Meeting Title: Uttam & Awaish 1<>1 Date: 2025-05-08 Meeting participants: Awaish Kumar, Uttam Kumaran


WEBVTT

1 00:03:53.065 00:03:54.360 Uttam Kumaran: Anyways.

2 00:04:03.905 00:04:04.470 Uttam Kumaran: Hey!

3 00:04:04.470 00:04:05.594 Uttam Kumaran: Can you hear me? Oh.

4 00:04:06.930 00:04:08.229 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I can hear you.

5 00:04:08.710 00:04:12.649 Uttam Kumaran: It’s late. Sorry. I know this meeting’s late. I didn’t know if you’re still up.

6 00:04:13.860 00:04:15.539 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I am the one.

7 00:04:16.329 00:04:17.800 Awaish Kumar: There was a meeting.

8 00:04:19.310 00:04:24.400 Uttam Kumaran: I think what we can, but we can. Next week. I think we’ll do. We could do it early.

9 00:04:24.620 00:04:26.850 Uttam Kumaran: like in the morning, sometime, for sure.

10 00:04:28.394 00:04:30.049 Awaish Kumar: Yeah. Sure. No worries.

11 00:04:30.300 00:04:31.390 Uttam Kumaran: How’s everything?

12 00:04:32.903 00:04:34.169 Awaish Kumar: All good.

13 00:04:34.860 00:04:36.337 Awaish Kumar: Everything’s going good.

14 00:04:37.510 00:04:42.770 Awaish Kumar: I’ve been recently working with it moving data data to supervis.

15 00:04:42.910 00:04:45.999 Awaish Kumar: Just got a quick escalation from Michael.

16 00:04:46.550 00:04:48.630 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, right?

17 00:04:49.740 00:04:50.230 Awaish Kumar: No.

18 00:04:50.230 00:04:54.080 Uttam Kumaran: This this week has been this weekend has been, you know, really positive. I feel like we.

19 00:04:54.230 00:04:56.000 Uttam Kumaran: I’m really happy, like

20 00:04:56.370 00:05:03.309 Uttam Kumaran: seeing the progress from you. On on taking like leadership on a lot of the things you mentioned last week. So

21 00:05:04.075 00:05:05.560 Uttam Kumaran: it’s going great!

22 00:05:11.180 00:05:14.789 Uttam Kumaran: How can I? What can I? What can I be helpful with.

23 00:05:18.140 00:05:22.320 Awaish Kumar: I think so far it has been good. I don’t have any

24 00:05:22.670 00:05:29.989 Awaish Kumar: blockers. I just got a like, I’m read a message from you today. So I’m I’m looking at data platform work. And

25 00:05:30.627 00:05:35.860 Awaish Kumar: I wanted to meet with the team today. But yeah, to like look. And

26 00:05:36.030 00:05:42.086 Awaish Kumar: they were not. They both are off, so maybe I can check in tomorrow. So I know the status, and then I can

27 00:05:42.928 00:05:52.979 Awaish Kumar: maybe try to formal like, standardize it, or maybe make it more in a structure like in a make, execute execution, plan with them.

28 00:05:54.450 00:05:55.360 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Great.

29 00:05:55.690 00:06:01.939 Uttam Kumaran: How was like, how? How was them sort of overall like the management meetings and stuff you felt good about

30 00:06:02.080 00:06:04.929 Uttam Kumaran: feeling good about that, like all the stuff we’re talking about.

31 00:06:07.803 00:06:08.690 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like.

32 00:06:09.749 00:06:16.200 Awaish Kumar: like the things like, I feel good about it, like we are moving in the right direction.

33 00:06:16.380 00:06:24.880 Awaish Kumar: And yeah, yeah, like you’re trying to standardize lots of things. Yeah. So it’s been good.

34 00:06:26.270 00:06:29.030 Awaish Kumar: Tell me, tell me what you’re nervous about.

