2025-07-17_brainforge_x_ey_business_strategy_discus_4171607e

Meeting Title: Brainforge x EY Business Strategy Discussion Date: 2025-07-17 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Vincent DiPalma

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1 00:00:17.050 ⇒ 00:00:17.790 Vincent DiPalma: Hey? What’s up?

2 00:00:17.790 ⇒ 00:00:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: Hey? What’s up, man?

3 00:00:20.040 ⇒ 00:00:22.380 Vincent DiPalma: Not much. Man looks like. Are you home?

4 00:00:22.800 ⇒ 00:00:26.100 Uttam Kumaran: I am home. Yes, this is this is the Austin setup.

5 00:00:26.570 ⇒ 00:00:28.279 Uttam Kumaran: Very cool. Man looks comfy.

6 00:00:28.280 ⇒ 00:00:30.350 Uttam Kumaran: The dogs the dogs over there hard at work.

7 00:00:30.350 ⇒ 00:00:33.080 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, look at those dogs! They’re big.

8 00:00:33.080 ⇒ 00:00:34.209 Uttam Kumaran: Big dog. Yeah.

9 00:00:34.210 ⇒ 00:00:35.170 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, it was a laptop.

10 00:00:35.170 ⇒ 00:00:39.520 Uttam Kumaran: Shepherd, German shepherd, yellow lab, great Pyrenees. Mix.

11 00:00:39.520 ⇒ 00:00:41.311 Vincent DiPalma: Wow! That’s a big boy.

12 00:00:41.670 ⇒ 00:00:41.990 Uttam Kumaran: Say.

13 00:00:43.486 ⇒ 00:00:45.729 Vincent DiPalma: There he is!

14 00:00:45.730 ⇒ 00:00:47.529 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, great!

15 00:00:48.430 ⇒ 00:00:49.981 Vincent DiPalma: He’s a bulldog pit.

16 00:00:50.370 ⇒ 00:00:51.123 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, nice!

17 00:00:51.500 ⇒ 00:00:55.820 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, we’re actually dropping him off Saturday to go get trained. He’s a year and a half, and he’s just like

18 00:00:55.990 ⇒ 00:01:00.160 Vincent DiPalma: he’s not mean. But like when we’re walking down the street, he just scares people, and I don’t know.

19 00:01:00.160 ⇒ 00:01:06.829 Uttam Kumaran: This dog, too. I mean, he’s very big, and I don’t know the German shepherd right? Like they were basically bred to be a little bit like

20 00:01:07.280 ⇒ 00:01:09.459 Uttam Kumaran: fear. So it’s still some fear in you.

21 00:01:09.660 ⇒ 00:01:12.670 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, I had one growing up. It was my favorite dog. For a long time.

22 00:01:12.670 ⇒ 00:01:15.119 Uttam Kumaran: They’re amazing. They’re so smart like.

23 00:01:15.120 ⇒ 00:01:15.769 Vincent DiPalma: So smart.

24 00:01:15.770 ⇒ 00:01:17.110 Uttam Kumaran: So smart, and that’s what.

25 00:01:17.110 ⇒ 00:01:21.409 Vincent DiPalma: Loyal to a fault, I think, because, like, they’ll literally kill somebody, because if they.

26 00:01:21.410 ⇒ 00:01:39.809 Uttam Kumaran: I know that’s what my girlfriend she doesn’t like, because some I like to let her run around, and then she’s like she’s like she’s like it’s not him. But if something happens it’ll be his fault. And I’m like, Okay, but he’s very, very kind. And so I’m the same way, though I think if I had a little bit more free time I would do a lot more training, and like.

27 00:01:40.390 ⇒ 00:01:41.200 Vincent DiPalma: Damn!

28 00:01:41.200 ⇒ 00:01:46.556 Uttam Kumaran: But he’s so big that I have like literally like a military style like best on him. When I take it for a walk.

29 00:01:46.780 ⇒ 00:01:47.229 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, yeah.

30 00:01:47.230 ⇒ 00:01:53.929 Uttam Kumaran: Like I have to cause. If all his mu, he has no idea that if all his muscles activate like he will run through like a brick wall.

31 00:01:54.560 ⇒ 00:01:58.379 Uttam Kumaran: And my girlfriend, like basically does not walk him anymore because she can’t.

32 00:01:58.380 ⇒ 00:02:02.239 Vincent DiPalma: I know perfect, and walk mine either, and he and mine’s only 65 pounds. What is he like?

33 00:02:02.240 ⇒ 00:02:03.309 Uttam Kumaran: 100 and 20 pounds.

34 00:02:03.310 ⇒ 00:02:03.920 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

35 00:02:04.090 ⇒ 00:02:04.710 Uttam Kumaran: Geez!

36 00:02:04.710 ⇒ 00:02:05.830 Vincent DiPalma: Thanks man that.

37 00:02:05.830 ⇒ 00:02:06.300 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry.

38 00:02:06.300 ⇒ 00:02:09.130 Vincent DiPalma: Easy. Just a monster. You sleep in the bed, or you sleep like.

39 00:02:09.355 ⇒ 00:02:14.760 Uttam Kumaran: He gets in the vet for a sec, and then he gets hot. So he goes to the bathroom and slips on the tile

40 00:02:15.609 ⇒ 00:02:22.099 Uttam Kumaran: but he doesn’t bark, and I keep the door open. It’s really great weather here, so I keep the door open all day, and he, like

41 00:02:22.220 ⇒ 00:02:23.739 Uttam Kumaran: goes in and out of the house, and.

42 00:02:23.740 ⇒ 00:02:24.960 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, that’s great! That’s nice.

43 00:02:24.960 ⇒ 00:02:26.490 Vincent DiPalma: So it’s it’s nice. Yeah.

44 00:02:26.490 ⇒ 00:02:28.089 Vincent DiPalma: Nice man. How you been.

45 00:02:28.560 ⇒ 00:02:36.460 Uttam Kumaran: Good we’re we’re sort of getting a little bit of like a wave of business which I was always hoping for never happened. But

46 00:02:36.570 ⇒ 00:02:40.890 Uttam Kumaran: now it’s like the race to be like, how do we service some of these deals.

47 00:02:40.890 ⇒ 00:02:42.579 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah, that’s that sounds fun.

48 00:02:42.580 ⇒ 00:03:02.270 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s like one once. The nice thing is like a lot of our stuff we do on Linkedin sort of some of the events stuff. We’re doing. A lot of the work we’re doing on outbound is working. And I think our messaging is getting better. We’ve been doing a lot with like partnerships and stuff. So we’re getting people that come to us. As like Yo, I have a data problem, or I have an AI or a problem like.

49 00:03:02.500 ⇒ 00:03:04.120 Uttam Kumaran: can I get help? Perfect?

50 00:03:04.535 ⇒ 00:03:16.700 Uttam Kumaran: And then some of those we move into like a workshop, or we move into like a proof of concept. And then they sort of graduate. Now, some of those are the graduation step where I’m like, okay, do I go? I have to go either higher, very rapidly, or I have to like.

51 00:03:17.240 ⇒ 00:03:21.069 Uttam Kumaran: Bring in some subcontractor firm to like handle part of the project.

52 00:03:21.310 ⇒ 00:03:27.363 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the mode we’re in better mode than, of course, no sales, which is where we were. But

53 00:03:27.890 ⇒ 00:03:32.460 Uttam Kumaran: it’s it’s tough. So we are getting some people that are coming to us. Knowing on the AI side is like.

54 00:03:32.540 ⇒ 00:03:54.740 Uttam Kumaran: Hey we we haven’t. We either, like the CEO super motivated wants to do some AI thing, or they like have an internal committee. But they all basically land at like we have no way. We don’t know where to go. No one here is like opinion enough, I’m sure, in their company there is someone who’s like a rock star at AI. But that person has no sort of like understanding of how to enable like an organization.

55 00:03:54.820 ⇒ 00:04:10.820 Uttam Kumaran: And really, they’re just looking for like an enablement partner. Whether that’s like proof of concepts that can move into like things internal. Or that’s just giving them the idea. So we’ve we’ve had like 2 had 2 conversations, one with like an insurance like Medicare related company, one with like an industrial firm

56 00:04:10.860 ⇒ 00:04:28.009 Uttam Kumaran: where that’s exact situation they’re in where I think I’m gonna come in either in like a workshop capacity, or like some discovery, drive them towards like 2 or 3 proof of concepts. Where there’s a clear kpi like something I can measure. Second, there is like a clear owner like someone who’s like

57 00:04:28.600 ⇒ 00:04:36.840 Uttam Kumaran: literally needs this to succeed. That isn’t the CEO and then try to drive towards like, okay, let’s start working on that. And so.

58 00:04:37.090 ⇒ 00:04:37.670 Uttam Kumaran: like.

59 00:04:37.670 ⇒ 00:04:40.220 Vincent DiPalma: How are you? Gonna one thing I’ve always struggled with.

60 00:04:40.720 ⇒ 00:04:52.640 Vincent DiPalma: and I’m struggling on my own, too, because I don’t know if I told you I’m trying to start my own, not my start, my own thing, but like, do my own thing like I wanted to. I build an app. I built an app I’m trying to launch an Ios, but it’s like it’s something about like Gen. AI learning. But then I’m also.

61 00:04:52.640 ⇒ 00:04:52.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

62 00:04:52.990 ⇒ 00:04:54.790 Vincent DiPalma: Build like an agentic workflow.

63 00:04:54.790 ⇒ 00:04:55.240 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

64 00:04:55.240 ⇒ 00:04:59.599 Vincent DiPalma: Cause. I feel like when I come back to work. I’ll be able to like. Figure out how to like, you know, position that, but

65 00:05:00.030 ⇒ 00:05:12.929 Vincent DiPalma: part that like if that I struggle with when I was at Ey. But I’m on leave. Was that like, when you say, build a poc like you’re gonna invest a lot of time money, energy, just in the hopes that they’re gonna like, buy it. Are you? Gonna charge them for that? Or.

66 00:05:12.930 ⇒ 00:05:16.446 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, it’s charged! It’s all charged. Everything is charged the whole way.

67 00:05:16.740 ⇒ 00:05:17.799 Vincent DiPalma: What if it fails?

68 00:05:18.730 ⇒ 00:05:26.169 Uttam Kumaran: Like. So the but the failure modes. There’s a couple of like risks of failure. One. I don’t think there’s a risk that what they want. We can’t build.

69 00:05:26.170 ⇒ 00:05:26.770 Vincent DiPalma: Okay. Cool.

70 00:05:26.770 ⇒ 00:05:27.530 Uttam Kumaran: That’s just

71 00:05:27.630 ⇒ 00:05:36.230 Uttam Kumaran: me being technically confident, like I don’t. I? I think the stuff I do internally is actually way beyond anything that any client would ever have, like

72 00:05:36.540 ⇒ 00:05:37.709 Uttam Kumaran: the mind, even be like? Can we.

73 00:05:37.710 ⇒ 00:05:38.510 Vincent DiPalma: We do?

74 00:05:38.510 ⇒ 00:05:42.169 Uttam Kumaran: Advance like I, and and so so these are like large

75 00:05:42.290 ⇒ 00:05:45.089 Uttam Kumaran: medium to large size private companies where they’re just like

76 00:05:45.190 ⇒ 00:05:48.149 Uttam Kumaran: like one of the asks was just like, Can we get copilot to everybody?

77 00:05:48.920 ⇒ 00:05:49.300 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

78 00:05:49.300 ⇒ 00:05:55.270 Uttam Kumaran: And I’m like Dude. Well, you just flip the switch. But I also told them, like, what you’re gonna find is nobody’s gonna use it, or they’re gonna.

79 00:05:55.270 ⇒ 00:05:55.780 Vincent DiPalma: Use it.

80 00:05:55.780 ⇒ 00:06:01.789 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re gonna be like drafting my email, or they’re gonna ask you for stuff. It’s not gonna work. And then they’re gonna be like fuck this AI stuff. So.

81 00:06:01.790 ⇒ 00:06:02.200 Vincent DiPalma: Sucks.

82 00:06:02.200 ⇒ 00:06:30.469 Uttam Kumaran: I told him that I said, like you need to really think of like specific workflows that you want to attack. Yes, I think, is getting everybody onto copilot useful. Yes, I think you should run some like training on, just like when to use AI generally to like draft email. Yes, but that’s not like where the meat of this is. Gonna you need specific workflows that we attack. So yes, we’re gonna we’re gonna basically all those will be priced proof of concepts, but it’s mainly proof of concept in that. I want to indicate to them that, like

83 00:06:30.820 ⇒ 00:06:52.649 Uttam Kumaran: I want to attack something in a in a time box manner where? Yes, maybe we vibe code. Some solution may. Maybe it is like a quick integration, but it just shows promise, and it’s something we can put in front of people to gain confidence, to get budget towards delivering something more wider. But but ultimately, for me, one, the Kpi is super important. Because for all of our engagements, I want to be able to measure

84 00:06:52.962 ⇒ 00:07:07.855 Uttam Kumaran: like, okay, are we affecting, for example, if there is like a deal cycle. Okay, cool. I need to know that that’s the Kpi, and that for deal cycles where our software was used. They’re shrinking right? Like that’s the type of thing that I want to be able to prove

85 00:07:08.900 ⇒ 00:07:13.299 Uttam Kumaran: So like, I think, identifying that Kpi versus just being like cool, I’ll build you an agent.

86 00:07:13.470 ⇒ 00:07:20.679 Uttam Kumaran: and then, like sort of put it out of the ether. I think that’s what a lot of the sort of other development firms and AI are doing right now. And they’re like.

87 00:07:21.060 ⇒ 00:07:27.300 Uttam Kumaran: kind of just like Flash. They’re gonna do flashy stuff that like works. But we’ll have like no actual like proven impact.

88 00:07:27.300 ⇒ 00:07:27.680 Vincent DiPalma: -

89 00:07:27.938 ⇒ 00:07:39.560 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s like where I I can. Wow! Anybody, you know, in like a few days, whatever we produce. But my goal is like this needs to affect the Kpi, and then ultimately, like, I need to think about how to price these for now

90 00:07:40.110 ⇒ 00:07:41.740 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, like we’re

91 00:07:41.910 ⇒ 00:07:54.560 Uttam Kumaran: some companies where they just want us to be like, they’re basically audit kind of like their automation team. Then I’m like, cool. You have, we’re gonna we’re gonna we can take on like 2 work streams at a time. It’ll be like 1520, 30 KA month like.

92 00:07:54.560 ⇒ 00:07:55.050 Vincent DiPalma: Hmm.

93 00:07:55.050 ⇒ 00:08:01.369 Uttam Kumaran: That’s it, right? And then I’ll work with my Pm. Team to make sure we make the margin on that for other stuff that’s very scoped.

94 00:08:01.480 ⇒ 00:08:11.889 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where we’ll have to charge, based on like what those milestones are. And like development time, right? But for some people look, they’re they just like want us to be around.

95 00:08:12.000 ⇒ 00:08:15.310 Uttam Kumaran: and that they can start having us automate. And

96 00:08:15.420 ⇒ 00:08:28.139 Uttam Kumaran: I kind of want to. I don’t want to constrict them to a contract that is like so scoped because ultimately, like they don’t know they can’t articulate. And I can’t really articulate yet without burrowing. And what they’re like.

