Meeting Title: Brainforge x Amplitude Date: 2025-12-18 Meeting participants: Holly Condos, Greg Stoutenburg, Uttam Kumaran, Hannah Wang, Hugo Pegley
WEBVTT
1 00:01:29.610 ⇒ 00:01:30.790 Holly Condos: Hey, Greg.
2 00:01:30.790 ⇒ 00:01:31.740 Greg Stoutenburg: Hello!
3 00:01:32.160 ⇒ 00:01:33.209 Holly Condos: How are you?
4 00:01:33.410 ⇒ 00:01:34.870 Greg Stoutenburg: I’m doing well, how are you?
5 00:01:35.060 ⇒ 00:01:35.810 Holly Condos: Good.
6 00:01:36.190 ⇒ 00:01:41.180 Greg Stoutenburg: I have a minute, I’ll put my light on here, so I don’t look like I’m just living in a shadow.
7 00:01:42.140 ⇒ 00:01:43.230 Holly Condos: No words.
8 00:01:43.670 ⇒ 00:01:46.319 Holly Condos: I got a new light, but I haven’t installed it yet.
9 00:01:47.530 ⇒ 00:01:49.500 Greg Stoutenburg: That is some light, there we go.
10 00:01:49.500 ⇒ 00:01:50.960 Holly Condos: That is a nice light.
11 00:01:51.290 ⇒ 00:01:57.380 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, that’s alright, 20 bucks on Amazon. One of them makes me look like a ghost, one of them makes me look red. This is basically skin color.
12 00:01:57.660 ⇒ 00:01:58.760 Greg Stoutenburg: Alright.
13 00:02:01.220 ⇒ 00:02:02.229 Greg Stoutenburg: Hey, Tom.
14 00:02:02.230 ⇒ 00:02:03.090 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
15 00:02:03.240 ⇒ 00:02:04.340 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
16 00:02:04.860 ⇒ 00:02:06.100 Greg Stoutenburg: Doing alright, how are you?
17 00:02:06.330 ⇒ 00:02:07.349 Uttam Kumaran: How did it go?
18 00:02:08.130 ⇒ 00:02:26.550 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I thought it went well, yeah. So, she had definitely dug in on the deck that I shared last week, and had some thoughts. I put a comment on this, but I was pretty happy to see. Then she showed me that a deck she prepared and shared internally, and, it included some of the slides that I put up.
19 00:02:26.550 ⇒ 00:02:26.980 Uttam Kumaran: Great!
20 00:02:26.980 ⇒ 00:02:28.410 Greg Stoutenburg: That’s always a good sign, right? That’s a good sign.
21 00:02:28.410 ⇒ 00:02:31.809 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes, that’s it, that’s it, that’s the ticket.
22 00:02:31.810 ⇒ 00:02:42.719 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, she was… yeah, she was engaged on the idea that, you know, on what I showed about users performing certain actions early, leading to just much better retention overall.
23 00:02:42.850 ⇒ 00:02:47.829 Greg Stoutenburg: And I prepared some other stuff for today that we went through. So, yeah, we’ll see what next steps look like.
24 00:02:47.830 ⇒ 00:02:48.310 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
25 00:02:48.310 ⇒ 00:02:48.829 Greg Stoutenburg: some interest.
26 00:02:48.830 ⇒ 00:02:49.460 Uttam Kumaran: Good.
27 00:02:49.460 ⇒ 00:02:51.939 Greg Stoutenburg: I feel like it’s always good that, like, we’re…
28 00:02:52.740 ⇒ 00:02:56.239 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve pivoted. This is the fifth, sort of, like.
29 00:02:56.970 ⇒ 00:03:01.209 Uttam Kumaran: Pivot we’ve tried, and so it looks like it’s getting into a good, better place.
30 00:03:01.350 ⇒ 00:03:03.860 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah. It’s funny, like, 3 weeks ago, I was like.
31 00:03:04.430 ⇒ 00:03:06.029 Uttam Kumaran: We’re done here, like, let’s just…
32 00:03:06.040 ⇒ 00:03:06.910 Greg Stoutenburg: Right.
33 00:03:06.910 ⇒ 00:03:18.270 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I don’t… what do I do? And it’s like, also, it was mainly Robert, and then we were both like, I don’t know, they’re not… they’re not being… they’re not receptive, so I’m glad, glad.
34 00:03:18.270 ⇒ 00:03:19.389 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, yeah, we’ll see what…
35 00:03:19.390 ⇒ 00:03:21.240 Holly Condos: Who did you talk to? Sorry.
36 00:03:22.340 ⇒ 00:03:24.180 Uttam Kumaran: It was, it was README.
37 00:03:25.060 ⇒ 00:03:26.040 Holly Condos: Oh, okay.
38 00:03:26.040 ⇒ 00:03:27.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. Hey, guys.
39 00:03:27.660 ⇒ 00:03:29.709 Hugo Pegley: Hey, what’s going on, everybody? How we doing?
40 00:03:29.710 ⇒ 00:03:31.260 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, great to meet you.
41 00:03:31.260 ⇒ 00:03:32.180 Hugo Pegley: Happy holidays!
42 00:03:33.090 ⇒ 00:03:34.140 Uttam Kumaran: Happy Holidays!
43 00:03:35.110 ⇒ 00:03:37.529 Hugo Pegley: The countdown now, right?
44 00:03:37.530 ⇒ 00:03:38.270 Uttam Kumaran: at?
45 00:03:38.270 ⇒ 00:03:47.890 Hugo Pegley: I’m in San Francisco, and so, I don’t know if any of you are on the East Coast. If you hear me complain about, you know, getting into the 40s, oh, it’s so cold here, cold as California winter.
46 00:03:47.890 ⇒ 00:04:00.290 Hugo Pegley: you’re probably gonna be shaking your head, because obviously it’s nothing. But for us, it’s been a chilly one. I actually like the cold weather, but my friend and my wife and, like, everyone else is hating it. I don’t mind it for now, but
47 00:04:00.290 ⇒ 00:04:03.720 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, it’s been a chilly one relative for us. Where are you guys based?
48 00:04:04.220 ⇒ 00:04:10.430 Uttam Kumaran: I’m in, I’m in Austin. I’ll actually be in the Bay Area tomorrow. I grew up in the East Bay.
49 00:04:10.640 ⇒ 00:04:11.849 Hugo Pegley: Oh, we’re in the East Bay.
50 00:04:11.850 ⇒ 00:04:12.860 Uttam Kumaran: In San Ramon?
51 00:04:13.360 ⇒ 00:04:16.309 Hugo Pegley: For sure, yeah, I grew up in, Burlingame, and I have, like.
52 00:04:16.310 ⇒ 00:04:16.670 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice.
53 00:04:16.670 ⇒ 00:04:18.010 Hugo Pegley: and uncles, and…
54 00:04:18.130 ⇒ 00:04:23.929 Uttam Kumaran: Like, Moraga, Orinda, like, I know that area decently. Not super well, but decently, so… Great.
55 00:04:24.100 ⇒ 00:04:27.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I’m in Austin now. It’s kind of, like, same Bay Area.
56 00:04:27.580 ⇒ 00:04:30.969 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of weather, like… 40s, 50s, but…
57 00:04:30.970 ⇒ 00:04:31.650 Hugo Pegley: Yeah.
58 00:04:31.650 ⇒ 00:04:32.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
59 00:04:33.390 ⇒ 00:04:35.000 Holly Condos: I’m in San Diego.
60 00:04:36.430 ⇒ 00:04:46.619 Hugo Pegley: I was just down there for, for a couple days, did, like, a road trip. My birthday was on Sunday, so we did a road trip with my wife through San Diego, and then, Carlsbad, and
61 00:04:46.620 ⇒ 00:04:59.309 Hugo Pegley: Nice. I went to Vegas after, you know, you guys have… you guys have got it nice down there. I played some golf over the weekend, it was like, you know, 73 degrees, you know, I’m wearing a short-sleeved polo, it’s like, life is good down here.
62 00:04:59.520 ⇒ 00:05:05.130 Holly Condos: But, you know, I try to tell everybody, even in November and December, it does get cold at night.
63 00:05:05.270 ⇒ 00:05:10.969 Holly Condos: Like, it can freeze, but, you know, like 40 degrees at night, which is cold for here.
64 00:05:11.560 ⇒ 00:05:14.289 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, it’s overnight, definitely, yeah.
65 00:05:14.610 ⇒ 00:05:17.589 Greg Stoutenburg: I went skiing on Sunday, and it was 20 and windy.
