Meeting Title: Brainforge Ops Team Feedback Session Date: 2026-02-11 Meeting participants: Elizah Joy, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:02:55.740 ⇒ 00:02:56.960 Uttam Kumaran: Hi, Eliza!
2 00:02:57.510 ⇒ 00:02:58.340 Elizah Joy: Bye.
3 00:02:58.760 ⇒ 00:03:00.390 Elizah Joy: Hi, how are you?
4 00:03:00.390 ⇒ 00:03:01.839 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, good, how are you?
5 00:03:01.840 ⇒ 00:03:07.239 Elizah Joy: I’m good. Finally, like… This, we were able to meet.
6 00:03:08.230 ⇒ 00:03:15.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I know, it’s been… it’s just been crazy on my side, as you know, so I’m pumped. Yeah, like, how’s, how’s the week going so far?
7 00:03:16.160 ⇒ 00:03:17.070 Elizah Joy: Oh, it’s…
8 00:03:17.370 ⇒ 00:03:23.540 Elizah Joy: It’s… it’s… I think it’s somehow going good, it’s just that there are a lot of tasks for this week.
9 00:03:23.620 ⇒ 00:03:24.440 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
10 00:03:24.840 ⇒ 00:03:25.650 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
11 00:03:26.720 ⇒ 00:03:40.269 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I guess maybe we can even take a step back, like, give me a sense of, like, overall, like, how you’re feeling maybe before you joined, like, and now maybe we’re a month or two in, right? So, give me a sense of, like, how… how you’re reflecting on things.
12 00:03:40.390 ⇒ 00:03:57.509 Elizah Joy: I think, before I joined, like, my initial, for example, my initial call with Rico, right, so he mentioned that, like, we work fast and we fail fast, and then I joined, I did not expect that it’s, like, really fast. I think.
13 00:03:57.510 ⇒ 00:04:00.930 Uttam Kumaran: Really fast. Yeah. Yes.
14 00:04:01.650 ⇒ 00:04:09.070 Elizah Joy: Really fast, especially that, the ops team, like, we’re a small team, right? But it’s, a crucial part of the…
15 00:04:09.390 ⇒ 00:04:11.250 Elizah Joy: Business, but…
16 00:04:11.250 ⇒ 00:04:32.750 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I think that’s one thing I’ve learned, is that adjusting to that taste, and then… because, for example, Rico, he works really fast, like, when you tell him something, like, he’ll be doing it right away, so I had to adjust to that and learn, like, his working style as well, and then with Shashu coming in, so I think overall.
17 00:04:33.110 ⇒ 00:04:36.999 Elizah Joy: So far, my experience has been…
18 00:04:37.170 ⇒ 00:04:53.440 Elizah Joy: great with working with Mariko and Shashu. It’s, I think growth-wise, I’m learning so much on that as well, and that there’s more, like, opportunity for me to grow inside the business.
19 00:04:53.990 ⇒ 00:04:59.360 Uttam Kumaran: Great. Yeah, I guess, like, tell me… give me a sense of, like, how the pace has sort of, like.
20 00:04:59.510 ⇒ 00:05:03.640 Uttam Kumaran: Affected your, like, what you’ve needed to change due to the pace, like…
21 00:05:04.580 ⇒ 00:05:07.129 Uttam Kumaran: Part of it is not pace at, like, all costs.
22 00:05:07.130 ⇒ 00:05:08.110 Elizah Joy: Yeah. But…
23 00:05:08.210 ⇒ 00:05:15.389 Uttam Kumaran: one thing that I try to do is show that sometimes we think things take a certain amount of time, they don’t need to take that much time.
24 00:05:15.450 ⇒ 00:05:18.079 Elizah Joy: Yeah. Right? And, like, if you’ve worked in any company.
25 00:05:18.280 ⇒ 00:05:23.179 Uttam Kumaran: And especially companies that are bigger, they just don’t care. So they’re like, go do this and come back.
26 00:05:23.470 ⇒ 00:05:28.490 Uttam Kumaran: For us, it’s the reason we are in business is because of our pace, right? And so.
27 00:05:29.370 ⇒ 00:05:31.919 Uttam Kumaran: My job is to share, like, hey.
28 00:05:32.290 ⇒ 00:05:38.219 Uttam Kumaran: You may think this thing takes a month, but actually, I feel like the core parts, 80% of you can get done in, like, 3 days.
29 00:05:38.450 ⇒ 00:05:44.030 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of like the message I sent today, where I’m like, hey, we’ve been working on Notion for 3 weeks, what else is remaining?
30 00:05:44.250 ⇒ 00:05:51.810 Uttam Kumaran: okay, there’s these 10 things remaining. Okay, well then I can give you the feedback that, like, just get the 5 of those done, and let’s get it out.
31 00:05:51.980 ⇒ 00:06:01.979 Uttam Kumaran: And you’re like, okay, right? And so, but that dialogue is what needs to happen faster, right? You know? But yeah, I’m just curious on, like, how it’s affected the way you work, and, like.
32 00:06:02.190 ⇒ 00:06:04.149 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m just, like, just curious.
