Meeting Title: Brainforge Equity and Shares Discussion Date: 2025-11-30 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:02:26.940 ⇒ 00:02:28.060 Robert Tseng: No kidding!
2 00:02:29.980 ⇒ 00:02:30.770 Robert Tseng: Oh!
3 00:02:32.710 ⇒ 00:02:36.090 Robert Tseng: That AJ fast off, A.J. fast break on, but…
4 00:06:07.080 ⇒ 00:06:07.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yo.
5 00:06:19.870 ⇒ 00:06:20.790 Uttam Kumaran: Hear me?
6 00:06:23.460 ⇒ 00:06:24.920 Robert Tseng: Hey. Bye.
7 00:06:28.230 ⇒ 00:06:29.229 Robert Tseng: What’d you eat?
8 00:06:30.120 ⇒ 00:06:31.449 Uttam Kumaran: Make quesadillas.
9 00:06:31.720 ⇒ 00:06:32.760 Robert Tseng: Oh, nice.
10 00:06:33.360 ⇒ 00:06:35.250 Uttam Kumaran: With leftover turkey.
11 00:06:35.770 ⇒ 00:06:36.690 Robert Tseng: Okay.
12 00:06:38.530 ⇒ 00:06:39.689 Robert Tseng: Where do you make the turkey?
13 00:06:40.320 ⇒ 00:06:43.720 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s from Jess’s house. I just reheated it.
14 00:06:44.030 ⇒ 00:06:46.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah, the turkey is always the toughest.
15 00:06:47.240 ⇒ 00:06:53.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so turkey, and then I made a little… Pico, and then…
16 00:06:53.570 ⇒ 00:07:00.080 Uttam Kumaran: Add some cheese, and then I made this, like, cilantro sauce a couple days ago, so I used that. Yeah, not bad.
17 00:07:00.270 ⇒ 00:07:01.520 Uttam Kumaran: high protein.
18 00:07:02.040 ⇒ 00:07:02.790 Robert Tseng: Nice.
19 00:07:04.030 ⇒ 00:07:04.910 Uttam Kumaran: What about you?
20 00:07:05.770 ⇒ 00:07:08.859 Robert Tseng: I just made, like, ramen.
21 00:07:12.990 ⇒ 00:07:18.079 Robert Tseng: ramen with an egg and some frozen broccoli. That’s what happens when I have to cook for myself.
22 00:07:22.000 ⇒ 00:07:22.980 Uttam Kumaran: That’s funny.
23 00:07:29.850 ⇒ 00:07:34.159 Robert Tseng: Well, I’m in the dock, and I’m, like, kind of filling in some stuff.
24 00:07:42.520 ⇒ 00:07:44.769 Robert Tseng: This is just the conversion questionnaire, right?
25 00:07:45.230 ⇒ 00:07:46.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
26 00:07:46.380 ⇒ 00:07:46.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
27 00:08:05.460 ⇒ 00:08:08.560 Uttam Kumaran: I also got us… Sorry?
28 00:08:08.880 ⇒ 00:08:11.780 Robert Tseng: I was gonna say, does my address matter?
29 00:08:13.270 ⇒ 00:08:21.399 Uttam Kumaran: Where is that? I haven’t even looked at this doc, literally, until, like, Could I… Oh, yeah.
30 00:08:21.910 ⇒ 00:08:23.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
31 00:08:24.410 ⇒ 00:08:26.649 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it may…
32 00:08:26.960 ⇒ 00:08:29.500 Robert Tseng: Does it have to be in Texas, since we’re doing this in Texas?
33 00:08:30.780 ⇒ 00:08:33.669 Uttam Kumaran: No, we’re not, so we’re gonna do it in Delaware.
34 00:08:34.360 ⇒ 00:08:34.789 Robert Tseng: By the way.
35 00:08:34.799 ⇒ 00:08:35.369 Uttam Kumaran: Fair enough.
36 00:08:35.929 ⇒ 00:08:37.279 Robert Tseng: Oh, oh, I see.
37 00:08:38.960 ⇒ 00:08:39.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I went…
38 00:08:39.360 ⇒ 00:08:41.860 Robert Tseng: We’re the ones leaving Delaware and going to Texas?
39 00:08:41.860 ⇒ 00:08:48.330 Uttam Kumaran: I went back and forth on it, basically…
40 00:08:52.130 ⇒ 00:08:59.749 Uttam Kumaran: Well, like, basically, it’s not clear, like, that the benefits outweigh the risks.
41 00:09:00.210 ⇒ 00:09:04.720 Uttam Kumaran: And ultimately… like.
42 00:09:07.910 ⇒ 00:09:15.079 Uttam Kumaran: Ultimately, I feel like it could just lead to questions if we need investment down the road.
43 00:09:15.810 ⇒ 00:09:26.870 Uttam Kumaran: So we ultimately decided not to do it. There are some companies re… like, coming to here, but they’re all, like, I feel like they all have a lot more, like, leverage.
44 00:09:27.070 ⇒ 00:09:29.769 Uttam Kumaran: And, I don’t know, I feel like it just…
45 00:09:30.650 ⇒ 00:09:32.929 Uttam Kumaran: It wasn’t so clear that it was, like.
46 00:09:35.110 ⇒ 00:09:40.919 Uttam Kumaran: it was, like, way more beneficial. In fact, it just felt like everybody was like, it’s kind of unknown.
47 00:09:41.130 ⇒ 00:09:45.959 Uttam Kumaran: Which is kind of sucked, like, I don’t like these types of answers, and I was like…
48 00:09:47.500 ⇒ 00:09:54.580 Uttam Kumaran: we can talk, like, yeah, I don’t know. Everybody just told me, like, dude, don’t fuck around, just do the Delaware.
49 00:09:55.110 ⇒ 00:09:56.490 Robert Tseng: Okay, sure.
50 00:09:56.490 ⇒ 00:10:00.939 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and they said that it’s… Delaware is, like, there’s a lot of precedent for…
51 00:10:01.350 ⇒ 00:10:04.919 Uttam Kumaran: like, the equity and stuff like that, and so that’s what I said.
52 00:10:05.430 ⇒ 00:10:06.020 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
53 00:10:15.490 ⇒ 00:10:21.580 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, in that case, I’ll just put, my address…
54 00:10:23.220 ⇒ 00:10:26.390 Robert Tseng: Although, I don’t want to change this all the time, so maybe I’ll just use my…
55 00:10:28.670 ⇒ 00:10:33.429 Uttam Kumaran: And then what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna put the company address as, like, a,
56 00:10:33.930 ⇒ 00:10:37.820 Uttam Kumaran: One of those virtual mailboxes, so they scan and send mail.
57 00:10:37.820 ⇒ 00:10:38.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
58 00:10:41.560 ⇒ 00:10:45.279 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I use one of those in Vegas right now.
59 00:10:46.910 ⇒ 00:10:48.160 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice.
60 00:10:57.390 ⇒ 00:11:10.019 Robert Tseng: Okay, so I guess, like, we’re discussing, like, shares, and also what, like, how much we’re setting aside for employees as well, or, like, kind of, what were you thinking?
61 00:11:11.300 ⇒ 00:11:15.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, maybe let’s… I think those are the two things… on my side.
62 00:11:17.200 ⇒ 00:11:22.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, everything else is kind of… Whatever.
63 00:11:22.920 ⇒ 00:11:24.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
64 00:11:24.790 ⇒ 00:11:27.569 Uttam Kumaran: So, I think, yeah, if I want to look at, like.
65 00:11:29.030 ⇒ 00:11:34.760 Uttam Kumaran: Item 10 and below, so they said, issue 10 million shares, It’s most common.
66 00:11:35.900 ⇒ 00:11:36.590 Robert Tseng: chapter.
67 00:11:36.760 ⇒ 00:11:40.359 Uttam Kumaran: There are two schools of thought when determining how many shares to authorize.
68 00:11:41.140 ⇒ 00:11:45.739 Uttam Kumaran: Authorized $5,000. Each year, you have to final annual report pay of franchise tax.
69 00:11:51.930 ⇒ 00:11:57.189 Uttam Kumaran: Authorize millions of shares. A part of the rationale is that individuals receive.
70 00:11:57.360 ⇒ 00:11:59.310 Uttam Kumaran: Feel like they’re receiving something.
71 00:12:01.480 ⇒ 00:12:05.809 Uttam Kumaran: Wow, really? This is the stupidest thing. I didn’t know they wrote this down?
72 00:12:06.290 ⇒ 00:12:08.959 Uttam Kumaran: The… this is the most important issue to equity.
73 00:12:22.310 ⇒ 00:12:27.170 Robert Tseng: I’ve been on the receiving end of both Both schools of thought.
74 00:12:27.960 ⇒ 00:12:31.550 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, dude, I don’t care. It’s like… I get it, but like…
75 00:12:31.880 ⇒ 00:12:38.100 Uttam Kumaran: It’s so stupid, but I get it. Like, I get that saying, like, you get 100,000 shares.
76 00:12:39.270 ⇒ 00:12:45.219 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. For me, it’s… I could care… I could care zero. It’s like… it’s a math problem.
77 00:12:47.000 ⇒ 00:12:47.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
78 00:12:48.850 ⇒ 00:12:53.780 Uttam Kumaran: If you think it’s gonna matter for folks, then we should just do the higher amount.
