Meeting Title: Brainforge x Alina Collaboration Discussion Date: 2025-07-22 Meeting participants: Alina, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:51.380 ⇒ 00:00:56.887 Alina: Hey? I’m here. I’m so sorry I had to go. Tell my son to put the TV a little bit lower.
2 00:01:01.780 ⇒ 00:01:02.950 Alina: Can you hear me. Okay.
3 00:01:12.480 ⇒ 00:01:15.190 Alina: I can see you, but I can’t hear you.
4 00:01:18.170 ⇒ 00:01:21.078 Alina: There you are awesome, hey?
5 00:01:21.660 ⇒ 00:01:22.410 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like.
6 00:01:22.410 ⇒ 00:01:23.669 Alina: Technical difficulties with that.
7 00:01:23.670 ⇒ 00:01:25.855 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, sure.
8 00:01:26.996 ⇒ 00:01:28.150 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?
9 00:01:28.150 ⇒ 00:01:29.566 Alina: Doing good. How are you.
10 00:01:30.030 ⇒ 00:01:34.700 Uttam Kumaran: Good. I’m just trying to get some sunshine today.
11 00:01:35.110 ⇒ 00:01:36.889 Alina: Are you in, Austin? Where are you? It looks nice.
12 00:01:36.890 ⇒ 00:01:44.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m in Austin. I’m in Springdale like on Springdale, and like airport.
13 00:01:44.040 ⇒ 00:01:45.849 Alina: At your offices? Or are you just out.
14 00:01:45.850 ⇒ 00:01:48.630 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, no, I live. I live just like up the road.
15 00:01:48.990 ⇒ 00:01:49.650 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice!
16 00:01:49.650 ⇒ 00:01:54.356 Uttam Kumaran: So I just get out of the house and come here in the afternoons, usually.
17 00:01:54.670 ⇒ 00:01:55.310 Alina: Very nice.
18 00:01:55.310 ⇒ 00:01:57.620 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, how about you?
19 00:01:57.620 ⇒ 00:01:59.480 Alina: Yeah, I’m I’m in San. Well.
20 00:02:00.130 ⇒ 00:02:01.496 Uttam Kumaran: I’m in Austin as as
21 00:02:01.770 ⇒ 00:02:06.489 Alina: It’s close to being central as I could without being too crazy. I’m I’m up.
22 00:02:06.490 ⇒ 00:02:11.970 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay. Great. How’s how’s everything going like, how’s the year going.
23 00:02:12.757 ⇒ 00:02:33.080 Alina: It’s it’s been very different. So I think I I kind of met you at the fireside chat like back in April. It was more like a Hello! I know you were like presenting with Lori and everything. And I just actually left my consulting job. I worked at public consulting job work, public consulting group for like 13 and a half years.
24 00:02:33.625 ⇒ 00:02:34.170 Alina: Wow!
25 00:02:34.170 ⇒ 00:03:00.710 Alina: And I just, I gotten sort of up through the ranks. Got to like an associate management position. And just the job became much more about just bringing in revenue, as you know. Obviously it’s super important. But I. My heart’s more in sort of the the day to day of project management, making things happen for clients, for like people internally, whatever and after being there 13 and a half years. I was like, I I gotta do something different.
26 00:03:00.710 ⇒ 00:03:10.970 Uttam Kumaran: That’s interesting. So like they’re they, I don’t. I get like it’s I mean, I get it. But sales is like completely like we. I don’t have our project managers selling like it’s hard.
27 00:03:13.050 ⇒ 00:03:14.649 Uttam Kumaran: I’m curious about the process.
28 00:03:14.650 ⇒ 00:03:39.630 Alina: Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is, I did a lot of everything, and so I came in as a consultant, and I’m going. I know you asked me. I’m like going everywhere, but consultants in the education practice area. And so I started managing Ed tech projects for them. Doing like special Ed management systems? We have, like Rti, so a lot of paperwork. We had just acquired a company called D 2
29 00:03:39.630 ⇒ 00:03:51.130 Alina: that did online assess online assessments. And so my job was kind of figure out Pcg and figure out how to kind of integrate them into what we were doing. And so I.
30 00:03:51.570 ⇒ 00:04:18.740 Alina: And when I worked at Texas Education Agency 5 years before that, and I did a lot of processes and procedures for them. But we had at the time we’re doing monitoring for school districts, and we were having them go to a website to identify their stage of intervention and then figure out their documents. They’d have to download them. And then they would email the documents to Dea. And so I helped to revamp the process. And at that time, because I knew all the policies and procedures.
31 00:04:19.091 ⇒ 00:04:27.199 Alina: They decided they wanted to create a a web based system to facilitate that monitoring process. So I worked with 2 developers for like 3 years.
32 00:04:27.620 ⇒ 00:04:28.000 Uttam Kumaran: Was like.
33 00:04:28.000 ⇒ 00:04:31.569 Alina: And so that’s kind of how I got into sort of
34 00:04:31.730 ⇒ 00:04:49.760 Alina: this middle world of like being a business analyst and understanding requirements and sort of translating that not not, you know, just from a use case scenario but then also just like managing the heck out of whatever needed to happen. So it was just like I’ve always worked in these little like mini developer shops as like.
35 00:04:49.760 ⇒ 00:04:50.569 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36 00:04:50.570 ⇒ 00:05:00.250 Alina: Pm. The Pm. On the everything. And then I work with like the technical team. And so when I moved over to Pcg, I started managing these Ed tech projects and then
37 00:05:00.320 ⇒ 00:05:13.229 Alina: back in like 2014, when Edx just came out and common core standards were coming out. My boss was like, Hey, we wanna we wanna create this new online learning platform and we’re gonna sell it.
38 00:05:13.230 ⇒ 00:05:35.359 Alina: And so my job basically became to like, be this, me to identify the requirements. We took Edx and did an extension of it, and then added, You know, chats, and added all this other tracking for like teachers and for professional learning. And so I just became this person that really like got this business line off the ground. And I did everything I figured out how to do the help.
39 00:05:35.360 ⇒ 00:05:38.130 Uttam Kumaran: Almost like the GM, basically at that point. Yeah.
40 00:05:38.130 ⇒ 00:06:07.270 Alina: Basically. And so I ended up, you know, working with the developers on the design and the in the user interface. And like all of it, of like, what does this new system have to be? And then testing it? And then, once it was up and running was like, Okay, now, how do we actually make this happen with like school districts and departments of Ed, so like the whole client implementation side of it. So I figured out all the processes, all the project management side, all the templates, like, you know, we ended up working with content partners because we were also selling.
41 00:06:07.300 ⇒ 00:06:15.660 Alina: We have the platform that you could use if you were a district, and you wanted to create your own Pd, but we’re also selling Pd courses from like West End, Smithsonian. And so.
