Meeting Title: Brainforge PMO Lead Interview Date: 2025-08-19 Meeting participants: Syed, Amber Lin
WEBVTT
1 00:02:44.670 ⇒ 00:02:45.250 Amber Lin: Yay!
2 00:02:46.110 ⇒ 00:02:47.060 Syed: How’s it going?
3 00:02:47.430 ⇒ 00:02:48.920 Amber Lin: Pretty good, how are you?
4 00:02:49.190 ⇒ 00:02:57.919 Syed: Not too bad, not too bad. It’s beautiful outside here in Jersey, so it’s, you know, it’s… everybody’s in a pleasant mood, more of a pleasant mood today.
5 00:02:57.920 ⇒ 00:03:05.989 Amber Lin: Awesome. Yeah, I’m… right now, I’m in California, I’m in Lake Arrowhead, so experiencing some nice weather today.
6 00:03:05.990 ⇒ 00:03:09.780 Syed: Yep, yep, it’s not too hot here today, it’s like 75-ish, so it’s great.
7 00:03:10.830 ⇒ 00:03:13.389 Syed: I mean, it gives you an inclination that…
8 00:03:14.040 ⇒ 00:03:28.379 Syed: falls around the corner, which is a little, you know, like, I shouldn’t say depressing, but it just has its own vibe, right? But summer is usually, all right, you’re gonna do stuff, because you only have, like, 3 months to pack everything in. New Jersey, at least, yeah.
9 00:03:28.840 ⇒ 00:03:29.450 Amber Lin: Cool.
10 00:03:29.630 ⇒ 00:03:30.270 Syed: Yep.
11 00:03:30.950 ⇒ 00:03:48.280 Amber Lin: Alright, so we saw the loom that you sent in, and I think both me and Utam, who’s our CEO, is very impressed by your experience, and we want to have this interview to get to know you a little bit more, and make sure you can ask questions about the company, and …
12 00:03:48.280 ⇒ 00:03:51.409 Amber Lin: For both of us to judge where… if we’re both a fit.
13 00:03:51.860 ⇒ 00:04:05.250 Syed: Sure. Yeah. And I can start off with a quick introduction about myself, so my name’s Amber. I joined Brainforge about 5 months ago as a project manager, and right now I’m helping them set up the PMO and look for people to….
14 00:04:05.410 ⇒ 00:04:08.559 Amber Lin: Run and lead the zip code.
15 00:04:08.980 ⇒ 00:04:09.730 Syed: Governor.
16 00:04:10.090 ⇒ 00:04:10.920 Amber Lin: No.
17 00:04:11.030 ⇒ 00:04:12.320 Amber Lin: And…
18 00:04:12.760 ⇒ 00:04:23.519 Amber Lin: I know you already intro’d yourself in the loom, so, we can skip that and go right into the questions, so I can leave some time at the end for you to ask questions as well.
19 00:04:23.520 ⇒ 00:04:24.960 Syed: Yep, absolutely, yeah.
20 00:04:25.410 ⇒ 00:04:41.660 Amber Lin: Yeah. I’m looking through the different positions that you were at, and usually how we run this interview is we, go through the past positions and just get a gist of, okay, what were you hired to do?
21 00:04:41.660 ⇒ 00:05:00.939 Amber Lin: What are some accomplishments that you’re proud of at that position, and the pitfalls at that position? What the people you worked at, worked with was like, and what your boss is like, and how they would think of you, and lastly, why you’re looking to leave that company.
22 00:05:00.990 ⇒ 00:05:08.029 Amber Lin: Sure. And we can start with the most recent one at Khmer. What were you hired to do at Khmer?
23 00:05:09.030 ⇒ 00:05:24.629 Syed: So at Camir, I was a senior operations manager. The main objective of the role was to drive implementations with the clients, and then, that was pretty much the main objective, and then build that relationship with the clients, implement.
24 00:05:24.630 ⇒ 00:05:29.860 Syed: And then hand them over to the accounts team, and then move over to the next implementation.
25 00:05:29.950 ⇒ 00:05:33.549 Syed: That was the main high-level goal of that role.
26 00:05:34.700 ⇒ 00:05:45.340 Amber Lin: Okay. On that note, then, would you say that you’re completing what you’re required to do well, or what would your… what would your manager say about that?
27 00:05:46.210 ⇒ 00:06:05.289 Syed: So, I was responsible for 3, implementations before they had a reorg. So in those 3 implementations, I believe the manager would definitely say that, a lot of it, a lot of the client satisfaction, KPIs were hit, as well as the internal, team satisfaction. What I mean by that is.
28 00:06:05.290 ⇒ 00:06:22.469 Syed: Of course, our team, our internal team, our implementation team needs X amount of data, from the client, right? In order to extract that and be able to present that, bring it back to our team so they can work on it, those were… those KPIs were hit as well. We did run, a very…
29 00:06:22.650 ⇒ 00:06:39.419 Syed: six-week implementation timeline, which was pretty aggressive, just for the fact that the nature of the business was, and how they… how they had to launch X amount every quarter for the next round of funding to be available. So we were really pressed, on getting these launches, and the three that I launched.
30 00:06:39.650 ⇒ 00:06:46.059 Syed: we were able to hit our… all our timelines, as well as, as I mentioned, the client satisfaction rate was, pretty high as well.
