Meeting Title: Brainforge Sales Strategy and Contract Review Date: 2026-02-02 Meeting participants: Clarence Stone, Pranav Narahari, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:13.200 ⇒ 00:00:14.400 Pranav Narahari: Yo, yo!
2 00:00:14.400 ⇒ 00:00:15.490 Clarence Stone: What’s up?
3 00:00:15.830 ⇒ 00:00:19.539 Pranav Narahari: Nothing much, nothing much. Just got back from playing pickleball.
4 00:00:20.280 ⇒ 00:00:21.490 Clarence Stone: Nice.
5 00:00:22.510 ⇒ 00:00:25.190 Clarence Stone: Do you guys have indoor courts over there in Austin?
6 00:00:25.350 ⇒ 00:00:29.559 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, we’ve been going to this indoor spot, it’s been a ton of fun.
7 00:00:31.200 ⇒ 00:00:33.320 Pranav Narahari: I realized how bad I was today.
8 00:00:34.920 ⇒ 00:00:40.470 Clarence Stone: I wanted to join a league, but I haven’t found the time. I think it would be fun to do.
9 00:00:40.700 ⇒ 00:00:50.290 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, the timing is weird. Like, this was, like, I was meeting with a cousin that I haven’t seen in a while today, so… I chose to go a little bit earlier, but, like…
10 00:00:50.830 ⇒ 00:00:57.360 Pranav Narahari: Sometimes you just kind of have to… like, this place is cool because they’re open, like, at 9, and, like, you can book a court then, so…
11 00:00:57.820 ⇒ 00:01:00.499 Pranav Narahari: Usually that’s when I feel like I’m free to do stuff.
12 00:01:02.700 ⇒ 00:01:03.490 Clarence Stone: Nice.
13 00:01:03.490 ⇒ 00:01:04.099 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
14 00:01:10.960 ⇒ 00:01:26.969 Clarence Stone: Sorry, I’m… I’ve been just, like, wasting my whole entire life on this open claw shit. And I’m, like, coding on this side while this is happening. Oh, you’re not up-to-date on this shit? Oh my gosh, this is, it’s crazy.
15 00:01:27.430 ⇒ 00:01:28.680 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
16 00:01:28.970 ⇒ 00:01:29.480 Clarence Stone: Oh, my God.
17 00:01:29.480 ⇒ 00:01:31.149 Pranav Narahari: Looking into it right now, personal AI is…
18 00:01:31.150 ⇒ 00:01:42.089 Clarence Stone: So somebody just, like, got rid of the safety parameters on Claude, and created a local system that just, like, scales the shit out of Claude.
19 00:01:42.600 ⇒ 00:01:43.539 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay.
20 00:01:43.540 ⇒ 00:01:56.800 Clarence Stone: So, it’s pretty much, like, the scaffolding to run a model with, like, a persistent memory system, a really aggressive, like, set of tools, and it just, like, rains free on the internet and just does whatever you want.
21 00:01:56.990 ⇒ 00:02:07.209 Clarence Stone: So I paired one with KimmyK2.5, which, like, can conduct swarms. So, over the weekend, I worked on getting it to, like, command a bunch of Kimmy swarms for me.
22 00:02:08.199 ⇒ 00:02:15.159 Clarence Stone: And, got burned pretty heavily, by learning how, like, demanding swarms are.
23 00:02:15.160 ⇒ 00:02:17.970 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay. Like, by, tokens and stuff? Yeah.
24 00:02:18.000 ⇒ 00:02:19.940 Clarence Stone: It’s… it’s crazy.
25 00:02:20.200 ⇒ 00:02:21.790 Pranav Narahari: Jeez, okay, yeah.
26 00:02:21.910 ⇒ 00:02:26.500 Pranav Narahari: Gotta put, like, a max limit on that or something. I don’t give it free reign on your credit card.
27 00:02:27.560 ⇒ 00:02:34.510 Clarence Stone: Well, I’ve just been using, like, free tokens that I’ve been, scamming from different locations, so…
28 00:02:34.640 ⇒ 00:02:35.600 Clarence Stone: We make it work.
29 00:02:35.600 ⇒ 00:02:36.690 Pranav Narahari: That’s the way to do it.
30 00:02:37.130 ⇒ 00:02:37.950 Uttam Kumaran: Hey guys.
31 00:02:38.380 ⇒ 00:02:38.789 Pranav Narahari: Hey, what’s up.
32 00:02:40.090 ⇒ 00:02:40.990 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude.
33 00:02:42.550 ⇒ 00:02:54.090 Uttam Kumaran: I just, like, finally, I shipped, like, a… I needed to create, like, a test assistant, so I need… I, like, created a test version of the Brainforge assistant, because I’m testing some things.
34 00:02:54.390 ⇒ 00:02:54.760 Pranav Narahari: Nice.
35 00:02:54.760 ⇒ 00:03:01.910 Uttam Kumaran: Took a while to, like… I’m just learning Railway, I’m just becoming a DevOps person, day by day.
36 00:03:04.160 ⇒ 00:03:09.109 Uttam Kumaran: And then… yeah, it’s been… today’s been… today’s been okay. Good.
37 00:03:09.330 ⇒ 00:03:13.869 Uttam Kumaran: Missed you at the CSO meeting, dude. It was kind of quiet.
38 00:03:14.670 ⇒ 00:03:16.020 Pranav Narahari: CSO meeting today?
39 00:03:16.540 ⇒ 00:03:17.310 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
40 00:03:17.310 ⇒ 00:03:20.060 Clarence Stone: Yeah, you’re probably not invited to it because you swapped.
41 00:03:20.250 ⇒ 00:03:22.900 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I feel you definitely were.
42 00:03:23.710 ⇒ 00:03:25.760 Pranav Narahari: I don’t see it on my calendar today.
43 00:03:26.710 ⇒ 00:03:27.490 Uttam Kumaran: Ugh.
44 00:03:27.600 ⇒ 00:03:29.960 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry, okay, that’s my bad.
45 00:03:30.240 ⇒ 00:03:33.319 Clarence Stone: It might have been my bad, I own this meeting now, don’t I?
46 00:03:33.590 ⇒ 00:03:35.649 Uttam Kumaran: No, not the CSO meeting, because that’s so…
47 00:03:35.650 ⇒ 00:03:36.260 Clarence Stone: That’s, like.
48 00:03:36.260 ⇒ 00:03:43.470 Uttam Kumaran: the only one I’m still going to. Oh, shit. Although I swear I would have asked… I thought I saw you, and I thought you left because you were dealing with Lilo stuff.
49 00:03:44.900 ⇒ 00:03:51.680 Pranav Narahari: I see a CSO client presentation dry run on Wednesday. Maybe you added me to that one and not the one today.
50 00:03:51.680 ⇒ 00:03:56.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah… Yeah, you know what I mean… You’re probably right.
51 00:03:56.710 ⇒ 00:03:59.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, either way, it was not, like, the most eventful, but.
52 00:03:59.930 ⇒ 00:04:00.390 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
53 00:04:00.390 ⇒ 00:04:03.249 Uttam Kumaran: I answered your question for everybody.
54 00:04:03.250 ⇒ 00:04:04.060 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
55 00:04:04.060 ⇒ 00:04:05.849 Uttam Kumaran: scope creep.
56 00:04:05.850 ⇒ 00:04:06.890 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.
57 00:04:08.780 ⇒ 00:04:10.919 Pranav Narahari: Okay, well, I’ll watch the recording.
58 00:04:10.920 ⇒ 00:04:12.520 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
59 00:04:14.420 ⇒ 00:04:17.879 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Well, floor is yours, dude. Tell me what’s on your mind.
60 00:04:18.540 ⇒ 00:04:19.189 Pranav Narahari: For me, right?
61 00:04:19.190 ⇒ 00:04:21.549 Clarence Stone: Yeah. Okay.
62 00:04:21.550 ⇒ 00:04:25.290 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I feel like we just haven’t been able to sync for a while, like, Leela’s been so…
63 00:04:25.890 ⇒ 00:04:33.199 Pranav Narahari: Crazy. Yeah, I think the main thing was just, like, my contract just ended.
64 00:04:33.200 ⇒ 00:04:33.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
65 00:04:33.630 ⇒ 00:04:44.150 Pranav Narahari: That was the main thing that I wanted to talk about. And so, yeah, it’s crazy. It’s only been, like, a month and a half. It feels like I’ve been here for a while now.
66 00:04:44.150 ⇒ 00:04:44.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
67 00:04:44.680 ⇒ 00:04:52.180 Pranav Narahari: But, yeah, I just noticed with the… just, like, some things in the contract, like, and I think maybe you mentioned this too, like…
68 00:04:52.350 ⇒ 00:04:58.240 Pranav Narahari: Some of the… like, the pay things are, like, not in place yet.
69 00:04:58.580 ⇒ 00:05:06.730 Pranav Narahari: I, like, I didn’t see any update on that. Do you, like, because we talked about how, like, I guess that 5% thing, like…
70 00:05:06.730 ⇒ 00:05:09.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Week of Jan,
71 00:05:09.620 ⇒ 00:05:16.269 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so still on my list of to-do is to finalize a couple things. One is
72 00:05:16.470 ⇒ 00:05:21.490 Uttam Kumaran: Clarence, we still need to send out, like, the final confirmations.
73 00:05:21.560 ⇒ 00:05:40.389 Uttam Kumaran: The other piece is I just, like, Holly on the legal team, last Wednesday, just finished a full review of, like, all of our contracts, so we’re gonna be issuing new contracts, and then also be adding in all the language for all the bonus structures.
74 00:05:40.590 ⇒ 00:05:44.629 Pranav Narahari: Okay. It’s sort of sitting on my desk, I just got it, like, last week.
75 00:05:44.630 ⇒ 00:05:51.080 Uttam Kumaran: So, it’s coming. I can put in a note in the contract that, like, That’s coming, but,
76 00:05:52.060 ⇒ 00:05:55.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so you can expe… you can expect that.
77 00:05:55.810 ⇒ 00:05:58.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t… I don’t really have anything, any other, like.
78 00:05:58.870 ⇒ 00:05:59.560 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
79 00:05:59.560 ⇒ 00:06:00.619 Uttam Kumaran: It’s on its way.
80 00:06:00.880 ⇒ 00:06:09.069 Pranav Narahari: Sounds good. I’ll just, I think you already sent me, like, a contract, too, so I’ll just sign that one, and then whenever that one gets ready, we can just…
81 00:06:09.070 ⇒ 00:06:22.129 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it should… it should be this month, so we just… basically, we’re… we did an entire contract review across all vendor contracts and client contracts, and we will be at… I’ll be basically…
82 00:06:22.340 ⇒ 00:06:29.589 Uttam Kumaran: Sending the new language out to everybody to kind of update everybody’s contracts and do an amendment, and then in that
83 00:06:29.710 ⇒ 00:06:35.800 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll be included on the CSO, which will, yes, will include the one-time 5%,
84 00:06:35.970 ⇒ 00:06:40.319 Uttam Kumaran: And then we’ll also include all, like, the kickers.
