Meeting Title: Brainforge_Keyan Yassini Date: 2025-02-20 Meeting participants: Keyan Yassini, Uttam Kumaran
WEBVTT
1 00:05:13.080 ⇒ 00:05:14.110 Uttam Kumaran: My guy.
2 00:05:15.070 ⇒ 00:05:16.940 Keyan Yassini: Hey? Hey! How’s it going? Dude?
3 00:05:17.100 ⇒ 00:05:19.720 Uttam Kumaran: You look good. How are you?
4 00:05:19.960 ⇒ 00:05:22.879 Keyan Yassini: Good. Bro, we’re fucking Vancouver right now.
5 00:05:22.880 ⇒ 00:05:25.230 Uttam Kumaran: Whoa, dude! You’re moving around what’s good.
6 00:05:25.656 ⇒ 00:05:26.933 Keyan Yassini: Dude, I just
7 00:05:27.540 ⇒ 00:05:40.520 Keyan Yassini: and like this time of a year, for like workday is pretty slow, because, like, there’s a bunch of changes and stuff happening like I told you about. So I kind of was like, I’m gonna just maximize. I’m gonna trip. Max.
8 00:05:40.830 ⇒ 00:05:45.559 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, well, I didn’t. Yeah. I didn’t know whether you were just traveling for work, or it was actually like
9 00:05:46.270 ⇒ 00:05:48.430 Uttam Kumaran: just going new places and chilling.
10 00:05:48.430 ⇒ 00:06:04.280 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, just going to new places. There’s like a comedy festival type of thing happening over here. So there’s this dude that dresses up like a like a goblin. And he does like stand up comedy. And he has a podcast and he’s fucking.
11 00:06:04.500 ⇒ 00:06:07.010 Keyan Yassini: His name is John Goblin.
12 00:06:10.750 ⇒ 00:06:12.429 Keyan Yassini: So oh.
13 00:06:12.430 ⇒ 00:06:21.139 Keyan Yassini: I was like, you know what I haven’t been to Vancouver, and like, you know, the city sounds and looks really cool, and it’s like very beautiful here. So I just wanted to.
14 00:06:21.140 ⇒ 00:06:23.099 Uttam Kumaran: Thanks. I was just there. Dude, it’s so nice.
15 00:06:23.100 ⇒ 00:06:29.109 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, Bro, it’s it’s really cool. So I’m at the fucking. I’m at the Fairmont. I’m living it up.
16 00:06:29.110 ⇒ 00:06:34.370 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, that’s sick. Dude. It’s actually so nice. There.
17 00:06:34.370 ⇒ 00:06:35.170 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
18 00:06:35.430 ⇒ 00:06:39.400 Uttam Kumaran: It’s like a perfect little town. It’s like Seattle kind of like feeling.
19 00:06:39.400 ⇒ 00:07:00.320 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, well, it’s honestly, it kind of gives me like San Francisco vibes, too. There’s a lot of tech here. And I guess so. So, Seattle. But yeah, it’s it’s a it’s a really cool spot. I’m excited. I just got here like, I don’t know 40 min ago. So After this call, I think I’m gonna head out and just go explore for a little bit before the the sun goes down and.
20 00:07:00.320 ⇒ 00:07:01.170 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
21 00:07:01.170 ⇒ 00:07:01.960 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
22 00:07:02.210 ⇒ 00:07:11.800 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. So, Robert, we- we are working on this client, and it’s been kind of insane. So Robert just said he can’t make it. I think he’s he’s basically like dude. I’m a migraine. I can’t talk right now.
23 00:07:11.800 ⇒ 00:07:12.920 Keyan Yassini: Okay. All good.
24 00:07:13.175 ⇒ 00:07:19.039 Uttam Kumaran: So we can be quick. But yeah, I guess. Like, since our last conversation like, Tell me what you think about workday stuff.
25 00:07:19.430 ⇒ 00:07:20.000 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
26 00:07:20.000 ⇒ 00:07:22.159 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of how things are.
27 00:07:22.390 ⇒ 00:07:27.089 Uttam Kumaran: Things haven’t changed a lot on our side, but a little bit so.
28 00:07:27.870 ⇒ 00:07:35.229 Keyan Yassini: Yeah. So I told you, like, there was going to be some like reshuffling. And like, I was gonna figure out, basically what my
29 00:07:35.530 ⇒ 00:07:44.719 Keyan Yassini: kind of future looks like at the company. And so basically, I got moved to the healthcare team
30 00:07:44.870 ⇒ 00:08:12.510 Keyan Yassini: supporting the customer base, and that basically entails. Almost nothing like my job has become basically 0 dude. Like when I talk to account executives and I talked to, they have like overlays that also work kind of like the account executives work the really big deals like the multi 1 million dollar stuff. Then they have what they call digital account executives that are basically the overlays. They work a lot of the smaller deals.
