Meeting Title: Brainforge Interview: Uttam & Alex <> Syed Date: 2025-09-04 Meeting participants: Syed, Alexander Lubka, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:03:13.080 ⇒ 00:03:13.690 Syed: Yeah, like…
2 00:03:13.690 ⇒ 00:03:14.589 Alexander Lubka: Diana, how are you.
3 00:03:14.730 ⇒ 00:03:16.389 Syed: Not too bad. Yourself?
4 00:03:17.390 ⇒ 00:03:20.209 Alexander Lubka: Oop, hold on, can’t hear ya.
5 00:03:20.530 ⇒ 00:03:21.540 Alexander Lubka: Can you hear me?
6 00:03:21.540 ⇒ 00:03:22.539 Syed: Yeah, I can hear you.
7 00:03:22.540 ⇒ 00:03:24.379 Alexander Lubka: I can hear you now. How are you?
8 00:03:24.380 ⇒ 00:03:25.769 Syed: Not too bad. Yourself?
9 00:03:25.770 ⇒ 00:03:29.089 Alexander Lubka: Doing well, thanks. You were, just on some vacation?
10 00:03:29.650 ⇒ 00:03:33.380 Syed: Yes, I was. I was in Europe for a little bit.
11 00:03:33.640 ⇒ 00:03:35.360 Alexander Lubka: Oh, nice, I was too, where were you?
12 00:03:35.740 ⇒ 00:03:44.119 Syed: So, I went… I did a couple of things, right? So, I started off in Germany, then went through Switzerland to France, and then I came back home. Yeah, I don’t know, where were you?
13 00:03:44.380 ⇒ 00:03:46.940 Alexander Lubka: I was in Stockholm, Spain, and France.
14 00:03:46.940 ⇒ 00:03:47.770 Syed: Nice.
15 00:03:48.040 ⇒ 00:03:48.970 Alexander Lubka: in France for you.
16 00:03:49.410 ⇒ 00:03:55.550 Syed: Paris, like, very touristy stuff, right? So, yeah, I was in Paris for a little bit, but Switzerland was where I…
17 00:03:55.670 ⇒ 00:04:01.120 Syed: spent most of my time, like, I think I did, like, 4 nights in Switzerland, so… that was a lot of fun.
18 00:04:01.570 ⇒ 00:04:02.349 Alexander Lubka: That’s great.
19 00:04:02.350 ⇒ 00:04:02.960 Syed: men.
20 00:04:03.370 ⇒ 00:04:07.050 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, I’ve never been to Switzerland, but… gotta put on the… should I put on the list?
21 00:04:07.360 ⇒ 00:04:22.480 Syed: Oh, absolutely freaking-lutely. Like, I mean, A, if you love skiing, then yeah, absolutely, right? But even in the summer, like… I mean, I knew it was beautiful, I just didn’t realize it was that beautiful. Like, it was just ridiculous, like, some of those sites are just, like…
22 00:04:22.480 ⇒ 00:04:29.269 Syed: It literally looks like when I’m… when I just… I was just, going through some pictures for my daughter, because they needed something for school.
23 00:04:29.740 ⇒ 00:04:37.039 Syed: I was like, yo, some of these things, like, look like actual, like, paintings or wallpaper, like, it’s just, like, just ridiculous.
24 00:04:37.930 ⇒ 00:04:42.950 Alexander Lubka: That’s insane. I felt like that in Iceland when I was there a couple years ago. You’re just, like, driving around, and you see this, like.
25 00:04:43.080 ⇒ 00:04:47.510 Alexander Lubka: waterfalls, or… Exactly, that’s exactly what it was, yeah, exactly what happened.
26 00:04:47.640 ⇒ 00:04:50.310 Alexander Lubka: That’s so cool. I got a… alright, deal, it’s on the list.
27 00:04:50.310 ⇒ 00:04:56.019 Syed: Yeah, I think it has to be for everybody, for at least, once in their lifetime, right? So…
28 00:04:56.020 ⇒ 00:04:57.930 Alexander Lubka: Yeah. Uptama, have you been to Switzerland?
29 00:04:59.500 ⇒ 00:05:00.320 Uttam Kumaran: Now…
30 00:05:00.370 ⇒ 00:05:13.120 Syed: My friend is Swiss, and he’s, like, obsessed with going there. He goes there, like, twice, twice a year, and it’s… it’s really nice, but it’s… it looks, like, so expensive. Like, I don’t know. I’m not sure what group…
31 00:05:13.580 ⇒ 00:05:18.099 Syed: Yeah, I can’t afford… I can’t afford my mortgage for the next 2 months, for sure, but…
32 00:05:18.100 ⇒ 00:05:19.620 Uttam Kumaran: But like.
33 00:05:19.620 ⇒ 00:05:35.259 Syed: Yeah, it is expensive. It is, it is expensive. And rightfully so, right? Like, granted, they have other modes of revenue, but tourism is, like, number one, so everything is, like, 2X, 3X. I think I literally, at one point, when I, like, one of the, like.
34 00:05:35.410 ⇒ 00:05:43.560 Syed: when I was done with it was, like, when I had to pay, like, 25 bucks for my daughter’s nuggets and fries. I was like, this is ridiculous. No nuggets and fries are worth $25.
35 00:05:43.560 ⇒ 00:05:48.310 Uttam Kumaran: all the Swiss… all the Swiss bank accounts, like, they can take advantage of that and lower the…
36 00:05:48.740 ⇒ 00:05:51.580 Uttam Kumaran: Lower the cost of living a little bit.
37 00:05:51.580 ⇒ 00:05:52.440 Syed: Yeah.
38 00:05:53.080 ⇒ 00:06:00.269 Syed: But yeah, but, like, I mean, in conclusion, right, like, I think it’s, like, one of, like, one of my better trips, just from, like,
39 00:06:00.360 ⇒ 00:06:17.229 Syed: aesthetic point of view, right? Like, I don’t ski, I don’t do anything, and so I would probably never go back in the winter. But, like, if I get a chance to go back again in the summer, I’ll definitely do that. It just… it felt like I was, like, in a whole different world, so to speak. It’s so beautiful.