85 00:06:41.260 ⇒ 00:06:52.649 Uttam Kumaran: you know, that came in, and then OPS is gonna be working on, like, kind of keeping track of all of that, but we… I think we basically said we’re gonna pay out at the end of the quarter, so yeah.
86 00:06:52.980 ⇒ 00:06:57.100 Pranav Narahari: Okay, cool. Yeah, so it sounds like even then, like, the recruiting, like, referral stuff will be fixed.
87 00:06:57.100 ⇒ 00:07:09.819 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes. Yeah, so you’ll… yeah, so what we’re gonna do, and there, I think Eliza’s working on the policy for the recruiting piece, but we’re basically gonna do,
88 00:07:10.370 ⇒ 00:07:16.150 Uttam Kumaran: Actually, I forgot what I told her, but we’re gonna do based on, like, if a person stays 6 months, and then you get paid.
89 00:07:16.160 ⇒ 00:07:18.790 Pranav Narahari: So, yeah, you should get, you should get that.
90 00:07:19.740 ⇒ 00:07:23.720 Pranav Narahari: Cool. Yeah, I… what was the…
91 00:07:23.880 ⇒ 00:07:27.089 Pranav Narahari: I think the other thing maybe we just, like, figured out via…
92 00:07:27.400 ⇒ 00:07:30.240 Pranav Narahari: just, like, Slack or text,
93 00:07:30.970 ⇒ 00:07:38.089 Pranav Narahari: But, yeah, I didn’t have much there. I think it was just, like, those two questions. I knew, we just didn’t have the time to, like, talk about it.
94 00:07:39.350 ⇒ 00:07:43.740 Pranav Narahari: trying to think. I feel like I’m forgetting something, but… I don’t think… I don’t know.
95 00:07:43.740 ⇒ 00:08:00.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and so I know, I know initially, when we first talked, you were like, okay, how can we get above, like, 100 an hour? I think this is gonna get… I think net-net, you’re gonna get above 100, because as long as you just keep working with me to sell more SOWs, you’re easily gonna get there.
96 00:08:00.370 ⇒ 00:08:00.770 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
97 00:08:00.770 ⇒ 00:08:03.670 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah.
98 00:08:03.670 ⇒ 00:08:10.379 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I feel like maybe we should talk even more about that once, like, all the incentive stuff is figured out, so I can kind of get a better picture.
99 00:08:10.380 ⇒ 00:08:18.689 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and what we’re gonna do is that we’re actually gonna build a little, like, calculator, so… I mean, it’s just on the list, so you’ll actually be able to, like.
100 00:08:18.930 ⇒ 00:08:24.439 Uttam Kumaran: Basically, type in, like, expectations for certain figures, and then…
101 00:08:24.680 ⇒ 00:08:27.800 Uttam Kumaran: You’ll be able to actually, just to kind of forecast.
102 00:08:28.200 ⇒ 00:08:35.740 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re actually gonna make it more public, too, so, like, people can see that, like, oh, it’s actually gonna be pretty easy for me to make a lot more here.
103 00:08:35.740 ⇒ 00:08:37.080 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
104 00:08:37.340 ⇒ 00:08:42.600 Uttam Kumaran: So, I’m happy to share that. I think it all should all get taken care of this, this month.
105 00:08:43.140 ⇒ 00:08:47.020 Pranav Narahari: Cool, okay. And so, yeah, if that gets taken care of this month.
106 00:08:47.190 ⇒ 00:08:52.640 Pranav Narahari: does that, because I know, like, pay happens every 30 days, is that going to…
107 00:08:53.450 ⇒ 00:08:56.410 Pranav Narahari: retroactively, like, affect January.
108 00:08:56.670 ⇒ 00:09:04.670 Uttam Kumaran: So you’re gonna get 5… yeah, you’re gonna get… you’re gonna end up with 5% of your 20, like, everything for 26.
109 00:09:04.780 ⇒ 00:09:07.680 Uttam Kumaran: So your entire, like, your entire 12-month…
110 00:09:07.870 ⇒ 00:09:11.720 Uttam Kumaran: 26 run rate, you’ll get… you’ll basically get 5% of that.
111 00:09:12.460 ⇒ 00:09:24.129 Uttam Kumaran: So, and then… so then there’s a couple of other changes that are also coming down the pike. So one is we’re… we’re fairly close to being able to offer, like, WTU for people that are…
112 00:09:24.260 ⇒ 00:09:34.630 Uttam Kumaran: gonna be sticking around long-term, so I kind of have you on that list, and then we should… we’re… the next immediate thing is we’re gonna go look into healthcare.
113 00:09:34.750 ⇒ 00:09:38.859 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s all in the next, like, 2 to 3 months.
114 00:09:38.970 ⇒ 00:09:43.070 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just, like, slowly whittling away at, like, a bunch of… like…
115 00:09:43.250 ⇒ 00:09:46.809 Uttam Kumaran: bullshit to figure all that out.
116 00:09:47.160 ⇒ 00:09:53.209 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah, but it’ll be a… it’ll be… it’ll be all percentages of your entire 2026.
117 00:09:53.510 ⇒ 00:09:55.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, including January.
118 00:09:55.500 ⇒ 00:09:57.849 Uttam Kumaran: At whatever your current rate is.
119 00:09:58.550 ⇒ 00:10:00.099 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha, okay, so…
120 00:10:00.360 ⇒ 00:10:09.370 Pranav Narahari: Let me just do some mental math. So, like, yeah, 5% makes it basically from 80 to 84. When you think of, like, the other incentives,
121 00:10:09.950 ⇒ 00:10:13.500 Pranav Narahari: What are the ones… so you’re saying the SOW ones, specifically?
122 00:10:13.500 ⇒ 00:10:16.439 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the core thing where you’re gonna be able to make
123 00:10:16.970 ⇒ 00:10:21.089 Uttam Kumaran: More money is, one, helping on…
124 00:10:21.200 ⇒ 00:10:30.200 Uttam Kumaran: scoping out new work for clients. Gotcha. And then it’s gonna be also on assisting on,
125 00:10:30.390 ⇒ 00:10:31.770 Uttam Kumaran: net new deals.
126 00:10:31.770 ⇒ 00:10:33.570 Pranav Narahari: So, this is where, like.
127 00:10:33.690 ⇒ 00:10:47.999 Uttam Kumaran: I think maybe we should think of a process, because on every single deal, I’m trying to loop people in. Some people, you’d be surprised, are not as motivated to help me out. Like, they’ll be like, they’ll… they’ll…
128 00:10:48.310 ⇒ 00:10:53.240 Uttam Kumaran: They’ll send some… they’ll, like, help me out for one meeting, and then, like, never sort of take things to the finish line.
129 00:10:54.720 ⇒ 00:10:55.870 Uttam Kumaran: So…
130 00:10:56.590 ⇒ 00:11:04.009 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, it’s a bit tough. Like, I feel like… I feel like… I mean, I think you… you get credit for the Lilo expansion, for sure.
131 00:11:04.200 ⇒ 00:11:10.379 Uttam Kumaran: So, I think, like, you tell me, and I’m kind of gonna figure this out, like, I think you, Greg.
132 00:11:10.660 ⇒ 00:11:18.589 Uttam Kumaran: seem, like, most motivated to sort of, like, assist on sales activities. Everybody else on the current CSO crew
133 00:11:19.290 ⇒ 00:11:21.659 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, they just don’t… they’re just not, like…
134 00:11:21.830 ⇒ 00:11:25.369 Uttam Kumaran: maybe they’re just not seeing that I’m, like, offering, like, free cash.
135 00:11:25.670 ⇒ 00:11:31.689 Uttam Kumaran: I am… but, like, if I have to follow up more than once to be like, yo, help me get this free cash.
136 00:11:32.210 ⇒ 00:11:37.019 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna give up the free cash, right? Like, it’s like thousands of dollars for, like.
137 00:11:37.200 ⇒ 00:11:42.440 Uttam Kumaran: 30 minutes of work, like, attend a meeting, draft an SOW, help me get it over the line.
138 00:11:42.440 ⇒ 00:11:43.360 Pranav Narahari: Right. So…
139 00:11:43.360 ⇒ 00:11:44.420 Uttam Kumaran: I think…
140 00:11:44.780 ⇒ 00:12:00.150 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m open to what your thoughts are, Clarence, but for me, I told Clarence that on every deal, I’m trying to do it with somebody, because the more that I can sell with you guys, and the more you guys will be able to sell on your own. So, if it’s just a matter of us keeping in touch.
141 00:12:00.260 ⇒ 00:12:05.490 Uttam Kumaran: I can… basically, if there’s any AI deal coming, I can work with you to sell it.
142 00:12:05.620 ⇒ 00:12:07.600 Uttam Kumaran: In general.
143 00:12:07.600 ⇒ 00:12:14.759 Pranav Narahari: So, like, I understand, like, how that looks, right? Like, let’s say Lilo, for example. Like, I did, yeah, like, the work of…
144 00:12:15.110 ⇒ 00:12:18.970 Pranav Narahari: You, like, you wrote up the PRDs, and I did the work of, like.
145 00:12:19.380 ⇒ 00:12:28.210 Pranav Narahari: working with our team to figure out, like, scoping, and then, like, estimating. Is that, like, kind of what you’re talking about? Or…
146 00:12:28.440 ⇒ 00:12:29.139 Pranav Narahari: Or, like.
147 00:12:29.140 ⇒ 00:12:41.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so… so, like, on every… so there’s… so part of the… if you think about the psychology from my side, like, if in normal situations, like, I would have just sold it, and…
148 00:12:41.470 ⇒ 00:12:42.760 Uttam Kumaran: there’s no…
149 00:12:43.160 ⇒ 00:12:55.989 Uttam Kumaran: fee to pay out to anybody, because I don’t really get paid on a fee basis. In this situation, though, I actually want to give you that money, because I want to incentivize you to help on even future deals.
150 00:12:55.990 ⇒ 00:13:06.449 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And so, I’m happy to give you a piece of that, but over time, the… the constraints on what help means will just go, like, the expectations will just go higher.
151 00:13:06.450 ⇒ 00:13:08.409 Pranav Narahari: Right. Meaning, like, it’s not just, like.
