Meeting Title: Brainforge OKR Planning and Feedback Date: 2025-09-02 Meeting participants: Samuel Roberts, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:29:48.800 ⇒ 00:29:50.190 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
2 00:29:55.330 ⇒ 00:29:56.340 Samuel Roberts: Yay.
3 00:29:59.690 ⇒ 00:30:00.740 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
4 00:30:00.740 ⇒ 00:30:03.170 Samuel Roberts: Good, good. This little guy.
5 00:30:03.170 ⇒ 00:30:04.810 Uttam Kumaran: Hi, kiddo!
6 00:30:04.810 ⇒ 00:30:17.289 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, he’s been a little fussy today, and of course, you know, this morning his mom had an appointment, so I’m on baby duty, and he doesn’t want to sleep unless… he doesn’t want to sleep unless he’s like this.
7 00:30:18.160 ⇒ 00:30:20.019 Uttam Kumaran: That’s current.
8 00:30:20.370 ⇒ 00:30:26.519 Samuel Roberts: But we’re doing alright. I keep putting them down, and I’m like, oh, I can get him in it, and I had him in a, like, a little sling thing.
9 00:30:26.520 ⇒ 00:30:26.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
10 00:30:27.140 ⇒ 00:30:32.189 Samuel Roberts: trying to work earlier, and it worked pretty well, but I was just getting real hot with him, so I just…
11 00:30:32.770 ⇒ 00:30:33.730 Samuel Roberts: Larry.
12 00:30:33.850 ⇒ 00:30:37.739 Samuel Roberts: I got a hand free, I can… I can type with one hand for a minute.
13 00:30:37.740 ⇒ 00:30:38.550 Uttam Kumaran: Great, great, great.
14 00:30:38.550 ⇒ 00:30:40.220 Samuel Roberts: But yeah, how’s it going?
15 00:30:40.520 ⇒ 00:30:42.570 Uttam Kumaran: Good, dude. Yeah, I’m just,
16 00:30:42.970 ⇒ 00:30:46.359 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… I think this week’s gonna be good, I’m… I’m,
17 00:30:46.610 ⇒ 00:30:53.729 Uttam Kumaran: Robert is out a little bit this week, so I’m kind of filling in for him on some stuff. Okay. But I’m excited, like, I think…
18 00:30:54.140 ⇒ 00:30:57.310 Uttam Kumaran: I’m pumped to get the OKRs finally done, I think.
19 00:30:57.310 ⇒ 00:30:57.900 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
20 00:30:57.900 ⇒ 00:31:03.269 Uttam Kumaran: you’re starting to see, sort of, all the clients, and I think today we can kind of talk about,
21 00:31:03.500 ⇒ 00:31:07.419 Uttam Kumaran: sort of, like, what’s next, and yeah, I kind of want to talk today about, like.
22 00:31:07.600 ⇒ 00:31:12.629 Uttam Kumaran: your reflections on… probably, what, it’s been, like, a month or so? .
23 00:31:12.630 ⇒ 00:31:13.220 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
24 00:31:13.440 ⇒ 00:31:19.509 Uttam Kumaran: And then also talk about, like, ramping you up, like, logistics and things like that, so, yeah.
25 00:31:21.010 ⇒ 00:31:24.100 Samuel Roberts: Cool, yeah, where do you wanna, where do you wanna start?
26 00:31:24.100 ⇒ 00:31:31.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe I’ll just, like, want to hear, like, your, like, gut feedback on, like, seeing the company, seeing, like, the last month.
27 00:31:31.420 ⇒ 00:31:40.180 Uttam Kumaran: kind of, like, get a sense for, like, what you thought it was before, what you’re seeing it as now, like, the potential, kind of, like, yeah, let’s get the reflection. Yeah.
28 00:31:40.680 ⇒ 00:31:48.860 Samuel Roberts: Interesting, yeah, let me… it’s hard to think back to, like, what I was picturing, because I’m not really sure what I was picturing, necessarily. But now I have so much, like.
29 00:31:50.280 ⇒ 00:31:55.369 Samuel Roberts: you know, experience now in the last month that I’m like, I don’t even know what I was expecting, necessarily, but
30 00:31:57.770 ⇒ 00:32:05.959 Samuel Roberts: I mean, I think, for me, the weird… the difference that I’m still wrapping my head around is, like, the consultancy part of it, and, like, clients, and, like.
31 00:32:06.520 ⇒ 00:32:07.850 Samuel Roberts: knowing…
32 00:32:08.040 ⇒ 00:32:21.940 Samuel Roberts: like, I want to work on some of the cool internal stuff, and get all the stuff going, and, like, it’s that kind of, like, I can feel the drawback, or even just, like, when I was suggesting this stuff for Interlude, I’m like, I’m thinking, like, so product-y, and I’m just, like, I want to build the coolest thing, and I want to do… and I’m like, is that…
33 00:32:21.940 ⇒ 00:32:30.089 Samuel Roberts: the best thing, and so I’m kind of having to use, for me, that side of, like, well, the clients come first, the client work needs to be good, the client work needs to be, you know.
34 00:32:30.090 ⇒ 00:32:33.350 Samuel Roberts: But it’s gonna help them, and obviously, like, then there’s…
35 00:32:33.640 ⇒ 00:32:37.279 Samuel Roberts: not overdoing it as well, I imagine.
36 00:32:38.900 ⇒ 00:32:49.679 Samuel Roberts: But, I mean, besides that, I’m still… I don’t know if I have a great… I’m getting more insight into the rest of the company, you know what I mean? Like, I… I have, you know, a pretty good feel for Casey and Mustafa.
37 00:32:50.630 ⇒ 00:32:52.480 Samuel Roberts: You know, like, they’re…
38 00:32:52.730 ⇒ 00:33:03.110 Samuel Roberts: they’re pretty good at doing what they need to do. Like, they understand the clients at this point better than I do, so, because, like, they’re in it more hours of the day, I feel like.
39 00:33:03.220 ⇒ 00:33:09.620 Samuel Roberts: And I’m kind of been bouncing in and out, and so I’m getting a better feel for some of the clients. Like, ABC, I feel a bit better understanding, like.
40 00:33:10.180 ⇒ 00:33:20.340 Samuel Roberts: the whole thing. Interlude, I got a good sense of now. Like, defaults, when we were on the call earlier today, I’m like, I kind of know what’s happening there, and I’ve been on a few calls, but I’m not quite.
41 00:33:20.340 ⇒ 00:33:20.930 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, like, yeah.
42 00:33:21.060 ⇒ 00:33:27.690 Samuel Roberts: as up to speed, so I didn’t want to, like, you know… but, I mean, I just…
43 00:33:29.880 ⇒ 00:33:46.679 Samuel Roberts: you know, there’s lots of people, there’s lots of moving parts, and it’s always, like, getting that… it’s a combination of them, I’m not sure where the line is with, like, me getting up to speed, me being, like, half-time, basically, you know, not being plugged in with, like, other parts of the company as well, and so I don’t know, like…
44 00:33:47.930 ⇒ 00:33:55.320 Samuel Roberts: what my feelings are overall. Like, I think there’s some… a little bit of, like… I mean, we were talking about this a little bit with the engineering team. There’s a little bit of, like.
45 00:33:55.650 ⇒ 00:33:57.700 Samuel Roberts: I don’t want to say silo, necessarily, but, like.
46 00:33:57.700 ⇒ 00:34:00.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, there is, for sure.
47 00:34:00.090 ⇒ 00:34:07.169 Samuel Roberts: Fragmentation, I guess? Yeah, exactly, exactly. You’re the one holding it together in a lot of ways, and, like, connecting things.
48 00:34:07.550 ⇒ 00:34:08.830 Samuel Roberts: And so…
49 00:34:09.429 ⇒ 00:34:20.139 Samuel Roberts: that’s sort of my first reaction. Like, I deal with, you know, Casey Mustafa a lot, I’ve, you know, chatted with Awash a few times, you probably more than Awash at this point, but, you know, I think as…
50 00:34:21.290 ⇒ 00:34:36.770 Samuel Roberts: again, it’s a combination of, like, me being… getting started, and not knowing what to expect, figuring out what to expect, expect, you know what I mean? I don’t want to, like, be like, oh, I think there’s a lot of, like, hmm, like, I don’t know what’s going on here, I don’t know what’s going on there, you know, especially, like, from an AI side, wanting to help
51 00:34:37.020 ⇒ 00:34:42.139 Samuel Roberts: automate things and get a better sense, like, I think I probably need to sink my teeth into some of the other
52 00:34:42.300 ⇒ 00:34:55.640 Samuel Roberts: parts of the company a little bit more, especially, like, understanding the sales stuff better, marketing. I have a little bit of sense of the PM stuff, obviously, because I’m interacting with them more than the other, like, marketing and sales.
53 00:34:55.860 ⇒ 00:35:02.369 Samuel Roberts: But, you know, it’s just… I… this is probably one of the first times I’ve come into a company like this.
54 00:35:02.550 ⇒ 00:35:07.180 Samuel Roberts: like, a lot of times I’m, like, building the company, so I’m, like, I’m the one that’s, like, in your position.
55 00:35:08.190 ⇒ 00:35:08.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
56 00:35:09.260 ⇒ 00:35:16.729 Samuel Roberts: it’s, like, more of the glue, more of the, like, seeing different… a different level of it than I’m getting now, and so I’m just… I’m trying to…
57 00:35:17.010 ⇒ 00:35:22.380 Samuel Roberts: Understand that and find my place in it that way, without… like…
58 00:35:22.940 ⇒ 00:35:24.780 Samuel Roberts: Having all the information you have?
59 00:35:24.940 ⇒ 00:35:25.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
60 00:35:25.280 ⇒ 00:35:29.629 Samuel Roberts: And knowing, like, what information I need and what information I don’t need is, like…
61 00:35:30.730 ⇒ 00:35:50.270 Samuel Roberts: one of the… I mean, it’s like a… that’s my personal challenge, where, like, I want to know everything, because that’s just sort of, like, the default behavior for me as, like, a founder. And even as a founder, you don’t need to know everything, you want to know as much as you need, but, like, it’s easy to be the guy that is, like, holding everything, gluing everything out, like, picking up the slack when things are falling through.