79 00:12:54.440 ⇒ 00:12:56.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think we should do the higher amount.
80 00:12:56.330 ⇒ 00:12:59.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, then… So be it.
81 00:13:00.170 ⇒ 00:13:00.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
82 00:13:03.410 ⇒ 00:13:05.710 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t know why… so I guess I’m gonna, like.
83 00:13:07.710 ⇒ 00:13:12.080 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m just gonna suggest changes here, so I can let Megan see it, too.
84 00:13:22.360 ⇒ 00:13:30.780 Uttam Kumaran: Investing of shares means a stockholder has a right to keep their shares over time. If a stockholder leaves the company owns unvested shares, the corporation has the option to repurchase at the original price.
85 00:13:31.000 ⇒ 00:13:37.950 Uttam Kumaran: Which, for 4 founders, used a par value. Founders of the startups typically invest their shares over 4 years.
86 00:13:38.890 ⇒ 00:13:45.500 Uttam Kumaran: That is what most sophisticated startup investors… if a founder leaves the company before they hit the one-year anniversary.
87 00:13:45.690 ⇒ 00:13:50.919 Uttam Kumaran: Company has the option to repurchase 100% when the first anniversary of the stock
88 00:13:52.290 ⇒ 00:13:54.829 Uttam Kumaran: That seems dumb. Why would we do that?
89 00:13:56.750 ⇒ 00:13:58.840 Uttam Kumaran: Why wouldn’t we just get the stock
90 00:14:00.460 ⇒ 00:14:04.630 Uttam Kumaran: Like, why have any vesting, or what was the… did we talk about this already?
91 00:14:07.590 ⇒ 00:14:09.729 Robert Tseng: I’m looking at it.
92 00:14:17.280 ⇒ 00:14:20.730 Robert Tseng: Which, for founders, is usually reported on through a lot.
93 00:14:49.640 ⇒ 00:14:54.739 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m looking at, do you remember we wrote this draft in July? I’ll send it to you on Zoom.
94 00:14:55.300 ⇒ 00:14:55.980 Robert Tseng: Okay.
95 00:15:01.380 ⇒ 00:15:07.539 Uttam Kumaran: But this was kind of when you were a bit nervous about law school, so I don’t know if you think this is, like.
96 00:15:08.430 ⇒ 00:15:09.780 Uttam Kumaran: It’s still valid.
97 00:15:10.360 ⇒ 00:15:11.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
98 00:15:11.510 ⇒ 00:15:13.589 Robert Tseng: Oh, I haven’t seen this in a while, yeah, let me see.
99 00:15:27.610 ⇒ 00:15:33.230 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I kind of want this past year to count for, like, something in this…
100 00:15:33.590 ⇒ 00:15:39.750 Robert Tseng: concept investing, I also…
101 00:15:44.350 ⇒ 00:15:46.849 Robert Tseng: Oh, okay, that’s already there, yeah.
102 00:15:47.070 ⇒ 00:15:52.250 Robert Tseng: then… 6% reserve? Yeah, I mean, I guess…
103 00:15:52.820 ⇒ 00:15:56.119 Robert Tseng: We didn’t… that was just a number we threw out there.
104 00:15:56.980 ⇒ 00:15:59.990 Robert Tseng: And then…
105 00:16:00.650 ⇒ 00:16:07.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, I think it… then it becomes quarterly vesting, up to my total equity, or whatever.
106 00:16:07.530 ⇒ 00:16:09.859 Robert Tseng: No 40… no, 9%.
107 00:16:10.490 ⇒ 00:16:12.290 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
108 00:16:45.320 ⇒ 00:16:53.320 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think this mostly holds true. I think it’s just the, reserve pool, I think we’re kind of renegotiating at this point.
109 00:16:53.930 ⇒ 00:16:55.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Because…
110 00:16:55.540 ⇒ 00:17:01.960 Robert Tseng: We were… we said 6% before, but now it looks like maybe we might do more. We might give up more.
111 00:17:02.200 ⇒ 00:17:03.230 Robert Tseng: Yes.
112 00:17:03.450 ⇒ 00:17:13.750 Robert Tseng: And then… Yeah, but other than that, I think my expectation was that, you know, we have had
113 00:17:14.589 ⇒ 00:17:17.720 Robert Tseng: Like, I kind of have to… I mean.
114 00:17:19.270 ⇒ 00:17:27.490 Robert Tseng: I haven’t earned to date, and then, like, I’m earning my quarter, my quarterly checkpoints. I think that’s still valid.
115 00:17:27.660 ⇒ 00:17:28.610 Robert Tseng: Okay.
116 00:17:29.100 ⇒ 00:17:37.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean… I… law school… I think is still, like…
117 00:17:37.520 ⇒ 00:17:44.709 Robert Tseng: I mean, I don’t… I don’t see a world where I go to do full-time law school. I think there was, like, that was a question mine… of mine.
118 00:17:45.160 ⇒ 00:17:47.819 Robert Tseng: I don’t think that’s gonna happen.
119 00:17:48.290 ⇒ 00:17:58.449 Robert Tseng: I don’t even know if I will fit… I will move on after the semester. I will… I think I’ll have a better answer by the end of the year. I have my finals in the next couple weeks, and then we’ll see how it goes.
120 00:18:03.070 ⇒ 00:18:05.050 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so…
121 00:18:08.970 ⇒ 00:18:09.879 Robert Tseng: No, I guess.
122 00:18:13.050 ⇒ 00:18:16.859 Robert Tseng: If that’s to be reflected in this somehow.
123 00:18:17.530 ⇒ 00:18:23.200 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’m okay, just because… I’m okay with not adjusting it, because…
124 00:18:23.740 ⇒ 00:18:28.210 Robert Tseng: even though I’m more certain that I’m not going to, like.
125 00:18:28.680 ⇒ 00:18:36.540 Robert Tseng: phase out and go full-time school. The fact that… I mean, for now, I’m still in school, so I’m okay with not having to
126 00:18:36.670 ⇒ 00:18:41.419 Robert Tseng: I don’t want to, like, lead you on in something that hasn’t actually, like, changed.
127 00:18:42.560 ⇒ 00:18:43.170 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
128 00:18:43.420 ⇒ 00:18:44.040 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
129 00:18:46.410 ⇒ 00:18:51.889 Uttam Kumaran: how do we want to do, like… so we do have the… I’ve already sent the Vixel stuff to Robin.
130 00:18:52.080 ⇒ 00:18:55.479 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, I guess, like.
131 00:18:55.760 ⇒ 00:18:59.820 Uttam Kumaran: Did we write somewhere what we’re thinking? I mean, now this is more… this is less…
132 00:19:00.420 ⇒ 00:19:06.140 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is sort of like… employees… You know?
133 00:19:06.140 ⇒ 00:19:08.179 Robert Tseng: How much do we want to give up for employees?
134 00:19:09.380 ⇒ 00:19:10.560 Uttam Kumaran: So…
135 00:19:10.780 ⇒ 00:19:13.079 Robert Tseng: Well, it’s employees and, and, like…
136 00:19:14.240 ⇒ 00:19:14.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah…
137 00:19:14.930 ⇒ 00:19:18.620 Robert Tseng: Other partners, advisors, or whatever, right?
138 00:19:20.110 ⇒ 00:19:24.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so let me see what I wrote down before,
139 00:19:42.510 ⇒ 00:19:47.819 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m pretty sure that… yeah, because I wrote down a bunch of this stuff, so…
140 00:20:34.360 ⇒ 00:20:36.080 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna look like this?
141 00:20:42.980 ⇒ 00:20:52.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, basically, it’s said to usually leave 10%, What I’m not sure… is…
142 00:20:53.180 ⇒ 00:20:58.239 Uttam Kumaran: If we don’t deplete the 10%, Like, what happens?
143 00:20:59.330 ⇒ 00:21:01.739 Uttam Kumaran: And if there’s any tax implications?
144 00:21:03.180 ⇒ 00:21:06.490 Uttam Kumaran: So I can… Ask about that.
145 00:21:07.580 ⇒ 00:21:16.040 Uttam Kumaran: Otherwise, like, for example, If the temp… if we decide that, like, anything remaining out of that just gets…
146 00:21:16.730 ⇒ 00:21:17.870 Uttam Kumaran: Split up.
147 00:21:18.540 ⇒ 00:21:23.219 Uttam Kumaran: Between us, Then that seems valid.
148 00:21:39.040 ⇒ 00:21:42.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah…
149 00:21:53.950 ⇒ 00:21:57.289 Robert Tseng: Oh, I guess we already have… we already had this, like.
150 00:22:02.790 ⇒ 00:22:08.080 Robert Tseng: 4% for advice. Is that what… is that how much we gave, Vixel?
151 00:22:08.080 ⇒ 00:22:09.279 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Yeah.
152 00:22:09.760 ⇒ 00:22:10.360 Robert Tseng: Okay.
153 00:22:12.150 ⇒ 00:22:16.270 Robert Tseng: So we still have another… and so it… yeah, you’re saying they’re just…
154 00:22:16.270 ⇒ 00:22:21.480 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I guess this is, like, what we… we didn’t say that it was gonna… I don’t think we said…
155 00:22:23.340 ⇒ 00:22:24.880 Uttam Kumaran: 10 total.
