Meeting Title: Brainforge Career Path and Project Planning Date: 2026-01-06 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:00:07.030 ⇒ 00:00:09.290 Amber Lin: Hey, Amber. Hello.
2 00:00:16.050 ⇒ 00:00:17.170 Robert Tseng: Happy New Year!
3 00:00:17.480 ⇒ 00:00:22.149 Amber Lin: Happy New Year. I wish I was able to see you in New York.
4 00:00:22.550 ⇒ 00:00:28.360 Robert Tseng: Oh yeah, no worries, it was kind of last minute, and yeah, I mean, you were in DC, it was not that close.
5 00:00:28.900 ⇒ 00:00:34.390 Amber Lin: Yeah, I saw the train, and the quicker ones are, like, 3 hours and a half.
6 00:00:34.390 ⇒ 00:00:35.619 Robert Tseng: ours, yeah.
7 00:00:35.820 ⇒ 00:00:39.540 Amber Lin: Then they’re 200 bucks instead of 40, so…
8 00:00:39.540 ⇒ 00:00:40.110 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
9 00:00:40.720 ⇒ 00:00:41.170 Amber Lin: Hi, Gabe.
10 00:00:41.170 ⇒ 00:00:41.800 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
11 00:00:42.540 ⇒ 00:00:47.309 Robert Tseng: That’s okay. I think I’ll probably come to LA soon, and we’ll meet up in LA.
12 00:00:47.830 ⇒ 00:00:49.269 Amber Lin: Sounds good.
13 00:00:49.500 ⇒ 00:00:53.030 Amber Lin: How you been doing? Is your law school still continuing?
14 00:00:53.030 ⇒ 00:00:58.239 Robert Tseng: I have to decide this week whether or not I’m gonna continue… whether I’m gonna continue.
15 00:00:58.390 ⇒ 00:00:59.460 Amber Lin: Why is that?
16 00:01:00.280 ⇒ 00:01:07.939 Robert Tseng: Oh, well, I mean, the semester starts next week, so… I guess I have one more week to decide whether or not I’m gonna keep going.
17 00:01:08.710 ⇒ 00:01:14.500 Amber Lin: Why would you stop? It sounded like this is something you wanted to do for a long time.
18 00:01:14.860 ⇒ 00:01:18.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t know, I think it’s,
19 00:01:19.260 ⇒ 00:01:22.110 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, I kind of think about…
20 00:01:24.650 ⇒ 00:01:28.860 Robert Tseng: If where could I put the extra 15 to 20 hours a week, like…
21 00:01:29.710 ⇒ 00:01:44.659 Robert Tseng: I could put it into work, do more stuff at Brain Forge, there’s, like, other things that I would want to see at the time. Yeah, I don’t know, I think it’s… it’s not that… it’s not that I don’t want to, I just… I’m just undecided if the cost is worth it to me.
22 00:01:45.560 ⇒ 00:01:54.310 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… I think it kind of turned out the way that I expected. I did a little better than I thought. I mean, I knew I wasn’t gonna be…
23 00:01:54.420 ⇒ 00:01:58.100 Robert Tseng: top of my class, like, I’m not spending enough time, I guess.
24 00:01:58.230 ⇒ 00:02:02.870 Robert Tseng: But, yeah, so I think that’s just something personal for me to figure out, like.
25 00:02:03.260 ⇒ 00:02:07.870 Robert Tseng: I… maybe I can understand, but I’m like… I feel like I’m…
26 00:02:08.470 ⇒ 00:02:14.679 Robert Tseng: a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, and I don’t know if I always want to be that. I think I…
27 00:02:14.950 ⇒ 00:02:23.500 Robert Tseng: I enjoy, like, learning new things, and but it’s like, should I just, in this next season, just really…
28 00:02:24.170 ⇒ 00:02:27.280 Robert Tseng: I mean, I could dedicate another 20 hours a week
29 00:02:27.390 ⇒ 00:02:35.230 Robert Tseng: and just grind on brain horn if I… that’s what I really wanted to do. So, I… I’m just undecided if that’s… if that’s,
30 00:02:35.760 ⇒ 00:02:37.200 Robert Tseng: If that’s what I want to do, yeah.
31 00:02:37.200 ⇒ 00:02:53.959 Amber Lin: It was… it’s always a concern for me, too, and I think… remember the chief of staff he referred me to, she also did a lot of random things, and… Yeah, yeah. I think it turns out… like, my belief is that all the things you do ends up helping.
32 00:02:53.960 ⇒ 00:03:06.250 Amber Lin: Like, even though I did PM, and I did data, and then it did help, like, regardless if I pivoted, and I think I’m just much happier if I have something new to do versus
33 00:03:06.400 ⇒ 00:03:13.030 Amber Lin: grind to a, like, grinding to a T on a specific thing.
34 00:03:13.400 ⇒ 00:03:13.840 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
35 00:03:13.840 ⇒ 00:03:19.169 Amber Lin: But I do foresee that… That conflict coming up soon, again.
36 00:03:19.520 ⇒ 00:03:25.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, yeah, so, I mean, I think I understand. I feel like we’re similar in that way, so…
37 00:03:25.760 ⇒ 00:03:28.070 Robert Tseng: I get that. I feel like I…
38 00:03:28.940 ⇒ 00:03:34.860 Robert Tseng: I feel like I do better when I have something to look forward to. There’s always something new that I’m learning.
