Meeting Title: Brainforge Career Opportunities Discussion Date: 2025-11-11 Meeting participants: Jasmin Multani, Robert Tseng
WEBVTT
1 00:03:33.550 ⇒ 00:03:34.820 Robert Tseng: Hello?
2 00:03:35.090 ⇒ 00:03:36.790 Jasmin Multani: Yay! Long time no see!
3 00:03:37.020 ⇒ 00:03:38.120 Robert Tseng: Yeah!
4 00:03:38.920 ⇒ 00:03:42.980 Jasmin Multani: Javi? Have you… You’re in Santa Monica now, right?
5 00:03:42.980 ⇒ 00:03:46.449 Robert Tseng: Santa Monica. Okay. The apartment.
6 00:03:46.450 ⇒ 00:03:52.720 Jasmin Multani: Backed into a kitchen corner, but, decorations are slowly getting there.
7 00:03:52.720 ⇒ 00:03:53.320 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
8 00:03:53.390 ⇒ 00:03:57.730 Jasmin Multani: Do you have roommates, or do you live alone? I’m going solo this time.
9 00:03:57.730 ⇒ 00:03:58.810 Robert Tseng: Okay. Nice.
10 00:03:58.810 ⇒ 00:04:09.490 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. Yeah, that’s exciting. No, partitioning the toaster, no kitchen fees, it’s been… it’s been solo and good so far, yeah.
11 00:04:09.680 ⇒ 00:04:15.350 Robert Tseng: Nice. And, I guess you’re in the office? I thought you were in the office, like… Every day.
12 00:04:15.590 ⇒ 00:04:19.560 Jasmin Multani: No, we only really need to be there for 3 times a week.
13 00:04:19.560 ⇒ 00:04:20.570 Robert Tseng: Oh, 3 times a week, okay.
14 00:04:20.570 ⇒ 00:04:25.900 Jasmin Multani: times a week, and, I’m going to an on-site tomorrow and Thursday.
15 00:04:25.900 ⇒ 00:04:26.220 Robert Tseng: Cool.
16 00:04:26.220 ⇒ 00:04:30.440 Jasmin Multani: So, that’ll… that’ll have my TAP requirements ready to go.
17 00:04:30.660 ⇒ 00:04:33.960 Robert Tseng: Okay, nice. And, you’re getting over a cold, you said?
18 00:04:33.960 ⇒ 00:04:37.649 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, I am, I am, I definitely…
19 00:04:38.170 ⇒ 00:04:47.620 Jasmin Multani: Friday, Saturday, I stayed inside. Sunday, I socialized, and then I paid the price of socializing. I was like, I should have rested up, but I just needed to
20 00:04:48.470 ⇒ 00:04:55.410 Jasmin Multani: I just need to be around people, and just let them know that I am sick, but I don’t think I’m contagious.
21 00:04:55.790 ⇒ 00:04:56.400 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
22 00:04:56.520 ⇒ 00:04:58.829 Robert Tseng: Okay, well, I hope you, hope you get well soon.
23 00:04:58.830 ⇒ 00:05:02.330 Jasmin Multani: Thank you, thank you, thank you. How have you been?
24 00:05:02.530 ⇒ 00:05:06.630 Robert Tseng: Doing well. I think, it’s, it’s,
25 00:05:07.090 ⇒ 00:05:10.650 Robert Tseng: When did I see you? It was, like, in the summer?
26 00:05:11.050 ⇒ 00:05:15.709 Robert Tseng: Yeah, it might have been in July or August, I forget. Okay, well anyway, I think, like.
27 00:05:15.850 ⇒ 00:05:22.720 Robert Tseng: So it’s been at least 3 months. 3 months has gone by. Good. I mean, yeah, I guess,
28 00:05:23.050 ⇒ 00:05:30.469 Robert Tseng: business-wise, I mean, we did our… did our best month last month, so Q4’s been going well. Yeah, so…
29 00:05:30.690 ⇒ 00:05:36.790 Robert Tseng: we… I mean, I think realistically have, like, just a few more weeks before people really stop.
30 00:05:37.440 ⇒ 00:05:43.079 Jasmin Multani: stop working and stop buying services, I guess, so I think December should probably be more chill.
31 00:05:43.270 ⇒ 00:05:47.619 Robert Tseng: Wait, did I tell you that I was doing… I’m in law school?
32 00:05:48.010 ⇒ 00:05:50.270 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, you did! You briefly breathed…
33 00:05:50.490 ⇒ 00:05:52.570 Jasmin Multani: Linda, how are you balancing everything?
34 00:05:52.950 ⇒ 00:06:00.100 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, it’s not really a balance, it’s just more like, something that always doesn’t get the love that it needs, whether it’s…
35 00:06:00.830 ⇒ 00:06:02.900 Robert Tseng: My wife, or school, or work.
