Meeting Title: Brainforge Collaboration Discussion Date: 2025-07-29 Meeting participants: Aneesa, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:04:37.350 ⇒ 00:04:38.300 Aneesa: That one!
2 00:10:54.710 ⇒ 00:10:55.700 Aneesa: Hey?
3 00:10:56.000 ⇒ 00:10:56.980 Aneesa: Hi! There!
4 00:10:57.210 ⇒ 00:10:58.520 Uttam Kumaran: Hi! How are you?
5 00:10:59.150 ⇒ 00:11:00.879 Aneesa: I’m I’m doing well and yourself.
6 00:11:01.260 ⇒ 00:11:05.760 Uttam Kumaran: Good. Yeah, thank you. Sorry about the delay. I was just on with the client long. So.
7 00:11:06.350 ⇒ 00:11:08.300 Aneesa: Thank you, sir. No problem at all.
8 00:11:08.840 ⇒ 00:11:09.450 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
9 00:11:09.450 ⇒ 00:11:10.419 Uttam Kumaran: Ongoing mistake?
10 00:11:11.230 ⇒ 00:11:16.259 Aneesa: I’m going well. I’m not sure if you saw my Linkedin message.
11 00:11:16.770 ⇒ 00:11:18.200 Uttam Kumaran: I did not know.
12 00:11:18.200 ⇒ 00:11:18.810 Aneesa: Okay.
13 00:11:19.020 ⇒ 00:11:28.890 Aneesa: no problem. I’m a person who’s status. And so you’ll just see in here that I’m I’m struggling to speak, but it’s no problem.
14 00:11:28.890 ⇒ 00:11:29.530 Uttam Kumaran: No.
15 00:11:29.880 ⇒ 00:11:30.640 Aneesa: Yeah, so.
16 00:11:31.068 ⇒ 00:11:39.201 Uttam Kumaran: No problem. My girlfriend actually works. She’s a behavioral therapist. She was a lot of kiddos with like
17 00:11:39.810 ⇒ 00:11:43.089 Uttam Kumaran: like neurodivergence or speech. So like.
18 00:11:43.240 ⇒ 00:11:48.780 Uttam Kumaran: I, I’m learning a lot about that world. Actually, but yeah, no problem at all.
19 00:11:49.720 ⇒ 00:11:50.430 Aneesa: Yeah.
20 00:11:50.770 ⇒ 00:12:14.519 Aneesa: yeah. So I’ve read a bit about your business. But I would love to learn more and maybe get a sense of like, what are you looking for like are you looking for like an additional team member, you know. Like to work directly with with your clients, or are you looking to like just a pass on projects to
21 00:12:14.944 ⇒ 00:12:16.650 Aneesa: what do you have in mind.
22 00:12:16.910 ⇒ 00:12:43.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So yeah. One. I I saw your post in the in the measure channel, and I thought it was great. I think we’re doing a lot of similar things. You know our business, you know. I started the company about 2 years ago. We’re completely bootstrapped. We’re about 15 people now remote, completely remote. I’m here in Austin. We have some folks around the us, and of course, like around the world. So it’s been
23 00:12:43.900 ⇒ 00:12:48.829 Uttam Kumaran: pretty crazy to try to run this business. It’s been very difficult, but we are.
24 00:12:48.830 ⇒ 00:12:49.600 Aneesa: For sure.
25 00:12:49.600 ⇒ 00:13:06.880 Uttam Kumaran: We are growing. And so, yeah, I’m sure as you can. You know, you can relate, I think. You know, when I started we were primarily a data analytics firm when I started my background’s in data engineering. I worked some data teams led product at a data company before starting brain forge
26 00:13:07.530 ⇒ 00:13:12.969 Uttam Kumaran: And you know, the reason I got into AI was, I was actually using AI a lot to build my company
27 00:13:13.429 ⇒ 00:13:27.979 Uttam Kumaran: like for everything. I started it right around when Gpt. 3.5 came out. So in about September of last year, I actually brought on our 1st AI engineer, but not really for clients actually just to work with me to automate the company further.
28 00:13:28.550 ⇒ 00:13:29.290 Aneesa: Oh!
29 00:13:29.770 ⇒ 00:13:34.359 Uttam Kumaran: And then I always had a hunch that we would get into sort of like AI services.
30 00:13:34.530 ⇒ 00:13:35.185 Uttam Kumaran: But
31 00:13:36.090 ⇒ 00:13:41.519 Uttam Kumaran: And I knew that it wasn’t. We didn’t need to, because we had the data side of the business.
32 00:13:41.980 ⇒ 00:13:42.310 Aneesa: Okay.
33 00:13:42.310 ⇒ 00:14:00.855 Uttam Kumaran: But then there was just so much demand for a lot of the things that we had. We were even doing last year around this time, and I think everybody sort of realized how important is this, and especially our target audience, which is like CEO Cos operators. That like, we decided to go to market with AI related services.
34 00:14:01.160 ⇒ 00:14:01.480 Aneesa: Okay.
35 00:14:01.480 ⇒ 00:14:20.589 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So a lot of the work that we do in the data side, we we worked a lot of times across. Ecom, B, 2 B saas but also in you know, health and legal and services. And similarly, on the AI side, we sort of like an interesting mix of clients. A lot of our yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
36 00:14:20.740 ⇒ 00:14:25.279 Aneesa: No, no, I’m just wondering. So like for the data side of the
37 00:14:25.990 ⇒ 00:14:34.920 Aneesa: projects like, is it you like who actually does the hands on client stuff, or do you outsource that.
38 00:14:35.700 ⇒ 00:14:49.159 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so everybody is on our team. So we have. Yeah, we have, like, you know, as mentioned, we have about 15 people. I think we probably have. Most of the folks are engineers. So it’s a mix of like, we have 3 or 4 AI engineers. We have
39 00:14:49.410 ⇒ 00:14:57.770 Uttam Kumaran: 5 or 6 data folks like data engineers, analytics, engineers. So my time these days is like
40 00:14:58.020 ⇒ 00:15:08.200 Uttam Kumaran: 20% or so client work. I flow everywhere, though. So I’m sort of everywhere and try to be nowhere like meaning. I can’t really be on the hook for anything.
41 00:15:09.020 ⇒ 00:15:37.479 Uttam Kumaran: I my time is like non existent, so I will likely mess it up, but I tend to be involved in every client in one way or another. Some clients are more heavily on the project management or the client management side. Some clients I’m sort of floating in the background and watching and running retros and things like that. We run almost our clients on typical project management sprints. And so we have project managers, and we sort of run agile for a lot of our clients.
42 00:15:38.180 ⇒ 00:15:50.280 Aneesa: Wow, it’s amazing. So, but your role is like mostly a project management and like business development, client engagement, like in that side of right.
43 00:15:50.280 ⇒ 00:15:56.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I’m so I’m basically running the whole company. So a lot of it is.
44 00:15:56.530 ⇒ 00:15:57.390 Aneesa: CEO.
45 00:15:57.610 ⇒ 00:16:01.871 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So a lot of it is, it’s basically everything.
46 00:16:02.730 ⇒ 00:16:07.369 Uttam Kumaran: I do a lot of technical, like, sort of coaching work these days.
