Meeting Title: Brainforge Interview with Jasmin Multani Date: 2026-01-09 Meeting participants: Clarence Stone, Jasmin Multani
WEBVTT
1 00:05:51.820 ⇒ 00:05:54.139 Jasmin Multani: Hi, Clarence, sorry for the delay.
2 00:05:54.190 ⇒ 00:05:55.940 Clarence Stone: No worries, Kalan, hello!
3 00:05:55.940 ⇒ 00:06:07.199 Jasmin Multani: Hi, how’s it going? Sorry, I was having some tech issues with my laptop. I think I have too many electronics hooked up to my Wi-Fi, so I’m gonna be signing on through my phone, if it already, like.
4 00:06:07.300 ⇒ 00:06:09.850 Jasmin Multani: Hearing issues, just feel free to let me know.
5 00:06:10.190 ⇒ 00:06:16.560 Clarence Stone: Yeah, no worries, and no big deal on that. I know what that’s like. There is…
6 00:06:16.660 ⇒ 00:06:20.629 Clarence Stone: It’s just some of those days where you have a bunch of tech problems, right?
7 00:06:20.630 ⇒ 00:06:23.550 Jasmin Multani: Exactly, and so I really appreciate the flexibility.
8 00:06:23.960 ⇒ 00:06:24.670 Clarence Stone: Cool.
9 00:06:25.120 ⇒ 00:06:44.509 Clarence Stone: So, just to kind of bring you up to speed on, you know, what I was hoping, or the objective of this call is, like, Utam and Robert have already had the chance to connect with you, and, they wanted, to add in a new layer of interviews, which is me, who’s coming on as,
10 00:06:44.610 ⇒ 00:07:03.790 Clarence Stone: leading a lot of the operations and transformations happening within the organization. I’m pretty new to Brainforge. I just started in December, but prior to that, I’ve been very good friends with Utam and following along on this company’s journey, so I’m not entirely, you know, coming in blind as well, so…
11 00:07:04.650 ⇒ 00:07:23.440 Clarence Stone: What I can do is I have a different perspective on where, you know, this company is growing, the growth opportunities that are available, and what roles, you know, are around. So, like, I would hope that, you know, you could take this opportunity to ask me a bajillion questions on, you know, what’s in place today and what opportunities are there in the future.
12 00:07:23.550 ⇒ 00:07:38.349 Clarence Stone: But also, really, the most important part, Jasmine, is this call is so that I can learn a little bit more about you. So, I guess I’ll pass the ball to you and say, tell me about yourself, what are you up to these days? And, you know, what’s your background?
13 00:07:38.680 ⇒ 00:08:02.070 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, of course! Thanks for the soft intro, and likewise, I really hope we can use the rest of the call to be more of a Q&A. I have a lot of questions, and I’m just trying to see how it differs from person to person. Yeah. So, starting off with me, right now I’m working as a data analyst at TikTok, more folks on the trust and safety world.
14 00:08:02.070 ⇒ 00:08:16.509 Jasmin Multani: So that looks like a lot of detection building and anomaly building and partnering with software engineers and data engineers alike. Before that, I was at, I actually started off my career working
15 00:08:16.510 ⇒ 00:08:26.540 Jasmin Multani: In neuroscience, had a neuroscience degree, didn’t know what to do with it. So I started off working in a lab, and I got to work on the coolest projects,
16 00:08:26.540 ⇒ 00:08:35.080 Jasmin Multani: I just touched up on maternal care, and, neuroprosthetics, focusing, on
17 00:08:35.140 ⇒ 00:08:44.120 Jasmin Multani: packaging that data over to a prosthetics company that the PI had a partnership with, which is very, very rare for research, so…
18 00:08:44.240 ⇒ 00:08:54.239 Jasmin Multani: really, like, kind of, like, aligned myself with that first boss, and how he was able to, like, just push what’s traditional in research, and make his own opportunities.
19 00:08:54.670 ⇒ 00:09:03.079 Jasmin Multani: But after a while, I realized, okay, I want something a bit more fast-paced, not just working on the upstream, but I want to understand where would…
20 00:09:03.080 ⇒ 00:09:23.900 Jasmin Multani: research and data land, end-to-end. So, from there, I was lucky enough to land a role at DoorDash. Landed that role by teaching myself some SQL, Python, and just going on LinkedIn and messaging people, and saying, hey, can you review my GitHub? Luckily, I was able to reach out to an old friend, and, he was able to
21 00:09:24.200 ⇒ 00:09:42.289 Jasmin Multani: he was also in the midst of hiring someone, so I made my pitch and said, hey, Andrew, haven’t talked to you in 8 years since high school, let’s get on a call and chat right now. Fast forward, DoorDash at 3 years, I was there pre-IPO, building out new verticals.
22 00:09:42.290 ⇒ 00:10:00.959 Jasmin Multani: So what you see on the app with alcohol, retail, grocery and convenience, even with the substitutions, machine learning, I was there at the Genesis, and I was actually there when my boss told me, hey, stress test the data and see
23 00:10:00.960 ⇒ 00:10:11.139 Jasmin Multani: if that data is accurate, where we can start making substitution recommendations. And I sat there being dumbfounded, and just, like, circling all of the gaps.
