Meeting Title: 30 days checkpoint Awaish-Uttam-Robert Date: 2025-06-05 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Fireflies.ai Notetaker Awaish, Robert Tseng, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:00:25.600 ⇒ 00:00:26.650 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!
2 00:00:26.820 ⇒ 00:00:29.229 Robert Tseng: Hey! There are 3 oashes.
3 00:00:32.710 ⇒ 00:00:35.005 Uttam Kumaran: There are 3 oasis.
4 00:00:36.460 ⇒ 00:00:40.910 Robert Tseng: It was bought a wish realish, and I don’t know who the 3rd one is.
5 00:00:42.660 ⇒ 00:00:43.810 Awaish Kumar: Chaotic.
6 00:00:43.920 ⇒ 00:00:48.770 Awaish Kumar: I’m not sure, like I schedule this meeting, and then I am not able to join.
7 00:00:49.470 ⇒ 00:00:50.319 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah.
8 00:00:52.510 ⇒ 00:00:54.609 Awaish Kumar: Host should start the meeting. It says.
9 00:01:01.640 ⇒ 00:01:03.070 Uttam Kumaran: Well, how’s everything?
10 00:01:07.390 ⇒ 00:01:08.970 Awaish Kumar: All good. How about you?
11 00:01:10.880 ⇒ 00:01:15.443 Uttam Kumaran: Good feel like, I wish I thought today was Friday when I woke up.
12 00:01:17.040 ⇒ 00:01:22.149 Uttam Kumaran: Got one more. But we have a lot of stuff today. Actually, so just like
13 00:01:22.380 ⇒ 00:01:24.880 Uttam Kumaran: trying to get through it all, yeah.
14 00:01:25.280 ⇒ 00:01:30.322 Awaish Kumar: Yes, I I’m all. I also wish that it was Friday.
15 00:01:32.341 ⇒ 00:01:37.380 Robert Tseng: You have a I guess you’re there’s a national holiday or something coming up for you. Wish you’re off tomorrow.
16 00:01:37.380 ⇒ 00:01:40.520 Awaish Kumar: Yes, yes, tomorrow and Monday.
17 00:01:40.970 ⇒ 00:01:41.630 Robert Tseng: Wow!
18 00:01:41.820 ⇒ 00:01:45.019 Robert Tseng: Are you doing anything with the family, or are you just stay staying around.
19 00:01:45.300 ⇒ 00:01:48.879 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, I’m going to visit my
20 00:01:49.150 ⇒ 00:01:51.500 Awaish Kumar: family, which is like in the village.
21 00:01:52.600 ⇒ 00:01:52.990 Robert Tseng: Okay.
22 00:01:53.010 ⇒ 00:01:54.960 Awaish Kumar: So it’s like desert like.
23 00:01:56.170 ⇒ 00:01:58.339 Awaish Kumar: So it would be fun. There.
24 00:01:58.880 ⇒ 00:01:59.590 Robert Tseng: Nice.
25 00:01:59.830 ⇒ 00:02:02.160 Robert Tseng: It’s not too hot in the desert right now.
26 00:02:02.560 ⇒ 00:02:09.079 Awaish Kumar: It is like in the in the mornings it’s very hot, and in the night it becomes very cold.
27 00:02:09.080 ⇒ 00:02:09.650 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
28 00:02:10.220 ⇒ 00:02:17.889 Awaish Kumar: So yeah, nights are like evening, and the nights are very nice there, even in summer.
29 00:02:18.040 ⇒ 00:02:21.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah, that’s cool.
30 00:02:23.250 ⇒ 00:02:28.219 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’m I’m heading home tomorrow. I’m excited for this journey to be over.
31 00:02:30.680 ⇒ 00:02:33.999 Uttam Kumaran: And then next week you’re gonna be like, damn! I wish I could get out of New York.
32 00:02:36.785 ⇒ 00:02:37.110 Robert Tseng: No.
33 00:02:37.110 ⇒ 00:02:44.899 Robert Tseng: I’ll be restless after a month, but I think I’ll I’m you know. Amsterdam’s not my favorite place is basically.
34 00:02:44.900 ⇒ 00:02:47.610 Uttam Kumaran: Tell me about it. What is it? I haven’t been there.
35 00:02:48.150 ⇒ 00:02:55.140 Robert Tseng: It’s a i mean, it’s it’s a cute town, but it’s like it’s not for young people, I think, like
36 00:02:55.710 ⇒ 00:03:05.050 Robert Tseng: you know, it’s it’s got canals running through the the town. It’s everything is built on a swamp. So think the buildings are sinking and like tilting over kind of thing. So.
37 00:03:05.430 ⇒ 00:03:05.920 Uttam Kumaran: Awesome.
38 00:03:05.920 ⇒ 00:03:12.860 Robert Tseng: I’ll send you guys. I’ll send some photos in the fun and random. But yeah, it’s kind of funny. So the but the buildings are like falling over
39 00:03:13.590 ⇒ 00:03:14.500 Uttam Kumaran: Interesting.
40 00:03:14.500 ⇒ 00:03:20.549 Robert Tseng: I don’t think they should have built a town here, but I mean it was a popular port city like back in the 16 hundreds. So
41 00:03:21.482 ⇒ 00:03:24.917 Robert Tseng: it’s good if you like, art and history and stuff. But
42 00:03:25.410 ⇒ 00:03:29.070 Robert Tseng: other than that, it’s that’s kind of a kind of a sleepy town.
