Meeting Title: Analyst Team Daily Date: 2025-03-06 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:09:31.960 ⇒ 00:09:33.199 Payas Parab (TikTok): What up! Dude!
2 00:09:37.670 ⇒ 00:09:38.580 Uttam Kumaran: What up! Dude!
3 00:09:39.400 ⇒ 00:09:40.520 Payas Parab (TikTok): How goes it?
4 00:09:41.230 ⇒ 00:09:41.960 Uttam Kumaran: You know.
5 00:09:43.060 ⇒ 00:09:49.360 Payas Parab (TikTok): Same old, same old sorry. I went a little on my, for like a day the the chief we hired a new chief product officer, and he was like.
6 00:09:49.490 ⇒ 00:09:58.702 Payas Parab (TikTok): we’re hiring a bunch of Ml. Engineers, and he’s like, I want to know everything you have all these people doing tomorrow, before we extend the offers, and I was like fuck.
7 00:09:58.990 ⇒ 00:10:02.089 Uttam Kumaran: I mean good on that guy. Bro. I wanna know the same fucking thing.
8 00:10:02.460 ⇒ 00:10:02.970 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
9 00:10:03.905 ⇒ 00:10:08.590 Uttam Kumaran: It’s funny, because it’s me extending the offer. So it’s fine.
10 00:10:10.190 ⇒ 00:10:11.862 Uttam Kumaran: Good on that guy.
11 00:10:12.280 ⇒ 00:10:14.910 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that guy, I mean, he just came in. And he was like, Oh, yeah, you guys, like.
12 00:10:14.910 ⇒ 00:10:15.580 Uttam Kumaran: Savage.
13 00:10:15.580 ⇒ 00:10:16.879 Payas Parab (TikTok): Account. And like.
14 00:10:17.200 ⇒ 00:10:21.230 Payas Parab (TikTok): you guys like these people. But like, what are they gonna be doing? And then I basically was like.
15 00:10:22.080 ⇒ 00:10:29.410 Payas Parab (TikTok): you know, you you like have to do the like. I had to make a deck basically of like, here are the like data science projects. We have slated and shit and.
16 00:10:29.410 ⇒ 00:10:30.130 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
17 00:10:30.450 ⇒ 00:10:32.900 Payas Parab (TikTok): But yeah, how’s everything else? I thought the Javi.
18 00:10:32.900 ⇒ 00:10:34.890 Uttam Kumaran: How many people are you hiring.
19 00:10:34.890 ⇒ 00:10:35.750 Payas Parab (TikTok): What up.
20 00:10:36.060 ⇒ 00:10:37.609 Uttam Kumaran: How many ml, people, are you hiring.
21 00:10:37.610 ⇒ 00:10:42.700 Payas Parab (TikTok): Dude. It’s prop tech dude, like the entire thing is like ml, like I, we have.
22 00:10:43.530 ⇒ 00:10:49.572 Payas Parab (TikTok): We have 5 product lines right now. I’m me and the head of data. Science are the only people on it.
23 00:10:50.220 ⇒ 00:10:50.960 Payas Parab (TikTok): and.
24 00:10:50.960 ⇒ 00:10:52.110 Uttam Kumaran: 6, okay.
25 00:10:52.110 ⇒ 00:10:58.089 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, like, we’re trying to like automate, like all of like real estate management for like private equity firms, basically.
26 00:10:58.980 ⇒ 00:11:04.509 Payas Parab (TikTok): And so it’s like modeling out like like, here’s like all the models we have to build. And it’s like.
27 00:11:04.930 ⇒ 00:11:11.229 Payas Parab (TikTok): you know, like millions of home data and like scraping it, cleaning it, processing it, modeling it. It’s like.
28 00:11:11.370 ⇒ 00:11:16.700 Uttam Kumaran: A monster. So yeah, yeah, there’s there’s 3 open mle positions.
29 00:11:17.640 ⇒ 00:11:18.390 Uttam Kumaran: Wow.
30 00:11:19.760 ⇒ 00:11:24.739 Uttam Kumaran: damn! What does an mle even do? Bro cause? I worked with many mles, and they didn’t do shit.
31 00:11:25.870 ⇒ 00:11:30.430 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s I’m alarmed about that. The people.
32 00:11:30.685 ⇒ 00:11:34.779 Uttam Kumaran: You know how many engineers I’ve worked with that haven’t done shit 80% of them
33 00:11:34.940 ⇒ 00:11:41.030 Uttam Kumaran: like, so it’s I. But I just have worked. But I, it’s actually not a fact about the Mlas. It’s a fact about
34 00:11:41.360 ⇒ 00:11:45.860 Uttam Kumaran: the companies I worked at thought they had Ml problems when they they had data problems like, normally.
35 00:11:45.860 ⇒ 00:11:46.440 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sure, sure.
36 00:11:47.310 ⇒ 00:11:55.419 Uttam Kumaran: But like, I’m just curious about like even what like give me like the hardest, like what is the hardest, because don’t have much background, and like I.
37 00:11:55.420 ⇒ 00:12:03.779 Payas Parab (TikTok): So so we’re we’re creating, we’re creating an automated way to for any county in America for us to file a assessment appeal.
38 00:12:04.940 ⇒ 00:12:22.240 Payas Parab (TikTok): So basically, you have to like process, that county’s data. You have to find houses that make a compelling case. And then you need to like construct like a document that basic lists out here are the properties. Here’s what they sold for. Here’s why they’re similar to my property. Therefore I should be taxed lower.
39 00:12:22.570 ⇒ 00:12:26.870 Payas Parab (TikTok): And then you need to do that. Every county has their own rules, so they’ll be like, Hey.
40 00:12:27.010 ⇒ 00:12:32.029 Payas Parab (TikTok): like certain counties in North Carolina will be like if the house is different by
41 00:12:32.220 ⇒ 00:12:49.589 Payas Parab (TikTok): 500 square feet. We don’t consider them similar enough. If they’re if one has a pool and the other doesn’t, we don’t consider them similar enough, and your entire case gets thrown out, and the counties are pretty savage about this, because, like we, along with other tech platforms and other vendors are trying to build that
42 00:12:50.070 ⇒ 00:12:54.760 Payas Parab (TikTok): like the system, right? Like to make it automated so that you don’t have to have a person that does it.
43 00:12:54.870 ⇒ 00:12:56.650 Payas Parab (TikTok): And like we.
44 00:12:56.650 ⇒ 00:13:00.699 Uttam Kumaran: Because you’re basically sitting on these savings like you could go get these savings if you have the data.
45 00:13:01.170 ⇒ 00:13:07.330 Payas Parab (TikTok): Exactly. Yeah, but like you, you, for example, like, if you own a property in Austin and like I, Texas, is one of.
46 00:13:07.330 ⇒ 00:13:09.489 Uttam Kumaran: Are you talking about just commercial or houses?
47 00:13:09.490 ⇒ 00:13:11.279 Payas Parab (TikTok): I’m talking about single family homes.
48 00:13:11.830 ⇒ 00:13:17.530 Payas Parab (TikTok): But the problem is the single family homes like our our boys that Tricon own 25,000 of these motherfuckers.
49 00:13:17.530 ⇒ 00:13:20.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, we know what happened recently. Yeah.
50 00:13:20.040 ⇒ 00:13:20.920 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
51 00:13:21.342 ⇒ 00:13:40.239 Payas Parab (TikTok): like, those are. So our clients are those people. And so like they want, like, especially some enterprise fast that like can help them, just like with a few clicks like launch like, Hey, here’s your 20,000 properties. Here’s the 8,000 counties where we think we can win an appeal. And here’s like our automated AI agent that goes and files the appeal for you.
52 00:13:40.240 ⇒ 00:13:45.459 Uttam Kumaran: I was gonna say, yeah, dude, you should just use AI to to basically make the consideration.
53 00:13:45.460 ⇒ 00:13:49.829 Payas Parab (TikTok): I mean right now, we just have offshore team. We have an offshore team, but like we need to make
54 00:13:50.040 ⇒ 00:13:57.039 Payas Parab (TikTok): even the offshore team kind of sucks. So we have to like, make them better, using data right? Like they like they like don’t know, like.
55 00:13:57.650 ⇒ 00:14:13.210 Payas Parab (TikTok): they’re just not very good at what they do right? Like, like, typically like appeals, like assessments and assessment, like taking like fighting the county on your properties. Assessment. It’s like lawyers that handle that, or like real estate professionals. And now it’s like some guy in fucking India like doing.
56 00:14:13.210 ⇒ 00:14:14.479 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57 00:14:14.480 ⇒ 00:14:30.920 Payas Parab (TikTok): And he doesn’t know like how to do this, but like we generate him like a set of like what we call like an evidence packet so he can go, make the phone call to the county and like, submit it and like, send it to the assessor and like, go back and forth and fight because they’ll fight it right? They’ll be like we think we do a good job at this. But like
58 00:14:31.060 ⇒ 00:14:37.519 Payas Parab (TikTok): in the Us. Because property taxes are based on assessed value. You, like have the right to like fight. It.
59 00:14:39.500 ⇒ 00:14:41.610 Uttam Kumaran: But who fights it like city.
60 00:14:43.530 ⇒ 00:14:44.590 Payas Parab (TikTok): Like, what do you mean? The.
61 00:14:44.590 ⇒ 00:14:47.570 Uttam Kumaran: No, no! If when you make the appeal, who throws it out.
62 00:14:48.060 ⇒ 00:14:57.720 Payas Parab (TikTok): The county. Every county has like a county assessor’s office, and they’re actually, ironically, they’re pretty elect. They’re elected. And they actually have such an important role that like.