156 00:22:27.360 ⇒ 00:22:30.059 Uttam Kumaran: what I’m saying is it’s 10 plus the 4.
157 00:22:31.410 ⇒ 00:22:32.010 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
158 00:22:32.850 ⇒ 00:22:33.710 Robert Tseng: I see.
159 00:22:34.540 ⇒ 00:22:39.040 Uttam Kumaran: I guess the reason… the thing I don’t… it doesn’t matter…
160 00:22:41.320 ⇒ 00:22:45.789 Uttam Kumaran: I guess the only thing that matters if we run out and we have to reissue shares.
161 00:22:46.110 ⇒ 00:22:53.389 Uttam Kumaran: then there’s, like, a dilution event or something, I don’t know. So my only question here is I’m gonna ask Megan…
162 00:22:53.870 ⇒ 00:22:57.149 Uttam Kumaran: Is, are there tax implications?
163 00:22:57.780 ⇒ 00:23:05.699 Uttam Kumaran: of… Yeah, maybe I’ll ask, I’ll ask again.
164 00:23:07.900 ⇒ 00:23:09.450 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll ask Troy.
165 00:23:43.450 ⇒ 00:23:47.559 Uttam Kumaran: 2, the 4… Sounds good, yeah.
166 00:31:07.900 ⇒ 00:31:17.659 Robert Tseng: Okay, and then I left a couple more comments on the, I mean, the vesting thing that we talked about, and then as far as, like, officers go…
167 00:31:17.910 ⇒ 00:31:23.109 Robert Tseng: I just put out…
168 00:31:23.660 ⇒ 00:31:41.630 Robert Tseng: I… yeah, there… I think by Texas law, there needs to be a president, secretary, and treasurer. The chief… like, the CEO is, like, kind of up to board discretion, I guess. So, if we want to keep the kind of co-CEO wording, then we can do…
169 00:31:41.830 ⇒ 00:31:53.420 Robert Tseng: I mean, like, basically, you’re… you’re assigned presidents, and then we create a separate officer role that’s co-CEO, that’s assigned to both.
170 00:31:54.250 ⇒ 00:32:00.020 Robert Tseng: I mean, I can fill the rest, or you can put… but I think… yeah, I mean, I think that’s…
171 00:32:01.580 ⇒ 00:32:02.150 Robert Tseng: whatnot.
172 00:32:02.150 ⇒ 00:32:02.790 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
173 00:32:03.210 ⇒ 00:32:03.930 Robert Tseng: thought.
174 00:32:04.940 ⇒ 00:32:09.819 Robert Tseng: I believe that Warby Parker does something like that, but I could be wrong.
175 00:32:14.360 ⇒ 00:32:15.750 Robert Tseng: Whatever you like.
176 00:32:21.820 ⇒ 00:32:24.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I believe that’s…
177 00:32:35.310 ⇒ 00:32:38.060 Robert Tseng: Huh, interesting that they don’t have a CFO, though.
178 00:32:47.180 ⇒ 00:32:49.209 Robert Tseng: Well, I don’t really get it either.
179 00:32:50.350 ⇒ 00:32:51.909 Uttam Kumaran: I’m fine with that, it’s fine.
180 00:32:52.070 ⇒ 00:32:52.690 Robert Tseng: Okay.
181 00:33:06.530 ⇒ 00:33:14.189 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah, what do you think? You think 6% is enough for the team? I… I kind of… or 10%, I guess?
182 00:33:16.150 ⇒ 00:33:18.100 Robert Tseng: I was thinking, like…
183 00:33:19.900 ⇒ 00:33:27.179 Robert Tseng: Assuming that we take on more board or advisors as well beyond Vixel, we’ll need more shares with them.
184 00:33:28.060 ⇒ 00:33:32.560 Robert Tseng: I was expecting to give up maybe, like, 20% total.
185 00:33:38.190 ⇒ 00:33:40.809 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess it… I mean, it depends. I,
186 00:33:50.460 ⇒ 00:33:55.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t have a really great answer.
187 00:33:59.070 ⇒ 00:34:03.749 Uttam Kumaran: I think guidance typically is to just reserve 10, and then use that.
188 00:34:03.960 ⇒ 00:34:04.840 Uttam Kumaran: like…
189 00:34:05.400 ⇒ 00:34:11.160 Uttam Kumaran: You really think there’s gonna be folks that come in and get more? Like, you think there’s gonna be, like, a…
190 00:34:15.570 ⇒ 00:34:17.449 Uttam Kumaran: Like, an opportunity for that?
191 00:34:19.250 ⇒ 00:34:25.490 Robert Tseng: Well, let’s say we issue something to employees, like, what’s the max you would give to an employee?
192 00:34:29.400 ⇒ 00:34:36.529 Uttam Kumaran: I guess it’s… I don’t know, it’s so… it’s just hard. My whole view of this thing is so warped by…
193 00:34:38.570 ⇒ 00:34:43.080 Uttam Kumaran: Typical startups that I don’t know, I feel like I wouldn’t…
194 00:34:45.340 ⇒ 00:34:49.030 Uttam Kumaran: I wouldn’t… I don’t know, I feel like by default, we’re not gonna give.
195 00:34:49.170 ⇒ 00:34:55.480 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Or… there’s gonna be some… like, what Otter did at Flux was, like.
196 00:34:55.889 ⇒ 00:35:03.500 Uttam Kumaran: The year before they… they went for the sale, they issued… something.
197 00:35:03.790 ⇒ 00:35:08.480 Uttam Kumaran: And so that I’m, like, I’d be interested in.
198 00:35:08.700 ⇒ 00:35:13.349 Uttam Kumaran: But off-rip, I think, I mean, we would really probably go for just the people that are
199 00:35:14.040 ⇒ 00:35:15.560 Uttam Kumaran: Gonna join us.
200 00:35:15.890 ⇒ 00:35:19.190 Uttam Kumaran: You know, as a use in ca- instead of giving cash.
201 00:35:24.250 ⇒ 00:35:24.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
202 00:35:29.500 ⇒ 00:35:30.450 Uttam Kumaran: So…
203 00:35:36.270 ⇒ 00:35:43.939 Robert Tseng: Well, let’s say, like, we sold for $10 million, or valuation 10 million. 1%, 1% is 100K, right? And,
204 00:35:45.810 ⇒ 00:35:48.769 Robert Tseng: I guess if you were to give
205 00:35:49.420 ⇒ 00:35:51.469 Robert Tseng: I mean, I like that, because it’s gonna be…
206 00:35:51.470 ⇒ 00:35:55.709 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess in a $10 million scenario, yeah, it’s…
207 00:35:59.380 ⇒ 00:36:04.840 Uttam Kumaran: But I guess, like, I would… but in any situation, like, 100 grand…
208 00:36:07.880 ⇒ 00:36:11.850 Uttam Kumaran: we would offer cash. Like, that… I guess what I’m saying is…
209 00:36:12.100 ⇒ 00:36:15.729 Uttam Kumaran: From my perspective, we only use the equity for folks
210 00:36:16.050 ⇒ 00:36:19.420 Uttam Kumaran: Who… the cash is… is not enough.
211 00:36:19.570 ⇒ 00:36:20.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
212 00:36:20.890 ⇒ 00:36:22.460 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so…
213 00:36:23.450 ⇒ 00:36:29.980 Uttam Kumaran: Whereas in a startup, like, you could just join, and everybody’s getting RSUs and options, and it’s sort of willy-nilly.
214 00:36:30.220 ⇒ 00:36:33.190 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, nobody ends up even making to the cliff.
215 00:36:33.490 ⇒ 00:36:36.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So, this is maybe… I mean, it’s a good question for, like.
216 00:36:36.800 ⇒ 00:36:39.189 Uttam Kumaran: I, I think Scott probably had the only…
217 00:36:40.130 ⇒ 00:36:45.530 Uttam Kumaran: sort of perspective that, like, I really… You know, made sense.
218 00:36:45.970 ⇒ 00:36:48.470 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, the couple things that he told us, but…
219 00:36:49.310 ⇒ 00:36:57.750 Uttam Kumaran: I would just use it for the folks that are like, hey, we’re gonna basically take this business to 10 million, because if, dude, if we get it to 10, then…
220 00:36:57.960 ⇒ 00:36:59.819 Uttam Kumaran: You can sell it for $30.
221 00:37:00.070 ⇒ 00:37:03.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And it’s like… Yeah, it’s a… it’s a…
222 00:37:03.940 ⇒ 00:37:06.470 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a meaningful amount of money.
223 00:37:06.900 ⇒ 00:37:11.530 Uttam Kumaran: And I would just… that’s who, like, I would be interested in giving it to.
224 00:37:11.900 ⇒ 00:37:12.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
225 00:37:12.570 ⇒ 00:37:26.090 Uttam Kumaran: Or I would… I would certainly… I would certainly want to carve out some amount of whatever… if… if in the event of a sale, I would like to carve out an amount to provide, probably based on tenure.
226 00:37:26.410 ⇒ 00:37:28.379 Uttam Kumaran: To the folks that are still there.
227 00:37:28.500 ⇒ 00:37:29.440 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. You know?
228 00:37:29.980 ⇒ 00:37:37.740 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, beyond that, I’m only interested in the people that are gonna take… that are gonna get us.
229 00:37:37.950 ⇒ 00:37:39.329 Uttam Kumaran: You know, to that point.