43 00:03:30.060 ⇒ 00:03:34.169 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people just say how like, because there’s so many cultures, but
44 00:03:34.650 ⇒ 00:03:42.730 Uttam Kumaran: like a part, the only like people that tell me about it just are like, Oh, you can just do all these drugs, and I’m like, is there anything else to do? There.
45 00:03:42.730 ⇒ 00:03:43.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah.
46 00:03:44.240 ⇒ 00:03:51.499 Robert Tseng: Well, legal legal marijuana for a while. Legal prostitution, since I don’t know. Like 30 years ago. So
47 00:03:52.720 ⇒ 00:03:57.370 Robert Tseng: just where people come to, I guess, experience their culture. So.
48 00:03:58.340 ⇒ 00:03:59.100 Uttam Kumaran: That’s funny.
49 00:04:00.480 ⇒ 00:04:01.110 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
50 00:04:01.400 ⇒ 00:04:01.990 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
51 00:04:04.040 ⇒ 00:04:09.860 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. So yeah, maybe a waste. Do you wanna kind of kick it off? I mean, I sent some notes. We talked a little bit last week.
52 00:04:10.301 ⇒ 00:04:13.569 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, maybe if you want to go ahead and we can chat.
53 00:04:16.320 ⇒ 00:04:21.789 Awaish Kumar: Oh, sonny, yeah, I like, don’t have any
54 00:04:22.160 ⇒ 00:04:33.069 Awaish Kumar: like agenda like we. You said we wanted to discuss about the salary and the promotion announcement and other
55 00:04:33.340 ⇒ 00:04:41.129 Awaish Kumar: things. But yeah, like, I haven’t like 3 made any document for that.
56 00:04:42.220 ⇒ 00:04:45.870 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s fine, I think on my end. Yeah, I mean, I think.
57 00:04:45.980 ⇒ 00:04:46.720 Awaish Kumar: 30 days.
58 00:04:46.720 ⇒ 00:04:50.389 Uttam Kumaran: So or so we talked about to hand off a couple.
59 00:04:50.390 ⇒ 00:05:04.539 Uttam Kumaran: and I from my perspective, I think you’ve you’ve crushed it. You not only own the data platform work you’ve taken on, you know, sort of managing engineers. And and for the most part I think everybody seems
60 00:05:04.800 ⇒ 00:05:07.740 Uttam Kumaran: pretty content, not sort of problems.
61 00:05:08.346 ⇒ 00:05:13.340 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve also appreciated having you as part of like the management team.
62 00:05:13.804 ⇒ 00:05:26.180 Uttam Kumaran: So I don’t know. I think that my reflections are all, you know, really positive. We can kind of talk about next steps. But maybe, Robert, if you have any feedback or anything in particular.
63 00:05:27.310 ⇒ 00:05:48.820 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think I agree. I think. I think since our conversation definitely have seen you all over. Yeah, just, you know, really being being more of a leader in in Brainforge. So appreciate your contributions everywhere. And yeah, I think I think this is this is a well deserved kind of conversation that we’re having.
64 00:05:49.650 ⇒ 00:06:00.269 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I I agree. I think, I think for me, it’s always it’s always. I’m always really nervous, you know, because we’ve had people in the past who have. We’ve tried to
65 00:06:00.660 ⇒ 00:06:10.850 Uttam Kumaran: have take more ownership, and it’s been difficult. So like, I really feel like with you, we’ve been able to trust you as a as a real big partner, and I think
66 00:06:11.306 ⇒ 00:06:32.830 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I’m glad that it’s clear that you can see that there’s a home for you. And like all the stuff you have to offer, not just engineering work, but also managing people, also helping on our data platform, also helping on like sales and stuff. And so I think, hopefully, we’ve sort of lived up to a lot of what we said initially. I know it’s
67 00:06:32.960 ⇒ 00:06:35.395 Uttam Kumaran: it’s been up and down, but I think
68 00:06:36.230 ⇒ 00:06:43.360 Uttam Kumaran: like it’s been really nice to sort of have you on our side? And so yeah, I guess any thoughts there, or
69 00:06:43.490 ⇒ 00:06:47.980 Uttam Kumaran: feedback, even even any feedback for us. I know we talk as a.
70 00:06:49.400 ⇒ 00:06:53.180 Awaish Kumar: No, it has been really nice, as I’m
71 00:06:53.460 ⇒ 00:06:59.989 Awaish Kumar: like I have now that you have included me in a lot of other things. I have lots of things to
72 00:07:00.220 ⇒ 00:07:01.050 Awaish Kumar: do.
73 00:07:03.250 ⇒ 00:07:11.489 Awaish Kumar: I can like, I work on technical things. But I can also learn about people manage and management techniques and
74 00:07:13.560 ⇒ 00:07:19.379 Awaish Kumar: like, build, build the meetings, and how to lead the project, or a meeting, or
75 00:07:19.480 ⇒ 00:07:27.109 Awaish Kumar: convince somebody, or motivate someone to to, so that he can finish the task on the time.
76 00:07:27.370 ⇒ 00:07:35.199 Awaish Kumar: So I’ve been like learning on both ends. And it has been really nice, like, also, in terms of engineering side.
