2025-12-18_ian_-_brainforge_-_insurtech_partnership

Meeting Title: Ian - Brainforge - InsurTech Partnership Check-in Date: 2025-12-18 Meeting participants: “Velora AI Notetaker”, Uttam Kumaran, Gabriel Lam, Ian

WEBVTT

1 00:00:46.340 ⇒ 00:00:49.230 Gabriel Lam: I assume that’s not Ian. That’s just the note to make.

2 00:00:49.230 ⇒ 00:00:50.289 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no.

3 00:00:50.720 ⇒ 00:00:51.320 Gabriel Lam: Yeah.

4 00:03:28.140 ⇒ 00:03:29.709 Uttam Kumaran: Let me text him.

5 00:03:29.710 ⇒ 00:03:30.240 Gabriel Lam: Yep.

6 00:07:19.580 ⇒ 00:07:22.569 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, he said he’s, on its way.

7 00:07:22.930 ⇒ 00:07:24.250 Gabriel Lam: Okay, sounds good.

8 00:11:23.300 ⇒ 00:11:24.100 Gabriel Lam: Hello!

9 00:11:24.100 ⇒ 00:11:25.549 Ian: Hey, how’s it going?

10 00:11:25.760 ⇒ 00:11:27.509 Gabriel Lam: I’m doing well, how are you?

11 00:11:27.510 ⇒ 00:11:29.200 Ian: Good, man, doing well.

12 00:11:29.200 ⇒ 00:11:30.069 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude.

13 00:11:30.710 ⇒ 00:11:33.929 Ian: What’s up? How we doing? Sorry for, sorry for being late.

14 00:11:34.230 ⇒ 00:11:39.789 Uttam Kumaran: You’re good. This is gonna be a good meeting. Gabe has some really, really cool stuff, so…

15 00:11:39.790 ⇒ 00:11:40.320 Ian: them.

16 00:11:41.400 ⇒ 00:11:45.479 Gabriel Lam: Yeah, so, good to meet you. I’m Gabe, I think this is the first time we’ve met, but…

17 00:11:45.480 ⇒ 00:11:46.179 Ian: Me too.

18 00:11:46.420 ⇒ 00:11:48.660 Gabriel Lam: Utam gave me a recording of…

19 00:11:48.820 ⇒ 00:11:54.209 Gabriel Lam: the call you did two weeks ago, so it’s kind of like, I’ve met you before you’ve actually met me kind of scenario.

20 00:11:55.040 ⇒ 00:11:58.960 Gabriel Lam: But yeah, I think… thanks for making time,

21 00:11:59.520 ⇒ 00:12:16.810 Gabriel Lam: And happy to dive right in, since… if we can just sort of get this out as soon as possible. But what we’ve been working on has been based off of the discussion that you guys had about using AI and using these workflows to really sort of supercharge and

22 00:12:16.950 ⇒ 00:12:22.090 Gabriel Lam: speed up the things that you guys have to do in insurance. And so we’ve got a couple of cold demos.

23 00:12:22.250 ⇒ 00:12:26.659 Gabriel Lam: I saw a couple of demos to run by you, and also to see

24 00:12:27.100 ⇒ 00:12:31.020 Gabriel Lam: You know, in your shoes, how you might see this, how you might use this.

25 00:12:31.570 ⇒ 00:12:42.380 Gabriel Lam: I’ll quickly, like, describe what they are, and then we can dive right in. The first demo that we’ll be starting off with is a sort of cold intake demo, where you’re, like, someone reaches out and

26 00:12:43.140 ⇒ 00:12:45.200 Gabriel Lam: They want to know, you know.

27 00:12:45.570 ⇒ 00:12:50.850 Gabriel Lam: You have a call with them, and you’re trying to fill out your supplemental application as a preparation for that.

28 00:12:51.130 ⇒ 00:12:55.070 Gabriel Lam: Our next demo would be to look at…

29 00:12:55.370 ⇒ 00:13:03.420 Gabriel Lam: policy comparisons, so let’s say you have a client already ingested, and their quotes or their policies changes from year to year.

30 00:13:04.050 ⇒ 00:13:12.929 Gabriel Lam: And our third demo would be about gap coverage and sort of maybe exclusions or critical gaps that exist for a client’s

31 00:13:13.410 ⇒ 00:13:17.849 Gabriel Lam: policy, and so you might… this might be a way to…

32 00:13:18.140 ⇒ 00:13:26.719 Gabriel Lam: if you’re reaching out to someone, be like, hey, we’d happily do an analysis for you, just to start and see if there’s something there. The last two demos are really about

33 00:13:27.530 ⇒ 00:13:30.990 Gabriel Lam: having… just…

34 00:13:31.460 ⇒ 00:13:44.840 Gabriel Lam: a chat and discussion with an existing client, so if they’re already onboarded, you have all their information, all their operational documents, all their prior quotations and policies, and you want to search for certain documentation

35 00:13:45.170 ⇒ 00:13:54.820 Gabriel Lam: or search for certain, clauses, that’s… those are the last two demos. I will say those last two are not as built out, just because

36 00:13:55.120 ⇒ 00:14:07.330 Gabriel Lam: it requires very extensive documentation, and so this is where we’d like your help, either with bringing forward documentations, or if we could even sign an NDA for other types of work to really

37 00:14:07.590 ⇒ 00:14:10.439 Gabriel Lam: test it and hash it out. But I’ll start with the first one.

38 00:14:10.770 ⇒ 00:14:15.059 Gabriel Lam: And let me share screen about how we’ve thought about it.

39 00:14:18.840 ⇒ 00:14:21.430 Gabriel Lam: do you see my screen?

40 00:14:21.790 ⇒ 00:14:22.290 Gabriel Lam: Okay.

41 00:14:22.290 ⇒ 00:14:22.960 Ian: Nope.

42 00:14:22.960 ⇒ 00:14:29.380 Gabriel Lam: So, the way we thought about this sort of cold lead would be, if you were to ever have a call, and after the call.

43 00:14:29.640 ⇒ 00:14:46.990 Gabriel Lam: you’re like, great, I have the transcript, I have my note takers, I have my supplemental applications. So, in contextual, we have data stores, which is basically where your Google Drive, like, this is where you saw all the documentation, and you can split it up in whatever way you want, by client, by use case, by type of document.

44 00:14:47.040 ⇒ 00:14:50.100 Gabriel Lam: So if we take a look at the cold intake, we have…

45 00:14:50.350 ⇒ 00:14:54.889 Gabriel Lam: Maybe supplemental applications, and as of the moment, we’re…

46 00:14:55.280 ⇒ 00:15:11.970 Gabriel Lam: I know you work with a lot of, like, contractors, real estate agent, real estate, developers, PEVC firms, and so I’ve just been trying to find, you know, sample supplemental applications for you to see. So I assume, like, feel free to interject.

47 00:15:12.210 ⇒ 00:15:18.089 Gabriel Lam: and you’re like, that’s not exactly right, like, I… we’ll figure that out. And something…

48 00:15:18.550 ⇒ 00:15:30.630 Gabriel Lam: That we’re working on is, like, hey, let’s say you take notes from a transcript, and this is just a sample transcript that you might have with a prospective client, and you’re like, hey, this is what we’re doing, this is where we are, this is our name, this is how we know each other.

49 00:15:31.070 ⇒ 00:15:37.780 Gabriel Lam: And so, if you were to say, like, hey, I want you to extract all the relevant facts from this transcript and cite it.

50 00:15:38.480 ⇒ 00:15:42.120 Gabriel Lam: You’ll then be able to see…

51 00:15:46.410 ⇒ 00:15:55.899 Gabriel Lam: a sort of table with what’s extracted, what… where they operate, maybe some licensing numbers, where the evidence comes from. You can even…

52 00:15:57.240 ⇒ 00:16:03.369 Gabriel Lam: Click into it, and it’ll… Look into whatever document you’ve loaded and extracted from there.

53 00:16:04.170 ⇒ 00:16:09.090 Gabriel Lam: I don’t know why it’s not loading. It actually does this in, like, 5 seconds.

54 00:16:09.190 ⇒ 00:16:12.560 Gabriel Lam: And so… You can see all the different…

55 00:16:13.120 ⇒ 00:16:21.459 Gabriel Lam: types of information that you have provided, and maybe, most specifically, missing or incomplete files. So you’re like, hey, I’ve got a ton of stuff.

56 00:16:21.710 ⇒ 00:16:27.899 Gabriel Lam: from you, if I need more, what are the sort of follow-up questions I need to ask? So…

57 00:16:36.340 ⇒ 00:16:41.939 Gabriel Lam: it’ll load… A couple of sections with additional follow-up questions.

58 00:16:42.100 ⇒ 00:16:46.200 Gabriel Lam: I really hope this loads, because I think this part’s super cool.

59 00:16:46.700 ⇒ 00:16:48.900 Gabriel Lam: And… Yeah.

60 00:16:48.900 ⇒ 00:16:50.150 Uttam Kumaran: Let me give it a sec.

61 00:16:50.150 ⇒ 00:16:51.380 Gabriel Lam: We can give it a second.

62 00:16:51.920 ⇒ 00:16:59.249 Gabriel Lam: And then lastly, it’s like, hey, I’ve got everything I need, I’ll edit this, or I just want you to draft an email to figure that out.

63 00:17:02.190 ⇒ 00:17:08.609 Gabriel Lam: and the reason it says 42 pieces is just how the AI currently, like.

64 00:17:09.160 ⇒ 00:17:13.290 Gabriel Lam: puts whatever information into chunks, so that’ll change over time, and say…

65 00:17:13.290 ⇒ 00:17:20.629 Uttam Kumaran: So, if you go… if you click on that, Gabe, the 42 pieces of evidence, this is, like, a really important piece, Ian, is so that you can actually go back and prove, like, click on one of those.

66 00:17:22.640 ⇒ 00:17:26.159 Gabriel Lam: So it’ll say if it’s page 1 or, like, page 7 of this application.

67 00:17:26.160 ⇒ 00:17:38.660 Uttam Kumaran: This is why we, like, really fuck with this technology, is not… it’s not only important for the AI to tell you the answer, but you need to be, as an insurance… you need to be able to trace back to the source of truth for you to verify.

68 00:17:38.660 ⇒ 00:17:40.140 Ian: Like, okay.

69 00:17:40.310 ⇒ 00:17:45.170 Uttam Kumaran: for example, let’s say you were to give an AI answer, and someone replies to you, like, I don’t think that’s right.

70 00:17:45.430 ⇒ 00:17:54.370 Uttam Kumaran: If you just, like, took the AI, and you’re like, I have no way to back into the evidence, this is why we love this technology, is because it literally shows you where in the document it sourced it from.

71 00:17:55.360 ⇒ 00:18:08.609 Ian: Massively important when you’re talking a 200-page policy doc with contract language and, you know, exclusion doc… exclusion form numbers, and yeah, I mean, that’s absolutely imperative. Accuracy is the…

72 00:18:09.250 ⇒ 00:18:13.869 Ian: is the determining factor on whether losses are covered or not, so it’s like…

73 00:18:14.240 ⇒ 00:18:16.269 Ian: That’s… that is awesome, I like that.

74 00:18:16.840 ⇒ 00:18:21.849 Gabriel Lam: Yes, so for example, here, a question you might ask is, like.

75 00:18:22.410 ⇒ 00:18:25.179 Gabriel Lam: Are they insured? If yes, what’s the limit? And it’ll sort of…

76 00:18:25.420 ⇒ 00:18:31.440 Gabriel Lam: draw you to, where it takes that information from. So my question for you here would be.

