Meeting Title: Brainforge x Bridgewater Project Introduction Date: 2025-12-30 Meeting participants: Alexander’s iPad, Clarence Stone
WEBVTT
1 00:02:09.330 ⇒ 00:02:11.649 Clarence Stone: Hey, sorry I’m late.
2 00:02:12.040 ⇒ 00:02:13.350 Alexander’s iPad: Hey, no worries, how are ya?
3 00:02:13.590 ⇒ 00:02:15.440 Clarence Stone: Great, great to meet you, Alex.
4 00:02:15.440 ⇒ 00:02:16.609 Alexander’s iPad: Hey, really nice to meet you.
5 00:02:17.840 ⇒ 00:02:23.740 Clarence Stone: So… Sorry, I’m getting a ping from you, Tom.
6 00:02:24.270 ⇒ 00:02:26.240 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, no worries. Tell him I say hi.
7 00:02:26.470 ⇒ 00:02:27.140 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
8 00:02:28.990 ⇒ 00:02:31.670 Clarence Stone: He said, what’s up to you as well.
9 00:02:31.670 ⇒ 00:02:32.720 Alexander’s iPad: There you go, what’s good?
10 00:02:32.720 ⇒ 00:02:54.189 Clarence Stone: Well, the general sentiment from that was, he wants to know how you can get plugged into Brainforge. I’m like, okay, well, we’ll talk about that. But Alex, I think I owe you an intro on my behalf first, and an explanation on why you’ve gotten a 64-page write-up to review, and all of that good stuff, so…
11 00:02:54.490 ⇒ 00:03:16.269 Clarence Stone: So, I’m Clarence. I came from Ernst & Young. Earlier this year, I had a AI product startup that was designed to create local AI environments. It got scooped up by a family-owned PE in Texas, and I ended up having nothing to do. So, I folded into Brainforge,
12 00:03:16.270 ⇒ 00:03:18.609 Clarence Stone: Kind of naturally, and…
13 00:03:18.610 ⇒ 00:03:27.019 Clarence Stone: I’ve been having conversations with UTom on, you know, how they can scale their current operations and figure out what’s next for the organization as a whole.
14 00:03:27.020 ⇒ 00:03:34.170 Clarence Stone: But prior to that, I was the product innovation leader for all of tech technology transformation at EY.
15 00:03:34.170 ⇒ 00:03:56.649 Clarence Stone: So, my job was to sling AI for the last, you know, two and a half years, and prior to that, try to make up some use cases for blockchain that no one ever really bought. And prior to that, you know, I came from a coding background where I was heavily into front-end UX design and products, so it’s an interesting pivot into consulting that kind of led me here.
16 00:03:56.650 ⇒ 00:03:58.150 Clarence Stone: Yeah, and
17 00:03:58.150 ⇒ 00:04:10.510 Clarence Stone: My goal here really is to help Brainforce set themselves up for the next cycle, and I think, you know, the backstory that I don’t think you got to hear that spawned this whole write-up was…
18 00:04:10.590 ⇒ 00:04:29.620 Clarence Stone: realizing after talking to everyone that people at Brainforge are already doing these things. They just don’t have the explicit directive that they can take action. So, like, one of the most, like, eye-opening conversations I had with one of the team members was, like.
19 00:04:29.730 ⇒ 00:04:40.489 Clarence Stone: He’s like, I get tickets, and I have questions on, like, how this could be an even bigger value driver. I just don’t know who to ask. So I just do what my ticket says.
20 00:04:41.060 ⇒ 00:04:43.919 Clarence Stone: you know, I’d crush it, I pick up the next one.
21 00:04:44.240 ⇒ 00:05:08.680 Clarence Stone: Right? I’m like, okay, but, like, here’s the thing. You are thinking the right thing, and I want you to chase that, and I want you to actually own that title, right? Let me tell you what you can do now that you have that instinct, right? You know, like, this person also is presenting to the client all the time, too, so has a really great instinct on, like, what they could possibly build. So, all of this was me just, like, documenting all the things that the team is
22 00:05:08.680 ⇒ 00:05:10.479 Clarence Stone: Kind of doing already.
23 00:05:10.480 ⇒ 00:05:16.249 Clarence Stone: Right? And just waiting for, like, you, Tom, or Robert to get explicit, like, instructions on doing.
24 00:05:16.460 ⇒ 00:05:33.620 Clarence Stone: And saying, no, no, no, no, you guys knew what to do all along, now you own it, now I’d like to be able to pay you for it and actually measure it, right? And it’s a little bit different to them, I guess, like, tactically, because, you know, everything used to just funnel up into Robert Mutom.
25 00:05:33.620 ⇒ 00:05:38.229 Clarence Stone: And, like, now we’re saying, like, hey, solve it amongst yourselves first, come up with, like.
26 00:05:38.450 ⇒ 00:05:45.679 Clarence Stone: a viable plan, or a couple different options from what you know, and then we’ll discuss that solution together. So.
27 00:05:45.900 ⇒ 00:05:55.309 Clarence Stone: really, it’s just enabling this team to actually activate what they’ve already been doing, instead of just following instructions. So that’s the inspiration behind that entire write-up.
28 00:05:55.570 ⇒ 00:05:58.699 Clarence Stone: No, that’s great. Over to you. Would love to learn more about you two.
29 00:05:58.700 ⇒ 00:06:15.710 Alexander’s iPad: Sure, appreciate that. But, yeah, enabling them to just make… or iterate quickly and make these decisions that they already know the answers to is gonna just clear so many blockers for them and just make stuff happen quicker. It’s great. Yeah. But yeah, it’s great to meet you, Clarence. I heard about you for a couple months now, so it’s good to finally meet you.
30 00:06:15.710 ⇒ 00:06:21.029 Alexander’s iPad: I currently work at… I’m a technical project manager at Bridgewater, a hedge fund.
31 00:06:21.030 ⇒ 00:06:41.580 Alexander’s iPad: I’m working in their… within tech, I work with, in their investment research, department. We’re working on, platforms and utilizing a lot of AI now to build out the, technology, the platforms, the AI search, mostly, for, where investors and investment engineers can hypothesize their investment decisions before they implement them.