33 00:06:04.700 ⇒ 00:06:12.839 Elizah Joy: Oh, I think because one thing on my end is, like, I tend to, initially when I… before I start working with Brainforge, I tend to, like.
34 00:06:12.850 ⇒ 00:06:15.569 Uttam Kumaran: overthink things. Okay.
35 00:06:15.570 ⇒ 00:06:18.109 Elizah Joy: And so I think that’s… For me.
36 00:06:18.110 ⇒ 00:06:23.729 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of people here do that, because everybody here is smart, and smart people tend to overthink.
37 00:06:24.270 ⇒ 00:06:24.870 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
38 00:06:24.870 ⇒ 00:06:29.149 Uttam Kumaran: As a former over-thinker, my job is to destroy that, like…
39 00:06:29.310 ⇒ 00:06:36.219 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and you could see, I come in like a wrecking ball, right? And I’m like, where is this? Because I want you to change the fact that, like.
40 00:06:36.390 ⇒ 00:06:38.460 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect is the enemy of, like.
41 00:06:38.460 ⇒ 00:06:38.890 Elizah Joy: Huh.
42 00:06:38.890 ⇒ 00:06:40.049 Uttam Kumaran: Getting things out.
43 00:06:40.180 ⇒ 00:06:52.709 Uttam Kumaran: And the reason why we’ve built this business so fast is because we’ve never let perfect be the enemy of good, right? In that we will always iterate and get better, but something is better than nothing, you know?
44 00:06:52.710 ⇒ 00:07:03.539 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I do agree on that, because I think with my background before, like, I’ve worked with, businesses before, wherein, like, what you’ve mentioned before, it’s, like, fear-based, so I think.
45 00:07:03.540 ⇒ 00:07:04.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
46 00:07:04.500 ⇒ 00:07:10.759 Elizah Joy: part of, like, me overthinking stuff, but, like, what Rika mentioned before is that
47 00:07:10.800 ⇒ 00:07:30.459 Elizah Joy: we work fast, but we also fail fast. So, I think… I think that’s what I love about, you know, working with you and in the business, and with everyone in the team in general, because everyone’s so helpful, and then, like, for example, priorities-wise, you do give us guidance on that end. So, like, for example, there are a lot of
48 00:07:30.460 ⇒ 00:07:35.409 Elizah Joy: things coming in in the op… from an operations standpoint, right? So you do help us.
49 00:07:35.440 ⇒ 00:07:42.399 Elizah Joy: prioritize on that end, and then I think even if, you know, we… there are a lot of, like.
50 00:07:42.800 ⇒ 00:07:46.710 Elizah Joy: Things going on, and then even with the pace.
51 00:07:47.460 ⇒ 00:07:54.619 Elizah Joy: What helped me somehow, like, adjust to that part is that,
52 00:07:54.810 ⇒ 00:08:08.499 Elizah Joy: like, I do not… I do not need to, like, overthink things. So I think that’s one of the most helpful things on that, is that, like, even if it’s… like, in my mind, it’s, like, 80% good.
53 00:08:08.660 ⇒ 00:08:24.730 Elizah Joy: or 80-90% good, right? So I think, just getting that feedback, whether it’s, you know, a good… we don’t give that too much bad feedback, but getting that feedback really helps, like, to close that gap between that 80% to.
54 00:08:24.730 ⇒ 00:08:28.759 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Like, you may, you may be able to do 3 days of work, get feedback.
55 00:08:28.760 ⇒ 00:08:29.270 Elizah Joy: Mmm.
56 00:08:29.270 ⇒ 00:08:32.639 Uttam Kumaran: and be like, cool, I can finish it, versus you work for two weeks.
57 00:08:32.640 ⇒ 00:08:32.990 Elizah Joy: Feedback?
58 00:08:32.990 ⇒ 00:08:35.990 Uttam Kumaran: That, like, something early on wasn’t good?
59 00:08:36.200 ⇒ 00:08:41.729 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s why, like, part of this Notion project is, like, I… this is where my job is to…
60 00:08:42.130 ⇒ 00:08:45.300 Uttam Kumaran: It’s to selectively let you guys learn.
61 00:08:45.430 ⇒ 00:08:48.880 Elizah Joy: Like, what failure looks like, and show you that it’s okay to fail.
62 00:08:49.310 ⇒ 00:08:49.870 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
63 00:08:49.870 ⇒ 00:08:53.790 Uttam Kumaran: I… sometimes it’s… it’s one thing to be like, okay, it’s okay to fail, but like…
64 00:08:54.020 ⇒ 00:09:02.380 Uttam Kumaran: sometimes I see projects, and this is my… this is the… this is… you have to put yourself in my shoes. I see projects, and I’m like, I can tell this is not gonna work out.
65 00:09:02.520 ⇒ 00:09:06.840 Uttam Kumaran: What do I do at that point? Do I intervene and be like, this is the way to do it, or…
66 00:09:06.950 ⇒ 00:09:20.939 Uttam Kumaran: I have to kind of let teams trip a little bit, show you the path, and then be like, okay, great, now next time, you know what we’re expecting. But part of this is also, like, as individuals, you guys should be pushing on each other.