40 00:06:17.230 ⇒ 00:06:18.730 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice. Who tell me.
41 00:06:18.730 ⇒ 00:06:21.529 Alexander Lubka: heard it here first, next summer, Bring Forge on Seitzman.
42 00:06:21.530 ⇒ 00:06:25.479 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I know. I would like to just do an on-site here in Austin, you know.
43 00:06:25.480 ⇒ 00:06:42.330 Uttam Kumaran: I couldn’t afford that. But sorry, I was… sorry for being a little bit late. I was… I’m at this coffee shop where I usually work part of the week, and some car outside was, like, on fire next to where I was sitting, and I had to scramble and get inside, so… sorry about that.
44 00:06:44.860 ⇒ 00:06:45.920 Alexander Lubka: Understandable.
45 00:06:45.920 ⇒ 00:06:46.460 Uttam Kumaran: Absolutely.
46 00:06:46.460 ⇒ 00:06:48.600 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, I think something’s going around. Yesterday on our bus back from.
47 00:06:48.600 ⇒ 00:06:49.100 Uttam Kumaran: Chris.
48 00:06:49.100 ⇒ 00:06:51.370 Alexander Lubka: It got sideswiped in the city, so…
49 00:06:52.210 ⇒ 00:06:53.280 Uttam Kumaran: Do they stop?
50 00:06:53.280 ⇒ 00:06:53.760 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, they stopped
51 00:06:54.160 ⇒ 00:07:03.909 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, so, Syed, I work at a hedge fund, and we, I work… I live in New York City, so we take a bus, they have a bus back, and are you… you’re in New Jersey, right?
52 00:07:03.910 ⇒ 00:07:04.839 Syed: I’m in Jersey, yeah, yeah.
53 00:07:04.840 ⇒ 00:07:09.630 Alexander Lubka: Okay, please, so I don’t tell you. But yeah, we got sideswiped on 2nd Ave between, like.
54 00:07:09.980 ⇒ 00:07:22.109 Alexander Lubka: I think it was, like, 90th and 89th or something, and so, I usually get off at 65th Street, and so I walk… I ended up just walking all the way down from, like, 89th Street, to 66, but yeah, I guess it’s happening to everybody.
55 00:07:22.310 ⇒ 00:07:27.690 Syed: If there’s nothing going on in the city, like, you know, there’s something wrong. There has to be something going on, like.
56 00:07:27.690 ⇒ 00:07:28.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
57 00:07:28.680 ⇒ 00:07:29.600 Syed: Fire, we don’t
58 00:07:30.130 ⇒ 00:07:34.749 Syed: Like, I remember last summer, like, I was going into Amazon’s office, like, 3 days a week.
59 00:07:34.750 ⇒ 00:07:35.220 Alexander Lubka: Yeah.
60 00:07:35.220 ⇒ 00:07:47.789 Syed: And I don’t think I can easily say, like, I probably didn’t make it to work on time, like, 70% of the time because of the train. Like, it was… a train was always on fire. I think it was, like, really hot last year or something, and for some reason, our infrastructure is.
61 00:07:47.790 ⇒ 00:07:53.549 Uttam Kumaran: It’s on fire, or it’s flooded. Yeah. Yeah, or someone got pushed, or the power went out.
62 00:07:53.550 ⇒ 00:07:54.250 Syed: Yes, that’s true.
63 00:07:54.250 ⇒ 00:07:54.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
64 00:07:54.830 ⇒ 00:08:03.690 Syed: And then, yeah, but anyways, like, you know, like, half the people are taking calls from the train, and we’ll just get to the office, and it’s almost time to go home at that point.
65 00:08:03.810 ⇒ 00:08:09.539 Syed: But yeah, but that’s normal New York, Jersey commute things, yeah.
66 00:08:09.540 ⇒ 00:08:26.989 Alexander Lubka: Totally. So, glad everybody’s safe and sound. Syed, my… my name’s Alexander, just to… I mean, I know we’ve been talking, but to introduce myself, I’m an advisor for project management and program management here at Brainforge. During the day, I work at a hedge fund doing technical project management and investment research.
67 00:08:26.990 ⇒ 00:08:39.720 Alexander Lubka: technology, but, love helping out. I think you already met Amber, and I work with Utam and the team to build out a PMO and, help with some training and mentoring, for… to build out this… this practice here at Brainforge.
68 00:08:40.190 ⇒ 00:08:40.520 Syed: Okay.
69 00:08:40.520 ⇒ 00:08:58.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and great to meet you. Thanks, Syed. I know we had, like, scheduling issues, so I appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, my name is Utam, I’m CEO of Brainforge. Brainforge is a company I started about 2 years ago. We started off primarily doing data analytics, so setting up data warehouses, data models, BI infrastructure.
70 00:08:58.420 ⇒ 00:09:13.249 Uttam Kumaran: My background is in data engineering and led data teams at several companies, led product, soon after that at a data startup. And then, you know, in building this business, kind of from the ground up, completely bootstrapped, we started using AI in the business quite a bit.
71 00:09:13.250 ⇒ 00:09:23.319 Uttam Kumaran: And from there, actually, you know, in the last 8 or 9 months, decided to go up to market with AI services, related to automation. So we kind of do a couple of main things.
72 00:09:23.320 ⇒ 00:09:35.269 Uttam Kumaran: Do a lot of data engineering, analytics engineering, do a lot of product analytics-related work, so roughly a lot of KPI strategy, and then we also do a lot of AI and automation work more recently. We’re about 15 people,
73 00:09:35.300 ⇒ 00:09:40.070 Uttam Kumaran: On any given day, we do have a lot of fractional people as well that are helping out with Alex.