47 00:16:07.490 ⇒ 00:16:16.740 Uttam Kumaran: I’m still doing on the AI side. I’m setting a lot of our AI roadmap and R&D I also manage our internal AI team. So part of our
48 00:16:16.970 ⇒ 00:16:20.500 Uttam Kumaran: our AI engineers. Time is going to looking at internal tasks like
49 00:16:20.890 ⇒ 00:16:35.579 Uttam Kumaran: we have our own brain for platform that we work on that enables our teams with agents and tools. So I project, manage that just because I’m probably the I’m currently the most senior AI person, and and probably the person that can really unblock anybody from the company, and so.
50 00:16:35.580 ⇒ 00:16:35.950 Aneesa: Okay.
51 00:16:36.570 ⇒ 00:16:37.479 Uttam Kumaran: Or for, like
52 00:16:37.820 ⇒ 00:16:57.059 Uttam Kumaran: a problem like bringing AI into a consultancy like ours, it’s not. It’s not so easy, for, like a random project manager or like a random team member to do, because you kind of need to have a good understanding of it, of what’s possible in AI, and you need to have a good understanding of the business, and I’m probably the only person that has, like both.
53 00:16:58.630 ⇒ 00:17:02.470 Uttam Kumaran: Very. The problem again, with anything that goes through me is that
54 00:17:02.600 ⇒ 00:17:13.089 Uttam Kumaran: I’m very time constrained. Right? Because I I still, we’re still all like founder led sales. So me and my business partner. We sell everything.
55 00:17:13.869 ⇒ 00:17:17.049 Aneesa: My time is usually like 50, 50, 60% sales.
56 00:17:17.469 ⇒ 00:17:22.779 Uttam Kumaran: And then the rest is sort of like finance. Legal. Hr, and then there’s a
57 00:17:22.909 ⇒ 00:17:27.249 Uttam Kumaran: and whatever’s left is is fine with, you know. So.
58 00:17:27.250 ⇒ 00:17:27.829 Aneesa: Site.
59 00:17:27.930 ⇒ 00:17:37.160 Aneesa: Half the time is spent like running the business like in the business, and the other half is spent like trying to work on the business.
60 00:17:37.500 ⇒ 00:17:41.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And it needs to be flip. It needs to be like 80, 20 work on the business work in the business.
61 00:17:42.150 ⇒ 00:17:43.160 Aneesa: Yeah.
62 00:17:43.160 ⇒ 00:17:46.620 Uttam Kumaran: Because there’s no other person in the company to like. Set the heartbeat
63 00:17:47.170 ⇒ 00:17:56.499 Uttam Kumaran: and we need to grow right. And so I’m like the person like. If you think about our business. I described it like we’re going. We’re all going down a cave.
64 00:17:56.640 ⇒ 00:17:59.579 Uttam Kumaran: I’m the person in front with a flashlight right?
65 00:17:59.989 ⇒ 00:18:06.800 Uttam Kumaran: But then everybody behind me are like collecting gems and stuff like that, right? So for me, I don’t know what’s next.
66 00:18:07.250 ⇒ 00:18:07.580 Aneesa: Yeah.
67 00:18:07.580 ⇒ 00:18:11.950 Uttam Kumaran: The least afraid, and I’m the most capable of finding the path.
68 00:18:12.400 ⇒ 00:18:12.880 Aneesa: Yeah.
69 00:18:12.880 ⇒ 00:18:20.640 Uttam Kumaran: And so the company needs me to be in the front. But that means that anything that we figured out has to get handed off.
70 00:18:21.360 ⇒ 00:18:21.930 Aneesa: Yeah.
71 00:18:21.930 ⇒ 00:18:39.720 Uttam Kumaran: We’re we’re starting to grow in ways where we’re kind of building this like the next set of people in the company where we hired a lot of people that are just doing either the core engineering jobs, the core project management, the core marketing and operations. And then, now, I’m sort of looking, you know, people kind of like, with a similar profile to yours, who have like
72 00:18:39.810 ⇒ 00:18:55.380 Uttam Kumaran: sort of understand, the risk of going out on your own, but also understand, like really understand, like client success like client enablement, and then also have, like a hunger for the AI piece, and that the AI piece is really where we have an edge, because no one’s been.
73 00:18:55.870 ⇒ 00:18:58.289 Uttam Kumaran: No one’s been doing this for a long time.
74 00:18:58.890 ⇒ 00:19:09.810 Uttam Kumaran: and I feel like, if you put us, you know, head to head with, like even one of the big consultancies like we have a good chance of winning, because nobody’s also implemented this in their own company as much as we have.
75 00:19:09.950 ⇒ 00:19:20.079 Uttam Kumaran: So when I go talk to Ceos, it’s like a peer conversation, because I’m like, here’s what we’ve been doing, not like, Oh, we don’t use AI in our company, but like we do it for you. It’s like.
76 00:19:20.080 ⇒ 00:19:20.400 Aneesa: It.
77 00:19:20.400 ⇒ 00:19:25.030 Uttam Kumaran: Whatever they ask me, I’ve tried, and that we failed and we tried. And I figured it out.
78 00:19:25.780 ⇒ 00:19:33.509 Uttam Kumaran: So typically our stuff our clients ask for is actually a lot easier than stuff that we’re doing. We’re trying to do internally. Yeah.
79 00:19:34.380 ⇒ 00:19:43.699 Uttam Kumaran: but also again, like for me, you know, our our product is our people like, I don’t. I don’t have a product like we’re not a product company like the.
80 00:19:43.700 ⇒ 00:19:44.180 Aneesa: Service.
81 00:19:44.180 ⇒ 00:19:54.729 Uttam Kumaran: The more empathetic our people are, the smarter the more energized and become, the more curious they are, the better service a our clients will receive right, and so.
82 00:19:54.730 ⇒ 00:19:55.160 Aneesa: Alright!
83 00:19:55.160 ⇒ 00:20:14.609 Uttam Kumaran: It’s that’s kind of like where I’m at right now is like thinking about both like how to partner with external agencies, but also like how to find folks like you that you know. And again, I haven’t asked you a single question about about your story, but also very curious to hear about like your journey, and like what your goals are and like how we can collaborate.
84 00:20:14.980 ⇒ 00:20:16.920 Uttam Kumaran: But I’m sure there’s a number of ways.
85 00:20:18.020 ⇒ 00:20:26.499 Aneesa: Yeah. So I think now is a great overview of like, okay, what? Exactly you’re doing? I really
86 00:20:27.224 ⇒ 00:20:44.510 Aneesa: resonate with the fact that you’re not a product company, because I’m like, I I also am not. And I for the longest time I felt like, Okay, am I going down the wrong path because of that. Like we’re in like a product led
87 00:20:44.790 ⇒ 00:20:46.729 Aneesa: like both in job market.
88 00:20:46.730 ⇒ 00:20:47.910 Uttam Kumaran: See his thing right now.
