒ 00:42:06.039 Uttam Kumaran: you’re not clamoring to figure that out yourself, necessarily. Like, we’ll give you that perspective on how recruiting fits into our broader OKRs. And then lastly, certainly, like, build a relationship with the people. Like, people is all our company is, right? Like, so…
373 00:42:06.590 ⇒ 00:42:19.729 Uttam Kumaran: I want you to be the person, like… me, I’m usually the person of last resort on, like, everything. It’s like Rico and then me, so being able to have you in that flow, I think, is going to be also really, really good for everybody to know that, like.
374 00:42:20.500 ⇒ 00:42:37.510 Uttam Kumaran: we’re investing in our people, we’re investing in structure for our people, and that this is a place that they can spend their career, right? That’s all I think about. I’m able to do that because I know everybody, but that will quickly change around here. Like, it’s very hard for me to maintain 25 relationships and make sure everyone’s happy.
375 00:42:37.560 ⇒ 00:42:49.830 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m really trying… by bringing you on, I want to invest in the fact that people feel safe, they know what growth looks like at Brain Forge, and then certainly, like, we’re gonna grow, like, if you…
376 00:42:50.160 ⇒ 00:42:54.869 Uttam Kumaran: You’ll start to see during our leadership calls how much our revenue is slated to grow.
377 00:42:54.990 ⇒ 00:42:58.710 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, my panic comes from how do I service that?
378 00:42:58.850 ⇒ 00:43:14.659 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, yes, yeah, money’s great, whatever, but, like, it’s actually… I only care about if we’re actually delivering on what we’re getting paid for, and our clients are getting a return, and so I want to make sure that, like, we have a recruiting pipeline that supports that, and that’s not just, like.
379 00:43:15.100 ⇒ 00:43:19.269 Uttam Kumaran: okay, randomly we post, and we get people who are like, I got lucky on a few candidates.
380 00:43:19.430 ⇒ 00:43:21.589 Uttam Kumaran: It needs to be something much more robust.
381 00:43:21.860 ⇒ 00:43:33.829 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, yeah, we definitely need to be, like, proactive on it as well. Like, it’s one thing to have a post and have candidates coming to you, and that can be successful, but then also, like, being proactive and reaching out to people, I think, is important.
382 00:43:33.830 ⇒ 00:43:41.380 Uttam Kumaran: And we have a broad network, like, everybody in the company is more than willing to hit their network. We have so… we have tons and tons of friends at Brainforge.
383 00:43:41.780 ⇒ 00:43:44.449 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, we should leverage every trick in the book.
384 00:43:44.450 ⇒ 00:43:45.050 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
385 00:43:45.290 ⇒ 00:43:48.289 Uttam Kumaran: like… You know, yeah.
386 00:43:48.770 ⇒ 00:43:54.190 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. Okay. I guess moving forward…
387 00:43:54.310 ⇒ 00:43:58.659 Kaela Gallagher: I’d definitely love to do weeklies, at least just to start, so I can make sure…
388 00:43:58.660 ⇒ 00:44:05.479 Uttam Kumaran: right track with things. And also, like, after… in the, like, probably after, like, 6 central, you can call me on the phone, like, I’ll… I can talk after.
389 00:44:06.680 ⇒ 00:44:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly, like, I usually call Luke, or I call Rico, like, I… if I go for a walk, I just, like, say, like, how’s it going? How can I be helpful? So you’re…
390 00:44:14.310 ⇒ 00:44:14.670 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
391 00:44:14.670 ⇒ 00:44:16.800 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just during the day, it’s brutal, like…
392 00:44:16.800 ⇒ 00:44:17.640 Kaela Gallagher: It’s tough.
393 00:44:17.640 ⇒ 00:44:18.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
394 00:44:18.170 ⇒ 00:44:19.080 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, okay.
395 00:44:19.080 ⇒ 00:44:35.320 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s do Mondays, or Tuesdays, or whatever you need, and then, again, like, if you can come with, like, an agenda, and then if anything, if you’re like, hey, I wrote something down, and there’s a chance I can give feedback before the meeting, like, that would be great. Okay. But I’m not, like, too much of a stickler.