66 00:05:17.980 ⇒ 00:05:22.020 Greg Stoutenburg: So, East Coast representative here.
67 00:05:22.020 ⇒ 00:05:23.909 Hugo Pegley: That’s actual cold, there you go.
68 00:05:23.910 ⇒ 00:05:24.300 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
69 00:05:24.920 ⇒ 00:05:25.800 Greg Stoutenburg: It’s a good time.
70 00:05:26.490 ⇒ 00:05:29.410 Uttam Kumaran: And Hannah… Hannah’s in LA, right, still, Hannah?
71 00:05:29.410 ⇒ 00:05:34.430 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I’ve got it nice here, too. It’s… It’s sunny, so…
72 00:05:34.430 ⇒ 00:05:46.159 Hugo Pegley: First night in Santa Monica on the trip, we woke up, it was like 82 degrees, and I was like, oh my god, this is… it was almost too high, I didn’t pack, I didn’t… I didn’t bring the right place for that. But good problem to have.
73 00:05:46.230 ⇒ 00:05:56.520 Hugo Pegley: Well, thank you so much to everyone for hopping on the call. I started this contact, actually through Upwork. Obviously, you know, Brainforge, you guys are working with Amplitude, you have some
74 00:05:56.630 ⇒ 00:06:12.819 Hugo Pegley: past history, but I run our affiliate program, kind of our new, you know, plus business-focused channel, and I was talking with Robert. I understand you guys have a good amount of history, knowledge of the product. You’ve done some reselling or kind of higher-level partnership and implementation in the past.
75 00:06:12.940 ⇒ 00:06:28.819 Hugo Pegley: The focus for me, is on the Plus business. So, I don’t know how familiar you are with all the tiers, but the Plus business is kind of in between our free starter plan and then our growth and enterprise plan. So, plus is anywhere from $50 a month to several thousand a month.
76 00:06:28.830 ⇒ 00:06:36.800 Hugo Pegley: you can basically think of the floor for growth in enterprise as about the $50K and up mark. So, plus is that really strong mid-market level.
77 00:06:37.010 ⇒ 00:06:45.879 Hugo Pegley: And what I wanted to learn a little bit more about, with Brainforge is what are the kind of, you know, customers, companies, folks that you’re working with?
78 00:06:45.880 ⇒ 00:07:01.319 Hugo Pegley: And more generally, is there an opportunity in the Plus business to collaborate, to get some, you know, commissions and revenue going for you guys, but then also to drive growth of that segment for us? So would love to learn a little bit more about each of your roles, or, you know, however you guys want to kind of kick it off.
79 00:07:01.350 ⇒ 00:07:02.869 Hugo Pegley: And get some more context.
80 00:07:03.140 ⇒ 00:07:10.329 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, I can drive from our side, and we kind of prepared a little bit of a deck, and I think that’s perfect context. I mean, those are all…
81 00:07:10.480 ⇒ 00:07:20.190 Uttam Kumaran: basically the first questions is, I’m like, okay, where do you want us to focus? But we love amplitude. I was… I even called Robert the other day, and we usually talk, and I’m like.
82 00:07:20.350 ⇒ 00:07:38.040 Uttam Kumaran: Is Amplitude still, like, your pick? Like, what… you know, we’ve done some mixed panel, he’s like, it’s just still the best product, and it’s usually what we go with. So, we… yeah, we’ve done a lot of work. I know Robert, in particular, in his career, has done a lot. So, both Robert and I run Brainforge.
83 00:07:38.040 ⇒ 00:07:40.749 Uttam Kumaran: My background is more on the data engineering.
84 00:07:40.750 ⇒ 00:07:48.679 Uttam Kumaran: Data modeling, sort of building data team side. But we do a lot of product analytics and strategy work.
85 00:07:48.730 ⇒ 00:07:57.430 Uttam Kumaran: With a bunch of, you know, now most of our folks are fast-growing software, so I think fit, like, kind of right in your sweet spot. I’ll probably let…
86 00:07:57.430 ⇒ 00:08:12.489 Uttam Kumaran: I think Greg may have a little bit more knowledge of the exact features in every tier, but I feel like most of our clients fit exactly there. And, like, the great part of working with us is, like, we… I know a lot of folks can get stuck in the free tier, they adopt
87 00:08:12.490 ⇒ 00:08:17.109 Uttam Kumaran: they pay, and then maybe they don’t get the usage, so they downgrade. So that’s all the stuff that we…
88 00:08:17.170 ⇒ 00:08:35.320 Uttam Kumaran: you know, attack, and we make sure that this tool gets adopted and used, and… and really, like, where a lot of our… and I’ll go through, kind of, who our customers are. Where we found people struggle with product analytics is they set it up, but if they mess up, you know, the event taxonomy, they don’t know how to drive towards their first dashboard.
89 00:08:35.320 ⇒ 00:08:51.639 Uttam Kumaran: even deeper, it’s like, if they don’t know how to run, like, an analytics meeting where you look at a dashboard, you ask questions, you drive a decision, your tool will suffer out of their, sort of, like, you know, disorganization, and so that’s a lot of what we help companies with. And so.
90 00:08:51.820 ⇒ 00:08:56.879 Uttam Kumaran: we partner with a lot of folks, and so for us, you know, I know as much as,
91 00:08:57.390 ⇒ 00:09:10.609 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of SI partners tend to drive towards, like, oh, we love referral fees. I actually don’t think we care much about that. I think for us, is, like, we care about being able to recommend the best tools in the market,
92 00:09:10.810 ⇒ 00:09:21.370 Uttam Kumaran: for us, I sort of explain to our team, it’s like, we dig a lot of holes in data and AI, and when we get great shovels to do that, it makes our job super, super easy, and, you know.
93 00:09:21.370 ⇒ 00:09:35.369 Uttam Kumaran: the tool looks like a star, we look like a star, but most importantly, the person that is paying us and that’s leveraging Brainforge to drive their, you know, business unit looks great. And so, we do a lot of… most of our deals these days are… are coming… are, like.
94 00:09:35.370 ⇒ 00:09:48.179 Uttam Kumaran: partner co-sell, because we… when we come into a tool, into a company, we’re… we’re typically implementing 5 or 10 pieces of the software, and when we don’t do any work like dev shop or staff augmentation work.
95 00:09:48.180 ⇒ 00:09:56.380 Uttam Kumaran: all of our work is really partnering with the C-level or, you know, like, the VP level to drive business outcomes, and so
96 00:09:56.520 ⇒ 00:10:03.819 Uttam Kumaran: We tend to work really, really well in bringing and increasing the adoption of, you know.
97 00:10:04.020 ⇒ 00:10:24.009 Uttam Kumaran: of partners. And so this is sort of, like, our… our ICP. So we’ve, again, as I mentioned, we work with, like, typically the C-suite, the directors or the founders or division leaders. Most of our companies are, you know, typically in the 200 million range, or if they’re fast-growing, you know, SaaS, usually, like, Series A, Series B.
98 00:10:25.300 ⇒ 00:10:28.550 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like, for the most part, it’s the people that are…
99 00:10:28.710 ⇒ 00:10:43.550 Uttam Kumaran: that they’re responsible for leveraging data or AI to drive business value. We’ve done a lot of work in e-com, CPG, a lot of work in health, and, you know, my background, you know, comes from B2B software, so,
100 00:10:43.550 ⇒ 00:10:54.840 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like now we’re getting a little bit more well-defined on, like, the industries we’ve had a lot of wins in, but still, if the phone rings and it’s a great client with a great outcome, you know, we do our best to help them.
101 00:10:54.840 ⇒ 00:11:08.500 Uttam Kumaran: On our side, you have me and Robert sort of leading. Holly, is our partnerships lead. Hannah, does a lot on the design and marketing side, and Rico, you know, helps a lot with scheduling. You also have Greg here.
102 00:11:08.500 ⇒ 00:11:14.139 Uttam Kumaran: Who does a lot of work with us, actually on the amplitude implementation adoption, like, leading.
103 00:11:14.210 ⇒ 00:11:19.300 Uttam Kumaran: you know, analytics conversations with clients. I feel like we…
104 00:11:19.480 ⇒ 00:11:36.590 Uttam Kumaran: every… anytime we talk to a partner, I’m like, who on our team does a lot of Amplitude work? Can you want to just, stick around and, talk about the product, or hear firsthand from the Amplitude Partnerships team on, like, what they care about, and how we can drive successful outcomes?