36 00:06:02.900 ⇒ 00:06:03.410 Jasmin Multani: And…
37 00:06:03.410 ⇒ 00:06:07.120 Robert Tseng: But, yeah, I mean, I think the priority is…
38 00:06:07.430 ⇒ 00:06:19.760 Robert Tseng: you know, for better or for worse, it’s been work, and then my wife, and then it’s been school. So, she’s not happy about that, but… so hopefully we’re going to Hong Kong next week, I’m gonna take a week off of work, and…
39 00:06:19.760 ⇒ 00:06:20.500 Jasmin Multani: And out of…
40 00:06:20.500 ⇒ 00:06:39.020 Robert Tseng: fix that, I guess. But, yeah, no, it’s just a constant juggling act. School’s okay, I mean, I finished one class already, so I have two more classes. It’s just finals at this point, so I have two finals in a month, so hopefully when things wind down a bit in December, I’ll be able to study then.
41 00:06:39.160 ⇒ 00:06:56.609 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I enjoy the subject matter, the academia is fine, but I think, I mean, it’s always kind of just been a one step at a time for me. I’m not, like, committed to finishing the program. I just wanted to try it out, see if it was something I was interested in doing.
42 00:06:57.720 ⇒ 00:07:11.320 Robert Tseng: I… I think I’m doing okay, but we’ll see. If I… if I, like, do terribly in my classes, it probably doesn’t make sense, because I’m not gonna put any more time in it. I only, like, spend 15 hours a week, in general on it, so…
43 00:07:11.580 ⇒ 00:07:23.779 Robert Tseng: It’s kind of like, I’ll put that time in, and whatever I get out of it is what I get out of it. So, yeah, I definitely have a lot stricter boundaries in school. Yeah.
44 00:07:24.370 ⇒ 00:07:33.529 Jasmin Multani: No, no. I mean, you’re doing it all. You’re doing it all, and lucky enough, you don’t have kids that need to be in the top three priorities, so I feel like
45 00:07:33.910 ⇒ 00:07:44.330 Jasmin Multani: you know, this is really the time to make those last-ditch pitches and Hail Marys to see, okay, what else can we… can we come up with before, like, other life responsibilities truly, like.
46 00:07:44.440 ⇒ 00:07:46.019 Jasmin Multani: take the most of us, so I feel like.
47 00:07:46.020 ⇒ 00:07:46.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah, exactly.
48 00:07:46.600 ⇒ 00:07:47.880 Jasmin Multani: this chapter.
49 00:07:47.880 ⇒ 00:07:53.269 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. If I do, surprisingly, like, end up having a kid, I will quit school. Like, that’s… that’s…
50 00:07:53.270 ⇒ 00:07:53.780 Jasmin Multani: Almost. Yes.
51 00:07:53.780 ⇒ 00:07:56.229 Robert Tseng: the priority, so that will… that will go.
52 00:07:56.230 ⇒ 00:07:58.460 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. I’m sure your wife will leave.
53 00:07:58.460 ⇒ 00:07:58.810 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
54 00:07:58.810 ⇒ 00:08:01.290 Jasmin Multani: Very, very happy today.
55 00:08:01.290 ⇒ 00:08:09.990 Robert Tseng: Yes, yes, we’re on the same page about that. Like, I know she’s… she’s, been just letting me try it, but, we’ll see.
56 00:08:09.990 ⇒ 00:08:10.430 Jasmin Multani: Yeah.
57 00:08:10.430 ⇒ 00:08:10.870 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
58 00:08:11.020 ⇒ 00:08:13.579 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, and there’s no looking back, too, it’s like…
59 00:08:14.080 ⇒ 00:08:22.399 Jasmin Multani: 30 is still a very young age. It’s the age to, like, do the last pitches, so we can, like, curate the next 30 years of our life.
60 00:08:22.400 ⇒ 00:08:31.079 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I’m not one of those people who wants to just, like, call it quits and retire when I’m 35. Like, I plan to work for, you know.
61 00:08:31.080 ⇒ 00:08:31.420 Jasmin Multani: Yeah.
62 00:08:31.420 ⇒ 00:08:36.679 Robert Tseng: another 20-something years, at least. So, yeah, I think…
63 00:08:36.929 ⇒ 00:08:43.790 Robert Tseng: caring about what I do and, you know, getting the training that I feel like I need matters a lot to me. Yeah.
64 00:08:44.430 ⇒ 00:08:52.469 Jasmin Multani: Is the end goal to be, like, an independent lawyer, or do you see yourself more of being a lawyer for
65 00:08:52.580 ⇒ 00:08:54.259 Jasmin Multani: a corporate council.
66 00:08:54.590 ⇒ 00:09:03.579 Robert Tseng: I don’t know if I’ll actually practice law, to be honest. I think, it still, still, still feels too early for that, to say, to see that.
67 00:09:03.700 ⇒ 00:09:09.130 Robert Tseng: I… I think I’m in it for…
68 00:09:09.920 ⇒ 00:09:17.340 Robert Tseng: the, exposure to, like, public interest law, which is where I would like to work,
69 00:09:17.500 ⇒ 00:09:19.739 Robert Tseng: I mean, Brainforge is…
70 00:09:19.980 ⇒ 00:09:38.829 Robert Tseng: tech services company. I feel like my entire career has been various types of services. I think for the longer term of my career, I’d like to be doing something that’s more public interest focused. Yeah. And yeah, so I’m hoping to just kind of end up over there in some capacity, but if I’m… I mean, I think I…
71 00:09:39.520 ⇒ 00:09:43.110 Robert Tseng: My… my training, or what my skills are in…
72 00:09:43.910 ⇒ 00:09:55.660 Robert Tseng: operations and, like, organization building or whatever, so, I may not actually have to be a practicing attorney to… if I end up over there, I can… I feel like there’s many things I could end up doing.