42 00:06:15.660 ⇒ 00:06:16.149 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, makes sense.
43 00:06:16.150 ⇒ 00:06:32.479 Alina: I became this one. Everything person, and I also had to do Rfps and like do request for proposals and sell. And so that was always like I was a project manager. But I really became this business line lead, really doing everything.
44 00:06:32.480 ⇒ 00:06:47.539 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no. What you’re describing is like, if I were to hire like a head of a practice like one business line, right? We have a couple of different service lines. You’re basically doing almost everything except for like recruiting and finance legal.
45 00:06:47.750 ⇒ 00:06:57.804 Uttam Kumaran: But you’re you are starting to get into sales or like kind of like, at least in into some part of the sales thing that’s definitely much more expansive than what just like even.
46 00:06:58.100 ⇒ 00:06:58.790 Alina: Kind of.
47 00:06:59.042 ⇒ 00:07:01.310 Uttam Kumaran: Practice, or something would cover, you know, for sure.
48 00:07:01.310 ⇒ 00:07:23.670 Alina: Yeah, so that’s I did that. And then I got that off the ground and worked there for several years. And I ended up being 8 years in the education practice area. And then I sort of hit kind of the top of like, okay, I’ve got this whole thing off the ground. And anyway, ended up. Not kind of having the best work situation in terms of kind of a toxic environment. I’ll I’ll just be honest about that.
49 00:07:23.670 ⇒ 00:07:24.840 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Okay.
50 00:07:24.840 ⇒ 00:07:25.430 Alina: And
51 00:07:26.140 ⇒ 00:07:38.730 Alina: I ended up, we have. Pcg had, like several practice areas. So health was another one. I knew everybody in Austin, and so I ended up moving over to health, and I saw some of what you all are doing. And so there’s a little bit of overlap.
52 00:07:38.800 ⇒ 00:08:05.380 Alina: I went into the team that worked with fire and ambulance departments doing cost reporting. So it’s kind of like analyzing all their financial data, dispatch data. To really figure out how much money they were going to get reimbursed for the Federal Government, for for taking Medicaid patients to the hospital. So I learned that whole thing and started to basically lead a team that was doing cost reporting. And at the same time our clients were saying like, Hey, you already help us out with our
53 00:08:05.380 ⇒ 00:08:28.020 Alina: finance and all our cost reports. Can you also help us with our operations? And so you know, things like, how do I basically doing studies, operational studies? Where should I put my next fire station? How should we set up our dispatching? You know? How do we do our how do we make sure we’re doing a good job of recruiting and retaining our staff. And so they had hired a retired fire Chief
54 00:08:28.110 ⇒ 00:08:42.470 Alina: and I had learned I’d started to learn everything about Ems cost reporting. But because I had also set up this business line in education, I basically was tasked with, like, Hey, set up this business. New business line from the ground up
55 00:08:42.570 ⇒ 00:08:44.130 Alina: with public safety.
56 00:08:44.130 ⇒ 00:08:48.509 Uttam Kumaran: You’re you’re jamming yourself by being too good at your job. You know, this is what happens.
57 00:08:48.850 ⇒ 00:08:54.299 Uttam Kumaran: Like everywhere I work. It’s just like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, take that. Take that. Keep going like, take that on.
58 00:08:54.300 ⇒ 00:09:16.409 Alina: So, yeah, I mean, so I literally learned, like everything about public safety. I partnered up with this fire chief again. I operationalized the whole thing. How do you do true operations consulting? Did you know we had to go after our 1st project? So I did Rfps and won my 1st Rfp. We actually did a dispatch equity study for the city of Austin. Back in 2020.
59 00:09:16.410 ⇒ 00:09:17.550 Uttam Kumaran: Wow! That’s great.
60 00:09:17.550 ⇒ 00:09:37.600 Alina: That was only like a year into me, having learned all of this about public safety. And so 5 years later, I ended up, you know, being the head of the Public safety, consulting, I had 3 former and retired fire chiefs directly reporting to me. I had 2 operations staff that were doing like the actual sort of implementation side of things.
61 00:09:37.670 ⇒ 00:09:53.920 Alina: We tried to kind of split it up, letting this means be the sneeze and then project project. Managers were, like everything else, just running the project. Anything that’s like data analytics that we could take off their hands or just kind of the data processing so they can then really like, analyze the meaning and the impact
62 00:09:54.180 ⇒ 00:10:18.929 Alina: and so that that’s kind of where I ended up. And then I’m like, you know, I got promoted to an associate manager level, which is a pretty senior role. And of course it’s about growing your business line, right? So it’s like, okay. Now that we got this going, we really have to figure out how to expand. And it’s obviously a really tough, tough place to be right with firing Ms departments, already losing, funding with Cms. Changing the rules all the time on like what counts and doesn’t count as a transport.
63 00:10:18.930 ⇒ 00:10:21.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, even recently, yeah, yeah.
64 00:10:21.420 ⇒ 00:10:50.600 Alina: And obviously I saw that you all do some, some work with telehealth data. So it just I just got to the point where I was like. I’m not doing the things that I love. You know I love solving problems. I love making stuff work better. I love some some of the the in between of like, Hey, you know, what’s the people side of it? And what’s really the system? What does the system need to do to like. Really, it works effectively and efficiently, and it’s doing what it what it does. My heart was also in education. And so.
65 00:10:50.690 ⇒ 00:11:10.499 Alina: anyway, which is one of those things was like and looking for work as a full time job, as you probably already know. And so I I just had to jump off the train to just do something different and new. So I’m I’m in the middle right now. It’s it’s been about 5 months. It was nice. I took a break. I mean, I’d been working, you know, 20 plus years as a professional.
66 00:11:12.800 ⇒ 00:11:25.826 Alina: My mom was like having, you know, surgery. And so I took some time to be care of her. And now I’m sort of just really back trying to figure it out. I actually set up my own consulting firm like a month ago.
67 00:11:26.110 ⇒ 00:11:26.880 Uttam Kumaran: Great congrats.
68 00:11:26.880 ⇒ 00:11:29.390 Alina: I have any plans yet, but I also saw like this
69 00:11:29.390 ⇒ 00:11:39.150 Alina: that you know I saw one of your postings was maybe like contracts. So I’m I’m open. I I also just wanted to talk to you just to learn more. I know I’ve been talking the whole time, but that that’s like the summary
70 00:11:39.150 ⇒ 00:11:40.560 Alina: perfect
71 00:11:40.787 ⇒ 00:11:53.779 Alina: but I also just wanted to learn more about you all like, you know, if it’s not me, I have some other folks. I’m still in touch with a lot of folks that are in the tech space. And so, anyway, I just thought it’d be good to connect, no matter what? So a thank you for.