77 00:07:35.530 ⇒ 00:07:42.139 Awaish Kumar: there was a lot of things like like in a in some other companies. I might have learned some
78 00:07:42.620 ⇒ 00:07:55.570 Awaish Kumar: one or 2 or 3 tools and and stick to them for life here, like, there’s a lot of room for learning new new tools and technologies. So yeah, I love that
79 00:07:55.750 ⇒ 00:07:56.680 Awaish Kumar: ping you.
80 00:07:57.350 ⇒ 00:07:59.800 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I hope it’s felt that you’re able to use like
81 00:08:00.160 ⇒ 00:08:03.620 Uttam Kumaran: your full brain. I mean, I feel like we do a lot of work. I think
82 00:08:03.840 ⇒ 00:08:26.650 Uttam Kumaran: things will naturally slow a little bit, which I actually think is good over time. But I also I think that yeah, for you. When we talked. I think you had an interest in doing technology work, doing management work. And I can see that you’re very curious person. I can tell even from that, you, because you have a you know background in higher Ed, that like.
83 00:08:27.000 ⇒ 00:08:38.099 Uttam Kumaran: I think, the way we, we try to do things which is like heavy on writing. Trying to read and like have conversations, is is really conducive versus. You know, I’ve been part of a lot of teams where it’s like
84 00:08:38.549 ⇒ 00:08:57.370 Uttam Kumaran: so super sporadic and like people are just firing off the cuff. I actually think your your demeanor and the way you operate is like really conducive. So I feel like, as long as you’re like yo, this is still a great place to be like we’re gonna continue to lean on you as as we grow.
85 00:08:58.040 ⇒ 00:09:00.469 Uttam Kumaran: So yeah, I think, maybe, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
86 00:09:01.050 ⇒ 00:09:04.890 Awaish Kumar: I like I wanted to see like have the same
87 00:09:05.290 ⇒ 00:09:21.660 Awaish Kumar: like share the same thing like regarding I I mean, when I messaged you message you about this like future job prospects like, I’m not sure. You know, the like market has been really up and down, and I wanted
88 00:09:21.770 ⇒ 00:09:35.089 Awaish Kumar: to have some some stability. So I was really wanted to know, like how that is like, maybe for next years, because if I’m not planning to to go for
89 00:09:35.220 ⇒ 00:09:38.540 Awaish Kumar: masters or do anything, and I want to like.
90 00:09:38.710 ⇒ 00:09:44.379 Awaish Kumar: build myself here. So I like, how do you see that? And
91 00:09:44.970 ⇒ 00:09:50.750 Awaish Kumar: secondly, about the I don’t know how to log things now.
92 00:09:51.040 ⇒ 00:09:59.330 Awaish Kumar: like in the engineering side, you like, I know, like, even if it’s a lot of context switching. I I know I can like manage like, maybe
93 00:09:59.480 ⇒ 00:10:04.960 Awaish Kumar: say, 30 min at minimum for for anything, or have some kind of rules.
94 00:10:05.521 ⇒ 00:10:11.160 Awaish Kumar: And for for some tasks I can see, like I spend 1 h, 2 h, 3 h.
95 00:10:12.210 ⇒ 00:10:14.169 Awaish Kumar: but like now, when you are
96 00:10:14.540 ⇒ 00:10:23.970 Awaish Kumar: moving, talk, talking to people, then building the document for something, then moving to other. I don’t know how you want me to log all these different things.
97 00:10:25.360 ⇒ 00:10:31.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think. One. I I do think that we should. We should definitely consider like
98 00:10:32.503 ⇒ 00:10:43.479 Uttam Kumaran: a full time offer. And maybe you know me and you could discuss I mean, I I think over time, and I don’t know, Robert, how you feel about the entire management team, but
99 00:10:43.720 ⇒ 00:10:52.730 Uttam Kumaran: I do think that some people will still be in client facing mode. But I also think that probably sooner than later, Awaii will
100 00:10:53.100 ⇒ 00:11:02.399 Uttam Kumaran: like move to more of just tech lead. And then also just start to manage people. And maybe there’s a time where you’re not directly assigned to like specific client work.
101 00:11:02.853 ⇒ 00:11:07.099 Uttam Kumaran: That’s kind of like. If I had to predict the direction. But
102 00:11:07.260 ⇒ 00:11:19.091 Uttam Kumaran: it’s sort of an open conversation we should all have together. I don’t think we’ve thought that far, just because this is the 1st time we’ve even had another row of of people to support us.
103 00:11:19.730 ⇒ 00:11:28.220 Uttam Kumaran: so I think it’s a decision we should make as a group. I think you know I don’t. I don’t see time that soon where amber sort of moves off client work.
104 00:11:28.584 ⇒ 00:11:37.305 Uttam Kumaran: But for you, now that we have people. I wonder if it’s more if it saves more a tech lead, and then at some point it it sort of grows from there.
105 00:11:37.890 ⇒ 00:11:42.850 Uttam Kumaran: I do think that there is gonna be a lot of like actual management and architecture work as well.
106 00:11:43.470 ⇒ 00:11:49.580 Uttam Kumaran: That stuff, of course, is like, as I mentioned, I may have mentioned yesterday that we’re either working on clients
107 00:11:49.700 ⇒ 00:11:52.889 Uttam Kumaran: we’re selling or we’re working on the business right? So
108 00:11:53.010 ⇒ 00:11:57.610 Uttam Kumaran: I think everybody has a choice, I think, for me and Robert. A lot of it is on sales.
