Meeting Title: Brainforge x Zoran Selinger Intro Call Date: 2025-07-30 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Zoran Selinger
WEBVTT
1 00:00:08.690 ⇒ 00:00:09.850 Uttam Kumaran: Hello!
2 00:00:10.430 ⇒ 00:00:11.829 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry for the delay.
3 00:00:12.270 ⇒ 00:00:14.389 Zoran Selinger: Hello, no worries, no worries.
4 00:00:15.160 ⇒ 00:00:21.860 Uttam Kumaran: Team, and it’s it’s good. We’re working on some cool stuff. So just getting distracted.
5 00:00:21.860 ⇒ 00:00:25.035 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I mean, that’s good. Ha! Actually happens to me a lot.
6 00:00:25.902 ⇒ 00:00:32.597 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, well, really, great. Yeah, really. Great to be. Thank you for taking the time. I I appreciate it.
7 00:00:33.010 ⇒ 00:00:38.640 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I mean, I’m i i saw your note in the measure channel, and and just curious to get a sense of
8 00:00:38.670 ⇒ 00:00:57.279 Uttam Kumaran: your background, and like what your your goals are and what you’re interested in, of course, happy to share as much about brainforge and and what we’re working on sort of like, maybe a little bit of background. So the CEO of Brainforge is a company. I started about 2 years ago.
9 00:00:57.280 ⇒ 00:01:12.159 Uttam Kumaran: We’re primarily a data analytics and AI consultancy. I’m based here in Austin, Texas. Team is everywhere like us and around the world. We’re completely remote company. Most of all of our clients are primarily here in the
10 00:01:12.240 ⇒ 00:01:35.509 Uttam Kumaran: in the States, though. Yeah. So we started off as a data analytics consultancy. And then I was using AI a lot to build a business actually. And then kind of in the last year we started going to market with AI related services. So now we sort of do both. In addition to actually continuing to build out our internal AI platform that supports our work.
11 00:01:37.540 ⇒ 00:01:55.340 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, we we sort of are, do a lot of stuff on the data side, almost like full stack data, including product analytics, Cdp data strategy all the way down to data, warehousing data modeling and on the AI side. It’s a lot of building internal agents, co-pilots, rag based systems for clients.
12 00:01:56.074 ⇒ 00:02:05.035 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we’re about 15 people. Mostly engineers. My my background is in engineering. I was a data engineer. I led some data teams before this.
13 00:02:06.190 ⇒ 00:02:18.243 Uttam Kumaran: and yeah, that’s like the for shortest kind of spiel. I feel like I usually ramble for a long time. That’s like that’s a lot of what we are. I’m happy to take and go into any part of that. But
14 00:02:19.050 ⇒ 00:02:20.690 Uttam Kumaran: that’s sort of the overview.
15 00:02:21.030 ⇒ 00:02:43.650 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah, okay, that that’s cool. I I mean, I was, I was on the website. I was looking at at everything really looks really interesting. So generally in in my work, I’ve worked with a lot of kinda kinda newer companies with with, you know, less than 20 people. And it’s kind of what I’m what I’m used to.
16 00:02:44.810 ⇒ 00:02:50.089 Zoran Selinger: So that immediately looks very interesting to me.
17 00:02:50.890 ⇒ 00:03:20.260 Zoran Selinger: so my background, I mean, I started almost 15 years ago, we in digital marketing. I was for basically for 9 1st 9 years of that, my focus was Ppc, that was always the technical part of the teams. That’s just how I am. I like technical stuff. So I was always taking anything technical that I I could from the teams automation reporting
18 00:03:20.490 ⇒ 00:03:25.139 Zoran Selinger: and then obviously analytics as well. So that
19 00:03:25.650 ⇒ 00:03:32.102 Zoran Selinger: with time turned into into actually doing more custom and custom stuff.
20 00:03:32.840 ⇒ 00:03:52.721 Zoran Selinger: so I built a few like a a little bit of anomaly detection, and and, like custom customs, custom things for campaign managers. I built a whole suite of tools for myself. And I was managing Ppc, simply because, yeah, yeah, I like, I like that part I like that part of it.
21 00:03:53.350 ⇒ 00:04:03.470 Zoran Selinger: throughout this whole time I was I was doing. I was doing analytics projects. So that was, that’s kind of my bread and butter. Gtm,
22 00:04:04.716 ⇒ 00:04:17.720 Zoran Selinger: is, you know, Google analytics have done everything basically there is to do there. Including industry talks and building tools and and doing training sessions with clients, all of that.
23 00:04:17.970 ⇒ 00:04:20.709 Zoran Selinger: So that I like that a lot.
24 00:04:20.880 ⇒ 00:04:24.572 Zoran Selinger: basically over the last couple of years.
25 00:04:25.240 ⇒ 00:04:36.060 Zoran Selinger: I started getting into AI a little bit more. But really, seriously. Only this year, where I included when I started, kinda
26 00:04:36.490 ⇒ 00:04:48.993 Zoran Selinger: including AI into my daily work a lot, especially because I mean over the last 4 or 5 years. I’m mostly engineering. I’m I’m mostly doing doing
27 00:04:49.920 ⇒ 00:04:53.079 Zoran Selinger: cloud development for marketing agencies, some below
28 00:04:53.490 ⇒ 00:04:55.159 Zoran Selinger: building stuff on the back end.
29 00:04:56.400 ⇒ 00:05:19.079 Zoran Selinger: and obviously, air fits nicely nicely into that. And a little bit more. More recently, like AI automation seems like a thing. And I I really wanted to ask you? What’s the platform are you using? Make? And a 10 are you using no code platforms, or are you? Are you? You? Are you coding those solutions.
30 00:05:19.080 ⇒ 00:05:36.190 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I would say, we’re doing a little bit of both and coding ourselves. Like my, I don’t. I actually like in my career. No code. Low code platforms are usually really crappy. So I kinda did not want to build on any end
31 00:05:36.490 ⇒ 00:05:37.170 Uttam Kumaran: I like.
32 00:05:37.290 ⇒ 00:05:48.549 Uttam Kumaran: Look, I’m an engineer like. I’m like, why we should like, I don’t want to do, drag and drop, but what I found is that one I need. I need people outside of engineering to be able to build things
33 00:05:48.600 ⇒ 00:06:11.780 Uttam Kumaran: right. That’s 1 thing that Nadn is really great, like editing prompts. That’s something that if that was in a Github. If that was in a repo and a file somewhere, a Pm. Couldn’t go edit it or like our recruiting team couldn’t go edit it right? So I want non technical people to be able to edit. Second, it’s hard to recruit dude for this type of role. So there’s not much talent that
34 00:06:12.360 ⇒ 00:06:19.689 Uttam Kumaran: a lot of the talent that came in the last few years, and a who are focused on AI. A lot of them don’t even know how to code.
