2026-01-29_brainforge_x_abc_austin_onsite

Meeting Title: Brainforge x ABC: Austin Onsite Date: 2026-01-29 Meeting participants: ABC Austin, Amber Lin, Zoran Selinger

WEBVTT

1 00:00:01.940 ⇒ 00:00:06.129 ABC Austin: for next Wednesday, then? Yeah, yeah, I think we’re good, so…

2 00:00:06.540 ⇒ 00:00:10.680 ABC Austin: I feel, based on last week, and we went and talked internally.

3 00:00:11.190 ⇒ 00:00:16.600 ABC Austin: And, you know, we have some people on our team that are, you know, extremely good at,

4 00:00:16.860 ⇒ 00:00:19.710 ABC Austin: the SEO, the GEO, or…

5 00:00:19.830 ⇒ 00:00:25.159 ABC Austin: And on just, like, landing page optimization, I sort of gave them an overview of everything. They’re like.

6 00:00:25.300 ⇒ 00:00:28.129 ABC Austin: Oh my gosh, we have… we could totally, like…

7 00:00:28.310 ⇒ 00:00:39.229 ABC Austin: really make an impact. And it’s sort of a lot of what I presented on, which is you guys have really strong organic search, which is very rare, but it’s just… one is, like.

8 00:00:39.990 ⇒ 00:00:59.389 ABC Austin: I think the land… one, there’s… there’s just ways to continue to grow that. Yeah. So really nailing the AEO, making sure when you’re hitting something for keywords that you guys pop up. That’s just, like, PR landing page optimization. Yeah. Is that a lot of the blog activity? Yeah, it’s actually blog, and it’s actually the landing pages, so making sure you have a landing page for every

9 00:00:59.390 ⇒ 00:01:02.450 ABC Austin: City service combo.

10 00:01:02.690 ⇒ 00:01:25.569 ABC Austin: and then making sure that that copy is really good, you’re just gonna see organic search just go up. Yeah, and I think we’ve even set up to where pages are somewhat… there’s not, like, complete copy. Yes. You know, like, San Antonio and Austin, it’s a little bit different verbiage. Yeah, so they’re gonna… So that actually does play a factor? Yes. Yeah, it’s like, all of it has to be, like, very… it’s actually, like, very meticulous. They go through and they make sure all the keywords are there and things like that.

11 00:01:25.700 ⇒ 00:01:43.719 ABC Austin: And then it’s… once they kind of capture that, it’s all just optimization on the click-to-buy. The other thing right now is, like, none of your… the other piece is, like, none of your digital targeting pixels, like your Facebook pixel, is on the site, meaning you’re not able to retarget the people that come in, and then, like, leave.

12 00:01:44.300 ⇒ 00:01:55.729 ABC Austin: So that’s another thing that our team will propose, is, like, we have to just set that up. Yeah. So that when you start running more digital advertising, it’s just way more efficient to target those people. Yeah.

13 00:01:55.940 ⇒ 00:01:59.100 ABC Austin: So that’s, like, a lot of the first set of, like.

14 00:02:00.040 ⇒ 00:02:02.290 ABC Austin: Things, and really, that’s, like, going…

15 00:02:02.550 ⇒ 00:02:06.150 ABC Austin: It’s, like, almost, like, vertical by vertical, doing that.

16 00:02:06.170 ⇒ 00:02:22.029 ABC Austin: So, like, starting with pass, then mechanical, then, like, and just going… doing that, and really, like, our… the way it will come down for us, and the kind of how we’ll price is just, like, how many we take on. Yeah. And really, we need, like, 3 months to be able to show, like, the lift.

17 00:02:22.030 ⇒ 00:02:32.440 ABC Austin: Yeah. Right? And at minimum. I think we’ll… I think they’ll… they’ll show it faster, but, like, I can’t… they’re gonna… they’re not gonna, like, I promise that, but…

18 00:02:32.760 ⇒ 00:02:46.240 ABC Austin: what they’ll basically do is, like, go through, set up the pixel properly, and then start to change the copy, and then you’ll start to see the traffic go, and then about 3 months to do… start to do a lot of the testing. Yeah. Yeah.

19 00:02:46.420 ⇒ 00:02:47.400 ABC Austin: So…

20 00:02:48.540 ⇒ 00:02:54.260 ABC Austin: And Joe from Monkey Boy, I think, has also been really aligned with, like, what we’ve asked, and we actually won’t need a lot of…

21 00:02:54.410 ⇒ 00:03:08.230 ABC Austin: extra effort to do some of the things. Yeah. And so that’s really the first piece, and then I think Amber today, really, so that’s the first piece. I think after we nail the ability to do that for one vertical, we’re showing the lift, we’ll then say, okay.

22 00:03:08.270 ⇒ 00:03:18.149 ABC Austin: Which, now we go… Unleash it for everybody else. We go other virtual ones, right? And so, their, like, 3, 6, 9-month roadmap is just, like, hitting those verticals.

23 00:03:18.150 ⇒ 00:03:36.519 ABC Austin: And then, at some point, it’s where I… we’ll recommend, like, okay, we need to have some type of digital advertising that we just need to do. Like, it’s going to work really, really well, and you’re gonna drive… you’re gonna drive. And the nice thing is, you guys have the infrastructure to deal with that volume, because

24 00:03:36.520 ⇒ 00:03:50.110 ABC Austin: Because through what we saw through COVID, I feel really comfortable, even if we were to get anywhere near that type of traffic. So, what was it like during that time in terms of volume? Was it like… It was amazing. We’re just so busy. Yeah. It was awesome. Okay.

25 00:03:50.110 ⇒ 00:04:02.979 ABC Austin: So that’s, like, really what… So, 2020, 2021, two best years for the company we ever had. It was… we had really strong growth, and profit was through the roof. That was our dynamite year that we said we could replicate those two years.

26 00:04:03.400 ⇒ 00:04:05.110 ABC Austin: We’d be amazing. Yeah.

27 00:04:05.180 ⇒ 00:04:23.420 ABC Austin: And so that’s where the next… once we start to nail those, and then two… the next two pieces are, one, optimize the heck out of the click-to-buy and scheduling, so we capture that. There’s… we will get that to a good place, I think, quickly, and again, for most online purchasing.