109 00:11:57.800 ⇒ 00:11:58.819 Uttam Kumaran: and then
110 00:11:58.930 ⇒ 00:12:09.780 Uttam Kumaran: I’m working a lot on the on the business and then still working on clients. Robert is also working on the business, working on clients, so I think we will. Our time needs to go way more towards
111 00:12:09.900 ⇒ 00:12:16.624 Uttam Kumaran: working on the business and sales. So really like the faster we didn’t have the client work.
112 00:12:17.190 ⇒ 00:12:33.230 Uttam Kumaran: basically like for my lenses, our goal is to sort of get the client work and execution on rails. But also there’s different components, right? There’s a project management. There’s the tech lead. There’s the actual engineering. There’s sort of the account executive work.
113 00:12:34.410 ⇒ 00:12:41.209 Uttam Kumaran: And so I think we’ll have to determine as a management team like where everyone’s time is going. I think it would be helpful
114 00:12:41.300 ⇒ 00:13:07.310 Uttam Kumaran: for us to even hear from you about like how you’ve been spending time in different areas, and where even you think the highest leverage stuff is because I know you’ve been working with directly with engineers. I know you also take on tasks as well. Of course we have our management work and our planning and stuff like that. So yeah, just even curious from your side, where you think the highest leverage is right now.
115 00:13:10.090 ⇒ 00:13:13.140 Awaish Kumar: Like highest leverage in terms of.
116 00:13:13.920 ⇒ 00:13:20.149 Uttam Kumaran: Like impact probably impact to the business. I mean, if I had to guess it’s probably on coaching people right? Because.
117 00:13:20.510 ⇒ 00:13:24.009 Uttam Kumaran: you know, I sent. I sent a I sent a note into the
118 00:13:24.110 ⇒ 00:13:32.009 Uttam Kumaran: project management channel. And look, Kyle and Luke are pretty under allocated right now.
119 00:13:32.250 ⇒ 00:13:40.619 Uttam Kumaran: And so, my inkling there is that okay? Like, who’s take like, we should probably need to move, work off your plate onto them.
120 00:13:40.840 ⇒ 00:13:46.869 Uttam Kumaran: and then you move into more of like coaching them, or like working with them on, you know, side by side.
121 00:13:48.080 ⇒ 00:13:56.370 Uttam Kumaran: Your time is much better served working as a mentor to everybody, and then taking, and then, of course, taking on like tech lead, related stuff.
122 00:13:57.470 ⇒ 00:14:00.730 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like that. I see.
123 00:14:00.850 ⇒ 00:14:08.490 Awaish Kumar: like the tech lead related things like, as a matter more, we have an example, the architecture and the
124 00:14:09.220 ⇒ 00:14:14.820 Awaish Kumar: like the like. There’s there is a like we can. I can
125 00:14:15.100 ⇒ 00:14:24.199 Awaish Kumar: spend time there like, maybe define like helping amber after she has some roadmap or priorities from the client
126 00:14:24.550 ⇒ 00:14:30.680 Awaish Kumar: and then converting them to technical requirements and setting up the infrastructure.
127 00:14:30.800 ⇒ 00:14:35.759 Awaish Kumar: And also like, maybe we have the call today. So things like that.
128 00:14:36.350 ⇒ 00:14:39.010 Awaish Kumar: So these are places where, like.
129 00:14:39.500 ⇒ 00:14:42.040 Awaish Kumar: I can utilize my time to like.
130 00:14:42.540 ⇒ 00:14:47.379 Awaish Kumar: think about architecture and the execution plans.
131 00:14:47.880 ⇒ 00:14:51.500 Awaish Kumar: Oh, oh, but it’s yeah like.
132 00:14:51.900 ⇒ 00:14:59.030 Awaish Kumar: And and obviously like coaching team members to, so they are not blocked by anything.
133 00:14:59.420 ⇒ 00:15:01.079 Awaish Kumar: at least the finish line.
134 00:15:02.520 ⇒ 00:15:06.829 Awaish Kumar: Apart from that, like, I still would love to stay
135 00:15:07.360 ⇒ 00:15:12.939 Awaish Kumar: maybe on internal work, like to to work some technical things. So I’m not our
136 00:15:13.080 ⇒ 00:15:19.089 Awaish Kumar: like what to say. I’m not just like out of the during.
137 00:15:19.090 ⇒ 00:15:23.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I don’t think there’s gonna be a shortage of like random stuff. I think it’s more of like.
138 00:15:24.040 ⇒ 00:15:26.609 Uttam Kumaran: what what is our direction that we’re heading
139 00:15:26.840 ⇒ 00:15:42.799 Uttam Kumaran: like, I still think we’re gonna have a bunch of work on data platform. And again, data platform at this company is much different than other companies. It’s like enabling our engineers speeding up our time to value. It’s work on. How do we do pre sales like showing clients what they’re gonna get
140 00:15:43.040 ⇒ 00:15:45.140 Uttam Kumaran: evaluating new vendors.
141 00:15:45.260 ⇒ 00:15:48.030 Uttam Kumaran: So I that stuff like it’s gonna be just.