105 00:11:37.580 ⇒ 00:11:52.839 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, that’s, like, a little bit on our side. I know on your side, it’s you. I think we’ve also talked to… to Ellie, who I think is on the part… Ellie Olson, I think, is on the partnership side. I don’t know, Hannah, if there’s any… or Hannah or Holly, if there’s anybody else that we’ve…
106 00:11:53.210 ⇒ 00:11:54.409 Uttam Kumaran: spoken to.
107 00:11:54.800 ⇒ 00:11:57.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it was Stephanie who was… Okay.
108 00:11:57.380 ⇒ 00:12:02.729 Holly Condos: partnerships lead, but I think she’s moved on. Is that right, Hugo?
109 00:12:04.030 ⇒ 00:12:14.330 Hugo Pegley: I’m not sure about Stephanie. I know I was looking just through our, history and saw that Beth, who runs our community, and Ellie had kind of chatted about you guys in the Slack,
110 00:12:14.650 ⇒ 00:12:31.070 Hugo Pegley: Not sure on Stephanie’s front, but the… yeah, the key distinction I want to make is that we have, you know, kind of several different, marketing teams and motions, and the partnerships motion, is separate from, kind of, growth marketing and affiliate.
111 00:12:31.070 ⇒ 00:12:33.880 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. The partnerships motion is.
112 00:12:33.990 ⇒ 00:12:46.319 Hugo Pegley: much more involved. It’s, there’s, like, a process, a training you go through. I don’t know if you guys have discussed that in the past with Ellie, or kind of what level the conversation was, but there’s training, there’s certification.
113 00:12:46.430 ⇒ 00:12:51.699 Hugo Pegley: There’s, you know, kind of different levels of cross-promotion and co-branding.
114 00:12:51.710 ⇒ 00:13:03.529 Hugo Pegley: And then, on the affiliate side, we have complete agency. We can do it super lightweight, just onboard you and partner stack our, you know, program manager, and just kind of
115 00:13:03.530 ⇒ 00:13:14.829 Hugo Pegley: you can refer folks through that, get compensated, or I’m happy to do that, but then do a lot of kind of co-marketing, co-branding, but it’s a lot more flexible. The one distinction I will make is that
116 00:13:15.240 ⇒ 00:13:16.180 Hugo Pegley: the…
117 00:13:16.750 ⇒ 00:13:35.969 Hugo Pegley: demographic of your customers matters a lot for which program is going to be the best for you. I’ll be super candid in that, if you guys are bringing in, you know, enterprise-level customers who are signing enterprise-level deals, you should really pursue the partnerships program. That’s going to be more lucrative for you, that’s going to be a multi-month sales process.
118 00:13:35.970 ⇒ 00:13:50.769 Hugo Pegley: you know, that would definitely be a better fit, and I’d be happy to kind of, like, bump that thread. What I’m really focused on is that, you know, 50K range, which maybe is the right fit. That’s where we have a lot more flexibility, we can do rev share, that’s kind of a subscription-based model.
119 00:13:50.820 ⇒ 00:14:06.810 Hugo Pegley: So, those are two distinct motions. I actually don’t, you know, collaborate with that team too much. I’m starting to more now, and kind of start some conversations as we build this motion on affiliate, but, you know, the rest of my team is focused on paid ads, SEO, like, we’re really growth marketers at the top of the funnel.
120 00:14:07.020 ⇒ 00:14:26.289 Uttam Kumaran: Great. Yeah, no, I actually think both are relevant. I think most of our clients, though, fit in your camp. Like, we… although, like, the client sizes we work with are big, we’re often doing a lot for them, right? We’re doing some data infrastructure stuff, and then a product analytics opportunity comes up with the marketing team, and then we kind of go there. So it’s not often, like.
121 00:14:26.290 ⇒ 00:14:26.829 Hugo Pegley: Got it.
122 00:14:26.830 ⇒ 00:14:32.630 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not often… the size of the company is not often representative of, like, what the… the amplitude opportunity is, so I actually feel…
123 00:14:32.760 ⇒ 00:14:47.609 Uttam Kumaran: like, our stuff is kind of in your camp, for the most part, and of course, we would love to work on, like, super big enterprise implementations of Amplitude, but I feel like most of the time we’re supporting, like, a couple people internally on product analytics, or just the.
124 00:14:47.610 ⇒ 00:14:48.210 Hugo Pegley: Perfect.
125 00:14:48.210 ⇒ 00:14:55.920 Uttam Kumaran: you know, product… the small product team, so… Yeah, maybe, like, you know, I kind of highlighted that, like, yeah, we do a pretty good job of…
126 00:14:55.930 ⇒ 00:15:07.089 Uttam Kumaran: And really, my background is in working with all these tools my whole career, and so when we had the opportunity to build Brainforge, it’s, like, totally symbiotic that we’re implementing all the tools we love.
127 00:15:07.090 ⇒ 00:15:16.190 Uttam Kumaran: And it makes our job super easy, and we’re driving, like, the sales conversation often, like, we’re either the sole decision maker or,
128 00:15:16.190 ⇒ 00:15:24.329 Uttam Kumaran: like, part of that decision committee, so it’s… so we often recommend best in class. We’re… we’re… we’re not often working with people,
129 00:15:24.710 ⇒ 00:15:39.560 Uttam Kumaran: who don’t have the money to invest in this area, so… but usually they just don’t know where to invest, or they don’t know the ecosystem of tools available. And so, like, that’s really, like, where we come in.
130 00:15:39.840 ⇒ 00:15:43.010 Uttam Kumaran: Again, I mentioned we partner with a bunch of folks.
131 00:15:43.080 ⇒ 00:16:00.969 Uttam Kumaran: These are sort of, like, a high level of, like, our clients. As I mentioned, a lot of, you know, work in SaaS, e-com, in health. Not all of these are… we have product analytics engagements with, but increasingly, when we come into a company, we are usually tasked to do one thing.
132 00:16:01.060 ⇒ 00:16:16.599 Uttam Kumaran: as we, you know, really do a great job there, they often are like, well, okay, we love helping XYZ. Part of the reason Greg, you know, joined us recently is to continue to grow our muscle and our effort in the product analytics world.
133 00:16:16.600 ⇒ 00:16:30.230 Uttam Kumaran: You know, Robert is really our primary internal, you know, expert. And again, these are typically for our B2B or B2C SaaS customers, and so that’s an area where we’re really great at that. We’re really coming in, seeing, like.
134 00:16:30.230 ⇒ 00:16:36.840 Uttam Kumaran: You know, sort of stale amplitude instances, and just, like, really turning that on, driving the conversation to
135 00:16:36.850 ⇒ 00:16:48.319 Uttam Kumaran: change instrumentation, you know, have, like, weekly meetings where we review, you know, dashboards directly in Amplitude, take data out of Amplitude and connect it in a data warehouse with other stuff, so that’s a lot of the work.
136 00:16:48.340 ⇒ 00:16:56.780 Uttam Kumaran: that we do, and here’s, like, a lot, I think, of sort of the current, sort of, Amplitude, you know, client portfolio that we’ve had.
137 00:16:57.110 ⇒ 00:17:07.559 Uttam Kumaran: And so, default and README in particular are both two clients. Greg works on README, and on the default side, they…
138 00:17:07.589 ⇒ 00:17:20.679 Uttam Kumaran: they’re a good example of they raise a bunch of money, they implemented Amplitude… they turned on Amplitude sometime 2 years ago, and just sort of just been sitting there, and we’re coming in and really driving the conversation to start to build what their product analytics
139 00:17:20.750 ⇒ 00:17:25.639 Uttam Kumaran: like, you know, roadmap is. And Amplitude is at the heart of that, and so…
140 00:17:25.640 ⇒ 00:17:41.259 Uttam Kumaran: it’s really easy for me to come in and say, you guys have no reporting on your product, you’re a growing SaaS company, you’re releasing a new version of, like, your entire platform in February, let’s build out the roadmap, you know, on how we’re gonna establish, you know, events.
141 00:17:41.290 ⇒ 00:17:42.979 Uttam Kumaran: How we’re gonna start to look at
142 00:17:43.060 ⇒ 00:17:51.370 Uttam Kumaran: Product data, and as you hire more product managers, how they get enabled to do split testing, how they get to build dashboards their own.
143 00:17:51.620 ⇒ 00:17:55.220 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s, like, the conversation we’re… we’re having with them.
144 00:17:56.390 ⇒ 00:18:09.330 Hugo Pegley: Can I ask you a couple of quick hitters here, and if you don’t have the exact numbers, that’s totally fine, and maybe you’ve got this later, but, how many… what percentage of these clients were net new setups versus, existing works… orgs?