39 00:03:35.210 ⇒ 00:03:38.249 Robert Tseng: And… but yeah, we’ll see. It’s…
40 00:03:38.250 ⇒ 00:03:38.990 Amber Lin: Yeah.
41 00:03:38.990 ⇒ 00:03:40.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
42 00:03:40.480 ⇒ 00:03:43.769 Amber Lin: I think you can continue, because how long is law school? Is it…
43 00:03:43.770 ⇒ 00:03:47.839 Robert Tseng: It’s three and a half years, yeah, for the part… for the part-time program.
44 00:03:48.030 ⇒ 00:03:56.350 Amber Lin: Oh, I see. Can you delay her, or if you stop it, is it just ended for life, or, like, how does that work if you don’t go?
45 00:03:56.350 ⇒ 00:04:00.319 Robert Tseng: I think… I think there were ways to start it up again, but, like.
46 00:04:00.450 ⇒ 00:04:05.609 Robert Tseng: Practically speaking, I think if I stopped now, I probably wouldn’t go back to it. So…
47 00:04:05.980 ⇒ 00:04:06.840 Amber Lin: Hmm.
48 00:04:06.840 ⇒ 00:04:11.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, because my wife and I want to have kids within 2 years, and so…
49 00:04:11.720 ⇒ 00:04:18.070 Robert Tseng: It’s like, once that comes into the picture, I can’t imagine being in school and, like, that’s just so…
50 00:04:18.209 ⇒ 00:04:25.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I feel like this is the last window for me to actually go for it. Yeah, so…
51 00:04:25.810 ⇒ 00:04:29.619 Amber Lin: Yeah. Or maybe when you solve Brain Forge, and then you’ll have more time.
52 00:04:29.910 ⇒ 00:04:31.789 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, sure, if I, if I…
53 00:04:31.790 ⇒ 00:04:38.910 Amber Lin: be like Kim Kardashian and go to law school for fun, you know. Yeah.
54 00:04:39.130 ⇒ 00:04:39.940 Amber Lin: Okay.
55 00:04:39.940 ⇒ 00:04:43.380 Robert Tseng: What about you? How are things? How are you handling the little changes?
56 00:04:43.380 ⇒ 00:04:44.470 Amber Lin: Oh, yeah.
57 00:04:44.720 ⇒ 00:05:00.089 Amber Lin: It’s pretty good, so I’m in the process of applying for my STEM OPT extension. I think it’ll go well, but then also, like, me and Nico are thinking about marriage, so it’s, like, big things hovering in the air of…
58 00:05:00.090 ⇒ 00:05:00.760 Robert Tseng: Great, yeah.
59 00:05:00.760 ⇒ 00:05:17.280 Amber Lin: the application is a very big process, and, like, we need to… my parents are okay with it, her parents are not, not yet, because I think, like, we’re still so… so… such young adults, so gotta think about a lot of stuff before… before we.
60 00:05:17.280 ⇒ 00:05:17.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
61 00:05:17.680 ⇒ 00:05:25.299 Amber Lin: that decision, so that’s, like, that’s the main topic that circulates around between us recently. Okay.
62 00:05:25.610 ⇒ 00:05:38.420 Amber Lin: other than that, I was having, I was thinking about what I do for work, and I realized I was really happy when I switched to data analysis, probably because
63 00:05:38.590 ⇒ 00:05:48.219 Amber Lin: I hit a plateau on PMing, like, I worked through one plateau, and the second one, it just… I couldn’t pass it without technical experience.
64 00:05:48.290 ⇒ 00:06:03.910 Amber Lin: So at that point, life was a little bit miserable, and then we did data analysis, and it was so new, because I knew nothing about any of the stuff we were doing, so that was very… that was very,
65 00:06:04.160 ⇒ 00:06:20.300 Amber Lin: very fun, and it was very hard, but very fun. So over the break, I didn’t often see this structural change, so I was just thinking about where I would go in data analysis, and I was very excited. I was like, okay, I think the next step is to,
66 00:06:20.420 ⇒ 00:06:32.709 Amber Lin: actually own more of the problems, think about owning one thing, just one investigation from end to end. So that’s kind of where I want to go, but I don’t know if there’s enough data analysis work
67 00:06:32.830 ⇒ 00:06:38.169 Amber Lin: currently in the company, I saw the strategy meeting get strong, and I was like, oh no.
68 00:06:38.180 ⇒ 00:06:41.130 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah. The clans are not there.
69 00:06:41.130 ⇒ 00:06:48.950 Amber Lin: So I’ll probably do, sounds like I would be with ABC for a bit, and there’s some analysis work happening there.
70 00:06:48.950 ⇒ 00:06:54.769 Robert Tseng: Again, new stuff, I was looking at the data, and it was all financial data, and I was like, oh…
71 00:06:55.460 ⇒ 00:06:55.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
72 00:06:55.860 ⇒ 00:06:58.050 Amber Lin: all Excel.
73 00:06:58.290 ⇒ 00:06:58.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
74 00:06:59.470 ⇒ 00:07:01.620 Amber Lin: So… Yeah, obviously, like…
75 00:07:01.620 ⇒ 00:07:04.980 Robert Tseng: ABC is the next big opportunity for you,
76 00:07:05.300 ⇒ 00:07:13.319 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, I mean, it’s a different industry, moving away from CPG, it’s more services. In some ways, it’s easier to understand, because it’s…
77 00:07:13.500 ⇒ 00:07:17.649 Robert Tseng: it’s, like, I mean, yeah, I don’t know, I think there’s fewer line items, and…
78 00:07:17.780 ⇒ 00:07:23.809 Robert Tseng: there’s no bundle… I mean, bundling is a lot simpler in services than it is in products, but… yeah, I don’t know, yeah.
