Meeting Title: Brainforge Recruitment Discussion with Harry Chaw Date: 2025-12-15 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Harry Chaw
WEBVTT
1 00:00:14.380 ⇒ 00:00:16.149 Harry Chaw: Hey, UTM, can you hear me?
2 00:00:17.410 ⇒ 00:00:18.509 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, can you hear me?
3 00:00:19.400 ⇒ 00:00:21.650 Harry Chaw: Oh, my bad, let me turn up my volume.
4 00:00:21.800 ⇒ 00:00:22.540 Harry Chaw: Can you try…
5 00:00:24.950 ⇒ 00:00:25.519 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me?
6 00:00:25.520 ⇒ 00:00:26.900 Harry Chaw: Yeah, you gotta hear me.
7 00:00:27.590 ⇒ 00:00:28.460 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.
8 00:00:28.700 ⇒ 00:00:32.299 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks, Sarah, I’m just, coming back from, like, a client meeting, so it’s just…
9 00:00:32.500 ⇒ 00:00:34.899 Uttam Kumaran: Just getting home. How’s everything?
10 00:00:35.270 ⇒ 00:00:38.639 Harry Chaw: are good on my end, also just getting off a client meeting, so…
11 00:00:38.640 ⇒ 00:00:42.250 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, how’s the month going?
12 00:00:43.050 ⇒ 00:00:52.750 Harry Chaw: It’s pretty busy. We’re trying to close out a lot. There’s some stuff that we’re trying to push to go live in the early years, so it is a busy holiday season, to say the least.
13 00:00:52.750 ⇒ 00:01:03.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, same here. We… I feel like we have a couple of clients that are, like, pushing to have a bunch of stuff done this month before they go out on leave.
14 00:01:03.980 ⇒ 00:01:05.580 Uttam Kumaran: And,
15 00:01:05.930 ⇒ 00:01:13.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but it’s been good, like, we’re… we’re a small company, and so it’s awesome to be getting, like, a rush of business and to help people when they’re…
16 00:01:13.970 ⇒ 00:01:20.349 Uttam Kumaran: you know, stuck, so it’s been good. But yeah, just, like, locked in. Yeah. Locked in pretty heavily.
17 00:01:21.940 ⇒ 00:01:29.640 Harry Chaw: Yeah, I actually wanted to learn more a bit about, Brainforge, and just, like, seeing what type of clients you work with. I did see you guys have…
18 00:01:29.990 ⇒ 00:01:33.259 Harry Chaw: the government of Kyrgyzstan, if I’m correct, that you guys?
19 00:01:33.260 ⇒ 00:01:38.980 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, we did a engagement with that, with them, we just did a workshop for them.
20 00:01:39.090 ⇒ 00:01:50.590 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, we, so yeah, we’re… Brainforge is a company I started, you know, a few years ago, like, two and a half years ago. We’ve… we’ve worked so far with, you know, almost, like, 30-plus clients.
21 00:01:50.930 ⇒ 00:02:01.180 Uttam Kumaran: And mainly around data analytics and AI, so my background is in, building data platforms and building data teams, and so…
22 00:02:01.500 ⇒ 00:02:04.340 Uttam Kumaran: I worked in industry for a while, and then…
23 00:02:04.870 ⇒ 00:02:15.559 Uttam Kumaran: decided to start this business after, you know, just leading data teams myself, and then slowly kind of bootstrapped and scaled the business. So we have about 16 people right now.
24 00:02:16.230 ⇒ 00:02:18.930 Uttam Kumaran: starting to grow, you know, every week, I feel like.
25 00:02:19.310 ⇒ 00:02:28.459 Uttam Kumaran: And also starting to grow our client base, so we’re working with larger, you know, more sophisticated clients every day, and trying to sort of get into more enterprise, long-term engagements.