67 00:09:20.940 ⇒ 00:09:24.309 Elizah Joy: Right? And holding each other to high standards, right?
68 00:09:24.310 ⇒ 00:09:30.490 Uttam Kumaran: like, coming to meetings prepared, but, like, saying… saying the things that I’m saying, which is, like.
69 00:09:31.080 ⇒ 00:09:43.289 Uttam Kumaran: this thing is taking 3 weeks. Is there anything that we can just get done in the next 2 days? Right? Can we slim down? Can we slim down? And I think that’s something that I’m hopeful that all 3 of you can get empowered to do.
70 00:09:43.430 ⇒ 00:09:49.679 Uttam Kumaran: Because you guys are crushing it. I think, like, my biggest feedback is, one, is, like, continue to be vocal.
71 00:09:49.770 ⇒ 00:10:02.030 Uttam Kumaran: Our team… our company is a quiet company. Like, most people are not talkative people, so it may seem like you’re sometimes just speaking and nobody’s responding. That’s… that’s… that… it’s gonna feel like that.
72 00:10:02.070 ⇒ 00:10:11.439 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like that. But I’m telling you, people are listening, and so the biggest way for you to continue to develop your voice is to continue to develop relationships with everybody.
73 00:10:11.880 ⇒ 00:10:12.330 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
74 00:10:12.330 ⇒ 00:10:27.560 Uttam Kumaran: So, the best way to go and say something, hey, can everybody help me do this? If you go and you know everybody, when they see your message, they’re gonna be like, yeah, Eliza’s my friend, I’m gonna go do… I’m gonna go do beverages, right? But then if you just come and nobody knows you, and then you’re like, hey, everybody, we’re doing this, people will be like.
75 00:10:27.560 ⇒ 00:10:37.249 Uttam Kumaran: is that important? I’m doing… I’m working on something, right? And so, one of the things that I would continue to recommend is to build those relationships. Like, don’t wait for the donut meeting.
76 00:10:37.420 ⇒ 00:10:49.100 Uttam Kumaran: Just say, like, hey, can we grab, like, a virtual coffee? Like, would love to learn about your job, and learn about you, and see how I can be helpful. That’s the stuff that I really want to see the ops team getting more proactive on.
77 00:10:49.200 ⇒ 00:10:57.050 Uttam Kumaran: And really, that’s why I wanna… I wanna look at the list of things that you’re working on every week that I can try to cut so you have more time for that.
78 00:10:57.200 ⇒ 00:11:08.009 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because I know that takes time, right? And so, for me, I’m consistently looking at, like, okay, even… that’s why I was sort of putting pressure yesterday, because I’m like, hey, I just want to be able to see this week.
79 00:11:08.380 ⇒ 00:11:10.230 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what are we all working on?
80 00:11:10.440 ⇒ 00:11:14.649 Uttam Kumaran: I know for a fact there’s gonna be 30-40% that I can try to move off.
81 00:11:14.720 ⇒ 00:11:30.730 Uttam Kumaran: So, one, you guys can get… finish the bigger things that you guys already started, and then second, like, start thinking about ways that the ops team can enable these different teams, you know? Additionally, I can still tell that I think Ricoh has the ownership of a lot of key areas.
82 00:11:30.730 ⇒ 00:11:32.429 Elizah Joy: So I want you guys to break that down.
83 00:11:32.520 ⇒ 00:11:37.649 Uttam Kumaran: like, start being like, hey, can I take on some contract work? Can I help on recruiting? Like.
84 00:11:37.710 ⇒ 00:11:52.569 Uttam Kumaran: start to build that redundancy, right? But again, if… I think the really… the tough part this week is I had to really push for that, and that’s not gonna happen every week, right? And so, that’s probably my biggest feedback, you know, for the team right now, is like.
85 00:11:53.090 ⇒ 00:11:57.260 Uttam Kumaran: don’t wait for me to give feedback, because by the time I get feedback, there’s probably something wrong.
86 00:11:57.700 ⇒ 00:12:03.740 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s… that’s what… it’s similar to what happens with our clients, right? The moment the client is like, hey, I have feedback.
87 00:12:04.280 ⇒ 00:12:11.019 Uttam Kumaran: something’s gonna happen. And so, more of, like, you should be consistently asking for feedback and pushing on, like.
88 00:12:11.120 ⇒ 00:12:20.350 Uttam Kumaran: hey, we’re completing this, this is what’s next, and coming and be like, hey, we have these 10 things, I recommend that these things be deprioritized. What do you think?
89 00:12:20.520 ⇒ 00:12:32.440 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So moving from the structure of, like, here’s the problem, or there’s no feedback at all, to the, hey, here’s a problem, we discussed, and we have this recommendation, what do you think? Right?
90 00:12:32.600 ⇒ 00:12:33.040 Elizah Joy: Hmm.
91 00:12:33.040 ⇒ 00:12:38.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I would like to, in particular, see your voice, you know, really grow a lot into.