63 00:14:57.720 ⇒ 00:15:12.719 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah. You know how I know this, because Austin, in the last 3 years has gone through last 5 years, has gone through a huge. So I I keep in. I know everything about like a lot of like home real estate here because I’ve been following. And this is one of the most interesting places to
64 00:15:12.820 ⇒ 00:15:18.830 Uttam Kumaran: to look at the data for home sales because it went up really high. It’s going.
65 00:15:18.830 ⇒ 00:15:20.669 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sound like 40% year over year.
66 00:15:20.670 ⇒ 00:15:31.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s a horrible yeah. So probably, like, it’s 1 of the most. It’s 1 of the worst places to be a real estate agent right now, because they unlock so much supply that the price is crashing insanely.
67 00:15:32.250 ⇒ 00:15:41.770 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, the one of the big problems that happened is, yes, the county assessor’s office is always delayed, so they, fucking ripped people’s insurance right? They ripped.
68 00:15:42.194 ⇒ 00:15:42.619 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
69 00:15:42.950 ⇒ 00:15:47.479 Uttam Kumaran: So the insurance goes up. The and the property tax in Texas is much higher than anywhere else, so.
70 00:15:47.480 ⇒ 00:15:48.610 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, exactly.
71 00:15:48.610 ⇒ 00:15:50.458 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like 2, something right? Because there’s no
72 00:15:50.690 ⇒ 00:15:51.170 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, I’ll say.
73 00:15:51.170 ⇒ 00:15:52.630 Uttam Kumaran: Income tax. So
74 00:15:52.730 ⇒ 00:16:00.669 Uttam Kumaran: people got ripped. But it’s coming down at a rate where like, just, it’s a data problem that the fact that it’s not getting readjusted
75 00:16:01.100 ⇒ 00:16:01.820 Uttam Kumaran: right? Right?
76 00:16:01.820 ⇒ 00:16:08.100 Payas Parab (TikTok): No, that’s exactly. And this is like, that’s why they also give you that right to appeal right? Because, like, if you’re an owner of a home like
77 00:16:08.200 ⇒ 00:16:18.019 Payas Parab (TikTok): to like if you get your property value down from 500 to 50,000 is not a trivial sum of money, right? As an individual.
78 00:16:18.770 ⇒ 00:16:23.800 Payas Parab (TikTok): Okay, cool like, it’s not at all trivial. It’s a thousand bucks, right? And you’re like.
79 00:16:23.800 ⇒ 00:16:24.649 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
80 00:16:24.650 ⇒ 00:16:38.580 Payas Parab (TikTok): It builds off of that right, because all of them inflate the prices consistently. So anytime you can fight it and lower it the like if you don’t fight it like the people who haven’t fought it for years. They’re like assessed value. Just continue to go up so fast, you know.
81 00:16:38.580 ⇒ 00:16:44.570 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, mean, like, and yeah, it’s actually nobody is incentivized to like, be like.
82 00:16:45.800 ⇒ 00:16:55.119 Uttam Kumaran: bring it lower because it has nothing to do with the home sales in your, and it does as something. But like the cycles of reviewing and and bringing out the new assessment is what every year.
83 00:16:55.710 ⇒ 00:16:57.630 Uttam Kumaran: Just yeah. So every year.
84 00:16:58.070 ⇒ 00:17:03.769 Uttam Kumaran: So in a place like this, where there’s 40% swings over 2 years, which is like, it’s never happened.
85 00:17:03.900 ⇒ 00:17:04.390 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
86 00:17:04.390 ⇒ 00:17:07.310 Uttam Kumaran: Like, yo, people are fucking, getting ripped, and they’re
87 00:17:07.609 ⇒ 00:17:13.249 Uttam Kumaran: they may get ripped by insurance, but also tax. And they could. Yeah, it’s totally I totally see it.
88 00:17:13.250 ⇒ 00:17:14.559 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that that you guys.
89 00:17:14.560 ⇒ 00:17:17.630 Uttam Kumaran: Why, why don’t you guys go fucking? Hire a bunch of assessors.
90 00:17:19.999 ⇒ 00:17:20.859 Payas Parab (TikTok): Like.
91 00:17:22.079 ⇒ 00:17:40.619 Payas Parab (TikTok): I mean, we, the thing is is like, it’s not like the problem is that the business right? So we take a win percentage. Right? This is the challenge. This is where it’s like, the Ml aspect of it is important is like, we take a percentage of winnings. And even for like. There’s a reason we don’t go to like a random guy who owns even a million dollar house. If we
92 00:17:41.070 ⇒ 00:17:42.619 Payas Parab (TikTok): we’ll buy a hundred $1,000.
93 00:17:42.620 ⇒ 00:17:46.790 Uttam Kumaran: No, no, you have to go to the back. You have to go to people that have the buckets of like properties. Yeah.
94 00:17:46.790 ⇒ 00:18:09.569 Payas Parab (TikTok): But you need, like you need, like a shit ton of properties to even make the effort worth it and the effort worth. It is like a very human capital. The process was designed for individual homeowners like the originally, the intent wasn’t that like Blackstone’s American homes for rent was gonna like Rip, 40,000 appeals across the country with a single click of the button. It was intended that you, as an individual homeowner, can be like.
95 00:18:09.570 ⇒ 00:18:11.180 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that’s why you built the product.
96 00:18:11.680 ⇒ 00:18:12.580 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
97 00:18:12.580 ⇒ 00:18:13.800 Uttam Kumaran: Oh!
98 00:18:13.800 ⇒ 00:18:16.019 Payas Parab (TikTok): The product we serve, we serve the private.
99 00:18:16.020 ⇒ 00:18:21.169 Uttam Kumaran: Is this really like a do you think I could go? I could? Do you think I could go personally.
100 00:18:21.410 ⇒ 00:18:25.579 Uttam Kumaran: run this data and be like. Fuck it. I think my home is worth this. Let me rip it up like
101 00:18:25.750 ⇒ 00:18:30.560 Uttam Kumaran: it’s it’s it’s like worth like 600 bucks, maybe, like right, or a thousand bucks.
102 00:18:30.560 ⇒ 00:18:37.829 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s the thing is like, the thing is is like some people feel like sometimes again, like you said in markets where there’s massive fluctuations. It is like really meaningful, like.
103 00:18:37.830 ⇒ 00:18:50.109 Uttam Kumaran: And here you could totally dude. There’s a huge re. You should I should. You should be using post pilots and everybody here fucking be like, we will reassess. It’s because the thing is, there’s a lot of businesses that are all just.
104 00:18:51.598 ⇒ 00:18:53.870 Uttam Kumaran: Lead Gen. And brokering.
105 00:18:54.000 ⇒ 00:18:54.850 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
106 00:18:54.850 ⇒ 00:18:59.949 Uttam Kumaran: This is very similar to a lot of businesses in in personal injury.
107 00:19:00.260 ⇒ 00:19:00.970 Payas Parab (TikTok): Dang!
108 00:19:00.970 ⇒ 00:19:08.760 Uttam Kumaran: We’re gonna find the best cases. And then if we win, we’re gonna get a fee. And like you find the best cases. My friend works at Atticus. This is what they do.
109 00:19:08.960 ⇒ 00:19:09.430 Payas Parab (TikTok): Oh, yeah.
110 00:19:09.430 ⇒ 00:19:13.150 Uttam Kumaran: Trying to do data science of finding out which cases they can have more odds of winning.
111 00:19:13.150 ⇒ 00:19:36.980 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s exact. But that’s exactly like cause we have cases like where we’re like, if we get 30,000 homes and they’re in a hundred different counties, right? Like, we need to know which ones are actually worth our time really, really, quickly. And which ones can we like generate a case like that. And like which ones we’re gonna assign to the offshore, and which ones like we really think are good. And we’ll like assigned to someone onshore which is like these like ex assessor office people, right like.
112 00:19:36.980 ⇒ 00:19:37.560 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
113 00:19:37.560 ⇒ 00:19:37.889 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s like.
114 00:19:38.132 ⇒ 00:19:39.100 Uttam Kumaran: I see! I see!
115 00:19:39.100 ⇒ 00:19:43.100 Payas Parab (TikTok): It’s a. It’s a like, it’s a human. It’s like a human capital management problem. More than.
116 00:19:43.100 ⇒ 00:19:45.700 Uttam Kumaran: Is it work? Is it work? I mean, is it working.
117 00:19:47.150 ⇒ 00:20:02.860 Payas Parab (TikTok): It makes. It’s it’s it. Like breaks even sometimes in certain. For certain clients. It’s our. It’s a loss leader for us, though, because basically the appeals because we get paid on contingency. These big companies like, why not rip it like, you know, like.
118 00:20:03.420 ⇒ 00:20:06.090 Payas Parab (TikTok): what happens is the county says no. So right now.
119 00:20:06.090 ⇒ 00:20:11.059 Uttam Kumaran: No risk to them. But you don’t get paid. Yeah, it’s no risk to them. But you don’t get paid.
120 00:20:11.060 ⇒ 00:20:14.339 Payas Parab (TikTok): But you don’t get paid, but the thing is is we sell them. The other shit right is like, now.
121 00:20:14.340 ⇒ 00:20:14.819 Uttam Kumaran: What do you have?
122 00:20:14.820 ⇒ 00:20:22.659 Payas Parab (TikTok): The data. We ran our like rental Comps model, and we can like better price all your rentals, and that shit costs a million dollars a year.
123 00:20:22.660 ⇒ 00:20:26.709 Uttam Kumaran: How are you getting around? Not having access to Costar and shit like that?
124 00:20:26.830 ⇒ 00:20:28.579 Uttam Kumaran: But that’s oh, that’s commercial.
125 00:20:29.200 ⇒ 00:20:33.700 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s commercial. Yeah, for residential. We have a lot of core logic and American trust data.