97 00:08:28.310 ⇒ 00:08:29.609 Vincent DiPalma: What about a retainer?

98 00:08:30.280 ⇒ 00:08:36.720 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we could do. We could do a retainer models, I mean. But this is the problem is that I don’t want to be. I don’t want to.

99 00:08:36.990 ⇒ 00:08:42.770 Uttam Kumaran: Some to develop. Some of this stuff may take time. Some of it is not gonna take that much time. So billing hourly.

100 00:08:43.090 ⇒ 00:08:48.500 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know whether, and this is like a conversation I was having with Clarence, too, is like is hourly model.

101 00:08:49.050 ⇒ 00:08:56.530 Uttam Kumaran: the way to go right. So I don’t know whether we would do hourly, because my guys can rip some of this stuff pretty quickly, and then

102 00:08:57.400 ⇒ 00:08:59.933 Uttam Kumaran: I’m dinged on what like doing it fast.

103 00:09:00.250 ⇒ 00:09:13.269 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah. Well, the thing about you, though, is like in a firm that I work in, that I’m sure you that you are familiar with is like, I can’t lie, and I’m not saying that you should lie. But I’m saying that there should be like an inherent baked in how much, how sure long should it have taken.

104 00:09:13.270 ⇒ 00:09:16.560 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, I can’t. I can’t lie. Yeah, no. 100%.

105 00:09:16.560 ⇒ 00:09:17.050 Vincent DiPalma: And my.

106 00:09:17.050 ⇒ 00:09:20.970 Uttam Kumaran: Team will definitely be logging hours if I can track their hours.

107 00:09:21.120 ⇒ 00:09:25.449 Uttam Kumaran: But the the thing is is like, I I don’t know. Necessarily

108 00:09:25.680 ⇒ 00:09:37.910 Uttam Kumaran: this is the thing that’s gonna happen is like, if you have 30 h. But you want me to go explore how to improve our project management process. That’s like an open, ended thing. Do you want to limit us? Do you want me to? Every time I find something and be like well, now you have to sign off on like an.

109 00:09:37.910 ⇒ 00:09:39.579 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, it’s pain in the ass.

110 00:09:39.580 ⇒ 00:09:50.210 Uttam Kumaran: So instead, like, I kind of want, I want to do one. I want to be very honest with like Cool. I will. Actually, I want this to win, and I will instead say cool. I want to aim for anywhere between

111 00:09:50.310 ⇒ 00:10:14.910 Uttam Kumaran: 30 like 20 to 50% margin that can fluctuate. But I I just want to know. We have a basket of budget to attack, and I just want to attack. And then, when I, when I can isolate some clear project that has milestones. I can then price it in the way in a typical sort of consulting manner, where either we price it on sprints or or some milestone based approach.

112 00:10:15.040 ⇒ 00:10:23.390 Uttam Kumaran: But like the AI stuff we’re doing is actually not that time consuming to develop. The time comes in the the

113 00:10:23.700 ⇒ 00:10:31.420 Uttam Kumaran: getting making sure we have all the right documents in the right place, making sure, like. I have the right stakeholder that can verify and do human in the loop stuff like

114 00:10:31.740 ⇒ 00:10:35.190 Uttam Kumaran: it’s a lot more on the communication and people side.

115 00:10:35.635 ⇒ 00:10:45.330 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. I’m sort of figuring I’m sort of figuring, I mean. So look in on the data side, right? We have a client where we’re their entire data team. And we just say, Hey, they have a budget for data.

116 00:10:45.670 ⇒ 00:11:10.830 Uttam Kumaran: We’re part of that budget, like some amount goes to us. And then some amount we use for tooling. And so we’re just like the whole. We’re basically the whole team, like we’re managing that budget. And any any amount we don’t spend, we get to keep. And so that’s like a particular model. What they don’t. Otherwise we would have to be a conversation anytime. We then say, like, cool, you guys need a Cdp like to measure, or you need like a product analytics thing. Okay, we need to add that to our scope. Instead, we just like

117 00:11:11.040 ⇒ 00:11:22.009 Uttam Kumaran: we just execute it. And if if we end up on. If we we start to see that it’s eating into our budget. We have a candid conversation with like, Hey, we? We dedicate a bit more time last month, but it’s eating into our amount.

118 00:11:22.220 ⇒ 00:11:31.019 Uttam Kumaran: We are either gonna pause that workflow and kick it to the backlog, or we need another X amount to, then start to add that as a parallel workshop, that’s the conversation.

119 00:11:31.020 ⇒ 00:11:35.220 Vincent DiPalma: You’re gonna have to be the one to have all these conversations still, right? Like you didn’t find anybody yet.

120 00:11:35.430 ⇒ 00:11:44.049 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, it’s yeah, it is. It is more senior. Yeah, that’s that’s exactly it is like. But that’s the kind of account exec conversations I prefer to have, and I think I’m

121 00:11:44.170 ⇒ 00:11:57.800 Uttam Kumaran: more poised to have but the managing hours, and being like Oh, do! I don’t know people who are really ambitious with their companies don’t want to do that, either. They want a partner who’s like gonna run like they’re they’re like them where they’re like, look under every rock

122 00:11:58.280 ⇒ 00:12:00.309 Uttam Kumaran: and find the opportunity.

123 00:12:00.960 ⇒ 00:12:01.410 Vincent DiPalma: -

124 00:12:01.410 ⇒ 00:12:06.619 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t want to price in a way where we have to get

125 00:12:07.590 ⇒ 00:12:11.190 Uttam Kumaran: at every time. But but then I’m eating the I’m certainly eating the risk.

126 00:12:11.510 ⇒ 00:12:15.720 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah, 100%. We had something called add and add.

127 00:12:15.720 ⇒ 00:12:17.739 Uttam Kumaran: Like, do you guys have? Yeah, I’m interested. You guys have.

128 00:12:17.740 ⇒ 00:12:24.700 Vincent DiPalma: It’s painful man I. So before, when I was in tax before I moved to technology, I asked the technology team, sorry I look like a mess. I got

129 00:12:25.830 ⇒ 00:12:45.640 Vincent DiPalma: I just realized that. So I was like, Hey, I want to join technology, this, I want to be a product manager. What do I do? A partner gave me a product, and like it was the rare. It’s so rare at the firm to do that. And she was like, Hey, like, go ahead and like, make this product real. And when you come back it was my 1st kid. When you come back from maternity leave

130 00:12:45.916 ⇒ 00:12:55.603 Vincent DiPalma: we’ll see about getting you bringing on board if it works out, and I I succeeded in it, and what it was was a scope management tool. So what it was is, let’s say that

131 00:12:55.960 ⇒ 00:13:21.359 Vincent DiPalma: You were on an engagement, and the engagement was 50 h of your time, but you charged a hundred. The the difference typically just gets written off at the firm like there was no way to capture it. There was a way, but everyone just wrote it off. So this tool, what it did is it? It took the delta of the amount that you spent on the time versus what the sow is, and it automatically sparked like a new sow that then had, like negotiated terms in it. That would say, we spend an extra amount. And this is what we did.

132 00:13:21.400 ⇒ 00:13:31.980 Vincent DiPalma: and that’s all it did is, and then we. We then sent it to the partner, and the partner would then be able to have a discussion. And that’s active right now, that’s actually built into our whole like automation workflow every time they go over whatever the set amount of the contract.

133 00:13:31.980 ⇒ 00:13:37.099 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, it spits out, and then but the negotiation is something that is still human. Right? That’s the.

134 00:13:37.100 ⇒ 00:13:37.630 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

135 00:13:37.630 ⇒ 00:13:38.090 Vincent DiPalma: And you.

136 00:13:38.090 ⇒ 00:13:51.510 Uttam Kumaran: But see, that’s the thing. I don’t wanna risk the I don’t want to do what bad consultants do, in my view, which is, oh, we’re like, that’s gonna be an extra month like, like, right when you hear the thing. Oh, we’re gonna have to sign another.

137 00:13:51.510 ⇒ 00:13:51.880 Vincent DiPalma: Right.

138 00:13:51.880 ⇒ 00:13:54.160 Uttam Kumaran: Or like that’s out of scope. I hate that shit like.

139 00:13:54.160 ⇒ 00:13:55.100 Vincent DiPalma: I hate it too.

140 00:13:55.100 ⇒ 00:14:02.880 Uttam Kumaran: I’m an engineer where I want to solve the problem. But I also need a mechanism, because once we solve the problem, I’m gonna come back.

141 00:14:03.130 ⇒ 00:14:03.660 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah.

142 00:14:03.660 ⇒ 00:14:05.239 Uttam Kumaran: Like to ask for some cash.

143 00:14:05.240 ⇒ 00:14:06.089 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah, or.

144 00:14:06.090 ⇒ 00:14:34.710 Uttam Kumaran: We’re not gonna stop. We’re gonna stop solving. And so that’s a bet on me being like. And it’s worked so far. And it’s also worked the other way where we did some more work, and they were like, look, we just can’t afford to go higher, I said, cool. Then we’re gonna expect to slow down and like I am eating some of that upfront. But then I will. I think that gives me the flexibility to do. Probably other consultancies aren’t doing where we will have to make them. Where we will have to make the margin is by just pricing higher and sort of. We have more flexibility to do those things.

145 00:14:34.710 ⇒ 00:14:35.329 Vincent DiPalma: Or that.

146 00:14:35.330 ⇒ 00:14:36.710 Uttam Kumaran: Is the art right? You know.

147 00:14:36.710 ⇒ 00:14:44.030 Vincent DiPalma: It is the the other art to this, though, too, is at the end of the day. It’s did you waste your time? In my opinion.

148 00:14:44.030 ⇒ 00:14:44.820 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

149 00:14:44.820 ⇒ 00:14:54.670 Vincent DiPalma: If you, if that extra, that delta of what you contracted to what you spent actually gave you a net new something that you can then spin to something else. Then then you didn’t waste your time, so it’s like.

150 00:14:54.670 ⇒ 00:14:55.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

151 00:14:55.080 ⇒ 00:15:02.460 Vincent DiPalma: You get the money from them. But the end of the day like, Hey, this is not your IP. This is my IP, and I’m gonna go build a project and sell this elsewhere, too, like that.

152 00:15:02.660 ⇒ 00:15:09.879 Uttam Kumaran: I think we just need some mechanism, for like escalation to someone to approve, the overage would be like worth going over.

153 00:15:09.880 ⇒ 00:15:10.910 Vincent DiPalma: A 100%, a hundred.

154 00:15:11.120 ⇒ 00:15:11.330 Uttam Kumaran: Percent.

155 00:15:11.330 ⇒ 00:15:12.310 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah versus.

156 00:15:12.310 ⇒ 00:15:17.129 Uttam Kumaran: Like it being automatic like. Oh, we shouldn’t do this. It’s out of scope. But again.

157 00:15:17.130 ⇒ 00:15:18.070 Vincent DiPalma: Stop right.

158 00:15:18.070 ⇒ 00:15:29.730 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, we can’t stop. And some of these, like, I know, I’m gonna go in there and be like the person they’re like, wow! I’ve never talked to like a technical person that’s been able to articulate this in this way.

159 00:15:29.730 ⇒ 00:15:30.400 Vincent DiPalma: Exactly.

160 00:15:30.400 ⇒ 00:15:41.449 Uttam Kumaran: I, and I don’t want that I can’t like. There’s no reason for us. This, that’s what our, that’s what we compete on, right. We don’t have anything else. That’s that’s the magic that we compete on. That gets us. The next client that gets us the referral.

161 00:15:41.450 ⇒ 00:15:56.730 Vincent DiPalma: 100%. You get that personal touch. And what what eventually has happened, at least what I see now is clients are now saying, Hey, I have Ui as my technology team. But really I have my own technology team. And then they try to either bring us on like they literally try to poach us from ui, or.

162 00:15:56.730 ⇒ 00:15:57.160 Uttam Kumaran: They use them.

163 00:15:57.160 ⇒ 00:16:02.819 Vincent DiPalma: Where it’s like a loan staff where they make sure that like. Only I am with that client only. And whenever they

164 00:16:02.820 ⇒ 00:16:03.470 Vincent DiPalma: yeah, yeah.

165 00:16:03.470 ⇒ 00:16:12.010 Vincent DiPalma: I literally would have to sit on site at their site. So I become one of them. So it’s like they try to bring your people inside. So like right now. You’re still in their mind in a 3rd party. But you’re.

166 00:16:12.010 ⇒ 00:16:18.020 Uttam Kumaran: For some of these times. They are. Yeah, they do, they do, and they do enjoy that. But this is why, even in my company.

167 00:16:18.130 ⇒ 00:16:31.040 Uttam Kumaran: The actual getting the work done is not what I find to be important, and the AI piece is is really exposing that even more because it is the articulation of like where to go and where to spend the resources, and, like.

168 00:16:31.830 ⇒ 00:16:39.000 Uttam Kumaran: And like getting the right people in the room and just facilitating a couple of like productive arguments, is like what matters.

169 00:16:39.440 ⇒ 00:16:50.582 Vincent DiPalma: And where companies fail is that they hire, in my opinion, like, let’s say you like, say, I have this need. I want to go find someone that can help me do this. You some people would hire a project manager, which to me is like the wrong thing.

170 00:16:50.810 ⇒ 00:16:59.289 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know what it is like, cause I don’t know what the role you need like a I mean, I don’t know. I just don’t know what the role is, because in our typical, probably we have like a solution architect, we have like a tech.

171 00:16:59.960 ⇒ 00:17:01.250 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s with the Pm.

172 00:17:01.480 ⇒ 00:17:19.890 Uttam Kumaran: But I sort of sometimes will hop in a meeting and just shake everything up because I’m like yo don’t do that shit at all. Go here, go call. You know how they mentioned this person. Go find out what that person cares about, and then the project, just like gets like a gas pedal. Put on it, and I’m like, what who is that’s like an account? Exec. I don’t know who’s like? Who is that?

173 00:17:19.890 ⇒ 00:17:21.690 Vincent DiPalma: But it just comes natural to you, and it’s like.

174 00:17:21.690 ⇒ 00:17:22.599 Uttam Kumaran: How did you not do it?

175 00:17:23.329 ⇒ 00:17:26.769 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because I’m like, cool. Yeah, I don’t know.

176 00:17:26.770 ⇒ 00:17:36.229 Vincent DiPalma: With experience. But I think it’s a combination like I find myself in that role, too, because I think it’s I was an analyst. I was a sales rep. I was a.

177 00:17:36.230 ⇒ 00:17:36.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

178 00:17:36.600 ⇒ 00:17:41.700 Vincent DiPalma: I was a go-to-market person. So like taking all those skills, I don’t think it’s someone out of college. You know what I mean. I think it’s someone.

179 00:17:41.700 ⇒ 00:17:46.020 Uttam Kumaran: Is this like what an Md typically is that like an Md role like, what is that.

180 00:17:46.020 ⇒ 00:17:52.620 Vincent DiPalma: I think it’s do you know what the closest one I think I found to it? Do you ever hear of a Microsoft’s customer, success manager or customer relationship manager.

181 00:17:52.620 ⇒ 00:17:55.370 Uttam Kumaran: I know, I know. Kind of Csms, yeah.