32 00:06:41.580 ⇒ 00:06:45.310 Alexander’s iPad: And… and so we work on that now. So I’ve been here for about 2 years now.
33 00:06:45.310 ⇒ 00:06:57.089 Alexander’s iPad: I mostly come from a startup background, building out, like, program and project management, offices and systems, for startups in SaaS, in consulting, in,
34 00:06:57.130 ⇒ 00:07:07.529 Alexander’s iPad: like, professional services. I did it for, like, a data analytics and consulting firm at one of my startups, so mostly with startup background, but made a pivot to Bridgewater when an opportunity came up.
35 00:07:08.010 ⇒ 00:07:10.310 Clarence Stone: Cool. How are you liking so far, Alex?
36 00:07:10.450 ⇒ 00:07:12.990 Alexander’s iPad: Bridgewater’s okay. Bridgewater has its quirks, for sure.
37 00:07:13.550 ⇒ 00:07:14.680 Alexander’s iPad: Fair days and spare days.
38 00:07:14.870 ⇒ 00:07:22.179 Clarence Stone: Yeah. It’s so interesting that you mention the investor insights with AI.
39 00:07:22.680 ⇒ 00:07:24.510 Clarence Stone: It is the…
40 00:07:24.640 ⇒ 00:07:42.579 Clarence Stone: mythical dragon that I’ve tried to chase as well over at EY, doing, you know, tax technology transformation. Our PE clients always ask for those things, and interestingly, tax information is the basis that empowers a lot of those decision-making factors that aren’t really plugged in, directly right now.
41 00:07:42.860 ⇒ 00:07:45.460 Clarence Stone: So, it’s an interesting challenge, and…
42 00:07:45.570 ⇒ 00:07:49.559 Clarence Stone: It’s a good background to have, because there’s so much,
43 00:07:50.170 ⇒ 00:08:09.329 Clarence Stone: I like to… I like to call it inefficiencies in the way structures are done right now. There is a lack of awareness on how to maximize your opportunities, especially with the new tax law or things like BEPS. So, yeah, like, I look at these problems from a financial angle that
44 00:08:09.420 ⇒ 00:08:16.370 Clarence Stone: you know, typically, there’s no platforms that do that. I think the best one is ENTRE, that goes from, like, legal.
45 00:08:16.370 ⇒ 00:08:17.030 Alexander’s iPad: -
46 00:08:17.650 ⇒ 00:08:18.220 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
47 00:08:19.480 ⇒ 00:08:22.190 Clarence Stone: Yeah, it’s cool stuff. It’s cool technology, and, you know.
48 00:08:22.190 ⇒ 00:08:37.169 Alexander’s iPad: Birdwater has a lot of proprietary data, and they source a ton of data, and they have their own proprietary, like, models, and, like, you know, some of the technology built in-house, so it’s been fun, some fun stuff to play around and learn about as we’re, like, growing in that space.
49 00:08:37.669 ⇒ 00:08:45.159 Clarence Stone: Yeah, and I’m also seeing this massive gap between, like, if you look at the PE top 100 or top 200, like.
50 00:08:45.479 ⇒ 00:08:51.649 Clarence Stone: The top 30 to 50 are just kind of running away and crushing it on their own, versus the rest.
51 00:08:51.649 ⇒ 00:09:07.109 Clarence Stone: Like, you’ve got, you know, even if you’re a top 100 player, if you’re not in that top cut, man, like, the difference is massive. I’m talking, like, we’ve got, like, the craziest thing, Capital Group, actually has a, like.
52 00:09:07.479 ⇒ 00:09:15.889 Clarence Stone: like, 12-acre, 6-colo data center here in San Antonio, and they built that out, like, 6 years ahead of, like, all of this AI stuff happening, and now.
53 00:09:15.890 ⇒ 00:09:16.640 Alexander’s iPad: other room.
54 00:09:16.640 ⇒ 00:09:25.820 Clarence Stone: all of their own models, all of their own stacks, like, they don’t need consulting, they’re doing all of it on their own, versus, you know, the rest of them. So, it’s very interesting to see the difference.
55 00:09:25.820 ⇒ 00:09:27.080 Alexander’s iPad: Good foresight.
56 00:09:27.300 ⇒ 00:09:29.689 Clarence Stone: Yeah. Way to read the market, right?
57 00:09:29.690 ⇒ 00:09:30.450 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
58 00:09:30.450 ⇒ 00:09:31.160 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
59 00:09:32.130 ⇒ 00:09:45.880 Clarence Stone: So, I guess, like, back to the topic, would love your thoughts on the read, now with the additional context. Yeah, what are your thoughts? Like, what’s your, what’s your take? Love to hear, you know, from your side.
60 00:09:45.880 ⇒ 00:09:50.049 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, I mean, I think it gives a lot of clarity, or…
61 00:09:50.180 ⇒ 00:10:00.880 Alexander’s iPad: or it evokes a lot of conversations that I think a lot of the people that currently work at Brainforge didn’t have, like you were talking about. I think… I worked a lot with… so I’ve been working with them since May.
62 00:10:00.880 ⇒ 00:10:15.919 Alexander’s iPad: I worked a lot with them in the, like, the summer and the fall, and then I haven’t worked so much with them in the fourth quarter. But, so when I was working with Amber, and, I worked with, what was it, some guy that… two people that aren’t even there anymore.
63 00:10:15.920 ⇒ 00:10:32.510 Alexander’s iPad: But, yeah, that was a big question I’d get from Amber, is like, where can I go from here? Like, you know, what are the certifications that I can get? Because she, this was her first project management job, and so I was kind of mentoring her in the beginning, and, like, you know, well, what are the certifications out there? What can I do, or how does this role work with other people?
64 00:10:32.510 ⇒ 00:10:38.219 Alexander’s iPad: or, like, other cross-functional teams, or, like, you know, what questions should I be asking, or how does this work with, like.