152 00:13:08.590 ⇒ 00:13:16.329 Uttam Kumaran: tagging along or, like, doing a piece, it’ll be like, yo, I’ll come with you to, like, help you dance, but, like, you take care of everything, you know?
153 00:13:16.330 ⇒ 00:13:16.770 Pranav Narahari: but…
154 00:13:16.770 ⇒ 00:13:17.810 Uttam Kumaran: And so, like…
155 00:13:17.810 ⇒ 00:13:20.639 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna ask, like,
156 00:13:20.740 ⇒ 00:13:30.730 Pranav Narahari: what part of that process, like, did I not get looped into? Like, it wasn’t more about what you didn’t get looped into, it was, like.
157 00:13:31.010 ⇒ 00:13:39.360 Uttam Kumaran: Ultimately, like, you just joined, and nobody on… nobody on our delivery team Has experience selling these contracts.
158 00:13:39.360 ⇒ 00:13:40.280 Pranav Narahari: Totally, yeah.
159 00:13:40.280 ⇒ 00:13:43.940 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna get… I’m gonna be much more lenient with what credit
160 00:13:44.130 ⇒ 00:13:49.060 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what qualifies to get credit while everybody learns and watches us do it?
161 00:13:49.330 ⇒ 00:13:51.379 Uttam Kumaran: This is something that, like.
162 00:13:51.540 ⇒ 00:14:03.399 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know another person on planet Earth that would get this type of deal away, but, like, I want you guys to see how me and Robert sell, and see the benefit of selling.
163 00:14:03.520 ⇒ 00:14:12.139 Uttam Kumaran: and then also start selling. So, I’m going to try to sell every single deal with someone else, and I’m gonna give the money away.
164 00:14:12.760 ⇒ 00:14:13.640 Pranav Narahari: Cool, yep.
165 00:14:13.640 ⇒ 00:14:18.539 Uttam Kumaran: But what I’m seeing is that not everybody is sort of, like.
166 00:14:18.640 ⇒ 00:14:32.480 Uttam Kumaran: seeing what I’m seeing, which is like, yo, you just gotta, like, help me move things along. Like, some people are coming to the meeting, but then not saying anything, or using the SOW generator, but, like, not really, like.
167 00:14:32.640 ⇒ 00:14:34.469 Uttam Kumaran: Spending any more time, so…
168 00:14:34.840 ⇒ 00:14:51.039 Uttam Kumaran: I’m also, like, don’t… I’m not, like, this is not, like, a charity business, so I’m gonna try with every single person, but ultimately, I think there’s just gonna be a few people that emerge that are really interested in, like, starting to build that muscle. There’s gonna be a lot of variable cash available that way.
169 00:14:51.200 ⇒ 00:14:51.820 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
170 00:14:51.820 ⇒ 00:15:11.489 Clarence Stone: Just recap for now, like, you’re asking, like, what kind of contributions define, right? And Utam is saying, hey, like, just being on top of things, being willing to help, and making sure that you drive from start to end is the criteria for success right now, because we’re building people up to get this capacity, right?
171 00:15:11.490 ⇒ 00:15:11.840 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.
172 00:15:11.840 ⇒ 00:15:21.640 Clarence Stone: So, Utam, you asked me, where should we actually track this? Where should we be able to see it? I think the best place is HubSpot. We should create a new line item for, like.
173 00:15:21.640 ⇒ 00:15:22.230 Uttam Kumaran: Correct, correct.
174 00:15:22.230 ⇒ 00:15:28.280 Clarence Stone: So, project team assistant, or whatever you want to call this role, right? And if that box is empty…
175 00:15:28.280 ⇒ 00:15:29.480 Uttam Kumaran: delivery assist.
176 00:15:29.480 ⇒ 00:15:42.970 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, like, if that box is empty, that is for somebody to claim. If you have not followed up, and you’re not driving to a close, you might see your name disappear from there, and get an alert saying, like, hey, you know, we didn’t see you follow up.
177 00:15:42.970 ⇒ 00:15:49.790 Clarence Stone: Right? So, like, for the motivated of us, like Utam is saying, like, the very few who actually care and want to learn this.
178 00:15:49.840 ⇒ 00:15:53.729 Clarence Stone: All you guys have to do is track that dashboard. You’d be making a boatload.
179 00:15:54.020 ⇒ 00:15:55.429 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
180 00:15:56.330 ⇒ 00:16:15.259 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so, like, I’m gonna try to do every deal, both, like, deal… for example, if you’re the CSO on a deal, and there’s a renewal coming up, I want you to go sell that, right? And I will help you in any capacity I can to go do that. But you’d be surprised, some people are not, like.
181 00:16:15.370 ⇒ 00:16:18.079 Uttam Kumaran: Following up with me on, like, what that looks like.
182 00:16:18.470 ⇒ 00:16:24.680 Uttam Kumaran: And… they’re just continuing status quo. So, I’m not surprised, because it is, like.
183 00:16:25.030 ⇒ 00:16:28.380 Uttam Kumaran: It is a new thing to do, and it’s a little bit, like, tense.
184 00:16:28.380 ⇒ 00:16:29.770 Pranav Narahari: But it’s like…
185 00:16:29.820 ⇒ 00:16:37.210 Uttam Kumaran: there’s tons of money. And so, like, let me give you an example. I’m, like, if I… if I’m going… right now, I’m talking to some people about some AI deals.
186 00:16:37.540 ⇒ 00:16:43.470 Uttam Kumaran: everything I sell, I try to think about, hey, is there someone from the delivery team I can bring alongside me
187 00:16:43.670 ⇒ 00:16:54.419 Uttam Kumaran: Because what that helps me do is say, like, okay, you just came to the meeting, I’ve given you all of the vault, has everything on how to write, do all this stuff, all you gotta do is carry it to the end, and…
188 00:16:54.540 ⇒ 00:16:59.369 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll come alongside you for one or two, you’ll win the money, and then the rest, like.
189 00:16:59.530 ⇒ 00:17:12.199 Uttam Kumaran: you can just probably start to sell on your own, like, it’ll be… and what does that give us? In the long run, it just gives us more sales capacity without necessarily needing to hire another person. And for that, I’m willing to… to pay.
190 00:17:12.500 ⇒ 00:17:16.689 Uttam Kumaran: And so, yeah, that’s… that’s what I would suggest, is, like.
191 00:17:16.859 ⇒ 00:17:21.659 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a couple of ways to do that. One is, like, if you just ask me at any moment.
192 00:17:21.829 ⇒ 00:17:41.779 Uttam Kumaran: like, hey, are there any deals I can assist with? I will give you every single one that I’m doing, and you can tell me if there’s one way you can help. Second is, like, if you come to the sales… if you want to come to the sales meeting on Monday, or if you want to go see anything in HubSpot, you can also go do that, and go snipe some deals, and, like, figure out how to get in on them.
193 00:17:42.010 ⇒ 00:17:43.340 Uttam Kumaran: That’s basically it.
194 00:17:44.700 ⇒ 00:17:45.920 Pranav Narahari: Okay, cool.
195 00:17:46.300 ⇒ 00:17:49.870 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, with Lilo, it makes…
196 00:17:49.990 ⇒ 00:17:59.840 Pranav Narahari: like, I think I understand, like, the steps that go into it a little bit more. And also, like, yeah, it sounds like, you know, you’re just gonna kinda, like, let me know, like, tag along, so, like, I’ll learn.
197 00:17:59.840 ⇒ 00:18:08.649 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna give people layups as much as I can, because I’m… what I don’t have is time, so, like, I want you guys to try to help me do these, you know?
198 00:18:09.060 ⇒ 00:18:09.710 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
199 00:18:11.180 ⇒ 00:18:11.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
200 00:18:11.870 ⇒ 00:18:13.079 Pranav Narahari: I mean, yeah, this is…
201 00:18:13.080 ⇒ 00:18:20.929 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not easy, it’s, like, still sales, like, but I also think you’ve got it, like, you kind of know what we’re doing. I could tell that you can see it.
202 00:18:21.360 ⇒ 00:18:21.760 Pranav Narahari: Yes.
203 00:18:21.760 ⇒ 00:18:24.029 Uttam Kumaran: the value, you know? And you can see, like.
204 00:18:24.430 ⇒ 00:18:27.180 Uttam Kumaran: And if you just wash me on a couple of these, you’ll get it.
205 00:18:27.390 ⇒ 00:18:35.790 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, I think I would find it interesting, and yeah, I feel like I could… I could, I could do a good job at it, after, like, some experience.
206 00:18:36.190 ⇒ 00:18:38.540 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, this sounds great.
207 00:18:41.740 ⇒ 00:18:45.369 Pranav Narahari: I have just, like, I guess more, like, just technical questions of, like.
208 00:18:45.500 ⇒ 00:18:49.899 Pranav Narahari: how that goes down, but maybe we save that for another time, like… like, how.
209 00:18:49.900 ⇒ 00:18:51.400 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s me, yeah.
210 00:18:51.600 ⇒ 00:18:53.320 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, okay, so.
211 00:18:54.540 ⇒ 00:18:59.720 Uttam Kumaran: With, like, meetings from, like, my understanding is, like, okay, you have, like, an initial kind of, like.
212 00:18:59.950 ⇒ 00:19:01.830 Pranav Narahari: Maybe it’s, like, almost just, like, a…
213 00:19:02.240 ⇒ 00:19:07.069 Pranav Narahari: just, like, an intro call, right? Yeah. And, like, in that intro call, like, they’re basically kind of, like.
214 00:19:07.500 ⇒ 00:19:15.929 Pranav Narahari: They’re, like, telling you that you’re… there are problems, you’re just kind of discussing, and then after some time, maybe after another call or two, then you kind of, like, talk about solutions, and then…
215 00:19:16.320 ⇒ 00:19:19.000 Pranav Narahari: Then… so there’s, like, a few meetings there, right?
216 00:19:19.570 ⇒ 00:19:20.690 Pranav Narahari: Guys, like…
217 00:19:21.200 ⇒ 00:19:26.649 Pranav Narahari: in your head, is there, like, more of, like, a framework there? Like, okay, meeting one, X, like, meeting two, like, Y, like…
218 00:19:26.650 ⇒ 00:19:30.149 Uttam Kumaran: 100%. It’s actually all… yeah, so…
219 00:19:30.290 ⇒ 00:19:39.160 Uttam Kumaran: I would say this is one of the few places in the company where, like, everything is actually very well scoped. Okay. There is a weekly business review spreadsheet that I can share with you.
220 00:19:39.160 ⇒ 00:19:41.370 Pranav Narahari: You can see our entire pipeline.