31 00:06:46.630 ⇒ 00:06:49.819 Amber Lin: That’s awesome. So I think…
32 00:06:50.030 ⇒ 00:06:57.720 Amber Lin: What would you say is a pitfall, when you’re at this company? I know you’ve only been there for 6 months.
33 00:06:58.470 ⇒ 00:07:15.869 Syed: So, I think the pitfall there is the velocity at… the velocity they want us to move and implement, this particular product with the clients. As I mentioned earlier, right, there is a dependency, right, for the next round of funding to be,
34 00:07:16.040 ⇒ 00:07:33.279 Syed: available for them, so we move at a very high velocity. And due to that, there are instances where things get dropped, right? Not properly gets done. And then, once we go live with it, we see a lot of defects, we see a lot of hindrances that these businesses face.
35 00:07:33.280 ⇒ 00:07:49.759 Syed: And especially with the product that they have is medical billing, right? And directly with, let’s just say, a doctor’s office, and they are really counting on those funds to come in in a timely cadence for them to run their operations, right? And if there is a defect that that
36 00:07:49.910 ⇒ 00:07:54.540 Syed: Cadence breaks, and then they’re at… they’re in a…
37 00:07:54.850 ⇒ 00:08:13.290 Syed: press to find funds to ensure that the operations run smoothly, right? So I think the velocity is the biggest pitfall. I wish we had a little bit more time where we can really dot the I’s and cross the T’s, so the client really gets a very, very, very good experience as opposed to getting a good experience, so to speak, right?
38 00:08:13.290 ⇒ 00:08:15.330 Amber Lin: I see. I think…
39 00:08:15.350 ⇒ 00:08:37.549 Amber Lin: I also want to know what you think was your personal, maybe a personal pitfall that you experienced at that company, because there’s, I guess, to phrase a better personal low point at the company, because I know you talked about a success story, and so I just want to spend some time to hear on the other side what was going on.
40 00:08:38.500 ⇒ 00:08:52.559 Syed: I think in one of the implementations, as you can imagine, right, BrainFresh being a startup themselves, you can imagine that a lot of, like, document… because they’re moving so fast, they’re developing so fast, features can enhance so fast, a lot of the documentation is what.
41 00:08:52.600 ⇒ 00:08:54.269 Amber Lin: It’s usually lacking.
42 00:08:54.270 ⇒ 00:09:02.499 Syed: Right? Because of the velocity, right? And as the documentation is lacking, an operations manager, an implementations manager.
43 00:09:02.500 ⇒ 00:09:19.320 Syed: is also responsible for change management and training of the end client, right? If the documentation is not up to complete, the change management, is not at par, right? Because what they see at Go Live is very different than what we talk through them or train their staff in.
44 00:09:19.320 ⇒ 00:09:30.299 Syed: During the, change management phase, right? So a low point is, one of the implementations, we changed the product and the features so rapidly in the last month or so.
45 00:09:30.700 ⇒ 00:09:42.570 Syed: I didn’t have the opportunity to ensure that our client was trained enough on the… the new features, or the amendment of the features that we had made, right? And…
46 00:09:42.650 ⇒ 00:09:58.789 Syed: not just because of the time crunch, also because I mentioned the documentation. Like, we never… the developers never moved over the documentation, or never documented the changes and the impact, downstream impact it would have, right? So that also didn’t click to me, that we are missing… there are gaps in the
47 00:09:59.210 ⇒ 00:10:04.699 Syed: management process. So because of that, we didn’t have a smooth implementation, because
48 00:10:04.700 ⇒ 00:10:28.089 Syed: there was a lot of training that needed to be done after Go Live, which is not really ideal, right? There’s also… there’s always, like, a refresher, which is fine, but a true change management after Go Live is not really ideal, right? Where they really do not know, if I click this button, I was told it would turn green, and it’s actually turning purple, for example, right? It’s a bad example, but that’s… that’s the kind of changes we made, right? Like, real changes, which we couldn’t… we weren’t able to train and
49 00:10:28.090 ⇒ 00:10:33.040 Syed: inform them prior to go live. So I think that was a low point in one of the implementations that I faced.
50 00:10:33.320 ⇒ 00:10:42.689 Amber Lin: Oh, thank you for sharing with me. I think last question regarding that, Kamir, is I want to know, how come you’re looking to leave that position?
51 00:10:42.860 ⇒ 00:10:58.169 Syed: So, I was… there was actually a reorg, and I was let go as part of the reorg. So, as one can imagine, like, if you ever worked in a situation where they are trying to go IPO, at one… very soon, it becomes, like, a…
52 00:10:58.250 ⇒ 00:11:08.020 Syed: a market share grab game to a margins game, right? To go before going IPO. So I think that’s where they are at the moment, with the margins game.
53 00:11:08.020 ⇒ 00:11:08.460 Amber Lin: condition.
54 00:11:08.460 ⇒ 00:11:23.339 Syed: that X amount of margin… they are making X amount of margin, per, implementation, so to speak, right? At that point, they had to let go of X amount of staff to ensure that they can prove that they are operating at, I think a SaaS margin is around, if I’m not mistaken.
55 00:11:23.340 ⇒ 00:11:23.710 Amber Lin: Aww.