35 00:06:29.570 00:06:31.109 Uttam Kumaran: If if anything.

36 00:06:37.780 00:06:41.021 Awaish Kumar: I’m not. I. Yeah.

37 00:06:42.120 00:06:50.390 Awaish Kumar: like, I, I’m learning like on a leadership role. I’m I’m quite new to it, like I I can get your and robust help in.

38 00:06:50.680 00:06:53.213 Awaish Kumar: or any suggestions, or any

39 00:06:54.670 00:07:02.020 Awaish Kumar: lectures, or anything you would like me to like, read, or something like that, or any training, something like.

40 00:07:02.020 00:07:02.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

41 00:07:02.480 00:07:03.780 Awaish Kumar: That can be helpful.

42 00:07:04.310 00:07:14.769 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. So tell me, like, tell me, like, what is, how do you like? Sort of like to learn like, are, do you read like books? Or are you more like podcasts like, what do you prefer?

43 00:07:15.320 00:07:18.730 Awaish Kumar: I prefer reading any book, blog anything.

44 00:07:18.990 00:07:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

45 00:07:20.770 00:07:27.880 Awaish Kumar: For these things. Yeah, for more technical things I would like to do. I would like to be hands on. But yeah.

46 00:07:29.100 00:07:33.490 Uttam Kumaran: So I have one. I have one book that I would recommend and

47 00:07:33.810 00:07:40.549 Uttam Kumaran: like, like, are you, are you? Gonna if you if you buy. Will you buy it on Kindle? Because I’m happy to to buy it if you want.

48 00:07:42.520 00:07:47.310 Awaish Kumar: I would buy it, but I don’t know like how I can buy it in Pakistan, so.

49 00:07:47.980 00:07:49.309 Uttam Kumaran: You have a kindle.

50 00:07:50.150 00:07:51.449 Awaish Kumar: I don’t think so.

51 00:07:52.430 00:07:55.040 Uttam Kumaran: We don’t have hours on here.

52 00:07:55.719 00:07:59.119 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, okay. Well, there’s this book called. It’s Your ship.

53 00:08:00.370 00:08:01.430 Uttam Kumaran: Check it out

54 00:08:05.070 00:08:06.809 Uttam Kumaran: its your ship.

55 00:08:08.070 00:08:10.959 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a like this should be this guy, for, like a military guy.

56 00:08:12.710 00:08:14.690 Awaish Kumar: Okay. Ship in the Navy.

57 00:08:15.590 00:08:22.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, very, very good book. This guy was like a navy commander, navy, general.

58 00:08:23.730 00:08:26.010 Awaish Kumar: I don’t get here. I have to

59 00:08:26.180 00:08:30.349 Awaish Kumar: ordered from outside, like from Amazon, or some somewhere.

60 00:08:30.810 00:08:32.085 Uttam Kumaran: But maybe, like

61 00:08:33.350 00:08:37.399 Uttam Kumaran: I think if you get a kindle, reader, you can read it on your machine.

62 00:08:37.980 00:08:40.940 Awaish Kumar: Oh, okay. The digital volume.

63 00:08:41.450 00:08:42.580 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

64 00:08:43.169 00:08:47.899 Uttam Kumaran: Otherwise, I mean, tell me, like, if you end up finding it there or something I can, I’m I’m happy to

65 00:08:48.760 00:08:51.779 Uttam Kumaran: to pay for it, you know.

66 00:08:56.770 00:09:01.829 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I would like, it’s a good book. I think you’ll like it. Yeah.

67 00:09:02.360 00:09:06.880 Awaish Kumar: Hard copy other than otherwise. We can. Just you go with software.

68 00:09:07.330 00:09:08.390 Awaish Kumar: Okay? Perfect.

69 00:09:10.000 00:09:14.510 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And and any like, I feel like that. You know, the best way to sort of talk about

70 00:09:15.070 00:09:19.569 Uttam Kumaran: these leadership questions is sort of do it. Scenario based, like.

