Meeting Title: Brainforge x Proper Hotel Date: 2026-02-09 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, payas.parab
WEBVTT
1 00:00:56.280 ⇒ 00:00:57.370 payas.parab: Hey, what’s up, dude?
2 00:00:58.950 ⇒ 00:00:59.690 Robert Tseng: Ayy!
3 00:01:01.140 ⇒ 00:01:02.450 Robert Tseng: Good, how are you?
4 00:01:03.000 ⇒ 00:01:04.730 payas.parab: I’m doing alright, man.
5 00:01:07.580 ⇒ 00:01:09.089 Robert Tseng: Hello, hello, can you hear me?
6 00:01:09.360 ⇒ 00:01:11.259 payas.parab: Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
7 00:01:17.420 ⇒ 00:01:20.429 Robert Tseng: I… is it me, or is it you?
8 00:01:20.430 ⇒ 00:01:21.110 payas.parab: I think my mind.
9 00:01:21.110 ⇒ 00:01:21.740 Robert Tseng: microphone is…
10 00:01:21.740 ⇒ 00:01:22.140 payas.parab: working.
11 00:01:23.220 ⇒ 00:01:24.750 payas.parab: Hold on.
12 00:01:25.060 ⇒ 00:01:29.480 Robert Tseng: Testing, testing… I hear your audio coming through, but it’s pretty lagged.
13 00:01:31.260 ⇒ 00:01:33.850 Robert Tseng: Oh, it’s my… I can’t…
14 00:01:35.040 ⇒ 00:01:36.359 payas.parab: Can you hear me better now?
15 00:01:39.970 ⇒ 00:01:40.710 Robert Tseng: Okay.
16 00:01:41.810 ⇒ 00:01:45.480 Robert Tseng: Sorry, it might be me, too. Let me see if I can reset this.
17 00:02:01.690 ⇒ 00:02:03.499 payas.parab: You’re frozen for me, I don’t know.
18 00:02:07.550 ⇒ 00:02:09.020 payas.parab: Check which Wi-Fi button.
19 00:03:28.650 ⇒ 00:03:30.080 Robert Tseng: Hey, is that better?
20 00:03:30.310 ⇒ 00:03:31.790 payas.parab: Yeah, I can hear you a lot better now.
21 00:03:31.790 ⇒ 00:03:33.360 Robert Tseng: Okay.
22 00:03:34.510 ⇒ 00:03:35.580 Robert Tseng: Sorry.
23 00:03:35.720 ⇒ 00:03:40.690 Robert Tseng: I’ve been on calls for the past hour and a half, and it was fine.
24 00:03:41.130 ⇒ 00:03:43.059 Robert Tseng: Just decided to stop working.
25 00:03:43.620 ⇒ 00:03:45.079 payas.parab: Are you in, like, a lobby somewhere?
26 00:03:46.600 ⇒ 00:03:52.699 Robert Tseng: I’m in an airport lounge. I’m flying back to New York in, like, maybe 2 hours.
27 00:03:53.200 ⇒ 00:03:56.900 payas.parab: Nice, nice. Awesome. Let me just ping.
28 00:03:56.900 ⇒ 00:03:57.220 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
29 00:03:57.220 ⇒ 00:03:58.569 payas.parab: I can see if he’s joining.
30 00:03:59.550 ⇒ 00:04:01.500 Robert Tseng: Okay.
31 00:04:02.370 ⇒ 00:04:03.140 Robert Tseng: Excellent.
32 00:04:07.080 ⇒ 00:04:07.780 Robert Tseng: Welcome.
33 00:04:14.980 ⇒ 00:04:17.050 payas.parab: I don’t think he accepted the invite, so…
34 00:04:17.370 ⇒ 00:04:22.710 payas.parab: It’s fine, we can kick things off. If he joins, he joins. Basically…
35 00:04:22.710 ⇒ 00:04:23.350 Robert Tseng: Sure.
36 00:04:23.880 ⇒ 00:04:29.510 payas.parab: The background is… I can’t join. He got dragged into something.
37 00:04:31.850 ⇒ 00:04:32.440 Robert Tseng: Okay.
38 00:04:32.910 ⇒ 00:04:39.300 payas.parab: So, basically, the background here is, like, I’ve been hired As the sole analytics engineer.
39 00:04:39.600 ⇒ 00:04:43.810 payas.parab: For Proper Hospitality Group. Nice.
40 00:04:43.940 ⇒ 00:04:44.610 payas.parab: So…
41 00:04:44.610 ⇒ 00:04:45.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
42 00:04:45.250 ⇒ 00:04:50.880 payas.parab: I’m basically… I’m the only engineer outside of, like, the guys who manage all the hardware and systems.
43 00:04:51.220 ⇒ 00:04:55.600 payas.parab: And so there’s, like, a whole gigantic wish list of, like.
