Meeting Title: Brainforge Client Work and Payment Discussion Date: 2025-08-29 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Demilade Agboola


WEBVTT

1 00:00:11.710 00:00:12.730 Demilade Agboola: real time.

2 00:00:12.730 00:00:14.040 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude, can you hear me?

3 00:00:14.340 00:00:15.320 Demilade Agboola: I can hear you.

4 00:00:15.640 00:00:17.209 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, how’s everything, thanks?

5 00:00:21.320 00:00:22.259 Uttam Kumaran: So what would you say?

6 00:00:22.650 00:00:23.820 Uttam Kumaran: I said, how’s everything?

7 00:00:24.300 00:00:29.199 Demilade Agboola: It’s alright. Everything’s just kind of moving. How’s your side?

8 00:00:29.890 00:00:37.839 Uttam Kumaran: Things are good. We are… I mean, it’s good and bad. I think we are… Like, figuring out, …

9 00:00:38.250 00:00:44.989 Uttam Kumaran: you know, a lot of things with… with people changes, which has been, like, up and down. I think we’re also…

10 00:00:45.190 00:00:49.139 Uttam Kumaran: Getting a lot of really great wins, …

11 00:00:49.250 00:00:55.149 Uttam Kumaran: on clients, like, I actually think work on Eden, on Urban Stems, has been…

12 00:00:55.340 00:01:04.149 Uttam Kumaran: Pretty good. And across, like, a couple other clients, we’ve been… we’ve been doing really, really, a great job, so…

13 00:01:04.459 00:01:11.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think the client work’s going well. We’re also bringing on a couple people for, sales, so…

14 00:01:11.700 00:01:12.830 Uttam Kumaran: …

15 00:01:13.680 00:01:31.970 Uttam Kumaran: That are… that are coming on to help us. So, you know, we brought on Sid, who was supposed to help with sales coordination, but she just couldn’t dedicate the time, so then we’re bringing on two more people. One of, actually, is here in Austin, so I’m kind of hopeful that she, is able to crush it.

16 00:01:32.030 00:01:37.340 Uttam Kumaran: While we’re having really, really Like, great sales conversations.

17 00:01:37.450 00:01:47.089 Uttam Kumaran: Our goal for this quarter is to try to hit 110K in MRR. We started the quarter, like, kind of like 65, we’re at 80 now, so we still have to…

18 00:01:47.390 00:01:49.360 Uttam Kumaran: You know, keep pushing, but….

19 00:01:49.930 00:01:55.319 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I also think, like, Sam has been helpful on the AI side, too. I heard he had a meeting.

20 00:01:55.320 00:02:00.330 Uttam Kumaran: you know, he hosted a meeting with the data team, and I was really happy to kind of hear the feedback, so….

21 00:02:02.050 00:02:14.340 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah, we had a meeting yesterday, where we kind of, like, discussed, like, AI things, and just, like, how to improve certain things in our process with AI and all that, so it wasn’t bad, it was a good meeting.

22 00:02:17.100 00:02:23.230 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, good. Yeah, I’ve been using Cursor, like, all week, for… for development, and it’s been…

23 00:02:23.870 00:02:25.890 Uttam Kumaran: Super, super, super nice, like…

24 00:02:26.110 00:02:36.259 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, it feels like crazy. It feels like such a cheat code, I don’t know. Like, having… having to not, like, write commas myself, or, like, just having someone helping me pair, it’s like…

25 00:02:36.430 00:02:38.320 Uttam Kumaran: Really, really nice, I don’t know.

26 00:02:38.530 00:02:39.740 Uttam Kumaran: Nothing like it.

27 00:02:40.460 00:02:43.479 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah, it does speed up the process, …

28 00:02:44.050 00:02:46.999 Demilade Agboola: It’s not always… it’s not always correct, though, but, like….

29 00:02:47.000 00:02:49.529 Uttam Kumaran: Not always correct, yeah.

30 00:02:49.700 00:03:02.090 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, I don’t know, I think if you’re good with, like, messaging it, using it for help planning, but also, like, if I was like, hey, I need to go find the table that does this, can you go look through all my files? Like.

31 00:03:02.480 00:03:06.730 Uttam Kumaran: That’s really nice, because that’s something I would have had to, you know, probably go do.

32 00:03:07.100 00:03:12.250 Uttam Kumaran: myself, ultimately, so that’s what I’ve been kind of using it for. …

33 00:03:12.380 00:03:14.760 Uttam Kumaran: And to take the first crack at the model.

34 00:03:14.940 00:03:20.450 Uttam Kumaran: Before I, sort of, come in and, like, make some changes, so… Like, all the boilerplate code.

35 00:03:22.440 00:03:25.569 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

36 00:03:26.040 00:03:28.459 Demilade Agboola: I do use it quite a bit for, like.

37 00:03:28.930 00:03:34.640 Demilade Agboola: Doing a once-over, and then kind of using that as a foundation to figure out the rest.

38 00:03:36.220 00:03:38.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s… that’s basically the same thing, so…

39 00:03:42.290 00:03:44.790 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything on your side?

40 00:03:45.990 00:03:48.670 Demilade Agboola: I mean, I think from the work perspective.

41 00:03:49.120 00:04:00.110 Demilade Agboola: It’s, it’s fine. It’s been good. Having Amba has helped quite a bit, so she’s helped with, like, pacing and prioritization of work.

42 00:04:00.110 00:04:01.260 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

43 00:04:01.260 00:04:02.240 Demilade Agboola: ….

44 00:04:02.240 00:04:12.770 Uttam Kumaran: I think we have… I still… yeah, I’m curious on, like, how you think if we’re across all clients, like, net-net, if you think we’re taking on too much.

45 00:04:12.920 00:04:15.610 Uttam Kumaran: For the time, if you think we’re taking on too little.

46 00:04:15.770 00:04:20.840 Uttam Kumaran: I think I’ve probably been the only person that’s been opinionated, and I have a feeling, but…

47 00:04:20.959 00:04:23.190 Uttam Kumaran: That’s probably my one question, also.