145 00:18:10.450 ⇒ 00:18:17.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think, I think, probably… 50-50,
146 00:18:17.940 ⇒ 00:18:23.100 Uttam Kumaran: I would say. I think, a lot of these companies had no…
147 00:18:23.820 ⇒ 00:18:35.310 Uttam Kumaran: they either had a competitor or they had nothing. Some of these basically had installed amplitude or signed up, but it was stale. So if you kind of consider that net new, I guess that would probably count.
148 00:18:35.310 ⇒ 00:18:48.729 Hugo Pegley: I totally do. The only reason I’m asking is that… because, like, psychologically, strategically, that is net new. The only reason I’m asking is because in terms of revenue attribution, I have to get you at top of funnel, and so it has to be a net new org.
149 00:18:48.730 ⇒ 00:18:49.130 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, sure.
150 00:18:49.130 ⇒ 00:18:56.479 Hugo Pegley: So, so if, like, if we were working together to net new people, no problem, that’s gonna be easy. If you’ve got someone who’s got a really.
151 00:18:56.480 ⇒ 00:19:01.599 Uttam Kumaran: if you’ve got no data connected, or it’s completely stale… That’s what the default was. Yeah.
152 00:19:01.600 ⇒ 00:19:03.620 Hugo Pegley: You’re like, cut it off, sign up again?
153 00:19:04.000 ⇒ 00:19:16.070 Hugo Pegley: Exactly. I would say, listen, hey, we’re gonna do a clean slate. You send through the referral link, you guys are gonna get credit. I don’t want you to have someone who you upgrade to a big plus plan, and then it’s, you know, it’s technically Google or something. Okay.
154 00:19:16.070 ⇒ 00:19:17.050 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
155 00:19:17.050 ⇒ 00:19:22.750 Hugo Pegley: Second, I was just looking at README really quick, just because I found that one. They’re $5.61 a month.
156 00:19:22.930 ⇒ 00:19:33.159 Hugo Pegley: you know, 7, 8K a year. What’s the ACV generally for these current clients? Is it kind of like, you know, 5K to $10K? Do you… have you had some bigger ones? Excuse me, smaller ones?
157 00:19:33.160 ⇒ 00:19:36.190 Uttam Kumaran: In terms of, like, like, all four…
158 00:19:37.030 ⇒ 00:19:39.840 Uttam Kumaran: But in terms of just their spend on amplitude?
159 00:19:39.840 ⇒ 00:19:43.209 Hugo Pegley: Just amplitude, yeah. Just curious what the scale of the opportunity is.
160 00:19:43.210 ⇒ 00:19:49.759 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s probably around there, like, I wouldn’t be surprised if default ends up there or bigger.
161 00:19:50.720 ⇒ 00:19:52.839 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. So, yeah, I feel like…
162 00:19:53.270 ⇒ 00:20:08.839 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like at least on the minimum of what the plus plan is, and up from there. But I… yeah, I think that’s maybe something I can get back to you with what it’s looked like for the past. But for the most part, we… so we are… we are past, kind of, like, working on…
163 00:20:08.930 ⇒ 00:20:19.660 Uttam Kumaran: like, free amplitude setups. Most people… and we have some slides, too, another one who’s like, yeah, they just set up post-hog for free one day, and then it’s, like, sitting there, and we’re like, okay, we need to move to something…
164 00:20:19.770 ⇒ 00:20:32.209 Uttam Kumaran: you know, more serious, and let’s, like, move you to… move you to amplitude, move to a pay plan. So, I don’t think we’ve ever had issues kind of getting people there, especially as, like, our company’s grown, we’re moving more, you know, up.
165 00:20:32.740 ⇒ 00:20:34.760 Uttam Kumaran: But I think that’s generally the size.
166 00:20:35.280 ⇒ 00:20:38.809 Hugo Pegley: Okay, so that’s kind of ideal, you know, get them into PLUS.
167 00:20:38.810 ⇒ 00:20:46.769 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, at, like, a beginner level, hey, you got a lot more functionality, and then hopefully, obviously, their business grows, you guys grow, you know, the ARR grows, that’s… that’s great.
168 00:20:46.770 ⇒ 00:20:57.849 Hugo Pegley: And when you do, sign these new folks, do you do an annual commitment? Are they signing annual plans with you and with Amplitude? Do you operate on a monthly basis?
169 00:20:58.340 ⇒ 00:21:05.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so for us, most of our agreements with these folks are typically at least 3 months.
170 00:21:05.080 ⇒ 00:21:13.939 Uttam Kumaran: And, you know, upwards of a year. We are, like, sort of a fractional data team, like, fractional strategy team.
171 00:21:13.940 ⇒ 00:21:23.339 Uttam Kumaran: So, we come in, and we really kind of sink our teeth in. We don’t tend to have any project-based work anymore. So I think in the past, Robert may have done, like.
172 00:21:23.340 ⇒ 00:21:34.459 Uttam Kumaran: 0 to 1 amplitude setups, most of our stuff is not like that anymore. All of our stuff is sort of come in and drive higher level, you know, revenue or profit acceleration.
173 00:21:34.460 ⇒ 00:21:54.450 Uttam Kumaran: Product analytics is a part… may or may not be a part of that. So these are all long-term agreements. So, from the vendor side, this is just, like, we’re not coming in and sort of setting up, doing everything, and then getting out the door. It’s, like, very crucial that we get this done as part of our long… longer sort of engagement with these clients. We’ve only been in business about
174 00:21:54.490 ⇒ 00:22:00.159 Uttam Kumaran: like, two and a half years, and so most of our clients now are all been with us about
175 00:22:00.740 ⇒ 00:22:06.649 Uttam Kumaran: Like, a year, and then the ones we’re signing up new, typically we’re signing 3-6 month agreements most of the time.
176 00:22:07.320 ⇒ 00:22:09.439 Hugo Pegley: Got it. Well, the good thing about the,
177 00:22:09.690 ⇒ 00:22:14.140 Hugo Pegley: billion, you know, 12 months of rev shares. If they do leave you or whatever, you can… you can still.
178 00:22:14.140 ⇒ 00:22:15.549 Uttam Kumaran: loads of information on there.
179 00:22:15.550 ⇒ 00:22:19.090 Hugo Pegley: on their amplitude spend, at least that would be a bonus. Hopefully they stick with both of us.
180 00:22:19.090 ⇒ 00:22:30.339 Uttam Kumaran: But again, for us, like, our money is made on… is made on getting them to these outcomes. That’s why, like, kind of, like, our whole pitch and, like, kind of what we’ll get into is, like.
181 00:22:30.430 ⇒ 00:22:45.380 Uttam Kumaran: I care much more about if you’re able to take that affiliate revenue and say, like, we’d love to do an event, we’d love to do a webinar, we’d love to do some type of co-marketing, that is much more interesting to me to do. I…
182 00:22:45.750 ⇒ 00:22:58.789 Uttam Kumaran: personally, and on behalf of the business, don’t care much about the couple hundred bucks and the stuff like that. Like, I would rather take that money and take that goodwill and drive it towards a marketing activity that can work for both of us.
183 00:22:59.010 ⇒ 00:23:18.599 Uttam Kumaran: And so we’ve done some stuff. I think Robert did something in Amplitude for LA Tech Week. Of course, we do a lot of work through… through Upwork, but maybe I’ll kind of… I’ll kind of share… this is… this is also, like… I think we have a slide here about how we talk about, Amplitude, but this is sort of, like, the one slide on…
184 00:23:18.760 ⇒ 00:23:24.109 Uttam Kumaran: where Amplitude sits when we… when we talk to customers. And so…
185 00:23:24.220 ⇒ 00:23:28.970 Uttam Kumaran: Like, let me just drive, kind of, the next through, like, kind of some of our partner emotions.
186 00:23:28.970 ⇒ 00:23:48.830 Uttam Kumaran: like, and this may be interesting, like, we’ve done a lot of, you know, great events, and part of the thing that we do is, like, when we do an event, it’s not, I worked in technology my whole career. Like, we’re not trying to do things which is, like, just come to a happy hour and drink, and it’s a lot of, engineers. It’s, like, for us, we’re trying to do…
187 00:23:48.830 ⇒ 00:23:55.449 Uttam Kumaran: more, invite-only things with real decision makers. And on our team, we have the capability
188 00:23:55.450 ⇒ 00:24:03.869 Uttam Kumaran: Of actually, like, building those invite lists, running the event, like, executing, getting, you know, great media out of it, which I think a lot of
189 00:24:04.020 ⇒ 00:24:19.320 Uttam Kumaran: consultancies often, like, don’t have the muscle towards, and so that’s what’s been really great for us to work with a lot of partners. Like, we’ve done some events, with a bunch of variety companies, and we’re starting to do more. And I think a lot of them just find it interesting, because we’re one of the few
190 00:24:19.320 ⇒ 00:24:30.490 Uttam Kumaran: sort of service partners that actually can take a lot of the execution load off of them, you know, which I think is really helpful. So we’ve done events, we’ve done a lot of stuff on social.