142 00:15:48.380 ⇒ 00:15:49.010 Awaish Kumar: Probably gonna.
143 00:15:49.010 ⇒ 00:15:52.660 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just 3 of us right? There’s like, no, there’s nobody else that’s gonna be doing that.
144 00:15:52.660 ⇒ 00:15:53.990 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah.
145 00:15:53.990 ⇒ 00:16:00.539 Uttam Kumaran: I would rather your your per hour leverage. It’s much better served, I think, in like
146 00:16:01.210 ⇒ 00:16:09.150 Uttam Kumaran: coaching, or an enabling versus just taking on another few hours of tasks, you know.
147 00:16:09.360 ⇒ 00:16:13.319 Uttam Kumaran: So that would be my recommendation like that. We try to push forward for this next.
148 00:16:13.320 ⇒ 00:16:22.690 Awaish Kumar: I agree with you like, I’m not. I’m saying in terms of maybe, like, maybe, like.
149 00:16:22.900 ⇒ 00:16:35.050 Awaish Kumar: like in data, internal data, like when we have data platform. We acquire new tool, maybe initially, or something like maybe 5 HA week, or something like spend some tech on technical work.
150 00:16:35.210 ⇒ 00:16:42.700 Awaish Kumar: But more broadly. It’s more about enabling people sure.
151 00:16:46.934 ⇒ 00:16:48.889 Uttam Kumaran: Cool. I don’t know. Yeah, Robert, go ahead.
152 00:16:48.890 ⇒ 00:16:49.585 Robert Tseng: Yeah,
153 00:16:50.670 ⇒ 00:16:55.889 Robert Tseng: So I mean, I’m just thinking, hell, yeah, loud. So I mean, there are.
154 00:16:59.200 ⇒ 00:17:01.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think I just better would.
155 00:17:01.690 ⇒ 00:17:07.600 Robert Tseng: I mean, I wish is still pretty embedded in Eden right now. And actually, I see, is like
156 00:17:07.930 ⇒ 00:17:10.359 Robert Tseng: this. Work may increase even.
157 00:17:10.670 ⇒ 00:17:17.140 Uttam Kumaran: I know that was gonna I knew that was gonna come up. But yeah, I mean, I, this is where, like, I, yeah, we should discuss.
158 00:17:17.319 ⇒ 00:17:25.099 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah. So which is fine. If you don’t want to do it, I mean, I just think like a way I mean the biggest thing to me. A wish is like.
159 00:17:25.594 ⇒ 00:17:33.789 Robert Tseng: I you know, I introduce you to the Emr team like they’re moving systems. That’s like a huge migration. And you’re kind of like, pretty much being tech lead on like
160 00:17:33.899 ⇒ 00:18:03.849 Robert Tseng: what you know, assuming they’re moving off of their legacy system like, what does that look like for us, like on the data side, moving forward. So I mean, I didn’t get to it this week. But conversations that I’m trying to have with you there, like we have a we’re kind of having to map out the data platform of Eden at this point. Do we keep segment? Do we cut segment. Assuming we move off Basque. And we’re going to the Emr like, what does that actually look like? So that’s to me that’s pretty big work that’s like really high
161 00:18:04.389 ⇒ 00:18:10.429 Robert Tseng: high impact strategic work on that client. So I’m trying to keep you out of like the
162 00:18:10.749 ⇒ 00:18:32.539 Robert Tseng: random requests. And anything that’s more, I guess, and Annie can handle it. But where we where I need your expertise on things if you’ve already like. Obviously, you built a lot of the models, and you know some of these domains a bit better. So that’s where I’m trying to tap you in more. But yeah, as far as like how much time you spend there and like
163 00:18:32.759 ⇒ 00:18:44.229 Robert Tseng: whether you want. I don’t think we’ve really talked. If you if that’s if you’re aware that that’s what’s happening. And you’re okay with that, and how that’ll eat into like your time elsewhere. So I don’t know what your thoughts there.
164 00:18:48.159 ⇒ 00:18:56.570 Awaish Kumar: Like, right now, I’ve been managing like spending maybe 15 to 20 h, maybe on eating God.
165 00:18:56.780 ⇒ 00:18:59.729 Awaish Kumar: and like then maybe
166 00:19:00.090 ⇒ 00:19:09.750 Awaish Kumar: some 10 to 15, also on, like on the data platform and managing that, and some time on general. Other things.
167 00:19:09.930 ⇒ 00:19:10.430 Awaish Kumar: Wow!
168 00:19:10.430 ⇒ 00:19:10.880 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
169 00:19:11.465 ⇒ 00:19:12.050 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.
170 00:19:13.560 ⇒ 00:19:14.339 Robert Tseng: Is that?
171 00:19:14.340 ⇒ 00:19:18.720 Robert Tseng: Does that sound like a good split? Or do you want? How do? How do you want that to be reallocated?
172 00:19:19.720 ⇒ 00:19:25.489 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, it depends on like. Previously I only had the
173 00:19:25.710 ⇒ 00:19:33.380 Awaish Kumar: edient client and some other work. But now there are some other things which are coming up like
174 00:19:34.070 ⇒ 00:19:43.879 Awaish Kumar: new clients which are coming in like, I’ve got the metamor. Maybe, like we, we design something for the default, which is new new client.
