Meeting Title: Brainforge Engineering Team Sync Date: 2025-09-05 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:04.640 ⇒ 00:00:05.560 Awaish Kumar: Hello.
2 00:00:25.280 ⇒ 00:00:26.080 Awaish Kumar: Hello.
3 00:00:26.260 ⇒ 00:00:27.380 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, can you hear me?
4 00:00:30.580 ⇒ 00:00:31.799 Awaish Kumar: Oh, sorry.
5 00:00:45.040 ⇒ 00:00:46.309 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me now?
6 00:00:47.920 ⇒ 00:00:50.300 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I can… oh.
7 00:00:51.670 ⇒ 00:00:53.519 Awaish Kumar: Oh, great. How’s everything?
8 00:00:54.440 ⇒ 00:00:55.509 Awaish Kumar: Yep.
9 00:01:04.319 ⇒ 00:01:06.829 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, your mic… your mic went off again.
10 00:01:40.920 ⇒ 00:01:42.120 Awaish Kumar: Oh, yeah, sorry.
11 00:01:42.670 ⇒ 00:01:43.690 Uttam Kumaran: No, you’re good.
12 00:01:44.570 ⇒ 00:01:46.450 Awaish Kumar: All right, all of you.
13 00:01:47.430 ⇒ 00:01:50.010 Uttam Kumaran: I’m good. Good week, overall.
14 00:01:50.650 ⇒ 00:01:51.600 Awaish Kumar: Cook it, yeah.
15 00:01:54.040 ⇒ 00:01:54.800 Awaish Kumar: Huh.
16 00:01:57.310 ⇒ 00:02:00.609 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I don’t know what’s over with my connection today.
17 00:02:00.860 ⇒ 00:02:02.939 Uttam Kumaran: You’re fine, you’re okay, no problem.
18 00:02:05.380 ⇒ 00:02:06.620 Uttam Kumaran: How’s the week going?
19 00:02:09.660 ⇒ 00:02:16.640 Awaish Kumar: It’s been, not so good. I haven’t had much work done this week like that.
20 00:02:17.000 ⇒ 00:02:25.119 Awaish Kumar: For two days, I’ve been sick, but overall, yeah, all good.
21 00:02:30.840 ⇒ 00:02:33.969 Uttam Kumaran: How do you think, you know, last… last month went?
22 00:02:37.530 ⇒ 00:02:40.350 Awaish Kumar: Like, for me, it was good.
23 00:02:40.980 ⇒ 00:02:50.420 Awaish Kumar: I… like, I had a lot of, things to work on, Development work, and then,
24 00:02:50.810 ⇒ 00:02:57.809 Awaish Kumar: I was sort of trying to help with client serves, like, ABC, or Insomnia, or whatever, whatever it requires.
25 00:02:58.240 ⇒ 00:03:04.460 Awaish Kumar: There was some, you know, documentations and management, so… Yeah, it was…
26 00:03:04.750 ⇒ 00:03:07.730 Awaish Kumar: Very productive, the last month.
27 00:03:08.390 ⇒ 00:03:10.569 Awaish Kumar: And even the last week was really weird.
28 00:03:12.480 ⇒ 00:03:15.659 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think so, too. I think probably, like, toughest part
29 00:03:16.040 ⇒ 00:03:19.460 Uttam Kumaran: It was just, like, you know, we had a lot of people changes.
30 00:03:19.590 ⇒ 00:03:21.100 Uttam Kumaran: So I think that was, like.
31 00:03:21.240 ⇒ 00:03:26.370 Uttam Kumaran: That was probably, for me, emotionally, really difficult.
32 00:03:27.200 ⇒ 00:03:30.510 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, probably the thing I’m, like, reflecting on most is, like.
33 00:03:30.770 ⇒ 00:03:35.229 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, like, where did we make a mistake, and like, how can we prevent that in the future?
34 00:03:35.670 ⇒ 00:03:40.209 Uttam Kumaran: But I think overall, like, it was… it was… it was all for positive, like.
35 00:03:40.770 ⇒ 00:03:48.589 Uttam Kumaran: I, you know, I’m hopeful to hear about Eden and the fact that, like, we can run that client with less people, but I’m also just…
36 00:03:48.880 ⇒ 00:03:52.680 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I want people in the company who are, like.
37 00:03:52.990 ⇒ 00:03:57.029 Uttam Kumaran: Committed to the business, and, like, want to help us grow, and want to grow with the company.
38 00:03:57.150 ⇒ 00:04:03.990 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like the people we have now are that way, you know, and so… Yeah.
39 00:04:03.990 ⇒ 00:04:04.350 Awaish Kumar: Fair enough.
40 00:04:04.350 ⇒ 00:04:04.970 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I think…
41 00:04:05.480 ⇒ 00:04:15.180 Awaish Kumar: So, for the, like, for the Eden side, like, the current staff, I think it’s okay, like, I’m not sure, how Henry’s could…
42 00:04:15.400 ⇒ 00:04:20.170 Awaish Kumar: will be doing on Tableau. I haven’t actually seen him, like.
43 00:04:20.310 ⇒ 00:04:37.140 Awaish Kumar: implement anything on the Tableau side. I’m trying to push a few things, so, like, kind of, he has… he’s the mark… introduced as marketing’s lead. I’m also kind of a tech lead, so we… so I’m… I’m getting a little bit hard time,
44 00:04:37.690 ⇒ 00:04:41.880 Awaish Kumar: Pushing things far, like, further, because we kind of…
45 00:04:42.750 ⇒ 00:04:45.509 Awaish Kumar: Same page, Mike mentioned.
46 00:04:45.900 ⇒ 00:05:00.899 Awaish Kumar: like, for example, for Tavilateri, Annie have been assigning estimations, deadlines, and things like that, so we have improved that. On the AE side, on our technical tracking and on the other side, it’s still, lagging.
47 00:05:01.330 ⇒ 00:05:09.719 Awaish Kumar: I’m… although it’s not something we can’t handle, right? It’s just that, like, for example, I…
48 00:05:09.870 ⇒ 00:05:17.399 Awaish Kumar: I can go into segment and look for instructions and implement. It’s just that, okay, now we have a question, let’s do.
49 00:05:17.400 ⇒ 00:05:20.870 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, yes, Tisha do it. Yeah, I guess my question is, like.
50 00:05:21.670 ⇒ 00:05:25.799 Uttam Kumaran: And I was gonna call Henry and ask him, too, is like.
51 00:05:28.150 ⇒ 00:05:32.030 Uttam Kumaran: Should I… should I go ahead and just try to get Andre, like, set up?
52 00:05:32.190 ⇒ 00:05:35.259 Uttam Kumaran: For Tableau, should I go find another Tableau person?
53 00:05:37.860 ⇒ 00:05:41.269 Awaish Kumar: Like, so far, the feedback is that
54 00:05:42.080 ⇒ 00:05:49.490 Awaish Kumar: Henry, with Henry and Damelare, because Damelare has… quite a… Click.
55 00:05:49.870 ⇒ 00:05:55.009 Awaish Kumar: well, like, the experience with Tamaru, like, he can be, That go?
56 00:05:55.330 ⇒ 00:06:06.300 Awaish Kumar: while… if Henry can pick up the, really, the development on demo. If he says so, he can do that, right? But so far, we only have one
57 00:06:06.480 ⇒ 00:06:15.189 Awaish Kumar: Dashboard, which we wanted to push this week, and we haven’t… So I’m… I’m not really confident there.
58 00:06:15.320 ⇒ 00:06:15.990 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
59 00:06:17.000 ⇒ 00:06:19.179 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, let me try to call him later, then.
60 00:06:19.910 ⇒ 00:06:24.019 Uttam Kumaran: See if he just wants to catch up.
61 00:06:24.950 ⇒ 00:06:26.210 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ll ask him.
62 00:06:34.890 ⇒ 00:06:38.950 Awaish Kumar: But apart from that, like, I have…
63 00:06:39.560 ⇒ 00:06:44.289 Awaish Kumar: with the new process we are establishing, I think it will be easier for us to
64 00:06:44.490 ⇒ 00:06:49.279 Awaish Kumar: Figure out if people are struggling, and then reach out to them,
65 00:06:51.480 ⇒ 00:06:55.200 Awaish Kumar: Proactively, and, and fix the…
66 00:06:55.500 ⇒ 00:07:00.110 Awaish Kumar: Try to fix the issues before they grow.