191 00:24:30.560 ⇒ 00:24:38.330 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve also started to do more, like, white papers. I think we already have, like, one or two, amplitude case studies that we use.
192 00:24:38.330 ⇒ 00:24:38.860 Hugo Pegley: Nice.
193 00:24:38.880 ⇒ 00:24:43.609 Uttam Kumaran: And so, yeah, and then we’ve… we started to do more videos, so we’re open to, like.
194 00:24:43.920 ⇒ 00:24:55.310 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of different opportunities. Again, for me, I’ve worked, you know, really closely to digital marketing my whole career on the data side, and so, like.
195 00:24:55.550 ⇒ 00:25:04.140 Uttam Kumaran: if we can do something like this together, and for you guys, our story is that… is really, like, how amplitude plugs into a larger growth.
196 00:25:04.140 ⇒ 00:25:05.810 Hugo Pegley: story, and…
197 00:25:05.890 ⇒ 00:25:13.270 Uttam Kumaran: and again, it’s like us talking about how amplitude was really the core part of that. We found the reception to be really, really…
198 00:25:13.450 ⇒ 00:25:22.520 Uttam Kumaran: positive, because we talk about, like, a holistic, like, solution, you know, for our clients, and, like, a holistic outcome. So, I don’t know, I feel like that’s…
199 00:25:22.630 ⇒ 00:25:30.040 Uttam Kumaran: That’s sort of, like, a lot of what this presentation is, is just, like, sort of showing, like, a little bit of what we can do, how we position amplitude, but…
200 00:25:30.160 ⇒ 00:25:36.229 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m kind of curious about, like, what you think, like, what’s top of mind for you, and, like, how we can support?
201 00:25:36.660 ⇒ 00:25:44.959 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, no, I love that. I love the pacing as well. I think the best place to start is an affiliate, right? Let’s get some folks in through the door.
202 00:25:44.960 ⇒ 00:26:02.059 Hugo Pegley: hey, you know, Brainforge is becoming one of our top partners, they’ve got a strong pipeline, they know Amplitude really well, and that’s what I find in our best, not just affiliates, but our best partners in general. They really know, love, use our experts in Amplitude. And I think from there, if we show
203 00:26:02.060 ⇒ 00:26:05.819 Hugo Pegley: a track record, right? And it’s like, hey, there’s real ARR coming in.
204 00:26:05.820 ⇒ 00:26:08.450 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. That opens up all of these things. It opens up…
205 00:26:08.450 ⇒ 00:26:28.440 Hugo Pegley: budget to give to you to promote the product, co-hosting, co-branding events, like, and all of my colleagues are the ones who are managing those. So I think that is the natural progression to me. I think the best way to get to that, like you said, is to drive clear ARR through the affiliate program, and then as we expand.
206 00:26:28.450 ⇒ 00:26:37.649 Hugo Pegley: Right? It’s… it’s… it continues to benefit all of us, and and you guys obviously know… you know us well, so I… I love the look of that, yeah.
207 00:26:38.170 ⇒ 00:26:43.059 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Yeah, I guess, Greg, any questions? I mean, I would love to hear how your…
208 00:26:43.060 ⇒ 00:26:58.760 Uttam Kumaran: you’ve talked about Amplitude in the past, and, like, what… if there’s anything that the team can provide. I mean, I… on our side, like, I want to keep developing the case studies. I definitely think that when we come in, we have a really good story around product analytics, but yeah, I don’t know, Greg, any questions or thoughts?
209 00:26:58.760 ⇒ 00:27:07.280 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, I mean, I think my thought here, yeah, and thanks for all that, Hugo. One thing I was thinking is, as part of the affiliate program, or maybe related to it,
210 00:27:07.280 ⇒ 00:27:21.699 Greg Stoutenburg: what’s Amplitude’s view on things like other social promotions? So, just as an example, I’m a member of the community, you know, you mentioned Beth, I know Beth, and so I have done a couple of coffee chats, and whatever it was called before, coffee chats, when Esther ran them.
211 00:27:21.700 ⇒ 00:27:31.649 Greg Stoutenburg: So, you know, I mean, is there any… is there any value or interest from Amplitude in things like that, where there’s, you know, some kind of presentation, perhaps, where…
212 00:27:31.730 ⇒ 00:27:45.289 Greg Stoutenburg: I or you, Tom Robert, it’s like, hey, you know, here’s this thing, this work that we did with a client, here were some of the outcomes, here’s where we used amplitude, check out Amplitude, did this and this awesome stuff, and now, you know, profits are through the roof, that kind of thing.
213 00:27:45.880 ⇒ 00:27:48.200 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, definitely. I was actually talking with
214 00:27:48.250 ⇒ 00:28:05.579 Hugo Pegley: Beth, more about kind of getting folks like you from the community into the affiliate program. There’s no reason to not kind of have some incentivization there, and also just to strengthen and deepen the partnership. So something I can follow up with her on is, like, hey, if we’re, you know, kind of deepening this, is there an opportunity
215 00:28:05.580 ⇒ 00:28:16.480 Hugo Pegley: Like you mentioned, I think, yeah, the wizard bar, right, to either come and network and, you know, talk to potential customers, even if they’re existing amplitude, they might, you know, connect you into other folks.
216 00:28:16.480 ⇒ 00:28:26.800 Hugo Pegley: Or to do some sort of, like, webinar, I’m absolutely open to that. I wouldn’t be the one putting that on, but let me… let me talk to, you know, the folks who would be, and kind of see what the opportunities might be.
217 00:28:27.170 ⇒ 00:28:34.389 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and also, for something like that, it’s also, like, so… like, it just takes a lot… little effort for us to just sit behind the camera and…
218 00:28:34.400 ⇒ 00:28:53.719 Uttam Kumaran: And gush about amplitude, so, like, that’s… and for us, I think we always talk about, like, the story for the customer, right? So when, like, where we found them, and we try to get, for the folks in the audience, like, get them to relate to, like, oh yeah, we also have that exact same thing, or yeah, we also have this, like, conversion rate issue that we can’t, like, get through, and we…
219 00:28:53.780 ⇒ 00:29:09.180 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve… 5 people have come in and tried to sort of stand up amplitude, and they never got it. Like, those are the things where we talk, we sort of, like, say the quiet thing out loud, and I think it gets good reception. And then we do a good job of, like, whatever, whether it’s decks or case studies or whatever, like, building those assets.
220 00:29:09.180 ⇒ 00:29:25.520 Uttam Kumaran: to get out to everybody that attends. So, like, that’s… and again, for our team, like, I have no nervousness about explaining exactly what we do, how we did it, because the odds that you can go take all that and go do it is very low. For us, we’re trying to show our expertise, and that’s, like, what we…
221 00:29:25.520 ⇒ 00:29:30.989 Uttam Kumaran: What we monetize, and if we can get an avenue to do that, like, more than happy to.
222 00:29:31.520 ⇒ 00:29:31.900 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah.
223 00:29:31.900 ⇒ 00:29:42.139 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, this is perfect. I think, you know, my goal is to drive plusARR through the affiliate program. Your goal is to grow your business. Like you said, it’s not really about the commissions.
224 00:29:42.140 ⇒ 00:29:57.639 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we’ll take… we’ll take it, but it’s like, it’s not what I want to, like, yeah, for me, it’s like, we’re… we’re not a… we’re not a volume play in that we’re coming in and we’re just doing these, like, quick starts and leaving. For us, we… these are, like, really longer-term engagements, you know?