56 00:11:23.710 ⇒ 00:11:26.069 Syed: It’s around 20… no, it’s around…
57 00:11:26.240 ⇒ 00:11:35.959 Syed: 40-odd percent, if I’m not mistaken, and we were at, like, 20-odd something. So, that was just a numbers game at that point, where they had to, like, reorg and be, …
58 00:11:36.130 ⇒ 00:11:51.200 Syed: in a good… in a good place to go IPO if they wanted to go tomorrow, so to speak. Obviously, they won’t go tomorrow, but they have to show that margin for X amount of time. Anyway, so in short, it was just a reorg, and I was just a part of that reorganization.
59 00:11:51.200 ⇒ 00:11:58.139 Amber Lin: I see. That’s tough. Do you guys… do you still keep in contact with your manager, or how… how is that?
60 00:11:58.140 ⇒ 00:11:59.920 Syed: Yes, I am…
61 00:12:00.770 ⇒ 00:12:18.850 Syed: I am connected with my manager, but I haven’t spoken to him in a while, but, like, I am connected to, the other operations managers who are still working there. So yeah, I’ve been keeping a pulse, because I do have some RSUs, so I keep a pulse on how things are going.
62 00:12:18.850 ⇒ 00:12:20.069 Amber Lin: Hmm, I see.
63 00:12:20.460 ⇒ 00:12:26.840 Amber Lin: … Would you have an idea of how come they kept the other operational managers?
64 00:12:27.650 ⇒ 00:12:28.410 Syed: So, I mean….
65 00:12:28.410 ⇒ 00:12:35.450 Amber Lin: Based on what you said, I think you performed really well, and you really contribute to that company. I’m just really confused why they would let you go.
66 00:12:35.450 ⇒ 00:12:53.619 Syed: It’s, as I mentioned, right, it’s a numbers game, right? So, we had, if I were not mistaken, between the Vetscoats and East Coast, that’s how our team was broken up. We were around 10 operations managers, and out of them, 3 of them were senior. As you can imagine, if you have a senior title, there is…
67 00:12:53.800 ⇒ 00:12:55.980 Syed: dollar amounts associated with it, right?
68 00:12:55.980 ⇒ 00:12:56.480 Amber Lin: Good.
69 00:12:56.480 ⇒ 00:13:13.339 Syed: So it’s easier to… the margins… I mean, to achieve your goal, it’s easier to let 2 of the seniors go, as opposed to letting six of the… six of the regular operation managers go, right? Yeah, it’s just a manager… it’s just a numbers game, at the end of the day, I think, yeah.
70 00:13:13.840 ⇒ 00:13:32.540 Amber Lin: I see, okay. Thank you for letting me know. It’s something very tough to share, so I really appreciate the transparency. I know before you worked at Kinure, you were working at Amazon, as a program manager. How come you transitioned from a program manager to an operations manager? What’s the difference there?
71 00:13:32.780 ⇒ 00:13:34.539 Syed: So, to be completely honest.
72 00:13:34.950 ⇒ 00:13:39.710 Syed: These are just titles, right? Like, but the role has been the same. The project and
73 00:13:40.090 ⇒ 00:13:55.180 Syed: management aspect of it has been the same. If you look at Camir today, if you go and just look at their LinkedIn, you’ll see very easily 70% to 75% of the staff is labeled as operations manager. Granted, they’re doing different things, right? They’re all operations manager.
74 00:13:55.220 ⇒ 00:14:00.589 Syed: That’s how the… that’s how the nomenclature has been there for some reason.
75 00:14:00.590 ⇒ 00:14:00.970 Amber Lin: Come on.
76 00:14:00.970 ⇒ 00:14:08.140 Syed: manager, you become an associate operations, operations manager, senior operations manager, and then you become the directors, and so on and so forth.
77 00:14:08.140 ⇒ 00:14:08.570 Amber Lin: Hmm.
78 00:14:08.570 ⇒ 00:14:10.800 Syed: department, so to speak, right? So….
79 00:14:10.800 ⇒ 00:14:13.390 Amber Lin: Or is it still a project manager work?
80 00:14:13.390 ⇒ 00:14:19.959 Syed: Yes, as I mentioned, right, like, you are still responsible for implementation, so you’re gathering… you’re assisting in gathering requirements.
81 00:14:19.960 ⇒ 00:14:36.839 Syed: You’re assisting in providing status updates to both the client as well as internal teams. You’re responsible to remove blockers so the implementation can move forward. You’re the liaison between the client and the internal team as well. You’re responsible to
82 00:14:36.950 ⇒ 00:14:48.510 Syed: track to plan out the change management, the QA, the so on and so forth. So very project, program management-y, roles, right? It’s just that different titles at different places, right?
83 00:14:48.510 ⇒ 00:14:59.050 Amber Lin: Gotcha. Okay, so at Amazon, what were you hired to do? Because it’s… I know it says here that you were, Senior Program Manager for Brand Excellence.
84 00:14:59.630 ⇒ 00:15:08.119 Syed: So, I was with the storefront, the Amazon.com, and within that, within Amazon.com, there’s a team called Brand Excellence.
85 00:15:08.640 ⇒ 00:15:26.249 Syed: But they are majorly responsible… they’re responsible for major… quite a few things, but the major, core of that team is to ensure that the vendors that are on Amazon.com, the major vendors, right, the big dollar amount vendors, are providing good customer experience.
86 00:15:26.250 ⇒ 00:15:31.680 Syed: So Amazon itself, that team itself has …
87 00:15:31.990 ⇒ 00:15:50.980 Syed: three major… at the moment, they have 3 major, metrics that they track to ensure… that gives them an idea if a particular vendor is providing good, CX or not, right? So our responsibility, well, our key responsibility is to ensure that these brands are hitting those metrics.