73 00:09:56.070 ⇒ 00:10:00.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I’m not… I’m not really sure… I’m not really sure what the…
74 00:10:01.000 ⇒ 00:10:10.229 Robert Tseng: what the law practice will look like, or, like, you know, I don’t even know if… like, I’m not even saying to people that I’m gonna finish it, I’m just saying I’m doing… I’m trying it out.
75 00:10:10.230 ⇒ 00:10:10.670 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah.
76 00:10:10.670 ⇒ 00:10:11.390 Robert Tseng: We’ll see.
77 00:10:11.390 ⇒ 00:10:18.230 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Protect your curiosity. And also, there’s a lot of overlap, emerging overlap, between law and AI.
78 00:10:18.380 ⇒ 00:10:26.700 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. I think, I was just hearing, like, a very, very, very short snippet of Lina Khan’s transition period on,
79 00:10:27.520 ⇒ 00:10:31.070 Jasmin Multani: She’s part of Zoron’s, transition team.
80 00:10:31.070 ⇒ 00:10:31.460 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
81 00:10:31.460 ⇒ 00:10:34.970 Jasmin Multani: And she was talking about how, like, how mundane it is. Like.
82 00:10:34.970 ⇒ 00:10:35.620 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
83 00:10:36.030 ⇒ 00:10:42.429 Jasmin Multani: back when she was on the FTC, she was like, we didn’t even know of all the laws that we were allowed to practice.
84 00:10:42.740 ⇒ 00:10:53.519 Jasmin Multani: I’m like, damn, that’s like a simple spreadsheet. That sounds like a very simple sprint that any operations person could be, could be running towards, or…
85 00:10:53.520 ⇒ 00:10:54.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
86 00:10:54.180 ⇒ 00:11:06.229 Jasmin Multani: is, like, seasoned to do at any startup. So I feel like there’s a lot of, you know, operational, law, maybe a little bit of AI intersection, in public service.
87 00:11:06.230 ⇒ 00:11:07.949 Robert Tseng: That needs to be automated out.
88 00:11:07.950 ⇒ 00:11:09.070 Jasmin Multani: So…
89 00:11:09.960 ⇒ 00:11:19.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so whether I’m building for that, or I’m the person that’s, like, struggling using to use it, I mean, I don’t know, we’ll see. Like, I think, I would… yeah, but that’s… that’s where I would like to be.
90 00:11:19.700 ⇒ 00:11:24.599 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you’re spot on. Some of my coworkers and I are also like.
91 00:11:24.720 ⇒ 00:11:33.020 Jasmin Multani: We’re looking at all these reorgs, happening, and we’re like, wow, this is ridiculous, this is so dystopic.
92 00:11:33.020 ⇒ 00:11:33.430 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
93 00:11:33.430 ⇒ 00:11:36.099 Jasmin Multani: We’ll have the lights on.
94 00:11:36.230 ⇒ 00:11:41.639 Jasmin Multani: But we’re not really making the impact that we were hired to do, or we’re, like…
95 00:11:41.670 ⇒ 00:11:48.530 Robert Tseng: The people who hired us are now not part of the team, or they’re at the company, or they’re on a different part of the company.
96 00:11:48.530 ⇒ 00:11:51.439 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. And now our…
97 00:11:51.920 ⇒ 00:12:01.169 Jasmin Multani: you know, directors that are managing us, they’re like, what is the purpose of your role? And we’re like, you guys hired… you’re… someone in the pedigree hired us, and like.
98 00:12:01.170 ⇒ 00:12:05.240 Robert Tseng: headcount for our scope. What do you guys think about.
99 00:12:05.480 ⇒ 00:12:11.339 Jasmin Multani: And I feel like there’s some of my coworkers who are like, okay, you know…
100 00:12:11.360 ⇒ 00:12:30.100 Jasmin Multani: we can understand why things like becoming a doctor, becoming a lawyer, becoming a teacher is so protective, because, like, it’s an individual service. Once you clock out, you clock out. But I feel like working in tech, it’s just… the monkey’s always on your back, and you’re always trying to read up on the next best thing.
101 00:12:30.100 ⇒ 00:12:33.849 Jasmin Multani: But the next best thing only happens once in a blue moon, so… Yeah.
102 00:12:33.860 ⇒ 00:12:42.339 Jasmin Multani: I’m also trying to, like, scope out, like, where could I take these skills, elsewhere, and… Sure. …actually feels fulfilling.
103 00:12:42.710 ⇒ 00:12:47.159 Robert Tseng: Yeah. No, I think, yeah, that’s exactly right. I mean.