71 00:09:19.720 00:09:26.099 Uttam Kumaran: you know, if you’re thinking about making a decision for somebody or or you’re like, Hey, I want to sort of talk through.

72 00:09:26.660 00:09:31.630 Uttam Kumaran: You know this challenge that someone is having. That’s, I think the best thing, because otherwise leadership is

73 00:09:31.820 00:09:45.779 Uttam Kumaran: is about people. Right? And so for me, I think a lot about like when I talk about things. I want to give scenarios right? Like I think a lot about how I we were able to me and you to discuss and find that you were interested in leadership and

74 00:09:45.940 00:09:55.179 Uttam Kumaran: give you that opening. Right? So that’s a great, you know, like scenario to play out. And similarly, as you talk to Annie Kyle, Luke.

75 00:09:55.621 00:10:01.749 Uttam Kumaran: and and beyond, you know, your your job is to sort of think about. Hey? How do I make this person

76 00:10:01.900 00:10:24.399 Uttam Kumaran: activate 100% of their brain and and make sure that they feel proud of what they do and proud of? You know, being part of the company. The other thing to also know is that every all the time people are going to have problems like, it’s gonna be personal. It’s gonna be professional. So the number one thing I feel like and this is again, this is me is, I just assume that like, Hey, my job is to hear and listen.

77 00:10:24.460 00:10:35.389 Uttam Kumaran: and then take action where I can. Right? Because sometimes as a company and we’re growing, we not may not be able to do everything but like we can listen right. And that’s more than a lot of other companies do.

78 00:10:35.630 00:10:42.160 Uttam Kumaran: And so I think a lot about just being just having avenues for people to share their frustrations. Listen!

79 00:10:42.680 00:10:43.869 Uttam Kumaran: Things like that.

80 00:10:44.810 00:10:50.040 Awaish Kumar: Okay, we need to continue these meetings, or it was one of.

81 00:10:51.890 00:10:52.810 Uttam Kumaran: Sorry.

82 00:10:53.620 00:10:57.740 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like these, one on ones like, select.

83 00:10:57.740 00:11:01.789 Uttam Kumaran: I think you should certainly continue them. I mean, I think once a month, I think

84 00:11:01.950 00:11:08.389 Uttam Kumaran: once every I was doing once every 3 weeks, like, I think once every like every other week, or maybe every

85 00:11:10.240 00:11:23.700 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, every other week, or something seems fair. I mean, you can decide like if you you end up at those meetings, there’s nothing to talk about. That’s fine, but I think it’s healthy to make sure you have a pulse, and it’s only a few people now, right? So when it becomes a lot more people

86 00:11:25.520 00:11:27.219 Uttam Kumaran: it may change, but.

87 00:11:29.340 00:11:33.040 Awaish Kumar: Okay, I I can maybe do ones.

88 00:11:33.960 00:11:40.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And and also just to think about what motivates each people. You know, you did a good job of understanding that. But

89 00:11:40.460 00:11:51.710 Uttam Kumaran: you know some, for some people like money may be the biggest motivators for the other people with the work, their flexibility. So just hearing what people have to say, you know.

90 00:11:53.280 00:12:02.030 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah. So far everybody is more concerned about getting something full time roles or.

91 00:12:02.480 00:12:02.860 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

92 00:12:02.860 00:12:04.920 Awaish Kumar: More work, or something like that.

93 00:12:05.350 00:12:06.299 Uttam Kumaran: Which is great.

94 00:12:06.720 00:12:07.330 Awaish Kumar: Yeah.

95 00:12:07.660 00:12:14.019 Awaish Kumar: Otherwise, like the they shared what they what the blockers are and where they want to move.

96 00:12:14.659 00:12:19.290 Awaish Kumar: I, yeah, I settle like one thing I have is

97 00:12:20.420 00:12:23.120 Awaish Kumar: I I haven’t been in those

98 00:12:24.020 00:12:28.770 Awaish Kumar: group meetings, but I like when I was discussing with Amber yesterday

99 00:12:29.235 00:12:35.269 Awaish Kumar: like she mentioned that like she wants to find out the ways to like correct ticket pointing and.

