Meeting Title: Brainforge <> Trek Health Mixpanel intro call Date: 2025-11-07 Meeting participants: Robert Tseng, Elizabeth Young
WEBVTT
1 00:04:39.430 ⇒ 00:04:41.369 Robert Tseng: Hi, Robert, how are you?
2 00:04:42.200 ⇒ 00:04:44.789 Robert Tseng: Good, how are you? Is it Elizabeth, or do you have a…
3 00:04:44.790 ⇒ 00:04:46.790 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, Elizabeth is fine.
4 00:04:48.030 ⇒ 00:04:49.379 Robert Tseng: Yeah, happy Friday!
5 00:04:49.600 ⇒ 00:04:52.290 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, you too! Where are you calling from?
6 00:04:52.290 ⇒ 00:04:53.560 Robert Tseng: I’m in New York.
7 00:04:53.560 ⇒ 00:04:55.149 Elizabeth Young: Oh, so am I, yeah.
8 00:04:55.750 ⇒ 00:04:57.450 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, what park?
9 00:04:57.990 ⇒ 00:05:01.630 Elizabeth Young: I am in Brooklyn, New York, in Bed-Stuy. What about you?
10 00:05:01.850 ⇒ 00:05:04.870 Robert Tseng: Is that where… I guess, is that where your office is, or…
11 00:05:04.870 ⇒ 00:05:21.069 Elizabeth Young: No, I work from home. My company is largely remote, but also primarily based in San Francisco. We have, you know, our engineers are mostly in India, so we’re kind of all over the globe at this point.
12 00:05:21.420 ⇒ 00:05:29.320 Robert Tseng: Very cool. Yeah, I’m in Columbus Circle. Yeah, my team is also remote, so there’s only two of us in New York.
13 00:05:29.320 ⇒ 00:05:35.309 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. Well, awesome. So yeah, I’m, like.
14 00:05:35.550 ⇒ 00:05:45.540 Elizabeth Young: I can tell you a little bit about, you know, our company and what we’re looking for, in addition to, you know, what I put on the,
15 00:05:45.960 ⇒ 00:06:02.169 Elizabeth Young: input form. So, yeah, we’re a small team, we’re about 30 people, we raised our Series A fairly recently, you know, I’ve worked there under a year, and…
16 00:06:02.170 ⇒ 00:06:11.759 Elizabeth Young: I’ve been pushing for more analytics tracking, more user behavior tracking since I joined, but it’s been, you know, tough
17 00:06:11.760 ⇒ 00:06:26.110 Elizabeth Young: to make that happen. We are finally at a place where we can. We, you know, currently only use Google Analytics and Salesforce. So we’ve been,
18 00:06:26.790 ⇒ 00:06:41.919 Elizabeth Young: you know, researching different products, and we had originally… my PM, who is actually… he would be here, but he’s at his bachelor party right now. But he had originally chosen post-hoc.
19 00:06:41.920 ⇒ 00:06:47.589 Elizabeth Young: And we were trying to get that implemented and found that
20 00:06:48.700 ⇒ 00:06:58.039 Elizabeth Young: there was no real support from the team, and it was very complicated to implement. You know, we’re such a small…
21 00:06:58.860 ⇒ 00:07:07.949 Elizabeth Young: agile team that, anything we ask the engineers to do is, like, a big lift, you know?
22 00:07:08.100 ⇒ 00:07:08.610 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
23 00:07:08.610 ⇒ 00:07:20.099 Elizabeth Young: Basically, we… I think we’ve settled on Mixpanel. They’ve offered us the startup package. We’re looking for something that,
24 00:07:20.820 ⇒ 00:07:22.939 Elizabeth Young: Really, like,
25 00:07:23.920 ⇒ 00:07:36.679 Elizabeth Young: you know, I recognize that our engineers will have to do some stuff, we’d like to have some input as to what is being tracked, but as much as, like, we can kind of rely on someone to,
26 00:07:37.100 ⇒ 00:07:38.980 Elizabeth Young: You know,
27 00:07:39.050 ⇒ 00:07:58.149 Elizabeth Young: project manage and, suggest best practices and, you know, the best, events to track, you know, the best metrics to track, how to set up for different teams, the better. So yeah, that’s a bit about us.