104 00:12:47.330 ⇒ 00:12:54.890 Robert Tseng: we… I mean, you were with me when I was doing Pongo stuff, and I mean, that was just starting in data, and then obviously we were riding the AI wave, and…
105 00:12:55.040 ⇒ 00:13:13.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, just because we’re riding the wave that we’re getting in a lot of doors that we wouldn’t be if I just said we were a data company. So, you know, no one’s really a true expert in terms of on the implementation side at this point. You know, there’s probably some, like, less than 500 people that actually build anything that’s, like.
106 00:13:13.680 ⇒ 00:13:14.120 Jasmin Multani: No.
107 00:13:14.120 ⇒ 00:13:23.050 Robert Tseng: you know, for AI. Everyone else is just kind of, like, just coming along for the ride, so we’re very much just… just like that, but I think, like.
108 00:13:23.330 ⇒ 00:13:39.350 Robert Tseng: what I’ve… what I’ve learned, I know we’ve kind of chatted a bit back and forth about some of the challenges of this stage, like, we’re now around 20 people, it’s very different than, like, hiring the first 5 people, like, I have to start to create, like, different levels of the organizational structure, so thinking about, like, how to
109 00:13:39.390 ⇒ 00:13:48.419 Robert Tseng: not add too much structure, but also create, like, roles that have, like, more ownership. I think, like, my model has kind of evolved a bit since I’ve, like, talked to you about, like, kind of my…
110 00:13:48.500 ⇒ 00:13:57.870 Robert Tseng: I mean, I know what the expectations are the same, but, like, what I’m calling them looks different. And so, what I’m actually doing now is, like, kind of assembling, like, a founding, like, ops team.
111 00:13:58.000 ⇒ 00:13:58.450 Jasmin Multani: Okay.
112 00:13:58.450 ⇒ 00:14:11.470 Robert Tseng: So, rather than… I mean, from our… on the delivery model, we still have, like, these kind of tiers of, like, the strategist, who’s kind of maybe, like, the managing director, if you think about it, like, or an engagement manager at a traditional consultancy.
113 00:14:11.480 ⇒ 00:14:30.259 Robert Tseng: then, like, you know, rather than, like, an associate, for us it’s, like, a solutions architect, somebody who is the technical leader, who is able to actually be client-facing and actually manage projects. And then we have, like, the lower-level, like, analysts or engineers that are executing just very specific tasks. But I think
114 00:14:30.260 ⇒ 00:14:36.669 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, that to us is still the delivery model, but then what I consider to be this ops team is really, like.
115 00:14:36.670 ⇒ 00:14:49.519 Robert Tseng: Have one person who’s doing, like, go-to-market ops, product ops, delivery ops, and then disops. So, I’m kind of, like, trying to, you know, this is… this is what I put out to our board, and, like, we don’t worry
116 00:14:49.900 ⇒ 00:15:08.090 Robert Tseng: But I’m talking about… nothing will actually change until January, but… I don’t know, I’m excited about this. I’m, like, trying to apply some… when I think back to when I was employee 18 at, like, a Series A startup, like, I was the first BizOps hire, and there were a few other people, and we, like, you know, we felt… we were very autonomous and, like, owned very, like.
117 00:15:08.270 ⇒ 00:15:27.689 Robert Tseng: basically, like, GMs of the business. We’re kind of, like, just… but, you know, just trying to standardize the language. So, yeah, so I think that was… I thought that was helpful, even though, like, my day-to-day, like, I was still kind of… you know, it’s not like I was doing pure strategic work or whatever, like, in that role. Like, a lot of it was kind of just, like.
118 00:15:27.850 ⇒ 00:15:37.510 Robert Tseng: there aren’t that many resources. You have to jump in and, like, solve the problems yourself. But I think just framing it that way made sure that I was, like, responsible for the outcomes that I was assigned.
119 00:15:37.800 ⇒ 00:15:54.569 Robert Tseng: which I was more of, like, kind of the stand-in before the chief of staff, and I was, like, kind of had more of a finance background, so before they hired a CFO, before they hired a chief of staff, like, I was basically owning their scope. And I learned so much from that, like, you know, year and a half before they ended up hiring someone else, and my role kind of shifted.
120 00:15:54.570 ⇒ 00:15:54.920 Jasmin Multani: Yay!
121 00:15:54.920 ⇒ 00:16:01.650 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I kind of feel like, you know, we’re at a similar stage now, and I’m, like, trying to bring, like, kinda… I’m trying to, like.
122 00:16:01.780 ⇒ 00:16:12.359 Robert Tseng: you know, remember what that was like and apply it to our situation now. So, yeah, I think that’s kind of what’s… what’s coming ahead for us. Yeah.
123 00:16:12.950 ⇒ 00:16:18.209 Jasmin Multani: Okay, cool. That’s really interesting. So, all of these ops-focused…
124 00:16:19.180 ⇒ 00:16:25.610 Jasmin Multani: roles that you’re looking into? Are they gonna be more client-focused? Are they more internal-focused?