225 00:29:58.070 ⇒ 00:30:15.019 Hugo Pegley: Totally. And I think that works perfectly, because we can achieve that goal for me, for Amplitude, and really also expand your business and become more of a co-branded partner. I mean, something I am working on, and this is something that I have to get, you know, more permissions, and then the team has to build it, but
226 00:30:15.340 ⇒ 00:30:33.599 Hugo Pegley: I have, you know, talked to my boss about, hey, once we have some top partners, right, what… can we offer some custom discounting? Can we offer, you know, custom landing pages, cross-promotion? Like, those are all being discussed, and I think, yeah, after… obviously, you guys have a strong track record, like you said, you know Beth, you know the community. I don’t wanna…
227 00:30:33.600 ⇒ 00:30:51.309 Hugo Pegley: you know, underemphasize that, but I think if we have, you know, 3, 4, 5 kind of new plus customers coming through you in Q1, it’s going to be much easier for me to go and say, hey, here’s what we’ve done, here’s the revenue directly attributed to it, and to get a landing page action, to get a webinar, to get that action. And also, like I said.
228 00:30:51.470 ⇒ 00:31:02.059 Hugo Pegley: I obviously want you guys to focus on the Plus business, but as Amplitude in general, maybe it’s worth then you guys joining the Partner Program, if you have future enterprise, you know, aspirations.
229 00:31:02.260 ⇒ 00:31:05.310 Hugo Pegley: But, yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. I guess,
230 00:31:05.690 ⇒ 00:31:07.929 Hugo Pegley: you know, are you guys already in Partner Stack?
231 00:31:08.270 ⇒ 00:31:11.770 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I mean, or we can double check, yeah, I don’t think.
232 00:31:11.770 ⇒ 00:31:25.500 Hugo Pegley: Very easy to get you guys set up in there. And, you know, I’m currently starting our top partners out at a 25% rupture. It’s 10% right now, but top partners at 25%. If that works for you guys, that’s where we can start.
233 00:31:25.500 ⇒ 00:31:26.850 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. That’s fine.
234 00:31:27.800 ⇒ 00:31:29.360 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, that’s true. And so,
235 00:31:29.570 ⇒ 00:31:44.470 Hugo Pegley: the main thing for me is just making sure, that we get you guys set up correctly. Over the holidays. I know it’s gonna be a little bit slower, but you guys know Amplitude, it’s not gonna be too new. We just make sure you’re in partnership correctly. Check out your tracking links.
236 00:31:45.310 ⇒ 00:31:58.400 Hugo Pegley: for these first few clients, you know, I imagine you guys have all your motions, your sales stuff all set up. Is there anything I can do to help with, like, 2026 assets, or… That’s exactly what I was gonna ask.
237 00:31:58.400 ⇒ 00:32:03.840 Uttam Kumaran: As far as, so any sort of deck or, like, training assets.
238 00:32:03.880 ⇒ 00:32:21.690 Uttam Kumaran: We… we will just probably run through those, or we may sort of take and brand, but that would be super, super helpful, so we have. And there are gonna be more people joining that do this work internally that will ramp up on amplitude, so as much of that that we can get, it’s like any sort of partner aid assets.
239 00:32:21.690 ⇒ 00:32:26.009 Uttam Kumaran: I assume if that’s in PartnerStack, we can get it from there, but… That would be helpful.
240 00:32:26.010 ⇒ 00:32:30.640 Hugo Pegley: it actually in the partner program, right? So that’s the one thing. It’s one thing that I need to figure out is, like.
241 00:32:30.640 ⇒ 00:32:31.330 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, okay.
242 00:32:31.330 ⇒ 00:32:34.070 Hugo Pegley: A lot of things are gated, right? It’s gated to official…
243 00:32:34.190 ⇒ 00:32:36.490 Hugo Pegley: Of partners, and that’s a longer process.
244 00:32:36.490 ⇒ 00:32:36.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
245 00:32:36.810 ⇒ 00:32:39.139 Hugo Pegley: You know, and so one thing I will do, though, is, like.
246 00:32:39.440 ⇒ 00:32:53.640 Hugo Pegley: I can reach out to Beth or to Courtney and kind of explain, and, you know, you have a top-amplitude freelancer, like, there’s, like, it’s not some random, you know, person who’s just trying to kind of, you know, get a look on that. So let me get back to you on the assets. There’s definitely…
247 00:32:54.070 ⇒ 00:32:55.659 Hugo Pegley: case studies, and kind of…
248 00:32:55.660 ⇒ 00:33:04.820 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll end up producing it ourselves, if we just love to go off of your stuff, or I would just show your stuff. Like, I… we run a bunch of other kinds through other vendors.
249 00:33:05.070 ⇒ 00:33:05.710 Hugo Pegley: Then there’s beta.
250 00:33:05.710 ⇒ 00:33:07.539 Uttam Kumaran: These are one-on-one, stuff like that, yeah.
251 00:33:07.540 ⇒ 00:33:11.819 Hugo Pegley: we can… there’s betas, and we have a lot of AI stuff coming next year.
252 00:33:11.820 ⇒ 00:33:31.239 Uttam Kumaran: My next question is, like, that is the question we’re getting from everybody, is on every single part of the data stack, where does AI fit into either speeding up our development, or, you know, just enabling more output? So anything on that that we can also learn and ramp up on?
253 00:33:31.240 ⇒ 00:33:43.589 Uttam Kumaran: and use as part of when we demo Amplitude and things like that is, like, amazing. So, either, like, MCPs, or using chat within Amplitude, or whatever that is, like, we’d love to start to highlight that. That is, like.
254 00:33:43.720 ⇒ 00:33:59.809 Uttam Kumaran: gonna be the primary selling point of a lot of our things when we come in and talk about building a data stack and building data infrastructure is always how, like, everybody’s asking about how they could use AI to get insights out faster, configure the tool, you know, easier, things like that.
255 00:34:00.540 ⇒ 00:34:09.110 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, I mean, listen, I’m not the most technical guy. I’ve been at Amplitude for a year, I probably… I know a decent amount, I barely scratched the surface, and the MCP, like, all the…
256 00:34:09.110 ⇒ 00:34:09.440 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
257 00:34:09.449 ⇒ 00:34:18.379 Hugo Pegley: All the natural language development is amazing. We also have, obviously, the agents that are doing experimentation for you, doing optimization for you.
258 00:34:18.379 ⇒ 00:34:38.029 Hugo Pegley: what I would say is, like, I’ll figure out what I can share publicly, obviously, with you guys, but also, like, there’s definitely some big stuff coming in Q1 that I think will be… will be well received and, like, fully publicly available, and any kind of preview or just training I can get, I will… I will share with you guys. Let me make a note of that just to follow up.
259 00:34:38.289 ⇒ 00:34:40.369 Holly Condos: But I think the… Thanks.
260 00:34:41.250 ⇒ 00:34:42.080 Hugo Pegley: What’s that?
261 00:34:42.080 ⇒ 00:34:43.810 Holly Condos: That would be great, thank you.
262 00:34:43.810 ⇒ 00:34:50.080 Hugo Pegley: Of course, of course, yeah. I, I gotta make sure I don’t take anybody off by, like, sharing a, you know, Google Doc I’m not meant to share.
263 00:34:50.080 ⇒ 00:34:53.830 Uttam Kumaran: No, I mean, we’ll… I read the blog and stuff, so we can get it just, like.
264 00:34:53.830 ⇒ 00:34:59.960 Hugo Pegley: Yeah, I’ll try and get you behind the curtain look a little bit, like, I think that’s pretty reasonable, given the business case.
265 00:35:00.460 ⇒ 00:35:19.149 Hugo Pegley: So, okay, so assets, AI, getting you set up in PartnerStack. I guess, from your perspective, looking at your, kind of, sales conversations you have now, what kind of volume, maybe just not the revenue level, but just, new org level, are you, kind of, anticipating for Q1?
266 00:35:19.690 ⇒ 00:35:31.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, this is what I think, Greg, we should talk. I mean, we… our business is growing a lot, and so we have several people that, like, again, once we sort of have a play around
267 00:35:31.570 ⇒ 00:35:40.259 Uttam Kumaran: standing up product analytics, or getting product analytics help back on track, we will just basically… we’re gonna go run a play on a ton of circle back, so…
268 00:35:40.380 ⇒ 00:35:54.700 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I feel like this quarter was actually probably less of product analytics than we’ve ever done. Usually, we have 3 or… we have 3 or 4 active product analytics clients that are, like, net new. I think README was already an amplitude…
269 00:35:54.830 ⇒ 00:36:06.199 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, they weren’t doing anything… I don’t know, whatever. They were, like, it was sort of, like, messed up for a while. Default, like, yeah, I’m gonna go cancel theirs and get them a new one. Ellie, I don’t know also whether we…
270 00:36:06.400 ⇒ 00:36:16.090 Uttam Kumaran: that was a net new, but we should… at any moment, we’ll have 3 to 5, like, product analytics customers. We have 2 additional net… we have 2 additional…
271 00:36:16.560 ⇒ 00:36:30.129 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, 2 or 3 clients right now who, Greg, I’ll loop you into, that both have expressed interest… all 3 have expressed interest in product analytics that we will drive towards Amplitude. So, we will probably at least have
272 00:36:30.830 ⇒ 00:36:38.139 Uttam Kumaran: like, 3 to 5 a quarter, I’m guessing. Got it. And it sort of depends on if this just becomes a bigger segment of our work.