67 00:07:00.290 ⇒ 00:07:02.800 Awaish Kumar: The only bet I have is that
68 00:07:02.950 ⇒ 00:07:07.770 Awaish Kumar: Whenever there is an issue, Things like…
69 00:07:08.460 ⇒ 00:07:11.030 Awaish Kumar: propag… like, I haven’t seen that.
70 00:07:11.140 ⇒ 00:07:15.490 Awaish Kumar: happening in, the companies I work for, like, God.
71 00:07:17.250 ⇒ 00:07:24.350 Awaish Kumar: Like, the… the junior develop… the developers, so it goes to them, like, okay, you are the, like, the…
72 00:07:25.670 ⇒ 00:07:29.700 Awaish Kumar: The issue, and, like, it’s because of you, it happened, or something, like.
73 00:07:30.390 ⇒ 00:07:34.230 Awaish Kumar: I want that communication to become, like.
74 00:07:34.500 ⇒ 00:07:37.270 Awaish Kumar: If a harsh feedback coming from client.
75 00:07:37.380 ⇒ 00:07:46.029 Awaish Kumar: Then we are the one to just, like, absorb that, and… Yeah. …make things urgent, but not, like,
76 00:07:46.690 ⇒ 00:07:48.360 Awaish Kumar: Propagate that feeling.
77 00:07:48.360 ⇒ 00:07:57.430 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, like, I think, you know me, I’ve always tried to say, like, don’t have any fear. Like, nobody here should have, like, a fear of messing up.
78 00:07:57.640 ⇒ 00:08:06.489 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because… just because a client yells at us doesn’t mean, like, anything happens, but if we don’t do anything, that’s when… that’s the real fear.
79 00:08:08.480 ⇒ 00:08:12.160 Awaish Kumar: But not everybody’s wired to handle that.
80 00:08:12.830 ⇒ 00:08:14.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree.
81 00:08:15.340 ⇒ 00:08:16.150 Awaish Kumar: So, like.
82 00:08:16.670 ⇒ 00:08:34.309 Awaish Kumar: like, the ones who can handle it can absorb the, like, the reaction from client, and then… yeah, I’m not saying, like, we don’t make it an urgent call to make some work done, like, it’s just that we don’t say it in a tone, like, okay, it’s urgent, let’s do it today, but just… just like that.
83 00:08:34.440 ⇒ 00:08:35.749 Uttam Kumaran: No, you have to triage.
84 00:08:36.350 ⇒ 00:08:36.950 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
85 00:08:38.510 ⇒ 00:08:46.240 Awaish Kumar: Like, when we have a ticket, we say, okay, it’s very urgent, let’s do it, like, but we don’t say, like, the harsh words, or…
86 00:08:46.700 ⇒ 00:08:47.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
87 00:08:48.420 ⇒ 00:08:51.250 Uttam Kumaran: But is that happening on Eden a lot, or what?
88 00:08:52.570 ⇒ 00:08:55.920 Awaish Kumar: Like, I just feel that, like, when we have the…
89 00:08:57.280 ⇒ 00:09:04.460 Awaish Kumar: like, the feedback from Robert or Amber, like, sometimes it comes as very raw, like, yeah.
90 00:09:04.810 ⇒ 00:09:07.350 Awaish Kumar: that there’s something wrong for slides.
91 00:09:07.910 ⇒ 00:09:12.260 Awaish Kumar: Comes as, like, okay, this…
92 00:09:12.500 ⇒ 00:09:21.289 Uttam Kumaran: But also, like, that… I think this is… a lot of people in companies are not used to, like, getting critical feedback, but critical doesn’t mean mean.
93 00:09:21.560 ⇒ 00:09:25.680 Uttam Kumaran: We’re all talking about the work, right? So, we’re talking about facts.
94 00:09:25.970 ⇒ 00:09:29.249 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the thing, they should push back. People should be open to pushing back.
95 00:09:29.380 ⇒ 00:09:37.279 Uttam Kumaran: Right? The… if you… if you just… if you just let it happen to you, yeah, it’s gonna be… it’s gonna be a bit of a struggle, but…
96 00:09:37.450 ⇒ 00:09:49.639 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s something that, like, we should, as engineers, we need to talk more about, you know? As an engineering group, how do you actually communicate effectively, and also push back on when things are not being fair, you know?
97 00:09:51.870 ⇒ 00:09:54.060 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, I, I think, like.
98 00:09:54.240 ⇒ 00:09:56.950 Awaish Kumar: Engineers are most productive than wind.
99 00:09:57.680 ⇒ 00:10:01.419 Awaish Kumar: When they’re not, like, plain, but… Yes.
100 00:10:03.210 ⇒ 00:10:11.000 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, you know, honestly, what you should do is, like, if that happens, we should do a… we could do a team retro on it, like.
101 00:10:11.250 ⇒ 00:10:18.660 Uttam Kumaran: you know, what are… what are… do we want to review that, and like, what do we need to talk about in order to make sure it doesn’t happen again? Yeah.
102 00:10:19.090 ⇒ 00:10:27.440 Awaish Kumar: But to me, it’s not, like, just for… like, my feedback is not for a single client, it’s, like, as a company, like, how we want to grow, right?
103 00:10:28.010 ⇒ 00:10:32.649 Awaish Kumar: Like, for every client, if we just bring that, like, it’s not…
104 00:10:33.050 ⇒ 00:10:36.159 Awaish Kumar: Like, people will, eventually, after 3, 4,
105 00:10:36.690 ⇒ 00:10:48.610 Awaish Kumar: public call, like, if their name comes in a public channel like that, 3-4 times, they will assume that, okay, now my time is… this is my time to move, because I might be fired, or…
106 00:10:49.050 ⇒ 00:10:50.970 Awaish Kumar: They really get feared, right?
107 00:10:51.180 ⇒ 00:10:53.870 Uttam Kumaran: But what do you… so what do you… what do you think we should do?
108 00:11:00.190 ⇒ 00:11:06.790 Awaish Kumar: So, what I… what I’m thinking is that, like, In such situations, like, we… Brr.
109 00:11:07.020 ⇒ 00:11:10.660 Awaish Kumar: Maybe the leads on the client, and they… we…
110 00:11:11.860 ⇒ 00:11:15.270 Awaish Kumar: Get the feedback, and try to,
111 00:11:15.480 ⇒ 00:11:22.619 Awaish Kumar: Like, whatever the issue is, create those tickets, make it urgent, top the team, but whatever coming from client.
112 00:11:22.890 ⇒ 00:11:28.290 Awaish Kumar: Should not be shared as it is, or, like, helping, like…
113 00:11:29.750 ⇒ 00:11:35.220 Awaish Kumar: No one’s name should come in public as, okay, he’s the one, to blame for, like…
114 00:11:35.480 ⇒ 00:11:53.630 Awaish Kumar: Maybe, like, we can give him the feedback, okay, it could have been better, like, in the private, you, in a one-on-one, we go there, we say, okay, in this situation, you could have done this thing better, that way, or whatever way, but it should not be in a Slack public.
115 00:11:58.170 ⇒ 00:12:02.139 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean… We should. I think, like…
116 00:12:04.730 ⇒ 00:12:10.250 Awaish Kumar: Like, if you send me, something I do prove,
117 00:12:10.610 ⇒ 00:12:19.009 Awaish Kumar: Like, I will take a constructive feedback, but if the tone changes, given this… you’re saying the same thing, then.
118 00:12:19.010 ⇒ 00:12:23.239 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, do you think it’s just mainly, like, Robert Amber being too direct?
119 00:12:26.300 ⇒ 00:12:37.600 Awaish Kumar: Not just, like, them, but overall, like, when the things are really direct, like, if they say something which is really…
120 00:12:38.060 ⇒ 00:12:50.100 Awaish Kumar: pointing towards me, and I have to find out, okay, okay, I was not to blame here. I’ve done my part, like, when it’s, attack someone else, then, like, then it goes like that. Yeah. The team, everybody starts
121 00:12:50.300 ⇒ 00:12:53.389 Awaish Kumar: Tagging each one, each other, okay.
122 00:12:58.180 ⇒ 00:13:00.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, my solution is that…
123 00:13:01.200 ⇒ 00:13:05.669 Uttam Kumaran: You just have to have a really clear line of communication between the PM and the lead.
124 00:13:06.180 ⇒ 00:13:08.390 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. And those people need to be, like.
125 00:13:09.200 ⇒ 00:13:11.069 Uttam Kumaran: Really, really locked in.
126 00:13:11.640 ⇒ 00:13:14.849 Uttam Kumaran: So that they insulate everybody, right?