26 00:02:28.600 ⇒ 00:02:34.149 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, it’s been good, and then, you know, we built the business, you know, pretty heavily with AI, so…
27 00:02:34.200 ⇒ 00:02:48.820 Uttam Kumaran: part of our service offering also happens to be, you know, building, you know, agentic workflows, building agents, building, you know, low-code automation systems for folks, which has been great. So that’s, like, sort of the scope
28 00:02:49.270 ⇒ 00:02:56.730 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, I’m here in Austin. Torta team is a little bit everywhere, you know, a bunch of people here in the States, then a bunch of people
29 00:02:56.900 ⇒ 00:03:15.310 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sort of scattered abroad. But yeah, we’re just sort of reaching out, and I’m learning a little bit about the consulting industry, every day, even though I, you know, happen to run a consultancy, I feel like I’m learning a lot about what it’s like to, you know, be at a
30 00:03:15.480 ⇒ 00:03:32.640 Uttam Kumaran: how do we figure out how to scale this business? And so, we’re at a couple million in revenue, we’re sort of looking to get to the next phase, and sort of thinking about bringing in, you know, leadership that wants to sort of take over either clients or segments, and also, like, trying to think about, like, what is our…
31 00:03:33.220 ⇒ 00:03:44.389 Uttam Kumaran: you know, what is our staffing needs, and how do we move from just having, like, teams of people that want to work for clients to people that actually want to run and own different parts of the business, you know? So that’s, like, that’s where we’re at right now.
32 00:03:46.460 ⇒ 00:03:58.339 Harry Chaw: Yeah, interesting stuff. Even if we don’t accept the role, I want you to know that is I’m excited for all the things that you’re working on. It sounds very cool to be leading and growing a business like that yourself.
33 00:03:58.800 ⇒ 00:04:05.979 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, appreciate it. It’s… it is really cool to talk about it. It is extremely stressful every day.
34 00:04:05.980 ⇒ 00:04:09.159 Harry Chaw: I can only imagine what you’re going through, I can only imagine.
35 00:04:09.160 ⇒ 00:04:26.799 Uttam Kumaran: I feel… I feel really proud to even share, like, all the things that I just shared. Like, those are all things we’ve worked super, super hard on, but I feel lucky to be able to talk to someone like you, and actually be like, hey, we have opportunity, and try to explore. So, no, I appreciate the kind words. It means a lot.
36 00:04:27.040 ⇒ 00:04:35.540 Harry Chaw: Yeah, so let me, give you my background, just to give you an overview, and then let me know what you’re expecting for this role that…
37 00:04:35.540 ⇒ 00:04:36.290 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.
38 00:04:36.290 ⇒ 00:04:39.810 Harry Chaw: So, myself, just like you, a lot of
39 00:04:39.980 ⇒ 00:04:48.399 Harry Chaw: analytics and background in my upbringing. Studied industrial engineering, so I have a background in process improvement, a little bit of manufacturing.
40 00:04:48.680 ⇒ 00:05:08.449 Harry Chaw: But decided to have my career set in analytics and data, given that a lot of folks were talking about big data back in the day. So, from there on out from college, I worked at various marketing agencies, looking at how to optimize… using analytics to optimize their reporting, optimize how they want to allocate marketing spend.
41 00:05:08.450 ⇒ 00:05:17.679 Harry Chaw: that was the core sum of my first two roles, and then after that, joined Deloitte and worked on an assortment of projects ranging from
42 00:05:17.870 ⇒ 00:05:22.679 Harry Chaw: Translating data science models into more business language to…
43 00:05:23.040 ⇒ 00:05:32.340 Harry Chaw: help an airline with their loyalty program, also setting up customer data platforms with various clients, and right now I’m trying to stand up a website for a…
44 00:05:33.610 ⇒ 00:05:35.929 Harry Chaw: You can’t say who, but, you know, just another client, so…
45 00:05:36.100 ⇒ 00:05:42.569 Harry Chaw: It’s, it is a breadth of work, so I’ve had analytics, and now I’m stepping into product management to have
46 00:05:42.710 ⇒ 00:05:49.750 Harry Chaw: The full view of how a data product is both implemented and then used by the business user as the… as a former analytics person.
47 00:05:50.080 ⇒ 00:05:51.390 Uttam Kumaran: Great, okay, cool.
48 00:05:51.820 ⇒ 00:05:56.549 Uttam Kumaran: What, what made you kind of do this switch from industrial engineering into, like, this stuff?
49 00:05:57.300 ⇒ 00:06:11.009 Harry Chaw: Yeah, I… I toured a… so industrial engineering is predominantly manufacture-oriented. I also… I actually started a consulting club where we went out to improve local businesses in the area of San Luis Obispo.