77 00:18:31.580 ⇒ 00:18:44.130 Gabriel Lam: Is this sort of in line with how you typically receive a new client, or ingest a new client? What does that process typically look like? Do they sort of give you a ton of documentation, or is this sort of more piecemeal, call-by-call.

78 00:18:44.630 ⇒ 00:18:45.600 Ian: Correct. So…

79 00:18:45.720 ⇒ 00:18:53.829 Ian: So I think, you know, every situation’s different, but it’s… but it always comes down to how can you strategically get

80 00:18:54.190 ⇒ 00:19:13.539 Ian: as much information as you need to understand the risk profile of the prospect, like, with the least amount of calls, the least amount of time spent on a phone, or in a Zoom meeting, or least amount of back and forth, like, hey, send me your existing policy documents, send me all this loss history, blah blah blah, like…

81 00:19:13.640 ⇒ 00:19:16.820 Ian: It… this… this definitely is in line.

82 00:19:17.080 ⇒ 00:19:35.610 Ian: when it comes to… I don’t know if maybe it was just the way I heard what you were saying about the supplemental application piece, but never will there be a situation where a client delivered, or a prospect delivers a completed supplemental to me, initially. That’s always something that I am in… it’s up to me to…

83 00:19:36.080 ⇒ 00:19:38.479 Ian: In the order… the order of operations here is…

84 00:19:38.540 ⇒ 00:19:57.290 Ian: I find a prospect, or I have someone I’m interested in being their broker, I contact them, we discuss over the phone, or set a meeting to discuss, you know, their business, what they’ve seen, what they’re looking for, what their current agent is lacking, as far as service goes, or expertise, or what losses have they experienced.

85 00:19:57.290 ⇒ 00:20:04.090 Ian: And then from there, it’s like, okay, great, you know, I think there’s definitely some value-add here, I’d love to take this to the next step.

86 00:20:04.330 ⇒ 00:20:09.879 Ian: Provide me with your current insurance policy documents, or show me what your current program looks like.

87 00:20:10.200 ⇒ 00:20:33.790 Ian: When they deliver that information to me, that’s like them giving me the keys to the castle, right? I have the policy documents, I have their current program, I understand what their certificates of insurance, what coverages, what policies are they referencing when they’re sending these out to their clients that are demanding that they carry these coverages, and I can see everything. Okay, these are the carriers, and the best case scenario is they give me the full policy documents. Does that happen all the time?

88 00:20:34.040 ⇒ 00:20:47.570 Ian: Not a lot of times when you’re not working with sophisticated clients, they don’t truly… they’re like, I don’t know where that is, or oh, you know, I’m not gonna ask my agent for that, or here’s a certificate we sent. That usually is how it goes. They’ll send you a certificate that references all the stuff they have.

89 00:20:47.940 ⇒ 00:20:53.060 Ian: From there, I basically say, okay, yeah, I’m gonna do… I’ll do a…

90 00:20:53.320 ⇒ 00:20:56.160 Ian: a free… not a free, I don’t frame it like that, but…

91 00:20:56.360 ⇒ 00:21:02.330 Ian: you know, let me dive in, dig in, let me see where there’s gaps. Like you mentioned, that’s one of the next demos.

92 00:21:02.330 ⇒ 00:21:16.729 Ian: And I just understand the snapshot of what their business looks like, then I go find or contact the insurance carriers or wholesaler markets to be like, hey, I have a client that’s doing XYZ in sales, this is their scope of work.

93 00:21:16.730 ⇒ 00:21:30.969 Ian: you know, this is their payroll, employees, whatever, and they say, okay, here’s a supplemental application from Kinsale, like the one you showed me, or we think this market would be a good fit. Please fill this out, have the insured fill this out, and return it along with…

94 00:21:30.970 ⇒ 00:21:33.419 Ian: Loss history, and

95 00:21:33.560 ⇒ 00:21:46.790 Ian: you know, standardized applications, like the Accord forms, like the Accord 125 for general liability, the Accord 130 for work comp, those are always required. But the supplemental application is the piece that

96 00:21:47.120 ⇒ 00:21:58.279 Ian: when I contact the markets and say, hey, I have this risk and this new prospect, they say, here, fill this out. Or I may already have one on file that I’m like, this is a really good standardized supplemental that…

97 00:21:58.280 ⇒ 00:22:10.119 Ian: I can send in off the bat, but once the carriers or the wholesalers find a market that’s a better fit, or someone that they know they can quote this with, they’ll send me a brand new supplemental from that carrier and say, hey.

98 00:22:10.120 ⇒ 00:22:12.449 Ian: Transcribe that data into this one.

99 00:22:12.500 ⇒ 00:22:24.990 Ian: And this will be part of the binding documents whenever they want to… if I want to sell this, and they agree to, you know, the insured agrees to it, they would then have to sign off on that supplemental and say, all this data is accurate based on my business.

100 00:22:25.350 ⇒ 00:22:32.630 Ian: operations. So… that… that’s kind of the way it goes. It’s like, prospect, me.

101 00:22:33.130 ⇒ 00:22:38.709 Ian: gather as much info and data as I can, whether it’s through a call, video call, policy documents.

102 00:22:38.730 ⇒ 00:22:52.940 Ian: I look at that, I say, great, now I have the keys to the kingdom. Let me go to the markets, figure out where I can find a fit, or if there’s a competitor that might be able to beat the price, get better terms, whatever, you know, whatever their pain points were, I can engage the market that way.

103 00:22:52.940 ⇒ 00:22:58.919 Ian: Then they’ll give me supplementals to fill out, or I’ll use one I have on file, which I already know a good fit.

104 00:22:59.170 ⇒ 00:23:10.709 Ian: then that all gets… basically, there’ll be some areas where I can’t fill in the questions, or I don’t know the answers. That would be where I think the call transcript stuff and all that, like…

105 00:23:10.900 ⇒ 00:23:22.629 Ian: is important, the client data that I may have missed on a call, or not wrote down in time. I usually will send a handful of questions back to that client, or call them again and do it over the phone.

106 00:23:22.630 ⇒ 00:23:32.479 Ian: Sometimes I’ll even highlight the supplemental on the parts that I can’t answer, and I say, hey, please fill out the highlighted sections of this so we can get firm quotes, bindable quote options.

107 00:23:32.490 ⇒ 00:23:37.159 Ian: then I go back to the market. So, that’s… that’s kind of the back and forth there.

108 00:23:37.690 ⇒ 00:23:38.320 Ian: Okay.

109 00:23:38.320 ⇒ 00:23:45.250 Gabriel Lam: So, just to confirm, in most cases, once you’ve sort of hooked that initial cold

110 00:23:45.480 ⇒ 00:23:55.799 Gabriel Lam: first interaction, and you get the keys to the castle, like, that’s where you really start filling in the supplemental. Like, you don’t really do anything until you have sufficient information.

111 00:23:55.800 ⇒ 00:24:06.299 Ian: Correct. Yeah, I’m never gonna go through that… that song and dance before it makes sense to, because then it’s just a waste of energy, time, and plus, I don’t know enough to even.

112 00:24:06.300 ⇒ 00:24:06.830 Gabriel Lam: Right.

113 00:24:06.830 ⇒ 00:24:24.989 Ian: all I know is, okay, he’s a home builder, or oh, he’s a real estate developer and does mid-rise apartments. Like, there’s a shit ton more information and nuances that are gonna be relevant, especially when I’m actually trying to get a firm quote that’s… that isn’t just an indication on maybe the price would fall in this range. You know, it’s like…

114 00:24:24.990 ⇒ 00:24:31.459 Ian: There’s a… there’s a lot of stuff I have to have on hand before I can even get a number from the market to present to the client.

115 00:24:31.760 ⇒ 00:24:32.400 Gabriel Lam: Got it.

116 00:24:32.400 ⇒ 00:24:32.800 Ian: Yeah.

117 00:24:32.800 ⇒ 00:24:44.929 Gabriel Lam: And when you’re going to wholesalers, you mainly go to them with the supplemental, right? Like, or do you bring in other documentation, or like, what do you… when you say the risk profile, is that also included in a supplemental?

118 00:24:44.930 ⇒ 00:25:01.860 Ian: the risk profile would just be in form of usually, like, an email. You know, if I have a supplemental that I already know is a decent fit, like, there’s a lot of supplementals out there for real estate investor, you know, portfolios, or, you know, whatever. Like, I can be proactive and decide which one I’m gonna try to fill out.

119 00:25:01.860 ⇒ 00:25:14.970 Ian: before I… you know, I… sometimes I might be able to get everything completed, filled out on a one call. If they come to the call with their policy documents, and I can see it and do it in real time and ask them questions, I may have enough to go to market and get a quote the very next day.

120 00:25:14.970 ⇒ 00:25:15.600 Gabriel Lam: Hmm.

121 00:25:15.600 ⇒ 00:25:18.759 Ian: That is not the most often…

122 00:25:19.970 ⇒ 00:25:24.909 Ian: case. That doesn’t happen very often, though. It’s usually a lot of back and forth, and…

123 00:25:25.150 ⇒ 00:25:27.890 Ian: It’s tough, because, like, speed is everything.

124 00:25:28.060 ⇒ 00:25:29.420 Gabriel Lam: Yup.

125 00:25:29.970 ⇒ 00:25:37.790 Ian: Especially if they engage other brokers, too. It’s like, there’s multiple people involved. As soon as one broker gets a quote from one market, it’s blocked from everyone else.

126 00:25:37.790 ⇒ 00:25:38.470 Gabriel Lam: Yeah.

127 00:25:38.470 ⇒ 00:25:39.980 Ian: But yeah.

128 00:25:40.130 ⇒ 00:25:40.740 Ian: Yeah.

129 00:25:40.740 ⇒ 00:25:41.910 Gabriel Lam: Got it. Okay.

130 00:25:41.910 ⇒ 00:25:47.680 Ian: I usually do… to answer your question, as… Like, straightforward as possible.

131 00:25:48.700 ⇒ 00:25:53.540 Ian: You’re asking, basically, like, do I fill out the supplemental?

132 00:25:53.880 ⇒ 00:25:58.200 Ian: Or do I go to the wholesalers with the completed supplemental? That’s what you’re saying?

133 00:25:58.200 ⇒ 00:25:58.990 Gabriel Lam: Yes, yeah.

134 00:25:58.990 ⇒ 00:25:59.520 Ian: Good.

135 00:26:00.810 ⇒ 00:26:08.779 Ian: Sometimes. Not… not often, unless I know the exact market that’s… that… that might work. Like, yes, it’ll help.

136 00:26:08.860 ⇒ 00:26:29.589 Ian: give them the best snapshot possible, because it’s very, you know, particular questions, but sometimes it’ll be a simple email description of what I was able to understand about the risk. And then, okay, great, we think this would be a good market, here’s a supplemental, have this filled out, provide us the loss history, and accord forms to go with the submission, which are standardized submission documents, as you know.

137 00:26:29.810 ⇒ 00:26:31.219 Ian: Okay. Yep.

138 00:26:31.670 ⇒ 00:26:36.429 Gabriel Lam: Got it. Awesome. Thank you for the insight. I’ll take that into account.

139 00:26:36.820 ⇒ 00:26:42.330 Gabriel Lam: The next thing we have is a sort of gap coverage analysis, and so this might be…

140 00:26:42.520 ⇒ 00:26:45.709 Gabriel Lam: a part of that workflow, I imagine. In this case.

141 00:26:46.430 ⇒ 00:26:49.800 Gabriel Lam: I found, like, a sort of supplemental risk coverage form.