127 00:13:15.010 ⇒ 00:13:22.460 Uttam Kumaran: the first person the PM should go to is the lead, and then you can decide how to handle it. Maybe that’s the thing you should… you should… you can institute.
128 00:13:23.770 ⇒ 00:13:27.199 Uttam Kumaran: The problem is, is, like, now you will be…
129 00:13:27.360 ⇒ 00:13:32.589 Uttam Kumaran: you will… you will become part of the bottleneck of communication. That being said.
130 00:13:32.840 ⇒ 00:13:36.360 Uttam Kumaran: You can then have control over the way you want people to communicate.
131 00:13:36.610 ⇒ 00:13:41.809 Uttam Kumaran: But this is the… the other, you know, I will… I will say, and this is where I will take the other side.
132 00:13:42.110 ⇒ 00:13:56.600 Uttam Kumaran: is that I think I still like that people can have direct communication. I still think that engineers should see the impact of their work, positive and negative, but I agree, the tone is definitely something that we can work on.
133 00:13:57.170 ⇒ 00:14:04.089 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t know, those are sort of two options. Like, we can go back and say, hey, the tone of things needs to be a certain way.
134 00:14:04.830 ⇒ 00:14:10.639 Uttam Kumaran: Or you can say things like, hey, before sending it, send it to me, we have a leads channel.
135 00:14:10.860 ⇒ 00:14:12.830 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s talk about it first, you know?
136 00:14:13.490 ⇒ 00:14:14.190 Awaish Kumar: Fair enough.
137 00:14:14.950 ⇒ 00:14:18.400 Awaish Kumar: Also, like, there is a… for a…
138 00:14:18.510 ⇒ 00:14:21.870 Awaish Kumar: Like, like, not everything has, has, like.
139 00:14:22.000 ⇒ 00:14:30.210 Awaish Kumar: not everything’s so, critical, right? You can always talk, but when you’re saying, like, okay, some… something has just fallen, like.
140 00:14:30.210 ⇒ 00:14:36.470 Uttam Kumaran: Well, but that’s the thing, is because someone is getting yelled at, and they’re projecting their…
141 00:14:36.810 ⇒ 00:14:41.779 Uttam Kumaran: their thing outward, right? And so, you’re right, but it’s not… it’s not…
142 00:14:42.910 ⇒ 00:14:47.209 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, it’s sort of like, how can we take it from one person to the whole team can absorb?
143 00:14:51.410 ⇒ 00:14:54.639 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, this is a good… you know, this is a good question that, like.
144 00:14:54.760 ⇒ 00:14:58.870 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe, I don’t know, have you met… have you met Alex on our team before?
145 00:15:00.060 ⇒ 00:15:02.250 Awaish Kumar: He’s a good…
146 00:15:02.480 ⇒ 00:15:04.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, he’s an advisor for the PM team.
147 00:15:04.740 ⇒ 00:15:06.570 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah, I made it once.
148 00:15:06.840 ⇒ 00:15:10.830 Uttam Kumaran: he could be a good person to ask how to solve it. So he works… do you know Bridgewater?
149 00:15:12.160 ⇒ 00:15:12.760 Awaish Kumar: I’m not.
150 00:15:13.530 ⇒ 00:15:17.639 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like a big hedge fund in New York, very, like, stressful.
151 00:15:17.820 ⇒ 00:15:23.650 Uttam Kumaran: environment. Like, one of the most… Stressful companies to work at.
152 00:15:23.780 ⇒ 00:15:25.850 Uttam Kumaran: He would be a good person to ask, like.
153 00:15:27.270 ⇒ 00:15:29.719 Uttam Kumaran: What are some op… what are some solutions?
154 00:15:30.940 ⇒ 00:15:32.410 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, okay.
155 00:15:33.150 ⇒ 00:15:34.550 Awaish Kumar: I’m gonna ask him…
156 00:15:34.850 ⇒ 00:15:36.730 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll connect you with him on Slack.
157 00:15:36.940 ⇒ 00:15:39.480 Uttam Kumaran: See if you can grab, like, 30 minutes with him.
158 00:15:39.900 ⇒ 00:15:42.250 Uttam Kumaran: I think he’ll have some good solutions.
159 00:15:42.410 ⇒ 00:15:49.589 Uttam Kumaran: Because his company… his company, they give… they’re… it’s called, like, radical transparency. So after every meeting.
160 00:15:49.710 ⇒ 00:15:52.060 Uttam Kumaran: You can vote on who in the meeting
161 00:15:52.230 ⇒ 00:16:00.290 Uttam Kumaran: was good or bad. And they get the feedback. And then you can also go see a leaderboard of who’s been good or bad across the company.
162 00:16:00.520 ⇒ 00:16:06.180 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a very, like, meritocratic company. It’s a really, like, stressful place.
163 00:16:06.400 ⇒ 00:16:12.269 Uttam Kumaran: But I think, talk to him, he may have some good ideas about, like, how to bridge the line between urgency and…
164 00:16:12.450 ⇒ 00:16:18.129 Uttam Kumaran: like… Being… and being not, like, being mean, basically.
165 00:16:20.190 ⇒ 00:16:22.059 Awaish Kumar: Okay, sure, I will do that.
166 00:16:24.730 ⇒ 00:16:28.090 Uttam Kumaran: Let me just send an… let me send that note right now, just so I don’t forget.
167 00:16:39.140 ⇒ 00:16:45.830 Awaish Kumar: Like, I’m… I’m… yeah, why I… I get this feeling is that whenever… when I joined, Rain Forge.
168 00:16:46.570 ⇒ 00:16:52.950 Awaish Kumar: And… One of the models we were working, like, product sales summary here, right?
169 00:16:53.240 ⇒ 00:16:57.529 Awaish Kumar: It was, like, getting a lot of data issues, and I was very new to…
170 00:16:58.150 ⇒ 00:16:58.520 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
171 00:16:58.520 ⇒ 00:17:00.740 Awaish Kumar: That’s actually what’s about 18 days, I don’t know.
172 00:17:00.930 ⇒ 00:17:06.330 Awaish Kumar: And, and we are, like, getting very harsh feedback, and okay…
173 00:17:06.550 ⇒ 00:17:11.660 Awaish Kumar: And now I’m not able to focus, because, like, okay, there’s… this feedback coming in, and…
174 00:17:11.829 ⇒ 00:17:15.409 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s true, I don’t think… but this is the thing, is like.
175 00:17:16.099 ⇒ 00:17:21.069 Uttam Kumaran: I can tell you why we are at that spot, is because the risk is so high.
176 00:17:22.189 ⇒ 00:17:27.179 Uttam Kumaran: like, if we lose Eden, the risk is very high, so…
177 00:17:27.180 ⇒ 00:17:28.159 Awaish Kumar: But is it.
178 00:17:28.160 ⇒ 00:17:33.740 Uttam Kumaran: The trade-off is rather lose the client or lose trust.
179 00:17:34.330 ⇒ 00:17:40.699 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a really difficult trade-off, but now we don’t need to do that anymore. We have process, right?
180 00:17:41.640 ⇒ 00:17:47.829 Awaish Kumar: But the thing is, at the… at that time, when someone is ultimately working on something.
181 00:17:48.950 ⇒ 00:17:52.870 Awaish Kumar: added pressure. Is it going to solve the problem? Is it going to…
182 00:17:52.870 ⇒ 00:18:04.579 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s the thing, but… but that’s where it’s like, you have to give that person who’s getting yelled at, you have to give them a way to have confidence that there’s gonna be… like, if that’s… hey, just come into call, because, for example.
183 00:18:04.620 ⇒ 00:18:18.640 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… I’m kind of like you, in that I’m like, no matter what, like, I’ll… we’ll fix it. Just tell me what it is. You can yell at me, I don’t care. Just tell me what you need to know, and I will figure out how to fix it. So maybe we… and then I will also shield the people.
184 00:18:18.750 ⇒ 00:18:29.359 Uttam Kumaran: But I do that… I do that for the whole company. Like, you know? So for me, it’s like, maybe with an individual project, we need to have, sort of, those lines of shields, you know?
185 00:18:29.360 ⇒ 00:18:29.930 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
186 00:18:30.910 ⇒ 00:18:36.689 Awaish Kumar: That’s what I’m saying, like, it’s… like, for you, it’s different, like, you’re the CEO, right?
187 00:18:36.830 ⇒ 00:18:37.480 Awaish Kumar: No.