35 00:06:19.880 ⇒ 00:06:42.049 Uttam Kumaran: So a lot of them are used to just using AI to vibe code or building on any. Then for me to even get talent as a business owner. I found that it’s good. So we do a lot on Nan. And then, as the Nan gets really complex, we take we, we will typically move it out there. So far it’s been fine, though it’s actually it’s not we. A lot of our use. Cases aren’t like very real time
36 00:06:42.663 ⇒ 00:06:50.289 Uttam Kumaran: or like super demanding meaning. We need like very low latency, or we, we’re not building products. So
37 00:06:50.630 ⇒ 00:06:57.259 Uttam Kumaran: these are workflows, agentic workflows, co-pilots, some chat bots, but a lot of rag.
38 00:06:57.868 ⇒ 00:07:17.920 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a mix of python and N, and we also again we send web hooks or send Api calls in and out of an so it’s actually fine for now. But we’re using Nann for everything. I found it to be the best and have the most community support. You know. But we’re not doing like a lot of the stuff that’s on Linkedin, where it’s like Ninn to like.
39 00:07:18.070 ⇒ 00:07:20.870 Uttam Kumaran: Replace, like all your team or any into like
40 00:07:22.640 ⇒ 00:07:40.700 Uttam Kumaran: to send like a hundred 1,000 crappy emails like we’re we’re using in a very pointed fashion for problems that are very well defined. And and that’s how we built a whole sort of business and project management around doing that. And so for our clients, you know, these are typically
41 00:07:40.910 ⇒ 00:08:06.690 Uttam Kumaran: companies that are making like 20 to 100 million in revenue, like mid market private businesses here in the States, but sort of a wide array of companies. But a lot of them their challenges that they want to find efficiency in their business, and they don’t, they? Yes, I think there’s a lot of people at the smaller level doing AI, but they need, like a partner, right to come and understand and really develop a solutions across data. And AI. So that’s what we sort of try to be for them.
42 00:08:07.090 ⇒ 00:08:18.279 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah, I I’m working for for like, over the last few years, mostly working for one agency, that is, marketing agency that is doing a lot of that. So the.
43 00:08:18.676 ⇒ 00:08:19.470 Uttam Kumaran: Really nice.
44 00:08:19.470 ⇒ 00:08:23.330 Zoran Selinger: I mean they they are they
45 00:08:23.660 ⇒ 00:08:27.749 Zoran Selinger: insist on being a a member of the board, basically.
46 00:08:28.220 ⇒ 00:08:32.650 Zoran Selinger: Oh, real partners when they when they get.
47 00:08:32.659 ⇒ 00:08:35.749 Uttam Kumaran: When they come in. They’re like, Yo, we’re actually gonna take a piece of business or something.
48 00:08:35.750 ⇒ 00:08:38.569 Uttam Kumaran: We don’t even call them clients. They’re partners.
49 00:08:38.570 ⇒ 00:08:39.159 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50 00:08:39.169 ⇒ 00:08:50.219 Zoran Selinger: Right? So it’s a yeah so I understand. And I think that’s a that’s a great approach. Because you do. You do have. you have.
51 00:08:51.089 ⇒ 00:08:53.339 Zoran Selinger: Basically, you have power
52 00:08:53.579 ⇒ 00:09:07.329 Zoran Selinger: to analyze. But also you’re getting, you’re they take you seriously when you suggest something. And that is that is really, that is really really great. So you were looking at at
53 00:09:07.489 ⇒ 00:09:17.469 Zoran Selinger: my message. There, so do you do a lot of lot of that. What are you missing at the moment in terms of let’s let’s let’s say talent.
54 00:09:17.920 ⇒ 00:09:44.899 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean one. I’m kind of curious on, like, what are the specific tools beyond, like Ga, that you typically work with? I mean again, to give you a sense of the data work that we have. Now, we have a lot. We do a lot of product analytics work. So that’s amplitude segment. Mix panel. We also do some marketing work for clients which can be in all the various ad managers. But it’s also like measurement of the performance.
55 00:09:45.220 ⇒ 00:10:01.689 Uttam Kumaran: We’re. I’m trying to do a lot less of that, though, just because it could be like day trading. And there’s not really a lot of like, it’s tough. It’s just not like there’s not always a clear goal for that team. They’re just like someone cares about. Cpm, someone cares about Ltv, and then
56 00:10:01.760 ⇒ 00:10:19.500 Uttam Kumaran: those people that never talk. And you know, and that’s like a, it’s, I’ve just done a lot of marketing optimization, related data stuff. But what we are interested in is minimizing churn, maximizing profit per customer, maximizing revenue per customer, shorting on shortening, onboarding times.
57 00:10:20.274 ⇒ 00:10:25.269 Uttam Kumaran: Also measuring revenue from different conversion, sources.
58 00:10:25.875 ⇒ 00:10:40.090 Uttam Kumaran: Measuring customer performance from different revenue from different conversion sources. A lot of that can be locked into shopify can be locked into segment or amplitude. And then we do so on the data side, though we do a lot of Dvt work
59 00:10:40.410 ⇒ 00:10:53.779 Uttam Kumaran: data warehouse, we use snowflake or or bigquery. You know any of the more common ones. And then we also do tableau, looker and stuff like that. I would say a lot of what we’re looking for though, is for me, is like kind of people that are at.
60 00:10:54.050 ⇒ 00:11:14.509 Uttam Kumaran: you know, a little bit at a higher level, where they can meet with the operators in our client projects and actually start to scope some of these work streams work to basically create the task. And then, whether it’s that person or someone on our team executing that. That’s what I more need. I think we’re okay on people that are like.
61 00:11:14.840 ⇒ 00:11:32.310 Uttam Kumaran: okay, I can take a ticket and do it. But I want people. The person who like understands like what is in the ticket. And how does this flow into a work stream like, for example, I’m we’re working with, like, the head of marketing. Okay? Like, what are the actual things they care about? What is their incentive to get this right? And like, what are the
62 00:11:32.550 ⇒ 00:11:55.639 Uttam Kumaran: what all like? What are the steps needed to achieve? That is like kind of the next part of our journey is getting that level. You could consider this in a typical consultancy, right? Like on any project. We have a couple of different roles. We have, like the account executive, which is like kind of the sales side. We have the project manager. We typically have a solutions architect, a tech lead and engineers.