62 00:35:53.260 ⇒ 00:35:55.240 Samuel Roberts: I’m not really sure where I’m going with that. I feel like I’m just rambling.
63 00:35:55.240 ⇒ 00:35:59.110 Uttam Kumaran: No, so I guess, like, you’re right, I mean, so there’s a couple things. One is, like.
64 00:35:59.230 ⇒ 00:36:11.609 Uttam Kumaran: What you’re seeing is, like, the early stages of a consultancy, where in a product company, you need to have, like, a very core engineering group, versus in a consultancy.
65 00:36:11.850 ⇒ 00:36:22.209 Uttam Kumaran: it tends to be siloed because some clients only have certain services. And so what you’re seeing with this, like, Engleads process is I’m trying to build that camaraderie. But…
66 00:36:22.350 ⇒ 00:36:27.189 Uttam Kumaran: I’m doing it in the fact that I’m like, I’m… I can get everyone in the room, but, like.
67 00:36:27.340 ⇒ 00:36:46.709 Uttam Kumaran: the three of you guys need to start to mingle. And so that’s gonna be my… the way I’m switching my mode of operations, and what… how you’ll see my communication shift, is we’re building sort of this, like, next layer in the company that can take strategy and execute and integrate and, like, deal with everybody.
68 00:36:46.710 ⇒ 00:36:47.240 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
69 00:36:47.240 ⇒ 00:36:51.710 Uttam Kumaran: But my… what you’re gonna see my ask is gonna switch for… from…
70 00:36:51.860 ⇒ 00:36:54.780 Uttam Kumaran: Like, hey, go do this to, like, what do you think?
71 00:36:55.050 ⇒ 00:37:07.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and how can I help you? Whatever your answer is, I can give you my perspective, and then I’m like, when are you gonna action on that? And so that’s what my expectation is for… what I’m thinking about is, like, functional leads, which is, like.
72 00:37:07.910 ⇒ 00:37:08.290 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
73 00:37:08.290 ⇒ 00:37:10.180 Uttam Kumaran: Based on every…
74 00:37:10.300 ⇒ 00:37:16.100 Uttam Kumaran: sort of service area in our company. And so you’re right. The other thing is, we’re in a unique spot where
75 00:37:16.230 ⇒ 00:37:36.129 Uttam Kumaran: like, and this is what I think is actually really, really interesting, is we have this internal platform. Typical consultancies don’t invest in that until they’re, like, way, way bigger, and they can carve out… because that’s pure R&D, like, that’s not billable, right? But we’re opposite, because
76 00:37:36.270 ⇒ 00:37:39.139 Uttam Kumaran: I know we’re sitting on that, and that actually unlocks
77 00:37:39.210 ⇒ 00:37:53.610 Uttam Kumaran: us to develop faster for clients. But that’s what I think is why we can get someone like you and Casey Mustafa, in that we have both of those. But that’s a balance, in that we have an internal platform…
78 00:37:53.610 ⇒ 00:38:00.129 Uttam Kumaran: And we have the client work. And so it’s gonna be important, like, on the data side, it’s not this pronounced.
79 00:38:00.150 ⇒ 00:38:03.649 Samuel Roberts: On the AI team side, it is this pronounced, where.
80 00:38:03.970 ⇒ 00:38:08.900 Uttam Kumaran: I’m hopeful that you’re somebody who’s like… because I can tell that you… because you’ve seen
81 00:38:09.230 ⇒ 00:38:23.330 Uttam Kumaran: sales, marketing, all that. What this person needs is empathy for all that, and how the platform team builds for those stakeholders, right? That’s the role I was previously playing, in that I know what the project management team is doing, what sales is doing.
82 00:38:23.330 ⇒ 00:38:23.810 Samuel Roberts: Right.
83 00:38:23.810 ⇒ 00:38:33.830 Uttam Kumaran: And I then tell the AI team the requirements. This is what it… but again, it’s… it’s up to… it will be up to you to take the pressure from both sides.
84 00:38:34.000 ⇒ 00:38:34.320 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
85 00:38:34.320 ⇒ 00:38:40.919 Uttam Kumaran: and have an opinion on how to allocate the resource. Because the pressure is gonna… like, I’m not gonna stop
86 00:38:41.170 ⇒ 00:38:49.370 Uttam Kumaran: saying we should be doing stuff on the AI side, internally. I’m also not gonna stop saying that, clients are number one.
87 00:38:49.370 ⇒ 00:38:51.480 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, well, that’s your job, that’s exactly, yeah.
88 00:38:51.480 ⇒ 00:39:00.229 Uttam Kumaran: Both of those are directly contradictory, yet my job is to keep the pulse, and so I will always talk about both.
89 00:39:00.510 ⇒ 00:39:12.559 Uttam Kumaran: But this… this is where that’s a strategy when it comes to execution. Like, I wanna… I wanna hear your ideas, and then I want to help you execute those. Whether you’re like, hey.
90 00:39:12.560 ⇒ 00:39:23.289 Uttam Kumaran: I know we can allocate this percent, or this percent, and I want to do it this way. I’m like, perfect. But this is where, like, I’m hesitant to give that answer, because then I’m on the hook.
91 00:39:23.400 ⇒ 00:39:34.099 Uttam Kumaran: to do it, right? So this is where I’m, like, I’m trying to work with the functional leads and trying to get you guys to think about, you know, what those are, but I will say the AI is the…
92 00:39:34.320 ⇒ 00:39:44.700 Uttam Kumaran: is… continues to be, like, the largest opportunity area we have in our company to differentiate, and I think is the most interesting part about this whole business. You know.
93 00:39:44.700 ⇒ 00:39:45.240 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
94 00:39:45.420 ⇒ 00:39:49.880 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, there’s a lot of room there for, like, interesting things and new, yeah, novel…
95 00:39:50.130 ⇒ 00:40:09.059 Samuel Roberts: stuff that, like, every other consultancy is doing, sort of the data work, but how are they doing it? How can we level them up? And the sales and marketing side, too. I mean, everyone’s trying to figure that out in other ways for other companies, but, like, how do we do it for us? Yes. Yeah. I see that. Yeah, I think that’s sort of where I’m, like, a little split between, like.
96 00:40:09.600 ⇒ 00:40:19.939 Samuel Roberts: jumping in, like, both feet, because I feel like that’s what’s holding me back a little bit, is the, like, I’m not, you know, I’m not full-time, so I don’t want to be, like.
97 00:40:20.140 ⇒ 00:40:29.369 Samuel Roberts: making… like, I mean, I want to have the opinions, and I want to help that, but I also don’t want to be like, oh, no, no, we gotta prioritize this part over that, here or there, and I feel a little less, like…
98 00:40:29.910 ⇒ 00:40:43.270 Samuel Roberts: confident doing that, because I feel like I don’t have all the information and know, like, oh, no, no, no, we can bump that ticket, or something like that. Sure. For client work, especially. That’s where… and I think, as I’m getting more of a feel for that, I’m getting
99 00:40:44.010 ⇒ 00:40:46.039 Samuel Roberts: more… like, I can, you know.
100 00:40:46.220 ⇒ 00:40:49.580 Samuel Roberts: start to take that from you a bit. Yes. But…
101 00:40:49.960 ⇒ 00:40:53.499 Samuel Roberts: That’s where I’m just like, I… I don’t know…
102 00:40:54.190 ⇒ 00:40:58.549 Samuel Roberts: I’m hesitant to just be like, I’m gonna make that call, because…
103 00:40:59.540 ⇒ 00:41:07.690 Samuel Roberts: I don’t know what the feeling is, or if it is just, like, I’m not on all the time, so if someone needs… you know what I mean? Like, you’re… and that’s hard, and I get that, because, like, I don’t want to.
104 00:41:07.690 ⇒ 00:41:12.759 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s… but I guess my original… my first question is, like, I guess my ultimate question is.
105 00:41:12.760 ⇒ 00:41:13.080 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
106 00:41:13.080 ⇒ 00:41:15.430 Uttam Kumaran: Now that you’ve seen it, now that you’ve seen it part-time.
107 00:41:15.850 ⇒ 00:41:20.720 Uttam Kumaran: Do you feel like you’re interested in coming on full-time and ripping through this?
108 00:41:21.000 ⇒ 00:41:21.550 Uttam Kumaran: Like, huh.
109 00:41:21.550 ⇒ 00:41:28.809 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean, I’m… yes, the work is exciting, the… I like the people I’m working with, you know what I mean? Like, there’s a lot that I’m like, this…
110 00:41:28.940 ⇒ 00:41:33.210 Samuel Roberts: Seems like a really exciting opportunity. The question for me becomes, like.
111 00:41:33.700 ⇒ 00:41:42.030 Samuel Roberts: obviously this guy. And just logistics, but we’re working on that anyway, like, that’s a whole other can of worms. And then…
112 00:41:42.030 ⇒ 00:41:46.860 Uttam Kumaran: Because that’s fundamentally what I need to know, is like, now that you’ve seen, sort of.
113 00:41:46.960 ⇒ 00:42:02.720 Uttam Kumaran: the leadership parts, you see the challenge of internal versus external. You also see how motivated we are to build an AI-native consultancy, which, ultimately, for smart engineers, that is the real draw, like.
114 00:42:03.140 ⇒ 00:42:09.260 Uttam Kumaran: I could go get anybody to come just be, like, a glorified PM, but that’s not what this…
115 00:42:09.740 ⇒ 00:42:11.180 Uttam Kumaran: Person needs to be.
116 00:42:11.180 ⇒ 00:42:11.630 Samuel Roberts: No.
117 00:42:11.630 ⇒ 00:42:16.370 Uttam Kumaran: We need to have an eye for, like, How to literally… length.
118 00:42:16.660 ⇒ 00:42:22.289 Uttam Kumaran: Literally, like, like a disease from the inside, AI the whole company. Right.