31 00:08:12.510 ⇒ 00:08:22.679 Keyan Yassini: I have 6 account executives 2 of those digital account executives. So like 8 people, I support total. And everyone that I talk to, they’re basically like, yeah. So
32 00:08:22.680 ⇒ 00:08:34.609 Keyan Yassini: there’s not much for you to do. But like, if there’s anything like, we’ll just if we like, have any meetings or anything like that, like we’ll get you to open up like the opportunities. We’ll have you open up meetings and stuff. So
33 00:08:35.066 ⇒ 00:08:40.109 Keyan Yassini: on one hand, it’s really cool, because the people in this like vertical and
34 00:08:40.681 ⇒ 00:08:58.589 Keyan Yassini: like people that support the customer base. They do like really well, like, they crush their number like 200 250%, which is great. But you know, with the changes that they announced they announced a new change. Where last year
35 00:08:58.690 ⇒ 00:09:13.810 Keyan Yassini: it used to be that at the start of the fiscal year you know, beginning of February, they announced, like what everyone’s like annual goals are and so as like an Sdr. Bdr. Whatever they, I’m on a quarterly quota.
36 00:09:13.890 ⇒ 00:09:32.510 Keyan Yassini: they tell you your quarterly quota up until basically Q, 4, they change it this year, so that now they’re only releasing it quarter by quarter. So in a couple like, I think it would 2 weeks. I’ll basically get what my goals are for this quarter. q. 1.
37 00:09:32.670 ⇒ 00:09:45.589 Keyan Yassini: And then a week or 2 before Q. 2. They’re gonna tell us what our number is for. Q. 2. So super super rough, actually, because essentially what what that means is.
38 00:09:45.950 ⇒ 00:10:11.200 Keyan Yassini: if I have forecasted, or if I have like in pipe, say 180% of my number for Q 2, they can basically look at that information and adjust my quota based off of that. So whereas, like, if I had pipe for like 180%, they could essentially inflate my quota to where now, I’m actually at like 90% or like 80% of my number.
39 00:10:11.200 ⇒ 00:10:12.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
40 00:10:12.040 ⇒ 00:10:19.250 Keyan Yassini: So it’s super fuck shit but where? Where I’m really like thinking about right now is like, Okay.
41 00:10:22.090 ⇒ 00:10:41.820 Keyan Yassini: I basically am not going to be doing anything with my job like with where I was at last year. I really needed to spend a lot of time and like, spend like this good like 6 h, 8 HA day, like actually prospecting, actually cold calling people and like doing like, you know? Bdr, work.
42 00:10:42.340 ⇒ 00:10:50.780 Keyan Yassini: Now, I’m not gonna do that like, I’m gonna be probably working like, actually, maybe like 2 HA day. So
43 00:10:51.170 ⇒ 00:11:04.500 Keyan Yassini: my head is telling me like to just basically do both get started and because, like obviously, like the the benefits are like great and.
44 00:11:04.500 ⇒ 00:11:05.079 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
45 00:11:05.080 ⇒ 00:11:23.249 Keyan Yassini: Like a really big like thing like, obviously, that’s a that’s a big part of the comp, right? So if I can kind of just coast, and, you know, take advantage of of that. Then, like, why not, you know, like I? If I didn’t have to be in the office, I could have 100% basically work. Another full time job.
46 00:11:23.250 ⇒ 00:11:24.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah.
47 00:11:24.560 ⇒ 00:11:27.120 Keyan Yassini: So I think what I want to do
48 00:11:27.260 ⇒ 00:11:48.460 Keyan Yassini: to get started is really just I know, like we we kind of did this before, and like I wasn’t able to support you in the way that, like I would, you know, really want to, and like you would want to as well, but I think now I’m in a really unique opportunity where I think I’ll be able to do it very well and effectively. So to get started, I think I’m gonna do both.
49 00:11:48.500 ⇒ 00:11:57.290 Keyan Yassini: I wanna you know, maximize the amount of time I spend with you, and like, kind of actually take workday kind of in the kind of like in the background backseat.
50 00:11:57.590 ⇒ 00:12:01.700 Keyan Yassini: And to get started. I I’d really like to.
51 00:12:01.830 ⇒ 00:12:16.190 Keyan Yassini: you know. I looked over some of the notes and kind of like your marketing goals, your your sales, goals, and kind of where you want to have your monthly pipeline sitting at. And I think, pretty much. All of them are. They’re pretty attainable. They’re nothing crazy, you know, so.
52 00:12:16.190 ⇒ 00:12:21.929 Uttam Kumaran: Like. So we we’re doing so to give you a sense, we’re gonna hit that. And I’m spending
53 00:12:22.620 ⇒ 00:12:28.230 Uttam Kumaran: 2 h or less on sales. Robert is spending less than 25% of his time on.
54 00:12:29.200 ⇒ 00:12:30.450 Uttam Kumaran: And we’re gonna hit that.
55 00:12:30.450 ⇒ 00:12:31.150 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
56 00:12:31.360 ⇒ 00:12:31.869 Uttam Kumaran: Are you gonna.
57 00:12:31.870 ⇒ 00:12:32.700 Keyan Yassini: Did that.
58 00:12:32.890 ⇒ 00:12:37.250 Keyan Yassini: I think it was like 600 k. Like in in like a.
59 00:12:37.250 ⇒ 00:12:46.579 Uttam Kumaran: Dude. We’re like we we are. We are like there are still deals coming our way, that we are just not acting on partially, because I’m like
60 00:12:46.990 ⇒ 00:13:01.779 Uttam Kumaran: shit we are building like I had to hire dude. I’m hiring one person a day on the engineering side, one person a week on engineering side. So we’re we’re scaling that team a lot. Basically, that’s like making sure that any deal that comes in can get executed on.