63 00:11:57.230 ⇒ 00:12:01.009 Uttam Kumaran: Right? So this is somewhere between, like solutions. Architect
64 00:12:01.110 ⇒ 00:12:24.591 Uttam Kumaran: tech lead, the project management. We’re running everything like scrum sprints and things like that, right? And the account executive is typically me. It’s like the salesperson like. How do we go in and make sure we’re delivering? How do I start to have conversations about renewal? So this is more on, like the solutions, architecture and or like on, also on like the development side, to take on the more challenging development pieces.
65 00:12:25.140 ⇒ 00:12:31.559 Uttam Kumaran: that’s kind of like what we’re looking for again. That’s a lot I know, like, so I’m kind of just curious about if any of that
66 00:12:31.840 ⇒ 00:12:33.810 Uttam Kumaran: resonates with any of those tools
67 00:12:33.910 ⇒ 00:12:38.150 Uttam Kumaran: you know you’ve had familiarity with. And then also, like, yeah, like what your
68 00:12:38.830 ⇒ 00:12:41.790 Uttam Kumaran: where you’re in in your sort of journey and stuff.
69 00:12:42.160 ⇒ 00:12:45.910 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, sure. So listen. Gen, generally speaking, so
70 00:12:46.950 ⇒ 00:13:02.939 Zoran Selinger: typically when I land I you, I usually land in kind of early stage stage companies, because I’m a little bit of a generalist, but that kind of gives me kind of a unique advantage over over. I really do. I started freelancing
71 00:13:03.080 ⇒ 00:13:09.400 Zoran Selinger: from the get go right so I’ve I’ve worked on so many different different things.
72 00:13:09.400 ⇒ 00:13:10.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
73 00:13:10.880 ⇒ 00:13:11.310 Zoran Selinger: Again.
74 00:13:11.310 ⇒ 00:13:15.010 Uttam Kumaran: The drill like you know what I’m talking about when it’s like you have to dance a little bit.
75 00:13:15.938 ⇒ 00:13:19.350 Uttam Kumaran: But also again, like typical engineers.
76 00:13:19.760 ⇒ 00:13:28.880 Uttam Kumaran: especially product engineers like people in companies. They’re not used to going in front of a client. That’s different. Right? It’s like consulting is almost 50% communication
77 00:13:29.010 ⇒ 00:13:43.520 Uttam Kumaran: right? Like the work, is commonly the same. A lot is the same. But like who you’re dealing with, what they’re actually interested in, how it needs to be presented. That’s the art. That’s the dance part of it. Right? So I hear you, yeah.
78 00:13:43.860 ⇒ 00:14:00.723 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. So I do have experience with mostly with with segment. We. I’ve done a lot. It’s it’s it’s not recent work, though. It’s it’s been a while since I I like a lot of I like explicit tracking a lot.
79 00:14:01.230 ⇒ 00:14:09.539 Zoran Selinger: So those platforms that kind of like product tracking where we’re tracking everything. But this is like
80 00:14:09.760 ⇒ 00:14:10.750 Zoran Selinger: this is.
81 00:14:11.140 ⇒ 00:14:36.459 Zoran Selinger: I prefer to be very explicit with tracking. So we I don’t. I don’t like the shotgun solutions very much, but obviously sometimes they’re needed, and that that’s obviously fine. Right? I went through a a a phase of implementing snowplow for clients. And and so I have experience with those with those things. It’s generally I do understand
82 00:14:36.590 ⇒ 00:14:46.859 Zoran Selinger: the marketing side and the technical side very well, and I can. Generally speaking, we communicate that very well. And you were
83 00:14:46.970 ⇒ 00:14:51.150 Zoran Selinger: your listing kind of people in the team, and I do.
84 00:14:51.390 ⇒ 00:15:00.639 Zoran Selinger: even before you said it. Solutions architect sounds like that would be suitable for for me somewhere there, right?
85 00:15:01.685 ⇒ 00:15:02.190 Zoran Selinger: Oh.
86 00:15:03.030 ⇒ 00:15:16.350 Zoran Selinger: so yeah, that’s just that’s just it. Like, right now I’m working for a for a marketing agency in us it. Just I’m building mostly at the moment tools for campaign managers.
87 00:15:16.970 ⇒ 00:15:21.929 Zoran Selinger: Just stuff to automate, and maybe have a little bit more more intelligence
88 00:15:22.740 ⇒ 00:15:25.280 Zoran Selinger: of of the campaign performance and all that.
89 00:15:25.280 ⇒ 00:15:25.970 Uttam Kumaran: Sure, sure.
90 00:15:25.970 ⇒ 00:15:29.569 Zoran Selinger: They love me because I because I was.
91 00:15:29.570 ⇒ 00:15:31.479 Uttam Kumaran: You get both sides, you get both sides.
92 00:15:31.480 ⇒ 00:15:33.790 Zoran Selinger: I get. I was managing campaigns. It’s.
93 00:15:33.790 ⇒ 00:16:00.839 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s why they like us to do. Because I’m a data. I’m a data engineer, and so they meet me. But for some reason like I can speak the business language. I get what they’re saying. I don’t get them with like too much jargon, but then I can go to our engineers and really break down like what needs to happen. Right? So for us, the challenges. We have great project managers, and they’re very diligent, and then they can execute and get people to do it. But like there’s only like one or 2 of us that are like, I’m still doing a lot of solution architect work.
94 00:16:00.870 ⇒ 00:16:17.130 Uttam Kumaran: because, like, I still know technically what needs to be done. And so that’s sort of where we’re trying to find people that are at like that level come out of projects. And again, not not for some projects that may be a few hours from Prom. For projects you could do solutions, architect and go execute as well.
95 00:16:17.457 ⇒ 00:16:35.479 Uttam Kumaran: This is where I’m more fluid with like, I want to take advantage of people like you, who are generalists in the fact that you can do multiple things. So boxing you in to say like, Oh, just come in as like a developer. I would never get a chance for you to do the higher level thinking. But similarly, we’re not. We’re not like.
96 00:16:35.640 ⇒ 00:16:40.300 Uttam Kumaran: we’re not like Ibm consulting where we have like 10, we have a hundred people per client. Right?
97 00:16:40.300 ⇒ 00:16:40.740 Zoran Selinger: Of course.
98 00:16:40.740 ⇒ 00:16:49.280 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s sort of like we have some junior people. We have more senior people, and I still do development work. But again, I take the stuff that’s like.