50 00:06:11.340 ⇒ 00:06:11.770 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
51 00:06:11.770 ⇒ 00:06:15.670 Harry Chaw: So, I kind of feel like I relate to you in that regard, trying to, like, get little…
52 00:06:15.790 ⇒ 00:06:33.799 Harry Chaw: little projects going for folks, in that sense, and just trying to, like, improve businesses, like, you know, with clients. So I did miss that aspect of it, we’re just trying to, like, win clients. That being said, manufacturing-oriented, I went to a bunch of manufacturing sites, and just did not see myself working in a factory day in and day out.
53 00:06:34.190 ⇒ 00:06:35.820 Harry Chaw: Right. And then there’s just…
54 00:06:36.140 ⇒ 00:06:42.069 Harry Chaw: The trend of data is just growing more and more, so it makes absolutely no sense for me not to hop on that wave right now.
55 00:06:42.640 ⇒ 00:06:57.180 Uttam Kumaran: I agree. I mean, that’s my whole career, but it has just gotten crazier, you know, and AI is just helping us do what we do faster, and I feel like we’re one of the few, like, consultancies that’s, like.
56 00:06:57.410 ⇒ 00:07:02.980 Uttam Kumaran: really positioned to just, like, take advantage. Like, we’re not sort of, locked in because we…
57 00:07:03.410 ⇒ 00:07:08.630 Uttam Kumaran: Because of just, like, being in the industry for a long time, we’re super new, so… We
58 00:07:08.930 ⇒ 00:07:17.009 Uttam Kumaran: Take advantage of all the speed, you know, improvements and quality that come with that, and we’re able to win bigger deals and deliver them faster and cheaper.
59 00:07:17.510 ⇒ 00:07:21.869 Uttam Kumaran: Which is awesome, you know? But I feel very lucky that that’s sort of the case right now.
60 00:07:22.330 ⇒ 00:07:28.170 Harry Chaw: Yeah, I can, only give you, like, high-level views of, like, how slow Deloitte works, in some days.
61 00:07:28.810 ⇒ 00:07:32.539 Harry Chaw: You know how it is, the bigger the ship, the longer it takes to turn it.
62 00:07:33.670 ⇒ 00:07:49.109 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, to tell you the truth, like, I mainly know consulting just from, like, friends that work in consulting, and I’ve worked with some consultants at companies I’ve been at, and yeah, it’s, like, extremely slow sometimes, but I can tell, like, some places need that pace, but also, like.
63 00:07:49.410 ⇒ 00:07:58.839 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of companies just want, like, tons of, like, want output, and, like, I feel like we’re starting to compete, you know, in a big way, even for a company like our size.
64 00:07:58.970 ⇒ 00:08:03.429 Uttam Kumaran: And just the amount of time we’ve been in business, we’re starting to compete really, really well, so…
65 00:08:03.660 ⇒ 00:08:09.500 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so I guess, like, you know, for us to kind of tell you about
66 00:08:09.700 ⇒ 00:08:20.949 Uttam Kumaran: what we’re looking… the reason I like your background is that you both worked, sort of, in omnichannel marketing, but also, you know, started moving up from just
67 00:08:21.090 ⇒ 00:08:25.770 Uttam Kumaran: You know, being in the marketing, like, data world into, like, actually, you know.
68 00:08:26.250 ⇒ 00:08:33.340 Uttam Kumaran: being more of a TPM, and sort of… I think you’ve seen a lot of things in MarTech marketing analytics. A lot of what we do for clients
69 00:08:33.549 ⇒ 00:08:51.470 Uttam Kumaran: You know, one part of our business is focused on, you know, MarTech, marketing analytics, like, looking at top-of-funnel conversion, like, doing, like, CRO-type stuff. But really, like, what we’re looking for in terms of, like, a role is really, like, people that want to come in and, like, own, like, an entire, like.
70 00:08:51.670 ⇒ 00:08:55.619 Uttam Kumaran: Client engagement, and potentially either own, like, a…
71 00:08:55.930 ⇒ 00:09:07.669 Uttam Kumaran: like, a service line or own, like, a specific industry. I mean, we’re growing, we now have, like, around 15 clients, and my job and my business partner, our job is just to grow this as fast as we can.