48 00:04:24.990 00:04:25.680 Uttam Kumaran: If you’.

49 00:04:25.680 00:04:26.450 Demilade Agboola: I’m….

50 00:04:26.450 00:04:26.840 Uttam Kumaran: Sure.

51 00:04:26.840 00:04:29.720 Demilade Agboola: I think it’s… I think it’s a bit of a swing sometimes. I think they have.

52 00:04:29.720 00:04:30.500 Uttam Kumaran: Those aren’t cheap.

53 00:04:30.500 00:04:33.810 Demilade Agboola: March. I think they’re present, which we take on to later.

54 00:04:33.810 00:04:34.460 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

55 00:04:36.220 00:04:41.340 Demilade Agboola: I also think for certain projects or certain things, not everything is in our court.

56 00:04:41.960 00:04:53.730 Demilade Agboola: And being able to communicate, like, hey, this is out of our… like, there’s nothing we can do about this, and I know there’s a deliverable expected on this, but, like, this is out of our court.

57 00:04:54.270 00:05:04.829 Demilade Agboola: it’s helpful, because then, at that point, it doesn’t seem like we are taking… Blocking. Yeah, we’re blocking, and it doesn’t feel like it’s part of the too much that we’re doing. …

58 00:05:05.860 00:05:09.449 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, I think for the most part, I think…

59 00:05:09.590 00:05:19.180 Demilade Agboola: We’re slightly… I would say we’re doing… I would say we’re doing enough for the most part. We can definitely take on a bit more on some of our plans.

60 00:05:19.410 00:05:20.310 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.

61 00:05:21.340 00:05:21.980 Uttam Kumaran: It’s right.

62 00:05:21.980 00:05:27.670 Demilade Agboola: then it also will have to come from somewhere. So it’s kind of like a give and take.

63 00:05:29.600 00:05:30.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

64 00:05:30.220 00:05:35.440 Demilade Agboola: Eden, like, for instance, needs more of me, then Urban Stems gets less of me.

65 00:05:35.720 00:05:40.139 Demilade Agboola: Yeah. Or vice versa, so it’s kind of like shuffling all of that together and figuring out….

66 00:05:40.140 00:05:42.230 Uttam Kumaran: That’s… that’s also, like, kind of feedback.

67 00:05:43.150 00:05:46.010 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, this is where I’m, like, challenged, because…

68 00:05:46.390 00:05:52.400 Uttam Kumaran: I thought we could run, you know, a business where we have people sort of split between two.

69 00:05:52.600 00:05:56.870 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t know, like, and I thought, you know, AI may help to…

70 00:05:57.000 00:06:01.760 Uttam Kumaran: make that possible, because typically in consulting, you’re only, like.

71 00:06:02.030 00:06:07.560 Uttam Kumaran: on staff within one client, right? But, I don’t know, I feel like… It…

72 00:06:07.880 00:06:19.980 Uttam Kumaran: we’re sort of back to the… it’s not exciting for people on the team, but also, I don’t know, I just felt like we’re getting faster and faster. But you’re right, it’s like, the context switching is quite demanding, so…

73 00:06:20.200 00:06:25.590 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if you have, like, a different take on that now that you’re… Kind of seeing…

74 00:06:25.900 00:06:27.820 Uttam Kumaran: The jump between two…

75 00:06:28.090 00:06:34.729 Uttam Kumaran: Or if you think, like, yeah, we should just stick with one each, or maybe it’s, like, I don’t know.

76 00:06:34.730 00:06:40.849 Demilade Agboola: I think it depends on… it depends on… The role on each client.

77 00:06:41.180 00:06:46.210 Demilade Agboola: So, for instance, like, prior, like, in Eden before, I had, like.

78 00:06:46.350 00:06:50.340 Demilade Agboola: I don’t say really huge role, but, like, everything’s products related.

79 00:06:50.880 00:06:51.640 Uttam Kumaran: It was big.

80 00:06:51.640 00:06:53.750 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, was kind of on my plate.

81 00:06:54.170 00:06:59.259 Demilade Agboola: So, you know, Josh reached out to me, Kota reached out to me, Mitashi reached out to me.

82 00:06:59.450 00:07:02.809 Demilade Agboola: Rebecca’s, like, people are just reaching out to me for different things.

83 00:07:02.960 00:07:07.030 Demilade Agboola: … And then I also had Urban Stems, which

84 00:07:07.150 00:07:09.390 Demilade Agboola: again, had a huge role in.

85 00:07:09.390 00:07:09.950 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

86 00:07:09.950 00:07:12.249 Demilade Agboola: I think it’s kind of that balance of…

87 00:07:12.660 00:07:25.670 Demilade Agboola: being able to have different roles in different spaces, so you can have a huge role here, and have a smaller role here. Yeah. Or, like, just a balance of both, right?

88 00:07:25.670 00:07:28.460 Uttam Kumaran: Like, if I was the lead on Urban Stems.

89 00:07:28.580 00:07:36.849 Uttam Kumaran: and then you were the lead on… on that, then it’s a little bit better, versus you being just the lead AE on both.

90 00:07:37.010 00:07:41.720 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, if you’re a lead… yeah, lead AE on both, especially when you don’t necessarily have

91 00:07:42.030 00:07:44.800 Demilade Agboola: A… a team that is handling.

92 00:07:44.800 00:07:45.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

93 00:07:45.690 00:07:52.580 Demilade Agboola: Or you can, like, delegate tasks to, and so at the end of the day, you are responsible for both planning and execution.

94 00:07:53.030 00:07:55.689 Demilade Agboola: then it becomes… I think that’s the….

95 00:07:55.690 00:07:56.090 Uttam Kumaran: at all.

96 00:07:56.090 00:07:57.340 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, it becomes brutal.

97 00:07:58.620 00:08:16.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, in consulting, also, you have, like, these various roles that we’re thinking of, where you have, like, account executive, which is, like, usually me or Robert. You have, like, Solutions Architect, which is kind of, like, basically, like, Awash is doing some of that. I’m also doing some of that. You’re doing some of that. We also then have, like, levels of

98 00:08:17.040 00:08:22.549 Uttam Kumaran: individual ICs, which is, like, kind of a junior person, a senior person, a lead.