79 00:07:24.170 ⇒ 00:07:34.220 Amber Lin: Yeah, and I was just looking at the data, thinking about how to go about it. I guess I wanted to ask you that, too, just to get some
80 00:07:34.260 ⇒ 00:07:48.239 Amber Lin: like, a little bit of guidance before I dive in, but before that, I wanted to see, like, am I still going to be, needed on Honey Stinger? I know Insomnia’s paused. Do you still need anything on Honey Stinger?
81 00:07:48.500 ⇒ 00:07:54.989 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so there’s a few clients that we’re kind of in transition. Honey Stinger is one of them. I mean, I think we’re gonna renew with them, but I’m working on that.
82 00:07:55.110 ⇒ 00:08:05.490 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I mean, like you said, I think the… our book of business has kind of shifted, like, there’s fewer strategy, kind of, and analytics clients right now.
83 00:08:05.610 ⇒ 00:08:08.430 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m going really smooth
84 00:08:08.740 ⇒ 00:08:10.709 Robert Tseng: Back into sales to try to…
85 00:08:10.860 ⇒ 00:08:22.380 Robert Tseng: So, like, I feel like Utam and I, our positions kind of flipped. Like, I feel like at the start of Q4 of last year, it was, like, mostly clients that I was, like, on, and then it was kind of just selling.
86 00:08:23.370 ⇒ 00:08:35.659 Robert Tseng: I stopped selling, and then things kind of flipped, so, so now he’s, like, really busy, so I have to find stuff, and I definitely have a lot fewer clients right now. So, yeah, I…
87 00:08:36.100 ⇒ 00:08:49.629 Robert Tseng: I mean, we gotta get out of this, like, kind of, like, seesaw thing, but, like, and just have a motion where we’re continuously selling, both of us, but, that’s just kind of where we’re at right now. But yeah, anyway, the short of it with Honey Singer is, like.
88 00:08:49.740 ⇒ 00:08:54.469 Robert Tseng: I mean, I expect them to renew, but we’re just kind of working through the details of it right now.
89 00:08:55.120 ⇒ 00:09:03.269 Amber Lin: Okay, so it sounds like a recent… like, you’ll tell me when it’s set in stone. I don’t think I’m doing any analysis for them recently?
90 00:09:03.670 ⇒ 00:09:11.589 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, yeah, they’re effectively paused right now. So, I mean, the idea is for you to just really, kind of, run with, ABC, like.
91 00:09:11.710 ⇒ 00:09:28.799 Robert Tseng: you know, they’re not fully locked in on the strategy and analytics work, so I know you’re… a lot of the work that you’re doing right now is just, like, audits, discovery, figuring out what’s going on. I mean, thankfully they’re paying us for that, but eventually that’ll become, you know, like a fixed body of work, hopefully.
92 00:09:28.800 ⇒ 00:09:29.410 Amber Lin: Yeah.
93 00:09:29.420 ⇒ 00:09:30.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
94 00:09:31.080 ⇒ 00:09:39.049 Amber Lin: I guess the next question is, what do you foresee, say, my path in Brainforge? Because things have…
95 00:09:39.050 ⇒ 00:09:46.640 Robert Tseng: fluctuated a lot, and right now, I’m kind of back to PMing, but also doing the analytics. I just don’t know where…
96 00:09:46.640 ⇒ 00:09:59.030 Amber Lin: where the shift would be, and… Yeah. Like, I would like to also learn some stuff on my own. Like, because my role has shifted so significantly, I don’t really know which path to…
97 00:09:59.280 ⇒ 00:09:59.790 Amber Lin: like…
98 00:09:59.790 ⇒ 00:10:00.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
99 00:10:00.280 ⇒ 00:10:02.709 Amber Lin: Decline my own growth, and to…
100 00:10:02.710 ⇒ 00:10:09.429 Robert Tseng: Well, I guess, like, this new structure that we’ve rolled out is… Our last attempt at, like.
101 00:10:10.410 ⇒ 00:10:29.970 Robert Tseng: I mean, worst case, if it doesn’t work out, we go back to PMs. In which case, you will not be a PM, we will go and hire other PMs or whatever, it’s fine. But we’re… you know, Clarence came in, he’s been, like, really pushing for the structure. The idea is to, like, out of the core delivery people, to have them spend 20 to 30… like, 20 to 30% of their time.
102 00:10:29.980 ⇒ 00:10:35.099 Robert Tseng: managing projects, so everyone, in a sense, is kind of taking on some share of PM work.
103 00:10:35.450 ⇒ 00:10:40.280 Robert Tseng: Or at least on that… of anyone who’s a CSO, EP, or SL.
104 00:10:40.390 ⇒ 00:10:47.219 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, I… I don’t really think, like, you should view yourself as a PM, like.
105 00:10:47.650 ⇒ 00:10:58.510 Robert Tseng: Ideally, you’ll be spending more of your time on the strategy and analytics side. And yeah, it’s like my… my goal to try to get you more… more clients there.
106 00:10:59.800 ⇒ 00:11:17.229 Robert Tseng: I think right now, I mean, ABC is the one that has the biggest opportunity for you to grow into, but yeah, I guess, like, your mobility would be to become a CSO on one of those clients, and, like, also learn how to engagement plan, which I think is more, kind of, like.