44 00:04:55.980 ⇒ 00:05:06.109 payas.parab: Data, data warehouse, like, pipelines, analytics, like, you know, you know how it is, like, when you’re, like, the one-man show, it’s like, the wishlist becomes, like, insane.
45 00:05:06.250 ⇒ 00:05:09.260 payas.parab: We have vendors that are, like.
46 00:05:09.920 ⇒ 00:05:13.829 payas.parab: I think we’re fine, like, I don’t… I don’t hate them, let’s put it that way.
47 00:05:14.030 ⇒ 00:05:17.629 payas.parab: But I think they’re, like, really costly, and they’re, like.
48 00:05:17.780 ⇒ 00:05:21.379 payas.parab: Heading down, like, suboptimal routes is basically where my head’s at.
49 00:05:21.580 ⇒ 00:05:23.349 payas.parab: I’ll give you an example, it’s like… Sure.
50 00:05:23.970 ⇒ 00:05:40.189 payas.parab: you know, we’ve kind of… basically, until I came along, like, I’m, like, I’ve, like, basically moved in a week on, like, getting a warehouse set up and actually moving that forward. Outside of that, it was stalled for, like, 2 months, because no one was sure who was gonna build to it, who was gonna maintain and govern it.
51 00:05:40.290 ⇒ 00:05:45.280 payas.parab: But there’s, for example, like, a marketing has a vendor that
52 00:05:45.510 ⇒ 00:05:48.949 payas.parab: does, like, data pipelining into, like, Klaviyo, for example.
53 00:05:49.230 ⇒ 00:05:52.440 payas.parab: And then sales has their own vendor that does, like.
54 00:05:52.620 ⇒ 00:05:57.699 payas.parab: dashboards and visualizations with data piping out of, like, Salesforce.
55 00:05:57.870 ⇒ 00:06:17.390 payas.parab: And all these streams are just, like, running on their own, so the view is, like, my boss, Mike, we’ll meet, we have a follow-up meeting. Mike is the chief of staff for the CEO, and so his job is kind of, like, wrangling in everything together, and one of those key pieces is, like, data and analytics, and that’s where I come in, which is…
56 00:06:18.340 ⇒ 00:06:34.659 payas.parab: we want to make a clear vendor strategy, we want to make a clear, like, warehouse, and, like, what data goes in first, and how do we warehouse it, and then who helps us build all of these connections. I mean, you can imagine the list is, like, massive, right? Like, I’m working on, like, one for finance, one for revenue management.
57 00:06:34.760 ⇒ 00:06:40.360 payas.parab: One for… like, marketing has some wish lists around, like, building, like, a customer identity graph.
58 00:06:40.520 ⇒ 00:06:47.420 payas.parab: I’m… I’m pretty arrogant, but not so arrogant that I know I can handle all this on my own. And so, you know.
59 00:06:47.670 ⇒ 00:07:01.880 payas.parab: We’re trying to find what vendors can help us slot in and solve some of these problems, right? So my view is, like, can I build… bring in some folks from Brainforge that can, like, run a stream for me in, like, a two-week sprint, right? So I’m, like.
60 00:07:01.880 ⇒ 00:07:02.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
61 00:07:02.260 ⇒ 00:07:21.289 payas.parab: hey, I’m gonna get the data warehouse set up, and, like, I’ve got to deal with this, like, vendor negotiations on, like, the data syncing and the feeds. That’s gonna be in my house, but, like, meanwhile, finance is gonna be sitting, being like, we’ve… you already have API access, we already have some of these pipelines, why aren’t there, like, production-level tables? Why aren’t there, like, analytics layers?
62 00:07:21.330 ⇒ 00:07:25.400 payas.parab: In 3 weeks, that’s what’s gonna get asked to me, right? So I’m trying to, like, hedge against that.
63 00:07:25.700 ⇒ 00:07:34.270 payas.parab: by figuring out what the vendor strategy looks like. And the vendor strategy has been very scattered, and it hasn’t been very thorough, and so…
64 00:07:34.490 ⇒ 00:07:40.030 payas.parab: it’s kind of just been, like, raw dogging, like, I have, like, a specific use case, let me go find a…
65 00:07:40.450 ⇒ 00:07:45.119 payas.parab: Data vendor, data engineering vendor, to, like, go and solve that problem.
66 00:07:46.510 ⇒ 00:08:00.990 payas.parab: And we need it to be a more cohesive and, like, thoughtful strategy, basically. Because I can see with certain things, it’s like, we’ve already barreled towards, like, extremely suboptimal setups, because it was, like, use case specific, or, like.
67 00:08:01.140 ⇒ 00:08:07.610 payas.parab: hinged on some timeline that wasn’t about, like, getting it done correctly. It was about getting some specific use case thing done.
68 00:08:07.860 ⇒ 00:08:11.059 payas.parab: So I’ll pause there. That’s, like, all the background I’ll give you.