89 00:20:47.910 ⇒ 00:20:52.150 Aneesa: Yeah. And it’s like, okay, how do I compete? If if I might try to sell
90 00:20:52.310 ⇒ 00:21:22.220 Aneesa: myself and my team, you know of, like, okay, this is what I can do for you. But then I tried to change how I’m mentally approaching it. And being like, okay, it’s not about like the work that I can do for you or me or my team. It’s about the business problem that I can help you solve, whether it’s through a product like an off the shelf product, a custom built product, or just through like advice or guidance, like
91 00:21:22.230 ⇒ 00:21:30.150 Aneesa: my goal, is to make my clients money one way or the other, whether it’s through like.
92 00:21:30.150 ⇒ 00:21:30.610 Uttam Kumaran: Similar.
93 00:21:30.610 ⇒ 00:21:34.559 Aneesa: Sales. Yeah. So I think we’re aligned.
94 00:21:34.560 ⇒ 00:21:35.469 Uttam Kumaran: You know. Yeah.
95 00:21:36.020 ⇒ 00:21:46.967 Uttam Kumaran: whether whether it is like, Hey, I got to implement like a Cdp or whether I have to like buy like implement a chat off from scratch where we we build it.
96 00:21:47.620 ⇒ 00:21:56.679 Uttam Kumaran: Our like. The clients we talk to again, and we sell to the to the sea level or to the operators, so they don’t really care how it’s done. And they’re looking.
97 00:21:56.680 ⇒ 00:21:57.290 Aneesa: Yeah.
98 00:21:57.290 ⇒ 00:22:04.120 Uttam Kumaran: To us for the guidance, and nobody cares like they don’t want the outcome right.
99 00:22:04.510 ⇒ 00:22:10.820 Aneesa: Yeah, so are most of your clients on, like, I think you said B. 2 B Saas.
100 00:22:11.880 ⇒ 00:22:22.710 Uttam Kumaran: We have a mix. So we have b 2 b, we have a lot of Ecom but we also have, like we have traditional private service businesses to like are you familiar with like ABC home?
101 00:22:22.930 ⇒ 00:22:26.850 Uttam Kumaran: They’re like a really large pest control company.
102 00:22:26.850 ⇒ 00:22:27.900 Aneesa: Press control.
103 00:22:28.210 ⇒ 00:22:43.929 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So you might see them, you know, if you Google them, they have these bands that are going around all through Texas. But we deployed AI agents within the Customer Service department, and they’re based here in Austin. But Service Dallas Houston, and you know, Austin. We also have, like small
104 00:22:44.070 ⇒ 00:22:46.630 Uttam Kumaran: retailers. We have a flower company.
105 00:22:47.108 ⇒ 00:23:09.781 Uttam Kumaran: But all I would say, companies that are like 20 to 100 million in revenue or higher, and companies that like, they’re not struggling with product market fit, like we don’t work much with startups, basically the only my whole back, my whole background, is in startups. And we had to work with startups starting off. But they’re kind of really crappy customers, some sometimes
106 00:23:10.600 ⇒ 00:23:15.619 Uttam Kumaran: Well, sometimes like, because that’s just who they are. Sometimes it’s their fault.
107 00:23:16.340 ⇒ 00:23:17.000 Aneesa: Yeah.
108 00:23:17.000 ⇒ 00:23:20.489 Uttam Kumaran: But also like, Look, I can’t control whether your product works
109 00:23:20.700 ⇒ 00:23:37.310 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t work on products for clients. A lot of our stuff is reporting on their products or implementing internal efficiency, you know, related AI. And so if your product is failing, the data is gonna show that. And then you’re gonna fire us. So
110 00:23:37.310 ⇒ 00:23:37.740 Uttam Kumaran: that’s
111 00:23:37.740 ⇒ 00:23:46.369 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like, not the kind of clients that we want to work with longer term, I think, where we found a really good niche, because it’s very underserved, is like mid market
112 00:23:46.790 ⇒ 00:23:51.819 Uttam Kumaran: kind of these, like mid market private businesses. Yeah.
113 00:23:51.820 ⇒ 00:23:57.739 Aneesa: Okay. But then, like, how are you approaching them? Because, like, you really have to have like
114 00:23:57.890 ⇒ 00:24:05.959 Aneesa: a network, or like some kind of like personal in right, like a cold DM is hit or miss, you know.
115 00:24:06.660 ⇒ 00:24:08.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been selling now
116 00:24:09.230 ⇒ 00:24:17.619 Uttam Kumaran: for 2 years. So meet a lot of meet a lot of people. And yeah, I mean, we’ve worked with over 40 clients. So we have case studies.
117 00:24:18.108 ⇒ 00:24:46.419 Uttam Kumaran: We have a ton of case studies. We have like A, we have a pretty robust marketing sort of sequence. We do events. So now we have several sort of sales channels of which we’re acquiring customers. Additionally, we’ve talked to so many people that typically people leave a job, and then they call us their next company. They finally get a budget when we talk to them 9 months ago. And then they’re like, we’re ready for you guys. But one, it’s like we take every sales opportunity really seriously. And we try our best.
118 00:24:46.500 ⇒ 00:24:59.049 Uttam Kumaran: And we produce like really great sales assets. Try to leave an impression on those clients. But I would say, like a lot of it’s been time in the market like, we’ve learned a lot about what works like, we tried cold emailing, or we tried full.
119 00:24:59.050 ⇒ 00:24:59.720 Aneesa: It didn’t work.
120 00:24:59.720 ⇒ 00:25:03.482 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, just there’s so many people doing it.
121 00:25:03.900 ⇒ 00:25:04.400 Aneesa: Yeah.
122 00:25:04.400 ⇒ 00:25:05.560 Uttam Kumaran: But a lot of like
123 00:25:05.780 ⇒ 00:25:12.300 Uttam Kumaran: me meeting people here in Austin or my business partners in New York. We have some people, my way, so we have a lot.
124 00:25:12.300 ⇒ 00:25:13.070 Aneesa: Person.
125 00:25:13.280 ⇒ 00:25:15.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and we have a wide network of
126 00:25:15.440 ⇒ 00:25:27.220 Uttam Kumaran: both friends and friends of brain forge, so that I try to take advantage of but it it didn’t get better until like a few months ago, like it was, for it’s been horrible for most of the company’s time, like it’s
127 00:25:27.500 ⇒ 00:25:32.599 Uttam Kumaran: it’s been like like crawling through glass to get clients like. Only recently did it get a lot.
128 00:25:33.950 ⇒ 00:25:36.230 Aneesa: Really, okay.
129 00:25:36.230 ⇒ 00:25:38.110 Uttam Kumaran: This is the most hardest part about the whole thing.
130 00:25:38.220 ⇒ 00:25:41.629 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t think the AI piece or the data piece has been hard at all.
131 00:25:42.263 ⇒ 00:25:46.396 Uttam Kumaran: Like, certainly not. The hardest technical thing that I’ve done.
132 00:25:46.930 ⇒ 00:25:48.710 Uttam Kumaran: It’s 1st has been sales.
133 00:25:48.960 ⇒ 00:25:51.370 Uttam Kumaran: Second has been people probably.
134 00:25:51.590 ⇒ 00:25:53.560 Aneesa: Yeah, okay.
135 00:25:53.970 ⇒ 00:26:02.309 Aneesa: well, I appreciate you being raw there, you know, it’s it’s not easy to admit that. Okay, yeah, like, hey.
136 00:26:02.310 ⇒ 00:26:02.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I know.