107 00:11:17.380 ⇒ 00:11:18.520 Robert Tseng: doing…
108 00:11:19.350 ⇒ 00:11:30.210 Robert Tseng: I mean, it is kind of project management, but more, like, you’re basically… I think it’s more strategy, than… than it is, like, this traditional PM work, because you have to…
109 00:11:30.320 ⇒ 00:11:47.660 Robert Tseng: it’s a lot of the same stuff that you’re doing, but, like, building the project plans, the Gantt charts, like, figuring out, like, what… what do we actually need to do to accomplish those objectives, and… and kind of hopefully you being paired with the CSO first, would… would help.
110 00:11:47.820 ⇒ 00:11:54.340 Robert Tseng: You’d be able to develop that kind of, skill set.
111 00:11:54.730 ⇒ 00:12:11.639 Amber Lin: Yeah. Oh, I’ll see how it goes for the… for a month. I think I need to give it a chance first to see how it fit. Like, I don’t… I don’t… I don’t think I’m opposed to it, it’s just, like, I ex… it was not my expectation to go take on that responsibility again, so that’s why.
112 00:12:11.640 ⇒ 00:12:12.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
113 00:12:12.020 ⇒ 00:12:17.330 Amber Lin: a little bit in flux, but it wasn’t… it’s not that different from what I was doing before, so…
114 00:12:17.330 ⇒ 00:12:17.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
115 00:12:19.350 ⇒ 00:12:24.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I guess we’ll see. I think it’s all kind of new to us. We’re… we’re kind of…
116 00:12:25.280 ⇒ 00:12:32.989 Robert Tseng: trying to… trying to figure out, yeah, I mean, if it doesn’t work within a month, we’ll shut it down. So, I mean, this is… Udon’s very anxious about…
117 00:12:33.330 ⇒ 00:12:36.459 Robert Tseng: how this will turn out. Yeah, like, Kim…
118 00:12:36.460 ⇒ 00:12:43.750 Amber Lin: I can tell. He’s putting in so much effort into this, and spending so much time, like, I hope it turns out well.
119 00:12:44.110 ⇒ 00:12:44.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
120 00:12:45.140 ⇒ 00:12:48.580 Robert Tseng: I’m also not that optimistic, because I’m like.
121 00:12:48.870 ⇒ 00:12:57.919 Amber Lin: can our engineers really become PMs? Like, I don’t know, like, we dress it up with all this, like, language or whatever, but that’s ultimately what we’re trying to get them to do.
122 00:12:58.270 ⇒ 00:13:02.780 Robert Tseng: But, well, I won’t say anything, we’ll just… we’ll try it out.
123 00:13:03.130 ⇒ 00:13:16.880 Amber Lin: Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah, I… mostly my question today was also on how do I… how should I approach this ABC… ABC thing? Because currently, what I have is mostly
124 00:13:17.030 ⇒ 00:13:21.910 Amber Lin: Sales data, there’s a lot of past year’s data.
125 00:13:21.910 ⇒ 00:13:22.280 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
126 00:13:22.280 ⇒ 00:13:35.649 Amber Lin: And, like, based on the discovery I’m supposed to do, I don’t really know what I’m trying to find for them. Because right now, with all the Excel rows and all the sheets, I can find what I’ve already done.
127 00:13:35.850 ⇒ 00:13:48.930 Amber Lin: Yeah. They already know what they’ve already done, so I don’t really know what type of insights I’m gonna find from historical data that’s gonna make them go, oh, that’s an opportunity.
128 00:13:50.280 ⇒ 00:14:06.520 Amber Lin: Like, they have previous year, they’re all their books, like the financial closing, like, the bad debts, and this and that. I have monthly sales, they have, like, payments and credits, and they’re… it’s all sales and, like, finance data. I don’t really know what I can get out of it.
129 00:14:07.580 ⇒ 00:14:14.389 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Have you looked at the ABC industry, like, deck that, like, Clarence put together?
130 00:14:14.390 ⇒ 00:14:15.960 Amber Lin: Mmm, and what’s there?
131 00:14:16.250 ⇒ 00:14:17.320 Robert Tseng: You were there, right?
132 00:14:17.320 ⇒ 00:14:20.200 Amber Lin: And listening online. It was pretty cool.
133 00:14:20.660 ⇒ 00:14:23.130 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, so, I mean…
134 00:14:23.610 ⇒ 00:14:31.300 Robert Tseng: he’s basically trying to do, like, a market sizing, kind of opportunity sizing kind of, like, exercise, right? So…
135 00:14:31.430 ⇒ 00:14:40.799 Robert Tseng: I guess, like, for you to validate or con… or disprove, like, what he’s seeing, I think is an insight that you can work. Like, historically, does this actually make sense?
136 00:14:40.880 ⇒ 00:14:47.240 Robert Tseng: I mean, do you agree, like, can we tell, like, is the market size of us? Like, I think last time we talked about ABC,
137 00:14:47.270 ⇒ 00:15:01.930 Robert Tseng: that’s like, okay, San Antonio seems like it has a high, like, a high… it’s a secondary market for them, highest opportunity to grow. I think that what you will find is, when you slice the data, you’re benchmarking San Antonio against Austin. Austin is, like.