126 00:20:33.700 ⇒ 00:20:34.849 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
127 00:20:34.850 ⇒ 00:20:37.020 Payas Parab (TikTok): Then we’re pulling all that in. And then.
128 00:20:37.310 ⇒ 00:20:40.319 Payas Parab (TikTok): like again, dude like that. Data is a fucking nightmare, right? Like.
129 00:20:41.470 ⇒ 00:20:47.419 Payas Parab (TikTok): like, like, I’m looking for data, for, like which houses have fucking pools. And that’s like, not an easy data set to find.
130 00:20:47.420 ⇒ 00:20:51.370 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I do have. I can get that for you. I know where to get it.
131 00:20:51.720 ⇒ 00:20:58.580 Uttam Kumaran: No, we’re going. We’re going through. Why, dude, what I’m not. Gonna give it to you for free. What the fuck are you? Gonna you gonna pay me? Write me the check.
132 00:20:58.580 ⇒ 00:21:01.230 Payas Parab (TikTok): Maybe we will dude no joke. Maybe we will.
133 00:21:01.540 ⇒ 00:21:04.268 Uttam Kumaran: I have the data it’s from. It’s from
134 00:21:05.510 ⇒ 00:21:17.739 Uttam Kumaran: Cause I did this. Bro, you know what I you know I pitch I so I pitched pool parts on a project where I said, I want to get you every I’m gonna get you every home with a pool in America.
135 00:21:18.060 ⇒ 00:21:20.689 Payas Parab (TikTok): Okay, we are going to identify.
136 00:21:21.190 ⇒ 00:21:39.945 Uttam Kumaran: Certain counties that you’ve already had success with. And basically canvas using post pilot, we’re gonna send. We’re gonna send a thing to every single pool owner in our best performing counties right before, like the season. And so that way it’ll go. And I found a vendor that would sell me that data it’s called
137 00:21:40.570 ⇒ 00:21:43.450 Uttam Kumaran: Here, let me find it’s like American first, st or some shit like that.
138 00:21:43.450 ⇒ 00:21:53.740 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that we, we just signed a contract with them. They’re they’re like a core logic competitor. We’re still in the like data evaluation process. The problem is like, right now, we’re in the thick of appeal season.
139 00:21:53.760 ⇒ 00:22:19.930 Payas Parab (TikTok): and they’re like things are due really soon. So we’re kind of like building the plane as we’re flying where we’re like, we’re going to make this data set better. We’re going to be better predicted like like that’s like the pool, for example, is like one of 8 factors of why, a county looks at this and goes. This is fucking retarded like we’re not gonna like, you know, like like, if you look at like your, this is the Comp. And we’re saying these are all way more expensive like ours should be cheaper, but yours has a pool and theirs. Don’t you just look stupid right.
140 00:22:19.930 ⇒ 00:22:21.779 Uttam Kumaran: No, yeah. I mean, you’re like a moron. Yeah, you’re.
141 00:22:21.780 ⇒ 00:22:22.340 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
142 00:22:22.340 ⇒ 00:22:24.489 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s a pool like that. Are you fucking like.
143 00:22:24.490 ⇒ 00:22:24.840 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
144 00:22:24.900 ⇒ 00:22:30.539 Uttam Kumaran: Have a fucking pool like, that’s 30 grand or whatever. But dude, yeah, I mean, it is a data problem. But like.
145 00:22:31.290 ⇒ 00:22:39.179 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I called 10 people. And I was like, I want pool. I want every. The problem is, those guys are those guys are this are scumbags. The data brokers are.
146 00:22:39.180 ⇒ 00:22:39.760 Payas Parab (TikTok): Oh, yeah.
147 00:22:40.520 ⇒ 00:22:58.520 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. What a joke! What a complete joke! I have a really good, if you want to learn. I did a lot of research. So I wanted to start one of those companies like a data broker. I still do. I still think I can. Because it’s an amazing business. In fact, many great businesses.
148 00:22:58.640 ⇒ 00:23:07.600 Uttam Kumaran: many great Saas companies end up becoming data brokers just based on the output of their software tool.
149 00:23:07.600 ⇒ 00:23:11.580 Payas Parab (TikTok): I’ve built we. We’ve sold data for like $30,000 a year. That’s.
150 00:23:11.580 ⇒ 00:23:17.929 Uttam Kumaran: You know, we sell, we. We do have a data set on Snowflake marketplace that’s making money. It’s it’s interesting. There’s like a whole business we could do there, but.
151 00:23:17.930 ⇒ 00:23:18.770 Payas Parab (TikTok): Really.
152 00:23:18.770 ⇒ 00:23:22.319 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I I repackaged. And I’m selling fema data.
153 00:23:23.420 ⇒ 00:23:25.050 Payas Parab (TikTok): Fema data. Interesting. Okay.
154 00:23:25.050 ⇒ 00:23:27.710 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, see, I got some side quests. Yeah.
155 00:23:28.555 ⇒ 00:23:36.450 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, so. But like, for example, I called like 10, I called 10 different property vendors, and I said, I want every pool in America.
156 00:23:36.750 ⇒ 00:23:40.909 Uttam Kumaran: and I got quotes, and then we got a sample from when Ben said, Ben’s like.
157 00:23:42.160 ⇒ 00:23:46.369 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, makes it like not worth it. I think I still think it’s fucking.
158 00:23:46.370 ⇒ 00:23:47.209 Payas Parab (TikTok): Your data points.
159 00:23:47.210 ⇒ 00:23:47.750 Uttam Kumaran: Every day.
160 00:23:47.750 ⇒ 00:23:49.540 Payas Parab (TikTok): Extortion, dude like like Tiktok, like.
161 00:23:49.540 ⇒ 00:23:50.100 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna go.
162 00:23:50.100 ⇒ 00:23:52.330 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sets we brought like we bought.
163 00:23:52.330 ⇒ 00:24:08.080 Uttam Kumaran: If I give you an example. What I wanted to do is I wanted to get I wanted to just run AI image models over open Geo maps. And now that the now that the AI, now that the AI image recognition is so cheap, I could just we could just rip that.
164 00:24:08.860 ⇒ 00:24:09.620 Payas Parab (TikTok): Hmm.
165 00:24:10.130 ⇒ 00:24:24.070 Uttam Kumaran: Because the satellites, the satellite maps, are also way, higher quality. And the problem with those data brokers is the interface sucks ass. You have to get a file. You’re talking to Boomers. They can’t deliver it to you unless there’s a fucking sftp.
166 00:24:24.070 ⇒ 00:24:25.390 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah, exactly.
167 00:24:25.390 ⇒ 00:24:27.580 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to do it all in snowflake rails.
168 00:24:27.770 ⇒ 00:24:34.530 Uttam Kumaran: And I want to. Basically, I just want to basically go like undercut these people extraordinarily and.
169 00:24:34.530 ⇒ 00:24:35.000 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
170 00:24:35.000 ⇒ 00:24:36.109 Uttam Kumaran: People, yeah.
171 00:24:36.500 ⇒ 00:24:38.170 Payas Parab (TikTok): I mean you could, I mean, even like
172 00:24:38.300 ⇒ 00:25:06.540 Payas Parab (TikTok): like I cause one of the projects like the reason, like, for example, I got so horny for this like address. Matching thing is like we did like we did like a bunch of like that problem. Companies like Tiktok and all their advertisers like have this problem so aggressively like we used to literally like dude. I think we paid Nielsen half a million dollars for a million users, emails matched to their tiktok handle like straight up. Half a million dollars like that’s that’s crazy dude like, yeah.
173 00:25:06.540 ⇒ 00:25:10.169 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. I used to work with a lot of Nielsen data. We used to run ads at flow code. So I used to get.
174 00:25:10.170 ⇒ 00:25:10.540 Payas Parab (TikTok): Oh, yeah.
175 00:25:10.540 ⇒ 00:25:13.040 Uttam Kumaran: Fox data, cnn, data.
176 00:25:13.040 ⇒ 00:25:15.370 Payas Parab (TikTok): That shit for so much money that I’m like. It’s like.
177 00:25:15.370 ⇒ 00:25:16.420 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, that’s horrible! Bro.
178 00:25:16.420 ⇒ 00:25:20.769 Payas Parab (TikTok): If you can just like match some stuff like they’re like, cool like.
179 00:25:20.770 ⇒ 00:25:42.059 Uttam Kumaran: I I really wanted to start. I I really do am interested in starting one of those businesses, because it’s so easy to undercut, because most of the blow in those businesses go to people. And I think we could use data breaks and snowflake marketplaces to basically automate all the rails of delivery. And then it’s pure sales. And then it’s just basically being like
180 00:25:42.280 ⇒ 00:25:56.039 Uttam Kumaran: we have these sets. And you basically turn. And I’m telling you because I turned a public data set, and, like the Fema, a friend of mine, he he worked for like the Aclu he was head of. He was head of data engineering at the Aclu. And he’s like, Hey, I need.
181 00:25:56.480 ⇒ 00:26:15.449 Uttam Kumaran: I need, I need like this fema data. We’re running an airflow job that pulls it in. It’s super shitty. If you guys can do it, I’ll give you like a hundred bucks a month. This is when I was 1st starting the business I was thinking about like 10 different things to do. I was like, Okay, we’ll do it. Me and my friend, it’s it’s like, actually like, it’s like, so trash like how to join all this shit you need. Like, you have to like, figure it out.
182 00:26:15.450 ⇒ 00:26:15.930 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
183 00:26:15.930 ⇒ 00:26:32.610 Uttam Kumaran: And we did it on. We joined it. It’s and it’s running all as a snowflake task in Snowflake. And then we just haven’t listed as snowflake share some guy email. Me today being like it hasn’t been updated in 2 months. Can you update it? I’m like, I don’t even know anybody’s using this.