69 00:08:11.160 ⇒ 00:08:14.890 payas.parab: Yeah, I’m curious if you have thoughts on, like, what would be…
70 00:08:15.200 ⇒ 00:08:19.249 payas.parab: Best next steps, how Brainforge could step in and help us, that type of thing.
71 00:08:20.330 ⇒ 00:08:32.470 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. I think it’s great having you kind of be in there, you’re… I mean, it sounds like you’ll… you’ll be setting the prioritization, and I guess, like, I mean, we’re used to in situations where we are basically coming in and
72 00:08:32.750 ⇒ 00:08:40.119 Robert Tseng: Meeting everyone in the room, deciding, like, which work streams to prioritize, typically ends up being marketing.
73 00:08:40.120 ⇒ 00:08:55.269 Robert Tseng: Because that’s closer… closer to revenue, or maybe there’s, like, a finance thing, because they’re, like, close to raising a round, because… and they… they just need to get that in order. So, I think those are probably both… those… both… both of those worlds are probably where we…
74 00:08:55.390 ⇒ 00:09:00.680 Robert Tseng: are most effective. Like, the staff that we have are most used to working in the marketing and finance domains at this point.
75 00:09:00.680 ⇒ 00:09:01.340 payas.parab: Sure.
76 00:09:01.340 ⇒ 00:09:12.659 Robert Tseng: So if that’s… if that gives you, like, kind of a better sense of where we could plug in immediately, I think that’s… that’s kind of our stance. And then as far as, like, kind of architecting the best infrastructure.
77 00:09:12.660 ⇒ 00:09:27.579 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think I understand your concerns about Snowflake, 5-track cost stacking, and we’re always making these, like, kind of decisions with our clients. I kind of shared our typical stack at this point, so, I think it’d be very hard to kind of
78 00:09:27.980 ⇒ 00:09:40.359 Robert Tseng: pull your existing team off of whatever they’re doing, and wean them off of that into, you know, what you want to build. But, like, if you have, like, a… I mean, I think our advice is really just to
79 00:09:40.360 ⇒ 00:09:51.860 Robert Tseng: pick a champion that you have that’s, like, really on board with you building it for them, and then, like, kind of getting them, their whole team, rallying around that. You know, you worked with us on Xavi, and, like, one of the big problems there was, like.
80 00:09:51.880 ⇒ 00:10:04.690 Robert Tseng: I mean, the… the… our champion was not… didn’t really have any influence over the end user, right? He was just, like, a man making those technical decisions, maybe similar to, like, a part of your scope, but then he had no, like.
81 00:10:04.840 ⇒ 00:10:20.359 Robert Tseng: he had no influence over how people were actually using the tools. And so, that’s kind of where I feel like data stacks, like, get… get, like, just, they just die, because they just… there just isn’t really, like, a good feedback loop, and trust, really, with our main stakeholder. So,
82 00:10:20.710 ⇒ 00:10:31.039 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, like, I have a lot of opinions on, like, what to optimize, like, I think we wouldn’t probably use Fivetran, unless it’s, like.
83 00:10:31.060 ⇒ 00:10:46.090 Robert Tseng: just, like, enterprise-level, like, connectors that they’re… that they’re using, I don’t know, like your Salesforce connector, like, you absolutely need to be up… it needs to be up all the time. But otherwise, we opt for, like, a vendor like Polytomic, where, you know, they’re, like, a third of the price of Fivetran, and it’s fixed pricing.
84 00:10:46.090 ⇒ 00:10:54.760 Robert Tseng: Based by connector and not by volumes. So, like, there’s just different guardrails that, like, I could definitely give you opinions on to keep your costs low.
85 00:10:55.100 ⇒ 00:10:55.480 payas.parab: Yeah.
86 00:10:56.570 ⇒ 00:11:03.020 payas.parab: I mean, the problem is, like, we have a lot of, like, non-technical, non-data people, and, like, these things cost a shit ton, and, like, if you’re…
87 00:11:03.020 ⇒ 00:11:03.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
88 00:11:03.440 ⇒ 00:11:18.060 payas.parab: you know, when I was at a Series A tech company, it was like, no problem. Like, I was like, oh, you need this tool? Oh, it’s only 10,000 funds, like.
89 00:11:18.130 ⇒ 00:11:31.729 payas.parab: all of the flatware for a restaurant, you know what I mean? Like, it’s like, that’s the type of OPEX you’re, like, heading up against. It’s not like a tech budget, so we gotta be, like, extremely cautious and, like, thoughtful about which steps we take, and, like.
90 00:11:31.810 ⇒ 00:11:37.019 payas.parab: at a cost. The other thing that sucks is… I don’t know, do you guys have any hospitality clients?
91 00:11:37.840 ⇒ 00:11:40.859 Robert Tseng: Not right now, but we have worked with hospitality before.
92 00:11:41.420 ⇒ 00:11:44.349 payas.parab: Like, some of these tech systems, like, are old.