92 00:12:38.370 ⇒ 00:12:44.870 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I think… I think when the ops team, like, from, like…
93 00:12:45.190 ⇒ 00:13:04.079 Elizah Joy: let’s say… let’s say, for example, the one that, like, I think that’s Tuesday when we had our ops meeting, like, the disconnect, right? With this… just with the slides, for example. I think, with the ops team, we’re still, growing on… in that area, like, communication-wise. Yeah.
94 00:13:04.150 ⇒ 00:13:08.170 Elizah Joy: Because I think… somehow, like, recall has…
95 00:13:08.340 ⇒ 00:13:13.860 Elizah Joy: his… because he knows the business better, right? And then he has his own…
96 00:13:14.270 ⇒ 00:13:31.979 Elizah Joy: aspects of the business that he’s working on, and then me, and then Shashu. So I think, that’s what we’ve discussed earlier, actually, during our op-sync, is that even if, like, for example, Rika’s, doing things on recruitment, legal, like.
97 00:13:32.130 ⇒ 00:13:42.399 Elizah Joy: we can, like, Sheshu and I can help on that, as long as we know what kind of help, needs to be done there, and then we also with Notion, and then the thing for us, like.
98 00:13:42.700 ⇒ 00:13:54.390 Elizah Joy: having that Like, preparing ahead of time, really, so that there’s no surprises for everyone, because… And also…
99 00:13:54.430 ⇒ 00:14:10.440 Elizah Joy: I think they’re somehow… at some point, they were like, I have my own priorities, Jeshu’s has his, and then Rika has his. Then I think that’s one of the things, like, we’re learning more from each other. And then we, of course, we want to grow in that aspect, in a…
100 00:14:10.450 ⇒ 00:14:16.320 Elizah Joy: in a faster way, and I think you put, pushing us yesterday, we did.
101 00:14:16.320 ⇒ 00:14:16.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
102 00:14:16.760 ⇒ 00:14:17.940 Elizah Joy: Learn that.
103 00:14:18.050 ⇒ 00:14:24.769 Elizah Joy: Yeah, we have a lot of work on, like, even if we’re doing the op-sync, like, during the call, are we really…
104 00:14:25.080 ⇒ 00:14:30.040 Elizah Joy: Like, are the team really aware of what your priorities for the day are, or are we just…
105 00:14:30.150 ⇒ 00:14:33.189 Elizah Joy: Having the call for the sake of just having the call.
106 00:14:33.190 ⇒ 00:14:36.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so that’s exactly… but the thing is, you already knew that.
107 00:14:36.870 ⇒ 00:14:38.960 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s what I’m trying to…
108 00:14:38.960 ⇒ 00:14:39.370 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
109 00:14:39.370 ⇒ 00:14:43.919 Uttam Kumaran: get out of you is not the fact that, like, you all met and identified that great.
110 00:14:44.050 ⇒ 00:14:48.670 Uttam Kumaran: But I know that you already knew that, I know all three of you already knew that. Nobody’s saying it out loud.
111 00:14:48.960 ⇒ 00:14:53.739 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s what you need to think about. Think about me, and how…
112 00:14:53.900 ⇒ 00:15:08.090 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… if I’m in a meeting and things… I’m like, hey guys, what is this? Like, you have… try to do that, because I’m telling you, your success depends on your team’s success. So if all three of you guys come, and you’re like, here’s my update, thanks, and go.
113 00:15:08.410 ⇒ 00:15:09.670 Uttam Kumaran: That’s not a team.
114 00:15:09.910 ⇒ 00:15:11.030 Elizah Joy: Like…
115 00:15:11.030 ⇒ 00:15:21.679 Uttam Kumaran: there should be… there shouldn’t be a team then, right? Like, there should just be 3 ICs. Instead, you guys are a team. You can see that, like, hey, I’m putting pressure on Shaishu to be like, what is the priorities?
116 00:15:22.140 ⇒ 00:15:37.340 Uttam Kumaran: like, that’s his responsibility, so I’m not expecting you to pick that up for him, but I’m expecting you to support him in delivering that, right? And then he may be like, hey, I have… I have mine, but like, yes, I agree, we haven’t gotten the team together. Okay, how does the team support that?
117 00:15:37.450 ⇒ 00:15:55.199 Uttam Kumaran: So part of this teamwork is not actually having to, like, oh, like, this person does this, so I’m not gonna touch that. It’s actually more of, like, when I speak to the ops team, you’re a unit. Like, I don’t want to have… I… this is where, like, I really want to stop saying at Ricoh, at… like, I want to say at ops.
118 00:15:55.430 ⇒ 00:16:00.690 Uttam Kumaran: And you guys figure out who does it, because think about, like, for the company, they want to go to a team.
119 00:16:00.970 ⇒ 00:16:05.879 Uttam Kumaran: There is a leader on the team who is responsible for the fact that these things are getting done.
120 00:16:06.020 ⇒ 00:16:13.469 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I want to be able to say, like, the team, hey, can you help me think through, like, what our priorities are, right? And so…
121 00:16:13.630 ⇒ 00:16:17.810 Uttam Kumaran: continuously thinking about what I like to say, saying the quiet part out loud.