72 00:11:54.960 ⇒ 00:12:09.700 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, thank you, and thank you for going through that. I mean, I I feel like, you know, my background is actually like in not consulting at all. I worked as a data engineer. I then moved on to quickly, like leading data teams. And then I led product.
73 00:12:10.007 ⇒ 00:12:25.999 Uttam Kumaran: You know, at a data startup but I hired consultants before. And I left that last job I had. It was sort of okay. I give myself 3 months to sort of figure it out, and I had done some consulting, you know, on a part, time basis in between jobs.
74 00:12:26.020 ⇒ 00:12:35.246 Uttam Kumaran: And I was, I’m opinionated about how we do engineering work. So I was like, Okay, let me see if I can go get some clients. And I started the business completely on my own
75 00:12:35.510 ⇒ 00:12:59.279 Uttam Kumaran: you know, sitting actually like over there at this coffee shop like 2 years ago. So it’s it’s been a complete like bootstrapped business. We it was just me balancing a couple of clients doing, you know, data, modeling data, warehouse work, ingestion analytics. And then slowly hired by slowly, I mean, very slowly, and then more recently, more rapidly, as we’ve been growing.
76 00:12:59.280 ⇒ 00:13:08.230 Uttam Kumaran: And then really, I think the kind of spin on our company. And what I think we have something differentiated is, I’ve been using AI to build a business the whole time.
77 00:13:08.410 ⇒ 00:13:14.929 Uttam Kumaran: And so when it came to like realizing that, hey, I’m I’m actually started hiring people just to help work with me
78 00:13:15.010 ⇒ 00:13:35.449 Uttam Kumaran: to come to use AI in our business. I realized, like, Oh, we should actually just go offer this as a service. You know. And so we now, in the past 7 or 8 months, or actually almost close to like 9 or 10 months we’ve been bringing on AI, you know, engagements where we’re implementing AI agents and workflows
79 00:13:35.450 ⇒ 00:13:45.099 Uttam Kumaran: language models. In addition to a lot of the work that we do on the data side. And we’re about 15 people strong right now, sort of completely remote
80 00:13:45.398 ⇒ 00:14:13.390 Uttam Kumaran: but scattered both across the Us. And and around the world. It’s a it’s a kind of a I would say, very relaxed business in terms of like there’s not. I worked in a lot of crazy startups before, and a lot of toxic places. And this is like the complete opposite of that. I’m very opinionated about like how we treat our team, especially how we treat engineers. But what I’m not. What I’m also opinionated on is that we have to be the best, and that the work that we deliver for folks
81 00:14:13.430 ⇒ 00:14:31.060 Uttam Kumaran: has to compete with like the Big 4. And so when people ask me like who our competitors are like. I just point to the top consultancies. I don’t look sort of at other people at our level for inspiration. Right? I’m looking at like accenture Deloitte, ey, pwc. For who I want to compete.
82 00:14:31.750 ⇒ 00:14:56.619 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to build our business, you know, looking at them. And so things have been growing a lot more recently, and I think compared to where we were even just last year, we finally have like a Pmo and we have one project manager team. We have staff across marketing sales. And of course we have. We have. We have engineers across both AI and data. And yeah, I think we’re. I’m also this whole process sort of challenging.
83 00:14:56.650 ⇒ 00:15:16.130 Uttam Kumaran: like hiring people, for, like very specific roles. I don’t know. In my all my jobs I think I was probably paid for to do a specific role in that they didn’t pay me as much as I was probably doing. But I also have worked similarly to. I just find myself in whatever crevice is open, and I like to learn.
84 00:15:16.130 ⇒ 00:15:38.929 Uttam Kumaran: And so in our company, like we, we offer that as like an ability for people to then not only help with project management, but maybe help with operations, or more like, okay, our strategy. We have marketers that are also helping with some AI development and for me it’s a joy. Because, like, I want to maximize everybody’s brain but also we can ideally do this with less people and do this with stronger people.
85 00:15:39.287 ⇒ 00:15:55.890 Uttam Kumaran: So I think part of like, you know, I’m trying to challenge what it takes to run what’s typically a very boring, like well structured business. As a consultancy like, I’ve read a lot of books on how to run these and very hierarchical, very like scaling linearly. The headcount scales linearly with revenue.
86 00:15:55.890 ⇒ 00:16:18.360 Uttam Kumaran: which is not a great. There’s no like scale in that business. Right? So for me, AI allows an opportunity to sort of start to limit that. But also I’m looking for people that have seen what a business like this is like when it’s winning, but also knows what’s wrong in in running those, whether it’s the culture, whether it’s the way we execute with clients or the pace
87 00:16:18.731 ⇒ 00:16:42.130 Uttam Kumaran: and those are all things that we compete on right like I I don’t. I wouldn’t say we compete necessarily on price, although we are, I would say, fairly priced compared to like the people I mentioned before. But we compete on like our due diligence, and we do. And when we develop solutions which totally compete on empathy on the problem and like our ability to communicate. And we compete on our innovation right? Like the data work that we do.
88 00:16:42.220 ⇒ 00:17:07.049 Uttam Kumaran: It’s the stuff that I was doing internally at many companies for a number of years the same stuff. And we’ve not done this 30 or 40 times in the data side. We have great partnerships with amazing vendors. But we’re also agnostic, like we don’t take kickbacks from anybody. I made that a point so that I can just still go in and find the best software tools implement. And then on the AI side, it’s completely just being the 1st to the pitch right? There’s not many people that have
89 00:17:07.200 ⇒ 00:17:24.560 Uttam Kumaran: both run a business for 2 years using AI and figuring it out, but also like, I empathize with a lot of our clients and like, Hey, I know AI is here. We have a working committee internally in our company, but like we just don’t have a partner, and that’s why they called me, you know. And so
90 00:17:25.034 ⇒ 00:17:40.519 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s a great place for for data. You know, we talk about capabilities. Our data capabilities are very traditional. And we do bi reporting data warehousing across a variety of businesses, all mainly focused on revenue growth, like partnering with companies that are
91 00:17:40.520 ⇒ 00:18:00.059 Uttam Kumaran: typically between 20 to 100 million in revenue half product market fit. So these aren’t like startups. And we’re slowly sort of growing. And then the AI piece. We’re kind of getting sort of all over the place, but that’s been the funding about like, how do we establish these? And then the last piece is like this is a growing business. So
92 00:18:00.100 ⇒ 00:18:27.159 Uttam Kumaran: I would say, like one of the things that I always tell. The team is like, I have very little ego, or tried to have very little ego in this business like I never thought I was, gonna be an entrepreneur or start a company like this. Frankly, it’s been a lot harder than I thought, and if I knew it was this hard, I’m not sure whether I would have done it, but it’s been more of a joy because of our team and our clients, and at the end of the day Brain Forge is just a broker between those
93 00:18:27.160 ⇒ 00:18:43.169 Uttam Kumaran: like we have to get the most talented people and give them the hardest problems. I can’t keep the most talented people if I don’t give them the hardest problems, and if we’re not solving the hardest problems, and there’s no money to be made. And so that’s those are kind of the things that a little bit about us, and sort of how I think about our business.