88 00:15:51.220 ⇒ 00:16:04.649 Syed: which gives us the information that they are providing good CS metrics. If they’re not hitting the metrics, we figure out, okay, what metrics they’re not hitting, then we have to… the program managers have to strategize, work closely with those brands.
89 00:16:05.130 ⇒ 00:16:09.099 Syed: to A diagnose the issue, B, suggest
90 00:16:09.600 ⇒ 00:16:12.660 Syed: What the possible solutions could be that could assist.
91 00:16:12.750 ⇒ 00:16:21.839 Syed: C, implement those particular… along with the brand, working hand-in-hand with the brand, implement those particular fixes.
92 00:16:21.840 ⇒ 00:16:35.470 Syed: And then track and see if those fixes are actually making a positive impact or not, and if they’re making positive impact, at what velocity, right? Because we do provide brands, like, hey, if you do this, we envision that this will go up by…
93 00:16:35.700 ⇒ 00:16:42.299 Syed: 6 months, 8 months, 10 months, right? So anyway, those are the three major things that we do. And let’s just say if there’s a situation
94 00:16:42.360 ⇒ 00:16:56.410 Syed: where brands are not open to our suggestions, because they are, because there are bigger brands, right? They know that they can throw their weight around, and if their focus is, let’s just say, profitability, as opposed to CS metrics.
95 00:16:56.540 ⇒ 00:17:05.130 Syed: there are… I work with those brands, like, where they’re like, no, we are more keen on profitability, right? Then we have… our team has the…
96 00:17:05.319 ⇒ 00:17:10.209 Syed: ability to strategize of what kind of, incentives, or
97 00:17:10.410 ⇒ 00:17:13.370 Syed: Disincentives we can apply on them.
98 00:17:13.390 ⇒ 00:17:14.300 Syed: to…
99 00:17:14.300 ⇒ 00:17:36.579 Syed: sure that they provide good CX, because at Amazon, CX is king, right? That’s how the mentality and the core values are, right? Customer is king. So that’s to me, so I strategize there, in terms of what incentives we can provide them, or what disincentives we can provide them, or apply at them, for them to really think about the CX as
100 00:17:36.580 ⇒ 00:17:41.770 Syed: A thing that needs to be fixed, and at a very urgent… on a very urgent basis.
101 00:17:42.190 ⇒ 00:17:51.149 Amber Lin: Yeah, I saw that experience, and I remember what you said in Aluminum. I’m actually very, very interested about it, because, as we were developing
102 00:17:51.150 ⇒ 00:18:05.939 Amber Lin: our PMO, and we’re thinking about delivery for our consulting firm. We’re thinking about not only the work that we deliver, but also the service that we deliver, and that’s why I was very interested in your experience of making sure that
103 00:18:06.030 ⇒ 00:18:18.519 Amber Lin: your clients provide good client… good… your vendors provide good client service, because I think it’s a different mindset that not everybody has, and that’s why I was very interested in that.
104 00:18:18.620 ⇒ 00:18:24.939 Amber Lin: experience you have there, and I’m curious about, how long would those
105 00:18:25.000 ⇒ 00:18:39.870 Amber Lin: projects, or though… are they, like, very long implementations? And I’m thinking about how much of project management applies to those, to those projects, because it sounds like it’s…
106 00:18:40.130 ⇒ 00:18:49.670 Amber Lin: it sounds like consulting, rather than project management, so I just want to hear from you, because I don’t think I understand it correctly.
107 00:18:49.670 ⇒ 00:18:54.600 Syed: Okay, so the main aspect, you can break down that particular, …
108 00:18:55.080 ⇒ 00:19:11.109 Syed: particular project into this, right? The first op… the first step is a strategy. The second step is, yes, providing the strategy to the clients, and getting their buy-in, and buy-in that they will go ahead and implement, right? And the third is implementation.
109 00:19:11.200 ⇒ 00:19:29.779 Syed: And the fourth is then tracking and ensuring and modifying if need be. And the fifth is success criteria, which is whatever, like, hey, you have… you have to be back in the green, so to speak, because Amazon has their own threshold of these three CX metrics that I mentioned, right?
110 00:19:30.230 ⇒ 00:19:43.799 Syed: So, you can view the role as, yes, strategy in the beginning, right? And then it turns into project management when you are getting buy-in, right? Pretty much winning the particular work, so to speak, for lack of a better term.
111 00:19:44.130 ⇒ 00:19:46.269 Syed: Creating that project plan, letting them know
112 00:19:46.640 ⇒ 00:19:55.669 Syed: how long the strategy is going… the implementation of the strategy is going to take, and when are they going to start seeing the value of this? And at what point do we…
113 00:19:55.800 ⇒ 00:20:05.810 Syed: evaluate the value of the data that we have, and see if it’s actually working or not, and then modify as need be, right? So this is what the role was. Strategy.
114 00:20:06.020 ⇒ 00:20:17.840 Syed: Then it comes into project management, then it becomes a little bit about account management, right? Keeping the customers happy from both sides of the fence, right? The vendor, as well as our end clients, like, such as doing.
115 00:20:17.840 ⇒ 00:20:18.170 Amber Lin: response.