122 00:16:18.050 ⇒ 00:16:20.460 Elizah Joy: It’s in the back of your mind, you’re like.
123 00:16:20.940 ⇒ 00:16:22.590 Uttam Kumaran: This meeting is not good.
124 00:16:22.760 ⇒ 00:16:27.020 Uttam Kumaran: if Utam was here, he would be like, what is this meeting? You should say that.
125 00:16:27.160 ⇒ 00:16:43.399 Uttam Kumaran: I’m telling you, because what you’ll find is that your gut instinct is most likely accurate, and it probably will come back later anyways, at some point, right? Some point, we’ll end up with this meeting. And so continue to try to trust that. Like, you know that deep down, and I think this is, again, like.
126 00:16:43.610 ⇒ 00:16:52.309 Uttam Kumaran: some of which our company, like, we have people that are from all different experiences, right? And so a lot of business is forcing people to, like.
127 00:16:52.530 ⇒ 00:16:57.809 Uttam Kumaran: not, like, raise their hand, or not cause too many issues, or, like… that’s not the case here.
128 00:16:57.980 ⇒ 00:17:06.249 Uttam Kumaran: There’s no politics here. Output is the only thing that matters, and I care about the fact that we’re getting things done, and that everybody’s happy doing them.
129 00:17:06.359 ⇒ 00:17:07.700 Uttam Kumaran: And so, like.
130 00:17:07.940 ⇒ 00:17:13.570 Uttam Kumaran: If you feel like you’re in a moment where something is a waste of time, it is your job to call it out.
131 00:17:13.740 ⇒ 00:17:26.880 Uttam Kumaran: If you feel like you’re in a moment where some people are misaligned, and you leave the meeting more confused than when you got there, you have to call it out. That is your job. So, that will be maybe my challenge for you this month.
132 00:17:27.510 ⇒ 00:17:30.749 Uttam Kumaran: And again, if you’re having challenges with that, ping me. Say, hey.
133 00:17:31.000 ⇒ 00:17:35.989 Uttam Kumaran: I left this meeting, and I feel this way, what do you think I should do? I will help you think through it.
134 00:17:36.800 ⇒ 00:17:39.319 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s also my ask for you, too.
135 00:17:39.500 ⇒ 00:17:42.619 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I think, on my end, the…
136 00:17:42.970 ⇒ 00:17:47.599 Elizah Joy: one of the… not the one, but the challenge that I do have is, like.
137 00:17:48.840 ⇒ 00:17:53.620 Elizah Joy: I don’t want to, like, overstep a lot with, like.
138 00:17:53.740 ⇒ 00:18:06.879 Elizah Joy: With the Shaishu’s role, right? So I think that’s my challenge, or even with, recall, right? So that’s what I don’t wanna, like, I’m having the biggest challenge on. Okay.
139 00:18:07.220 ⇒ 00:18:10.160 Elizah Joy: How can I, like, navigate that?
140 00:18:10.770 ⇒ 00:18:11.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
141 00:18:11.640 ⇒ 00:18:14.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, one is,
142 00:18:15.750 ⇒ 00:18:26.180 Uttam Kumaran: we all need to first agree on, like, what is the goal for the operations team, right? So, fundamentally, when you say, like, hey, you’re supposed to be doing, you’re supposed to be doing this, all of us are here to achieve a goal.
143 00:18:26.180 ⇒ 00:18:29.730 Elizah Joy: So I think that’s one first thing, is to consistently remind yourself.
144 00:18:30.380 ⇒ 00:18:34.760 Uttam Kumaran: The ops team is here to enable everybody in the company to do their jobs better.
145 00:18:35.090 ⇒ 00:18:37.360 Uttam Kumaran: And so, consistently…
146 00:18:37.430 ⇒ 00:18:52.909 Uttam Kumaran: grounding yourself in that is gonna be helpful. Second is open and honest conversation. And on your team, you have two… you guys are all three very empathetic, very nice people, so I don’t expect anybody to be, like, angry or anything. You know that’s not gonna happen.
147 00:18:52.930 ⇒ 00:19:08.239 Uttam Kumaran: But I think I’m expecting people to be vocal with, like, hey, I think our team could be better in this way. And using words like we, us, our team, is better than me, you, them, right? You can even see it’s, like, more accusatory.
148 00:19:08.510 ⇒ 00:19:13.829 Uttam Kumaran: You’re like, I do this, and I need you to do this. Never works well. Instead, like, hey guys.
149 00:19:13.930 ⇒ 00:19:22.220 Uttam Kumaran: I think we could be better if we did this thing this way, if we could clearly articulate responsibilities. And also, you have to manage up.
150 00:19:22.790 ⇒ 00:19:30.469 Uttam Kumaran: You guys… you and Rico, Shaysu is leading the team. So you guys… your guys’ job is not to lead the team.
151 00:19:30.700 ⇒ 00:19:33.799 Elizah Joy: Right? Yeah. So you should be clear with, like, hey.