119 00:42:22.290 ⇒ 00:42:22.860 Samuel Roberts: Right.
120 00:42:22.860 ⇒ 00:42:42.240 Uttam Kumaran: And so you have… so that’s why I think, you know, I love your background and what you’ve seen, because you know, kind of, like, all those pieces, but that’s… it’s a unique role where I can’t get, like, a Casey or a Mustafa to go do that. Yeah. I also can’t just get, like, a random engineer to go do that, because it’ll still always come back to me.
121 00:42:42.740 ⇒ 00:42:43.340 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
122 00:42:43.490 ⇒ 00:42:49.899 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and so this person has to have a lot of agency and… and kind of understand both of those, but that’s, like.
123 00:42:50.140 ⇒ 00:42:57.669 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what’s most crucial to me, is that, like, that is still fundamentally interesting for you to take on.
124 00:42:58.230 ⇒ 00:43:03.560 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and then we can talk about, okay, what’s the… what is the path towards that, you know.
125 00:43:03.560 ⇒ 00:43:09.240 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that actually is probably… that actually makes sense, because I feel like… I’m probably…
126 00:43:10.340 ⇒ 00:43:16.550 Samuel Roberts: I don’t want to say holding back, but I’m definitely a little less, like, What’s the word? Like…
127 00:43:17.660 ⇒ 00:43:23.410 Samuel Roberts: I’m… at this point, just being, like, a month in and being, like, part-time, I was not necessarily comfortable being, like.
128 00:43:23.820 ⇒ 00:43:24.870 Uttam Kumaran: I can tell.
129 00:43:24.870 ⇒ 00:43:30.160 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, does that make… okay, I’m just like… and there are times when I’m like, even with that interlude thing, like, I just didn’t want to jump on that call as the guy.
130 00:43:30.160 ⇒ 00:43:34.439 Uttam Kumaran: No, but I don’t mind either way, but I will say, like.
131 00:43:34.570 ⇒ 00:43:47.839 Uttam Kumaran: what you’ll find about me is that for people that, like, I’m trying to prop into these, like, leadership positions, ownership over decision making and opinions is really, really important, because.
132 00:43:47.840 ⇒ 00:43:48.520 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
133 00:43:48.520 ⇒ 00:43:51.220 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna start to switch to, what do you think?
134 00:43:51.340 ⇒ 00:44:01.470 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m just not gonna say my… because my opinion, of course, like, will… like, people will just follow it blindly, or… you know the drill, and so I… I want to build a crew
135 00:44:01.590 ⇒ 00:44:19.129 Uttam Kumaran: especially on the engineering side of, like, what do you think, what do you think, what do you think? And then finally, here’s what I think, but also, here’s how I can help you accomplish whatever it is. Yeah. But I need that, right? I think we have that in Awash. We’re gonna see if we have that in Trey on the product analytics side. Certainly, I think on the AI side.
136 00:44:19.620 ⇒ 00:44:38.430 Uttam Kumaran: it’s… it’s tough, because I can either get someone to do the internal stuff, but again, like, it’s such a balance that I need someone who really understands this whole piece, and has the capability to learn new things in AI, right? And that’s something that I think both of us have, and both of us, that’s, like, a fundamental excitement.
137 00:44:38.530 ⇒ 00:44:43.159 Uttam Kumaran: You know, that we both have, and that’s why I think, like, you’re really, really perfect for this.
138 00:44:43.360 ⇒ 00:44:53.919 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I definitely feel that, because I definitely feel, like, the excitement about some of the stuff, even, like, you know, I’m just, like, watching videos at night, and I’m just like, oh, I can… I can make use of this now. It’s not just me watching these cool things and being like.
139 00:44:53.920 ⇒ 00:44:54.469 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yes.
140 00:44:54.470 ⇒ 00:45:07.449 Samuel Roberts: someday kind of do that. Oh, no, there’s… yeah, exactly. And I feel that, and I… yeah, okay. There’s definitely, and maybe this, like, whatever, however we figure out, like, you know, the ramping into it, like.
141 00:45:08.130 ⇒ 00:45:08.990 Samuel Roberts: that…
142 00:45:09.540 ⇒ 00:45:19.339 Samuel Roberts: I don’t want to say discomfort, or that just, like, uncertainty, where I’m, like, still new, and still getting my feet in, and don’t want to, like, step on too many toes early on, because I don’t want to, like.
143 00:45:19.340 ⇒ 00:45:19.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, you should just…
144 00:45:19.940 ⇒ 00:45:20.380 Samuel Roberts: Bridget?
145 00:45:20.380 ⇒ 00:45:26.659 Uttam Kumaran: Dude, what I’m gonna say is, like, the biggest thing, there’s not other conversations happening about this stuff.
146 00:45:26.660 ⇒ 00:45:27.399 Samuel Roberts: That’s fair, that’s fair.
147 00:45:27.400 ⇒ 00:45:35.989 Uttam Kumaran: there isn’t, right? So if you’re like, oh, I wonder if I’m not getting looped in, you’re not. Meaning there’s no other, there’s no other conversation to loop you into, right?
148 00:45:35.990 ⇒ 00:45:36.790 Samuel Roberts: Fair, that’s fair.
149 00:45:36.790 ⇒ 00:45:49.759 Uttam Kumaran: every… every AI conversation I have is now with this… the crew. I’m not, like, there’s no other place to do it. So, like, that’s… that’s the thing, is, like, I’m looking for people to come in and have an opinion and take over.
150 00:45:50.040 ⇒ 00:45:55.470 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Because that is… I’m much more biased towards action than I am biased towards getting it perfect.
151 00:45:55.930 ⇒ 00:45:57.499 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, that’s a good.
152 00:45:57.500 ⇒ 00:45:59.910 Uttam Kumaran: Our only competitive advantage is speed.
153 00:46:00.050 ⇒ 00:46:04.050 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not gonna get it right. I know that, I don’t mind that, you know.
154 00:46:04.050 ⇒ 00:46:09.509 Samuel Roberts: That’s good, that’s a good attitude, because, yeah, especially with, like, stuff that’s, like, you know, you want to be on the cutting edge, you want to be using the new stuff, you want to be.
155 00:46:09.510 ⇒ 00:46:10.010 Uttam Kumaran: Testing it.
156 00:46:10.010 ⇒ 00:46:17.470 Samuel Roberts: and seeing how it works internally, and how to apply that, you know, not just to our workflows, but to, like, future client projects and all that stuff.
157 00:46:17.470 ⇒ 00:46:23.800 Uttam Kumaran: But I also want to, you know, for me, it’s like, even with… I want to talk, like, kind of, once you start to see the whole part of the business.
158 00:46:23.810 ⇒ 00:46:38.090 Uttam Kumaran: what you’ll have in me is you’ll have someone who’s like, okay, where can we… how does this really go affect the bottom line of the business? How do we… what does it really, truly mean philosophically, to be, like, a really AI-native company, right? From the… from the first…
159 00:46:38.120 ⇒ 00:46:47.649 Uttam Kumaran: time someone interviews us, to their first day, week, month, from an individual, to a team, to the company, like, how do we… I want to have a partner
160 00:46:47.970 ⇒ 00:47:01.499 Uttam Kumaran: in you, it’s like, yo, let’s literally AI this whole company, like, let’s engineer the entire business, you know? That’s something that I don’t have right now, like, I’m doing that all… I’m, like, speaking to a mayor and figuring it out.
161 00:47:01.500 ⇒ 00:47:02.610 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
162 00:47:02.610 ⇒ 00:47:04.289 Uttam Kumaran: Because nobody can kind of grasp
163 00:47:04.960 ⇒ 00:47:13.980 Uttam Kumaran: nobody can kind of see that, like, vision, you know? Yeah. Or, like, or work with me to think bigger, but then also say, okay, here’s what we need to do today.
164 00:47:14.380 ⇒ 00:47:16.519 Uttam Kumaran: To, like, start our way there, you know?
165 00:47:16.770 ⇒ 00:47:17.430 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
166 00:47:17.700 ⇒ 00:47:19.219 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I…
167 00:47:19.700 ⇒ 00:47:32.929 Samuel Roberts: it’s interesting, because I’ve gone back and forth in my head over the last few years, even, as I’m, like, figuring out what my next, like, opportunity, my next role is. Like, I’ve done the startup thing a bunch, and I got sucked into another startup in London when I wasn’t looking for it, kind of thing, but, like.
168 00:47:33.050 ⇒ 00:47:41.640 Samuel Roberts: I don’t just want a regular… you know, this is exactly, like, this is a good balance where I’m not in your position, necessarily.
169 00:47:42.000 ⇒ 00:47:44.499 Samuel Roberts: But I’m not just, you know.
170 00:47:44.770 ⇒ 00:47:47.619 Samuel Roberts: an engineer, an engineering lead somewhere that’s, like, less…
171 00:47:49.490 ⇒ 00:47:51.359 Samuel Roberts: another word I’m trying to play with here, like.
172 00:47:51.360 ⇒ 00:47:55.190 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like, you come in as just, like, a tech lead on a front end, and it’s like…
173 00:47:55.190 ⇒ 00:47:56.469 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, exactly, that’s like…
174 00:47:56.470 ⇒ 00:48:00.719 Uttam Kumaran: It’s also, like, this is not a startup, in that, like, we don’t have, like.
175 00:48:01.080 ⇒ 00:48:04.500 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not, like, the dream is actually so accomplishable.
176 00:48:04.750 ⇒ 00:48:12.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s actually, everything in front of us in the backlog are all things that we can get. There’s nothing, like, impossible.
177 00:48:12.900 ⇒ 00:48:24.889 Uttam Kumaran: there’s nothing like, oh, we need to get to a million users. Like, we have reliable sales, we have clients. In fact, the only thing we don’t have is people with more opinions in the business.
178 00:48:24.890 ⇒ 00:48:26.210 Samuel Roberts: That’s, that’s…
179 00:48:26.210 ⇒ 00:48:31.730 Uttam Kumaran: I’m the only person, right? Robert and I, this is why we’re… right now, we’re bringing on, like.