142 00:26:50.340 ⇒ 00:26:54.769 Gabriel Lam: And a sort of synthetic, like a,

143 00:26:55.940 ⇒ 00:27:14.880 Gabriel Lam: made-up client profile and some of the things they do, in this case, a contractor that uses drones for roof inspections, for example. I’m curious, first of all, like, how… I’m guessing most of this will come in either through your own research or through emails, and I think that’s also documentation that we can put in.

144 00:27:14.960 ⇒ 00:27:16.710 Gabriel Lam: In this case.

145 00:27:17.220 ⇒ 00:27:24.490 Gabriel Lam: A thing that we might ask would be, like, given the client profile that we upload onto our drive, like, what are sort of the critical gaps in our coverage?

146 00:27:29.180 ⇒ 00:27:31.680 Gabriel Lam: So I don’t know why it’s Okay.

147 00:27:32.890 ⇒ 00:27:35.689 Gabriel Lam: I’ll figure that out.

148 00:27:36.770 ⇒ 00:27:43.800 Gabriel Lam: What it would typically give is, like, hey, there’s a gap where your client uses drones.

149 00:27:43.980 ⇒ 00:27:48.720 Gabriel Lam: The… there’s a relevant… Part of the policy.

150 00:27:49.010 ⇒ 00:27:50.410 Gabriel Lam: That calls out.

151 00:27:50.520 ⇒ 00:28:01.190 Gabriel Lam: you know, something related to that limitation, and maybe a coverage issue. And so, I… we saw it as, like, hey, this is a way for you to maybe read through someone’s policy, and also

152 00:28:01.570 ⇒ 00:28:11.300 Gabriel Lam: have either calls or transcripts or emails or other forms of documentation, and be able to sort of cross-reference. And then…

153 00:28:11.660 ⇒ 00:28:15.360 Gabriel Lam: To be able to provide recommendations on the

154 00:28:15.600 ⇒ 00:28:25.249 Gabriel Lam: certain things to cover, whether it’s drones or waterproofing or, compliance, and then also to, again, draft emails. And so…

155 00:28:25.970 ⇒ 00:28:31.529 Gabriel Lam: One of the things that… Again, we can reference is parts of different…

156 00:28:31.660 ⇒ 00:28:35.889 Gabriel Lam: Different parts of your data store, just to reference, like, hey,

157 00:28:36.020 ⇒ 00:28:38.890 Gabriel Lam: There are operations here that aren’t fully covered.

158 00:28:39.400 ⇒ 00:28:42.230 Gabriel Lam: use of drones, or…

159 00:28:42.490 ⇒ 00:28:56.659 Gabriel Lam: here, the policy excludes interior damage from… from rain. And so, here, is this going… do you see this as part of that, like, intake process, or do you see this as…

160 00:28:57.150 ⇒ 00:29:05.069 Gabriel Lam: a, like, once you’ve gotten a quote, then we’ll follow up, or, like, maybe where does gap coverage for you sit in your whole workflow, and…

161 00:29:05.380 ⇒ 00:29:07.710 Gabriel Lam: Maybe, are there ways that we can really speed that up?

162 00:29:07.890 ⇒ 00:29:25.100 Ian: Yeah, so I think there’s… there’s two places where it comes into play. I think first… the first in the order of operations would be, you know, whenever I’m soliciting a prospect and trying to, you know, build that relationship and get information from them, I’m, number one, gonna offer free consultation on, like.

163 00:29:25.120 ⇒ 00:29:29.919 Ian: let me review your program, and through conversation, I’ll learn about what it is they’re doing.

164 00:29:30.220 ⇒ 00:29:47.369 Ian: do I really know? I don’t work in their business, so I don’t truly know what’s being accounted for on their current program, like, in their policies, and I probably won’t be able to get my hands on the supplemental applications they may have previously filled out to get this program put in place in the first place, so…

165 00:29:47.510 ⇒ 00:30:01.209 Ian: I have to go in, understand what is being covered, what exposure is being revealed in their current insurance program, and then compare that to the conversations I’m having with them about what are they doing, you know?

166 00:30:01.210 ⇒ 00:30:01.870 Gabriel Lam: Hmm.

167 00:30:01.870 ⇒ 00:30:08.820 Ian: I, you know, because very, very frequently, You’ll find that… a business’s

168 00:30:08.880 ⇒ 00:30:17.320 Ian: insurance program doesn’t truly cover all their exposure, or the exposure isn’t stagnant. It’s very much so a changing

169 00:30:17.320 ⇒ 00:30:35.470 Ian: thing, you know, every day could be different. They might take on a contract in a week from now that’s, you know, worth, you know, 50% of their revenue from the prior year, you know, like, and it could be a totally different scope of work than what they’re used to doing, but they’re gonna subcontract that work out, and they, you know, there’s just so many nuances, so…

170 00:30:35.600 ⇒ 00:30:55.239 Ian: the gap piece, I think it’s, like, the initial intake of a prospect and saying, okay, I’m gonna do a deep dive, see what I see, see what issues may pop up, and then that would lead me into the conversation, the next check-in of, hey, you know, here’s what we’ve seen, here’s what we understand, and what might be a problem in the future, or what maybe

171 00:30:55.240 ⇒ 00:31:07.249 Ian: Could be a red flag that you may not otherwise have known about, and that kind of builds that rapport and shows, hey, like, this person has researched my stuff, they listen to me talk, they understand what our future goals are, like, you know.

172 00:31:07.430 ⇒ 00:31:08.480 Ian: I think…

173 00:31:08.770 ⇒ 00:31:23.950 Ian: Having some sort of… it’s a marriage between, like, having some sort of standardized intake process or form to really get a good snapshot of someone’s business, and then also using that to compare with their current program to really reveal where there’s some missing…

174 00:31:23.960 ⇒ 00:31:31.800 Ian: pieces, or some potential issues. And then from the next piece, I could see the gap analysis coming into play would be.

175 00:31:31.890 ⇒ 00:31:37.360 Ian: when I have the supplemental completed, when I have all the data, I’m submitting it to a market, and I get a quote back.

176 00:31:37.730 ⇒ 00:31:57.350 Ian: taking that understanding of what we’ve known about the client, what we’ve come to understand about their operations, their goals, their future work for the next 12 months, their payroll, their revenue, and taking that and finding a way to compare that directly to the quote that’s being offered from the market that we’re gonna propose to the client. That piece there, comparing

177 00:31:57.710 ⇒ 00:32:13.270 Ian: our client, you know, whatever we’ve collected, to the quote that’s being delivered from the wholesaler or the carrier, and making sure that there’s at least, like, a 95% match. You know, there’s always gonna be an exclusion here that may not be, you know.

178 00:32:13.710 ⇒ 00:32:28.250 Ian: perfect, or, you know, maybe, you know, like, those terms aren’t as strong as maybe this other carrier could have given us, but it’s not… nothing’s ever going to be black and white. There’s so much gray area, and as long as, like, my client isn’t doing only

179 00:32:28.420 ⇒ 00:32:50.029 Ian: three-story and up construction projects, and then there’s an exclusion in this quote for any work over two stories is totally excluded, you know? Like, that’s an obvious, huge problem. You would have to go back and say, this quote is worthless, or remove this endorsement, or we need a different carrier option. So, there’s absolute red flags, and then there’s a bunch of, like, you know, these are important to note type things.

180 00:32:50.030 ⇒ 00:32:54.259 Ian: But those are the two areas, I think the analysis of

181 00:32:54.460 ⇒ 00:32:57.000 Ian: Gaps between two things would be important.

182 00:32:57.000 ⇒ 00:32:57.610 Gabriel Lam: Hmm.

183 00:32:57.610 ⇒ 00:33:01.820 Ian: Intake, and also on the quote comparison.

184 00:33:02.860 ⇒ 00:33:05.729 Ian: Compared to what you deliver in the supplemental to the market.

185 00:33:06.030 ⇒ 00:33:13.210 Gabriel Lam: Gotcha. I think to maybe step back to something you said at the beginning, I’m curious when you say, like, hey, we’re gonna…

186 00:33:13.680 ⇒ 00:33:20.339 Gabriel Lam: we have client programs and, certificates or their policies. Like, when you’re looking at

187 00:33:21.840 ⇒ 00:33:27.979 Gabriel Lam: examining or doing a deep dive on their gaps, and sort of building a client profile? Like, how…

188 00:33:28.580 ⇒ 00:33:33.570 Gabriel Lam: Are they giving you information on, like, hey, we only do 3,

189 00:33:34.180 ⇒ 00:33:49.920 Gabriel Lam: a minimum of 3 stories and up. Like, where does that information come from? Is it through calls? Is it through, like, you actually have to research their website? Is it through, like, prior contracts, or, like, you see their projects, or is it part of their insurance program? Like, I’m curious how you figure out

190 00:33:50.080 ⇒ 00:33:52.159 Gabriel Lam: like, I guess the profile of a client.

191 00:33:52.430 ⇒ 00:34:09.510 Ian: That’s the… that’s… that’s the art of this. That is why the human element will always remain, at least for the foreseeable future, like, when it comes to these commercial risks, and, like, you have to have some sort of human element to help you get what you need to be truly protecting your exposure.

192 00:34:09.650 ⇒ 00:34:16.229 Ian: It’s like… what… Something I tell my clients all the time is, what I don’t know will hurt you.

193 00:34:16.400 ⇒ 00:34:17.239 Gabriel Lam: Like…

194 00:34:17.330 ⇒ 00:34:32.109 Ian: Because when it comes down to it, they may not say it, they may not reveal everything I need to know. They may not answer a question appropriately because they may fear that, oh, I don’t want to tell them this because it’ll increase my premiums, or, oh, I just forgot to mention this, or oh, I…

195 00:34:32.110 ⇒ 00:34:41.559 Ian: personally, maybe I didn’t even know that. My business is so dynamic, we’re multi-state, we’re multi, you know, vertical, like, we… there’s so much going on, there’s no real way to…

196 00:34:41.560 ⇒ 00:34:46.039 Ian: to make sure everything’s perfectly, you know, delivered.

197 00:34:46.560 ⇒ 00:35:03.439 Ian: I truly just take the time to listen, and I think that’s the important piece with something as simple as, like, an AI note-taker. You know, something to capture every piece of valuable data exiting the prospect’s mouth, whether that’s on a meeting, a call.

198 00:35:03.930 ⇒ 00:35:06.749 Ian: Email, but… but primarily.

199 00:35:07.040 ⇒ 00:35:23.619 Ian: it… I get most of my information from looking at their current program. If I have the policy documents, that is gospel, because regardless of what they’re really doing or saying they’re doing, that is what, like, the documents are the contract. That’s what’s covered, that’s what’s excluded.

200 00:35:23.620 ⇒ 00:35:28.899 Ian: In the current time. Got it. From there, I have enough information to say, okay.

201 00:35:29.280 ⇒ 00:35:43.119 Ian: when I fill out a supplemental, that’s where it gets a little bit further into the nitty-gritty. It’s like, okay, you’re doing $3 million in sales annually, what are you expecting for the next 12 months? Of that… of that revenue, is… how much is coming from commercial? How much is coming from residential?

202 00:35:43.120 ⇒ 00:35:55.450 Ian: From there, there’s charts and things, or there’s, like, a bunch of different boxes where it’s like, okay, what scopes of work is this percent of revenue coming from? So that they can… the carriers are understanding a deeper…

203 00:35:55.450 ⇒ 00:35:59.670 Ian: You know, they have a deeper understanding of the true exposure that they’re gonna be insuring.