28 00:07:59.360 ⇒ 00:08:10.079 Robert Tseng: I don’t know if you have any other questions, yeah. Yeah, yeah, sure. I think that’s… that’s helpful context. Yeah, I mean, I… I know all the product analytics tools. I’ve been…
29 00:08:10.110 ⇒ 00:08:28.980 Robert Tseng: A little bit of background. I know that you found me through the Mixpanel portal, but I run Brainforge. We’re basically a data and AI consultancy. Yeah, I mean, my specialty is in product analytics, and so I’ve kind of started in the Mixpanel world, and then have now… I mean, I’m a partner for Amplitude and Mixpanel.
30 00:08:28.980 ⇒ 00:08:31.709 Elizabeth Young: That we… Posthog doesn’t really have.
31 00:08:31.890 ⇒ 00:08:41.259 Robert Tseng: Yep, yeah, Post Hoc doesn’t have a partner program yet, they’re probably the newer players to the space, but I think what you ran into is pretty typical. It is a very, like.
32 00:08:41.710 ⇒ 00:08:50.429 Robert Tseng: engineer-friendly tool, but you do need a lot of technical expertise in-house, and especially if your dev team is overseas, like, I can imagine why, like.
33 00:08:50.510 ⇒ 00:09:02.870 Robert Tseng: with communication gaps and, like, kind of just… it’ll… there’s too much dependence on… on your own internal resourcing to, like, make it work. You know, they don’t really have, professional services, so… Right.
34 00:09:02.870 ⇒ 00:09:16.179 Elizabeth Young: And more so, like, if we want to, you know, invest in this product, like, we don’t want to do… we want to do it well, you know, so it’s worth the time and money to invest in someone to implement it well for us.
35 00:09:16.410 ⇒ 00:09:22.779 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So if you’re standing up from scratch, I think that’s great. It’s definitely a,
36 00:09:23.000 ⇒ 00:09:31.929 Robert Tseng: you know, usually I’m used to walking into messy situations, and it’s kind of like, I have to work with what we have, and then also kind of basically build a V2 in parallel.
37 00:09:32.380 ⇒ 00:09:38.119 Robert Tseng: So yeah, I could definitely advise on, like, the phases of, like, what the development looks like.
38 00:09:38.270 ⇒ 00:09:44.970 Robert Tseng: I guess what would be helpful, I’ve kind of taken a look at your core product, I’ve worked in the healthcare space, like, we’ve actually worked
39 00:09:45.480 ⇒ 00:09:50.890 Robert Tseng: More with, like… I know that, like, my understanding is, it’s…
40 00:09:51.040 ⇒ 00:09:57.090 Robert Tseng: I bet what you offer is a benchmarking platform targeted more towards, like.
41 00:09:57.880 ⇒ 00:10:01.180 Robert Tseng: perhaps, like, CFO or pricing teams that are…
42 00:10:01.180 ⇒ 00:10:20.390 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, it’s complicated. So, there was some legislation a few years ago that, healthcare pay… insurance payers had to make public the reimbursement rates they used to different people. So we, you know, the product itself is really simple, it’s the data that’s complicated.
43 00:10:20.500 ⇒ 00:10:28.320 Elizabeth Young: And now we are building out two other products. One is,
44 00:10:28.900 ⇒ 00:10:46.139 Elizabeth Young: for the healthcare organizations to track their contracts, so we’re calling that contract intelligence, and then we’re opening, we’re, starting, like, almost like an AI agent for,
45 00:10:46.290 ⇒ 00:10:56.400 Elizabeth Young: healthcare teams to be able to ask questions about payer policies. So, we kind of have these, like, 3 very simple products that we’re implementing.
46 00:10:56.400 ⇒ 00:10:58.570 Robert Tseng: Yeah. In typical startup fashion, they are…
47 00:10:58.570 ⇒ 00:11:01.650 Elizabeth Young: Messy. We’ve had, you know, no…
48 00:11:01.820 ⇒ 00:11:15.670 Elizabeth Young: haven’t invested in, like, user testing, and, like, you know, up till now, haven’t had any user behavior tracking, so we just really need to get our affairs in order in order to start, like, you know.
49 00:11:16.150 ⇒ 00:11:19.350 Elizabeth Young: To clean up our whole process, yeah.
50 00:11:19.750 ⇒ 00:11:21.300 Elizabeth Young: Okay, got it. Yeah.