184 00:26:32.610 ⇒ 00:26:33.980 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
185 00:26:33.980 ⇒ 00:26:41.410 Uttam Kumaran: But yeah, we have fema fema disaster declarations. If you go to Snowflake marketplace, Brain Forge is listed as a.
186 00:26:41.620 ⇒ 00:26:42.630 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s awesome dude.
187 00:26:42.630 ⇒ 00:26:51.140 Uttam Kumaran: But we have to. We had to apply to become a partner a marketplace partner like I had to jump through like 10 hoops. I knew someone at Snowflake.
188 00:26:51.140 ⇒ 00:26:55.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah listing we could sell on there. Let’s stripe
189 00:26:56.580 ⇒ 00:26:59.690 Payas Parab (TikTok): Dude. We need to do brain forge labs, baby brain forge labs.
190 00:26:59.690 ⇒ 00:27:04.600 Uttam Kumaran: I know we do but see that this is the difference between my company and your company. I can’t afford to do that.
191 00:27:04.600 ⇒ 00:27:06.230 Payas Parab (TikTok): You can’t. That’s the issue. Yeah, you can’t.
192 00:27:06.230 ⇒ 00:27:11.779 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t place. I can’t play. I can play like one side quest at a time. I shouldn’t be honestly
193 00:27:12.030 ⇒ 00:27:12.880 Uttam Kumaran: right, like I should.
194 00:27:12.880 ⇒ 00:27:18.990 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah sidequest until I shouldn’t. And there’s no side, because there’s no psychos money like.
195 00:27:18.990 ⇒ 00:27:19.660 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
196 00:27:19.660 ⇒ 00:27:25.409 Uttam Kumaran: That’s the tough part is. I think the side quest has to come after this business. I don’t know.
197 00:27:25.990 ⇒ 00:27:28.500 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s fair dude.
198 00:27:28.710 ⇒ 00:27:30.910 Payas Parab (TikTok): It’s no, no, it’s okay. I’m I’m like.
199 00:27:31.250 ⇒ 00:27:36.750 Uttam Kumaran: Or I could go raise like dude. That’s the other option for us is for me to be like, Okay, fuck it. We’re gonna go raise.
200 00:27:36.750 ⇒ 00:27:51.700 Payas Parab (TikTok): I mean, we we’d like, because it’s so funny, like the the company that Akbar was doing. The he’s doing the consulting for is the place. I was doing some data science contracting initially, they are like a data company, right in theory. But in practice they’re more like us where they’re like
201 00:27:51.880 ⇒ 00:28:04.220 Payas Parab (TikTok): their data like their their services company, right? Because, basically like they, they have a contract with Miami dolphins, for example, right? And and Akbar can tell you more about that, like they were like, Hey, we want good data to like better target
202 00:28:04.570 ⇒ 00:28:09.899 Payas Parab (TikTok): people who can afford boxes. It’s not a trivial problem, right? It’s like, you know, people make above a hundred K.
203 00:28:09.900 ⇒ 00:28:10.219 Uttam Kumaran: But you.
204 00:28:10.220 ⇒ 00:28:17.319 Payas Parab (TikTok): Can’t tell the difference between. Like someone who makes a hundred 500 k. 1 person can afford a box seats. The others can’t right.
205 00:28:17.620 ⇒ 00:28:18.150 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
206 00:28:18.150 ⇒ 00:28:22.359 Payas Parab (TikTok): And they paid him to do that. And then, like, ultimately, the engagement became just like
207 00:28:22.490 ⇒ 00:28:31.529 Payas Parab (TikTok): data cleaning like, it’s just like they’re just like some boomer over in like Miami dolphins. It is like, Hey, can you guys like help us fix this like thing? And now they’re like
208 00:28:31.720 ⇒ 00:28:42.450 Payas Parab (TikTok): they’re like, we want to be a data company. We want to be like an AI enablement company or whatever the fuck helps them raise money right? But in reality they’re just outsource solutions. Engineering for boomer enterprises is like what they.
209 00:28:42.450 ⇒ 00:28:46.159 Uttam Kumaran: A lot of those like scale AI was that for a long time.
210 00:28:46.583 ⇒ 00:28:47.430 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sure. Yeah.
211 00:28:47.430 ⇒ 00:28:54.249 Uttam Kumaran: Scale. AI, they just employ. They employed, like half of the Philippines, to basically label data. And then they were like, We’re this AI,
212 00:28:54.610 ⇒ 00:28:59.229 Uttam Kumaran: and then but then they they they cross the chasm, and or maybe not, I don’t know like
213 00:29:00.360 ⇒ 00:29:01.550 Uttam Kumaran: they’re still.
214 00:29:01.550 ⇒ 00:29:07.389 Payas Parab (TikTok): Honestly the way that, like Alexander Wang’s so horny for Government contracts, I do think they’re struggling a little bit.
215 00:29:08.070 ⇒ 00:29:16.199 Uttam Kumaran: I do. Yeah, I mean dude. But the thing is, if you’ve been in, if you’re in Vc. And you’re in startup, nothing is the way it is on the outside.
216 00:29:16.200 ⇒ 00:29:17.350 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
217 00:29:17.350 ⇒ 00:29:25.139 Uttam Kumaran: Those guys are. It’s that’s why I don’t. I don’t like those people like I was worked in startups and Vc. For a long time. I have friends.
218 00:29:25.140 ⇒ 00:29:27.150 Payas Parab (TikTok): It’s all like a giant circle. Jerk of like.
219 00:29:27.150 ⇒ 00:29:29.470 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not interested in working with Vcs.
220 00:29:29.850 ⇒ 00:29:34.370 Uttam Kumaran: I have no respect for those people, and I have no respect for these startup clouds chasers. I
221 00:29:35.210 ⇒ 00:29:38.269 Uttam Kumaran: I just want to get paid, and I want to go.
222 00:29:38.270 ⇒ 00:29:40.520 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, I want to build a business that makes money and.
223 00:29:40.520 ⇒ 00:29:44.119 Uttam Kumaran: I have no interest in the. I have no interest because I have friends.
224 00:29:44.660 ⇒ 00:29:47.849 Uttam Kumaran: I like to travel, I I can travel my own money.
225 00:29:48.390 ⇒ 00:29:53.730 Uttam Kumaran: I have a dog. What do I need? The twitter clout the likes for.
226 00:29:53.730 ⇒ 00:29:54.120 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
227 00:29:54.120 ⇒ 00:29:59.510 Uttam Kumaran: Go to chase. That doesn’t go to my chase. You know what I mean hit the chase account.
228 00:29:59.660 ⇒ 00:30:00.590 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, no, that’s.
229 00:30:00.590 ⇒ 00:30:13.769 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t give a fuck. I I just ran through that whole circuit in New York where I know I went to every I like I worked at we were during the peak. Like, I know, I knew, all those guys are all frauds. It’s like, it’s like 90% fraud. 10% like legit people.
230 00:30:14.580 ⇒ 00:30:19.429 Uttam Kumaran: By the time you meet the 10% you would have got robbed 10 times. You know.
231 00:30:19.430 ⇒ 00:30:24.389 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, the Vc dude passes. Come on, Dude. I’m telling you about passes. Bro, like
232 00:30:24.390 ⇒ 00:30:30.899 Payas Parab (TikTok): you’re telling you’re preaching. But okay, see, that’s the thing is like. Before I joined pastors, I actually did ask to look at the financials.
233 00:30:31.800 ⇒ 00:30:32.789 Payas Parab (TikTok): The financials are.
234 00:30:32.790 ⇒ 00:30:41.080 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. It’s not a. It’s not about whether they make money today. It’s about if they’re if they’re like, have the propensity to do bad things later for greed.
235 00:30:41.080 ⇒ 00:30:45.430 Payas Parab (TikTok): Well, that okay? So you know, without bye.
236 00:30:45.430 ⇒ 00:30:48.700 Payas Parab (TikTok): without doing shady shit, they could have been fine. That was my.
237 00:30:48.700 ⇒ 00:31:01.539 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not that’s not same with we were same with it’s not. It’s the one thing that you do wrong that takes out you in in. In this you have to be up. Everything has to go. Well, dude, for us to even have a chance at winning.
238 00:31:01.670 ⇒ 00:31:05.659 Uttam Kumaran: So it’s similarly, if the if you fuck up one thing
239 00:31:06.170 ⇒ 00:31:19.470 Uttam Kumaran: that’s gonna bring down the whole business nobody’s gonna care about like. And we work is a very similar story. In fact that was there was no fraud. It was a very legit business. In fact, it’s just the fact that this guy was polarizing.
240 00:31:19.470 ⇒ 00:31:19.970 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
241 00:31:19.970 ⇒ 00:31:35.419 Uttam Kumaran: And the fact that they tried to juice the they tried to juice the the like. What category the money went into, which was, it’s not fraud at all. It’s just like they made up an Ebitda slice. Yeah, they got hammered in the media, and then they got cooked.
242 00:31:36.190 ⇒ 00:31:39.250 Uttam Kumaran: What do you mean we had the money we bought all the real estate.
243 00:31:39.700 ⇒ 00:31:42.619 Uttam Kumaran: That’s what I’m saying. It’s just one piece that’s fair.
244 00:31:42.620 ⇒ 00:31:58.290 Payas Parab (TikTok): I the part I felt like as fraud like I phone like the Larping founders where they’re like, like, even like like I I, my little. I made a little tiny little widget that someone bought from me for $20,000. I was like, I’ve made more money than 95% of y combinator.
245 00:31:58.290 ⇒ 00:31:59.349 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
246 00:31:59.350 ⇒ 00:32:00.659 Payas Parab (TikTok): Like it’s like, you know.
247 00:32:00.660 ⇒ 00:32:05.799 Uttam Kumaran: No, but that’s why like I. But again, once I went through this stuff, whole cycle of that.