100 00:12:35.790 00:12:36.110 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

101 00:12:36.110 00:12:42.600 Awaish Kumar: Where the engineers are working, like, as they say, something like that.

102 00:12:43.490 00:12:46.349 Awaish Kumar: So that was a like that could be a scenario like

103 00:12:46.905 00:12:49.099 Awaish Kumar: like how to handle this like

104 00:12:49.250 00:12:54.009 Awaish Kumar: like, I don’t know like now you are leading it. But like I’m just taking it as a

105 00:12:54.580 00:13:01.599 Awaish Kumar: I don’t know as a case to discuss like if we are in such a situation, where

106 00:13:02.150 00:13:06.710 Awaish Kumar: like she wanted that if I’m I’m coming to this meeting with somebody

107 00:13:06.850 00:13:17.798 Awaish Kumar: assigns 5 points. I maybe we can like discuss in the meeting to like, okay, no, it’s like a 2 point thing or something like that. I feel it awkward to like

108 00:13:21.370 00:13:24.170 Awaish Kumar: I I like to directly, just

109 00:13:24.908 00:13:30.320 Awaish Kumar: say something like that to make them uncomfortable in front of everyone. I would like to.

110 00:13:30.320 00:13:30.840 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.

111 00:13:30.840 00:13:32.740 Awaish Kumar: Human approach.

112 00:13:34.890 00:13:41.760 Uttam Kumaran: No, that’s a good. That’s a good point. I mean, this is where like for amber, right? And you know, you worked with project managers. They’re always gonna be like.

113 00:13:42.060 00:13:52.479 Uttam Kumaran: you can always say, Oh, this is gonna take too long, or blah blah, like, you know, it happens. And so our job is to help Amber understand whether like that’s accurate

114 00:13:52.670 00:13:56.870 Uttam Kumaran: and like, whether there’s anything we could do to speed it up right like.

115 00:13:57.160 00:14:01.969 Uttam Kumaran: That’s where she needs help is because she may not be equipped 100% to say, like.

116 00:14:02.330 00:14:10.730 Uttam Kumaran: actually, you know, I think you’re overestimating this, or actually, you’re underestimating this right? Because I will tell you. For the most part we’re doing a we’re underestimating a lot of stuff.

117 00:14:11.030 00:14:22.329 Uttam Kumaran: and we are overestimating on some stuff right? But I don’t think anyone’s doing it because they don’t. They like don’t want to work. I think people just like they themselves don’t know how to estimate things right?

118 00:14:23.540 00:14:27.211 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s my question. Like, instead of

119 00:14:28.710 00:14:35.019 Awaish Kumar: like, how would you handle that like? Would you go in like in a in in the same meeting at just

120 00:14:36.770 00:14:40.760 Awaish Kumar: Try try to engage with the person directly in the.

121 00:14:42.840 00:14:43.360 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.

122 00:14:43.360 00:14:47.460 Awaish Kumar: Or like, maybe try to estimate it first.st

123 00:14:47.770 00:14:54.870 Uttam Kumaran: So this is where, like you, you sort of need to get a second opinion right? So commonly. One thing that I do is I will ask.

124 00:14:54.980 00:15:01.279 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll say, how long like I’ll take. Can you? Explain to me how many, how many points this is, and why.

125 00:15:01.440 00:15:17.549 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it right? And that happens in planning. So someone’s like, Oh, this is a 3 point, because it’s gonna take me a day to do this and a day to do that. And then that’s where like for me, I’m like, hey? Why is, that’s the 1st step that’s not really a day right? That should be like an hour. They’re like, Oh, yeah, you’re right.

126 00:15:17.830 00:15:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it. That’s usually what it is.

