Meeting Title: Brainforge x Clarkson Partnership Discussion Date: 2025-08-01 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, jfroissart
WEBVTT
1 00:02:36.090 ⇒ 00:02:36.730 jfroissart: Hey! Man!
2 00:02:36.730 ⇒ 00:02:43.270 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, hey? Dude, how are you?
3 00:02:43.270 ⇒ 00:02:44.380 jfroissart: How’s it going.
4 00:02:44.380 ⇒ 00:02:46.560 Uttam Kumaran: Good long time.
5 00:02:47.220 ⇒ 00:02:50.510 jfroissart: Oh, hold on one second. I gotta adjust my audio.
6 00:02:50.510 ⇒ 00:02:51.399 Uttam Kumaran: No problem.
7 00:02:53.170 ⇒ 00:02:54.039 Uttam Kumaran: How about now?
8 00:03:00.670 ⇒ 00:03:01.560 Uttam Kumaran: How about now?
9 00:03:02.190 ⇒ 00:03:03.099 jfroissart: Yep. Can you hear me?
10 00:03:03.340 ⇒ 00:03:05.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, no, I said, it’s a long time dude.
11 00:03:05.790 ⇒ 00:03:11.539 jfroissart: I know, dude, it’s been a it’s been. It feels like years, but it’s probably been more like a year and a half. Something like that.
12 00:03:11.540 ⇒ 00:03:13.499 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, something like that. How’s everything?
13 00:03:13.870 ⇒ 00:03:17.980 jfroissart: Busy man. It’s been busy. I know you can. You can probably relate. I’ve seen you.
14 00:03:17.980 ⇒ 00:03:20.790 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, congrats on the promotion and everything that’s dope.
15 00:03:20.790 ⇒ 00:03:24.594 jfroissart: Thanks, man. Yeah, a little, I think. A little overdue.
16 00:03:25.920 ⇒ 00:03:39.249 jfroissart: a few bumps in a row last year we had like it was just a lull for for all of consulting, so like they were, they were struggling to figure out where to put our like. Certain certain folks on the data analytics team on certain projects. So
17 00:03:39.520 ⇒ 00:03:42.330 jfroissart: it’s definitely it’s definitely picked back up for sure.
18 00:03:42.660 ⇒ 00:03:46.130 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. You’re still doing like mainly tableau stuff.
19 00:03:46.130 ⇒ 00:04:01.607 jfroissart: No man. I kind of pivoted so the firm didn’t like. I feel like a lot of the clients that they’re working with are like like heavy on, like Microsoft, and like databricks so like it. It was kind of a clean pivot over to to power bi.
20 00:04:02.020 ⇒ 00:04:19.320 jfroissart: but I mean, I’m super familiar with, like both of those tools. So I’m like, really at the firm right now, I’m really the only one that’s certified in both tableau and power bi. So, but they they’re not finding much work in with tableau like here, like here and there, a few projects. But it’s mostly power bi work.
21 00:04:19.320 ⇒ 00:04:21.970 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re starting to see a lot of power bi stuff, too.
22 00:04:22.160 ⇒ 00:04:26.700 jfroissart: Well, that’s I mean a lot of it has to do with the way that, like they rolled out like fabric and like.
23 00:04:26.700 ⇒ 00:04:27.120 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
24 00:04:27.120 ⇒ 00:04:41.579 jfroissart: That whole umbrella man I’m telling you like that. That is a huge game changer like we. I’m actually on church. And Dwight, right now I’m on a project with them, and they they had some really archaic, like architecture where they were using like
25 00:04:42.321 ⇒ 00:05:05.179 jfroissart: azure analysis services like like something that Microsoft’s been trying to phase out years, and they were like, we can. We can use this in combination with like using direct query with like Databrick sequel, not not understanding the cost aspect of like. If this is a pretty large project with like you’re projecting like a hundred reports with potentially 150 new users.