99 00:16:49.530 ⇒ 00:17:18.197 Uttam Kumaran: either like we don’t have the people with expertise for, or if they did it, it would take 4 weeks, and I’ll do it in like 2 h right like. That’s the sort of stuff that I still take on. But then for me, a lot of my time is spending time with the project managers and with the team. But this is also the difference on us is we use AI, for, like everything, so from transcripts to creating tickets to creating project plans to creating architecture like
100 00:17:18.660 ⇒ 00:17:30.030 Uttam Kumaran: every way you could use. We were using it. Everybody gets cursor. Everybody’s like leveraging the latest tools to to do their work. So that’s a another. I feel like benefit
101 00:17:30.270 ⇒ 00:17:37.657 Uttam Kumaran: that we have is like we just, we’re we move fast. But also everything just gets leveled up like the quality, you know.
102 00:17:38.460 ⇒ 00:17:47.319 Zoran Selinger: I’m I’m a cursor user and gemini pro and all that stuff. Jen, I mean, I’m just gonna like, Be honest.
103 00:17:47.460 ⇒ 00:17:55.810 Zoran Selinger: you know what I enjoy the most when I when I start working for for usually I have, my clients are a long term relationship.
104 00:17:55.810 ⇒ 00:17:56.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
105 00:17:56.350 ⇒ 00:18:05.999 Zoran Selinger: Yep, that’s multiple years I usually work for for my clients. I like when I start being the kind of main problem solver
106 00:18:06.630 ⇒ 00:18:08.429 Zoran Selinger: that happens a lot with me.
107 00:18:08.730 ⇒ 00:18:09.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
108 00:18:09.230 ⇒ 00:18:09.980 Zoran Selinger: I have a twin brother.
109 00:18:10.485 ⇒ 00:18:10.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
110 00:18:10.990 ⇒ 00:18:14.320 Zoran Selinger: Downloaded his work as well. Yeah, kind of
111 00:18:14.480 ⇒ 00:18:30.959 Zoran Selinger: tend to become the main problem solvers. A lot of people start coming up to us and ask for help with certain things like when I’m in that position. I love that very much. Obviously this is not a super narrow role, right.
112 00:18:30.960 ⇒ 00:18:35.589 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I hear you. No, I totally. In fact, this is where for me, when I I tell my team
113 00:18:35.950 ⇒ 00:18:41.220 Uttam Kumaran: we’re not data engineers. We’re like we are coming in to solve problems and deliver outcomes.
114 00:18:41.220 ⇒ 00:18:41.720 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, that.
115 00:18:41.720 ⇒ 00:18:48.079 Uttam Kumaran: And of course, as you know, if you’re the only person in a company that’s good at solving problems, the problems will find you cause. They know
116 00:18:48.710 ⇒ 00:19:14.320 Uttam Kumaran: what you’re the one that can edit. So for every all our clients, I never say no, but it’s also like we don’t do everything I will. If there’s work. For example, we stopped doing a lot of marketing analytics. It’s just so much time. And always we’re dealing with like the attribution is wrong or my systems aren’t the same. I said I. After doing it for so long, I said, we’re no longer. But I’m like I’m 1 phone call away from someone that I know that can help you from that. Right? So
117 00:19:14.320 ⇒ 00:19:15.210 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, we
118 00:19:15.210 ⇒ 00:19:32.220 Uttam Kumaran: we solve the we solve the problems in any way we can. And similarly, across all of those different parts of the data stack and the AI Stack, we have great vendor partnerships. We have great other agency partnerships. So, for example, we we don’t do a lot of segment implementation ourselves. We have a partner that that does that.
119 00:19:32.710 ⇒ 00:19:42.289 Uttam Kumaran: And so if we, if they ask us to do it. Look, I could I go hire some segment implementers and implement front end events? Yes, but I want to sit at the strategic level
120 00:19:42.560 ⇒ 00:20:01.980 Uttam Kumaran: and have us sit there and then be like cool. Well, I’ll I’ll refer you to some great people that can do that. We’ll all work together to make that happen, and it gets us to stay in that seat and get all the benefit without having to like. Okay, we’re gonna go now, do something that we have no idea. For example, we have clients that like, Hey, you guys do great job on data. Can you do build Ios apps? No.
121 00:20:02.110 ⇒ 00:20:12.039 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna do that. But I have. I have some great friends that you that are, that are the best at doing that, that you should go call right. So
122 00:20:12.130 ⇒ 00:20:39.469 Uttam Kumaran: I want us to be in the sphere of influence, where our sphere of influence is overlap with, like our sphere of genius, meaning like what we are actually good at is what we should actually be doing versus chasing, like the next thing. So that’s where we’re starting to get more focused. But every client is different and every client I don’t want to be just like consultants where it’s like, Oh, like, I gotta that’s blocked. I’m gonna have to wait for somebody, or like
123 00:20:39.640 ⇒ 00:20:50.169 Uttam Kumaran: or like, oh, that’s not something we touch, like the natural consultant motion for consultancies as we grow is like that where you have all these people. Nobody really cares like.
124 00:20:50.400 ⇒ 00:20:59.639 Uttam Kumaran: I’m trying to avoid that as much as possible. Which is actually why I’m trying to talk to people who are ex consultants or run their own thing, as you know what it’s like to own
125 00:20:59.910 ⇒ 00:21:02.439 Uttam Kumaran: with the relationship. Own the problem.
126 00:21:03.720 ⇒ 00:21:07.409 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s what kind of like what we’re trying to kind of bring onto the team.
127 00:21:07.920 ⇒ 00:21:12.560 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, excellent. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like I, I can help there.
128 00:21:14.430 ⇒ 00:21:17.120 Zoran Selinger: So you’re you’re talking to to more people.
129 00:21:17.420 ⇒ 00:21:23.109 Uttam Kumaran: We’re talking to several people, I mean, I guess I’m interested in like, what is your like bandwidth these days.
130 00:21:23.320 ⇒ 00:21:30.749 Uttam Kumaran: and like even like, what are you thinking about, long term like, I know you’ve been doing freelance for a while like, what are you thinking about?
131 00:21:31.730 ⇒ 00:21:34.250 Zoran Selinger: Yeah long term.
132 00:21:35.388 ⇒ 00:21:41.090 Zoran Selinger: Listen, really, the biggest thing I I care about is
133 00:21:41.300 ⇒ 00:21:46.379 Zoran Selinger: the team I’m I’m working with. That’s really I. that’s really
134 00:21:46.750 ⇒ 00:21:51.180 Zoran Selinger: the the most important thing. If I’m if I’m you know.
135 00:21:51.500 ⇒ 00:21:56.590 Zoran Selinger: so like sufficient level of challenge. And of course, work life balance.