94 00:18:43.290 ⇒ 00:18:59.029 Alina: I’m so interested, like one from lots of perspectives. Obviously the the project manager, the the job, the opportunity side of things. But even when I met you, and when you were talking about how you’re using AI internally. You know now that I’m not at Pcg, like.
95 00:18:59.090 ⇒ 00:19:27.729 Alina: you know, Pcg. Was a competitor of like Deloitte in some ways. But and I and I got to like, you know, a pretty high level management position kind of being behind the curtains. And this this AI thing thing like this? AI, that you’re talking about in terms of helping companies. Sort of figure it out. It is such. You already know this. But now that I’m out of Pcg, I realize how much I didn’t know. So I’ve been taking, like all the AI project management courses from the.
96 00:19:27.730 ⇒ 00:19:28.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Great.
97 00:19:28.160 ⇒ 00:19:51.359 Alina: Pmi. I’m sure you can give me a billion other, even better resources to take. But, like you know, 1st of all, it is so interesting to see how some consulting firms are ahead of the curve, and how some are not. And Pcg. Was one of those that was so so far behind that even when all this came out what I mean, the general public like in November, right somewhere around there I was on the AI,
98 00:19:51.730 ⇒ 00:20:00.019 Alina: and like we were talking about like using a chat bot to like, you know, answer like customer problems like it was so not anything
99 00:20:02.780 ⇒ 00:20:23.880 Alina: and like, but like there was no training, and, on the other hand, I had a 70 some year old Fire chief, who was directly reporting to me, and we were doing Rfps, and he was using AI to like draft rfps. Nothing wrong with that. I’m all for like creativity. Get ideas. But he didn’t do the most important part of using AI, which was the human side of it.
100 00:20:23.880 ⇒ 00:20:25.930 Uttam Kumaran: Just give it enough. Yeah, give it.
101 00:20:25.930 ⇒ 00:20:31.369 Alina: They were just giving me these like Rfp. Responses. That made no freaking sense, but it was also
102 00:20:31.550 ⇒ 00:20:58.880 Alina: no one had trained him right like, if you take any basic AI course, it was really about like, here’s how you should use it effectively. And here’s how you should have that that human, you know, review. And and so I think that it’s like leadership doesn’t even know where to start like I shared those courses with my leadership from like just like this past week, and I just got like, Oh, thanks so much. And I’m like, here you are. 6 months later, and I talked to a friend of mine who’s still there. She’s she’s an associate manager, and she goes.
103 00:20:59.040 ⇒ 00:21:03.560 Alina: They’re releasing copilot. I mean, this is, gonna be like such an example for you, which I’m sure you’ve heard plenty.
104 00:21:03.560 ⇒ 00:21:04.609 Uttam Kumaran: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
105 00:21:04.610 ⇒ 00:21:07.059 Alina: So they’re releasing copilot.
106 00:21:07.240 ⇒ 00:21:15.839 Alina: But they’re only doing it. We have to select who we want to get it for, because it’s $30 a user, and they don’t want to spend the money. And I’m like.
107 00:21:15.990 ⇒ 00:21:26.789 Alina: you understand that, like my billable rate as an Am. Would have been like 360 bucks even higher for some of our most senior leadership. 500, whatever it is
108 00:21:27.180 ⇒ 00:21:30.950 Alina: and like, and even to for Junior level staff, a bill rate of like
109 00:21:31.490 ⇒ 00:21:34.689 Alina: or whatever you’re like, $30 is gonna save you so much.
110 00:21:34.690 ⇒ 00:21:40.019 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, in one year. It’s gonna be like, they’re gonna make a comedy about like some of these committees, because
111 00:21:40.060 ⇒ 00:21:49.649 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, you know, like 2 years ago, it was obvious. Now it’s even more obvious. But this is where it’s like, it’s the opportunity, right? And so in my business.
112 00:21:49.650 ⇒ 00:22:17.282 Uttam Kumaran: like. The only reason I get get into is because I have constraint like I cannot. I don’t have funding. I cannot do this business without the AI. It just won’t work like I can’t pay my people fairly and try to grow the rate we want to grow without it. So it’s forced us to adopt it. Similarly, though, like, we’re using it in every single way, humanly possible that I can make it happen with the time that we have, we’re using it for drafting project charters, drafting
113 00:22:17.590 ⇒ 00:22:41.200 Uttam Kumaran: rfps, we’re using it like my sales team is using it to draft. Follow up so very basic stuff. We’re also using it. Where for our client meetings we record a lot of those meetings. Well, all those get stored in a brain porch platform, and anyone on those that team can go and see the past meetings, chat with the meeting, get out project notes, get out! Follow ups, get out like any like. And so you know, it’s just because, like I,
114 00:22:41.280 ⇒ 00:22:54.420 Uttam Kumaran: we’ve now been investing in it for like 6 months. But investing in is like I’m using my team’s part time hours. And I’m the project manager for that. This like initiative. By the way, I’m using my team’s part time hours to develop this.
115 00:22:54.420 ⇒ 00:23:20.209 Uttam Kumaran: And you know, this is what people. Now, I think when I go meet, like senior people at Ui or people in this industry, they’re like dude. Nobody is thinking about things way. And you’re exactly right is that’s our opportunity. When we go to clients, though it’s actually so. It’s so gratifying because I explain the same thing to them because they come to me in the same position. Hey, we’re thinking about releasing copilot or like we released it. But like nobody’s using it, or people are using it wrong.
116 00:23:20.210 ⇒ 00:23:37.680 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like, you guys have a perfect opportunity to stand out in your industry, and I don’t pitch it as like, go in and use it and fire everybody I’m like, look, can you? Do you have another path to finding 20 to 40% efficiency in your business? If not, this is a great opportunity for you to explore. A couple of things
117 00:23:37.680 ⇒ 00:23:55.879 Uttam Kumaran: like a lot of companies are dealing with tariffs. A lot of companies are dealing with tough hiring. Though it’s not clear where the next innovation is gonna come from. For many companies. You know, there is business model innovation. But for a lot of the private businesses that we work for. They’re not like the apples and things like that. They’re like.
