Meeting Title: Brainforge x Jody Hesch Feedback Session Date: 2025-07-23 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Jody Hesch, Hannah Wang
WEBVTT
1 00:01:35.660 ⇒ 00:01:36.789 Jody Hesch: Hey! There!
2 00:01:38.990 ⇒ 00:01:39.480 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
3 00:01:42.800 ⇒ 00:01:43.690 Jody Hesch: Oh, man!
4 00:01:43.890 ⇒ 00:01:45.959 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dude! How are you? Long time.
5 00:01:46.450 ⇒ 00:01:48.879 Jody Hesch: Good. It’s been like a while. Been alright.
6 00:01:48.880 ⇒ 00:01:52.729 Uttam Kumaran: It’s been a while we talk all the time. But yeah, it’s been a while.
7 00:01:53.980 ⇒ 00:01:57.509 Jody Hesch: You’re always blowing up Linkedin with all kinds of cool shit, man, you guys are busy. Huh?
8 00:01:57.770 ⇒ 00:02:08.920 Uttam Kumaran: We are very busy. Yeah, I feel like one thing that we’re starting to do well is get our ideas out, which is good. But yeah, we’re just
9 00:02:08.990 ⇒ 00:02:35.079 Uttam Kumaran: just cranking. So it’s it’s been getting, you know, since our 1st got put in contact. Yeah, a lot of things have changed. It’s been good, though. It’s all been getting some new clients. I think we’re starting to finally get some clients that are challenging us technically. A lot of stuff has been pretty basic. So as an engineer, it wasn’t that like, it was more exciting about engineering the business. But now we’re getting some clients that are actually like a lot larger migrations and
10 00:02:35.140 ⇒ 00:02:44.778 Uttam Kumaran: interesting technical challenges. And like pace and things like that. So finally, getting being able to like demand higher rates and
11 00:02:45.260 ⇒ 00:02:50.399 Uttam Kumaran: have like an org behind. They come behind the behind us is great, so.
12 00:02:50.400 ⇒ 00:02:53.817 Jody Hesch: Yeah. Good stuff, man, are you? Used to writing code every day.
13 00:02:54.402 ⇒ 00:03:14.059 Uttam Kumaran: Today. I will probably like every 2 days or so these days. It’s kind of a bummer I I would like to do that, but it’s it’s like meetings every like hour and a half, Max. Sometimes like it’s every, you know, so it’s so hard to get into any sort of flow, but I’m doing a lot more.
14 00:03:14.610 ⇒ 00:03:18.839 Jody Hesch: I’m happy to step away from code, I mean, I guess.
15 00:03:18.840 ⇒ 00:03:28.500 Uttam Kumaran: I’m doing a lot more writing. And you know, I think the engineering work that I do is is thinking about engineering processes for the business. So not exactly code, but
16 00:03:28.730 ⇒ 00:03:51.760 Uttam Kumaran: I do think about it like who needs what output like, what meetings like. I think about those challenges as an engineer. And you know where I sit. I’m doing. I’m helping the team on a lot of AI work. So we do a lot of internal AI automations. And I’m the project manager for that group, because I’m sort of the only person that can kind of see the whole picture both sides in a field of AI, where
17 00:03:51.880 ⇒ 00:03:58.154 Uttam Kumaran: it’s so brand new. So like, I have like kind of the use cases. And I’m able to connect the right people.
18 00:03:59.130 ⇒ 00:04:21.928 Uttam Kumaran: but we’ll see. I I still, I’m still on clients and doing more architecture and like tech review stuff. So so yeah, it’s been good. And and Hannah’s here. I don’t think you kind of chatted over email. But Hannah leads a lot of stuff for us on the design and marketing side. So all the beautiful visualizations that you’re seeing on the site and the stuff on Linkedin.
19 00:04:22.250 ⇒ 00:04:31.670 Uttam Kumaran: it’s coming from from her vision. So yeah, I’m super excited to sort of connect this crew. And yeah, I mean, kind of 2 things for the agenda today. One
20 00:04:32.055 ⇒ 00:04:50.149 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re someone in this sort of it consulting world that I know. sees both the business side and the marketing side, but also understands like the technical, like, what actually are we building. And so we’re starting to develop a lot of
21 00:04:50.380 ⇒ 00:05:19.899 Uttam Kumaran: more case studies and so collateral that would love to just get your feedback on. This is collateral. That, again, is supposed to try to build authority. But it’s stuff that we’re sending to clients as part of our sales cycles. So I think we’ll we’ll demonstrate a couple of those, and then also like would love to talk a little bit about maybe getting you signed as like one of our referral partners. We we’re kind of sort of leading this on our team. Across broadly across partnerships. Again, we have vendor partners. We have other agency partners.
22 00:05:20.184 ⇒ 00:05:44.949 Uttam Kumaran: We have like recruiting partners. But we also are trying to establish referral partner motion. Where I know you’re out in the field talking to a lot of people. If there is a client we wanna make, we wanna give you a good reason to refer us and also give you all the resources that we can, whether it’s assets, but also whether it’s help from our sales team, or whatever so we’d love to to chat about that as well.
23 00:05:45.260 ⇒ 00:05:47.260 Jody Hesch: That all sounds great good to meet you, Hannah.
24 00:05:48.270 ⇒ 00:05:49.770 Hannah Wang: Nice meeting you.
25 00:05:50.950 ⇒ 00:06:03.030 Hannah Wang: I don’t even know where to begin. I know you took a look at our comparison diagrams a while back. Is that the only kind of asset that you’ve like we Tom has sent over to you for review.
26 00:06:03.550 ⇒ 00:06:05.890 Hannah Wang: or do you remember if there’s anything else.
27 00:06:05.890 ⇒ 00:06:07.550 Jody Hesch: That I remember offhand.
28 00:06:08.050 ⇒ 00:06:08.480 Hannah Wang: Okay.
29 00:06:08.480 ⇒ 00:06:08.799 Uttam Kumaran: I think.
30 00:06:08.800 ⇒ 00:06:09.400 Hannah Wang: That’s all.
31 00:06:09.750 ⇒ 00:06:10.100 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
32 00:06:10.100 ⇒ 00:06:12.809 Hannah Wang: Okay? So I
33 00:06:13.080 ⇒ 00:06:27.160 Hannah Wang: I know you left a bunch of comments. In like an email thread with a tool comparison diagram. So maybe we’ll kind of pivot to kind of our one pagers. So let me share my sigma screen.
34 00:06:29.100 ⇒ 00:06:48.119 Hannah Wang: Okay, so ignore this on the right. I just made a copy of it to make it cleaner. And so comments aren’t everywhere. But basically, I think we’ll kind of show you kind of the one pagers and kind of assets that we send to leads and clients. This one in particular.
35 00:06:48.120 ⇒ 00:06:59.688 Hannah Wang: All of them look kind of similar. They’re just different variations. Going from more general to specific but this is kind of the general services. One pager that we have.
36 00:07:00.361 ⇒ 00:07:19.690 Hannah Wang: I don’t know if you had a chance to look at this. But if not, I guess yeah, any feedback would be helpful from kind of what pops out to what kind of your eyes gloss over to kind of what’s confusing what you think we should make bigger or emphasize more. So yeah, any of your thoughts. Are welcome.
37 00:07:21.740 ⇒ 00:07:29.089 Jody Hesch: Cool. I’ll just Riff. I haven’t looked at this before. In that 1st line at the top. I think the 1st sentence is good
38 00:07:32.100 ⇒ 00:07:46.249 Jody Hesch: the second sense like I. And I’m sure I’ve seen everybody debate this. Every company I’ve ever been at, right where it says build affordable right like. Do you want that word affordable in there or not? There’s a time and a place for it, and at some point that people just start
39 00:07:46.640 ⇒ 00:07:51.189 Jody Hesch: hanging on that lever, and and you know, so I don’t know. I.
40 00:07:51.190 ⇒ 00:07:51.590 Uttam Kumaran: I hear you.
41 00:07:51.590 ⇒ 00:07:53.690 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just calling out that I know the debate.
42 00:07:53.690 ⇒ 00:08:03.639 Uttam Kumaran: This is great. I I stream a conscious is perfect because we’ve we’ve been staring at this for so long that, like some of the words, Here I will. It’ll just glaze over my eyes. So that’s that’s great.
43 00:08:03.790 ⇒ 00:08:18.199 Jody Hesch: No worries, growth, focus data, infrastructure, debatable like. I know what you’re saying, because I know the domain. But infrastructure, a lot of people could just think cloud on prem actual infrastructure. So maybe there’s
44 00:08:18.810 ⇒ 00:08:24.199 Jody Hesch: maybe there’s a better, some better language there. I mean, I get it. And maybe you don’t need to change it, but just calling that out.
45 00:08:25.072 ⇒ 00:08:33.279 Jody Hesch: ebitda is a pretty finance specific acronym. So if your clientele, if your target, if your Icp
46 00:08:33.380 ⇒ 00:08:42.720 Jody Hesch: our finance organization, Cfos, etc. Then that’s fine. But if you’ve got folks looking at this content that don’t know how to look at financial reports.
47 00:08:42.860 ⇒ 00:08:44.269 Jody Hesch: maybe use something different.
48 00:08:44.990 ⇒ 00:08:46.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, give me a sort of
49 00:08:46.840 ⇒ 00:09:05.960 Uttam Kumaran: to give you this sort of context on our on our Icp. Now, you know, we we mainly are targeting the executive office. So typically, it’s the CEO Coo or CTO and then our stakeholders, when we engage, you know, that may be the head of data or the head of growth. But typically we’re selling to there. So
50 00:09:06.120 ⇒ 00:09:16.660 Uttam Kumaran: we try to align everything towards our revenue growth, not so much like cost mitigation, although we can talk about that. But everything towards like towards mainly revenue growth.