136 00:21:56.720 ⇒ 00:22:03.480 Zoran Selinger: That’s that’s phenomenal. Right? I’m so. I have
137 00:22:04.070 ⇒ 00:22:29.039 Zoran Selinger: been doing freelancing, and I I enjoy the structure of this work right? The flexibility I have. I don’t. I don’t tend to break deadlines or anything. I’m usually. I’m usually kind of very punctual and so there’s I’ve never had an issue. It suits me personality. Wise. It suits me to be a to be a remote just in my own office and
138 00:22:29.480 ⇒ 00:22:46.884 Zoran Selinger: doing work just. I’ve been doing that for so long. I was. By the way, I I did spend a portion of my career sitting in an office in an agency in Dublin. It was great, a phenomenal team. Not nothing. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just
139 00:22:47.770 ⇒ 00:22:55.312 Zoran Selinger: came back to to Croatia because it’s just more better suited for a family. Right, continued Freelancing, just.
140 00:22:55.840 ⇒ 00:23:01.530 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m the same way I sat, and I was. I used to work in New York for a while, and I was in office for a while, and
141 00:23:01.730 ⇒ 00:23:30.959 Uttam Kumaran: this is not that like. But this, the thing is, is like a lot of agencies and consultancies. There’s no camaraderie in the business. It’s just like one client, one client, one client for me. That’s what I don’t really like about a lot of agencies is like, I want us to learn from every client as a crew. Right? It’s not that we all have to be like Buddy Buddy, and that we’re not going to Mars right? This is a this is like a technical firm. But there are things we can learn across clients to start to build our own like brain, forge.
142 00:23:31.230 ⇒ 00:23:50.159 Uttam Kumaran: platform and platform. All it is is like a series of tools, processes, learnings, right like, that’s all a platform is. And those are the things that if we are just to take every client, and like nobody knows each other. There’s no cross team like sharing. Then, like
143 00:23:50.620 ⇒ 00:23:59.690 Uttam Kumaran: we’re every client is individual. We’re almost starting like 10 businesses over again. Right? And so we want. Every time we have a client we have to learn, and the next client gets a better
144 00:24:00.179 ⇒ 00:24:26.359 Uttam Kumaran: you know, experience from us. It’s faster. We’re cleaner, and then we’re able to, of course, bring more. Bring in more money. And so that’s where we’re going like, I think, when I started the business it had a lot of freelancers and contractors helping me, but it it just felt like nobody cared because we were their second business, right like they were working somewhere else, and they were freelancing for us, or they were balancing a couple of things
145 00:24:26.500 ⇒ 00:24:30.660 Uttam Kumaran: for me. I only play for my team right? I only play for one team.
146 00:24:30.660 ⇒ 00:24:30.945 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
147 00:24:31.230 ⇒ 00:24:35.029 Uttam Kumaran: So we’re we’re like, then that’s the truth. And I told everyone that I said, Look.
148 00:24:35.340 ⇒ 00:25:01.849 Uttam Kumaran: I play for Team Brain Forge. I want to create a I want to create the best company I can. That’s doing this work. But I want to have the best people to do that but also like, I want the flexibility of remote, and which is what we did. We have people everywhere. I want to get people. And typically I, I find that people that have done that successfully have had that agency where they figured it out. They they know how to go get clients. They’ve they’ve been able to manage their own stuff.
149 00:25:02.140 ⇒ 00:25:08.119 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s sort of like what we’re interested in, sort of building as a broader team. I mean even to start, though it doesn’t have to be
150 00:25:08.340 ⇒ 00:25:14.689 Uttam Kumaran: like full time or anything. But I don’t know. I do think that as we grow like, we’re trying to build
151 00:25:14.860 ⇒ 00:25:18.340 Uttam Kumaran: like a really really strong team, you know. So.
152 00:25:18.340 ⇒ 00:25:20.769 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I understand. I mean, that’s
153 00:25:21.130 ⇒ 00:25:32.570 Zoran Selinger: one of what main things that I would describe myself as even even as a from childhood is loyalty. And I do like, I have clients.
154 00:25:32.670 ⇒ 00:25:34.930 Zoran Selinger: are we? You’re yeah.
155 00:25:34.930 ⇒ 00:25:36.030 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no, I’m here. I’m here. I’m here.
156 00:25:36.030 ⇒ 00:25:41.810 Zoran Selinger: Little bit off. Okay, I have. I have clients that I’ve had since day one.
157 00:25:42.368 ⇒ 00:25:45.411 Zoran Selinger: I have clients that invite me to their weddings.
158 00:25:45.780 ⇒ 00:25:46.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
159 00:25:46.330 ⇒ 00:26:03.489 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so I I am. I am used to that. And I love that even when I, when I don’t work on upwork a lot because I do have enough work because I do have long relationships, right? But when I do, I I like to stress that I’m looking for a
160 00:26:03.600 ⇒ 00:26:05.560 Zoran Selinger: for a long term relationship.
161 00:26:07.500 ⇒ 00:26:08.440 Zoran Selinger: Ask?
162 00:26:08.790 ⇒ 00:26:11.370 Zoran Selinger: I like to do that if I like the crew.
163 00:26:11.720 ⇒ 00:26:30.209 Zoran Selinger: If I like the work, of course, I wanna I wanna be there. And I told you before, I like early stage companies that are, you know, a couple of years I I’ve landed in multiple companies where I was less than 15 companies, and I’ve been with them
164 00:26:30.990 ⇒ 00:26:33.080 Zoran Selinger: until they had 100 and plus right.
165 00:26:33.080 ⇒ 00:26:33.889 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
166 00:26:33.890 ⇒ 00:26:36.019 Zoran Selinger: That’s I love that right.
167 00:26:36.020 ⇒ 00:26:36.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
168 00:26:37.270 ⇒ 00:26:38.045 Zoran Selinger: So
169 00:26:39.725 ⇒ 00:27:04.590 Zoran Selinger: in terms of in terms of kind of my availability at the moment. I’m only work right now. I’m only working for 2 clients. One is one is just a very small consultant like support stuff. So just so they can sleep just so they can sleep better. I tend to do a lot of those as well over over the years they like. I
170 00:27:04.770 ⇒ 00:27:14.479 Zoran Selinger: people trust me after a while, when you do, when you do good work they trust you, and if you stop doing, cousin, stop stop doing Ppc work, they still, for
171 00:27:15.050 ⇒ 00:27:16.840 Zoran Selinger: 2 or 3 years after that
172 00:27:17.150 ⇒ 00:27:23.799 Zoran Selinger: they were paying me just to have a have a quick glance over the account. For 2 years after that.
173 00:27:23.800 ⇒ 00:27:29.759 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, look, our 1st client is still with us, and we’ve been in business 2 years. Most of our clients are.