65 00:10:38.220 ⇒ 00:10:48.620 Alexander’s iPad: you know, the… kind of like a customer service manager I know mentions in there, like, another name for the role, but… so I think it gives a lot of clarity to people that are coming in here, or people that have been here that they don’t have.
66 00:10:50.220 ⇒ 00:11:08.189 Alexander’s iPad: I’ll be interested to see, like, what the training is of it, because of course it’s great to put this document together, but, like, how are we… how… what’s… what’s the plan for, like, disseminating that information to everybody, make sure they’re holding it right, and training it? I think you mentioned something for, like, Monday, I don’t know if that’s for this coming Monday or something. Are you trying to… is there, like, a training session or, like, intro session or something?
67 00:11:08.190 ⇒ 00:11:23.889 Clarence Stone: coming Monday is gonna be a Q&A for everything that’s in the write-up, and the presentation, which I haven’t finished, is the meeting cadence that we’re gonna introduce. And… and here’s the… here’s the difficult part with, like, releasing this information is, like, meeting cadence
68 00:11:23.890 ⇒ 00:11:42.690 Clarence Stone: as written today is the conditional, you know, release of this, where we’re going to have more check-ins than we want to at the end. So the strategic write-up doesn’t always match the tactical, because we’re trying to chase that write-up that you read, versus, like, what’s happening on the tactical day-to-day, right? So,
69 00:11:42.690 ⇒ 00:11:50.230 Clarence Stone: Yeah, the meeting stack is going to be a modified version of daily stand-up, where every single one of the three leaders have to talk.
70 00:11:50.700 ⇒ 00:12:00.870 Clarence Stone: And that’s in the new way to do stand-ups tab. And then, there’s gonna be individual check-ins for each one of those roles. So,
71 00:12:01.140 ⇒ 00:12:15.530 Clarence Stone: like, all the SLs will roll up to Utam or Sam to do the workshops. I’ll pick up the CSO and share the EP piece with Robert. So they’ll have, like.
72 00:12:16.230 ⇒ 00:12:20.070 Clarence Stone: Really structured weekly sessions just for their focus.
73 00:12:20.360 ⇒ 00:12:26.250 Clarence Stone: And I’ve also prescribed, like, client… Team meeting time.
74 00:12:26.250 ⇒ 00:12:51.149 Clarence Stone: like, for them to update their work products and just explicitly, you know, use that time to connect with each other. But I don’t want to be able to be forcing these kinds of things. Like, a project team should manage their own timelines. They should be managing their own, you know, updates to work products. Like, naturally, I want this stuff to be less structured and then driven by the leaders that are assigned to each of the teams, so…
75 00:12:51.290 ⇒ 00:12:53.590 Clarence Stone: Yeah, it’s heavily structured now.
76 00:12:53.650 ⇒ 00:13:11.900 Clarence Stone: And Monday, we’re just gonna, you know, kind of write all that out, saying, hey, I’ve read this, I’ve, you know, had a chance to ask Q&A, but, you know, I can always reach out to X, Y, and Z people. I understand my new role, I understand the new comp structure that I have now, because of this new role, and how I’m gonna be measured.
77 00:13:12.080 ⇒ 00:13:28.180 Clarence Stone: And it really starts there, and I’m going to create a timeline. Within the first week, I need every single client team to make sure that they finish their project requirements document, their Gantt chart, and everything’s in the right place for each, Slack and each Notion.
78 00:13:28.360 ⇒ 00:13:40.889 Clarence Stone: And that will be the starting period, and we have a two-week cutoff on making sure all those work products are good, so I’m going to be revising all of them, and that will be a nice, natural reset to kind of start
79 00:13:41.170 ⇒ 00:13:44.889 Clarence Stone: Doing the daily stand-ups in the new format, now that everyone knows their role.
80 00:13:45.570 ⇒ 00:13:50.229 Alexander’s iPad: So, like, what’s the major delta between, like, this formation and what they’re doing now?
81 00:13:50.680 ⇒ 00:13:53.590 Clarence Stone: So, here’s the crazy part, Alex. Nothing.
82 00:13:53.590 ⇒ 00:13:54.280 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
83 00:13:54.580 ⇒ 00:14:00.740 Clarence Stone: Nothing. Except for, one, there’s complete disorder in where they’re storing their work products.
84 00:14:01.370 ⇒ 00:14:14.529 Clarence Stone: Right? So, like, across, like, different teams, like, I just go, hey, Magic Spoon team, like, where did you put your presentation? Oh, it’s in the, you know, it’s in the Google Drive. Okay, Lilo team, where’s yours?
85 00:14:14.530 ⇒ 00:14:21.780 Clarence Stone: oh, we actually built it on cursor. I’m like, okay, it’s all good, but you need to put it in one place, right?
86 00:14:21.780 ⇒ 00:14:28.260 Clarence Stone: So… and they’re also driving their own client communications. They’ve already been doing that as a team. Like.
87 00:14:28.850 ⇒ 00:14:40.230 Clarence Stone: Honestly, there’s nothing different, except that we’re gonna track it and actually say, this is your responsibility to do now, instead of, you know, just expecting somebody to do it at some point.
88 00:14:41.810 ⇒ 00:14:42.979 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, that’s great.
89 00:14:43.500 ⇒ 00:14:46.819 Alexander’s iPad: Just better definition, and holding them accountable to it, and…
90 00:14:47.220 ⇒ 00:14:51.590 Alexander’s iPad: Just make sure everybody’s clear on… what the expectations are.
91 00:14:51.670 ⇒ 00:14:59.470 Clarence Stone: Yeah. Yeah, so… so that’s… that’s sort of, like, the approach diving into things, but, yeah, I…
92 00:14:59.660 ⇒ 00:15:07.559 Clarence Stone: I don’t know, any other thoughts? Any feedback? Like, you know, UTOM’s goal with me reaching out to you was to get your, you know, like, I guess.
93 00:15:08.120 ⇒ 00:15:20.190 Clarence Stone: you’ve… you understand the context of Brain Forge, but also you’re kind of looking at this document with fresh eyes without, you know, having gone through the other cycle of meetings related to it. So, you know, your take is really valuable.