61 00:13:01.780 ⇒ 00:13:02.300 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
62 00:13:02.300 ⇒ 00:13:16.000 Uttam Kumaran: Second piece is is sales, where we we did a big push. We got a bunch of business, and then we kind of stopped, mainly because we’re servicing the business we have. That’s rough, like, I think, but our dude. We have a ton of
63 00:13:16.120 ⇒ 00:13:24.560 Uttam Kumaran: vendor partners referral partners like we have positioning. We have great like clients that you could reference.
64 00:13:24.840 ⇒ 00:13:36.669 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t. I don’t think sales is any longer are like core issue. Meaning like, I think there’s a huge opportunity. Just come in and like Rip, it basically.
65 00:13:36.820 ⇒ 00:13:37.450 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
66 00:13:37.450 ⇒ 00:13:44.430 Uttam Kumaran: We have product. We now very clear pricing offerings, like very clear process by which we go after accounts.
67 00:13:45.177 ⇒ 00:13:49.299 Uttam Kumaran: The business has like more clout. So like people pick up the calls
68 00:13:49.770 ⇒ 00:13:57.619 Uttam Kumaran: and stuff like that. And we’re doing like, no, nothing on this like I’m not. I’m just purely doing the actual work at the moment. So.
69 00:13:57.620 ⇒ 00:13:58.620 Keyan Yassini: Right? Right?
70 00:13:59.330 ⇒ 00:14:03.010 Keyan Yassini: So yeah, I mean that, that’s all. That’s all great. So I think.
71 00:14:03.140 ⇒ 00:14:22.229 Keyan Yassini: like, Yeah, I’m I’m happy to. I’m happy to get started like honestly next week, and just start ripping the phones and start, you know, meeting with people that you haven’t met yet, or you know, however, you want like helping progress. Pipeline. My only concern is like, obviously, I don’t have any real knowledge in terms of like, you know, any of
72 00:14:22.730 ⇒ 00:14:27.529 Keyan Yassini: stuff, any of the AI stuff. But you know, that’s that’s stuff that I can learn, you know, and.
73 00:14:27.530 ⇒ 00:14:32.549 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, how did you feel when you bought went to work day? Because you’re selling the most boring software?
74 00:14:33.628 ⇒ 00:14:35.019 Uttam Kumaran: Planet Earth right now like
75 00:14:35.910 ⇒ 00:14:43.429 Uttam Kumaran: Erp, it’s like, oh, so it’s but it’s also you probably didn’t know what Erp was like a few years ago, right like.
76 00:14:43.830 ⇒ 00:14:44.680 Keyan Yassini: No, for sure.
77 00:14:44.680 ⇒ 00:14:52.170 Uttam Kumaran: Similarly, you know, like, Oh, you could do blah blah planning. We have this module. We have that integration. Blah blah! This like kind of it’s like, all the same stuff.
78 00:14:53.010 ⇒ 00:14:56.620 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah, and I think, it’s gonna be.
79 00:14:56.620 ⇒ 00:14:58.440 Uttam Kumaran: Simpler right? Because
80 00:14:59.070 ⇒ 00:15:11.330 Uttam Kumaran: for us we now have more. We don’t walk into clients anymore where it’s like we take every call. And we do have. Now this is compared to 3 months ago. We do now have pretty clear things that we pitch and the way we we sell
81 00:15:11.929 ⇒ 00:15:17.999 Uttam Kumaran: and we’re start. And also we’ve been recording like every meeting. So there’s kind of stuff to go through
82 00:15:18.375 ⇒ 00:15:22.230 Uttam Kumaran: and then we have a bunch of leads that can just get attacked, basically
83 00:15:23.040 ⇒ 00:15:23.710 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
84 00:15:24.070 ⇒ 00:15:31.680 Uttam Kumaran: I think you’re right on the healthcare piece, probably something that if I had to put a date on it, we will have figured out by like the 3rd quarter at the start.
85 00:15:32.180 ⇒ 00:15:35.089 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just in the list of to do’s.
86 00:15:36.080 ⇒ 00:15:42.489 Uttam Kumaran: It’s not. It’s not like a yeah like I have to figure it out in the next 4 months. This is a big piece.
87 00:15:43.200 ⇒ 00:15:55.690 Uttam Kumaran: One of the big unlocks for us is moving both of me and Robert’s time away from client execution, which will basically allow me to go. Do like all the we have to go, get healthcare. Gotta do a bunch of shit like that.
88 00:15:56.080 ⇒ 00:15:58.430 Uttam Kumaran: and then hiring like bunch more engineers.
89 00:15:59.223 ⇒ 00:16:00.490 Uttam Kumaran: And so
90 00:16:00.900 ⇒ 00:16:17.060 Uttam Kumaran: getting sales especially. Robert, is really good on how we position and how we’re attacking. But we have a lot of love from like other players who want to support us, too, that want to do co marketing that want to do other things like that that
91 00:16:17.180 ⇒ 00:16:20.830 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t see how we would be a problem. We’re one of the few people that
92 00:16:20.980 ⇒ 00:16:28.409 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been in business this long, and I made like a lot of friends through the process. We’re just sitting on those relationships a lot. So I do think that
93 00:16:28.910 ⇒ 00:16:32.779 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a huge amount of pipeline right there, just to go after, too.
94 00:16:33.170 ⇒ 00:16:35.129 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. I mean.