51 00:11:21.760 ⇒ 00:11:28.719 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I mean, I think the product makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, I think I’ve… my experience is definitely more on…
52 00:11:29.470 ⇒ 00:11:34.420 Robert Tseng: I guess we’ve worked with a couple companies that do basically, like, revenue…
53 00:11:34.680 ⇒ 00:11:42.969 Robert Tseng: for pricing analysis as a service for, within, like, within particular clinics, so, like, to root cause, like, you’re being denied,
54 00:11:43.110 ⇒ 00:12:04.410 Robert Tseng: whatever claim, because you’re missing, like, some coding… there’s, like, some coding errors, or, like, mismatching or whatnot. So, yeah, like, it’s been more, like, helping, collections, I guess, and recovering cash faster, reducing denials, and, yeah, like, it’s… I mean, that product is probably different than yours. The engagement is very high. It’s typically…
55 00:12:04.410 ⇒ 00:12:09.960 Robert Tseng: you know, like, a claims specialist who’s going in and using this tool. And, you know.
56 00:12:10.020 ⇒ 00:12:19.719 Robert Tseng: Success is measured by if they’re able to go through claims at a faster, like, higher volume, they’re able to do it at a faster rate, more accuracy, like, those are very clear, like, benchmarks that.
57 00:12:19.720 ⇒ 00:12:32.559 Elizabeth Young: Like, I would say, like, the… our contracts product, like, the two new products we’re… we’re trying to build are more typical to that. The product we currently have that,
58 00:12:32.740 ⇒ 00:12:38.360 Elizabeth Young: you know, it’s… the UI is messy and everything, but it’s a very,
59 00:12:38.510 ⇒ 00:12:43.560 Elizabeth Young: We’re trying to just, like, make it so that the users.
60 00:12:43.560 ⇒ 00:12:47.450 Robert Tseng: actually get the information they need, and it’s very… Sure.
61 00:12:47.450 ⇒ 00:13:01.210 Elizabeth Young: processes that we need to clean up, so we, you know, the teams that would be really invested in this are, like, obviously product engineering, you know, but mostly, other than that, CS, who, like, you know, has a lot of…
62 00:13:01.820 ⇒ 00:13:05.560 Elizabeth Young: Frustrated users who don’t quite know how to, you know.
63 00:13:05.560 ⇒ 00:13:06.170 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
64 00:13:06.350 ⇒ 00:13:21.350 Elizabeth Young: get the information they need. So, yeah, we’re interested in tracking that, but I don’t… I also don’t know, but if it’s possible to even, like, you know, notify our CS team if, you know, a customer
65 00:13:21.540 ⇒ 00:13:24.719 Elizabeth Young: Found something where they didn’t,
66 00:13:24.870 ⇒ 00:13:33.159 Elizabeth Young: there were, like, no results found, or I don’t know if they reached, like, some kind… were frustrated in some way, like, that kind of thing would be cool as well.
67 00:13:33.160 ⇒ 00:13:35.299 Robert Tseng: Sure. Yeah. Yeah,
68 00:13:35.520 ⇒ 00:13:46.330 Robert Tseng: Okay, that’s… that’s helpful context, and I think, kind of, it draws a good distinction between, like, kind of two very different types of products. One, obviously, we kind of… the workflow is very clear, like, a lot of different
69 00:13:46.330 ⇒ 00:14:05.620 Robert Tseng: steps to the engagement, like, the… how we measure, success is very clear there. For your product, obviously, it’s a lot more about making sure, did they get the information that they needed? The UI elements may change in your product, and you may be pretty early in that journey, which is why I think, kind of, I just want to, like, kind of caveat by saying,
70 00:14:05.850 ⇒ 00:14:17.749 Robert Tseng: Yeah, maybe you’re talking to other folks, but sometimes the more typical way to implement product analytics is, like, yeah, you start to track everything on the UI, but I don’t think that would actually be the best approach here, based on what you’re telling me.
71 00:14:17.880 ⇒ 00:14:20.429 Elizabeth Young: I think what’s helpful is.
72 00:14:20.430 ⇒ 00:14:39.580 Robert Tseng: you know, it’s still kind of a multi-step, or multi-phase, like, process, but typically what, you know, if you work with… if you work with us, what we do is, like, we have a design phase where we focus on, you know, one or two workflows. So let’s say that, like, you have… you know, you know, there is, like, one very clear, like, kind of…
73 00:14:41.180 ⇒ 00:15:00.960 Robert Tseng: you know, workflow that your users are trying to figure out in your product, and we just kind of design around… we just design end-to-end kind of, like, the… what needs to be tracked for that particular workflow. We implement it, build the reporting layer for that, and then if that looks good, then we can start to replicate that as, like, you know, in a modular way across other workflows.