26 00:05:05.180 ⇒ 00:05:28.851 jfroissart: If we, you can’t predict user behavior in the beginning, like you might, you might see like a cost on a monthly basis from data breaks go from 6 K to like 26 K, you know. So they were definitely worried about it. But now, so like we, we immediately shot down like half of their architecture as soon as we on boarded. We’re like, Hey, this isn’t gonna work. And then we we we did a proof of concept. For, like their fabric,
27 00:05:29.150 ⇒ 00:05:34.439 jfroissart: instance, because they’re they’re paying big money on like like the power bi side.
28 00:05:34.976 ⇒ 00:05:38.660 Uttam Kumaran: And so they have all the features that nobody was there to unlock it. Right? And so.
29 00:05:38.660 ⇒ 00:05:39.280 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, yeah, yeah.
30 00:05:39.280 ⇒ 00:05:56.749 jfroissart: We created a proof of concept, and they immediately went to that. So yeah, that’s been, that’s been like the the brunt of the last couple of months has just been like building something that’s new to me, right? But like conceptually, it’s new. But like like how how it actually all plays out like it still feels very familiar.
31 00:05:56.750 ⇒ 00:05:57.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
32 00:05:57.550 ⇒ 00:06:08.440 jfroissart: So, yeah, that’s that’s been like the heavy ass workload in the last couple of weeks. Man, it’s been like it feels like it. It like the last 2 weeks. Feels like it’s all been blended in the last 72 h.
33 00:06:09.356 ⇒ 00:06:10.610 Uttam Kumaran: That’s great!
34 00:06:10.610 ⇒ 00:06:14.490 jfroissart: Yeah. Dude. How about you, man? I see. I see you’re doing big things on Linkedin man.
35 00:06:15.805 ⇒ 00:06:29.539 Uttam Kumaran: So about 2 years ago, I started this business. I was working. I was leading product as startup. And then I left that, and then I sort of was like, Okay, I’ve done some contracting here and there. Let me
36 00:06:29.600 ⇒ 00:06:49.689 Uttam Kumaran: see if I can sort of do my own thing, and just kind of like. Got a couple of clients and just started but I kind of made the foolish decision of having a bigger dreams than just having like one or 2 clients. And so I’ve just basically put all the money back in for like 2 years and sort of built this like a little bit of an organization. So.
37 00:06:49.690 ⇒ 00:06:50.150 jfroissart: Yeah.
38 00:06:50.150 ⇒ 00:06:52.424 Uttam Kumaran: We have about 15 people.
39 00:06:53.110 ⇒ 00:07:05.500 Uttam Kumaran: where we started off primarily doing sort of like full data stack work. So data modeling and Dbt and then reporting and Bi, and then also, like larger strategy, like procurement stuff like that.
40 00:07:05.500 ⇒ 00:07:06.020 jfroissart: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41 00:07:06.319 ⇒ 00:07:11.709 Uttam Kumaran: And then I was using AI to build a lot of the business. And then in the last
42 00:07:12.123 ⇒ 00:07:17.580 Uttam Kumaran: year or so, we actually started offering AI services as well. Just because we learned a lot about.
43 00:07:17.580 ⇒ 00:07:19.240 jfroissart: Building out Llms.
44 00:07:19.240 ⇒ 00:07:24.679 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, building out like agentic workflows, chat bots, rag systems.
45 00:07:24.680 ⇒ 00:07:25.050 jfroissart: Nice.
46 00:07:25.050 ⇒ 00:07:32.659 Uttam Kumaran: And then. Now, we’re kind of trying to merge a lot of the 2 which is like, once we do all the data, we can actually put a lot of that behind AI chat bots.
47 00:07:32.660 ⇒ 00:07:33.250 jfroissart: Right, right, right.
48 00:07:33.250 ⇒ 00:07:35.809 Uttam Kumaran: Questions, and the AI can start to make decisions.
49 00:07:36.020 ⇒ 00:07:54.659 Uttam Kumaran: But I’ve dude. I’ve just been frightening for like 2 years. Nonstop. It’s been insane. I mean, it’s been. It’s been a lot of highs of like having a great team, and, like, you know, being able to like recruit people and having awesome work. It’s also just been absolutely the hardest thing
50 00:07:54.870 ⇒ 00:08:05.120 Uttam Kumaran: ever on planet Earth that I’ve done. We we didn’t raise any money for the company which, like, I don’t know. I sort of go back and forth on a lot. But
51 00:08:05.250 ⇒ 00:08:11.639 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it’s that’s really tough, right? Because we sort of have to only can only invest once we like, have the cash in.