72 00:09:07.690 ⇒ 00:09:18.189 Uttam Kumaran: But we’ve gotten great, you know, testimonials from folks, and we’re doing really great work. I think right now, our business, just for the fact that we had to hire a lot of people to do the work, we’re lacking, like.
73 00:09:18.430 ⇒ 00:09:33.579 Uttam Kumaran: you know, that… that, like, lieutenant class in our company that can actually, like, run engagements end-to-end. So, from the sale all the way to the execution to the renewal, you know, me and my business partner are there, one of us is there on every client.
74 00:09:33.940 ⇒ 00:09:38.279 Uttam Kumaran: Not that we’re doing all the work anymore, but we are still involved.
75 00:09:38.380 ⇒ 00:09:54.840 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re involved in making sure that things work, and that we find the next opportunity, and we grow. And that’s something that we’re looking to bring in people. We’re also looking to bring in people that, like, sort of understand what is slow about, like, big consulting, and…
76 00:09:55.040 ⇒ 00:10:06.460 Uttam Kumaran: also, like, want to be at a place where we’re moving almost closer to, like, a product company internally, in terms of, like, how much we’re improving week to week. But that… all that benefit just goes back to
77 00:10:06.790 ⇒ 00:10:10.169 Uttam Kumaran: You know, making our client experience, like, way better, so…
78 00:10:11.380 ⇒ 00:10:15.330 Harry Chaw: So, in terms of the delivery of what you guys provide to clients, is it just…
79 00:10:15.700 ⇒ 00:10:22.009 Harry Chaw: out of the mill of analytics, or is it just specific to whatever? Is there, like, a core offering you guys are offering beyond just…
80 00:10:22.420 ⇒ 00:10:25.649 Harry Chaw: You know, analytics as a service, data products as a service.
81 00:10:25.800 ⇒ 00:10:36.839 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so we, we kind of do, like, full-stack data, so we come in, and we’re typically… we’re not… we don’t do any type of staff aug or, like, dev shop type stuff. All of it is, like, partnered with
82 00:10:36.840 ⇒ 00:10:48.309 Uttam Kumaran: the C-suite or, like, heads of growth at a bunch of these companies. Most of our ICP is typically at least, like, 100 million.
83 00:10:48.450 ⇒ 00:11:02.270 Uttam Kumaran: And for us, like, we’re coming in and we sort of are setting the roadmap for, like, how analytics and the people are trying to drive digital transformation, they’re trying to kind of move and upgrade their analytics stack, and that’s where sort of we
84 00:11:02.340 ⇒ 00:11:10.510 Uttam Kumaran: come in. And so, that could be implementing warehouse, ETL, dbt modeling, all the way to implementing, like, something like Amplitude, or…
85 00:11:10.740 ⇒ 00:11:24.790 Uttam Kumaran: you know, different attribution systems, and then, of course, driving towards analytics and actually having data dictate strategy. So we’re sort of, like, throughout the entire data lifecycle, and we sort of staff
86 00:11:25.250 ⇒ 00:11:36.499 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of like, as a client matures with us, we can sort of staff more towards the strategy and analytics side, and the, you know, data engine stuff starts to just run pretty well, so…
87 00:11:38.490 ⇒ 00:11:39.140 Harry Chaw: Okay.
88 00:11:39.300 ⇒ 00:11:47.699 Harry Chaw: And for this role that you’re looking for, is it gonna be… am I expected to be in the weeds of the details of implementation, or am I leading a team to implement?
89 00:11:48.730 ⇒ 00:11:49.770 Harry Chaw: It…
90 00:11:49.950 ⇒ 00:11:52.409 Uttam Kumaran: I think it kind of depends,
91 00:11:52.620 ⇒ 00:11:56.590 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we are… we do, like, the best way to…
92 00:11:56.760 ⇒ 00:12:03.799 Uttam Kumaran: You know, lead a team is to have experience doing each of the things, but we’re not expecting folks necessarily to…
93 00:12:04.070 ⇒ 00:12:17.229 Uttam Kumaran: like, come in… we have staff, and so we have people that are junior, mid-level analysts, data engineers, analytics engineers. But what we don’t have is someone that can wake up and basically be on the hook for the fact that this client
94 00:12:17.530 ⇒ 00:12:34.189 Uttam Kumaran: succeeds and grows with us. Right now, we have, like, a lot of functional people on the team that are doing, like, one function, right? But there’s a difference to that than, like, truly leading an engagement, being a partner to the client, and, like, setting the… setting the roadmap and setting the direction for the team, and owning the fact that, like, it works out.