174 00:27:30.050 ⇒ 00:27:48.400 Uttam Kumaran: are tend to tend to work with us with at least a year, and we’ve only been in business 2 years like, and we’ve only really been in in like serious business for like 8 months like it only recently started to grow. So for me, I tell our team like, Look, that’s a Testament to what we’ve built, you know, in our process.
175 00:27:50.240 ⇒ 00:27:53.519 Zoran Selinger: Generally speaking, how I feel about
176 00:27:53.640 ⇒ 00:27:56.490 Zoran Selinger: my clients. I feel like an employee.
177 00:27:56.990 ⇒ 00:28:03.610 Uttam Kumaran: No, I said, yeah, I said, we have to be their best employee. Other, because we’re also the 1st people to get fired.
178 00:28:03.610 ⇒ 00:28:04.449 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, of course.
179 00:28:04.450 ⇒ 00:28:05.649 Uttam Kumaran: Not their best employee.
180 00:28:06.105 ⇒ 00:28:06.560 Zoran Selinger: Someone.
181 00:28:06.560 ⇒ 00:28:11.189 Uttam Kumaran: In a meeting is, gonna say, hey, like, who are these guys? You know? What are we paying them.
182 00:28:11.750 ⇒ 00:28:21.479 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, when, like I attend, when I when I comment when I talk with friends, I tend to like, I speak as if I’m an employee.
183 00:28:21.700 ⇒ 00:28:22.560 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
184 00:28:23.643 ⇒ 00:28:33.610 Zoran Selinger: That’s how I feel. I like to to have that kind of relationships. And for I’ve been fortunate enough to do so over the last
185 00:28:33.920 ⇒ 00:28:36.007 Zoran Selinger: over a decade. Right?
186 00:28:36.720 ⇒ 00:28:37.710 Zoran Selinger: And
187 00:28:38.220 ⇒ 00:28:48.287 Zoran Selinger: things you guys doing simply interest me. And it looks it sounds like I could fit. There’s a role that I could fit honestly
188 00:28:48.800 ⇒ 00:29:05.669 Zoran Selinger: like I’ve been working for this this other client that I that I had for a while now it’s been almost 7 years now, I think, yeah, it’s been almost 7 years and my my role changed. I was at
189 00:29:05.670 ⇒ 00:29:24.479 Zoran Selinger: I was dealing with tracking first.st I was just simply because it there are like full service marketing agency so they’re doing a lot of that. But then I wanted to actually start doing engineering for the 1st time, but it was always my my wish. And then Covid came
190 00:29:24.540 ⇒ 00:29:34.109 Zoran Selinger: marketing. Budgets got slashed immediately, and at that point in time I was working for my Dublin agency remotely.
191 00:29:34.300 ⇒ 00:29:52.150 Zoran Selinger: Just Ppc, right? So. But I just couldn’t let them go because they couldn’t replace me quickly or easily. So I just had to manage accounts for them, continue. I I didn’t want to leave them right in in a
192 00:29:52.350 ⇒ 00:29:54.309 Zoran Selinger: for them to have a problem right?
193 00:29:54.470 ⇒ 00:30:00.810 Zoran Selinger: Because I was managing a lot of accounts, a lot of budget and all that stuff but when Covid came
194 00:30:01.120 ⇒ 00:30:04.830 Zoran Selinger: I just they everything fell down by 50%.
195 00:30:05.170 ⇒ 00:30:19.639 Zoran Selinger: And I said, You know what guys you can now cover my accounts? No problem, because everyone from the team just their workload got slashed by 50% overnight. So they you can cover me. I’m gonna go be an engineer now.
196 00:30:20.311 ⇒ 00:30:27.530 Zoran Selinger: So the and that other company that I that that marketing agency from us. They
197 00:30:28.570 ⇒ 00:30:39.669 Zoran Selinger: they were early stage, and I just needed every everyone they liked me. And they said, You can do whatever you want. And I next day I started. I started working on the back end and.
198 00:30:39.670 ⇒ 00:30:40.230 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Great. Great.
199 00:30:40.230 ⇒ 00:30:44.480 Zoran Selinger: I mean, 2 months after that I was the main
200 00:30:45.100 ⇒ 00:30:51.530 Zoran Selinger: why? Because the guy that was that was leading back and just left, and I just got
201 00:30:51.630 ⇒ 00:30:54.198 Zoran Selinger: left with everything, but I figured it out.
202 00:30:54.929 ⇒ 00:30:55.339 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
203 00:30:55.340 ⇒ 00:31:03.450 Zoran Selinger: Figure it out. So not. Right now they are doing a little bit of this restructuring.
204 00:31:03.860 ⇒ 00:31:08.979 Zoran Selinger: So the back end stuff might get reduced significantly. Okay.
205 00:31:09.820 ⇒ 00:31:18.179 Zoran Selinger: this is why why I’m doing what I was making a little bit more effort to maybe join a new project or something like that.
206 00:31:18.330 ⇒ 00:31:21.030 Zoran Selinger: And it’s it looks like that.
207 00:31:22.400 ⇒ 00:31:25.420 Zoran Selinger: I could maybe do really close to full time.
208 00:31:27.700 ⇒ 00:31:28.560 Zoran Selinger: For sure.
209 00:31:28.810 ⇒ 00:31:32.410 Uttam Kumaran: Like, even, let me tell you, even for our side. So a couple of things one is like.
210 00:31:32.780 ⇒ 00:31:40.090 Uttam Kumaran: I think, if you’re interested in learning stuff on the AI side and doing a lot more heavier data stuff like
211 00:31:40.710 ⇒ 00:31:42.960 Uttam Kumaran: there’s not a better company to be, I mean.
212 00:31:43.290 ⇒ 00:31:50.319 Uttam Kumaran: where that’s all we do, especially on the AI stuff like, I don’t think there’s another company doing the AI stuff that we’re doing. So you’ll
213 00:31:50.600 ⇒ 00:32:09.020 Uttam Kumaran: that’s like one thing I think second is for everybody. We start small. So you can work with us for part time for, however, and then you can get a sense of what it’s like to work with us, and then, if there’s opportunity to grow, then we grow together. That’s it. Like I. I’m not someone who like
214 00:32:09.260 ⇒ 00:32:14.600 Uttam Kumaran: sets who does things like we have to build a relationship. You have to trust us
215 00:32:15.299 ⇒ 00:32:20.840 Uttam Kumaran: and like all our for us, our company and our product is our people. So
216 00:32:21.350 ⇒ 00:32:50.470 Uttam Kumaran: why can’t? The the only way I found that it’s effective to recruit is to go do it slowly, like people start a lot of our folks started with 1020 h, part time. They realize that the work is good and the team, and then I made, and then I tried to give them as much money as we can, so they feel supported here. But we’re also growing company, right? So we I don’t play the rules like the other folks, because other other companies will be like, oh, we have strict process. You have to like
217 00:32:50.590 ⇒ 00:33:09.129 Uttam Kumaran: full time, we guarantee is like, I don’t like those rules. I didn’t like those rules when I was an engineer. So then I said, I don’t need to play. Why do I have to do that right? It’s my company. So I want to play fair. But I think I what I what I mentioned, too, is like our long term vision is to have this great crew of of, you know.