74 00:09:40.110 ⇒ 00:10:03.589 Uttam Kumaran: And sort of growing our project management function and their delivery function as a whole. Of course, like, delivery is a huge part of this, like, three-legged stool, which is people, delivery, and sales. So it’s something that I think a lot about, and, you know, as a former product manager, I have some answers to how to do this, but certainly we’re looking to beef up the team with more experienced folks that can come in and
75 00:10:03.590 ⇒ 00:10:24.599 Uttam Kumaran: And really make a dent. We’re growing pretty rapidly, you know, signing or renewing almost a client every week right now. So it’s a really exciting time, but also things are starting to break, so that’s kind of why we’re going to the market and looking, for this role, and yeah, we’re super impressed by your background and your past interviews, and, yeah, excited to spend the time today.
76 00:10:25.260 ⇒ 00:10:38.099 Syed: Sounds good. No, yeah, likewise. I spoke to Amber. She gave me a pretty good, idea of the role that she… that you guys are trying to fill at the moment. Of course, I have some questions in terms of, like, the structure, and then the goals for the said
77 00:10:38.100 ⇒ 00:10:46.909 Syed: role and some pain points that I would like to understand. But yeah, we can dive into it, whenever, you know, we can structure the said conversation accordingly and dive into it.
78 00:10:47.200 ⇒ 00:11:00.950 Alexander Lubka: No, I think that’s a great place to start. I watched the video, or the recording for your interview with Amber. Seems like it went well, and I know it’s been a little while, and you had some time to think about it since that interview, so I’d love to… we could definitely start there. I want to make sure we answer all your questions, so…
79 00:11:01.130 ⇒ 00:11:01.670 Syed: Huh.
80 00:11:01.890 ⇒ 00:11:12.930 Syed: So, okay, so some of the things that have, like, I’ve chewed on for… since our last Amber conversation to today is, like, I’m just trying to understand, like, what
81 00:11:12.930 ⇒ 00:11:23.789 Syed: this particular role is trying to fill at the moment, right? And I can give you an idea what I think it is, then you guys can tell me if I’m way off base or something. So, I know Amber…
82 00:11:23.790 ⇒ 00:11:36.379 Syed: Something that Amber mentioned was, hey, whoever takes on this role, we are eventually hoping that particular person would grow out this particular PML, and the team, right? That’s A.
83 00:11:36.510 ⇒ 00:11:40.900 Syed: B, my question is, would this particular rule at the moment, where it stands.
84 00:11:40.900 ⇒ 00:11:57.629 Syed: would be a project manager, or slash program manager, slash delivery manager kind of role at the moment, because if I understand from what Utem just mentioned, was like, hey, listen, we are growing rapidly, we need to put some structure around it in terms of someone being a liaison between us.
85 00:11:57.630 ⇒ 00:12:00.319 Syed: And the client. So there’s a lot of, like.
86 00:12:00.980 ⇒ 00:12:08.550 Syed: experience that I have gained from through KPMG perspective, right? So being a management consultant, so that’s what you do, right? You become that liaison between
87 00:12:08.960 ⇒ 00:12:32.009 Syed: the delivery team and the client to ensure that the client is, A, in the know, B, is in the know of all any risks, any delays, so on and so forth, and then managing that said client so they understand where we are, and if there’s a delay, what is the next step, how can we pull this back in line, so on and so forth, like a traditional project manager would do, but at the same time, it has a good
88 00:12:32.010 ⇒ 00:12:39.019 Syed: heavy flavor of client management, which I actually really enjoyed when I was with KPMG. So, just wondering.
89 00:12:39.020 ⇒ 00:12:49.189 Syed: with the two statements that I’ve made, I guess the most immediate need would be the second one that I just mentioned. And then, once that is in play, and depending on how we grow.
90 00:12:49.640 ⇒ 00:13:08.699 Syed: then that particular role would then hopefully shift into assisting with building it out further as a more of a team, because let’s just say if you have 20 clients, one project manager or program manager will not be able to support the 20 clients, right? So on and so forth. So I just wanted to understand if my head is in the right space for this particular role at the moment.
91 00:13:09.660 ⇒ 00:13:16.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, from my perspective, I think you’re spot on. You know, the reason why it is, you know, we’re not big enough, and we’re…
92 00:13:16.610 ⇒ 00:13:35.330 Uttam Kumaran: Not a software company, right? So there’s a huge client management focus, there’s a huge, as you mentioned, like, management consulting focus, where it is a lot of morphing our services to what the client needs, versus, like, a one-size-fits-all approach. Additionally, everybody on most of our teams now are all contributing to building up systems and processes.
93 00:13:35.330 ⇒ 00:13:41.419 Uttam Kumaran: Like, you know, this started off as just me, and now we’ve grown to all these people. We have divisions now.
94 00:13:41.420 ⇒ 00:13:54.150 Uttam Kumaran: in sales, marketing, even within delivery, right, we have project management, we have the engineering functions themselves. Everyone is contributing to sort of building up playbooks, reusable assets, reusable methods and ways of scaling the business.
95 00:13:54.150 ⇒ 00:14:18.750 Uttam Kumaran: But certainly, like, this one project manager is not here to take on every client. You know, I think in ways this role can evolve is it can continue to take on the most sophisticated clients, and the most difficult, or the ones at risk, it could also transition into more of a leader in, like, managing PMs, or leading PMO. I think, you know, as Alex knows, like, I’m much more interested in promoting from within.
96 00:14:18.750 ⇒ 00:14:32.610 Uttam Kumaran: and for giving people opportunity to sort of go the direction they want to go if there’s an opportunity in the company. But that sort of is… we expect people at this stage of the company to stretch into both executing and then also building whatever function.
97 00:14:32.610 ⇒ 00:14:39.630 Uttam Kumaran: As the company grows, there will be leadership that takes care of that, while there will just be plug-and-play sort of project management.
98 00:14:39.630 ⇒ 00:14:51.650 Uttam Kumaran: But this sort of person is setting the stage from… right now, it’s Amber and one other person that’s sort of PMing all clients. This sort of builds, now there’s 3 people. Through that, we should be able to handle our, like, 10 or 11 clients.