152 00:19:33.820 ⇒ 00:19:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: Jaisha, your job is to answer these questions that Utam is asking about what our priorities are.
153 00:19:39.380 ⇒ 00:19:42.780 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re not asking them, you need to come to us to ask for help.
154 00:19:43.160 ⇒ 00:19:50.629 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m not gonna answer that question. And that’s also why I’m not… I’m not… I didn’t ping you on purpose, because he needs to answer that.
155 00:19:51.070 ⇒ 00:19:51.430 Elizah Joy: Good.
156 00:19:51.430 ⇒ 00:19:56.770 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s also where you need to manage up, and you just say, hey, That’s Shaishu’s job to do.
157 00:19:56.890 ⇒ 00:20:02.039 Uttam Kumaran: He’s the leader of the team, he should be able to answer those questions, because ultimately, he’s gonna say, great.
158 00:20:02.410 ⇒ 00:20:04.700 Uttam Kumaran: Eliza’s leading the Notion workstream.
159 00:20:05.010 ⇒ 00:20:08.820 Uttam Kumaran: she’s gonna report… she’s gonna tell me how it’s going, and then I’m gonna surface it up.
160 00:20:09.040 ⇒ 00:20:14.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s great. And so then, you can just go focus on doing your job, don’t… you don’t need to worry about
161 00:20:14.260 ⇒ 00:20:25.899 Uttam Kumaran: responding to all my Slacks and things like that. But you guys need to have those policies. You need to know within yourself, and some of this is gonna be unspoken. Like, you guys have to have a team chemistry.
162 00:20:26.290 ⇒ 00:20:26.609 Elizah Joy: to know.
163 00:20:26.610 ⇒ 00:20:30.880 Uttam Kumaran: that, like, someone’s… someone always has that UI, you have their back here.
164 00:20:31.060 ⇒ 00:20:37.960 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so that’s… we want to start to see that cohesion. So there has to be some team building within… within the ops team.
165 00:20:38.160 ⇒ 00:20:42.339 Uttam Kumaran: But I think that’s a great question, you know? Yeah, I hope that was a little bit helpful.
166 00:20:42.680 ⇒ 00:20:52.050 Elizah Joy: Yeah, it is, and I think, that’s one thing, like, we’ve discussed earlier during our op-sync, like, before we ended our op-sync, is that
167 00:20:52.210 ⇒ 00:21:04.990 Elizah Joy: like, the success of one, the success of the ops team depends on, like, every one of us. It’s not just Rico, not just on Teshu, not just on me. So us working cohesively on that.
168 00:21:05.130 ⇒ 00:21:15.130 Elizah Joy: And yeah, I think, A lot of the… I think for…
169 00:21:16.400 ⇒ 00:21:29.189 Elizah Joy: how can I say, like, the initial weeks in Notion, it’s like, we’re letting, like, Shishu lead on, that project, because he’s the head of ops, right? And…
170 00:21:29.860 ⇒ 00:21:32.830 Elizah Joy: I think it’s just…
171 00:21:32.970 ⇒ 00:21:42.300 Elizah Joy: I think what we can do on our end, like, for example, from Rika and I, is that I’m helping Shashu navigate that as well.
172 00:21:43.560 ⇒ 00:21:47.370 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Yeah, I also think that, too. And this is where, like…
173 00:21:47.580 ⇒ 00:21:57.149 Uttam Kumaran: again, if you see one of your teammates struggling, it’s for the team to be like, hey, why is this struggling? Because ultimately, I don’t want to go… I’m not interested in
174 00:21:57.360 ⇒ 00:21:59.779 Uttam Kumaran: blaming one person, I’m interested in blaming a team.
175 00:22:00.190 ⇒ 00:22:00.640 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
176 00:22:00.640 ⇒ 00:22:06.950 Uttam Kumaran: Because then, it’s like, again, I don’t want this to be, like, this person isn’t doing this person. That, you can let me figure out.
177 00:22:07.380 ⇒ 00:22:18.049 Uttam Kumaran: really, the feedback is this team is doing well or not doing well, right? And so, if you see someone on the team that’s struggling, and they’re kind of being blown up on that, you’re like, okay, what can I do?
178 00:22:18.590 ⇒ 00:22:25.239 Uttam Kumaran: and all you can do is try, right? And then, ultimately, if it doesn’t work, you can give me that feedback, or give them that feedback.
179 00:22:25.480 ⇒ 00:22:30.029 Uttam Kumaran: But ultimately, the Notion thing is not a Shashu project, it’s an ops team project.
180 00:22:30.360 ⇒ 00:22:46.000 Uttam Kumaran: he may be leading that, right? But I am always… but just because Rico didn’t work on it doesn’t mean he’s not gonna be responsible. The team is responsible for getting the things out, right? So that’s why, for me, that’s important. If… when you started the meeting, you mentioned, hey, we’re really busy.