127 00:15:21.790 00:15:25.739 Uttam Kumaran: So part of it is. Just you just ask them to break it down further.

128 00:15:26.458 00:15:32.410 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing is you have to measure right? Because if if people see that pointing is useless and nobody ever looks up points.

129 00:15:32.580 00:15:39.160 Uttam Kumaran: they’re gonna just say, like a 5.3 point, whatever whatever. Whatever. Right? So for us, it’s also like we need to start saying, cool.

130 00:15:39.350 00:15:42.190 Uttam Kumaran: This team has a capacity of 20 points.

131 00:15:43.260 00:15:46.410 Uttam Kumaran: Per sprint. 15 of those are scheduled.

132 00:15:46.730 00:15:57.690 Uttam Kumaran: 5 of those are unscheduled. That’s it right that way. When we, if we get to the end of the sprint, and there’s more capacity. Then we know we are. We are. We’re under.

133 00:15:57.900 00:16:01.999 Uttam Kumaran: you know. We’re underestimating the other way. Then we’re overestimating.

134 00:16:05.520 00:16:06.410 Awaish Kumar: Okay.

135 00:16:06.930 00:16:11.780 Uttam Kumaran: No, so I don’t. I don’t think about less. Cause I’m I know I worked on a lot of teams where it’s like, yeah, you gotta like

136 00:16:12.210 00:16:20.430 Uttam Kumaran: people really just like kind of hate the company. And so they just like, they’re like, whatever I’m just gonna lie. That’s not happen. That’s not what’s happening here. I think people just like

137 00:16:20.860 00:16:25.250 Uttam Kumaran: they’re like 3 point fine. Looks like a 3 pointer. Then you have to ask, like, Okay, why do you think that?

138 00:16:25.480 00:16:31.479 Uttam Kumaran: Is there any way we can speed this up or like? Can we break this into smaller tickets? That’s that sort of thing.

139 00:16:32.520 00:16:33.520 Awaish Kumar: Okay, go ahead.

140 00:16:34.630 00:16:35.356 Uttam Kumaran: You know.

141 00:16:36.980 00:16:39.569 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah. Good. To hear that.

142 00:16:40.290 00:16:44.770 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And that’s you know, that’s that’s my perspective. But.

143 00:16:46.970 00:16:52.339 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I was. What I was I suggested to do was that like.

144 00:16:52.530 00:16:56.829 Awaish Kumar: try to estimate it first, st like Mike and myself

145 00:16:57.030 00:17:01.329 Awaish Kumar: through the tickets and then go in the meeting and and then

146 00:17:01.520 00:17:06.829 Awaish Kumar: and discuss with the team like, okay, I thought, this is 5 points. And what do you suggest? Like.

147 00:17:09.560 00:17:11.567 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and and also

148 00:17:14.200 00:17:15.730 Uttam Kumaran: And also it’s also like.

149 00:17:15.849 00:17:29.579 Uttam Kumaran: for the most part, we are underestimating. So you you want to just say like. But you, this is where, like in a retro, this is just a lot of this should happen in a retro where you take a look at how many points did we say we’re going to get done? How many do we actually get done? And why is there a difference?

150 00:17:30.550 00:17:32.729 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s a lot of like

151 00:17:33.750 00:17:41.689 Uttam Kumaran: what I think needs to be done. But the other piece, you know, and I sent this in the project management channel today.

152 00:17:42.304 00:17:45.699 Uttam Kumaran: Or maybe I sent it in the managers.

153 00:17:46.010 00:17:48.970 Uttam Kumaran: Is this flux 7 agile runbook?

154 00:17:49.240 00:17:54.900 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a pretty good you should read that like I. This I got. We got this from one of our advisors

155 00:17:55.050 00:18:00.389 Uttam Kumaran: and has a lot of detail in how they do.

156 00:18:02.960 00:18:05.460 Uttam Kumaran: they do planning, and they do agile, and

157 00:18:05.600 00:18:07.194 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know I feel like

158 00:18:10.750 00:18:11.270 Awaish Kumar: Okay.