99 00:08:22.830 00:08:27.680 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re right, like, maybe the best thing is, like, for…

100 00:08:28.060 00:08:36.929 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think Eden is our largest client, and I think having your focus there is always gonna be important, because it maps to the revenue.

101 00:08:37.030 00:08:39.479 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t know, maybe…

102 00:08:39.640 00:08:52.530 Uttam Kumaran: like, having me on Urban STEM’s short term, and then if we get another person on AE’s side, having that person lead Urban STEM off the jump versus it seeming more equal is the best way to go.

103 00:08:52.880 00:08:56.159 Demilade Agboola: So, yeah, I mean, I have no problem, like, leading urban STEMs.

104 00:08:56.360 00:09:03.170 Demilade Agboola: it’s more of, if I’m leading Urban STEMS and I have a big role in in Eden.

105 00:09:03.680 00:09:04.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

106 00:09:04.220 00:09:05.330 Demilade Agboola: really hard.

107 00:09:05.830 00:09:09.490 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I mean. I guess, like, leading… leading I’m using in terms of, like.

108 00:09:09.660 00:09:12.780 Uttam Kumaran: You’re… you’re the primary go-to.

109 00:09:12.920 00:09:16.330 Uttam Kumaran: Right? Like, if something breaks, you’ll get a ping immediately.

110 00:09:16.500 00:09:17.710 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.

111 00:09:17.770 00:09:26.289 Uttam Kumaran: Which isn’t, like, anything about, like, junior or senior, it’s actually just, like, lead versus someone that is on the project executing.

112 00:09:26.460 00:09:28.740 Uttam Kumaran: Because you’re right, like.

113 00:09:29.320 00:09:34.360 Uttam Kumaran: you’re gonna have… like, you can’t go to Eden and say my other client is asking me this stuff.

114 00:09:35.160 00:09:35.840 Demilade Agboola: Wow.

115 00:09:36.580 00:09:37.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

116 00:09:37.870 00:09:41.039 Demilade Agboola: So, yeah, that kind of makes it tricky, …

117 00:09:41.680 00:09:45.459 Demilade Agboola: In certain periods to, like, balance all of that.

118 00:09:46.300 00:09:52.900 Demilade Agboola: But yeah, I think that… I think for the most part, work hasn’t been, like…

119 00:09:54.510 00:09:56.339 Demilade Agboola: Too bad, in that sense.

120 00:09:56.340 00:09:56.950 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

121 00:09:59.010 00:10:06.560 Demilade Agboola: I guess it’s just more of, like, the finance flow thing that has been, like, the more stress, like, because, like, ultimately.

122 00:10:07.030 00:10:10.009 Demilade Agboola: It is stressful to have to think about

123 00:10:10.300 00:10:17.970 Demilade Agboola: or when is pay coming in? Will I be able to make this deadline? What’s happening with this? Like…

124 00:10:19.820 00:10:28.529 Demilade Agboola: also, like, to be fair, most of… I think the major thing is, because I’m trying to do this EB1 thing, so, like, it’s actually, like, a lot of… a lot of…

125 00:10:29.800 00:10:31.869 Demilade Agboola: There’s, like, a huge outflow.

126 00:10:32.460 00:10:33.320 Demilade Agboola: ….

127 00:10:33.320 00:10:33.960 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

128 00:10:34.490 00:10:40.909 Demilade Agboola: But, like, it’s almost at the end, so that’s helpful. But, like, just generally, it’s a bit, like, frustrating to have to, like.

129 00:10:41.030 00:10:45.089 Demilade Agboola: Be wondering, like, oh, when is it gonna come in?

130 00:10:45.270 00:10:52.260 Demilade Agboola: Do I need to reach out to my landlady and tell her to push back my rent? Like, things like that. It’s a bit frustrating.

131 00:10:52.440 00:10:53.800 Demilade Agboola: Yeah.

132 00:10:55.770 00:10:56.310 Demilade Agboola: And….

133 00:10:56.310 00:10:58.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so… Yeah, go ahead.

134 00:10:58.320 00:11:00.310 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, and it’s just like, okay.

135 00:11:00.740 00:11:07.350 Demilade Agboola: I am… like, maybe I’ll go into the month of September, but I haven’t been paid for July and August.

136 00:11:07.580 00:11:09.980 Demilade Agboola: It’s kind of like, yeah.

137 00:11:10.800 00:11:13.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think a couple things on our end. It’s…

138 00:11:13.150 00:11:18.429 Uttam Kumaran: everything I mentioned before is still true, and, like, what we’re… Trying to do.

139 00:11:18.490 00:11:24.210 Uttam Kumaran: And a lot of what you’re seeing, you know, in the recent, sort of.

140 00:11:24.270 00:11:40.210 Uttam Kumaran: modes of understanding how many hours are going to every client, understanding, you know, like, we… we… we also have shed a couple of team members, some for, like, performance, but also some just because, like, the work wasn’t…

141 00:11:40.310 00:11:48.820 Uttam Kumaran: enough to afford, and so that has also helped us right-size. But you’re right, I mean, like, I can only stay here and tell you that we’re

142 00:11:49.060 00:11:56.200 Uttam Kumaran: like, we’re still trying, but I want to kind of give you a couple of, also, options and a couple of things that I think we can do. One is.

143 00:11:56.300 00:12:15.529 Uttam Kumaran: the best… the… right now, the finance outgoing payments is… is out of my hands. But I don’t wanna… I’m not here to say, like, oh, if someone else is managing that, go talk to them. That’s not what I mean. But more in that there is a process now. Previously, I was the one that was just firing stuff off.

144 00:12:15.650 00:12:35.349 Uttam Kumaran: But I was not really mindful of, like, cash flow and, also mapping hours and looking at cost of goods, so there is a more data-driven process that’s happening right now. So the most, you know, important thing that I could ask, and I think this would go a really long way for that team, is for you to

145 00:12:35.360 00:12:36.550 Uttam Kumaran: do ours.