94 00:15:20.940 ⇒ 00:15:26.469 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, I gave some… I gave a couple comments, I saw you… you gave some back.
95 00:15:26.470 ⇒ 00:15:30.779 Clarence Stone: And I give you your acronym library in, like, 2 seconds. I love AI, man.
96 00:15:30.780 ⇒ 00:15:48.300 Alexander’s iPad: Gotta love it. Do… no, I think if, like, as long as people are clear on their… what their new titles are, new roles are, and what those responsibilities are, I did, like, you know, the KPI things, I saw your comment on it, like, it wasn’t clear to me on a couple of those of, how to actually achieve them.
97 00:15:48.300 ⇒ 00:15:57.769 Clarence Stone: I had a really long conversation with Utam on that, like, earlier this week, and I was like, listen, man, I agree with you, these are things we should track.
98 00:15:57.890 ⇒ 00:16:05.990 Clarence Stone: But if we are spending all our time tracking these things, right, and you want to do a quarterly review cycle, like.
99 00:16:06.200 ⇒ 00:16:21.269 Clarence Stone: whoever’s assigned to this is probably just gonna start every quarter and have to measure everything over and over again. There’s a point where this is just ineffective because you’re spending so much time. So let’s really reduce everything and talk about, like, the top-line metrics that we can measure immediately.
100 00:16:21.270 ⇒ 00:16:27.719 Clarence Stone: Right? And then expand these dashboards and capabilities so that we can track the rest of the metrics as things come along.
101 00:16:27.720 ⇒ 00:16:28.970 Clarence Stone: And,
102 00:16:29.090 ⇒ 00:16:38.739 Clarence Stone: And it’s really simple for client success owner, like, I want to make sure you’re reaching out to the client every day, and you’re doing a weekly presentation. Every, you know.
103 00:16:38.740 ⇒ 00:17:01.939 Clarence Stone: relationship benefit comes from that. You get a sense of how your client’s doing by doing these things, right? You’re hitting your requirements and goals by doing these things, and if you can just be 100% on that, like, we’ll build up on everything else, right? So, same thing for the planner. We need to make sure that everything is where it should be, and it’s auditable. So, that’s the metric.
104 00:17:01.940 ⇒ 00:17:19.369 Clarence Stone: Right? And for the service leader, apparently, UTAM’s already been tracking this metric. It’s about, like, ticket throughput compared to, bugs that go into linear, so that’s a direct linear report, and we’re just gonna say, hey, we’re looking at quality of the product, right?
105 00:17:19.380 ⇒ 00:17:24.670 Clarence Stone: And nothing else for this world, for now, right? When you accomplish that, you’re gonna get a sense of, like.
106 00:17:24.670 ⇒ 00:17:42.080 Clarence Stone: you know, who’s taking too long to do tickets, who needs more mentorship, who’s got excellence in certain things, and you’ll be able to do the rest of, you know, your KPIs pretty well. So, we’re gonna dive into Q1 just measuring one metric, but the long-term goal is to be able to measure on a couple different factors.
107 00:17:43.150 ⇒ 00:17:50.820 Alexander’s iPad: Is there anybody that’s going into this that has been identified that, like, isn’t at the bar yet? Do we have that signal yet?
108 00:17:51.310 ⇒ 00:17:59.270 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so we had some… some rough conversations about that. It’s not a matter of…
109 00:18:00.770 ⇒ 00:18:09.319 Clarence Stone: I don’t know, like, there’s been some back and forth, right? Like, for example, like, I definitely see in Demi a capability to be a really great
110 00:18:09.410 ⇒ 00:18:23.760 Clarence Stone: customer success owner. It’s a matter of whether he wants to do it, it’s a matter of whether, you know, this is, you know, something that he’s gonna put his time into, but, like, just by naturally talking to him, I’m like, hey, you understand.
111 00:18:24.000 ⇒ 00:18:40.909 Clarence Stone: Right? You understand what your client wants, and, you know, if you just have that, and you’re kind of working towards their best interest, like, you’ll be great, right? So there’s onesie-twosies like that, and then there’s, like, just brand new people like Pranav and Casey that just haven’t had
112 00:18:41.060 ⇒ 00:18:52.200 Clarence Stone: like, full active time in, you know, at Brainforge going through project cycles, so they’re just unknowns because they’re unknown, to the organization, so…
113 00:18:53.310 ⇒ 00:19:02.250 Clarence Stone: I, you know, there’s… there’s really nothing we can do about that piece, but provide, you know, better, closer, you know, guidance, for them.
114 00:19:02.390 ⇒ 00:19:07.969 Clarence Stone: I don’t know what you think, but I… yeah, I think initially that’s really the only question marks.
115 00:19:07.970 ⇒ 00:19:10.350 Alexander’s iPad: Okay, yeah, I haven’t been close enough to it lately.
116 00:19:10.450 ⇒ 00:19:11.430 Alexander’s iPad: to…
117 00:19:11.620 ⇒ 00:19:26.130 Alexander’s iPad: have a judgment on that, but I was just curious if, like, you’re gonna implement these things, great. Is there anything, like, going into this that you have, like, a sense that maybe you’re gonna have to spend more time with some people, or this might not be a fit for somebody that’s currently at the company? But it sounds like it’s not…
118 00:19:26.330 ⇒ 00:19:27.280 Alexander’s iPad: that…
119 00:19:27.780 ⇒ 00:19:34.949 Alexander’s iPad: Bad, and there’s some people that might not be complete fits, but there’s… you’re at a point where maybe they can… we can get them there.
120 00:19:35.330 ⇒ 00:19:45.240 Clarence Stone: Yeah, exactly. We’re at a point where we can get people there, and I, like, at the very least, I’ll say, UTOM’s done a great job of, like, curating really talented people.
121 00:19:45.240 ⇒ 00:19:45.840 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
122 00:19:45.990 ⇒ 00:19:51.699 Clarence Stone: It’s creating a framework and a structure to get the most out of them that we’re trying to figure out.