180 00:48:31.850 ⇒ 00:48:38.520 Uttam Kumaran: And again, I also… we need to build, like, a class of… and a camaraderie in that part of.
181 00:48:38.520 ⇒ 00:48:38.860 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
182 00:48:38.860 ⇒ 00:48:54.160 Uttam Kumaran: strategy execution part of the business, where I’m looking for people like you who are like, hey, we’re not having enough conversation about this. I’m like, then let’s start talking about what can we do? Add me to some meeting, go for it. It’s so much freedom. I think what I’m looking for is less of the…
183 00:48:54.290 ⇒ 00:48:58.819 Uttam Kumaran: people that want to plug in and develop, but I’m like, the person who’s gonna hire those people.
184 00:48:58.820 ⇒ 00:49:01.530 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Give them the platform to succeed.
185 00:49:01.560 ⇒ 00:49:04.119 Uttam Kumaran: And then, but also, you’re not on the hook for, like.
186 00:49:04.240 ⇒ 00:49:11.950 Uttam Kumaran: how are we gonna get to $10 million? Right, right, exactly, yes. I’m gonna… I have the… I have the path towards that.
187 00:49:12.050 ⇒ 00:49:22.790 Uttam Kumaran: What I’m looking for is a partner on this AI thing, which is the biggest… this is really, like, the most unique opportunity I think we have as technologists right now.
188 00:49:22.850 ⇒ 00:49:39.780 Uttam Kumaran: And a clear use case, a series of use cases in the business alone, you know? And then now we’re also doing this for clients, right? So, all the things that you’re seeing us do for Interlude, that we’re doing for default, we did for ourselves. Like, we learned Clay because I was… we were using Clay.
189 00:49:39.780 ⇒ 00:49:40.400 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.
190 00:49:40.400 ⇒ 00:49:47.790 Uttam Kumaran: We learned browser-based because we were using browser-based for stuff. So that’s, like, the vicious cycle here, you know?
191 00:49:47.900 ⇒ 00:50:03.390 Uttam Kumaran: But I also think, like, look, this is one role. Eventually, like, as the company grows, there will be, like, a… you can tell there’s, like, a more internal aspect, the more commercial aspect. This can all change and diverge over time, but for now, this has to be just one person.
192 00:50:03.390 ⇒ 00:50:09.719 Uttam Kumaran: Totally. Like, because the internal stuff is going to continue to be a part of the overall time.
193 00:50:09.760 ⇒ 00:50:18.569 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s important for someone to retain both of those in their brain. And I’m also… I’ve only been doing all this AI stuff with, like, a fifth of my, like, time.
194 00:50:19.140 ⇒ 00:50:23.590 Uttam Kumaran: Or less, right? So it really needs someone who’s, like, thinking about this.
195 00:50:23.730 ⇒ 00:50:26.349 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and spending time on it.
196 00:50:27.540 ⇒ 00:50:37.549 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean, that… I’m… it’s… yeah, I… I’m down, basically, like, is what I’m trying to say. Like, I… I… I think there’s, like, definitely been a hesitation for the first, like, month or so, because I’m like.
197 00:50:37.690 ⇒ 00:50:41.829 Samuel Roberts: But if that’s, you know, if you’re, you know, you’re kind of giving me the green light to just, like.
198 00:50:41.830 ⇒ 00:50:42.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
199 00:50:42.560 ⇒ 00:50:49.180 Samuel Roberts: do that? Like, I… yeah, let’s… I’m… I’m down. You know, I think I need to switch, because I’m…
200 00:50:49.460 ⇒ 00:51:04.089 Samuel Roberts: like I said, that, like, employee versus founder mentality, like, I’m kind of, like, straddling this weird, like, I don’t know when to voice my opinion so much, and, like, I’m just, like, there’s a… there’s a personal kind of, like, oh, I don’t want to be that guy, I don’t want to not be that guy.
201 00:51:04.090 ⇒ 00:51:04.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I got my.
202 00:51:04.560 ⇒ 00:51:14.540 Samuel Roberts: I don’t want to, like, step on toes. Like, but at the same time, like, if I’m being told to do that, like, I can just be, like, I’ll be the AI team founder mode guy, you know what I mean? Like, I can do whatever. And that’s…
203 00:51:14.540 ⇒ 00:51:16.529 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a great way of thinking about it, because
204 00:51:16.620 ⇒ 00:51:27.919 Uttam Kumaran: you’ll see that also my time is gonna go to this… like, I’m just gonna spend time with the most highest-leveraged people in the company, which are… which are gonna be the engineering leaders.
205 00:51:27.920 ⇒ 00:51:37.989 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s gonna be… we’re gonna… we’re gonna bring on someone to leave, go to market. Okay. And then we’re also… there’s gonna be ICs that I’m also gonna go spend time with, but that’s it.
206 00:51:37.990 ⇒ 00:51:55.499 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, you’ll get as much time with me, but again, I’m just gonna say make the decision. Cool. We have an opinion. We can talk through it, I don’t mind, but what I don’t want to see is stuff without comments. What I don’t want to see is, like, I’m still the most… the one talking the most.
207 00:51:56.210 ⇒ 00:52:16.070 Uttam Kumaran: highest opinion, like, that’s really challenging, because we’ll never build people who, like, feel like this is their company, you know? Yeah. But I want to say, like, you have… you have my commitment, you know, and so that’s, like, what I feel like I can do, and I want to lean on you, you know, in this next phase. Yeah. Especially with AI, where it’s, again, like.
208 00:52:16.350 ⇒ 00:52:20.450 Uttam Kumaran: I think there’s only a couple… like, probably me and you are the only people that could see at…
209 00:52:20.580 ⇒ 00:52:25.459 Uttam Kumaran: a world in which we can execute all these things. There’s no one else in the company to do that, you know?
210 00:52:25.690 ⇒ 00:52:32.650 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and honestly, like, I… I’m not even sure if I’m there yet, because, like, you have such a better understanding of the company and, like, the…
211 00:52:33.040 ⇒ 00:52:33.920 Samuel Roberts: you know, intended…
212 00:52:33.920 ⇒ 00:52:39.409 Uttam Kumaran: But if you’re like, hey, can we spend an hour talking about sales? And I’ll just come here, I’ll tell you every single part about.
213 00:52:39.410 ⇒ 00:52:41.359 Samuel Roberts: No, that’s exactly, that’s exactly it.
214 00:52:41.360 ⇒ 00:52:44.909 Uttam Kumaran: As you can tell, like, that starts with you telling me.
215 00:52:44.910 ⇒ 00:52:45.880 Samuel Roberts: No, you’re absolutely right.
216 00:52:45.880 ⇒ 00:52:51.940 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s talk about sales today. I’ll do… I’ll talk to you about… I’ll tell you every single part of everything. That’s perfect, yeah.
217 00:52:51.940 ⇒ 00:52:57.060 Samuel Roberts: No, I think… I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I’ve been… I’ve been… I don’t want to say I’m, like, holding back, but it’s definitely been a, like.
218 00:52:57.270 ⇒ 00:53:01.479 Samuel Roberts: What am I… yeah, so I’m… I’m… Yeah, alright.
219 00:53:01.480 ⇒ 00:53:11.129 Uttam Kumaran: I hope we can sort of both satisfy the itch of, like, getting back into something where you have, like, that ownership mentality, but also a situation where you’re not, like.
220 00:53:11.270 ⇒ 00:53:27.470 Uttam Kumaran: also having to risk and take on, like, stuff out of scope, right? That’s what I’m… I’m doing, and my time needs to go more to that stuff that everybody hates doing, and I want to hand… and unfortunately, as we’re all reading this, like, great CAO book.
221 00:53:27.470 ⇒ 00:53:29.060 Samuel Roberts: I need to hand off.
222 00:53:29.270 ⇒ 00:53:34.039 Uttam Kumaran: like, a lot of the delivery, like, as much as… and it’s really painful.
223 00:53:34.040 ⇒ 00:53:34.769 Samuel Roberts: I’m like…
224 00:53:34.990 ⇒ 00:53:40.149 Uttam Kumaran: And… but this is, like, actually what needs to happen, and I need…
225 00:53:40.390 ⇒ 00:53:46.009 Uttam Kumaran: the folks in these lead roles to take that, like, there’s no way we get to the next spot.
226 00:53:46.010 ⇒ 00:53:51.300 Samuel Roberts: I’ve been in, obviously, like, a different position with a hair care company, and just, like, that ability to, like.
227 00:53:51.480 ⇒ 00:53:53.249 Samuel Roberts: Not even just delegate, but just, like.
228 00:53:53.250 ⇒ 00:53:56.269 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m not… I don’t… I’m not really happy about this, but…
229 00:53:56.270 ⇒ 00:54:13.529 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, exactly, it’s hard as, like, it’s obviously, like, you got into this because you like doing certain things, and, like, you know, you’re excited about certain things, and then passing that off, or, like, not being involved, or, you know, but, like, that’s… your job is to step back into a higher level, and deal with the stuff, and, you know, be involved when needed.
230 00:54:13.530 ⇒ 00:54:17.340 Uttam Kumaran: guess what? I’m gonna go get us more money, and then I’m gonna get you more engineers.
231 00:54:17.340 ⇒ 00:54:18.760 Samuel Roberts: That’s exactly, that’s exactly it.
232 00:54:18.760 ⇒ 00:54:20.849 Uttam Kumaran: stage somewhere, right? I’m gonna do what I can do.
233 00:54:20.850 ⇒ 00:54:25.910 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, it’s definitely, like, creating that, you know, It… yeah, no, 100%, 100%.
234 00:54:26.480 ⇒ 00:54:27.070 Samuel Roberts: I’m with you there.
235 00:54:27.070 ⇒ 00:54:33.809 Uttam Kumaran: So then tell me kind of, like, what you’re thinking about, like, time-wise. Like, I know you’re… you got the kiddo now.
236 00:54:33.810 ⇒ 00:54:34.330 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
237 00:54:34.330 ⇒ 00:54:37.429 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me, like, what you think about 20 hours versus…
238 00:54:37.550 ⇒ 00:54:40.619 Uttam Kumaran: Going up, or, like, how do you… how are you thinking about stuff?