159 00:18:11.270 00:18:15.751 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just like it just helps give clarity to to all these things, you know.

160 00:18:18.070 00:18:21.149 Uttam Kumaran: And they have like this thing with what is a working agreement.

161 00:18:23.460 00:18:27.690 Uttam Kumaran: Alright like stuff like that.

162 00:18:37.990 00:18:39.200 Awaish Kumar: Okay. Yeah.

163 00:18:57.980 00:19:00.250 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, what else.

164 00:19:02.160 00:19:09.080 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I don’t know. I I don’t like, I’m planning to meet with the data team

165 00:19:09.695 00:19:12.860 Awaish Kumar: to structure that and have some work on

166 00:19:13.160 00:19:23.740 Awaish Kumar: area where we want to move from segment to some events. So I have to kind of architect that project, how we can move from there to Google tag manager.

167 00:19:24.120 00:19:29.000 Awaish Kumar: So I’ve been working on that part as well, and I’m adding the dexter pipeline for.

168 00:19:29.570 00:19:30.870 Awaish Kumar: or Idian as well.

169 00:19:31.280 00:19:32.870 Awaish Kumar: So nothing less.

170 00:19:35.490 00:19:42.430 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. And I think the other, you know, I think the other thing is just lean on Luke a lot for Meta plane and stuff like that, you know. So

171 00:19:43.920 00:19:48.099 Uttam Kumaran: I think that’d be that’d be great.

172 00:19:50.270 00:19:58.940 Awaish Kumar: Okay, like for, for I have, like, you mean, like the technical stuff, right?

173 00:20:01.425 00:20:07.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. But even just like, I know I want. This is where I think part of even leadership is to

174 00:20:12.890 00:20:19.340 Uttam Kumaran: like, part of it is is, you know, even just to get be able to delegate right? And so

175 00:20:19.660 00:20:20.746 Uttam Kumaran: I think,

176 00:20:22.870 00:20:35.589 Uttam Kumaran: I think the one thing that’s important is yeah, like, just helping even coach like, because if me and you go do that, we’ll go get it done. But our job is now to to enable and to coach right? So even thinking. And you’re doing a good job on this, but

177 00:20:35.840 00:20:37.250 Uttam Kumaran: just sharing that.

178 00:20:38.130 00:20:42.779 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like I haven’t in delegated. And then. Now, look is at

179 00:20:42.910 00:20:47.200 Awaish Kumar: kind of busy with that also Meta plan dpt setup.

180 00:20:47.540 00:20:53.509 Awaish Kumar: and I hope that he will finish by tomorrow, and we’ll we’ll have kind of

181 00:20:53.890 00:21:01.920 Awaish Kumar: complete setup for Eden, and only remaining things will be like adding some more tests which we can maybe

182 00:21:02.030 00:21:09.320 Awaish Kumar: monitor for one more week. And we can say, Okay, this is good enough product for moving forward or whatever like, we can make a decision.

183 00:21:10.490 00:21:11.640 Uttam Kumaran: Hmm, okay.

184 00:21:15.650 00:21:16.839 Awaish Kumar: So yeah.

185 00:21:17.790 00:21:24.639 Awaish Kumar: productivity. Then maybe I can also deliver some dexter work. So you can learn that tool as well.

186 00:21:25.220 00:21:26.000 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.

187 00:21:26.230 00:21:27.320 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Great.

188 00:21:31.780 00:21:34.786 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, I don’t know like for any what we decided like,

189 00:21:37.010 00:21:42.530 Awaish Kumar: And the recent message from Amber says that she wants to be in internal projects.

190 00:21:43.080 00:21:44.300 Awaish Kumar: But yeah.

191 00:21:45.350 00:21:51.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think it’s up. I don’t know. I I feel like some people. They want to do everything, but we have to protect them a little bit.