51 00:09:17.228 ⇒ 00:09:28.203 Uttam Kumaran: You know, we could remove even just revenue. But that’s how we’re we’re tying everything like, for example, we stopped doing engage. We stopped doing work related to like
52 00:09:29.710 ⇒ 00:09:54.770 Uttam Kumaran: like ticket measurement. You know, platforms like Zendesk, right? Because that wasn’t really like super directed around revenue. We also are not doing as much on the marketing optimization side, like optimizing ad spend. So everything is around product profitability service, land profitability. Cac churn, customer segmentation, basically trying to align towards the revenue side of the business.
53 00:09:55.739 ⇒ 00:10:03.110 Uttam Kumaran: Just one sort of more narrow positioning. We haven’t narrowed industry wise much yet, but at least we
54 00:10:03.230 ⇒ 00:10:06.756 Uttam Kumaran: said no to a couple of things on the data side. Finally.
55 00:10:07.050 ⇒ 00:10:13.450 Jody Hesch: Okay, everything you just said contradicts the content below where it says successes.
56 00:10:13.750 ⇒ 00:10:18.649 Jody Hesch: because the 1st metric is cost the 3rd metric is
57 00:10:19.170 ⇒ 00:10:22.559 Jody Hesch: not going to speak to a CEO meaningfully, I don’t think.
58 00:10:22.750 ⇒ 00:10:27.950 Jody Hesch: And that middle one is on ad spend. And I think you just said you might not be focusing on that as much. So
59 00:10:31.000 ⇒ 00:10:31.849 Jody Hesch: I understand.
60 00:10:31.850 ⇒ 00:10:33.810 Uttam Kumaran: Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
61 00:10:34.790 ⇒ 00:10:39.027 Jody Hesch: Okay, down to services.
62 00:10:40.270 ⇒ 00:10:49.590 Jody Hesch: and I mean, I, I guess I yeah, just if you’re focusing on growth, if you’re focusing on C-suite. Then you might not want to put any technical kpis. You know things like lines of code.
63 00:10:49.920 ⇒ 00:10:53.990 Jody Hesch: I get it as a nerd, but not something. A CEO is gonna care about.
64 00:10:57.110 ⇒ 00:10:58.060 Jody Hesch: Okay.
65 00:11:07.650 ⇒ 00:11:22.289 Jody Hesch: just a dumb, subconscious thing. But their own strategy where it says own problems, just the word problems is just gonna put this implicit bad taste in somebody’s mouth from my perspective, if you’re speaking to
66 00:11:22.600 ⇒ 00:11:32.559 Jody Hesch: solutions for specific problems, that’s 1 thing. But if it’s a statement that uses the word problems, but it’s not tied to a specific solution. I would hesitate
67 00:11:32.950 ⇒ 00:11:34.290 Jody Hesch: just a small thing.
68 00:11:34.840 ⇒ 00:11:37.699 Jody Hesch: Otherwise the services stuff, I think, looks good.
69 00:11:38.343 ⇒ 00:11:47.819 Jody Hesch: I think it’s the right letter level of generic right? Like it. It. It gestures it bi and data warehousing and AI without getting like overly pedantic. So I think that’s good, and I like that.
70 00:11:47.820 ⇒ 00:11:48.540 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
71 00:11:51.179 ⇒ 00:11:54.919 Jody Hesch: Cool. I like the data journey thing on the bottom. Let me just read it.
72 00:12:02.150 ⇒ 00:12:08.390 Jody Hesch: I would make it cost effective, flexible data platforms instead of foundations.
73 00:12:21.620 ⇒ 00:12:23.440 Jody Hesch: Again, just a small detail.
74 00:12:23.630 ⇒ 00:12:31.960 Jody Hesch: But if you say, impact your bottom line, then that’s accounting for the expenses of your P. And L.
75 00:12:32.460 ⇒ 00:12:36.110 Jody Hesch: Versus if you’re really wanting to hit the Ebitda as a concept.
76 00:12:36.110 ⇒ 00:12:36.510 Uttam Kumaran: Makes sense.
77 00:12:36.510 ⇒ 00:12:42.290 Jody Hesch: I don’t know how much that matters. Let me still stare at this diagram thing.
78 00:13:10.390 ⇒ 00:13:12.859 Jody Hesch: I think it’s fine. I think the bottom looks good.
79 00:13:15.250 ⇒ 00:13:17.859 Jody Hesch: Yeah. Otherwise it’s good. Man. Yeah, very slick.
80 00:13:18.660 ⇒ 00:13:18.964 Uttam Kumaran: Cool.
81 00:13:21.350 ⇒ 00:13:25.649 Hannah Wang: Oh, okay, do you think we should like
82 00:13:25.890 ⇒ 00:13:34.119 Hannah Wang: make the chart bigger to make people focus on that more? Or do you think just this layout is like your eyes. Go to where it should go.
83 00:13:34.490 ⇒ 00:13:35.609 Jody Hesch: Feels like they do.
84 00:13:36.210 ⇒ 00:13:36.840 Hannah Wang: Cool.
85 00:13:38.530 ⇒ 00:13:48.160 Hannah Wang: Great cause I I we’ve also gotten feedback where maybe we should make the chart like bigger. We’ve also yeah thought about that ourselves just like cause. This chart, I think, is.
86 00:13:49.080 ⇒ 00:13:50.720 Hannah Wang: I don’t know. I feel like it’s
87 00:13:51.100 ⇒ 00:14:02.349 Hannah Wang: nice. But I think if you think it looks okay, the way it is. That’s awesome feedback, too. Okay, let me go down to. So this
88 00:14:02.500 ⇒ 00:14:08.699 Hannah Wang: I mean, I don’t know, Tom. If it’s worth going over the more specific service offerings that we have.
89 00:14:08.700 ⇒ 00:14:14.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let’s let’s let’s go through this. I think the top part is gonna be the same. But I’m kind of interested in like
90 00:14:15.260 ⇒ 00:14:30.959 Uttam Kumaran: hearing Jodi’s overall feedback on this. Basically, we kind of want to have like a document for every kind of like objection as well as like every sort of curiosity, like some clients are really interested in something more detailed, or they’re more technical, or
91 00:14:31.040 ⇒ 00:14:47.809 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, I don’t wanna hit them with something generic. I don’t wanna hit them with like a deloitte. One pager, I wanna give them some meat. There’s also some people where I have no idea where they stand. So we hit them with a couple of different things. But this is probably one where we go a little bit deeper into
92 00:14:47.920 ⇒ 00:14:51.070 Uttam Kumaran: our service offerings, and then I put a little bit of a section on like
93 00:14:51.290 ⇒ 00:14:52.989 Uttam Kumaran: kind of how we, how we work.
94 00:14:55.260 ⇒ 00:14:56.931 Jody Hesch: Okay, sweet, let me stare at it.
95 00:15:21.850 ⇒ 00:15:24.960 Jody Hesch: I’m so pedantic, dude, so just ignore half my feedback.
96 00:15:25.160 ⇒ 00:15:26.709 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no.
97 00:15:26.710 ⇒ 00:15:35.179 Jody Hesch: That 1st tile says, Understand your users journey clearly, I suspect if you quiz, chat, gpt, you’d get a better, more
98 00:15:35.370 ⇒ 00:15:40.870 Jody Hesch: precise verb. Then clearly understand. I think you could probably use a more targeted term there.
99 00:15:40.990 ⇒ 00:15:42.410 Jody Hesch: Just a dumb detail.
100 00:15:59.300 ⇒ 00:16:05.559 Jody Hesch: The only thing I would, and this is probably totally fine. I’ll just state the obvious that you and I both know
101 00:16:05.710 ⇒ 00:16:08.300 Jody Hesch: is that data. Engineering is a back end function.
102 00:16:09.030 ⇒ 00:16:10.399 Jody Hesch: It supports
103 00:16:10.670 ⇒ 00:16:17.260 Jody Hesch: something that drives revenue right? So that middle piece may be perfectly fine, depending on the persona that you’re targeting.
104 00:16:17.430 ⇒ 00:16:20.460 Jody Hesch: But obviously, if it’s somebody that yeah.
105 00:16:21.610 ⇒ 00:16:29.649 Jody Hesch: like, there’s probably gonna be folks that understand Ab, testing, turn and retention all that stuff, but they don’t really care about how the sausage is made, so
106 00:16:30.070 ⇒ 00:16:33.750 Jody Hesch: I I don’t know like that middle piece could be totally fine. Just depends on your persona
107 00:16:49.240 ⇒ 00:16:55.340 Jody Hesch: On that last one put automate operations and eliminate manual touch points and workflows.
108 00:16:59.220 ⇒ 00:17:02.469 Jody Hesch: Customer engagement tasks is a bit of a mouthful.
109 00:17:12.500 ⇒ 00:17:14.949 Jody Hesch: What’s lead, researcher? What does that mean?
110 00:17:15.800 ⇒ 00:17:19.879 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve built some stuff to help sales teams sort of research.
111 00:17:19.880 ⇒ 00:17:20.790 Jody Hesch: Oh, leave this!
112 00:17:21.343 ⇒ 00:17:24.189 Jody Hesch: I’ve just got it like a customer does not.
113 00:17:24.190 ⇒ 00:17:25.020 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.
114 00:17:25.020 ⇒ 00:17:27.239 Jody Hesch: Not a seniority on a hierarchy.
115 00:17:27.470 ⇒ 00:17:28.200 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no.
116 00:17:36.550 ⇒ 00:17:40.179 Jody Hesch: Okay, let me stare at this bottom. One.
117 00:18:06.530 ⇒ 00:18:10.080 Jody Hesch: just 2 small things on the bottom. I might remove the slack and the zoom
118 00:18:10.180 ⇒ 00:18:19.629 Jody Hesch: icons, just because you could use any tech in the world, and I guess it’s kind of implicit that you would just use whatever you determine makes the most sense, and the colors detract a little bit from your palette.