239 00:54:40.940 ⇒ 00:54:46.140 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean… You know, my wife’s still on maternity leave till the end of the month.
240 00:54:46.310 ⇒ 00:54:49.489 Samuel Roberts: So things aren’t, like, the most…
241 00:54:49.770 ⇒ 00:55:04.620 Samuel Roberts: crazy yet, like, when it’s gonna hit… so she’s a nurse, she works nights Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday nights, which means I’m on baby duty at night, and then a chunk of it during the day until we sort out, like, you know, daycare.
242 00:55:04.620 ⇒ 00:55:07.949 Uttam Kumaran: You can also tell, we’re not like a… we’re not a meeting-heavy company.
243 00:55:07.950 ⇒ 00:55:27.869 Samuel Roberts: Oh, no, I… yeah, and honestly, like, I… you know, I was sitting here, like, I was chatting with… I was just, like, voice dictating to ChatGPT, like, I can make it work, and honestly, as he gets bigger, this is… he is so needy right now, in a way that, like, I can’t sit him somewhere. He can’t sit up, you know? But also, like, we’re… we’re gonna have to sort that stuff out anyway. Like, that’s not even…
244 00:55:27.870 ⇒ 00:55:28.310 Uttam Kumaran: And, like.
245 00:55:28.310 ⇒ 00:55:33.479 Samuel Roberts: as big a consideration as I’m probably making it seem, it’s just… it’s half my life right now, is, like, visibility, and then.
246 00:55:33.480 ⇒ 00:55:33.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
247 00:55:34.110 ⇒ 00:55:34.640 Samuel Roberts: So.
248 00:55:34.640 ⇒ 00:55:36.959 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I also want to make the commitment that, like.
249 00:55:37.140 ⇒ 00:55:44.649 Uttam Kumaran: I… for me, I want to know that, okay, Sam is the one, and I’m not gonna think about, is Sam the one?
250 00:55:44.650 ⇒ 00:55:46.350 Samuel Roberts: all I’m gonna think about is, like.
251 00:55:46.350 ⇒ 00:55:49.159 Uttam Kumaran: at what time, like, can I keep… can I, like.
252 00:55:49.270 ⇒ 00:55:57.310 Uttam Kumaran: keep giving you more stuff, and you feel comfortable, right? Like, I want to make the commitment to you that we’re here for you, and that…
253 00:55:57.390 ⇒ 00:56:10.629 Uttam Kumaran: you can start taking on more or less. I think even in the 20 hours that you’ve had, look, you’ve shaved off my involvement in, like, the AI platform stuff. You’re gonna start being more involved in client work.
254 00:56:10.650 ⇒ 00:56:22.069 Uttam Kumaran: I can now direct marketing to you to start to think about how they want to turn things into case studies. So, you’ve already taken off a lot of my time, so I just want to be like, okay, there is a path towards that, and
255 00:56:22.690 ⇒ 00:56:25.539 Uttam Kumaran: That, like, okay, we can make that happen longer term.
256 00:56:25.540 ⇒ 00:56:27.399 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I’m…
257 00:56:27.500 ⇒ 00:56:37.460 Samuel Roberts: you know, as quickly or as slowly as you need to ramp that up, or, you know, I probably can make most things work. Like I said, like.
258 00:56:37.460 ⇒ 00:56:46.510 Samuel Roberts: he’s a factor I have to figure in anyway, but that was, like, a known thing 9, 10, 11 months ago, that we were like, alright, this is how we’re, you know… So I’m not, like, that concerned, it’s just, like.
259 00:56:46.510 ⇒ 00:57:01.349 Samuel Roberts: the… the three months of, like, maternity leave have been a little more, you know, different than the rest of the time will be, I imagine. But yeah, I’m… I’m down, like, whatever it… whatever it needs to look like. I think also just, like, this conversation and a little bit of the, like, okay, I’ll start.
260 00:57:01.370 ⇒ 00:57:02.330 Samuel Roberts: voicing my…
261 00:57:02.330 ⇒ 00:57:08.000 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, but also, like, I want you to think… I want you to also think about what you need from me, like, if you want to talk…
262 00:57:08.150 ⇒ 00:57:11.780 Uttam Kumaran: If you want to talk every day, if you want to talk every… whatever.
263 00:57:11.780 ⇒ 00:57:12.270 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
264 00:57:12.270 ⇒ 00:57:17.690 Uttam Kumaran: lead, you set up time, and I’ll express this to the leads today as well, that, like.
265 00:57:17.850 ⇒ 00:57:36.899 Uttam Kumaran: it’s up to you here to… to grab my time and to be like, what do you need? Otherwise, I’m… I’m gonna… I need to free up as much as possible, so you’re gonna see me just get out of everything, but I want to be available to the people with the highest leverage. Yeah. And so one is, like, you have as much or as little as my time as you need.
266 00:57:36.900 ⇒ 00:57:40.480 Uttam Kumaran: I think second is, like, I would love to sign probably a new contract.
267 00:57:40.480 ⇒ 00:57:45.790 Uttam Kumaran: I would love to at least give you, like, a max… give you, like, hey, you can work up to 40 hours. You can…
268 00:57:45.840 ⇒ 00:58:04.959 Uttam Kumaran: arrange that up and down as you want, and ideally, what we can do is, for the folks that are full-time and are typically putting in 40 hours more, we then can move to, like, a fixed amount. So, for… I know right now, we’re at, like, sort of the hourly amount, but I would love to just, like, make that a 40-hour cap.
269 00:58:05.120 ⇒ 00:58:13.049 Uttam Kumaran: I also know, you know, you kind of gave me a little bit of, like, what your rate could look like in the event you have… you’re open to 40 hours, so maybe we.
270 00:58:13.050 ⇒ 00:58:13.800 Samuel Roberts: yet.
271 00:58:14.310 ⇒ 00:58:18.510 Uttam Kumaran: something kind of towards that, so I kind of see it as another two steps, which is, one.
272 00:58:18.510 ⇒ 00:58:18.850 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
273 00:58:18.850 ⇒ 00:58:29.640 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to give you, like, you have 40 hours, you can use that however you want, as little, and then the next step is, whenever you’re comfortable, we can lock in, like, a fixed monthly contract so that at least you have some
274 00:58:29.890 ⇒ 00:58:34.530 Uttam Kumaran: guarantee on your side, and that could be whenever.
275 00:58:34.530 ⇒ 00:58:35.140 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
276 00:58:35.520 ⇒ 00:58:36.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
277 00:58:36.390 ⇒ 00:58:42.000 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that sounds great. I mean, yeah, that’s… even the flexibility of, like, getting up to 40 down… like, that’s… that’s…
278 00:58:42.610 ⇒ 00:58:43.400 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.
279 00:58:43.400 ⇒ 00:58:49.319 Samuel Roberts: I’ll see as I jump in, and, like, how much I really need, like, time-wise, and what’s taking up time, and get a better sense of that, because I have been, like.
280 00:58:49.730 ⇒ 00:58:52.159 Samuel Roberts: Watching that a little closer than…
281 00:58:52.430 ⇒ 00:58:57.730 Samuel Roberts: I would like to be, if that makes sense? You know what I mean? Like, I don’t want… I’m like, oh, I’m getting close, so it’s like, okay, I’m guessing.
282 00:58:57.730 ⇒ 00:59:02.959 Uttam Kumaran: No, and I want to make sure that you have the time to do whatever you need, and then, yeah, we can kind of ramp.
283 00:59:02.960 ⇒ 00:59:04.309 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, if that works, I think that’s.
284 00:59:04.310 ⇒ 00:59:08.690 Uttam Kumaran: And then also, like, look, anyone else new we decide to bring on, I want to make that decision.
285 00:59:08.940 ⇒ 00:59:15.270 Uttam Kumaran: with you, right? Totally. So, this also, for every single one of these roles, the other thing I’m gonna relinquish is, like.
286 00:59:15.500 ⇒ 00:59:20.910 Uttam Kumaran: people decisions for each of those functional places. I don’t want to bring on another AI person without
287 00:59:21.120 ⇒ 00:59:37.170 Uttam Kumaran: us agreeing that that person is level up, right? And so to know that you’re there for that, because as you know, I’m, like, I still recruit, like, tons and tons, but all those people, like, I… I don’t have a partner to make that decision with, functionally. Me and Robert will…
288 00:59:37.170 ⇒ 00:59:45.000 Uttam Kumaran: one, it will be, like, this person, we need this person, but now that we have these functional leads, I want to start leaning on you guys, not only for recruitment, but also
289 00:59:45.040 ⇒ 00:59:53.680 Uttam Kumaran: for us to start thinking about retention. So you can see, there’s just, like, all these things that, as long as I know that you’re locked in, want to give you the freedom to do that, and then…
290 00:59:54.410 ⇒ 01:00:08.379 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I’m fine, like, I think we… I’m just lucky that we can… we have someone like you, especially as you’re… as you’re… you’re with Kiddo, and you still are open to dedicating time, so whatever commitment we can make.
291 01:00:08.670 ⇒ 01:00:09.090 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
292 01:00:09.090 ⇒ 01:00:09.530 Uttam Kumaran: active.
293 01:00:09.530 ⇒ 01:00:13.920 Samuel Roberts: I think, yeah, I think that works, because like I said, you know, we’re working, figuring it out, but, like.
294 01:00:14.380 ⇒ 01:00:18.459 Samuel Roberts: I think that sounds good, the commitment sounds like more of what I need than anything, and so…
295 01:00:18.460 ⇒ 01:00:18.780 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
296 01:00:18.780 ⇒ 01:00:20.960 Samuel Roberts: You know, exact hours or, you know.
297 01:00:20.960 ⇒ 01:00:24.059 Uttam Kumaran: flexible, so that sounds cool. Okay. Okay.
298 01:00:24.060 ⇒ 01:00:25.710 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, true.