116 00:20:18.170 ⇒ 00:20:22.890 Syed: who buys on Amazon, right? And then at the end, it’s ensuring that
117 00:20:23.070 ⇒ 00:20:40.070 Syed: it sticks, right? And towards the end, when all of that… all the metrics come back in line, we monitor it for, like, 6 months or so, right? Then we hand that off to our other team, which is called the SaaS team, who are actually just managing the client on a
118 00:20:40.160 ⇒ 00:20:51.290 Syed: day-to-day, for lack of a better term, ensuring that the CF metric doesn’t slip, and then the bunch of other stuff that they do to just manage the vendor, and keep them happy, and ensure that.
119 00:20:51.330 ⇒ 00:21:09.680 Amber Lin: Amazon doesn’t get directly impacted by them in any which way, whether it be inventory, whether it be the CX metrics that I mentioned, so on and so forth. Oh, I see. So whenever they have problems, they hand it over to your team to say, hey, get a project done to fix this, and then you hand it back to the daily… the team that does daily maintenance.
120 00:21:09.680 ⇒ 00:21:19.110 Syed: Yeah, so we have a pulse on it, right? At these Amazon, we have a pulse on it. What I mean by that is, through a dashboard, we have X thresholds set, right?
121 00:21:19.510 ⇒ 00:21:31.299 Syed: someone who does… we only look at clients who do 3 million… I’m just making it up, right? 3 million are a global brand, you know, and they’re available in other Amazon stores in other countries and stuff.
122 00:21:31.620 ⇒ 00:21:32.000 Amber Lin: Honey.
123 00:21:32.000 ⇒ 00:21:51.209 Syed: they are a strategically important brand. What I mean by that is, they’re also available on Walmart, or they’re also available on Target. So we… so those are the three criteria, and then we have a dashboard that pops up that says, okay, there are the things… the brands that hit these four criteria are 70… 70 of these brands.
124 00:21:51.850 ⇒ 00:22:16.449 Syed: Okay? And then we’re like, okay, now let’s monitor these 70 to ensure what their metrics is, right, for the three major things we’re working on. And then, once we see it, and then… and our team was broken up, right? In, like, hey, electronics, apparel, and so on and so forth, right? So my… I was more on the apparel side, so that shrunk that particular list further down, and I would just monitor them. And that was a part of your job, right? And you’re doing other internal
125 00:22:16.450 ⇒ 00:22:22.559 Syed: projects, you’re also coming up with additional CX metrics, not just 3.
126 00:22:22.560 ⇒ 00:22:22.910 Amber Lin: Hmm.
127 00:22:22.910 ⇒ 00:22:29.859 Syed: Yeah, you’re coming up… you’re ideating, right, in terms of, okay, we have these three, what other metrics that we can…
128 00:22:30.230 ⇒ 00:22:49.050 Syed: track to provide better… that… that feeds into the customer experience, so to speak. We know the pricing, we know, delivery is important, and we know the quality is important, right? Those three things. But there could be something else, right? It could be, SKUs, like, hey, they’re only providing us
129 00:22:49.050 ⇒ 00:22:52.750 Syed: They’re only providing Amazon 2 SKUs out of the 9 SKUs that they have available.
130 00:22:52.890 ⇒ 00:23:05.109 Syed: Why is that? And that’s not a good customer experience, because for that third SKU, you may have to go to Target, you may have to go to Walmart, so on and so forth, right? So you’re also responsible to ideate what additional metrics that you can…
131 00:23:05.110 ⇒ 00:23:17.239 Syed: go live with, and then that’s a whole other project, right? Like, you come up with what could it be, how would that impact? Then, if that gets signed off by the internal VPs and so on and so forth.
132 00:23:17.620 ⇒ 00:23:19.130 Syed: Then you enroll your…
133 00:23:19.320 ⇒ 00:23:24.110 Syed: development team, your product team’s like, hey, this is my idea, how do we go about
134 00:23:25.330 ⇒ 00:23:34.819 Syed: implementing this, or coming up with how we can retract the numbers, and things along those lines, right? That’s another piece of the particular role. So it’s a pretty cool role.
135 00:23:34.820 ⇒ 00:23:35.540 Amber Lin: Yeah, exactly.
136 00:23:35.540 ⇒ 00:23:36.650 Syed: Pretty cool room, yeah.
137 00:23:37.240 ⇒ 00:23:41.480 Amber Lin: How many projects were you managing at once, or what, …
138 00:23:41.680 ⇒ 00:23:53.559 Amber Lin: I just want to get a sense of what… because you’re managing a program, so I want to get a sense of, like, how many things you’re overseeing, how big were the teams, what’s the timeline like, etc.
139 00:23:53.560 ⇒ 00:24:08.170 Syed: So when you’re working for a mammoth like Amazon, right? Like, they have a process for everything, like, process for a process for a process, right? So that’s what it… that’s what they do, like, so every year, you will say, like, okay, I’m gonna be working on… I’m… my idea is to improve
140 00:24:08.460 ⇒ 00:24:10.170 Syed: To implement tools.
141 00:24:10.340 ⇒ 00:24:22.380 Syed: other metrics, right? So those two metrics would be your major program, so to speak, right? And then there’ll be multiple projects underneath those programs that will feed into that program, right?