221 00:19:41.370 ⇒ 00:19:55.619 Uttam Kumaran: And how we’re thinking about deals progressing through the pipeline. Yeah. You’re exactly right. They’re, like, deals go from, like, a lead, so that lead is just, like, we heard… someone has a… we think that this person
222 00:19:55.870 ⇒ 00:20:09.289 Uttam Kumaran: is… has a problem, then goes to qualified leads, so most of our stuff, we’re looking at qualified. Then we go to marketing qualified, or sales qualified. Like, did they come through marketing, or did they come through, like, a direct sales channel?
223 00:20:09.290 ⇒ 00:20:12.960 Pranav Narahari: So that’s, like, MQL or SQL. You’ll see this in the spreadsheet.
224 00:20:12.960 ⇒ 00:20:26.769 Uttam Kumaran: And then it moves to, like, a discovery call. Once we do a discovery call, then typically we’re 2 meetings, and then we try to close. So we don’t usually, for most of our clients, we don’t do, like, 3, 4, 5 meetings, unless they’re, like, enterprise.
225 00:20:27.100 ⇒ 00:20:44.790 Uttam Kumaran: And so, really, you don’t even have to go source deals. Like, I don’t need… like, you can, and that would be great, and you’ll get… there’s actually, I think, even more money if you bring in a net new logo. But if you’re just contributing, I think, like, it’s pretty easy, because you just tag along with me.
226 00:20:45.140 ⇒ 00:20:50.469 Uttam Kumaran: all the steps on how to create the SOW, like, how to do pricing.
227 00:20:50.890 ⇒ 00:20:58.319 Uttam Kumaran: how you collaborate and get feedback from delivery is all written down. The toughest part of sales is dancing in the meeting, at least for me.
228 00:20:58.440 ⇒ 00:21:05.099 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s something that you just gotta learn, you just kind of trial by fire, But nicely, like.
229 00:21:05.430 ⇒ 00:21:09.510 Uttam Kumaran: Again, you just… you just go do those together, you can kind of see how it works.
230 00:21:09.560 ⇒ 00:21:13.730 Pranav Narahari: When you say, like, a meeting, you’re saying, like, kind of, things are gonna be…
231 00:21:13.730 ⇒ 00:21:24.040 Uttam Kumaran: You just kind of have to go… I don’t know, for me, I say dance, because you have to go to a meeting and sort of, like, show that in 30 minutes, you gotta convince someone that they should pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know?
232 00:21:24.150 ⇒ 00:21:25.889 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. So, like, that’s not…
233 00:21:26.380 ⇒ 00:21:28.730 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a learned skill, I think.
234 00:21:28.730 ⇒ 00:21:34.849 Pranav Narahari: to not freak out and not be weird during that. But, like, I think you already have that. I think what you’ll learn is, like.
235 00:21:34.850 ⇒ 00:21:37.980 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just a different than…
236 00:21:38.890 ⇒ 00:21:50.939 Uttam Kumaran: It’s actually… it’s actually a lot less about technical requirements and things like that. It’s more showing that you have the depth and the empathy and, like, the energy to actually build what they need.
237 00:21:52.010 ⇒ 00:21:56.210 Uttam Kumaran: And then if you do then the first meeting, the rest of the meetings are all just, like, check the box, like.
238 00:21:56.390 ⇒ 00:21:58.339 Pranav Narahari: Right. Just meeting people, and…
239 00:21:58.340 ⇒ 00:21:59.600 Uttam Kumaran: Getting the right scope.
240 00:21:59.970 ⇒ 00:22:04.239 Uttam Kumaran: And nicely, again, like, we’re no longer, like, a business with…
241 00:22:04.440 ⇒ 00:22:09.969 Uttam Kumaran: like, no testimonials. Like, we have a ton of materials, we have a ton of logos.
242 00:22:10.180 ⇒ 00:22:12.510 Uttam Kumaran: We have other sales support, so…
243 00:22:12.990 ⇒ 00:22:19.999 Uttam Kumaran: For the most part, it’s just, like, coming in and talking about our capabilities, trying to pattern match it to stuff we’ve done.
244 00:22:20.710 ⇒ 00:22:28.070 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, and then it’s, like, just coming alongside me to, like, either the first discovery call.
245 00:22:28.500 ⇒ 00:22:31.839 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, the subsequent calls, you know, that happen after that.
246 00:22:33.120 ⇒ 00:22:36.810 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, this sounds great. Like, I would definitely be interested in doing this. Yeah.
247 00:22:36.810 ⇒ 00:22:49.260 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s… I think it’s fun, and… and it’s also, like, we get called because people have problems, right? I think the toughest part about this is we can’t work for everybody, and we have to kind of figure out quickly
248 00:22:49.550 ⇒ 00:23:00.129 Uttam Kumaran: If people are going to be able to afford us, you know, and our… and, like, our price is just going up, and we want to work on bigger and bigger projects, but…
249 00:23:00.130 ⇒ 00:23:04.150 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. I actually don’t… I think you… I think Greg is also really, really interested.
250 00:23:04.150 ⇒ 00:23:05.800 Uttam Kumaran: So, if it’s helpful to, like.
251 00:23:06.730 ⇒ 00:23:11.659 Uttam Kumaran: talk more about this during the CSO meeting, or we can talk a Wednesday, I can talk to everybody about.
252 00:23:11.830 ⇒ 00:23:14.510 Uttam Kumaran: how we’re thinking about sales, like, more than happy to.
253 00:23:14.830 ⇒ 00:23:19.350 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and I think it ties in well with, like, the CSO stuff, because I do feel like…
254 00:23:19.670 ⇒ 00:23:22.259 Pranav Narahari: I’m… it’s like a similar muscle.
255 00:23:22.480 ⇒ 00:23:27.299 Pranav Narahari: Like, in the way that I talk to, like, Bobby and Zach, like, I’m trying to sell, like.
256 00:23:27.420 ⇒ 00:23:30.500 Pranav Narahari: every week, like, what we did.
257 00:23:30.850 ⇒ 00:23:31.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
258 00:23:31.500 ⇒ 00:23:32.260 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
259 00:23:33.670 ⇒ 00:23:44.480 Pranav Narahari: So, I mean, it does seem like it ties in well. And then, of course, like, yeah, scoping new work for Lilo itself, like, it’ll… that seems like it’s something… and it is, like, based on the documents.
260 00:23:44.480 ⇒ 00:23:52.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, like, you know, like, Lilo, like, renewal will hit at some point, and there’ll be new work. Yeah. And so that’s the thing, dude, even if you were just to get the renewal.
261 00:23:53.060 ⇒ 00:23:53.470 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
262 00:23:53.470 ⇒ 00:24:02.559 Uttam Kumaran: you get a piece of that. So, we’re being very aggressive, because I don’t want to bring on full-time salespeople. Like, I would rather just give more money to, like.
263 00:24:02.810 ⇒ 00:24:05.530 Uttam Kumaran: Folks on delivery that figure out how to sell, which is, like.
264 00:24:05.810 ⇒ 00:24:10.849 Uttam Kumaran: Robert and I both just did that, and neither of us have any formal sales background, so…
265 00:24:11.030 ⇒ 00:24:14.399 Uttam Kumaran: I know it’s possible, I just think some people really…
266 00:24:14.680 ⇒ 00:24:16.300 Uttam Kumaran: Just don’t want to do it.
267 00:24:16.300 ⇒ 00:24:21.469 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. And there’s gonna be more for everybody. For the people that do want, they can go get that money.
268 00:24:21.500 ⇒ 00:24:22.029 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
269 00:24:22.030 ⇒ 00:24:22.570 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
270 00:24:23.090 ⇒ 00:24:31.530 Uttam Kumaran: And I think it’s a rare, like, there’s… I don’t know another company that’s, like, really doing… like…
271 00:24:32.150 ⇒ 00:24:39.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, kind of offering something like that to, like, just everybody, anybody that’s on the team that wants to learn how to sell.
272 00:24:39.550 ⇒ 00:24:50.829 Uttam Kumaran: And the second thing, again, the reason I know that it’s possible is because we built out the playbooks and everything, so there’s a lot of support structure built in on helping you
273 00:24:51.150 ⇒ 00:24:55.690 Uttam Kumaran: sort of, sort of sell, basically, you know, so…
274 00:24:55.690 ⇒ 00:24:58.659 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. That’s what gives me a lot of confidence, too, like…
275 00:24:58.660 ⇒ 00:25:01.030 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not just, like, a raw dog thing, yeah.
276 00:25:01.030 ⇒ 00:25:09.829 Pranav Narahari: Right, it’s like a training, almost, and like, you have, like, people that have done it, like, around you. But then I can also kind of, like, take more ownership, like, usually this…
277 00:25:10.010 ⇒ 00:25:13.010 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I… this is.
278 00:25:13.010 ⇒ 00:25:22.509 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s just… it’s just hard because, look, we… out of 100 deals that we try to go do, like, only a couple will make it. So that’s why this is hard, is that it’s actually, like.
279 00:25:23.100 ⇒ 00:25:28.870 Uttam Kumaran: You just… you have to treat every deal really, really important, but also you have to be okay. If it doesn’t work out.
280 00:25:29.760 ⇒ 00:25:30.530 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
281 00:25:30.720 ⇒ 00:25:36.240 Uttam Kumaran: But I can go on and on, like, again, both of us have just learned how to do this after, like, having no background, so…
282 00:25:36.520 ⇒ 00:25:41.510 Uttam Kumaran: And we learned the hard way, like, I… we didn’t… like, people really… Like…
283 00:25:41.730 ⇒ 00:25:48.290 Uttam Kumaran: did not fuck with us for a long time. So I feel like we built a lot of structure that we kind of wish we would have had in the beginning.
284 00:25:48.960 ⇒ 00:25:54.369 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, okay, because think about it, before, like, I was writing contracts myself. I was, like.
285 00:25:54.610 ⇒ 00:25:59.050 Uttam Kumaran: sending every follow-up, I was like… it was a lot harder.
286 00:25:59.050 ⇒ 00:25:59.460 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
287 00:25:59.460 ⇒ 00:26:03.040 Uttam Kumaran: And now we’re bringing… Right, so…
288 00:26:03.970 ⇒ 00:26:10.120 Uttam Kumaran: for example, like, I feel like we’re getting to a point where it’s like, hey, okay, we have these leads that we’re working on, like, who wants to come help me?
289 00:26:10.650 ⇒ 00:26:18.320 Uttam Kumaran: go sell them, okay, like, let’s come to the meeting, and then… if you’re ending up nailing it, then I’m like, yeah, you can just go to the next one, you know, I don’t even need to be there, you know?
290 00:26:18.320 ⇒ 00:26:18.930 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
291 00:26:21.010 ⇒ 00:26:23.540 Pranav Narahari: Sounds super dope, yeah.