119 00:18:21.820 ⇒ 00:18:25.769 Jody Hesch: and then the only other thing is in the cycle on the right
120 00:18:26.080 ⇒ 00:18:29.829 Jody Hesch: for what it’s worth. You could also use the word optimize instead of assess.
121 00:18:30.825 ⇒ 00:18:38.629 Jody Hesch: I think assess is fine, but assess is just generic. It just means look at something versus optimize is like proactively adding more value
122 00:18:38.970 ⇒ 00:18:44.790 Jody Hesch: whether it’s optimizing a business process or optimizing performance or anything else. So I just feel like optimize is more appealing.
123 00:18:45.090 ⇒ 00:18:48.730 Jody Hesch: I will say that the arrows just look kind of
124 00:18:49.820 ⇒ 00:18:53.020 Jody Hesch: like. It’s not a visual circle. I don’t know if there’s a way to improve that.
125 00:18:53.020 ⇒ 00:18:54.259 Uttam Kumaran: Pete, you are right.
126 00:18:54.260 ⇒ 00:18:59.259 Hannah Wang: Yeah, not a perfect circle, I agree.
127 00:19:00.470 ⇒ 00:19:01.240 Jody Hesch: Cool.
128 00:19:01.240 ⇒ 00:19:07.390 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is sort of where I’m like, look, I could tell people like, Hey, we run job brands and whatever. But.
129 00:19:09.070 ⇒ 00:19:09.743 Jody Hesch: You what.
130 00:19:10.080 ⇒ 00:19:18.350 Uttam Kumaran: I I could tell people that we run like agile sprints, and you know, like we do stand up stuff like that. But I just want to share that like we have a process, you know.
131 00:19:18.350 ⇒ 00:19:20.249 Jody Hesch: Yeah, I think it’s fine.
132 00:19:20.440 ⇒ 00:19:21.480 Jody Hesch: I think it’s good
133 00:19:23.480 ⇒ 00:19:29.220 Jody Hesch: again. You’re as you as you know you, you, the people you’re selling to you are gonna care more about outcomes than than process.
134 00:19:29.220 ⇒ 00:19:32.249 Uttam Kumaran: These are just like, kind of check. Check the box. Yeah.
135 00:19:32.600 ⇒ 00:19:33.689 Jody Hesch: Yeah, no, I think it’s fine.
136 00:19:35.630 ⇒ 00:19:43.840 Hannah Wang: Cool do we want to go over this utam more like specific ones.
137 00:19:44.590 ⇒ 00:19:59.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I I just maybe Joey could get your overall feedback of this like, sometimes people ask us, like, what are the services? And on our site. We’re gonna sort of list. These are like the sub services under data. We’re basically, this is our format. Now again, it’s a lot of text.
138 00:20:00.090 ⇒ 00:20:07.500 Uttam Kumaran: because a lot of this is not like very visual, although maybe the dashboarding part is. But I’m just gonna we’re just basically listing our services.
139 00:20:08.015 ⇒ 00:20:23.809 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I don’t feel like in any sales conversations I’ve had. They’ve ever gotten to this point. In fact, I think this is just Con continuing to build our authority like, if this gets forwarded, someone else on the team, I want them to show. See? The depth.
140 00:20:24.040 ⇒ 00:20:25.220 Jody Hesch: Yeah, sure
141 00:20:39.330 ⇒ 00:20:41.409 Jody Hesch: think the only thing that catches my eye
142 00:20:41.560 ⇒ 00:20:45.290 Jody Hesch: that could use some wordsmithing would be where it says how we work.
143 00:20:45.760 ⇒ 00:20:47.689 Jody Hesch: because I don’t understand what you’re saying.
144 00:20:48.270 ⇒ 00:20:52.369 Jody Hesch: Where it says our approach is all about high agency. I don’t know what that means.
145 00:20:52.660 ⇒ 00:21:14.079 Jody Hesch: My intuition is that you’re trying to empower your clients with a higher amount of agency, meaning you walk away from the engagement. They have everything they need to be successful. That’s kind of what I feel from looking at the green. But then, when I read the details, identifying core challenges swiftly, then, paving a direct path to resolution with determination, like. I don’t. That doesn’t line up. I I just don’t get it.
146 00:21:15.940 ⇒ 00:21:17.380 Jody Hesch: The second paragraph
147 00:21:17.560 ⇒ 00:21:23.429 Jody Hesch: again doesn’t add much for me. Personally, I would expect anybody. That’s gonna that I’m gonna hire.
148 00:21:23.820 ⇒ 00:21:35.839 Jody Hesch: Better fall in line with how I work with my business and communicate. Or else we’re gonna have issues. But it’s not a. It’s not a differentiator, and depending on how you value limited real estate
149 00:21:36.340 ⇒ 00:21:39.460 Jody Hesch: on a 1 pager, I might remove it.
150 00:21:39.460 ⇒ 00:22:05.870 Uttam Kumaran: Do you think that’s worth trying to differentiate in terms of like how we communicate? I mean to tell you like, what I try to tell people is like one we like. I’ve been in their position like not only running data teams, but I’m also now business owner. So we built some empathy there. Second is like I. When I think about consultants, I think about sort of people waiting to do stuff for me.
151 00:22:05.920 ⇒ 00:22:33.969 Uttam Kumaran: or like kind of waiting a long time to get a result. In in fact, I think for most of our clients, where we try to be like borderline, annoying with how proactive. We are right. So that’s sort of what I want to convey is like I to tell you what I tell my team. I tell our team we need to be better communicators and their best employee. And that’s our standard, right? So trying to see how I can convey that if anyone ever reads this section. That’s what I want to convey.
152 00:22:34.430 ⇒ 00:22:35.180 Jody Hesch: Got it.
153 00:22:36.920 ⇒ 00:22:41.580 Jody Hesch: I just don’t know if it’s a differentiator, I mean, and and most consulting
154 00:22:42.000 ⇒ 00:22:47.230 Jody Hesch: cause I you know, I know. I think we’ve talked a little bit like, you know, I’ve done freelance. I’ve subbed for all the big fours. I’ve
155 00:22:47.800 ⇒ 00:22:49.910 Jody Hesch: let a team at a boutique place like
156 00:22:51.760 ⇒ 00:22:54.360 Jody Hesch: they’re all gonna say that as far as I’m concerned, like I don’t.
157 00:22:55.020 ⇒ 00:22:58.430 Jody Hesch: I don’t disagree with the real life value of it, and it is.
158 00:22:58.430 ⇒ 00:22:59.310 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, no! Wait!
159 00:22:59.310 ⇒ 00:23:00.600 Jody Hesch: Operationally.
160 00:23:00.700 ⇒ 00:23:05.660 Jody Hesch: I don’t know if that’s gonna meaningfully position you.
161 00:23:06.038 ⇒ 00:23:13.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay, so maybe we should either remove and just keep a blank here or sub in for something more meaningful.
162 00:23:14.870 ⇒ 00:23:20.829 Jody Hesch: The the other thought is like specifically using adjectives. Proactive is good.
163 00:23:22.890 ⇒ 00:23:27.129 Jody Hesch: Describing, like Async versus real time.
164 00:23:28.407 ⇒ 00:23:38.270 Jody Hesch: How you’re leveraging knowledge, management, tools and documentation best practices. Obviously not any AI enabled
165 00:23:38.760 ⇒ 00:23:44.039 Jody Hesch: communication summaries whatever. I mean, there’s there’s probably opportunity
166 00:23:44.750 ⇒ 00:23:48.320 Jody Hesch: to meaningfully speak to that. But I
167 00:23:49.000 ⇒ 00:23:51.330 Jody Hesch: I’m not totally sure, and I I wouldn’t.
168 00:23:55.020 ⇒ 00:23:56.810 Jody Hesch: I don’t know. It needs some more thought, I guess.
169 00:23:59.610 ⇒ 00:24:03.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe it’s just a couple of core bullet points, Hannah. That’s just like
170 00:24:04.178 ⇒ 00:24:26.501 Uttam Kumaran: unique things about the way we work like we should totally highlight that we are ourselves remote company. We rely a lot on, you know, just the best communication methods or frameworks, or whatever. I will figure out how to work. That I think the second thing is, yes, I wanna highlight that we use AI for a lot. So they should expect a faster, more organized. You know, product.
171 00:24:27.110 ⇒ 00:24:29.849 Uttam Kumaran: We can think about 2 or 3 of these bullets
172 00:24:30.350 ⇒ 00:24:34.839 Uttam Kumaran: unique, some something that like is unique, truly unique about what we do.
173 00:24:35.320 ⇒ 00:24:38.229 Uttam Kumaran: That’s a good. That’s a good point of feedback, and.
174 00:24:38.230 ⇒ 00:24:44.599 Jody Hesch: You can. You can use those marketing buckwords. Right? You can put like remote efficiency with onsite.
175 00:24:45.230 ⇒ 00:24:46.220 Jody Hesch: Yeah, tomorrow.
176 00:24:46.540 ⇒ 00:24:49.099 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what. Yeah, that’s it. There it is.
177 00:24:49.230 ⇒ 00:24:49.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
178 00:24:51.580 ⇒ 00:24:54.238 Jody Hesch: You know, crap like that white glove is always a good one.
179 00:24:57.790 ⇒ 00:25:03.249 Jody Hesch: but yeah, otherwise otherwise. I think the page is fine, like you said. And I I’m
180 00:25:04.610 ⇒ 00:25:08.270 Jody Hesch: I think I would probably agree with
181 00:25:09.180 ⇒ 00:25:15.619 Jody Hesch: your 5 different data services. You have 3 generic, and then 2 of them are tools, specific. Dbt and Snowflake.
182 00:25:15.750 ⇒ 00:25:18.450 Jody Hesch: Hi, it’s obvious.