182 00:17:55.370 ⇒ 00:18:01.255 Vincent DiPalma: I know a few of them personally, and I like the really good ones that I know they have like.

183 00:18:01.840 ⇒ 00:18:13.989 Vincent DiPalma: it’s like us account executive mentality, but like an executive level, where, like I, I trust they can go anywhere. They can go sell like medical devices and like and like they can. They just have this like

184 00:18:14.180 ⇒ 00:18:23.319 Vincent DiPalma: this persona about them that, like they know, I know that they they will get the job done, and they know what’s next, no matter what it is. But they also have that. They’re likable, too. So they have.

185 00:18:23.320 ⇒ 00:18:28.739 Uttam Kumaran: Are they part of the like? I’ve worked a lot with account management functions, right? Where account management typically

186 00:18:28.900 ⇒ 00:18:31.779 Uttam Kumaran: like they’re like, get comped on like expansion.

187 00:18:31.780 ⇒ 00:18:32.840 Vincent DiPalma: Their commission.

188 00:18:32.840 ⇒ 00:18:36.054 Uttam Kumaran: Their commission based on like renewals.

189 00:18:36.590 ⇒ 00:18:38.130 Vincent DiPalma: They’re just too salesy, in my opinion.

190 00:18:38.130 ⇒ 00:18:44.659 Uttam Kumaran: They are, too sales. And they don’t know they typically are spread way too thin. And they just do Qbrs. And they’re like, yeah.

191 00:18:44.660 ⇒ 00:18:49.570 Vincent DiPalma: I hate the, in my opinion, that rolls the guy that says, Oh, yeah, we can do that, and then goes back to that.

192 00:18:50.820 ⇒ 00:19:09.039 Vincent DiPalma: Can we do that? You know what I mean? Like, I think you want someone that’s like, oh, no. I know this product like one of the things I’m dealing with right now, or I was before I left was I had this product, and it did all these things, and I knew with like the back of my hand. But then all of my team members that we call the factory, they would. They would like, promise the world all these people, and then come back, and they’d be like, All right. When can we do this? And it’s like

193 00:19:09.270 ⇒ 00:19:14.319 Vincent DiPalma: like, Why would you over promise like, you know, cause you didn’t know the product well enough to know, like how far.

194 00:19:14.320 ⇒ 00:19:16.740 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, agree, yeah.

195 00:19:16.740 ⇒ 00:19:26.780 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, you know, it’s like product, but also people. And in very rarely do you get that product person that can handle people or the engineer that can handle people. And so it’s, it’s it’s an art, I think, and it’s.

196 00:19:26.780 ⇒ 00:19:33.820 Uttam Kumaran: It’s also a spidey sense, like I like. We have much clients at this moment. I know which ones are like. I should go talk to.

197 00:19:33.820 ⇒ 00:19:34.140 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

198 00:19:34.140 ⇒ 00:19:44.470 Uttam Kumaran: And I have a I have a general gauge for like when to catch them right, but I also can’t be everywhere, so I have to put you. I have to know that someone is struggling and be like.

199 00:19:44.700 ⇒ 00:19:48.080 Uttam Kumaran: well, they’re not just. They’re not struggling the most today, you know.

200 00:19:48.080 ⇒ 00:19:49.049 Vincent DiPalma: That’s a good point. Yeah.

201 00:19:49.050 ⇒ 00:19:54.150 Uttam Kumaran: See, I don’t know. Maybe this is like a chief of staff, and then this person is also like kind of, because we are a client

202 00:19:54.150 ⇒ 00:19:56.200 Uttam Kumaran: that’s interesting. I never thought of that.

203 00:19:56.200 ⇒ 00:20:08.749 Uttam Kumaran: They not only work on company strategy, but they also act as like a just going through, because I’m kind of like someone. I just go into meetings, and I’m like, what’s going on here. And then I’ll hear something be like, Why are we doing like I just poke.

204 00:20:08.950 ⇒ 00:20:16.710 Uttam Kumaran: and I’ll be like, Okay, send me the ticket that got ran, hey? This had no acceptance. Criteria. Why do we take this? I sort of like, I’m the only one that like can just go like.

205 00:20:16.710 ⇒ 00:20:17.170 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

206 00:20:17.170 ⇒ 00:20:19.527 Uttam Kumaran: Broad and like, throw stuff around

207 00:20:19.920 ⇒ 00:20:31.730 Vincent DiPalma: What you said was interesting, Chief of Staff to me. That role would have to. You’d have to like Mentor, that person for a little while it wouldn’t just be out of the gate. But then the hope is that they eventually become you like, and know how you think.

208 00:20:32.250 ⇒ 00:20:38.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, this is where, like chief of staff, like, I think the title is kind of marred by people being like those sort of receptionist, or like.

209 00:20:38.150 ⇒ 00:20:39.446 Vincent DiPalma: It’s an admin, yeah.

210 00:20:39.770 ⇒ 00:21:01.450 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t like that. And and we’re thinking about one person in the company who could be that? I told her I said you could change the title or whatever. But this is basically like, look, we need someone to help us with like setting Okrs measuring the okrs, there’s like strategy there. If we go through M and A, or if we do sort of larger partnership stuff, it’s like someone strategic there who can like organize stuff. And then, yeah, maybe it is this sort of like

211 00:21:02.200 ⇒ 00:21:04.420 Uttam Kumaran: spidey sense. Csm.

212 00:21:04.780 ⇒ 00:21:09.779 Uttam Kumaran: like type thing, where it’s like your job is to increase the Nps scores of our clients.

213 00:21:10.830 ⇒ 00:21:14.049 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s a list of activities you could do. I don’t know.

214 00:21:14.050 ⇒ 00:21:20.739 Vincent DiPalma: Do you think so? This is another skill set thing like I don’t know. There’s all these companies that make you go test all. Take all these like tests to see like what you’re.

215 00:21:20.740 ⇒ 00:21:21.230 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

216 00:21:21.230 ⇒ 00:21:26.250 Vincent DiPalma: But forget that for a second, just knowing common sense, like, there’s people that can read data and figure those things out.

217 00:21:26.250 ⇒ 00:21:28.020 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, that could read people and figure this.

218 00:21:28.020 ⇒ 00:21:28.640 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

219 00:21:28.640 ⇒ 00:21:38.169 Vincent DiPalma: So like, would you? I don’t know if you’re gonna get one that could do both necessarily like, maybe. But like that’s hard, you know so like. What is she good at? You know that that specific person.

220 00:21:38.170 ⇒ 00:21:43.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s tough. Because, yeah.

221 00:21:43.340 ⇒ 00:21:54.850 Vincent DiPalma: If she’s client facing the best way to. In my opinion, the best sources like here from their mouth. Right? But data tells you things that they don’t. Those people don’t even know like they might not even realize they’re hurting right now, and data could help you unlock so much.

222 00:21:54.850 ⇒ 00:21:56.720 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe you need 2 people then, and maybe.

223 00:21:56.720 ⇒ 00:21:57.240 Vincent DiPalma: Maybe.

224 00:21:57.240 ⇒ 00:21:57.690 Uttam Kumaran: Already.

225 00:21:57.690 ⇒ 00:21:59.889 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, and they need to have a good. And though but those are your.

226 00:21:59.890 ⇒ 00:22:07.650 Uttam Kumaran: No cause this person we have. Yeah, she’s pretty data driven. And so that’s the thing is like, if I put her in a meeting she’s gonna be. She may not see the nuance.

227 00:22:07.650 ⇒ 00:22:08.380 Vincent DiPalma: Right.

228 00:22:08.380 ⇒ 00:22:19.939 Uttam Kumaran: Right cause. Ultimately, what I try to tell people like we have a client where I’m like, we have to support an analyst team like, go meet every analyst to find out like where they came from, what they’re doing here

229 00:22:20.140 ⇒ 00:22:39.019 Uttam Kumaran: is they like data. They’ve had to leave like, find out what, and then get them to become a fan of us right? And through that like we’ll find out, and then that because ultimately our stakeholder will ask them like, what do you think about these guys? And they’re gonna be like, these guys are, clutch right? And so so someone you know, in the sales process

230 00:22:39.263 ⇒ 00:22:52.179 Uttam Kumaran: the other day I got advice where, you know, there’s 1 guy who was literally like through the sales process. He noted down everybody. All the stakeholders he’s heard about and literally writes that like, what do they care about like? Just like, no, like strategically, he’s like, I need to make sure

231 00:22:52.310 ⇒ 00:22:55.009 Uttam Kumaran: these guys are all check, check, check, check, check right? And like.

232 00:22:55.010 ⇒ 00:22:55.520 Vincent DiPalma: Huh!

233 00:22:55.520 ⇒ 00:23:05.839 Uttam Kumaran: Any. He’s like, sort of very systematically doing that. It’s very similar to the to the the delivery process where anybody who’s associated with us. We need to make sure that

234 00:23:06.100 ⇒ 00:23:13.300 Uttam Kumaran: they like our check box right at least once a month, or once a quarter, that if we know if you go to them. They’re not talking shit about us

235 00:23:13.480 ⇒ 00:23:14.130 Uttam Kumaran: right.

236 00:23:14.130 ⇒ 00:23:15.420 Vincent DiPalma: Right. That’s a.

237 00:23:15.420 ⇒ 00:23:17.050 Uttam Kumaran: That you need like a

238 00:23:17.350 ⇒ 00:23:21.340 Uttam Kumaran: you need to be a you need to be a salesperson like that’s not a quantitative.

239 00:23:21.590 ⇒ 00:23:22.930 Uttam Kumaran: No thing. That’s sort of like.

240 00:23:22.930 ⇒ 00:23:24.899 Vincent DiPalma: Something I actually learned when I was doing sales exactly what you just.

241 00:23:24.900 ⇒ 00:23:31.330 Uttam Kumaran: Find if you’re if like check like. Oh, this person’s in Denver. Find a reason to go to Denver and then be like, Hey, I’m in Denver like, let’s go.

242 00:23:31.330 ⇒ 00:23:33.200 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, right? Right? Like, think outside of.

243 00:23:33.200 ⇒ 00:23:33.550 Uttam Kumaran: Dash.

244 00:23:33.550 ⇒ 00:23:34.180 Vincent DiPalma: Stuff, yeah.

245 00:23:34.180 ⇒ 00:23:40.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So that’s maybe like a salesperson. Let’s see, the thing is like those sales guys, how do you comp them in like a

246 00:23:40.770 ⇒ 00:23:46.029 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know but this is where I’m like, I’m like, not interested in running these running a consultancy that’s

247 00:23:46.370 ⇒ 00:23:53.569 Uttam Kumaran: done it the way everybody does it. There are these esoteric things that I’m like? Why, how did like? There’s no role for some of this stuff.

248 00:23:53.760 ⇒ 00:23:54.090 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

249 00:23:54.090 ⇒ 00:23:59.730 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So the organizational hierarchy is what’s keeping us back, you know.

250 00:24:00.450 ⇒ 00:24:05.989 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, you’re so right, cause like. And then, like the pool of people you’re gonna pull from, like the really good ones like are just so.

251 00:24:05.990 ⇒ 00:24:09.319 Uttam Kumaran: You’re fixer. You want these. You want people to be just described as fixers, right?

252 00:24:09.320 ⇒ 00:24:10.570 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, right, right.

253 00:24:10.570 ⇒ 00:24:15.650 Uttam Kumaran: Your job is to go find a way in the next 6 months to go meet every client in person or whoever’s

254 00:24:15.810 ⇒ 00:24:18.670 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it. And I know just just doing that.

255 00:24:18.820 ⇒ 00:24:25.159 Uttam Kumaran: It’s gonna get us. It’s gonna amount to something. And that’s your job right? But like, that’s not what his role is that, you know, like I don’t. That’s.

256 00:24:25.160 ⇒ 00:24:50.080 Vincent DiPalma: And then there’s like the what’s good thing about knowing the people? One thing. One thing I see my consultants do at ey, failing wise is they’ll go into a meeting, and they’ll have this like Powerpoint deck, which I, fucking, hate Powerpoint, by the way, but they have this Powerpoint deck, and they go into a meeting, and like they’ll be selling to like Joe on like a topic of like. Let’s say, Kpis, and they’ll be selling to like Bob, the topic of like what features the product has. But like they didn’t realize that, like Bob.

257 00:24:50.080 ⇒ 00:25:01.420 Vincent DiPalma: give a shit about like Apis, and you know what I mean, and Joe cares about the features, and like they’re just spitting and like, by the time you get to that point in this, in the presentation, like Bob’s already checked out, or whatever so like. It’s knowing, like who your audience.

258 00:25:01.420 ⇒ 00:25:04.320 Uttam Kumaran: And they want to get through the deck like, and then I’m like, fuck the deck.

259 00:25:04.320 ⇒ 00:25:06.610 Vincent DiPalma: Right? Who cares? Skip around.

260 00:25:06.610 ⇒ 00:25:13.880 Uttam Kumaran: Conversation. We’ll keep leaning in, and in the last 2 min just be like cool. This is awesome like, just wanna confirm blah, blah! Blah, they’ll be like, Yeah, let’s go for it.

261 00:25:13.880 ⇒ 00:25:19.439 Vincent DiPalma: Exactly that should just be a person like I. There’s so many robots I work with, too, you know. It’s like.

262 00:25:19.440 ⇒ 00:25:23.987 Uttam Kumaran: But I just think something I don’t know. I don’t know what it is. It’s like something esoteric

263 00:25:25.480 ⇒ 00:25:25.950 Vincent DiPalma: I think it’s.

264 00:25:25.950 ⇒ 00:25:26.269 Uttam Kumaran: That you can.

265 00:25:26.270 ⇒ 00:25:33.549 Vincent DiPalma: You get caught in this like, and I’m in it right now. I’m 37, and I make a good salary, and I don’t necessarily believe.

266 00:25:33.920 ⇒ 00:25:46.619 Vincent DiPalma: like I think Ui is a good company. I do. But like I’m just a consultant at the end of the day, like I, I do believe that in my little team I’m going to be able to make a difference. But, like in the grand scheme of things, will I? But I’m so compensated so well.

267 00:25:46.620 ⇒ 00:25:47.140 Vincent DiPalma: Yes, he did.

268 00:25:47.140 ⇒ 00:25:48.930 Vincent DiPalma: It’s like they have me at the they.

269 00:25:48.930 ⇒ 00:25:51.320 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, that’s their model. Right? That’s the model right.

270 00:25:51.320 ⇒ 00:25:58.349 Vincent DiPalma: Exactly. But like those are the people that like a new, a newer company that like cares about people like doesn’t always get because of the.

271 00:25:58.350 ⇒ 00:26:05.949 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s why we’re kind of thinking about, you know, one model. And Clarence is the one that kind of pitched me on this because he was like dude. Why, he’s like, maybe you should consider running

272 00:26:06.140 ⇒ 00:26:21.929 Uttam Kumaran: your business on more of a partnership model. And I was like, yeah, so kind of my goal. And we’re kind of looking for something like this, where I’m like, someone just want to come and be head of go to market or data AI like the whole thing, and get like a P.

273 00:26:21.930 ⇒ 00:26:23.250 Vincent DiPalma: Yes. Yeah.