95 00:16:35.130 ⇒ 00:16:38.050 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning. I think you’ll make more here than you would make. There.
96 00:16:38.050 ⇒ 00:16:39.720 Keyan Yassini: No, for sure, for sure.
97 00:16:39.720 ⇒ 00:16:41.039 Uttam Kumaran: Have to figure out.
98 00:16:41.630 ⇒ 00:16:52.650 Uttam Kumaran: I have to figure out the healthcare stuff, and I would I would totally agree with you. I think the biggest thing is like, you know what it takes to sell. If workday changes and it gets more tense.
99 00:16:52.920 ⇒ 00:16:55.989 Uttam Kumaran: then that’ll be a decision right?
100 00:16:55.990 ⇒ 00:16:58.321 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah. And I think, what’s
101 00:16:58.860 ⇒ 00:17:07.049 Keyan Yassini: what’s really cool about, you know, having this, I think to start is, you know, I’m able to really get a gauge, and I.
102 00:17:07.050 ⇒ 00:17:07.849 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, yeah.
103 00:17:07.859 ⇒ 00:17:34.922 Keyan Yassini: Of like the pipeline, all that stuff, and then that’ll honestly give us some pretty clear direction in terms of, like, you know, a attainable sales, metrics. Obviously that, like I can, you know, fully grasp, be what like a fair, you know, commission structure would look like and like, you know, all of those sorts of things as well. So yeah, I’m I’m excited. Dude. I’m I’m down to to get started and get ripping. And
104 00:17:35.379 ⇒ 00:17:36.149 Keyan Yassini: yeah.
105 00:17:36.830 ⇒ 00:17:55.503 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, so let me keep moving things in motion. I I wanna find, still find time for you to meet the 3 of us. But then I’ll see if I can just get you onto stuff. Sometime next week I’ll I’ll work with Robert and send you something that’s like a fair for like an hourly rate. And that way you can come on and start helping us that way.
106 00:17:56.450 ⇒ 00:17:58.889 Uttam Kumaran: yeah, I think we should think about.
107 00:18:00.540 ⇒ 00:18:04.660 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah. I guess, like I’ll have to think about what what it offers for like hourly rate
108 00:18:04.770 ⇒ 00:18:11.600 Uttam Kumaran: and commission on stuff. But I’ll think of something and just put it in front of you. But again, that’s what we kind of need help with, too, is like one
109 00:18:11.830 ⇒ 00:18:15.740 Uttam Kumaran: we need to like set up hubspot. Everything is in notion. It’s kinda like
110 00:18:15.900 ⇒ 00:18:19.290 Uttam Kumaran: it’s clear it’s clear that we’re sort of like small beans. There.
111 00:18:19.290 ⇒ 00:18:19.750 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
112 00:18:20.408 ⇒ 00:18:28.720 Uttam Kumaran: I do think there’s a lot of room to grow there. And then, also just building up playbooks and demo playbooks and and collateral. We have 2 designers on the team
113 00:18:28.980 ⇒ 00:18:32.289 Uttam Kumaran: we’re building out really sick collateral. The shit looks like fire.
114 00:18:32.764 ⇒ 00:18:35.509 Uttam Kumaran: I would buy from us. It looks good. It’s like.
115 00:18:36.180 ⇒ 00:18:38.570 Uttam Kumaran: I can’t even believe that we’ve made some of this stuff.
116 00:18:38.570 ⇒ 00:18:39.010 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
117 00:18:39.010 ⇒ 00:18:42.409 Uttam Kumaran: Oh, I’m proud of that. And like, yeah, I do think that
118 00:18:42.780 ⇒ 00:18:59.870 Uttam Kumaran: we learned a lot from this past experience on like, really what we don’t need. We are. And across the board I realized, Dude, I can. I have to hire just like high agency people. And for me it’s like we set the bar high, but also pay
119 00:18:59.970 ⇒ 00:19:05.830 Uttam Kumaran: appropriately. So even on engineering, we’re gonna start to do incentive based pay across the board.
120 00:19:05.960 ⇒ 00:19:08.600 Uttam Kumaran: meaning like, if you’re killing it.
121 00:19:08.780 ⇒ 00:19:10.630 Uttam Kumaran: Then you make like
122 00:19:10.800 ⇒ 00:19:18.470 Uttam Kumaran: 20% more than like what you would have asked for, Max. But then, on the flip side, if you don’t, then you.
123 00:19:18.600 ⇒ 00:19:21.710 Uttam Kumaran: It’s probably not a good place to stay.
124 00:19:21.710 ⇒ 00:19:22.190 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah.
125 00:19:22.190 ⇒ 00:19:29.229 Uttam Kumaran: Those are the setups we’re trying to do for everyone across the board, because it’s this mentality of like, everybody eats
126 00:19:29.380 ⇒ 00:19:33.700 Uttam Kumaran: right. If the company wins. I’m really committed to like trying to give
127 00:19:33.950 ⇒ 00:19:38.420 Uttam Kumaran: people a shit ton of money and hiring less people.
128 00:19:38.610 ⇒ 00:19:45.039 Uttam Kumaran: Right dude. I some of these deals are twe are now nearing 2030, grand a month.
129 00:19:45.490 ⇒ 00:19:46.640 Keyan Yassini: That’s awesome.
130 00:19:46.640 ⇒ 00:19:49.129 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, which is which is massive.