183 00:25:18.670 ⇒ 00:25:30.350 Jody Hesch: but I think it’s fine because of the ubiquitous presence of Dbt and Snowflake. Right? I do think Dbt is lowercase, though I think in all of the online marketing, Dbt is always lower case.
184 00:25:30.350 ⇒ 00:25:31.390 Hannah Wang: Oh!
185 00:25:32.940 ⇒ 00:25:38.149 Jody Hesch: but otherwise I think it makes sense to include Dbt and Snowflake, because those are kind of table stakes for any modern.
186 00:25:38.150 ⇒ 00:25:47.340 Uttam Kumaran: Those are just a Logos for me, like any like you know. Honestly, for even we’re gonna probably add something around product analytics. I’m just gonna slap
187 00:25:47.934 ⇒ 00:25:50.155 Uttam Kumaran: segment or amplitude on that.
188 00:25:50.600 ⇒ 00:25:52.960 Jody Hesch: Yeah, yeah, cool.
189 00:25:54.400 ⇒ 00:25:54.990 Hannah Wang: Awesome.
190 00:25:56.022 ⇒ 00:25:59.719 Hannah Wang: Okay, I think we can move on to
191 00:26:02.060 ⇒ 00:26:07.970 Hannah Wang: this one. Well, I’m currently redoing it. But let me go to
192 00:26:09.940 ⇒ 00:26:12.721 Hannah Wang: let me make another copy of this. So it’s cleaner.
193 00:26:16.320 ⇒ 00:26:24.710 Hannah Wang: So this is an example. I feel like Tom can say this better than I can. But it’s basically like a sample plan and roadmap. That
194 00:26:25.350 ⇒ 00:26:36.660 Hannah Wang: we kind of fleshed out that we can send to leads so that they can see that we’re legit and also kind of show them that would show them what they’re gonna get from working with us.
195 00:26:37.880 ⇒ 00:26:38.289 Hannah Wang: Feel free to.
196 00:26:38.290 ⇒ 00:26:45.009 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe maybe it’s I don’t know if you want to just send Jodi this like Link, so you can pull it up on his end. It’s maybe.
197 00:26:45.010 ⇒ 00:26:45.530 Hannah Wang: Okay.
198 00:26:45.530 ⇒ 00:26:49.808 Uttam Kumaran: I hope it’s gonna be, or we can go page by page. Jodi, what do you think.
199 00:26:51.090 ⇒ 00:26:52.599 Jody Hesch: It don’t matter to me.
200 00:26:52.600 ⇒ 00:26:54.190 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, maybe let’s go.
201 00:26:54.190 ⇒ 00:26:57.909 Jody Hesch: I would rather knock it out now, just so. I don’t have one more thing on my to do list. When you finish this meeting.
202 00:26:57.910 ⇒ 00:27:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no meaning like we were just gonna send you the link to open on your end. If the zoom, if
203 00:27:02.950 ⇒ 00:27:20.989 Uttam Kumaran: okay, okay, perfect. Then, yeah, I I guess, like, I, I want, this is like something new that we’re working on, basically anything we generate during the sales process. I try to find a way to get it into an artifact, because people always ask us like, Hey, like, can I get a sample of like
204 00:27:20.990 ⇒ 00:27:34.170 Uttam Kumaran: project, management, plan or sample of whatever. So this is like, we basically took a strategy, Doc, that we developed for a client and tried to beautify it. And this is something. Now, I can send to anybody that’s like, how do you guys do the work again?
205 00:27:34.180 ⇒ 00:27:40.498 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna show detail. We’re gonna show depth, but a lot of this is written by AI
206 00:27:41.170 ⇒ 00:27:54.226 Uttam Kumaran: but I kinda wanted to just get your perspective on each page. If there’s anything redundant or useless. It’s a kind of a long documents ideally would probably like to cut out one page. But yeah.
207 00:27:54.800 ⇒ 00:27:59.450 Jody Hesch: Might remove the word sample from the title. Just a thought.
208 00:28:03.380 ⇒ 00:28:06.349 Jody Hesch: It just feels more valuable. If it’s like
209 00:28:06.630 ⇒ 00:28:08.420 Jody Hesch: the closer it is to the real thing
210 00:28:09.250 ⇒ 00:28:12.260 Jody Hesch: that more value people are gonna perceive when they have it in hand.
211 00:28:13.360 ⇒ 00:28:14.220 Jody Hesch: Not a big deal.
212 00:28:15.110 ⇒ 00:28:18.289 Jody Hesch: Okay, let me stare at it at a glance.
213 00:28:40.860 ⇒ 00:28:42.540 Jody Hesch: What does cycle length mean?
214 00:28:47.600 ⇒ 00:28:50.208 Uttam Kumaran: Good question, good question, we should remove that.
215 00:28:59.329 ⇒ 00:29:04.120 Jody Hesch: Under scope. I would probably not bold user journey from.
216 00:29:05.800 ⇒ 00:29:06.560 Hannah Wang: Hmm.
217 00:29:06.560 ⇒ 00:29:07.539 Jody Hesch: That’s my thoughts.
218 00:29:07.810 ⇒ 00:29:08.430 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
219 00:29:08.910 ⇒ 00:29:12.576 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna add some icons on these right. These blocks. Hannah.
220 00:29:13.312 ⇒ 00:29:17.737 Hannah Wang: Yeah, we can. I, yeah, we should. It’s tech. Savvy?
221 00:29:26.770 ⇒ 00:29:36.200 Jody Hesch: Small language thing, but this running growth experiments could be a little sharper by saying something like running growth experiments to validate funnel hypotheses.
222 00:29:40.330 ⇒ 00:29:42.450 Jody Hesch: more active wars than passive wars.
223 00:29:47.910 ⇒ 00:29:53.739 Uttam Kumaran: One thing I’d probably add to is like on the goal. I think I honestly, wanna put like
224 00:29:53.940 ⇒ 00:30:02.110 Uttam Kumaran: this is gonna impact revenue. This is gonna impact lower customer churn like, I really want to just put like the arrow. And then the the Kpi
225 00:30:02.624 ⇒ 00:30:15.400 Uttam Kumaran: kind of want to go even one step further, I think we could probably make the goal section a little bit wider, or whatever we do. But I basically want to do like arrow to revenue down arrow on customer. Turn like
226 00:30:15.840 ⇒ 00:30:17.677 Uttam Kumaran: that’s the level.
227 00:30:18.290 ⇒ 00:30:19.010 Hannah Wang: Okay.
228 00:30:21.740 ⇒ 00:30:25.914 Uttam Kumaran: Versus like I mean, I honestly, I’m just gonna delete whatever the text is. To be honest.
229 00:30:36.560 ⇒ 00:30:40.329 Uttam Kumaran: Or the the basically that text to move to the scope. Yeah.
230 00:31:00.020 ⇒ 00:31:02.340 Jody Hesch: Alright. I’m still reading. I’m reading it now at the bottom.
231 00:31:10.290 ⇒ 00:31:17.129 Jody Hesch: This one’s a little bit. I just feel like it’s tricky just because of how humans are right. Nobody wants you to call their baby ugly.
232 00:31:17.540 ⇒ 00:31:19.490 Jody Hesch: and that’s what companies do.
233 00:31:19.790 ⇒ 00:31:26.131 Jody Hesch: So it’s if you have a good consulting company, they’ll unearth all kinds of crap that you don’t want to admit sucks.
234 00:31:26.800 ⇒ 00:31:31.340 Jody Hesch: And so the bottom and one hand it demonstrate it reflects
235 00:31:31.620 ⇒ 00:31:33.770 Jody Hesch: a lot of high impact findings.
236 00:31:34.675 ⇒ 00:31:41.825 Jody Hesch: I think the challenge is that when somebody looks at it like, Oh, man, if I hire these guys they’re just gonna tear my shit apart.
237 00:31:42.100 ⇒ 00:31:51.409 Uttam Kumaran: This is where, like I, I’ll I guess my opinion is that typically we’re going after the C-suite or folks that are like, not happy.
238 00:31:51.590 ⇒ 00:31:52.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, right?
239 00:31:52.530 ⇒ 00:32:00.060 Uttam Kumaran: And they are getting an opinion from someone internally. That’s either, hey? I need 10 more people or like, it’s not my fault.
240 00:32:00.320 ⇒ 00:32:00.800 Jody Hesch: So we.
241 00:32:00.800 ⇒ 00:32:03.076 Uttam Kumaran: Come in as like the 3rd party that’s like.
242 00:32:03.820 ⇒ 00:32:11.649 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t like whose fault it is necessarily, or whatever. That’s not my problem. This is not happening, and you should go. Do this.
243 00:32:11.770 ⇒ 00:32:16.849 Uttam Kumaran: and we can come. Do this for you, you know. So I think for the most part we haven’t had.
244 00:32:17.300 ⇒ 00:32:22.789 Uttam Kumaran: like. I think there are people in the order that get threatened by us. But we get the. That’s why we go up.
245 00:32:22.990 ⇒ 00:32:23.550 Uttam Kumaran: Because.
246 00:32:23.550 ⇒ 00:32:23.960 Jody Hesch: Yeah.
247 00:32:23.960 ⇒ 00:32:29.229 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like, I want to be straight with the top on, like what I see, you know.
248 00:32:29.540 ⇒ 00:32:29.965 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
249 00:32:30.990 ⇒ 00:32:34.100 Jody Hesch: That’s fair, that’s fair, for sure.
250 00:32:35.618 ⇒ 00:32:37.639 Jody Hesch: Should we look at the next page?
251 00:32:38.739 ⇒ 00:32:43.049 Jody Hesch: I kind of skimm the content. It kind of read fine, so I didn’t get to.