146 00:12:36.570 00:12:41.510 Uttam Kumaran: ideally, like, end of week. I think that would be… I know it may seem…

147 00:12:41.550 00:12:48.960 Uttam Kumaran: Small and, you know, not, like, the most important thing, but for that team to close the books every month, and then every week.

148 00:12:49.010 00:12:55.830 Uttam Kumaran: They need to start to… they need to be able to map the cost to the client, especially for clients where we’re billing hourly.

149 00:12:56.360 00:12:57.949 Uttam Kumaran: So that would be my one…

150 00:12:58.200 00:13:00.720 Uttam Kumaran: point of feedback that I would have.

151 00:13:00.770 00:13:20.009 Uttam Kumaran: is, like, if we can work together, like, I’m even happy to sit with you at the end of the week and do that. That would be really, really helpful. Second piece is, for this next month, I’ve told them to prioritize your payment, or at least a partial payment, for this past… this month, as soon as we can.

152 00:13:20.050 00:13:26.619 Uttam Kumaran: So what we’re doing is, because right now we still don’t have enough cash flow to

153 00:13:26.750 00:13:43.000 Uttam Kumaran: submit every single payment in the month, and then wait for the cash to come in. There is… there is some delay, but what kind of the way we’re doing it is trying to rotate. So for some folks, it’s going to be, like, earlier in the month, for some folks, it’s going to be later in the month, and

154 00:13:43.430 00:13:47.859 Uttam Kumaran: The… our job on the sales side is to continue to sell business, to kind of, like.

155 00:13:48.270 00:13:51.250 Uttam Kumaran: bridge that gap a little bit. So, I think that’s…

156 00:13:51.630 00:14:00.610 Uttam Kumaran: Those are probably the two pieces I have, so for this next month, I’ve already told them to prioritize, even if they can get you a partial amount.

157 00:14:00.710 00:14:05.600 Uttam Kumaran: you know, as fast as they can get it to you. But I also…

158 00:14:05.880 00:14:15.899 Uttam Kumaran: like, want to be candid about the hours thing, and this is something that I wasn’t really clear about, or we weren’t clear about at all, about how this is going to…

159 00:14:16.180 00:14:26.159 Uttam Kumaran: impact pay and things like that, but it only took… it’s only all happened in the last, you know, 2 months, where we start to right-size everything, so it’s becoming, you know, much more…

160 00:14:26.390 00:14:28.400 Uttam Kumaran: Important to have that.

161 00:14:29.740 00:14:30.669 Demilade Agboola: Oh, okay.

162 00:14:34.100 00:14:43.389 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s… that’s kind of, like, it from my side. I mean, I… I know it’s, like, it’s not, like, a perfect answer, and I… your work has nothing to do with the… with the…

163 00:14:43.490 00:14:58.279 Uttam Kumaran: like, the timing on pay, which I know is, like, extremely frustrating, like, I… like, it’s… it’s not at all about the quality of your work, like, zero about that. Like, you’re not someone I even consider thinking about, …

164 00:14:58.410 00:15:04.040 Uttam Kumaran: But I do think what would be extremely helpful as a way to continue to speed it up is to have

165 00:15:04.210 00:15:08.659 Uttam Kumaran: … Hours filled out end of week, ideally, would be great.

166 00:15:11.870 00:15:15.320 Demilade Agboola: Alright, sure, sounds good. … It’s…

167 00:15:17.410 00:15:19.790 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, sounds good. Like, I guess that….

168 00:15:19.790 00:15:21.300 Uttam Kumaran: That was… yeah, yeah, go ahead.

169 00:15:21.620 00:15:23.300 Demilade Agboola: I guess it’s just, it’s just, like…

170 00:15:28.570 00:15:32.100 Demilade Agboola: I guess it’s just the thing of, like, being able to…

171 00:15:40.080 00:15:46.790 Demilade Agboola: Like, I understand, like, the hours thing in terms of, like, you know, operations and trying to figure out, like, …

172 00:15:47.130 00:15:49.130 Demilade Agboola: You know, billing the clients and stuff.

173 00:15:49.750 00:15:55.850 Demilade Agboola: … So yeah, I’ll try and do that more often, like, be more consistent with that.

174 00:15:56.150 00:15:57.260 Demilade Agboola: …

175 00:15:57.440 00:16:03.720 Demilade Agboola: Like, I, like, I just, you know, ideally don’t want to be in a spot where we’re, like, rehashing this conversation

176 00:16:04.860 00:16:10.920 Demilade Agboola: Like, having it, like, happen, like, over and over, it does get, like, tiring, to be honest.

177 00:16:11.810 00:16:18.729 Demilade Agboola: Because… like, for instance, I’m traveling to Nigeria tomorrow.

178 00:16:19.680 00:16:24.649 Demilade Agboola: I’m going for a friend’s wedding, and I haven’t even booked my accommodation, like, because…

179 00:16:24.960 00:16:31.289 Demilade Agboola: just trying to get cash for that, and just having cash to travel with, and all that stuff. And it’s just very stressful to be…

180 00:16:32.190 00:16:37.020 Demilade Agboola: It should just be, like, one… One, … badding.

181 00:16:37.020 00:16:37.680 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

182 00:16:38.020 00:16:41.049 Demilade Agboola: Good, like, total catastrophe.

183 00:16:41.770 00:16:50.679 Demilade Agboola: So, yeah, it’s, it’s… it’s… I, like, I don’t necessarily like being in that scenario, and normally I’m not. I usually have, like, a runway for some months.

184 00:16:51.210 00:16:57.699 Demilade Agboola: … But then, if the month… like, but that also requires me to get money coming in.

185 00:16:58.150 00:17:02.410 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. No, I don’t… I mean, I… Yeah, it’s…

186 00:17:02.710 00:17:05.509 Uttam Kumaran: It’s extremely… it’s extremely clear. I mean, I…

187 00:17:06.390 00:17:09.009 Uttam Kumaran: I see where you’re at, I mean, I…

188 00:17:09.589 00:17:15.980 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying… I’m trying our best. We haven’t… we haven’t, like, restricted payment or… or held it off.