24 00:10:11.140 ⇒ 00:10:21.059 Jasmin Multani: And being really, really nervous, but ultimately, was able to present this information to the data scientists and strategy and ops folks to
25 00:10:21.060 ⇒ 00:10:24.610 Jasmin Multani: Completely redesign, the data pipeline.
26 00:10:24.670 ⇒ 00:10:27.659 Jasmin Multani: So that,
27 00:10:27.750 ⇒ 00:10:39.780 Jasmin Multani: We can actually use the data to operationalize on items and item similarities. And from there, we were able to pass forward to data scientists, and they took the helm to actually build the machine learning algorithms.
28 00:10:40.360 ⇒ 00:10:55.060 Jasmin Multani: So, you probably understand by now, like, I’m very much focused on product and product building. I think that’s what, Robert, has also voiced, that maybe I’ve indexed a bit too much on product and not enough on service.
29 00:10:55.060 ⇒ 00:10:59.000 Clarence Stone: But I’d love to further use this chance to talk about.
30 00:10:59.000 ⇒ 00:11:04.850 Jasmin Multani: what product to service, and upselling those services would look like at Brainforge.
31 00:11:04.850 ⇒ 00:11:14.529 Clarence Stone: Yeah, absolutely. So, first off, what a career pivot. Love hearing stories like that, and I can’t hold myself back, but to also share my own personal story about career pivots.
32 00:11:14.950 ⇒ 00:11:27.990 Clarence Stone: I was pre-med, at Fairleigh Dickinson University, and I was in a 7-year medical program with NYU. So I was pretty much destined to go to medical school.
33 00:11:27.990 ⇒ 00:11:28.990 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34 00:11:28.990 ⇒ 00:11:40.050 Clarence Stone: And, you know, like, two and a half, three years in, I’ve done two summer internships with my uncles, who are doctors, and just decided that this was absolutely not for me, but you can’t
35 00:11:40.540 ⇒ 00:11:58.130 Clarence Stone: you know, quit a program like that, especially when it’s all a fully, you know, sponsored, you know, scholarship. So, I wrote it out, got my biochem degree, and, you know, right after that, we… I started my first startup, where I realized, well, we just don’t have enough
36 00:11:58.130 ⇒ 00:12:13.120 Clarence Stone: people who are coding. So, I taught myself how to do front-end design and front-end code, built the web version of our first app, and, you know, that kind of snowballed into getting my first job as a full-stack front-end developer and all of that good stuff. So, I,
37 00:12:13.200 ⇒ 00:12:24.789 Clarence Stone: you know, I have seen the best career pivot stories come from people with, these bio backgrounds and herscience backgrounds, and I tend to believe that it’s because
38 00:12:24.790 ⇒ 00:12:45.010 Clarence Stone: people who are able to do, science are systems thinkers who are quite analytical, capable of understanding different systems and applying those methods and capabilities across the board. So, really cool, great story, and I love seeing it. And I guess, like, as a… before I answer your question on, you know.
39 00:12:45.130 ⇒ 00:13:00.909 Clarence Stone: what does service to product look like? You know, I want to know, like, how do you feel about that pivot? Do you like where your career’s headed after, or do you still miss, like, doing research every once in a while, and kind of wonder if you want to go back to it?
40 00:13:01.540 ⇒ 00:13:08.619 Jasmin Multani: I don’t regret saying no to a PhD. I’ll never regret that. Even my…
41 00:13:08.620 ⇒ 00:13:28.800 Jasmin Multani: one of my managers at TikTok, he had a whole PhD biochemistry, and he also pivoted and eventually went into, like, tech industry, right? Working on e-commerce, and we’ve talked about it. And he asked me, like, why didn’t you do PhD? You could totally have applied, because you have a published paper from undergrad and everything. And I was like.
42 00:13:28.800 ⇒ 00:13:43.890 Jasmin Multani: honestly, to my left and to my right, everyone was depressed. I was in a room filled with really, really smart people who were very depressed and, would be making catty jabs at each other, and I’m like, this is…
43 00:13:45.360 ⇒ 00:13:52.830 Jasmin Multani: not healthy, so I don’t, regret not taking on the PhD pipeline, especially, like.
44 00:13:53.060 ⇒ 00:13:59.300 Jasmin Multani: like, 3 of my friends have graduated now with a PhD from pretty renowned schools.
45 00:13:59.300 ⇒ 00:14:12.069 Jasmin Multani: But they’re still not happy, right? And for me, autonomy is very, very important. And I just didn’t see that when… I saw so many PIs.
46 00:14:12.070 ⇒ 00:14:29.020 Jasmin Multani: dangle someone’s PhD, and I’ve met people who are on their 8th year of PhD work, and they were doing strong work, but their PIs were like, actually, I just need you for a year longer. And I feel like…
47 00:14:29.260 ⇒ 00:14:34.649 Jasmin Multani: into hindsight, like, that’s also because that PI did not do a good job of, like…
48 00:14:35.690 ⇒ 00:14:43.449 Jasmin Multani: creating an interesting enough research where he could increase the pipeline where more PhDs want to… students would want to attend.