230 00:37:42.900 ⇒ 00:37:50.129 Uttam Kumaran: So, we could carve out more. I guess this is, like, where… I don’t mind if we… if we carve out 20, as long as there’s no…
231 00:37:50.370 ⇒ 00:37:54.970 Uttam Kumaran: It doesn’t affect anything upon the sale when that amount converts.
232 00:37:55.650 ⇒ 00:38:01.449 Uttam Kumaran: what I’m worried about is that if that number’s too high, and you do a grant to us or something.
233 00:38:01.940 ⇒ 00:38:09.830 Uttam Kumaran: Like, do we lose out on… for example, one of the big things That changed recently is…
234 00:38:09.990 ⇒ 00:38:17.869 Uttam Kumaran: QSBS, they changed it. So, before, you had to hold Equity in their company for…
235 00:38:18.340 ⇒ 00:38:29.249 Uttam Kumaran: like, at least 5 years to qualify for long-term capital gains. Now they changed it. So now, in, like, 2 years or 3 years, it starts with, like, 50%.
236 00:38:30.030 ⇒ 00:38:32.029 Uttam Kumaran: For us, what that means is, like.
237 00:38:32.490 ⇒ 00:38:37.120 Uttam Kumaran: In an ideal situation, we would have… the clock already starts ticking, which means
238 00:38:37.540 ⇒ 00:38:49.839 Uttam Kumaran: In an event of a sale, we want to be able to sell that equity amount for as low as tax amount as possible, ideally the long-term capital gains versus the short-term. So QSBS, that’s what it allows.
239 00:38:50.160 ⇒ 00:38:59.460 Uttam Kumaran: And so they just changed the rules under… Like, under this administration, And…
240 00:38:59.960 ⇒ 00:39:05.260 Uttam Kumaran: basically, that’s what I want to make sure, that as much of our…
241 00:39:05.940 ⇒ 00:39:13.680 Uttam Kumaran: As much of… as much of what we can sell is excluded from… As much tax as possible.
242 00:39:14.140 ⇒ 00:39:15.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
243 00:39:15.470 ⇒ 00:39:17.560 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so that’s why, like.
244 00:39:18.000 ⇒ 00:39:20.589 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I’m sort of guarding against.
245 00:39:22.470 ⇒ 00:39:25.009 Uttam Kumaran: So, basically, what it is, is, like.
246 00:39:25.350 ⇒ 00:39:35.249 Uttam Kumaran: If you hold… if you hold QSBS-qualified stock after 5 years, there is 100% exclusion of the gains, of the capital gains.
247 00:39:35.950 ⇒ 00:39:39.279 Uttam Kumaran: So, it’s, like, the best thing ever.
248 00:39:39.800 ⇒ 00:39:40.580 Robert Tseng: Huh.
249 00:39:41.270 ⇒ 00:39:45.960 Uttam Kumaran: Previously, it was fine, and that’s why, like, a lot of these folks, they mess up
250 00:39:46.160 ⇒ 00:40:03.080 Uttam Kumaran: Because you have to do… you have to elect QSBS right when you issue the shares. And it’s not common for it to… like, many times when you’re a startup employee, they tell you, oh, go ask your employer to issue it as a QSBS, and they never do it, because they’re like, well, you’re just a random person.
251 00:40:03.390 ⇒ 00:40:09.460 Uttam Kumaran: For us, like, this is the mo- this is probably the most important tax thing to keep in mind.
252 00:40:11.980 ⇒ 00:40:17.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but we also were, like, kind of 2 years late to… I mean, a lot of… yeah, quite a bit.
253 00:40:17.830 ⇒ 00:40:21.500 Uttam Kumaran: We are, like, I mean, that’s the big thing. That being said, like…
254 00:40:22.990 ⇒ 00:40:27.240 Uttam Kumaran: If we make it to 3 years, then…
255 00:40:27.960 ⇒ 00:40:38.360 Uttam Kumaran: we get 50% of… like, it used to be, like… basically, I was like, okay, it’s gonna be 5, then whatever, but now that… if we make it to 3, 50% of the gain is excluded from…
256 00:40:38.360 ⇒ 00:40:41.629 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s substantial. Yeah.
257 00:40:46.410 ⇒ 00:40:49.329 Robert Tseng: That’s the goal, man, we’re gonna sell in 3 years.
258 00:40:50.530 ⇒ 00:40:51.580 Uttam Kumaran: I mean…
259 00:40:52.560 ⇒ 00:40:57.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I… I mean, I think it’s totally possible, but that’s the… that’s probably what I want to make sure.
260 00:40:58.340 ⇒ 00:41:04.449 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I don’t know, dude, do you think there’s gonna be people that end up with more than 1% of the company, and do you think there’s gonna be more than 6 of them?
261 00:41:06.910 ⇒ 00:41:17.879 Robert Tseng: Well, somehow, I don’t really know how the equity with Dixel works. The 4% seems kind of high for… and the fact that we still pay them $500 a month. That makes me kind of… meh.
262 00:41:18.210 ⇒ 00:41:22.709 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, that we already… that’s done. I don’t think we get ready to go.
263 00:41:22.710 ⇒ 00:41:25.299 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I guess, but I’m just…
264 00:41:25.300 ⇒ 00:41:25.780 Uttam Kumaran: Whatever.
265 00:41:25.780 ⇒ 00:41:29.280 Robert Tseng: At least just, like, don’t charge us the advisory fees anymore.
266 00:41:33.680 ⇒ 00:41:36.999 Robert Tseng: Yeah, but no, I mean, I…
267 00:41:37.940 ⇒ 00:41:43.509 Robert Tseng: I don’t think anybody will have more than 1%. I mean, unless it’s… yeah, no, even if it’s, like, in…
268 00:41:44.810 ⇒ 00:41:47.540 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, if anything, you can get up to there, maybe.
269 00:41:47.540 ⇒ 00:41:48.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
270 00:41:55.350 ⇒ 00:41:58.399 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, this is where, dude, it’s like, look, I…
271 00:41:58.680 ⇒ 00:42:04.650 Uttam Kumaran: I only have interest in giving the equity people that, like, sort of like what Scott said, that, like, are gonna be here.
272 00:42:05.690 ⇒ 00:42:06.409 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I agree.
273 00:42:06.410 ⇒ 00:42:08.829 Uttam Kumaran: travel, and I want that to be
274 00:42:08.980 ⇒ 00:42:12.159 Uttam Kumaran: Like, as little people as possible, or…
275 00:42:12.650 ⇒ 00:42:14.939 Uttam Kumaran: Everybody in the sale… in the event of a sale.
276 00:42:15.080 ⇒ 00:42:18.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Like, what I don’t want to do is what has always been done.
277 00:42:19.020 ⇒ 00:42:24.719 Uttam Kumaran: To me, which is just, like, everybody gets options, and they’re all, like, these, like, cliffs.
278 00:42:24.870 ⇒ 00:42:28.700 Uttam Kumaran: And then it just ends up being, like, you should’ve just… I would just pay cash.
279 00:42:29.150 ⇒ 00:42:30.959 Uttam Kumaran: To reduce the complexity.
280 00:42:31.230 ⇒ 00:42:31.989 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I agree.
281 00:42:31.990 ⇒ 00:42:34.770 Uttam Kumaran: basically con people. Like, I don’t want to do that.
282 00:42:35.250 ⇒ 00:42:37.800 Robert Tseng: And I would rather just have it be cash bonus.
283 00:42:38.100 ⇒ 00:42:42.919 Uttam Kumaran: And then, look, if there are people who were like, this is the core unlock.
284 00:42:43.380 ⇒ 00:42:49.340 Uttam Kumaran: then we… then we write them that, and they vest towards that, but maybe it’s kind of like how Scott mentioned, like.
285 00:42:50.070 ⇒ 00:42:54.540 Uttam Kumaran: We think about it more like shadow equity, Versus options.
286 00:42:54.790 ⇒ 00:43:02.670 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, again, that’s just, like, what I’ve… Yeah.
287 00:43:07.390 ⇒ 00:43:12.349 Uttam Kumaran: Because in a startup, at least there’s an opportunity for, like, a tender offer.
288 00:43:13.890 ⇒ 00:43:17.720 Uttam Kumaran: You know, or if you get big enough for there to be a secondary market.
289 00:43:17.910 ⇒ 00:43:20.299 Uttam Kumaran: In our company, there’s not really that.
290 00:43:20.660 ⇒ 00:43:21.260 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
291 00:43:21.500 ⇒ 00:43:24.919 Uttam Kumaran: So, the only reason this matters is in the event of an exit.
292 00:43:25.160 ⇒ 00:43:30.520 Uttam Kumaran: And so… I would only give it to the people that really drive us there.
293 00:43:30.940 ⇒ 00:43:33.510 Uttam Kumaran: And… Yeah.
294 00:43:34.760 ⇒ 00:43:50.649 Robert Tseng: Okay. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think the fact that we’re already doing… we’re already going to be doing some sort of variable comp and giving people more upside than they would have in a regular business, I mean, the best… the benefit is that there is actual more cash to gain for them.
295 00:43:54.210 ⇒ 00:43:54.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
296 00:43:55.100 ⇒ 00:43:55.730 Robert Tseng: Damn.
297 00:44:07.840 ⇒ 00:44:13.879 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I mean, we can… I could also run… we can run this whole thing by Scott, too.