131 00:19:49.952 ⇒ 00:19:52.309 Uttam Kumaran: And we close some of these in 3 meetings.
132 00:19:52.560 ⇒ 00:19:54.379 Keyan Yassini: Wow, yeah, that’s sick.
133 00:19:54.590 ⇒ 00:20:01.499 Uttam Kumaran: So and we’re we’re, we’re basically like around 50% gross margin, some cases higher.
134 00:20:01.770 ⇒ 00:20:07.100 Uttam Kumaran: So our goal is 50% typically consulting firms run at 30.
135 00:20:08.570 ⇒ 00:20:16.049 Uttam Kumaran: and we’re using every AI tool under the sun like every single thing. So I think there’s a lot of room. We’re just early on the sales side, so.
136 00:20:16.250 ⇒ 00:20:29.159 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, well, so those are the 3 meetings that you’re talking about, like, how long would like an average deal cycle take for you like is that? Is that like, you know, one to 2 weeks? Is it like longer than that? How? How do you see.
137 00:20:29.160 ⇒ 00:20:32.909 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I I think you’ll have to discount a little bit of like
138 00:20:34.420 ⇒ 00:20:48.910 Uttam Kumaran: if if we just don’t have time to write the proposal. It’s gonna take an extra day or 2, right? Probably 50% is probably like shit like that where we just like me and Robert don’t have a chance to talk and like talk about what we should propose or like.
139 00:20:49.360 ⇒ 00:20:54.320 Uttam Kumaran: We. We agree on it, but then it we don’t end up writing it all out. So there’s like time loss. There.
140 00:20:54.320 ⇒ 00:20:54.820 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
141 00:20:54.820 ⇒ 00:20:57.660 Uttam Kumaran: By 50% of it on average. Now, it’s like a month.
142 00:20:57.910 ⇒ 00:20:59.930 Keyan Yassini: Okay, yeah, that’s fire.
143 00:20:59.930 ⇒ 00:21:04.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s me. But I this is where also, you know, we talked about this where.
144 00:21:04.480 ⇒ 00:21:06.090 Uttam Kumaran: And I think this is the thing is
145 00:21:06.760 ⇒ 00:21:33.093 Uttam Kumaran: me and Robert know the business inside and out, which means when we sell it, it’s like there’s not a question you could ask me at this. So that’s the kind of thing we want to look to replicate, basically and like use that through all the process that you’ve learned from basically workday. But again, also, we now have deals that are in the 5,000 a month level. We have stuff that’s higher. We can even, I think we’re under charging like, I think we’re gonna start charging way more
146 00:21:33.770 ⇒ 00:21:42.040 Uttam Kumaran: and people are gonna bite. And the nice thing is the people who go for 20 K. They don’t mind going to 30 K. The following month and going up. It’s the people who are like
147 00:21:42.560 ⇒ 00:21:49.240 Uttam Kumaran: we made the mistake before of going after small beans. They never graduate. So now we only we’re basically only going after people that
148 00:21:49.360 ⇒ 00:21:51.539 Uttam Kumaran: have a chance of graduating.
149 00:21:51.720 ⇒ 00:21:52.230 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
150 00:21:52.230 ⇒ 00:21:57.159 Uttam Kumaran: We don’t. We don’t want to keep keep people on who are just stay stable, because then there’s no growth.
151 00:21:57.350 ⇒ 00:21:59.069 Uttam Kumaran: and we can’t take on more work
152 00:21:59.529 ⇒ 00:22:05.399 Uttam Kumaran: which but means like, there’s a lot in the renewal phase, right? And there’s also components which is renewal.
153 00:22:05.400 ⇒ 00:22:05.900 Keyan Yassini: Right.
154 00:22:05.900 ⇒ 00:22:13.570 Uttam Kumaran: All the work the team does, making a pitch for higher scope, working with the project team and being like, how did it go? What else could we do? Who are the players?
155 00:22:13.570 ⇒ 00:22:15.269 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, expanding the business there.
156 00:22:15.270 ⇒ 00:22:15.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
157 00:22:16.050 ⇒ 00:22:17.323 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, I
158 00:22:19.030 ⇒ 00:22:33.010 Keyan Yassini: How do you like or like, what? What are the like average sizes for some of these companies that you’re saying, like not the small bean ones, but like the ones that you actually see that have like growth potential, are they kind.
159 00:22:33.010 ⇒ 00:22:33.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so we’re.
160 00:22:33.850 ⇒ 00:22:35.080 Keyan Yassini: And be, or.
161 00:22:35.335 ⇒ 00:22:40.710 Uttam Kumaran: So do you have a like, if you if you go to our notions, you see all the clients in there.
162 00:22:40.900 ⇒ 00:22:41.530 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
163 00:22:42.360 ⇒ 00:22:48.280 Uttam Kumaran: These are like. So on the on the Ecom side, it’s companies that are like 20 to 100 million in revenue.
164 00:22:48.280 ⇒ 00:22:48.950 Keyan Yassini: Okay.
165 00:22:48.950 ⇒ 00:22:57.500 Uttam Kumaran: And then on the b 2 b Saas side. It’s like, usually like series C and higher, or if the earlier, they’re just like super high growth. So at least a few 1 million or higher.