49 00:14:43.450 ⇒ 00:15:05.129 Jasmin Multani: So he just held people hostage. That’s why I really respected my PI, and when I told him I wanted to pivot, he’s like, feel free to do it, like, do whatever you want. The only reason I became a professor is because I couldn’t land a consulting job in my 20s. Like, I just had to make this work, and I’m really thankful it worked. So I think I was… been really lucky enough, and that man, like.
50 00:15:05.130 ⇒ 00:15:14.699 Jasmin Multani: actually started off in art school. And, he grew up in, like, a small town in Detroit, went to art school in Boston, realized he’s not great at art.
51 00:15:14.700 ⇒ 00:15:27.120 Jasmin Multani: pivoted to machine learning from Tufts University back in the 90s, and I’m like, okay, Rob, like, it ended up being really good for you. You really made it work. So I just feel like…
52 00:15:28.870 ⇒ 00:15:36.299 Jasmin Multani: that’s just the mindset I have, and that’s the mindset of the people that I really work hard for. People who know that you just have to make things work.
53 00:15:36.460 ⇒ 00:15:40.309 Jasmin Multani: back in my early 20s, when I made this initial pivot, I was really…
54 00:15:40.660 ⇒ 00:15:57.879 Jasmin Multani: excited by tech, you know, the idea to build something from the ground up, and you have an idea in the morning, and you launch it by the evening. I really appreciate that fast pace, and if there’s something you want to pivot or tinker with, you just… it’s a two-door decision. You can just keep it
55 00:15:58.140 ⇒ 00:16:06.399 Jasmin Multani: Now that the economy is looking the way it is, now that it feels like it’s a big, tech com…
56 00:16:06.910 ⇒ 00:16:20.929 Jasmin Multani: Feels like… the pessimist in me sometimes feels like it’s a big tech, industry right now. A lot of… even Pinterest is getting bought out, possibly getting bought out by OpenAI, and I love Pinterest.
57 00:16:20.930 ⇒ 00:16:27.590 Jasmin Multani: and it’s disheartening, but, I still want to believe in,
58 00:16:27.630 ⇒ 00:16:32.569 Jasmin Multani: working from the ground up. And that’s why, even though I have, like.
59 00:16:32.780 ⇒ 00:16:47.810 Jasmin Multani: two brands on my resume, I just saw them as brands. I really felt like, okay, I’m gonna walk in, learn what I need to, but ultimately, like, my parents are small business owners, and that’s where my end destination is.
60 00:16:48.150 ⇒ 00:17:07.190 Jasmin Multani: So that’s why I wanted to come back and work with Robert to see, hey, what is he up to? Like, he’s been building something really great, there’s something I can learn here, and how can I make this, like, a mutually beneficial relationship where I bring something that you guys enjoy?
61 00:17:07.380 ⇒ 00:17:13.970 Jasmin Multani: and build where I… help out where I can. So… this is my era where I’m going…
62 00:17:14.500 ⇒ 00:17:26.730 Jasmin Multani: back into small business, and stepping away from corporate, corporate and big tech, like, I know how to play the game, I know I can land a big tech job, it’s fine. But,
63 00:17:26.839 ⇒ 00:17:45.239 Jasmin Multani: again, like, I’ve always valued my autonomy and, being able to build things without BS. Saw a little bit of that in research, walked away, I’m seeing that in tech, okay, time for a pivot, so that’s why I’m coming back, to something a bit smaller, but fast-paced.
64 00:17:45.510 ⇒ 00:17:55.969 Clarence Stone: Cool, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so now I owe you an answer. Like, what’s the difference between services and product, right? And what does that service, you know, level experience look like?
65 00:17:56.460 ⇒ 00:17:59.370 Clarence Stone: I think if there was any other company.
66 00:17:59.630 ⇒ 00:18:17.109 Clarence Stone: you would have a little bit of a challenge, like, bridging the gap, but interestingly enough, the way, you know, I’ve tried to structure the leadership roles at Brainforge is to keep the internal teams functioning like product organizations.
67 00:18:17.110 ⇒ 00:18:17.560 Jasmin Multani: Okay.
68 00:18:17.560 ⇒ 00:18:26.559 Clarence Stone: Externally, they are… they are providing a client experience that feels like they’re working with… like, the clients feel like they’re working with a consulting company.
69 00:18:28.110 ⇒ 00:18:34.160 Clarence Stone: And what that means is, you know, from a day-to-day
70 00:18:34.160 ⇒ 00:18:55.439 Clarence Stone: perspective. If you’re at a tech company today, you’re really focusing on building high-quality products, making sure that things work really well, and you’re honing that, you know, niche that you have, right? And a lot of that guidance is kind of provided to you by product owners or maybe executives that have a vision on what the product is.