125 00:16:26.230 ⇒ 00:16:42.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, delivery ops is probably the least defined one for me, but, like, I consider that… yes, that person is basically our head of… head of, like, client engagement or whatever, so… but, like, why I like the ops label to it is that they don’t… they’re not just, like, kind of…
126 00:16:42.830 ⇒ 00:16:58.369 Robert Tseng: only owning, like, a couple accounts or whatever. Like, they… they need to think about, like, all the learnings across all of our accounts, and, you know, how we benchmark our performance across… now we have, like, a portfolio. We work with, like, 20-plus clients at the same time, so, like, it’s…
127 00:16:58.790 ⇒ 00:17:18.440 Robert Tseng: it’s not, like, it’s not, like, that easy to kind of see through it from the outside. But, like, you know, knowing that clients that are at different stages, really start to benchmark, like, what does, you know, what does client, like, success look like, and, like, in the different stages of maturity in an engagement, and then, like.
128 00:17:18.579 ⇒ 00:17:20.119 Robert Tseng: yeah, like, I think…
129 00:17:20.470 ⇒ 00:17:32.700 Robert Tseng: being able to be the owner of, like, how we continue to advance, like, our practice, whether… and I want to be able to empower them by giving them, like, a budget line, and be like.
130 00:17:32.830 ⇒ 00:17:33.760 Robert Tseng: I mean.
131 00:17:34.010 ⇒ 00:17:46.279 Robert Tseng: I’m not gonna hire people unless, like, we really need to, and, like, you need to kind of, like, tell me, like, what… like, what that threshold is. Otherwise, like, if we just kind of run this like a traditional consultancy.
132 00:17:46.280 ⇒ 00:17:54.839 Robert Tseng: I know that, like, every 3 clients requires another 3 people, and, like, then we just end up kind of just growing… we can grow much wider, and…
133 00:17:54.840 ⇒ 00:18:09.449 Robert Tseng: I don’t know, like, that could be, like, a 50-person team that ends up not… I mean, that’s just, like, a really big organization to me that I don’t want to run it that way, so I’d rather us kind of solve the harder problem of, like, how do we keep, like.
134 00:18:09.470 ⇒ 00:18:23.950 Robert Tseng: you know, serving more with the team that we have, and then, you know, using… leveraging, like, the internal AI products that we’re building, you know, so that’s kind of where the collaboration with the other ops folks is internally is going to bring, like, those extra
135 00:18:23.970 ⇒ 00:18:40.870 Robert Tseng: tools and, like, margin opportunities into… into their… into their world. So, anyway, that’s… that’s kind of, like, how I see, like, kind of two of those folks kind of working. So, some will be internal only, some will be external. Like, the salesperson and the go-to-market lead.
136 00:18:40.870 ⇒ 00:18:51.540 Robert Tseng: lead and the delivery lead are obviously client-facing. The product lead is internal, and also the BizOps person is internal. So, but yeah, they should all, like, know
137 00:18:51.540 ⇒ 00:19:10.450 Robert Tseng: how to, like, what everything is happening across the business. They have, like, their areas of ownership, but then, like, they can, like, lean on each other to, like, kind of pull… pull in, like, like, yeah, like, kind of to leverage, leverage each other. So, that’s, kind of how I… how I see… that’s how I’m… that’s what I’m envisioning right now.
138 00:19:10.450 ⇒ 00:19:12.440 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, there definitely has to be some sort of crosstone.
139 00:19:12.440 ⇒ 00:19:12.770 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
140 00:19:12.770 ⇒ 00:19:17.039 Jasmin Multani: The product head, and you have a go-to-market strategist,
141 00:19:17.040 ⇒ 00:19:17.500 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
142 00:19:17.500 ⇒ 00:19:19.280 Jasmin Multani: And have some sort of feedback loop.
143 00:19:19.450 ⇒ 00:19:27.980 Jasmin Multani: Yeah. Okay, great, because I was just talking… I met up with Hannah. We literally just met up just to hang out, just to have…
144 00:19:28.220 ⇒ 00:19:47.580 Jasmin Multani: her whole time, and she mentioned that, like, possibly, if I’m on the market, if I’d be willing to come back to Brainforge. I mean, she didn’t say it as, like, there’s a… something secured or anything, but that is part of, like, why I wanted to reach out, just to see what you guys are up to. Sure.
145 00:19:47.580 ⇒ 00:19:47.960 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
146 00:19:47.960 ⇒ 00:19:51.309 Jasmin Multani: I feel like that’s always been off the table for me, because it’s hard to find
147 00:19:52.090 ⇒ 00:19:56.309 Jasmin Multani: People that are good to work with, and
148 00:19:56.540 ⇒ 00:20:08.689 Jasmin Multani: are constantly evolving themselves, so that’s not… that’s a unicorn that I don’t want to pass up. So I just wanted to, like, open it up and see if there are availabilities on the team, and what bandwidth would look like from there.
149 00:20:08.990 ⇒ 00:20:28.459 Robert Tseng: Yeah, well, I mean, thanks for reaching out. I think I obviously… I obviously, you know, enjoyed working with you, and you were working with me, so… I mean, I share this with you, so you kind of know, like, kind of the direction things are headed in. Yeah, I do think that one of those roles, I think, is kind of where I, you know, if you were to come in, like, I could try to… I mean, I would like to try to find a fit for you there.