74 00:15:00.960 ⇒ 00:15:12.859 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, yeah. So, that’s typically how I prefer to work. Yeah, and when you say implement it, do you work with our engineers to implement it, or are you guys actually, like, implementing it on behalf of our engineers?
75 00:15:12.860 ⇒ 00:15:15.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah, we can… we can do… we can do both, I think.
76 00:15:15.420 ⇒ 00:15:15.780 Elizabeth Young: Thank you.
77 00:15:15.930 ⇒ 00:15:16.840 Robert Tseng: It’s…
78 00:15:17.120 ⇒ 00:15:27.169 Robert Tseng: I mean, just from experience, like, typically, especially with, like, a more regular healthcare client, I don’t know, engineering seems to kind of have more… it does more gatekeeping, so they prefer.
79 00:15:27.170 ⇒ 00:15:27.620 Elizabeth Young: Right.
80 00:15:27.620 ⇒ 00:15:42.409 Robert Tseng: But obviously letting us do it, like, you know, I think I’d be able to provide better estimates, because I know how my team works, so we can kind of talk about that when we get there. But yeah, I think probably a good way to move forward is, like.
81 00:15:42.570 ⇒ 00:15:43.700 Robert Tseng: You know, if we…
82 00:15:43.830 ⇒ 00:15:57.469 Robert Tseng: We do this design exercise, it probably takes, like, up to a week, make sure that we kind of show you the plan, and then your team can either kind of take it in, we have, like, a full tracking plan template with all the specs that your engineers can implement off of.
83 00:15:57.470 ⇒ 00:16:04.050 Robert Tseng: Or if you’re like, we don’t have capacity to do this, we want you to implement it, my team can jump in and we can do the implementation as well.
84 00:16:04.330 ⇒ 00:16:06.170 Elizabeth Young: Cool. Alright.
85 00:16:06.410 ⇒ 00:16:12.479 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, can we discuss, like, what’s offered and, you know, pricing and stuff like that?
86 00:16:12.780 ⇒ 00:16:18.979 Robert Tseng: Yeah, sure. So I kind of… let me see if I can pull up a couple things…
87 00:16:19.460 ⇒ 00:16:21.869 Robert Tseng: So,
88 00:16:26.790 ⇒ 00:16:29.169 Robert Tseng: Just give me a minute,
89 00:16:41.400 ⇒ 00:16:43.449 Robert Tseng: Okay, I’ll share my screen.
90 00:16:44.730 ⇒ 00:17:04.230 Robert Tseng: So yeah, as far as, like, kind of, like, deliverables that you would get in this, like, initial phase, this is kind of, like, you know, a very sample… a sample of, like, this event data design that I described. So, you know, this is… this is just, like, a dummy environment we made, but, yeah, pretty much we take one workflow within your product, we run it end-to-end.
91 00:17:04.230 ⇒ 00:17:08.529 Robert Tseng: You know, the orange stickies are kind of the events that we’d be tracking.
92 00:17:08.710 ⇒ 00:17:17.309 Robert Tseng: you know, there’s a balance between, okay, do you use the, you know, the Mixpanel SDK out of the box, and they have an auto tracker that pretty much tracks every element.
93 00:17:17.859 ⇒ 00:17:25.429 Robert Tseng: That’s a very easy thing to stand up first, just so you have some data flowing to Mixpanel, but you still want to clearly define, like, what are those, like.
94 00:17:25.809 ⇒ 00:17:31.199 Robert Tseng: you know, milestone moments within the workflow. Like, I guess maybe, you know, this is, like.
95 00:17:31.389 ⇒ 00:17:42.119 Robert Tseng: we built for, like, Miro, but it’s like, you know, for their board’s workflow, they need to, like, join a workspace, they need to actually create a board, whether the first time they update it, or… and then.
96 00:17:42.120 ⇒ 00:17:42.590 Elizabeth Young: shared…
97 00:17:42.590 ⇒ 00:17:44.700 Robert Tseng: Like, those are kind of the milestones, so maybe.
98 00:17:44.700 ⇒ 00:17:47.089 Elizabeth Young: Do you mind if I screenshot this, actually?
99 00:17:47.090 ⇒ 00:17:48.240 Robert Tseng: Sure, of course.
100 00:17:48.400 ⇒ 00:17:49.300 Elizabeth Young: Okay.
101 00:17:49.520 ⇒ 00:17:55.280 Robert Tseng: And, this recording is, or this video is recorded, so I can send it to you after the call, too, so you can review it.