118 00:23:55.880 ⇒ 00:24:08.319 Uttam Kumaran: they’re, you know, just trying to either release new products quicker. But it’s a lot of internal turmoil that’s leading to. Basically, they’re just paying people to shuffle documents around when a lot of that can get streamlined. And I’m like
119 00:24:08.350 ⇒ 00:24:22.540 Uttam Kumaran: this is, you’re in a perfect spot to eclipse your competitors, and the fact that they come to us. And they’re like this. And but this is where we go to the CEO, right? Because you need someone like me at the top who is like, I force everybody to you. I’m like so annoying
120 00:24:22.540 ⇒ 00:24:38.869 Uttam Kumaran: with it, you know, and and it’s it’s in my company, though adoption is hard, you know, like even in my AI company. People are not using it that often because they’re just not used to it. And so we’ve developed tactics and ways just in my company on, how do we get people oriented around it? And so when we go to a company, explain it.
121 00:24:39.010 ⇒ 00:24:48.289 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just like talking from like what I tried to do, you know? And it’s like, very it’s like people get it. And they they’re starting to sort of work with us on projects.
122 00:24:49.050 ⇒ 00:25:06.289 Alina: Well what I’m so what I did, I mean I’d love to also just get any other resources or things like right now that I’m not in the middle of you know. That’s the other. Irony, too, is that I was part of this AI committee. I didn’t get any. I mean, I I could have been much more proactive to say, Hey, I want training, or whatever. But I was also managing a full.
123 00:25:06.290 ⇒ 00:25:08.960 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, that’s the that’s the trouble of a committee, right? No.
124 00:25:08.960 ⇒ 00:25:09.340 Alina: Bye.
125 00:25:09.340 ⇒ 00:25:11.530 Uttam Kumaran: You gotta have a head of the committee or something.
126 00:25:11.530 ⇒ 00:25:36.210 Alina: And I’m like no one. No one’s like, Hey, we’re going to give you 2 HA week to do training right like you need to be able to have that time and space to just learn it. And so I actually. So I’m trying to take advantage of that right now. So if you have any resources, any other thing that you’re like, hey, this is amazing. Send it my way. But the other thing I’m I’m doing is actually pursuing my change management certification, because, like you said, you know, it is such a hard transition
127 00:25:36.990 ⇒ 00:26:04.729 Alina: people to adopt it. So I actually, I have my, I’ve had my Pmp since like 2015 but I I had to get my 20. I’m doing the change management, professional certification from the Association of change management professionals. And yeah, it’s kind of like you’re a pmp, but I don’t. I don’t know how much you know about it, but you have to have like 21 h of you know. Of Pd, and then 4,200, I think, of practitioner hours. So I applied and got approved. So I’m gonna cram. I’m taking my.
128 00:26:04.920 ⇒ 00:26:05.800 Uttam Kumaran: Museum in August.
129 00:26:05.800 ⇒ 00:26:07.420 Uttam Kumaran: Awesome. Yeah.
130 00:26:07.420 ⇒ 00:26:29.230 Alina: Because I see this is all like so relatable, you know. And people, you know, even when you’re implementing technology or whatever it’s like, at least in the experience that I’ve had. It’s always like, let’s go run it, just do it. And it’s like people don’t understand that investing upfront to really figure out, how do you communicate this stuff? And how do you set it up? Definitely sets you up for success in the long term
131 00:26:29.270 ⇒ 00:26:42.549 Alina: what the barriers are to adopted to change, and everybody reacts to it differently, and what they see the benefits and don’t see. So anyway, finally, was like, you know what I’ve been talking about change management forever. Like, I’m just, I’m just gonna do it.
132 00:26:42.550 ⇒ 00:26:58.809 Uttam Kumaran: There’s an art to that. And and you know, even for our clients, it’s more about the people, and and also the reason why I think we have a leg up is because we’re a data company. Whenever we release AI stuff, we measure everything. So I know who’s using it. What are they using it? For? Like everything so typical? AI consultancies they’re like.
133 00:26:58.810 ⇒ 00:27:15.460 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, here, get it! Here’s an AI agent, and like use it. And it’s kind of dead on arrival. Or you kind of buy like an AI agent software, nobody’s managing it. Nobody knows how to measure it. So partly the data work is helping us prove our value. And for all of our AI initiatives we have to do the things like
134 00:27:15.640 ⇒ 00:27:43.310 Uttam Kumaran: I won’t. We won’t not do that because I don’t know how else to prove whether this is working or not, and you know longer term, you know, even in our business I’m trying to even challenge, like the hourly pricing on a lot of stuff. You know, this conversation I’m having with some other people that are like ex consultants, just about like, how does things change when cause we use AI now, and even our delivery? And if things take faster, I’m kind of getting dinged for like not we’re not billing the hours.
135 00:27:43.310 ⇒ 00:27:47.960 Alina: Right cause you’re like, Oh, my! You know my hours are less compared to like the other vendors.
136 00:27:47.960 ⇒ 00:27:48.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s.
137 00:27:48.480 ⇒ 00:27:52.410 Alina: Competing, because you know this way to be more efficient.
138 00:27:52.600 ⇒ 00:28:12.149 Uttam Kumaran: And there is some, you know, price sort of, you know, competition we can do. But also, I think, like we will, we’re starting to move towards something that’s more outcome, based like trying to find out like, Hey, if we have a really clear project plan, and we hit these milestones, and these are the these are the sort of receivables of that point versus like a
139 00:28:12.260 ⇒ 00:28:37.660 Uttam Kumaran: broad basket of hours. I think we’re seeing some interest in that in the mid market, I think, at the Enterprise level. They’re just used to getting sold like an hourly thing. So but again, this is the fun that I have, which is like, I’ll just try and see if people are open to it. And I tell them, Look, I want to be more outcome, driven, because if we achieve the outcome, what’s it worth to you like? Why do you care how long it took us to get there?
140 00:28:37.660 ⇒ 00:28:38.250 Alina: Right, right, right.
141 00:28:38.534 ⇒ 00:29:03.830 Uttam Kumaran: And if I can offer discounts or offer a better strategy that way, so like, for example, we, one of our clients, is ABC home here in Austin, and we develop AI agents for them. And we signed a model where it’s based on the usage of the agents that we develop. So almost like you’re buying like a phone plan where we gave them a basket of interactions with the agent and ideally like as their adoption grows. We both agreed that, like more adoption, this tool
142 00:29:04.200 ⇒ 00:29:23.569 Uttam Kumaran: and it’s a very specific use case means that people are using it, and people are getting the benefit. Then, as they use it more, we’ll get paid more, and it was pretty fair. Yes, I took the hit on that like I may put in a lot of hours upfront, and our average billable rate may be lower. But as we grow I don’t think we’re going to be putting more hours. It’s more of like a product adoption.
143 00:29:24.650 ⇒ 00:29:25.119 Alina: Hopefully, it does.