99 00:14:51.650 ⇒ 00:15:05.940 Uttam Kumaran: And then also set a roadmap on budget, how do we hire for the next person, who does that person could be? That’s, like, sort of the partner that we’re looking for, right now, you know, in that role. But in addition, there is a lot of just on-the-ground PMing that has to happen.
100 00:15:06.380 ⇒ 00:15:14.079 Syed: So, with that being said, this third person that you… this… the third role that you’re trying… that you’re trying to fill.
101 00:15:14.240 ⇒ 00:15:22.350 Syed: Has that come organically, due to just the growth? Or there is, like, hey.
102 00:15:22.800 ⇒ 00:15:25.539 Syed: There is a pain point we’re trying to…
103 00:15:25.790 ⇒ 00:15:35.699 Syed: alleviate as quickly as possible. That’s what the reason for this third particular role is, or it could be a hybrid of both, right? It happens. So, what is your point of view on that?
104 00:15:35.700 ⇒ 00:15:36.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
105 00:15:36.800 ⇒ 00:15:47.759 Uttam Kumaran: So, when we were small, I was, you know, part of it is, like, when we were very small, I was playing every role, right? And if you think of a typical client engagement, the characters involved on our side.
106 00:15:47.760 ⇒ 00:16:05.180 Uttam Kumaran: There’s an account executive, project management, technical lead, solutions architect, and the engineers, right? So, in any moment right now, what we’re doing is sort of alleviating me and my business partner out of as many of us as possible. We will… we’re still the only salespeople in the company, so we are looking to stick probably just in the account executive role.
107 00:16:05.180 ⇒ 00:16:15.500 Uttam Kumaran: And of course, we float. We float naturally everywhere, but we can’t be the primary responsibility owner, on any of the delivery roles across the company. So that’s, like, the guiding principle.
108 00:16:15.500 ⇒ 00:16:31.530 Uttam Kumaran: The reason why we’re opening is purely growth. We… we only had 5 clients, now we’re sort of nearing to 15. We still have a lot of backlog and plans to grow, and so that’s why we’re hiring. But additionally, the person we’re hiring
109 00:16:31.530 ⇒ 00:16:45.240 Uttam Kumaran: For this role, we’re not just looking for somebody, you know, there’s two kind of people. There’s some people who come to this job and are, like, plug and play, they just want to come in, clock in, clock out. There’s also someone I can rely on as, like, a lead, where you could kind of lead this function.
110 00:16:45.530 ⇒ 00:17:02.779 Uttam Kumaran: Right now, throughout the whole company, we’re building this, like, lead organization across each of our engineering functions, across sales, across marketing and design, where this… these folks become the integrators in those different functions, and start to execute the strategy that’s set with us at the top.
111 00:17:02.780 ⇒ 00:17:08.910 Syed: Got it. So, just to close this particular topic out, right, from a role perspective.
112 00:17:09.450 ⇒ 00:17:12.300 Syed: So is it safe to assume that…
113 00:17:12.490 ⇒ 00:17:32.389 Syed: Okay, startup is a startup. I’ve worked at Castle before, it’s very startup by every means of the world, so I understand, like, wearing multiple hats and jumping in where required, whatever, you know, like, in terms of, like, from an RFP perspective, from a sales perspective, required, you jump in and you assist and you help out, right? Keeping all that in mind.
114 00:17:33.080 ⇒ 00:17:47.849 Syed: would you believe that, let’s just say 75% of the role would be a client-facing, project management-centric role, and the other 25 would be a combination of everything else that I mentioned, plus any internal projects that you’re doing?
115 00:17:48.720 ⇒ 00:17:51.060 Syed: It could be whatever, right? It could be just, oh.
116 00:17:51.060 ⇒ 00:18:04.710 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a fair, yeah, it’s a fair assumption, and this isn’t, like, I think, you know, kind of, like, kind of picking on your verbiage of, like, startup. I also worked in a lot of VC-backed startups. We’re not hiring because we’re, like, there is, like, 150%.
117 00:18:04.710 ⇒ 00:18:12.829 Syed: And we need someone to take on 100% PM and 25% of another event. Like, what we’re… our expectations are not… like, nobody in the company should be, like.
118 00:18:12.930 ⇒ 00:18:21.110 Uttam Kumaran: I’m at 100% capacity. Like, that’s not the company we’re running. So in that sense, I think I would probably say, like, you’re right in that 75%
119 00:18:21.130 ⇒ 00:18:38.509 Uttam Kumaran: is, like, still a lot of client-facing stuff, and then 25% goes to sort of building out the function. Of course, what needs to happen on a daily basis for the client is the number one, but we are starting to build the foundations to then attract and bring on the next five PMs, right? So.
120 00:18:38.510 ⇒ 00:18:55.600 Uttam Kumaran: That is something that we’re still working on, and we hope that the people in the company now are contributing to that. We’re not at the stage where we do have some people, but most people are, in some ways, split in that range, where they’re, like, 80-20, where they’re spending 20% of their time building the business a little bit, 80% in their direct function.
121 00:18:56.190 ⇒ 00:18:56.889 Uttam Kumaran: Got it.
122 00:18:57.680 ⇒ 00:19:17.350 Syed: Okay, no, that gives me an idea of what this particular role is, and what are your expectations, so to speak, right? So it’s not like a lopsided expectation saying that, hey, you know, I’m just coming in and, you know, like, building something from scratch. It’s like, no, this is client-facing, we need to ensure that we are managing their particular deliverable.
123 00:19:17.540 ⇒ 00:19:22.570 Syed: And then… and then as it roll evolves, it roll evolves, right, organically. Let me take it from there.
124 00:19:23.190 ⇒ 00:19:32.220 Syed: Is it possible for you to assist me in understanding what your typical project managers do at the moment? What I mean by that is…
125 00:19:32.940 ⇒ 00:19:38.829 Uttam Kumaran: Is this particular project a very standard project, and maybe Alex can, like.