188 00:18:37.480 ⇒ 00:18:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: I know what you mean, but like…
189 00:18:39.070 ⇒ 00:18:44.240 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know, like, anybody can yell at you, but you’ll say, I always smile, right? But employee can’t…
190 00:18:44.610 ⇒ 00:18:46.480 Awaish Kumar: do that, right? He’s getting jaded.
191 00:18:46.480 ⇒ 00:18:54.369 Uttam Kumaran: See, that’s… but, like, you’re never… but you’re never gonna get… this is where, like, again, I can make this clear, where nobody’s ever gonna get let go
192 00:18:54.600 ⇒ 00:18:58.949 Uttam Kumaran: For the fact that, like, like, they, like.
193 00:18:59.110 ⇒ 00:19:05.280 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, you’re only gonna get let go for the fact that you can’t do your job, not for the fact that, like.
194 00:19:05.470 ⇒ 00:19:12.140 Uttam Kumaran: you’re getting, like, there’s, like, harsh feedback or stuff like that, but again, I see what you mean. There’s no emotional safety.
195 00:19:13.900 ⇒ 00:19:14.770 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
196 00:19:17.640 ⇒ 00:19:23.120 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, yeah, okay, yeah, I’m not… I know, I understand, like,
197 00:19:23.230 ⇒ 00:19:31.389 Awaish Kumar: The team should talk to each other and handle that, but until everybody’s so well-grown to handle that, we have the fine solution.
198 00:19:31.890 ⇒ 00:19:35.489 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m gonna send this message in Slack, and then…
199 00:19:35.740 ⇒ 00:19:38.330 Uttam Kumaran: Feel free to add, and then, yeah, I’ll grab time with them.
200 00:19:41.130 ⇒ 00:19:42.340 Awaish Kumar: Okay, proud.
201 00:19:44.310 ⇒ 00:19:49.550 Awaish Kumar: although I wanted your feedback, which, like, 20 minutes, hours, Okay.
202 00:19:49.550 ⇒ 00:19:55.050 Uttam Kumaran: No, dude, this is it. This is what I want to talk about. Like, I want to talk about what’s top of mind for you.
203 00:19:55.220 ⇒ 00:20:00.039 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, if this is important, then, like, I want to find a solution.
204 00:20:00.150 ⇒ 00:20:04.580 Uttam Kumaran: I’m telling you that, like, I’m not… like…
205 00:20:04.910 ⇒ 00:20:15.819 Uttam Kumaran: I am like you, and so I’m probably not the best person to give, like, the best feedback. Alex is, like, an expert in, like, this area. I think he’ll have some solution for you to try.
206 00:20:17.140 ⇒ 00:20:20.150 Uttam Kumaran: So I want you to give… I want you to chat with him and see what he says.
207 00:20:21.830 ⇒ 00:20:22.560 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
208 00:20:22.830 ⇒ 00:20:33.120 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing I will tell you is we are gonna get… we’re getting more experienced PMs. So we’re just about to give an offer to, this guy.
209 00:20:33.880 ⇒ 00:20:37.450 Uttam Kumaran: let me just get his LinkedIn.
210 00:20:39.810 ⇒ 00:20:42.239 Uttam Kumaran: And so I’m very, very excited.
211 00:20:48.230 ⇒ 00:20:52.840 Uttam Kumaran: I sent it in Zoom.
212 00:21:01.630 ⇒ 00:21:04.840 Uttam Kumaran: So I went and saw him. He’s about 2 hours away from me.
213 00:21:04.990 ⇒ 00:21:06.849 Uttam Kumaran: I went and drove and saw him.
214 00:21:06.970 ⇒ 00:21:10.489 Uttam Kumaran: We… he went through all our 4 or 5 rounds of interviews.
215 00:21:10.750 ⇒ 00:21:13.190 Uttam Kumaran: Very, very strong PM candidate.
216 00:21:13.420 ⇒ 00:21:17.810 Uttam Kumaran: So he’s gonna start part-time with us, and then slowly ramp up.
217 00:21:18.310 ⇒ 00:21:20.890 Uttam Kumaran: what you’re… I think what you’re gonna see is, like.
218 00:21:21.170 ⇒ 00:21:28.269 Uttam Kumaran: We just, like, the delivery, the project management group needs to have principles around how to do this.
219 00:21:28.650 ⇒ 00:21:38.289 Uttam Kumaran: The engineers are never gonna be, like, tasked, and there has to be camaraderie and team. It can’t be like Amber yells at engineer, engineer yells back at PM.
220 00:21:38.730 ⇒ 00:21:43.819 Uttam Kumaran: we’re a team, right? It’s like, I wouldn’t yell at you, dude, I can’t, like, why would I…
221 00:21:44.790 ⇒ 00:21:55.679 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, like, it’s just not, like, I don’t think I want to call up, I’m like, okay, we have to solve this problem. But for some people, look, if I’m getting yelled at, I’m getting, like, why did we mess it up?
222 00:21:55.830 ⇒ 00:21:59.760 Uttam Kumaran: That could be translated, but it’s something that we need to sort of, like.
223 00:22:01.100 ⇒ 00:22:05.170 Uttam Kumaran: You need to have tough conversations about and find a path forward, you know?
224 00:22:06.000 ⇒ 00:22:06.960 Awaish Kumar: Okay, fair.
225 00:22:14.330 ⇒ 00:22:18.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then on feedback for you, I mean, I think one…
226 00:22:20.180 ⇒ 00:22:22.809 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I would like to see you…
227 00:22:22.940 ⇒ 00:22:27.369 Uttam Kumaran: build, like, the data team. I think right now.
228 00:22:27.640 ⇒ 00:22:33.260 Uttam Kumaran: I’m still… and also, like, take a bigger stand on, like, building the engineering team as a whole.
229 00:22:33.870 ⇒ 00:22:41.359 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, I think what I’ve… what I’ve brought to the table is now we have Sam on the AI side, we have Shreya on product analytics.
230 00:22:41.460 ⇒ 00:22:42.790 Uttam Kumaran: We have you.
231 00:22:43.090 ⇒ 00:22:48.619 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re the only one where I’m like, I can sign you up to think about engineering as a whole.
232 00:22:49.180 ⇒ 00:22:57.900 Uttam Kumaran: for me, I’m thinking about how do we set engineering standards, but this is where I think I want to see you take a larger role in helping those two.
233 00:22:58.280 ⇒ 00:23:06.709 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the things that I’m saying to them, I think you know exactly. Like, what are the things we want the AI team to do? What are the things we want product analytics to do?
234 00:23:06.850 ⇒ 00:23:09.579 Uttam Kumaran: I would like to see you step into that, like.
235 00:23:09.790 ⇒ 00:23:19.770 Uttam Kumaran: really, like, leading engineering type of situation. Of course, I think, like, you’re gonna still be the person on data engineering and AE, but
236 00:23:20.180 ⇒ 00:23:25.809 Uttam Kumaran: if we can… if we can get Demulade up to that spot or something, like, I think you can start to…
237 00:23:25.930 ⇒ 00:23:32.639 Uttam Kumaran: lead engineering as a whole, but again, it also depends on, like, how… what you’re interested in. I… you know, when we… when we’ve talked over the…
238 00:23:32.890 ⇒ 00:23:34.440 Uttam Kumaran: time, I think, I’ve…
239 00:23:35.050 ⇒ 00:23:52.629 Uttam Kumaran: heard a lot of your interest in people management, heard a lot of your interest in, sort of, like, nurturing and bringing engineering teams. Of course, I think you’re also interested in working on the toughest problems, which I think, really, the toughest problem is how do we drive AI in the business?
240 00:23:53.840 ⇒ 00:23:54.310 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
241 00:23:54.310 ⇒ 00:23:55.060 Awaish Kumar: Good luck.
242 00:23:55.060 ⇒ 00:23:59.660 Uttam Kumaran: And how do we scale this business without adding way more people?
243 00:24:00.370 ⇒ 00:24:03.400 Uttam Kumaran: If you ask me, that is the toughest problem on my mind.
244 00:24:05.220 ⇒ 00:24:24.609 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re gonna continue to recruit great people, we’re gonna continue to sell, but the AI piece is huge, and I think, like, we could wait 5 years and build a better engineering team, but today I want to build a rock-solid engineering team with camaraderie and expectations and high quality, you know?