142 00:24:22.730 ⇒ 00:24:36.260 Syed: Now, given you that mental model, so at one given point, apart from the role, the other role that I initially talked about, which I would say probably took, like, 40% of your bandwidth, right? The other 60% would be
143 00:24:36.530 ⇒ 00:24:43.590 Syed: Focused on your two or three major programs for that year, for that fiscal year, and within those
144 00:24:43.740 ⇒ 00:24:58.009 Syed: three major programs. I think each program will probably give birth to, like, 3 or 4 other smaller projects, right? Which would be… and some projects would just be research, right? Like, hey, you’re researching what… it’s a bad example, you’re researching
145 00:24:58.140 ⇒ 00:25:13.610 Syed: how more SKUs is a better customer experience versus less SKUs, whatever, right? So… so giving you that mental model, I would say at one point in a quarter, you will probably be working on
146 00:25:14.230 ⇒ 00:25:22.059 Syed: 4 to 5 major projects, 4 or 5 smaller projects that feed into those programs on a quarterly base, right?
147 00:25:23.790 ⇒ 00:25:29.179 Amber Lin: Thank you, that’s… that’s… that’s really helpful. Into those…
148 00:25:29.270 ⇒ 00:25:50.680 Amber Lin: Awesome. I know we’re a bit short, we already went a little bit over, because your experience was very interesting. I want to make sure that I can also answer your questions about the company, the process, what you can expect, so feel free to ask me, and if there’s anything I’m unable to answer, I’ll make sure to relay that to the team.
149 00:25:50.910 ⇒ 00:25:57.260 Syed: Sure. So, yeah, I do have a couple of questions. I’ll try to keep it short as much as I can. So…
150 00:25:57.480 ⇒ 00:26:14.629 Syed: See, the job description is the job description, right? So I read the job description, it’s very, very, aligned with what I’ve done so far, very aligned with, especially with what I’ve done at KPMG, because of working with different clients, different projects at the same time, implementing solutions, consulting, so on and so forth, right?
151 00:26:14.630 ⇒ 00:26:22.020 Syed: But from your opinion, apart from what the job description states, right, which is a good, strong project manager, …
152 00:26:22.230 ⇒ 00:26:23.480 Syed: Flavor in it.
153 00:26:23.760 ⇒ 00:26:30.650 Syed: What other skills that you believe, or the X factor that you believe is required for this role, for that individual to be successful?
154 00:26:31.640 ⇒ 00:26:37.049 Amber Lin: Because right now, what we’re trying to hire is someone that can
155 00:26:37.150 ⇒ 00:26:55.170 Amber Lin: bringing our delivery and bringing our project management office to the next level. So, right now, I’m looking for project coordinators, I’m looking for project managers, but what I really want to find is someone that can run the department, because for, because I’m…
156 00:26:55.300 ⇒ 00:27:08.470 Amber Lin: My role is the Chief of Staff, so I would set up this, but then I would have to go to a different department, and I want someone who does this role a lot better than what I’m doing to make sure that we have
157 00:27:08.650 ⇒ 00:27:27.970 Amber Lin: good delivery and good service and good quality of work. So I think an important metric, or important quality for this, is to set the standards of how we, as a company, as a consulting data company, what are the standards for delivery in terms of
158 00:27:28.020 ⇒ 00:27:38.310 Amber Lin: the service, in terms of the work. And if we set that standard, how are we going to keep people accountable
159 00:27:38.310 ⇒ 00:27:57.720 Amber Lin: To those standards, and how can we set processes so it’s easier to achieve and easier to adhere to? And how do we have systems of checkpoints to make sure that it’s, say, quality of service and work is integrated to our daily operations? And then also.
160 00:27:57.930 ⇒ 00:28:12.569 Amber Lin: how do we develop, say, if you’re leading the team, how do we develop skills of project management for the team? How do we make sure that we continue to source high-quality people for this department? So, I think, …
161 00:28:13.010 ⇒ 00:28:23.390 Amber Lin: Those type of leadership skills and keeping… setting the metrics and keeping people accountable to those metrics are very important.
162 00:28:23.810 ⇒ 00:28:25.200 Amber Lin: Got it. Understood.
163 00:28:25.310 ⇒ 00:28:28.600 Syed: As you mentioned, that this… you’re still…
164 00:28:28.910 ⇒ 00:28:38.880 Syed: developing the said department. I guess this is one of your first things that you want to set up, and then move over to the next department, let’s just say finance, for example, right? Like, to set that up.
165 00:28:39.020 ⇒ 00:28:47.769 Syed: So, where is the particular team… at what stage are you in, as far as development of the said team is concerned?
166 00:28:48.370 ⇒ 00:28:53.889 Syed: managers do we have right now, or how many project managers do we have right now? What does that look like at the moment… at the moment?
167 00:28:53.890 ⇒ 00:29:06.430 Amber Lin: So I think to have a view of the company would help. Right now, we are at around 15 people, so we’re a very, very small company compared to what you’ve worked at before, and…
168 00:29:06.430 ⇒ 00:29:14.690 Amber Lin: It’s still quite scrappy at this moment. We’re just transitioning from being very, very scrappy to slightly having processes in place.
169 00:29:14.690 ⇒ 00:29:27.250 Amber Lin: And what that means for the PM department right now, I’m the only full-time project manager. We have two project coordinators that help out, and now we’re looking for someone
170 00:29:27.250 ⇒ 00:29:42.190 Amber Lin: that does project management much better than any of us have in the company. That’s our hiring standards. We want someone who does it better than anyone that’s already in the company. So right now, I would say that the PM department is 3 people.