137 00:26:02.850 ⇒ 00:26:03.940 Aneesa: We’re struggling.
138 00:26:04.130 ⇒ 00:26:06.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I have. No, I have no problem. Admitting that. I mean.
139 00:26:06.810 ⇒ 00:26:16.850 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, it’s like, what is there to have an ego about like we tried. We tried all the time, and we tried every single different way to sell, and begged and like
140 00:26:16.990 ⇒ 00:26:23.840 Uttam Kumaran: talk to every single person I’ve ever met. And then something starts clicking like again. We’ve done. We do a lot on Linkedin.
141 00:26:24.060 ⇒ 00:26:26.099 Uttam Kumaran: and I’ve met a lot of people
142 00:26:26.350 ⇒ 00:26:28.269 Uttam Kumaran: in the last 2 years, so
143 00:26:28.510 ⇒ 00:26:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: as long as you meet everybody, and you try to leave folks with a good impression about yourself or your company or your team.
144 00:26:34.160 ⇒ 00:26:39.859 Uttam Kumaran: You know. I think the one thing that a lot of these companies just lack is trusted partners, especially in consulting.
145 00:26:40.460 ⇒ 00:26:40.949 Aneesa: Yeah, so.
146 00:26:40.950 ⇒ 00:26:43.936 Uttam Kumaran: So I try to be sort of like
147 00:26:44.650 ⇒ 00:26:51.019 Uttam Kumaran: the anti consulting like, I tend to be pretty forthcoming with, like how we’re gonna do things, how much it costs.
148 00:26:51.220 ⇒ 00:26:52.959 Uttam Kumaran: what we would do like.
149 00:26:53.290 ⇒ 00:26:57.890 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t tend to gatekeep much, because that’s not actually what they’re
150 00:26:58.170 ⇒ 00:27:05.629 Uttam Kumaran: going for, like if you call me, and we do some meetings, and you like, go build yourself. You should have probably built it yourself, anyways, like you probably didn’t need us.
151 00:27:06.280 ⇒ 00:27:10.370 Uttam Kumaran: I never! I never was like fearful over that, but it took a long time to build a.
152 00:27:14.050 ⇒ 00:27:32.549 Aneesa: For our business, like we mostly been like targeting small businesses. So so like Mom and Pop, like restaurants, hotels spas, plumbers like that kind of crowds, and like nowhere near, like
153 00:27:32.720 ⇒ 00:27:47.860 Aneesa: a mid market or millions. It’s like struggling businesses, and it’s really hard to get them like, even if they see the value in in what we’re offering, like. The money is just not there, you know, and that’s not their fault.
154 00:27:47.860 ⇒ 00:27:52.980 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me about like tell me about even before that like how you got into this like, what made you start this and like?
155 00:27:53.140 ⇒ 00:27:59.559 Uttam Kumaran: And then also, you know, you describe a team, and we like what? Who is the team right now? And like, would you? Who are you collaborating with.
156 00:27:59.560 ⇒ 00:28:00.310 Aneesa: Yeah.
157 00:28:00.480 ⇒ 00:28:28.669 Aneesa: So I would say that, our company sells different than yours, and that, like, we’re operating more as like an agency. So like my role is like, bring in the sales, and I help with marketing. And the back end team is a a typical offshore team that has strong AI abilities. So they’ve done this a lot for American clients.
158 00:28:28.670 ⇒ 00:28:43.059 Aneesa: And they and we have, like a a project manager over there like who can, who oversees all the work. Basically, yeah. So and how I got into it. So actually, last year, I had already started
159 00:28:43.678 ⇒ 00:28:53.520 Aneesa: playing with the idea of like an digital marketing agency. And I, I started out by targeting
160 00:28:54.180 ⇒ 00:28:56.020 Aneesa: financial advisors
161 00:28:56.460 ⇒ 00:29:05.439 Aneesa: to offer, like the bread and and butter marketing stuff. So like, okay, website, help like a website, Revamp
162 00:29:05.960 ⇒ 00:29:13.080 Aneesa: SEO, help a content management, a paid ads. And I ran into a.
163 00:29:13.080 ⇒ 00:29:13.950 Uttam Kumaran: Before.
164 00:29:14.980 ⇒ 00:29:16.710 Aneesa: It like I. I had
165 00:29:16.760 ⇒ 00:29:30.759 Aneesa: tried to start it. And I I did start it. But I after a couple of months in, I was like, Okay, I’m facing a lot of headwinds here. It’s like, Come on the headwinds. More like, okay, this is a
166 00:29:30.760 ⇒ 00:29:47.569 Aneesa: money minded audience, right? So they are hesitant to invest, and then 2 is a lot of them are are like small time advisors, and they’re not making like millions when they can afford to invest.
167 00:29:47.610 ⇒ 00:29:49.709 Aneesa: and then the other issue was
168 00:29:50.380 ⇒ 00:30:04.320 Aneesa: a compliance so like making sure that all the marketing is like compliant with like sec. Rules. Even if the advisor like, didn’t want like, did want to help with
169 00:30:04.320 ⇒ 00:30:22.320 Aneesa: their marketing. They had to go to like layers and layers of approvals. So I you know, I was like, Okay, maybe this isn’t a good idea anymore. But then, like someone in my network, they were like basically doing the same thing. But like a wider niche.
170 00:30:22.370 ⇒ 00:30:30.449 Aneesa: So like like different types of businesses and offering a AI help.
171 00:30:30.920 ⇒ 00:30:59.770 Aneesa: So I thought, like, Okay, why not, partner with them to where, like, okay, I can differentiate myself better. I’m not just doing like the usual marketing help. I’m offering AI help right? And that’s a big money maker, and time saver as well, so like when. So I’ll give you an example. So like some of the AI products that we have like ready to go off the shelf
172 00:31:00.290 ⇒ 00:31:09.960 Aneesa: plug and play our voice spots so like, probably similar to what you’re doing for for pest for you.
173 00:31:10.080 ⇒ 00:31:37.060 Aneesa: your pest client. So like helping them like with inbound calls, so like if client calls, and the test person is like on the field boots on the ground. They don’t have time like answer that call right. But that’s a missed lead. It’s a missed sale. It’s like implementing a voice spot to take that call. Take that customer information, and maybe like text, the employee of like, okay.
174 00:31:37.060 ⇒ 00:31:44.870 Aneesa: so you have this request in the pipeline. So stuff like that.
175 00:31:44.890 ⇒ 00:32:08.200 Aneesa: or like AI AI powered workflows. So we had like a a construction client, and we, like they had an employee, would like go out in person on foot to like, gather all the information to create a custom quote for their work. So what we did is like automate, the entire quote creation.
176 00:32:09.560 ⇒ 00:32:10.820 Aneesa: a process.
177 00:32:10.940 ⇒ 00:32:18.010 Aneesa: So those are some of the kinds of business problems that we’re trying to solve for clients through using
178 00:32:18.270 ⇒ 00:32:20.870 Aneesa: AI, yeah.
179 00:32:21.200 ⇒ 00:32:26.389 Uttam Kumaran: So what’s your, what’s your like goal? Now? Like, what do you think? Where do you think this is? Gonna go?
180 00:32:26.890 ⇒ 00:32:27.300 Uttam Kumaran: Okay?