204 00:35:59.670 ⇒ 00:36:02.200 Ian: And I think that’s where…

205 00:36:02.590 ⇒ 00:36:15.589 Ian: at that point is where I have, okay, there’s these questions that I know from what I’ve seen in the policy docs, and what I know is important, and also what I’ve heard from the prospect. I need to clarify these things, and here’s why.

206 00:36:15.860 ⇒ 00:36:16.680 Gabriel Lam: Got it.

207 00:36:16.680 ⇒ 00:36:21.269 Ian: So, it’s just like a… it’s a cascading effect of, like, Digging in deeper.

208 00:36:21.610 ⇒ 00:36:23.610 Gabriel Lam: Yeah, and so, in some ways.

209 00:36:23.790 ⇒ 00:36:27.450 Gabriel Lam: if I’m a sort of, like, re-re…

210 00:36:27.470 ⇒ 00:36:36.149 Gabriel Lam: recount it, you’re sort of looking at the program and, like, extracting questions from their program with, like, hey, I notice, you know, you’re doing 3 million in sales.

211 00:36:36.160 ⇒ 00:36:47.489 Gabriel Lam: it seems like you might be doing more this year, this is something I should ask them, I’ll follow up with them. They get back to me, and I’m like, okay, now I know they are expanding, I’ll try to make sure that’s included in their profile and add it for their next years.

212 00:36:47.490 ⇒ 00:36:59.269 Ian: Yep, it’s always… you’re always trying to look 12 months ahead, and you know, there’s strategy in how you… and how you go about delivering that information to the market for rating purposes and price.

213 00:36:59.380 ⇒ 00:37:02.660 Ian: But… What… what it comes down to…

214 00:37:02.980 ⇒ 00:37:05.949 Ian: I think… I think another thing that’s important to note is, like.

215 00:37:06.810 ⇒ 00:37:15.889 Ian: Depending on the size and sophistication of a client, They have a different… They see different value in…

216 00:37:16.530 ⇒ 00:37:20.679 Ian: you know, as an agent, is it… are you fast, are you cheap? Can you get it done?

217 00:37:21.000 ⇒ 00:37:38.849 Ian: and you give me what I need to just take on this construction loan, or get this loan pushed through, or get on this project and start working, or, you know, the larger, sophisticated clients are caring more about loss control, true exposure coverage, like… like, not getting sued and going bankrupt, like, wanting to scale properly.

218 00:37:39.010 ⇒ 00:37:45.330 Ian: And that’s just… you have to adjust your approach as an agent, depending on your prospect.

219 00:37:45.900 ⇒ 00:37:47.959 Ian: Sometimes, you know, you know…

220 00:37:48.280 ⇒ 00:38:04.230 Ian: they’re not covered for something, and you make it very clear, but they don’t give a shit. They just want to move forward, and they know they’ve done it like this in the past, it’s cheaper. Okay. So I have them sign a disclosure, and, you know, we talked about it, and I’m not gonna get sued if they say, what, you told me I was covered for this, you know?

221 00:38:04.230 ⇒ 00:38:07.190 Gabriel Lam: And you’re like, no, you signed a disclosure, it’s not about you.

222 00:38:07.190 ⇒ 00:38:14.039 Ian: told you this is a risk, and like, also, I think it just comes from experience, like, knowing what questions to ask, knowing what

223 00:38:14.160 ⇒ 00:38:18.280 Ian: On different lines of coverage for different types of insurance,

224 00:38:18.760 ⇒ 00:38:28.690 Ian: buyers, you know, different… different, metrics adjust the rate, or, you know, I know what… I know that revenue, payroll, and, you know.

225 00:38:29.070 ⇒ 00:38:40.760 Ian: percentage of work that’s being subcontracted versus self-performed. For a contractor or a builder, I know those things are the primary drivers of rate, which is gonna affect the premium. So I know what questions to ask.

226 00:38:41.200 ⇒ 00:38:43.310 Ian: And to make sure, you know, for the most part.

227 00:38:43.810 ⇒ 00:38:46.630 Ian: but… Yeah.

228 00:38:47.130 ⇒ 00:38:48.380 Gabriel Lam: Okay, awesome.

229 00:38:48.540 ⇒ 00:38:50.599 Ian: I’d go out for days about that stuff, yeah.

230 00:38:50.600 ⇒ 00:38:54.430 Gabriel Lam: Yes, and then our last

231 00:38:56.160 ⇒ 00:39:06.319 Gabriel Lam: our last demo is mostly about quote or policy comparison. In this instance, again, we… I think for the most part, our main blocker has been just a lack of

232 00:39:07.220 ⇒ 00:39:09.850 Gabriel Lam: true documentation. I think that’s really been, like.

233 00:39:10.010 ⇒ 00:39:12.079 Gabriel Lam: The hardest thing to… to test.

234 00:39:12.520 ⇒ 00:39:15.270 Gabriel Lam: against. And so, in this case, we are…

235 00:39:15.420 ⇒ 00:39:31.740 Gabriel Lam: using what I thought was the next best thing, which was health insurance, because I think those are the most readily available online. So an example for you to maybe compare between different carriers or different types of plans would be… in this case, I use, like, Blue Cross Blue Shield in Massachusetts, for example.

236 00:39:32.960 ⇒ 00:39:41.010 Gabriel Lam: And once it finds the relevant documentation, again, Let’s… LevitThink.

237 00:39:48.090 ⇒ 00:39:55.410 Gabriel Lam: And so it’ll give you, for example, the major differences, key differences, implications, and a recommendation.

238 00:39:55.930 ⇒ 00:40:00.480 Gabriel Lam: Again, we can also, you know, see if…

239 00:40:00.780 ⇒ 00:40:12.779 Gabriel Lam: coverage has changed, we can specifically ask for coverage change over years, and I think this is a way for us to really have you store a lot of different information in a single drive, and also

240 00:40:13.170 ⇒ 00:40:14.190 Gabriel Lam: call out.

241 00:40:14.550 ⇒ 00:40:21.479 Ian: I think that piece is huge, because if you’re building a client profile, or, like, or a single source of truth for, like.

242 00:40:22.080 ⇒ 00:40:34.009 Ian: you could even… you could even spot trends of, like, oh, this client has been with us for 5 years, we have 5 years of policy documents for every line of coverage. It could start understanding, hey, like.

243 00:40:34.080 ⇒ 00:40:46.910 Ian: we’re noticing they’re growing, their revenue’s growing by about 8% a year, and the premiums are following suit at X percent increase for the GL, for the work comp, for the this, like, that… that seems like it could be really cool.

244 00:40:47.120 ⇒ 00:40:52.689 Gabriel Lam: My main question here is, when you’re looking… I guess, what is,

245 00:40:53.910 ⇒ 00:41:12.630 Gabriel Lam: the way of thinking when you approach policy comparison, and maybe what’s the interface, or, like, what sort of display of information you like? Do you see it as, like, I want every single line item called out, and then sort of ranked into recommendations? Or do you see, like.

246 00:41:13.200 ⇒ 00:41:15.929 Gabriel Lam: Yeah, I guess… I guess my main question is, when you approach

247 00:41:16.060 ⇒ 00:41:26.609 Gabriel Lam: a sort of exercise like that? Are you looking at, like, hey, I notice these are the most critical items, as in your premiums are going up, your coverage is going down, or your sort of max, the number of

248 00:41:27.450 ⇒ 00:41:38.450 Gabriel Lam: the level of your exclusion has slowly gone down over the years? Or are you sort of looking at every single line by line, and you’re like, I’m gonna have to look through, you know, a thousand different things, and then make my…

249 00:41:38.700 ⇒ 00:41:39.950 Ian: So…

250 00:41:39.950 ⇒ 00:41:40.640 Gabriel Lam: decision.

251 00:41:41.080 ⇒ 00:41:51.689 Ian: I think the devil is in the details with this kind of stuff, because if I don’t take it line by line, there is a very high chance something will be missed or overlooked.

252 00:41:51.910 ⇒ 00:42:06.959 Ian: And then that’s an… that’s an exposure for me as the… as the person providing the professional service. That’s why you’re legally required to have errors and omissions insurance to run an agency. So, you know, I think if there’s a…

253 00:42:07.400 ⇒ 00:42:25.080 Ian: I think a ranking system would be very cool, but in order for it to properly rank, hey, this is the most important kind of issue between this policy, this current policy, and the renewal that’s being offered, because a lot of times things just get moved and changed on renewals, even though it’s supposed to be the same thing.

254 00:42:25.080 ⇒ 00:42:34.660 Ian: Or, if it’s… I’m going to market with this data, and I need a quote to cover this insured, here’s how it compares with their existing program that I’ve been provided.

255 00:42:34.720 ⇒ 00:42:38.150 Ian: You know, it would… a summary is cool, but it doesn’t do…

256 00:42:38.260 ⇒ 00:42:41.020 Ian: a summary doesn’t do it. It has to be…

257 00:42:41.890 ⇒ 00:42:48.250 Ian: From understanding insurance terminology and contract language, it has to be, like.

258 00:42:48.950 ⇒ 00:42:50.579 Ian: Apples to apples, the whole way.

259 00:42:50.580 ⇒ 00:42:54.359 Gabriel Lam: So, you’re sort of… your priority is, like.

260 00:42:54.970 ⇒ 00:43:09.170 Gabriel Lam: the quantity and depth of detail, and then you’ll take it from there. Either you specifically specify, like, hey, I think, you know, your premium rate increase is gonna be something to really focus on, but I still want to see every single difference that’s out there.

261 00:43:09.170 ⇒ 00:43:27.290 Ian: Yeah, and from an agent’s perspective, like, a true… a true risk advisor and, like, someone who actually understands why it’s important for this, especially for, like, very litigious, complex risks, like construction, development, you care less, like, I’m never gonna look at price.

262 00:43:27.760 ⇒ 00:43:32.050 Ian: Like, price is at the very bottom of the totem pole as far as importance to me.

263 00:43:32.450 ⇒ 00:43:39.969 Ian: Obviously, I’m not the one buying the product, so yeah, I can say that all day, but it… insureds do care about that, but as far as, like.

264 00:43:39.980 ⇒ 00:43:56.149 Ian: what’s truly important, it’s covering their exposure. It’s not about, oh, this is gonna increase the premium by a few grand, like, you know, that’s secondary, always, to coverage and exposure being dealt with properly.

265 00:43:56.800 ⇒ 00:43:58.509 Ian: I think, also, like.

266 00:43:58.670 ⇒ 00:44:05.739 Ian: You know, to keep things, like, like, truly value-driven, like, yeah, a shit ton of information and comparative…

267 00:44:05.740 ⇒ 00:44:23.929 Ian: data is great, but, you know, some sort of ranking system in a summary form that says, hey, these are absolute red flags, this is totally mismatched, this exposure is not accounted for compared to last year, or compared to the supplemental. The client clearly stated they’re subbing out 80% of the work.

268 00:44:23.930 ⇒ 00:44:26.779 Ian: This policy excludes all subcontracted work.

269 00:44:26.840 ⇒ 00:44:45.090 Ian: red flag, red flag, red flag, this needs to be accounted for, fixed, you know, these are some yellow issues, like, and then these are some, hey, maybe worth considering, maybe worth a discussion with your client, see if they want to pay for this or that, you know, but it’s not detrimental and makes this policy worth absolutely nothing, you know? Yeah. So…

270 00:44:45.300 ⇒ 00:44:49.409 Ian: That… that kind of ranking system would be… would be valuable, for sure, to just…

271 00:44:49.690 ⇒ 00:44:51.610 Ian: Get to the point,

272 00:44:52.320 ⇒ 00:45:02.419 Ian: And then also, I think it’s worth mentioning, too, like, with this technology, even if you do give the, like, pages and pages of data from, like, comparing a policy or a quote or whatever.