123 00:19:52.320 ⇒ 00:19:57.640 Clarence Stone: The… Other thing, though, is… like…
124 00:19:58.390 ⇒ 00:20:08.270 Clarence Stone: And maybe, like, I’d love your feedback on this, like, I come from organizations that are more heavily Type A. This audience just does not talk, right?
125 00:20:08.270 ⇒ 00:20:08.970 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
126 00:20:08.970 ⇒ 00:20:13.970 Clarence Stone: the crazy part is, if I one-on-one with them, they’ll say, like, I wish there was more, like.
127 00:20:14.110 ⇒ 00:20:28.750 Clarence Stone: you know, team meetings and conversations, because, like, I got comments like, I wouldn’t know who was in this company unless, you know, I listened to stand-up and met somebody new that’s capable of, you know, fixing a problem I had on my project.
128 00:20:28.910 ⇒ 00:20:29.530 Alexander’s iPad: I was like…
129 00:20:29.680 ⇒ 00:20:34.080 Clarence Stone: okay, so I’m gonna create an environment for you now where you have to talk to people.
130 00:20:34.370 ⇒ 00:20:42.120 Clarence Stone: Like, the three people on this, like, on any given project that are assigned these leadership roles have to talk, almost every day.
131 00:20:42.760 ⇒ 00:20:46.570 Clarence Stone: Now, I’m worried, will you guys actually do it? Right?
132 00:20:46.570 ⇒ 00:20:47.350 Alexander’s iPad: That’s fair.
133 00:20:47.740 ⇒ 00:20:59.670 Clarence Stone: When I present these things, it’s… it’s a pretty quiet room, Alex, and I, like, I don’t know what your experience was like, and I’d love your take on that, because to me, that’s my only worry with this.
134 00:20:59.670 ⇒ 00:21:10.819 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, I’ve seen them say that, but I haven’t… it kind of sounds like you see your similar experience. I’ve seen them say, like, oh, I want to meet more often, or I don’t know, you know, I don’t know who works here, kind of thing, but also, like, when you give them the opportunity, you don’t think they take it.
135 00:21:11.730 ⇒ 00:21:30.940 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, because I think she… I think that… I forgot the operations consultant, but I think she did, like, the coffee chat thing on Slack, and I’m curious if that’s, like, evoked anything, or just some… I know, like, I know Utam’s tried with some of the, like, you know, team meetings and things, and, you know, icebreakers and stuff. I don’t know if it’s actually doing anything, though.
136 00:21:31.720 ⇒ 00:21:41.049 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I went to their first Friday meeting. That was pretty cool. There was, like, fun activities, people actually, like, voted and interacted, but I haven’t seen any other, like.
137 00:21:41.590 ⇒ 00:21:47.159 Clarence Stone: one-on-one social things that happen outside of that, and I think that’s my main concern. It’s like.
138 00:21:47.370 ⇒ 00:21:55.020 Clarence Stone: People seem to hold on to their problem sets way too long here, and… Like…
139 00:21:56.140 ⇒ 00:22:04.500 Clarence Stone: you know, first week, somebody was really struggling with finding some viable analytics that would prove ROI for their client.
140 00:22:04.750 ⇒ 00:22:09.800 Clarence Stone: And I, you know, they mentioned that on stand-up, and I was like, reach out to me, I’ll help you.
141 00:22:10.060 ⇒ 00:22:11.719 Clarence Stone: They waited 4 days.
142 00:22:12.210 ⇒ 00:22:13.040 Alexander’s iPad: Hmm…
143 00:22:13.730 ⇒ 00:22:18.390 Clarence Stone: Right? And we were just… we solved it in 15 minutes, and I was like, listen, man, you can’t wait that long.
144 00:22:19.650 ⇒ 00:22:24.469 Clarence Stone: Right? Oh, but, like, you know, it was the only opening you had on your calendar. I’m like, no, no.
145 00:22:24.780 ⇒ 00:22:28.209 Clarence Stone: For a problem like this, where you’re not pushing work through.
146 00:22:28.340 ⇒ 00:22:35.090 Clarence Stone: Like, you need to ping me and say, we gotta make time for this. You have to understand the importance of what’s going on, right? So…
147 00:22:35.310 ⇒ 00:22:42.089 Clarence Stone: It’s… I think it’s, like, kind of cultivating that gut instinct that… that we need to do, for this next quarter.
148 00:22:42.340 ⇒ 00:22:55.579 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, and I know you talk about, like, the mannerisms and, like, the gut stuff in the documentation. Do you think it’s just, like, historically they’ve worked at places where they haven’t been, like, emboldened to, you know, speak up on these things? Like, where do you think the root cause of, like, why people are just, like, not…
149 00:22:55.740 ⇒ 00:22:56.990 Alexander’s iPad: Just voicing it.
150 00:22:57.450 ⇒ 00:22:58.970 Alexander’s iPad: Have you figured that out yet?
151 00:22:58.970 ⇒ 00:23:01.939 Clarence Stone: I haven’t, man, I have no idea. It’s like…
152 00:23:03.270 ⇒ 00:23:08.080 Clarence Stone: no one gets in trouble at this company, I don’t see why you would be afraid of talking, right?
153 00:23:08.080 ⇒ 00:23:08.550 Alexander’s iPad: Right.
154 00:23:09.710 ⇒ 00:23:21.820 Clarence Stone: nobody gets called out, like, it, you know, like, I’ve seen a few bad instances where, like, Tom and Robert will just peel them off into a, you know, different meeting and resolve it, like…
155 00:23:22.010 ⇒ 00:23:29.959 Clarence Stone: I would say, like, all things considered, an incredibly, you know, psychologically safe company to voice your opinion.
156 00:23:30.580 ⇒ 00:23:32.979 Clarence Stone: So, yeah, I don’t know, I don’t know.
157 00:23:33.580 ⇒ 00:23:53.039 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, because I think the things that you talk about here that are, like, the root cause of things that could really help the company grow are the, you know, voicing the things, or just solving issues, or just cutting through to get stuff done, and, like, the dependency on the founders, because I’ve seen that as, like, a big bottleneck. I think if we can, like, cut through to those things, and just make sure people are emboldened to, you know.