138 00:15:01.930 ⇒ 00:15:08.749 Robert Tseng: this is the mature market, this is what we should expect. San Antonio, is looking like
139 00:15:08.830 ⇒ 00:15:10.940 Robert Tseng: You know, maybe they’re…
140 00:15:11.230 ⇒ 00:15:19.639 Robert Tseng: they’re not… maybe they are growing… growing quickly. Maybe there’s a particular service line in San Antonio that sticks out that’s, like, doing better than Austin.
141 00:15:19.690 ⇒ 00:15:32.759 Robert Tseng: Like, I think those are, like, some of the opportunities that you could spot, and see if that really, like, matches up against the market trends that, I guess, this is pretty high level, what Clarence put together, but I think that’s, like, one angle you could go.
142 00:15:34.290 ⇒ 00:15:36.540 Robert Tseng: And then, also, yeah, I think
143 00:15:37.120 ⇒ 00:15:43.790 Robert Tseng: you’re really trying to complement Zoran’s work, too, right? In terms of, like, from a marketing perspective.
144 00:15:43.960 ⇒ 00:15:52.229 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just kind of… you don’t have to build a whole demand forecasting model or anything, but, like, kind of just… kind of thinking through the inputs and outputs of, like.
145 00:15:52.260 ⇒ 00:16:09.479 Robert Tseng: okay, well, what are our customers, like, coming in to ABC right now, right? What are all the different channels? And you’re trying to… trying to, like, help them under… like, understand which channels to activate. So, I think doing some sort of, like, channel-level analysis would be… would be helpful as well.
146 00:16:11.190 ⇒ 00:16:29.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, let’s say 50% of their customers come in through, like, phone or word of mouth or whatever. You know what the cost of that customer service center and that whole motion is to keep that channel. You… that’s… that’s, like, you have channel-level, like, economics there, right? Like, you know the return, you know the cost.
147 00:16:29.940 ⇒ 00:16:36.339 Robert Tseng: And then you’re bench… you’re comparing that against, like, digital marketing channels, which, you know, the stuff that you’re maybe more familiar with.
148 00:16:36.680 ⇒ 00:16:44.860 Robert Tseng: well, maybe ads you’re not really too familiar with, but ads, tracking, like, maybe Zorong can help you with some of those, like, ideas, but…
149 00:16:45.770 ⇒ 00:16:55.540 Robert Tseng: yeah, if we can basically go to them and be like, look, your biggest customer acquisition channel is X, your cost… the efficiency is Y,
150 00:16:55.830 ⇒ 00:17:07.079 Robert Tseng: these are the other channels that have… that are underutilized, have more opportunity, like, the opportunity size is bigger, we should focus on those channels. I think that’s really the… that’s what we should push them towards.
151 00:17:07.560 ⇒ 00:17:18.770 Amber Lin: I see. I’ll see if I can find, those. It’s probably likely in their, like, financial… year-end financial reporting, but…
152 00:17:19.240 ⇒ 00:17:33.360 Amber Lin: I get the… I’m able to find the market data. I don’t know if this current data we have has the marketing spend, but you bring up a really good point that I should look at that.
153 00:17:33.740 ⇒ 00:17:39.559 Amber Lin: Do you know what else Lauren will be doing, so I can think about it a little earlier, and then…
154 00:17:39.910 ⇒ 00:17:44.929 Amber Lin: Prep a little data, or just point him on where to go for that.
155 00:17:45.600 ⇒ 00:17:50.369 Robert Tseng: I think he’s just being asked to look at GA data, is what I am aware of so far.
156 00:17:50.740 ⇒ 00:18:01.530 Robert Tseng: I mean, what he’s gonna find is just, like, their digital traffic, right? So, I think he’s basically gonna try to scope out what he’s done on Eden, which is just, like.
157 00:18:01.790 ⇒ 00:18:12.800 Robert Tseng: improving track… tracking accuracy and, and, like, tagging and tracking is kind of his thing. So I think that’s what he’ll be driving towards.
158 00:18:13.400 ⇒ 00:18:20.769 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I don’t really think he’s… I mean, I haven’t heard of any other, like, marketing channels that they’re working on right now, so…
159 00:18:21.950 ⇒ 00:18:23.320 Amber Lin: I see. Okay.
160 00:18:23.470 ⇒ 00:18:23.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
161 00:18:23.830 ⇒ 00:18:24.450 Amber Lin: I’ll check it.
162 00:18:24.450 ⇒ 00:18:33.359 Robert Tseng: I think if you want to go in a different direction from marketing as well, just to, like, give you a couple more ideas, one is, like, doing, like, a…
163 00:18:34.310 ⇒ 00:18:42.199 Robert Tseng: trying to understand the P&L across service lines. So, you should be able to do that in the Excel docs, right? Being able to show
164 00:18:42.660 ⇒ 00:18:43.460 Robert Tseng: like.
165 00:18:43.730 ⇒ 00:18:59.539 Robert Tseng: you know, from a portfolio perspective, what services should they be promoting? Are they looking to add any incremental services? Like, they are a pretty mature company to a million in revenue, so, like, I… you know, you could spend a lot of time just, like, kind of…
166 00:18:59.710 ⇒ 00:19:12.280 Robert Tseng: doing a little bit of what we did for, school parts. If you remember, you were looking at different products and bundles and suggesting new products, or, like, well, we weren’t really…
167 00:19:13.640 ⇒ 00:19:23.779 Robert Tseng: we didn’t really, like, opportunity size new products for them, but, like, maybe that’s a little bit easier to do for… for ABC. So, I can… I know that’s pretty, like.