181 00:22:46.040 ⇒ 00:23:01.489 Uttam Kumaran: okay, like, what are things that we’re working on that’s causing you to feel like you’re really busy, and I can help reprioritize or remove, that you guys can focus on feeling like a unit, right? Because what you’re gonna find is when you operate like a unit, you’re gonna be able to get two to three times more done.
182 00:23:01.740 ⇒ 00:23:13.110 Uttam Kumaran: Right? But you need to feel that, right? And so, that’s where, like, my ask is that continue to share feedback in Slack. If you don’t feel comfortable, you can just DM it to me, too. We can talk.
183 00:23:13.350 ⇒ 00:23:23.509 Uttam Kumaran: I would continue to leverage Clarence. He’s a great resource for this as well. Can walk you through, like, how to build great team structures, how to give critical feedback,
184 00:23:23.650 ⇒ 00:23:28.989 Uttam Kumaran: But again, if, like, maybe if we talk later this month or next month, that’s… I’m gonna come back to you and say.
185 00:23:29.410 ⇒ 00:23:33.250 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna both say, did we feel like Eliza was more vocal this month?
186 00:23:33.500 ⇒ 00:23:36.059 Uttam Kumaran: And did we feel like Eliza gave feedback?
187 00:23:36.170 ⇒ 00:23:39.169 Uttam Kumaran: And do we feel like ops is a tighter team?
188 00:23:39.380 ⇒ 00:23:40.890 Elizah Joy: Right? And that’s…
189 00:23:40.900 ⇒ 00:23:45.110 Uttam Kumaran: If you… to think about anything, those are gonna be my questions, right? Ultimately.
190 00:23:45.860 ⇒ 00:23:46.610 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
191 00:23:46.770 ⇒ 00:23:49.020 Elizah Joy: And I think, that is…
192 00:23:49.480 ⇒ 00:23:56.689 Elizah Joy: a good feedback that I needed, and a challenge for myself as well. Yeah, to be more vocal on that, like.
193 00:23:56.880 ⇒ 00:24:03.909 Elizah Joy: For example, like, with, with communication-wise, I think I haven’t…
194 00:24:04.350 ⇒ 00:24:09.410 Elizah Joy: develop that much of a relationship with the delivery team.
195 00:24:09.410 ⇒ 00:24:10.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
196 00:24:10.190 ⇒ 00:24:16.029 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I think, on my end, like, just, the GDM, finance, and then…
197 00:24:16.250 ⇒ 00:24:29.469 Elizah Joy: some person on the delivery team, but I don’t think I haven’t had that encounter yet with much of the people from the delivery team, so that’s what I’m also, challenging myself with, is that
198 00:24:29.560 ⇒ 00:24:40.900 Elizah Joy: As long as there’s an opportunity, of course, that… as long as I don’t take too much of their time, because I know that they are focused on the, the client delivery as well.
199 00:24:41.760 ⇒ 00:25:00.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and that’s where, again, like, I think just continue to do coffee chats, one or two a week, until you make your way through the company, right? I’m not gonna have a problem with you guys meeting them to learn and build a relationship, but I’m gonna have a problem if you’re calling them to work on something, because what you’re gonna find is they’re gonna work on it for hours and hours. You won’t see it.
200 00:25:01.230 ⇒ 00:25:04.849 Uttam Kumaran: And those… all those hours should have been going to clients.
201 00:25:04.850 ⇒ 00:25:08.009 Elizah Joy: So that’s the thing I want you guys to be a little bit conscious about.
202 00:25:08.010 ⇒ 00:25:19.029 Uttam Kumaran: Is that, like, engineers, they’re gonna just work. They just will, like, see this, and they’ll start working for you, but we have tons of client work that needs to be addressed right now, you know? And so…
203 00:25:19.130 ⇒ 00:25:21.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. Okay.
204 00:25:21.790 ⇒ 00:25:29.479 Elizah Joy: Yeah, and… for, what we’ve discussed earlier, for example, during the Our Ops Sync, that
205 00:25:29.490 ⇒ 00:25:37.650 Elizah Joy: We are, utilizing, like, linear more. For the past few weeks, we haven’t, like, not…
206 00:25:37.650 ⇒ 00:25:54.010 Elizah Joy: like, we’ve been using it at some point for, like, the tasks, but not all the tasks are in there, so I think what we’ve discussed earlier is for all three of us of having, like, visibility on the actual tasks that we’re working on, and not just
207 00:25:55.620 ⇒ 00:26:10.979 Elizah Joy: discussing it, if that makes sense, during the ops thing, so that, like, how we’re helping each other, because, for example, Rico would have free time, right? So he could take a look at, for example, my list, and then he can help on that same things.
208 00:26:10.980 ⇒ 00:26:19.899 Elizah Joy: goes with me, like, I can take a look at, the list of recalls, and then I can help on things on that if I do finish up my tasks.
209 00:26:20.040 ⇒ 00:26:23.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. So that’s what we’ve also discussed earlier, and I think.