71 00:18:55.440 ⇒ 00:19:00.690 Clarence Stone: The biggest difference here is that at the services layer, we are actually
72 00:19:00.930 ⇒ 00:19:13.080 Clarence Stone: providing, like, tools and services that help somebody outside of our organization, right? So, it creates a little bit of complexity, because when we get a client
73 00:19:13.150 ⇒ 00:19:30.969 Clarence Stone: and they’re looking for service A, B, or C. It’s not always the case that they’re actually looking for that service. You may run into a client that’s… that’s saying that outwardly, but what they need is, you know, higher confidence in the data and the reports that they’re, you know.
74 00:19:31.020 ⇒ 00:19:34.619 Clarence Stone: Talking about in executive stand-up on a weekly basis.
75 00:19:35.420 ⇒ 00:19:39.529 Clarence Stone: So, it’s not just building great dashboards for this client, you also need to
76 00:19:39.530 ⇒ 00:19:58.140 Clarence Stone: clue up on the fact that, hey, what this person needs is confidence in that data, right? Really good, strong bullet points, and that layer of additional customer service is something that I think you’ll absolutely learn, right? And I think the downside, which, you know.
77 00:19:58.160 ⇒ 00:19:59.269 Clarence Stone: I, I did.
78 00:19:59.370 ⇒ 00:20:14.759 Clarence Stone: six and a half years in consulting as a managing director, and I’ll say, like, the one thing that I don’t like is I don’t get to see a lot of these wins or successes that I’ve helped build for our clients to the end, because, hey, our projects start to end, right?
79 00:20:15.170 ⇒ 00:20:19.890 Clarence Stone: while, you know, like, for example, you’re talking about TikTok, or, or…
80 00:20:20.130 ⇒ 00:20:25.819 Clarence Stone: or DoorDash, where you get to see the results of what you’ve done.
81 00:20:25.820 ⇒ 00:20:26.200 Jasmin Multani: I’m cute.
82 00:20:26.200 ⇒ 00:20:27.140 Clarence Stone: don’t, right?
83 00:20:27.140 ⇒ 00:20:27.650 Jasmin Multani: Yeah.
84 00:20:27.650 ⇒ 00:20:34.039 Clarence Stone: So, I would say those… those two things are the biggest differences.
85 00:20:34.810 ⇒ 00:20:52.440 Clarence Stone: the good news is, like, if you were to join us internally, we’re just gonna operate just like a product team. So, like, it would be a plug-and-play experience. It’s more of the, lens of planning for the touchpoints with your client, evaluating what resourcing or,
86 00:20:52.620 ⇒ 00:20:59.870 Clarence Stone: or what the Gantt chart for your plans of how you want to execute on deliverables are, right?
87 00:21:00.520 ⇒ 00:21:04.859 Clarence Stone: Long story short, we have a lot more communication demand.
88 00:21:05.160 ⇒ 00:21:09.270 Clarence Stone: Because of that additional layer of connectivity.
89 00:21:10.590 ⇒ 00:21:11.829 Clarence Stone: Does that make sense?
90 00:21:13.150 ⇒ 00:21:21.729 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, I think that is the value add, right? You can make a dashboard and monitor metrics, but you can’t really
91 00:21:21.740 ⇒ 00:21:36.689 Jasmin Multani: look at it and decide what decisions are supposed to be made, without reviewing it week over week, or adding context and doing the ground-level research, being like, why did this degrade, over 3 weeks, and why did it stay that way?
92 00:21:36.690 ⇒ 00:22:01.040 Clarence Stone: And you’ll never hear about it, because you pass that dashboard to your client, and if you’re not, you know, high touch and asking really strong follow-up questions, or being able to infer from their facial reactions what’s happening during a presentation, they’ll be like, cool, thanks for that dashboard, and, like, there’s… there could have been so much more that you could have done to, you know, show the value of what they’re getting. So, I think that’s truly the challenge.
93 00:22:01.470 ⇒ 00:22:08.460 Clarence Stone: But one that we’re trying to formalize, you know, the learning and progression of for everyone on our team. Yeah.
94 00:22:08.460 ⇒ 00:22:18.750 Jasmin Multani: Oh yeah, I’ve been on both sides of that, just receiving dashboards, and I’m being like, what am I looking at? Like, you’re just… why are you spending so much money monitoring this metric?
95 00:22:19.100 ⇒ 00:22:24.179 Jasmin Multani: And it’s… You can’t even tell me if the fluctuation is good or bad.
96 00:22:24.180 ⇒ 00:22:48.090 Jasmin Multani: I think I’ve seen dashboards even at TikTok, where they’re like, yeah, it’s supposed to be trending downwards, but I’m like, why? Why is it trending downwards? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Like, we can make an argument for either case, and then ultimately the conversation ends in, well, Jasmine, you know, we monitor month over month, and if there’s a crazy big spike, then we do an RCA.