102 00:17:55.280 ⇒ 00:17:55.800 Elizabeth Young: Great.
103 00:17:56.730 ⇒ 00:18:11.080 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so, like, this kind of is the step one, where I probably… it might be one… usually one session’s enough, but maybe one or two sessions with whoever your, like, PM is, I guess, who can kind of, like, talk me through, like, what are these core workflows?
104 00:18:11.080 ⇒ 00:18:35.119 Robert Tseng: you know, maybe we flush out a few, but then we just kind of pick one or two to really, like, run at. And so that gets translated into a tracking plan, which ends up kind of being, you know, basically in writing, the event names, the triggers that are kind of described, like, the actual properties that we want to kind of, like, custom code into it. So, properties are, like, you know, it’s basically, like, JSON snippets, so…
105 00:18:35.120 ⇒ 00:18:58.160 Robert Tseng: when you’re, like, if it’s form captures, like, what are the answers to the form? Or if you’re labeling a user, maybe it’s, like, like, where they came in from, like, their source, or, you know, whatever, project name, or whatever kind of identifiers that are helpful metadata to go back and do drill downs, which is the main feature of Mixpanel, is their ability to enable
106 00:18:58.160 ⇒ 00:19:11.679 Robert Tseng: funnel reporting and segmentation very quickly for all non-technical users. So this is, like, I would say a really important part to define, like, what those properties are. Yeah, and then this is just the spec that gets handed off to the engineering team.
107 00:19:11.680 ⇒ 00:19:12.110 Elizabeth Young: Yeah.
108 00:19:12.110 ⇒ 00:19:14.959 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so that’s pretty much that.
109 00:19:14.960 ⇒ 00:19:16.260 Elizabeth Young: That’s great, yeah.
110 00:19:16.260 ⇒ 00:19:25.979 Robert Tseng: The third one, I can’t really show you other people’s mixed battle reports, but, yeah, I mean, it would just be kind of the reporting side, where, you know, you talked about
111 00:19:26.070 ⇒ 00:19:45.079 Robert Tseng: I mean, it sounded like, yeah, there’s this, like, customer frustration, kind of aspect, like, wanting to know, like, what… did they get the information they really needed? That, to me, sounds like, like a customer activation workflow, is what we would typically call it. It’s kind of like finding that aha moment.
112 00:19:45.560 ⇒ 00:19:57.090 Robert Tseng: And I think there’s, like, a couple approaches to kind of go for it, but, like, an anecdote would be, you know, Facebook just kind of figured out that, customers, like, hit
113 00:19:57.880 ⇒ 00:20:04.410 Robert Tseng: become a lot more sticky after they add… users become more sticky after they add their first 7 friends.
114 00:20:04.720 ⇒ 00:20:05.070 Elizabeth Young: It’s.
115 00:20:05.070 ⇒ 00:20:19.309 Robert Tseng: So, if you’re… if you’re creating a Facebook account for the first time, everything in the product is really kind of driving you to add 7 friends first. Yeah. And, like, that first, you know, that… there’s that… once they… once they pass that, they can… they can really see kind of a…
116 00:20:19.630 ⇒ 00:20:26.729 Robert Tseng: a big, leap up in retention. So, you know, whatever that kind of, like.
117 00:20:26.840 ⇒ 00:20:38.039 Robert Tseng: flow looks like for your product. You know, if they found the information that they wanted, they’ll come back and they’ll purchase other pro… or they’ll… they’ll come in… come back into your product to get other types of data, or…
118 00:20:38.240 ⇒ 00:20:41.940 Robert Tseng: I think we would just have to kind of figure out what that looks like.
119 00:20:41.940 ⇒ 00:20:42.670 Elizabeth Young: Yeah.
120 00:20:42.670 ⇒ 00:20:47.219 Robert Tseng: and design some reporting around… around that objective. So,
121 00:20:47.280 ⇒ 00:21:04.419 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I think that’s pretty much it. Then we kind of… maybe I’ll put together a deck, try to show you, like, some objectives that we kind of drive towards, like, kind of next steps of further development and maintenance. But yeah, I think we can do all that typically within two weeks, as kind of, like, what I would say to someone.
122 00:21:05.760 ⇒ 00:21:13.889 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I would say 2 to 4 weeks, depending, like, the variance is really based off of, like, how fast your engineering team moves.