218 00:33:09.200 ⇒ 00:33:23.219 Uttam Kumaran: of athletes, and whether we’re doing AI today, something tomorrow. Our job is to solve customer problems right? And these are the. These are the different things we do right now, but similar to you, like you’ve been able to jump to the next thing.
219 00:33:23.550 ⇒ 00:33:28.589 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the journey in our in our company as well. AI for us right now is then, is the
220 00:33:28.710 ⇒ 00:33:37.769 Uttam Kumaran: we’re getting just so much demand that I think you’ll find that the even the work there. I’m sure you’ll get interested in learning how we architect some of these bigger projects and things like that.
221 00:33:38.150 ⇒ 00:33:40.430 Zoran Selinger: For sure. I mean, I’m Comp.
222 00:33:40.710 ⇒ 00:33:48.256 Zoran Selinger: It’s maybe ridiculous thing to say. Maybe maybe I I’m not usually an early adopter. Honestly.
223 00:33:48.700 ⇒ 00:33:49.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
224 00:33:49.070 ⇒ 00:33:53.740 Zoran Selinger: Usually sit back a little bit and just see if it’s just fashionable.
225 00:33:53.740 ⇒ 00:33:56.320 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, too. I’m like, too early. I was too early
226 00:33:57.630 ⇒ 00:34:00.939 Uttam Kumaran: recently got. Oh, good! It was not good 2 years ago.
227 00:34:01.412 ⇒ 00:34:04.249 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, now it’s now it’s
228 00:34:04.250 ⇒ 00:34:09.329 Uttam Kumaran: now everyone’s like, Oh, my God! You know you could do this. I’m like, I’ve been doing this for 2 years. Yes.
229 00:34:09.330 ⇒ 00:34:32.890 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, yeah, no. I’m completely sold sold on it now. And I’m learning. I’m learning prompt engineering. And I’m I’m I’m using cursor for my for my day to day. I’m I’m I’m using notebook. Lm, for research. And I do a lot of that right? So yeah, I’m getting the the hang of it, and it’s I mean it.
230 00:34:33.190 ⇒ 00:34:35.560 Zoran Selinger: I think, 4 x my speed.
231 00:34:35.560 ⇒ 00:34:42.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, for sure. But think about it for a company. Think about it, everybody in the companies. And we’re also building AI,
232 00:34:42.969 ⇒ 00:35:07.800 Uttam Kumaran: we build AI software for ourselves and a lot of the code we’ve. I’ve coded a lot of it. But we have tools and things right. Every client, for example, we build an agent for. So we can ask questions over all the transcripts, all of the notes, all the code for every single one of our clients. Those are the things that start to compound when an organization is doing that right beyond just people, individuals using it. It’s like
233 00:35:08.190 ⇒ 00:35:27.280 Uttam Kumaran: for me, I’m from. My vision is like, Okay, how? What if our internally we have a set of agents, tools, workflows that support us? How much better can our margins get? How much better can our speed get like? What is there even going to be? Comp, what’s the competition to like an AI powered company? Right? So that’s what I’m
234 00:35:27.450 ⇒ 00:35:30.300 Uttam Kumaran: thinking a lot about. And that’s what we’re pushing for, you know.
235 00:35:30.300 ⇒ 00:35:32.180 Zoran Selinger: Okay, cool, cool.
236 00:35:32.764 ⇒ 00:35:37.020 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. Sounds really good. I mean, I would. I would love
237 00:35:37.591 ⇒ 00:35:39.759 Zoran Selinger: kind of to see the sample.
238 00:35:40.000 ⇒ 00:35:40.320 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
239 00:35:40.320 ⇒ 00:35:42.509 Zoran Selinger: Sample, or do a sample of the work.
240 00:35:42.760 ⇒ 00:36:06.011 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe what I’ll do next is like I would love to connect you with one of our engineering managers. He’ll give you a little bit of sense of a couple of the projects that we’re working on. Happy to also connect you with one of our project managers. She’ll kind of give you like the business context of how we work. Maybe you could chat with both of them and and ask them questions. And kind of get a sense. Then, yeah, maybe we can pick off
241 00:36:06.460 ⇒ 00:36:09.689 Uttam Kumaran: some portion of something and and try something.
242 00:36:10.210 ⇒ 00:36:12.410 Zoran Selinger: Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good.
243 00:36:12.410 ⇒ 00:36:14.789 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, man, where are you in Croatia? By the way.
244 00:36:15.568 ⇒ 00:36:27.059 Zoran Selinger: Not anything that anywhere that anyone would know. I’m in Continental part. Yeah. Everyone knows the coast but I’m in
245 00:36:27.827 ⇒ 00:36:31.730 Zoran Selinger: next to OSIJ EK.
246 00:36:34.775 ⇒ 00:36:35.360 Uttam Kumaran: Nice!
247 00:36:35.360 ⇒ 00:36:39.449 Zoran Selinger: It’s a nice, nice city, I mean. I’m in in a town.
248 00:36:39.450 ⇒ 00:36:42.430 Uttam Kumaran: Wow! You’re very close, very close to the border. That’s awesome.
249 00:36:42.790 ⇒ 00:36:50.960 Zoran Selinger: Yes, I am. I mean, we’re bordering like there’s Hungary there, there’s there’s Bosnia right there. I mean, Italy is right there. That’s.
250 00:36:51.200 ⇒ 00:36:51.880 Uttam Kumaran: Wow!
251 00:36:51.880 ⇒ 00:36:56.490 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, pretty pretty. I mean, I consider it to set almost Central Europe.
252 00:36:56.490 ⇒ 00:36:58.480 Uttam Kumaran: And you were born in Croatia.
253 00:36:58.480 ⇒ 00:36:59.200 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
254 00:36:59.590 ⇒ 00:37:00.750 Uttam Kumaran: In osiac.
255 00:37:00.960 ⇒ 00:37:02.590 Zoran Selinger: Yes, thanks.
256 00:37:02.590 ⇒ 00:37:11.670 Zoran Selinger: Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, finished college. You know, what are we gonna do? Let’s get a a little bit of international experience.
257 00:37:12.340 ⇒ 00:37:13.450 Uttam Kumaran: You went to Dublin.