299 01:00:26.070 ⇒ 01:00:29.980 Uttam Kumaran: So then you tell me, maybe we’ll talk about Enge leads,
300 01:00:30.100 ⇒ 01:00:34.449 Uttam Kumaran: Today, I guess, like, did you want to talk at all about, like, OKR stuff?
301 01:00:34.450 ⇒ 01:00:37.589 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I… yeah, so I hadn’t taken a look at that yet. It was one of those things.
302 01:00:37.590 ⇒ 01:00:38.180 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s fine.
303 01:00:38.180 ⇒ 01:00:44.439 Samuel Roberts: there, and same thing with, like, the monthly stuff. I, like, had, like, taken, like, a look at and then didn’t really dive into, but I did.
304 01:00:44.440 ⇒ 01:00:45.170 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.
305 01:00:45.170 ⇒ 01:00:52.349 Samuel Roberts: Just throw some… where am I? There’s so many monitors open, because I got, like, things bouncing around. What do we got here? And of course, I lost it.
306 01:00:54.560 ⇒ 01:00:58.010 Samuel Roberts: Somewhere over here is… but maybe it’s not.
307 01:00:59.080 ⇒ 01:01:01.429 Samuel Roberts: Alright, well, I threw a couple things in.
308 01:01:01.430 ⇒ 01:01:01.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
309 01:01:01.810 ⇒ 01:01:02.840 Samuel Roberts: I basically took, like.
310 01:01:02.990 ⇒ 01:01:19.180 Samuel Roberts: what was there, and was just like, let’s expand to, like, what are these general objectives, because I wasn’t 100% sure. I mean, I have a pretty good sense, I feel like it made total sense when I was like, oh, of course, as ChatGPT’s, like, grouping things, I’m like, that… I should have just been able to think of that on my own, but where the hell is that?
311 01:01:20.160 ⇒ 01:01:22.450 Uttam Kumaran: Peter Search for Management Operations.
312 01:01:22.450 ⇒ 01:01:26.519 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I just… I knew I had it open, but I’ve got, like, 3 virtual monitors going.
313 01:01:27.940 ⇒ 01:01:31.240 Samuel Roberts: because I have, like, the platform stuff going, I was taught in.
314 01:01:31.240 ⇒ 01:01:31.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
315 01:01:31.750 ⇒ 01:01:35.610 Samuel Roberts: Mustafa, but something else, and of course… and I also can’t type very well. Let me put them down first.
316 01:01:35.870 ⇒ 01:01:36.690 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
317 01:01:41.680 ⇒ 01:01:42.430 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
318 01:01:43.110 ⇒ 01:01:59.550 Samuel Roberts: Ugh. So, what are, what are you using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for using, for, using, like, for, using, like, for using.
319 01:01:59.550 ⇒ 01:01:59.990 Uttam Kumaran: Oh my god.
320 01:01:59.990 ⇒ 01:02:10.260 Samuel Roberts: for, like, using, like, for using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for using, like, for, using, like, for, using.
321 01:02:29.790 ⇒ 01:02:54.760 Uttam Kumaran: Using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using, like, for, using.
322 01:02:54.760 ⇒ 01:03:01.590 Samuel Roberts: Like, for using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for using, like, for, using, like, for using, like.
323 01:03:02.930 ⇒ 01:03:04.110 Samuel Roberts: Is that better?
324 01:03:04.320 ⇒ 01:03:05.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
325 01:03:05.260 ⇒ 01:03:07.730 Samuel Roberts: That is insane. So, something about…
326 01:03:08.080 ⇒ 01:03:09.790 Samuel Roberts: Hold on, let me get back on here somehow.
327 01:03:10.230 ⇒ 01:03:15.760 Samuel Roberts: So what I tend to do… this is a little more detail than you need, but I tend to have these headphones on, right?
328 01:03:16.250 ⇒ 01:03:21.109 Samuel Roberts: But… I use the microphone and the webcam so that I have better audio over the headphones.
329 01:03:21.380 ⇒ 01:03:21.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
330 01:03:21.800 ⇒ 01:03:27.059 Samuel Roberts: something about this mic and this Mac that happens…
331 01:03:27.660 ⇒ 01:03:29.259 Samuel Roberts: Occasionally. Like, I’ve been on a bunch of.
332 01:03:29.260 ⇒ 01:03:31.670 Uttam Kumaran: It’s so weird, maybe it’s the audio service or something, huh?
333 01:03:31.670 ⇒ 01:03:34.000 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I don’t… I’ve had to, like, restart it, I’ve had to reset.
334 01:03:34.000 ⇒ 01:03:37.500 Uttam Kumaran: Are you… are you… is it going through, or are you using, like, a virtual microphone?
335 01:03:37.750 ⇒ 01:03:43.169 Samuel Roberts: It’s just… it’s the mic on the webcam. Oh, I think I know, there’s some… sometimes it doesn’t even work, like, on,
336 01:03:43.950 ⇒ 01:03:49.700 Samuel Roberts: FaceTime, when I try to use it, it just doesn’t pick it up half the time. It’s… annoying.
337 01:03:49.830 ⇒ 01:03:53.040 Samuel Roberts: But anyway, now I’m like, as long as I’m not looping it, now we can at least…
338 01:03:53.040 ⇒ 01:03:55.920 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry, you’re asking me, like, what we were using for…
339 01:03:56.070 ⇒ 01:04:08.429 Samuel Roberts: Oh, yeah, I was saying… so I was… I opened up ChatGPT, with my Brainforge email. I wasn’t sure, like… I have access to the API, I wasn’t sure if there’s, like, a place that you… like, which one do you… what do you use when you’re doing it? Do you just use, like.
340 01:04:08.430 ⇒ 01:04:09.259 Uttam Kumaran: Catch a few spots.
341 01:04:09.260 ⇒ 01:04:09.859 Samuel Roberts: And each one of ours.
342 01:04:09.860 ⇒ 01:04:12.490 Uttam Kumaran: I had, like, a bunch of projects.
343 01:04:12.830 ⇒ 01:04:16.519 Uttam Kumaran: So, like, I’ll show you, kind of, like, what my…
344 01:04:16.520 ⇒ 01:04:17.080 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
345 01:04:17.080 ⇒ 01:04:23.009 Uttam Kumaran: This is, like, what my ChatGPT looks like. So I have all these projects.
346 01:04:23.010 ⇒ 01:04:24.480 Samuel Roberts: Oh, right, right, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
347 01:04:24.480 ⇒ 01:04:28.669 Uttam Kumaran: Projects are, like, have, for example, CTO and end jobs leader.
348 01:04:28.670 ⇒ 01:04:29.340 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
349 01:04:29.340 ⇒ 01:04:34.549 Uttam Kumaran: So this is my CTO and NJOPS prop. I used our prompt writer.
350 01:04:34.550 ⇒ 01:04:35.529 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, okay, this is…
351 01:04:35.530 ⇒ 01:04:38.540 Uttam Kumaran: to create this, and then I have a bunch of these. So, like.
352 01:04:38.780 ⇒ 01:04:42.369 Uttam Kumaran: for example, if I’m… I was using the CTO and NDrops to, like.
353 01:04:42.700 ⇒ 01:04:46.480 Uttam Kumaran: get… I was asking for feedback on our Clockify dashboard, and I just…
354 01:04:47.020 ⇒ 01:04:49.380 Uttam Kumaran: I want it to give me feedback, right?
355 01:04:49.380 ⇒ 01:04:49.990 Samuel Roberts: Right.
356 01:04:49.990 ⇒ 01:04:58.220 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly, like, how are we going to do our meeting scoring system? I used it to give me the template for our bonuses and raise program.
357 01:04:58.420 ⇒ 01:04:59.640 Uttam Kumaran: So, Dak, I have a bunch of.
358 01:04:59.640 ⇒ 01:05:00.360 Samuel Roberts: Jeez. Yeah.
359 01:05:00.360 ⇒ 01:05:06.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and all these are in the prompt library, but if any of these are interesting, or if you’re like, hey, do you have a prompt for this? Let me know, like.
360 01:05:06.930 ⇒ 01:05:15.980 Samuel Roberts: I use this… I use it for everything, so… Because this is something I was even… honestly, like, since I haven’t, like, been… I mean, I’ve been working on the platform a little bit, but I haven’t, like, used it.
361 01:05:15.980 ⇒ 01:05:19.270 Uttam Kumaran: Well, my ask was, like, this should all end up in the platform.
362 01:05:19.270 ⇒ 01:05:20.539 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, that.
363 01:05:20.540 ⇒ 01:05:33.820 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, you should be able to use these, right? But, like, that’s the thing, yeah. So, the agents on the left should be… it should be agents or tools or whatever, but, like, we should make this all available to everybody, versus them having to go in and set up a project.
364 01:05:33.820 ⇒ 01:05:36.300 Samuel Roberts: 100%, because that was what I was then realizing was…
365 01:05:36.300 ⇒ 01:05:38.359 Uttam Kumaran: Projects are not shareable, so…
366 01:05:38.510 ⇒ 01:05:44.510 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I was realizing, like, I don’t even… I had to go and check the agents, because I’m like, is there an agent that does, like, you know.
367 01:05:44.510 ⇒ 01:05:47.389 Uttam Kumaran: So I haven’t had… anything we need, I have it, I’ve done it.
368 01:05:47.390 ⇒ 01:05:47.770 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
369 01:05:47.770 ⇒ 01:05:48.160 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
370 01:05:48.160 ⇒ 01:05:55.230 Samuel Roberts: But honestly, I was actually getting it set up a little bit with Copilot Kit, and I think it’ll be even easier to run, because we don’t have to lean on N8N, and it can all be there, but like…
371 01:05:55.230 ⇒ 01:05:55.650 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
372 01:05:55.650 ⇒ 01:06:04.679 Samuel Roberts: I got some moves there with the monorepo stuff that’ll be happening, but yeah, I was just throwing a few things in. It was basically, like, big… big buckets was, like.
373 01:06:05.080 ⇒ 01:06:06.230 Samuel Roberts: Engagement.