28 00:04:23.980 ⇒ 00:04:38.660 ABC Austin: as I said, like, less than 10% conversion is, like, that’s kind of, like, what you can expect. Yeah. So we will kind of do the best practices there, and then we’ll kind of go into, like, okay, how do we continue to increase top of funnel through, like, better advertising strategies?

29 00:04:38.880 ⇒ 00:04:46.380 ABC Austin: And then, I feel like, really, the tougher two pieces, so, like, that’s all on, sort of, like, organic.

30 00:04:46.420 ⇒ 00:05:06.099 ABC Austin: tougher two pieces are gonna be, one is, like, building the data infrastructure to support, like, consistently support these types of analytics. Yeah. And then… and then also, like, the next piece is just, like, can we start to run more frequent business meetings and put insights in front of us?

31 00:05:06.160 ⇒ 00:05:08.109 ABC Austin: And then the third piece is, like.

32 00:05:08.200 ⇒ 00:05:13.699 ABC Austin: How does that get into the actions of everybody on y’all’s teams, right?

33 00:05:13.900 ⇒ 00:05:32.260 ABC Austin: So, how do we provide, like, it’s… that’s going to be learning about, okay, like, Amber today, I think, will be sharing a bit of what service combinations are. Yeah, but yeah, our main marketing team. Yeah, the main marketing. Yes, yes.

34 00:05:32.580 ⇒ 00:05:49.980 ABC Austin: So we’ll be showing, like, what combinations of services lead to the highest, like, longevity, the most profit. Yeah. And that’ll just hopefully give you at least, like, okay, push this. Yes. Right? And then… Well, even the slide that y’all had last time, that had all the services.

35 00:05:50.030 ⇒ 00:05:57.119 ABC Austin: and their margin, and then which ones we should lead with. In which regions? Yes. Yeah, so then it’ll be more about, similarly to

36 00:05:57.330 ⇒ 00:05:59.049 ABC Austin: Maximizing your vertical.

37 00:05:59.340 ⇒ 00:06:02.880 ABC Austin: We’ll be like, okay, can we just, like, focus on something?

38 00:06:03.010 ⇒ 00:06:11.169 ABC Austin: do the internal work, and then at least find out how long it takes to see the impact, and then be like, how do we copy-paste this? Yeah. Right? So…

39 00:06:11.430 ⇒ 00:06:15.940 ABC Austin: Yeah, and I assume, obviously, once, you know, they’re doing some more interviews.

40 00:06:16.520 ⇒ 00:06:19.639 ABC Austin: I guess, assume planets have something in place.

41 00:06:20.350 ⇒ 00:06:23.029 ABC Austin: Hopefully we make a decision next week. Yeah.

42 00:06:23.180 ⇒ 00:06:25.850 ABC Austin: We’re not gonna have final interviews until… come on.

43 00:06:26.440 ⇒ 00:06:44.200 ABC Austin: Or the following week, yeah, yeah. So maybe we can… we’ll learn a little bit about that when we talk on Wednesday. I think definitely on Wednesday, we’ll want to gather from you guys, hey, what things should we ask? Okay. They kind of briefly scan through kind of each interview applicant that we have, because I think we’re down to 5 people. Okay, okay. We’re about to go into final interviews.

44 00:06:44.330 ⇒ 00:06:51.809 ABC Austin: My dad did say that one of his top people that he likes is just, like, a complete data mess. Oh, okay, cool. And when I was like.

45 00:06:51.960 ⇒ 00:07:04.089 ABC Austin: That’s a good thing. I was like, go with that guy that can actually, like, say, like, make those… that’s gonna love this kind of playbook information. Yeah, so obviously this person will be ready for next week, but once we get that person in place, probably want to

46 00:07:04.130 ⇒ 00:07:14.379 ABC Austin: kind of go run through this with him as well. Totally, totally. Here’s a list of recommend… I mean, I would love to take a new job, they say. Here’s the recommendations on the champs. Yeah, and again, for us, it’s like…

47 00:07:14.850 ⇒ 00:07:34.600 ABC Austin: that person has to steward within the company. Yeah, right. And buying and things like that. Right, but that’s just… what a way to start a job. Yeah. You look like a hero. Yeah, that’s our job, is to make a hero. So… and so when it comes down to, like, how we’re gonna put this, like, menu of things, that’s… that’s where I think we’ll work. It’s like.

48 00:07:35.230 ⇒ 00:07:40.600 ABC Austin: Right now, this was sort of just, like, fixed cost for just, like, let’s just run through all these areas.

49 00:07:40.670 ⇒ 00:07:57.490 ABC Austin: We’ll put a couple options that look just like this, as well as, okay, maybe there’s just a fixed budget for, like, as much as you guys can do within this budget, or it’s like, hey, if actually we can achieve a certain, like, revenue growth or organic growth.

50 00:07:57.570 ⇒ 00:08:05.380 ABC Austin: like, let’s kind of do it how we did with Andy, which is, like, it’s more of a win-win, right? So, like, let’s start to do that. So…

51 00:08:06.190 ⇒ 00:08:20.369 ABC Austin: On the last piece, it’s just aligning, like, what is the KPI? Of course, I think what we’re seeing is that, like, without some of these changes, really sincerely, it, like, is not looking great. Like, it’s looking like it will be flat or down. And so…

52 00:08:20.620 ⇒ 00:08:28.510 ABC Austin: That, I think, gives us a great opportunity, and those first couple things I mentioned on just getting back to great organic search.

53 00:08:28.840 ⇒ 00:08:32.749 ABC Austin: It’s gonna get some wins, and then if we make the click-to-buy adjustments.

54 00:08:33.049 ⇒ 00:08:37.729 ABC Austin: I think we’re gonna see… we’re gonna see that move. Then it’s…

55 00:08:37.900 ⇒ 00:08:45.730 ABC Austin: But that’s, again, like, those are the baselines, and then the other two pieces are really, like, what needs to happen over the entire year, so…

56 00:08:46.700 ⇒ 00:08:47.410 ABC Austin: Cool.

57 00:08:47.610 ⇒ 00:08:53.259 ABC Austin: It’s gonna be fun here. Yeah, yeah. So maybe, I don’t know if… Amber, can you hear us pretty well?

58 00:08:54.990 ⇒ 00:09:00.479 Amber Lin: Yeah, I can hear you well. Okay. Am I on the screen? Would I be able to present that way?