158 00:23:53.570 ⇒ 00:24:12.850 Alexander’s iPad: solve issues on their own, or with that group, if when they see it, instead of just, like, waiting for a couple days, or talking to us, feel like they have to get permission from somebody, and just, like, you know… and ultimately, it’s probably been the case up until this point, is just, like, the founders, and just, like, freeing up their time to just, like, sell stuff, and just, like, crush it on their own, and help expand the business.
159 00:24:12.850 ⇒ 00:24:14.749 Alexander’s iPad: I mean, that’s a slam dunk here.
160 00:24:16.290 ⇒ 00:24:16.900 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
161 00:24:17.040 ⇒ 00:24:22.839 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so I… that’s… that’s what I want to write in that commitment letter that’s going to go out with their new,
162 00:24:23.250 ⇒ 00:24:28.150 Clarence Stone: Like, salaries, or, or, you know, new,
163 00:24:28.280 ⇒ 00:24:32.520 Clarence Stone: Hourly schedules, whatever, you know, each of them decide, but, like.
164 00:24:32.760 ⇒ 00:24:46.789 Clarence Stone: it would feel good to say, hey, yeah, I’m, like, not gonna hold back if there’s a question that stops, you know, client quality. I’m gonna meet up with the other people on my team to come up with viable solutions and then present it immediately, right? Like…
165 00:24:46.890 ⇒ 00:24:50.619 Clarence Stone: after decisions are made, I’ll disagree and commit. I, like.
166 00:24:50.760 ⇒ 00:24:59.249 Clarence Stone: I… I think those are, like, the top three things that I wrote out here, but if there’s any, you know, other great one-liners, like, I would love to… to get that from you.
167 00:24:59.250 ⇒ 00:25:17.329 Alexander’s iPad: Well, you could… you could steal from Bridgewater, it’s fine, like, the radical transparency. I mean, that’s one thing they do do really well there, is just, like, if something’s on your mind, say it. If you have feedback, it’s make… creating an environment that’s open for feedback, and, like, making sure people are… don’t take it… like, building an environment where people don’t take it personally, that we’re all just here to solve problems, and…
168 00:25:17.350 ⇒ 00:25:32.769 Alexander’s iPad: you know, and help our clients, and so if you have an invoke an environment… I mean, granted, there are things that don’t go great at Bridgewater, but one thing I think that I would adopt moving forward is just, like, is that… is just, like, you know, enforcing to them that, you know, feedback is okay, and, like, you’re not gonna be…
169 00:25:32.800 ⇒ 00:25:38.440 Alexander’s iPad: You know, there may be constructive feedback in there, but ultimately, it’s not a personal thing, it’s to help everybody improve.
170 00:25:38.620 ⇒ 00:25:43.239 Alexander’s iPad: And so if they feel emboldened, so if they… if we have a transparent environment, it’s like.
171 00:25:43.360 ⇒ 00:25:49.410 Alexander’s iPad: you know, oh, I’m blocked by this, or, you know, oh, I need… I need your help on this. That helps everybody.
172 00:25:49.420 ⇒ 00:25:50.729 Clarence Stone: And I think they could…
173 00:25:50.730 ⇒ 00:25:52.320 Alexander’s iPad: That could help them alone.
174 00:25:53.410 ⇒ 00:26:06.600 Clarence Stone: That’s a great point. I… it sounded like I was complaining, but there was one call where I was just like, if y’all don’t share with me where you’re stuck, I don’t know how to create a process or standardization to help you.
175 00:26:07.580 ⇒ 00:26:17.049 Clarence Stone: And that’s really where I’m stuck here. Like, I need you guys to clearly articulate what’s happening that’s causing difficulties in certain, you know.
176 00:26:17.160 ⇒ 00:26:19.170 Clarence Stone: projects.
177 00:26:19.350 ⇒ 00:26:30.030 Clarence Stone: and always left with that empty, silent, like, room as well. So that’s the one issue that I’ve kind of been worried about. But aside from that, I think, you know, like.
178 00:26:30.260 ⇒ 00:26:31.870 Clarence Stone: Capability-wise.
179 00:26:32.050 ⇒ 00:26:35.989 Clarence Stone: Like, for the most part, they’re all capable of doing this.
180 00:26:36.320 ⇒ 00:26:49.460 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, I think that… I think technically that’s true. I’ve seen some gaps in… when I was working more with the project managers that we could work with, but I… I… whatever… a forcing function to give that feedback would be helpful, whether it’s just, like.
181 00:26:49.620 ⇒ 00:27:00.670 Alexander’s iPad: you know, a weekly, like, you need to give a feedback thing, you can make it anonymous if you want to initially, or something, just like, you have to fill this out. Just, like, I don’t know, there has to be some sort of forcing function if there’s…
182 00:27:00.930 ⇒ 00:27:02.829 Alexander’s iPad: If naturally, they’re not doing it.
183 00:27:05.840 ⇒ 00:27:06.430 Clarence Stone: Yup.
184 00:27:06.570 ⇒ 00:27:11.329 Clarence Stone: That makes sense. Yeah, that’s great feedback. We should definitely do some sort of survey.
185 00:27:12.690 ⇒ 00:27:15.689 Clarence Stone: on the ops team to do that, yeah,
186 00:27:16.860 ⇒ 00:27:21.739 Clarence Stone: Yeah, that’s sort of my take, man. That’s what I’m in the middle of doing right now.
187 00:27:21.740 ⇒ 00:27:25.049 Alexander’s iPad: Alright, so you’ve been doing this for a couple weeks now, or a couple months?
188 00:27:25.050 ⇒ 00:27:27.970 Clarence Stone: It’s been… two and a half weeks.
189 00:27:27.970 ⇒ 00:27:28.710 Alexander’s iPad: Cool.
190 00:27:28.840 ⇒ 00:27:29.420 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
191 00:27:29.420 ⇒ 00:27:31.539 Alexander’s iPad: Are you, are you full-time, or you’re just consulting?
192 00:27:31.540 ⇒ 00:27:33.560 Clarence Stone: No, no, I still have other clients.