374 01:06:06.400 ⇒ 01:06:14.720 Samuel Roberts: Because I was, like, 3 of the things you had in there were, like, basically engagement. It… core business workflows, this is one that I was a little less hesitant, or, like, you had the map…
375 01:06:15.080 ⇒ 01:06:17.590 Samuel Roberts: non-AI SOPs.
376 01:06:18.210 ⇒ 01:06:25.680 Samuel Roberts: But then it was talking about workflows, and at first I was like, ChatGPT, you already have the SOPs, what are you talking about? But it’s talking about, like, less standard stuff, I think.
377 01:06:26.290 ⇒ 01:06:30.300 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm… I don’t know if I like it as much, but… Yeah, I don’t mind,
378 01:06:32.130 ⇒ 01:06:36.569 Uttam Kumaran: I would say these two are probably… we can consolidate to one.
379 01:06:37.280 ⇒ 01:06:39.620 Samuel Roberts: That’s… this is exactly… because, like, I…
380 01:06:39.620 ⇒ 01:06:49.820 Uttam Kumaran: Let’s keep… let’s keep yours, but probably the only thing I’m gonna say is document 100% of PM… sales…
381 01:06:49.820 ⇒ 01:06:50.840 Samuel Roberts: That’s perfect, okay, yeah.
382 01:06:50.840 ⇒ 01:06:51.770 Uttam Kumaran: Marketing.
383 01:06:52.290 ⇒ 01:06:59.479 Samuel Roberts: It was… it was pretty general, because it obviously didn’t… I… I was just… I opened up chat for a new account, like, and I was like, I realized I didn’t have a ton of,
384 01:07:00.030 ⇒ 01:07:05.179 Samuel Roberts: Anything to feed it. The only other thing was, like, the AI Leverage Index.
385 01:07:07.120 ⇒ 01:07:07.650 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that was it.
386 01:07:07.650 ⇒ 01:07:08.970 Samuel Roberts: there already.
387 01:07:08.970 ⇒ 01:07:19.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this was mainly, like, something, like, we create an index, which is, like, who’s using it, how often they’re using it, so I don’t care. I… I… the reason I put launch it is that
388 01:07:20.080 ⇒ 01:07:24.050 Uttam Kumaran: You just… you just come up with, like, what an index calculation is, and you just.
389 01:07:24.050 ⇒ 01:07:24.689 Samuel Roberts: That’s perfect.
390 01:07:24.690 ⇒ 01:07:25.560 Uttam Kumaran: logic.
391 01:07:26.000 ⇒ 01:07:31.219 Samuel Roberts: Perfect, I can do that. Because then the other thing was, like, I was… I just want to make sure I’m getting what you had in your mind out.
392 01:07:31.220 ⇒ 01:07:31.830 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
393 01:07:31.830 ⇒ 01:07:39.759 Samuel Roberts: but… because then it was just, like, demonstrate the impact, and I was trying to figure out other ways, because it had a few other things that I was like, this isn’t applicable, you know, it’s very general, but, like.
394 01:07:39.760 ⇒ 01:07:51.959 Uttam Kumaran: So, I think there’s two things. One is, like, we only have two months in the quarter, so a lot of these OPRs you’re gonna see on other stuff is just, like, establish. Like, just establish that the fact that we’re measuring.
395 01:07:52.090 ⇒ 01:07:55.609 Samuel Roberts: I don’t, I don’t actually… I think we can move this to Q4.
396 01:07:55.750 ⇒ 01:07:57.229 Samuel Roberts: That’s even better. Okay, perfect.
397 01:07:57.230 ⇒ 01:08:04.340 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Because if we… if we get, like… yeah, so that’s… that’s probably what I would say is, like, let’s move this to Q4. I’ll create… let’s leave it here for now, but…
398 01:08:04.340 ⇒ 01:08:05.039 Samuel Roberts: That’s fine, yeah.
399 01:08:05.040 ⇒ 01:08:06.290 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll create a Q4, and we can.
400 01:08:06.290 ⇒ 01:08:16.300 Samuel Roberts: Okay, yeah, because it was like, document, you know, get the team using it, and then demonstrate, and I was like, those seem like three general, like… Yeah. Yeah, I kind of wasn’t thinking of what part of the…
401 01:08:16.300 ⇒ 01:08:21.760 Uttam Kumaran: Usually, it’s like, look, if we can prove that… and the… so, this couple is one if we can prove that
402 01:08:22.640 ⇒ 01:08:25.399 Uttam Kumaran: If you could measure the fact that
403 01:08:25.779 ⇒ 01:08:38.890 Uttam Kumaran: everybody’s using the platform at least once per day, that will force you to do a bunch of things, like making sure we have tracking, getting them into a dashboard, right? So, then we can then do the next quarter stuff, right?
404 01:08:38.890 ⇒ 01:08:39.410 Samuel Roberts: 100%.
405 01:08:39.410 ⇒ 01:08:49.349 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly, launching an index just forces you to think through what is our AI leverage index? Can I come up with some scoring mechanism?
406 01:08:49.350 ⇒ 01:08:49.770 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
407 01:08:49.770 ⇒ 01:09:00.319 Uttam Kumaran: let’s just launch it. That… every week during Angelis, we can look at that, and then we can tweak it, right? So that’s fine. Identify top three workflows, like.
408 01:09:00.630 ⇒ 01:09:05.240 Uttam Kumaran: I would probably… just put this here, as well as Q4, because.
409 01:09:05.240 ⇒ 01:09:05.959 Samuel Roberts: That’s fine, yeah.
410 01:09:05.960 ⇒ 01:09:10.700 Uttam Kumaran: As long as you do this, I guarantee you, you’re gonna find a couple things that you’ll just fix.
411 01:09:10.700 ⇒ 01:09:26.829 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and that’s… what I liked about that one was it was, like, next phase automation, which is, like, every time we talk about, like, different levels of it, I want to be thinking, like, okay, here’s the platform, here’s people using it, here’s the tracking, but, like, how are we gonna then level those up over time? And I think…
412 01:09:26.830 ⇒ 01:09:32.020 Samuel Roberts: even just, like, as we dig into that, you’re absolutely right. Like, it captured in that document did a lot of stuff, I’m sure.
413 01:09:32.029 ⇒ 01:09:32.379 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
414 01:09:32.380 ⇒ 01:09:34.760 Samuel Roberts: so, but it is definitely, like.
415 01:09:34.760 ⇒ 01:09:44.670 Uttam Kumaran: Using the AI platform notion, one thing that I could add a section on is, like, how do we see, like, how do we talk about levels of automation?
416 01:09:44.670 ⇒ 01:09:45.060 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
417 01:09:45.060 ⇒ 01:09:47.380 Uttam Kumaran: So me and you could philosophize on and, like.
418 01:09:47.380 ⇒ 01:09:47.720 Samuel Roberts: Totally.
419 01:09:47.720 ⇒ 01:09:48.700 Uttam Kumaran: And put them there.
420 01:09:49.920 ⇒ 01:09:50.609 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
421 01:09:51.460 ⇒ 01:09:52.509 Samuel Roberts: That’s a good idea.
422 01:09:52.779 ⇒ 01:09:55.310 Samuel Roberts: Sorry, hold on, are you screaming back here, let me use this.
423 01:09:55.310 ⇒ 01:09:56.479 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, no problem.
424 01:09:59.550 ⇒ 01:10:01.580 Samuel Roberts: It’s okay, bud. Okay, alright.
425 01:10:04.100 ⇒ 01:10:07.079 Samuel Roberts: This, like, you know, zero to three month thing is just, like.
426 01:10:07.740 ⇒ 01:10:16.159 Samuel Roberts: I forget what one friend said, but he was, like, something… their pediatrician said something like, you know, they really need to cook for 3 more months, but it would literally kill the mother to do that.
427 01:10:16.510 ⇒ 01:10:17.840 Uttam Kumaran: So they’re just like…
428 01:10:17.840 ⇒ 01:10:18.799 Samuel Roberts: They’re potatoes, you know?
429 01:10:18.800 ⇒ 01:10:19.770 Uttam Kumaran: helpless.
430 01:10:19.770 ⇒ 01:10:26.000 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and like, he’s finally moving his neck on his own kind of thing, and I’m like, that’s great, but, you know, let’s keep moving here.
431 01:10:26.740 ⇒ 01:10:28.949 Samuel Roberts: I want a little talking thing more than anything.
432 01:10:28.950 ⇒ 01:10:30.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
433 01:10:30.850 ⇒ 01:10:32.599 Samuel Roberts: Anyway,
434 01:10:32.920 ⇒ 01:10:37.759 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think… I think you’re right. I mean, I just… I wasn’t sure how detailed to go with this. This is the other thing, like, I’m…
435 01:10:38.010 ⇒ 01:10:45.260 Uttam Kumaran: For me, for me, it’s just, like, are they measurable, and are they accomplishable? Okay. So you can see for, like.
436 01:10:45.390 ⇒ 01:10:57.169 Uttam Kumaran: engineering for a waste is way too much. Yeah, okay. So I… a lot of this, I told a bump, and some of these, I said, this isn’t measurable, this is, like, a lot. I saw… I saw some of those, but that was keeping me a little bit on track there, trying to get… Yeah.
437 01:10:57.810 ⇒ 01:11:08.129 Uttam Kumaran: So, overall, I think this is fine. The really… the way… the reason, like, you’ve been in a lot of companies, you know that the way OPRs typically work is this is a nice, like, kumbaya thing, and then.
438 01:11:08.130 ⇒ 01:11:08.960 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.
439 01:11:08.960 ⇒ 01:11:10.979 Uttam Kumaran: That’s not what we’re doing here.
440 01:11:10.980 ⇒ 01:11:11.740 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
441 01:11:12.010 ⇒ 01:11:13.899 Uttam Kumaran: This is… we… this is, like…
442 01:11:14.400 ⇒ 01:11:23.370 Uttam Kumaran: I am going to make sure that this is actually useful for us. So, during the ENG leads, we’re going to look at OKRs every week.
443 01:11:23.370 ⇒ 01:11:23.770 Samuel Roberts: Okay.