59 00:09:00.730 ⇒ 00:09:03.680 ABC Austin: you are, buzzed.

60 00:09:05.170 ⇒ 00:09:10.599 Amber Lin: Cool. So, I mostly looked at the…

61 00:09:10.830 ⇒ 00:09:15.800 ABC Austin: evolved data this time, and so then I got insights on, say.

62 00:09:15.800 ⇒ 00:09:30.310 Amber Lin: The product bundles, people’s first product and how that affects LTV, or also looking at, cancellation reasons of why people cancel and how that’s distributed.

63 00:09:30.310 ⇒ 00:09:42.100 Amber Lin: We also just got dream data, so we’ll also be able to look at, the sales process, what the funnel is like, so that will probably be for next week, but this week.

64 00:09:42.130 ⇒ 00:09:46.640 Amber Lin: I think my presentation would mostly be on

65 00:09:47.120 ⇒ 00:09:51.170 Amber Lin: the Evolve side. So let me pull that up.

66 00:09:52.040 ⇒ 00:10:03.210 ABC Austin: Yeah, and I think we can probably, at the end, look at some interesting questions from you on, like, how you want to look at pacing between opportunity stages. Is that all the data we have from creating that? Yeah.

67 00:10:04.710 ⇒ 00:10:13.540 ABC Austin: So, I told Amber, what we’ll do is just look at, kind of, basic funnel and, like, time and stage, but if there’s anything else that you have, then… Yeah.

68 00:10:13.740 ⇒ 00:10:15.059 ABC Austin: Talk about that, too.

69 00:10:16.550 ⇒ 00:10:17.320 Amber Lin: Great.

70 00:10:17.950 ⇒ 00:10:18.520 Amber Lin: Mmm…

71 00:10:29.660 ⇒ 00:10:35.530 Amber Lin: Alright, so the first part that I looked at is, bundling.

72 00:10:35.530 ⇒ 00:10:38.519 ABC Austin: zoom in a little bit. It’s kind of a big screen.

73 00:10:38.520 ⇒ 00:10:39.110 Amber Lin: Yeah.

74 00:10:39.110 ⇒ 00:10:39.740 ABC Austin: Right, okay.

75 00:10:44.170 ⇒ 00:10:53.029 Amber Lin: So, the first question I was looking at is, what product combinations leads to the highest LTV?

76 00:10:53.140 ⇒ 00:11:02.199 Amber Lin: So the first high-level view I took here is, okay, How many products per person?

77 00:11:02.310 ⇒ 00:11:06.129 Amber Lin: And most people, most people here have…

78 00:11:06.490 ⇒ 00:11:11.019 Amber Lin: had just one product, and their LTV is relatively

79 00:11:11.200 ⇒ 00:11:25.099 Amber Lin: low. But as they get more… as the customer gets more products, their LTVs, increase quite significantly. It jumps up to 2K when they have… well, to 1K when they have 4 products, and they…

80 00:11:25.240 ⇒ 00:11:32.559 Amber Lin: goes even higher. I think that logically makes sense, but we can also

81 00:11:32.790 ⇒ 00:11:36.690 Amber Lin: I think for me, the next step is looking at,

82 00:11:37.020 ⇒ 00:11:50.449 Amber Lin: what exactly of the two products are they getting? Because sometimes they might start with, say, a residential pest initial, and then go on to a

83 00:11:50.450 ⇒ 00:12:01.819 Amber Lin: every other month, or then move on to monthly, and they might add, related services. So, I think once we… I’m able to refine

84 00:12:02.270 ⇒ 00:12:11.900 Amber Lin: And, like, similar products to… because our… currently, our initial is also counted as a product, so,

85 00:12:11.900 ⇒ 00:12:23.899 Amber Lin: I think once we consolidate that, this will be more accurate, but I think this gives a picture of, that bundling does increase the LTV significantly, and…

86 00:12:24.910 ⇒ 00:12:26.689 Amber Lin: We can think of ways

87 00:12:26.810 ⇒ 00:12:35.550 Amber Lin: of how… how we can look at, I think, next, of how well we’re doing upsells. And…

88 00:12:36.150 ⇒ 00:12:49.519 ABC Austin: lifetime value, this is talking over the lifespan, like, what assumptions are you making on someone for pest control versus… it seems to me like some of the 10 services, Lifetime Alley would be much more than

89 00:12:49.670 ⇒ 00:12:51.860 ABC Austin: $5, 800.$ 5,800.

90 00:12:52.160 ⇒ 00:13:02.109 Amber Lin: Yeah, I think that sometimes it includes, say, residential pest initial, because people will only have usually one initial.

91 00:13:02.110 ⇒ 00:13:16.240 Amber Lin: And then, say, mosquito initial, and then they go on to maintenance, so initial and maintenance is kind of like two different things. So that’s what I wanted to look at. Hey, if we can consolidate that, what would that be? Because there… it keeps going on, and.

92 00:13:16.240 ⇒ 00:13:17.550 ABC Austin: You’re…

93 00:13:17.550 ⇒ 00:13:18.350 Amber Lin: at 10.

94 00:13:20.300 ⇒ 00:13:28.769 ABC Austin: Gotcha. Yeah, so this keeps going. Naturally, what kind of couple things we’re going to be looking for is, at what point

95 00:13:29.110 ⇒ 00:13:34.909 ABC Austin: sort of LTV and churn and, like, retention are all kind of, like, talking with the same thing as Talong.

96 00:13:34.910 ⇒ 00:13:51.679 ABC Austin: Does the customer just stay with you? What factors of their activity with your services indicate that they’re going to stay longer? Right. Naturally, you should push them to do those things, because then they’ll have a great experience, they’ll stay longer. And so, we’re going to find out, like, what are the things, okay.

97 00:13:51.750 ⇒ 00:14:11.610 ABC Austin: Is it… is it roughly… they need to get two services within some time frame. Okay, but actually, is it even beyond that, is the fact that they’re starting with a couple… these services, and then these are all add-ons that then lead to longevity. What we’re… what we’re finding is some services, as the initial one, doesn’t lead to high LTV.

98 00:14:11.610 ⇒ 00:14:14.780 ABC Austin: Mainly because, again, some people just… those are one time.