245 00:24:24.950 ⇒ 00:24:42.110 Uttam Kumaran: I just can’t… I just can’t do that alone, you know? Like, I can’t be the only one with that expectation of, like, we want to build a great engineering team. And right now, everybody’s looking to me on, like, how to do that, but I think me and you, and more over time, you can start to own
246 00:24:42.280 ⇒ 00:24:45.179 Uttam Kumaran: The engineering part of this business, you know?
247 00:24:46.690 ⇒ 00:25:02.320 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, right. I tried my best to go into the client channels where I’m actually not part of the team, and try to give my feedback. But the problem is still you are the default for anyone
248 00:25:02.510 ⇒ 00:25:06.939 Awaish Kumar: If there’s an issue, like, your tagline, for example, the database thing…
249 00:25:07.530 ⇒ 00:25:10.859 Awaish Kumar: So, I could… I wouldn’t know that they need help, like.
250 00:25:10.860 ⇒ 00:25:24.440 Uttam Kumaran: No, and that’s where I… I made a mistake in that I should have tagged you first. I… I just didn’t realize. But this is also where maybe each week, we talk, and we can look at, am I taking on something that maybe I should pass to you?
251 00:25:24.790 ⇒ 00:25:26.880 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
252 00:25:27.180 ⇒ 00:25:35.809 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy to… I don’t need to go… I don’t want to take that stuff on, you know? I would rather… for me, I gotta go spend the time building the business.
253 00:25:36.050 ⇒ 00:25:40.240 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t be on client work as much. It’s so difficult for me.
254 00:25:41.500 ⇒ 00:25:42.060 Awaish Kumar: Fair.
255 00:25:43.090 ⇒ 00:25:50.750 Awaish Kumar: when I see you, like, being a really… Active in very small things.
256 00:25:50.890 ⇒ 00:25:54.090 Awaish Kumar: Like, for example,
257 00:25:54.980 ⇒ 00:26:10.770 Awaish Kumar: errors, Dexter, ticket, the error for Uber ads, for example. I actually saw that, I know, like, this is something we want to solve, but it was not, like, deal-breaking for a day, right? I said, okay, let’s…
258 00:26:11.330 ⇒ 00:26:12.590 Awaish Kumar: We have spare case.
259 00:26:12.590 ⇒ 00:26:19.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s just because, like, that… I… I… I’ve been seeing air… I’ve been seeing Daxter issues for 3 weeks.
260 00:26:19.340 ⇒ 00:26:34.149 Uttam Kumaran: I said, I can’t see this stuff anymore. I’m gonna fix all this. That’s the thing, because I can’t, like, I can’t let it go, because we’re gonna… we were going into a renewal for that client. Casey couldn’t figure it out. I know Voshdev wasn’t helpful at all.
261 00:26:34.470 ⇒ 00:26:44.120 Uttam Kumaran: I said I fixed it, but this is the thing, I didn’t… I was like, okay, I know that if you had time, you would have fixed it, so then I’m like, okay, maybe I’ll waitress is busy. So then I fixed it, that’s it.
262 00:26:44.390 ⇒ 00:26:50.279 Uttam Kumaran: You know? And that’s not… I didn’t fix all the things, right? This 8x8 thing is a huge problem.
263 00:26:50.500 ⇒ 00:27:00.550 Uttam Kumaran: I have to go do that, but if you’re like, hey, I have opportunity, I would love to hand that to you to go do, and I can review. But we’re the only people on the data engine side, you know?
264 00:27:02.530 ⇒ 00:27:09.390 Awaish Kumar: Okay, but that never, like, I don’t know, that never came to ABC stand-ups, when I was there, like.
265 00:27:09.750 ⇒ 00:27:15.750 Awaish Kumar: Like, nobody was looking at transcript data, and there’s no doubt some tasks,
266 00:27:15.750 ⇒ 00:27:17.769 Uttam Kumaran: Well, no, there is, there is.
267 00:27:18.230 ⇒ 00:27:19.430 Awaish Kumar: No, there was…
268 00:27:19.940 ⇒ 00:27:20.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
269 00:27:21.890 ⇒ 00:27:26.640 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, it might give… I don’t think…
270 00:27:26.640 ⇒ 00:27:31.609 Uttam Kumaran: came into the pipeline. Dude, the pipeline got shipped, it didn’t even work. Like, there’s no data.
271 00:27:31.610 ⇒ 00:27:32.130 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah.
272 00:27:32.130 ⇒ 00:27:38.129 Uttam Kumaran: People… people thought it was done, and then nobody… they were like, where do I get it? Casey was like, I don’t know where it is, ask.
273 00:27:38.240 ⇒ 00:27:41.120 Uttam Kumaran: So-and-so, we didn’t hear back, so then it was in limbo.
274 00:27:41.380 ⇒ 00:27:42.290 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
275 00:27:42.950 ⇒ 00:27:45.240 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I understand, I understand, I agree.
276 00:27:46.380 ⇒ 00:27:47.780 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, thank you.
277 00:27:47.780 ⇒ 00:27:48.300 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, but you tell.
278 00:27:48.300 ⇒ 00:27:49.100 Awaish Kumar: I know, I hear…
279 00:27:49.100 ⇒ 00:28:00.140 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to get involved in the small things. So if you think the better option for me is when I’m about to get involved, to just say that, if you think I should do that, I’ll do that.
280 00:28:00.880 ⇒ 00:28:04.759 Awaish Kumar: So, like, there are two things. Number one, I…
281 00:28:05.030 ⇒ 00:28:09.900 Awaish Kumar: like, for example, Hubernet session, expiry thing, right?
282 00:28:10.120 ⇒ 00:28:19.069 Awaish Kumar: I know I have, like, 3, 4 ways to handle that. I wrote in my comment, I can go in and do that, but I…
283 00:28:19.170 ⇒ 00:28:24.809 Awaish Kumar: But I want the team to be able to resolve that. I’m not sure, like.
284 00:28:25.030 ⇒ 00:28:30.529 Awaish Kumar: So when I see that, like, URTech working on that thing, so it’s also a…
285 00:28:30.850 ⇒ 00:28:37.369 Awaish Kumar: question for me, like, okay, should I have done that? Because, like, if you’re giving your time, it’s better I will do that.
286 00:28:38.450 ⇒ 00:28:46.529 Uttam Kumaran: No, 100%. That’s a great way of thinking about it. I should not have done that. I don’t want to fix it, but it was failing so much that
287 00:28:46.870 ⇒ 00:28:51.170 Uttam Kumaran: And I didn’t see a path forward, but in that moment.
288 00:28:51.310 ⇒ 00:28:58.409 Uttam Kumaran: I can tell you that from now on, I will ping you, and I’ll say, do you want to take this? And you can take a stab at it.
289 00:28:58.610 ⇒ 00:29:01.580 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy to do that. I… dude, but I did the whole thing with Cursor.
290 00:29:01.820 ⇒ 00:29:07.839 Uttam Kumaran: I just kept copying the logs in there, and I dripped the whole thing… like, it wasn’t, like, that much, but…
291 00:29:07.990 ⇒ 00:29:12.549 Uttam Kumaran: The… the biggest thing that’s there right now is, like, this transcript pipeline.
292 00:29:12.980 ⇒ 00:29:14.819 Uttam Kumaran: I have to go figure out how to write that.
293 00:29:15.020 ⇒ 00:29:17.580 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t… I… like, it’s gonna take me probably…
294 00:29:17.770 ⇒ 00:29:23.610 Uttam Kumaran: 3-4 hours to go do that. So that’s a clear area where I need help immediately.
295 00:29:23.760 ⇒ 00:29:33.730 Uttam Kumaran: if I just… if I write the ticket for you, maybe I can hand that to you, and that way we can pair on that way. I still want to review all the data and stuff, because I think we’re the only people that could do that, you know?
296 00:29:33.730 ⇒ 00:29:37.519 Awaish Kumar: I already… I already have a context about transcript, or…
297 00:29:39.070 ⇒ 00:29:39.560 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
298 00:29:39.560 ⇒ 00:29:42.009 Awaish Kumar: I can take over if you would want, and
299 00:29:43.400 ⇒ 00:29:52.479 Awaish Kumar: I just wanted the watchdiv to do that, but then, like, he was… we kept out of office, then things like that. Yeah.
300 00:29:52.480 ⇒ 00:29:53.600 Uttam Kumaran: It’s okay, that’s whatever.
301 00:29:53.600 ⇒ 00:29:54.310 Awaish Kumar: I’m pretty… yeah.
302 00:29:54.310 ⇒ 00:29:56.759 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t worry about that, we’ll move beyond that, that’s fine.