292 00:26:24.670 ⇒ 00:26:34.469 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so, I also know Luke is working on that HubSpot implementation, and part of what he, you know, I suggested to him he should focus on is creating a good visual of the funnel.
293 00:26:34.470 ⇒ 00:26:53.979 Clarence Stone: what you’re talking about when you say, like, what are all the steps involved? How many meetings are there, right? In this process, we capture it all in a funnel, because, like, we’re going to shed interest, right, as people, you know, kind of go, like, this might not be for us, or we decide it’s not… it’s not a job we want to do, right? So,
294 00:26:53.980 ⇒ 00:27:01.060 Clarence Stone: you know, from just general interest to when we sign an SOW, that’s really our entire funnel, and it should be tracked on HubSpot.
295 00:27:01.490 ⇒ 00:27:04.139 Clarence Stone: So you should get a picture of, like, what that looks like.
296 00:27:05.440 ⇒ 00:27:09.730 Pranav Narahari: And, when it gets to the point of…
297 00:27:10.060 ⇒ 00:27:17.740 Pranav Narahari: I forget what you called, like, the first… the discovery call? How many, like, discovery calls do we have per week?
298 00:27:19.190 ⇒ 00:27:33.139 Uttam Kumaran: Here, let me actually just send you this spreadsheet, because literally, it’s like, all of what we’re doing and all of the goals are in this. Yep. And you can just study this, because this is literally, like, our whole…
299 00:27:33.440 ⇒ 00:27:38.350 Uttam Kumaran: This… this… this will give you the path towards, like, how we’re trying to grow.
300 00:27:38.770 ⇒ 00:27:41.020 Uttam Kumaran: And…
301 00:27:41.530 ⇒ 00:27:54.949 Uttam Kumaran: again, I just think, like, it’s… it’s kind of rare, so… I mean, it’s just funny because we’re, like, a data company, so we have a little bit of organization around here, but you can see, kind of, like, how we’re thinking about it. I’ll send it to you guys.
302 00:28:04.450 ⇒ 00:28:08.630 Uttam Kumaran: So if you check this out, and specifically the sheet that’s, like, forecast.
303 00:28:08.930 ⇒ 00:28:11.519 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gonna see how we’re,
304 00:28:12.030 ⇒ 00:28:22.920 Uttam Kumaran: how we’re actually, like, getting to our growth numbers. And you’ll see… this is a huge spreadsheet, and you’ll see that there’s a forecast, MBR, QBR, there’s also an actual
305 00:28:23.670 ⇒ 00:28:29.970 Uttam Kumaran: WBRs, weekly business review, monthly, quarterly. So the forecast, you’ll actually see that, like, okay.
306 00:28:30.080 ⇒ 00:28:33.090 Uttam Kumaran: We’re trying to do 8 discovery calls a week.
307 00:28:34.120 ⇒ 00:28:34.830 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
308 00:28:35.920 ⇒ 00:28:41.389 Uttam Kumaran: And you can kind of, like, start to trace, like, how each discovery call
309 00:28:41.990 ⇒ 00:28:51.139 Uttam Kumaran: converts to revenue, and so if you look at the MRR forecast sheet, you’re gonna see… Our average…
310 00:28:51.330 ⇒ 00:28:59.680 Uttam Kumaran: kind of, like, how we get into these numbers. So, like, we basically are predicting that, like,
311 00:29:00.320 ⇒ 00:29:05.089 Uttam Kumaran: We have a example of, like, okay, based on, like, this amount of churn, and…
312 00:29:05.230 ⇒ 00:29:21.920 Uttam Kumaran: this amount of new pipeline close rate, and, like, an average contract length of 3 months, and it takes 30 days to close. Like, here’s how many new leads we need to add into the week in order to basically get to our goal, which is
313 00:29:21.970 ⇒ 00:29:26.680 Uttam Kumaran: We’re trying to end the quarter with $250K in MRR.
314 00:29:26.910 ⇒ 00:29:31.520 Uttam Kumaran: Which would be a $100K increase into what we’re at now.
315 00:29:33.020 ⇒ 00:29:36.410 Uttam Kumaran: And… this is the path towards that.
316 00:29:36.530 ⇒ 00:29:42.659 Uttam Kumaran: And so you’re gonna see, like, Robert, and I can add you to the sales channel, too, if you want to just, like.
317 00:29:44.970 ⇒ 00:29:47.850 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of see, like, how we’re doing stuff, but
318 00:29:48.430 ⇒ 00:29:54.979 Uttam Kumaran: Robert runs this team, and so every week he’s, like, making sure that, like, marketing is hitting their…
319 00:29:55.100 ⇒ 00:30:01.030 Uttam Kumaran: Their numbers, and then, as long as we’re hitting our, like, top of funnel numbers.
320 00:30:01.680 ⇒ 00:30:07.949 Uttam Kumaran: I’m pretty confident, like, we’re gonna get, you know, to… We’re gonna get there.
321 00:30:08.080 ⇒ 00:30:11.719 Uttam Kumaran: Like, our conversion rate on stuff is pretty good.
322 00:30:11.890 ⇒ 00:30:14.279 Uttam Kumaran: And so, as long as we’re able to…
323 00:30:14.440 ⇒ 00:30:18.970 Uttam Kumaran: Hit our top of funnel numbers and get into the number of discovery calls.
324 00:30:19.450 ⇒ 00:30:22.550 Uttam Kumaran: like, there’s a good chance we hit it.
325 00:30:23.390 ⇒ 00:30:26.520 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we tend to convert a lot of business,
326 00:30:26.850 ⇒ 00:30:32.269 Uttam Kumaran: I think we tend to disqualify, really, when the customer can’t afford us, for the most part.
327 00:30:32.560 ⇒ 00:30:33.250 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
328 00:30:35.150 ⇒ 00:30:39.100 Pranav Narahari: Cool, yeah, I’m gonna dive into, like, all this so I can understand it a little bit more.
329 00:30:39.430 ⇒ 00:30:53.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and even if you export this and shove it into Claude, like, it’ll explain stuff to you, but it’s, like, this is, like, what Luke and, Shay shoot for some parts of it. We’re all, like, this is what we’re tracking every week.
330 00:30:53.960 ⇒ 00:30:54.850 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha, gotcha.
331 00:30:54.850 ⇒ 00:31:03.120 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, there’s, like, there’s a bunch of deals that we have to do. I mean, the biggest tough… the toughest thing is, is, like, it’s just time, so…
332 00:31:03.130 ⇒ 00:31:20.529 Uttam Kumaran: to do 8 discovery calls a week, you know, it’s… that’s really tough. So for me, I’m like, okay, if there’s any way that I can take the edge off and hand those off to a couple people, or I can come to the discovery call, and then folks can take it from there, like, it actually helps a lot. Like, we can do a lot more deals.
333 00:31:20.970 ⇒ 00:31:21.640 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
334 00:31:25.020 ⇒ 00:31:27.729 Pranav Narahari: Cool. Yeah. No, this is,
335 00:31:28.800 ⇒ 00:31:34.039 Pranav Narahari: This seems exciting, yeah, I would love to take part in this. And I’ll just…
336 00:31:34.890 ⇒ 00:31:37.610 Pranav Narahari: a lot of new information, so I just gotta absorb it all.
337 00:31:37.610 ⇒ 00:31:38.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.
338 00:31:38.840 ⇒ 00:31:41.799 Pranav Narahari: to chat GPT or Claude, and just,
339 00:31:42.270 ⇒ 00:31:49.339 Pranav Narahari: get some more info, like, ask just… ask it a ton of questions, but… yeah, no, this is super exciting, I’d love to do this,
340 00:31:50.430 ⇒ 00:31:51.260 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
341 00:31:51.690 ⇒ 00:31:57.079 Uttam Kumaran: I’m glad, dude, someone around here is like, I’d love to do this, that’s great. I’m hearing a lot of the opposite.
342 00:31:57.230 ⇒ 00:31:57.950 Pranav Narahari: Really?
343 00:31:57.950 ⇒ 00:31:59.840 Uttam Kumaran: time. Okay.
344 00:32:00.170 ⇒ 00:32:04.200 Pranav Narahari: No, I think I’m at that stage in my life where I’m just like, yes, for work.
345 00:32:04.200 ⇒ 00:32:08.349 Uttam Kumaran: Look, I’m happy, dude.
346 00:32:08.480 ⇒ 00:32:18.180 Uttam Kumaran: more, I… I also agree, that’s how I am, so I… no one ever was, like, help, told me, like, no, you could go help me sell, I just was, like, started doing it.
347 00:32:18.510 ⇒ 00:32:18.930 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
348 00:32:18.930 ⇒ 00:32:27.060 Uttam Kumaran: I’m more than happy, you know, to share, like, it’s just… it’s interesting, I think you’ll find parts of it are really cool, parts of it are just, like.
349 00:32:27.520 ⇒ 00:32:30.600 Uttam Kumaran: Just rizzing up people. That’s just it.
350 00:32:30.600 ⇒ 00:32:32.080 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah.
351 00:32:32.380 ⇒ 00:32:42.160 Pranav Narahari: And it’s, yeah, it’s like a muscle that I don’t get to use, like, all the time. I think that’s why… I mean, as, like, a regular, just, like, engineer, you’re never using that muscle, right? Like…
352 00:32:42.160 ⇒ 00:32:43.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
353 00:32:43.680 ⇒ 00:32:46.729 Pranav Narahari: Honestly, the part of being an engineer that I don’t like.
354 00:32:46.840 ⇒ 00:32:54.950 Pranav Narahari: Because it just feels just so, like, isolating. Like, there’s something fun about doing this, too, and then when you succeed, it’s like… it’s like a game, kind of.
355 00:32:55.140 ⇒ 00:33:15.050 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I always feel like you want to try to… you want to try to do both, like, there’s rare people that can do both. Yeah. And that’s, like, one of our edges, I feel like, in the business, but dude, like, life is sales, bro, like, I really think… I really believe that now. Yeah. And… some things are… you don’t even expect to be sales, like, I feel like…
356 00:33:15.350 ⇒ 00:33:19.800 Uttam Kumaran: When you think sales, you think of, like, a car dealership person, like, this is very different, you know?
357 00:33:20.110 ⇒ 00:33:20.790 Pranav Narahari: Right.
358 00:33:22.770 ⇒ 00:33:29.039 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, and I also, our, like, I mean, Clarence has sold, like, much, much bigger stuff than, like.
359 00:33:29.590 ⇒ 00:33:35.940 Uttam Kumaran: His, like, one deal at his place is, like, our whole company, like, the entire, like, history of my whole company, so…
360 00:33:35.940 ⇒ 00:33:36.389 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay.