273 00:45:02.420 ⇒ 00:45:14.709 Ian: it’s still better than how it had to be done previously. Two PDFs side by side, scroll page and page at a time, read every freaking word to understand, and truly, like, dig in and realize, like.

274 00:45:14.760 ⇒ 00:45:18.000 Ian: You know, that’s hours and hours and hours of work.

275 00:45:18.660 ⇒ 00:45:25.309 Ian: When you could just run it through this and know that it’s not summarizing, it’s not assuming, it’s not guessing, there needs to be zero assumption.

276 00:45:25.310 ⇒ 00:45:25.630 Gabriel Lam: Yep.

277 00:45:25.630 ⇒ 00:45:41.520 Ian: That’s what I’ve found ChatGPT to have some issues with when I do policy comparison. I’ve really had to hound it about stop inferring things, stop choosing to say, oh, this is construction, let me think about how other things in construction work. Like, no, this needs to be

278 00:45:42.080 ⇒ 00:45:43.289 Ian: black and white.

279 00:45:43.420 ⇒ 00:45:44.090 Gabriel Lam: Yep.

280 00:45:44.090 ⇒ 00:45:57.470 Ian: show me the differences, you know, and then from there, as the professional and the human in the loop, go… I can go in and start, you know, making inferences or comparing it to other situations I’ve lived through with other clients in similar verticals, you know what I mean?

281 00:45:57.470 ⇒ 00:45:58.450 Gabriel Lam: Yeah.

282 00:45:58.450 ⇒ 00:46:10.989 Ian: But if it could kind of eventually, like, look into other client profiles to determine trends and stuff, that could be amazing, but I could also see it scrambling the information up and maybe being a problem, because…

283 00:46:11.010 ⇒ 00:46:13.190 Uttam Kumaran: It needs to be super black and white.

284 00:46:13.190 ⇒ 00:46:13.960 Gabriel Lam: Hmm.

285 00:46:14.550 ⇒ 00:46:33.260 Uttam Kumaran: I think, Gabe, so there’s definitely, like, something where I think for every single customer, you can… and this is sort of similar to what we did in the… on the real estate side, is, like, you need to understand their… what their tolerance is across different types of policies, or… or, like, parts of the, like, the forms, basically. So if Ian

286 00:46:33.350 ⇒ 00:46:40.760 Uttam Kumaran: he clearly articulated the stuff that he looks for. Our job is to enter that into the system prompts or somehow, which is, like.

287 00:46:40.760 ⇒ 00:46:41.300 Gabriel Lam: Yeah.

288 00:46:41.600 ⇒ 00:46:45.570 Uttam Kumaran: You basically are ref… you’re basically… the benefit here is actually not…

289 00:46:45.970 ⇒ 00:47:03.529 Uttam Kumaran: I think what Ian showed is, like, he actually doesn’t need help on coming up with how to do this. It’s actually just doing this faster, and replicating what he already does, right? So, I would consider this less of, like, a thought partner, but more about, hey, I do know my tolerances for different types of, like.

290 00:47:03.530 ⇒ 00:47:16.109 Uttam Kumaran: comparisons. If you see XYZ or something similar to that, it needs to go in red, this needs to go in yellow, this needs to go in green, right? And so I think… I always, when you talk about priority, I’m always a fan of, like.

291 00:47:16.130 ⇒ 00:47:24.979 Uttam Kumaran: Driving towards either, like, red flag, or good or bad, or, like, 3 levels of, like, this is horrible, this is, like.

292 00:47:25.010 ⇒ 00:47:28.619 Uttam Kumaran: this is, like, pretty bad, and this is, like, annoying.

293 00:47:28.620 ⇒ 00:47:29.230 Gabriel Lam: Hmm.

294 00:47:29.230 ⇒ 00:47:53.940 Uttam Kumaran: But I do think if you can think about it in a way where the reason why this type of work is not tuned for a software is most software companies will predetermine that user’s prioritization, and they won’t work with the customer to build a solution that is tuned to them, right? Like, a typical AI software will be like, cool, we built you an insurance comparison agent.

295 00:47:54.120 ⇒ 00:48:13.240 Uttam Kumaran: And you’ll never be able to put in what your agency cares about, right? And so the reason why we’re coming to the table and doing this as a service for people is part of our work is to actually gather, like, our onboarding is gathering what they care about. And not every insurance company is gonna say they care about what Ian says he cares about.

296 00:48:13.240 ⇒ 00:48:29.059 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s what makes… that’s why there is a market, you know? And so, it’s… we… we’re… I want you to drive, actually, somewhat away from a one-size-fits-all, in that the goal of this demo is to show that we can do these things.

297 00:48:29.060 ⇒ 00:48:47.329 Uttam Kumaran: But we are not selling, software. Like, we are selling a solution bespoke to Ian’s company, so it will require him to tell us those things that he cares about, it will require him to build this with us as the partner, and to get this adopted in his firm.

298 00:48:47.330 ⇒ 00:48:49.469 Uttam Kumaran: So, I think that’s sometimes…

299 00:48:49.470 ⇒ 00:48:53.719 Uttam Kumaran: kind of, like, what I wanted to just hear a little bit more about is, like, Ian, seeing this.

300 00:48:53.720 ⇒ 00:49:11.780 Uttam Kumaran: what could we do better if we were to go to an insurance company that is not our friend, that maybe is a little bit, like, risk-averse? Like, what would a demo look like that would, like, really blow them away? Should we do pre-work to get some of this stuff, so the demo is more bespoke?

301 00:49:11.890 ⇒ 00:49:22.139 Uttam Kumaran: is this enough? Like, these examples enough for people to just get their wheels turning? Like, and imagine we just have, like, 30 minutes, you know, to, like, to pitch folks on this.

302 00:49:22.350 ⇒ 00:49:23.950 Ian: I think, yeah, I mean…

303 00:49:24.400 ⇒ 00:49:30.379 Ian: it’s hard because I’m in this world, and, you know, we’ve been talking about this kind of stuff, so to me, it’s like, okay.

304 00:49:30.380 ⇒ 00:49:40.990 Uttam Kumaran: No, think about someone who, like, doesn’t want to pick up my call. Somehow, I convince them to take our phone call. They’re off video, they’re on their phone. Like, the worst type of person.

305 00:49:41.250 ⇒ 00:49:48.469 Uttam Kumaran: I want to think about convincing them, because I’m not worried about convincing you or folks like you. I feel like we kind of got that in the bag.

306 00:49:48.630 ⇒ 00:49:59.559 Uttam Kumaran: But if we’re able to… but those are the types of people that, like, if I was to ask you, hey, let’s… okay, we have a bunch of demos, let’s go try to sell this together.

307 00:49:59.920 ⇒ 00:50:03.540 Uttam Kumaran: I want to make sure that this is so, so, so crisp.

308 00:50:03.760 ⇒ 00:50:08.569 Uttam Kumaran: That it’s almost like, holy shit, like, what am I doing?

309 00:50:08.810 ⇒ 00:50:12.190 Ian: Like, what am I doing not working with these guys? You know?

310 00:50:12.560 ⇒ 00:50:16.799 Ian: I think the fact that it feels like it’s, like, a concierge service.

311 00:50:16.800 ⇒ 00:50:17.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

312 00:50:17.440 ⇒ 00:50:22.080 Ian: as opposed to a SaaS product that already is just, like, it’s…

313 00:50:22.240 ⇒ 00:50:26.009 Ian: It’s built the way it’s built, and it’s a plug-and-play thing, you download…

314 00:50:26.010 ⇒ 00:50:29.039 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe we should say that up front, or we should hammer that up front.

315 00:50:29.240 ⇒ 00:50:31.750 Ian: Yeah, it’s like a concierge custom…

316 00:50:31.920 ⇒ 00:50:51.760 Ian: software solution that basically creates this, like, all-seeing eye in your agency, and creates a client profile where you can dump everything you have, all documents, all conversational data, all meeting data, into… in historical documents, like, into a client profile, which then

317 00:50:52.070 ⇒ 00:51:04.249 Ian: Basically, and over time, it allows, like, each profile to learn about the client on a deeper level than you would, even as, like, the point… the main point of contact, the agent, the person that they trust, like…

318 00:51:04.580 ⇒ 00:51:09.839 Ian: it… it just sup… I feel like that whole… that whole thing there, and then to be able to be…

319 00:51:10.500 ⇒ 00:51:16.090 Ian: not only reactive, but proactive in the data, like… like, you could get, like.

320 00:51:16.400 ⇒ 00:51:31.819 Ian: you know, quarterly snapshots of the client profile delivered to you to then send to your client to make them realize, yo, like, these guys care about me. Like, they’re not just reaching out once a year on renewal time, saying, hey, you’re kind of fucked, you’re paying 20% more this year, and

321 00:51:32.080 ⇒ 00:51:40.759 Ian: please stay with us, you know, please, like, we’re giving you 3 days before the renewal to make a decision, so you’re kind of stuck regardless. You know, like, that’s the… that’s the industry norm, like…

322 00:51:41.070 ⇒ 00:51:44.919 Ian: There’s no… Proactive, like, hey, we noticed that

323 00:51:45.570 ⇒ 00:52:01.430 Ian: I don’t know, like, like, through check-ins or through discussion, like, there may be some changes here, here’s how it could affect you, I think it might be worth, you know, notifying the carrier ahead of renewal, blah blah blah, like, like, just… just pro… true proof of proactive

324 00:52:01.660 ⇒ 00:52:02.950 Ian: value.

325 00:52:03.900 ⇒ 00:52:12.099 Ian: could be added to this to also, like, wow somebody, you know? Like, less… like, because there’s always renewal workflows that are very manual.

326 00:52:12.100 ⇒ 00:52:12.620 Uttam Kumaran: Right.

327 00:52:12.620 ⇒ 00:52:25.489 Ian: And I think with… with having these client profiles with all of this data in there, and it being so capable of pulling all this information and giving insight on these clients, like, I think some sort of an added, like.

328 00:52:26.410 ⇒ 00:52:38.769 Ian: reporting, like, process, or, like, pre-renewal, 90-60, 30-day renewal process that almost automates the entire conversation with the client. Not only just, like…

329 00:52:39.440 ⇒ 00:52:58.929 Ian: okay, now I don’t have to do this shit, but more so, like, wow, like, it truly understands their trends and what their business has been doing since we’ve managed their program for them, and it shows the client, like, wow, they’re doing a deep dive on my business, I’m being… there’s data being revealed here that my CPA doesn’t even understand, or, like.

330 00:52:58.930 ⇒ 00:53:05.180 Ian: you know, if they have a CPA or, like, whatever, it’s like, that kind of stuff, I think, drives true…

331 00:53:05.840 ⇒ 00:53:14.310 Ian: like, builds further on the relationship and won’t have them go shop for someone else, or, you know, even think about it. Like, they don’t…

332 00:53:14.420 ⇒ 00:53:24.639 Ian: it’ll make them realize that that premium and price is definitely secondary when they see that kind of value add, and true, like, care, and proactivity, so…

333 00:53:25.020 ⇒ 00:53:25.640 Ian: I think…

334 00:53:25.640 ⇒ 00:53:31.050 Uttam Kumaran: So I think it’s, like, three… it’s, like, three phases, Gabe. Maybe, like, we lead with the table stakes, which is, like.

335 00:53:31.490 ⇒ 00:53:37.060 Uttam Kumaran: who we are, why this is not software, and I think continuing to…

336 00:53:37.390 ⇒ 00:53:45.289 Uttam Kumaran: one thing I talk to a lot of my marketing friends is, like, finding the enemy, right? Like, in our… with our business, who do I always shit on is Big Four, right?