252 00:32:43.050 ⇒ 00:33:05.380 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fine. Yeah. So it’s a lot mainly, just wanna like, if this would check your box. I’m like, okay, this is like a pretty detailed, because ultimately this is like what our typical project management plans turn into. So we’re trying to get more detail there. This is, of course, a very beautiful version of that which is really helpful, too, because it’s it’s it sells really well.
253 00:33:14.300 ⇒ 00:33:19.399 Jody Hesch: Is onboarding branches just a technical term from product analytics. I haven’t done much with product analytics.
254 00:33:20.379 ⇒ 00:33:21.369 Uttam Kumaran: Where is that?
255 00:33:21.740 ⇒ 00:33:22.210 Hannah Wang: Right here.
256 00:33:22.210 ⇒ 00:33:23.239 Jody Hesch: Short term goals.
257 00:33:26.261 ⇒ 00:33:28.780 Uttam Kumaran: Could you call me there? Let me go. Double check
258 00:33:28.900 ⇒ 00:33:34.269 Uttam Kumaran: onboarding branches. I might be an amplitude thing. But yeah, just call me here. I’ll confirm.
259 00:33:34.470 ⇒ 00:33:39.680 Jody Hesch: And and also something’s I don’t know quite what it’s supposed to say, says implement.
260 00:33:39.930 ⇒ 00:33:46.930 Jody Hesch: oh, implement, and qa, so Qa is a verb implement and Qa tracking for these things.
261 00:33:47.840 ⇒ 00:33:49.090 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s superb.
262 00:33:55.750 ⇒ 00:33:56.450 Jody Hesch: Okay.
263 00:34:21.230 ⇒ 00:34:22.100 Jody Hesch: Cool.
264 00:34:24.239 ⇒ 00:34:25.839 Hannah Wang: Oh, typo.
265 00:34:33.630 ⇒ 00:34:36.990 Jody Hesch: Similar. I don’t know. I’ve not really done much with product analytics. So
266 00:34:37.449 ⇒ 00:34:48.670 Jody Hesch: when I reach short term goals and long term goals, those are tied to product analytics, specific outcomes. They’re not tied to dollar bills. That may be appropriate for your intentions. I’m not sure I’m just calling out what I see.
267 00:34:48.960 ⇒ 00:34:49.659 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
268 00:34:51.320 ⇒ 00:34:59.209 Uttam Kumaran: can you put? Let me put some here, Hannah, maybe on the right. You can comment me like to think about if we wanna make these a little bit more business facing?
269 00:35:00.589 ⇒ 00:35:09.080 Uttam Kumaran: Or or instead, I make it clear that these are goals of the system like technical goals.
270 00:35:19.100 ⇒ 00:35:41.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, in the world of product analytics. This is mainly like we need events to be triggered. We need events to be configured by the front end team. We need them to be like named properly. So you can sort of look at user flows and then also enable segmentation like emails. For when people drop out of flows or emails when they hit. A certain amount of usage like those are all enabled by this type of.
271 00:35:41.880 ⇒ 00:35:42.730 Jody Hesch: Okay.
272 00:35:44.540 ⇒ 00:35:47.860 Uttam Kumaran: And then also running experiments like, you want to understand if
273 00:35:48.430 ⇒ 00:35:52.610 Uttam Kumaran: user stickiness or churn, or whatever changes based on product improvements.
274 00:35:52.940 ⇒ 00:35:55.110 Uttam Kumaran: this is the primary use case.
275 00:35:55.320 ⇒ 00:35:56.250 Jody Hesch: Yeah, cool.
276 00:37:02.210 ⇒ 00:37:08.489 Jody Hesch: dumb question. Again, because I don’t know this domain. But if I think of like sales information.
277 00:37:08.950 ⇒ 00:37:13.480 Jody Hesch: there’s things like sales amount, quantity, unit price whatever.
278 00:37:13.630 ⇒ 00:37:19.769 Jody Hesch: And you know you would model those to hit Kpis like year to date
279 00:37:20.430 ⇒ 00:37:29.649 Jody Hesch: sales year to date, discounted sales whatever. So I so where it says tracking metrics. That’s kind of how it reads to me like I’m reading event types.
280 00:37:30.640 ⇒ 00:37:44.449 Jody Hesch: But those would presumably roll into some kind of an aggregation assignment, an average something more sophisticated, I’m not sure. So it’s just a question. And it could just totally be my own ignorance. And it may not even matter. But
281 00:37:45.150 ⇒ 00:37:51.630 Jody Hesch: do people refer to events themselves as metrics? Or is there something that you want to indicate about
282 00:37:51.970 ⇒ 00:37:57.650 Jody Hesch: specific industry, wide kpis that have logic that rolls up those events.
283 00:37:58.610 ⇒ 00:38:03.649 Uttam Kumaran: No, I think you’re right here. I think, Hannah, we should change this to events.
284 00:38:04.670 ⇒ 00:38:11.319 Uttam Kumaran: So instead of metrics which changes to events. And then you’re you’re right down to the product. Analytics is
285 00:38:11.380 ⇒ 00:38:35.109 Uttam Kumaran: what will power several Kpis, but this plan is all around just implementing a great product, analytics architecture. But you’re right. I think we we should not use metrics in this context. And I do think that it’s maybe helpful to consider. And I don’t know if we have this on the right side anywhere, Hannah, but like anything around.
286 00:38:35.822 ⇒ 00:38:51.839 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we don’t have, I guess, like one thing that I’m you know, and sort of going back to my goal concept is, I’d like to have a little bit of like how this ties into the business schools somewhere. I do think that we probably have real estate in this
287 00:38:52.715 ⇒ 00:38:55.789 Uttam Kumaran: section somewhere to do that.
288 00:38:58.140 ⇒ 00:39:04.370 Uttam Kumaran: So we we start with labeling like, Hey, how is this gonna affect the business? And then we also
289 00:39:05.058 ⇒ 00:39:16.540 Uttam Kumaran: I guess, like, this is sort of what I would hope for. This like this like hypothesis section where these should be. Maybe they should have honestly, like Kpis associated with them.
290 00:39:19.800 ⇒ 00:39:24.450 Uttam Kumaran: You could have a more descriptive goal, but it should be. It should be up and down some figure.
291 00:40:02.190 ⇒ 00:40:03.299 Uttam Kumaran: I guess one
292 00:40:03.410 ⇒ 00:40:14.555 Uttam Kumaran: feedback. Hannah, is also these like stretch goals on the on the right side. I kinda think we should just ditch these.
293 00:40:16.365 ⇒ 00:40:23.464 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a goal, same with the one on the bottom. Like.
294 00:40:24.770 ⇒ 00:40:28.369 Uttam Kumaran: if it’s a goal, it’ll it should make it into something that we’re not like.
295 00:40:29.280 ⇒ 00:40:30.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
296 00:40:31.390 ⇒ 00:40:45.119 Hannah Wang: Yeah. Well, I also know Henry gave feedback on that. There’s 2 cycle plans. So over here I was. I just combined everything. And I, there’s a lot of real estate here. So yeah, but I’ll get rid of the stretch goals.
297 00:40:45.120 ⇒ 00:40:48.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay.
298 00:40:50.453 ⇒ 00:40:52.850 Jody Hesch: On the the implementation plan.
299 00:40:55.110 ⇒ 00:41:02.850 Jody Hesch: I would suggest only having a single title under the owner column, because agree
300 00:41:02.850 ⇒ 00:41:04.749 Jody Hesch: many projects that fail because there’s.
301 00:41:04.750 ⇒ 00:41:09.579 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, you’re totally right. I’m literally just dealing with this right now. Yeah.
302 00:41:09.740 ⇒ 00:41:21.369 Uttam Kumaran: one person, or I mean, I like what we do like racy diagrams. But like, that’s kind of oh, that’s kind of like, I think, Overkill, for this.
303 00:41:21.680 ⇒ 00:41:22.430 Jody Hesch: Right.
304 00:41:22.580 ⇒ 00:41:23.850 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah.
305 00:41:23.850 ⇒ 00:41:24.350 Jody Hesch: They’re
306 00:41:26.220 ⇒ 00:41:27.640 Uttam Kumaran: Other handful.
307 00:41:28.740 ⇒ 00:41:33.670 Jody Hesch: If I were to look at this, if I were looking at this as a customer, and I saw it just mentioned. Doc slash
308 00:41:36.040 ⇒ 00:41:36.670 Jody Hesch: my mind.
309 00:41:36.790 ⇒ 00:41:38.600 Jody Hesch: And it, the question would be.
310 00:41:39.300 ⇒ 00:41:44.009 Jody Hesch: are they just putting generic terms here because they don’t actually know what they’re doing? Or
311 00:41:44.250 ⇒ 00:41:52.639 Jody Hesch: do they not want to list the specific tools because they don’t want to get in trouble for using branding of software that they don’t have license to or like something like that. I don’t know.
312 00:41:52.640 ⇒ 00:41:56.969 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree with you. I literally was about to say that, too. We should just put Jira.
313 00:41:57.210 ⇒ 00:41:58.160 Hannah Wang: Yeah, okay.
314 00:41:58.160 ⇒ 00:42:00.759 Jody Hesch: Like, just put simple stuff that everybody would expect.
315 00:42:00.760 ⇒ 00:42:04.820 Uttam Kumaran: We should just put Jira analytics tool. We should put looker.
316 00:42:05.840 ⇒ 00:42:06.520 Jody Hesch: Yeah.
317 00:42:06.750 ⇒ 00:42:16.460 Uttam Kumaran: My product Js back end. That’s fine. If we have one.
318 00:42:17.790 ⇒ 00:42:22.439 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, like, I guess it doesn’t have to be like even the Tvd. I’m kind of like
319 00:42:22.910 ⇒ 00:42:24.861 Uttam Kumaran: it doesn’t have to be so real.