192 00:21:51.600 00:21:52.549 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, okay, yeah.

193 00:21:52.550 00:21:53.050 Uttam Kumaran: You know.

194 00:21:53.050 00:22:00.930 Awaish Kumar: But I think so like she when I asked her like, do you want to work on modeling stuff like she showed me that

195 00:22:01.140 00:22:02.040 Awaish Kumar: she didn’t.

196 00:22:02.200 00:22:10.220 Awaish Kumar: She would like to understand how these things work in background, but not really become an analytical, like analytic engineer

197 00:22:11.470 00:22:15.490 Awaish Kumar: between analysis and the data scientists or Ml. Work.

198 00:22:15.770 00:22:17.459 Awaish Kumar: You’ve used the.

199 00:22:22.380 00:22:23.406 Uttam Kumaran: I see.

200 00:22:24.060 00:22:28.619 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I think I think this is where, like sometimes people they don’t know, they wanna do.

201 00:22:29.230 00:22:46.120 Uttam Kumaran: They want to do random? They want to just do everything, you know, and it’s other. If you do everything, you end up doing nothing. So part of it, I think, for our junior people is to give them less like for me and you, we can switch contacts. But for them it’s gonna be difficult. So I want us to actually be careful on

202 00:22:46.350 00:22:48.719 Uttam Kumaran: listening to them on those pieces.

203 00:22:48.950 00:22:59.400 Uttam Kumaran: because they may say they want to do one thing, but in reality it’s not that easy to do all 4 or 5 things right, and of course, like the client work is number one. So

204 00:22:59.550 00:23:04.910 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. Maybe I’ll I’ll leave you to decide like what to do. But I feel like

205 00:23:05.270 00:23:07.839 Uttam Kumaran: there’s there’s a lot of client work. And then

206 00:23:07.940 00:23:10.829 Uttam Kumaran: I want her to get. We need definitely need more help on

207 00:23:11.050 00:23:15.690 Uttam Kumaran: like doing an proactive analysis. And like, sort of that, that consulting work. So

208 00:23:15.850 00:23:22.550 Uttam Kumaran: that’s where we we’re we’re lacking a lot right now on that. And so I think there’s a lot of opportunity there, you know.

209 00:23:24.400 00:23:27.720 Awaish Kumar: Yes. But yeah, maybe we have to encourage her

210 00:23:27.940 00:23:40.929 Awaish Kumar: in doing that. But yeah, like, she clearly mentioned to me that she wants to move away from clients and don’t want to work on client facing work. But I’m not sure how, as a data analyst to move away from that, because.

211 00:23:41.160 00:23:46.149 Awaish Kumar: like. That’s what you have to explain. Like I I did that, and I figured out these

212 00:23:46.440 00:23:48.040 Awaish Kumar: these insights from it.

213 00:23:48.850 00:23:56.129 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, ultimately, it’s like you find a way to do both. I mean, none of the we are a client service company, right? Like. So everything is gonna

214 00:23:56.440 00:24:04.119 Uttam Kumaran: deal with interacting with clients. So part of it is like, Look, I get that. But some you can’t get away from it all.

215 00:24:05.530 00:24:08.050 Uttam Kumaran: But also it’s like finding ways to do both. You know.

216 00:24:08.350 00:24:11.529 Awaish Kumar: So apart from client work, like, I’ve worked in

217 00:24:12.110 00:24:22.649 Awaish Kumar: like product based company like we have to explain. Maybe get insight for CEO, or like we have to do. We have some kind, like, maybe internal or external, whatever.

218 00:24:26.180 00:24:33.870 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I mean. But even like even the insights themselves are products, like, we’re shipping pro, we’re shipping insights like, there’s a process to develop those you know.

219 00:24:34.339 00:24:53.630 Uttam Kumaran: And you gotta also understand what the fear is right like, I think it even goes. One more step is like, understand what part of that she’s actually afraid of or nervous about like. What part of the client work does she not like? Because if she’s like, Hey, I don’t want to present the clients. Okay, that’s like, not that’s like 5% of the whole thing, right?