95 00:12:34.420 ⇒ 00:12:45.660 Uttam Kumaran: like, we have a team, a mix of people, but nobody, I think, wakes up every day and is like, this client needs to succeed, and I have the control and the ownership to make that happen, you know?
96 00:12:46.050 ⇒ 00:12:50.969 Harry Chaw: Okay, so it’s something like a cross between a customer success and an engagement manager.
97 00:12:50.970 ⇒ 00:12:51.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
98 00:12:51.870 ⇒ 00:13:04.399 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, yes. But, like, we’re thinking of… I mean, this is also where, like, sort of open to working with, you know, people that are interested in the role and, like, how to shape it. We also want to make this a place where there’s, like.
99 00:13:04.450 ⇒ 00:13:14.480 Uttam Kumaran: actually a lot of upward, you know, potential, meaning, like, if you start to assist on the sale and the renewal, there’s, like, a lot of upside. Like, I would rather have less people and just pay
100 00:13:14.670 ⇒ 00:13:25.660 Uttam Kumaran: our people much more, because we’re also now able to do a lot of things faster with AI internally, and so we’re able to staff and secure, you know, deals and outcomes with
101 00:13:25.790 ⇒ 00:13:26.989 Uttam Kumaran: a lot less…
102 00:13:27.210 ⇒ 00:13:38.649 Uttam Kumaran: people, which is great, and so I think there’s just a lot more money to go around. And then, yeah, I think it is a sort of a cross between customer success manager and then, like, an engagement manager.
103 00:13:38.780 ⇒ 00:13:43.609 Uttam Kumaran: But, you know, again, I think it’s, like, beyond just playing that role on one client.
104 00:13:43.780 ⇒ 00:14:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: you’re sort of almost, like, leading the engagement entirely. You know, clients still come to us, and they like that we’re… we sell, and then we’re sort of through with them on the whole engagement, and it just can’t be, you know, us, you know, forever, because we just have to, like, kind of continue to go sell the next biggest deal.
105 00:14:03.260 ⇒ 00:14:08.430 Harry Chaw: Right, and that’s natural for how a growing consultancy should be.
106 00:14:09.440 ⇒ 00:14:17.520 Harry Chaw: Okay, so I think I have the gist of the role and the cult, but what about the culture in terms of, like, the environment, and I mean.
107 00:14:17.660 ⇒ 00:14:21.640 Harry Chaw: You are the CEO, so I want to know what your take is on how you’re setting.
108 00:14:21.640 ⇒ 00:14:22.270 Uttam Kumaran: Dear.
109 00:14:23.040 ⇒ 00:14:25.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and of course, like, after this, I’m more…
110 00:14:26.600 ⇒ 00:14:29.469 Uttam Kumaran: Happy to connect you with other people.
111 00:14:29.830 ⇒ 00:14:37.460 Uttam Kumaran: other people in the company. The biggest thing for us is, like, trying to hire people that are bar raisers and smarter than us.
112 00:14:37.580 ⇒ 00:14:41.360 Uttam Kumaran: I think… Hold on one second.
113 00:14:46.080 ⇒ 00:14:56.019 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the biggest thing is for us to hire, bar raisers and people that are actually, like, able to move the needle, and come in and, like, kind of
114 00:14:56.370 ⇒ 00:15:02.919 Uttam Kumaran: show, like, what’s next in consulting for us. Like, we’re not trying to bring on people that are exactly the same in terms of skill set.
115 00:15:03.190 ⇒ 00:15:11.879 Uttam Kumaran: Or really, like, you know, even… I think there’s a lot of tendency in a growing consultancy like ours to hire people that,
116 00:15:12.020 ⇒ 00:15:21.439 Uttam Kumaran: like, we just need to fit, like, a certain role. And so we’ve been hiring very, very carefully, and hiring people that, you know, want to actually stay at a business like this as we, like.