52 00:08:11.640 ⇒ 00:08:12.100 jfroissart: Right.
53 00:08:12.330 ⇒ 00:08:25.919 Uttam Kumaran: But we’re starting to reach a moment where you know the last few months we’ve really cracked a lot on the sales side, which is why you see it doing a lot and stuff on Linkedin. But we have a lot of channels going, and we’ve been able to get, you know, a pretty healthy stream of clients, and
54 00:08:26.020 ⇒ 00:08:45.890 Uttam Kumaran: I think right now where we’re more lacking is like we’re we’re recruiting for great project managers. And then we’re also trying to bring on sort of more senior people, basically because I’m 1 of like 2 or 3 of the most senior data people, you know. And I. I’m not doing as much. I’m not doing as much work, nor should I, because I’m the most unreliable person.
55 00:08:47.310 ⇒ 00:08:50.059 Uttam Kumaran: You know, on our team. So we’re just like.
56 00:08:50.060 ⇒ 00:08:51.870 jfroissart: At least you have that self realization.
57 00:08:51.870 ⇒ 00:09:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m not like stuff should not get assigned to me, because I am just like it will get done. But like maybe it’s like 4 am. It may like be like end of 2 weeks from now. I don’t know.
58 00:09:02.110 ⇒ 00:09:02.830 jfroissart: Right, yeah.
59 00:09:02.830 ⇒ 00:09:07.030 Uttam Kumaran: But also the company needs me to go sell more and like recruit more, and like.
60 00:09:07.030 ⇒ 00:09:08.129 jfroissart: Yeah, it’s a Facebook.
61 00:09:08.130 ⇒ 00:09:09.220 Uttam Kumaran: Things, you know.
62 00:09:09.220 ⇒ 00:09:10.580 jfroissart: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
63 00:09:11.340 ⇒ 00:09:22.970 jfroissart: I love the name man. It’s like, it’s definitely like, it’s, it’s it’s catchy right like it’s catchy. It’s unique. It’s like it. Also like applies. So like, yeah, great choice. Did you come up with that.
64 00:09:23.243 ⇒ 00:09:36.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, but it was a lot it was just like random names, and there’s no lore. Otherwise, I kind of told, we have, like one or 2 people on marketing. And I’m like, maybe you guys should just come up with the some like nice fake story and.
65 00:09:37.076 ⇒ 00:09:37.990 jfroissart: Oh, boy!
66 00:09:37.990 ⇒ 00:09:44.350 Uttam Kumaran: Because no, I just thought of it one day sitting at the coffee shop, and was like, I guess the name was like the last of my problems.
67 00:09:44.350 ⇒ 00:09:45.020 jfroissart: Yeah, yeah.
68 00:09:45.020 ⇒ 00:09:48.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But now it’s like, really important, it’s funny how that happens. Yeah.
69 00:09:49.110 ⇒ 00:09:52.400 jfroissart: Well, yeah, cause it’s part of it’s part of like the overall brand, right? Industry.
70 00:09:52.400 ⇒ 00:09:57.760 Uttam Kumaran: There also is like, you know, when you think about it, like when I think about Forge, you think about things Melding together.
71 00:09:57.760 ⇒ 00:09:58.240 jfroissart: Right.
72 00:09:58.240 ⇒ 00:10:10.680 Uttam Kumaran: Ideas Melding together. So I do think it’s a nice, I think about it a lot, but probably Mo. But in my company the most important thing is, our team like, that’s the only thing that matters, because that’s our, that’s our service.
73 00:10:10.680 ⇒ 00:10:11.549 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, for sure.