189 00:17:16.220 00:17:19.029 Uttam Kumaran: For any sort of reason apart from

190 00:17:19.520 00:17:24.059 Uttam Kumaran: Like, even for us, we’re trying to get cash in and get cash out as fast as possible.

191 00:17:24.329 00:17:29.390 Uttam Kumaran: I… I think it’s extremely fair for you to hold us accountable for that.

192 00:17:30.120 00:17:37.980 Uttam Kumaran: Anything I’ve said in the past and what we’re trying to do has not changed, but I take accountability for the fact that we haven’t made it happen.

193 00:17:38.290 00:17:41.170 Uttam Kumaran: And, like, kind of what I was hoping for has not.

194 00:17:41.700 00:17:44.660 Uttam Kumaran: Happened on that side, but… …

195 00:17:46.070 00:18:01.209 Uttam Kumaran: it’s something that, for this month, right after this call, I’m happy to send a note to them to say to prioritize getting you as much as we can as early on, even in advance of other folks, and to try to make

196 00:18:01.540 00:18:06.580 Uttam Kumaran: make you, like, gain some more trust in us on that front. I mean, it’s… it’s extremely…

197 00:18:07.220 00:18:11.329 Uttam Kumaran: important. It’s not something that, like, I’m sort of, like.

198 00:18:11.460 00:18:17.940 Uttam Kumaran: just throwing against the wayside. I also am not taking money out of the company, but I’m the last one.

199 00:18:18.150 00:18:21.019 Uttam Kumaran: On the list, if that, so it’s….

200 00:18:21.020 00:18:22.250 Demilade Agboola: No, I’m sorry.

201 00:18:22.250 00:18:23.040 Uttam Kumaran: I hear you.

202 00:18:23.480 00:18:34.649 Demilade Agboola: I have something like it’s a process thing. I’m not trying to say that anyone necessarily has, you know, or is not paying me or anything. I guess it’s just…

203 00:18:36.080 00:18:36.600 Demilade Agboola: I don’t know.

204 00:18:36.600 00:18:42.199 Uttam Kumaran: But I know it’s… at some point, you will have to say, like, is this even, like, sustainable? I get it.

205 00:18:42.540 00:18:49.089 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, like, I just would… I would just like us to have, like, a process that works, in that sense, in the sense that, like.

206 00:18:49.790 00:18:51.740 Demilade Agboola: You know, …

207 00:18:55.220 00:19:00.450 Demilade Agboola: Just being able to know that, okay, …

208 00:19:02.890 00:19:20.419 Demilade Agboola: like, everything that, you know, like, all the hours I’m putting in, and if I’m trying to, like, solve problems, then I’m thinking about this, and thinking about that. Because even, like, prior to joining, like, Brainforge, I ended up cutting off, like, some other gig I was running, because I just wanted to focus fully here.

209 00:19:20.490 00:19:26.629 Demilade Agboola: just, like, the… the… to be in a spot where, like, you know, I want to give this place my all.

210 00:19:27.110 00:19:33.219 Demilade Agboola: I want, like, my entire energy and all of that. And so to, you know.

211 00:19:33.460 00:19:36.129 Demilade Agboola: to be in a spot where, like, I’m cash-trapped.

212 00:19:36.490 00:19:39.829 Demilade Agboola: It’s a bit frustrating, because it’s like, you know…

213 00:19:41.650 00:19:44.839 Demilade Agboola: I wouldn’t want to be in this situation, you know?

214 00:19:45.060 00:19:57.360 Demilade Agboola: And I also think, like, it’s… it’s different if I was, like, unemployed or, like, just not doing anything. At least you know, you kind of don’t expect anything, and you kind of plan your finances around that.

215 00:19:57.580 00:20:16.770 Demilade Agboola: you don’t expect any cash flow coming in, or any inflow, so you’re just like, oh, okay, there’s no money coming in, I need to keep my, you know, spending on that. And you manage yourself to that level. But when you’re expecting something, and then it doesn’t come in, and then days are taking by, and taking by, and taking by…

216 00:20:17.080 00:20:21.020 Demilade Agboola: it starts to get, like, okay, so what’s going on here? I think that’s the….

217 00:20:21.020 00:20:21.510 Uttam Kumaran: gaps.

218 00:20:21.510 00:20:22.260 Demilade Agboola: impressed.

219 00:20:22.690 00:20:30.140 Demilade Agboola: So yeah, I do know it’s a process. I do know sometimes people don’t pay, like, on time, like, clients and all that stuff. I understand that it’s not…

220 00:20:30.270 00:20:37.120 Demilade Agboola: it’s not, like, a straightforward process, you know? I do know that, and I appreciate that. I’m not trying to say that, like.

221 00:20:37.260 00:20:41.370 Demilade Agboola: Oh, they’re on doing anything, you know, weird or funny.

222 00:20:41.540 00:20:42.300 Demilade Agboola: It’s just….

223 00:20:42.300 00:20:42.890 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

224 00:20:43.030 00:20:46.440 Demilade Agboola: I will just appreciate if we’re able to get to the points where

225 00:20:48.340 00:20:50.920 Demilade Agboola: The process is smoother, you know.

226 00:20:51.260 00:20:51.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

227 00:20:51.930 00:20:55.280 Demilade Agboola: Using with, like, RAMP, RAMP doesn’t, what’s it called?

228 00:20:55.930 00:21:03.959 Demilade Agboola: RAM doesn’t pay you for, like, 5 business days or something. So, like, even though the payment was initiated this week, I don’t get paid until, like, Wednesday next week.

229 00:21:03.960 00:21:04.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

230 00:21:06.020 00:21:14.070 Demilade Agboola: So, yeah, effectively, I’m getting July pay in, like, September, you know? Yeah. Bit frustrating in that regard.