168 00:19:24.410 ⇒ 00:19:36.679 Robert Tseng: open, like, I don’t really know what all their service lines are, how frequently they add new services, and how that process works, but, you know, that’s… that’s a way that they can expand their, their, their market as well.
169 00:19:36.780 ⇒ 00:19:52.569 Robert Tseng: So, that’s on the supply side, right? So, I think, in summary, on the demand side, you’re looking at all the different, like, kind of channels that they can go and get new demand from in marketing, and then on the supply side, you’re looking at, like, what service lines are the
170 00:19:52.670 ⇒ 00:20:00.250 Robert Tseng: ones that they should double down on, versus, like, which ones should they go and open up? Like, what… how do they even, like, launch the service lines? Yeah.
171 00:20:07.010 ⇒ 00:20:09.310 Amber Lin: Sounds like a consulting case.
172 00:20:09.750 ⇒ 00:20:14.149 Robert Tseng: Yeah. That’s, that’s exactly right, yeah. Yeah.
173 00:20:15.280 ⇒ 00:20:16.490 Amber Lin: Okay, okay.
174 00:20:17.300 ⇒ 00:20:20.070 Amber Lin: I… I think my brain is very…
175 00:20:20.980 ⇒ 00:20:30.159 Amber Lin: fogged from my sickness, but I think that’s a good direction to go, and I’ll… I’ll take a little look and see what data I can use.
176 00:20:30.860 ⇒ 00:20:31.390 Robert Tseng: Fair.
177 00:20:33.120 ⇒ 00:20:34.190 Amber Lin: Very helpful.
178 00:20:34.710 ⇒ 00:20:35.540 Amber Lin: Okay.
179 00:20:37.320 ⇒ 00:20:47.400 Amber Lin: That’s mostly it. Would you like me to join the morning strategy meetings, or should I wait until Honey Stinger is back on today?
180 00:20:47.400 ⇒ 00:20:49.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you don’t have to until you’re…
181 00:20:50.100 ⇒ 00:20:52.079 Amber Lin: kind of staffed on client… well, I guess…
182 00:20:52.350 ⇒ 00:20:58.450 Robert Tseng: we… I mean, since you are involved in the ABC side, you should probably join it. Right, so…
183 00:21:00.610 ⇒ 00:21:05.529 Robert Tseng: I forget, are you… are you assigned as a… as, like, a CSO, ET, or SL?
184 00:21:05.530 ⇒ 00:21:10.879 Amber Lin: No, not a CSO, just, just EP on ABC and Honey Stinger.
185 00:21:11.100 ⇒ 00:21:14.710 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay. Well, yeah, then you should join. We talked about,
186 00:21:15.540 ⇒ 00:21:18.300 Robert Tseng: about ABC today on the call, so yeah, I think we should…
187 00:21:18.750 ⇒ 00:21:21.440 Amber Lin: Okay, cool, sounds good.
188 00:21:21.820 ⇒ 00:21:22.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
189 00:21:22.500 ⇒ 00:21:27.860 Amber Lin: Alright, let me know if you decide to go back to school. I think it’s a good choice.
190 00:21:28.180 ⇒ 00:21:30.960 Amber Lin: I will not ever find time again, but there’s.
191 00:21:30.960 ⇒ 00:21:31.750 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah.
192 00:21:31.750 ⇒ 00:21:32.490 Amber Lin: work.
193 00:21:32.940 ⇒ 00:21:41.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I… I agree. I think, I think… my reflection on Brainforge was… It…
194 00:21:41.660 ⇒ 00:21:46.540 Robert Tseng: I mean, we exceeded our goal in terms of how far we wanted to grow last… by the end of the year.
195 00:21:47.330 ⇒ 00:21:53.410 Robert Tseng: my role has shifted. It continues to shift. I mean, like, you as well. Like, I understand, like.
196 00:21:53.900 ⇒ 00:21:59.499 Robert Tseng: You feel like you settle into a groove, you, like, know what you’re doing, and then things kind of change on you, and you’re like, oh, like.
197 00:21:59.810 ⇒ 00:22:09.899 Robert Tseng: it is kind of just continuing to fight that, like, resistance to change. I… yeah, we have no choice but to embrace it, and
198 00:22:10.110 ⇒ 00:22:17.750 Robert Tseng: yeah, for me to… it’s like, I see it as more like, okay, well, maybe the next quarter, I’m really going to, like.
199 00:22:18.650 ⇒ 00:22:21.610 Robert Tseng: Focus my time on… on the sales side again.
200 00:22:21.780 ⇒ 00:22:27.699 Robert Tseng: Yeah, because I feel like I haven’t really made much progress on it over the past…
201 00:22:28.160 ⇒ 00:22:34.239 Robert Tseng: one to two quarters. Like, last quarter, definitely not. It’s kind of just been a revolving door with some of our staff on that side.
202 00:22:34.350 ⇒ 00:22:45.520 Robert Tseng: But I’m excited about Luke starting, and so there’s… there’s definitely new things to look forward to, at Brain Forge as well for me, especially on the sales side. Yeah, and I guess…
203 00:22:46.150 ⇒ 00:22:53.630 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, it’s like, is that enough? Like, do I… do I still need school on top of that? Like, I’m not sure. Like, I have to… I have to figure that out, so…
204 00:22:53.630 ⇒ 00:22:54.620 Amber Lin: Let’s see.