175 00:19:44.060 ⇒ 00:19:56.570 Awaish Kumar: So I don’t know, like I have to spend time there. So maybe I will be spending less time on it in them, or maybe less time on data platform like where we cut that. It depends.
176 00:19:57.130 ⇒ 00:20:12.299 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I would like, I think the data platform gets cut 1st out of everything like the client work. The client work is paramount, and I’ll keep making that clear. I think the second thing is like any sort of junior de or Junior ae work we should hand off.
177 00:20:12.540 ⇒ 00:20:24.249 Uttam Kumaran: That’s that. I guess that’s more of my point is, I don’t think you should leave a tech lead. I actually think on more clients you should take over for me as like tech lead. And we can meet together about like
178 00:20:24.530 ⇒ 00:20:33.360 Uttam Kumaran: like me, you and Dev. A lot you can meet about like what are architecture decisions. We’re making things like that. So that’s something that I would like to hand off, which is like
179 00:20:33.470 ⇒ 00:20:49.850 Uttam Kumaran: people being a tech lead. So I can move into more of the account. Exact roles on a lot of these clients. So even for Eden, like, I think you should still own that Emr work. But you should have another engineer that you basically are like, here’s all the things that need to happen.
180 00:20:50.400 ⇒ 00:21:04.580 Uttam Kumaran: Right? And you are. You are the delivery. And you’re the Qa. And you’re Pr reviewing. And you can take on the top most important tasks or stuff that falls, which is a lot of what I do on clients right where I’m like.
181 00:21:04.700 ⇒ 00:21:29.770 Uttam Kumaran: I’m just coming in when it’s like really necessary. Eden is a good example of where, now that we have them a lot. And, Annie, if you’re like, Hey, this Emr thing is going to be a big basket of work. I want to focus on architecture and making sure to spend time with stakeholders. And then you want another junior person, or you want to loop in someone to take on the tasks themselves. That’s where I think it’s it’s you’re more high, highly leveraged.
182 00:21:31.020 ⇒ 00:21:33.030 Robert Tseng: Yeah, hear that?
183 00:21:33.360 ⇒ 00:21:53.469 Uttam Kumaran: And we can meet. Talk about like what is segment versus this? I can give you the lowdown on how to do vendor like, how to work with vendors. Procurement like how to how to like work on tasks. That’s the stuff that I wanna get out of my head and and give to you and give to them a lot and give to the folks that are gonna be at that next rung
184 00:21:53.530 ⇒ 00:22:09.549 Uttam Kumaran: because the junior people they’re not gonna have the mind state to to absorb that they still need to be just getting must getting reps in on tasks. So like for Kyle, Annie and Luke, I want them to be like 80% allocated towards tasks.
185 00:22:09.640 ⇒ 00:22:14.459 Uttam Kumaran: And then I want us to work on sort of like leveling up the tech lead
186 00:22:14.780 ⇒ 00:22:21.430 Uttam Kumaran: the architecture work, and then that way I can move completely to like renewal, and then also.
187 00:22:21.430 ⇒ 00:22:23.789 Uttam Kumaran: So again, just keep working on sales in the company.
188 00:22:25.850 ⇒ 00:22:26.710 Awaish Kumar: Okay. Yeah.
189 00:22:26.710 ⇒ 00:22:55.269 Uttam Kumaran: You stepped in, and for me as part of that. So that’s that’s really good. And again, other thing is like for you and for you to work directly with the Pm. Team on like, how does that relationship work? Like all of us, are there basically to maximize, the labor of which is the the Junior and and Mid Level Engineers, right like to give them the best odds of succeeding on their tickets. And so that’s where I feel like is our big, old, biggest bottleneck, because we do have hours for more people.
190 00:22:55.675 ⇒ 00:23:03.309 Uttam Kumaran: Like Kyle and Luke have more hours, and we just want to give more of that work away to them and for us to structure.
191 00:23:03.710 ⇒ 00:23:07.530 Awaish Kumar: Like the higher level conversations and work towards expanding these clients. More
192 00:23:11.600 ⇒ 00:23:12.100 Awaish Kumar: okay.
193 00:23:12.100 ⇒ 00:23:17.819 Uttam Kumaran: So whatever that means for Eden, whatever that means for madam, or we can talk client to client. But
194 00:23:18.300 ⇒ 00:23:22.099 Uttam Kumaran: like that’s what I. What I would say is more important, like
195 00:23:22.952 ⇒ 00:23:36.849 Uttam Kumaran: and I can play like CTO, or whatever where it’s like I’m I can help you make any decisions. For example, if you’re talking to the client, and you’re like, Hey, I don’t know exactly to make this architecture decision, or how should we do this? We can run through those scenarios together.
196 00:23:37.110 ⇒ 00:23:42.779 Uttam Kumaran: But that gives me again one higher level view versus like having to be in those meetings.
197 00:23:42.970 ⇒ 00:23:47.839 Uttam Kumaran: We can meet on a weekly basis as a tech leads or whatever and discuss.
198 00:23:50.810 ⇒ 00:23:53.299 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I agree with with that.
199 00:23:54.720 ⇒ 00:23:55.350 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
200 00:23:58.860 ⇒ 00:23:59.179 Robert Tseng: Bye.