166 00:22:58.510 ⇒ 00:23:06.179 Uttam Kumaran: we’re we’re going for people that are at least typically 5 million in revenue and higher, because their alternative to us is hiring a data team at like
167 00:23:06.840 ⇒ 00:23:11.920 Uttam Kumaran: 2 50 to 500 KA month all in for, like everything, we sort of.
168 00:23:12.110 ⇒ 00:23:15.450 Uttam Kumaran: we don’t come in and like, be like you could do it for cheaper. But
169 00:23:15.740 ⇒ 00:23:24.680 Uttam Kumaran: it’s very hard to get folks like us who can have high agency around data problems and be like, start next week. It’s very difficult.
170 00:23:24.850 ⇒ 00:23:35.849 Uttam Kumaran: like you need to hire ahead of data. That person doesn’t write any code that person wants to hire another person, another person. Then they bring the tooling on. Then they get the strategy takes like it’ll take 3 months just to start
171 00:23:36.070 ⇒ 00:23:47.499 Uttam Kumaran: like in in 3 months we will have. We will have clips that, you know. And so people see that when they talk to us. But yeah, we’re going after people with like legit money. And now we have a lot of
172 00:23:47.890 ⇒ 00:23:49.310 Uttam Kumaran: client success.
173 00:23:49.460 ⇒ 00:23:50.000 Keyan Yassini: Right, right.
174 00:23:50.000 ⇒ 00:23:56.829 Uttam Kumaran: Those of the case studies working with our marketing team to create those lead magnets like
175 00:23:57.370 ⇒ 00:24:02.850 Uttam Kumaran: leveraging my Linkedin. All, everything is like on the table, basically. And we haven’t done any of it.
176 00:24:03.290 ⇒ 00:24:03.970 Keyan Yassini: Right.
177 00:24:04.200 ⇒ 00:24:06.210 Uttam Kumaran: You know. So yeah.
178 00:24:06.210 ⇒ 00:24:10.944 Keyan Yassini: Those I know, like you worked with like what was it like like Harry’s?
179 00:24:11.240 ⇒ 00:24:16.959 Uttam Kumaran: We work with like Vita cocoa. We’re working with Eden. They’re like a Ecom glp. One company.
180 00:24:17.140 ⇒ 00:24:35.320 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, so is is that is that like something that, like those size of companies, are those more like the whales that you’re like fishing for, and then kind of also trying to look for the smaller things as well? Or is that like your main focus is trying to, you know, grow and kind of build towards. You. Know those that size of company.
181 00:24:35.320 ⇒ 00:24:48.219 Uttam Kumaran: So we actually don’t we? We are, we disqualified companies that don’t have that type of money. Now we won’t, we won’t, we can’t. We like, we basically do the 3 things we’re like looking, is it this urgent?
182 00:24:48.450 ⇒ 00:24:54.649 Uttam Kumaran: Is it actually matter? And like, like, is it a data problem? And then do they have budget lot of people? It’s
183 00:24:54.940 ⇒ 00:24:58.079 Uttam Kumaran: you have a data problem. And if you can’t afford us, it’s not gonna work
184 00:24:58.682 ⇒ 00:25:06.760 Uttam Kumaran: and so most of the people we’re going for are at that level. We used to work with people that were smaller. 5 KA month, 10 KA month. It’s
185 00:25:06.990 ⇒ 00:25:09.860 Uttam Kumaran: it’s like we could get someone who’s 4 times that.
186 00:25:10.170 ⇒ 00:25:11.760 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s like less work.
187 00:25:13.360 ⇒ 00:25:22.930 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s 1 thing. But then we we do have a 5 k offering. So now, instead of turning people away, we have something that we could sell them. That like is pretty self serve
188 00:25:23.160 ⇒ 00:25:27.639 Uttam Kumaran: that maintains the margin, but is like, Okay, you guys are small. Do this first.st
189 00:25:27.880 ⇒ 00:25:28.290 Keyan Yassini: Right.
190 00:25:28.290 ⇒ 00:25:30.730 Uttam Kumaran: Maybe nurture you as you grow into something bigger.
191 00:25:31.320 ⇒ 00:25:40.360 Keyan Yassini: Okay? And yeah, I mean that. That all sounds great dude like that. That’s awesome. Where? Like.
192 00:25:40.650 ⇒ 00:25:42.249 Keyan Yassini: I’m trying to think, here.
193 00:25:42.250 ⇒ 00:25:44.000 Uttam Kumaran: It’s so broad like.
194 00:25:44.000 ⇒ 00:25:46.390 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, a lot. Right? What about like the
195 00:25:46.390 ⇒ 00:25:52.070 Keyan Yassini: AI stuff? Right? So how many of how many of your, you know customers are around? AI. How many.
196 00:25:52.070 ⇒ 00:26:04.949 Uttam Kumaran: So the AI, the AI we have, we have, we have one. We have 2 clients that we’ve done AI work. One active client, the client is called ABC. Home and Commercial. They’re one of the largest Central Texas home and commercial services companies.
197 00:26:04.950 ⇒ 00:26:05.400 Keyan Yassini: Hmm.
198 00:26:05.400 ⇒ 00:26:10.492 Uttam Kumaran: They do. I don’t know like a lot, right? I don’t know.
199 00:26:11.440 ⇒ 00:26:14.619 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t even know if they’re a private company. Yeah, they
200 00:26:14.840 ⇒ 00:26:17.110 Uttam Kumaran: 150 million. 200 million.