220 00:24:55.760 00:25:00.590 Uttam Kumaran: There’s so much other stuff, you know, apart from presenting.

221 00:25:00.730 00:25:04.299 Uttam Kumaran: presenting to clients that like are still very, very important work.

222 00:25:07.320 00:25:09.160 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, good, point.

223 00:25:09.160 00:25:10.210 Uttam Kumaran: I think part of it is the

224 00:25:10.850 00:25:26.120 Uttam Kumaran: because her understanding, too, of what client work is maybe maybe wrong. Right? So if you if you ask like, Hey, what? What does client work mean to you? And she’s like, well, it’s like going and doing Demos and presentations and stuff she’s like, I want to sit and answer questions. I’m like, okay. But like.

225 00:25:26.710 00:25:32.519 Uttam Kumaran: maybe there’s 20, maybe we think about it like, it’s 20% presentation. And it’s 80%

226 00:25:32.640 00:25:45.599 Uttam Kumaran: figuring out insights right? Like right now, the problem with our the analyst side is like, I think Robert is spending a lot of time thinking through what is the next insight we need to get? The analyst should be the one thinking through that right.

227 00:25:47.550 00:25:48.930 Awaish Kumar: Yep. Yep.

228 00:25:49.470 00:25:52.660 Uttam Kumaran: So like, how do we achieve that? And how do we get?

229 00:25:52.890 00:26:05.320 Uttam Kumaran: How do we get the analysts to sort of work on in that mentality where they’re like, oh, it’s actually my job to figure out what this company needs. And then that’s exciting. Right? Like working on dashboards and stuff is boring.

230 00:26:05.640 00:26:12.119 Uttam Kumaran: I get that. But what’s exciting is being able to help people grow their business and like, get a seat at the table

231 00:26:12.360 00:26:18.910 Uttam Kumaran: when you’re like. Not even a CEO. You’re like, kind of, you know. You’re you’re just like helping the company. That’s that’s what I feel is like

232 00:26:19.170 00:26:20.510 Uttam Kumaran: is important. Here.

233 00:26:23.040 00:26:26.089 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, like, that’s because what up?

234 00:26:26.660 00:26:31.669 Awaish Kumar: That’s what it is like. I have worked in that capacity as well. So.

235 00:26:32.490 00:26:34.810 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I worked as an analyst, too. Like I,

236 00:26:35.140 00:26:40.949 Uttam Kumaran: I get it. I get that like. But the promise is like, it’s not just the dashboard like.

237 00:26:40.950 00:26:41.470 Awaish Kumar: Yeah, yeah.

238 00:26:41.470 00:26:43.640 Uttam Kumaran: Not. It’s not about that, you know, at all.

239 00:26:45.010 00:26:58.529 Awaish Kumar: Yes, like, you have to answer like the business questions. And okay, like, these are good points for next one on one. I will try to get more into it and figure out what what’s going on in your mind.

240 00:26:58.530 00:27:00.170 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.

241 00:27:00.280 00:27:07.120 Uttam Kumaran: it’s good. I mean, look, I think, for the most part, people are just like could assume, they assume one thing, but maybe they have no idea. So it’s

242 00:27:07.470 00:27:10.870 Uttam Kumaran: it’s fine. Part of it is is helping them figure out the way forward. You know.

243 00:27:11.680 00:27:16.830 Awaish Kumar: Perfect. Okay, I I don’t have anything else like.

244 00:27:18.120 00:27:19.860 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, yeah. That’s all for me, too.

245 00:27:21.550 00:27:23.300 Awaish Kumar: Okay, yeah, thank you.

246 00:27:23.520 00:27:25.800 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, thanks. So much. Talk to you soon. Bye.

247 00:27:26.310 00:27:26.820 Awaish Kumar: So.