150 00:20:29.240 ⇒ 00:20:31.530 Robert Tseng: So, I mean, I think we can…
151 00:20:32.050 ⇒ 00:20:39.279 Robert Tseng: you know, I guess… it’s like, no rush, this would probably be, like, 2026 to start, because, like, I need to get this approved by…
152 00:20:39.430 ⇒ 00:20:52.589 Robert Tseng: like, our board and everything at this point, so, yeah, but, like, I think that’s… this is… this, to me is, like, why… assembling this team is, like, important to me, and, I think we’re in a much different place. Like, I think back then, like.
153 00:20:52.810 ⇒ 00:21:04.269 Robert Tseng: you know, obviously, we can only… I was only doing part-time work with you, or whatever, but yeah, I mean, I feel more confident that we can… we can, we can… we can get talent like you, so…
154 00:21:04.270 ⇒ 00:21:04.700 Jasmin Multani: Don’t worry.
155 00:21:04.700 ⇒ 00:21:08.279 Robert Tseng: No worries, no worries, I think it’s… it was…
156 00:21:08.310 ⇒ 00:21:19.809 Jasmin Multani: just by chat, too. It’s like, the same time that I was interviewing with Jarrell was the same time I interviewed with TikTok, and from there, I was like, oh, this offer happened to evolve.
157 00:21:19.990 ⇒ 00:21:26.079 Jasmin Multani: When I wasn’t really expecting what was happening, because I was also, like, closing the lease on my dad’s.
158 00:21:26.370 ⇒ 00:21:26.930 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
159 00:21:26.930 ⇒ 00:21:34.550 Jasmin Multani: and everything. So, I think… Things just happen, and
160 00:21:34.700 ⇒ 00:21:49.580 Jasmin Multani: you gave me a really clear boundary about the time of… of time commitment that’s needed to be part of the team, and in the high growth potential of Pengu at the time, I was like, this makes sense. And I know Jurell was also in a similar situation, and you get.
161 00:21:49.580 ⇒ 00:21:49.940 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
162 00:21:49.940 ⇒ 00:21:56.510 Jasmin Multani: same bandwidth. So I do feel like that’s a clear… it’s clear and steady leadership of saying, hey, this is the rule.
163 00:21:56.650 ⇒ 00:22:01.970 Jasmin Multani: It’s a matter of, like, bandwidth, from each person.
164 00:22:01.970 ⇒ 00:22:03.570 Robert Tseng: So, that’s always, like.
165 00:22:03.570 ⇒ 00:22:10.750 Jasmin Multani: felt like, okay, I… I like the spirit of this team, and how professional things can keep evolving.
166 00:22:10.750 ⇒ 00:22:28.340 Jasmin Multani: And that’s why I’m reaching back, too. That’s why I also, like, went to bowling, like, kept hanging out with Hannah. I was like, oh, I really like talking to her, and, like, we just had, like, such a long conversation, on Sunday about so many different topics, too. And again, she never really pushed it on me. She was just like, oh, how do you, like, get TikTok? Okay.
167 00:22:28.380 ⇒ 00:22:30.370 Jasmin Multani: Have you considered Brainforge? And I was like.
168 00:22:30.880 ⇒ 00:22:40.939 Jasmin Multani: I wasn’t trying to be sleuthy, or in any way. I literally was like, this is a girl who lives in Culver City, she also grew up in Orange County.
169 00:22:40.940 ⇒ 00:22:41.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
170 00:22:41.490 ⇒ 00:22:57.169 Jasmin Multani: I feel like people who grew up in SoCal just have a similar wavelength, and you just end up wanting to, like, keep, egging each other on, and, like, spending more time together. So that’s, that’s really it, and I’m like, okay, you know.
171 00:22:57.170 ⇒ 00:23:02.429 Jasmin Multani: If this… there is a chance for me to, like, come back, with a more,
172 00:23:02.490 ⇒ 00:23:06.709 Jasmin Multani: and understand, like, how I can bring my talent over to you guys. Yeah.
173 00:23:06.790 ⇒ 00:23:09.410 Jasmin Multani: And also be clear about bandwidth, too, right?
174 00:23:09.410 ⇒ 00:23:09.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
175 00:23:09.980 ⇒ 00:23:12.590 Jasmin Multani: maybe, like, a scale-up where I’m doing, like.
176 00:23:12.700 ⇒ 00:23:19.709 Jasmin Multani: 10 hours at Pungo, and then still full-time at TikTok, or is this something that requires me to be, like, full-time with Pungo? Sorry.
177 00:23:19.710 ⇒ 00:23:20.070 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
178 00:23:20.070 ⇒ 00:23:21.190 Jasmin Multani: Not long ago.
179 00:23:21.190 ⇒ 00:23:22.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah, all good, yeah.
180 00:23:22.190 ⇒ 00:23:26.080 Jasmin Multani: I’m also open to hearing about that as well.