274 00:26:23.250 ⇒ 00:26:28.619 Uttam Kumaran: You get it? We’re yeah. And that’s what we’re thinking of how to do it. Where I was like he was like, give shares. I’m like dude.

275 00:26:28.730 ⇒ 00:26:30.869 Uttam Kumaran: There’s not. There’s gonna.

276 00:26:30.870 ⇒ 00:26:31.500 Vincent DiPalma: Corn.

277 00:26:31.810 ⇒ 00:26:33.070 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.

278 00:26:47.550 ⇒ 00:26:53.480 Uttam Kumaran: or shouldn’t move the ship your job.

279 00:26:55.050 ⇒ 00:27:08.269 Uttam Kumaran: And then that person all sales, but, like you also probably get leads through the door through the company. But your job is to execute. And you just you just basically get that. And so we were thinking of like finding people who are running like struggling consultancy that are smaller than us, or like.

280 00:27:08.270 ⇒ 00:27:08.610 Vincent DiPalma: And maybe.

281 00:27:08.610 ⇒ 00:27:14.610 Uttam Kumaran: Did it once, and like or like at like a big 4. And they’re like dude. I can run a book of business, but like I.

282 00:27:15.480 ⇒ 00:27:21.690 Uttam Kumaran: And then just give them be like, here’s like, here’s like a 70, 30 deal where you get 70% of the thing and you run it and.

283 00:27:21.690 ⇒ 00:27:27.979 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, but what would you think about for like base comp, though? Because who’s gonna leave a company that to come over there.

284 00:27:27.980 ⇒ 00:27:32.830 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know I would. That’s where I’m kind of debating, which is like you could take out, however much you want, and you.

285 00:27:33.030 ⇒ 00:27:35.130 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, I see what you’re saying. I see what you’re saying.

286 00:27:35.130 ⇒ 00:27:36.801 Uttam Kumaran: Just give you the whole thing.

287 00:27:37.080 ⇒ 00:27:38.599 Vincent DiPalma: What a risk, though, for you! No!

288 00:27:38.940 ⇒ 00:27:40.267 Vincent DiPalma: What if they suck.

289 00:27:40.600 ⇒ 00:27:44.059 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I mean they can’t suck. We’ll have. We’ll we’ll find some way to Suss that.

290 00:27:44.060 ⇒ 00:27:46.429 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, yeah, I guess that’s a good point. Yeah.

291 00:27:46.430 ⇒ 00:28:01.709 Uttam Kumaran: But for the person you get a P. And L minus all the risk, right? Like doing starting a business like this is really fucking hard. All the stuff I described recruiting, great talent, brand presence partnerships, leads

292 00:28:02.010 ⇒ 00:28:05.240 Uttam Kumaran: you. Those are the things that suck about this.

293 00:28:05.470 ⇒ 00:28:22.629 Uttam Kumaran: and I feel like executing is the easier like getting a client and doing this job. That’s if I would love to do that. I would love to get this opportunity. And had someone approached me with this when I was just starting assignment, and they would have given me sort of a pro upside role, which is like, Hey, you have a budget, and

294 00:28:23.000 ⇒ 00:28:28.799 Uttam Kumaran: and then you can go with that. And then ultimately I think that person succeeds will have a path towards you can buy into the company

295 00:28:28.920 ⇒ 00:28:29.440 Uttam Kumaran: you’re.

296 00:28:29.440 ⇒ 00:28:33.250 Vincent DiPalma: Almost like I’m not. Gonna I hate to know. This word is frowned upon, but like

297 00:28:33.590 ⇒ 00:28:39.289 Vincent DiPalma: multi market like level because, like you’re giving them. I mean, you’re gonna get a kickback or.

298 00:28:39.290 ⇒ 00:28:39.980 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

299 00:28:39.980 ⇒ 00:28:43.940 Vincent DiPalma: No, they’ll they’ll well, not a kickback. But you just always get a percentage of what they have.

300 00:28:43.940 ⇒ 00:28:47.390 Uttam Kumaran: But I just want to give smart people who want to better themselves.

301 00:28:47.640 ⇒ 00:28:48.200 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

302 00:28:48.200 ⇒ 00:28:50.770 Uttam Kumaran: Like a good like a fair deal.

303 00:28:50.770 ⇒ 00:28:51.330 Vincent DiPalma: That’s interesting.

304 00:28:51.330 ⇒ 00:28:55.809 Uttam Kumaran: For people. I don’t for people that are good at that. They know that the salary is what’s actually limiting.

305 00:28:56.070 ⇒ 00:28:56.480 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah.

306 00:28:56.480 ⇒ 00:28:59.650 Uttam Kumaran: Like, I’m not gonna do more than that. So instead, I’m like, Yo, you have

307 00:28:59.980 ⇒ 00:29:09.519 Uttam Kumaran: just have. But you have a P. And L to run our data function. Maybe it doesn’t start off as like the full thing. Maybe it’s just like piece, and then it sort of expands. But you become the GM

308 00:29:09.900 ⇒ 00:29:11.340 Uttam Kumaran: of the business?

309 00:29:11.802 ⇒ 00:29:21.889 Uttam Kumaran: And then that’s it. Because I can continue to go sell for you to like Wrangle. Okay, how do we do project management for these. What are the models? Okay, having a spidey sense about the clients.

310 00:29:21.890 ⇒ 00:29:27.730 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, so you’re saying they could, theory bring you in as like the as like. The could they bring in as like the hammer, almost.

311 00:29:27.730 ⇒ 00:29:32.387 Uttam Kumaran: They could also bring. They could also bring us in. But then, like but I I think it’s like, almost you’re just like

312 00:29:33.580 ⇒ 00:29:35.590 Uttam Kumaran: it is almost like a franchise model.

313 00:29:35.590 ⇒ 00:29:36.290 Vincent DiPalma: Right, right.

314 00:29:36.290 ⇒ 00:29:36.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

315 00:29:36.710 ⇒ 00:29:37.460 Vincent DiPalma: I’m thinking, Yeah.

316 00:29:37.460 ⇒ 00:29:49.210 Uttam Kumaran: Where get all the benefits of being in the brain forge ecosystem, but you also get a P. And L that you can manage, and then there are kpis to hit, and then ultimately, I want to give you an opportunity to buy into the business.

317 00:29:49.210 ⇒ 00:29:50.200 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah. And if you do

318 00:29:50.200 ⇒ 00:29:58.010 Vincent DiPalma: it based on just a thought right? Like, regionally based, because you don’t also want to like, have everyone kind of hunting for the same thing.

319 00:29:58.010 ⇒ 00:29:58.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

320 00:29:58.570 ⇒ 00:30:05.479 Vincent DiPalma: You know? Yeah. So like, hey, you’re focused on this data in this industry or AI in this region, you know, it’s like.

321 00:30:05.480 ⇒ 00:30:09.260 Uttam Kumaran: I just don’t think I can attract people that want to run stuff.

322 00:30:09.800 ⇒ 00:30:25.320 Uttam Kumaran: but through salary, but also running something like this and getting to where we are. It took a lot of luck, and is very, very hard. So for someone who wants to do that, talking to me is not going to convince them out of that. And so like, if you talk to me and you’re like cool, I’m ready like

323 00:30:25.730 ⇒ 00:30:40.500 Uttam Kumaran: you could say, fuck off like I could do my own thing. Go do it like that. That’s totally fine. I would have said that, you know, so I don’t mind. Go try it, but it’s very hard. And for someone that’s like dude, I just want to run a book of business where I have a bunch of clients very opinionated about how to execute these projects.

324 00:30:40.910 ⇒ 00:30:44.669 Uttam Kumaran: Here’s like we have, here’s like 6 data projects that are running.

325 00:30:44.840 ⇒ 00:30:48.400 Uttam Kumaran: We’re we’re basically almost hands off at this point.

326 00:30:48.510 ⇒ 00:30:51.229 Uttam Kumaran: I just need like a GM type person, you know.

327 00:30:51.230 ⇒ 00:30:54.689 Vincent DiPalma: Okay, I misunderstood that a little bit. So you would essentially hand them work too.

328 00:30:55.640 ⇒ 00:31:03.200 Uttam Kumaran: But this is where it just it’s up to them on how they want to run it, like, if they want to be on the project they can. If they want to go higher they can.

329 00:31:03.680 ⇒ 00:31:06.280 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like

330 00:31:07.670 ⇒ 00:31:17.489 Uttam Kumaran: there’s that’s what’s up to them to to sort of decide, and they can rely on the Us. To make some of those decisions for them, like if they’re like, you know. But but ultimately I don’t know the

331 00:31:18.710 ⇒ 00:31:37.920 Uttam Kumaran: what’s hard about this business is now becoming that like, I don’t think recruiting for us is hard, like we get great talent because we’re an engineering firm. I think a price, like having making selling is now starting to get figured out a little bit. But the management of the of the things is tough, and not one of the roles of like

332 00:31:38.030 ⇒ 00:31:55.149 Uttam Kumaran: an Ae, a pm, these guys, none of those they’re like they’re yes, there’s probably a Venn diagram of like caring. But they’re so self motivated because you’re stuck in this like I’m an account exec hat. I’m like a Pm. Hat instead. I want like a own. I want like a owner I want, like an owner of the thing.

333 00:31:55.150 ⇒ 00:31:55.980 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

334 00:31:55.980 ⇒ 00:31:59.470 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, I own, the success of this, regardless of what role I have to play.

335 00:31:59.680 ⇒ 00:32:08.599 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, cause I was actually gonna say, like a good. Now that we talked about everything, the one thing that popped my brain is like a growth product manager, or like someone from like, I know, a guy from stripe that was like a growth product manager that, like.

336 00:32:08.600 ⇒ 00:32:09.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

337 00:32:09.110 ⇒ 00:32:15.030 Vincent DiPalma: Wind up leaving because he want to go do his own thing. But it’s like that mentality of like they’re not in it for the money, either. They just want to see this.

338 00:32:15.030 ⇒ 00:32:21.199 Uttam Kumaran: Head of growth, head of go to market. But I want to cut them a great deal, which is a which is a rep split

339 00:32:21.380 ⇒ 00:32:35.299 Uttam Kumaran: right where, if they start to get the margins up, they can keep that right. And then maybe we have some balancing things like there’s some rules. But I want to cut a fair deal like I want to cut a deal where they you get access to the upside.

340 00:32:35.500 ⇒ 00:32:41.329 Uttam Kumaran: and but like, of course, like there’s no, there may not be a salary component like there is risk, but that’s the thing.

341 00:32:41.330 ⇒ 00:32:42.450 Vincent DiPalma: Are people using.

342 00:32:42.610 ⇒ 00:32:42.970 Uttam Kumaran: I’m sorry.

343 00:32:42.970 ⇒ 00:32:43.360 Vincent DiPalma: Which one.

344 00:32:43.360 ⇒ 00:32:43.900 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

345 00:32:43.900 ⇒ 00:32:46.770 Vincent DiPalma: Are you willing to like? Open your books and show them the revenue that you’re.

346 00:32:46.770 ⇒ 00:32:49.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, I don’t care. That’s on care about. Like, yeah.

347 00:32:49.430 ⇒ 00:32:54.110 Vincent DiPalma: And is your main goal? I never asked this question like, Do you want to do this long term, or do you want to get bought.

348 00:32:54.270 ⇒ 00:32:56.539 Uttam Kumaran: I think we’ll we’re trying to sell this thing.

349 00:32:56.540 ⇒ 00:32:57.350 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

350 00:32:57.350 ⇒ 00:32:59.570 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. But I’m not taking steps.

351 00:33:00.210 ⇒ 00:33:06.539 Uttam Kumaran: or is that now? But dude running a service business is a tough business, and it’s not a very like high multiple business.

352 00:33:07.087 ⇒ 00:33:10.159 Vincent DiPalma: I think we’re finding ways to do it creatively like.

353 00:33:10.476 ⇒ 00:33:12.589 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll show you some stuff today with some of the AI stuff.

354 00:33:12.590 ⇒ 00:33:13.090 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

355 00:33:13.090 ⇒ 00:33:20.890 Uttam Kumaran: I, I think we’re thinking of these like kind of weird models, like, I get advice from a lot of people. And then I sort of decide like what I think is.

356 00:33:20.890 ⇒ 00:33:21.949 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, a rabbit.

357 00:33:22.170 ⇒ 00:33:41.360 Uttam Kumaran: the prehistoric era. And what’s like actually like interesting to do and so that’s what is fun for me is like coming up these models. And then what I realized because I just went through starting one of these right? So I think a lot about my own what was incentivized to me. And look if I can take some of the risk off meaning you’re getting handed

358 00:33:41.460 ⇒ 00:33:49.839 Uttam Kumaran: some deals. But I also take some upside off, meaning like you’re not. You don’t have ownership in the company, or like you don’t have significant ownership.

359 00:33:50.230 ⇒ 00:33:54.109 Uttam Kumaran: There’s still a deal to be made for someone out there. I think the tough part is like

360 00:33:54.270 ⇒ 00:33:56.910 Uttam Kumaran: recruiting. That person is probably hard. But

361 00:33:57.060 ⇒ 00:34:02.480 Uttam Kumaran: I think some people will see like, Yeah, I actually don’t want to come in. I don’t want to be a project manager. I don’t wanna be. I want to kind of be a lot of those things.

362 00:34:03.160 ⇒ 00:34:16.530 Uttam Kumaran: But I kind of want to lead. I just want to lead a book of business. I just do like I don’t wanna figure out recruiting like. And if they if, for example, if that person is like Hey, I need 2 senior AI people cool, I’ll go find those, and I’ll you kind of just get recruiting.

363 00:34:16.530 ⇒ 00:34:18.619 Vincent DiPalma: Right resources from the mothership.

364 00:34:18.620 ⇒ 00:34:20.399 Vincent DiPalma: You’re not on your. You’re not on your own. Yeah.

365 00:34:20.400 ⇒ 00:34:25.094 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And it’s also not like these are like, separate. These are all people in slack and stuff like that. But like, it’s like,

366 00:34:25.610 ⇒ 00:34:28.900 Uttam Kumaran: you could. It’s almost like I want to call the recruiting Api to get like people.

367 00:34:28.909 ⇒ 00:34:30.139 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, right, right.

368 00:34:30.139 ⇒ 00:34:30.589 Uttam Kumaran: Again.

369 00:34:30.590 ⇒ 00:34:34.419 Vincent DiPalma: Like Mark. I don’t know if that person you’re talking about that you’re thinking about Chief of Staff, or whatever name you’re gonna call it. Bill.

370 00:34:34.429 ⇒ 00:34:34.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

371 00:34:34.989 ⇒ 00:34:45.129 Vincent DiPalma: A little marketing slick around this like not to be too cheesy, but like kind of detailing it out and like targeting like almost like a headhunter, targeting like specific people and flat.

372 00:34:45.130 ⇒ 00:34:53.110 Uttam Kumaran: What do you? What do you? What would you? Is there? Is there any sort of like? I thought, this is like an Md. Title like, isn’t this what they do? I don’t know anything about.