248 00:32:05.800 ⇒ 00:32:06.170 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
249 00:32:06.170 ⇒ 00:32:09.960 Uttam Kumaran: Thinking that was important to then meeting those people to being like, oh, shit! Don’t.
250 00:32:09.960 ⇒ 00:32:34.639 Payas Parab (TikTok): But I’m are you reverting back to like? It’s kind of, because, like, wouldn’t you rather not be like, like, you’re actually some really fucking smart guy. You really could lead a great organization, and you’re very technically sound. So now, like, but money is getting in the way right like that’s sort of like like, isn’t there? Are you like? Because I reached that same circle where I was like, I was like fuck all these clowns. I don’t need this, but then I was like, but I ran out of money, and more money could have helped me make this better and faster. Right? So I’m like.
251 00:32:34.640 ⇒ 00:32:35.480 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
252 00:32:35.480 ⇒ 00:32:39.440 Payas Parab (TikTok): Are these guys complete clowns? Maybe not, you know, like, like, I’m sort of.
253 00:32:39.440 ⇒ 00:32:47.190 Uttam Kumaran: No, but you see why you you I am at. We’re I’m you. You see that like? Could we move 2 times faster? Yes.
254 00:32:47.510 ⇒ 00:32:54.649 Uttam Kumaran: would I do it for? Maybe the the best investor in tech services, maybe. Can we do it without them? Yes.
255 00:32:55.310 ⇒ 00:33:04.949 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t start this business in it with expectation of raising, which means, if we but and do without, we done. We did this with no money like
256 00:33:05.100 ⇒ 00:33:06.929 Uttam Kumaran: not a cent of dollar. In fact.
257 00:33:06.930 ⇒ 00:33:13.229 Payas Parab (TikTok): You’re like generating cash flow. Then like, isn’t it like time to start things like like, I don’t know. Like, if you could get like, even just like, sometimes.
258 00:33:13.230 ⇒ 00:33:17.060 Uttam Kumaran: The margin profile is not the same like we have to give. We have to have
259 00:33:17.230 ⇒ 00:33:19.920 Uttam Kumaran: 40% gross margin.
260 00:33:20.390 ⇒ 00:33:21.610 Payas Parab (TikTok): Jesus Christ.
261 00:33:21.750 ⇒ 00:33:22.600 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
262 00:33:23.640 ⇒ 00:33:32.359 Uttam Kumaran: we have to have 40% gross margin. And we have to be north of like 15 million dollars for for us to get any sort of M, and a activity.
263 00:33:34.040 ⇒ 00:33:34.760 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
264 00:33:34.960 ⇒ 00:33:36.280 Payas Parab (TikTok): But but I just think like
265 00:33:36.440 ⇒ 00:33:39.280 Payas Parab (TikTok): like some capital in the near term, though, could like.
266 00:33:39.280 ⇒ 00:33:42.960 Uttam Kumaran: No, we could do. But there’s other vehicles like there’s other non equity vehicles. I would consider.
267 00:33:42.960 ⇒ 00:33:45.966 Payas Parab (TikTok): Oh, I would strongly recommend, like non equity, right like.
268 00:33:46.240 ⇒ 00:33:57.419 Uttam Kumaran: Credit lines, I would consider I would consider loans like even at rates that aren’t great, because, like at this point, what this is where, like, we’ll have to think about how this happens.
269 00:33:57.890 ⇒ 00:34:02.229 Uttam Kumaran: But ultimately dude, it’s like, it’s also playing the long game career. Wise like.
270 00:34:02.900 ⇒ 00:34:17.599 Uttam Kumaran: I think, in business. If you can get a win, the next one gets very. It’s a lot easier in terms of a lot of reasons. And so maybe this one we have to trudge it through, make it a good opportunity for everybody, and then the next one we go big.
271 00:34:17.710 ⇒ 00:34:26.269 Uttam Kumaran: but like raising 2, because the thing when you raise is you raise at a valuation you now have, that I don’t have that.
272 00:34:26.270 ⇒ 00:34:26.850 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
273 00:34:26.850 ⇒ 00:34:32.789 Uttam Kumaran: It. Me and Robert, are it? There is nobody talking to me and telling me to do fuck off.
274 00:34:32.969 ⇒ 00:34:33.519 Payas Parab (TikTok): It’s actually.
275 00:34:33.985 ⇒ 00:34:35.845 Uttam Kumaran: Except Jp. Morgan Chase.
276 00:34:37.480 ⇒ 00:34:47.029 Uttam Kumaran: Right? That’s it. I literally it’s like me. And then our our core stakeholder is like the banking system. Right? That’s great, because I wake up. I don’t give a fuck about anybody. But you guys.
277 00:34:47.030 ⇒ 00:34:48.840 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s awesome. I agree.
278 00:34:49.190 ⇒ 00:34:49.870 Uttam Kumaran: And
279 00:34:50.090 ⇒ 00:34:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: it. But it did. I will say I could go wake up tomorrow. We could go raise, name them. I could go raise.
280 00:34:58.010 ⇒ 00:35:00.249 Payas Parab (TikTok): No, no, but I’m like cause cause one thing
281 00:35:00.860 ⇒ 00:35:11.060 Payas Parab (TikTok): dude like I even like jokingly kind of told this to Robert right? But if we want to actually become that monster that’s M. And A. Acquirable. We got to swallow up those little guys, too, like that’s part of it, like, I think that’s part of the game.
282 00:35:11.464 ⇒ 00:35:13.080 Uttam Kumaran: I see you. Yeah.
283 00:35:13.270 ⇒ 00:35:15.219 Payas Parab (TikTok): Can we raise enough to like.
284 00:35:15.430 ⇒ 00:35:26.889 Payas Parab (TikTok): you know, like I was in this like I when I went to this like convention to like get customers for. Hpg, I was like, there was like, basically like there were like 8 of us doing the same fucking thing. And they were all like 3 to 4 guy shops. It’s like, yeah, we were the
285 00:35:27.560 ⇒ 00:35:34.470 Payas Parab (TikTok): at Fedex, and it’s the same like logic that you, Robert, and me and my boys at handy booger like it’s the same exact logic.
286 00:35:34.470 ⇒ 00:35:44.399 Uttam Kumaran: But like I don’t want to pay. I don’t want to pay a premium. I want those people to fail. And this is what I feel I feel those people should fail, and then they’ll come work for us, and we’ll pay them a premium.
287 00:35:45.090 ⇒ 00:35:53.359 Payas Parab (TikTok): What I’m saying is like, what if we proactively get to them first? st Right? Like what I’m saying is like you get like, let’s say, like, for example, like we do a raise, but it’s not like a raise.
288 00:35:53.360 ⇒ 00:35:57.130 Uttam Kumaran: You know, but, like you know, that most
289 00:35:57.330 ⇒ 00:36:01.600 Uttam Kumaran: mergers and acquisitions do not, are not positive. Roi.
290 00:36:01.600 ⇒ 00:36:02.699 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s fair. No, that’s fair.
291 00:36:02.700 ⇒ 00:36:04.659 Uttam Kumaran: You know that so.
292 00:36:06.510 ⇒ 00:36:23.240 Payas Parab (TikTok): Here’s my! Here’s my logic, though, is like you know how you said like like passes did this, by the way, because, like I was part of their like M. And A, so like, it was like, we basically reached out proactively to talk to all these folks understand what they’re doing. And then, the moment they were ready to crumble, I hit them with the like. We’ll give you 20.
293 00:36:23.458 ⇒ 00:36:24.990 Uttam Kumaran: Would do that. How bad for that.
294 00:36:24.990 ⇒ 00:36:25.850 Payas Parab (TikTok): Thing.
295 00:36:26.470 ⇒ 00:36:28.889 Uttam Kumaran: I would be. Yeah, I’d be interested in that.
296 00:36:28.890 ⇒ 00:36:53.979 Payas Parab (TikTok): Like. That’s how we gained like there was. I think it was some famous baseball player. He was just a client of another platform, and they were absolutely crumbling. And like I kicked off the conversation with them, being like, Would you guys ever consider getting bought out because that guy his minimum guarantee that he was on that platform. His minimum guarantee was less than what I thought the business was worth. So I was like, we’ll just buy the whole company and take all your long tail creators, too, and we offered him 20 K.
297 00:36:54.430 ⇒ 00:36:59.300 Payas Parab (TikTok): Of liquidity. The business was gonna crumble. It was just going to shudder. They were already preparing their like
298 00:36:59.450 ⇒ 00:37:06.309 Payas Parab (TikTok): to all our clients and creators. Thank you for believing us, and we were just like, Here’s 20 grand welcome to the team.
299 00:37:07.500 ⇒ 00:37:10.190 Uttam Kumaran: It’s so. Yeah, it’s so hard for me. Bro.
300 00:37:10.190 ⇒ 00:37:13.870 Payas Parab (TikTok): I mean you. You’ll never have to like for the services business, I think. Like, unless you get.
301 00:37:13.870 ⇒ 00:37:16.659 Payas Parab (TikTok): I just don’t think this is like a venture.
302 00:37:16.850 ⇒ 00:37:27.989 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think like I would have to really tell a story and and do a bunch of work associated with that, but in itself may take the business.
303 00:37:27.990 ⇒ 00:37:33.730 Payas Parab (TikTok): But but what I’m saying is like the story. The story is that you are a very talented like. It’s clear like it would be.
304 00:37:33.730 ⇒ 00:37:35.599 Uttam Kumaran: I know the story. I know the story.
305 00:37:35.930 ⇒ 00:37:44.159 Uttam Kumaran: You could raise the money. I’m not. I actually, I’m so caught like I’ve met like I met all I met all my heroes
306 00:37:44.380 ⇒ 00:37:45.760 Uttam Kumaran: in this business meaning.