93 00:11:44.350 ⇒ 00:11:46.709 Robert Tseng: AF, like, we’re talking old, like.
94 00:11:46.870 ⇒ 00:11:57.330 payas.parab: And it’s like, oh my god, like, you know, there’s a custom data feed set up that has, like, XML that gets dropped into some SFTP protocol, you gotta, like, clean it and then dump it, like…
95 00:11:57.440 ⇒ 00:12:02.030 payas.parab: We have, like, solutions that we’re working on with some of these vendors,
96 00:12:02.410 ⇒ 00:12:04.460 payas.parab: But my, my issue is, is like…
97 00:12:04.620 ⇒ 00:12:11.800 payas.parab: I have to make, like, high-level architecting decisions, I have to make… deal with vendor relations, and then I also have to deal with
98 00:12:11.920 ⇒ 00:12:30.700 payas.parab: internal stakeholder management and evangelization, right? Of, like, justifying my existence here. And so, when do I get hands-on keyboard time, right? That’s the big… the… like, the struggle here isn’t, like, yeah, like, I’m not gonna be like, oh, who needs this shit? Who cares? You don’t have to convince me. It’s gonna be a matter of, like, I need…
99 00:12:30.880 ⇒ 00:12:45.550 payas.parab: hands-on keyboard time, or, like, even, like, some project management with some key stakeholders, like, managed by the teams I’ve worked with, you know what I mean? Like, I know exactly what I’m getting, and I know exactly, like, okay, great, like, an analyst like Annie, can you, like.
100 00:12:45.670 ⇒ 00:12:52.979 payas.parab: I need to, like, estimate our forecasting error for our finance team. Can you go run and get that done for me by Friday?
101 00:12:53.180 ⇒ 00:13:08.019 payas.parab: And, like, you know, and then, hey, you know, this pipeline to Infor, there’s a bunch of, like, shitty, crappy data. It’s just a lot of scripts and cleaning, and I can send, like, a Ryan, Luke, whatever he goes by, you know, on that stream, right? And then, like, a…
102 00:13:08.390 ⇒ 00:13:24.159 payas.parab: okay, Robert, I need your help on, like, a… you know, we gotta figure out polyatomic versus portable versus whatever, you know? I know exactly what I’m getting, and it’s just about, like, can I cost-effectively bring in these resources? Because what happens with the other vendors is, like.
103 00:13:24.270 ⇒ 00:13:28.389 payas.parab: They’re not bringing me, like, a diversified rate card, they’re not bringing me, like.
104 00:13:28.520 ⇒ 00:13:34.289 payas.parab: a package deal, they’re just like, here’s a guy who codes for our marketing agency, and like that…
105 00:13:34.410 ⇒ 00:13:52.359 payas.parab: is, in my opinion, very suboptimal, and I can see we’re barreling towards suboptimal. Like, the CEO of that agency sent me their, like, proposal for the data warehouse, and I’m reading it, and I’m like, you’ve clearly never done this before. You know what I mean? Like, I’m like, I’m like, this is, like, a new thing, and I know that, like, if you read that email, you’d be like.
106 00:13:52.440 ⇒ 00:14:02.129 payas.parab: this is fucking stupid, and you shouldn’t do it this way, because that’s how I read it, you know? Thanks to your training, right? You trained me, right? Like, you and Utam trained me.
107 00:14:02.250 ⇒ 00:14:20.409 payas.parab: So you guys would read this from the agency and be like, this is dumb, and we need to do this in a better way. And then I’m like, okay, I agree, I know we need to do it in a better way, and then I just don’t have the resources if you’re, like, talking about, like, my 8 hours of meetings with internal stakeholders, 8 hours on vendor discussions and vendor strategy.
108 00:14:20.590 ⇒ 00:14:23.130 payas.parab: you know, like, there’s just, like, when would I get that?
109 00:14:23.240 ⇒ 00:14:25.330 payas.parab: Cranking of the code done, you know?
110 00:14:25.640 ⇒ 00:14:26.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
111 00:14:26.630 ⇒ 00:14:28.630 payas.parab: So, I don’t know if that, like…
112 00:14:28.910 ⇒ 00:14:37.709 payas.parab: what’s the best way for you guys to kind of put together a proposal for us? I, like, am pretty confident on your guys’ skills, like, I’m quite confident.
113 00:14:38.010 ⇒ 00:14:40.320 payas.parab: I like…
114 00:14:40.800 ⇒ 00:14:48.419 payas.parab: You know, as, like… we have some other folks we’re also talking to, just to, like, make sure there’s no, like, unbiased opinion, but as far as, like, quality.
115 00:14:48.920 ⇒ 00:15:06.309 payas.parab: that I would get, you guys would probably rank the highest on the quality. I don’t know if the cost will justify, right? Like, I don’t know if, like, when I put together a financial proposal, and this financial proposal is for, like, non-technical people, reminder, right? So we have to, like, justify and make clear what we’re doing and why we’re investing in it.