181 00:32:27.300 ⇒ 00:32:32.289 Uttam Kumaran: You like, yeah, I’m just curious now that you’ve started to see the digital marketing thing. This like, what do you think.
182 00:32:33.910 ⇒ 00:32:52.819 Aneesa: I would say, it’s definitely AI, but it depends on who like, okay for a small mom and pop shop. Their concern is not okay, how do I get on the AI Band wagon? It’s about, okay, how do I cut costs? How do I make more sales? Right?
183 00:32:52.820 ⇒ 00:33:09.759 Aneesa: So it’s like, okay. Maybe they need like some basic marketing help. Like I, I know, it’s not like the most exciting thing, but it’s it’s truly like one of the best and easiest, like low hanging fruits to help a small mom and pop shop
184 00:33:09.940 ⇒ 00:33:14.470 Aneesa: and like helps help someone in in your in in your community.
185 00:33:14.580 ⇒ 00:33:30.569 Aneesa: So that’s what I’ve been seeing. If they’re like middle income and like can afford at least a a couple of 100 bucks a month. Then I think that AI is like a good investment for them. Absolutely, absolutely. But I think
186 00:33:31.290 ⇒ 00:33:31.630 Aneesa: yes.
187 00:33:31.630 ⇒ 00:33:37.040 Uttam Kumaran: What do you think it is for you, though like what do you? What do? What are you curious about like? Where do you think your business.
188 00:33:38.560 ⇒ 00:33:44.349 Aneesa: Okay? So I’m kind of at a crossroads myself. So I’m
189 00:33:44.560 ⇒ 00:34:09.469 Aneesa: I’m 1 partnering with the AI agency piece, like, if I have any clients that come to me and are like, Okay, hey, I need some like automation help, or I think I could use this AI voice spot. Then I offer that through my partner. But me, as like just myself, I’m like using the
190 00:34:09.670 ⇒ 00:34:24.390 Aneesa: like offering the usual marketing, but then also offering myself as like a fractional Cmo, so I have one potential client for that. At the moment it’s like A,
191 00:34:24.429 ⇒ 00:34:43.200 Aneesa: it’s somewhat of a hybrid between like offering it help and b 2 b. Sas, so I’m I’m still like, like, relatively early in in my journey. But that’s kind of where I’m heading like I really wanna leverage my time and like, make sure that
192 00:34:43.590 ⇒ 00:34:56.969 Aneesa: I’m I’m making good use of my time, like not all all of the marketing clients can like pay too. Well. So it’s like, okay, how do I make up for that? Well, it’s through like, okay.
193 00:34:57.290 ⇒ 00:34:58.710 Aneesa: offering my time.
194 00:34:59.150 ⇒ 00:34:59.769 Aneesa: It’s not huge.
195 00:34:59.770 ⇒ 00:35:02.140 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’ll end up growing your own team.
196 00:35:02.960 ⇒ 00:35:13.920 Aneesa: Yeah, yeah, I am okay. So I, I have a business partner who is working on the marketing side. So he will bring in the marketing clients like, whether it’s
197 00:35:14.060 ⇒ 00:35:23.639 Aneesa: miss his small mom and Pop, or companies, or whatever. We just began this partnership like 2 days ago.
198 00:35:24.204 ⇒ 00:35:28.750 Aneesa: So it’s still in the works. And then me, I wanna continue to like
199 00:35:29.070 ⇒ 00:35:32.359 Aneesa: offer my time as a Cmo.
200 00:35:33.380 ⇒ 00:35:34.470 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah.
201 00:35:34.470 ⇒ 00:35:37.899 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, like, even, you know, for us, I think it’s probably a couple of ways. One.
202 00:35:38.220 ⇒ 00:35:38.800 Aneesa: Like.
203 00:35:38.800 ⇒ 00:35:43.229 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’re seeing we’re still seeing a lot of need on the marketing side. But truly, like.
204 00:35:43.370 ⇒ 00:35:49.430 Uttam Kumaran: I think the skill set you have in AI is gonna be the most in the main thing where that’s where we’re seeing
205 00:35:49.590 ⇒ 00:35:56.300 Uttam Kumaran: everyone wants to use it. But commonly a lot of the AI problems they want. There’s also a data controller. So we end up
206 00:35:56.540 ⇒ 00:35:58.800 Uttam Kumaran: able to do both sides of the work.
207 00:35:59.140 ⇒ 00:36:08.819 Uttam Kumaran: But I think one is like, you know I’d be curious to see like if you wanna if you want to collaborate, you know. I don’t know how. I don’t know how interested we’d be in
208 00:36:09.160 ⇒ 00:36:15.289 Uttam Kumaran: leveraging the offshore team for the AI work, because we have.
209 00:36:15.670 ⇒ 00:36:17.299 Aneesa: We already have that? Yeah, yeah.
210 00:36:17.300 ⇒ 00:36:23.300 Uttam Kumaran: But I but I think what’s what you know. What was really interesting to me is like, I’m I’m finding it hard to get
211 00:36:23.500 ⇒ 00:36:32.509 Uttam Kumaran: to just find people that are in the field doing this work that can speak to business owners. Right? That I can articulate what is the
212 00:36:32.720 ⇒ 00:36:35.559 Uttam Kumaran: like? What are the efficiency gains. They can expect.
213 00:36:35.690 ⇒ 00:36:57.360 Uttam Kumaran: What? How would a voice agent impact? How would implementing play potentially impact like their go to market? Right? Like we do a lot of play implementations. We’ve done stuff for voice. We use everything we’ve done everything in in a lot of. So we’re also doing pretty heavy rag related workflows, chat bots, black box but for me, like it’s actually
214 00:36:57.826 ⇒ 00:37:01.820 Uttam Kumaran: the hardest thing we have is that I’m the only person now that is like
215 00:37:02.555 ⇒ 00:37:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: both like it’s kind of like an AI strategist.
216 00:37:06.360 ⇒ 00:37:06.730 Aneesa: Right.
217 00:37:07.000 ⇒ 00:37:10.540 Uttam Kumaran: Whatever. I don’t know if there’s gonna be a new role called like Head of AI or head of office.
218 00:37:10.540 ⇒ 00:37:10.880 Aneesa: You’re right.
219 00:37:10.880 ⇒ 00:37:13.419 Uttam Kumaran: But like we go in. And that’s who we are for clients
220 00:37:13.750 ⇒ 00:37:29.320 Uttam Kumaran: where some clients that come in they’re like we need this workflow automated like, for example, working with the design agency. They work, they work with series B Startup series, A, B start looking to raise money and they build all their decks for them beautiful decks that then they use to go raise tons of money.
221 00:37:29.560 ⇒ 00:37:35.519 Uttam Kumaran: and so they have a workflow, that where they send out a questionnaire, and they get a transcript, and then they want to turn that into a notion
222 00:37:35.630 ⇒ 00:37:37.490 Uttam Kumaran: like whole line on the deck.