303 00:30:01.970 ⇒ 00:30:07.840 Uttam Kumaran: So, okay, so then let me… let me think of it that way. Anytime that I have… I’m dealing with these issues.
304 00:30:08.660 ⇒ 00:30:12.110 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll bring it up, and you can tell me. I’ll let you approve.
305 00:30:12.230 ⇒ 00:30:14.270 Uttam Kumaran: Before I do it. I’m happy to do that.
306 00:30:14.760 ⇒ 00:30:15.330 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
307 00:30:15.530 ⇒ 00:30:17.110 Awaish Kumar: I just want to…
308 00:30:17.110 ⇒ 00:30:29.330 Uttam Kumaran: Because, dude, I want to go… I need to go work… I wanna go work on our internal reporting pipelines, and the stuff for the business, because nobody… like, that is not client-facing, that’s building the business.
309 00:30:29.470 ⇒ 00:30:33.650 Uttam Kumaran: That’s all the internal clockify, internal pipelines, stuff like that.
310 00:30:33.780 ⇒ 00:30:38.290 Uttam Kumaran: So I think the two biggest things, and this is one of the OKRs, is also on data quality.
311 00:30:38.530 ⇒ 00:30:45.200 Uttam Kumaran: I really want to start measuring the amount of data problems we’re having across clients.
312 00:30:45.480 ⇒ 00:30:48.810 Uttam Kumaran: data and AI props. Just roughly, like, bugs.
313 00:30:49.160 ⇒ 00:30:53.469 Uttam Kumaran: And starting to look at how are we mitigating those over time, you know?
314 00:30:53.810 ⇒ 00:31:02.189 Uttam Kumaran: Whether we do that by every time a bug happens, we create a linear ticket with the bug label, whether it’s as a metaplane event.
315 00:31:02.850 ⇒ 00:31:05.409 Uttam Kumaran: Somehow, we need to start to measure.
316 00:31:06.070 ⇒ 00:31:07.350 Uttam Kumaran: data issues.
317 00:31:07.530 ⇒ 00:31:15.479 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I… I’m gonna have this data about, kind of, labor time for you guys.
318 00:31:16.590 ⇒ 00:31:17.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
319 00:31:17.540 ⇒ 00:31:19.700 Uttam Kumaran: But we can work on that together, again, like…
320 00:31:20.380 ⇒ 00:31:29.000 Uttam Kumaran: anything on the data engineering side, just, like, work with me on… I will… we’ll both brainstorm the ideas, but you are 100% right, like.
321 00:31:29.470 ⇒ 00:31:33.879 Uttam Kumaran: I love working on these problems, but I cannot do that. Like, I cannot be doing that.
322 00:31:34.360 ⇒ 00:31:40.439 Uttam Kumaran: With my time. You know, so it would be amazing to have help. I just don’t want to, like.
323 00:31:40.930 ⇒ 00:31:47.580 Uttam Kumaran: pile that all on you, but if you’re like, hey, at least run it by me first, I’ll… like, let’s do that.
324 00:31:49.350 ⇒ 00:31:50.040 Awaish Kumar: Correct me.
325 00:31:50.630 ⇒ 00:31:51.370 Awaish Kumar: Nate, there’s.
326 00:31:51.370 ⇒ 00:31:54.400 Uttam Kumaran: Why don’t… why don’t I… is there already a data…
327 00:31:54.710 ⇒ 00:31:57.510 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, like, I could just use the data team channel
328 00:31:58.030 ⇒ 00:31:59.630 Uttam Kumaran: And I’ll just talk to you there.
329 00:32:03.280 ⇒ 00:32:05.509 Awaish Kumar: Sorry, we already have Data Team Channel here.
330 00:32:05.660 ⇒ 00:32:09.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll just use that instead of creating, like, a data engineering channel or something.
331 00:32:09.590 ⇒ 00:32:10.480 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
332 00:32:11.030 ⇒ 00:32:11.740 Awaish Kumar: Sure.
333 00:32:12.290 ⇒ 00:32:13.870 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, so I like…
334 00:32:14.120 ⇒ 00:32:18.469 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, it was… this was, like, kind of a question, like, I was asking you, like.
335 00:32:18.970 ⇒ 00:32:21.730 Awaish Kumar: Like, if these things come…
336 00:32:22.970 ⇒ 00:32:26.800 Awaish Kumar: the error scam, like, I try to tag people,
337 00:32:27.370 ⇒ 00:32:29.640 Awaish Kumar: The watch will be… will be the next…
338 00:32:29.750 ⇒ 00:32:35.510 Awaish Kumar: part of, like, line of action there? Like, should I still push To the team to handle.
339 00:32:35.510 ⇒ 00:32:40.570 Uttam Kumaran: You have to have an SLA, so you… the SLA… we have to have SLA, and the SLA has to be hit.
340 00:32:41.020 ⇒ 00:32:46.160 Uttam Kumaran: So, either the team tries, or We Fitz.
341 00:32:46.920 ⇒ 00:32:50.029 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Right? So you have to be mindful of, like.
342 00:32:50.270 ⇒ 00:32:59.179 Uttam Kumaran: is this something that I would want to use as a teaching moment? Like, hey, let’s pair on this, and let’s try to fix it together? Or…
343 00:32:59.490 ⇒ 00:33:02.109 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll just… let me just fix it, it’s too urgent.
344 00:33:02.770 ⇒ 00:33:11.779 Uttam Kumaran: Try to do the first one as much as you can. Anytime you’re fixing something, bring Casey, bring Mustafa, bring Demolade along.
345 00:33:12.290 ⇒ 00:33:15.190 Uttam Kumaran: Bring Sam along, fix it together.
346 00:33:15.550 ⇒ 00:33:17.829 Uttam Kumaran: Sometimes you will not get the luxury.
347 00:33:19.090 ⇒ 00:33:25.949 Uttam Kumaran: Right? But try as much as possible to pair with someone and coach them on how to fix it, ideally using cursor.
348 00:33:26.760 ⇒ 00:33:27.400 Uttam Kumaran: You know?
349 00:33:27.400 ⇒ 00:33:28.070 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
350 00:33:30.750 ⇒ 00:33:32.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s my suggestion.
351 00:33:33.650 ⇒ 00:33:44.209 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where, again, like, I… and then I want to see, because I want to see the glue start to be built. Right now, I am still the glue in a lot of teams.
352 00:33:44.450 ⇒ 00:33:47.649 Uttam Kumaran: And I want us… the engineering team is the biggest team.
353 00:33:47.810 ⇒ 00:33:56.630 Uttam Kumaran: I want to start to see the glue get built. And I think you’re probably the most enabled person right now to do that. Sam is doing that within
354 00:33:57.200 ⇒ 00:33:58.440 Uttam Kumaran: AI?
355 00:33:58.620 ⇒ 00:34:02.750 Uttam Kumaran: I think Shreya will start to do that within product analytics.
356 00:34:02.910 ⇒ 00:34:12.709 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I think you’re the person on the whole data team and the whole engineering team to start to bring people together. You can say, hey, we want to meet as an engineering team, just talk, and, like, whatever, but, like.
357 00:34:12.989 ⇒ 00:34:23.099 Uttam Kumaran: try… go spend… try to build these relationships with folks. Like, that glue is gonna solve your communication problem, I’m telling you. If people know you and trust you.
358 00:34:23.480 ⇒ 00:34:40.980 Uttam Kumaran: and they know it’s coming from a good place, it will start to break down these, like, awkwardness, right? That’s the thing, you know me, because I know everybody, so when I ask for something, you don’t treat… I’m not a stranger, so I’m like… but we have… you have to have that relationship first.
359 00:34:41.179 ⇒ 00:34:42.900 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And that takes time.
360 00:34:43.280 ⇒ 00:34:53.489 Uttam Kumaran: That way, when something does happen, there’s an issue, there’s trust there. It’s not like a boss to engineer. It’s like a me and you are here trying to fix this, you know?
361 00:34:53.590 ⇒ 00:34:56.009 Uttam Kumaran: But it takes time, and you can’t…
362 00:34:56.120 ⇒ 00:34:58.680 Uttam Kumaran: You can’t bill that right when you need it.
363 00:34:59.090 ⇒ 00:35:04.129 Uttam Kumaran: You have to build a relationship every week, every day, one step at a time.
364 00:35:04.280 ⇒ 00:35:16.920 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So call people, do the same thing that I do. Ask them, like, what their goals are, what are some issues they’re facing, how you can help, like, what… maybe if, hey, if I could… if I could tell the company leadership anything.