298 00:44:14.130 ⇒ 00:44:14.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
299 00:44:16.310 ⇒ 00:44:16.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
300 00:44:17.670 ⇒ 00:44:22.500 Robert Tseng: Well, we left some comments, so we’ll wait for them to get back to… Megan’s gonna get back to us, right, and then…
301 00:44:22.500 ⇒ 00:44:32.049 Uttam Kumaran: The biggest thing on the timeline here is I wanted to line it up with the end of year, which they said is possible, which just makes the tax really clean.
302 00:44:32.400 ⇒ 00:44:33.709 Robert Tseng: Okay, let’s do that.
303 00:44:33.710 ⇒ 00:44:35.470 Uttam Kumaran: A short-term tax.
304 00:44:35.730 ⇒ 00:44:40.019 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just annoying, it’s not, like, the end of the world, but, like, we just happen to be…
305 00:44:40.680 ⇒ 00:44:42.720 Uttam Kumaran: Happin’ to be able to do it, so…
306 00:44:42.720 ⇒ 00:44:43.460 Robert Tseng: Okay.
307 00:44:43.460 ⇒ 00:44:45.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s it.
308 00:44:49.900 ⇒ 00:44:54.459 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, if there’s nothing else on this, yeah, maybe let’s talk about the brain trust stuff, like…
309 00:44:54.670 ⇒ 00:44:55.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, the.
310 00:44:55.250 ⇒ 00:44:56.380 Robert Tseng: Yeah, what do you think?
311 00:44:56.940 ⇒ 00:45:00.610 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, my gut instinct is Scott, just because…
312 00:45:01.020 ⇒ 00:45:01.600 Robert Tseng: It’s.
313 00:45:01.600 ⇒ 00:45:10.329 Uttam Kumaran: He’s kind of like a legend. Like, he’s kind of done it a couple times. I liked his perspective. It’s not like I didn’t like the other folks, actually, all of them were very…
314 00:45:10.990 ⇒ 00:45:13.859 Uttam Kumaran: like, smart. I think the second dude…
315 00:45:13.860 ⇒ 00:45:15.260 Robert Tseng: How was the Chris guy?
316 00:45:15.920 ⇒ 00:45:23.050 Uttam Kumaran: Chris was the last dude… yeah, Chris was good. Like, but he was a lot more metrics-focused.
317 00:45:24.120 ⇒ 00:45:27.169 Uttam Kumaran: Like, he asked a lot of questions about…
318 00:45:27.760 ⇒ 00:45:32.730 Uttam Kumaran: the metrics of our business, but he’s a very, very friendly guy, like, very, very helpful.
319 00:45:33.150 ⇒ 00:45:38.679 Uttam Kumaran: I think he was a lot more… we talked a lot more about just, like, the metrics of the business.
320 00:45:38.820 ⇒ 00:45:47.960 Uttam Kumaran: And… Like, thinking about margin, Thinking about, like, partnerships.
321 00:45:48.910 ⇒ 00:45:52.790 Uttam Kumaran: And other, like, kind of just, like, more… some sales motion.
322 00:45:53.170 ⇒ 00:45:59.709 Uttam Kumaran: the guy in the middle who I talked to, he was much more… he comes from a sales background.
323 00:45:59.830 ⇒ 00:46:03.879 Uttam Kumaran: Like, he was basically eating sales at the… he started a…
324 00:46:04.160 ⇒ 00:46:09.910 Uttam Kumaran: He started a technical agency with a guy, his first company, but they took on investment
325 00:46:10.390 ⇒ 00:46:18.780 Uttam Kumaran: Built the business, but they ended up with, like, not that much of it, sold it, and then he started another one, and this one they’re doing completely bootstrapped.
326 00:46:19.540 ⇒ 00:46:22.290 Uttam Kumaran: He was totally about enterprise sales.
327 00:46:22.670 ⇒ 00:46:30.410 Uttam Kumaran: And in particular, they sell… technology into oil and gas. This guy’s based in Houston.
328 00:46:30.750 ⇒ 00:46:38.990 Uttam Kumaran: So… But that guy’s all sort of enterprise sales, but also his core experience is doing it not lean.
329 00:46:39.160 ⇒ 00:46:46.190 Uttam Kumaran: he’s doing it lean now, but, like, I don’t know, we’re not looking for peers, right? So, that was probably the thing that…
330 00:46:47.240 ⇒ 00:46:51.620 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, again, like, super nice guy, and was also like, I’ll help you guys no matter what, but…
331 00:46:51.740 ⇒ 00:47:06.369 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like it’s probably between… Scott… And, scott and Chris, so…
332 00:47:06.370 ⇒ 00:47:06.920 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
333 00:47:07.430 ⇒ 00:47:10.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t know. I really like Scott. I… I don’t know, I felt like…
334 00:47:11.440 ⇒ 00:47:20.459 Robert Tseng: I did too. I was like, I think this is the guy, but I also didn’t talk to the other guy, so… No, I mean, you could watch my video with other… I was looking for it, I didn’t see it.
335 00:47:20.460 ⇒ 00:47:26.639 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, shit, it may not even be there, because I think it may have been his Zoom.
336 00:47:27.110 ⇒ 00:47:31.180 Robert Tseng: It might have been his. What about the… what about the third guy, Chris? I thought it was the third…
337 00:47:31.180 ⇒ 00:47:31.900 Uttam Kumaran: heart.
338 00:47:32.470 ⇒ 00:47:34.120 Robert Tseng: Oh, I know, sorry, the second guy.
339 00:47:35.000 ⇒ 00:47:38.620 Uttam Kumaran: Second guy… yeah, he was more of, like, the sales guy.
340 00:47:38.960 ⇒ 00:47:42.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah, what’s… is he… is he recorded? What’s his name?
341 00:47:42.330 ⇒ 00:47:45.979 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me figure out what was the name again.
342 00:47:48.490 ⇒ 00:47:51.359 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, frankly, like, we should just…
343 00:47:51.570 ⇒ 00:48:00.840 Uttam Kumaran: See if they can help, if anyone can help us anyways, but… this guy’s name was…
344 00:48:01.770 ⇒ 00:48:06.080 Uttam Kumaran: Darren Cook. Oh, yeah, this one should be here.
345 00:48:08.210 ⇒ 00:48:11.080 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have it here. Yeah, watch this one.
346 00:48:11.900 ⇒ 00:48:16.190 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll send it to you on Slack.
347 00:48:19.500 ⇒ 00:48:20.140 Robert Tseng: Okay.
348 00:48:23.190 ⇒ 00:48:29.209 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel like he was probably the one that, like, if you’re like, look, our main objective is to crack Enterprise.
349 00:48:30.810 ⇒ 00:48:34.159 Uttam Kumaran: This guy’s probably solely focused on that.
350 00:48:34.940 ⇒ 00:48:48.810 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t… but I don’t know whether… definitely not as technical of a background, and… and this is his first time doing it sort of, like, with very… this one he’s doing sort of, like, all self-funded, and he’s in oil and gas.
351 00:48:49.140 ⇒ 00:48:55.200 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like… I don’t know. But, watch it. I… I still kind of think that, like.
352 00:48:56.120 ⇒ 00:49:01.500 Uttam Kumaran: Scott’s the one, and Scott was the only one out of the two that have done it, that I’ve advised.
353 00:49:02.140 ⇒ 00:49:03.499 Uttam Kumaran: That’s part of the program.
354 00:49:03.680 ⇒ 00:49:04.360 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
355 00:49:05.210 ⇒ 00:49:11.629 Uttam Kumaran: And had an opinion about… like, I liked that he was like, here’s what… Is good and bad.
356 00:49:12.540 ⇒ 00:49:14.430 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s, like, what I can help with, you know?
357 00:49:16.440 ⇒ 00:49:17.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
358 00:49:25.100 ⇒ 00:49:33.770 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, the guy Chris Hart, though, dude, his business was crushing. I think they were doing… he showed me his P&L from, like, 2019, and they were making
359 00:49:34.030 ⇒ 00:49:35.699 Uttam Kumaran: 2 or 3 million a month.
360 00:49:39.580 ⇒ 00:49:42.460 Uttam Kumaran: I was like, that’s sick, dude.
361 00:49:43.100 ⇒ 00:49:45.020 Robert Tseng: The… the oil and gas guy?
362 00:49:45.020 ⇒ 00:49:46.440 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, the last guy.
363 00:49:46.630 ⇒ 00:49:47.370 Robert Tseng: Chris?
364 00:49:47.500 ⇒ 00:49:48.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
365 00:49:49.470 ⇒ 00:49:55.460 Uttam Kumaran: he was actually very… I mean, he was, like, really, really help, like, just thinking about all the different metrics.
366 00:49:56.300 ⇒ 00:49:57.360 Uttam Kumaran: And…
367 00:49:58.340 ⇒ 00:50:03.939 Uttam Kumaran: But I didn’t get much… I didn’t get into… get into it with him about, like, culture, or, like…
368 00:50:06.480 ⇒ 00:50:14.619 Uttam Kumaran: hiring… the next crew. It was much more about just, like, the operating metrics and…
369 00:50:14.790 ⇒ 00:50:18.900 Uttam Kumaran: some stuff about partnerships, although he said, like, he never… they didn’t really…
370 00:50:19.010 ⇒ 00:50:23.849 Uttam Kumaran: Do a lot on partnerships, so that may also be… A bit tougher.