201 00:26:17.260 ⇒ 00:26:18.290 Uttam Kumaran: That’s awesome.
202 00:26:18.730 ⇒ 00:26:20.910 Uttam Kumaran: We are helping them.
203 00:26:21.030 ⇒ 00:26:26.160 Uttam Kumaran: They we’re helping their pest division. And the pest related Csrs
204 00:26:26.600 ⇒ 00:26:38.149 Uttam Kumaran: improve their rate of answering questions on the phone when clients call them of like, where do you guys have this pest service? Where is my technician? Blah blah, we’re building AI agents for that.
205 00:26:38.954 ⇒ 00:26:56.020 Uttam Kumaran: We are so. But the AI division. I started as like I wanted to us to use AI shit, and then I was like, oh, this is actually really hard. We should sell this. We’ve landed 2 clients, but it’s like this is so early, where we really even haven’t decided like what the positioning is.
206 00:26:56.020 ⇒ 00:26:56.350 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
207 00:26:56.350 ⇒ 00:27:04.270 Uttam Kumaran: However, I think this could be a bigger business, short term than the that’d be data business.
208 00:27:04.270 ⇒ 00:27:12.659 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, I mean, dude. That’s kind of what I was thinking also, because, like, we had a we had a work day like Town Hall. Do you have a hard stop at 3? By the way, I mean.
209 00:27:13.740 ⇒ 00:27:15.480 Keyan Yassini: Or right, after whatever time it is.
210 00:27:16.430 ⇒ 00:27:18.200 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, I can keep going for like, 10 min.
211 00:27:18.200 ⇒ 00:27:23.939 Keyan Yassini: Okay, I. We had a we had a company town hall, and they’re talking about
212 00:27:24.140 ⇒ 00:27:28.510 Keyan Yassini: like the these AI agents. And like all of this that’s coming.
213 00:27:28.510 ⇒ 00:27:30.490 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, we build agents for people, yeah.
214 00:27:30.490 ⇒ 00:27:35.800 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, that I feel like is in the next, like, 2 to 5.
215 00:27:35.800 ⇒ 00:27:39.430 Uttam Kumaran: 4 years is the is the number one place. Yeah.
216 00:27:39.430 ⇒ 00:27:41.060 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, so I think, like.
217 00:27:41.060 ⇒ 00:27:51.460 Uttam Kumaran: We we are. We are one of the few us based consultancies that actually can do that and do it at like a not that high of a price.
218 00:27:52.015 ⇒ 00:28:13.200 Uttam Kumaran: Most of these agencies that are doing it are overseas. So they get immediately ruled out. Second is, we want to go. We want to fix. But the problem is we want to figure out the positioning. We have a home service client. We’re also thinking about legal. This company called Harvey AI. That just raised a ton of money we’re thinking about like, can we just implement them? So we’re trying to figure out the positioning. But I agree, I think, that
219 00:28:13.420 ⇒ 00:28:20.690 Uttam Kumaran: there’s a shit ton of money right now. We are like absolutely shooting ourselves by like not selling that those services.
220 00:28:20.690 ⇒ 00:28:21.110 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
221 00:28:22.230 ⇒ 00:28:27.319 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, cause they’re they talk about how? Like, right? You need all of that data to basically.
222 00:28:27.320 ⇒ 00:28:27.850 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
223 00:28:27.850 ⇒ 00:28:30.339 Keyan Yassini: All of these agents, and like.
224 00:28:30.900 ⇒ 00:28:35.770 Uttam Kumaran: The overall pitch is that we come in and we do your AI. But then we recognize a data problem.
225 00:28:36.020 ⇒ 00:28:36.360 Keyan Yassini: Right.
226 00:28:36.450 ⇒ 00:28:43.940 Uttam Kumaran: Data. But then we recognize there’s an AI like AI opportunity, and there’s no firm that does both that I know of
227 00:28:44.510 ⇒ 00:28:45.760 Uttam Kumaran: in the Us.
228 00:28:45.760 ⇒ 00:28:46.140 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
229 00:28:46.140 ⇒ 00:28:51.640 Keyan Yassini: except for, like Mckinsey, those guys, you know, they do everything I don’t know, but like there’s no one that’s like us that does both.
230 00:28:52.070 ⇒ 00:28:55.939 Uttam Kumaran: Right now. Our brand and messaging is kind of bifurcated.
231 00:28:56.290 ⇒ 00:29:08.460 Uttam Kumaran: Meaning you you. The story isn’t really clear, but ideally we come in. We do one. And we realize you have a data problem. And we solve that too. And we’re in the core part of the business that’s very hard to solve
232 00:29:08.680 ⇒ 00:29:22.129 Uttam Kumaran: by like, you need to really go in there and have a really good business mind to solve either of those problems. And people. People are rare to meet people like us when they come work with us, and we we knock out of the park. We have 3 people working on AI stuff right now.
233 00:29:22.130 ⇒ 00:29:30.269 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, dude, that stuff just like, from all like what I’ve read and kind of learned so far, I’m like, that’s.
234 00:29:30.270 ⇒ 00:29:44.051 Uttam Kumaran: But the thing is for those for the biggest AI companies. They will never make it to these like industries. That’s that are slow, like home services, legal insurance. They’re gonna go after b 2 b saas 1st and like, tech like
235 00:29:44.843 ⇒ 00:29:48.850 Uttam Kumaran: what is it like phone calling and stuff like customer care.