210 00:26:23.710 ⇒ 00:26:26.969 Elizah Joy: Well, honestly, it’s starting to…
211 00:26:27.140 ⇒ 00:26:37.260 Elizah Joy: Not starting the show, but it’s really showing that, for us and the ops team, is that we really need to communicate more and be more
212 00:26:37.410 ⇒ 00:26:40.340 Elizah Joy: like…
213 00:26:42.300 ⇒ 00:26:49.829 Elizah Joy: supportive in a constructive way with each other, and… Yes. But of course, still being mindful of that.
214 00:26:51.820 ⇒ 00:26:57.479 Elizah Joy: We’re here to help each other, and then not, like, even with the feedbacks, it’s not…
215 00:26:57.670 ⇒ 00:27:06.100 Elizah Joy: like an attack or something, but something for all of us to work on, and to… for all of us to be successful at Brainforge, of course.
216 00:27:06.100 ⇒ 00:27:06.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
217 00:27:07.030 ⇒ 00:27:12.669 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree. And so this is where, like, I think a really tactically, if you’re like, hey, how do we run a better stand-up?
218 00:27:12.760 ⇒ 00:27:17.729 Elizah Joy: Call… ask Clarence to join one of your ops stand-ups, and tell him to give you guys feedback.
219 00:27:18.040 ⇒ 00:27:22.420 Uttam Kumaran: Like, say, hey, here’s how we usually run it, how can we run this better? He’ll give you guys feedback.
220 00:27:22.420 ⇒ 00:27:23.000 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
221 00:27:23.000 ⇒ 00:27:37.469 Uttam Kumaran: Take it upon yourself to do it. Don’t wait. Don’t wait. That’s the other thing, is like, if you think something should be done, you have the latitude to go do it, right? You don’t need to wait for other people to tell you. It’s your… because it’s affecting your life, right, and your day-to-day.
222 00:27:39.920 ⇒ 00:27:51.750 Elizah Joy: Yeah, I think… yeah, I’ll do that one, and… yeah, I think when… if, for example, Clarence joined the previous standups we did, he’s gonna have a lot of feedback on that.
223 00:27:51.750 ⇒ 00:27:52.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
224 00:27:53.330 ⇒ 00:28:06.270 Elizah Joy: Before, Rika and I, we do this thing wherein we go through the linear tasks, just like the data team, and then the, sales team does their stand-ups, but it’s just gotten, like.
225 00:28:06.590 ⇒ 00:28:11.239 Elizah Joy: Recently, like, for the past few weeks, I don’t think we have gone through linear.
226 00:28:11.820 ⇒ 00:28:18.869 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay. I mean, but that’s the thing, also, like, the stand-up should… should be more like, what’s… what is at risk today?
227 00:28:19.120 ⇒ 00:28:19.840 Elizah Joy: Hmm…
228 00:28:19.840 ⇒ 00:28:28.870 Uttam Kumaran: less of, like, what’s my to-do, what’s your to-do, because, like, that has nothing to do with me. Instead, it should be like, hey, this is gonna be tough today, does anyone have time? That should be, like, what the…
229 00:28:29.270 ⇒ 00:28:33.900 Uttam Kumaran: what the stand-ups are, right? So… Yeah.
230 00:28:34.580 ⇒ 00:28:35.330 Elizah Joy: Yeah.
231 00:28:35.660 ⇒ 00:28:45.609 Elizah Joy: And I think, yeah, from the ops team, like, we’ll, we’ll work on these, like, feedbacks that we get, and of course, I’ll do…
232 00:28:46.070 ⇒ 00:28:51.840 Elizah Joy: I’ll do take that challenge for this month. Yeah.
233 00:28:51.950 ⇒ 00:28:53.969 Elizah Joy: That and to be more vocal.
234 00:28:54.400 ⇒ 00:28:55.540 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
235 00:28:56.120 ⇒ 00:29:04.229 Uttam Kumaran: Great. Well, thank you, Eliza, for the time. Sorry, I know this was, like, a little bit of, like, me asking a lot of questions, but this is super helpful to hear, so I hope it was,
236 00:29:04.350 ⇒ 00:29:05.999 Uttam Kumaran: Productive and helpful, too.
237 00:29:06.190 ⇒ 00:29:17.900 Elizah Joy: Yes, actually, yeah, it’s very helpful, because I was going to ask if you have any feedback, because it’s, I think, more than 60 days for me. Yeah. Yeah, I do appreciate having this feedback, just so you know.
238 00:29:17.900 ⇒ 00:29:18.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
239 00:29:18.980 ⇒ 00:29:26.139 Elizah Joy: have, like, other feedbacks, just message me on Slack, because, I do, like how getting feedbacks.
240 00:29:26.380 ⇒ 00:29:29.779 Elizah Joy: So that I know how to grow and improve on my role.
241 00:29:30.200 ⇒ 00:29:31.290 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect. Okay.
242 00:29:31.660 ⇒ 00:29:34.030 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, well, thank you, then I’ll talk to you soon.
243 00:29:34.030 ⇒ 00:29:35.679 Elizah Joy: Alright, thanks, Udam.
244 00:29:35.680 ⇒ 00:29:37.030 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, bye.
245 00:29:37.030 ⇒ 00:29:37.980 Elizah Joy: Goodbye.