116 00:15:06.490 ⇒ 00:15:15.000 payas.parab: But I’m not, like, worried about the quality you guys would deliver at all. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not even an open question. It’s like, these guys will get it done.
117 00:15:15.000 ⇒ 00:15:15.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
118 00:15:15.340 ⇒ 00:15:21.360 payas.parab: two vendors I’ve already spoken to, and I got looped into, and I’m like, I seriously question the quality of the work that they’re doing.
119 00:15:24.720 ⇒ 00:15:31.440 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah, I mean, I guess, like, typically what we do for proposals is… I mean, we… I mean…
120 00:15:31.550 ⇒ 00:15:39.849 Robert Tseng: We would try to pick, like, a project, and that’s how we would start. But if you… since you’ve already worked with us before, you kind of know what you’re getting.
121 00:15:39.990 ⇒ 00:15:50.479 Robert Tseng: I mean, we could give you a rate card, and you just kind of pick off of that, but I don’t know if that’s enough for you to make the case for us. So, yeah, like, I think…
122 00:15:50.910 ⇒ 00:16:01.180 Robert Tseng: if there’s a way to kind of rally around, like, you… on one initiative, like, one workflow, then, like, I think that we can price… we can price around that.
123 00:16:01.320 ⇒ 00:16:06.059 Robert Tseng: But, yeah, I mean, otherwise, like, we’re, you know, we’re…
124 00:16:07.250 ⇒ 00:16:22.720 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it would just… it would just go off of our… we would just go give you our rate chart, which is not necessarily the most cost… cost optimized. Like, it’s just gonna be everybody, like, different… 3 tiers of pricing, and, like, below… our lowest is… is…
125 00:16:22.720 ⇒ 00:16:33.999 Robert Tseng: 150, 250 an hour at this point. So, I think that’s… that’s kind of what, like, I would… I would put in front of you.
126 00:16:34.850 ⇒ 00:16:36.250 payas.parab: Yeah. Okay.
127 00:16:37.350 ⇒ 00:16:38.150 payas.parab: Alright.
128 00:16:40.140 ⇒ 00:16:42.820 payas.parab: Alright, then I think we should do the project-based.
129 00:16:43.490 ⇒ 00:16:46.690 payas.parab: Cause then the problem is, is, like, these other vendors, I, like…
130 00:16:46.810 ⇒ 00:16:58.630 payas.parab: they’re priced too hot, they’re priced on the higher end, in a similar ballpark, right? But then, like, it’s hard for me to make the case of, like, let’s disrupt one that’s already going, right? And bring in someone, unless there was, like.
131 00:16:58.740 ⇒ 00:17:05.169 payas.parab: a huge cost efficiency, if that makes sense, you know? Like, it, like, it’d be a little silly to, like, interrupt something.
132 00:17:05.619 ⇒ 00:17:10.339 payas.parab: So then, maybe we do a net new project, and we scope it at the project level.
133 00:17:10.569 ⇒ 00:17:12.490 payas.parab: for a specific use case, and I can, like.
134 00:17:12.750 ⇒ 00:17:16.359 payas.parab: Ponder which one is the best one, but… Yeah.
135 00:17:18.130 ⇒ 00:17:33.259 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, like, sounds like the snowflake connection thing is something we could price towards, like, I think that’s pretty easy. We’ve done a lot of, like, Snowflake build-ups, so, like, I… we can… I have, like, some… I have some templates that we can kind of just work with and try to make it fit to your situation.
136 00:17:33.260 ⇒ 00:17:43.029 Robert Tseng: The product analytics seems like it’s a net new workstream. I don’t know what the appetite is for that yet, or how much your team thinks it’s gonna cost. That feels like it’s a bit early, like…
137 00:17:43.060 ⇒ 00:17:56.240 Robert Tseng: I just talked to a product analytics, like, lead, like, 30 minutes ago, and she had no idea what the price would be. I put it in front of her, like, we’ll see, I’m not that confident that she’s gonna be able to move forward with that.
138 00:17:56.550 ⇒ 00:18:02.839 payas.parab: Yeah, there is a product analytics, so there’s one area that I think…
139 00:18:03.050 ⇒ 00:18:05.369 Robert Tseng: Custom implementation… yeah, okay.
140 00:18:06.400 ⇒ 00:18:11.079 Robert Tseng: They’re all good. I think we’re a little bit audio delayed, so we just talked over each other a bit.
141 00:18:11.080 ⇒ 00:18:12.500 payas.parab: No worries, continue, Yaglan.
142 00:18:16.860 ⇒ 00:18:33.919 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, I was just gonna… I was just saying, like, the custom implementation for the lead researcher, I mean, that to me reads as, like, a custom AI project. Like, we’ve built pretty much internal AI platforms for companies at this point. We have a few agency clients that we pretty much have built out their go-to-market tooling, because that’s what we use for ourselves.