223 00:37:37.760 ⇒ 00:37:39.749 Uttam Kumaran: They’re like, Hey, this takes us like
224 00:37:39.860 ⇒ 00:37:57.140 Uttam Kumaran: an hour, 2 h per deck. Can you automate that so that we can go get more of these and do more of these in parallel? Okay, perfect, right? But then for me. But then that’s actually not like any AI agency is going to do like we can do it. But I have to go. I have to explain why, how we do it. Right? Because everyone is
225 00:37:57.620 ⇒ 00:38:03.889 Uttam Kumaran: everyone you put that opportunity and be like, oh, totally. I can do whatever. But that’s not actually what gets you. The deal it gets you
226 00:38:04.510 ⇒ 00:38:25.140 Uttam Kumaran: is having them understand? Right? So when I go and I’m like, Okay, cool, like, walk me through. Okay, you’re using quad for some workflow. You’re using notion you’re using slack. Okay? Well, I know notion has an SDK, and they just released an Mcp server. We can. We can use anthropic and like, maybe have the front end be slack when you talk to slack. So I can explain these things
227 00:38:25.280 ⇒ 00:38:33.560 Uttam Kumaran: get the client sort of like convinced to see like what that could be, and work with my team to actually put together a project plan so that they can say cool. I’m ready to do it
228 00:38:33.690 ⇒ 00:38:50.529 Uttam Kumaran: right. That’s actually what convinces them to work with us is the level of detail we go into before even starting, because I don’t want to take a project where the requirements are not really clear. I also know that, hey? It’s their hard earned money. They’re not going to just spend it just because I say I can do it. And there’s.
229 00:38:50.530 ⇒ 00:38:50.890 Aneesa: A lot of.
230 00:38:50.890 ⇒ 00:38:55.699 Uttam Kumaran: Consultancies that will say whatever you need, we can do it. That’s not. We don’t do everything right. There’s still
231 00:38:56.170 ⇒ 00:39:03.500 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t build. I don’t build mobile apps. I don’t build websites. I even don’t really like building chat bots at this point.
232 00:39:04.080 ⇒ 00:39:08.760 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna use copilot kit, or like, figure out a way to use some framework for that.
233 00:39:08.870 ⇒ 00:39:27.099 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s like our difference, right? Like I tend to. We tend to be really forthcoming with how we’re gonna do it. And then I say, you can take that plan, go shop it around what they’re gonna find is there’s not gonna be a partner like us who can explain what we’re doing is not gonna gatekeep and be like, oh, it’s a black box system. You could keep us. Keep us here.
234 00:39:27.430 ⇒ 00:39:27.890 Aneesa: I know.
235 00:39:27.890 ⇒ 00:39:31.259 Uttam Kumaran: Any of those games, and that’s what I think has kept us
236 00:39:31.450 ⇒ 00:39:34.300 Uttam Kumaran: in business. And so really what I whereas, like
237 00:39:34.520 ⇒ 00:39:36.789 Uttam Kumaran: someone that wants to come help
238 00:39:36.920 ⇒ 00:39:44.069 Uttam Kumaran: with that. You know whether that’s more sales focus, whether that’s more on the like actual leading the project.
239 00:39:44.240 ⇒ 00:39:47.329 Uttam Kumaran: We have kind of openings for both of those, but like.
240 00:39:47.330 ⇒ 00:39:47.960 Aneesa: Okay.
241 00:39:47.960 ⇒ 00:39:50.140 Uttam Kumaran: That’s sort of like what I’m going on.
242 00:39:50.140 ⇒ 00:39:50.560 Aneesa: Excuse me.
243 00:39:50.560 ⇒ 00:39:53.529 Uttam Kumaran: Trying to look look for for folks that want to do that.
244 00:39:53.860 ⇒ 00:40:01.989 Aneesa: Yeah, I’d be open. Are you looking for like someone like on a contract basis, a part time basis, a commission basis.
245 00:40:02.640 ⇒ 00:40:05.750 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of depends. I think I would. Probably
246 00:40:05.980 ⇒ 00:40:08.860 Uttam Kumaran: I’d probably let you sit on it a little bit and think I mean
247 00:40:09.000 ⇒ 00:40:15.979 Uttam Kumaran: we, for this is this is more of a role where I want people like, I want whoever comes in this, it depends on like how
248 00:40:16.310 ⇒ 00:40:25.529 Uttam Kumaran: I let me put it this way, like it depends on like, how much you want to do this and and what like your long term vision. For example, if you’re like, Hey, I
249 00:40:25.650 ⇒ 00:40:32.329 Uttam Kumaran: I’m I’m down. I have like 10 h, and I’m down to do what I can do in the 10 h. But that’s it. Okay, there’s a different mode. But they feel like, Hey.
250 00:40:32.990 ⇒ 00:40:42.509 Uttam Kumaran: maybe like, for example, if I’m like, Okay, cool, like, if you say you, you want to come in and post sell with me, and then maybe you get 60% of the revenue to execute. However, you want.
251 00:40:42.840 ⇒ 00:40:50.830 Uttam Kumaran: Or maybe it’s like, Hey, you could come in sell, sell, and project like, I think we’d have to decide like what sort of scope you’re interested in. But
252 00:40:51.400 ⇒ 00:41:16.290 Uttam Kumaran: I like this is, gonna be a huge part of our our business. And I just want to find something that’s like as interested in building these solutions for people that really need it. And you’d be surprised like the the same problems your small customers are having like. And I work for a lot of mom and pop like, when I 1st started this. The same problems these guys are having. It’s just the dollar signs are bigger. The sales processes.
253 00:41:16.930 ⇒ 00:41:17.460 Uttam Kumaran: right?
254 00:41:17.460 ⇒ 00:41:20.199 Uttam Kumaran: They have a lot of check boxes and
255 00:41:21.720 ⇒ 00:41:24.250 Uttam Kumaran: and also, like the scope, is bigger. So you need.
256 00:41:24.250 ⇒ 00:41:27.420 Aneesa: Yeah, but and it’s still like, higher.
257 00:41:27.420 ⇒ 00:41:28.428 Aneesa: The stakes are high.
258 00:41:28.680 ⇒ 00:41:29.100 Aneesa: Yeah.
259 00:41:29.100 ⇒ 00:41:30.390 Uttam Kumaran: Dry, but also like.
260 00:41:30.390 ⇒ 00:41:30.730 Aneesa: Pressure.
261 00:41:30.730 ⇒ 00:41:38.249 Uttam Kumaran: The con. The confidence is the same. Right, if you’re like, Hey, I know I can build you an AI thing. All our job is to show them how and show them what it is.
262 00:41:38.390 ⇒ 00:41:44.360 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s kind of like what I’m interested in. Maybe I I could sit on it a little bit, but I would love to for you to think about like
263 00:41:44.590 ⇒ 00:41:48.450 Uttam Kumaran: what availability you have, or or in what way you’d be interested. I mean.
264 00:41:48.670 ⇒ 00:42:08.289 Uttam Kumaran: I’m happy also to introduce it to anyone on our team. But I would love to hear like, yeah. And what way you think we can collaborate? We have several ongoing AI projects, and we also have several new clients that we’re pitching and some new clients that are starting. So there are avenues right now. I’m kind of the most senior person, both on the
265 00:42:08.420 ⇒ 00:42:12.050 Uttam Kumaran: sort of like account management side and the like.
266 00:42:13.158 ⇒ 00:42:15.950 Uttam Kumaran: Ai strategy or technical side.