99 00:14:14.780 ⇒ 00:14:27.509 ABC Austin: Right? And so, you’re better off saying, like, okay, either for those that just come and buy that, are we actually okay? But for the other ones, should these just really push the add-ons, right? Like, this is an additional service.

100 00:14:27.610 ⇒ 00:14:45.239 ABC Austin: Like, okay, should someone come and get pests? And then we push the pool cleaning, right? Whereas, like, that, it may be hard to set… people may just come for pool cleaning and leave. And so those are the types of things we’re trying to see. Reverse is we’re also trying to look at what combination of factors lead to the highest churn.

101 00:14:45.310 ⇒ 00:15:03.409 ABC Austin: or the lowest churn. So, it’s sort of like, yeah, it’s two sides of the same coin, figuring out, like, what makes a great, long, like, healthy, rich customer. Or it might be that if they just have lawn mowing, probably gonna lose out on that customer right away, but if it’s a pest and a lawn mowing, they’re gonna stick with you longer.

102 00:15:03.410 ⇒ 00:15:16.189 ABC Austin: And so, in the churn side, it’s us identifying what are the common telltale signs of churn, and then we go into churn mitigation, like, okay, when we notice this, we need to get an email. They need to get a phone call.

103 00:15:16.190 ⇒ 00:15:23.519 ABC Austin: Right? That… that’s how we immediately attack that number. Right? So there’s both a increase the retention.

104 00:15:23.520 ⇒ 00:15:29.589 ABC Austin: And then there is a mitigate churn, and those are two separate strategies, right? Yeah.

105 00:15:31.300 ⇒ 00:15:43.389 Amber Lin: Yeah, and I think it’ll be interesting to look at… I have the cancellations, and they’re, like, the duration before they cancel, so we can look at that, and then next time we can dive in to say, hey, for a service combo.

106 00:15:43.590 ⇒ 00:15:53.669 Amber Lin: does it incrementally increase the duration the customer is with us? Yeah. So, I think, this is a quick slide on

107 00:15:54.260 ⇒ 00:16:10.180 Amber Lin: like, most of the services, they would get something else, because I think for a residential pest control, they usually start out with an initial to get them on board, so most of these people have had technically another product.

108 00:16:10.180 ⇒ 00:16:15.550 Amber Lin: But, for example, for, plumbing repairs, or for.

109 00:16:15.550 ⇒ 00:16:16.660 ABC Austin: emergency right here.

110 00:16:16.660 ⇒ 00:16:17.470 Amber Lin: appliances.

111 00:16:17.470 ⇒ 00:16:18.879 ABC Austin: So did the door to come out.

112 00:16:19.420 ⇒ 00:16:31.780 Amber Lin: they have… they’re usually, like, one-time services. These customers have only got that service and haven’t had anything else. So, like, we can think about our…

113 00:16:32.260 ⇒ 00:16:45.730 Amber Lin: I guess this graph doesn’t really tell us, are they more receptible for… to upsells, but it just gives us a sense of, hey, these are usually, people just get this, and they don’t get anything else.

114 00:16:45.730 ⇒ 00:16:49.410 ABC Austin: Can you zoom in to just some of the top and lowest ones?

115 00:16:49.560 ⇒ 00:17:04.789 ABC Austin: So, like, the fourth line, for example, you might be able to zoom in a little, maybe it’s just my eyes, just to zoom in a little bit more? Yeah, okay, so, res, wild, wildlife management. Okay, so can you… Roda, can you explain this one and, like, just this line, for example?

116 00:17:04.790 ⇒ 00:17:08.960 Amber Lin: Yeah, so this line, for example, means that,

117 00:17:08.960 ⇒ 00:17:24.350 Amber Lin: 99% of people have had another product or another product, and it’s most likely that they had a initial, because this is a really wildlife management product. They’ve had, like, an initial or a maintenance service.

118 00:17:24.349 ⇒ 00:17:29.369 Amber Lin: Because, like, that’s how the… that’s the granularity of our products.

119 00:17:29.510 ⇒ 00:17:33.349 ABC Austin: Okay, okay. So one thing’s like, yeah, we’ll end up getting out of…

120 00:17:33.470 ⇒ 00:17:44.409 ABC Austin: bundling the initials. Yeah. Yeah. Production. They’re not gonna have a production ticket if they didn’t already have, you know, production means we’re going back out to fix something. Okay, we’re not charging the customer.

121 00:17:46.480 ⇒ 00:17:51.800 Amber Lin: Exactly. So, I think the next one I have here is…

122 00:17:53.180 ⇒ 00:18:06.450 Amber Lin: These are the most ordered products. There’s 20 most ordered products, and I’m looking at what is the median LTV per, per customer. So…

123 00:18:07.340 ⇒ 00:18:16.369 Amber Lin: like, on the top, HVAC is on the top, doesn’t mean it has the most customers, but it means that it has, like, the median

124 00:18:16.500 ⇒ 00:18:30.390 Amber Lin: LTV, median value of a customer who has this A&P 500 is about $8,000, whereas for residential pests, or for even for, I think for

125 00:18:30.890 ⇒ 00:18:37.709 Amber Lin: commercial pest, our LTV for them is, is a lot lower. So…

126 00:18:37.970 ⇒ 00:18:56.250 Amber Lin: like, of course, residential pest, or pest control makes up for the volume or the number of total customers, but if we just look at a single customer, HVAC has a much bigger ticket size, and…

127 00:18:56.290 ⇒ 00:19:00.459 Amber Lin: So it ends up having a much higher LTV.

128 00:19:03.580 ⇒ 00:19:09.710 ABC Austin: Interesting whether they amped the fleet is close to AMP program was cheap.

129 00:19:10.270 ⇒ 00:19:18.530 ABC Austin: It’s about $125 a year. Yes, they’re showing that a lot of AMP customers must get

130 00:19:18.630 ⇒ 00:19:28.099 ABC Austin: new HVAC systems to bump that. Or could it mean that all AMP customers already have passed another… like, there’s not many just AMP?

131 00:19:28.450 ⇒ 00:19:29.760 Amber Lin: Yeah, could be.