396 00:44:35.560 ⇒ 00:44:43.790 Kaela Gallagher: Cool. And then is it okay if maybe this week at least, I do some, like, shadowing with Rico? Like, I’d like to just see, like.
397 00:44:43.790 ⇒ 00:44:49.279 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, you can join, I would say, like, any of our internal calls, you can totally join, like.
398 00:44:49.970 ⇒ 00:44:58.379 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, totally, like, whatever, whatever you need to pair with Rico on, or go to interviews with, yeah, it’s more than welcome.
399 00:44:58.590 ⇒ 00:45:00.040 Kaela Gallagher: Okay. Okay.
400 00:45:00.660 ⇒ 00:45:01.640 Kaela Gallagher: Cool.
401 00:45:01.640 ⇒ 00:45:05.230 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, again, like, I think probably the thing I’m gonna… I’m gonna hammer is just, like.
402 00:45:05.620 ⇒ 00:45:12.879 Uttam Kumaran: If you have any questions, just hit it in Slack. Like, I’ll answer or someone will answer. It’s just… it’s just gonna be tough to, like…
403 00:45:13.650 ⇒ 00:45:18.620 Uttam Kumaran: it’s just… time is tough. Like, I live 8… I can only be on meetings for 8… for AM, like…
404 00:45:18.810 ⇒ 00:45:26.540 Uttam Kumaran: I will only be on one meeting at a time, put it that way, but I will answer… I can answer you on Slack at any time, like, so I will.
405 00:45:26.800 ⇒ 00:45:34.240 Kaela Gallagher: Alrighty, awesome! Yeah, I think that’s all I… all I have for now. Yeah, that wasn’t that bad.
406 00:45:34.240 ⇒ 00:45:41.530 Uttam Kumaran: I thought they were gonna be like, why’d you hire all these people? What do we do? How do we pay? So, okay, not bad.
407 00:45:41.740 ⇒ 00:45:55.739 Kaela Gallagher: Well, I know we’re over time, so I don’t want to, drag it out any longer, but I’ll definitely, Rico, partner with you a ton this week. I know I have a lot to kind of learn about the processes already in place, and then,
408 00:45:55.740 ⇒ 00:46:03.419 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah, Utam, like, if you ever have any feedback for me at all, or if there’s anything you need me to accomplish, like, please let me.
409 00:46:03.420 ⇒ 00:46:09.079 Uttam Kumaran: I think maybe as a home base, like, should we just use that recruiting channel as, like, a home base?
410 00:46:09.580 ⇒ 00:46:10.070 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
411 00:46:10.070 ⇒ 00:46:17.879 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want that to be, like, your channel for just, like, anything recruiting. Like, we don’t have, like, a recruiting strategy channel, so, like.
412 00:46:18.070 ⇒ 00:46:24.409 Uttam Kumaran: anything recruiting-related is in that. I feel like it’s kind of good, also, because you, you know there’s, like, nothing lost.
413 00:46:24.880 ⇒ 00:46:25.240 Kaela Gallagher: Yeah.
414 00:46:25.700 ⇒ 00:46:30.890 Uttam Kumaran: So, I would say, like, feel free to hit me, like, we’re a really transparent company, so, like.
415 00:46:31.320 ⇒ 00:46:43.910 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t really… like, unless it’s, like, sensitive stuff, like, you could ask in any channel about anything, and someone will answer. So I would recommend doing that over DMs, because then you’re just going to be waiting, or you only get one person’s perspective.
416 00:46:44.270 ⇒ 00:46:46.519 Kaela Gallagher: Okay, okay, cool, sounds good.
417 00:46:47.540 ⇒ 00:46:50.459 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, alright, I’m gonna hop, but appreciate it.
418 00:46:50.460 ⇒ 00:46:51.960 Kaela Gallagher: Awesome, thanks for the time.
419 00:46:51.960 ⇒ 00:46:53.390 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thank you. Bye.
420 00:46:53.700 ⇒ 00:46:54.500 Rico Rejoso: leave this.