307 00:37:46.190 ⇒ 00:38:00.010 Uttam Kumaran: I know what the most talented people can do, and we’re like we have the brain to think like that, like I could go walk in and get the money. In fact, starting this business made that the odds way higher. But it’s also like
308 00:38:00.850 ⇒ 00:38:15.650 Uttam Kumaran: I. Some part of me is like, we’re not working on a life change. We’re not working on like a billion dollar business. I would much rather keep the equity. Give as much the employees as I can make everybody here rich and try to do it on the next business.
309 00:38:16.480 ⇒ 00:38:29.530 Uttam Kumaran: The next business is cause. I realize, dude everybody I meet that’s done the 1st one, the second one. The whole system works with you because they’re like they know you can. You can. You can get the cash.
310 00:38:29.530 ⇒ 00:38:30.610 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s a fair.
311 00:38:30.610 ⇒ 00:38:38.620 Uttam Kumaran: It’s such a different thing. Like having a positive outcome changes. Everything is a Yes, yeah, quick. I just
312 00:38:38.620 ⇒ 00:38:41.500 Uttam Kumaran: could not believe how true that was
313 00:38:41.750 ⇒ 00:38:48.479 Uttam Kumaran: when and you know it’s all spaces like, if you make 20 KA year, some things become yeses. You make a million dollars.
314 00:38:48.480 ⇒ 00:38:49.320 Payas Parab (TikTok): That’s a gap.
315 00:38:49.320 ⇒ 00:38:52.639 Uttam Kumaran: The local credit unions like, Okay, you guys are big boys. Let’s we’ll talk.
316 00:38:52.640 ⇒ 00:38:53.130 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
317 00:38:53.130 ⇒ 00:39:15.339 Uttam Kumaran: You make 10 million a year. Then it’s like the Ib person that just talked to me about multiples will be like, okay, let’s start talking, or I’ll get a phone call. And someone’s like, Hey, if you guys looking for so it’s just like rich people. I realize it is rich get richer. But it’s literally that it’s like. And maybe that is a risk thing, because it’s like, people are like, okay, this is how he has higher odds. Let’s hitch the wagon.
318 00:39:15.550 ⇒ 00:39:21.100 Uttam Kumaran: but I don’t know. I do think that instead of trying to put all the eggs into one.
319 00:39:21.460 ⇒ 00:39:22.830 Uttam Kumaran: succeed with.
320 00:39:22.830 ⇒ 00:39:24.559 Payas Parab (TikTok): Get a win, even if it’s like, yeah.
321 00:39:24.560 ⇒ 00:39:26.710 Uttam Kumaran: The next one we could aim for something that’s like.
322 00:39:26.710 ⇒ 00:39:48.890 Payas Parab (TikTok): But what I’m saying is like, is there a way to like catapult that win of like? Well, we believe there’s a long tail of like these smaller guys. We believe we have a better system, better operations, better everything. We’ve done it once and successfully. Right, like we brought over talent from Pungo. We brought over clients from Pongo. We believe we can replicate this 10 times with a million dollars. We don’t need it to like burn your Vc.
323 00:39:48.890 ⇒ 00:39:54.499 Uttam Kumaran: I’ll tell you. This is what private equity does at- at the level, and they will buy us.
324 00:39:54.500 ⇒ 00:40:02.459 Payas Parab (TikTok): I’m saying is, we can make we can make a multimillion dollar asset. That’s juicy enough for them, right? Like the issue we’re at right now in the middle, right is like and.
325 00:40:02.460 ⇒ 00:40:03.540 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
326 00:40:03.540 ⇒ 00:40:18.009 Payas Parab (TikTok): It’s like informed by, like, I’m working on an acquisition Corp, basically like fundraising for an acquisition Corp to buy up, you know, in e-commerce. There’s like all these little integrations you’ve worked with all the data from these. Right? I’m like, like, there’s a hundred versions of ship station. And I was like.
327 00:40:18.010 ⇒ 00:40:18.440 Uttam Kumaran: I’m gonna buy.
328 00:40:18.440 ⇒ 00:40:22.159 Payas Parab (TikTok): The 5 smallest ones, and just try and beat everyone. And I’m gonna buy.
329 00:40:22.160 ⇒ 00:40:24.760 Uttam Kumaran: Other good ones that you should try to buy. Yeah.
330 00:40:24.760 ⇒ 00:40:43.680 Payas Parab (TikTok): But that’s what I’m saying is like, and I’m like we could make us cause I think the pitch isn’t like we want to like, Go take your money, burn a bunch. We know the margin doesn’t work. It’s not gonna be like massive personnel. But we’re actually just gonna like buy customers buy capabilities right and keep the top talent. And that’s it. And just start to own that space.
331 00:40:45.530 ⇒ 00:40:47.679 Payas Parab (TikTok): Isn’t that like a sellable story?
332 00:40:48.210 ⇒ 00:40:55.859 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not that it’s sellable. It’s more like I want to. I want the outcome like I I think.
333 00:40:56.220 ⇒ 00:40:59.100 Uttam Kumaran: because dude, I can’t work like
334 00:41:00.230 ⇒ 00:41:04.920 Uttam Kumaran: I will. If we’re working this hard on the next company, we need to make a billion dollars.
335 00:41:05.470 ⇒ 00:41:06.005 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
336 00:41:06.540 ⇒ 00:41:08.939 Uttam Kumaran: Thank God, want to call some people
337 00:41:09.060 ⇒ 00:41:19.589 Uttam Kumaran: who are like only would pick up the phone if I call them. And I’m like, let’s go make a billion dollars. I have some friends that are like that that I can’t call to work on this business because
338 00:41:19.810 ⇒ 00:41:32.819 Uttam Kumaran: they are also they are at. They are like, I have friends that are like operators in startups that are like, Oh, you guys are like making like 500 K cool. I just like canceled a like 10 million dollar salesforce contract. And I’m like
339 00:41:33.450 ⇒ 00:41:38.780 Uttam Kumaran: they’re run like. And they’re like, we just. I just closed our like our secondary, our series see at like.
340 00:41:38.780 ⇒ 00:41:53.339 Payas Parab (TikTok): What I’m saying is like, Okay, so if you, if you wait 2 to 3 years of this business to get to that point right like. Is there a world in which the thing you’ve already built, and so much foundation like? Can we get that to a juicier wind that’s like worthwhile to those bigger guys is what I’m saying.
341 00:41:55.270 ⇒ 00:41:57.623 Uttam Kumaran: I see your point like I think,
342 00:41:58.130 ⇒ 00:42:04.330 Uttam Kumaran: I mean ultimately dude. I I asked the same question because we I went to us. We went we did a seminar with our accelerator about.
343 00:42:04.330 ⇒ 00:42:04.969 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
344 00:42:05.310 ⇒ 00:42:08.530 Uttam Kumaran: And I should send. I’ll send you that. I’ll send you the video.
345 00:42:08.530 ⇒ 00:42:10.480 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, I’m curious what they think about that. Yeah.
346 00:42:10.480 ⇒ 00:42:17.170 Uttam Kumaran: Because I asked them. I said, at what point is it worth going vertical like deeper into data? Should we also do? AI? They said
347 00:42:17.560 ⇒ 00:42:23.510 Uttam Kumaran: frankly, it doesn’t fucking matter. You need to make 40% gross margin. You need to be at 20 million.
348 00:42:23.700 ⇒ 00:42:24.570 Uttam Kumaran: and it does not.
349 00:42:24.570 ⇒ 00:42:26.180 Payas Parab (TikTok): And none of the other stuff matters.
350 00:42:26.180 ⇒ 00:42:42.690 Uttam Kumaran: She said, like all of that is fine. But she said, there’s there’s 2 types of transactions. There’s 1 transaction where a larger company is trying to get into a space meaning they want a platform. How she described it. X. Consulting wants to get into snowflake services. So they buy us.
351 00:42:42.930 ⇒ 00:42:47.209 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing is what you said, where they’re trying to add on labor.
352 00:42:47.850 ⇒ 00:42:56.239 Uttam Kumaran: And they just want to like, add a book of business, and they’re gonna pay a multiple for that. That’s the only 2 types of transactions that happen in this industry. And
353 00:42:56.660 ⇒ 00:43:02.520 Uttam Kumaran: they’re like, it’s purely based on your margin, your revenue growth, and like, if there’s any.
354 00:43:02.520 ⇒ 00:43:08.420 Payas Parab (TikTok): You’re saying we want to hit 20 million right? 20 million dollars. How many Edens do we have to stack
355 00:43:09.250 ⇒ 00:43:11.840 Payas Parab (TikTok): to get to 20 million dollars is my question to you.
356 00:43:12.160 ⇒ 00:43:30.539 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I know, I mean, look, we are at a we are. We will basically be at a million and run rate right now. I did the math cause I cause I literally texted. I texted Robert that 20 million is a number. He was like, Bro, what? And I’m like, that’s like, gonna take so long. And I’m like, yeah, it’s gonna at 50% growth. It’s gonna take 7.2 years.
357 00:43:31.100 ⇒ 00:43:32.000 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
358 00:43:32.320 ⇒ 00:43:34.799 Uttam Kumaran: And then. But I said, what about a hundred percent growth?
359 00:43:35.710 ⇒ 00:43:39.609 Uttam Kumaran: Then it takes 3, 3 years. And I said, Okay.
360 00:43:39.770 ⇒ 00:43:47.760 Uttam Kumaran: that’s it. I don’t get. I I want to challenge the fact that people don’t think it’s to be done, not the fact that it has to be done.
361 00:43:49.210 ⇒ 00:43:49.980 Payas Parab (TikTok): They had to get loud.
362 00:43:49.980 ⇒ 00:43:54.950 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like meaning, people may say, Oh, my God, 20 million. I’m like.