365 00:35:16.970 ⇒ 00:35:24.569 Uttam Kumaran: what is one thing you could share? Make people feel that heard, and do that with everybody. I’m telling you, you’ll find that, like.
366 00:35:25.230 ⇒ 00:35:30.039 Uttam Kumaran: That glue will really help every single situation will get helped by that.
367 00:35:30.930 ⇒ 00:35:35.750 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, actually, I started that last week when I said about coffee chairs.
368 00:35:35.960 ⇒ 00:35:38.319 Awaish Kumar: I started having a meeting with Amber.
369 00:35:38.910 ⇒ 00:35:39.600 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
370 00:35:39.800 ⇒ 00:35:41.510 Awaish Kumar: Trian had died.
371 00:35:41.620 ⇒ 00:35:44.480 Awaish Kumar: Try to go, like, that’s all, like.
372 00:35:44.680 ⇒ 00:35:47.169 Awaish Kumar: All the teams have played votes.
373 00:35:47.810 ⇒ 00:35:57.289 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I also… I was gonna ask you about, like, did you send an example coffee chat, like, application? I was gonna send it to Rico.
374 00:35:58.120 ⇒ 00:36:02.329 Awaish Kumar: Actually, I did send in the Zoom, but I will find out who sent again.
375 00:36:02.820 ⇒ 00:36:03.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
376 00:36:03.190 ⇒ 00:36:07.019 Awaish Kumar: Because I saw the pricing. How many people here are here?
377 00:36:07.340 ⇒ 00:36:08.690 Awaish Kumar: 10, 15…
378 00:36:08.860 ⇒ 00:36:09.990 Uttam Kumaran: 15?
379 00:36:10.520 ⇒ 00:36:16.840 Awaish Kumar: It was, like, for under 25 people, it was, like, $20 per… Per month.
380 00:36:17.690 ⇒ 00:36:18.870 Awaish Kumar: to move NWG.
381 00:36:18.870 ⇒ 00:36:21.740 Uttam Kumaran: Just send me that one, because I want to give him some examples.
382 00:36:21.920 ⇒ 00:36:23.969 Awaish Kumar: He’ll try a couple of them, and then…
383 00:36:25.210 ⇒ 00:36:25.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
384 00:36:25.950 ⇒ 00:36:26.500 Awaish Kumar: No.
385 00:36:26.810 ⇒ 00:36:28.020 Awaish Kumar: Okay, action.
386 00:36:36.890 ⇒ 00:36:47.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then, dude, we need to… I think we should start to have… well, one, I’m gonna get you Justin. Two, second thing is, let me know about Tableau. I’m gonna call Henry later today.
387 00:36:47.890 ⇒ 00:36:50.249 Uttam Kumaran: But let me know if we need a Tableau person.
388 00:36:50.780 ⇒ 00:36:53.159 Uttam Kumaran: Third is,
389 00:36:54.530 ⇒ 00:37:01.089 Uttam Kumaran: we need to start to think about how we build a glue within the engineering team, and then fourth is AI.
390 00:37:01.320 ⇒ 00:37:20.950 Uttam Kumaran: keep pushing on how we use AI for as much stuff as possible, like cursor… I’m gonna start to do… but this is the thing, if I can get out of the day-to-day work, I’m gonna go start building our cursor rules, SOPs for how to use Cursor, like, I’ll start working on that stuff for you. And then you can start to disseminate that out to the team.
391 00:37:22.090 ⇒ 00:37:23.539 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, sure.
392 00:37:24.900 ⇒ 00:37:28.049 Uttam Kumaran: And spend some time with Sam also, dude, Sam’s really, really good.
393 00:37:29.390 ⇒ 00:37:31.900 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I haven’t met everybody.
394 00:37:32.980 ⇒ 00:37:36.939 Awaish Kumar: two, three times, but yeah, I will try to be… meet once a week to every…
395 00:37:37.320 ⇒ 00:37:44.739 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, this is the thing, for me, I’m… I’m telling… it’s just so painful, because I can’t… I would love to meet with everybody once a week.
396 00:37:45.070 ⇒ 00:37:49.290 Uttam Kumaran: I… I have maybe 3 hours of free time per day.
397 00:37:50.440 ⇒ 00:37:55.739 Uttam Kumaran: And then, guess what? I then have to add 5 more hours after work. Like, so I work until, like.
398 00:37:55.970 ⇒ 00:38:14.320 Uttam Kumaran: So, I just really just do not have the time. It’s so painful. One day I will, but I need the leadership in the company to continue to build that glue. I’ll give the same feedback to Amber, but I want to make sure that you guys are meeting with your folks. Try, if you can… if you can’t do one weekly, do every other week.
399 00:38:14.520 ⇒ 00:38:31.839 Uttam Kumaran: just try to talk to people and listen. That’s it. Don’t come in with any agenda. I know we had the monthly delivery review, but all of that is a way, because we don’t… we’re not building trust. So we have to go do those things, where we measure, like, slack tickets and stuff like that. I don’t want to do that. I want everyone to succeed here.
400 00:38:32.010 ⇒ 00:38:36.480 Uttam Kumaran: Like, we don’t have to be that formal, but it takes just, like.
401 00:38:36.640 ⇒ 00:38:39.650 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, let’s just chat, whatever it is, you know?
402 00:38:39.650 ⇒ 00:38:40.370 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
403 00:38:40.570 ⇒ 00:38:44.000 Awaish Kumar: Just try to do that, don’t have an agenda, don’t overthink it.
404 00:38:44.030 ⇒ 00:38:45.870 Uttam Kumaran: You know, build the relationships.
405 00:38:47.490 ⇒ 00:38:48.870 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, sure.
406 00:38:49.330 ⇒ 00:38:58.190 Awaish Kumar: Also, like, what are the plans for AE? Like, we only have, kind of, Undamilade?
407 00:38:58.700 ⇒ 00:38:59.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
408 00:38:59.560 ⇒ 00:39:01.470 Awaish Kumar: On the east, AE cycle.
409 00:39:02.160 ⇒ 00:39:03.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so…
410 00:39:06.740 ⇒ 00:39:12.149 Uttam Kumaran: It’s sort of gonna depend, we don’t have immediate…
411 00:39:12.440 ⇒ 00:39:15.720 Uttam Kumaran: like, pressing need for AE, but…
412 00:39:16.040 ⇒ 00:39:19.690 Uttam Kumaran: Like, the moment we get another client, we’ll have to go get one.
413 00:39:20.130 ⇒ 00:39:24.210 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, I have to get this PM hire closed.
414 00:39:24.810 ⇒ 00:39:29.950 Uttam Kumaran: And then I want to get, sort of, a floating data engineer and a floating Tableau person.
415 00:39:30.630 ⇒ 00:39:33.779 Uttam Kumaran: because me, you, and Demolade can do AE stuff.
416 00:39:35.260 ⇒ 00:39:39.490 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not top of mind, because we’re… we’re all… three of us are really good, you know?
417 00:39:40.600 ⇒ 00:39:42.279 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, alright.
418 00:39:46.050 ⇒ 00:39:51.629 Uttam Kumaran: I would like to get a junior AE and put them under Demolade and stuff like that, but we just can’t… we just…
419 00:39:51.850 ⇒ 00:39:53.500 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t have the budget right now.
420 00:39:54.810 ⇒ 00:39:59.949 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, we don’t have a need right now, I’m just… Like, we only have a…
421 00:40:00.190 ⇒ 00:40:06.679 Awaish Kumar: Now, like, otherwise, without agreement, maybe, like.
422 00:40:07.090 ⇒ 00:40:09.429 Awaish Kumar: I’m working full-time as an AE.
423 00:40:09.580 ⇒ 00:40:10.620 Awaish Kumar: So…
424 00:40:11.110 ⇒ 00:40:13.559 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I mean, yeah, I mean, we’re not, like…
425 00:40:13.730 ⇒ 00:40:18.399 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, nobody can go anywhere, is that what I’m saying? But…
426 00:40:18.920 ⇒ 00:40:24.640 Uttam Kumaran: it’s gonna be… I’m still gonna have to put in probably 10 hours of AE work for now. But that’s fine, like…
427 00:40:24.980 ⇒ 00:40:26.060 Uttam Kumaran: Fine.
428 00:40:26.790 ⇒ 00:40:33.420 Awaish Kumar: And for… like… On the plans, like, before.