205 00:22:54.620 ⇒ 00:22:55.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
206 00:22:55.190 ⇒ 00:22:58.590 Amber Lin: Let’s see… is Jasmine starting with us?
207 00:22:59.010 ⇒ 00:23:06.219 Robert Tseng: She is… we’re like… She’s basically, like,
208 00:23:07.790 ⇒ 00:23:12.810 Robert Tseng: She has an opportunity to move laterally at TikTok as well, so she’s considering doing that.
209 00:23:13.150 ⇒ 00:23:17.779 Robert Tseng: I… my gut is that… She wants to build, like.
210 00:23:18.190 ⇒ 00:23:20.920 Robert Tseng: a great product, and that’s not what.
211 00:23:20.920 ⇒ 00:23:21.300 Amber Lin: Hmm.
212 00:23:21.440 ⇒ 00:23:23.289 Robert Tseng: do. We’re a servicing company.
213 00:23:23.670 ⇒ 00:23:28.280 Robert Tseng: So I feel like she’s not gonna end up choosing to go with Rain Forge.
214 00:23:28.560 ⇒ 00:23:36.840 Robert Tseng: So yeah, we’re still on the hunt for, like, a head of delivery, and… yeah, I mean, SESM’s situation was kind of rough, because…
215 00:23:36.910 ⇒ 00:23:51.659 Robert Tseng: kind of a similar boat as you, like, I feel like we could have done the same thing, but whatever, she decided to go with, like, her other part-time thing. I was willing to sponsor her, and I was not, like, that willing to go and fight for it as much.
216 00:23:52.040 ⇒ 00:23:54.990 Robert Tseng: Because I do feel like she’s actually less…
217 00:23:55.370 ⇒ 00:23:59.080 Robert Tseng: skilled than you are, and, I was like.
218 00:23:59.810 ⇒ 00:24:08.640 Robert Tseng: kind of just like, well, maybe we should just go and find someone else. So, yeah, we’re… we’re kind of, like, still lagging on the delivery side, so…
219 00:24:08.970 ⇒ 00:24:14.330 Robert Tseng: I think what are the most urgent need that we need, hiring-wise, is to get
220 00:24:14.430 ⇒ 00:24:18.160 Robert Tseng: the Lauren person, the head of HR ops that we…
221 00:24:18.780 ⇒ 00:24:24.599 Robert Tseng: weren’t successfully… we didn’t… we didn’t successfully get Lauren, so she ended up going with a different offer.
222 00:24:24.840 ⇒ 00:24:28.030 Robert Tseng: But yeah, we just need someone who’s able to better help
223 00:24:28.220 ⇒ 00:24:33.389 Robert Tseng: us higher on the delivery side. I just feel like we’re not… We’re not able to…
224 00:24:35.060 ⇒ 00:24:44.310 Robert Tseng: we’ve been able to hire a lot of, like, overseas engineers, I guess, but we’re just not good at hiring, like, some of the core people that we need, domestically, so…
225 00:24:44.500 ⇒ 00:24:45.160 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
226 00:24:45.600 ⇒ 00:24:46.429 Amber Lin: I see.
227 00:24:46.610 ⇒ 00:24:47.460 Robert Tseng: Yes.
228 00:24:47.460 ⇒ 00:25:00.779 Amber Lin: Hiring’s always tough. I had my… I think when I was trying to hire for PMs, it was a… it was a tragic fail, and I was like, wow. Like, I thought… I thought I had good judgment. It did not turn out well.
229 00:25:01.330 ⇒ 00:25:07.430 Robert Tseng: No, no, I mean, it’s… you never know, yeah. Like, I don’t think any of us have been consistently…
230 00:25:07.540 ⇒ 00:25:14.090 Robert Tseng: Like, hiring great people, so… yeah, we just… it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s horrible.
231 00:25:14.090 ⇒ 00:25:15.040 Amber Lin: Yeah. Yeah.
232 00:25:15.280 ⇒ 00:25:21.530 Amber Lin: But it’s almost… it’s almost gonna be a full year after… after… 2…
233 00:25:21.770 ⇒ 00:25:25.030 Amber Lin: 3… 2 months is gonna be a full year.
234 00:25:25.600 ⇒ 00:25:37.119 Robert Tseng: Yeah, now you’re up, you’re up for, you’re up for a bump, and I mean, I think under this new structure, like, there’s clear, like, pathways for you that hopefully, like, you know.
235 00:25:37.270 ⇒ 00:25:43.880 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think we’ve evolved as an org over the past year. Wouldn’t have been able to do it without you, and yeah, we’re excited to…
236 00:25:44.350 ⇒ 00:25:46.070 Robert Tseng: To keep it going, so…
237 00:25:46.070 ⇒ 00:26:05.769 Amber Lin: Yeah, I appreciate it. I’m glad… I feel like in the first half year, I was very close with Uten because I was doing PM stuff, and then the later part, I was closer with doing the data analysis stuff, so I feel like I gained two skills in one year. I was very, very, very happy. I was like, this is, like, what else can I…
238 00:26:05.810 ⇒ 00:26:12.230 Amber Lin: ask for it at work. Like, I enjoy the work most of the times, and… Like, that’s…
239 00:26:12.860 ⇒ 00:26:14.499 Amber Lin: That’s very hard to find.