231 00:21:15.350 00:21:17.240 Uttam Kumaran: I hear you, I mean, I…

232 00:21:18.390 00:21:27.189 Uttam Kumaran: I, … I think part of this is, like, we… we set pretty lofty goals in the company, and we tried to hit them, and I think we…

233 00:21:27.560 00:21:34.670 Uttam Kumaran: Our expenses were high, and one thing that we’ve done is we’ve cut, you know, almost another 20, 25 grand worth of expenses.

234 00:21:34.930 00:21:40.060 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve also, you know, I think changed a lot of the ways that we …

235 00:21:40.510 00:21:45.859 Uttam Kumaran: That we’re… we’re planning the business, and, you know, all of that is to…

236 00:21:46.060 00:22:01.660 Uttam Kumaran: fix our accounts payable deadlines, IEP deadlines. It’s… it’s something that, like, I… I go to bed thinking about every day, and I… I wish I could… I mean, I’m happy to… I can send you, sort of, the messages that I’m sending our finance team, but there’s…

237 00:22:01.820 00:22:13.589 Uttam Kumaran: I’m… I’m only able to do what I can do, and I understand that that’s integrating a lot of trust in us, and it’s causing an immense amount of pain. So it’s… it’s… it’s, … it’s not lost on me, and…

238 00:22:13.740 00:22:20.899 Uttam Kumaran: It’s something that, you know, I wake up and put in my 12-hour days to fix, but I also know that that’s

239 00:22:21.120 00:22:23.580 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just what I can say, it may not be…

240 00:22:23.780 00:22:28.900 Uttam Kumaran: It needs to translate into real, you know, outcomes, and so…

241 00:22:29.410 00:22:31.400 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I, I, I understand.

242 00:22:33.300 00:22:35.030 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, that’s fair, that’s fair.

243 00:22:35.380 00:22:36.410 Demilade Agboola: …

244 00:22:40.700 00:22:45.280 Demilade Agboola: That is fair. Like, yeah, we’re figuring things out, so it’s a process.

245 00:22:46.030 00:23:06.010 Uttam Kumaran: No, and I… look, I… I don’t ever, like, I… you know, even when you came on, I told you that I don’t want to run this like a business where it’s, like, crazy, and I… I want this to be a place where people feel safe, and I know in some ways, I think we’ve… we’ve done our best to try to make that happen. In a lot of ways, we still have a ways to go, and…

246 00:23:06.120 00:23:12.400 Uttam Kumaran: you know, for me, I wake up just thinking about how we can improve and get there faster, but I also know that we’re

247 00:23:12.550 00:23:16.440 Uttam Kumaran: were not there today, and so… I… yeah, it’s …

248 00:23:16.720 00:23:24.190 Uttam Kumaran: whatever, you know, I think I’m… I feel a lot of the… The same pain, and… Definitely…

249 00:23:24.280 00:23:33.420 Uttam Kumaran: like, waking up and doing our best to bring in as much money as possible, and to keep the best people here, and to try to pay them more, and I know we haven’t done

250 00:23:33.460 00:23:46.039 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of that, and it’s… it just is something that’s… that’s waning on me, and I know it’s… it’s a lot of trust that you guys put with your time and your effort into the company as well, so it’s… it’s not…

251 00:23:46.730 00:24:02.400 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not like we’re a big corporation and there’s, like, a cog in the machine, but the only way we survive is by having you and great team members that come in dedicated every day, and not being paid on time is, like, a huge distraction for that.

252 00:24:03.260 00:24:08.809 Uttam Kumaran: And, yeah, I have to… I have to find a way to… to fix that.

253 00:24:10.840 00:24:12.709 Demilade Agboola: Okay, guys, so good.

254 00:24:13.540 00:24:14.780 Demilade Agboola: ….

255 00:24:16.290 00:24:25.839 Uttam Kumaran: I guess also, like, I’m curious about, like, now that you’ve sort of been with us for a bit, like, I’m kind of curious on where, you know,

256 00:24:26.090 00:24:37.840 Uttam Kumaran: you would like to go. I think one thing that we’re doing as we’re sort of deciding on changes with people and bringing on new people is trying to… for me, one of the things that I want to do more is spend time with our

257 00:24:38.020 00:24:45.179 Uttam Kumaran: highest performing people, which I think you’re on that list for sure. But, you know, for me, it’s important to hear, like.

258 00:24:45.550 00:25:03.419 Uttam Kumaran: okay, does Demolati want to just stay and continue to get more and more advanced on the AE side? Does he want to start to lead, like, entire AE architectures, kind of like what we did for Urban Friends. Are you more interested in managing? I know we had a conversation about this when you first joined, but would be curious, now that you’ve sort of seen

259 00:25:03.870 00:25:05.509 Uttam Kumaran: Our company evolved.

260 00:25:06.070 00:25:07.930 Uttam Kumaran: Like, where… what you think…

261 00:25:08.840 00:25:13.580 Uttam Kumaran: Like, where you… you might want to fit, or, like, even grow… even going forward.

262 00:25:15.760 00:25:23.779 Demilade Agboola: So I think for me, I would be more interested in, like, … kind of the…

263 00:25:26.100 00:25:44.630 Demilade Agboola: creating, like, solutions plays, so, like, being able to say, hey, this… this is how we currently solve things like this. These are things that could help you when you’re trying to also solve, like, these sort of things. So, like, solution playbooks, basically. Okay. That would be something that would help.

264 00:25:45.020 00:25:53.510 Demilade Agboola: I’m also, being able to… I guess… interact…

265 00:25:57.180 00:26:01.579 Demilade Agboola: like, how’d I put it? I think being able to interact more…

266 00:26:08.340 00:26:14.630 Demilade Agboola: Interact more with people in the sense of, like, being able to… …

267 00:26:15.210 00:26:22.400 Demilade Agboola: Have, like, juniors that you can mentor, and just basically give, like, ideas to, and feedback to, and help them, like, figure out

268 00:26:22.510 00:26:28.309 Demilade Agboola: How to solve problems, how to grow, what they need in the area, things like that.