371 00:50:24.210 ⇒ 00:50:24.790 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
372 00:50:30.330 ⇒ 00:50:32.900 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, he said he wished he did, but… yeah.
373 00:50:34.010 ⇒ 00:50:41.290 Robert Tseng: This guy sells… he does lead gen, and he sells 2 to 3 million a month and has no LinkedIn presence.
374 00:50:42.750 ⇒ 00:50:43.830 Robert Tseng: Chris Hart?
375 00:50:44.510 ⇒ 00:50:47.920 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think this was… dude, he… I think he’s… I think,
376 00:50:49.740 ⇒ 00:50:53.080 Uttam Kumaran: No, this was… this was at his old company, at Level.
377 00:50:53.390 ⇒ 00:50:54.390 Robert Tseng: Oh, I see.
378 00:50:56.740 ⇒ 00:50:58.750 Uttam Kumaran: So, level, L-E-V-V-E-L.
379 00:50:58.750 ⇒ 00:51:00.950 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, okay. Alright, I can…
380 00:51:00.950 ⇒ 00:51:06.710 Uttam Kumaran: At that company in 2019, they were doing, like, two and a half a month.
381 00:51:08.300 ⇒ 00:51:10.770 Robert Tseng: Man. Sold it to Endava.
382 00:51:11.700 ⇒ 00:51:12.660 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
383 00:51:27.130 ⇒ 00:51:31.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m curious, like, kind of how you broke down the metrics for you, but…
384 00:51:31.480 ⇒ 00:51:33.339 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I have the granola.
385 00:51:33.560 ⇒ 00:51:35.339 Robert Tseng: Oh yeah, could you send that to me?
386 00:51:35.780 ⇒ 00:51:36.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
387 00:51:36.700 ⇒ 00:51:40.229 Robert Tseng: Alright, I’m gonna… I’m gonna read both of those in the morning before I start my…
388 00:51:43.830 ⇒ 00:51:48.739 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I don’t know, I don’t feel like it’s the end of the world, like, I still think that we could…
389 00:51:49.590 ⇒ 00:51:59.470 Uttam Kumaran: engage with all of them, like, on our own. Sure. Chris was like, I don’t know how this… he’s like, dude, but even if it doesn’t work, like, call me anytime.
390 00:51:59.620 ⇒ 00:52:02.859 Uttam Kumaran: So you’ll see in my notes, like.
391 00:52:03.060 ⇒ 00:52:11.129 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, the whole transcript is in there. Ultimately, maybe you should just take the transcript, put it into, like, to put it into, like.
392 00:52:11.490 ⇒ 00:52:16.700 Uttam Kumaran: notebook LM or something and have it podcasted out, but…
393 00:52:16.700 ⇒ 00:52:17.370 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
394 00:52:17.650 ⇒ 00:52:25.469 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, basically, he was telling me, like, look, try to target 42% to 45% gross margin.
395 00:52:26.370 ⇒ 00:52:30.789 Uttam Kumaran: And he was just talking to me about, like, Kind of key metrics…
396 00:52:31.620 ⇒ 00:52:34.269 Uttam Kumaran: And he was telling me to, like, think about
397 00:52:34.800 ⇒ 00:52:39.710 Uttam Kumaran: NRR, he said in particular, NRR was very, very important when they were trying to exit.
398 00:52:39.710 ⇒ 00:52:41.960 Robert Tseng: So he has some, like, nuggets.
399 00:52:42.160 ⇒ 00:52:49.320 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing, dude, this is something that was actually fire, now that I’m reading it again. He said… I… because I asked him, I said, what is, like.
400 00:52:51.220 ⇒ 00:52:58.479 Uttam Kumaran: something you would have done differently on the pricing side, and he said, I would have totally put automatic rate increases in the contracts.
401 00:52:58.830 ⇒ 00:53:01.930 Uttam Kumaran: And he said, he said.
402 00:53:02.520 ⇒ 00:53:09.180 Uttam Kumaran: you just bill that into the MSA, that, like, at the end of the year, there’s automatic rate adjustments.
403 00:53:09.430 ⇒ 00:53:15.949 Uttam Kumaran: Versus, like, having to renegotiate it every time. And he was like…
404 00:53:16.250 ⇒ 00:53:21.249 Uttam Kumaran: He said, as you get to enterprise, they start to… he said they really will start to bully you.
405 00:53:21.380 ⇒ 00:53:28.969 Uttam Kumaran: So, he was like, 5-10% annual increases is standard. He said they didn’t know early on that other people were doing that.
406 00:53:29.320 ⇒ 00:53:31.799 Uttam Kumaran: And he’s like, we just lost, like.
407 00:53:32.030 ⇒ 00:53:36.320 Uttam Kumaran: We should have just put that into the contract, and…
408 00:53:36.510 ⇒ 00:53:43.670 Uttam Kumaran: We should have used that, because they were… the enterprises were bullying them to, like, getting massive liability caps.
409 00:53:43.790 ⇒ 00:53:50.960 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, other stuff, and he said we should have just slipped in the rate negotiations as a way to combat that.
410 00:53:51.200 ⇒ 00:53:57.189 Uttam Kumaran: So there was a really… we had a really good segment about that. I mean, that… honestly, that’s something that we should just, like…
411 00:53:57.910 ⇒ 00:54:00.720 Uttam Kumaran: maybe slip into our contracts, too? Is that, like…
412 00:54:03.540 ⇒ 00:54:06.100 Uttam Kumaran: Some type of, like, rate increase.
413 00:54:06.800 ⇒ 00:54:10.870 Uttam Kumaran: automatic… I don’t know, there was just a good… we had a really good conversation about that. The other thing…
414 00:54:10.870 ⇒ 00:54:12.280 Robert Tseng: How long were his contracts?
415 00:54:13.230 ⇒ 00:54:18.090 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I think they were selling… they were selling to…
416 00:54:20.860 ⇒ 00:54:28.230 Uttam Kumaran: I think they were selling… there’s… I think this is later in the company, but there was… he was talking about how they started selling to Fortune 1000, basically.
417 00:54:29.060 ⇒ 00:54:33.510 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if he talks… if we talked in here about, like, how long they were, but…
418 00:54:38.280 ⇒ 00:54:38.970 Robert Tseng: Okay.
419 00:54:39.250 ⇒ 00:54:42.519 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing I talked to him about is, like, the sales stream structure.
420 00:54:43.070 ⇒ 00:54:46.520 Uttam Kumaran: He said they paired salespeople with delivery leads.
421 00:54:46.630 ⇒ 00:54:50.650 Uttam Kumaran: by industry vertical. He said the delivery person handles the pricing.
422 00:54:50.910 ⇒ 00:55:03.380 Uttam Kumaran: And he basically… I talked to him a little bit about, like, what we were saying, which is, like, do you have one person? Do you have two people? He said they did two people, said that worked for them. And then the other thing that was cool, dude, is he was talking about…
423 00:55:03.650 ⇒ 00:55:11.710 Uttam Kumaran: how he kept dated commissions. And he said, look, what we did is we said 5% of revenue is…
424 00:55:11.840 ⇒ 00:55:13.020 Uttam Kumaran: commissions.
425 00:55:13.230 ⇒ 00:55:18.559 Uttam Kumaran: And he said, Sales gets… he said there’s a 5% total bucket.
426 00:55:18.910 ⇒ 00:55:27.099 Uttam Kumaran: he said sales can get up to 3%, 3.5% of that, and delivery can get up to 1.5%, but there’s, like, these certain…
427 00:55:27.930 ⇒ 00:55:37.270 Uttam Kumaran: there’s these certain things that get them there, like, based on certain buckets, and it’s only paid after the client payment is collected. So there’s a good structure there.
428 00:55:37.600 ⇒ 00:55:47.390 Uttam Kumaran: The other talk… the other thing I asked him about was the bonus structure for leadership. He said, look, there’s, like, a… they made, like, a 2D matrix where they said profitability and revenue growth.
429 00:55:47.560 ⇒ 00:55:51.659 Uttam Kumaran: And he said there’s a minimum threshold for both metrics.
430 00:55:52.060 ⇒ 00:55:55.189 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, yeah, so there was a good conversation about that.
431 00:55:55.660 ⇒ 00:55:58.440 Uttam Kumaran: We talked about partnerships, and…
432 00:56:00.580 ⇒ 00:56:08.440 Uttam Kumaran: he said that it also depends on who’s gonna buy you. He said some people want partnership heavies, some people want to see direct sales.
433 00:56:08.790 ⇒ 00:56:14.100 Uttam Kumaran: He said, your decision on whether to go one way or another is going to impact your exit opportunities.
434 00:56:14.470 ⇒ 00:56:16.080 Uttam Kumaran: Or, like, who it is.
435 00:56:16.330 ⇒ 00:56:22.269 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah, I mean, it was good. I think, again, like, but most of our conversations, we didn’t talk much about, like.
436 00:56:23.170 ⇒ 00:56:26.790 Uttam Kumaran: Team culture, or, like… Ops.
437 00:56:27.130 ⇒ 00:56:31.380 Uttam Kumaran: Which, maybe it was just because, like, that was the size he was at.