373 00:34:53.600 ⇒ 00:35:21.509 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah. So Mds, from what I understand in my firm in the consulting world, not just my firm. Mds report to the partner. Right. So they are like their right hand. So that’s a really good idea. The catch is that not all Mds and that familiarity have to sell? Not all of them do. It’s just some people do have to sell so like there could be. There’s 2 paths. There’s the if you think about like a general manager like you keep saying where they have to run the ship, and then there’s the bring in revenue. Ed. The bring in revenue. Ed is just a different personality.

374 00:35:21.510 ⇒ 00:35:27.839 Uttam Kumaran: Because I think about it like like a Ford dealership, right? Like, you know, like you have to put the Ford stamp. So people walk in the door.

375 00:35:27.840 ⇒ 00:35:28.180 Vincent DiPalma: Yep.

376 00:35:28.180 ⇒ 00:35:32.620 Uttam Kumaran: And yes, maybe you have some budget for marketing and stuff, but the mothership does a lot of that.

377 00:35:32.970 ⇒ 00:35:33.320 Vincent DiPalma: So.

378 00:35:33.320 ⇒ 00:35:50.180 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe there is like some responsibilities where, if for the leads you bring in, then there’s maybe there’s a different split, and then the leads that come source from the company there. Maybe there’s different split. And that way, yeah, if you want to add sales to your ownership, there you there is a benefit to doing so.

379 00:35:50.180 ⇒ 00:35:51.050 Vincent DiPalma: Of course the cost.

380 00:35:51.050 ⇒ 00:35:53.410 Uttam Kumaran: It is time and right, and if you.

381 00:35:53.740 ⇒ 00:36:17.700 Vincent DiPalma: Bring in a salesperson. You’re saying, basically, because, like, when when I used to work in sales, there was there’s 2 leaders of the branch. It was a sales manager, and the GM. The GM. Ran the operations of what? What the sales manager sold, so sales sold. GM. Ran it right like. And if that person then wants to bring in a sales minded person, that’s great cause. Right now, your need specifically is someone to run it. You’re saying you’re bringing in. You’re bringing in revenue already. So like this isn’t a hot topic. It’s really running right.

382 00:36:17.700 ⇒ 00:36:26.960 Uttam Kumaran: But what? But what also, like the mothership works on is new services. R&D, right like, there’s a reason we’re in AI, because I just decided that. And I made us. I made us like.

383 00:36:27.360 ⇒ 00:36:28.949 Vincent DiPalma: A force in that world.

384 00:36:28.950 ⇒ 00:36:29.270 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

385 00:36:29.270 ⇒ 00:36:38.320 Uttam Kumaran: That’s something that, like anyone who comes in now doesn’t have to go figure out what are the types of AI things we’re doing. The case. Study resources like all of that, like the network.

386 00:36:39.380 ⇒ 00:36:40.660 Uttam Kumaran: you know, and.

387 00:36:40.660 ⇒ 00:36:41.440 Vincent DiPalma: Much sense.

388 00:36:41.440 ⇒ 00:36:46.819 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s like I have to think about sort of the marketing towards this. But you’re right in that. The way I’m looking at this is.

389 00:36:47.030 ⇒ 00:36:54.800 Uttam Kumaran: we’re going after specific people who who are like, maybe in an ui or something. And they’re like fuck. I want to go run one of these. But.

390 00:36:54.800 ⇒ 00:36:55.380 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

391 00:36:55.380 ⇒ 00:36:57.020 Uttam Kumaran: From scratch is really hard.

392 00:36:57.020 ⇒ 00:36:57.430 Vincent DiPalma: Yep.

393 00:36:57.430 ⇒ 00:37:03.380 Uttam Kumaran: And I. It’s my job to con maybe share with them how hard it is, but then also cut them a deal that’s like that’s worth it, you know.

394 00:37:03.380 ⇒ 00:37:11.299 Vincent DiPalma: The only thing I would like I’d encourage personally to maybe stay away, from which I think you’d be all game for is, if you call them Md. And they come from consulting.

395 00:37:11.300 ⇒ 00:37:15.190 Uttam Kumaran: Well, that’s the thing. I don’t know. I’m not dude. I don’t care about titles at all, but I just don’t know.

396 00:37:15.190 ⇒ 00:37:15.860 Vincent DiPalma: Doing? Like yeah.

397 00:37:15.860 ⇒ 00:37:16.890 Uttam Kumaran: But to.

398 00:37:16.890 ⇒ 00:37:18.079 Vincent DiPalma: Don’t be hierarchy, I guess.

399 00:37:18.080 ⇒ 00:37:20.540 Uttam Kumaran: It is like a head of Go to market.

400 00:37:20.540 ⇒ 00:37:21.670 Vincent DiPalma: Head, of something that.

401 00:37:21.670 ⇒ 00:37:22.630 Uttam Kumaran: Head of.

402 00:37:23.830 ⇒ 00:37:33.349 Vincent DiPalma: Head of head of growth head of, I mean, I think I think, like, or head of head of operations. I don’t know. Cause. Then you’re gonna get a different group of people I don’t know. We can ask AI what it thinks we should name.

403 00:37:33.350 ⇒ 00:37:49.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. Yeah. But that’s what I’m thinking. Because ultimately, now, the complicated part of this, like, I’m not finding that any of the clients we’re working on. The job is too hard to do. It’s just that nobody cares. None of the individuals in the movie give a shit. And I need a director.

404 00:37:50.580 ⇒ 00:37:54.150 Uttam Kumaran: And like, that’s the sort of next level thing.

405 00:37:56.470 ⇒ 00:38:08.210 Uttam Kumaran: And like trying to think about that where I think my, I’m trying to think about like what was an offer that I would take. And if a consultancy came to me and was like, you’re basically gonna be CEO, like a service line.

406 00:38:08.230 ⇒ 00:38:08.940 Vincent DiPalma: Yep.

407 00:38:08.940 ⇒ 00:38:15.500 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s it. And then again, we can decide on what things you want to have responsibility over, and that dictates the

408 00:38:15.650 ⇒ 00:38:16.980 Uttam Kumaran: the deal right like.

409 00:38:16.980 ⇒ 00:38:29.350 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah. And then you’d have to. So maybe a good idea to start to is like, see, maybe like a glass door like one of those companies like, what is the comp structure of those companies? And I know comp structures. But I’m not just talking about the financial gain I’m talking about.

410 00:38:29.350 ⇒ 00:38:29.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

411 00:38:29.840 ⇒ 00:38:36.289 Vincent DiPalma: You get health care, you get 4 0, 1 k. Like, what are all these things? And then how are you coming comparable to those things, or are you not? And then just come.

412 00:38:36.290 ⇒ 00:38:39.069 Uttam Kumaran: No. So there’s basically they. They describe us like a total rewards

413 00:38:39.190 ⇒ 00:38:47.039 Uttam Kumaran: plan, but also, but also for for people like, I would basically do like a I would do like a projection of like.

414 00:38:47.330 ⇒ 00:38:52.169 Uttam Kumaran: Look if if you we have like a here’s like a $500,000 line of business

415 00:38:52.350 ⇒ 00:38:57.750 Uttam Kumaran: like, here’s like, here’s like, if it turns into a million. Here’s like what you can probably expect.

416 00:38:57.750 ⇒ 00:38:59.470 Vincent DiPalma: Right, and like social projection.

417 00:38:59.470 ⇒ 00:39:03.340 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, actual projections. And I don’t know.

418 00:39:03.340 ⇒ 00:39:05.139 Vincent DiPalma: Buyout, which is flattered.

419 00:39:05.140 ⇒ 00:39:10.450 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And then and then also, I will tell, like, I’m really honest to tell people like, Look where you want to try to sell this business.

420 00:39:11.120 ⇒ 00:39:17.619 Uttam Kumaran: So ultimately you can buy into Brainforge, you know. And then there’s a benefit for Brainforge.

421 00:39:17.620 ⇒ 00:39:26.800 Vincent DiPalma: Know it’d be good like Clarence because he was I don’t know if he did his background much, but he like was up. He wouldn’t be up for partner because he was too young, but he would have been up for partner next year.

422 00:39:26.910 ⇒ 00:39:31.410 Vincent DiPalma: and he left because of obvious reasons, but like he would have been like one of those person that are like senior.

423 00:39:31.806 ⇒ 00:39:32.599 Uttam Kumaran: He knows.

424 00:39:32.600 ⇒ 00:39:33.630 Vincent DiPalma: Double, yeah.

425 00:39:33.630 ⇒ 00:39:40.389 Uttam Kumaran: That’s that’s who I was, where I’m like these guys are just they’re like, I know, I have what it takes. But it’s just don’t have the resume.

426 00:39:40.390 ⇒ 00:39:42.260 Vincent DiPalma: You gotta no way.

427 00:39:42.260 ⇒ 00:39:47.419 Uttam Kumaran: But also, yeah, it’s a lot of politics. And okay, we just go on our own and we prove it.

428 00:39:47.420 ⇒ 00:39:48.350 Vincent DiPalma: Exactly. We prove it.

429 00:39:48.350 ⇒ 00:39:51.740 Uttam Kumaran: And so you’ve tried to find someone exactly like that. That maybe is like.

430 00:39:52.080 ⇒ 00:39:53.559 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, maybe I should look at like

431 00:39:53.810 ⇒ 00:39:58.860 Uttam Kumaran: people’s jobs when they’ve like jumped pretty rapidly. But they’re they’re still below a certain age, and maybe.

432 00:39:58.860 ⇒ 00:40:03.890 Vincent DiPalma: That’s a great idea. Do get the data from Linkedin. I just got promoted to senior manager. By the way, I don’t know if I told you that.

433 00:40:03.890 ⇒ 00:40:05.159 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, hell, yeah.

434 00:40:05.160 ⇒ 00:40:06.120 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, man, so.

435 00:40:06.120 ⇒ 00:40:06.700 Uttam Kumaran: Good night.

436 00:40:06.700 ⇒ 00:40:24.550 Vincent DiPalma: My trajectory in my mind is like, if I’m not at the partner level, if I’m not talking about it 5 years from now, then I jump ship like that’s at least in my brain. Right? Like 7 years is what they tell you. But like, I’m like, I’m gonna hit in 5. Yeah, and that’s my goal. But like those people on Linkedin that you saw them hit it like 10 years ago, like what.

437 00:40:24.550 ⇒ 00:40:25.400 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.

438 00:40:25.400 ⇒ 00:40:27.159 Vincent DiPalma: Or like 7 years, you know.

439 00:40:27.160 ⇒ 00:40:39.899 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, maybe yo, that is actually so smart. Well, because you know, we, you know, we automate a ton of outbound. So I literally go to our team. And I’m like, Hey, I want to build a like. This is what we’re doing right now. I’m looking for people with like

440 00:40:39.950 ⇒ 00:41:00.870 Uttam Kumaran: various sort of project management program manager titles focused on Austin with Pmp. Certification. That work at like we. I have a list of our top 200 competitors that are in this like 30 competitor subset coming to companies. And I said, Go find all those and then put them in a Linkedin campaign. That’s that’s what I’m doing. I’m literally getting.

441 00:41:00.870 ⇒ 00:41:01.400 Vincent DiPalma: Exempt.

442 00:41:01.400 ⇒ 00:41:03.289 Uttam Kumaran: And so you want to see the message I’m sending.

443 00:41:03.290 ⇒ 00:41:07.500 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, if you could. Is there a way that you can make it? Not say in mail.

444 00:41:08.538 ⇒ 00:41:10.770 Uttam Kumaran: No. So we don’t do email, we connect first.st

445 00:41:10.770 ⇒ 00:41:11.700 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? So some people

446 00:41:11.700 ⇒ 00:41:15.779 Uttam Kumaran: will do in mail. So let me show you. Let me show you an example of like

447 00:41:16.020 ⇒ 00:41:18.540 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, show me some other AI stuff, too.

448 00:41:18.540 ⇒ 00:41:23.312 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna show you that. Yeah, I want to show you that, too. So here’s an example of a guy that I met

449 00:41:23.880 ⇒ 00:41:28.610 Uttam Kumaran: I met him the last week. So we sent him this message,

450 00:41:32.360 ⇒ 00:41:36.300 Uttam Kumaran: where is my okay? Great.

451 00:41:37.370 ⇒ 00:41:40.659 Uttam Kumaran: So this is automated message, okay.

452 00:41:40.860 ⇒ 00:41:48.679 Uttam Kumaran: hey? Hope you’re doing well, I run Brain Forge, based in Austin, looking to connect with awesome folks and technical consulting, came customer profile would love to buy you a coffee.

453 00:41:49.760 ⇒ 00:41:53.610 Uttam Kumaran: This is going out to like hundreds of people who fit.

454 00:41:53.610 ⇒ 00:41:57.220 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, my God! How did you do that? So you automated that, and and.

455 00:41:57.220 ⇒ 00:41:57.580 Uttam Kumaran: Lost!

456 00:41:57.580 ⇒ 00:41:59.559 Vincent DiPalma: Come over as it looks like you did it.

457 00:42:00.290 ⇒ 00:42:05.541 Uttam Kumaran: Well, yeah, I mean, what if you got this message? And you were someone who felt that their job wasn’t valuing them?

458 00:42:05.780 ⇒ 00:42:11.429 Uttam Kumaran: No, I’m I’m saying it doesn’t look like what I’m getting is a lot of a lot of like automated ones that like.

459 00:42:11.430 ⇒ 00:42:14.874 Uttam Kumaran: I know, that’s because they suck, because that’s because they suck. Yeah, right?

460 00:42:15.140 ⇒ 00:42:16.220 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, that’s so bad!

461 00:42:16.220 ⇒ 00:42:19.330 Uttam Kumaran: Immediately. He’s like I’m down, I said, cool. I’m in near Mueller. Let’s go meet, and we met.

462 00:42:19.540 ⇒ 00:42:20.660 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, nice! That’s.

463 00:42:20.660 ⇒ 00:42:25.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And so there’s a bunch of people like like that fits my role.

464 00:42:25.210 ⇒ 00:42:31.299 Uttam Kumaran: Cory’s good, too. This just happened today, I think back to her. Hey? Hope you’re doing well. Technical product, owner, data analyst like.

465 00:42:31.980 ⇒ 00:42:32.320 Vincent DiPalma: Dude.

466 00:42:32.320 ⇒ 00:42:35.149 Uttam Kumaran: Right. She probably has pmp. Somewhere in her thing.

467 00:42:35.270 ⇒ 00:42:44.330 Uttam Kumaran: She looks like a great fit. She works at Texas mutual. They’re just up literally the offices right here. So I’m gonna call her. Get her coffee and be like.

468 00:42:44.330 ⇒ 00:42:45.130 Vincent DiPalma: Hell, yeah.

469 00:42:45.130 ⇒ 00:42:52.359 Uttam Kumaran: So what I do in these meetings? Do I go there and tell them all about the business? And then I’m like, Look, if you’re interested like we’re always hiring like. Let me know what you think.

470 00:42:52.360 ⇒ 00:42:56.039 Vincent DiPalma: What you’re talking about is exactly my criteria. By the way, if I didn’t just have a baby and I didn’t.

471 00:42:56.670 ⇒ 00:42:57.300 Uttam Kumaran: Media.

472 00:42:58.280 ⇒ 00:42:59.269 Uttam Kumaran: No, I for me.