273 00:36:38.190 ⇒ 00:36:44.450 Uttam Kumaran: I think what we found is, like, you know, part of our business started as just doing product analytics. Now.
274 00:36:44.490 ⇒ 00:37:00.520 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, it’s oftentimes, like, the run… how long we can stay in there is shorter, so now what we do is we come in on, like, real bigger transformation work, and then we drive and turn on product analytics as part of that. So, I don’t know, I feel good about a lot of our
275 00:37:00.660 ⇒ 00:37:08.329 Uttam Kumaran: customers that currently don’t, you know, we don’t do product analytics work, like, being able to turn that on. So, probably, like, 3 to 5, net new.
276 00:37:08.980 ⇒ 00:37:10.020 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect. We’re all set.
277 00:37:10.020 ⇒ 00:37:10.880 Hugo Pegley: That’s great to hear.
278 00:37:11.390 ⇒ 00:37:17.129 Hugo Pegley: One other question I had, do you guys, deploy guides and surveys right now? Have you had that use case?
279 00:37:18.820 ⇒ 00:37:20.189 Uttam Kumaran: Greg, I don’t know what we’re doing.
280 00:37:20.190 ⇒ 00:37:32.179 Greg Stoutenburg: I mean, README’s not using either, but this is a good time, actually, to talk about guides, because I’m experimenting with something right now to try to nudge the client in that direction.
281 00:37:33.230 ⇒ 00:37:34.959 Hugo Pegley: Okay, yeah, so the…
282 00:37:35.200 ⇒ 00:37:43.390 Hugo Pegley: guides and services… so I was at Command AI, which was a guides and surveys tool. We were acquired by Amplitude, so that’s my bread and butter. I think it’s a great product.
283 00:37:43.500 ⇒ 00:37:58.039 Hugo Pegley: And from what it sounds like, you’re actually not a narrow analytics, you know, implementation partner. You’re really providing value across the whole business. Do you guys have, like, a Pendo or, you know, another tool that you’re using for guides and surveys?
284 00:37:58.040 ⇒ 00:38:05.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we did recommend something for survey. Should we… no, we did recommend Amplitude for survey for,
285 00:38:05.190 ⇒ 00:38:11.659 Uttam Kumaran: another client of ours. Okay. I, because I… I… yeah, usually when it’s… when someone’s, like, I surveys, I just…
286 00:38:11.810 ⇒ 00:38:17.130 Uttam Kumaran: in our internal Slack, I’m like, what do we recommend? Though I feel like we did recommend Amplitude surveys
287 00:38:17.550 ⇒ 00:38:19.829 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the other day, or something, but…
288 00:38:20.300 ⇒ 00:38:22.979 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, maybe we can get more, more, kind of, knowledge.
289 00:38:22.980 ⇒ 00:38:28.209 Hugo Pegley: Have you guys used it a lot? Or, I mean, it’s not the most complicated, but have you deployed… it sounds like you haven’t really…
290 00:38:28.210 ⇒ 00:38:32.140 Uttam Kumaran: That one, we just recommended a client that was using
291 00:38:32.320 ⇒ 00:38:42.770 Uttam Kumaran: they were… they were deciding on it, but I don’t think they… again, they’re one of the people that, next quarter, we’re gonna pitch them on a product analytics sprint, and so Amplitude is gonna be part of that. I don’t…
292 00:38:43.030 ⇒ 00:38:47.820 Uttam Kumaran: Think they, they ended up doing it, so… yeah, we weren’t involved. Got it.
293 00:38:48.660 ⇒ 00:38:50.670 Hugo Pegley: Okay, okay.
294 00:38:50.750 ⇒ 00:38:53.130 Greg Stoutenburg: I was just checking, it’s an add-on on Plus.
295 00:38:53.590 ⇒ 00:38:54.150 Hugo Pegley: Yeah.
296 00:38:54.350 ⇒ 00:38:54.820 Greg Stoutenburg: Yup.
297 00:38:54.820 ⇒ 00:39:01.609 Hugo Pegley: So it’s… so it’s an add-on on Plus. It’s not that crazy expensive, but I think it… I think it scales.
298 00:39:01.700 ⇒ 00:39:03.230 Greg Stoutenburg: So I think.
299 00:39:03.490 ⇒ 00:39:07.879 Hugo Pegley: It sounds like guides and surveys could be a good new hook, also, for your users.
300 00:39:07.880 ⇒ 00:39:08.520 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
301 00:39:08.520 ⇒ 00:39:20.370 Hugo Pegley: the main sell for Amplitude, which you guys know, but it’s just getting… it’s… it’s one of those things that I think they started saying two years ago, it was kind of BS, and now it’s, like, actually true. It’s like, we’re a platform. They’re trying to sell the platform. Like, actually, now we kind of are a platform.
302 00:39:20.370 ⇒ 00:39:22.590 Uttam Kumaran: Now that you added this type of stuff, yes, because.
303 00:39:22.590 ⇒ 00:39:22.970 Hugo Pegley: Really enjoyed it.
304 00:39:22.970 ⇒ 00:39:25.939 Uttam Kumaran: I had to go buy a whole other tool for overlay guides.
305 00:39:25.940 ⇒ 00:39:26.500 Hugo Pegley: with.
306 00:39:26.500 ⇒ 00:39:37.520 Uttam Kumaran: surveys. But you have, you already own, sort of, the front-end layer, it makes a lot of sense. But yeah, I mean, I don’t know, we, like, we used to recommend somebody else for surveys, like, a few years ago, so…
307 00:39:37.890 ⇒ 00:39:40.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I know the Flash Company, we use something else for guide.
308 00:39:40.860 ⇒ 00:39:46.499 Hugo Pegley: Yeah. You can tell your marketing… Do everything here. Like, go into amplitude. This is not just for product and data.
309 00:39:46.500 ⇒ 00:39:48.210 Hugo Pegley: Get your marketers in here.
310 00:39:48.210 ⇒ 00:40:10.490 Hugo Pegley: Yeah. Get them basic understanding of how Amplitude works, they can create a chart and create a cohort. And now, I can go as, you know, Marketer A, and I can run a guide, a three-step product tour. They can build that. I’m a marketer, I can, you know, I can do… I can do a survey, I can do an MPS score, like, there’s just… there is, I think, some opportunity there. Again, maybe you don’t get too many questions on that. If it starts to come up, I think it’s a.
311 00:40:10.490 ⇒ 00:40:28.049 Uttam Kumaran: No, but it’s also, we don’t… we sometimes don’t ask, and a lot of the work we do for people is tool consolidation, because we come in and there’s, like, there’s, like, a hundred things going on, and someone just bought something at some point, so a lot of what we do will be like, oh, you guys have, like, 3 different product analytics snippets somewhere, like, you should consolidate.
312 00:40:28.050 ⇒ 00:40:30.909 Uttam Kumaran: And also, yeah, if we go look at, like, hey, you guys are using…
313 00:40:30.990 ⇒ 00:40:35.510 Uttam Kumaran: like, a JotForm or something else for surveys, like, you should just consolidate here.
314 00:40:35.660 ⇒ 00:40:43.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we have one client that’s literally… yeah, they have Formstack or something, and we’re like, okay, you guys should just totally consider Amplitude, so…
315 00:40:43.930 ⇒ 00:40:44.490 Hugo Pegley: Yeah.
316 00:40:44.680 ⇒ 00:40:46.240 Hugo Pegley: So,
317 00:40:46.470 ⇒ 00:40:52.640 Hugo Pegley: I… I feel really good about this. I’m all good on my end. Do you guys have any, further questions or anything I can answer?
318 00:40:53.720 ⇒ 00:41:15.389 Greg Stoutenburg: I think for my part, just repeating the ask, that basically anything that you can share about way of assets, or, you know, I understand there’s gated training for part, you know, high-level partners only, but anything that we can get from you that sort of just legitimizes the engagement, the more we can say, hey, check out this, you know, check out our special Amplitude stuff, Amplitude experts, we’re gonna nail your product analytics, it’s gonna drive your business.