123 00:21:13.890 ⇒ 00:21:19.659 Elizabeth Young: If that’s for, like, kind of the first, the first,
124 00:21:19.800 ⇒ 00:21:27.059 Elizabeth Young: process that we… like, the kind of template one, or if you’re saying for the full suite of.
125 00:21:27.060 ⇒ 00:21:28.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, for the full suite of things.
126 00:21:28.390 ⇒ 00:21:28.980 Elizabeth Young: Okay.
127 00:21:28.980 ⇒ 00:21:39.770 Robert Tseng: It, yeah, it won’t cover everything in your product. I think this is just, like, how we run end-to-end for, like, one or two, kind of, core workflows. Yeah. Yeah, I think…
128 00:21:40.020 ⇒ 00:21:41.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s… that
129 00:21:42.320 ⇒ 00:21:51.309 Robert Tseng: we prefer to do that over spending, like, a month or two months, like, just tracking everything, and then, like, kind of building out in phases. So, yeah.
130 00:21:52.130 ⇒ 00:22:03.089 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, pricing-wise, yeah, that’s, that’s like a fixed price. We, we just started at 5K, so we get all that for 5K. We can kind of adjust, like.
131 00:22:03.270 ⇒ 00:22:08.009 Robert Tseng: You know, speed, scope, a little bit, if you, you know, if there’s… if there’s… if that’s kind of…
132 00:22:08.180 ⇒ 00:22:17.190 Robert Tseng: Something that we need to talk through. But yeah, I think that’s kind of how we’ve structured this… the initial… an initial engagement.
133 00:22:18.020 ⇒ 00:22:27.340 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha. And how do you guys typically like to communicate? Like, would you join our Slack, or do you, like, like to just schedule meetings, or…
134 00:22:27.340 ⇒ 00:22:38.490 Robert Tseng: Yeah, Slack’s great. So typically, well, I think for in the beginning, like, I would probably be, like, the main person to kind of get all this started. And then, like.
135 00:22:38.880 ⇒ 00:22:57.869 Robert Tseng: if we end up needing an engineer, like, I’ll pull in, like, an engineer for my team. I… you know, so there may be… and, like, there’s gonna be a PM on my side as well, so at most, it’ll be, like, 3 or 4 people that’ll be in a Slack channel with you. We do, kind of, async updates as much as we can.
136 00:22:57.940 ⇒ 00:23:07.099 Robert Tseng: We’re… and we can do, like, a week… we could do weekly calls, just to kind of keep things on track, aside from, like, kind of any other time that we need with your team.
137 00:23:07.290 ⇒ 00:23:15.149 Robert Tseng: Just to, like, give, give, give readouts and kind of make sure we’re, we’re tracking on the progress that we’ve made.
138 00:23:15.770 ⇒ 00:23:29.730 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha. So, my understanding is, like, you would go into the product yourself and kind of suggest, like, the event tracking and everything. Like, we could talk you through what we think, but, like, you also kind of,
139 00:23:30.050 ⇒ 00:23:38.800 Elizabeth Young: Given your experience and stuff, like, we’ll suggest those events and, all the different trackers that we should do, right?
140 00:23:39.050 ⇒ 00:23:49.550 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, there’s definitely, like, obviously you know your product the best, getting your perspective is more valuable than me just going in blind and kind of figuring it out.
141 00:23:49.650 ⇒ 00:23:52.749 Elizabeth Young: Although I have seen a lot of different products, so I could…
142 00:23:52.750 ⇒ 00:23:53.570 Robert Tseng: you know, I have, like.
143 00:23:53.570 ⇒ 00:24:00.090 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, no, we like someone else to kind of tell us what to do, because we’re relatively new to this.
144 00:24:00.090 ⇒ 00:24:00.790 Robert Tseng: Okay.
145 00:24:00.790 ⇒ 00:24:05.850 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, and the team itself, you know,
146 00:24:06.250 ⇒ 00:24:18.730 Elizabeth Young: they’re just not mostly product people, so they’re just, like, the whole, I… they’re not, familiar with… it’s not intuitive to them, the value that you get from really tracking all these, events.
147 00:24:18.870 ⇒ 00:24:29.370 Elizabeth Young: you know, it should be, but I guess it’s just not. Okay, and then, do you do any kind of, like, training as part of the package? Like, what is that?
148 00:24:29.370 ⇒ 00:24:49.029 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah, I would say, like, that kind of, like, deck readout or whatever it looks like at the end when we’re kind of handing it off, you know, we assume that, like, someone internally is going to inherit this work, whether or not you continue to work with us. So yeah, there’s a training piece to it as well, where we will go through everything end-to-end of, like.