363 00:43:55.100 ⇒ 00:44:02.379 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, that’s like 3. That’s 3 years away. If we grow 100 year over year. So the problem is grow a hundred percent year over year.
364 00:44:02.870 ⇒ 00:44:06.160 Uttam Kumaran: Not wait 7 years. I’m not gonna wait 7, like
365 00:44:06.300 ⇒ 00:44:08.709 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we’re gonna we’re gonna just do that like.
366 00:44:08.710 ⇒ 00:44:09.190 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
367 00:44:09.190 ⇒ 00:44:18.099 Uttam Kumaran: So how is a good question? Right? I don’t. I’m not convinced yet that we need to raise, because that’s a that’s something we can’t roll back.
368 00:44:19.010 ⇒ 00:44:20.889 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sure. Sure that’s a fair. That’s fair.
369 00:44:20.890 ⇒ 00:44:36.290 Uttam Kumaran: We can’t roll back end, but it’s like for me and Robert both, and the reason why we went to this accelerator and I have to. I have to jump this design. The reason why we went to this accelerator is because they push their companies to find a successful outcome within 5 years.
370 00:44:36.450 ⇒ 00:44:36.890 Payas Parab (TikTok): Got it.
371 00:44:36.890 ⇒ 00:44:38.210 Uttam Kumaran: Joining the accelerator.
372 00:44:38.460 ⇒ 00:44:56.209 Uttam Kumaran: and I think both of us are fairly aligned on that which which sets everything up with an orientation which means we have, we have a like a finish line. The problem with startups is they don’t have the finish line, is Ipo, which means you’re gonna die along the way.
373 00:44:56.210 ⇒ 00:44:56.900 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
374 00:44:56.900 ⇒ 00:45:07.150 Uttam Kumaran: Or you’re gonna get bought along the way. But dude, there’s not many companies that can buy 100 million dollar companies. There’s not many companies that can buy 500. And there’s not many companies that can buy a billion. Which means.
375 00:45:07.890 ⇒ 00:45:11.750 Uttam Kumaran: if you get past that, you’re kind of in it forever.
376 00:45:12.340 ⇒ 00:45:12.859 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s right.
377 00:45:12.860 ⇒ 00:45:14.950 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re like grab, if you’re like, grab
378 00:45:15.050 ⇒ 00:45:17.309 Uttam Kumaran: you either win or you die.
379 00:45:17.490 ⇒ 00:45:18.229 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
380 00:45:18.230 ⇒ 00:45:27.410 Uttam Kumaran: If you’re Doordash, you either win or you die so. But, like in my world, I don’t need to think like that like I don’t need to set myself up for like.
381 00:45:27.410 ⇒ 00:45:30.180 Payas Parab (TikTok): And just how many and how many years are we winning? Kind of thing.
382 00:45:30.900 ⇒ 00:45:42.409 Uttam Kumaran: For me. It’s like in how soon can we win? How can everybody win here versus? What are the odds of a billy? I don’t wanna? I don’t want to play for those odds like right now. I don’t want to play. I want to win.
383 00:45:42.740 ⇒ 00:45:43.060 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
384 00:45:44.030 ⇒ 00:45:47.949 Uttam Kumaran: And if you take, if we take the money, the expectation gets set at a point which
385 00:45:48.050 ⇒ 00:45:52.899 Uttam Kumaran: it’s, it’s harder like. It’s harder to get a hunt to 100 million than it is to get to 20.
386 00:45:54.100 ⇒ 00:45:54.470 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
387 00:45:54.470 ⇒ 00:46:05.879 Uttam Kumaran: it was hard. It’s really hard to get to a million really hard to. But like, if we raise a bunch of money, this expectations get changed and you have to. You have to start to like, re underwrite your expectations.
388 00:46:05.880 ⇒ 00:46:06.370 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
389 00:46:07.450 ⇒ 00:46:10.310 Uttam Kumaran: And 20 million is a lot dude. I this was
390 00:46:10.740 ⇒ 00:46:15.509 Uttam Kumaran: so what the fuck? It’s not like I get that we you can say 1 billion. But like dude.
391 00:46:15.660 ⇒ 00:46:19.160 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I would be happy with like a million dollar like it’s like, but.
392 00:46:19.160 ⇒ 00:46:20.469 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah, insanely, yeah.
393 00:46:20.470 ⇒ 00:46:23.119 Uttam Kumaran: Get these. Think, boys on? Twitter twisted. They’re all.
394 00:46:23.120 ⇒ 00:46:24.330 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, exactly.
395 00:46:24.830 ⇒ 00:46:31.789 Uttam Kumaran: So they’re all talk people on Twitter love to be like. Oh, my God! They just raised this much this much. Yo, you are on a W. 2 brother
396 00:46:31.970 ⇒ 00:46:32.510 Uttam Kumaran: like.
397 00:46:32.510 ⇒ 00:46:33.260 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
398 00:46:33.720 ⇒ 00:46:46.339 Uttam Kumaran: Their life is actually like a million dollars is a lot of money to change and like. Imagine if we did 20, and imagine if I could change everybody in the employee, like all of our employees, lives.
399 00:46:46.850 ⇒ 00:46:47.530 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
400 00:46:47.920 ⇒ 00:46:53.090 Uttam Kumaran: That’s like, I think, a reasonable goal like I don’t want to risk the ego.
401 00:46:53.450 ⇒ 00:46:54.370 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, agreed.
402 00:46:54.370 ⇒ 00:46:58.290 Uttam Kumaran: To jeopardize that I feel for the 1st one
403 00:46:59.330 ⇒ 00:47:04.520 Uttam Kumaran: cause. Once you get the 1st one dude. If we’re good, then we start thinking, you start thinking.
404 00:47:04.520 ⇒ 00:47:06.830 Payas Parab (TikTok): Then we’re building robots. We’re building humanoid robots.
405 00:47:06.830 ⇒ 00:47:12.449 Uttam Kumaran: We chill here? And you’re like, Okay, should we do the robots? Or should we do the should we do satellites, or should we do the Mars thing like what.
406 00:47:12.805 ⇒ 00:47:13.870 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, that’s fair.
407 00:47:13.870 ⇒ 00:47:38.489 Uttam Kumaran: And that’s how these guys think. Because but like I, I do think that some people got lucky, like some of the big guys that got lucky with like being at Paypal or being at something. We’re not. We’re not that lucky. But you’ll see a lot of those. A lot of the big Vcs, too. You look at their 1st company. They were like I was a Pm. Like a consultant, and then it worked. And then they’re like, okay, let’s do it again. Then it worked, and then the next. Then you probably saw them at their 4th one.
408 00:47:38.790 ⇒ 00:47:39.960 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah, that’s fair.
409 00:47:39.960 ⇒ 00:47:41.580 Uttam Kumaran: But you look at, they’re just like
410 00:47:41.890 ⇒ 00:47:48.050 Uttam Kumaran: they’re mid twenties. Pm, somewhere at like Facebook. And those guys, we’re not those guys. I’m not that guy like I.
411 00:47:48.050 ⇒ 00:47:48.530 Payas Parab (TikTok): Right.
412 00:47:48.530 ⇒ 00:47:52.079 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not can’t be so lucky, you know. Not so we have to.
413 00:47:52.080 ⇒ 00:47:52.480 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
414 00:47:52.480 ⇒ 00:47:56.950 Uttam Kumaran: Manufacture the 1st win here and like, get that for me. That’s my psychology a little bit.
415 00:47:56.950 ⇒ 00:47:58.010 Payas Parab (TikTok): Fair fair enough.
416 00:47:58.460 ⇒ 00:48:01.760 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, I’m not trying. I’m just trying to play the other side. I totally like
417 00:48:02.350 ⇒ 00:48:08.120 Uttam Kumaran: it’s I wish I was playing with like a ton of house money, but like, it’s yeah.
418 00:48:08.120 ⇒ 00:48:24.549 Payas Parab (TikTok): I’m totally lined on like the like. The the house money for the purposes of like jerking yourself off. Bad idea the the house money for like just feeling willy nilly about spending also stupid. Right? I’m like, is there a thoughtful way to put the capital to work that
419 00:48:24.550 ⇒ 00:48:25.060 Payas Parab (TikTok): us
420 00:48:25.060 ⇒ 00:48:38.419 Payas Parab (TikTok): of that we don’t close off the conversation. That’s that’s more what I’m thinking less. So like, like, trust me, the guys where you’re like, you know, their companies. And they’re like, right on Linkedin, like we raised a fucking 5 million dollars. You ask them, what do you do? And they’re like.
421 00:48:39.310 ⇒ 00:48:40.939 Payas Parab (TikTok): you know, we go to conferences.
422 00:48:41.555 ⇒ 00:48:46.400 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, company. Yeah, that was my previous company. And so.
423 00:48:47.150 ⇒ 00:48:52.469 Uttam Kumaran: but also it’s like we, there’s other vehicles like, I think, could we get a credit line for a million dollars, maybe.
424 00:48:53.260 ⇒ 00:48:56.650 Uttam Kumaran: Do we need like, could we? Could we raise some debt? Maybe like.
425 00:48:56.940 ⇒ 00:49:04.169 Uttam Kumaran: that’s where I think we’re we’re probably like me and Robert have to talk about like we’re we were thinking about something around raising some amount of money.
426 00:49:05.013 ⇒ 00:49:07.486 Uttam Kumaran: Just to like, take the edge off.
427 00:49:08.990 ⇒ 00:49:12.679 Uttam Kumaran: I consider that like what that could look like
428 00:49:12.800 ⇒ 00:49:15.039 Uttam Kumaran: in terms of for M. For what purpose?