438 00:56:31.700 ⇒ 00:56:33.000 Uttam Kumaran: for a while.
439 00:56:33.390 ⇒ 00:56:34.259 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know.
440 00:56:35.960 ⇒ 00:56:40.300 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, I mean, as you can tell, I like… I… it was… it was… it was fun, yeah, it was a good conversation.
441 00:56:47.070 ⇒ 00:56:47.860 Robert Tseng: Okay.
442 00:57:03.480 ⇒ 00:57:06.279 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, let me see, I don’t… I don’t know if I had a,
443 00:57:12.680 ⇒ 00:57:16.079 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I didn’t… he didn’t have, like, a reporting or anything, so…
444 00:57:52.570 ⇒ 00:57:53.919 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, what else?
445 00:58:26.960 ⇒ 00:58:32.650 Uttam Kumaran: Do you want to talk about this, pricing?
446 00:58:34.190 ⇒ 00:58:39.539 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll talk sales stuff tomorrow during our sync. Okay, okay.
447 00:58:40.500 ⇒ 00:58:41.250 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
448 00:58:42.810 ⇒ 00:58:47.659 Robert Tseng: And then the partnership stuff, I might save it as well, for… yeah, yeah.
449 00:58:50.250 ⇒ 00:58:55.520 Robert Tseng: I think I’m gonna… I’m gonna wind down.
450 00:58:55.870 ⇒ 00:58:56.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
451 00:58:59.140 ⇒ 00:59:02.730 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah, I’m gonna finish these questions for Element, and then I’ll make up and…
452 00:59:03.250 ⇒ 00:59:05.540 Uttam Kumaran: Probably send a first draft today, and then…
453 00:59:06.200 ⇒ 00:59:08.379 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll probably wake up and edit a bit more tomorrow.
454 00:59:10.530 ⇒ 00:59:11.220 Robert Tseng: Okay.
455 00:59:13.370 ⇒ 00:59:14.430 Robert Tseng: Alright.
456 00:59:14.700 ⇒ 00:59:20.289 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess my biggest thing was, like, dude, if we’re gonna close a few more, we should make it worth…
457 00:59:21.430 ⇒ 00:59:26.419 Uttam Kumaran: worth it, because… I don’t know, I feel like we’re kind of maxed right now.
458 00:59:26.420 ⇒ 00:59:29.900 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I’m either pushing into January or asking for more.
459 00:59:30.250 ⇒ 00:59:35.290 Robert Tseng: This 1PE one is just small, I just think it’s very low effort, so I’ve been.
460 00:59:35.290 ⇒ 00:59:35.610 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
461 00:59:35.850 ⇒ 00:59:39.479 Robert Tseng: Let that one group if it goes… comes through, but…
462 00:59:39.800 ⇒ 00:59:44.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, they… otherwise… I mean, to me, this is more of a longer bet.
463 00:59:46.610 ⇒ 00:59:47.200 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
464 00:59:47.780 ⇒ 01:00:05.549 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it’s like a… it’s a financial one that, like, Citizen can work on, and then… I mean, I think… I think his… I think what he’s doing is… is good. Like, I think we can… might help us as we’re… as we’re trying to knock on the doors of… of PE firms, so… I want to be able to use what he has.
465 01:00:06.080 ⇒ 01:00:06.660 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
466 01:00:06.840 ⇒ 01:00:07.450 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
467 01:00:08.550 ⇒ 01:00:14.109 Robert Tseng: So, it’s more of a, we scratch this back, he scratches ours, but we’ll still get something out of it.
468 01:00:15.430 ⇒ 01:00:16.440 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay.
469 01:00:16.700 ⇒ 01:00:17.300 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
470 01:00:17.540 ⇒ 01:00:20.390 Uttam Kumaran: And then what do you think about, yeah, this guy Greg?
471 01:00:20.690 ⇒ 01:00:21.540 Uttam Kumaran: What do you wanna do?
472 01:00:21.540 ⇒ 01:00:26.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Greg is… product analytics,
473 01:00:26.850 ⇒ 01:00:30.110 Robert Tseng: We did say… I guess.
474 01:00:30.110 ⇒ 01:00:34.669 Uttam Kumaran: Well, I just… he’s, like, he was just, like, a pure, like, just seemed like an amplitude dude.
475 01:00:34.670 ⇒ 01:00:48.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah, he’s just, like, pure product analytics dude. Like, anything PLG, great. I mean, I’d love to throw him in a Slack channel, and then we kind of do, like, a co-authored whitepaper with him or something, or an interview, and just, like, try to get him in our content motion.
476 01:00:49.170 ⇒ 01:01:07.360 Robert Tseng: And then, yeah, I think… I mean, we don’t really have someone who’s aggressively investing in Amplitude right now, so, like, I don’t really see a world of, like, putting him in. He’s also part-time, whatever, so… I mean, if he wants to help kind of build this go-to-market motion with us, and it’s kind of like…
477 01:01:07.360 ⇒ 01:01:19.979 Robert Tseng: all right, if the leads come, and then we put them on the next product analytics deal, I’m fine with that. But that… I don’t really see a point in bringing them into what we currently have.
478 01:01:20.220 ⇒ 01:01:22.249 Uttam Kumaran: You don’t think he would come on full-time?
479 01:01:23.270 ⇒ 01:01:29.659 Robert Tseng: He would, but, like, we don’t have enough of product analytics stuff for him full-time.
480 01:01:34.630 ⇒ 01:01:40.450 Uttam Kumaran: Really? You don’t think so? Like, even across README… the default work…
481 01:01:41.160 ⇒ 01:01:47.410 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, you don’t think he can do… you don’t think he can, like… A baseline, just, like.
482 01:01:47.990 ⇒ 01:01:50.159 Uttam Kumaran: Be good at looking at other stuff?
483 01:01:54.260 ⇒ 01:02:10.500 Robert Tseng: I think, like, his approach is very, like, bottoms up. He’s like, go watch every session replay, call every customer. Like, to me, he’s not a strategic person. I mean, he can do this work, but he does it from just, like, having a lot of
484 01:02:11.010 ⇒ 01:02:17.300 Robert Tseng: like… Breathing room to go and talk to customers and figure it out, which is, like.
485 01:02:17.810 ⇒ 01:02:21.010 Robert Tseng: Good if you’re in-house, but, like, we…
486 01:02:21.180 ⇒ 01:02:26.820 Robert Tseng: don’t really get to run that type of… like, I think he’s gonna come in, and he’s gonna be like.
487 01:02:27.250 ⇒ 01:02:36.539 Uttam Kumaran: where… why don’t I have the ability to run experiments? Like, the clients are kind of, like, not really moving, and it… we were really more kind of coming at them top-down, so…
488 01:02:37.750 ⇒ 01:02:43.309 Robert Tseng: that’s my initial thought, like… but I do think what he’s saying is valuable. I think he’d be a good…
489 01:02:43.990 ⇒ 01:02:59.819 Robert Tseng: you know, if we have, like, full buy-in to, like, really run with an amplitude situation, like, maybe he would have been a better fit for, like, Javi. You know, like, going back to Javi, maybe we pushed them, they didn’t really like the metabase thing, they didn’t really need the BI tool.
490 01:03:00.120 ⇒ 01:03:03.630 Robert Tseng: I mean, at the end of the day, they just wanted to make it work with amplitude.
491 01:03:03.770 ⇒ 01:03:17.349 Robert Tseng: sure, our warehouse native, like, Snowflake, was not as great as we thought it would be. I think the limitations of the tech, but maybe he could have gone in there and just, like, done more stuff with amplitude, you know? Like, and they were paying us 10 grand a month for that.
492 01:03:17.500 ⇒ 01:03:20.940 Robert Tseng: Whereas, like.
493 01:03:22.160 ⇒ 01:03:30.810 Robert Tseng: I… I think with where the product analytics motion is currently with our existing clients, it’s just not really…
494 01:03:31.970 ⇒ 01:03:35.820 Robert Tseng: there’s not enough momentum for him to do stuff with it, I think.
495 01:03:36.920 ⇒ 01:03:39.070 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess I would just say, like.
496 01:03:40.130 ⇒ 01:03:42.609 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, we’re throwing people with, like.
497 01:03:42.910 ⇒ 01:03:45.330 Robert Tseng: No experience. No experience.
498 01:03:45.790 ⇒ 01:03:50.829 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it’s… he may… he may be able to get… he may be able to squeeze more out of it.
499 01:03:51.080 ⇒ 01:03:59.450 Robert Tseng: But yeah, then we would have to be like, okay, he comes in, he’s taking over default, README, and
500 01:04:02.290 ⇒ 01:04:06.450 Robert Tseng: I guess maybe Hedra or something, I don’t know, like… Yeah, I agree.
501 01:04:06.450 ⇒ 01:04:09.570 Uttam Kumaran: I think README and Default, for sure, I think…
502 01:04:09.980 ⇒ 01:04:13.740 Uttam Kumaran: this is where I would also look at, like, what else is, like, kind of, like.
503 01:04:14.620 ⇒ 01:04:16.579 Uttam Kumaran: What else looks like a funnel, you know?
504 01:04:17.150 ⇒ 01:04:19.869 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, specifically SaaS.
505 01:04:20.010 ⇒ 01:04:22.799 Robert Tseng: PLG is his, is his thing, yeah.