143 00:18:33.920 ⇒ 00:18:37.920 Robert Tseng: So, like, that’s another project that we… I could feel like we could… we could…
144 00:18:37.920 ⇒ 00:18:51.400 Robert Tseng: we could easily scope… we could easily scope and price for you. So, I mean, those are… between the Snowflake one and, like, the custom… the custom AI kind of, like, internal tooling thing, those are probably the two that I feel like we could…
145 00:18:51.420 ⇒ 00:18:53.310 Robert Tseng: I mean, unless there’s more, like.
146 00:18:53.310 ⇒ 00:19:01.290 payas.parab: No, no, no, I think you’ve nailed it. You’ve nailed it. It’s the… I think the internal tooling is a good one. The only struggle there, and I can already tell you, is, like.
147 00:19:01.530 ⇒ 00:19:08.230 payas.parab: they’re like, well, you can build to the OpenAI API, right? So then, like, and you can build to our lead researcher and our
148 00:19:08.280 ⇒ 00:19:22.200 payas.parab: third-party vendor we’ve already hired connects to Salesforce and is, like, pulling in our data around some of the leads, like, that we have, so they’re, like… Yeah. Their argument is, like, why can’t you stitch it together? And that’s actually a fair argument, right? Time is the only barrier, but then…
149 00:19:22.210 ⇒ 00:19:30.909 payas.parab: what the hell are we paying you for, right? That’s the only barrier I would see. So, like… but I’d actually like to see that scope, because it is something that’s top of mind for our salespeople, because, like.
150 00:19:30.940 ⇒ 00:19:35.330 payas.parab: the sales funnel is massive here, like, it’s actually massive, and our salespeople are, like.
151 00:19:35.820 ⇒ 00:19:53.300 payas.parab: They’re actually, like, flooded in emails right now. Part of the reason is, is, like, specifically in hospitality, is, like, you have to negotiate rates, and the rates aren’t cleared by salespeople. The salesperson doesn’t have the authority to say, like, Santa Monica proper, $500 a room for a block of 20 rooms. They have to, like, go to somebody else and then come back.
152 00:19:53.550 ⇒ 00:20:13.200 payas.parab: Yeah. And then they, like, get a lot of inbound of people who are, like, not super serious, or, like, don’t know what group booking means. It’s not like they’ve, like, done it before, so they, like, end up having to do a lot of client handholding, so they, like… we need to speed up their time, and their time is… a decent amount is set up on, like, lead research. So, like, prepping for a meeting.
153 00:20:13.280 ⇒ 00:20:30.470 payas.parab: okay, what’s this company? They want to do an off-site at one of our hotels. Who are the key people? Who am I talking to? We need that to be, like, automated, and like, I mean, I can do it, probably, right? Like, it’s not like I can’t, but it may not be the most valuable thing for me to do, is my argument, right? Even if it’s like, I can.
154 00:20:30.640 ⇒ 00:20:35.730 payas.parab: There’s more value in me building the customer identity graph, there’s more value in me building…
155 00:20:35.920 ⇒ 00:20:41.510 payas.parab: The, like, revenue management-specific automations, right, that require a bunch of different systems.
156 00:20:42.330 ⇒ 00:20:42.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
157 00:20:42.980 ⇒ 00:20:52.910 payas.parab: So, I would love a scope on that, on the lead researcher. Keep in mind, we don’t use Slack, so it would have to be an Outlook client-connected thing. I could help you get that set up.
158 00:20:53.300 ⇒ 00:21:04.470 payas.parab: it would have to be an Outlook-based, but, like, I remember what it looks like, you know what I mean? Like, I remember it was, like, you just at Lead Researcher, and you’re, like, basically the flow would… the automation flow would just change from, like.
159 00:21:04.470 ⇒ 00:21:04.880 Robert Tseng: It’s…
160 00:21:04.880 ⇒ 00:21:07.800 payas.parab: an email, right? That, like, we would CC, like.
161 00:21:07.960 ⇒ 00:21:20.300 payas.parab: whatever, lead researcher at properhotel.com, and then you guys would be able to, like, give us the backend that would, like, process that, research it, and dump back to the thread. That’s easy enough to do.
162 00:21:20.300 ⇒ 00:21:21.340 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally.
163 00:21:21.340 ⇒ 00:21:26.799 payas.parab: So that one would be one that would be great to be scoped. That one, I will tell you, the biggest one, I think.
164 00:21:27.400 ⇒ 00:21:32.020 payas.parab: the biggest net new opportunity, right? If there’s, like, a way for us to, like, get in here and, like.
165 00:21:32.540 ⇒ 00:21:39.250 payas.parab: bring you guys in. It’s, it’s the food and beverage, food and beverage analytics. So…
166 00:21:39.420 ⇒ 00:21:40.180 Robert Tseng: Okay.