193 00:27:33.560 ⇒ 00:27:34.529 Alexander’s iPad: Good, that’s awesome.
194 00:27:34.580 ⇒ 00:27:38.590 Clarence Stone: It’s like the… The desk of laptops?
195 00:27:38.770 ⇒ 00:27:39.090 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
196 00:27:39.090 ⇒ 00:27:45.389 Clarence Stone: It’s like a bunch… everyone else’s laptop. And I just hop back and forth,
197 00:27:45.390 ⇒ 00:28:03.209 Clarence Stone: But I, you know, I want to see if they’ll land on, you know, good, strong footing here and help guide them so that, you know, I’d ideally like to just bring all my client base over and not have to manage back of office on my own. So I’ve told you, Tom, like, that’s my intention in the long run.
198 00:28:03.210 ⇒ 00:28:04.070 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, hell yeah.
199 00:28:04.670 ⇒ 00:28:07.540 Alexander’s iPad: So cool, how can I help in this new world?
200 00:28:07.960 ⇒ 00:28:12.279 Clarence Stone: Well, maybe keep this in the back of your mind.
201 00:28:12.790 ⇒ 00:28:21.299 Clarence Stone: or tell me immediately if it sounds interesting to you. One of the things that I told Utam is there needs to be
202 00:28:21.400 ⇒ 00:28:24.879 Clarence Stone: Really experienced leaders in place to help with
203 00:28:25.000 ⇒ 00:28:34.890 Clarence Stone: like, actually directly mentoring this group, because they are going to be defined as, you know, your senior leaders as the company matures. So…
204 00:28:35.240 ⇒ 00:28:38.839 Clarence Stone: they’re… they’re CSOs and EPs, but I think, you know.
205 00:28:39.010 ⇒ 00:28:47.610 Clarence Stone: pretty immediate hiring need is to have a head of customer success, and a head of engagement planning. And if
206 00:28:48.040 ⇒ 00:29:01.230 Clarence Stone: you know, both or either of those things, like, seem interesting to you in this, like, structure that I’ve created here, we should talk more and, like, construct, you know, that role, and bring it up to UTAM for approval.
207 00:29:02.720 ⇒ 00:29:03.390 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah.
208 00:29:03.520 ⇒ 00:29:09.690 Clarence Stone: I mean, you get to build an empire here, it’s kind of cool, but it comes with its own challenges, right?
209 00:29:09.690 ⇒ 00:29:10.410 Alexander’s iPad: Sure.
210 00:29:10.500 ⇒ 00:29:29.029 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, I saw that, like, I saw… I don’t know if that feeds in, I saw on the, the pay… your documents something about, like, a head of delivery or something, if that feeds into that, or is a different role, but, yeah, I… I told you, Tom, I’m kind of interested in the spring to leave Bridgewater, so I think if we, that sounds interesting, and we could take a couple months just as, like.
211 00:29:29.030 ⇒ 00:29:33.150 Alexander’s iPad: hash it out, or, you know, develop that. I would love to do that.
212 00:29:33.490 ⇒ 00:29:39.579 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, so, the goal of this, you know, new leader would be to
213 00:29:40.210 ⇒ 00:29:50.799 Clarence Stone: one, like, there needs to be someone who’s a strong enough mentor on a day-to-day basis to help these customer success owners identify
214 00:29:51.370 ⇒ 00:29:54.350 Clarence Stone: like, client language for opportunities.
215 00:29:54.350 ⇒ 00:30:15.340 Clarence Stone: Because I know it’s happening all the time. When you get, you know, a response for how your presentation went, or you get a ping back when you send an interesting article, you’re always picking up clues on what the customer’s gonna need next, right? So, as an immediate development for these CSOs, I want them to grow their client base and expand as many services as they can on their existing projects.
216 00:30:15.670 ⇒ 00:30:26.160 Clarence Stone: And then, you know, like, this… whoever this new role is, like, should start to see trends and patterns of services across all the projects, and start saying, okay.
217 00:30:26.190 ⇒ 00:30:43.890 Clarence Stone: Let’s actually standardize this and start selling it to everyone else, right? And a great example is, Martech, right? They created a great Martech dashboard and solution with a bunch of really great ROIs for one client, and now Robert’s just going back to every single client and presenting that, right? But…
218 00:30:43.890 ⇒ 00:30:56.299 Clarence Stone: there has to be someone who’s looking at those things and saying, hey, actually, what you just built for Lilo needs to be scaled across Magic Spoon, across Element. All the CSOs come here, let me show you what, you know.
219 00:30:56.520 ⇒ 00:31:05.300 Clarence Stone: Mike or Jack or whoever did, like, here’s what was built, here’s what we’re gonna standardize, go present it to your client.
220 00:31:05.400 ⇒ 00:31:08.000 Clarence Stone: go win that, right?
221 00:31:08.320 ⇒ 00:31:25.250 Clarence Stone: So, it’s sort of like also identifying these, you know, product verticals that we can just go to the market and absolutely dominate and, you know, corner the market on. I think, strategically, that would be what this, you know, head of CSO would do on the, like, markets-facing side, on top of the mentorship.
222 00:31:25.350 ⇒ 00:31:28.339 Clarence Stone: On managing, you know, project delivery and throughput.
223 00:31:29.770 ⇒ 00:31:31.500 Alexander’s iPad: Yeah, very cool. That sounds interesting.
224 00:31:33.370 ⇒ 00:31:45.910 Clarence Stone: So, yeah, I mean, if you want to set up time for us to continue to talk about it, or… I don’t know, I haven’t thought too much about it yet, except, you know, I created that, progression job tree because, funny enough.
225 00:31:46.320 ⇒ 00:32:10.750 Clarence Stone: Brainforge team immediately started saying, so what happens after? Am I stuck after I pick this leadership role? Like, can I move laterally? Like, where’s my growth opportunity beyond that? I’m like, alright, well, I’ll put something together, but, like, realistically, none of these roles are actually there until you can perform at your role. Like, normally I don’t want to share any of that, but hey, you want a line of sight on how much career growth there is here? It’s almost frickin’ infinite.