320 00:42:25.140 ⇒ 00:42:28.170 Uttam Kumaran: you know. You don’t want. Tbd, man, yeah, it’s all mine.
321 00:42:28.580 ⇒ 00:42:30.405 Uttam Kumaran: Tag me. I’ll put something here.
322 00:42:33.504 ⇒ 00:42:41.099 Uttam Kumaran: They’re like, Oh, is this like a? This is like a real thing. Okay, cool.
323 00:42:41.100 ⇒ 00:42:43.280 Jody Hesch: Where you put the names of tools
324 00:42:43.660 ⇒ 00:42:48.429 Jody Hesch: you might want to throw in. The little Logos have it in real life, but it looks good.
325 00:42:48.874 ⇒ 00:42:50.649 Uttam Kumaran: No. No. Yeah, yeah.
326 00:42:50.650 ⇒ 00:42:54.859 Jody Hesch: And then on the status column. You could do, you know, Gray, for not.
327 00:42:54.860 ⇒ 00:43:02.259 Uttam Kumaran: Chips, or whatever. Yeah. Same thing. What? How do you feel about the put us putting hours on stuff on the right side.
328 00:43:06.090 ⇒ 00:43:09.209 Jody Hesch: Recycle planning. Yeah, I think it’s fine.
329 00:43:10.860 ⇒ 00:43:13.490 Jody Hesch: I mean, if it’s realistic, I have no idea. But I mean.
330 00:43:13.490 ⇒ 00:43:16.540 Uttam Kumaran: It’s it’s realistic. I just yeah, I
331 00:43:16.930 ⇒ 00:43:20.019 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s very transparent with things like that.
332 00:43:20.594 ⇒ 00:43:31.579 Uttam Kumaran: I feel like, typically, I was to think about generic consulting. Co, they’d just be like, we have to do these 5 things. This looks like pretty dense, you know.
333 00:43:32.130 ⇒ 00:43:37.959 Jody Hesch: Yeah, am. I required engineering work?
334 00:43:43.529 ⇒ 00:43:49.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I guess, like, how is this any different than the implementation? Is that what you’re gonna say?
335 00:43:52.910 ⇒ 00:43:58.500 Jody Hesch: I don’t know for me. I’m just looking at it. I I would probably just collapse title and description down.
336 00:43:59.900 ⇒ 00:44:01.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, okay.
337 00:44:01.640 ⇒ 00:44:07.910 Jody Hesch: And then I would might remove the effort column or.
338 00:44:09.180 ⇒ 00:44:12.070 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, effort is sort of in the hours.
339 00:44:12.070 ⇒ 00:44:15.709 Jody Hesch: The way that I think about it is priority is your output.
340 00:44:16.510 ⇒ 00:44:18.360 Jody Hesch: Your input is
341 00:44:18.920 ⇒ 00:44:25.459 Jody Hesch: how soon is something needed and how big is the impact, because the highest impact soonest required should be your immediate priority.
342 00:44:26.400 ⇒ 00:44:30.359 Jody Hesch: So maybe those columns could use some rework. There’s a few ways you could do it, but.
343 00:44:30.790 ⇒ 00:44:34.334 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe tag me here. And I can give you that. Yeah.
344 00:44:50.070 ⇒ 00:44:56.610 Jody Hesch: Would say I, the context is a bit confusing. So this document is titled product analytics, strategy.
345 00:44:56.880 ⇒ 00:45:02.230 Jody Hesch: And on this last slide there’s sample tickets.
346 00:45:03.160 ⇒ 00:45:05.499 Jody Hesch: But as part of the same content.
347 00:45:06.300 ⇒ 00:45:19.770 Jody Hesch: there’s reminders for kickoff week. So it just feels a little jarring, because what’s my context here is this, before something kicks off, or is this when I’m deep in the middle of it? And I think you’re trying to convey both. And I think conveying both is fine
348 00:45:20.220 ⇒ 00:45:33.489 Jody Hesch: if they’re more visually decoupled. I guess it depends on what you’re trying to convey here. But reminders for kickoff week only matters before you kick anything off and sample tickets only matters way after you’ve kicked things off.
349 00:45:35.390 ⇒ 00:45:36.640 Jody Hesch: If that makes sense.
350 00:45:36.640 ⇒ 00:45:43.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I like, I think, Hannah, you can tag me. I have some notes. I think we probably will end up with something like
351 00:45:45.840 ⇒ 00:45:49.840 Uttam Kumaran: approvals or something around like, how do we know this is done?
352 00:45:50.990 ⇒ 00:45:56.870 Uttam Kumaran: That’s probably what I more want to convey here. I can think about it, or we’ll ditch this any.
353 00:46:03.340 ⇒ 00:46:11.799 Jody Hesch: And then I guess, Hannah, you already mentioned. Another colleague pointed out that cycle plan was listed twice. Obviously stretch goals are also in there twice. The content is
354 00:46:12.880 ⇒ 00:46:16.890 Jody Hesch: different under stretch goals. But I’m not sure just staring at this. What the difference is.
355 00:46:19.400 ⇒ 00:46:26.640 Hannah Wang: I think it was just AI. I just copy pasted. But yeah, we’re gonna get rid of this section and kinda combine everything.
356 00:46:27.000 ⇒ 00:46:28.630 Hannah Wang: Yeah, cool. No worries.
357 00:46:30.990 ⇒ 00:46:36.510 Jody Hesch: Would you use black and white photos or color photos on brain Forge team? There at the end.
358 00:46:37.787 ⇒ 00:46:51.319 Hannah Wang: Yeah, I mean, I go back and forth. We’ve been doing black and white, because that’s kind of like our palette and theme. But I do like color photos for team members. So I might change that. But in the past we’ve just done black and white.
359 00:46:51.850 ⇒ 00:46:55.269 Jody Hesch: Yeah, I assume you have.
360 00:46:56.010 ⇒ 00:47:01.860 Jody Hesch: Well, I don’t assume anything when you push these out to clients and you have actual, real live team members. Do you have them?
361 00:47:02.840 ⇒ 00:47:10.550 Jody Hesch: Do you have like professional head shots with a similar whatever? They’re wearing business, casual, or whatever.
362 00:47:10.780 ⇒ 00:47:14.030 Uttam Kumaran: Not consistent but headshots.
363 00:47:16.090 ⇒ 00:47:19.646 Uttam Kumaran: I we need. I need to get everyone to go to
364 00:47:20.140 ⇒ 00:47:23.758 Uttam Kumaran: got it. Go to Kinko’s or got a Cvs. Or something soon.
365 00:47:24.444 ⇒ 00:47:24.830 Uttam Kumaran: One.
366 00:47:25.250 ⇒ 00:47:32.160 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, they always look good, but they’re it’s like too uncan. It’s like too uncanny like, I can tell. And if I can tell them.
367 00:47:32.160 ⇒ 00:47:32.660 Jody Hesch: Yeah.
368 00:47:36.821 ⇒ 00:47:40.678 Uttam Kumaran: but these are all folks actually on our team. So these aren’t like, fake people.
369 00:47:41.573 ⇒ 00:47:42.659 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah.
370 00:47:44.130 ⇒ 00:47:46.190 Jody Hesch: Sweet, that’s all I got for this.
371 00:47:47.410 ⇒ 00:47:56.610 Hannah Wang: Cool. No, we have. Oh, 13 min left. I don’t know how long the talk about referral partners.
372 00:47:56.610 ⇒ 00:48:05.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe we can. Yeah, maybe I could just mention that. And then we have. You can just get somebody else. But yeah, Joe. I just wanted to get your like
373 00:48:06.430 ⇒ 00:48:12.640 Uttam Kumaran: gut feeling on like some sort of referral agreement, or something that we could set up, you know. Kind of thinking beyond.
374 00:48:12.800 ⇒ 00:48:17.549 Uttam Kumaran: hey? Just like, Send us stuff, and we’ll give you a cut like we wanna actually have a
375 00:48:17.630 ⇒ 00:48:40.889 Uttam Kumaran: sort of support system internally. So we have you in a slack with us. We can share you all our active clients. Of course, any of our sales assets. We want you to have access to for all of our partners we have sort of a vision of starting some sort of like monthly or quarterly partner communication to share services or things like that. Additionally, if you’re going after
376 00:48:40.890 ⇒ 00:48:56.600 Uttam Kumaran: a lead, or if you have someone and you need help. With that we have like different sort of motions. And like AI related solutions around attacking that that we can assist with, but overall for me. This is just like I want to
377 00:48:57.030 ⇒ 00:49:05.399 Uttam Kumaran: reward. Folks that are, you know, are in a position to drive business to us. To drive it to us versus others. Second, is like, I I want
378 00:49:05.500 ⇒ 00:49:29.800 Uttam Kumaran: to give you give to folks that it’d be. It just grow more than like a hey? Just let me know if you know anyone interested to like something that we can actually run and and invest in and it’s it’s it’s 1 of our channels that we’re really focused on growing this quarter. I think we’ve we’ve made a lot of like friends of Brainforge. And I wanna find a way to exchange a favor and something win-win
379 00:49:29.880 ⇒ 00:49:35.709 Uttam Kumaran: what they’re able to refer business to, especially people who are in the field talking to a lot of folks.
380 00:49:35.710 ⇒ 00:49:42.919 Jody Hesch: Or anything I don’t. I’ve never really like set up a form one before, so whatever you have in mind, I mean, I’d be pretty open
381 00:49:44.500 ⇒ 00:49:46.080 Jody Hesch: in terms of like what I’m
382 00:49:47.820 ⇒ 00:49:58.805 Jody Hesch: fit in, like all I’ve ever done as a freelance consultant is, get my work through my network. So I’m constantly just trying to build my network and have warm connections.