181 00:23:26.240 ⇒ 00:23:35.429 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, let’s definitely keep in touch on this. I think, obviously, it’s a bit bigger than, like, I can’t just, like, pull you in the next day anymore, like, I…
182 00:23:35.430 ⇒ 00:23:36.100 Jasmin Multani: Of course.
183 00:23:36.100 ⇒ 00:23:36.670 Robert Tseng: the…
184 00:23:36.700 ⇒ 00:23:48.670 Robert Tseng: I mean, you would… I would definitely want you to, you know, chat with Utam, and then chat with a couple other of the senior folks, and… but yeah, kind of the way that I see it, like, I mean, I guess,
185 00:23:48.670 ⇒ 00:24:08.440 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we can definitely do a scale-up. I mean, I think this is pretty, like, like, I know you personally at this point as well, so, like, I’m not worried, like, about that. But yeah, I think, like, obviously the goal is to try to, like, qualify for, you know, both sides, like, you know, can we really work together full-time? You know, especially as I’m assembling this team.
186 00:24:08.530 ⇒ 00:24:16.560 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I kind of view these four people, I mean, some of them will be, like, kind of just, like, re… re,
187 00:24:16.990 ⇒ 00:24:30.999 Robert Tseng: like, I haven’t fully decided, like, how many people I’m gonna just repurpose from our internal roles already, like, people to just, like, kind of bump them up to these rules, versus kind of bringing in people from the outside. But yeah, I think having you be part of that, like.
188 00:24:31.670 ⇒ 00:24:42.610 Robert Tseng: process would… would… would be… I mean, that’s… I’m very excited about that. So I do… I do think that, you know, having you on… on deliver… on delivery was great. I mean, you have really good
189 00:24:42.610 ⇒ 00:24:54.590 Robert Tseng: I mean, good client presence, like, I mean, obviously you’re technically competent, and, you know, I think you’re a strategic-minded person, so I do think that you would be a good candidate for, like, this kind of delivery lead kind of, like.
190 00:24:54.590 ⇒ 00:24:56.760 Jasmin Multani: Role that we have envisioned.
191 00:24:56.760 ⇒ 00:25:10.339 Robert Tseng: But I could also see you kind of plugging into other things as well. So, I mean, I think, yeah, I would say between that or, like, BizOps might be another area that, like, could be interesting for you. That’s more of, like, kind of…
192 00:25:10.440 ⇒ 00:25:25.850 Robert Tseng: you know, internal strategy offers and kind of, like, partnerships and stuff like that, because a lot of our growth has been… has been through that as well. So, you know, that’s, you know, that’s another part of the business that I would like to, you know, spend some time talking to you about.
193 00:25:25.850 ⇒ 00:25:31.489 Robert Tseng: But yeah, I think that’s kind of, like, next steps, like, where I feel like we could be headed towards, like, we just…
194 00:25:31.710 ⇒ 00:25:35.140 Robert Tseng: Have some dedicated time for the next couple weeks,
195 00:25:35.390 ⇒ 00:25:47.400 Robert Tseng: yeah, kind of share more, like, what the scope for these different… these roles would be, and then, like, have you talk to a few people on the team. Yeah, I think, like, you know, aiming really, like.
196 00:25:47.680 ⇒ 00:25:52.749 Robert Tseng: 2026, like, start of the year is kind of, like, where we would probably try to
197 00:25:52.910 ⇒ 00:26:04.569 Robert Tseng: try to, you know, if it’s a… if we could find something, like, I think that would be a good time to get this going. Yeah, how does… does that sound okay, timeline-wise and everything?
198 00:26:04.570 ⇒ 00:26:10.970 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, that actually sounds perfect, because, we just got reorged into the data science pod, so I’m.
199 00:26:10.970 ⇒ 00:26:16.070 Robert Tseng: Oh, cool. Yeah, cool. In Pius’s, world.
200 00:26:16.070 ⇒ 00:26:29.219 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely in Pius’s world. And also ironic, too, that, like, I had joined Pungo, and then… Yeah. And then I met someone who was also from TikTok, and he was like, don’t do it.
201 00:26:29.790 ⇒ 00:26:38.780 Jasmin Multani: Like, okay. But at least because my manager’s, like, one of the first data scientist hires at USDS,
202 00:26:39.280 ⇒ 00:26:47.080 Jasmin Multani: this time and this relationship to figure out, like, okay, what are learnings I can get? Like, what are the detections I’m making? And…
203 00:26:47.120 ⇒ 00:27:04.819 Jasmin Multani: having him… if it’s good enough for Andrew, then, that makes me even feel more confident in my own skills, too, and just brainstorm with him, brainstorm with the rest of the team as well. So I’m just trying to see what I can squeeze out from this reorg, and, like.
204 00:27:04.890 ⇒ 00:27:07.890 Jasmin Multani: all the brains around me.
205 00:27:08.200 ⇒ 00:27:13.300 Jasmin Multani: I don’t think… I still think it’s a promotion-starved,
206 00:27:13.840 ⇒ 00:27:30.310 Jasmin Multani: economy right now, especially at TikTok, I’ve seen really smart people get turned down, after, like, months of interviewing internally, so I think they’re pretty stagnant, but, headcount’s still good, so.