149 00:24:49.560 ⇒ 00:24:58.550 Robert Tseng: you know, we went from the design phase to the tracking phase, this is how we set up the reporting. If you were to extend the reporting, like, here are some ideas of how you could do so. So that’s, like.
150 00:24:58.550 ⇒ 00:24:58.930 Elizabeth Young: Yeah.
151 00:24:59.180 ⇒ 00:25:02.440 Robert Tseng: like, kind of practical mixed panel training that comes into this as well.
152 00:25:02.440 ⇒ 00:25:16.990 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha. And, I don’t know if you felt comfortable with this, but just, like, candidly, since you work with Amplify as well, do you think that we… our use case, just the little you know about it, is better suited for Mixpanel? Do you have an opinion one way or the other?
153 00:25:17.490 ⇒ 00:25:21.839 Robert Tseng: I think it really depends on who your end users are.
154 00:25:22.540 ⇒ 00:25:26.570 Robert Tseng: I… Think that more tech…
155 00:25:26.800 ⇒ 00:25:44.989 Robert Tseng: Nicole users, like, if you have a team of a lot more technical PMs, they probably like Amplitude more, but for Mixpanel, if you have more non-technical folks, then, like, they’ll like MixedPanel more. So, capabilities-wise, they’re, like, pretty… you know, the feature parity is, like, pretty close.
156 00:25:45.400 ⇒ 00:25:52.349 Robert Tseng: I mean, AI does… Amplitude has some more interesting… I think that they’re a more complicated product to use.
157 00:25:52.350 ⇒ 00:25:53.520 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, yeah.
158 00:25:53.710 ⇒ 00:25:57.179 Robert Tseng: But, yeah, I think it really depends on who’s gonna end up using it.
159 00:25:57.180 ⇒ 00:26:02.820 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, and I would say…
160 00:26:04.660 ⇒ 00:26:12.299 Elizabeth Young: probably more on the non-technical side, and I would, you know, emphasize that by saying, like.
161 00:26:12.450 ⇒ 00:26:19.389 Elizabeth Young: People are overworked, so it’s not even non-technical, it’s, like, not having the time to invest in a technical product.
162 00:26:19.390 ⇒ 00:26:20.460 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah.
163 00:26:20.730 ⇒ 00:26:36.360 Elizabeth Young: And then, so, just to confirm, you were saying, like, in terms of our team’s backend lift, it’s kind of what they want. Like, you can do stuff, but if they feel kind of, you know, proprietary about.
164 00:26:36.360 ⇒ 00:26:36.980 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
165 00:26:36.980 ⇒ 00:26:46.280 Elizabeth Young: their, you know, code and stuff that they could get involved. It’s like, you’d work with them, our back-end… our engineers, to whatever degree
166 00:26:46.380 ⇒ 00:26:48.340 Elizabeth Young: They need or they want.
167 00:26:48.720 ⇒ 00:27:01.479 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, actually, I… that’s a good point. I… I forgot to clarify. Yeah, the fixed pricing assumes that we’re not… we’re not doing the engineering. The engineering would be, like, we just do billable engineering hours.
168 00:27:01.760 ⇒ 00:27:02.580 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha.
169 00:27:02.770 ⇒ 00:27:03.549 Robert Tseng: So…
170 00:27:03.550 ⇒ 00:27:05.640 Elizabeth Young: for that beat, just curious.
171 00:27:05.640 ⇒ 00:27:08.660 Robert Tseng: We do $150 an hour for engineering, yeah.
172 00:27:08.790 ⇒ 00:27:10.099 Elizabeth Young: And do you have, like.
173 00:27:10.230 ⇒ 00:27:18.039 Elizabeth Young: I know it’s, like, impossible to estimate, but, like, a basic idea of how many hours the engineering lift would be?
174 00:27:18.040 ⇒ 00:27:37.769 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think we do try to scope it so that we’re not doing more than, like, 10 hours. So, that’s kind of why I said, like, one or two workflows, because for some companies, like, one workflow is of a lot, and so we just do one. But others, like, you know, if it’s just one… if it’s just, like, the onboarding, then, like, we do want to get to, like.
175 00:27:37.950 ⇒ 00:27:48.109 Robert Tseng: some intake to onboarding, plus, like, some actual usage of their products. So, like, we kind of expand the scope a little bit, based on, like, how fast we know we can implement the.