383 00:49:59.730 ⇒ 00:50:00.910 Jody Hesch: and
384 00:50:01.010 ⇒ 00:50:12.112 Jody Hesch: just depending on how those conversations go would be happy to plug you guys wherever it makes sense, because I’m not trying to be a bigger shop. So if folks need that horsepower, have no problem sending them your way.
385 00:50:13.140 ⇒ 00:50:14.790 Jody Hesch: yeah, like, I’m all for it, man.
386 00:50:15.660 ⇒ 00:50:35.050 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, awesome then. And I think we’ll consider the same thing we’re doing for Brian contact of ours. And yeah, we don’t want it to be so heavy touch. But we wanna make sure that we’re top of mind, and that we can get you any of these assets. So it makes it super easy, for once you’re able to make an intro or something. You have whatever you need to do that.
387 00:50:35.050 ⇒ 00:50:48.680 Uttam Kumaran: So you know, if you’re like, hey, would you guys work with a client in this industry, or whatever anyone I can mention, that’s sort of things we try to enable. And then, yeah, just sort of like. Look. I know you have a lot of folks in the Rolodex want us to be number one, because we can give you a cut so.
388 00:50:48.680 ⇒ 00:50:49.520 Jody Hesch: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
389 00:50:49.520 ⇒ 00:51:14.446 Uttam Kumaran: That’s also my hope. And so yes, and some of these, you know, I think, any of these deals we wanna make lucrative because we there is a cost for us to go get these folks and our sales team to go do that. And so as many of these sort of channels that we can have going and then, and also just like you’ve been a huge friend to the business overall, even in just helping with this sort of stuff. And overall our our strategy. So
390 00:51:15.240 ⇒ 00:51:16.399 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, that’d be great.
391 00:51:16.690 ⇒ 00:51:19.990 Jody Hesch: Yeah, cool man, that sounds good. Yeah.
392 00:51:19.990 ⇒ 00:51:28.920 Jody Hesch: Tag me anytime. I mean, I’m you know. I’m responsive. So happy to happy to help on the lead front, the affiliate front. And then, yeah, if there’s anything else I can do, tag me.
393 00:51:28.920 ⇒ 00:51:29.490 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.
394 00:51:30.160 ⇒ 00:51:31.260 Jody Hesch: You know where to find me.
395 00:51:31.410 ⇒ 00:51:32.175 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
396 00:51:33.975 ⇒ 00:51:46.164 Uttam Kumaran: you’re much more. You’re one of the folks that like, if you text me, I’m like, I can’t send a half fake response, and you’ll immediately get back to me. So I have to like, be like, am I in a zone where I can talk.
397 00:51:46.500 ⇒ 00:51:50.009 Jody Hesch: No worries, never any rush. I’ll call you if I need something quickly.
398 00:51:50.190 ⇒ 00:51:55.809 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay, cool. So I think, yeah, Hannah, maybe let’s let’s plan on that. We can circle back
399 00:51:56.532 ⇒ 00:52:20.519 Uttam Kumaran: on this next step like that. And then again, I think we’ll probably maybe we just have the one thing, even as we share our assets with you. Probably the only other thing is, I’d love to get your feedback on our case. Study format. One of our data case studies. That’ll probably be the last thing we can send it. Yeah, alright, yeah. Maybe we could just go. You want to go through it really quickly. Now, we can.
400 00:52:20.520 ⇒ 00:52:22.030 Hannah Wang: Yeah, there’s 9 min.
401 00:52:22.030 ⇒ 00:52:22.370 Uttam Kumaran: Greg.
402 00:52:22.370 ⇒ 00:52:28.779 Hannah Wang: So one of our data case studies is that stack Blitz.
403 00:52:29.180 ⇒ 00:52:30.799 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, that place should be fine.
404 00:52:33.257 ⇒ 00:52:48.490 Hannah Wang: So yeah, this is just like a 1 pager case study that we’re trying to push out and we always try to crank out more of these. So happy to get your feedback on how this looks. If it’s impactful or not. Etc.
405 00:54:47.540 ⇒ 00:54:49.682 Jody Hesch: Cool. I like the page.
406 00:54:50.770 ⇒ 00:54:57.419 Jody Hesch: the title is how stack Blitz hit hyper growth goals with on demand data experts.
407 00:54:58.000 ⇒ 00:55:04.840 Jody Hesch: So my brain is thinking, okay, hyper growth goals. What’s a goal related to hyper growth. And as I read
408 00:55:05.200 ⇒ 00:55:09.950 Jody Hesch: like, especially the results section, so there’s time saved.
409 00:55:10.600 ⇒ 00:55:13.420 Jody Hesch: And there’s adoption.
410 00:55:13.590 ⇒ 00:55:19.030 Jody Hesch: Those are the metrics under that results, pane. But those don’t really relate to growth.
411 00:55:19.530 ⇒ 00:55:25.880 Jody Hesch: Like to me, a growth goal is like revenue growth, headcount growth, adoption growth. You know, metrics like that.
412 00:55:26.250 ⇒ 00:55:28.460 Jody Hesch: So just a thought. I don’t know which piece.
413 00:55:28.680 ⇒ 00:55:38.631 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe tag me these they have like really great metrics on like evaluation and and revenue that we can at least put one here.
414 00:55:42.172 ⇒ 00:55:44.430 Jody Hesch: Just a visual thing on the top.
415 00:55:44.740 ⇒ 00:55:47.029 Jody Hesch: where it says at a glance.
416 00:55:47.650 ⇒ 00:55:55.779 Jody Hesch: and underneath project type, it says, Gtm. Analytics enablement. It just bleeds over a little bit.
417 00:55:56.530 ⇒ 00:55:58.430 Jody Hesch: It’s into the next visual column.
418 00:55:59.920 ⇒ 00:56:04.049 Jody Hesch: Also you have go to market hyphenated and capitalized.
419 00:56:04.180 ⇒ 00:56:09.959 Jody Hesch: Then you have Gtm analytics as an acronym, and then, in the results, pane, you have go to Market
420 00:56:10.120 ⇒ 00:56:11.710 Jody Hesch: lowercase.
421 00:56:13.530 ⇒ 00:56:14.025 Hannah Wang: Oh!
422 00:56:14.520 ⇒ 00:56:32.669 Jody Hesch: I’m I’m comfortable enough with Gtm. As an acronym, but I think it’s fine. Also spelling it out. I would just be consistent, and obviously is. If you if you stick with, go to market, then put Gtm. In parentheses, so that right below it, once people see Gtm analytics enablement, they have that reference.
423 00:56:33.860 ⇒ 00:56:38.066 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, maybe I think. And I probably opt for us spelling it out.
424 00:56:38.390 ⇒ 00:56:39.080 Hannah Wang: Okay.
425 00:56:44.710 ⇒ 00:57:01.392 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna Hannah. We’re gonna say, if I find some small things like this because we’re so in this world that, like these acronyms like for us are super easy. But like even Ide, like in context, I would.
426 00:57:02.000 ⇒ 00:57:04.389 Uttam Kumaran: I would probably. Yeah.
427 00:57:06.799 ⇒ 00:57:11.950 Jody Hesch: Under solution. It says stripe and postgres, unification and snowflake. So just
428 00:57:12.080 ⇒ 00:57:17.129 Jody Hesch: being the nerd that I am, stripe is a source of data. But postgres is a database.
429 00:57:17.750 ⇒ 00:57:23.789 Jody Hesch: So I don’t really know what’s being said there, and instead of unification, I might use integration or harmonization.
430 00:57:25.940 ⇒ 00:57:29.859 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And then Hannah, for this one, you can just say, stripe in
431 00:57:30.310 ⇒ 00:57:36.610 Uttam Kumaran: product data, or basically like product usage data. Or.
432 00:57:38.260 ⇒ 00:57:41.800 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, we can think about this.
433 00:57:49.180 ⇒ 00:57:53.780 Jody Hesch: Also just a small detail, but it says the new analytics stack became the go to tool.
434 00:57:54.490 ⇒ 00:57:56.309 Jody Hesch: It feels a little.
435 00:57:57.040 ⇒ 00:57:59.179 Jody Hesch: I wouldn’t call a stack, a tool, but
436 00:58:00.160 ⇒ 00:58:04.210 Jody Hesch: not a big, not like a huge thing, but just worth thinking about
437 00:58:07.700 ⇒ 00:58:13.749 Jody Hesch: again. It’s like we’ve talked about again right? There’s a whole stack, and that matters, and it’s worth talking about.
438 00:58:14.560 ⇒ 00:58:16.659 Jody Hesch: But then there’s the actual like
439 00:58:18.000 ⇒ 00:58:26.420 Jody Hesch: contribution to revenue metrics, the actual business facing outcomes. So there’s the business outcomes. And then there’s the technical minutia of the data stack.
440 00:58:26.780 ⇒ 00:58:29.340 Jody Hesch: Both are, for sure, relevant to your audience.
441 00:58:31.320 ⇒ 00:58:35.609 Jody Hesch: But it’s, you know, related to what I was saying about the title versus the metrics.
442 00:58:36.394 ⇒ 00:58:38.639 Jody Hesch: Trying to think of messaging of.
443 00:58:39.670 ⇒ 00:58:48.119 Jody Hesch: Do you want somebody to take away business outcomes? Or do you want to take away technical sophistication. And what you guys can deliver, or both, and and maybe both is fine.
444 00:58:49.576 ⇒ 00:58:52.340 Jody Hesch: I’m just kind of riffing here.
445 00:58:54.540 ⇒ 00:58:55.100 Hannah Wang: Yeah.
446 00:58:56.110 ⇒ 00:58:58.739 Jody Hesch: Otherwise looks good, though I like the layout and everything.
447 00:59:01.670 ⇒ 00:59:09.880 Hannah Wang: Cool good that you like the layout, because every case study looks like that. It’s good that you like the layout.
448 00:59:09.880 ⇒ 00:59:11.449 Jody Hesch: Rock star team.