132 00:19:29.760 ⇒ 00:19:32.690 ABC Austin: They must have been…

133 00:19:33.410 ⇒ 00:19:38.580 ABC Austin: Bundle that’s already a bundle, so, you know, they probably already have pests at lawn and other stuff, so…

134 00:19:42.340 ⇒ 00:19:44.990 ABC Austin: And they’re also more likely to get an installed this.

135 00:19:46.810 ⇒ 00:19:56.580 Amber Lin: Alright, so… and then the next question we looked at is, how does the first product that people get influence

136 00:19:56.730 ⇒ 00:20:01.409 Amber Lin: their value for ABC. So…

137 00:20:02.890 ⇒ 00:20:21.389 Amber Lin: I think this is just… this is just a count of, hey, what do people like to get first? And, of course, like, people like to get residential pests, whether it’s the, like, initial or every other month. Sometimes people just start, I think, straight with the every other month,

138 00:20:21.650 ⇒ 00:20:26.989 Amber Lin: But… I think this shows you how many people,

139 00:20:27.650 ⇒ 00:20:37.810 Amber Lin: are wanting… are willing to start with this product. But then, in the next slide, I’ll show you what the difference is,

140 00:20:38.090 ⇒ 00:20:44.940 Amber Lin: in the… in the LTV, when they start, say they start with the residential pest.

141 00:20:45.850 ⇒ 00:20:46.920 Amber Lin: So…

142 00:20:47.070 ⇒ 00:21:00.580 Amber Lin: I think over here, we have… we can just look at two numbers right here. So just the first one for HVAC, and then we can look at right here for, residential pests every other month.

143 00:21:01.180 ⇒ 00:21:06.789 Amber Lin: So, this graph is the median… so, the median LTV.

144 00:21:07.200 ⇒ 00:21:11.720 Amber Lin: based on the first product that they get with ABC. So.

145 00:21:11.910 ⇒ 00:21:15.620 Amber Lin: People who start off with HVAC,

146 00:21:16.190 ⇒ 00:21:24.950 Amber Lin: end up having a much higher, LTV, which makes sense, like, HVAC is a much bigger ticket product, but…

147 00:21:25.410 ⇒ 00:21:29.800 Amber Lin: For our most, Popular first product.

148 00:21:30.500 ⇒ 00:21:46.050 Amber Lin: which is this… this one, residential pest control every other month, has a much, much lower median LTV. So it’s only about $1,000, which is significantly lower than when we start… when they start off

149 00:21:46.250 ⇒ 00:21:48.260 Amber Lin: With HVAC.

150 00:21:49.190 ⇒ 00:21:53.750 Amber Lin: So… I think, for me, what this tells us is…

151 00:21:54.150 ⇒ 00:22:02.070 Amber Lin: Yes, like, people are willing, or they’re more comfortable starting off with residential pest control.

152 00:22:02.070 ⇒ 00:22:03.500 ABC Austin: And it…

153 00:22:03.500 ⇒ 00:22:06.270 Amber Lin: Like, overall, it is our…

154 00:22:06.670 ⇒ 00:22:15.000 Amber Lin: our biggest sector, so it has, like, the biggest sales, but per customer, HVAC or other service is

155 00:22:15.310 ⇒ 00:22:17.850 Amber Lin: As a start, would bring in

156 00:22:18.030 ⇒ 00:22:25.969 Amber Lin: more revenue in the future. So we can think about, hey, HVAC might be harder to acquire, or people

157 00:22:26.040 ⇒ 00:22:42.390 Amber Lin: might have more… might put more time into considering different options, but if we get them and they stay with the company, they end up bringing a lot more value. So, we gotta weigh the options of, like, what are we…

158 00:22:42.410 ⇒ 00:22:49.830 Amber Lin: what are we choosing? Are we just going with residential pest, or are we… or are we trying to advertise for HVAC more?

159 00:22:50.210 ⇒ 00:22:52.919 Amber Lin: I’m gonna pause here for questions.

160 00:22:55.520 ⇒ 00:22:57.050 ABC Austin: Yeah, I mean, obviously, you have to have more…

161 00:22:57.830 ⇒ 00:23:11.019 ABC Austin: info, you know, because, like, last time we were showing the… whatever the other slides you’d showed, I think past 10 as being, yeah, with the margins and all that, the cost… the cost from acquisition and customer, obviously you have to weigh everything, but yeah, I mean, it makes sense that HVAC

162 00:23:11.360 ⇒ 00:23:20.459 ABC Austin: is the highest dollar, because it’s, you know, one HVAC could be 15, 20, close $1, 000, v er s u so n e p es t co n t r o l co u l d b e$ 600, so…

163 00:23:22.220 ⇒ 00:23:27.769 ABC Austin: It does surprise me that the lifetime value of residential pest customers, $1,000.

164 00:23:28.960 ⇒ 00:23:30.589 ABC Austin: Well, I think it’d be more than that.

165 00:23:32.010 ⇒ 00:23:37.300 ABC Austin: Well, and so that’s right in the middle. I guess that’s median, yeah. So that’ll be actually a lot lower.

166 00:23:39.140 ⇒ 00:23:43.369 ABC Austin: Gotta remember, our average number of services per customer is 1.8.

167 00:23:43.920 ⇒ 00:23:44.750 ABC Austin: Yeah.

168 00:23:47.390 ⇒ 00:23:51.380 ABC Austin: Yeah, so also, Amber, I think it was gonna be good to also look at, like.

169 00:23:51.470 ⇒ 00:24:09.459 ABC Austin: the lifetime in terms of duration, like, how long they stay with them. Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. I just gotta take that into account, because I… yeah, I’m picturing, you know, a good pest customer on board, they’ve missed $600 a year or so. Right. Are they really average only staying on for a year, year and a half? Like…

170 00:24:09.460 ⇒ 00:24:22.660 Amber Lin: Yeah, I actually want to pull that up for us, so this right here is cancellation. So this is from… the median days from when the program gets created to the cancellation date.

171 00:24:22.660 ⇒ 00:24:40.439 Amber Lin: And right here, just the last line here, is the same thing with residential pest control. On average, they stay about 2 years, which is not bad, because I think the lease we have is a little bit less than a year, but it’s a lot less than,

172 00:24:40.440 ⇒ 00:24:52.950 Amber Lin: say our other customers here. For example, HVAC has about 3 years, the termite maintenance has 4 years, but I don’t know how many customers is in that.