97 00:22:48.090 ⇒ 00:22:50.120 Jasmin Multani: And I’m like, well, that happens…
98 00:22:50.440 ⇒ 00:23:02.899 Jasmin Multani: maybe once a quarter, and B, by the time that happens, it’s like, it’s something’s broken. Very, very horribly broken. So, I… I think DoorDash really,
99 00:23:03.420 ⇒ 00:23:08.730 Jasmin Multani: drilled it into me. I think we saw… we definitely had a lot of ex-consultants,
100 00:23:09.210 ⇒ 00:23:23.969 Jasmin Multani: from all the… all the usual people, like, who are working next to me, working as my managers, they have the same feeling too, right? They love consulting because, at least in a startup, strategy not startup, you can actually…
101 00:23:24.040 ⇒ 00:23:34.660 Jasmin Multani: implement the suggestions that you were making directly with the engineers. And, I’m curious, like, is that something you… Brainforge…
102 00:23:34.840 ⇒ 00:23:39.759 Jasmin Multani: Consultants still get to witness, or is it still…
103 00:23:40.250 ⇒ 00:23:53.870 Clarence Stone: So my answer is that it is on you and your project pod, right? We’ve created structures in which, you know, there’s gonna be 3 leads in every single project for you.
104 00:23:53.950 ⇒ 00:24:13.289 Clarence Stone: One lead is going to be the customer or client success owner. Their job is to make sure the client’s happy with the deliverables, the timelines, they’re, you know, that they’re reaching out to the client, presenting these solutions to them. So they should have, like, what I love to call, like, the vibe check, right? Like, how’s the client feeling about what we’re creating?
105 00:24:13.290 ⇒ 00:24:31.730 Clarence Stone: And then we have the engagement planner, whose focus is actually taking a look at resourcing, the things that need to be done, creating the project approach, and making sure that those timelines are accurate, and raising the flag any time that, you know, we’re starting to deviate, or we have resource shortages, and things like that.
106 00:24:31.740 ⇒ 00:24:40.439 Clarence Stone: Right, so you have, in that case, somebody who’s in charge of making sure that trains are running on time. And then lastly, we have a service leader who’s supposed to be
107 00:24:40.470 ⇒ 00:24:57.759 Clarence Stone: your subject matter expert at whatever, you know, this project topic is about. And the cool thing about the synergy of these three roles is you have the CSO who’s always getting this vibe, right? Or getting a check on the sentiment of the customer. If, you know.
108 00:24:57.760 ⇒ 00:25:07.399 Clarence Stone: there seems to be signs that the customer actually wants us to be a part of the journey and continue building, or build something else, or join them in the next phase. Like.
109 00:25:07.430 ⇒ 00:25:18.039 Clarence Stone: that CSO or anyone else on the team who picks up on that in the meeting can actually say, hey, let’s actually group together and come up with a strategy to create an SOW to be involved in that next phase for the client.
110 00:25:18.340 ⇒ 00:25:19.360 Jasmin Multani: Right.
111 00:25:19.360 ⇒ 00:25:34.580 Clarence Stone: So project pods are empowered to have follow-on business and explore all of those things. In fact, leads, of these project pods, have a bonus structure where they get 5% of the first 6 months of sales that come out of these, growth,
112 00:25:34.580 ⇒ 00:25:45.270 Clarence Stone: wins. So, we’re incentivizing this, right? And two, like, yes, you can absolutely be a part of, you know, seeing the next phase and the next step with your client.
113 00:25:45.310 ⇒ 00:25:48.139 Clarence Stone: You, as a team, have to make that happen, though.
114 00:25:48.300 ⇒ 00:25:48.700 Jasmin Multani: Okay.
115 00:25:48.700 ⇒ 00:25:55.060 Clarence Stone: It’s not like, you know, when you’re in another company, you’re automatically going to move to the next phase, right? So…
116 00:25:55.340 ⇒ 00:26:01.710 Clarence Stone: There… With that nuance, yes, you get to, you know, follow along in that journey.
117 00:26:01.710 ⇒ 00:26:15.600 Jasmin Multani: Okay, cool. Yeah, this is an interesting structure. In the past, every rule I’ve had, I’ve had to be all three in one, but it ends up getting cumbersome.
118 00:26:16.100 ⇒ 00:26:29.649 Jasmin Multani: it gets cumbersome when there’s more bureaucracy, and I have to be like, well, why do I have to get this sign-off from this other person if I’m the… I’m managing everything, and I know the data? So…
119 00:26:30.040 ⇒ 00:26:39.770 Jasmin Multani: This is actually nice, because you at least have 3 pod leaders brainstorming with each other, and debating amongst each other, like, why is this the right thing to do, why is it not?
120 00:26:39.770 ⇒ 00:27:02.209 Clarence Stone: And I like to remind everyone, and by the way, we’re only two weeks into establishing this, we just started the brand new year. Everyone’s, you know, like, really already loving how this works, because they have so much autonomy and power to change things, right? Yeah. But I like to remind the teams, and I think when I said this, everything kind of clicks, is that I’m like, hey, I structure this so that it’s not competitive. There’s, like, we’re not stack ranking anybody.
121 00:27:02.250 ⇒ 00:27:08.510 Clarence Stone: In fact, I structure this in a way where if one of you falls short, all of you will lose.
122 00:27:08.510 ⇒ 00:27:09.770 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, right.
123 00:27:09.770 ⇒ 00:27:15.209 Clarence Stone: So, like, this is incentive for everyone to work together, solution together, and talk it out.
124 00:27:15.210 ⇒ 00:27:15.690 Jasmin Multani: Right, right.