337 00:53:45.940 ⇒ 00:53:55.530 Uttam Kumaran: finding… they don’t know us, but they do know them, and they do know why they suck, right? So, maybe hitting on, like, the fact that we’re not a software vendor, and why… why that’s important. The second thing is, I think.

338 00:53:55.650 ⇒ 00:54:07.670 Uttam Kumaran: our demos here, we can tighten up, and I think they’re gonna be great. I think to what Ian said, there’s two demos that I think could be really, really transformative. One is the demo across all of your client information.

339 00:54:07.780 ⇒ 00:54:14.050 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think there is a… there’s a software that does it. I don’t think many insurance brokers are thinking about things like

340 00:54:14.310 ⇒ 00:54:25.729 Uttam Kumaran: Understanding the, like, the risk profile across my portfolio, understanding… Potential sales strategies, understanding, like.

341 00:54:26.020 ⇒ 00:54:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: which clients should I consider not working with, because always a headache, or they’re smaller, like…

342 00:54:31.900 ⇒ 00:54:37.560 Uttam Kumaran: thinking… and every… all of this, I think we should focus on growth, right? Just like our business on the data side.

343 00:54:37.570 ⇒ 00:54:57.499 Uttam Kumaran: I rarely go to… we rarely talk to people about cutting costs. It’s like, we do that, but it’s not what people are ever, like, psychologically to… it’s all about, like, how do you get more money out of your clients? How do you cut the clients that are, like, maybe not worth the squeeze? And how do you find more things to sell? For example, if Ian couldn’t go to people and say, look.

344 00:54:58.600 ⇒ 00:55:15.819 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve worked with 30, 40 clients. I can now provide you benchmarks about where you should be based on my client portfolio. It’s gonna be an extra $1,000 a month to have access to my monthly benchmark report. And guess what the benchmark report is? He just, like, asks… he just asks the agent to build the fucking report.

345 00:55:15.820 ⇒ 00:55:23.939 Uttam Kumaran: Literally. And shipped a PDF, and he’s like, hey, here’s the 2025 March, like, construction, insurance, whatever, report.

346 00:55:23.940 ⇒ 00:55:40.789 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, I’m… we have another client that this is what they do. They said they have humans doing this. And so, that’s one op… so I think showing that, which is the chat over all your shit. And then the last piece is the proactive. Like, if we can do some type of demo of an agent, like.

347 00:55:40.800 ⇒ 00:55:46.679 Uttam Kumaran: sending Ian an email, which is like, hey, here’s, like, a weekly update on, like.

348 00:55:46.720 ⇒ 00:55:53.760 Uttam Kumaran: what’s going on? Here’s, like, the monthly update on, like, what you should pay attention to in your practice, if you want to go deeper, like.

349 00:55:53.860 ⇒ 00:56:04.440 Uttam Kumaran: something that’s more… more on the proactive side, whether it is that renewal thing, and the renewal email actually is, like, super, super comprehensive, so that Ian’s not having to build that himself.

350 00:56:04.840 ⇒ 00:56:06.360 Uttam Kumaran: like, I do think that

351 00:56:06.460 ⇒ 00:56:25.280 Uttam Kumaran: it’s… I’ll show you a chart later, but it’s sort of moving to, like, Ian is the bottleneck as he interacts with this, to moving it to, like, the agent is starting to work for him without him having to, like, think. And I think if we were able to hit all those angles, and then save 15 minutes for quite… like, I think it’ll be killer.

352 00:56:25.510 ⇒ 00:56:26.030 Ian: Yeah.

353 00:56:26.030 ⇒ 00:56:26.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

354 00:56:27.410 ⇒ 00:56:40.210 Ian: I… and I think, like, that benchmark or report, like, just being able to interact with this agent that understands my entire book of business, that’s just incredible value there from

355 00:56:40.250 ⇒ 00:56:49.550 Ian: you know, for stuff I want to share with the clients, or stuff I don’t want to share with them, it’s just, like, ages insight, and then on top of that, though, the benchmarking, or the, you know…

356 00:56:49.640 ⇒ 00:56:59.009 Ian: Quarterly review of the… for… on a by-client basis is just so awesome, too, because you can just interact with it and… and deliver

357 00:56:59.310 ⇒ 00:57:04.699 Ian: You know, quarterly updates to your client, and you know, like, it understands trends, it understands…

358 00:57:04.700 ⇒ 00:57:21.019 Ian: carrier appetite, if you have upload carrier appetites that, like, those change month to month, day to day, and you get updates from carriers sent to our email, like, that’s a whole other thing. It could use that to cross-reference the programs that exist for clients and say, hey, Ian,

359 00:57:21.020 ⇒ 00:57:26.439 Ian: you know, Kinzale’s now offering a good GL product here, and they have a market appetite fit for

360 00:57:26.440 ⇒ 00:57:40.639 Ian: your client ABC Construction, it might be worth checking them out at renewal, or submitting an application to see if there’s competitive pricing or terms there. You know, agency insights, but also the stuff you can deliver to the clients that help them realize

361 00:57:40.640 ⇒ 00:57:47.530 Ian: wow, these people really understand stuff, and they’re giving me insight on things that I don’t even… I could never even imagine.

362 00:57:47.640 ⇒ 00:57:48.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

363 00:57:48.550 ⇒ 00:57:53.540 Ian: Like, that’s a value add there, too. Like, whether it’s a renewal.

364 00:57:53.540 ⇒ 00:57:59.720 Uttam Kumaran: thing that happens autonomously, or it’s like a… if they want to pay for additional risk management insight on their.

365 00:57:59.740 ⇒ 00:58:05.199 Ian: on their, business, like, that’s a… that’s a subscription right there, or an add-on, like…

366 00:58:05.780 ⇒ 00:58:12.660 Ian: I think there’s a lot of ways to go with it, but… but I like that you came with these three, kind of, like.

367 00:58:13.200 ⇒ 00:58:20.090 Ian: poor demos, and, like, I think there… there’s definitely room for more, but also, it’s just… it’s definitely…

368 00:58:20.300 ⇒ 00:58:24.450 Ian: it’s different from all the demos I’ve sat through, where it’s like, here’s our SaaS product.

369 00:58:24.700 ⇒ 00:58:34.229 Ian: or here’s our, you know, whatever, this portal, and you just use it as it is. It’s like a plug-and-play for any of our customers, whereas this is, like, totally concierge.

370 00:58:35.060 ⇒ 00:58:37.589 Ian: you know… It’s, it’s, it’s…

371 00:58:37.590 ⇒ 00:58:51.680 Uttam Kumaran: No, and of course we’re gonna price appropriately. Like, I’m not gonna go after people that don’t see the benefit and don’t want to be in this. Like, if you want that, go there. This is what, like, a lot of people sometimes forget about us, is like, they think that we’re doing this, and then we’re like.

372 00:58:51.940 ⇒ 00:59:03.009 Uttam Kumaran: okay, cool, and I’m like, no, no, no, but the reason it’s better is because it does cost more. But for the firms where they’re like, holy shit, like, we need a partner, not just a software tool with access to, like, a…

373 00:59:03.310 ⇒ 00:59:07.790 Uttam Kumaran: a, like, a support, like, Zendesk form? Like, this is it.

374 00:59:07.960 ⇒ 00:59:15.200 Uttam Kumaran: And so I… I could totally see this demo, Gabe, coming… being wrapped up into just a really concise, like, deck, where…

375 00:59:15.520 ⇒ 00:59:18.640 Uttam Kumaran: We basically explain who we are.

376 00:59:19.030 ⇒ 00:59:37.350 Uttam Kumaran: why we’re coming into this… I… I mean, again, like, Ian, like, I’m expecting that you’re with us there, basically, and we’re just selling these, and, like, you know, I think that’s, like, that’s where, if we were to go into it, basically, like, here’s why we decided to do this, here’s all the expertise that we’re bringing, and we do the demo, and then it’s, like.

377 00:59:38.180 ⇒ 00:59:54.269 Uttam Kumaran: we basically highlight the core examples of use cases, do the demo, talk about, like, what working with us could look like, hit pricing, and, like, buy. And so, all in my world, everything is about getting

378 00:59:54.380 ⇒ 00:59:58.040 Uttam Kumaran: to the… Decision to buy.

379 00:59:58.130 ⇒ 01:00:05.750 Uttam Kumaran: and the verbal yes in, like, 2 meetings. And so, first meeting is really focused on showing the value, building a relationship with us.

380 01:00:05.820 ⇒ 01:00:22.179 Uttam Kumaran: The second meeting is, like, I need my head of IT there, I need blah blah blah, those are check-off-the-box meetings, and then they work with us. So we’ve gone there on the data side, right? On the data side, we are at two meetings close, most… for the most part. And this… this is how I want us to think about, like.

381 01:00:22.720 ⇒ 01:00:24.499 Uttam Kumaran: Driving this, like.

382 01:00:24.740 ⇒ 01:00:31.949 Uttam Kumaran: driving from the demos to the ultimate, like, sales conversation. And then naturally, like, once we get to implementation.

383 01:00:32.470 ⇒ 01:00:34.440 Uttam Kumaran: You know, that’s where we loop in our team, and…

384 01:00:34.890 ⇒ 01:00:36.170 Ian: Bang this out.

385 01:00:36.460 ⇒ 01:00:42.730 Ian: I’m curious to… I mean, yeah, no, that all… I think it… I think it would really work, I just,

386 01:00:43.600 ⇒ 01:00:58.750 Ian: I just started thinking about the API, like, integration piece for, you know, most… most agencies, 99% of them are using, you know, some form of an agency management system, like, one of the… there’s, like, 5 or 6 big ones, like…

387 01:00:59.090 ⇒ 01:01:01.119 Ian: Would the plan be to integrate

388 01:01:01.550 ⇒ 01:01:05.159 Ian: Directly to those, so that all that client data, all the data that lives in.

389 01:01:05.160 ⇒ 01:01:09.960 Uttam Kumaran: So we would build that for them. So, again, that’s, like, Whoever you’re on.

390 01:01:10.130 ⇒ 01:01:17.140 Uttam Kumaran: as part of our, like, initial discovery is, like, do they have an API? Can we use it? And then can we build it into this thing?

391 01:01:17.140 ⇒ 01:01:17.630 Ian: Yeah, okay.

392 01:01:17.630 ⇒ 01:01:36.239 Uttam Kumaran: So we wouldn’t… so at the outset, we wouldn’t come out of the box with that, because it is unique. There’s a lot of AMS, so… But, like, to tell you about how we work is, once we do things 2 or 3 times, then on our side, we just start to, like.

393 01:01:36.990 ⇒ 01:01:44.119 Uttam Kumaran: have internal playbooks on how to do it, but we… and then… but we never sell it as, like… we’re not selling it

394 01:01:44.590 ⇒ 01:01:53.620 Uttam Kumaran: in a software package sort of way, where it’s like, it comes with these 5 integrations, I’ll build you whatever you need to get… to accomplish this outcome.

395 01:01:53.620 ⇒ 01:01:56.090 Ian: Got it, got it. I do like that that’s a different.

396 01:01:56.090 ⇒ 01:01:56.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

397 01:01:56.720 ⇒ 01:01:58.669 Ian: From what you commonly see, like…

398 01:01:58.880 ⇒ 01:02:07.710 Ian: it’s always like, oh, here’s… what integrations does this tool have? And then you see all the logos. It’s like, oh, we have integrations with these four players. It’s like, okay, well, what about if you don’t? It’s like.