201 00:24:00.450 ⇒ 00:24:06.389 Robert Tseng: yeah. So I guess, like the thing to, I want to clear up. So yeah, obviously, you’re gonna hopefully start to think about that
202 00:24:06.680 ⇒ 00:24:14.429 Robert Tseng: with, you know now that you’re part of more strategic conversations on the Eden side and like you get to think about like what?
203 00:24:14.800 ⇒ 00:24:15.580 Robert Tseng: So
204 00:24:15.770 ⇒ 00:24:25.909 Robert Tseng: size of the work looks like. And you, Tom, can help you like kind of figure out who you can tap to execute on it. You’re doing that, for matter more, too, like that is like more of a tech lead role.
205 00:24:27.560 ⇒ 00:24:34.179 Robert Tseng: I mean, yeah, even with a couple of the new clients that I’ve started with with like, read me, and also with
206 00:24:35.330 ⇒ 00:24:36.210 Uttam Kumaran: Bark.
207 00:24:37.330 ⇒ 00:24:38.470 Robert Tseng: Spark, plug.
208 00:24:39.215 ⇒ 00:24:40.940 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, those.
209 00:24:41.050 ⇒ 00:24:47.299 Robert Tseng: You know, within a week or 2 weeks I’m gonna be ready to bring in the spring in either. I mean.
210 00:24:47.600 ⇒ 00:24:52.380 Robert Tseng: I’ve kind of just defaulted to adding a waste to any new client at this point, so.
211 00:24:52.380 ⇒ 00:24:58.639 Uttam Kumaran: Fine demode, I think, is the next person for us to kind of tee up into this role like, I’m going to talk to him a bit more.
212 00:24:58.640 ⇒ 00:24:59.280 Robert Tseng: Okay.
213 00:24:59.490 ⇒ 00:25:01.809 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think he’s as interested in like
214 00:25:02.400 ⇒ 00:25:07.579 Uttam Kumaran: owning people management, but he is interested in owning more technical, so we will have like a
215 00:25:07.760 ⇒ 00:25:12.970 Uttam Kumaran: like a way. We’ll do like a guild, or something like technical excellence, or something between the 3 of us.
216 00:25:13.080 ⇒ 00:25:22.530 Uttam Kumaran: where we just meet and talk about how to how to do a tech lead right so. But I but again, I think between you and Demote, those are the 2 folks that I nominate for
217 00:25:23.020 ⇒ 00:25:25.870 Uttam Kumaran: for any, for any data project to act as technically.
218 00:25:27.440 ⇒ 00:25:28.100 Robert Tseng: Okay.
219 00:25:28.470 ⇒ 00:25:32.320 Uttam Kumaran: But there! But again, you guys are, there’s not. You’re never. Gonna you’re not gonna know everything. That’s just it.
220 00:25:32.630 ⇒ 00:25:34.010 Uttam Kumaran: So like.
221 00:25:34.010 ⇒ 00:25:52.540 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’s why we should have a conversation, because I will start to translate a lot of what I know about how these projects are run. It’s all flavors of data, but I think between a wish and I should act as tech lead on everything. I think you’re still acting as engineering manager, and our only sort of engineering manager right now. I’m the one.
222 00:25:52.790 ⇒ 00:25:53.550 Awaish Kumar: 19.
223 00:25:54.240 ⇒ 00:25:58.520 Uttam Kumaran: So I think the next probably biggest decision to make is like
224 00:25:59.350 ⇒ 00:26:02.579 Uttam Kumaran: and engineering management versus tech lead work.
225 00:26:04.410 ⇒ 00:26:11.020 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think it’s probably still sustainable for for a bit longer, like probably one more quarter, but I think.
226 00:26:12.014 ⇒ 00:26:13.009 Awaish Kumar: Like.
227 00:26:13.340 ⇒ 00:26:15.280 Uttam Kumaran: Like solutions, architect
228 00:26:15.790 ⇒ 00:26:26.209 Uttam Kumaran: versus engineering management, right? Or or we’ll have to decide on like what that mix is whether it’s like 80, 20. And then, okay, we need to like, I need to start pushing someone else into that role.
229 00:26:26.420 ⇒ 00:26:31.090 Uttam Kumaran: Right? I think, for now it’s fine, like, we only have a few people. Everyone’s pretty easy. No one
230 00:26:31.450 ⇒ 00:26:32.549 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna choose.
231 00:26:32.660 ⇒ 00:26:35.360 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s probably the next thing for me.
232 00:26:36.250 ⇒ 00:26:45.549 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah. So in terms of like the responsibility you said, like as engineering manager.
233 00:26:45.900 ⇒ 00:26:49.029 Awaish Kumar: like, the split is like 2080. Right?
234 00:26:50.370 ⇒ 00:26:57.869 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean, I still think client work and executing client work is what matters right now. So growing revenue, executing client work is is
235 00:26:58.240 ⇒ 00:27:07.600 Uttam Kumaran: cause at at the end of the day. Worst case I can take over for the engineering management. But I can’t take over for the client execution. It’d be really, really tough.
236 00:27:08.300 ⇒ 00:27:14.439 Uttam Kumaran: So if you have to, if you have to make a decision or bias like, I would bias towards executing the client work.
237 00:27:16.115 ⇒ 00:27:16.510 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
238 00:27:16.510 ⇒ 00:27:19.239 Uttam Kumaran: But again, this is gonna be something we have to calibrate like.
239 00:27:19.490 ⇒ 00:27:24.219 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t want to necessarily go to the market to find someone who’s just an engineering manager?