269 00:26:29.170 00:26:34.329 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think those two things are, like, top of mind, and also just maybe even being more…

270 00:26:35.030 00:26:37.610 Demilade Agboola: In some cases, client-facing.

271 00:26:37.960 00:26:44.319 Demilade Agboola: Not, like, fully, like, a PM, client-facing, but just in some cases, being able to…

272 00:26:44.630 00:26:49.470 Demilade Agboola: Interact with them, let them know what’s going on, give them updates, give them feedback.

273 00:26:49.670 00:26:54.950 Demilade Agboola: That sort of thing, being able to… …

274 00:26:56.700 00:27:02.550 Demilade Agboola: Be in the spot to, you know, talk to the clients, hear their… hear what their pain points are.

275 00:27:03.010 00:27:05.629 Demilade Agboola: Consistently just be able to be…

276 00:27:06.400 00:27:10.710 Demilade Agboola: In that spot, to be able to give them, like, feedback and, like, let them know what…

277 00:27:10.950 00:27:24.909 Demilade Agboola: what we’re doing, what’s in the road, what’s in the, like, roadmap, and what’s happening with them, that kind of thing. Just, like, kind of how we have meetings with Urban STEMs that, like, I kind of, like, you know, run the meetings, something like that.

278 00:27:25.090 00:27:31.339 Demilade Agboola: Just being able to say, hey, this is the roadmap, this is what’s going on, this is how far along we are.

279 00:27:31.780 00:27:37.070 Demilade Agboola: Are there any pain points? Are there things that you might want us to, like, reconsider? Things like that.

280 00:27:37.900 00:27:38.540 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

281 00:27:38.770 00:27:50.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I also think, like, for us, that’s the sort of track we’re deciding around, like, solution architecture, but I also think, like, I would love to see how we can action even more early on, like, the mentorship piece.

282 00:27:50.590 00:27:58.830 Uttam Kumaran: like, have you seen… have you seen good examples of that at past places, or like, what’s something that I can try to get set up for that, like.

283 00:27:58.960 00:28:03.910 Uttam Kumaran: even, you know, sooner, in the next, like, week or two around that. Like, how can I support

284 00:28:04.200 00:28:20.720 Uttam Kumaran: you need to, like, make… to, like, start to pair you with people, because even on the… even on the AI side, like, Casey and the staff are doing data work, I think we’re… we’re… we’re gonna have… we have folks like Henry, and other folks that are gonna start doing a lot of data work, so I’m just curious if there’s…

285 00:28:20.870 00:28:25.669 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what… have you seen a way for that to work previously that you think is best?

286 00:28:27.210 00:28:35.180 Demilade Agboola: I… I… so the way I’ve seen that… the way I’ve seen that work previously, it was more of a… what’s it called? …

287 00:28:37.790 00:28:49.980 Demilade Agboola: A project-by-project basis, in which, you know, someone has a project, someone has a use case, and then they come to you for, like, the discussions, and, like, we can check in on the project.

288 00:28:50.030 00:29:09.289 Demilade Agboola: what they’re doing, what issues they’re having, and being able to have them say, oh, if you’re struggling with this, there’s, you know, this is what you probably need to do. If you need to learn more about this, there’s a material maybe I’ve seen, or we could find a course for you on this, or we could find some material about that.

289 00:29:09.760 00:29:26.909 Uttam Kumaran: like, in our company, do you think it would, like, how do you think that it would be like, okay, junior person, come to the… come to the meeting with all your tickets, or questions? Like, the other part is, like, we have a lot of shy people in our company, so sometimes I’m like, how can I get people to be more open with… with those sorts of things, so…

290 00:29:27.590 00:29:28.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

291 00:29:31.850 00:29:32.980 Demilade Agboola: …

292 00:29:34.440 00:29:41.819 Demilade Agboola: like, yeah, we do have a lot of shy people, but I think sometimes being in a space where you can feel like you’re not being necessarily.

293 00:29:41.820 00:29:42.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

294 00:29:43.080 00:29:48.970 Demilade Agboola: But the person that is there with you is actually just really genuinely trying to help you. That helps quite a bit.

295 00:29:49.510 00:29:50.120 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

296 00:29:50.120 00:29:52.699 Demilade Agboola: So just being in this space where

297 00:29:52.820 00:30:03.389 Demilade Agboola: You can walk through, like, your tickets, what’s going on with your tickets, if you have any issues with them, how maybe you might need to restructure certain things. …

298 00:30:06.160 00:30:10.340 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, I think, like, that can help.

299 00:30:10.800 00:30:11.450 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

300 00:30:11.710 00:30:17.140 Demilade Agboola: But the other side of it is you also want to do it to the point that it feels like hand-holding.

301 00:30:17.300 00:30:18.379 Demilade Agboola: So you want some….

302 00:30:18.380 00:30:19.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

303 00:30:19.380 00:30:23.670 Uttam Kumaran: But see, this is also the thing, is, like, I feel like… the…

304 00:30:24.040 00:30:39.339 Uttam Kumaran: my position… I want people to sort of start pairing with other people in the company, so you guys can kind of see what’s going on across clients, and so that’s, like, what’s interesting to me. But I… for me, what I can help is, like, setting up the mechanism and setting up

305 00:30:39.440 00:30:42.760 Uttam Kumaran: The process, creating, like, some accountability, but…

306 00:30:43.080 00:30:58.829 Uttam Kumaran: it still takes, like, I think… I think Oasia’s starting to do a lot more of that. I would love to see you starting up, because a lot of people, I think, are just… they’re just slow because they haven’t seen the faster way of doing things, you know, and they’re struggling with something, they just haven’t seen it before, so… that’s where I think a lot of people could use

307 00:30:59.300 00:31:00.860 Uttam Kumaran: A bunch of help, you know?

308 00:31:02.460 00:31:03.250 Demilade Agboola: Fair enough.

309 00:31:03.890 00:31:10.469 Demilade Agboola: … Yeah, I definitely know people can do with some help.

310 00:31:10.810 00:31:21.200 Demilade Agboola: I also know that sometimes it’s… it’s a bit tricky for people to call out for help. I think creating an open-door policy where people, like, can actually call out for help is… would also be very good.