473 00:42:59.641 ⇒ 00:43:05.208 Uttam Kumaran: So we. So we use this company called Clay play is for like, basically

474 00:43:05.810 ⇒ 00:43:09.920 Uttam Kumaran: like, just, it’s a kind of a spreadsheet. Ask software.

475 00:43:09.920 ⇒ 00:43:10.679 Vincent DiPalma: Heard of it.

476 00:43:11.034 ⇒ 00:43:24.155 Uttam Kumaran: This is like all the rage right now. Where you can set up workbooks for enrichment. And so we use Linkedin and several other sources to actually find these folks. So look, this is like,

477 00:43:25.844 ⇒ 00:43:28.465 Uttam Kumaran: let’s try to find them.

478 00:43:34.570 ⇒ 00:43:39.580 Uttam Kumaran: yeah. So this is find talent. Texas solution architect, though

479 00:43:39.710 ⇒ 00:43:52.179 Uttam Kumaran: we basically like, I give my team a criteria. They use clay and and a few other enrichment sources to go find people as you could tell. They’re Slalom red kite, right pop, sort of like

480 00:43:52.310 ⇒ 00:43:58.660 Uttam Kumaran: 50 or so. And I and I want to find them in Austin first, st because I can go meet them. And then we’re moving to Central Texas because I can go

481 00:43:58.820 ⇒ 00:44:06.339 Uttam Kumaran: like, beat them in person, and much better odds of like saying something. And so we’re looking at solution architects right now, where I’m like cool. I want to find someone who’s like

482 00:44:07.000 ⇒ 00:44:12.570 Uttam Kumaran: solution, architect, senior solution architect from one of the top companies. And then, basically, I’ll hit them and say, Hey, like

483 00:44:12.850 ⇒ 00:44:15.890 Uttam Kumaran: would love to talk to you about potentially.

484 00:44:15.890 ⇒ 00:44:18.199 Vincent DiPalma: So smart, man, how did you get what? So what?

485 00:44:18.200 ⇒ 00:44:21.904 Uttam Kumaran: It’s basically sales for recruiting. So this is so. This is coming from

486 00:44:22.600 ⇒ 00:44:29.130 Uttam Kumaran: I think we may be pulling this from Apollo or.

487 00:44:29.130 ⇒ 00:44:29.800 Vincent DiPalma: And.

488 00:44:29.800 ⇒ 00:44:36.550 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe Linkedin directly using their Api. But it’s basically like what you would. This is how you would set up a sales campaign. We’re using it for recruiting.

489 00:44:36.730 ⇒ 00:44:38.850 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, so smart. Yep. And that’s.

490 00:44:38.850 ⇒ 00:44:48.499 Uttam Kumaran: Because like, and then I but then the the thing is this can get sent to a tool we use call Hey, reach which automates, Linkedin messages. I now have done enough cold stuff, so I know, like

491 00:44:48.630 ⇒ 00:44:56.839 Uttam Kumaran: roughly write a decent message, but also my profile looks half decent. So it’s not like. It doesn’t look like I’m some AI person. And so

492 00:44:57.640 ⇒ 00:45:04.300 Uttam Kumaran: for the people that like want to talk like. And then I go have coffee with them. I’m a real person. We have a decent chance. Right? So this is how I.

493 00:45:04.300 ⇒ 00:45:05.549 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, so cool.

494 00:45:05.550 ⇒ 00:45:07.849 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t have full time recruiters right like.

495 00:45:07.850 ⇒ 00:45:08.270 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

496 00:45:08.270 ⇒ 00:45:09.010 Uttam Kumaran: You know.

497 00:45:09.010 ⇒ 00:45:10.440 Vincent DiPalma: You don’t need them, though, with this like this is.

498 00:45:10.440 ⇒ 00:45:11.110 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. Yeah.

499 00:45:11.110 ⇒ 00:45:14.709 Vincent DiPalma: You’re the one for this role, too. You’re the one that’s gonna wanna like, have that touch.

500 00:45:14.940 ⇒ 00:45:19.150 Uttam Kumaran: But what did this take? It took me having a clear sense of the type of role like

501 00:45:19.460 ⇒ 00:45:25.490 Uttam Kumaran: who would fit. Okay, let’s buy stores in person. I need to know Clay, I need to know, like.

502 00:45:26.085 ⇒ 00:45:28.109 Vincent DiPalma: So now you need to know years of employee.

503 00:45:28.110 ⇒ 00:45:28.510 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.

504 00:45:28.510 ⇒ 00:45:30.729 Vincent DiPalma: If we want to go that route right. If you could.

505 00:45:30.730 ⇒ 00:45:34.529 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. So the next thing we’ll look at. But then again, now that we try some of these.

506 00:45:35.100 ⇒ 00:45:40.069 Uttam Kumaran: we’ll get better and better and better. And and this is the way I think people want to get recruited these days versus like.

507 00:45:40.320 ⇒ 00:45:40.800 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah.

508 00:45:40.800 ⇒ 00:45:44.450 Uttam Kumaran: Their job posting and stuff. They want to get a message from the CEO that says, Yo.

509 00:45:45.140 ⇒ 00:45:50.400 Uttam Kumaran: I like, I love what you’re doing like would love to chat. If I got a message I’d be like, fuck. Yeah. Finally, like.

510 00:45:50.400 ⇒ 00:45:53.680 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, a hundred percent. And that’s why that was my point with Inmail. I’m getting.

511 00:45:53.680 ⇒ 00:45:56.529 Uttam Kumaran: Like 10 a day, and they just seem random. They’re like.

512 00:45:56.530 ⇒ 00:45:59.139 Uttam Kumaran: no, I mean, look, my email is like random shit like this.

513 00:46:00.120 ⇒ 00:46:02.189 Vincent DiPalma: I don’t. I don’t look at any of these. So

514 00:46:02.190 ⇒ 00:46:06.289 Vincent DiPalma: oh, do not. Yeah. I got a couple of frauds. Actually, a couple of years ago I was like never.

515 00:46:06.290 ⇒ 00:46:07.230 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.

516 00:46:07.580 ⇒ 00:46:11.420 Vincent DiPalma: So that’s what the. And then let me show you this. So we just yeah. Let’s see.

517 00:46:11.420 ⇒ 00:46:14.509 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of like shipped a couple of things. This is our like internal platform.

518 00:46:15.323 ⇒ 00:46:16.650 Uttam Kumaran: So basically.

519 00:46:16.790 ⇒ 00:46:24.060 Uttam Kumaran: this is the culmination of like, probably like 6 months of just like various AI work that we did kind of all surrounding

520 00:46:24.440 ⇒ 00:46:38.149 Uttam Kumaran: Brainforge operations. So we have, like a dashboard, with, like all of our meetings in it you can chat directly with our brain. Forge. Gpt. This is actually like a Router agent. So if you ask a question, it’ll figure out is a client related? Question, is this like a

521 00:46:38.390 ⇒ 00:46:55.129 Uttam Kumaran: did I use one or many tools? You can click into? Like, let’s just take. This is our like a marketing meeting. Right? So you can go in here. You can watch the video. You can see the summary can see the Transcript. You can easily copy it into your own chat. Gpt. If you want it.

522 00:46:55.280 ⇒ 00:46:57.940 Uttam Kumaran: you can create linear tickets directly from here.

523 00:46:58.280 ⇒ 00:47:01.940 Uttam Kumaran: Moving from transcript to ticket, of course, is like a huge

524 00:47:02.470 ⇒ 00:47:15.150 Uttam Kumaran: like half of the job of a project manager. So now we’re sort of like fixing that you can also generate email summaries. So you can pick. Hey, is this a pro? I want to send a project management type email. And or I want to send a sales type. Email.

525 00:47:15.290 ⇒ 00:47:19.779 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, this is like a sales email related to like they’re now in the decision stage

526 00:47:20.050 ⇒ 00:47:40.600 Uttam Kumaran: draft me the email and it’ll it’ll do that for you where you can hit draft, you can add an additional notes and hit draft. So kind of like the way I describe it is like, we’re kind of hitting like. Now level 2 economy where I’m like, yeah, we did basic transcripts. We did summaries. Now, I want to then have it take action. But a little nuance action. Right? So when you write an email summary for sales.

527 00:47:40.670 ⇒ 00:47:50.480 Uttam Kumaran: you need to probably understand what just happened in the meeting. You probably need some nuance from the salesperson like, Hey, make sure to shout out Jeff’s dog, or something like that. Make sure! Shout out.

528 00:47:50.480 ⇒ 00:47:51.200 Vincent DiPalma: Right, right.

529 00:47:51.200 ⇒ 00:47:54.260 Uttam Kumaran: And then to know the stage it’s in.

530 00:47:54.390 ⇒ 00:47:57.119 Uttam Kumaran: So these are all just templates, like prompt templates.

531 00:47:57.340 ⇒ 00:48:02.260 Uttam Kumaran: and then it generates it. And then it’s it’s probably 80% there. This gets put into my email drafts

532 00:48:02.420 ⇒ 00:48:08.190 Uttam Kumaran: and I go in it. I maybe tweak a couple of things. And then we ship it. So like 80% of the work gets done

533 00:48:09.140 ⇒ 00:48:14.000 Uttam Kumaran: without me having to do anything. This is something that anybody on our team I can say, hey? Can you go? Generate me

534 00:48:14.270 ⇒ 00:48:16.040 Uttam Kumaran: the follow up for this client.

535 00:48:16.150 ⇒ 00:48:17.890 Uttam Kumaran: They can go do that.

536 00:48:17.890 ⇒ 00:48:18.835 Vincent DiPalma: Do you have

537 00:48:19.700 ⇒ 00:48:22.769 Vincent DiPalma: One archiving and 2 follow ups built in.

538 00:48:25.060 ⇒ 00:48:26.550 Uttam Kumaran: Archiving, meaning.

539 00:48:27.014 ⇒ 00:48:38.610 Vincent DiPalma: Once. This gets sent, because right now, if it goes to your outbox like it’s just in your outbox, and like no one, be able to get to that and like, how do you know? Like, how do you remember? Okay, in 2 weeks I want to follow back up with that person.

540 00:48:38.940 ⇒ 00:48:43.212 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So one, I mean, we use Hubspot for stuff. So we’ll have some automated like,

541 00:48:44.000 ⇒ 00:49:04.510 Uttam Kumaran: hey, this deal is is like, been in the cycle for a while, like these sort of deal reminders that are like Come kind of come out of the box. But every time I go to the sales meeting. So my process these days I go to a sales meeting. I use whisper which is like the speech, the text I literally brain dump for 30 seconds what just happened in my perspective? And I said, Can I get an email drafted.

542 00:49:04.510 ⇒ 00:49:05.640 Vincent DiPalma: Hmm! And then.

543 00:49:05.640 ⇒ 00:49:13.709 Uttam Kumaran: Someone on my team comes in here uses this puts in my like brain dump. And it gets a. It’s a great email.

544 00:49:13.710 ⇒ 00:49:16.019 Vincent DiPalma: Really cool. Not a good idea. Man.

545 00:49:16.020 ⇒ 00:49:21.260 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s but see, that’s like the level 2. Right? So now I can, I can get like a I don’t need the salesperson because

546 00:49:21.630 ⇒ 00:49:27.089 Uttam Kumaran: you. I can sentence 8 h of sales meetings and dance, but it’s the it’s the follow ups

547 00:49:27.710 ⇒ 00:49:29.150 Uttam Kumaran: that is hard.

548 00:49:29.150 ⇒ 00:49:29.580 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yeah.

549 00:49:29.750 ⇒ 00:49:36.180 Uttam Kumaran: It’s okay. We need an sow drafted cool. So one thing we have here is now we have an sow creator, pro agent.

550 00:49:36.510 ⇒ 00:49:40.690 Uttam Kumaran: where I use an sow creator prompt on my chat. Gpt.

551 00:49:40.980 ⇒ 00:49:49.219 Uttam Kumaran: Now I want to make that available to anyone in the company, so you can come in here. You can upload a transcript easily, create an sow.

552 00:49:49.330 ⇒ 00:49:54.880 Uttam Kumaran: And now anybody in my team can generally create a 60% decent sow

553 00:49:55.040 ⇒ 00:49:58.660 Uttam Kumaran: that I can go in and look and edit from there versus like.

554 00:49:58.660 ⇒ 00:49:59.150 Vincent DiPalma: Cool.

555 00:49:59.150 ⇒ 00:50:06.700 Uttam Kumaran: He having to do these things. And so now, some of the agents that I typically have in my chat gpts projects we now made available here.

556 00:50:06.810 ⇒ 00:50:11.829 Uttam Kumaran: and so can basically, as anyone can come in here, go to manage agents

557 00:50:11.980 ⇒ 00:50:17.260 Uttam Kumaran: literally like, see the agents that are available. And all this is Vibe coded. By the way, like all of us.

558 00:50:17.690 ⇒ 00:50:18.120 Uttam Kumaran: like

559 00:50:18.260 ⇒ 00:50:25.020 Uttam Kumaran: none of this, no one on my team does front end. It’s all live coded and and then you can go in here

560 00:50:25.606 ⇒ 00:50:30.789 Uttam Kumaran: edit. An agent. You can see there’s literally a prompt in here, so anyone in the company can come in here add more agents.

561 00:50:31.580 ⇒ 00:50:47.940 Uttam Kumaran: And so these are now made available. Anyone who wants to. And then so that’s that’s 1 thing. We’re starting to add departments. So this all these are some of our clients. You you won’t. You’ll be able to actually see departments. So all of our sales, meetings, Ops. Meetings, marketing meetings and get the same functionality.

562 00:50:48.369 ⇒ 00:50:52.950 Uttam Kumaran: We also have demos. So these are demos that we typically put in front of clients like

563 00:50:53.466 ⇒ 00:50:59.390 Uttam Kumaran: and so we we now made them accessible through the platform. As well, yeah.

564 00:51:32.940 ⇒ 00:51:35.310 Vincent DiPalma: Alright! I think I have another 15 min. If that.

565 00:51:35.310 ⇒ 00:51:43.310 Uttam Kumaran: You’re gone. So this is like an example of like something we would put in front of a client during a sales meeting where here’s an here’s like a rag. Demo.

566 00:51:43.870 ⇒ 00:51:44.720 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, that’s a question.

567 00:51:44.720 ⇒ 00:51:46.399 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to pull something out of documents.

568 00:51:46.400 ⇒ 00:51:47.060 Vincent DiPalma: Yep.

569 00:51:47.060 ⇒ 00:52:00.390 Uttam Kumaran: But it’s actually not the trouble of like having this Demo built. I just want anyone to have access to the moment anyone talks with a client is like, can you show me a couple of things of what you guys do? I want them to easily be able to go somewhere to get this.

570 00:52:00.390 ⇒ 00:52:05.140 Vincent DiPalma: And why can’t you you? This isn’t something you can like post as like an app on everyone’s like desktop. If you will.

571 00:52:07.130 ⇒ 00:52:07.650 Vincent DiPalma: Or in.

572 00:52:08.180 ⇒ 00:52:10.970 Uttam Kumaran: Well, it’s all. It’s all like a cloud based. Demo, right?

573 00:52:10.970 ⇒ 00:52:11.660 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

574 00:52:11.660 ⇒ 00:52:21.880 Uttam Kumaran: So this is something we we developed for 1, 1 sales. For example, this is something we built for one sales process like one opportunity, but now I want it available to any sales opportunities that seem related to this.