171 00:29:42.190 ⇒ 00:29:49.389 Amber Lin: And then we’re looking for someone to set direction for the department.
172 00:29:49.390 ⇒ 00:29:50.810 Syed: Yeah, understood.
173 00:29:51.430 ⇒ 00:29:56.779 Syed: I know we’re over time already, but so I’ll just ask you two more questions, like.
174 00:29:56.780 ⇒ 00:30:00.289 Amber Lin: And then we can probably figure out the next steps. Okay.
175 00:30:01.500 ⇒ 00:30:15.340 Syed: I’m pretty sure there are implementations that have already happened already, right? And I’m guessing the learnings from that is also maybe a reasoning why the PMO department is giving a little bit… have been given a little bit more priority in terms of being set up
176 00:30:15.650 ⇒ 00:30:31.240 Syed: first before XYZ department, right? So what are some of the pain points that, let’s just say, if you believe I’m a good fit for the role, we move forward, I come in, what would be your first thing, let’s say, I understand that you’re a project manager, I understand that there’s a process of doing this, but
177 00:30:31.320 ⇒ 00:30:42.619 Syed: Knowing what we know today, this is the biggest pain point, and I think this is where we should start first, before we move on to anything. So what would… what would… what do you think that pain point would be?
178 00:30:43.620 ⇒ 00:31:02.819 Amber Lin: I would say, it could be reasonsly biased, but as far as I have experienced, quality of service is our biggest pain point. I think our engineers and our staff are very technically capable, and they’re able to deliver the work. However, as a consultancy.
179 00:31:03.340 ⇒ 00:31:16.740 Amber Lin: people are buying the service as much as they’re buying the work, they’re buying trust, they’re buying experience, and they’re buying the safety of their problem being solved, and I don’t think we’re there yet. So.
180 00:31:16.740 ⇒ 00:31:36.850 Amber Lin: A part of the service is communication. So, are we always communicating to the client things that has been resolved? And that is more than just the project manager. That takes the whole team to communicate, because especially the more stakeholders we have, it’s not possible for the project manager to
181 00:31:36.850 ⇒ 00:31:52.479 Amber Lin: be the middleman of every single communication. So that’s something that, as a whole team, or as a culture, or as a company standard that needs to get set, and people need to be held accountable. There just needs to be checks and balances and,
182 00:31:52.480 ⇒ 00:32:02.979 Amber Lin: not checks and balances, checks in place to make sure people, adhere to them, and I think that’s gonna elevate a big part of what we’re lacking on. That’s, …
183 00:32:03.020 ⇒ 00:32:04.089 Amber Lin: That’s one part.
184 00:32:04.090 ⇒ 00:32:12.469 Syed: a lot of it is also about, like, closing loops, so to speak, right? Like, we have a status meeting, action… for, like, for making something very simple, action items come about.
185 00:32:12.490 ⇒ 00:32:25.250 Syed: the project manager’s not probably the owner of the action item, maybe the tech team is, right? Because it’s more technical or whatever. But then we need somebody to be like, hey, we need to close this loop and come up with that cadence of how do we close this loop.
186 00:32:25.340 ⇒ 00:32:33.099 Syed: And what was the final outcome? So, both parties are aware of, we have closed the loop, and this is the outcome.
187 00:32:33.310 ⇒ 00:32:45.549 Syed: if you’re not okay with it, we can talk about it further, but this is what the answer to your question is at the moment. I understand that. It makes sense. Someone like KPMG, where
188 00:32:45.620 ⇒ 00:33:01.310 Syed: Yes, it’s exactly what you mentioned, right? I’d imagine a consultant, right? At the end of the day, you are selling the service, but then you’re also selling the experience as well, right? You can probably provide the best product out there, and implement the best product out there.
189 00:33:01.310 ⇒ 00:33:10.429 Syed: But if the client doesn’t feel comfortable, doesn’t feel that connection, and doesn’t feel that they’re being catered to, they’re getting what they paid for, so to speak.
190 00:33:10.540 ⇒ 00:33:12.800 Syed: There’s a chance that…
191 00:33:13.050 ⇒ 00:33:31.200 Syed: a good product might feel as a mediocre product, right? So I think… I think that I totally understand where you’re coming from, and then what that pain point is from a project management perspective, right? I totally get it. There is some client management involved, and that’s what a consulting role is sometimes, right? It’s also client management.
192 00:33:31.720 ⇒ 00:33:49.939 Syed: Okay, and I know we’re over to the last question. So, from a… I understand it’s only a 15-man team, it’s a small, it’s a small startup by every means of the world, right? A word, right? Castle was somewhat similar, but it was not as 15… when I joined, they were, like, around, I would say, in the US, we were around, like, 80 people at that point.
193 00:33:49.940 ⇒ 00:34:01.199 Syed: But, so I’m aware of the culture, but, like, I would like to understand from your words, like, what do you believe brain gorgeous culture is? And, what do you really like working here at the moment?