207 00:27:30.310 ⇒ 00:27:30.640 Robert Tseng: Luckily.
208 00:27:30.640 ⇒ 00:27:45.419 Jasmin Multani: My mission is just to, like, be project-focused, be, like, quality-focused for the next few months, and then eventually, like, take… take that information and hit the ground running for a team that,
209 00:27:45.830 ⇒ 00:27:50.430 Jasmin Multani: is more client-focused. I think that’s about me, it’s like, TikTok is a…
210 00:27:51.040 ⇒ 00:27:56.749 Jasmin Multani: it’s… it’s a different place… pace than DoorDash, really, really admired.
211 00:27:57.180 ⇒ 00:28:04.839 Jasmin Multani: like, all the learning curves I had at DoorDash, and it made me realize, like, wow, that time and space that I had was very, very unique, and such.
212 00:28:04.840 ⇒ 00:28:05.330 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
213 00:28:05.330 ⇒ 00:28:10.010 Jasmin Multani: I don’t think, it’s gonna be hard to recreate that magic.
214 00:28:10.010 ⇒ 00:28:10.640 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
215 00:28:11.050 ⇒ 00:28:18.930 Jasmin Multani: if I feel that way towards… and I’m feeling that weight towards Brainforge right now, so I may as well tap into that, because…
216 00:28:19.040 ⇒ 00:28:24.469 Jasmin Multani: I don’t know, the last year and a half. It’s, like, got great perks, benefits are great, okay?
217 00:28:24.470 ⇒ 00:28:24.830 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
218 00:28:24.830 ⇒ 00:28:26.840 Jasmin Multani: My health insurance has been great.
219 00:28:26.840 ⇒ 00:28:27.220 Robert Tseng: Hmm.
220 00:28:27.220 ⇒ 00:28:37.929 Jasmin Multani: But I’m also like, it just feels dystopian to be working on a really small part of the corner, and then be reorbed over and over again. It’s like…
221 00:28:38.190 ⇒ 00:28:57.620 Jasmin Multani: what’s going on? And I’m working on a few things, too. It’s like, I’m seeing people who are trading drugs online. We’re working with, like, we’re handing that off to law enforcement and stuff. So it is high-impact work, but it’s… with the amount of reorgs, I’m like, is this truly a priority for the entire company? Like, what’s going on?
222 00:28:57.860 ⇒ 00:28:58.480 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
223 00:28:59.280 ⇒ 00:29:07.579 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, no, I mean, I… I mean, I have so many more questions I would want to learn from what you’re… what you’ve been learning at TikTok. I think,
224 00:29:07.950 ⇒ 00:29:15.839 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think we… yeah, I mean, we’re looking to kind of bring in… I think we have the ability to bring in, like.
225 00:29:15.910 ⇒ 00:29:28.950 Robert Tseng: better talent at this point, and so, I mean, I’m excited for this next phase of growth, like, I… yeah, I think, it’s a good time. Like, I think we’re really knowing that we’re gonna have to
226 00:29:29.000 ⇒ 00:29:46.950 Robert Tseng: to level… level the team up in order to kind of keep… to keep going, and, yeah, I’m happy that we could reconnect and… and and yeah, have you be a part of that conversation as well. So, yeah, I’ll, like, next steps, I’ll… I kind of already share what that will look like. Obviously, there’s holiday kind of here and there, so there might be, like, some…
227 00:29:47.100 ⇒ 00:29:56.949 Robert Tseng: some abrupt weeks, but, I’ll connect you to the team, and, yeah, we’ll just get some of these conversations going.
228 00:29:57.580 ⇒ 00:30:01.600 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so… Does that sound okay?
229 00:30:01.750 ⇒ 00:30:09.910 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, that sounds great! Yeah. Keep me in the loop, I’ll still be hanging out with Hannah. We have to pick up our… we have to pick up our little ceramics, too.
230 00:30:09.910 ⇒ 00:30:10.910 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah?
231 00:30:10.910 ⇒ 00:30:13.020 Jasmin Multani: Yeah, we’re probably gonna grab food too, but…
232 00:30:13.920 ⇒ 00:30:18.250 Jasmin Multani: happy to have, like, a non-work relationship friendship with her as well.
233 00:30:18.850 ⇒ 00:30:19.310 Jasmin Multani: You know, yeah.
234 00:30:19.310 ⇒ 00:30:27.180 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s great. I mean, she says she loved it hanging out with you as well, so I’m glad that you guys got to meet at the, at the bowling bay.
235 00:30:27.750 ⇒ 00:30:28.520 Jasmin Multani: Of course.
236 00:30:28.940 ⇒ 00:30:35.079 Jasmin Multani: Okay. Cool. I’ll let you drop, but thanks so much for, reaching out and, like, entertaining this conversation with me.
237 00:30:35.080 ⇒ 00:30:38.110 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah, always a pleasure. Appreciate you, Jasmine.
238 00:30:39.000 ⇒ 00:30:40.150 Jasmin Multani: Take care!
239 00:30:40.630 ⇒ 00:30:41.280 Robert Tseng: I…