144 00:29:25.120 ⇒ 00:29:25.470 Uttam Kumaran: See that!
145 00:29:25.470 ⇒ 00:29:25.859 Alina: I love it.
146 00:29:25.860 ⇒ 00:29:27.419 Alina: Yeah. Well, I was gonna say.
147 00:29:27.420 ⇒ 00:29:29.350 Alina: interesting thing about that, too, though, is like.
148 00:29:29.860 ⇒ 00:29:52.500 Alina: and this, you know, from a from a customer. You’re like, Okay, well, there’s an incentive, because you do want more people to use it now at the same time. Obviously, that means, if if more of my staff is using it. It means I’m paying you more. But what I should be seeing is more efficiency, right? A reduction in time and energy that it takes me and my staff to answer those questions so hopefully. They.
149 00:29:52.500 ⇒ 00:29:54.880 Uttam Kumaran: Ideally, we have a Kpi right? So, for you know.
150 00:29:54.880 ⇒ 00:30:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: we have a key, Kpi, about what are those conversations? Those are linked typically to customer service. So I’m able to look at is the average whole time going down. Our customers are solutions going up. So there are these like second derivative metrics. But again, that was like something unique where I was like, if I price it on hours, I I don’t know. I don’t think they’re gonna buy for. But also, I think we’re gonna be stuck like, there’s no way I can go up. Because actually, we’re probably gonna spend less time over time building this.
151 00:30:20.220 ⇒ 00:30:27.950 Uttam Kumaran: and they were open to sort of some sort of okay, let’s talk about it. And I was like, Look, I think this is fair, because you guys know, for every interaction with this, you’re getting benefits.
152 00:30:28.546 ⇒ 00:30:33.409 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s the fun that I get to have in like thinking about these new business models.
153 00:30:33.914 ⇒ 00:31:01.400 Uttam Kumaran: I think to be honest, where we’re like struggling right now is just in like trying to get people that have sort of done this or been like part. I’ve been a couple of steps ahead of us to take us to that next level like again. We were just me for a while, and then a couple of people. Now we’re about 50 people we haven’t. We’re sort of establishing a Pmo. But we only have one project manager right now, like sales is doing well. But it leads to the next problem, which is like we have to deliver all this work.
154 00:31:02.020 ⇒ 00:31:02.550 Uttam Kumaran: Well.
155 00:31:02.600 ⇒ 00:31:30.659 Uttam Kumaran: we have, we have great, we have great talent. I think we just need more investment into systems. And I think we just have now too many clients for, like, I’m doing some pm, work my business partner doing some Pm. Work. And then we have one dedicated project manager. We just need someone else to pair with her, and then sort of just rock on managing projects, whether it’s in data, whether it’s in AI. I I don’t think there’s really like a big sales component to that. But
156 00:31:30.710 ⇒ 00:31:48.329 Uttam Kumaran: again, like we’re, we’re also like we we’ve brought on like someone that’s more of a Pm. Coordinator. This is where it’s like, if I could get a Pm. Coordinator plus have them use AI. They can almost do a lot of the work for the Pm’s. And for me. I’m like, I want my Pm. To spend more time with clients not sitting in our in Jira, or whatever.
157 00:31:48.330 ⇒ 00:31:48.670 Alina: Right.
158 00:31:48.670 ⇒ 00:32:07.269 Uttam Kumaran: Sitting drafting stuff. All of which is like, yeah, maybe one of those documents takes time. But let’s say you want to start to work for 3 clients, if you. There’s no way to do that right, if you’re like having to do so much writing. And so we’ve built these AI tools to help them get them more in front of the client and actually do stuff that’s more
159 00:32:07.270 ⇒ 00:32:23.260 Uttam Kumaran: impacting on the clients. Success versus like, I have to spend 3 h of grooming tickets like we built some grooming stuff like grooming tools that we have internally, but that’s sort of the state of our world in terms of like and project management is really the next critical role we haven’t. We haven’t had issues
160 00:32:23.542 ⇒ 00:32:50.710 Uttam Kumaran: recruiting for engineering at all. I think mainly just because I’m an engineer. And so when I recruit people, I kind of give them the skinny on like what the deal is, and we’re all doing AI work. So a lot of engineers want to come work on AI. But I think we’re I’m I’m not interested in hiring like I’m trying to get people that have worked in the consulting background typically with Pmp. Certification, or others who can come in and sort of now evolve like our delivery function as a whole. You know.
161 00:32:52.310 ⇒ 00:32:58.609 Alina: Well, I’m definitely interested in in, you know. I know. I know. I don’t know how much more time you’ve got, but I’m definitely interested in continuing to explore.
162 00:32:59.790 ⇒ 00:33:02.399 Alina: If you are and I’m happy to meet you if you want me to.
163 00:33:02.400 ⇒ 00:33:03.419 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, of course, of course.
164 00:33:03.420 ⇒ 00:33:16.260 Alina: Your next coffee. You know, for full transparency. I’ve actually have had a really interesting opportunity that I’ve been working on for the past 4 months. It’s actually with the Dell, the Michael and Susan Dell, and.
165 00:33:16.260 ⇒ 00:33:17.570 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, wow! Amazing!
166 00:33:17.570 ⇒ 00:33:19.700 Alina: Yeah, it’s as I’ve been talking to them
167 00:33:19.860 ⇒ 00:33:23.860 Alina: perform ones. Now. They’ve considered me for 3 different.
168 00:33:24.410 ⇒ 00:33:43.980 Alina: This last one is actually a change management role. And so I I’ve interviewed with now, like I’ve had like 4 rounds or so right now, interviewed with their head of finance and operations so pretty much. The next step would be to for me to talk to the executive director. So I I just want to be transparent. But.
169 00:33:43.980 ⇒ 00:34:07.000 Uttam Kumaran: That’s fair. But even even in a part time, capacity, even just to have you like, help us out, or help our Pmo office, or wherever and just being like a resource. Again, this is the joy of this business is like one thing that we did. A lot is I just have built a lot of friendships through this. And I’m like, Okay, how can I get some of the people that I know are really smart, some cash, and if they can just be available for my team as experts.
170 00:34:07.448 ⇒ 00:34:11.030 Alina: I would love that I would love that. So 1st of all, I’m gonna know in the next
171 00:34:11.610 ⇒ 00:34:35.250 Alina: 4th month process. So I’m gonna know in the next, probably 2, 3 weeks. If if anything is, it’s either like I’m gonna get that job or like I don’t or like we’re at the end of the line. I’ve I’ve done my best but but if it’s you know, but if it’s not that, I’m definitely in a point where like I need something for sure it was. But you know I’ve set up 9 my consulting firm, which is great. So now I have an else
172 00:34:35.967 ⇒ 00:34:40.860 Alina: so that makes it great. So yeah, I would be more than happy to continue this conversation. Maybe
173 00:34:41.409 ⇒ 00:34:44.089 Alina: if you’re around I can come up and say, Hi, well.