125 00:27:15.690 ⇒ 00:27:21.750 Clarence Stone: everyone’s like, oh, okay, well, in that case, I gotta make some phone calls. So I was like, great! Get in touch with people, right?
126 00:27:21.750 ⇒ 00:27:22.840 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah.
127 00:27:22.840 ⇒ 00:27:35.429 Clarence Stone: And so, as soon as I said that, it made sense, right? Like, if you’re the engagement planner, you see something fall behind schedule, and you say nothing, well, obviously, like, it’s gonna be a bad look for you, but
128 00:27:35.570 ⇒ 00:27:55.730 Clarence Stone: the client success owner now has to take care of the relationship that is slightly broken now, right? And the service leader needs to figure out how they’re going to sequence the tickets in linear because of that, what happened. So everybody gets punished for this one situation, so why not work together to prevent these things from happening and solution together, right? So.
129 00:27:55.730 ⇒ 00:28:03.969 Clarence Stone: I hope that gives you some insight on how we like to work together at BringForge, which is very different from what you’ll probably see at most consultancies.
130 00:28:04.410 ⇒ 00:28:20.850 Jasmin Multani: I have a follow-up question there. So, what are some examples of things falling behind that the engagement leader would monitor, A, and B, who are they monitoring over? Is it engineers, analysts? Like, whose work are they supposed to be.
131 00:28:20.850 ⇒ 00:28:35.440 Clarence Stone: So, it depends on the project, right? We’ll definitely have those three lead roles, and then the rest of that team is full of different skill sets and capabilities that are needed based on that phase of the client engagement. For example, you know, if…
132 00:28:35.600 ⇒ 00:28:43.439 Clarence Stone: we have to do a ton of research on the front end before we actually start building something. We might put a bunch of data analysts in on that first phase.
133 00:28:43.740 ⇒ 00:28:56.200 Clarence Stone: you might join the stand-up, you might be part of that pod, and then as soon as, like, it goes into a build phase, we’ll reallocate those analysts somewhere else, and then stack it with backend and front-end developers to actually create the solution.
134 00:28:56.660 ⇒ 00:29:03.289 Clarence Stone: The pod itself could be fluid, but those three main leadership roles will stay.
135 00:29:03.560 ⇒ 00:29:04.759 Clarence Stone: Does that make sense?
136 00:29:05.170 ⇒ 00:29:22.170 Jasmin Multani: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And at least there, the analysts will cross-pollinate, and cross-pollinate with different leadership styles and expectations, so that way, it’s not just, like, the leader saying, hey, my partner is angry, you.
137 00:29:22.170 ⇒ 00:29:22.770 Clarence Stone: I’ll do it.
138 00:29:22.770 ⇒ 00:29:27.170 Jasmin Multani: It’s not, like, a one-way direction, it’s, like, the analysts understand, like.
139 00:29:27.660 ⇒ 00:29:38.109 Clarence Stone: Yeah. If I’m being asked. To answer your question about, like, what is this engagement planner, like, you know, watching over, it’s like, for example, here’s a great example, like,
140 00:29:38.350 ⇒ 00:29:52.359 Clarence Stone: one of the EPs today caught this. It’s like, hey, next week we’ve got, you know, these Google Analytics tagging, reports, right? Like, just sales pipeline reports that we’re guaranteeing to our client, like.
141 00:29:52.570 ⇒ 00:29:58.010 Clarence Stone: the EP just went on the chat and was like, does everyone have clear access to the GA?
142 00:29:58.300 ⇒ 00:30:02.459 Jasmin Multani: Of course. Because I haven’t seen a single report come out of that GA. Of course.
143 00:30:02.460 ⇒ 00:30:24.990 Clarence Stone: So, like, one of them just said, I tried logging in, actually, I don’t have access. All right, great! Like, that’s what you were supposed to pick up on. You preempted it because you looked at next week, right? And you’re asking about, like, can I make sure next week is good today, right? And that’s just everybody helping each other out. Like, no one dropped the ball here, it was just somebody on top of monitoring the situation.
144 00:30:24.990 ⇒ 00:30:26.689 Clarence Stone: And they corrected it. Like…
145 00:30:27.070 ⇒ 00:30:32.409 Clarence Stone: Really, like, nothing to be alarmed about, but it’s really how this system should work.
146 00:30:32.410 ⇒ 00:30:34.569 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, and I feel like…
147 00:30:35.950 ⇒ 00:30:43.999 Jasmin Multani: this is good, it feels like a flat hierarchy, where people are feeling empowered.
148 00:30:44.640 ⇒ 00:30:52.310 Jasmin Multani: And it puts the onus back on the individual to just, like, deepen their learning on their own, and I feel like that’s something…
149 00:30:52.430 ⇒ 00:31:01.369 Jasmin Multani: that’s, like, a transition I’m seeing, amongst my peers. I don’t know if it’s, like, given the time in career, or the time…
150 00:31:02.430 ⇒ 00:31:12.640 Jasmin Multani: Of all these tech advancements, but it feels like, everyone has to set their own pace, and is, like, deeply their own skills.