74 00:10:11.550 ⇒ 00:10:37.119 Uttam Kumaran: For me, it’s like, okay, we’ve I think we’ve been able to get great people. And now that we’re starting to take on clients, that one, it’s like, okay, we have great people. But I want us thinking about. Okay, how do I bring on folks that have seen it like so many times and can start to partner with like our clients. And like, okay, how do we even do reporting at scale or data visualization? But also we have a lot of great junior people that just need to see what it’s like to do that work in a
75 00:10:37.120 ⇒ 00:10:38.420 Uttam Kumaran: for sure it’s our free.
76 00:10:38.420 ⇒ 00:10:39.030 jfroissart: Sure.
77 00:10:39.030 ⇒ 00:10:43.540 Uttam Kumaran: And if I saw with them I could do it. But this is where, like I just we can’t. There’s no way.
78 00:10:43.540 ⇒ 00:11:00.669 jfroissart: Yeah, I mean, that’s honestly one of the things that we’re we’re constantly running into at Clarkson. It’s me and one other guy that like, know what it looks like from end to end, and like that, like what the steps are. But when you try to like, talk to somebody about what the end looks like and like. Give
79 00:11:00.790 ⇒ 00:11:13.233 jfroissart: even basic details of what those steps look like. If you’re just talking about it like either, people’s eyes roll in the back of their heads, or they just like lose interest because they’re not. They’re not following right? They don’t have the context. So
80 00:11:13.510 ⇒ 00:11:36.469 jfroissart: yeah, we’ve been trying to have like more like monthly meetings with, like some of the associates to say like, Hey, like, let’s showcase. Let’s showcase something that we built and talk about. You know some of the challenges that we ran into the beginning, and how you overcome them to like like, deliver this, and then on top of delivery like, what are the benefits that they that they like? The the client can get right from that end solution?
81 00:11:36.848 ⇒ 00:11:50.419 jfroissart: But yeah, I mean, that’s a great point, man, like a lot of people struggle to either like picture what all the steps are or like. Even understand what for? Right? Like, what you’re doing those things for so
82 00:11:51.542 ⇒ 00:11:56.379 jfroissart: real quick man. I I know we have. I have. I have like, 5 min before.
83 00:11:56.380 ⇒ 00:11:56.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
84 00:11:56.940 ⇒ 00:12:05.210 jfroissart: Like a training. Yeah, I’m so. The basis of what I understood is is kind of like trying to figure out how we can partner up.
85 00:12:05.210 ⇒ 00:12:05.610 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
86 00:12:05.610 ⇒ 00:12:11.040 jfroissart: On on certain things. But did you have like something like specific in mind, like.
87 00:12:11.040 ⇒ 00:12:11.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, there’s a kind
88 00:12:12.110 ⇒ 00:12:24.830 Uttam Kumaran: things I’m interested in. One is like, we have some clients that have just like straight up, data biz work. Where for me, I don’t have a great network of data, viz. Folks, and you’re the 1st person I thought of.
89 00:12:24.940 ⇒ 00:12:32.080 Uttam Kumaran: And so if there is work where it’s like sort of time. It’s not, of course, like full time, but it is something time box.
90 00:12:32.080 ⇒ 00:12:32.480 jfroissart: Yeah.
91 00:12:32.801 ⇒ 00:12:40.200 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s not like you gotta attend like a hundred meetings like we have. We sort of have different agile processes per team.
92 00:12:40.200 ⇒ 00:12:40.640 jfroissart: Okay.
93 00:12:40.640 ⇒ 00:12:42.070 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe that’s something that
94 00:12:42.290 ⇒ 00:12:46.409 Uttam Kumaran: you know you’d be interested in, maybe, like I don’t know. Like, what do you think about that?
95 00:12:46.410 ⇒ 00:13:13.459 jfroissart: Yeah, so definitely, from like an advisory standpoint, I I’m more than happy to be like involved in conversations and talk about best practices. I mean a lot of times. What happens is that that evolves into like development work. That’s the part where it’s like that’s that’s more like heads heads down, not knowing what you’re getting yourself into. So I yeah, definitely like, if you want to bring me in on like conversations, and I can like introduce myself in my background
96 00:13:13.460 ⇒ 00:13:23.899 jfroissart: and like talk about and get a better understanding on, like what the the need is, and like the best way to approach it. For sure, man, I’m I’m more than happy to to help out in those conversations.