449 00:59:13.610 ⇒ 00:59:27.572 Uttam Kumaran: That was well, yeah, that was my addition. My face is not on all these, I promise you, and and it’s not entirely we just put. I just tried to sprinkle different people on different things.
450 00:59:28.500 ⇒ 00:59:29.250 Jody Hesch: Come on, man.
451 00:59:29.250 ⇒ 00:59:30.520 Hannah Wang: Oh, awesome!
452 00:59:30.730 ⇒ 00:59:34.099 Uttam Kumaran: Well, thank you so much for the time. Dude. Appreciate it. Yeah.
453 00:59:34.100 ⇒ 00:59:48.870 Jody Hesch: Where, where she’s got some different tools that you don’t really need. Where are you at like? Just give me some context on bigger picture like you need to staff people today, or just in terms of your strategy, you would benefit from having options.
454 00:59:48.870 ⇒ 01:00:09.459 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think we’re so we’re, I think we’re one. We’re 1. 1 problem for us is just redundancy on every major role. So we are sourcing for right now, like, I’m kind of a tech lead on AI stuff. So we’re sourcing someone there. We have. We have a tech lead on. We have a tech lead and engineering manager on data.
455 01:00:09.460 ⇒ 01:00:22.139 Uttam Kumaran: on data. But only me and one person are capable of doing data engineering work. So we’re looking for like a junior level mid level data engineer, I would say on the analyst side, we’re really looking for someone that’s like kind of a
456 01:00:22.270 ⇒ 01:00:44.850 Uttam Kumaran: rock star on just dashboarding. I think it’s a task that not all business analysts have the capability of. So it’s sometimes hard to find, just like an analyst. A lot of folks will say we don’t. I don’t want to do dashboards, or I don’t know they’re like it’s just such a broad term. So we’re also looking for just strong dashboarding, focused folks. Given that. That’s commonly one of our
457 01:00:45.090 ⇒ 01:01:09.838 Uttam Kumaran: one of our outputs. But the other piece we we’ve also gotten into sort of doing customer data platforms and product analytics. So we do. We do implement amplitude, mixed panel and have some customers on segment as well. So we just brought in someone part time who can help lead some of those sort of engagements, but lead many implementation of those and then that gets outputted as part of our our data work.
458 01:01:10.270 ⇒ 01:01:16.116 Uttam Kumaran: so I’m I’m also talking to Austin. I think later this week. So we’re catching up.
459 01:01:17.736 ⇒ 01:01:25.680 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, so I’m I’m it’s it’s a little bit all over the place. I would say we’re not. We’re not nearly as much of a in a jam spot as like when we needed James.
460 01:01:27.180 ⇒ 01:01:28.830 Uttam Kumaran: But kind of always on the lookout.
461 01:01:29.020 ⇒ 01:01:31.670 Jody Hesch: Yeah, but in terms in terms of resourcing.
462 01:01:32.220 ⇒ 01:01:38.550 Jody Hesch: And you know your revenue targets and costs and all that stuff and offshore talented
463 01:01:38.830 ⇒ 01:01:42.830 Jody Hesch: dashboarding consultant in Ukraine would suit your needs.
464 01:01:43.490 ⇒ 01:01:44.490 Uttam Kumaran: That’s correct. Yeah.
465 01:01:44.490 ⇒ 01:01:46.340 Jody Hesch: Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay.
466 01:01:47.210 ⇒ 01:01:53.622 Uttam Kumaran: Because for the for the core delivery folks we have like for our project managers, we’re gonna source here.
467 01:01:54.940 ⇒ 01:01:59.112 Uttam Kumaran: But for the actual data folks. It’s kind of wherever
468 01:01:59.820 ⇒ 01:02:09.839 Uttam Kumaran: I think probably the only problem with offshore is just time zone. But for the most part it’s fine. We are. We are now able to get higher, some higher rates. And so we’re gonna start looking onshore for more like
469 01:02:10.060 ⇒ 01:02:22.610 Uttam Kumaran: tech leads and like project managers. Really, folks that I want to have a really great holistic understanding of like how some of these businesses operate, and but for for talent, Junior mid level on the data side.
470 01:02:22.790 ⇒ 01:02:25.639 Uttam Kumaran: Even on the AI side, we’re open to anything.
471 01:02:25.780 ⇒ 01:02:37.845 Jody Hesch: Yeah, cool. I’m glad you’re connected with Austin. I tried to place in months ago on something that fell through and then Opportunity Healthcare company. So I’m starting to do more staffing. I may actually.
472 01:02:38.190 ⇒ 01:02:40.420 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Great.
473 01:02:40.783 ⇒ 01:02:43.326 Jody Hesch: Like I’m tired of actual consulting man.
474 01:02:43.971 ⇒ 01:02:49.040 Uttam Kumaran: No, I know you’ve you’ve been around the Horn a couple of times. So yeah, I feel you.
475 01:02:49.040 ⇒ 01:02:49.360 Jody Hesch: Tired.
476 01:02:49.360 ⇒ 01:03:15.649 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not easy. No, but like look, that’s ultimately even brain forge. I describe us. We’re at the at the asymptote. We’re a broker. Great talent for great problems. It just depends on how much of that we want to eat. And is it worth our margin like we’re considering for some clients like, hey? If I can Rev. Share with an agency that wants to come under us and take on some part of work that’s better than me having to hire
477 01:03:15.740 ⇒ 01:03:44.889 Uttam Kumaran: like, do all that right? So we’re considering those models. And I think over time, I think we I want us to go after the stuff that we have a higher margin, and we have some competitive advantage versus just like any project. Look, if we source the lead and we own it, then it doesn’t necessarily mean we have to execute 100 of it. I’d rather do splits. But in your model it’s basically like fully in that direction. But you can still make it if you, if you have the cache to go, find those leads and get that, then that’s a
478 01:03:45.210 ⇒ 01:03:51.140 Uttam Kumaran: much like lower asset, or like whatever lower bandwidth, or whatever way of handling you know.
479 01:03:51.140 ⇒ 01:04:09.380 Jody Hesch: Yeah, I’m still debating, but I have a sub on my project. I have, Austin. I’m looking at a couple of fall through. I’m looking at a few things, so I’m like, should I just go full bore on this? So I’m still debating that, but often seems like a super good dude. He’s like he’s like young, motivated. He wants to be successful. He’s been laid off. He’s sitting on the bench. And I’m like, Okay, I need to help this kid out because he’s
480 01:04:09.380 ⇒ 01:04:09.990 Jody Hesch: yeah.
481 01:04:09.990 ⇒ 01:04:14.869 Jody Hesch: He’s he’s a hustler, and and he’s good. So hopefully, there’s opportunities for you to.
482 01:04:14.920 ⇒ 01:04:16.309 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, perfect. I appreciate it.
483 01:04:16.810 ⇒ 01:04:19.590 Jody Hesch: Yeah, someday we’ll have to get a beer and figure out what you’re doing.
484 01:04:19.918 ⇒ 01:04:21.230 Uttam Kumaran: Of course, of course.
485 01:04:21.230 ⇒ 01:04:24.730 Jody Hesch: Looking to get acquired someday, or there’s bigger picture stuff that we’ll talk about.
486 01:04:24.730 ⇒ 01:04:29.284 Uttam Kumaran: Of course I would love to. I’ll buy you the beer, I promise. Yeah.
487 01:04:29.610 ⇒ 01:04:31.469 Jody Hesch: Might have some thoughts for you there, that could be interesting.
488 01:04:31.740 ⇒ 01:04:41.729 Uttam Kumaran: I will. We do have some. Yeah, we should. I have, like, we have a couple of different, big, bigger picture things we’re thinking about so yeah, I’ll I’ll we’ll have to do that definitely.
489 01:04:41.730 ⇒ 01:04:46.309 Jody Hesch: Yeah. And then how much do you hit your wagon to specific technology? And you know all that stuff.
490 01:04:46.310 ⇒ 01:04:47.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah.
491 01:04:48.150 ⇒ 01:04:48.590 Jody Hesch: Cool man.
492 01:04:48.990 ⇒ 01:04:52.040 Jody Hesch: Okay, well, thank you. Appreciate it. We’ll get back to you with a couple of things.
493 01:04:52.040 ⇒ 01:04:53.540 Jody Hesch: hey? Thanks for the Msa.
494 01:04:54.750 ⇒ 01:04:56.100 Jody Hesch: That was for the project.
495 01:04:56.453 ⇒ 01:04:57.160 Uttam Kumaran: Of course.
496 01:04:57.160 ⇒ 01:05:05.809 Jody Hesch: I ended up just 5 contracting, so I haven’t used it yet. But I I that was for the health, the the client. They’re the one that I’m placing Austin on.
497 01:05:05.820 ⇒ 01:05:07.039 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay. Okay. Cool.
498 01:05:07.040 ⇒ 01:05:12.750 Jody Hesch: It’s a big healthcare company, and I’m gonna try to now that I’m in there as a vendor. I’m gonna try to get the lay of the land. So that’s an example.
499 01:05:13.234 ⇒ 01:05:13.719 Uttam Kumaran: Like.
500 01:05:13.720 ⇒ 01:05:17.630 Jody Hesch: Hey? If they have huge data needs, I could pass them your way. I don’t know what they need, but I’ll let you.
501 01:05:17.630 ⇒ 01:05:25.999 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And if you, if you need any other contracts, let me know we spent. We spent a bunch of money on getting those done. They’re all approved. Lawyer approved. So.
502 01:05:26.270 ⇒ 01:05:26.690 Jody Hesch: Perfect.
503 01:05:27.266 ⇒ 01:05:29.570 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Cool. Thank you.
504 01:05:29.570 ⇒ 01:05:30.029 Hannah Wang: See you bye.
505 01:05:30.030 ⇒ 01:05:30.620 Uttam Kumaran: Bye.