444 01:11:23.770 ⇒ 01:11:26.129 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll get a measurement of if we’re on track or not.
445 01:11:26.240 ⇒ 01:11:39.319 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly, the team is likely going to be judged by whether these are accomplished. Cool. Ideally, in the future, we should start to compensate and do bonuses based on OKRs.
446 01:11:39.320 ⇒ 01:11:39.910 Samuel Roberts: Okay, yeah.
447 01:11:39.910 ⇒ 01:11:43.760 Uttam Kumaran: So, it’s gonna get more and more important over time, but…
448 01:11:44.040 ⇒ 01:11:53.889 Uttam Kumaran: like, this is something that’s a really, really important thing for me, and a way for us to have an established set of goals for the company. So, I think these four are fine.
449 01:11:54.750 ⇒ 01:12:01.330 Samuel Roberts: All right. Yeah, the only other thing that ChatGPT threw out was, like, the, but I thought it was here somewhere else, like…
450 01:12:01.470 ⇒ 01:12:06.500 Samuel Roberts: involved with, like, what was it? Oh, man, now I’m blanking on it.
451 01:12:07.290 ⇒ 01:12:15.580 Samuel Roberts: Sorry, now I’m totally… oh, like, case studies, AI case studies, but I see that someone already got that in there, but like…
452 01:12:15.580 ⇒ 01:12:16.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
453 01:12:16.010 ⇒ 01:12:22.520 Samuel Roberts: if it was, like, client work in general, like, we’re not obviously driving, like, what it is, but I wanted… I wasn’t sure…
454 01:12:22.520 ⇒ 01:12:22.980 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like…
455 01:12:22.980 ⇒ 01:12:23.699 Samuel Roberts: hear about that.
456 01:12:23.700 ⇒ 01:12:28.750 Uttam Kumaran: The line work, I think, will fall onto the delivery team.
457 01:12:28.840 ⇒ 01:12:30.260 Samuel Roberts: Okay. Which is…
458 01:12:30.740 ⇒ 01:12:40.520 Uttam Kumaran: Which is, like, for example, it could be, client NPS, it could be client ticket, right? So, this is where…
459 01:12:40.740 ⇒ 01:12:47.170 Uttam Kumaran: this is where, again, we’re gonna have to decide, right? And I have, like, some of these on engineering, I have just under OASH.
460 01:12:47.300 ⇒ 01:12:48.200 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.
461 01:12:48.200 ⇒ 01:12:52.569 Uttam Kumaran: some of these will come under, will be similarly to you. So this is where, like.
462 01:12:52.690 ⇒ 01:12:56.769 Uttam Kumaran: We’ll figure out, like, how we want to dictate these.
463 01:12:56.910 ⇒ 01:13:09.319 Uttam Kumaran: And then that’s why the… the only thing that I think could be the highest leverage is this OKR, which is… this is the most specific, which is 50% of tickets created by AI with an 80% grooming score.
464 01:13:09.540 ⇒ 01:13:19.809 Uttam Kumaran: So basically, I think one of the most leveraged things that we could do for our team is have AI create the tickets, have them be extremely helpful.
465 01:13:20.160 ⇒ 01:13:23.080 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Right. Yeah, I thought that among the other columns.
466 01:13:23.080 ⇒ 01:13:25.949 Uttam Kumaran: engineering quite, quite dramatically.
467 01:13:25.950 ⇒ 01:13:29.899 Samuel Roberts: So that’s the only, like, one I left in here is, like, probably the biggest stretch thing.
468 01:13:30.320 ⇒ 01:13:31.629 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and that’s fi- I mean…
469 01:13:32.900 ⇒ 01:13:38.520 Samuel Roberts: Do we have, like… I know we have the thing that will generate from the transcript, make linear tickets.
470 01:13:38.520 ⇒ 01:13:43.129 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so, but I think that this is, again, you have to work with the PMs to be like, how are you creating tickets right now?
471 01:13:43.130 ⇒ 01:13:44.600 Samuel Roberts: That’s what I was gonna say, yeah.
472 01:13:44.600 ⇒ 01:13:46.609 Uttam Kumaran: People are just using their own ChatGPT.
473 01:13:46.610 ⇒ 01:13:47.130 Samuel Roberts: Right.
474 01:13:47.130 ⇒ 01:13:52.330 Uttam Kumaran: And the grooming score is the way we, we, we, like…
475 01:13:52.680 ⇒ 01:14:04.719 Uttam Kumaran: pull that OKR back, which is like, yeah, we can just create 50% of tickets, and they’re all slop, so we have this mechanism by measuring, right? And so, I think they do have a… they do have a little bit of, like, a framework for how to write great tickets.
476 01:14:04.720 ⇒ 01:14:05.879 Samuel Roberts: That’s what I was gonna ask now.
477 01:14:05.880 ⇒ 01:14:08.470 Uttam Kumaran: And then build something that scores it on that criteria.
478 01:14:08.470 ⇒ 01:14:08.900 Samuel Roberts: Alright, cool.
479 01:14:08.900 ⇒ 01:14:09.520 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
480 01:14:10.740 ⇒ 01:14:14.190 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, see, this is where I’m like, I’m not sure what’s already there, and I just need to be more, like.
481 01:14:14.190 ⇒ 01:14:15.109 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
482 01:14:15.110 ⇒ 01:14:15.999 Samuel Roberts: I do, you’re right.
483 01:14:16.000 ⇒ 01:14:17.300 Uttam Kumaran: So this one…
484 01:14:17.490 ⇒ 01:14:23.740 Uttam Kumaran: will give you all that knowledge, right? If you accomplish that, then you’ll learn about the… you’ll learn about the most…
485 01:14:23.740 ⇒ 01:14:24.300 Samuel Roberts: 100%.
486 01:14:24.300 ⇒ 01:14:28.380 Uttam Kumaran: The only thing that’s key here is engineering is not on there, because…
487 01:14:28.380 ⇒ 01:14:29.210 Samuel Roberts: Yes.
488 01:14:29.210 ⇒ 01:14:36.649 Uttam Kumaran: No, this is where, like, I just felt like PM sales marketing are the easiest, but engineering is our biggest cost center.
489 01:14:36.890 ⇒ 01:14:37.800 Samuel Roberts: It’s true.
490 01:14:37.800 ⇒ 01:14:38.800 Uttam Kumaran: So…
491 01:14:39.750 ⇒ 01:14:42.679 Samuel Roberts: I’m gonna… I mean, maybe add another KPI of, like.
492 01:14:43.900 ⇒ 01:14:47.209 Samuel Roberts: Some… something measurable about engineering work, like getting
493 01:14:47.340 ⇒ 01:14:50.149 Samuel Roberts: We may not… maybe not 100% of those workflows, but, like.
494 01:14:50.620 ⇒ 01:14:54.049 Samuel Roberts: Documenting, standard… yeah, we could do something like that.
495 01:14:54.310 ⇒ 01:14:59.809 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I could say, like, document 50% or something. Yeah, that’s fine.
496 01:15:00.440 ⇒ 01:15:03.060 Samuel Roberts: Even that will make us have to list out.
497 01:15:03.060 ⇒ 01:15:03.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
498 01:15:03.430 ⇒ 01:15:10.059 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, there’s a lot here that I, as I even was doing it, because honestly, it’s been a minute since I, like, really sat down and did kind of KPI.
499 01:15:10.060 ⇒ 01:15:10.410 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
500 01:15:11.760 ⇒ 01:15:19.239 Samuel Roberts: and OKRs. But, yeah, I think just even that is gonna be enough that, like, I’ll get into the weeds a little bit on engineering and understand, like.
501 01:15:19.380 ⇒ 01:15:28.370 Samuel Roberts: what are the, like, SOPs they’ve got, what are the workflows they have, how to, like… because even just the chat the other day, them a lot of explaining that, like, oh, I can’t see this in a cursor, and we were like, no, you can. There’s a way to do it.
502 01:15:28.370 ⇒ 01:15:28.939 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
503 01:15:29.180 ⇒ 01:15:33.979 Samuel Roberts: it was great, because I was just like, yeah, no, that’s… that’s gonna level things up a little bit. But yeah, okay, cool.
504 01:15:35.850 ⇒ 01:15:36.470 Samuel Roberts: Alrighty.
505 01:15:36.470 ⇒ 01:15:45.100 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, so we’ll review this with everybody in the Angelaze later, and then, yeah, this is… this is great. So let me get back to you with a couple things on the contract side, and then…
506 01:15:45.100 ⇒ 01:15:45.700 Samuel Roberts: again.
507 01:15:46.060 ⇒ 01:15:48.339 Uttam Kumaran: And yeah, just let me know what you need from me.
508 01:15:48.600 ⇒ 01:15:54.660 Samuel Roberts: Alright, cool, yeah, I know, I mean, I’ve been… I’ve been enjoying my time, so far, and I’m excited to keep going. This is…
509 01:15:54.820 ⇒ 01:15:58.970 Samuel Roberts: this is fun stuff. Like, I’m excited to work on things, you know, it’s not like a…
510 01:15:59.430 ⇒ 01:16:02.689 Samuel Roberts: It could be the opposite, I suppose, depending on what the role goes.
511 01:16:02.690 ⇒ 01:16:09.600 Uttam Kumaran: No, I appreciate that. I also think it’s fun. I’m very… I’m very jealous. Like, I would love to be…
512 01:16:09.940 ⇒ 01:16:20.710 Uttam Kumaran: like, looking at this and, like, looking at the company, like, how do we AI this whole company? I think this is the… one of the coolest roles we have in the company, you know, so I’m really, really excited.
513 01:16:21.250 ⇒ 01:16:22.970 Samuel Roberts: Alright, sounds good, man.
514 01:16:22.970 ⇒ 01:16:24.110 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thanks, Sam.
515 01:16:24.110 ⇒ 01:16:25.670 Samuel Roberts: Alright, yeah. Have a good one.
516 01:16:25.850 ⇒ 01:16:26.830 Uttam Kumaran: Party soon. Bye.