361 00:33:36.390 ⇒ 00:33:39.539 Clarence Stone: We’re gonna sell some big deals, Tom. I’m not giving up.
362 00:33:39.540 ⇒ 00:33:40.050 Uttam Kumaran: Huh?
363 00:33:40.100 ⇒ 00:33:44.359 Clarence Stone: on the EY Appos, so we’re gonna sell some big ones this year, man.
364 00:33:44.620 ⇒ 00:33:48.769 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I, I, I know, I know, I just, it’s just, that’s funny.
365 00:33:48.770 ⇒ 00:33:54.930 Clarence Stone: But I think the big takeaway here, though, it’s like, you know, Utam really worked
366 00:33:55.060 ⇒ 00:34:13.349 Clarence Stone: a lot and self-taught himself to get to this level where, like, you’re able to get to a point where you can just take an existing client and actually convert it for more cash, right? And we’re kind of teaching you backwards from that moment on, okay, how did we all get here? Well, like, we’re gonna learn those
367 00:34:13.350 ⇒ 00:34:15.280 Clarence Stone: You know, skill sets as we go along.
368 00:34:16.070 ⇒ 00:34:22.429 Pranav Narahari: Great, yeah. Yeah, for me, I mean, you guys can already tell, like, I was just like…
369 00:34:22.780 ⇒ 00:34:35.460 Pranav Narahari: struggling to come up with the name Discovery Call. Like, I understand, like, what this means, I think, intuitively. What would you guys say is, like… do you think it’s just kind of, like, reps? That’s the best way to learn? Is there something, like, outside of reps, like… like, I can read up?
370 00:34:35.469 ⇒ 00:34:42.209 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I, I read, like, a ton of books. Like, I’m not naturally good at this. Like, I.
371 00:34:42.210 ⇒ 00:34:44.059 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I’d love a recommendation.
372 00:34:44.060 ⇒ 00:34:47.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I have a bunch of books that I can recommend, some that are just, like.
373 00:34:47.989 ⇒ 00:34:51.110 Uttam Kumaran: Good, like, just to read to even get, like, how to sell
374 00:34:52.060 ⇒ 00:34:56.029 Uttam Kumaran: Like, how to sell what we do, which is expertise.
375 00:34:56.150 ⇒ 00:34:59.629 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy to share that with you. Yeah, not…
376 00:34:59.630 ⇒ 00:35:02.010 Pranav Narahari: For me, I’m not, like, naturally, like…
377 00:35:02.010 ⇒ 00:35:07.430 Uttam Kumaran: For me, the engineering piece is all I’m actually good. Everything else, I have to just read, figure it out.
378 00:35:07.820 ⇒ 00:35:08.470 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
379 00:35:09.370 ⇒ 00:35:13.820 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, I’ll definitely take a look at that book. Okay, dope.
380 00:35:13.820 ⇒ 00:35:20.560 Clarence Stone: to do is change your entire media diet. I used to be a very different person, and, like.
381 00:35:20.880 ⇒ 00:35:26.509 Clarence Stone: the skill sets that I wanted to pick up were not a part of, like, the things that I consumed every day.
382 00:35:26.630 ⇒ 00:35:27.640 Clarence Stone: Right?
383 00:35:27.640 ⇒ 00:35:28.300 Pranav Narahari: Amazing.
384 00:35:28.300 ⇒ 00:35:34.909 Clarence Stone: as soon as I shifted, you know, what I look at as newsletters every day to the podcasts I listen to.
385 00:35:35.190 ⇒ 00:35:35.920 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
386 00:35:35.920 ⇒ 00:35:44.880 Clarence Stone: like, it has massively changed my, capabilities and skill sets towards a different direction. So, I’m sure…
387 00:35:44.880 ⇒ 00:35:51.130 Pranav Narahari: go about doing that, like, completely changing your, like, yeah, media content?
388 00:35:51.130 ⇒ 00:35:59.550 Clarence Stone: I mean, here’s a foundational story of my life, I guess, like, you know, when you become an officer in the Army, like, they…
389 00:35:59.680 ⇒ 00:36:20.679 Clarence Stone: expect you to take actions, and be a great planner, and understand what strategy is overall, and part of, like, how I grew up, I was always a quiet kid, right? Like, it’s just Asian culture, like, not to look at people in their eyes when you’re talking to them. I just never really had that confidence to drive results. And there was a moment where my instructor
390 00:36:20.680 ⇒ 00:36:29.019 Clarence Stone: he’s… he’s got, like, a gash in the side of his head, where, like, he took a round, the dude’s tabbed up with Ranger and SF on the other side.
391 00:36:29.020 ⇒ 00:36:34.929 Clarence Stone: And he just looks at me, he goes, this is a piece of paper. He holds up my plans. And he’s like.
392 00:36:35.430 ⇒ 00:36:48.889 Clarence Stone: And I’m just, like, standing there going, like, okay. Right? And he’s like, this is just gonna be a piece of paper until you inspire others that it’s worth doing. You have a really great plan, but it’s never gonna work unless you can actually lead it.
393 00:36:48.960 ⇒ 00:36:51.399 Pranav Narahari: Right. Like, you have to make it real.
394 00:36:51.770 ⇒ 00:37:02.909 Clarence Stone: And, I don’t know, something mentally clicked, I’m like, oh, I’ve indexed for the wrong skill sets, right? I’m really over-indexed on certain things, but I still haven’t picked up the essentials to making a plan happen.
395 00:37:03.050 ⇒ 00:37:03.530 Clarence Stone: Right.
396 00:37:03.770 ⇒ 00:37:04.410 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
397 00:37:04.640 ⇒ 00:37:23.590 Clarence Stone: like, I started really just researching that. Who are great communicators? How do great communicators inspire? How do great communicators sell? How do they communicate? How do they communicate with each other? Yeah, so that’s… that’s how I changed my diet overall. And it all really started with, you know, all the Tim Fires books.
398 00:37:23.590 ⇒ 00:37:25.469 Clarence Stone: Listening to his podcast.
399 00:37:25.470 ⇒ 00:37:43.509 Clarence Stone: And then following a lot of entrepreneurs that I really, you know, enjoyed, you know, the products of. Not just the fact that I think they’re really great, like, but I like what they do, right? So, like, listen to LTT podcast, the old Dignation podcast, if you don’t know about Dig.com, really great history.
400 00:37:43.710 ⇒ 00:37:44.340 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
401 00:37:44.700 ⇒ 00:37:49.619 Clarence Stone: What am I gonna listen to now? All In Podcast, BG2?
402 00:37:51.150 ⇒ 00:38:04.170 Clarence Stone: Yeah, like, things in that lane. And a lot of TED podcasts, because I often have to speak, and randomly I get injected into meetings, and it’s like, perform.
403 00:38:05.580 ⇒ 00:38:12.860 Clarence Stone: Right, so having a mental model on how I present things and explain myself, Is super helpful, too.
404 00:38:13.470 ⇒ 00:38:15.550 Pranav Narahari: Okay, that’s… that’s great, like…
405 00:38:16.230 ⇒ 00:38:21.389 Pranav Narahari: that is somewhere that I think we’ll talk a lot about that, because I feel like that’s some place where…
406 00:38:22.170 ⇒ 00:38:25.649 Pranav Narahari: For me, personally, I feel like I want to grow a lot there.
407 00:38:26.510 ⇒ 00:38:33.440 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and I’m having just, like, I’m putting those reps in now where I’m realizing, like, okay, this is where I can improve, like, as being a CSO, like…
408 00:38:33.550 ⇒ 00:38:35.429 Pranav Narahari: when I’m presenting, like.
409 00:38:35.430 ⇒ 00:38:40.689 Uttam Kumaran: just having… and it’s just… it’s gonna help in, like, these type of calls, too. Just being able to formulate my thoughts, like…
410 00:38:40.690 ⇒ 00:38:46.039 Pranav Narahari: have, like, a… when I start my first word, my first sentence, like, I kind of know where I’m going.
411 00:38:46.280 ⇒ 00:38:50.440 Pranav Narahari: So… okay. This is great. This is… this is awesome.
412 00:38:50.440 ⇒ 00:38:58.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you’ll see me describe… I describe it a lot like dancing, because it’s, like, improv. For me, like, this is where me and Robert are very different, like.
413 00:38:58.370 ⇒ 00:39:01.910 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think about what I’m gonna say next.
414 00:39:01.910 ⇒ 00:39:04.049 Pranav Narahari: And it is very hard.
415 00:39:04.070 ⇒ 00:39:10.659 Uttam Kumaran: to, like, prepare that way, but in that sense, I have to be really, really ultimately prepared for anything.
416 00:39:10.720 ⇒ 00:39:21.309 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Because I don’t think about what I’m gonna say, I sort of show up to stuff, and I just do whatever the meeting needs. He’s very different, like, he has to be pretty prepared.
417 00:39:21.310 ⇒ 00:39:31.169 Uttam Kumaran: But we both… we both kind of, like, find success. And so, I just think it’s kind of interesting, like, you kind of have to find what works for you. If I prepare, I mess up, like.
418 00:39:31.180 ⇒ 00:39:33.519 Uttam Kumaran: I… I tend to overthink things.
419 00:39:33.520 ⇒ 00:39:37.059 Pranav Narahari: And so instead, I just, like, come in and I try to be genuine.
420 00:39:39.030 ⇒ 00:39:45.070 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s great, like, the feedback loop in sales is really great, dude. It’s like, you know, it’s… you kind of, like.
421 00:39:46.780 ⇒ 00:39:58.090 Uttam Kumaran: eat what you kill, and it’s really good in that way. And I also think, like, look, my career, being able to be an engineer that can communicate has been extremely, extremely important. Like.
422 00:39:58.090 ⇒ 00:39:58.660 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
423 00:39:58.660 ⇒ 00:40:02.060 Uttam Kumaran: It’s changed my entire life, like, just thinking, just…
424 00:40:02.290 ⇒ 00:40:17.619 Uttam Kumaran: doing that, you know? Versus, like, a lot of people, like, they kind of get stuck, and maybe they don’t want it, but maybe they do, and they just, like, can’t figure it out. And I feel like, you know, since I met you, I know you kind of had it. And so, like, yeah, I mean, I think it’s just continuing to ask
425 00:40:17.940 ⇒ 00:40:30.480 Uttam Kumaran: folks like us for help on, like, how to do it, and… I mean, look, like, I feel like this… you and Greg are two people on the CSO call that always ask for, like, how would you do this? How would you do this? You’re just gonna learn really fast around here.
426 00:40:30.790 ⇒ 00:40:33.750 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and that’s just what I was gonna ask next, like…
427 00:40:34.400 ⇒ 00:40:49.359 Pranav Narahari: from, like, you guys, like, if you have, like, any feedback for me, like, like, honestly, anytime, just, like, send it over. Because I also kind of feel like I want to build that toolset in myself. I want to be able to not just be an engineer, like.