240 00:27:24.973 ⇒ 00:27:31.309 Uttam Kumaran: So either we will promote with within, or when we go look for new people, we’ll make sure that
241 00:27:31.500 ⇒ 00:27:34.319 Uttam Kumaran: their understanding that there’s going to be some splits like
242 00:27:34.480 ⇒ 00:27:39.150 Uttam Kumaran: people who are solution architects that also some of their time is going to be split towards engineering management
243 00:27:39.370 ⇒ 00:27:44.990 Uttam Kumaran: like, I don’t think demo Lotti would be opposed to it. I think he would just need help in navigating that right so.
244 00:27:45.130 ⇒ 00:27:48.240 Uttam Kumaran: But we’ll we’ll we’ll have to figure that out as a group.
245 00:27:54.080 ⇒ 00:28:00.300 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. So, Aisha, I’ll I’ll chat with you about full time. Give me like.
246 00:28:00.640 ⇒ 00:28:15.999 Uttam Kumaran: give me today and tomorrow to sort of. Think about it. And I’ll get back to you with a proposal. And then, yeah, let’s I’ll we’ll also DM you. After this the manager’s channel. We can talk about putting together like a tech lead weekly or something
247 00:28:16.140 ⇒ 00:28:20.000 Uttam Kumaran: with like me, you and Damalade just to talk about like architecture.
248 00:28:20.110 ⇒ 00:28:27.297 Uttam Kumaran: vendor decisions procurement like managing Pm expectations stuff like that. I think that’ll be a good meeting.
249 00:28:28.290 ⇒ 00:28:32.659 Uttam Kumaran: and then, yeah, I think you’re gonna get thrown into the fire a little bit on a bunch of these new clients.
250 00:28:32.850 ⇒ 00:28:33.740 Uttam Kumaran: But like
251 00:28:34.430 ⇒ 00:28:48.509 Uttam Kumaran: that, you know, that’s that’s what that’s what it is. That’s that’s what we hope for. So like, I’m really happy. We have, like, you know, about 2 that are that are looking really good. This default call should be really good. And like
252 00:28:48.960 ⇒ 00:28:52.860 Uttam Kumaran: we’re, we’re gonna it’s it’s never gonna feel like we’re appropriately staffed
253 00:28:52.990 ⇒ 00:28:56.259 Uttam Kumaran: for a while. So like that’s not the goal
254 00:28:56.797 ⇒ 00:29:04.100 Uttam Kumaran: but we want to look a little bit ahead. So it’s gonna be stress. It’s like that. I can’t lie about that. But
255 00:29:04.220 ⇒ 00:29:12.090 Uttam Kumaran: like, I think we’re feeling the pressure on the Pm side, and we’re feeling the pressure on the tech lead side. So I’m glad that we’re having this conversation now.
256 00:29:12.360 ⇒ 00:29:23.159 Uttam Kumaran: and we’ll see again like as if we have client demand we can make. We can make hiring decisions. We don’t have client client demand. And it’s really hard to do anything right? So
257 00:29:23.920 ⇒ 00:29:27.879 Uttam Kumaran: 1st thing we want to correct in our overall behavior is that like
258 00:29:28.510 ⇒ 00:29:31.510 Uttam Kumaran: new clients come in and like, that’s first, st
259 00:29:31.770 ⇒ 00:29:39.870 Uttam Kumaran: and then it should be a real tough conversation between our management crew. If we make a hire like. That’s how you’re gonna see? My.
260 00:29:40.030 ⇒ 00:29:44.357 Uttam Kumaran: I wasn’t like that before, just because we had like, really had nobody.
261 00:29:45.030 ⇒ 00:29:49.810 Uttam Kumaran: but I think we’ll be really fighting for every new hire to make sure it’s something we really need.
262 00:29:50.000 ⇒ 00:29:54.729 Uttam Kumaran: And I think as a crew, we’ll also start to think about goals and stuff like that. So
263 00:29:55.122 ⇒ 00:30:05.870 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, that’s probably it for mine. And then I I would love to make a formal announcement on Friday to everybody. So I will do that. I I need to confirm. If we’re gonna do the Friday meeting or not.
264 00:30:06.150 ⇒ 00:30:10.720 Uttam Kumaran: If we do, I’ll I’ll do it there. If we’re not, I’ll do it in slack, and I’ll and I’ll send some notes to you.
265 00:30:11.820 ⇒ 00:30:16.009 Awaish Kumar: Okay, sure. And I will not be there. Just so, you know.
266 00:30:16.010 ⇒ 00:30:18.552 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s right.
267 00:30:20.430 ⇒ 00:30:21.210 Awaish Kumar: Okay.
268 00:30:22.000 ⇒ 00:30:25.389 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, cool. Guys anything else.
269 00:30:25.390 ⇒ 00:30:25.816 Awaish Kumar: You can.
270 00:30:27.030 ⇒ 00:30:27.710 Awaish Kumar: I mean.
271 00:30:27.710 ⇒ 00:30:28.340 Robert Tseng: Good.
272 00:30:28.810 ⇒ 00:30:29.490 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
273 00:30:29.820 ⇒ 00:30:30.360 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you.
274 00:30:31.070 ⇒ 00:30:32.550 Robert Tseng: Guys, okay? Bye.