399 01:02:07.710 ⇒ 01:02:24.499 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m like, no matter what, even if all your shit is in email, PDFs, or if you’re using that, whatever it is, we will build this on top of that, and this will be unique to you. This is your software. Like, we don’t own any of the software we build. All we own is the expertise and the techniques.

400 01:02:24.620 ⇒ 01:02:27.800 Uttam Kumaran: And then we… that’s what we get better at. Like, contextual…

401 01:02:28.420 ⇒ 01:02:44.530 Uttam Kumaran: their… their core product is the back end of all of this. Like, you wouldn’t be logging into this. You would log into… it could look like this, it could look anything different, right? So all their company does is supply all the APIs and SDKs to build an experience like this.

402 01:02:44.970 ⇒ 01:02:55.170 Uttam Kumaran: And so we would build… we would take from this the things that you like, and build it into, like, basically an internal piece of software.

403 01:02:56.240 ⇒ 01:02:56.980 Ian: Interesting.

404 01:02:56.980 ⇒ 01:02:58.110 Uttam Kumaran: Just works for you.

405 01:02:58.860 ⇒ 01:03:04.439 Ian: Yeah, that’s really cool, because I’ve never heard anything like that from any of the other, you know.

406 01:03:04.640 ⇒ 01:03:12.050 Ian: solutions for agents out there, and, like, a lot of them are just one-off Band-Aid solutions, like, you know, the Wonder Write thing, or this, or whatever, like.

407 01:03:12.050 ⇒ 01:03:12.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

408 01:03:12.630 ⇒ 01:03:16.130 Ian: e-signature, it doesn’t matter, but, like, this is so much more…

409 01:03:16.830 ⇒ 01:03:21.900 Ian: Comprehensive and just… just custom, like… Yeah.

410 01:03:22.250 ⇒ 01:03:23.459 Ian: That’s really cool.

411 01:03:24.210 ⇒ 01:03:38.430 Ian: I think being able to integrate with their email system is obviously huge, too, because you could just have the AI understand, oh, this is this client based on the email that’s in the client profile, or recognizing names of the owners, or email signatures, and then

412 01:03:38.570 ⇒ 01:03:52.550 Ian: putting that into… you know, you’re just constantly increasing the intelligence of every client profile, it just… I mean, that’s… that’s creating a super agent. Like, not a super agent AI sense, yes, but also, like, a super…

413 01:03:53.040 ⇒ 01:03:53.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

414 01:03:53.550 ⇒ 01:03:54.480 Ian: Insurance is…

415 01:03:54.480 ⇒ 01:03:59.039 Uttam Kumaran: compounds over time. As we add more data, and this is why, it’s like, again, we…

416 01:03:59.260 ⇒ 01:04:04.759 Uttam Kumaran: If you were to buy a software, you… after 60 days, you’re using all the features, they’re not building…

417 01:04:05.070 ⇒ 01:04:06.990 Uttam Kumaran: Typically not building more features.

418 01:04:07.410 ⇒ 01:04:10.330 Uttam Kumaran: After 60 days, we’re, like, we’re just continuing to build shit.

419 01:04:10.330 ⇒ 01:04:12.219 Gabriel Lam: It’s like maintenance at that point, sort of.

420 01:04:12.220 ⇒ 01:04:13.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

421 01:04:13.920 ⇒ 01:04:18.129 Ian: And so those software solutions that exist, you know, they’re built the way they’re built.

422 01:04:18.620 ⇒ 01:04:23.820 Ian: they’re technically… like, yeah, they’re… it’s all prompt-based, right? Like, they’re only… the policy comparison.

423 01:04:23.820 ⇒ 01:04:41.779 Uttam Kumaran: No, dude, so what they’re doing under the hood is they, they’ll build a… they’re building this, and then they’re like, cool, this is good, let’s build auth, let’s build a backend, let’s build a landing page, let’s wrap it into a piece of software that people can come in, log in, and get this, upload their documents.

424 01:04:41.920 ⇒ 01:04:58.210 Uttam Kumaran: And yes, an Ian may say, well, I don’t like the way your prompt is crafted, because I don’t like the way you prioritized, can I modify that? And they’re like, oh, okay, yeah, like, modification of, like, tolerance is coming up in our, like, Q4 roadmap.

425 01:04:58.380 ⇒ 01:05:03.480 Ian: Right. And then you get put in a backlog of things. And what… why do they do that? Because software, they want to…

426 01:05:03.480 ⇒ 01:05:19.030 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, dude, it’s like, imagine I build… I’m not… I’m trying to even understand, like, how I can do this analogy. Like, imagine you just built, like, these headphones, and I can just literally now pump these out for, like.

427 01:05:19.120 ⇒ 01:05:24.800 Uttam Kumaran: 10 cents, sell it to you for a dollar, and you don’t get any features that you like, right?

428 01:05:24.800 ⇒ 01:05:25.399 Ian: clear the way…

429 01:05:25.400 ⇒ 01:05:35.010 Uttam Kumaran: You’re a big-ass company, and you can afford to spend on features you like, and you’re like, guys, just build it for us, and they’re like, no, no, no, we have to build this for everybody, if we’re gonna build anything.

430 01:05:35.130 ⇒ 01:05:42.649 Uttam Kumaran: We don’t… I don’t think that way at all. I work for you, I build what you need, when you need it. Yes, it has an… is there… is there, like…

431 01:05:42.970 ⇒ 01:05:47.199 Uttam Kumaran: Probably, like, a much bigger price difference? 100%.

432 01:05:47.410 ⇒ 01:05:57.999 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m… we’re not the same. Like, I’m building you a one-of-one car. There’s no… this car doesn’t exist on the market, and you shouldn’t have fear, like, what I’m taking…

433 01:05:58.150 ⇒ 01:06:03.020 Uttam Kumaran: is I’m taking the techniques to build one-on-one cars faster.

434 01:06:03.270 ⇒ 01:06:08.639 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s what my team does. But, like, I’m not in the business of… I’m not building

435 01:06:08.760 ⇒ 01:06:11.659 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not building a car by company. At all.

436 01:06:11.660 ⇒ 01:06:22.790 Ian: Got it. Yeah. Yeah, you’re building a freaking Rolls-Royce, you know, handcrafted, piece by piece. I mean, even that’s not the best analogy, because they build it the way they build it. If somebody wants.

437 01:06:22.790 ⇒ 01:06:38.589 Uttam Kumaran: But see, it’s also an insurance… because you have all of these different integrations, you have all the different insurance companies, the way they work internally, there is not one headphone that will work for most people. And so what are they doing? They’re buying… they’re buying these things off the shelf, and they’re not perfect.

438 01:06:38.810 ⇒ 01:06:39.950 Uttam Kumaran: And…

439 01:06:40.170 ⇒ 01:06:52.580 Uttam Kumaran: okay, instead of buying all that, you should start building internally. So as you grow and scale, the biggest companies you go to are building software themselves, and it’s getting cheaper and easier and faster to do that, right? So.

440 01:06:52.940 ⇒ 01:06:55.540 Uttam Kumaran: That’s, like, kind of, like, where… where we’re coming in.

441 01:06:55.770 ⇒ 01:06:57.280 Ian: And that’s the problem.

442 01:06:57.280 ⇒ 01:07:04.669 Uttam Kumaran: with majority of these solutions is, like, they don’t speak with the tools that the agency’s had for 12 years, or 14 years, or… Yes.

443 01:07:04.740 ⇒ 01:07:17.109 Ian: or, you know, no one is at ground level. Like, me, I’m lucky. At Valora, it’s like, okay, I’ve hand-selected one or two that I’m starting with, and it’s like, okay, cool. Not everyone’s at that position, nor…

444 01:07:17.380 ⇒ 01:07:24.170 Ian: I mean, yeah, like, that’s not… it’s like you’re almost… you’re almost giving the capability to an existing

445 01:07:24.760 ⇒ 01:07:29.619 Ian: agency that’s doing business, that has clients. You’re giving them the ability to

446 01:07:29.880 ⇒ 01:07:36.299 Ian: Act as if it’s day one, right at the starting point for the entire business, again, to build out this internal

447 01:07:36.560 ⇒ 01:07:43.639 Ian: system to help them be more efficient and increase revenue, and yeah, that’s… I think that’s the thing, is like.

448 01:07:43.940 ⇒ 01:07:45.790 Ian: You kind of lead with the…

449 01:07:47.150 ⇒ 01:07:49.920 Ian: It’s a concierge approach, and, you know.

450 01:07:50.040 ⇒ 01:08:01.539 Ian: you’re a blown-up agency already, you’re doing business, you don’t have the luxury of being able to go select all these random tools and hope they’ll talk to each other, or find some Zapier wizard to make it all work.

451 01:08:01.890 ⇒ 01:08:04.369 Ian: You want someone who can truly, like.

452 01:08:04.690 ⇒ 01:08:08.500 Ian: Like, create a custom solution for you based on where you are at today.

453 01:08:08.870 ⇒ 01:08:11.270 Ian: Yeah. No one else is doing that.

454 01:08:11.860 ⇒ 01:08:12.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

455 01:08:12.760 ⇒ 01:08:14.170 Ian: Hell yeah, I love that.

456 01:08:15.360 ⇒ 01:08:16.930 Uttam Kumaran: Sick. I have to jump?

457 01:08:17.220 ⇒ 01:08:24.269 Uttam Kumaran: But let’s… maybe, Gabe, I’ll let you kind of think about, like, following up, and I think we… we have a clear path, you know, so…

458 01:08:24.279 ⇒ 01:08:24.749 Gabriel Lam: Sure.

459 01:08:24.750 ⇒ 01:08:25.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

460 01:08:25.600 ⇒ 01:08:27.790 Uttam Kumaran: So I think, Ian, probably next, we’ll have

461 01:08:27.960 ⇒ 01:08:34.259 Uttam Kumaran: probably a more polished version where we can run through, and then I want to drive us towards, like, how do we start to…

462 01:08:34.540 ⇒ 01:08:43.580 Uttam Kumaran: get meetings booked and start to pitch this. I mean, of course, like, I want you to consider using this, and, like, I don’t… I mean, we’ll land on something, but I think you should

463 01:08:43.710 ⇒ 01:08:51.009 Uttam Kumaran: you using this is gonna help us accelerate, and then in exchange, if you’re like, look, I can make intros, and we can go do some business together.

464 01:08:51.390 ⇒ 01:08:53.470 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that’s what we should do, you know?

465 01:08:53.479 ⇒ 01:08:58.869 Ian: I have, like, real data if you guys want, like, actual policies, actual client… like, I…

466 01:08:58.870 ⇒ 01:09:01.070 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s what I told Gabe. I was like…

467 01:09:01.069 ⇒ 01:09:03.419 Gabriel Lam: I was like, that’s the key.

468 01:09:03.420 ⇒ 01:09:09.609 Uttam Kumaran: I was like, well, then what we should do is, like, we should… let’s… let’s chat, Ian. I want… we wanted to make sure we can sign something.

469 01:09:09.640 ⇒ 01:09:22.419 Uttam Kumaran: And then we can build something for you, and then I just want to make sure on our side that you’re like, cool, I can… you’re comfortable also of, like, coming and doing… like, helping us sell some of this. And of course, we’ll split something on that, too.

470 01:09:22.450 ⇒ 01:09:30.759 Uttam Kumaran: And make sure you’re comfortable that, like, we’re not… if you’re like, don’t… I don’t want to sell to anyone in construction in this, then that’s fine, too. We can go after other people, but…

471 01:09:31.319 ⇒ 01:09:40.139 Uttam Kumaran: we… I do think that having you in those conversations as, like, hey, he’s, like, our internal subject matter expert, and there’s a reason why we’re even here.