428 00:40:49.790 ⇒ 00:40:56.190 Pranav Narahari: Being able to honest… like, being able to sell, sounds, like, really attractive to me, because…
429 00:40:56.240 ⇒ 00:41:10.029 Pranav Narahari: I do, like, I think, Utam, you said it, like, how, like, you know, sales kind of does run the world to a certain extent, right? Like, it’s a major… it’s not even just in business or, like, at Brainforge, right? It’s just, like, in life. I think it’s a good skill to have.
430 00:41:11.420 ⇒ 00:41:21.850 Pranav Narahari: And so, yeah, any feedback is, like, super… and I feel like, you know, Utam, you definitely already do. Like, Clarence, as we, like, kind of, like, work more together, like, I’m sure I’ll get more.
431 00:41:21.960 ⇒ 00:41:24.030 Pranav Narahari: So, yeah, just letting y’all know that…
432 00:41:24.360 ⇒ 00:41:24.750 Uttam Kumaran: Totally.
433 00:41:24.830 ⇒ 00:41:30.020 Pranav Narahari: If you guys Slack me, like, oh, this was one place you could have improved on, like, I definitely won’t.
434 00:41:30.980 ⇒ 00:41:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, of course, dude.
435 00:41:32.570 ⇒ 00:41:32.920 Pranav Narahari: Cool.
436 00:41:32.920 ⇒ 00:41:46.169 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I mean, just remember all of this is a balancing act, right? At the core, we are experts at what we do, so delivering on great results for a client always comes first, right? You can’t pour work if you haven’t done good work, and then…
437 00:41:46.580 ⇒ 00:41:53.869 Clarence Stone: you know, the rest of that time is on your awesome pursuits, right? Yeah. Give me fine.
438 00:41:55.820 ⇒ 00:41:56.600 Pranav Narahari: Awesome.
439 00:41:57.530 ⇒ 00:42:13.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, dude, we’re just gonna grow around here, like, this company is way different 3 months ago than it was 3 months before that, and I don’t know, there’s gonna be some people that see it happen and, like, take advantage of it, and there’s gonna be a lot of people that don’t, and I just, like…
440 00:42:13.880 ⇒ 00:42:17.380 Uttam Kumaran: All we’re trying to do here is empower people to, like.
441 00:42:17.620 ⇒ 00:42:21.090 Uttam Kumaran: See that we’re giving so much of it away.
442 00:42:21.090 ⇒ 00:42:22.900 Pranav Narahari: Right. In order to just win.
443 00:42:23.360 ⇒ 00:42:38.890 Uttam Kumaran: like, and doing it in such, like, a non-traditional way that, like, if you’re someone that’s like, okay, I want to, like, take advantage of that, I don’t know, like, in my career, I really had to fight for, like, access, and fight for opportunities, and…
444 00:42:39.040 ⇒ 00:42:43.559 Uttam Kumaran: And here, you really don’t have to fight much, like, you could kind of just raise your hand and…
445 00:42:44.020 ⇒ 00:42:51.909 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll weave you into any single thing I’m doing, because I’m open to… I’m open to handing it off, and so I think if you’re up for it, like.
446 00:42:52.070 ⇒ 00:42:54.059 Uttam Kumaran: As long as you kind of, like.
447 00:42:54.280 ⇒ 00:43:12.000 Uttam Kumaran: are interested and committed to learning, like, I kind of told that to Shaysu as well. I was like, my job is to empower everybody here. Like, I’m… I no longer think about my own… I’m not thinking about, like, my personal growth or anything. Not that, like, we’re not always growing, but me growing
448 00:43:12.150 ⇒ 00:43:29.770 Uttam Kumaran: I’m learning how to teach, I’m learning how to coach, like, that’s what I think about. I think about empowerment all day. And so, the more that people can meet… I told him this today, like, I said, if you can meet me halfway, you’re gonna win, like, and my job is to make you win. But if you don’t, and you sort of, like.
449 00:43:30.370 ⇒ 00:43:31.130 Uttam Kumaran: like…
450 00:43:31.200 ⇒ 00:43:50.789 Uttam Kumaran: kind of like, don’t raise your hand, or don’t look out for stuff, or where I can help, it’s so hard for me. And I’m starting to try to allocate all my time to the people that show an incredible aptitude and excitement to kind of grow with us. I’m not going to spend time with people in the middle. I can’t.
451 00:43:51.350 ⇒ 00:43:52.410 Pranav Narahari: You know? Yeah.
452 00:43:52.410 ⇒ 00:43:59.850 Uttam Kumaran: Because, like, I know every hour I spend with you, it’s such a leverage increase for the company, and so that’s all I’m gonna do, so…
453 00:43:59.850 ⇒ 00:44:00.430 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
454 00:44:00.650 ⇒ 00:44:09.930 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds… yeah, that sounds great. Like, one thing I was gonna say, too, is, like, that you said, like, a couple weeks ago, that I think about is…
455 00:44:10.370 ⇒ 00:44:19.279 Pranav Narahari: you’re like, the more stuff you can take out of my hands, like, the more I can sell and win more, like, win more deals for Brain Forge and the bigger we get. So, like, that’s kind of like…
456 00:44:19.420 ⇒ 00:44:21.669 Pranav Narahari: My mindset, too, to a certain extent.
457 00:44:21.670 ⇒ 00:44:25.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I don’t even… I hate to even be self… like, say that in that way, it seems really selfish, but it’s…
458 00:44:25.990 ⇒ 00:44:28.510 Pranav Narahari: Well, it’s like… Yeah, I didn’t do that selfish at all.
459 00:44:28.510 ⇒ 00:44:29.219 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
460 00:44:29.220 ⇒ 00:44:31.999 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. No, I kind of viewed it as, like, oh yeah, like…
461 00:44:32.240 ⇒ 00:44:37.100 Pranav Narahari: by doing this, like, me taking on this, like, UTAM can kind of do, like.
462 00:44:37.210 ⇒ 00:44:43.650 Pranav Narahari: other stuff as well. And, like, for me, it’s like, it’s learning. For you, it’s kind of like… maybe you…
463 00:44:44.290 ⇒ 00:44:48.309 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, I have to go out into, like, the real darkness, you know? Like, I don’t…
464 00:44:48.310 ⇒ 00:44:48.980 Pranav Narahari: Exactly.
465 00:44:49.200 ⇒ 00:44:56.620 Uttam Kumaran: I have to go out and to do things and try things that, like… failure is, like, there’s, like, 90% chance of failure, and…
466 00:44:56.850 ⇒ 00:45:10.040 Uttam Kumaran: And… but if we do win, the win is big. That’s things that, like, nobody can do, like, you know, and so for me, that’s what the… it’s actually less about taking time away. For me, the company needs me to go do that.
467 00:45:10.180 ⇒ 00:45:13.470 Pranav Narahari: Otherwise, I am… I’m wasting the company’s time by…
468 00:45:13.470 ⇒ 00:45:21.430 Uttam Kumaran: by continuing just to, like, push code and do things that are safe. Right. So, like, I live… ultimately, I live in, like.
469 00:45:21.660 ⇒ 00:45:39.560 Uttam Kumaran: out of my comfort zone. Like, I’m not comfortable at all in, like, years. All I do every day is wake up and think about how I could push this forward. Is there anything that I can create a sense of urgency around? And the more I can do that, we’ve seen the company grow.
470 00:45:39.620 ⇒ 00:45:41.890 Uttam Kumaran: every time that I’ve been able to, like.
471 00:45:42.140 ⇒ 00:45:58.809 Uttam Kumaran: like, think through a new initiative, hire, like, a new interesting person, the business moves forward. So, all the company needs to do is put me in that position. Yeah. And so, ultimately, I have to kind of design the environment around that, which is, like, how can I get
472 00:45:58.970 ⇒ 00:46:12.310 Uttam Kumaran: how can I move to a position where I’m… I’m, like, going to go sell, like, a deal that’s, like, 10 times anything we’ve ever done? But you’d be surprised, it’s actually not, like, harder, in the sense that, like.
473 00:46:12.390 ⇒ 00:46:28.660 Uttam Kumaran: it’s, like, any more grueling than the normal deals, but, like, all of our stuff has to be tight, you know, and I have to come in and really have the messaging down, and there’s just a lot of things that, like, I have to go figure out, and then I’ll come back and be like, hey guys, this is how we did that. Like, let’s go do it again and again and again.
474 00:46:29.510 ⇒ 00:46:41.949 Uttam Kumaran: Like, selling Lilo, we’ve sold deals like that before, so I can come in, be like, cool, this is it, let’s go, and let’s wrap it up in 3 meetings. And, you know, it took us 6 months to get a deal that big.
475 00:46:42.140 ⇒ 00:46:43.700 Uttam Kumaran: Like, a year and a half ago.
476 00:46:43.900 ⇒ 00:46:51.029 Uttam Kumaran: But again, like, we kind of… we go off into the ether, figure it out, and come back and, like, democratize the knowledge.
477 00:46:51.100 ⇒ 00:46:52.180 Pranav Narahari: So…
478 00:46:52.180 ⇒ 00:47:00.059 Uttam Kumaran: If we are able to do that, the company wins. If I’m just sitting doing the same thing every day, continuing to deliver work, the company, like, does not grow.
479 00:47:00.400 ⇒ 00:47:03.169 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, and that makes total sense to me.
480 00:47:04.060 ⇒ 00:47:05.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so…
481 00:47:07.970 ⇒ 00:47:17.809 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, dude, this is great. Yeah, I mean, this is, like, what I like to talk about, and I’m learning more and more that I like… I love to teach people, like, what I learn, and, like, kind of save people a click.
482 00:47:18.000 ⇒ 00:47:21.339 Pranav Narahari: on figuring some of this stuff out. Yeah.
483 00:47:21.640 ⇒ 00:47:27.500 Uttam Kumaran: So, I’m more than happy to share, and more than happy to loop you in as we start to grow this thing even more.
484 00:47:28.020 ⇒ 00:47:31.260 Pranav Narahari: Totally, yeah, I mean… I will…
485 00:47:31.560 ⇒ 00:47:36.950 Pranav Narahari: definitely take that as, like, a sign of, I might send you a lot more messages about, like, this type of stuff, too, which I.
486 00:47:36.950 ⇒ 00:47:42.550 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude, people do not send me enough, like, questions about stuff. There’s a lot of doing, and then, like.
487 00:47:43.430 ⇒ 00:47:50.200 Uttam Kumaran: do… like, there’s a lot of doing with… I’ve never done it before, like, we’ve done everything, and so I’m more than happy to give you the cheat code, like…
488 00:47:50.200 ⇒ 00:47:50.640 Pranav Narahari: Right.