167 00:21:40.350 ⇒ 00:21:47.430 payas.parab: Toast, primarily, for all of our POS systems. I am going to need toast data to build the identity graph.
168 00:21:47.660 ⇒ 00:21:50.309 payas.parab: In the next, like, month, basically.
169 00:21:50.590 ⇒ 00:21:53.910 payas.parab: So that data needs to be in the warehouse, and…
170 00:21:53.990 ⇒ 00:22:05.620 payas.parab: it’s, like, kind of not trivial, like, it’s doable, but it’s not trivial to, like, bring in and process all that data from Toast, right? And, like, turn it into production tables. There’s also a piece of, like.
171 00:22:05.640 ⇒ 00:22:18.919 payas.parab: we’ve hired a new VP of Food and Bev, who’s just onboarded, like, a month or two ago, so he, like, hasn’t had time to focus on the analytics stack, so for us, it’s, like, an easy net new win, where there isn’t some, like.
172 00:22:19.110 ⇒ 00:22:36.390 payas.parab: like, I’ll tell you, like, with certain departments, we’re fighting with, like, people who’ve been doing this for, like, a decade, and, like, I have to tread really lightly about how I go, like, we’re gonna rip this shit out and do it again, but better. I have to tread a little lightly, but Food and Bev is one of them, where we don’t have to, so if you guys can connect to the Toast API,
173 00:22:36.500 ⇒ 00:22:53.790 payas.parab: build me clean data pipelines that are going to help me with the customer identity graph, food and beverage analytics and some basic dashboarding. That would be, like, the best one to scope at, like, a project level, as opposed to, like, the rate card approach. And then I can present that directly to CEO-food and Bev head.
174 00:22:56.750 ⇒ 00:23:13.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. I mean, I think what, you know, so definitely we can do… we can do the engineering part fine. I think why… why we’ve been able to charge more is because, like, we get involved in the strategy side a lot, so what I would like to do in a project like that is I were to put at least two people on that project.
175 00:23:13.530 ⇒ 00:23:18.369 Robert Tseng: I’d like to put, like, a… like, a Jasmine on that project, plus, like, one of our senior DEs.
176 00:23:18.370 ⇒ 00:23:20.749 Robert Tseng: Jasmine still works? I mean, yeah, you’re not gonna be getting, like…
177 00:23:20.750 ⇒ 00:23:21.430 payas.parab: as Jasmine’s.
178 00:23:21.430 ⇒ 00:23:22.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah, she’s…
179 00:23:23.130 ⇒ 00:23:29.670 Robert Tseng: She, she’s gonna… she’s gonna… I mean, she’s… she’s… she’s, she’s working with us again, so…
180 00:23:29.990 ⇒ 00:23:30.330 payas.parab: Yeah.
181 00:23:30.760 ⇒ 00:23:42.360 Robert Tseng: for… we’ll see. I think, she’s not… she’s not with us full-time yet, but, you know, if I can get her… if she can bill enough hours to make it make sense, then I’m happy to bring her back on full-time.
182 00:23:42.620 ⇒ 00:23:43.210 payas.parab: That’s awesome.
183 00:23:43.210 ⇒ 00:23:46.530 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… so…
184 00:23:46.590 ⇒ 00:24:00.589 Robert Tseng: someone like her, I think she can work with stakeholders directly, and she can gather requirements, figure out, like, what does success look like, and help us, like, to actually go for an outcome. So that’s… that’s typically how we’ve seen.
185 00:24:00.590 ⇒ 00:24:07.239 Robert Tseng: works the best with our engagements. Otherwise, it could just be, like, a one-time setup thing. So, like, I think we can figure that out as we go.
186 00:24:07.240 ⇒ 00:24:13.119 Robert Tseng: But, that’s… that’s probably what I… that’s… that’s how I’m thinking about… about it right now.
187 00:24:13.120 ⇒ 00:24:19.090 payas.parab: for… is there someone on DE that you could… so it’d be one DE, one DA, to kind of staff across that?
188 00:24:19.930 ⇒ 00:24:21.550 Robert Tseng: Yep, yep.
189 00:24:21.810 ⇒ 00:24:22.520 payas.parab: Okay.
190 00:24:22.520 ⇒ 00:24:28.639 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we don’t actually run PMs anymore, so, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, no PMs, yeah.
191 00:24:29.320 ⇒ 00:24:34.840 Robert Tseng: it’s more… more of, like, a pure consulting kind of model. Like, we have, like, a…
192 00:24:35.340 ⇒ 00:24:43.229 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t want to say we run it like EUI, but, like, more, more like that… more like their, their, their model now.
193 00:24:44.950 ⇒ 00:24:46.310 payas.parab: Interesting. Okay, cool.