267 00:42:15.950 ⇒ 00:42:16.350 Aneesa: Yeah.
268 00:42:16.600 ⇒ 00:42:24.040 Uttam Kumaran: In the company like we have some great engineers, but they’re they’re like they just will run towards executing. They’re not like thinking about the system.
269 00:42:24.340 ⇒ 00:42:24.840 Aneesa: Yeah.
270 00:42:24.840 ⇒ 00:42:31.810 Uttam Kumaran: Kind of it’s like, partly like it’s mainly kind of like almost of us could be a solutions architect. But again, it depends. This is where in my company.
271 00:42:32.300 ⇒ 00:42:37.819 Uttam Kumaran: if we have engineers, they’re like, Hey, I want to help on sales, and that’s exactly what I’ll do. Get them involved in sales. So there’s
272 00:42:38.150 ⇒ 00:42:55.209 Uttam Kumaran: we. I don’t really like to put deep titles on people much, because I know some people want to drift between certain sections like some people love the execution. Only some people love the sales. Some people kind of want to play in, both, like as a client gets towards the end, and then they want to help kick, stop, kick it off.
273 00:42:55.540 ⇒ 00:42:59.029 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s a lot of opportunity. I think the only thing is that
274 00:42:59.570 ⇒ 00:43:05.390 Uttam Kumaran: for me the only thing that we don’t compromise on is like the quality of the work like we try to. Really.
275 00:43:05.720 ⇒ 00:43:08.890 Uttam Kumaran: we try to really be on the edge of like what’s possible.
276 00:43:09.302 ⇒ 00:43:17.490 Uttam Kumaran: In AI. And I think as we grow the company, we’re just gonna get deeper, like, I think we’ll start doing stuff like fine tuning training models like, just get
277 00:43:17.700 ⇒ 00:43:19.930 Uttam Kumaran: more and more complex as we go.
278 00:43:20.680 ⇒ 00:43:39.399 Aneesa: Okay? So I have a couple of thoughts. So my expertise is not on the technical side, so much like, I’m not an engineer. By training. And nor do I have a deep interest in that. My background is more like
279 00:43:39.440 ⇒ 00:43:52.479 Aneesa: data side. So like, see? And in the marketing, vertical of like, okay, how do we approach our our marketing? And how do we analyze how it’s doing?
280 00:43:52.560 ⇒ 00:44:21.369 Aneesa: So that’s what I’ve been doing for the past few years. So I would not be able to really help on like the technical implementation side of like, okay, like I’ve done. I’ve played around like, okay, like this tool does this or that, but I’m not like the AI orchestrator quite yet. I can put together the idea and the plan and the strategy and project manage, but I cannot hands on the keyboard implementing.
281 00:44:21.400 ⇒ 00:44:35.550 Aneesa: That’s not to say that I can’t do that, but I haven’t yet had the chance to and then the other thing is like, if I move into like a sales only role like
282 00:44:35.590 ⇒ 00:44:48.490 Aneesa: I’d be concerned right like like, what if I’m not able to close like like, what if you bring good leads? But I’m not able to post them right then I would feel so bad, right? So
283 00:44:48.540 ⇒ 00:45:01.419 Aneesa: what? What could be like a middle ground like you are the founder? Right? So it coming from you trying to close the sale. It’s different than me trying to right? Or yeah, anyone else.
284 00:45:01.420 ⇒ 00:45:09.250 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t. So I don’t think like I don’t think there’s a there’s gonna be much of a chance of us getting sales off of my plate in terms of like
285 00:45:09.840 ⇒ 00:45:14.310 Uttam Kumaran: kicking things off and going, I think, where we certainly need help, is
286 00:45:14.540 ⇒ 00:45:18.179 Uttam Kumaran: creating project plans like when sales gets far enough.
287 00:45:18.808 ⇒ 00:45:22.299 Uttam Kumaran: The second piece is, we certainly need help on.
288 00:45:22.440 ⇒ 00:45:38.730 Uttam Kumaran: just like even just project management for clients. Right? But this again, where I think you’re probably selling yourself short on a technical side like you knew a play was, you know, kind of what these tools are. I get. I totally hear you where you’re like. I’m not like hands on money, but that’s actually fine.
289 00:45:39.040 ⇒ 00:45:49.139 Uttam Kumaran: What we need more of is like almost a partner to our project management team, because the project managers. Their job is to get the thing done on time like it says on the pages.
290 00:45:49.270 ⇒ 00:46:07.950 Uttam Kumaran: but they don’t. They’re not sort of critical over like how it’s getting done and what’s getting done? They’re critical on. When is it getting done? And how is it? Communicated the client. And if anything gets sent back to the kitchen. Right? That’s what they’re really opinionated on. So right now, I’m almost acting as like the tech lead.
291 00:46:08.070 ⇒ 00:46:19.929 Uttam Kumaran: like solutions architect on some of these, additionally, though, we also will have needs just on the sales side, on like, how do we articulate what we’re selling, even marketing and stuff for ourselves, right where we’re like.
292 00:46:19.930 ⇒ 00:46:20.470 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, great.
293 00:46:20.470 ⇒ 00:46:23.879 Uttam Kumaran: We go to market for our AI services.
294 00:46:23.880 ⇒ 00:46:25.650 Aneesa: That I came up with definitely.
295 00:46:25.650 ⇒ 00:46:27.509 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I’m the only person that
296 00:46:27.780 ⇒ 00:46:51.060 Uttam Kumaran: can bridge the gap between our marketing team and the data stuff. Okay, at least, there’s a lot written about it. The AI piece is a little bit harder, but we’re constantly releasing case studies constantly trying to do more marketing around our capabilities. And that’s where again, someone that just speaks the lingo is is really really well equipped, and you have a marketing background. But I mean, here’s even like, here’s even a thought like.
297 00:46:51.300 ⇒ 00:46:59.800 Uttam Kumaran: even if it’s possible for you to just like, come in and meet a couple of people and try a couple of things. Maybe we can time box something, and then you can tell me like
298 00:47:00.100 ⇒ 00:47:06.780 Uttam Kumaran: this was like perfect, or if it’s if if everything’s sort of like too much, and that’s it like that’s fine for me. I don’t.
299 00:47:06.780 ⇒ 00:47:07.230 Aneesa: And.
300 00:47:07.230 ⇒ 00:47:10.850 Uttam Kumaran: It’s hard for me to find to give, to give like a narrow angle, because
301 00:47:11.060 ⇒ 00:47:13.629 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think that’s what I’m look. I’m not looking for, like
302 00:47:13.890 ⇒ 00:47:15.919 Uttam Kumaran: someone who’s like only doing one thing.
303 00:47:16.540 ⇒ 00:47:36.979 Uttam Kumaran: Your background in multiple things is actually the advantage. But I would. I would want to give you, because I think you’re you’ve seen sort of what it is at, like the small business smb, level. I think this is at a little bit of a different level, and a little bit of a sort of like a larger size consultancy. But I would like for you to kind of see
304 00:47:37.140 ⇒ 00:47:38.900 Uttam Kumaran: what it’s like in the middle.