311 00:31:21.650 00:31:22.210 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

312 00:31:22.210 00:31:24.909 Demilade Agboola: Because, you know, you don’t want people to get stuck.

313 00:31:26.090 00:31:31.600 Uttam Kumaran: Do you feel like we’re, like, not… we don’t have that now, or, like… I feel like we’re… it’s…

314 00:31:31.720 00:31:37.850 Uttam Kumaran: pretty open, but I guess, like, how could we make that more… obvious, or… yeah.

315 00:31:38.960 00:31:41.460 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, just being able to….

316 00:31:42.440 00:31:44.690 Demilade Agboola: Like, I remember when I was in, …

317 00:31:45.130 00:31:50.679 Demilade Agboola: in data culture, I remember people literally reach out to you and just be like, you know, I’m working on this project.

318 00:31:51.030 00:31:53.640 Demilade Agboola: I would like a second eye on this.

319 00:31:54.180 00:32:04.599 Demilade Agboola: And then, you know, either they hop on a call, or they send you some, like, video recording, whatever, like, there was just, like, some feedback process, and it wasn’t, like.

320 00:32:05.070 00:32:20.129 Demilade Agboola: it was kind of normal, in a way. I remember Neil would always say, if something’s taking you more than, like… I can’t remember the exact time he said, but if it was taking you maybe beyond 8 business hours, you need to tell someone what’s going on, right? Like, just reach out to…

321 00:32:20.760 00:32:28.839 Demilade Agboola: This is what’s going on. Get a second eye, get a second opinion. Here, it’s not really a thing, it’s not like a cultural thing.

322 00:32:29.000 00:32:33.040 Demilade Agboola: Everyone solves the problem until eventually they figure it out.

323 00:32:33.760 00:32:34.470 Demilade Agboola: Aww.

324 00:32:34.470 00:32:35.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

325 00:32:35.020 00:32:35.639 Demilade Agboola: You know?

326 00:32:36.040 00:32:38.540 Uttam Kumaran: But, like, is that something you think I could do better?

327 00:32:40.470 00:32:49.760 Demilade Agboola: I guess it’s… I guess it’s more of a cultural thing. To be fair, data team isn’t that large, it’s basically right now, like, on the AE team specifically, it’s just myself, Awish, and….

328 00:32:49.760 00:32:50.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

329 00:32:50.270 00:32:50.970 Demilade Agboola: Okay.

330 00:32:51.410 00:32:52.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

331 00:32:53.300 00:32:55.709 Demilade Agboola: So again, it’s just 3 of our…

332 00:32:56.770 00:32:59.430 Demilade Agboola: I think Annie is, like, the sole analyst, really.

333 00:33:00.390 00:33:02.780 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we also have Shreya, who’s starting.

334 00:33:03.090 00:33:11.239 Uttam Kumaran: Which I’ll introduce everyone to probably next week. But she’s coming on, and Henry is doing some product analysis work as well.

335 00:33:13.340 00:33:25.950 Demilade Agboola: Yeah, so, yeah, just basically having, like, an open door thing where people are finding it very easy to hop on calls, and… and to be fair, to this day, I still try to do that. At times, I just buzz, Ani, and I’m like, how far are you available for…

336 00:33:26.310 00:33:27.580 Demilade Agboola: ….

337 00:33:27.850 00:33:28.690 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

338 00:33:28.690 00:33:44.359 Demilade Agboola: what I’m going to do, and all that. Sometimes she gives me ideas that I’m like, oh, that makes sense. But the advantage of that is that when I eventually, for instance, push a PR, she knows what to do. She’s expecting.

339 00:33:44.360 00:33:45.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

340 00:33:45.080 00:33:48.259 Demilade Agboola: What they thought it was going to come in, how we’re going to model it.

341 00:33:50.000 00:33:51.760 Demilade Agboola: So it makes it smoother.

342 00:33:54.860 00:33:55.690 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

343 00:34:02.510 00:34:03.380 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

344 00:34:03.570 00:34:04.630 Uttam Kumaran: Makes sense.

345 00:34:07.930 00:34:08.760 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

346 00:34:14.840 00:34:21.430 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great. Alright, so let me think about a couple of these. I’m gonna send a couple notes to finance right after this, …

347 00:34:21.540 00:34:28.179 Uttam Kumaran: And then, yeah, I mean, I would, like, I’m gonna find some tribe for us to spend together. I mean, one thing that I did in my schedule

348 00:34:28.330 00:34:40.760 Uttam Kumaran: is I really just had to purge so much, and cut a lot of time spent with, like, core engineering, just to, like, start to build our whole sales motion. Some of that is getting improved, so I’m gonna try to see if at least every…

349 00:34:41.110 00:34:57.259 Uttam Kumaran: like, 3 or 4 weeks, I can grab an hour with all the really, really amazing people, and, like, people that are crushing it, and just spend time listening and seeing how we can work together. I mean, I also think I’m trying to do a lot of development work, so we can definitely pair on stuff, too, during the week.

350 00:34:59.040 00:35:00.709 Demilade Agboola: Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

351 00:35:01.180 00:35:05.769 Demilade Agboola: that works, especially, like, with urban stems, it might help to crush some of the, like.

352 00:35:05.880 00:35:07.409 Demilade Agboola: Things out the park.

353 00:35:08.110 00:35:12.459 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, exactly. Like… I’ve put in, like, 1 or 2 hours.

354 00:35:12.880 00:35:14.830 Uttam Kumaran: And then…

355 00:35:16.670 00:35:21.249 Uttam Kumaran: Just, like, try to crush, like, a couple of models, so maybe we can play around that this week.

356 00:35:22.000 00:35:23.400 Demilade Agboola: Okay, sounds good.

357 00:35:24.200 00:35:28.180 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, alright. Well, thank you, dude. I appreciate it. I’ll talk to you soon.

358 00:35:28.650 00:35:29.390 Demilade Agboola: Bye.

359 00:35:29.390 00:35:30.240 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, bye.