429 00:40:33.420 ⇒ 00:40:40.279 Uttam Kumaran: Just to give you a sense of, like, I would rather spend 10 hours AE, save another 5 grand, use it to get an analyst.
430 00:40:41.800 ⇒ 00:40:43.600 Awaish Kumar: Okay. That’s the math for me.
431 00:40:45.720 ⇒ 00:40:46.250 Uttam Kumaran: Right.
432 00:40:46.250 ⇒ 00:40:47.469 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, okay.
433 00:40:47.690 ⇒ 00:40:50.270 Awaish Kumar: So, another question is about, like.
434 00:40:50.680 ⇒ 00:40:56.340 Awaish Kumar: About, like, the clients, like, default, where we were saying, like, we are gonna grow to…
435 00:40:56.940 ⇒ 00:41:02.269 Awaish Kumar: Like, we haven’t done any DE or any work for them yet, so just for product analytics.
436 00:41:03.010 ⇒ 00:41:04.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re… well, we…
437 00:41:05.880 ⇒ 00:41:14.780 Uttam Kumaran: we… Shreya is gonna start to… to set what the analytics goals are, and then that’ll result in DE&A work.
438 00:41:16.440 ⇒ 00:41:18.980 Uttam Kumaran: But I think she may be able to do it herself, you know?
439 00:41:21.290 ⇒ 00:41:28.510 Awaish Kumar: Okay, well, first… first part will be, like, implementing those in those Mixed completely true.mixPanel.
440 00:41:28.870 ⇒ 00:41:31.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so Henry’s handling that right now.
441 00:41:31.940 ⇒ 00:41:32.640 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
442 00:41:33.750 ⇒ 00:41:34.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
443 00:41:36.120 ⇒ 00:41:36.470 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
444 00:41:36.470 ⇒ 00:41:43.409 Uttam Kumaran: So we can chat… I think we can chat in our EMG Leagues meeting next week, on Monday, and talk about…
445 00:41:43.890 ⇒ 00:41:49.710 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, we should talk about that client, for sure.
446 00:41:50.980 ⇒ 00:41:52.550 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yep, Joe.
447 00:41:55.320 ⇒ 00:41:56.250 Awaish Kumar: Alright.
448 00:41:59.280 ⇒ 00:42:05.849 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. I think we should talk again, maybe on Monday or Tuesday, so call me again,
449 00:42:06.580 ⇒ 00:42:08.210 Uttam Kumaran: Overall, I feel good.
450 00:42:08.640 ⇒ 00:42:13.139 Uttam Kumaran: I feel good that we shed some weight, but, like, we’re still working hard.
451 00:42:13.750 ⇒ 00:42:21.440 Uttam Kumaran: We’re signing more clients, which is really, really great. So, like, business is still doing well.
452 00:42:21.910 ⇒ 00:42:24.899 Uttam Kumaran: Do you know CES, by the way, the tech conference?
453 00:42:26.780 ⇒ 00:42:29.920 Awaish Kumar: Actually, I’ve seen some advertisement built.
454 00:42:30.780 ⇒ 00:42:33.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so we’re… we’re talking to them for data work.
455 00:42:34.440 ⇒ 00:42:35.650 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
456 00:42:35.860 ⇒ 00:42:38.210 Uttam Kumaran: You know, do you know cognition?
457 00:42:40.510 ⇒ 00:42:41.979 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you know windsurf?
458 00:42:42.550 ⇒ 00:42:43.620 Awaish Kumar: Yep, yep.
459 00:42:43.780 ⇒ 00:42:46.180 Uttam Kumaran: We’re talking to them, also.
460 00:42:46.660 ⇒ 00:42:47.180 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
461 00:42:47.240 ⇒ 00:42:50.549 Uttam Kumaran: So we have a lot of people that are in pipeline right now.
462 00:42:50.710 ⇒ 00:42:51.640 Uttam Kumaran: So…
463 00:42:52.140 ⇒ 00:42:54.433 Awaish Kumar: Okay, he’s like… I’m like.
464 00:42:54.880 ⇒ 00:42:55.430 Uttam Kumaran: Quickly.
465 00:42:55.960 ⇒ 00:42:57.329 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know, right?
466 00:42:57.330 ⇒ 00:42:58.390 Uttam Kumaran: For data and AI work.
467 00:42:58.720 ⇒ 00:43:01.350 Awaish Kumar: What, what about our percentage? Is it,
468 00:43:02.430 ⇒ 00:43:05.000 Awaish Kumar: Like, gonna grow to be hidden, or…
469 00:43:05.920 ⇒ 00:43:14.699 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, the next contract, this is where, like, we just have to get through this next 2 months with them, and then I’m gonna try to get them towards 20K, possible, so let’s see.
470 00:43:15.210 ⇒ 00:43:18.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
471 00:43:20.280 ⇒ 00:43:24.300 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, we need, like, at least 3-4 kid in size stripes.
472 00:43:25.030 ⇒ 00:43:26.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
473 00:43:30.610 ⇒ 00:43:32.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we need a couple more eat-ins, for sure.
474 00:43:36.670 ⇒ 00:43:43.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. My only other question is, dude, I wanna get you, like, A monitor, and
475 00:43:44.070 ⇒ 00:43:45.849 Uttam Kumaran: Like, webcam or mic.
476 00:43:46.090 ⇒ 00:43:51.429 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, do you have, like, do you have… is there any Amazon equivalent there, or, like, where can you go buy equipment?
477 00:43:53.900 ⇒ 00:43:56.509 Awaish Kumar: Saddleboard, the market, I do that.
478 00:43:57.010 ⇒ 00:44:08.430 Awaish Kumar: There are some… like, websites, like, it’s called Garaz, which is, like, China’s AliExpresses… sister company.
479 00:44:08.790 ⇒ 00:44:12.129 Awaish Kumar: But, yeah, they don’t have good enough, equipment.
480 00:44:12.460 ⇒ 00:44:16.550 Uttam Kumaran: Do you wanna go tell me, like, prices for stuff?
481 00:44:18.090 ⇒ 00:44:20.309 Uttam Kumaran: Because right now, you’re just on your laptop, right?
482 00:44:20.740 ⇒ 00:44:21.600 Awaish Kumar: Oh, yes.
483 00:44:22.070 ⇒ 00:44:28.050 Uttam Kumaran: So I want to get you monitor… And then you’ll need keyboard, And then…
484 00:44:28.760 ⇒ 00:44:33.290 Uttam Kumaran: And then ideally, webcam, and then if you want a mic… if you want a headset, I can get you that as well.
485 00:44:33.650 ⇒ 00:44:37.880 Uttam Kumaran: But I want to make sure you’re set up, like, Desktop-wise.
486 00:44:39.500 ⇒ 00:44:44.849 Awaish Kumar: Okay, here, sure, Nate, I… I can give you the estimation.
487 00:44:45.440 ⇒ 00:44:46.920 Uttam Kumaran: Just tell me how much it is.
488 00:44:47.300 ⇒ 00:44:47.980 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
489 00:44:48.490 ⇒ 00:44:51.789 Uttam Kumaran: Don’t get a… don’t get, like, a cheap monitor, like…
490 00:44:51.940 ⇒ 00:44:56.080 Uttam Kumaran: Get something that we can use for a while. Aye.
491 00:44:56.450 ⇒ 00:45:02.590 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and then, ideally, webcam, something that’s 1080p, get something like that. Just… just…
492 00:45:02.730 ⇒ 00:45:11.869 Uttam Kumaran: send me a picture, or send me how much it’s gonna cost, and then I’ll give you the thumbs up, and then we can expense it to the company. Like, you can submit the receipt, and then, yeah.
493 00:45:12.650 ⇒ 00:45:14.070 Awaish Kumar: Hey, come, truck.
494 00:45:16.260 ⇒ 00:45:17.920 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Alright, dude.
495 00:45:18.500 ⇒ 00:45:19.769 Awaish Kumar: Alright, thank you.
496 00:45:20.120 ⇒ 00:45:20.799 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, talk to you soon.
497 00:45:20.800 ⇒ 00:45:24.210 Awaish Kumar: So for the next week, you wanted me to have one-on-one with you?
498 00:45:25.370 ⇒ 00:45:27.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let’s talk again maybe Tuesday.
499 00:45:27.960 ⇒ 00:45:29.179 Awaish Kumar: Okay, sure.
500 00:45:29.520 ⇒ 00:45:30.929 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, perfect.
501 00:45:31.410 ⇒ 00:45:33.830 Uttam Kumaran: Alright, thank you. Bye.