506 01:04:26.430 ⇒ 01:04:31.430 Robert Tseng: So it’d be great, I mean, if we… if I can go… if we can go back, circle back with bringing some people back.
507 01:04:31.910 ⇒ 01:04:37.720 Robert Tseng: Spark plug, if we’re getting it, I mean, some of these other companies. If we have, like, 4…
508 01:04:37.720 ⇒ 01:04:40.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, why don’t you… so why don’t we say, like, work with him to say, look.
509 01:04:41.270 ⇒ 01:04:50.360 Uttam Kumaran: We only have 2… active… SaaS PLG companies, and… Like, though momentum is slow.
510 01:04:50.760 ⇒ 01:04:52.789 Uttam Kumaran: But if you can help us…
511 01:04:53.690 ⇒ 01:04:58.060 Uttam Kumaran: sort of think about, like, an offer. Here are the leads we’re working with.
512 01:04:58.480 ⇒ 01:05:03.400 Uttam Kumaran: We can go put a scope in front of them, And you could take that.
513 01:05:04.040 ⇒ 01:05:07.710 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’ll make it clear to him that, like, we’re not…
514 01:05:08.000 ⇒ 01:05:15.650 Uttam Kumaran: Looking to have a team of, like, part-time people, so this would be a path towards Like, joining us.
515 01:05:16.580 ⇒ 01:05:19.169 Uttam Kumaran: But this was kind of the path where, like.
516 01:05:19.280 ⇒ 01:05:26.189 Uttam Kumaran: If you can think about creative ways for us to get back in front of these people and what the scope could be, then we can go sell it.
517 01:05:27.130 ⇒ 01:05:33.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I gave him the, like, strategist versus architect pitch, and he definitely preferred architect.
518 01:05:33.440 ⇒ 01:05:34.480 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. So…
519 01:05:34.840 ⇒ 01:05:37.650 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think…
520 01:05:37.830 ⇒ 01:05:41.179 Uttam Kumaran: But even Mixpanel, like, dude, I don’t care, like, I would have him take on Mixpanel.
521 01:05:41.180 ⇒ 01:05:45.389 Robert Tseng: Sure, sure, yeah, anything product analytics related, he could take on.
522 01:05:45.390 ⇒ 01:05:49.829 Uttam Kumaran: Because we’re also, dude, we’re doing this, like, we’re talking to Mixpanel about stuff, too.
523 01:05:49.960 ⇒ 01:05:54.629 Uttam Kumaran: So, I would… maybe that’s what we do. I would basically… maybe I have them say, like, look.
524 01:05:55.640 ⇒ 01:06:02.939 Uttam Kumaran: like, if you are… if you do want to bring him on to stuff, I wouldn’t throw him on a client. I would have him do background README work for you.
525 01:06:04.110 ⇒ 01:06:05.759 Uttam Kumaran: Or I would have him…
526 01:06:07.470 ⇒ 01:06:12.789 Uttam Kumaran: I would basically ask him to give me a scope for default for, like, product analytics.
527 01:06:12.790 ⇒ 01:06:13.430 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
528 01:06:14.030 ⇒ 01:06:15.969 Uttam Kumaran: Before I put him in front of people.
529 01:06:16.640 ⇒ 01:06:17.380 Robert Tseng: Okay.
530 01:06:17.380 ⇒ 01:06:21.379 Uttam Kumaran: So maybe that’s what we ask them to do. I’ll say, like, look, we have these past clients.
531 01:06:23.650 ⇒ 01:06:24.369 Uttam Kumaran: We have these.
532 01:06:24.370 ⇒ 01:06:42.700 Robert Tseng: He also is, like, out for 2 weeks in December, so he didn’t even really want to start anything until, like, January, which is why I was like, okay, if we want to bring… if we want to engage him now, let’s put him in the Slack channel, get him involved in, like, the go-to-market side. He can do an interview with us, he can help us put together the case study.
533 01:06:42.700 ⇒ 01:06:56.129 Robert Tseng: we’ll push some content out with him, we’ll get… we’ll… maybe we can put him in front of our amplitude or Mixpanel partner or whatever. But it’s kind of like he… he needs to, like, get his foot in the door.
534 01:06:56.250 ⇒ 01:06:58.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we… if we… and then if we really…
535 01:06:58.890 ⇒ 01:07:09.329 Robert Tseng: you know, if we grow… if we bring on more business, we can start him in the background on the existing clients, but there isn’t, like… I don’t think it’s, like, that urgent to start him on work immediately, yeah.
536 01:07:11.230 ⇒ 01:07:16.710 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, so then, yeah, I’ll… maybe I’ll… I’ll talk to… yeah, we can talk to Hannah about it, and basically say, like.
537 01:07:17.490 ⇒ 01:07:24.939 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we want to put out, like, a product analytics case study or something around that, and… okay, alright, that makes sense then.
538 01:07:25.480 ⇒ 01:07:26.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
539 01:07:27.510 ⇒ 01:07:30.310 Uttam Kumaran: And then, what’s the deal with, with Jasmine?
540 01:07:31.250 ⇒ 01:07:37.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think I’d like you to chat with her for a delivery lead, or like, yeah, I think,
541 01:07:38.460 ⇒ 01:07:45.570 Robert Tseng: She wants to leave TikTok. She’s open to coming over in 2026, so…
542 01:07:45.840 ⇒ 01:07:53.360 Robert Tseng: I think… I think she’s… I think she can be at the strategist level. Yeah.
543 01:07:54.750 ⇒ 01:07:59.240 Uttam Kumaran: Are you, like, underplaying it because you don’t want to bias it, or what do you think?
544 01:07:59.440 ⇒ 01:08:08.119 Robert Tseng: Oh, no, no, I mean, like I said, I think she’s the best analyst I work with at Bungo, and the only one that really took business and grew it, so, like…
545 01:08:08.230 ⇒ 01:08:27.339 Robert Tseng: from an account… client-facing side, I have no doubt in her ability to represent Brainforge well. Her analysis skill set is maybe a little bit too corporate, but it’s fine. I think she can… she can be a bit more scrappy, or just learn to rely on our team. I… yeah, I think… I think with… with enough…
546 01:08:27.700 ⇒ 01:08:45.029 Robert Tseng: Yeah, like, and then she… she writes great, you know, documentation, is a good process thinker, so, like, I think it’s just somebody good who cares about… who’s… who wants more ownership, like, that’s… that’s what will… that’s what will bring her over. It’s not because she’s trying to coast, like, I think…
547 01:08:45.029 ⇒ 01:08:51.190 Robert Tseng: She just has that, like, wants to learn how to run a business type of, like, attitude. She…
548 01:08:51.330 ⇒ 01:08:57.529 Robert Tseng: You know, she’s like, Yeah, I mean, was running her parents’ liquor store since middle school kind of thing.
549 01:08:57.899 ⇒ 01:08:58.539 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
550 01:08:58.830 ⇒ 01:08:59.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
551 01:09:00.479 ⇒ 01:09:06.349 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, you know, just… I…
552 01:09:06.740 ⇒ 01:09:16.750 Robert Tseng: I gave her the spiel of the same thing, the strategist, architect, and engineer kind of model, and then kind of, like, my thoughts on
553 01:09:17.390 ⇒ 01:09:21.050 Robert Tseng: You know, where we’re headed, wanting to build out a core ops team.
554 01:09:21.490 ⇒ 01:09:32.750 Robert Tseng: And, like, I think she’s interested in running and doing delivery, and also working on the business, and I think she’s senior enough, to…
555 01:09:33.220 ⇒ 01:09:37.089 Robert Tseng: I mean, I think she’s… I think she’d be better than… than Henry.
556 01:09:37.260 ⇒ 01:09:38.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
557 01:09:40.160 ⇒ 01:09:41.580 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great.
558 01:09:43.300 ⇒ 01:09:45.430 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect. Okay, yeah, I’m talking to her on Friday.
559 01:09:45.649 ⇒ 01:09:46.289 Robert Tseng: Okay.
560 01:09:48.840 ⇒ 01:09:56.910 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool, alright, I’ll let you go. That’s probably it. Yeah, tomorrow… yeah, just, I have, like, so much shit, so I’ll just be, like, locked in.
561 01:09:57.090 ⇒ 01:09:58.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, all good.
562 01:10:00.070 ⇒ 01:10:02.449 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude, big month.
563 01:10:03.000 ⇒ 01:10:03.930 Robert Tseng: I don’t know.
564 01:10:04.640 ⇒ 01:10:05.920 Uttam Kumaran: This is kind of crazy.
565 01:10:07.010 ⇒ 01:10:12.069 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, and then I’ll let you know, about, what, 2 weeks from now.
566 01:10:13.210 ⇒ 01:10:19.239 Robert Tseng: Yeah, tell me when you book your flights, we’ll rearrange the schedule, we’ll work around you.
567 01:10:19.410 ⇒ 01:10:20.569 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, perfect.
568 01:10:22.940 ⇒ 01:10:23.930 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, dude.
569 01:10:24.070 ⇒ 01:10:24.830 Robert Tseng: Alright.
570 01:10:25.070 ⇒ 01:10:26.280 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.
571 01:10:26.350 ⇒ 01:10:27.300 Robert Tseng: Bye tomorrow.
572 01:10:27.440 ⇒ 01:10:28.040 Uttam Kumaran: Get back.