126 00:19:38.830 ⇒ 00:19:44.330 Syed: you know, like, talk to this a little bit more, because he’s already working as a TPM at…
127 00:19:44.460 ⇒ 00:19:59.590 Syed: his day job, so to speak, right? So, you can be like, hey, listen, like, so the way I look at project managers is, like, we do a lot of facilitating, we do a lot of coordinating, we do a lot of, like, talking people up the ledge, so to speak, whether it be internal or external.
128 00:20:00.230 ⇒ 00:20:08.399 Syed: But then, when you come into an environment of such of a startup, so to speak, right? So a lot of these roles, they take on a little bit more. For example.
129 00:20:08.920 ⇒ 00:20:26.730 Syed: when we do… when we’re dealing with new clients and we’re doing requirements gathering, right? Typically, typically, the… in my past roles, I’ll have a BA that will assist, right? Because that is their forte, and they’re very good at it, right? Or the product manager would create a PRD, so to speak, because that’s their job, they’re very good at it, right?
130 00:20:26.800 ⇒ 00:20:33.869 Syed: In other startups, like, they’re, like, they rely on the project managers to do that, right? And then on the other extreme side, let’s just say
131 00:20:34.050 ⇒ 00:20:41.970 Syed: I don’t know if that applies here, like, change management. Like, we are rolling something out, now we have to do change management training, in other words, right?
132 00:20:42.400 ⇒ 00:20:58.910 Syed: are we relying on the project managers at Brainforce to do the training? Or do we have assistants who are actually SMEs in terms of the product, in terms of how a good change management would happen, right? Or are we relying on the project managers to do, like, a…
133 00:20:59.240 ⇒ 00:21:02.710 Syed: Best as they can, so the client can get
134 00:21:02.870 ⇒ 00:21:18.960 Syed: started, and then we can assist them as you go along. Like, where… where do you… what is the brain forges mentality of doing that? Do we… are we looking at SMEs? Are we looking at project managers to just do everything and get the clients, you know, in a working
135 00:21:19.070 ⇒ 00:21:23.210 Syed: shape, and then we evolve from there. Like, what is the concept?
136 00:21:23.960 ⇒ 00:21:33.040 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, currently it’s the latter. It’s, you know, we don’t have BAs, dedicated BAs, we don’t have, you know, product owners or product managers. A lot of the,
137 00:21:33.040 ⇒ 00:21:56.929 Alexander Lubka: the PMO has set up to include processes for all the things, or a lot of things that you talked about, there’s a change control process, there’s an initiation process, you know, we work, you know, kind of as, you know, even on a sales side, too, where, you know, then the sales cycle, PMs get involved towards the end of that, to do, like, some of the requirements gathering you talk about, start the, you know, planning process, initiation process there.
138 00:21:56.930 ⇒ 00:22:09.760 Alexander Lubka: So it’s not like working at, you know, a larger firm or, you know, an AWS or something where you have, like, all these different roles. It is a lot of ownership of project managers, those different parts and different stages of the project lifecycle.
139 00:22:10.750 ⇒ 00:22:11.440 Syed: Okay.
140 00:22:12.350 ⇒ 00:22:26.789 Syed: So, then, how would… how would someone like me, let’s just say if I do get the role, right? How do someone like me get ramped up in… in that? Because, to be very fair, right? Because I haven’t done requirement gathering as a…
141 00:22:27.530 ⇒ 00:22:46.510 Syed: job, per se, right? Like, it’s… I could do it, no doubt, but, like, it won’t be as crisp as a BA would do it, right? So, like, what are the thoughts there, like, in terms of, like, how do I get the assistance to get ramped up, A, and how do I get the assistance to ensure that the
142 00:22:46.690 ⇒ 00:22:50.669 Syed: The recurring gathering aspect is not lacking, so our…
143 00:22:50.920 ⇒ 00:23:00.430 Syed: engineering fail, so to speak, right? I’m not giving them the tools to succeed, because I couldn’t do that job properly, because that has not been… that is not my forte, so to speak, right?
144 00:23:00.640 ⇒ 00:23:25.379 Alexander Lubka: Yeah, so, like, we have established a RACI for those different functions, and I wouldn’t say, like, the requirements gathering is your… would be your responsibility. You still have the sales… you have Utam and Robert and anybody they bring on in sales that will, you know, are responsible for… for that as being the main liaison with the… the prospects, or the… ultimately the, you know, clients. So, I would… any area… if we’re going through, like, a RACI of the different
145 00:23:25.380 ⇒ 00:23:47.349 Alexander Lubka: areas, and if there are any that you are responsible for that you are not comfortable with, you know, we could… we have those other people that are, you know, accountable and consulted and informed on, so you have those people to rely on. You also have me, you know, to help with those things, too, so that, you know, I’m around. I’m not, you know, during the day, or day-to-day, but, you know, I… I meet with Amber, I meet with Rico, who’s also part of projects, and
146 00:23:48.160 ⇒ 00:24:03.569 Alexander Lubka: to help them with the training and help them when there isn’t clarity. We have, like, a roadmap, we have a, you know, a department charter, or a plan, that we want to continue to grow, and this person would be really big in, you know, bringing their,
147 00:24:03.830 ⇒ 00:24:10.560 Alexander Lubka: perspective on it, and helping us continue to grow and iterate on our department. But as… yeah, we would,
148 00:24:12.190 ⇒ 00:24:17.230 Alexander Lubka: But if there’s any areas that you’re not as comfortable with, we can partner on that, and we have those other
149 00:24:17.230 ⇒ 00:24:32.410 Alexander Lubka: areas of the company, you know, it’s not as the biggest place, but we do have the expertise in, like, sales, for example, or, you know, WooTom has experience in everything, pretty much. So, you know, we’re all about just, like, transparency on that, and so if there’s an area that isn’t as comfortable with you.