226 00:32:10.750 ⇒ 00:32:19.209 Clarence Stone: Like, we just need to continue this engine, right? Build it up, continue to get more sales, win larger pieces of work, and all of these roles will be open for you guys.
227 00:32:19.680 ⇒ 00:32:20.410 Alexander’s iPad: Absolutely.
228 00:32:20.410 ⇒ 00:32:22.479 Clarence Stone: Let’s move the chains, come on, guys!
229 00:32:22.480 ⇒ 00:32:23.829 Alexander’s iPad: No, let’s just get this thing going.
230 00:32:23.830 ⇒ 00:32:24.410 Clarence Stone: Yeah.
231 00:32:24.410 ⇒ 00:32:25.860 Alexander’s iPad: Let’s crush 2026, come on.
232 00:32:25.860 ⇒ 00:32:27.700 Clarence Stone: Exactly. Yeah.
233 00:32:27.960 ⇒ 00:32:38.680 Alexander’s iPad: But yeah, I think if we… I think we have a cool opportunity for, like, you know, if I could plug into any of these things, you know, in the short term. In my contract now, they have me for, like, up to 10 hours a week.
234 00:32:38.730 ⇒ 00:32:53.670 Alexander’s iPad: And so, yeah, I was thinking of, you know, I have a bonus structure that gets paid out in February, so I was thinking, like, maybe March or April or something, transitioning more into Brainforge, so I’d be happy to work with you, just, like, kind of define what they need, and how that could work, and how I can
235 00:32:53.670 ⇒ 00:33:07.739 Alexander’s iPad: leverage my skills to help the organization, and then taking that time, if there’s any ways I could plug into that, you know, or onboarding that in the short term in the couple hours I have, and then see if we can build something out and get his approval for something in the spring. I think that’d be awesome.
236 00:33:08.080 ⇒ 00:33:27.860 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so, I’ve got an instant plug-in option for you. One of the weekly cadences that I’m gonna ask the team to start doing is to practice their client presentations. And instead of always having me, Utam, or Robert watch them present, I’d like you to pop in on some of them if you’d like.
237 00:33:27.920 ⇒ 00:33:31.610 Clarence Stone: The format I gave them was, one, you gotta tell me about the client.
238 00:33:31.940 ⇒ 00:33:42.789 Clarence Stone: You tell me about the project, and the progress on the project so far, as in, what did you present last week? What are you going to present this week? And then, the timer officially starts, you’re presenting as you would.
239 00:33:42.790 ⇒ 00:34:01.420 Clarence Stone: And, you know, I think having a rotation of people with different sets of experience and insights can actually give them, you know, just a better sense of, you know, how their presentation is, and it changes from audience to audience, so that variability probably is going to really train up these CSOs to be dynamic in presenting.
240 00:34:02.080 ⇒ 00:34:03.340 Alexander’s iPad: Hell yeah, put me in, coach.
241 00:34:03.340 ⇒ 00:34:16.700 Clarence Stone: Nice, alright, that’s awesome. Okay, and it’ll also get you, you know, into a sense of, like, how the organization is doing as a whole, right? So we’ll figure out what kind of buttons we need to push if you decide to join in March full-time.
242 00:34:17.010 ⇒ 00:34:17.659 Alexander’s iPad: Cool.
243 00:34:18.210 ⇒ 00:34:21.170 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I’m happy to take a look at those, or,
244 00:34:21.340 ⇒ 00:34:27.699 Alexander’s iPad: let me know what the process is for that, I’ll definitely plug into that, and then, yeah, if we wanna… we could touch base. Yeah. Yeah.
245 00:34:27.860 ⇒ 00:34:38.209 Clarence Stone: Yeah, in the meantime, like, yeah, we can ad hoc, you know, after each of us have some time to think about what that, you know, the role could be, and, you know…
246 00:34:38.210 ⇒ 00:34:56.630 Clarence Stone: all I gotta do is, you know, work with you to structure all of it out and give you a nice write-up. Like, so we did one for Lauren for head of operations that’s in that playbook right there. I mean, it’s still good for anybody who’s gonna be head of operations. Lauren didn’t decide to do it, so we want to do one for you if you ended up wanting to join and, you know, outline everything.
247 00:34:56.630 ⇒ 00:34:58.539 Clarence Stone: Just like that, yeah.
248 00:34:58.670 ⇒ 00:35:05.049 Alexander’s iPad: Cool. Yeah, let’s do it. I’ll find… yeah, we can look at the calendars, I’ll find some time after the new year, and we’ll,
249 00:35:05.230 ⇒ 00:35:10.510 Alexander’s iPad: And plug me into whatever the process is for the CSOs, and yeah, we’ll figure something out for the coming months.
250 00:35:10.510 ⇒ 00:35:11.690 Clarence Stone: Awesome, perfect.
251 00:35:11.880 ⇒ 00:35:13.140 Clarence Stone: Thanks, Alex.
252 00:35:13.140 ⇒ 00:35:15.290 Alexander’s iPad: Cool, great to meet you, Clarence. I’m glad we finally got a chance to meet you.
253 00:35:15.620 ⇒ 00:35:21.480 Clarence Stone: Yeah, awesome. And if anything comes to mind in between, just feel free to send me a ping.
254 00:35:21.870 ⇒ 00:35:24.050 Alexander’s iPad: Cool, definitely will. I’m not… I’m not shy, don’t worry about that.
255 00:35:24.130 ⇒ 00:35:27.850 Clarence Stone: Awesome, thank you, thank you. At least there’s one.
256 00:35:27.850 ⇒ 00:35:29.410 Alexander’s iPad: We’re gonna build it up, don’t worry.
257 00:35:29.410 ⇒ 00:35:30.890 Clarence Stone: Awesome. Thanks, man.
258 00:35:30.890 ⇒ 00:35:33.420 Alexander’s iPad: Thanks, Clarence. Happy New Year. I’ll talk to you after the holiday.
259 00:35:33.420 ⇒ 00:35:34.699 Clarence Stone: Yep, you too. Audios?
260 00:35:34.700 ⇒ 00:35:35.270 Alexander’s iPad: Right.