194 00:24:46.310 ⇒ 00:24:46.640 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
195 00:24:46.640 ⇒ 00:24:49.120 payas.parab: That would work for me, because at the end of the day, for me, it’s just,
196 00:24:49.370 ⇒ 00:24:54.769 payas.parab: engineering throughput, even, like, I wouldn’t want to waste Too much budget on…
197 00:24:55.060 ⇒ 00:25:14.819 payas.parab: like, scoping when I can do that, like, pretty effectively, because, like, the head of food and dev sits over there, right? So I can, like… it’s like, it would actually be more work to, like… for me, it would be easier for me to walk over to his office and be like, hey, let’s go through this, and, like, let’s just get these PRD… this PRD done, and fire it over to the DE ASAP, like…
198 00:25:15.160 ⇒ 00:25:17.200 payas.parab: you know, I, I just need, I need a…
199 00:25:17.410 ⇒ 00:25:27.110 payas.parab: I need the engineering throughput, and if your model doesn’t work like that, that’s totally okay, by the way, you know what I mean? Like, I think pricing will reflect that, but, like, the way I’m thinking about it is, like, I need…
200 00:25:27.260 ⇒ 00:25:31.870 payas.parab: It’s H-O-K-B, baby. Hands-on keyboard time, because I don’t… I only have so much.
201 00:25:32.110 ⇒ 00:25:32.920 payas.parab: You know?
202 00:25:34.300 ⇒ 00:25:35.130 Robert Tseng: Sure.
203 00:25:35.570 ⇒ 00:25:38.499 payas.parab: But I think, like, Jasmine would be doing more than just, like.
204 00:25:38.880 ⇒ 00:25:45.790 payas.parab: requirements gathering. It would be like, hey, can you run analysis on, like, the best timings, right? Like, are there any gaps around, like.
205 00:25:46.450 ⇒ 00:25:55.109 payas.parab: when could we, like, extend hours, right? Or where is there hours where there’s, like, literally no one fucking coming to our restaurants? Maybe we can, like, adjust the hours.
206 00:25:55.110 ⇒ 00:25:57.499 Robert Tseng: to reduce cost, right? That type of thing.
207 00:25:57.920 ⇒ 00:26:09.199 Robert Tseng: Yeah, the DEs won’t be able to spot the opportunities, that’s why they… for us, they need to be paired with the DA. Like, they’re… the DAs will just kind of take the instructions and build the thing, but then, like, really finding…
208 00:26:09.200 ⇒ 00:26:21.179 Robert Tseng: like, what looked funny, like, what… how… kind of framing… framing the analysis, like, they’re… they… they’re just… they just don’t do that. So, that’s kind of why… that’s why we’re putting in with them, yeah.
209 00:26:21.840 ⇒ 00:26:23.810 payas.parab: Got it, okay.
210 00:26:23.970 ⇒ 00:26:36.999 payas.parab: what would timeline look like on you getting proposal on the lead researcher tool with an Outlook client, and the Food and Bev, Toast data engineering pipeline, and some basic analytics tooling around our Food and Bev?
211 00:26:37.490 ⇒ 00:26:48.949 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, we’ll probably send you a proposal within 2 days, and then, yeah, we just have to kind of co-author it together. I think, that’s… yeah, there’ll probably be in, like, a docs form, and then we’ll…
212 00:26:51.300 ⇒ 00:26:51.920 payas.parab: True.
213 00:26:58.780 ⇒ 00:27:10.229 Robert Tseng: Oh, that’s weird, I dropped off for a sec. Yeah, I was just saying that I think just give this, and we’ll be able to… it’ll be in a Google Doc, and we can… we can workshop it in there.
214 00:27:10.680 ⇒ 00:27:15.279 payas.parab: Sounds good. Can you share that with me and, Mike, who’s also on the event?
215 00:27:15.800 ⇒ 00:27:17.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah, totally.
216 00:27:17.760 ⇒ 00:27:18.590 payas.parab: Alright, ma’am.
217 00:27:18.590 ⇒ 00:27:19.380 Robert Tseng: Cool.
218 00:27:19.380 ⇒ 00:27:20.259 payas.parab: Well, I appreciate you joining.
219 00:27:20.260 ⇒ 00:27:20.760 Robert Tseng: Anything else?
220 00:27:20.760 ⇒ 00:27:22.410 payas.parab: Thanks so much. No, I’m good.
221 00:27:22.430 ⇒ 00:27:23.570 Robert Tseng: Okay.
222 00:27:23.980 ⇒ 00:27:24.670 Robert Tseng: Cool?
223 00:27:25.220 ⇒ 00:27:31.460 Robert Tseng: No, I think this is good enough for us to put something on paper, and then we’ll go from there.
224 00:27:32.010 ⇒ 00:27:33.820 payas.parab: Alright, sounds good. Thanks, Jude. See ya.
225 00:27:33.930 ⇒ 00:27:35.180 Robert Tseng: Thanks. See ya.