258 00:37:13.920 ⇒ 00:37:22.920 Zoran Selinger: I lived in Dublin the way I did it. I I just went to Google, and I wanted to work for the best agency
259 00:37:23.130 ⇒ 00:37:31.409 Zoran Selinger: that exists in Ireland, and there was no no like open positions, anything.
260 00:37:31.890 ⇒ 00:37:35.240 Uttam Kumaran: I just sent them an email.
261 00:37:35.440 ⇒ 00:37:40.100 Zoran Selinger: Sent them an email jumped on A on a quick Skype call.
262 00:37:40.230 ⇒ 00:37:45.520 Zoran Selinger: They said, we love you, but we cannot hire you if you don’t visit us first.st
263 00:37:45.730 ⇒ 00:37:52.541 Zoran Selinger: So they paid for my hotel for for the flight to get me there. I go there. Yeah,
264 00:37:52.920 ⇒ 00:37:54.349 Uttam Kumaran: Lovely! Oh, my God! I wish I.
265 00:37:54.350 ⇒ 00:38:02.830 Zoran Selinger: I was hanging out with them for a couple of hours in the office. And yeah, they said, Okay, january 2,015.
266 00:38:03.410 ⇒ 00:38:06.210 Zoran Selinger: You’re starting like 5th of January is your 1st day.
267 00:38:06.210 ⇒ 00:38:09.179 Uttam Kumaran: Wow! Let’s go. When was that? Oh, 2,000.
268 00:38:09.622 ⇒ 00:38:17.590 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, finished college, 2,014. And I decided, okay, I wanna go. I I wanna I wanna
269 00:38:17.750 ⇒ 00:38:25.759 Zoran Selinger: move away for for a while. And like, I said. Month after that I was sitting in in Dublin with a with a job.
270 00:38:25.760 ⇒ 00:38:29.570 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that’s huge dude. I cold emailed for my 1st job, too.
271 00:38:31.450 ⇒ 00:38:35.700 Uttam Kumaran: I went to school in Pennsylvania. I don’t know if you know the Us. Geo.
272 00:38:35.700 ⇒ 00:38:36.810 Zoran Selinger: A little bit. Yes, yes.
273 00:38:36.810 ⇒ 00:38:42.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, Pennsylvania. So it’s near New York, on the East coast, and I’ve always wanted I had a dream to go to New York city.
274 00:38:42.470 ⇒ 00:38:57.930 Uttam Kumaran: So I didn’t apply for any jobs that were not in New York City. I didn’t get anywhere. But I I also I read, I studied computer engineering. But I also studied finance, and I wanted to work in startups. And at the time this was 2018, the biggest startup was we work.
275 00:38:58.310 ⇒ 00:39:12.150 Uttam Kumaran: And so, I emailed anyone from my college that was there. And I got on the phone. I emailed someone he was like for for business intelligence. And so I emailed him. And then he said, said, Okay, yeah, let’s talk on the phone. I called him. And he’s like
276 00:39:12.400 ⇒ 00:39:27.339 Uttam Kumaran: he’s like, do you even know anything about what data is I’m like, no, he’s like, Go look up the Wikipedia for Business intelligence, and then email me, if you want to do that. And then I said, Yeah, look great, because it was like mix of technical and business for understanding business models.
277 00:39:27.430 ⇒ 00:39:43.939 Uttam Kumaran: And then I said, Yeah, I’m very interested. He said, Okay, I’ll pass you. I’ll give you a referral in. And then I spoke with the 1st person. Did the next interview learned sequel. In like 2 days I went to New York. My dad got me a hotel, studied sequel for 2 days, didn’t know anything
278 00:39:44.070 ⇒ 00:39:52.810 Uttam Kumaran: went, did the interview got got the job, and then was in New York later that year I lived in New York City for like 5 years, and then that that’s the only reason I have
279 00:39:53.350 ⇒ 00:39:57.771 Uttam Kumaran: my whole career now, as I did so much there and then.
280 00:39:58.560 ⇒ 00:40:14.569 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. And then I more recently, I moved here to Austin. I feel like it’s kind of similar. I wasn’t born. I was born in California, but I’m I’m like a big. I like work too much. So it’s nice to be in Austin, because it’s so relaxing here, like people here chill and like nobody here thinks about work so.
281 00:40:14.570 ⇒ 00:40:14.990 Zoran Selinger: Yeah.
282 00:40:14.990 ⇒ 00:40:17.580 Uttam Kumaran: So like. It’s a good place for me to be.
283 00:40:17.840 ⇒ 00:40:21.240 Zoran Selinger: And it’s it’s still a a tech center.
284 00:40:21.240 ⇒ 00:40:36.139 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, it’s no, it’s getting a lot bigger, like. I think it’s a good bet for me to be here, and now that I have this company. I go talk, at events, or I go to local meetups, and I actually have something to like, ask or like. I have an offer. I try to find people or
285 00:40:36.360 ⇒ 00:40:40.650 Uttam Kumaran: find other business owners. So before I was going as an engineer to meet ups and stuff.
286 00:40:40.840 ⇒ 00:40:43.280 Uttam Kumaran: but like I don’t, I just go listen to
287 00:40:43.460 ⇒ 00:40:46.870 Uttam Kumaran: data meetups or whatever. Now I go, and I can talk about us and.
288 00:40:47.100 ⇒ 00:40:52.300 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, of course, of course, that’s very real. Nice. Yeah. Great place to be. Yeah.
289 00:40:52.300 ⇒ 00:40:56.649 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay, perfect. So let me connect you with a few people. And then, yeah, we’ll be in touch.
290 00:40:57.470 ⇒ 00:40:58.250 Zoran Selinger: Excellent.
291 00:40:58.818 ⇒ 00:41:02.480 Uttam Kumaran: Appreciate it. Thank you. So I know it’s late. So I appreciate you taking the time.
292 00:41:02.852 ⇒ 00:41:07.690 Zoran Selinger: No, no worries. Just a a little bit of a bike ride before.
293 00:41:07.690 ⇒ 00:41:08.489 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice. Okay.
294 00:41:08.774 ⇒ 00:41:11.330 Zoran Selinger: Putting kids to bed, and it’ll be fine. Yeah.
295 00:41:11.823 ⇒ 00:41:12.810 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
296 00:41:12.810 ⇒ 00:41:13.920 Zoran Selinger: Still have time for that.
297 00:41:14.370 ⇒ 00:41:15.809 Zoran Selinger: Thank you so much. Thank you.
298 00:41:15.810 ⇒ 00:41:17.119 Zoran Selinger: Thank you. Take care.