575 00:52:21.880 ⇒ 00:52:23.059 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, yeah, we’re doing this.

576 00:52:23.060 ⇒ 00:52:38.789 Vincent DiPalma: Put it in a portfolio. So not to interrupt you. But like we put it. And we use a simple dude. It’s so simple, it’s power app. And we, Microsoft, and we take all of our Demos and our live Demos, we can actually do. And we throw it in a power app, and then everyone has like a little portfolio, and they take that portfolio, put it on ipad, and they go to.

577 00:52:38.790 ⇒ 00:52:43.319 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, exactly, but I’m doing. I I would say I have none of those people you probably described.

578 00:52:43.320 ⇒ 00:52:43.873 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, okay.

579 00:52:44.730 ⇒ 00:52:45.223 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

580 00:52:47.050 ⇒ 00:52:47.625 Vincent DiPalma: Right.

581 00:52:48.200 ⇒ 00:53:03.439 Uttam Kumaran: The people that built this are working on clients. And I’ve also worked. So we’re doing this like that’s it’s sort of like, can you find a little bit of like the scalability, and it needs to be easy for anyone that’s in front of a client to go find this. And so one thing that we’re sort of working on is this, like.

582 00:53:03.720 ⇒ 00:53:06.920 Uttam Kumaran: basically this kind of a platform, you know, where we have

583 00:53:07.080 ⇒ 00:53:10.190 Uttam Kumaran: various sort of tools, various sort of agents

584 00:53:10.310 ⇒ 00:53:26.119 Uttam Kumaran: for anyone on our team to use. Soon you’ll be able to go into. So, for example, if you go into a client, you could see all the meetings associated with a client, all the people that were in the meeting. You can chat with all the meetings you filter the certain the participants you want. So we’re gonna add, like chat with transcripts.

585 00:53:26.160 ⇒ 00:53:40.999 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna add, like a case study feature. For example, my marketing team has a hard time getting case studies from our team because everyone’s busy, cool. Find a meeting where maybe we talked about a project, use our case study agent to pull, drag that meeting in, and it’ll output you everything you need. Right? The case study.

586 00:53:41.000 ⇒ 00:53:41.620 Vincent DiPalma: That’s right.

587 00:53:41.620 ⇒ 00:53:48.200 Uttam Kumaran: Those that’s like level 2 like kind of things where? Okay? Well, that may have been like a marketing coordinator’s job

588 00:53:48.350 ⇒ 00:53:56.660 Uttam Kumaran: to do, or they had to go chase down people to go figure that out. Now they can sort of get it, get it from here. So we’re kind of evolving this like

589 00:53:57.620 ⇒ 00:53:59.990 Uttam Kumaran: platform to be able to do

590 00:54:00.150 ⇒ 00:54:09.509 Uttam Kumaran: some of this stuff. And and this is something that I would frankly for that. GM, I’d be like, okay, you get the you get the platform right. These are things where, as the GM. Of a party, I’m like you may be able to get.

591 00:54:09.790 ⇒ 00:54:14.799 Uttam Kumaran: I’m able to get 10% efficiency in your P. And L. By using some of these tools.

592 00:54:14.800 ⇒ 00:54:15.760 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, yes, right?

593 00:54:15.760 ⇒ 00:54:20.880 Vincent DiPalma: Just having the Demos alone are like massive. For, because, yeah, integrating themselves.

594 00:54:20.880 ⇒ 00:54:23.699 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly. And so these are the things where I’m like, okay.

595 00:54:24.590 ⇒ 00:54:36.320 Uttam Kumaran: typically, like a consultancy like this is like something like, I feel like you guys at your level would have internal tools at my level. There’s nobody we we shouldn’t even be talking people across. Clients shouldn’t be talking to each other, you know.

596 00:54:36.320 ⇒ 00:54:37.060 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.

597 00:54:37.350 ⇒ 00:54:42.789 Uttam Kumaran: right. And that’s that’s the difference now is like, this is something that I manage with, like the

598 00:54:42.970 ⇒ 00:54:47.759 Uttam Kumaran: some subset of hours from the AI folks on my team, and

599 00:54:47.890 ⇒ 00:54:54.090 Uttam Kumaran: we work on this right, because this directly affects everybody at the company. The speed at which they could do all their tasks. You know.

600 00:54:54.090 ⇒ 00:55:00.569 Vincent DiPalma: Can you? And is it just not affording or don’t want to yet like, just take one of those people off and dedicate them full time to making this like.

601 00:55:00.570 ⇒ 00:55:01.990 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just affording. It’s just.

602 00:55:01.990 ⇒ 00:55:02.560 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

603 00:55:02.560 ⇒ 00:55:03.609 Vincent DiPalma: Can’t watch it.

604 00:55:03.610 ⇒ 00:55:05.210 Vincent DiPalma: I’m off of a client. Yeah, when you can.

605 00:55:05.210 ⇒ 00:55:11.170 Uttam Kumaran: Well, yeah, it’s just it’s just budget, basically. I mean, this is what they like to work on more than the clients, though, because.

606 00:55:11.170 ⇒ 00:55:12.160 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, I bet everyone.

607 00:55:12.160 ⇒ 00:55:15.319 Uttam Kumaran: Client has ever asked me about any building any of these things.

608 00:55:15.320 ⇒ 00:55:23.209 Uttam Kumaran: I just find that strange, though, because the clients I talked to like a lot of them are like, I just want one centralized location. And it’s like, No, no.

609 00:55:23.210 ⇒ 00:55:29.880 Uttam Kumaran: say this, but like like to. For for example, for someone to develop this feature

610 00:55:30.120 ⇒ 00:55:34.609 Uttam Kumaran: like, Hey, we, we sell, we send 10 types of emails.

611 00:55:35.110 ⇒ 00:55:42.369 Uttam Kumaran: And each of those have prompts associated with them. I want a Ui where you can select that basically select that prompt and generate it. That’s like.

612 00:55:43.100 ⇒ 00:55:50.719 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t think I I don’t know how I know the I know both sides of the equation really well. So I can say, build this feature.

613 00:55:50.830 ⇒ 00:55:59.950 Uttam Kumaran: But my AI team that would not know. And my people that sent emails. My company would not know that you could do this. So, knowing that I can go from transcript to prompt

614 00:56:00.090 ⇒ 00:56:07.189 Uttam Kumaran: and just given a couple of like selectors is what allows us to do this. I don’t have clients coming to us with

615 00:56:07.560 ⇒ 00:56:16.460 Uttam Kumaran: these ideas. They like they want efficiency, but they’re not like what I want is like an EA, re, a pretty simple email creator

616 00:56:16.960 ⇒ 00:56:17.890 Uttam Kumaran: way, Jack.

617 00:56:18.240 ⇒ 00:56:28.399 Vincent DiPalma: But isn’t it back to that? Isn’t that back to like the whole? I argue with my partners about this, sometimes like back to the whole like the for, like Henry, like Ford right where he’s like. If I if I asked what they wanted they’d say a faster car. But.

618 00:56:28.400 ⇒ 00:56:29.500 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s right.

619 00:56:29.500 ⇒ 00:56:32.080 Vincent DiPalma: You know. So it’s or they say that they want a faster horse.

620 00:56:32.080 ⇒ 00:56:32.569 Vincent DiPalma: The horse

621 00:56:32.570 ⇒ 00:56:44.229 Vincent DiPalma: I want a car like that’s the same thing here like. In my opinion, what is really helpful would be something that can like joint them together. You have a demo that shows a document pulling information off.

622 00:56:44.230 ⇒ 00:57:09.099 Vincent DiPalma: And then let’s say, that’s like, that’s like a document, right? That that document gets fed into an email to their leadership, or whatever the hell it is right like showing that just demo chain of agents, and then being like, we can build this for you, they and but they asked you to come in to do like a demo on. I don’t know notices, or something like like that to me is like I get a lot of hits hits on that when I start talking about agentic workflow. They didn’t even know what the hell that means. But they’re like, oh, my God.

623 00:57:09.100 ⇒ 00:57:19.669 Vincent DiPalma: God! I can do that. And then it just comes down to Price point timing like, can we really even do it for them? So I do think it in this world. We need to be the consultants, and we need to tell them.

624 00:57:19.670 ⇒ 00:57:20.380 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

625 00:57:20.380 ⇒ 00:57:22.280 Vincent DiPalma: This is what you need. They need.

626 00:57:22.280 ⇒ 00:57:28.950 Uttam Kumaran: That’s why we go. We try to sell to like the top. And I’m like, just give me a little free rein, because what I bring to the table is like.

627 00:57:29.110 ⇒ 00:57:46.749 Uttam Kumaran: I know that this is Paul. I’ve known that we could build even with my lowly budget and time. I can build this right? So I’ve had this vision in my head for a long time. It’s only now do I have any amount of hours, and like this is like a side quest for us right like.

628 00:57:46.890 ⇒ 00:57:58.130 Uttam Kumaran: If if I was an employee at Brain Forge and Brain Forge is run by someone more traditional, they’d be like, why, the fuck are we working on this? So it’s only until 6 months later. Are people now like Whoa, like.

629 00:57:58.130 ⇒ 00:57:58.780 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

630 00:57:59.030 ⇒ 00:58:11.189 Uttam Kumaran: And this is where I can go to clients. I go to new recruiter recruits and say, Hey, we have a platform that helps you take take care of all this Bs work that you would typically do. But it was a vision before it was like reality.

631 00:58:11.300 ⇒ 00:58:17.089 Uttam Kumaran: We built some of these agents and did the data engineering for this months ago. But it never came together like this.

632 00:58:17.580 ⇒ 00:58:31.719 Vincent DiPalma: Why don’t you? I guess what piece I’m disconnected on is like, I look again looking at your website. I feel like you are doing part marketing yourself the same way that we are where we’re coming in and can be your soul consultants. But like one thing I don’t remember seeing is like other than data. I see heavy.

633 00:58:31.720 ⇒ 00:58:32.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

634 00:58:32.040 ⇒ 00:58:35.030 Vincent DiPalma: But like like these are AI products. Now.

635 00:58:35.030 ⇒ 00:58:35.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

636 00:58:35.580 ⇒ 00:58:40.609 Vincent DiPalma: Position themselves right? Like we have a product that will take a transcript. This might be something you want to build.

637 00:58:40.610 ⇒ 00:58:41.030 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.

638 00:58:41.030 ⇒ 00:58:49.519 Vincent DiPalma: To the market, but it takes a transcript, and then it creates an org an org chart or a process flow document right like, and that’s fucking. That’s massive.

639 00:58:49.520 ⇒ 00:58:50.159 Uttam Kumaran: No. No. Yeah.

640 00:58:50.160 ⇒ 00:58:55.000 Vincent DiPalma: Jam tried it, but like to me, that’s a product. And like that would be on my website, you know, and be like, Hey, we.

641 00:58:55.000 ⇒ 00:58:57.579 Uttam Kumaran: The reason we haven’t done it. Dude. It’s just capacity and.

642 00:58:57.580 ⇒ 00:58:58.010 Vincent DiPalma: No.

643 00:58:58.010 ⇒ 00:58:59.379 Uttam Kumaran: One that can articulate this.

644 00:58:59.380 ⇒ 00:59:00.713 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? Alright.

645 00:59:01.380 ⇒ 00:59:03.510 Uttam Kumaran: Only one who knows the engineering

646 00:59:03.670 ⇒ 00:59:07.669 Uttam Kumaran: that has a sales and then can go to marketing and be. It’s pure.

647 00:59:07.670 ⇒ 00:59:12.430 Vincent DiPalma: You are a unicorn. I don’t have engineering as I wish. That would be like the basic length man.

648 00:59:12.430 ⇒ 00:59:18.340 Uttam Kumaran: It’s pure, it’s pure bandwidth dude. It’s it’s none other than like, you’re totally right, and

649 00:59:18.460 ⇒ 00:59:21.750 Uttam Kumaran: it is in a list to do is a to do list somewhere with it.

650 00:59:21.750 ⇒ 00:59:23.419 Vincent DiPalma: Well, I guess, because my thought is not because, like.

651 00:59:23.420 ⇒ 00:59:24.319 Uttam Kumaran: Totally right, you know.

652 00:59:24.320 ⇒ 00:59:31.990 Vincent DiPalma: And you. But you’re saying like, we can’t have time money to focus on this. I get that, too. But at the end of the day like this is a product for you. You know what I mean, like

653 00:59:31.990 ⇒ 00:59:36.320 Vincent DiPalma: to not focus on it. It’s just that dude. I’ve I have to go other things. Yeah.

654 00:59:36.320 ⇒ 00:59:42.450 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s not even that. It’s just we’re. This is the perils of a of a running. A business is that.

655 00:59:42.450 ⇒ 00:59:43.120 Vincent DiPalma: Button.

656 00:59:43.120 ⇒ 00:59:49.870 Uttam Kumaran: I ha! I can’t I? There’s just all the things that are. If you were to look at the list you’d be like, damn! I don’t know what’s more important than.

657 00:59:49.870 ⇒ 00:59:50.950 Vincent DiPalma: I get you.

658 00:59:50.950 ⇒ 01:00:08.643 Uttam Kumaran: You know. So that’s the problem. Is that like I it’s tough for me to go. Our our marketing team could go execute anything, but they need the vision, and they need sort of like what it is we’re putting out there. So we are starting like one thing we’re starting to do, and I’ll just show you this before I have to. Run is, I think,

659 01:00:09.490 ⇒ 01:00:11.620 Uttam Kumaran: let’s see, let’s see if I have this.

660 01:00:11.800 ⇒ 01:00:13.340 Vincent DiPalma: And hopefully, these calls are, I.

661 01:00:13.340 ⇒ 01:00:17.870 Uttam Kumaran: No dude. This is great, this is super great. I feel like I had a bunch of other stuff to share with you, anyways. But.

662 01:00:17.870 ⇒ 01:00:19.099 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, we could set up another hour.

663 01:00:19.100 ⇒ 01:00:24.579 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me. Let me show you this. So

664 01:00:25.720 ⇒ 01:00:29.050 Uttam Kumaran: this is basically what we’re working on. It’s not

665 01:00:29.710 ⇒ 01:00:43.720 Uttam Kumaran: sort of completely finished it. But exactly to your point is one of the things I told our marketing teams. I want to do way more showing and way less telling. And so that was the theme. And I’m like, I want to take all these demos and put this shit up on the site.

666 01:00:43.720 ⇒ 01:00:44.130 Vincent DiPalma: It’s like.

667 01:00:44.130 ⇒ 01:00:51.240 Uttam Kumaran: And so we’re working on this demo site where basically, you can go in. You can try the demo. And literally, it’s here.

668 01:00:51.580 ⇒ 01:00:52.360 Vincent DiPalma: That’s so sick.

669 01:00:52.360 ⇒ 01:01:02.660 Uttam Kumaran: And this is, I hopefully, I think, closer to what you mentioned, which is like, hey, try our like linear ticket generator. Try our like rag system. And this is something where.

670 01:01:02.660 ⇒ 01:01:03.070 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

671 01:01:03.070 ⇒ 01:01:10.881 Uttam Kumaran: To go in flip through the types of Demos. For example, this is something we we vibe coded as part of a sales process for a personal injury.