150 00:24:32.410 ⇒ 00:24:45.559 Alexander Lubka: you know, let us know. We’re hiring a project manager, a grounds, a person on the ground to just, you know, crush projects. We’re not expecting somebody perfect, so if there are areas that you aren’t as comfortable with, let’s talk about it, and we’ll get you the support you need.
151 00:24:46.440 ⇒ 00:25:04.350 Syed: No, that sounds good. No, because that’s one of my concerns, right? Like, I know what I can do well, and I know what I would like to learn, and I know I can learn, and so on and so forth, but there is a ramp-up period, right? So, my… I can be very honest with you, like, one of my strengths are, like, client management.
152 00:25:04.410 ⇒ 00:25:06.559 Syed: Project management, providing them
153 00:25:06.650 ⇒ 00:25:23.150 Syed: a good insight of where we are, why we’re not… why are we not getting to where we want to be, and how can we get there, right? Like, those are just high-level buckets from a project management perspective, right? So that’s… I’m really comfortable with, right? But let’s just say if a client comes in and says, say, XYZ thing is not working.
154 00:25:23.380 ⇒ 00:25:25.180 Syed: Why it’s not working?
155 00:25:25.320 ⇒ 00:25:33.580 Syed: I can probably go back and ensure that we get it working, but how to get there is something that I will probably definitely…
156 00:25:33.580 ⇒ 00:25:40.340 Uttam Kumaran: There’s totally SMEs across every single technical function. Yeah, so that’s… we’re not requiring, like, we’re not requiring
157 00:25:40.700 ⇒ 00:25:55.370 Uttam Kumaran: what I would expect is, like, technical product management, where, like, you have to have experience in all the systems. A lot of stuff we’re doing has only been existing for, like, a year, so nobody is really gonna know anyways. And for the most part, what we need the project management is play defense, triage.
158 00:25:55.480 ⇒ 00:25:59.130 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s… that’s it. Like, solving the problem is not…
159 00:25:59.160 ⇒ 00:26:15.969 Uttam Kumaran: a concern of mine. It’s actually the comms associated, and it’s the right triage and escalation paths. But again, that… it takes, like, a generic approach, so, like, problem comes in, how do I calm whoever’s asking that down, understand, like, what SLAs did we sign up for, and understand who in the business can answer that?
160 00:26:15.970 ⇒ 00:26:20.750 Uttam Kumaran: Again, this is not a very big business, so if it’s data, there are a couple people, and then, of course, like.
161 00:26:20.860 ⇒ 00:26:26.359 Uttam Kumaran: there’s escalation paths that go up from there. So we’re not expecting the project manager to be
162 00:26:26.460 ⇒ 00:26:36.180 Uttam Kumaran: technical in… in that sense on… on really any of our… any of our systems. I would prefer that people have used data or AI systems before can speak to
163 00:26:36.330 ⇒ 00:26:41.379 Uttam Kumaran: basic things like APIs, data warehouse, but, like, beyond that, no, it’s on the engineers.
164 00:26:41.610 ⇒ 00:26:44.960 Syed: Oh, alright, good. Yeah, good.
165 00:26:45.680 ⇒ 00:27:04.039 Syed: I just want to ensure that you… you and I are on the same… when I say you, like, you guys are and I are on the same page, so this way, like, once we do move forward, there is no, like, say, like, you know, we thought that you could… I’ve been pretty transparent about what my strengths are, and I know, and I’m confident in them, right, from a project management perspective.
166 00:27:04.040 ⇒ 00:27:20.699 Syed: And then all the collateral that comes with it, right? The comms, the dashboards, the notes, you know, so on and so forth. Pretty much whatever we need to ensure that the client views me as an ally, and as someone that they can… as the first point of contact if there’s any issue, that’s my…
167 00:27:20.700 ⇒ 00:27:25.059 Syed: true goal, as a client-facing project manager, right? So…
168 00:27:25.650 ⇒ 00:27:34.159 Syed: So yeah, okay, so that helps. Okay, that gives me some sort of an idea of what the role is, what the expectations.
169 00:27:34.830 ⇒ 00:27:46.980 Syed: are at the moment, and I also understand, like, things change, right? Like, things evolve and things change, so that is not the concern. Like, if tomorrow you tell me, like, say, can you deep dive into this?
170 00:27:46.980 ⇒ 00:27:56.710 Syed: I cannot… I’m not gonna be like, no, no, I cannot deep dive into this, because you said, I’m not technical, that’s not the case. But yeah, but at least I know, like, the bigger chunk of what the role is.
171 00:27:56.740 ⇒ 00:28:02.139 Syed: So this way, I’m not walking in blind. Let’s just say if you do move forward, right? Okay. Yeah.
172 00:28:02.140 ⇒ 00:28:10.769 Alexander Lubka: I’ll set you up on a, like, a 30, 60, 90-day plan, that’s what we usually do. We’ll also… you know, but it… yeah, it’s a… it’s a project…
173 00:28:10.890 ⇒ 00:28:19.629 Alexander Lubka: what the job description is a client-facing project manager role, but the main caveat is it’s, you know, it’s a small… it’s a startup, so you can be stretched into different directions.
174 00:28:19.630 ⇒ 00:28:22.299 Syed: Yep, no, that’s perfectly fine, that makes sense.
175 00:28:23.060 ⇒ 00:28:30.970 Syed: Cool, okay, then I guess, one other question I would have is…
176 00:28:31.270 ⇒ 00:28:45.850 Syed: From a culture perspective, like, what are your, like, you know, thoughts about… if you could just give me, like, a, you know, a high-level overview of what the BrainProach culture is right now, and what the expectation is, right? Where do you envision
177 00:28:46.260 ⇒ 00:28:48.820 Syed: The college… from a culture perspective, going into the future.