240 00:26:15.320 ⇒ 00:26:17.680 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I, I, we,
241 00:26:18.080 ⇒ 00:26:30.259 Robert Tseng: Yeah, you’ve been able to just kind of roll with everything that’s been going on. I know it’s not easy, like, you can see that I obviously struggle with it myself in decisions that I have to make for myself, so…
242 00:26:31.110 ⇒ 00:26:34.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s, it’s not easy being, being, being,
243 00:26:34.700 ⇒ 00:26:47.769 Robert Tseng: being part of this, but I feel like, yeah, I mean, I feel like you’ve gotten a lot of exposure and learned a lot more than I did in my first year at any job, so, yeah, I mean, I…
244 00:26:47.930 ⇒ 00:27:00.179 Robert Tseng: I can always share more about… about that, but I think you’re… I think you’re… you’re doing… you’re doing good, have a good attitude overall, which I think is the most important, wherever you are, as long as you are able to, kind of.
245 00:27:00.760 ⇒ 00:27:09.199 Robert Tseng: keep learning how to grow, like, that’s, like… Nobody’s really going to… Kind of…
246 00:27:09.710 ⇒ 00:27:15.189 Robert Tseng: chart your path for you, so that’s the most important skill, to learn how to learn, yeah.
247 00:27:15.190 ⇒ 00:27:23.040 Amber Lin: I appreciate it, and I think a big part of last year, I was writing my reflections, like, it…
248 00:27:23.060 ⇒ 00:27:45.720 Amber Lin: it kind of contradicts what I just said earlier. I just feel like I wouldn’t go with the Chief of Staff route, because as a smaller company, there’s… everything we… like, if I were to go the Chief of Staff route, I would be doing everything, but then I wouldn’t really learn anything, because there’s so much admin stuff we need to do, and I think that’s why I was so much happier
249 00:27:45.750 ⇒ 00:27:49.500 Amber Lin: doing data analysis, because, like, I actually have
250 00:27:49.550 ⇒ 00:28:01.640 Amber Lin: focus time, and then I actually learned about the services. It’s crazy that throughout the 8 months that I was PMing, I learned only such surface level of what we did.
251 00:28:01.640 ⇒ 00:28:11.890 Amber Lin: And then after I did two months… a month and a half of data analysis, I’m like, oh, I see what… I understand what’s wrong, I understand what other.
252 00:28:11.890 ⇒ 00:28:12.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
253 00:28:12.250 ⇒ 00:28:16.830 Amber Lin: work, and it’s like, wow, it’s a very different type of work.
254 00:28:17.580 ⇒ 00:28:18.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
255 00:28:18.430 ⇒ 00:28:24.200 Amber Lin: Yeah. It must have been hard for you to transition to sales. This is so interesting.
256 00:28:24.720 ⇒ 00:28:33.200 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, sales is kind of… it’s not… it’s not that technically interesting. It’s a lot of gr… it’s a lot of just, like.
257 00:28:33.440 ⇒ 00:28:38.659 Robert Tseng: grindy, gritty, gritty work, but it’s… it’s fun in its own way. Yeah.
258 00:28:39.370 ⇒ 00:28:39.990 Amber Lin: Yeah.
259 00:28:40.500 ⇒ 00:28:45.330 Amber Lin: Oh, I look forward for you to come to LA. I feel like there’s a lot of stuff
260 00:28:45.490 ⇒ 00:28:51.750 Amber Lin: I… I want to talk about, but, like, it’s… like, talking online in 30 minutes is always very short.
261 00:28:51.920 ⇒ 00:28:57.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I’ve been trying to come at reporters, so I definitely will, will, will come. I’m soon.
262 00:28:57.210 ⇒ 00:29:00.040 Amber Lin: Yeah, is your family in LA, or in…
263 00:29:00.350 ⇒ 00:29:03.110 Amber Lin: Or just, this is just where you like to come?
264 00:29:03.670 ⇒ 00:29:06.840 Robert Tseng: Oh, well, I guess I come now because we have…
265 00:29:07.310 ⇒ 00:29:18.779 Robert Tseng: people there, I guess, so… and my network is still really LA-centric, so I don’t want to lose… lose those friendships, so I think coming back frequently is important to me.
266 00:29:18.780 ⇒ 00:29:29.049 Amber Lin: Yeah, I recently got, like, a personal CRM, because I keep forgetting to text people. It’s also called Play, so if you… if you want to look into that, it’s pretty interesting.
267 00:29:29.200 ⇒ 00:29:32.190 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay, that’s, that’s interesting.
268 00:29:32.190 ⇒ 00:29:36.020 Amber Lin: It’s like clay earth, or whatever, it helps remind…
269 00:29:36.020 ⇒ 00:29:37.540 Robert Tseng: It’s not the same clay.
270 00:29:37.540 ⇒ 00:29:43.170 Amber Lin: It’s not the same clay, but it’s so funny, it’s called the same thing. I don’t know if they’re the same company, but…
271 00:29:43.910 ⇒ 00:29:46.459 Robert Tseng: That’s kind of… that’s kind of crazy that…
272 00:29:46.460 ⇒ 00:29:48.490 Amber Lin: Yeah.
273 00:29:48.490 ⇒ 00:29:48.900 Robert Tseng: back.
274 00:29:49.120 ⇒ 00:29:53.289 Amber Lin: I guess they think about the same thing. Okay, I know you have a call later.
275 00:29:53.300 ⇒ 00:29:56.080 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Alright, I’ll talk to you later, yeah.
276 00:29:56.080 ⇒ 00:29:56.520 Amber Lin: Right.