151 00:31:12.770 ⇒ 00:31:17.530 Jasmin Multani: Instead of feeling like, okay, I’m gonna study Python.
152 00:31:17.960 ⇒ 00:31:27.209 Jasmin Multani: And that’ll be enough for the next… for the next level up. Now it’s like, okay, what are things I actually like doing, and how can I use it with Python or SQL and so forth?
153 00:31:27.780 ⇒ 00:31:28.510 Jasmin Multani: Exactly.
154 00:31:28.510 ⇒ 00:31:34.319 Clarence Stone: And I’ll add to that by giving you a perspective on how we see growth here at Brainforge.
155 00:31:35.400 ⇒ 00:31:47.290 Clarence Stone: Leadership is the way upwards, whereas, like, your traditional tech companies may reward people who are deep into their expertise as a subject matter expert, we…
156 00:31:47.630 ⇒ 00:31:58.389 Clarence Stone: you know, while, you know, we want people who are SMEs, like, the capability to plan, to execute, and have great client conversations are,
157 00:31:58.390 ⇒ 00:32:21.360 Clarence Stone: kind of attitudes and behaviors that we want to grow and reward in the organization. So, I think it’s important for me to clearly state to you, like, hey, yeah, we absolutely want your technical expertise, but we also want to help you grow into one of these buckets as well, because that’s the only way up that we have in our organization. Now, if you step back and take a look at
158 00:32:21.780 ⇒ 00:32:30.359 Clarence Stone: the AI environment and what’s happening, within the industry. I will give you a clearer bet that by 20…
159 00:32:30.360 ⇒ 00:32:48.110 Clarence Stone: 30, that most of the human roles in organizations are going to be leadership roles. That people are going to manage, you know, either a set of automations or other people as their jobs, and, you know, individual contributor roles are going to be less and less frequent or common.
160 00:32:48.110 ⇒ 00:32:50.329 Clarence Stone: So, we’re really just…
161 00:32:50.590 ⇒ 00:33:09.470 Clarence Stone: creating an organization that’s, you know, bending towards the trends that are upcoming, and responding to, you know, how the environment’s changing drastically with AI capabilities. I don’t know what your thoughts are on that, but I’m also interested in hearing if any of those three leadership roles I just described seem interesting to you.
162 00:33:14.220 ⇒ 00:33:21.819 Jasmin Multani: First, I’m gonna work back from resources, right? So, first of all, this is gonna be a part-time role, from what I understand.
163 00:33:22.240 ⇒ 00:33:29.070 Clarence Stone: Well, full transparency, it could be a full-time role if we can slot you into one of those leadership buckets, and you’re interested in that.
164 00:33:30.760 ⇒ 00:33:31.680 Jasmin Multani: Okay.
165 00:33:31.810 ⇒ 00:33:38.740 Jasmin Multani: If it is, then that would mean I would quit TikTok. But I also need, like.
166 00:33:39.330 ⇒ 00:33:46.930 Jasmin Multani: transparency on… if you guys feel the same way as I do for a full-time role.
167 00:33:47.700 ⇒ 00:33:49.120 Jasmin Multani: So I’d say, like.
168 00:33:50.750 ⇒ 00:33:58.849 Jasmin Multani: engagement, engagement planner makes sense, and subject matter expert make the most sense. I think, in terms of…
169 00:33:59.370 ⇒ 00:34:08.740 Jasmin Multani: customer and client success work, I feel like that’s more gonna be with C-suite, and right now, like, what you touched up on, like, manage…
170 00:34:08.739 ⇒ 00:34:21.939 Jasmin Multani: future human roles are going to be focused on managing a set of automations or managing people. So, because I’ve been able to already launch some LLMs and automations at TikTok.
171 00:34:22.070 ⇒ 00:34:25.270 Jasmin Multani: I have that under the buckets.
172 00:34:25.639 ⇒ 00:34:33.470 Jasmin Multani: Cool. But now it’s time for me to flex, more people management roles. So I see myself, being more…
173 00:34:34.489 ⇒ 00:34:41.900 Jasmin Multani: internal focused, which is why I’m leaning more towards the second or third, pod lead role.
174 00:34:42.550 ⇒ 00:34:44.070 Clarence Stone: Gotcha, that makes sense.
175 00:34:45.050 ⇒ 00:34:50.060 Clarence Stone: By the way, I don’t have the full autonomy to make a call on whether you get to be fully.
176 00:34:50.060 ⇒ 00:34:50.550 Jasmin Multani: the Lord.
177 00:34:50.550 ⇒ 00:34:59.959 Clarence Stone: Just so you know. This is really a group consensus between the three of us, so I promise you I will take all of this back, is the best I can do, right?
178 00:34:59.960 ⇒ 00:35:00.490 Jasmin Multani: Absolutely not.
179 00:35:00.490 ⇒ 00:35:04.399 Clarence Stone: It’s very clear to me which ones you’re interested in makes sense.
180 00:35:05.190 ⇒ 00:35:10.670 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, of course, and I know that Robert mentioned that there’s kind of…
181 00:35:10.810 ⇒ 00:35:16.339 Jasmin Multani: Some apprehension in my ability to work in services.