173 00:24:53.000 ⇒ 00:25:03.170 Amber Lin: And also, the biannual also has a longer duration, but, like, just looking at this, people don’t stay…

174 00:25:04.750 ⇒ 00:25:06.360 ABC Austin: Interesting, that’s what I’ll look at.

175 00:25:06.360 ⇒ 00:25:23.340 Amber Lin: for a significant amount of time. So, like, there’s stuff we can do about retention. We can think about, is every other month the best plan to push, if it ends so quickly? So, like, those are…

176 00:25:23.520 ⇒ 00:25:25.549 Amber Lin: Factors, we would weigh.

177 00:25:25.730 ⇒ 00:25:29.179 Amber Lin: When we decide, hey, what do we want to lead with?

178 00:25:29.420 ⇒ 00:25:31.410 Amber Lin: When we go after people.

179 00:25:33.920 ⇒ 00:25:37.159 ABC Austin: There’s residential best bi-monthly.

180 00:25:41.410 ⇒ 00:25:42.880 ABC Austin: Which one? Yeah.

181 00:25:42.880 ⇒ 00:25:45.539 Amber Lin: The monthly one even has a higher…

182 00:25:45.950 ⇒ 00:25:51.820 Amber Lin: This one right here has a higher… Duration with us.

183 00:25:52.840 ⇒ 00:25:56.820 Amber Lin: And the quarterly one is longer.

184 00:25:57.020 ⇒ 00:26:04.220 Amber Lin: I think that it makes sense that the longer the gap between the services are, the longer people stay, because they…

185 00:26:05.750 ⇒ 00:26:12.280 Amber Lin: Like, they probably still… they pay the same cost, because they… the people… the techs don’t come as frequently.

186 00:26:12.460 ⇒ 00:26:17.000 Amber Lin: So, like… And to us, I feel like…

187 00:26:17.630 ⇒ 00:26:24.249 Amber Lin: If a biannual customer stays for 4 years, it still brings us less

188 00:26:24.360 ⇒ 00:26:35.519 Amber Lin: Less value than a customer who comes every other month for 2 years, because it’s just more frequency of services for us.

189 00:26:39.890 ⇒ 00:26:40.670 Amber Lin: Yeah.

190 00:26:40.800 ⇒ 00:26:53.749 Amber Lin: The last thing I looked at was, for cancellations. So, this is… what we just looked at was the duration of when people cancel, and this is the distribution of why people cancel.

191 00:26:53.830 ⇒ 00:27:04.019 Amber Lin: So, the top reason is that the contract is fulfilled, or is as needed, and the next reason is moving. So…

192 00:27:04.640 ⇒ 00:27:07.109 Amber Lin: I think there’s less we can do with

193 00:27:07.250 ⇒ 00:27:12.529 Amber Lin: with moving, but I think there’s a lot that we can do,

194 00:27:12.700 ⇒ 00:27:20.870 Amber Lin: when the contract is fulfilled, I feel like there’s opportunities for upsell, for telling them what the service value is.

195 00:27:20.870 ⇒ 00:27:24.250 ABC Austin: Or make them feel like they remind them that they need us.

196 00:27:24.250 ⇒ 00:27:36.840 Amber Lin: Yeah, and not just having a one time and them leaving, and then… because everybody’s going to need, like, home services or pest control eventually, like, even if they cancel

197 00:27:38.030 ⇒ 00:27:44.930 Amber Lin: they’re gonna come back in some years for something, so I feel like this is a…

198 00:27:45.430 ⇒ 00:27:50.339 Amber Lin: This is where we can work on, like, reaching back out to people who have canceled.

199 00:27:50.960 ⇒ 00:28:12.469 ABC Austin: Anything around moving, like, any campaign or… I mean, we talk a lot about, okay, if they move interstate, we should grab them. Right. But we’ve never done anything… We’ve always said we’ve wanted to do something with moving, because we view that that’s a way to save the house with a new person coming in, so you can keep that account, but then you also want to gain

200 00:28:12.910 ⇒ 00:28:20.220 ABC Austin: This X amount of percentage of people stay within our network, and so we’re like, well, then we want to follow that person where they go to.

201 00:28:20.220 ⇒ 00:28:35.220 ABC Austin: We also think that a lot of the moving is not actually moving, that’s at least. Well, we’ve vetted that. I’ve looked at that. Yeah, I guess that’s right, we have. Somebody told me that, and I actually check it, I will randomly do it, and I’ll be like, yep, no, the house is on Zillow, or it’s been changed over.

202 00:28:35.960 ⇒ 00:28:41.200 ABC Austin: But also, again, like, even if they are moving, what is their win back? Like.

203 00:28:41.320 ⇒ 00:28:49.690 ABC Austin: we should just send another thing in 6 months. Exactly. We have that customer pool. We know that somebody new’s in that house.

204 00:28:49.690 ⇒ 00:29:02.690 ABC Austin: Did you happen to move, like, we’re still here, or something like that. Yeah. And then, yeah… That’s where we’ve struggled, yeah. And then I do wonder, like, and this is where someone more creative on the marketing side was like, how do we target the next person? Exactly. Like, okay, maybe…

205 00:29:02.740 ⇒ 00:29:20.129 ABC Austin: if we know there’s a move, in some months we hit them on something. On a sale. Yeah. Where one’s canceling. Yeah, and certainly there’s… I think there’s probably going to be a portion that’s saying they’re moving, they’re moving to Dallas, and we just have that script ready. Exactly.

206 00:29:20.240 ⇒ 00:29:21.160 ABC Austin: You know.

207 00:29:21.600 ⇒ 00:29:35.710 ABC Austin: And then on the contract fulfilled, this is where, like, our pitch is gonna be, okay, what is the offer to make on that? To get them to stay. To get them to stay, and what is the map? Like, again.

208 00:29:35.780 ⇒ 00:29:40.809 ABC Austin: the easy thing is, like, oh, like, let’s just offer something discounted. How much do we discount? And…

209 00:29:40.830 ⇒ 00:30:00.280 ABC Austin: Ideally, the math should show you that we can actually discount aggressively because their lifetime value will have a pay… will have a positive payback. Without that, then you might just say, like, let’s just offer, like, a coupon. You know, we want to prove that, like, okay, in that moment, we should offer a discount on a sticky, super sticky service.