319 00:41:15.390 ⇒ 00:41:21.249 Greg Stoutenburg: that’s the message that we want to be able to deliver. So, yeah. For me, that’s just a repeat ask.
320 00:41:22.090 ⇒ 00:41:22.770 Uttam Kumaran: Definitely.
321 00:41:22.770 ⇒ 00:41:23.320 Hugo Pegley: Yeah.
322 00:41:24.180 ⇒ 00:41:31.099 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s it. Yeah. This is great. I’m finally glad to connect, and like, yeah, we are trying to do a lot more business with y’all.
323 00:41:31.220 ⇒ 00:41:41.789 Uttam Kumaran: Yep. Yeah, so, like, happy to make that happen however we can, and I think it was helpful to hear from you, you know, Hugo, about, like, where your focus is, so that’s where we’re also driving a lot of business, too, so…
324 00:41:42.120 ⇒ 00:41:46.490 Hugo Pegley: Let’s do it. Who would be the best person to invite to PartnerStack? What would the email be?
325 00:41:46.870 ⇒ 00:41:51.299 Uttam Kumaran: I would invite Holly, you can… I think it’s just HollyCondis at brainforge.ai.
326 00:41:51.300 ⇒ 00:41:54.600 Holly Condos: Yeah, I’m, it’s on our email thread, Hugo.
327 00:41:54.990 ⇒ 00:41:59.010 Hugo Pegley: I’ll invite you, Holly, and what I would recommend doing is,
328 00:41:59.440 ⇒ 00:42:07.400 Hugo Pegley: is, we’ll get you set up, terms of service, you know, get you set up in there, custom commission. We’ll want to test the link.
329 00:42:07.800 ⇒ 00:42:19.100 Hugo Pegley: We can either go through and do that yourself at your own pace. If you email me, you’ll pay, you know, do a monthly plan, you’ll pay for it, and then once you let me know what email, I’ll have the team refund you on Stripe.
330 00:42:19.100 ⇒ 00:42:35.200 Hugo Pegley: But we just want to make sure that your commission is getting tracked correctly in PartnerStack, like, make sure all the clicks are showing up, your referrals. PartnerStack’s pretty straightforward, but, you know, they do have some training, and I’m happy to connect you to, you know, the partnerships team or their support if there’s anything you need help with.
331 00:42:35.200 ⇒ 00:42:55.099 Hugo Pegley: Okay. But I think from there, then, if we get that done, you know, by the holidays, the new year is really about getting those first three to five clients in the door for you, through PartnerStack, you know, the plus plans purchase. As that’s going along, I can start to build a case for, all of the kind of co-branded and
332 00:42:55.100 ⇒ 00:43:02.059 Hugo Pegley: you know, more advanced opportunities we discussed, and I will also be sure to follow up with, in the next couple weeks, any assets I can get my hands on.
333 00:43:02.060 ⇒ 00:43:05.860 Holly Condos: Cool. Yeah, and then our side, too, like, anything… if you guys are able to do…
334 00:43:05.860 ⇒ 00:43:11.199 Uttam Kumaran: even higher discount or support. It’ll make our case for switching people onto our, like.
335 00:43:11.340 ⇒ 00:43:16.590 Uttam Kumaran: turning something off, turning onto ours, I’m like, if you come with us, we’re gonna get a couple things. Would be helpful.
336 00:43:16.810 ⇒ 00:43:20.859 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think anybody is gonna, like, kinda gawk at that, but, like, again.
337 00:43:21.090 ⇒ 00:43:23.840 Uttam Kumaran: Just another way for us to make it super, super easy.
338 00:43:24.680 ⇒ 00:43:37.860 Hugo Pegley: I… I am trying… I’m desperately trying to do this, and you’d be shocked at how difficult it is, and Stripe, actually. Our team is okayed it, it’s all good. Stripe is really hard. Like, they have this beta with couponing that’s a lot more dynamic, but we don’t have access yet.
339 00:43:37.860 ⇒ 00:43:38.210 Uttam Kumaran: mid.
340 00:43:38.740 ⇒ 00:43:40.610 Uttam Kumaran: process couponing, or some… or, like, mid.
341 00:43:40.610 ⇒ 00:43:43.810 Hugo Pegley: But even, like, so even for…
342 00:43:43.920 ⇒ 00:43:50.840 Hugo Pegley: Like, right now, we can basically do, like, dollar off or percentage off, but the second you try and do anything, like, only monthly or only for this.
343 00:43:50.840 ⇒ 00:43:51.389 Uttam Kumaran: Good morning.
344 00:43:51.390 ⇒ 00:44:09.820 Hugo Pegley: comes in this way, it gets really… like, we just want to have a Brainforged code. Boom. You get this discount, and that’s really hard for us to do right now. We did a one-month trial offer, which is not as relevant for you guys, but we… and it took all this engineering, and it worked really well, but now they’re like, we don’t want to do all that engineering again. We’re waiting for Stripe. So anyway…
345 00:44:09.820 ⇒ 00:44:17.379 Hugo Pegley: Long story short, I think 6 months out, I would be very hopeful that there’s a Brainforge coupon code that gets you, like, you know, a monthly discount.
346 00:44:17.380 ⇒ 00:44:24.520 Uttam Kumaran: Because even if some people have started on it, and if we had that, they would easily be like, yeah, let’s just, like, do another one. I think they’d be totally fine with that.
347 00:44:24.810 ⇒ 00:44:42.739 Hugo Pegley: Exactly, exactly. So, I think we do have annual discounts already, so there’s a standard, you know, 20-30% annual discount right now, so if you get people in the door on annual, they can pay up front, and that’s gonna be a heavy discount for them if they’re really committed. I think that, you know, that’s an option.
348 00:44:42.740 ⇒ 00:44:47.240 Uttam Kumaran: What do you find is, like, the time between that? Like, do you find that people start and, like.
349 00:44:47.590 ⇒ 00:44:49.490 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like, a few months in.
350 00:44:49.490 ⇒ 00:44:50.020 Hugo Pegley: Well…
351 00:44:50.020 ⇒ 00:44:51.890 Uttam Kumaran: They, like, measure consumption, or is it…
352 00:44:52.220 ⇒ 00:44:56.970 Uttam Kumaran: like, I understand if you’re switching from a past provider, because you can kind of understand the event volume.
353 00:44:57.160 ⇒ 00:45:06.270 Hugo Pegley: that’s the thing, it’s hard to say for… I haven’t worked with many partners like you who are, like, doing a lot of really robust implementation. 99% of people I work with
354 00:45:06.290 ⇒ 00:45:17.319 Hugo Pegley: they get referred onto Starter, and later they upgrade, but the top of the funnel is the Starter plan. Sure. From what I have seen with, with existing Plus customers, a lot of it is, like.
355 00:45:17.320 ⇒ 00:45:36.719 Hugo Pegley: we come in on a minimum plus plan, because we need some of the added functionality, we need more charts, we need more MTUs, and then, you know, consistent upgrading. And then, they get offers, like, we ran a seasonal offer, like, you know, upgrade to Plus now for annual, so some people will take those, like, alright, we’re clearly using amplitude, let’s save some money. Yeah.
356 00:45:36.830 ⇒ 00:45:55.270 Hugo Pegley: But, yeah, I think, you know, we’ll leave that up to you guys. You guys, you clearly know Amplitude, you know your sales structure for now, it’s just gonna be kind of standard checkout flow. As long as the tracking is working, we’re gonna be good. And then I think, like, Q2 and on, that’s when the case for more co-branding, custom offers, all that stuff will be… will be possible, so…
357 00:45:55.690 ⇒ 00:45:56.280 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
358 00:45:57.450 ⇒ 00:45:59.120 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you for the time, yeah, I appreciate it.
359 00:45:59.120 ⇒ 00:46:02.119 Hugo Pegley: Of course, yeah, so glad we got together before the holidays, this is, this is.
360 00:46:02.120 ⇒ 00:46:03.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is great, yeah.
361 00:46:03.700 ⇒ 00:46:06.219 Greg Stoutenburg: Yeah, great. Appreciate it, and tell Beth to say hi.
362 00:46:06.580 ⇒ 00:46:08.110 Holly Condos: I will. Cheers.
363 00:46:08.110 ⇒ 00:46:08.520 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks, everyone.
364 00:46:08.520 ⇒ 00:46:09.050 Hannah Wang: Bye. Bye.
365 00:46:09.050 ⇒ 00:46:10.130 Holly Condos: Take care.