472 01:09:40.140 ⇒ 01:09:53.709 Uttam Kumaran: And, of course, like, we’re not asking you to work the deal, but it’s just gonna make it so much more compelling for us to… for people to want to work with us. And when we come in, this is just one of a slew of things we want to go help these insurance companies with, like…

473 01:09:53.899 ⇒ 01:10:03.290 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because we also do the data work, we’re doing also, like, more strategic work, on the finance side, so for us, it’s just a matter of getting in, and then we, like.

474 01:10:03.750 ⇒ 01:10:06.289 Uttam Kumaran: Just, like, expand from there, so…

475 01:10:06.750 ⇒ 01:10:11.840 Ian: I agree. I did want to update you, like, that’s why I hit you up last night, they…

476 01:10:11.840 ⇒ 01:10:12.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

477 01:10:12.570 ⇒ 01:10:16.879 Ian: People are bringing me out to Silicon Valley, like, January, first week in January.

478 01:10:16.880 ⇒ 01:10:17.670 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

479 01:10:18.140 ⇒ 01:10:19.180 Ian: Sick.

480 01:10:19.910 ⇒ 01:10:24.919 Ian: got to $150 an hour, it wasn’t… Yeah. But, you know, it’s like, that’s just what.

481 01:10:24.920 ⇒ 01:10:25.949 Uttam Kumaran: What do they say?

482 01:10:25.950 ⇒ 01:10:30.709 Ian: They offered that, they were just… they’re super stoked, they wanted me to bring, like, stuff to the table, they want me to.

483 01:10:30.710 ⇒ 01:10:34.250 Uttam Kumaran: What’d I tell you, dude? What’d I tell you? Good.

484 01:10:34.830 ⇒ 01:10:49.860 Ian: But it’s only for a couple-day lock-in. It’s only for, like, they want to do a couple days lock-in, full days, and then go from there. And I’m like, well, I don’t… I hope I don’t sell myself, you know, make a couple grand, and then, like, they never want to, like, keep me involved, you know what I mean?

485 01:10:49.860 ⇒ 01:10:56.960 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, but again, it… maybe I’ll text you, I have some thoughts, but like, yeah, I mean, it depends on what you want, but at least you have a floor.

486 01:10:57.100 ⇒ 01:11:06.419 Uttam Kumaran: And you can always go from there, and the problem in our business is because we’ve changed so fast, I undersold, and then when we go expand.

487 01:11:06.860 ⇒ 01:11:16.989 Uttam Kumaran: you can’t go from, like… in our… my world, I can’t go from, like, 15K to $50K a month really easily. But, am I going to new clients and being like, let’s start a 40K? Yes.

488 01:11:17.160 ⇒ 01:11:27.690 Uttam Kumaran: Am I selling anything different? No. But it’s just that we are moving upstream, and we’re much more organized on what we can do and why the impact is.

489 01:11:27.900 ⇒ 01:11:33.220 Uttam Kumaran: before, I wasn’t as organized, and so in order to compensate for the disorganization, we underpriced

490 01:11:33.680 ⇒ 01:11:45.259 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m not… but, like, now we’re start… so, this is just the world, dude. You just, you know, you just figure it out as you go. The next time someone calls you, you say $200, and then you say 250, and then you keep going until…

491 01:11:45.450 ⇒ 01:11:49.200 Uttam Kumaran: You just keep go- you basically just keep going. Yeah.

492 01:11:49.200 ⇒ 01:11:56.489 Ian: They’re the ones that named the price, you know, they named the 150, and I was just like, I haven’t responded yet, I’m just like, well, shit. It’s kind of where I was thinking.

493 01:11:56.490 ⇒ 01:11:57.260 Uttam Kumaran: 100.

494 01:11:59.240 ⇒ 01:12:00.210 Ian: You don’t think that would, like.

495 01:12:00.660 ⇒ 01:12:03.960 Ian: rub them the wrong way, and then they’re like, oh, what the fuck, like…

496 01:12:03.960 ⇒ 01:12:09.019 Uttam Kumaran: No, you say my standard rates are $200, I c an d o$ 175 for you guys, because I like you guys.

497 01:12:10.690 ⇒ 01:12:16.769 Uttam Kumaran: You’re the salesperson, bro, who am I? I know, but it’s like… Don’t be nervous!

498 01:12:16.770 ⇒ 01:12:18.619 Ian: I would want to be involved on a.

499 01:12:18.620 ⇒ 01:12:27.080 Uttam Kumaran: Then just take the 150, bro, then who gives a fuck, you know? If you do like these people, then don’t negotiate. They want an MVP by the time I’m…

500 01:12:27.160 ⇒ 01:12:29.110 Ian: Literally, like, that first week.

501 01:12:29.830 ⇒ 01:12:38.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean… I mean, dude, there’s… like, with friends, I don’t… I don’t negotiate, like, I’m like, whatever we can do, we can do. But when it comes to, like, now, I’m going… if we’re going to the market.

502 01:12:39.770 ⇒ 01:12:43.359 Uttam Kumaran: It’s… I always… I mean, it’s like, what, you go to the store, and they’re like.

503 01:12:43.480 ⇒ 01:12:49.269 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this was 20 bucks, but it’s on sale for $12. You know they just marked it to 20 the fuckin’ last week.

504 01:12:49.270 ⇒ 01:12:49.830 Ian: Oh, that’s true.

505 01:12:49.830 ⇒ 01:12:58.299 Uttam Kumaran: you know they made it for 30 cents. It’s like… it’s just business, you know? They val… but also, it’s your confidence. If you feel like…

506 01:12:58.440 ⇒ 01:13:03.670 Uttam Kumaran: You’re like, fuck it, they got 150 on the next… like, there’s some times where I… we used to beg for, like, 100.

507 01:13:03.960 ⇒ 01:13:09.239 Uttam Kumaran: And… there was times where I’m like, I’ll just have to take whatever I can get.

508 01:13:10.200 ⇒ 01:13:18.759 Uttam Kumaran: But… but it’s like what… it’s like a… it’s that quote… I don’t know who said this, but it says, like, yes… remember I always said, yesterday’s price is not today’s price, you know, so…

509 01:13:19.520 ⇒ 01:13:20.590 Ian: Yeah, no.

510 01:13:20.590 ⇒ 01:13:24.609 Uttam Kumaran: So, maybe just do the… do the first one, and then go from there.

511 01:13:24.610 ⇒ 01:13:29.799 Ian: Yeah, if they want to keep the contract going, be like, alright, well, yeah, that was an intro rate, now we’re gonna bump it up.

512 01:13:30.270 ⇒ 01:13:35.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but dude, but who else… but what… yeah, if they want you to continue, then of course.

513 01:13:35.780 ⇒ 01:13:49.239 Ian: Of course, you’re like, this is what I need to feel comfortable. You know how much other opportunity I’m turning down? Yeah, I don’t think they’ll be able to get out of me what they need to truly… this is a multi-year thing, and like, like, yeah, I’m gonna give them a roadmap. They don’t know insurance for shit.

514 01:13:49.530 ⇒ 01:13:50.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

515 01:13:50.600 ⇒ 01:13:58.260 Ian: they’re… they’re… yeah, I don’t know, dude, but I… I just want to let you know that, too, because it feels… it’s so interesting. It started with this, this pops up.

516 01:13:58.260 ⇒ 01:14:08.849 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll see it, dude, you have this thing with us, you have that thing, you have your own thing, you have T-Sib, like… that’s good, you want to have these options. Like, you’re lucky to have these, don’t get overwhelmed by that.

517 01:14:09.290 ⇒ 01:14:10.249 Ian: There is no problem.

518 01:14:10.250 ⇒ 01:14:10.980 Uttam Kumaran: But…

519 01:14:11.810 ⇒ 01:14:18.829 Uttam Kumaran: I’m always a fan of do one and go a million miles an hour. When I started this company, I had the same thing, like.

520 01:14:19.180 ⇒ 01:14:27.019 Uttam Kumaran: people wanted to hire me back, I was doing this thing, I was still working as a contractor with some clients that are like, why don’t you just work with us?

521 01:14:27.320 ⇒ 01:14:41.999 Uttam Kumaran: So I just… I still balance it until you’re at the point where, like, nothing gets big without you going, like, one… So then I started saying, unless it’s working with Brainforge, you cannot work with me. There’s no me anymore. And that is continuing to become more of the story.

522 01:14:42.010 ⇒ 01:14:52.820 Uttam Kumaran: I… there… I am not… I am an employee of this company. In order to engage with me, you have to engage with the company. There’s no… there’s no other way. Yeah. So it’s only through this, you know?

523 01:14:53.020 ⇒ 01:14:59.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and there’s… even clients come to us, and they want to hire our people. They’re like, hey, can we just bring on this person full-time?

524 01:14:59.960 ⇒ 01:15:01.039 Uttam Kumaran: I said, no.

525 01:15:01.200 ⇒ 01:15:02.120 Ian: Oh.

526 01:15:02.120 ⇒ 01:15:02.770 Uttam Kumaran: away.

527 01:15:03.490 ⇒ 01:15:07.769 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, what do you mean? Like, I’m already giving you… yeah, he, like, there’s no chance, but then…

528 01:15:08.440 ⇒ 01:15:15.829 Uttam Kumaran: immediately, because I know they’ll back-channel to them, I go and I said, look, we want to raise the stakes, and I want to give you a team.

529 01:15:17.550 ⇒ 01:15:21.630 Uttam Kumaran: There’s… come on, you can’t… you can’t do anything. There’s no competing.

530 01:15:21.630 ⇒ 01:15:22.310 Ian: Yeah.

531 01:15:22.310 ⇒ 01:15:27.120 Uttam Kumaran: You know? Like, they, they, they’re… like, Eden is doing that… I don’t know if you’ve met Zoron, Gabe, if you’re not.

532 01:15:27.120 ⇒ 01:15:29.699 Gabriel Lam: I have met, but not well, yeah.

533 01:15:29.700 ⇒ 01:15:48.719 Uttam Kumaran: super, super smart guy, and he works for Eden, and they… he’s working, like, 30, 40 hours for them. They’re like, can we just bring him on full-time? I told Robert no. I said, Zoran’s great, I want to bring him on to 3 clients, and give him 2 people to work directly for him. So he… and he… and I want to get him double what he’s making.

534 01:15:49.490 ⇒ 01:15:54.269 Uttam Kumaran: And he’s not… and also, this is a way chiller place than working there. There’s no way he wants to work.

535 01:15:54.660 ⇒ 01:15:56.529 Uttam Kumaran: You know, work there, so…

536 01:15:57.400 ⇒ 01:16:05.949 Ian: Well, cool, dude. Yeah, I really, always enjoy the conversations, and yeah, we should definitely chat before,

537 01:16:07.330 ⇒ 01:16:09.410 Ian: Before, the holidays.

538 01:16:09.730 ⇒ 01:16:11.549 Ian: Try to get a meal in or something.

539 01:16:11.950 ⇒ 01:16:12.720 Uttam Kumaran: Definitely.

540 01:16:14.070 ⇒ 01:16:14.790 Ian: Okay, guys.

541 01:16:15.100 ⇒ 01:16:15.609 Ian: Nice meeting.

542 01:16:15.610 ⇒ 01:16:18.200 Gabriel Lam: Alright, pleasure meeting you, hope to see you around. Thank you.

543 01:16:19.030 ⇒ 01:16:19.520 Ian: See ya.

544 01:16:19.520 ⇒ 01:16:20.580 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.

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