672 01:01:11.260 ⇒ 01:01:34.769 Uttam Kumaran: like a or like a telehealth company where they wanted some measurement system to understand whether, like cause the best they need to use the patient notes to bill insurance. And so they wanted some system where they can see all their patient notes in one area. They can analyze, click, analyze and analyze whether, like there were any like issues with those notes. And so we built a little like vibe coded thing for them.

673 01:01:34.770 ⇒ 01:01:38.069 Vincent DiPalma: Well, that’s genius. You actually are going to allow people to click buttons and not.

674 01:01:38.070 ⇒ 01:01:40.159 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, a real ui.

675 01:01:40.160 ⇒ 01:01:44.930 Vincent DiPalma: Very freaking cool. The only thing I’d say is, you might wanna throw in some tool tips and on like on.

676 01:01:44.930 ⇒ 01:01:45.440 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, yes.

677 01:01:45.440 ⇒ 01:01:48.190 Vincent DiPalma: But that’s yes, sick man, and so oh.

678 01:01:48.190 ⇒ 01:01:49.830 Uttam Kumaran: What this, what this does is like.

679 01:01:49.830 ⇒ 01:01:50.510 Vincent DiPalma: Awesome.

680 01:01:50.510 ⇒ 01:01:55.354 Uttam Kumaran: You could go in here and see cool. These are actionable records where, hey? The patient reported.

681 01:01:55.880 ⇒ 01:02:06.659 Uttam Kumaran: That means you should do something. And like again. These were requirements, as from the sales process where we learned enough about this. And then I, we built this. And I’m like, I don’t want this to just die because we didn’t get.

682 01:02:06.660 ⇒ 01:02:07.850 Vincent DiPalma: No right.

683 01:02:07.850 ⇒ 01:02:10.790 Uttam Kumaran: And this is all synthetic data. By the way, not these people don’t exist.

684 01:02:10.790 ⇒ 01:02:11.300 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah.

685 01:02:11.300 ⇒ 01:02:12.960 Uttam Kumaran: There’s no pii here at all.

686 01:02:13.300 ⇒ 01:02:24.630 Vincent DiPalma: That’s huge. That’s exactly it like. And now this is a product. Yeah, you’re so you’re there already, like, this is a product. You just gotta make sure like. Now, another thing is, you can’t just have us in your website. You have to have the right people looking at this.

687 01:02:24.630 ⇒ 01:02:29.730 Uttam Kumaran: Also every all of these are going to come. Associate. Come with a video of me talking through it cool like talking head.

688 01:02:29.730 ⇒ 01:02:30.240 Vincent DiPalma: Yep.

689 01:02:30.650 ⇒ 01:02:33.379 Uttam Kumaran: Thing is like these aren’t necessarily

690 01:02:33.860 ⇒ 01:02:52.660 Uttam Kumaran: like we’re. I’m not selling this as like a buy. This licenses off the shelf. I’m saying these are capabilities we can do, because ultimately what AI is longest. Just build. You bespoke software tools right? So you may not find something you may say, Hey, I like this, but I just wish you could do one more thing cool like we could totally develop that for you.

691 01:02:53.180 ⇒ 01:03:03.879 Uttam Kumaran: And instead of you going and searching the market for a tool that doesn’t exist, or you have to go buy like a salesforce and spend a bunch of money configuring it. You guys just need a little tool for your team that we can go build.

692 01:03:03.880 ⇒ 01:03:20.390 Vincent DiPalma: And here’s like the key features down like, I don’t know if I didn’t see when you scroll. So like, yeah, I mean just my thought right when you scroll, always keep the key features up, because what you’re telling is the flow. So like I’m now seeing there’s an intern intuitive search. I won’t click access. And now I can build my own little, you know, tool, or think you know.

693 01:03:20.390 ⇒ 01:03:21.539 Uttam Kumaran: And so I don’t, and I don’t.

694 01:03:21.540 ⇒ 01:03:21.939 Vincent DiPalma: And so.

695 01:03:21.940 ⇒ 01:03:26.219 Uttam Kumaran: You’re over explaining how this is done, because I if people were able to do it, they would have done it.

696 01:03:26.430 ⇒ 01:03:28.960 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, I want show. And so this is something where

697 01:03:29.290 ⇒ 01:03:43.180 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think there’s another consulting firm like us, that is, and this is only allowed because of AI, because previously. I couldn’t have built these and put them out, but we’re doing these as part of discovery, and so we might as well ship them.

698 01:03:43.410 ⇒ 01:03:51.130 Vincent DiPalma: And they’re hosted on a little server, and I’m just gonna put them up there. And now we can drive traffic towards these. And then ideally.

699 01:03:51.460 ⇒ 01:04:18.070 Uttam Kumaran: My goal in sales ultimately is like, when I go speak with a person on a sales call. They get it. And I’m like I need to scale that right? And so what are the pieces apart from? Just me being in this room and and being nice? That so it’s a it’s a demo. And so, okay, cool, can, I? Can. I put something up? It’s the. It’s like the talking head thing. Okay, let’s rely video. I’ll I’ll record myself walking through the demo. We’ll put it right up on the homepage. It’s like our case studies. It’s like so.

700 01:04:18.070 ⇒ 01:04:24.840 Vincent DiPalma: You know it’d be cool if you had a little. I don’t. There’s a fine line, but a little bit of an onboarding where, like.

701 01:04:24.840 ⇒ 01:04:25.240 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

702 01:04:25.240 ⇒ 01:04:33.200 Vincent DiPalma: You come into the to the website and you ask them like one to 3 questions, and then you can have the talk track dynamically change when they get to the page.

703 01:04:33.200 ⇒ 01:04:38.740 Uttam Kumaran: Well, you know what. So this is. I’ll show you like what our our sort of new

704 01:04:39.935 ⇒ 01:04:41.789 Uttam Kumaran: sort of designs are. Let me just.

705 01:04:41.790 ⇒ 01:04:45.730 Vincent DiPalma: You mind if I get your cell too? I have this app. I just love feedback on it.

706 01:04:45.730 ⇒ 01:04:46.700 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

707 01:04:46.840 ⇒ 01:04:58.629 Vincent DiPalma: I built the whole damn thing. And then I I hired a developer. Actually he came in and said that the code was too advanced, and he couldn’t help me, so I don’t need to look at the code, but I just want to see I I trimmed it down, and I just want to see if he thought.

708 01:04:58.630 ⇒ 01:05:00.600 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah, I just sent it in the chat, for sure.

709 01:05:00.600 ⇒ 01:05:01.749 Vincent DiPalma: My man. Thank you.

710 01:05:01.995 ⇒ 01:05:05.429 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’ll just wanna show you this. And then I have to hop on.

711 01:05:05.430 ⇒ 01:05:06.759 Vincent DiPalma: Oh, no, for sure!

712 01:05:07.073 ⇒ 01:05:21.179 Uttam Kumaran: This is like what we’re we’re doing sort of a new redesign. And I should honestly, I should send you this. But like we’re working on different formats. But I said, Look, because you know, what we did is we looked through. We’re looking through

713 01:05:21.420 ⇒ 01:05:35.310 Uttam Kumaran: Inspo from all of other things like other companies, like, what are people doing for case studies? What are people doing for their like their nav bars? Right? Cause? I used to be a product manager. So I’m like cool. Let’s go get a bunch of Inspo and figure this out.

714 01:05:35.310 ⇒ 01:05:35.700 Vincent DiPalma: Right.

715 01:05:35.700 ⇒ 01:05:39.779 Uttam Kumaran: And a lot of it sucks. And I’m like, Okay, well, one thing that people aren’t doing is

716 01:05:40.030 ⇒ 01:06:09.910 Uttam Kumaran: put the CEO right on the fucking home, page, and I’ll be like, Hey, welcome, thanks! So much for checking this out. I’ll give you the 10 second thing that I know I’m we’re trying to make happen through the website. But the web is just not a good medium. I’ll it’ll be 20 seconds. Hey? Thank you so much for coming. We’re brain Forge Bootstrap. We start a few years ago. We have great team, amazing clients. We do data. And AI thanks for checking this out. If you’re going to check out one thing highly, encourage you to do this.

717 01:06:10.000 ⇒ 01:06:12.939 Uttam Kumaran: Feel free. Let me know if you have any questions, and that’s just the video.

718 01:06:12.940 ⇒ 01:06:13.720 Vincent DiPalma: Style.

719 01:06:13.720 ⇒ 01:06:30.989 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And that’s just the video. And then you can scroll down and like, we have everything here. But I do think that one thing things. All the lot of these things are lacking. And this is just because I think it’s a lot of like older people that are running these companies that they don’t want to take this risk. And the marketing is kind of just told to put stuff up and

720 01:06:31.100 ⇒ 01:06:39.430 Uttam Kumaran: is like, Okay, do the things that don’t scale. Let’s record some videos. Let’s just make it like a lot more personal that they’re hiring a person

721 01:06:39.560 ⇒ 01:06:42.430 Uttam Kumaran: right like they’re not. Hi. They’re not hiring like.

722 01:06:42.430 ⇒ 01:06:44.089 Vincent DiPalma: You look pretty approachable.

723 01:06:44.090 ⇒ 01:06:52.539 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I’m in. I mean, dude. I’m in this room wearing a Nike pullover. But we’re serious. Go to open the Linkedin. We’re serious, we, and we have great things, and I’m like

724 01:06:52.700 ⇒ 01:06:55.790 Uttam Kumaran: you should call us here. You should call us.

725 01:06:55.790 ⇒ 01:07:02.800 Vincent DiPalma: I I like. I like the trust by companies, too. I also feel like there, that’s a that’s a lot of real estate right there. Just personally, I I.

726 01:07:02.800 ⇒ 01:07:03.160 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

727 01:07:03.160 ⇒ 01:07:16.319 Vincent DiPalma: Cause just that. I mean the the thing I go back and forth on is like you look a little younger. I look a little younger all the time, like I want to trust you and like, who are you working with? I get that. But also like I feel like there’s something there that can. Maybe I don’t know. Maybe I’m.

728 01:07:16.320 ⇒ 01:07:17.050 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

729 01:07:17.050 ⇒ 01:07:18.089 Vincent DiPalma: You know, just a thought like something.

730 01:07:18.090 ⇒ 01:07:20.949 Uttam Kumaran: And what I don’t know. If you have any opinions on, like.

731 01:07:21.060 ⇒ 01:07:24.699 Uttam Kumaran: what? What kind of a couple of things that that I gave feedback is on like

732 01:07:25.080 ⇒ 01:07:28.169 Uttam Kumaran: common thing we’re seeing is like people should just list their services here.

733 01:07:28.800 ⇒ 01:07:34.722 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know if we should like sort of buck this trend. I think maybe we should just do that, and just put the couple of things that we do.

734 01:07:34.920 ⇒ 01:07:39.850 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, I don’t mind if I I don’t. You don’t give me access to the figma. But if you want to like, send a Pdf of a screen.

735 01:07:39.850 ⇒ 01:07:41.070 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I will. I will.

736 01:07:41.070 ⇒ 01:07:42.190 Vincent DiPalma: Yeah, cool.

737 01:07:42.190 ⇒ 01:07:50.270 Uttam Kumaran: I’d love for you to take. Take a look at this and just like any sort of feedback, because I don’t. Wanna I want to this is going to be like our 3rd evolution of, like

738 01:07:50.690 ⇒ 01:07:56.549 Uttam Kumaran: the branding of the company. And like we, I had everybody in my company read this book, building, a story brand about.

739 01:07:56.550 ⇒ 01:07:57.120 Vincent DiPalma: Cool.

740 01:07:57.430 ⇒ 01:08:01.367 Uttam Kumaran: Branding, and is really, really, really good. And

741 01:08:02.230 ⇒ 01:08:32.209 Uttam Kumaran: we’re doing. We’re like changing a lot of the copy. But I just want, like, I’m we learn. I learned a lot about what people think about in the sales process. And the website needs to be extension of what’s working in my 30 min meeting. That’s right. And so that’s what I’m trying to bias more towards like, yes, I want to look towards the competition. But the competition is like, yeah, scared or like, it’s bifurcated. There’s a marketing team business team. And then there’s the CEO and none of those people. And so we’re lucky to have me that I can think about all this in this moment. And I’m like.

742 01:08:32.560 ⇒ 01:08:35.270 Uttam Kumaran: here’s what I think we should do like. Sometimes I read this. I’m like.

743 01:08:35.540 ⇒ 01:08:50.010 Uttam Kumaran: what the fuck are we even saying who’s gonna read some of this stuff? So then, like, make the front way bigger, put a couple of key things. Because I’m like, Look, if we’re going after Ceos and busy people, they’re looking at this. They’re gonna scroll down a couple of things. Give them a clear way to call me

744 01:08:50.210 ⇒ 01:08:52.392 Uttam Kumaran: 30 seconds. So.

745 01:08:53.120 ⇒ 01:08:56.450 Vincent DiPalma: Love, I mean, I gotta go to my wife. She’s called me twice. I’m gonna get murdered.

746 01:08:56.450 ⇒ 01:08:56.770 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

747 01:08:56.770 ⇒ 01:09:02.270 Vincent DiPalma: But I and I’ll give you feedback for sure, like I do love. I know it sounds silly. The onboarding aspect and.

748 01:09:02.270 ⇒ 01:09:02.830 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

749 01:09:02.830 ⇒ 01:09:12.809 Vincent DiPalma: Things dynamically changing. It’s difficult to shit, but like if it cause right now, it’s gonna take me 3 screens to get to what I think is important. If you knew what I think is important upfront, you can get me.

750 01:09:12.810 ⇒ 01:09:15.620 Uttam Kumaran: What would you like? What were some questions you think you’d have to answer.

751 01:09:15.620 ⇒ 01:09:36.270 Vincent DiPalma: That’s what I don’t. I’d have to think about it. But like right now, it’s like, I know, I have a client like we just did a whole before I left the whole wave space with a client, and at the end of it dude. We showed so many cool things at the end of it. All they said was like, Do you have something that can like read notices, and like we didn’t do the notice. Demo and I was like holy shit, and that’s what they actually went up buying. And I’m like.

752 01:09:36.270 ⇒ 01:09:37.060 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

753 01:09:37.060 ⇒ 01:10:01.939 Vincent DiPalma: Now, if I would have knew that you give a shit about because they’re shy like, especially like in tax, that they’re all introverted. So no one actually say anything until the very end, and like I could have changed the whole thing so like if my point to that is like, if you would have knew that they’re interested in notices. Upfront you, drive them right to the notice, demo, and have your little voice over and then like, okay now, and we also have XY and Z, that can like. But it’s just dynamic, which I’m not easy.

754 01:10:02.110 ⇒ 01:10:02.760 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

755 01:10:03.178 ⇒ 01:10:04.710 Vincent DiPalma: But okay, I’ll text you, my, my.

756 01:10:04.710 ⇒ 01:10:06.280 Uttam Kumaran: So, yeah, of course, of course, of course.

757 01:10:06.280 ⇒ 01:10:07.190 Vincent DiPalma: Alright dude! I’ll talk to you soon.

758 01:10:07.250 ⇒ 01:10:08.700 Uttam Kumaran: Okay? Bye.