236 00:29:48.850 ⇒ 00:29:49.220 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
237 00:29:49.220 ⇒ 00:29:57.739 Uttam Kumaran: services where it’s like a mom and pop type business insurance stuff like that. That’s where there’s a huge opportunity to go in and implement. They’ll be the last people that
238 00:29:57.890 ⇒ 00:30:01.929 Uttam Kumaran: these guys don’t. Even they like they heard a chat. Gbt once.
239 00:30:01.930 ⇒ 00:30:02.950 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, yeah.
240 00:30:02.950 ⇒ 00:30:05.159 Uttam Kumaran: I’m like, Oh, my God, you’re like
241 00:30:05.640 ⇒ 00:30:07.980 Uttam Kumaran: 2. It’s been out for 2 years like.
242 00:30:08.420 ⇒ 00:30:08.960 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
243 00:30:08.960 ⇒ 00:30:09.514 Uttam Kumaran: Fuck.
244 00:30:10.070 ⇒ 00:30:13.250 Keyan Yassini: I mean dude. Even even some of those Sas companies or Comp.
245 00:30:13.250 ⇒ 00:30:13.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yes.
246 00:30:13.750 ⇒ 00:30:29.469 Keyan Yassini: Degrees that are open to tech change like they’re gonna need people that are there. Who can, you know, you know, fix any of their data and stand up their kind of data issues. And then, you know, help realize that into those you know, CIA.
247 00:30:29.470 ⇒ 00:30:30.529 Uttam Kumaran: It. Also, it’s like.
248 00:30:30.530 ⇒ 00:30:31.190 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
249 00:30:31.450 ⇒ 00:30:37.350 Uttam Kumaran: There’s gonna be right now. The reason we’re writing the agents from Scratch is because there’s not a good platform to do it.
250 00:30:37.350 ⇒ 00:30:38.250 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
251 00:30:38.250 ⇒ 00:31:02.680 Uttam Kumaran: There’s like a hundred frameworks. It’s all open source nonsense, like dude. I I hired these guys because I know the frameworks. And I just like look for people that ever did it. But there’s no it’s all like all over the place. However, next 2 years there’s gonna be winners, vertical winners like there’s gonna be an insurance AI, AI, like agent building thing. There’s gonna be for law. We should just go implement them.
252 00:31:02.680 ⇒ 00:31:04.040 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
253 00:31:04.040 ⇒ 00:31:15.949 Uttam Kumaran: Exactly. And they’re never. They’re either. It’s gonna be late for them to build professional services or they’re gonna be like only handling the enterprise stuff, and they’re not gonna care. And we should just go rip. We should just go.
254 00:31:16.230 ⇒ 00:31:24.109 Uttam Kumaran: We should just go rip them like cause they’re gonna be the best people in town like. I don’t want to reinvent the wheel. I have to, because there’s there’s no like
255 00:31:24.340 ⇒ 00:31:33.320 Uttam Kumaran: clear way of how to engineer these, but soon there will just be like a there’ll be one or many verticalized software players that just build those AI agents.
256 00:31:33.320 ⇒ 00:31:33.860 Keyan Yassini: Yeah.
257 00:31:33.860 ⇒ 00:31:34.979 Uttam Kumaran: Out of the box and.
258 00:31:35.490 ⇒ 00:31:39.040 Keyan Yassini: Still, they can go to the company. The company’s not gonna know how to do anything with that.
259 00:31:39.300 ⇒ 00:31:50.259 Keyan Yassini: Yeah. Well, I mean, they all have implementation partners, people that do it for them so like the the example that they use was like like auditing right? So
260 00:31:50.880 ⇒ 00:32:03.289 Keyan Yassini: there’s so much data right in the auditing, and like all the information that they have, and then with when it comes to auditing, they only take a super small sample size. They audit that, and then hope that the rest.
261 00:32:03.290 ⇒ 00:32:05.180 Uttam Kumaran: Yes, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
262 00:32:05.180 ⇒ 00:32:06.610 Keyan Yassini: Is that? So?
263 00:32:06.970 ⇒ 00:32:20.639 Keyan Yassini: I think, yeah, like, all that stuff is money. But anyways, dude. Yeah, I mean, I’m excited. I think it’s like, really really great spot to be in. I think it’s gonna be really cool to be working with you and like realizing some of these. You know the gains and all that sort of stuff.
264 00:32:20.640 ⇒ 00:32:24.099 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, dude. And I want I want you to make a shit ton of money here.
265 00:32:24.510 ⇒ 00:32:26.280 Keyan Yassini: Yeah, we’ll make shit ton of money.
266 00:32:26.280 ⇒ 00:32:32.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me connect. Let me try to get you get us through on the phone sometime next week again, we’ll do something for sure.
267 00:32:33.150 ⇒ 00:32:35.039 Keyan Yassini: Okay. Yeah. Sounds good.
268 00:32:35.040 ⇒ 00:32:36.400 Uttam Kumaran: Alright dude, enjoy.
269 00:32:36.400 ⇒ 00:32:37.487 Keyan Yassini: All right, will do.
270 00:32:37.760 ⇒ 00:32:38.999 Keyan Yassini: Talk to you later.
271 00:32:39.160 ⇒ 00:32:39.610 Keyan Yassini: Peace out.