182 00:35:19.310 ⇒ 00:35:30.310 Jasmin Multani: I want to be honest, like, if this doesn’t work out, then there’s no harsh feelings. But I would personally wish… my only ask is just, like, let me know,
183 00:35:30.560 ⇒ 00:35:37.709 Jasmin Multani: Because I will probably not quit my full-time job, if there’s only a part-time job on the table.
184 00:35:37.710 ⇒ 00:35:43.240 Clarence Stone: I mean, that totally makes sense from our end, like, why you wouldn’t want to, so it makes sense.
185 00:35:43.240 ⇒ 00:35:56.490 Jasmin Multani: And I’m happy to balance both. If this ends up just being a part-time role, for a short-term period, happy to do that. But I would just ask, like, what are those working hours look like? The worst thing for me would be…
186 00:35:58.340 ⇒ 00:36:16.069 Jasmin Multani: working at TikTok, and then realizing, oh, I have a Brain Forge meeting, and I’m supposed to respond in 30 minutes, I would feel very, very bad about that. So, just… that’s what I mean by resources, like, backtracking, role from the resources of what I can commit to.
187 00:36:16.070 ⇒ 00:36:22.090 Jasmin Multani: happy to do both full-time at TikTok and part-time at Brainforge, but it’s just a matter of, like.
188 00:36:22.840 ⇒ 00:36:26.400 Jasmin Multani: how engaged he would want me to be, which is why…
189 00:36:26.730 ⇒ 00:36:30.479 Jasmin Multani: I mean, I for sure would not be customer service,
190 00:36:31.250 ⇒ 00:36:34.660 Jasmin Multani: So… but just being honest from there, from that.
191 00:36:34.660 ⇒ 00:36:39.760 Clarence Stone: Yeah, sure, absolutely. Yeah, that makes sense. Bless you!
192 00:36:39.760 ⇒ 00:36:40.080 Jasmin Multani: Thank you.
193 00:36:41.130 ⇒ 00:36:46.519 Clarence Stone: I guess, like, at this point, is there anything I can help answer? Any other questions you may have had?
194 00:36:47.050 ⇒ 00:36:55.160 Jasmin Multani: Wanted to follow up on the subject matter expert pod, but I know we’re also at time. You know what?
195 00:36:56.120 ⇒ 00:37:14.809 Jasmin Multani: my ask here is just let me know what you need from me in the next steps, what the timeline looks like, just so I know I can give an answer to some of my other, interviews. I am looking, but it is passive, and it’s a matter of, like.
196 00:37:15.310 ⇒ 00:37:20.410 Jasmin Multani: Should I take an internal role at TikTok, which ends up being very…
197 00:37:20.740 ⇒ 00:37:28.720 Jasmin Multani: it’s a rigorous interview process on top of doing work at TikTok, they expect us to not…
198 00:37:29.900 ⇒ 00:37:47.150 Jasmin Multani: say no to anything, so it’s fine. But just let me know what the expectations are. If you need more time thinking about it, feel free, that’s totally appropriate. I just want this, season of job hunting to be, like, full alignment on both parts.
199 00:37:48.380 ⇒ 00:38:00.389 Jasmin Multani: I don’t want to spray and pray, so I am being very, mindful of, like, which jobs I’m reaching out to, and people I’m reaching out to this time around. And,
200 00:38:00.390 ⇒ 00:38:10.919 Jasmin Multani: that’s my only ask, like, just be transparent, and like, I really prefer things in writing, just because I forget things, and I’m like, wait, did he say that? Did he say that? So, that’s my main ask.
201 00:38:11.250 ⇒ 00:38:34.519 Clarence Stone: Cool, yeah, absolutely. Well, I’m just gonna take this back to Robert Newtown, and I can give you a guarantee that we’re gonna try to come to a decision with feedback for you as soon as possible. You know, our interest is also to make sure that we close out hiring pipelines as quickly as possible, and I think yours went a little bit long, so I apologize for that. It’s this whole, you know, holiday
202 00:38:34.520 ⇒ 00:38:41.480 Clarence Stone: crossover that… that made it a little difficult. So, we’ve definitely prioritized this, and we’ll let you know.
203 00:38:42.070 ⇒ 00:38:54.249 Jasmin Multani: Of course. Yeah, and again, mutual alignment is the most important thing. I love seeing Robert whenever he’s in town, so, I’m gonna keep this relationship, no matter what. So, no hard feelings, just…
204 00:38:54.940 ⇒ 00:38:56.640 Jasmin Multani: Let me know what’s happening, yeah.
205 00:38:57.130 ⇒ 00:38:58.319 Clarence Stone: Awesome! Sounds good!
206 00:38:58.320 ⇒ 00:38:59.960 Jasmin Multani: Alright, thank you so much!
207 00:38:59.960 ⇒ 00:39:04.259 Clarence Stone: Feel free to reach out and send me a ping if you have any other questions, though. I’m also around for that. Cool.
208 00:39:04.260 ⇒ 00:39:08.980 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, that’ll be a longer combo. Alright, sounds good. Thanks. Bye!