178 00:28:49.480 ⇒ 00:28:59.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, great, great question. I would love to talk about… more people don’t ask me about that. They’re asking very specific, like, do I have to run stand-up, stuff like that. I’m happy to talk about the culture, it’s something I’m…
179 00:28:59.660 ⇒ 00:29:21.260 Uttam Kumaran: very, very opinionated about. I’ve… as I mentioned, like, I’ve worked in, you know, a lot of very fast-moving, venture-backed businesses before, where culture was often very second place, and, you know, growing the business was number one, and culture sort of sets itself, and… and that is a problem. You know, when you… when you…
180 00:29:21.260 ⇒ 00:29:26.469 Uttam Kumaran: are in a fast-moving business, and I won’t say ours is slow-moving, but I also won’t say that we’re
181 00:29:26.470 ⇒ 00:29:37.389 Uttam Kumaran: here to do unethical things and break things, but we do have a sense of urgency in the business. You have to set the culture from the top. And so one is we do have a culture of…
182 00:29:37.390 ⇒ 00:29:49.840 Uttam Kumaran: we’re fully remote, right? So that leads to a series of challenges where communication, async, and writing is really, really important. So we rely a lot on writing in Notion, feedback in writing, Slack.
183 00:29:49.860 ⇒ 00:30:04.839 Uttam Kumaran: We try to mitigate the amount of time we spend in meetings by doing that, because we just… everyone can’t be in 8 hours of meetings all day. We also can’t turn around and tap someone on the shoulder. So that’s probably one key part of the culture. The second thing is there’s not a culture of.
184 00:30:04.860 ⇒ 00:30:24.270 Uttam Kumaran: like, yelling or fear-based at all. In fact, that’s, like, incredibly opposite to the business we’re building, and there’s no way someone that pushes that type of mentality will ever make it into the business. So, it is a really collaborative environment, but it is challenging. Again, I use the word urgency very particularly because
185 00:30:24.270 ⇒ 00:30:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: we’re not slow, and we don’t, like, we are decision-forward, but it’s done in, like, a fail-fast area. Like, it’s actually hope that people fail quickly and reflect from their opinions, and move forward.
186 00:30:39.070 ⇒ 00:30:49.540 Uttam Kumaran: than sitting and being very fearful that the thing they’re gonna do is gonna affect a bunch of stuff. There is not a mistake that can be made in the company that I haven’t made a hundred times, and we’re still here. So I have no…
187 00:30:49.540 ⇒ 00:31:08.389 Uttam Kumaran: expectation that people get things right the first time. I actually would rather people try, and fail, and we move forward. So those are, like, a couple things about our culture. We also are, you know, hired globally. We have people here in the States, like, I’m here in Austin, we have people in New York and LA,
188 00:31:08.390 ⇒ 00:31:22.970 Uttam Kumaran: We also have people in different cultures in Asia, in Europe, and so we have a mix of cultures and mix of people, both race, gender, and from where they’re from. So, communication and understanding people’s communication styles is really important.
189 00:31:22.970 ⇒ 00:31:38.399 Uttam Kumaran: But at the end of the day, we are here to serve clients, and Brainforge is here to deliver a client outcome. So that is the number one goal, and we are a money-making enterprise. So I’m not very shy about telling that we’re here to make money, and I’m here to pay people more, and for us to make more money for clients.
190 00:31:38.660 ⇒ 00:31:40.480 Uttam Kumaran: So those are, like, a couple of…
191 00:31:40.830 ⇒ 00:31:49.650 Uttam Kumaran: things about how I think about the business. In terms of the way this is changing, look, I think Brainforge, at the end of the day, is a broker between the best people and the toughest problems.
192 00:31:49.650 ⇒ 00:32:06.019 Uttam Kumaran: And so, it is a… there’s a huge part of how can we be in the market and come across as the best partners for clients, where we can solve any problem they throw at us, or at least partner with others to solve their problem. And then similarly, on the recruitment side, how can we be one of the best places to work?
193 00:32:06.020 ⇒ 00:32:14.399 Uttam Kumaran: the best places that smart people want to work, and when you come in, we enable you with AI, platform, and tooling to help you do great work that isn’t boring.
194 00:32:14.400 ⇒ 00:32:34.069 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so those are the things I think about. I think a lot about what it would be like if I worked here, and what are the things that I would think sucked, and what are the things that I would like, and, you know, trying really hard to build a business that I would personally want to work at, and that takes a lot of asking for feedback, it takes a lot of iteration.
195 00:32:34.100 ⇒ 00:32:44.029 Uttam Kumaran: But I think you’d be hard-pressed to talk to someone in the company that, that says we take feedback really poorly, and that we iterate on it very slowly.
196 00:32:44.070 ⇒ 00:32:47.829 Uttam Kumaran: Like, that is not a part of our DNA at all.
197 00:32:48.420 ⇒ 00:32:50.209 Syed: Nope, makes sense.
198 00:32:52.210 ⇒ 00:32:56.610 Syed: I think, to be honest, I have nothing else. If you guys have anything for me.
199 00:32:57.140 ⇒ 00:33:03.760 Syed: We can talk about that, but maybe, like, bring you one last thing, like, I understand you’re client-facing, right? So…
200 00:33:04.310 ⇒ 00:33:12.929 Syed: Is there a requirement for us to be on-site with clients, at the moment, or if it is, like, what does that percentage look like?
201 00:33:13.480 ⇒ 00:33:25.359 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s 100% remote. Most of all of our clients are U.S, so it’s… time zone’s not really an issue, and it’s all 100% remote. If clients…
202 00:33:25.700 ⇒ 00:33:30.720 Uttam Kumaran: decide to pay me 5 times more, then yeah, I’m, like, open to any people on site, but at the moment, it’s, like, not
203 00:33:31.370 ⇒ 00:33:33.050 Uttam Kumaran: Not on my radar at all, yeah.