489 00:47:50.640 ⇒ 00:47:54.269 Uttam Kumaran: I want people to cheat on every single thing.
490 00:47:54.270 ⇒ 00:47:55.180 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, exactly.
491 00:47:55.180 ⇒ 00:47:59.649 Uttam Kumaran: I have no, like… Like, people should feel encouraged to, like.
492 00:48:00.040 ⇒ 00:48:04.390 Uttam Kumaran: Find out how to, like, get around things and find the hacky way forward.
493 00:48:04.390 ⇒ 00:48:04.760 Pranav Narahari: Right.
494 00:48:04.760 ⇒ 00:48:08.220 Uttam Kumaran: Versus, like, having to slave away and figure it out.
495 00:48:15.370 ⇒ 00:48:17.090 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. Okay. Cool, yeah.
496 00:48:18.900 ⇒ 00:48:20.110 Uttam Kumaran: Exciting.
497 00:48:20.340 ⇒ 00:48:21.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
498 00:48:21.730 ⇒ 00:48:33.709 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, if you want to sign that, I can… I guess Rico will kind of get that, and then yeah, just keep slacking me, and I’ll… hopefully this month, we should have all that stuff all written.
499 00:48:34.170 ⇒ 00:48:36.630 Uttam Kumaran: You know, just… we’re just trying our best, so…
500 00:48:37.330 ⇒ 00:48:37.930 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
501 00:48:39.100 ⇒ 00:48:40.270 Uttam Kumaran: Sounds good.
502 00:48:41.560 ⇒ 00:48:48.399 Pranav Narahari: And, yeah, I think at the beginning of this call, we already figured out that CSO… okay, CSO leads, I got it. Perfect.
503 00:48:48.830 ⇒ 00:48:54.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, those are the only two meetings, but you tell me, like, if we want to do more, or whatever, like, I told Greg this as, like.
504 00:48:54.810 ⇒ 00:49:09.780 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna meet… meeting with him one-on-one every week, because I… he was like, can we meet every two weeks? I was like, you’re great, let’s just chat. So if you’re… if you’re finding that you want more time, I’ll find the time, and I’m not really doing that for many people in the company, because
505 00:49:09.870 ⇒ 00:49:16.020 Uttam Kumaran: I just know, like, some people are, like, a sponge, and so how much every time I can spend that’s helpful, like, more than happy to.
506 00:49:16.490 ⇒ 00:49:17.770 Pranav Narahari: Perfect, yeah.
507 00:49:18.270 ⇒ 00:49:22.900 Pranav Narahari: I… yeah, maybe, like, it ends up being a standing meeting, but I think…
508 00:49:23.120 ⇒ 00:49:30.999 Pranav Narahari: in the beginning, I’ll just try to, like, whenever I have, like, something to ask, like, I’ll just Slack you if it turns into, like, a bigger conversation, then we set up a meeting.
509 00:49:31.470 ⇒ 00:49:32.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
510 00:49:32.090 ⇒ 00:49:33.690 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, sounds good.
511 00:49:34.700 ⇒ 00:49:35.240 Uttam Kumaran: Cape.
512 00:49:36.640 ⇒ 00:49:37.480 Pranav Narahari: Cool, guys.
513 00:49:37.770 ⇒ 00:50:02.329 Clarence Stone: Cool. Last note, the feedback’s a two-way street, dude. Like, if there’s anything that we can do operationally by setting up new processes, or, you know, like, getting you more assistance, like, I want you to be able to lever yourself, too. So if, you know, you’re getting super successful, you should be knocking on Utom’s door, saying, I need more developers, or I need more, you know, CSOs or SLs, right, so that we can…
514 00:50:02.390 ⇒ 00:50:08.300 Clarence Stone: continue to manage demand and also create new processes. So, yeah, keep me in the loop too, man.
515 00:50:08.300 ⇒ 00:50:11.889 Pranav Narahari: Totally, totally. And yeah, and so… Clarence, like, what…
516 00:50:12.590 ⇒ 00:50:29.520 Pranav Narahari: I mean, I know we can talk about anything, but, like, what type of, like… because we haven’t worked too much together, like, I don’t know too much about, like, your day-to-day, like, what type of conversations, like, questions… I feel like I just… my default is just, like, I just texted to Utam, you know? Like, what things can I, like, talk to you about? Like, for…
517 00:50:29.590 ⇒ 00:50:33.789 Pranav Narahari: just kind of… like, I think I’ve messaged you a couple times for, like, CSO, EP, SL stuff.
518 00:50:34.130 ⇒ 00:50:34.840 Pranav Narahari: But, yeah.
519 00:50:34.840 ⇒ 00:50:56.490 Clarence Stone: I’m pretty much a multi-tool, like, so, like, when I’m not, hanging out on, Brainforge calls or making any new SOPs here, I’m actually working on the three other clients that I have, and all of those are, advisory-type consulting roles, so it’s sitting on a lot of calls, but coming up with plans and strategies.
520 00:50:56.580 ⇒ 00:51:06.009 Clarence Stone: So yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing, and I came from Big Four Consulting, where I led, AI go-to-market strategy for financial services, so…
521 00:51:06.010 ⇒ 00:51:06.690 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.
522 00:51:06.690 ⇒ 00:51:13.510 Clarence Stone: Yeah, that’s sort of my category, but I came from econ before that. I was an Army Cyber Officer, so I’ve got a little mix of everything, but…
523 00:51:13.510 ⇒ 00:51:14.190 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
524 00:51:14.870 ⇒ 00:51:15.470 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
525 00:51:16.550 ⇒ 00:51:19.730 Pranav Narahari: Cool, okay. Hey, I’m excited we’re all in Texas, you know?
526 00:51:19.730 ⇒ 00:51:21.180 Clarence Stone: Exactly. I know, we should.
527 00:51:21.180 ⇒ 00:51:28.110 Uttam Kumaran: try to continue to do stuff. I mean, oh, Clarence, I was gonna tell you, like, do you want to come on Wednesday for this ABC thing? Shita, should’ve.
528 00:51:28.110 ⇒ 00:51:35.349 Clarence Stone: Oh, yeah, I was supposed to follow you, up with you on that. Is there anything else you need me to do? And I, yeah, I can be there.
529 00:51:35.720 ⇒ 00:51:40.790 Uttam Kumaran: Not really, I just need you to come with me and…
530 00:51:41.330 ⇒ 00:51:45.840 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s see if we can sell this business, like, that’s it.
531 00:51:45.840 ⇒ 00:51:47.709 Clarence Stone: Cool, yeah, I’ll be there.
532 00:51:47.910 ⇒ 00:51:52.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, me and, Robert are gonna work on pricing a bit.
533 00:51:52.940 ⇒ 00:51:58.039 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I primed them with sort of what we talked about, so they seem to.
534 00:51:58.040 ⇒ 00:52:00.890 Clarence Stone: open to it. Do they like it? Do they like it?
535 00:52:00.890 ⇒ 00:52:06.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, they said it made sense, like, part of it is gonna be fixed project-based, some of it’s gonna be…
536 00:52:06.650 ⇒ 00:52:12.290 Uttam Kumaran: Like, more outcome-based, so they said they were totally fine with that.
537 00:52:12.290 ⇒ 00:52:23.749 Clarence Stone: Okay, cool. That’s perfect. I, like, I always just worried about that confusion between what’s gonna be paid on what, so as long as, like, this is a model they like, dude, this is a money tree. We’ve got to work.
538 00:52:23.750 ⇒ 00:52:25.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
539 00:52:27.580 ⇒ 00:52:34.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and maybe so, yeah, I mean, I think Wednesday would be good, and yeah, we should try to find the time to meet, like, as a crew every few weeks, like, that’d be great.
540 00:52:34.870 ⇒ 00:52:38.359 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I love the WeWork, I feel like it worked out well. Fridays…
541 00:52:38.470 ⇒ 00:52:42.150 Pranav Narahari: works pretty good for me, I don’t know how it works for y’all, but…
542 00:52:42.150 ⇒ 00:52:44.340 Clarence Stone: I’m absolutely gone on Fridays.
543 00:52:44.340 ⇒ 00:52:45.219 Pranav Narahari: Oh, really?
544 00:52:45.220 ⇒ 00:52:47.890 Clarence Stone: Back-to-back, all the way up until…
545 00:52:48.490 ⇒ 00:52:51.459 Clarence Stone: Yeah, right after our Brainforge syncs.
546 00:52:52.100 ⇒ 00:52:53.480 Pranav Narahari: I mean, I’m…
547 00:52:53.480 ⇒ 00:53:00.230 Uttam Kumaran: My Fridays were good until, like, some people just started, like, fucking up on clients, and…
548 00:53:00.230 ⇒ 00:53:00.850 Clarence Stone: That’s okay.
549 00:53:00.850 ⇒ 00:53:02.190 Uttam Kumaran: I’m back in meetings.
550 00:53:02.900 ⇒ 00:53:03.720 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
551 00:53:06.360 ⇒ 00:53:12.460 Pranav Narahari: I guess for me, I think of Fridays, like, yeah, I do have a lot of meetings those days, but I think of it as, like…
552 00:53:12.700 ⇒ 00:53:27.840 Pranav Narahari: you know, if you’re… if you didn’t do it by Friday, then you’re kind of screwed. So, like, I think of, like, all the work gets… like, the real hard work gets done, like, Monday to Thursday, and then Friday you just perform it. But yeah, honestly, for me, Fridays, like, that’s when I have the most meetings as well.
553 00:53:30.240 ⇒ 00:53:39.419 Uttam Kumaran: We can do Friday, we could also do any… I mean, we could do, like, if we want to go work somewhere during the week, like, for me, Tuesday, Wednesday is also good, so…
554 00:53:39.870 ⇒ 00:53:40.360 Pranav Narahari: Okay.
555 00:53:40.360 ⇒ 00:53:41.360 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fine.
556 00:53:42.350 ⇒ 00:53:43.140 Pranav Narahari: I could do that.
557 00:53:46.590 ⇒ 00:53:49.759 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, guys, I’m gonna go… Eat some dinner.
558 00:53:49.900 ⇒ 00:53:51.410 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.
559 00:53:52.350 ⇒ 00:53:55.430 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, perfect. Thanks for the call, dude, this is great.
560 00:53:55.710 ⇒ 00:53:58.680 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, no, thank you guys. Yeah, see you guys tomorrow.
561 00:53:58.680 ⇒ 00:54:00.440 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thank you. Bye.
562 00:54:00.920 ⇒ 00:54:01.880 Clarence Stone: audience?