210 00:30:00.280 ⇒ 00:30:10.909 ABC Austin: at a really great rate, that will get them to stay longer, and we’ll cut that down. Well, and also looking at those, saying, what happened… is there some commonality amongst all these

211 00:30:11.530 ⇒ 00:30:16.089 ABC Austin: you know, contract fulfilled that we can then proactively do something there. Yeah.

212 00:30:16.450 ⇒ 00:30:24.080 ABC Austin: Like, I think… I think about me, I’m on… I’m contract fulfilled on my AC thing, and…

213 00:30:24.820 ⇒ 00:30:28.890 ABC Austin: I think… I don’t know if he asked me about the monthly or whatever, but…

214 00:30:29.940 ⇒ 00:30:46.690 ABC Austin: I’m someone who, in the moment, I don’t like getting pressured to make decisions, so I’ll be like, I don’t, like, I’ll think about it. If I got… if I got a mail, someone called me, or I don’t… I think I could have… there was a chance. Really? For sure. Yeah, because I don’t like… in the moment, I’m like, I don’t know, or like, I need to talk to somebody. Yeah.

215 00:30:46.860 ⇒ 00:31:00.260 ABC Austin: Unless it’s a real burden. Yeah, but I… I do think that… so some of these… some of these, you just have to run these classic, right, retention campaigns, and it just has become a habitual thing.

216 00:31:00.260 ⇒ 00:31:08.080 ABC Austin: There has to be a process of circling back with these folks, and if it hasn’t been done, we’ll put in just a basic process and, like.

217 00:31:08.080 ⇒ 00:31:25.689 ABC Austin: One week after, one month after, six months, you know, on… via email, at least, to sort of show the value. Because once they’ve already purchased something, the propensity to purchase again is so high. You’ve already won the customer so much higher.

218 00:31:25.690 ⇒ 00:31:43.729 ABC Austin: That, like… Hard part’s already been done. Hard part’s been done, they know the brand, they’ve already gotten a good service. As you can see, like, people are not canceling for, like, like… Yeah, bad service. For bad service, or, like… They’re saying, you guys did your job. Well, you say avoid… there’s not, like, avoidable churn. Right. Like, most of this is,

219 00:31:44.410 ⇒ 00:31:46.840 ABC Austin: It’s not unavoidable, and so, so…

220 00:31:47.170 ⇒ 00:31:49.639 ABC Austin: There’s a huge opportunity there, yeah.

221 00:31:52.400 ⇒ 00:32:01.259 Amber Lin: Cool. This is just a little bit, of a deeper dive on per serve… or per product.

222 00:32:01.280 ⇒ 00:32:15.799 Amber Lin: what was the main cancellation reasons? I think for Terminesh, we were… I think we were close… we terminated that service, or we stopped offering Terminesh. I’m not completely sure, but most of it

223 00:32:15.800 ⇒ 00:32:23.110 Amber Lin: It’s canceled because the contract was fulfilled, it was as needed, not really because it was moving.

224 00:32:23.130 ⇒ 00:32:28.559 Amber Lin: But for example, for… For road and wallet management.

225 00:32:28.740 ⇒ 00:32:37.769 Amber Lin: a lot of it is canceled because it was contract fulfilled, and that makes me question, like, hey, do they really not need that service anymore?

226 00:32:37.770 ⇒ 00:32:38.130 ABC Austin: audiences.

227 00:32:38.130 ⇒ 00:32:43.980 Amber Lin: Just not reminded them that, hey, you’re gonna… if you had rest before, you might still get them again.

228 00:32:44.710 ⇒ 00:32:48.779 ABC Austin: Yeah. And that’d be interesting. So we did change our renewal process.

229 00:32:49.970 ⇒ 00:32:54.360 ABC Austin: 5, 7 years ago? Compare that 10 years ago.

230 00:32:55.790 ⇒ 00:32:58.399 ABC Austin: Yeah, no, there’s real churn there.

231 00:32:59.650 ⇒ 00:33:00.240 Amber Lin: Yeah.

232 00:33:00.460 ⇒ 00:33:04.280 ABC Austin: Oh. Can you zoom in a little bit more, Amber?

233 00:33:04.470 ⇒ 00:33:17.399 ABC Austin: There you go. Yeah. That’s what I’ve always worried is, you know, we just send a real easy letter that we’re just gonna renew it, or what are we… it’s like we’re asking for a cancellation. All of the manuals are the big ones.

234 00:33:17.670 ⇒ 00:33:20.860 ABC Austin: Yeah, so moving… And permite, yeah.

235 00:33:20.980 ⇒ 00:33:25.250 ABC Austin: Great thing is… Yeah.

236 00:33:27.930 ⇒ 00:33:43.229 ABC Austin: I mean, part of this is, like, okay, maybe our goal is, like, anything annual, we need to tack on a monthly additional service. Yeah. Because I also think the annuals are probably easiest to churn and, they only think about it once a year. Once a year, and

237 00:33:44.180 ⇒ 00:33:48.280 ABC Austin: I could… yeah, it kind of makes sense that it’s highlighted in that way.

238 00:33:53.540 ⇒ 00:34:04.440 ABC Austin: And yeah, it’s like, oh, it’s been a whole year, no problems, why am I gonna pay another… What am I paying for? Yeah. And Amber, what’s that third column? The third column and the fourth item from the bottom that’s highlighted?

239 00:34:04.850 ⇒ 00:34:11.830 Amber Lin: So, that’s, this one. So, it’s either they change the service type, or a financial hardship…

240 00:34:11.830 ⇒ 00:34:14.159 ABC Austin: Pitching their service orderly.

241 00:34:14.429 ⇒ 00:34:15.790 ABC Austin: That’s called Royd.

242 00:34:15.929 ⇒ 00:34:17.940 ABC Austin: Anytime we run any reports…

243 00:34:17.940 ⇒ 00:34:18.360 Amber Lin: this one.

244 00:34:18.360 ⇒ 00:34:21.529 ABC Austin: much takeout, change service type. For example, okay.

245 00:34:21.929 ⇒ 00:34:23.229 ABC Austin: Man, there’s a safety.

246 00:34:23.760 ⇒ 00:34:26.089 ABC Austin: Term and mesh warranty renewal.