204 00:33:33.050 ⇒ 00:33:42.219 Syed: Alright, cool. Yeah, that sounds good. I mean, as you can imagine, like, I mean, I have a 7-year-old, right? And I have a significant other with a…
205 00:33:42.530 ⇒ 00:33:48.620 Syed: more pressing job than I do, and I’m more… I mean, we should… I shouldn’t say that in front of,
206 00:33:48.700 ⇒ 00:34:08.350 Syed: my eventual, hopefully, possible CEO, but, like, she does more good than we would, right? So… so it’s like… so traveling just becomes, like, an ordeal, right? Yeah, once a quarter, twice a quarter, whatever, but, like, in my past life, I was just, like, Monday to Thursday. I was like, yeah, once I had my daughter, I was like, I can’t even…
207 00:34:09.110 ⇒ 00:34:28.939 Uttam Kumaran: So this is a completely remote business. I work remotely, and I don’t want to have any stipulations like that, and it’s not fair for me to have that for my team, so that’s not, like, in the cards. If a client is literally in Jersey, and you want to see them, that sounds like probably a good thing to do. But also, like, yeah, that’s, that’s…
208 00:34:28.949 ⇒ 00:34:32.899 Syed: At the same time, you’re not asking me to go across the Atlantic.
209 00:34:32.900 ⇒ 00:34:33.900 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, no.
210 00:34:33.939 ⇒ 00:34:35.309 Syed: You know.
211 00:34:35.310 ⇒ 00:34:41.600 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, again, if we’re in a position to do that, and we must be making a ton of money, and… but also, that’s not a requirement for this at all.
212 00:34:41.600 ⇒ 00:34:45.869 Syed: Yeah, the brain for it, and yeah, it just gets there when you…
213 00:34:45.870 ⇒ 00:34:46.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
214 00:34:46.739 ⇒ 00:34:59.929 Syed: Yeah, okay, no, to be honest, like, I think I have nothing else. I think this gives me a very good picture of what the requirements are. So I’ll hand it over to you guys. If you guys have any questions for me, I’m more than happy to answer.
215 00:35:00.600 ⇒ 00:35:14.699 Alexander Lubka: No, I think this, we, you know, we suddenly agree with Amber, obviously you have the skill set and can do the job, we think, we just wanted to spend some time with you, just to make sure we answer your questions, and see if this is something you’re interested in.
216 00:35:15.420 ⇒ 00:35:30.789 Syed: Yeah, no, from what I’ve heard thus far, the role sounds really good. And to be honest, it sounds good, just for the fact that I know that… it’s been… it’s in my wheelhouse, right? Like, I’m not trying to change my particular…
217 00:35:30.850 ⇒ 00:35:38.430 Alexander Lubka: career path at the age… at the tender age of 40, right? So, it feels like… so I did… by the way, I turned 40 this year, so it’s like… Happy birthday.
218 00:35:38.660 ⇒ 00:35:40.000 Uttam Kumaran: Best, yeah.
219 00:35:40.000 ⇒ 00:35:43.349 Syed: Okay, thank you. So, August is when I turned 40, and…
220 00:35:43.350 ⇒ 00:35:45.269 Alexander Lubka: I wonder if you were traveling, going to Switzerland.
221 00:35:45.490 ⇒ 00:35:46.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
222 00:35:46.130 ⇒ 00:35:46.800 Syed: Oh, good.
223 00:35:46.800 ⇒ 00:35:47.160 Alexander Lubka: That makes sense.
224 00:35:48.500 ⇒ 00:36:05.190 Syed: So… so yeah, so, so yeah, so… so it’s in my wheelhouse, and I think I can leverage that, what is already in my wheelhouse, to actually elevate and learn a little bit more about the business, and then leverage that to just actually elevate myself also as a project manager, right?
225 00:36:05.410 ⇒ 00:36:13.360 Syed: So, it does sound very interesting, and I think, with all that being said, what are your next steps looks like at the moment?
226 00:36:14.390 ⇒ 00:36:32.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so on our side, we have a couple of candidates, that we’re sort of circling around and kind of made it to this last step. We… between… now, again, I’m really lucky that’s just not me making all the decisions on people, so we have a little bit of a committee-based approach, so we will kind of talk internally.
227 00:36:32.660 ⇒ 00:36:45.250 Uttam Kumaran: And hopefully make some decisions. I know it’s Thursday, so probably by early next week, I hope to kind of come to some conclusions, so you can expect to hear back from us pretty soon. But in the meantime, if there’s any questions I can answer for you.
228 00:36:45.250 ⇒ 00:36:57.040 Uttam Kumaran: like, please don’t hesitate. If you want to chat with me or whatever, I’m happy to hop on the phone and be available. But yeah, this is really, really great. I really appreciate, Tom, and thanks again for, you know, rescheduling and.
229 00:36:57.040 ⇒ 00:37:11.480 Syed: No, no, no, thank you guys. I mean, you know, it was just… that’s all it is. But, no, I really look forward to hearing back, and, you know, you know, depending on how things go. I really, I do look forward to, like, you know.
230 00:37:12.250 ⇒ 00:37:28.170 Syed: getting into it from a… more of an understanding of the company, so on and so forth, and for any reason, I know it’s a startup, so to speak, right? For any reason it just does not work out, would really love to be, you know, just be involved in any material, like, if you ever have any
231 00:37:28.560 ⇒ 00:37:40.259 Syed: I appreciate it. We’re more than happy to do, like, how Amazon did it, or how KPME does it, or whatever, like, some, like, I’m giving you two examples of, like, where they’re very, like.
232 00:37:41.270 ⇒ 00:37:49.980 Syed: we are right all the time, right? I can give you, like, my idea of where they actually write all the time, and we all know what the answer there is, right?
233 00:37:49.980 ⇒ 00:37:50.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
234 00:37:50.890 ⇒ 00:37:57.580 Syed: But anyways, yeah, so I look forward to, you know, talking to you guys further, and let’s see how everything goes out.
235 00:37:58.520 ⇒ 00:38:00.490 Uttam Kumaran: Great, awesome. Really appreciate your time.
236 00:38:00.800 ⇒ 00:38:01.160 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
237 00:38:01.160 ⇒ 00:38:01.640 Alexander Lubka: kitchen.
238 00:38:01.640 ⇒ 00:38:03.379 Uttam Kumaran: Talk soon. Bye.