174 00:34:44.615 ⇒ 00:34:49.969 Alina: I’m definitely open to part time, you know. I just wanted to be transparent, because if this does happen, I don’t want you to be like
175 00:34:49.969 ⇒ 00:34:51.419 Alina: that’s on board.
176 00:34:51.790 ⇒ 00:34:53.380 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s totally fair.
177 00:34:53.380 ⇒ 00:34:54.150 Alina: Whole, time.
178 00:34:54.150 ⇒ 00:35:20.889 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I mean for everything it’s like, look, I think, for everybody that we’ve hired to. We start small. So whatever even availability you have. I know that given your background and we’re starting to interact with some partners that are started in the same tech space as well. In fact, the company. That’s that the guy that founded a blackboard. He started a new consulting company called Talisma, and we’re starting to work with them on something. So I think there’s even some opportunities just to chat, and would love to just like.
179 00:35:21.020 ⇒ 00:35:41.150 Uttam Kumaran: have you on our just on our team to just be available. Of course you have so much background that I think our project manager could take advantage of and just are generally our whole whole developer, our whole delivery sort of team can take advantage of to get help. So even if it’s in that capacity, that would be amazing.
180 00:35:41.410 ⇒ 00:36:04.350 Alina: Sure, and we didn’t quite get to this either. But the whole telehealth, I mean, even just the knowledge on the public, on the health on even sort of some of the challenges that the Public Safety folks are having in terms of access to data and things like that on the telehealth side on the fire Ems side. Even when I was at Pcg. Just cost reporting in terms of analyzing data, categorizing it like there’s so much stuff.
181 00:36:04.350 ⇒ 00:36:24.969 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, even to get your like 2 cents on like, hey? If we want to go after a segment you’re like, Hey, there’s a wide open segment here, where they suck, because we’ll show you all the I definitely when we meet. I’ll show you all of our data capabilities like, Hey, nobody is doing this for them. And you’re a few emails away from getting in there. And like I, I, we could draft the campaign around that. And that would be amazing.
182 00:36:25.220 ⇒ 00:36:31.819 Alina: Awesome. Okay? Well, I I think that sounds great. I’m actually gonna be cramming for my change management.
183 00:36:31.820 ⇒ 00:36:34.399 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, no problem. So let’s do. After that, some point.
184 00:36:34.400 ⇒ 00:36:40.380 Alina: Through the 5.th We can, or I can like. Wherever you’re at, I can come. You know, I’m just gonna be studying so I can come.
185 00:36:41.490 ⇒ 00:36:43.170 Uttam Kumaran: I’m you. I’m usually here like.
186 00:36:43.170 ⇒ 00:36:44.060 Alina: Your work, session.
187 00:36:44.060 ⇒ 00:36:52.969 Uttam Kumaran: A week. So yeah, maybe like, I don’t know. Sometime next week or the week after whatever works for you. I’m I’m usually here in the afternoons, here and there, so happy to.
188 00:36:52.970 ⇒ 00:36:54.720 Alina: Okay. Which cop shop were you at.
189 00:36:55.217 ⇒ 00:36:56.709 Uttam Kumaran: I’m at Medici.
190 00:36:56.710 ⇒ 00:36:58.970 Alina: Medy off Springdale. Yeah.
191 00:36:58.970 ⇒ 00:37:13.310 Alina: alright. Also, I don’t think you have my cell. I’ll text. I’ll send you my cell if you wanna share yours. We can just be in touch. Yeah, I think I don’t mind like, I said, I’m just gonna be cramming. So I don’t mind heading out there to do.
192 00:37:15.260 ⇒ 00:37:19.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, I’m usually here just like furiously typing on my laptop, anyways, like, so, yeah.
193 00:37:19.810 ⇒ 00:37:21.130 Alina: Okay, yeah, that’s perfect.
194 00:37:21.130 ⇒ 00:37:38.929 Alina: Open to, you know, part time. If you want me to join some calls, give you some ideas. You know, and then I’ll I’ll know in the next 2, 3 weeks if if this doesn’t work, and then we can explore some something a little bit deeper. And then I’d love, you know, just any. I’m at this very big learning mode, you know, definitely.
195 00:37:38.930 ⇒ 00:38:03.069 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, no, totally I. We have. We have some resources. We have some resources that I typically put together. Because folks ask us all the time. So we kind of put together a little bit of list of like the tools we’re using, and like some helpful articles, it’ll be more than enough. And then, yeah, of course, anything, if you’re like, Hey, is this tool worth learning? Or is like, because we’re doing all this in production? And so there’s a lot of companies have great marketing teams, but their products suck.
196 00:38:03.150 ⇒ 00:38:31.569 Uttam Kumaran: So I’m happy to give you like the the 4 1 1 on like what’s actually working and where to actually spend some time going through their learning program or documents. You know, like, of course, Microsoft, Google, these guys are, gonna take the airwaves up. But frankly, like their their products are the worst. So there’s a lot of other companies to definitely check out that, especially if you’re they have great free plans, and I’m sure if you message them they’ll give you free credits and stuff. So we’re learning.
197 00:38:31.570 ⇒ 00:38:40.540 Alina: Yeah, awesome. No. And and I think what I could also represent for you, I mean, I think that you know it sounds like you’re already getting some clients that already know they need AI, and and.
198 00:38:40.540 ⇒ 00:38:44.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, which is great, because 7 months ago it was not in that position.
199 00:38:44.230 ⇒ 00:38:50.019 Alina: But I’m saying like there’s still a huge market of folks that kind of think they need it, but don’t know how they need it, and like.
200 00:38:50.020 ⇒ 00:38:50.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
201 00:38:50.840 ⇒ 00:38:55.779 Alina: Such an example of that that I think there’s a big education. And I know that’s a whole
202 00:38:56.080 ⇒ 00:38:58.999 Alina: area for you all because you guys are like, we just want to sell.
203 00:38:59.000 ⇒ 00:39:14.779 Uttam Kumaran: Well, we we started doing no. Well, we started doing a workshop service like where we come in. And people are like, Hey, we just need to get the right people in the room, have them argue in a more structured manner, and then leave with a couple of proof of concept like ideas. So we have a structured workshop offering around that. So
204 00:39:15.350 ⇒ 00:39:31.200 Uttam Kumaran: we have companies like that just came to me. And they’re like, Hey, we have like 10 or 4, because I’m like, Look, I don’t. I like you seem all over the place. I need to just get the regular in the room for just a couple of hours we will pre interview them. I will structure kind of like a play. Basically, that’ll get us to
205 00:39:31.210 ⇒ 00:39:46.049 Uttam Kumaran: a couple of distinct arguments, and then you’ll have me on the line, which I’ll tell you what’s feasible for, like I’ll give this sort of actual strategy, and then we’ll arrive at a couple of proof of concepts that way, and our pitch will be that you build those with us. But you can also take those and do those internally or.