429 00:49:15.420 ⇒ 00:49:17.150 Uttam Kumaran: I think it’s just gotta be the
430 00:49:17.300 ⇒ 00:49:28.320 Uttam Kumaran: cause dude. I think brain force has a leverage in terms of hiring. I don’t think we figured it out like internally like how to run the business quite yet, but I think
431 00:49:28.680 ⇒ 00:49:33.959 Uttam Kumaran: it’s not. An it’s not an engineer’s market anymore, like, I don’t have to pay.
432 00:49:34.500 ⇒ 00:49:37.889 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna only pay the top dollar for the best people
433 00:49:38.130 ⇒ 00:49:45.749 Uttam Kumaran: everyone else like you can’t come in and jerk me for that much, because go find it. Find another 300 K. Gig.
434 00:49:45.970 ⇒ 00:49:46.860 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
435 00:49:47.030 ⇒ 00:49:52.870 Uttam Kumaran: I wanna find folks like you that are like dude. We’ll end. I’ll Pm. And I’ll fucking sell. Then I’m like yo. And then.
436 00:49:52.870 ⇒ 00:49:54.939 Payas Parab (TikTok): And it’s not about the money in the short term, right? As if we get to.
437 00:49:54.940 ⇒ 00:49:56.920 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s a that’s a larger thing.
438 00:49:56.920 ⇒ 00:50:06.850 Payas Parab (TikTok): Team with you and Robert like. That’s where I’m like I literally was like, and I’m not even. I still stand by this. By the way. Like, if you’re like. Javi became unprofitable, like, just cut my pay. I’m fine with that, like no joke like
439 00:50:07.427 ⇒ 00:50:08.740 Payas Parab (TikTok): you can just do it. It’s fine.
440 00:50:08.740 ⇒ 00:50:14.950 Uttam Kumaran: No. But also, it’s like we’re not gonna fail because we like clocked in a couple more hours like this is what I told someone else, too. I’m like
441 00:50:15.190 ⇒ 00:50:25.169 Uttam Kumaran: that. If if we got we forget, put in the coffin, because, like someone over Bill, like 5 h and Joby, we’re fucked anyway. So it’s not about that. It’s more about like
442 00:50:25.650 ⇒ 00:50:32.409 Uttam Kumaran: every day here feels like a month for me. But how do we? How do we like I dude? I hired.
443 00:50:32.850 ⇒ 00:50:37.689 Payas Parab (TikTok): I hired 6, or I don’t know how many fucking people I just hired.
444 00:50:38.480 ⇒ 00:50:39.270 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
445 00:50:39.650 ⇒ 00:50:56.690 Uttam Kumaran: All of those people are taking a cut to come work for us at a chance at something bigger and not like a startup where I’m like, we’re gonna I’m like, I promise you, you’re gonna get hard problems. You’re gonna get leadership opportunities. And we’re gonna share the winnings with people.
446 00:50:57.390 ⇒ 00:51:11.840 Uttam Kumaran: But also I hire people in such a non conventional way. 2 conversations. I amber who I hired, who you meet. I probably gonna have her Pm. For pool, part absolute animal. She’s just like I could do anything. Talk to her on what Robert talked to her on Tuesday I talked to her.
447 00:51:12.240 ⇒ 00:51:15.460 Uttam Kumaran: Robert talked to her on Monday. I talked to her on Tuesday. She started working yesterday.
448 00:51:15.680 ⇒ 00:51:22.319 Uttam Kumaran: There’s no Comp. There’s not many companies in the Us. That will move that fast. Oh, I have to talk to Hr. Oh, we have to get our contract blah blah.
449 00:51:22.320 ⇒ 00:51:22.920 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, yeah.
450 00:51:23.380 ⇒ 00:51:25.719 Uttam Kumaran: Right. So I hired 6 people
451 00:51:25.920 ⇒ 00:51:31.509 Uttam Kumaran: all pretty good in engineering and pm, in a month and a half, and they’re all starting.
452 00:51:31.710 ⇒ 00:51:36.890 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s that’s like I can’t move faster. I don’t. I never been a place that’s moved fast. Maybe
453 00:51:37.000 ⇒ 00:51:40.380 Uttam Kumaran: Tesla, or like the open eye, moves faster. But like.
454 00:51:40.380 ⇒ 00:51:41.230 Payas Parab (TikTok): Sure.
455 00:51:41.910 ⇒ 00:51:45.989 Uttam Kumaran: I’m moving faster, purely because I’m not sleeping like that’s it, you know.
456 00:51:47.580 ⇒ 00:51:48.250 Uttam Kumaran: But like.
457 00:51:48.470 ⇒ 00:51:56.959 Uttam Kumaran: But well, that’s what I mean is like that’s our competitive advantage is our ability to move fast. Get the good people, rip me and Robert out of the clients.
458 00:51:57.240 ⇒ 00:52:00.780 Uttam Kumaran: Cause, then I could go. Think about this right.
459 00:52:00.780 ⇒ 00:52:01.550 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
460 00:52:01.550 ⇒ 00:52:09.249 Uttam Kumaran: But I don’t wanna make a decision like that until we’re really like, okay, cool. We’re gonna action on it. We’re gonna but dude. I don’t know we’ve I made it this far
461 00:52:10.450 ⇒ 00:52:14.830 Uttam Kumaran: like working this hard, and it seems like things are gonna get easier for me and Robert.
462 00:52:15.060 ⇒ 00:52:18.819 Uttam Kumaran: Imagine what we could do if we had, like 4 HA day, empty.
463 00:52:19.110 ⇒ 00:52:19.540 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
464 00:52:19.540 ⇒ 00:52:21.550 Uttam Kumaran: I’m not gonna take a nap. I’m gonna go.
465 00:52:21.550 ⇒ 00:52:22.070 Payas Parab (TikTok): Carry on.
466 00:52:22.950 ⇒ 00:52:23.470 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
467 00:52:23.470 ⇒ 00:52:28.870 Uttam Kumaran: So I I don’t know, like I’m sort of challenged to think that we need that.
468 00:52:29.660 ⇒ 00:52:31.110 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah, it’s fair.
469 00:52:32.340 ⇒ 00:52:35.769 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know. It’s good. It’s this is good conversation. I love this I like, I I like.
470 00:52:35.770 ⇒ 00:52:38.390 Uttam Kumaran: I like, push back and like to think about it, because.
471 00:52:38.636 ⇒ 00:52:46.759 Payas Parab (TikTok): I like, if I could just spend hours just ripping all the work. But I know my value isn’t just necessarily that I know my value is like a little bit beyond that.
472 00:52:46.760 ⇒ 00:53:00.079 Uttam Kumaran: I know. But yeah, and I wanna and I, for people that know their worth. I want them to to prove it and get a cut of it, not what happens in startups which you’re an mle, and you get 300 k. Out the gate, and then you.
473 00:53:00.200 ⇒ 00:53:03.480 Uttam Kumaran: It takes 3 months to onboard. I don’t want those people.
474 00:53:03.870 ⇒ 00:53:04.320 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
475 00:53:04.320 ⇒ 00:53:13.028 Uttam Kumaran: Interested in those people. There may be one mle who’s there who’s like Worth? 3 of those should get 900, and they should fire everyone else.
476 00:53:13.340 ⇒ 00:53:20.661 Payas Parab (TikTok): I always said that at Tiktok I was like, we just get rid of these 2 people and just give this guy a 50 K. Bonus, and we’ll be ripping next year.
477 00:53:20.890 ⇒ 00:53:30.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah dude, that guy will literally cry and be like dude. I’m not. I’m gonna go get an adderall prescription right now. And like, I’m gonna make this 50 K, the best 50 k. This.
478 00:53:30.560 ⇒ 00:53:31.070 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
479 00:53:31.070 ⇒ 00:53:38.519 Uttam Kumaran: That that never happens in business. It’s so. It’s so odd. That’s why I want to run this more like car dealership. I like a bank.
480 00:53:38.840 ⇒ 00:53:45.330 Uttam Kumaran: but like without without the drama, with just. The the incentive drive is what I really like about those places.
481 00:53:45.800 ⇒ 00:53:46.450 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
482 00:53:47.540 ⇒ 00:53:48.080 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
483 00:53:48.080 ⇒ 00:53:53.849 Uttam Kumaran: people more reward per person. And then having a clear goal of like Yo, I want to make everybody rich here.
484 00:53:53.850 ⇒ 00:53:54.360 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
485 00:53:54.660 ⇒ 00:53:56.010 Uttam Kumaran: Fast as possible.
486 00:53:56.680 ⇒ 00:53:57.390 Payas Parab (TikTok): Now.
487 00:53:57.670 ⇒ 00:53:58.939 Payas Parab (TikTok): Fair enough, man.
488 00:53:59.220 ⇒ 00:54:02.270 Payas Parab (TikTok): Well, I will let you. You have a design meeting. I don’t wanna make you feel.
489 00:54:02.270 ⇒ 00:54:06.020 Uttam Kumaran: I have a design, minis, but this is great. I love this com. Thank you. This is a great conversation.
490 00:54:06.020 ⇒ 00:54:08.660 Payas Parab (TikTok): I’m happy, too. Man always love it all right.
491 00:54:09.260 ⇒ 00:54:11.789 Uttam Kumaran: Let me know about the job. Let me know about the couple of joby things.
492 00:54:12.130 ⇒ 00:54:12.749 Uttam Kumaran: It’s a deal.
493 00:54:13.395 ⇒ 00:54:14.040 Payas Parab (TikTok): Yeah.
494 00:54:14.410 ⇒ 00:54:14.779 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
495 00:54:14.780 ⇒ 00:54:16.340 Payas Parab (TikTok): Cool man, thanks, dude! See ya.
496 00:54:16.340 ⇒ 00:54:17.280 Uttam Kumaran: Thank you. Bye.