305 00:47:39.020 ⇒ 00:47:47.989 Uttam Kumaran: And then maybe you can kind of get a get a sense of like, okay, I think I can sit here and then also, like, you know. For me, it’d be curious on like what you want to do long term.
306 00:47:48.330 ⇒ 00:47:58.439 Uttam Kumaran: Are you interested in continuing to run your business like? Are you more interested? Okay, I just need. I want to get some side money. And while I run that like, you don’t have to answer that now. But
307 00:47:58.854 ⇒ 00:48:21.150 Uttam Kumaran: of course I will say, like, we’re building a company, and we’re trying to hire the best people. So I’m not afraid to even do deals where? Because you have experience on sales. I actually want to take advantage a lot of the folks that I hire. They’re engineers or their marketers or operators, but they’re they don’t have experience, even the slightest of just like running a thing and like.
308 00:48:21.150 ⇒ 00:48:21.670 Aneesa: Oh!
309 00:48:21.670 ⇒ 00:48:26.150 Uttam Kumaran: Strategically dropping balls, or like messing up and being okay with the failure. Right?
310 00:48:26.150 ⇒ 00:48:27.350 Aneesa: Yeah. And that’s me.
311 00:48:27.650 ⇒ 00:48:39.150 Uttam Kumaran: So I look for people who have that high agency. And the reason I I reached out is because I’m trying to call folks that have started one of these, or tried and didn’t work out or in the middle of it.
312 00:48:39.710 ⇒ 00:48:47.490 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think we have an opportunity to actually take a lot of the risk off your plate like Brainforge now, is like established brand. We have recruited all these stuff that we built.
313 00:48:47.600 ⇒ 00:48:51.279 Uttam Kumaran: but for me, what I don’t have is like people who are like.
314 00:48:51.740 ⇒ 00:48:58.119 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool, like, I have people to go write case study. And we have people to send email. But I need like, sort of that, like
315 00:48:58.440 ⇒ 00:49:02.689 Uttam Kumaran: generalist, general manager, like, kind of like, poke their hand up.
316 00:49:03.060 ⇒ 00:49:09.729 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s not even. It’s not really even cheapest stuff. It’s almost like someone who could like run a book of business or.
317 00:49:09.730 ⇒ 00:49:10.110 Aneesa: Alright!
318 00:49:10.110 ⇒ 00:49:14.500 Uttam Kumaran: Just play multiple hats. That’s not that’s not like an that’s not necessarily like an
319 00:49:14.919 ⇒ 00:49:17.990 Uttam Kumaran: just like I’m I’m an employee just in this one area.
320 00:49:18.550 ⇒ 00:49:20.408 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where we have opportunities.
321 00:49:20.780 ⇒ 00:49:21.310 Aneesa: Yeah.
322 00:49:21.310 ⇒ 00:49:31.329 Uttam Kumaran: You know, either to do rep split, or to do hourly, so I don’t know. Maybe think about it a little bit, and even as a next step. I’m happy to introduce you to one or 2 people on the team that you can chat with.
323 00:49:31.330 ⇒ 00:49:32.020 Aneesa: Yeah.
324 00:49:32.020 ⇒ 00:49:42.420 Uttam Kumaran: Just to say Hi, and ask them what it’s like. And I would just say, ask tough questions and dissect what it’s like working there. But to get you a couple of different angles of the company.
325 00:49:42.970 ⇒ 00:49:46.519 Aneesa: Yeah, I’d be very much open to that.
326 00:49:47.113 ⇒ 00:50:07.960 Aneesa: Yeah, I I will just also share that. I am like, also hunting for a W. 2 job. This stuff that’s come my way has been like a mediocre, but I am interviewing. So if anything good comes my way, like there’s a chance that I would, you know. Take that up?
327 00:50:08.445 ⇒ 00:50:21.609 Aneesa: That said like it would. It would only be like for the money like my heart, I think is like in like trying to build my own own business. But until it’s like there until it’s like.
328 00:50:22.300 ⇒ 00:50:33.710 Aneesa: you know, until we can replace. And W. 2 job. It’s really hard to like. Make that compromise it. It’s just in the reality of like bills have to be paid right.
329 00:50:34.230 ⇒ 00:50:45.840 Aneesa: But if something comes my way, like in terms of business, or like my own own businesses, just like Skyrocket. Or if any anything comes my way that would
330 00:50:46.200 ⇒ 00:50:48.740 Aneesa: like has potential to
331 00:50:48.840 ⇒ 00:50:55.789 Aneesa: replacing W. 2 job in the short term. Then. Yes, I would be very much open to that.
332 00:50:56.100 ⇒ 00:50:58.649 Aneesa: sure. And and you know, the other thing I’ll say is, is like.
333 00:50:59.040 ⇒ 00:51:14.410 Uttam Kumaran: I think, what what we’re sort of hoping to give an opportunity. Someone here is like this is a great stepping stone for you to see what it’s like to run something like this without any of the risk of running anything like this like, I don’t know, like the pressure we’re under now is like
334 00:51:14.730 ⇒ 00:51:22.349 Uttam Kumaran: even. It’s just quite a bit staggering, because there’s a lot of people’s livelihood on the line now. And and I think you know, we.
335 00:51:22.480 ⇒ 00:51:45.319 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s a great opportunity to kind of see inside what it’s like to do this, and hopefully, like it will do. It will do nothing but help you basically go to start your own and succeed faster. Right? So I do think there’s a lot of benefit, even if you’re like, Hey, I wanna I’m down to hang out and do this for a year or 2, and then I’m gonna go do my own thing. I actually don’t mind that. I just need to know, so that I can set you up.
336 00:51:45.320 ⇒ 00:51:46.010 Aneesa: Yeah.
337 00:51:46.010 ⇒ 00:51:47.710 Uttam Kumaran: In that way, plan for.
338 00:51:48.100 ⇒ 00:52:05.950 Aneesa: Sorry. So I should have clarified someone. I said that my heart is like to build my own business like, it’s either like, okay, like something like this, where, like, I’m a significant contributor, a partner. And the income could easily replace, like W. 2 job.
339 00:52:05.950 ⇒ 00:52:18.539 Aneesa: Or if something doesn’t pan out, then going out on out on my own like completely. But I I don’t have to like I I don’t have to. I’m totally open to something like this where there’s
340 00:52:18.550 ⇒ 00:52:22.606 Aneesa: significant growth potential sense.
341 00:52:23.020 ⇒ 00:52:23.600 Aneesa: Yeah.
342 00:52:23.600 ⇒ 00:52:26.049 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, perfect. Well, I have to run to them soon.
343 00:52:26.050 ⇒ 00:52:26.429 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.
344 00:52:26.430 ⇒ 00:52:35.129 Uttam Kumaran: But I appreciate the time. And how about I’ll I’ll be in touch over email, and maybe I’ll get you in contact with a couple of people in the team that you can chat with.
345 00:52:35.130 ⇒ 00:52:40.490 Aneesa: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And then we can see how to proceed based on that.
346 00:52:40.810 ⇒ 00:52:41.370 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, perfect.
347 00:52:41.400 ⇒ 00:52:44.360 Aneesa: Okay, thank you so much. I’ll see you take care, bye, bye.
348 00:52:44.360 ⇒ 00:52:45.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, bye.