117 00:15:21.440 ⇒ 00:15:32.699 Uttam Kumaran: you know, grow and expand. And so there’s just a lot of opportunity, like, we’ve given a lot of opportunity to people that are very junior in their career. We’ve also given a lot of opportunity to people that, you know, are… are…
118 00:15:32.790 ⇒ 00:15:42.570 Uttam Kumaran: are just trying to find why they joined back… why they joined consulting in the first place, which is to drive tons of client outcomes. And so,
119 00:15:42.770 ⇒ 00:15:49.569 Uttam Kumaran: I think a lot of what I’m trying to sort of figure out with these next set of roles is just, you know, how do we staff?
120 00:15:49.690 ⇒ 00:15:58.149 Uttam Kumaran: that type of person. The culture internally, you know, I’ve worked in startups my whole career, and so, really, it’s like, my goal is to build
121 00:15:58.240 ⇒ 00:16:10.160 Uttam Kumaran: a culture that is… somewhat has the same sense of urgency, you know, as a lot of the places that I’ve worked, but also lacks that, like, fear-based mindset that commonly comes with
122 00:16:10.280 ⇒ 00:16:26.540 Uttam Kumaran: you know, being, in a fast-growing environment. Like, I worked at a lot of startups that were just, like, really, really intense, and you have to deal with a lot of assholes, and, like, that’s not this place at all. Like, that stuff doesn’t really enter the door. I would say it’s a lot less,
123 00:16:26.920 ⇒ 00:16:44.169 Uttam Kumaran: there’s, like, basically very little politics. It’s really, like, driven purely by customer outcomes, and everybody is very, very smart and… but also very, very kind and pathetic. So that’s, like, a little bit about, like, how we’re sort of thinking about hiring and, you know, the culture internally.
124 00:16:45.530 ⇒ 00:16:54.859 Harry Chaw: Okay, cool, cool. I mean, that’s really all the questions I have at the current moment. How have you guys set up your interview process?
125 00:16:55.720 ⇒ 00:17:12.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, we’re not… so this is sort of, like, something where we’re just sort of proactively reaching out to people, so, you know, I think it’s just… it’s nice to chat. I mean, I’m happy to… I would love to connect you with, you know, another person internally, just to… just to… but we’re sort of figuring out, like, what the actual job description is this month.
126 00:17:12.670 ⇒ 00:17:28.519 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s not, like, a formal interview right now or anything, I’m just sort of reaching out and saying hi, understanding, like, sort of, like, who’s in the market and, you know, what you’re interested in. So for me, it’s just helpful to know, like, is this something you would be interested in? Did you have, sort of… what was, like, sort of your…
127 00:17:28.940 ⇒ 00:17:36.039 Uttam Kumaran: your goal, like, you know, in the next few years within consulting, were you planning on just staying with Deloitte, or, like, what were you thinking about next?
128 00:17:36.870 ⇒ 00:17:56.369 Harry Chaw: So, I am on track to become a manager in 2003… 2008, my bad. 2028, my bad. Oh my god, cannot talk right now. So, that’s, yeah, 3 years from now, but the manager role at Deloitte is effectively, like, a director level, where you’re managing multiple projects for a client engagement, while also selling.
129 00:17:56.530 ⇒ 00:18:04.790 Harry Chaw: So, I’m right now leading at least the functional side of a project, and being that core member there, and leading QA folks.
130 00:18:04.910 ⇒ 00:18:15.870 Harry Chaw: In, some systems integration testing at the moment, so definitely not a stranger to seeing how a project goes from end to end, especially from requirements gathering to
131 00:18:16.050 ⇒ 00:18:19.330 Harry Chaw: Development to actually getting it out the door.
132 00:18:21.890 ⇒ 00:18:37.289 Harry Chaw: But I think it is very aligned in terms of trying to go somewhere that I’m able to grow. With Deloitte, I think the main issue that I’ll see is that with bureaucracy, I may or may not get that promotion in 2028. Yeah. So we’ll see.
133 00:18:37.290 ⇒ 00:18:38.619 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a long time from now.
134 00:18:38.770 ⇒ 00:18:39.390 Harry Chaw: Yeah.
135 00:18:40.820 ⇒ 00:18:49.800 Harry Chaw: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that’s also the appeal of a smaller company. I feel like I should… I thought you said 203… I thought you said 2038 when you first said it, and I was like, oh… That’s way too long.