97 00:13:24.391 ⇒ 00:13:34.300 jfroissart: If it does evolve to something else, and we can kind of just like, figure out how that, how that works. But if it’s just if it’s just from a advisory conversation perspective, I’m more than happy to jump in. Then.
98 00:13:34.430 ⇒ 00:13:41.216 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I think the second piece and that’s that’s perfect. I think, like none of this is like sign up. And it’s sort of like, not me anymore.
99 00:13:42.040 ⇒ 00:13:45.540 Uttam Kumaran: the other piece is just like, would you be interested in sort of talking to our team
100 00:13:45.980 ⇒ 00:13:50.029 Uttam Kumaran: recurring basis, just and reviewing like dashboards we put out and like.
101 00:13:50.030 ⇒ 00:13:50.570 jfroissart: Yeah.
102 00:13:50.570 ⇒ 00:14:01.560 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of I would love, because sort of what I’m thinking about doing is having some level of like coaches and advisors for the people in the business where it’s like, maybe it’s like once or twice a month.
103 00:14:01.710 ⇒ 00:14:10.929 Uttam Kumaran: and we do a showcase of like dashboards we built, and there’s like a critique or something like that. And that’s something where like 1 h session can be extremely valuable.
104 00:14:11.380 ⇒ 00:14:16.309 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s also I am able to get some money your way, and it’s like not much skin off your back.
105 00:14:16.440 ⇒ 00:14:16.840 jfroissart: Right.
106 00:14:16.840 ⇒ 00:14:29.810 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly for us, we get a lot of value because we don’t have that talent internally, and I want to connect connect our people that in case they want to spend another hour with you or something they can, they can get that. But again, purely in sort of an advisory or a coaching.
107 00:14:29.810 ⇒ 00:14:36.339 jfroissart: Yeah, for sure, man, I actually love that because I I feel like I’m I excel at kind of giving that.
108 00:14:36.480 ⇒ 00:14:48.169 jfroissart: It’s like that compliment sandwich right? Like to figure out where the strengths and the weaknesses are, but not make it like highlight any one or the other. So yeah, man I’m I’m I’m more than happy to help out there.
109 00:14:48.480 ⇒ 00:14:54.950 Uttam Kumaran: And then the my last ask is, gonna be if you know any great database folks or data analysts
110 00:14:55.210 ⇒ 00:14:58.180 Uttam Kumaran: we are about to start hiring for.
111 00:14:58.320 ⇒ 00:15:11.510 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, the titles could be product analyst data, analyst business analysts. Basically, what we’re looking for is not just people who are like turn dashboards out. But people that can actually like ask questions about the data.
112 00:15:11.510 ⇒ 00:15:11.900 jfroissart: Yeah.
113 00:15:11.900 ⇒ 00:15:18.520 Uttam Kumaran: Have some business model sense. You know. And the roles could have been operations. Analyst business analyst
114 00:15:18.640 ⇒ 00:15:35.940 Uttam Kumaran: could be data analyst. It could be revenue analysts like there’s that’s kind of like what we’re going for. But ideally, we’re not we. I don’t really care. Even those people know sequel because they can use. AI probably figure it out, but more that they’re able to interrogate data. If anyone comes to your mind, even if they don’t purposely fit that you’re like Yo. This is someone good
115 00:15:36.150 ⇒ 00:15:41.639 Uttam Kumaran: and like you should just talk to them and see what you can. They can do. We’re would 100 be open to intros.
116 00:15:41.640 ⇒ 00:15:45.609 jfroissart: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, let me keep that in mind. I gotta hop back my my call just started.
117 00:15:45.610 ⇒ 00:15:46.060 Uttam Kumaran: That’s okay.
118 00:15:46.060 ⇒ 00:15:48.700 jfroissart: Let’s try to regroup next week, or something like I’ll talk about in more detail.
119 00:15:48.700 ⇒ 00:15:49.899 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay. Perfect. Alright.
120 00:15:49.900 ⇒ 00:15:51.070 jfroissart: Great seeing you, man, bye.