194 00:34:04.340 ⇒ 00:34:19.360 Amber Lin: I would say the culture’s very open, and I think that was a requirement that I need to work at this startup, because I… I reflect a lot, and I like to…
195 00:34:19.460 ⇒ 00:34:36.299 Amber Lin: speak what I think is, is going on, what can be improved, and if there’s something that people’s unhappy about, I would rather that they have that feedback. And I’ve had cases with clients, especially with execs, that they’re also startups, that they wouldn’t…
196 00:34:36.300 ⇒ 00:34:45.630 Amber Lin: share their feedback as candidly, and have to jump through loops for that feedback to get to me. And I think working with,
197 00:34:45.630 ⇒ 00:34:51.009 Amber Lin: my managers essentially are the CEOs, so working with Utam and Robert, I think they’re…
198 00:34:51.010 ⇒ 00:35:00.429 Amber Lin: as human beings, I think they’re really great people. So if you talk to Utam, I think he really has a…
199 00:35:00.800 ⇒ 00:35:05.550 Amber Lin: Awesome vision for the company and where it wants to go, especially what…
200 00:35:05.570 ⇒ 00:35:30.290 Amber Lin: he has built on the data side and the AI side, because we’re a… we’re a data consultancy, and that has eventually enabled us to do AI, and if we get a chance, I would like to show you our AI platform, and I think Busam, as a person, is very open, he’s a great person to be around, and then he has a great vision that helps people follow him. And then for Robert, I think he
201 00:35:30.520 ⇒ 00:35:49.780 Amber Lin: He holds very high standards, and then he… but he’s very caring for people, and so… and he does a lot of, nonprofit initiatives. He’s just going… I think he’s going to Kazakhstan recently to help them set up some youth or career training camps. So, I think…
202 00:35:49.980 ⇒ 00:35:55.790 Amber Lin: It’s important that your managers give you the space,
203 00:35:55.850 ⇒ 00:36:09.360 Amber Lin: to have autonomy on what you want to do, and they most definitely gave me the opportunity to do what I want to do and have a say in how to set up with the company. As human beings, they’re easy to be around.
204 00:36:09.380 ⇒ 00:36:23.660 Amber Lin: I think on that, they’ve selected people in the company that’s really easy to work with. So I like working with the team that’s existing now, especially with the AI team, so I think you’ll… you’ll also enjoy talking to them.
205 00:36:23.920 ⇒ 00:36:35.010 Amber Lin: And what I think what I really like is what I touched on, that I… that I could do things that I want, because I realized when I was, a consultant at EY, and
206 00:36:35.010 ⇒ 00:36:52.529 Amber Lin: similar consulting companies, I’ve always wanted to do more about how the project was set up, rather than just doing the market research and making the recommendations. And I think here, I was able to do that, right? I started as a project manager, and now I can
207 00:36:52.630 ⇒ 00:37:01.449 Amber Lin: make recommendations on, oh, I think this department might benefit from growing this way based on our lessons learned, based on,
208 00:37:01.680 ⇒ 00:37:08.770 Amber Lin: Books that talk about the same thing, and they’re very receptive to that, and they want you to be able to own things.
209 00:37:09.040 ⇒ 00:37:19.660 Syed: Got it. Well, makes sense. I guess, as we sign off, A, do you have any other additional questions for me that I can help you with?
210 00:37:19.660 ⇒ 00:37:43.479 Amber Lin: I asked a lot of questions, not that… not anything on my mind yet. I think if we go further into the next rounds, there will be more project management-specific questions, which I would like to prepare based on your experience, and I do want to get someone else in the hiring process, so we can avoid as much bias as possible.
211 00:37:43.640 ⇒ 00:37:52.360 Syed: Got it, yeah. No, no, makes sense. And that was my last question, like, what does the next steps look like, and how quickly are you guys looking to, fill the said role?
212 00:37:52.850 ⇒ 00:37:54.460 Amber Lin: I see. …
213 00:37:54.990 ⇒ 00:38:07.150 Amber Lin: I think the next step, you will probably hear back in one or two weeks, is we want to talk to all of the candidates before sending out invitations for the next round, so you could expect it in one or two weeks. And then…
214 00:38:07.150 ⇒ 00:38:23.340 Amber Lin: how fast we’re looking for hire… to hire for this role, we want to be very, very specific about this lead project manager role. We fill the coordinator role pretty quickly, but for this type of strategic role, we’re very careful with it, so I would say
215 00:38:23.510 ⇒ 00:38:32.449 Amber Lin: Even if this cohort of, interviews didn’t go through, we’ll wait again, and then try to find the next round of people that’s best.
216 00:38:32.450 ⇒ 00:38:39.709 Syed: Okay, no, makes sense. Yeah, the only… the only blocker that I have is I’m away, next.
217 00:38:39.710 ⇒ 00:38:42.259 Amber Lin: week, Bill, Labor Day.
218 00:38:42.260 ⇒ 00:39:01.089 Syed: then, yeah, then I’m typically back. But if there’s an urgency from, let’s just say, if I do move forward and there’s an urgency for someone to speak to me, during that week, I’m open to it. I’ll be in Europe, but still, there’s not… the time… the time difference is not horrendous. But yes, I could be open to it. But yeah, but that’s next week, yeah.
219 00:39:01.500 ⇒ 00:39:12.330 Amber Lin: Alright, I think that should be fine. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you, I found your experience very interesting, and I will relay this to my managers, and they will reach out to you.
220 00:39:12.330 ⇒ 00:39:15.249 Syed: Absolutely, right? Nice talking to you. Thank you.
221 00:39:15.370 ⇒ 00:39:16.559 Amber Lin: Yeah, have a great one.
222 00:39:16.560 ⇒ 00:39:17.330 Syed: Alright, bye.