206 00:39:46.050 ⇒ 00:39:46.720 Alina: Robert.
207 00:39:46.720 ⇒ 00:39:50.420 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what. So we went a little bit early, and we developed that as well.
208 00:39:50.420 ⇒ 00:40:03.629 Alina: I love it. I think people are, miss, you know, like I said, at least from the management side where I was at Pcgm. Like they weren’t even having this conversation. And I was playing around just the past couple of weeks. And I’m like, Oh, my God! I have so many use cases for the things that we were doing.
209 00:40:03.990 ⇒ 00:40:05.300 Alina: If only somebody had.
210 00:40:05.300 ⇒ 00:40:05.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
211 00:40:05.730 ⇒ 00:40:08.579 Alina: Help me look through those, you know. It’s like.
212 00:40:09.140 ⇒ 00:40:10.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
213 00:40:11.680 ⇒ 00:40:16.230 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just so overwhelming and like, I only know this because we do this day in and day out
214 00:40:16.380 ⇒ 00:40:23.910 Uttam Kumaran: for 2 years. I don’t know. That’s why I’m like I don’t even know how. I don’t know. I only know this stuff because it’s my job, you know. And
215 00:40:24.100 ⇒ 00:40:24.760 Uttam Kumaran: oh, my God!
216 00:40:24.760 ⇒ 00:40:32.359 Alina: Well, what I find interesting at PC. Is like there was nobody that I could knew was like, Hey, this is the head of sort of AI innovation like, who do I go?
217 00:40:32.360 ⇒ 00:40:33.220 Alina: Yeah.
218 00:40:33.370 ⇒ 00:40:34.010 Alina: As a manager.
219 00:40:34.010 ⇒ 00:40:41.349 Uttam Kumaran: There will. I think there will be that in like 5 years, maybe. But, like, what are we? Gonna sit around and wait? You know I’m not.
220 00:40:41.350 ⇒ 00:40:50.400 Alina: Right. And it’s like, well, we have technical teams. We have an It team like, why isn’t somebody, you know? And again, I mean, I was part of the AI committee like
221 00:40:50.860 ⇒ 00:40:52.410 Alina: nobody was talking about it.
222 00:40:52.790 ⇒ 00:40:53.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
223 00:40:53.170 ⇒ 00:41:00.750 Alina: You know. And so there’s this huge gap of like management that doesn’t understand. AI doesn’t
224 00:41:00.960 ⇒ 00:41:06.440 Alina: how to use it effectively. You’re not. You don’t have the baseline even just for your regular employees to do what?
225 00:41:06.960 ⇒ 00:41:26.869 Alina: Better and quicker. And then there’s like the much bigger opportunity of like how we’re. How can we use AI to transform some of the systems and data and some of the processes and things, you know. So that’s just, you know, from from somebody that’s now. No, Karen was barely dipping my my tow, and I’m not like
226 00:41:26.870 ⇒ 00:41:28.819 Alina: no, that’s really good to hear.
227 00:41:28.820 ⇒ 00:41:41.309 Alina: I I’m I’m that like middle ground of like, I understand a little bit of technology. But my heart is really like, where are the users? And how can we help them be more effective. And it’s like man, you know. I I
228 00:41:41.520 ⇒ 00:41:48.513 Alina: it’s so interesting now, not being there anymore to realize man, leadership is so behind.
229 00:41:48.980 ⇒ 00:42:15.879 Uttam Kumaran: Because you can’t get any buy in otherwise. Right? So. But the 1st thing I ask is, I ask people like, Are you just using chat, gpt like in your personal life. And half the time it’s like, not really. I’m like, well, you should just do that and call me because I can’t explain to you really like what the importance of it is like. Just the next time you’re cooking something, or next time you Google, something, just use it instead, and then call me back after you like. Have that moment of like holy shit. This is crazy.
230 00:42:15.880 ⇒ 00:42:16.610 Alina: I used it for my.
231 00:42:16.610 ⇒ 00:42:17.100 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
232 00:42:17.100 ⇒ 00:42:17.600 Alina: Anything else.
233 00:42:17.600 ⇒ 00:42:19.895 Uttam Kumaran: And then we have some people that are like.
234 00:42:20.150 ⇒ 00:42:32.179 Alina: 4,200 HI was like, how am I gonna document 4,200 h of change management work that I’ve done in the past 10 years, like I mean, I’ve done all kinds of things, but it’s like, How do you put it in the lens of like the Ccmp discipline.
235 00:42:32.670 ⇒ 00:42:36.209 Alina: and like it, would have taken me 3, 4 days to do it. It took me like a half a day.
236 00:42:37.210 ⇒ 00:42:38.269 Alina: you know.
237 00:42:41.790 ⇒ 00:42:50.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s perfect. It’s out of this world. It’s out of this world. Yeah, it’s hard to okay, perfect. Well, how about you? Maybe send me your number over email. And then I’m happy.
238 00:42:51.110 ⇒ 00:42:53.880 Uttam Kumaran: It’s too awesome.
239 00:42:54.800 ⇒ 00:43:02.595 Uttam Kumaran: Expect some like definitely make plan for some time in the next week or so. And yeah, we got going on and.
240 00:43:03.690 ⇒ 00:43:12.440 Alina: That sounds awesome. I know I don’t know if I’m just losing my my great Internet. But I will. I’ll shoot you my phone number, and hopefully, we can connect in person, and then.
241 00:43:12.440 ⇒ 00:43:15.840 Uttam Kumaran: It may be it may be me, it may be me.
242 00:43:16.150 ⇒ 00:43:20.149 Alina: It feels, though, like 1997.
243 00:43:20.150 ⇒ 00:43:20.510 Uttam Kumaran: Perfect.
244 00:43:20.870 ⇒ 00:43:22.270 Alina: So he started with technician.
245 00:43:22.270 ⇒ 00:43:23.709 Uttam Kumaran: You’re like you’re doing the robot.
246 00:43:25.450 ⇒ 00:43:29.400 Alina: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for making the time. It was so fun talking to you.
247 00:43:29.400 ⇒ 00:43:33.830 Alina: Thank you. And we’ll we’ll hopefully connect in the next week or 2 in person.
248 00:43:35.550 ⇒ 00:43:37.950 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.
249 00:43:38.350 ⇒ 00:43:38.880 Alina: Bye.
250 00:43:38.880 ⇒ 00:43:39.375 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.