136 00:18:49.800 ⇒ 00:18:52.910 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, damn, that’s, like, fucking a long time.
137 00:18:54.040 ⇒ 00:19:06.019 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, this is the fun part. It’s like, look, I think we run an interesting place. We’re growing really, really fast. People really love the type of work that we do, and I think we are starting to bring on some, you know, ex…
138 00:19:06.390 ⇒ 00:19:25.120 Uttam Kumaran: big four consultants who come in, and they’re like, wow, I’ve never seen a place run like this. I think, good or bad, like, I’ve never worked at those places, but I just try to run this, like, the best, you know, company I can for the… as good of client outcomes, and then try to, you know, build a place that people want to work.
139 00:19:25.170 ⇒ 00:19:28.470 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think that’s the case in a lot of companies these days, like.
140 00:19:28.710 ⇒ 00:19:33.610 Uttam Kumaran: I think a lot of people will just, like, go to a company, try to get out what they can, and go.
141 00:19:33.680 ⇒ 00:19:51.309 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t… like, no shade, like, I used to do that too, but definitely not trying to build a company like that here. Like, we want people who feel like they can stay here, grow, make more money, get… do more, and I would rather have a smaller team of people that are locked in than, like, build a huge consultancy, like…
142 00:19:51.460 ⇒ 00:20:04.449 Uttam Kumaran: we’re not gonna scale headcount, you know, linearly with revenue. You know, we’re going to continue to drive towards outsized margins and continue to do work that we can raise the price
143 00:20:04.640 ⇒ 00:20:18.389 Uttam Kumaran: on, versus, like, we don’t pitch anymore. We have… we’re starting to add a lot of floors, you know, just because we’re… we’re able to get work that’s really, really specialized, and they want us to work at the pace that we work, and they’re willing to pay for that, so…
144 00:20:18.720 ⇒ 00:20:23.829 Uttam Kumaran: that’s a lot of, like, kind of, like, what I’m thinking about, you know? So it’s helpful just to hear your perspective and…
145 00:20:24.460 ⇒ 00:20:36.150 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, hear a lot of the work that you’re… you’re doing, and hear that, okay, there isn’t, like, a little bit of alignment with the type of work that we’re doing, but also, I think we’re just trying to do it at such a pace that allows us to compete with, like, the big folks, you know?
146 00:20:41.130 ⇒ 00:20:41.680 Uttam Kumaran: Correct.
147 00:20:41.680 ⇒ 00:20:49.169 Harry Chaw: Yeah, I’m definitely interested, but I’ll be transparent, I am trying to wait until after the New Year’s to get my head out of the door.
148 00:20:49.370 ⇒ 00:20:53.149 Harry Chaw: In terms of just, like, I have a slosh of stuff to get through.
149 00:20:53.730 ⇒ 00:21:05.209 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that’s fine, yeah. I mean, I think as part of the next step, I mean, again, we’re just talking, we’re just basically chatting with people. I would love, maybe in the new year, I can connect you with another person on my team.
150 00:21:05.420 ⇒ 00:21:13.780 Uttam Kumaran: Just to chat, I think we’ll have basically a pretty well-defined role in here in the next two weeks that I can surface to you.
151 00:21:14.290 ⇒ 00:21:20.780 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, but we are… I think we are looking for folks to come and actually lead client engagements in exactly this, like, omni-channel
152 00:21:21.040 ⇒ 00:21:25.859 Uttam Kumaran: you know, omnichannel marketing, growth, so I think it could… it could be good.
153 00:21:26.370 ⇒ 00:21:27.050 Harry Chaw: Darn.
154 00:21:27.580 ⇒ 00:21:36.090 Harry Chaw: Well, yeah, keep me posted, and again, if our paths don’t align, I’ll be rooting for you on LinkedIn. I really love this idea of you going out there and creating your own consultancy.
155 00:21:36.580 ⇒ 00:21:38.090 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I appreciate it, thank you so much.
156 00:21:39.760 ⇒ 00:21:41.430 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thanks, Harry, appreciate it.
157 00:21:41.430 ⇒ 00:21:44.930 Harry Chaw: Alright, I’ll talk to you on the next one. Thanks, man. Bye.