176 00:27:48.110 ⇒ 00:27:56.500 Elizabeth Young: Okay. Sorry, just to make sure I understand, so the 5K is one workflow, potentially, like, a few workflows?
177 00:27:56.500 ⇒ 00:27:57.420 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
178 00:27:57.990 ⇒ 00:28:07.500 Elizabeth Young: And then, like, you either set us up to do, like, the… the rest of it, because you’ve kind of templatized it and, like.
179 00:28:07.500 ⇒ 00:28:07.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
180 00:28:07.990 ⇒ 00:28:12.240 Elizabeth Young: You know, or you can continue to do the rest of it based on that template.
181 00:28:12.240 ⇒ 00:28:12.770 Robert Tseng: Yep.
182 00:28:12.770 ⇒ 00:28:15.859 Elizabeth Young: Then we would discuss, like, pricing at that point.
183 00:28:16.140 ⇒ 00:28:16.720 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
184 00:28:17.210 ⇒ 00:28:27.569 Elizabeth Young: Okay. Do you have, like, a typical, like, you know, add-on package that you do for, like, continuing the workflows moving forward, or, like…
185 00:28:27.570 ⇒ 00:28:34.739 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, our minimum retainer starts at 5K, so, like, 5K, we end up shifting to just, like, a bucket of hours, so…
186 00:28:34.740 ⇒ 00:28:36.010 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, gotcha.
187 00:28:36.010 ⇒ 00:28:39.489 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I, yeah, I would say it ranges, like, we have
188 00:28:39.760 ⇒ 00:28:48.359 Robert Tseng: There’s 5… 5K to $30K a month, it kind of depends on how much involvement we want from our team, so…
189 00:28:48.870 ⇒ 00:29:01.079 Elizabeth Young: Gotcha. Okay, cool, this all makes sense to me. So, yeah, we’re, like, talking to a few different agencies and people or whatnot, trying to just get a sense of the landscape. I mean,
190 00:29:01.420 ⇒ 00:29:07.970 Elizabeth Young: gonna bring back this information to my CEO and my PM and kind of see, like, what makes sense for us, but .
191 00:29:08.090 ⇒ 00:29:08.420 Robert Tseng: Sure.
192 00:29:08.420 ⇒ 00:29:17.349 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, I think I have a good sense of this. It’s great that you guys are in New York. I know a lot of these agencies are overseas, so it’s just good even from, like, a
193 00:29:17.650 ⇒ 00:29:32.910 Elizabeth Young: scheduling perspective for us to have you guys at the same relative time zone. Awesome. Well, thank you. Yeah, if you could send me just the recording, and, I’ll just email if I have any follow-up questions.
194 00:29:33.100 ⇒ 00:29:48.869 Robert Tseng: Sure. So yeah, so I’ll send you the recording, I’ll kind of, like, stitch through these notes into, like, the scope of work to kind of give you one pager that you can send out as well. And then curious, like, from, like, a decision process, I know you’re talking to other folks, but, like, when do you think you’re trying to make a decision?
195 00:29:48.870 ⇒ 00:29:58.260 Elizabeth Young: Yeah, we’re trying to make a decision by, like, end of next week. Like, we’re trying to move forward quickly, so, I don’t know if we’ll be able to accomplish that, but that’s kind of, like, the North Star
196 00:29:58.780 ⇒ 00:29:59.860 Elizabeth Young: Cool, yeah.
197 00:30:00.150 ⇒ 00:30:07.840 Robert Tseng: Sure, yeah, I think that, you know, that for… as well, just so I kind of… if we can get to a decision, like, a yes or no would be great.
198 00:30:07.840 ⇒ 00:30:09.499 Elizabeth Young: Totally, I understand.
199 00:30:09.500 ⇒ 00:30:22.740 Robert Tseng: Yeah, so I want to… I’ll send this to you probably end of day today, and then, yeah, if you have any questions, like, happy to hop on calls, kind of… we can… I’ll… I’ll do it… I’ll move things around to make sure you get all the information you need to make your decision.
200 00:30:23.240 ⇒ 00:30:25.450 Elizabeth Young: Thank you so much, Robert. Great to meet you, yeah.
201 00:30:25.450 ⇒ 00:30:26.709 Robert Tseng: Good to meet you, Elizabeth.
202 00:30:26.710 ⇒ 00:30:27.719 Elizabeth Young: Okay, take care.
203 00:30:27.720 ⇒ 00:30:29.579 Robert Tseng: Okay, talk to you later. Bye.