247 00:34:27.000 ⇒ 00:34:31.979 ABC Austin: Yeah, 5-year… Warranty renewal, we do the one year.

248 00:34:32.500 ⇒ 00:34:36.500 ABC Austin: We probably just want to get rid of that, yeah, we have.

249 00:34:39.250 ⇒ 00:34:48.499 ABC Austin: Yeah, maybe there’s something around anyone on annual, we need to run something to push them to a monthly or quarterly service in addition.

250 00:34:51.830 ⇒ 00:34:52.750 ABC Austin: Right.

251 00:34:55.730 ⇒ 00:34:59.050 ABC Austin: Yeah, that’d be interesting to see if we didn’t, because I feel like…

252 00:34:59.810 ⇒ 00:35:02.150 ABC Austin: rodent warranties. We used to go twice a year.

253 00:35:03.020 ⇒ 00:35:13.010 ABC Austin: Or the annual renewal. Seemingly, we really should compare people that have annuals that already have our pest control, like, hey, is it gonna be cheaper for you, like, let us switch you to…

254 00:35:13.470 ⇒ 00:35:31.769 ABC Austin: Especially, especially because they have the pest control have already renewed or run an annual once. Because if they already had renewed an annual once, it shows they see the value in it. You know, if they cancel the first year, it’s like they just want it one time, and it’s still worth trying. But people that have already renewed once and have pellets, like, why would they be on the annuals? We just quit selling annuals.

255 00:35:31.890 ⇒ 00:35:33.420 ABC Austin: Well, we tried to do that.

256 00:35:33.690 ⇒ 00:35:34.770 ABC Austin: Years ago.

257 00:35:35.320 ⇒ 00:35:41.200 ABC Austin: But if they’re… if the only service they have is an AI, When we switch them to…

258 00:35:41.340 ⇒ 00:35:45.170 ABC Austin: Bi-monthly billing, or something like that. Monthly billing.

259 00:35:45.480 ⇒ 00:35:49.069 ABC Austin: Would they be more apt to cancel sooner than a year?

260 00:35:50.100 ⇒ 00:35:59.619 ABC Austin: I think the biggest thing is when it’s annual, you ask them to evaluate the entire year and make a decision if they want to go a whole other year. Yeah. And it’s like, well, what if I got…

261 00:36:00.040 ⇒ 00:36:03.200 ABC Austin: Whereas when we tack it on to their pest control, it’s almost like it’s just…

262 00:36:03.840 ⇒ 00:36:06.220 ABC Austin: wanted to… we marry them together. Right.

263 00:36:06.370 ⇒ 00:36:10.660 ABC Austin: Do we have the option, though? Because obviously one reason, if they…

264 00:36:10.820 ⇒ 00:36:16.170 ABC Austin: If you went annual, or if they’re on annual, you know, it’s $200 a year, switch them to

265 00:36:16.580 ⇒ 00:36:20.260 ABC Austin: Monthly, but they’re not on our pest controls for 30 bucks a month, right?

266 00:36:20.370 ⇒ 00:36:26.679 ABC Austin: That’s way more expensive, so it’s like, do you just have, like, easy pay monthly paying.

267 00:36:26.900 ⇒ 00:36:30.100 ABC Austin: But we’re not actually going out there for bait boxes to keep it.

268 00:36:30.880 ⇒ 00:36:34.900 ABC Austin: It’s like, you can give them 3 months of pest control. Just, you know, sign up on that.

269 00:36:35.180 ⇒ 00:36:37.689 ABC Austin: Anyway, something we obviously keep working with.

270 00:36:39.960 ⇒ 00:36:41.359 ABC Austin: Oh, yeah.

271 00:36:41.970 ⇒ 00:36:52.050 ABC Austin: So yeah, I think… We’re discussing. I think, yeah, part of it is, like, we’ll look at the average length of some of these contracts. I mean, again, it’s tough because most of the deals are a year.

272 00:36:52.250 ⇒ 00:37:01.229 ABC Austin: So, like, they made sure I’m right before that, or, like, that’s gonna have skews from the data, but I am interested to see, like, first, first.

273 00:37:01.440 ⇒ 00:37:18.379 ABC Austin: first product they bought, and, like, how long they stayed, what are the collaboration products, and I’m glad we were able to see the churn races. So there’s, like, at least two clear actions on move prevention, or, like, move mitigation, whatever, like, producing that as, like, a… or some type of win-back around…

274 00:37:18.440 ⇒ 00:37:25.190 ABC Austin: And then, contract ended at Basel, what is, like, our… what is our… Objection handling at that point.

275 00:37:25.420 ⇒ 00:37:34.300 ABC Austin: what service are we comfortable discounting and giving, and… or, like, what is a campaign we run? And then generally, like, we don’t run any,

276 00:37:34.920 ⇒ 00:37:39.290 ABC Austin: non-phone, like, win-back campaign, so there’s just something always on looking at.

277 00:37:39.820 ⇒ 00:37:45.510 ABC Austin: They get to get an email out, you know, Flying back, so… Yeah.

278 00:37:47.090 ⇒ 00:37:47.850 ABC Austin: Whoa.

279 00:37:48.300 ⇒ 00:37:51.109 ABC Austin: Amber, I think Zoran’s on, right?

280 00:37:51.650 ⇒ 00:37:55.960 Amber Lin: Yeah, Lauren’s here, so I think I… Like, maybe it’s wrong constraints.

281 00:37:55.960 ⇒ 00:37:56.619 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I’m clear.

282 00:37:56.620 ⇒ 00:37:57.550 Amber Lin: Through the other slide.

283 00:37:58.930 ⇒ 00:38:01.120 ABC Austin: What’s going on? Howdy, man.

284 00:38:02.360 ⇒ 00:38:05.850 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, got some Google Tag Manager stuff for you guys.

285 00:38:06.750 ⇒ 00:38:26.270 ABC Austin: Yeah, so I don’t know if you guys are… have heard about Google Tag Manager at all, but maybe, Zora, you could give the… Even for me, it’s kind of complicated, you could give the 5th grade version. Oh, no. No, I will, I will, I will. I’ve done a lot of it, but I think, really, Zora, the context I gave is the importance of having…

286 00:38:26.270 ⇒ 00:38:29.729 ABC Austin: like, our Facebook pixel here for retargeting.

287 00:38:29.740 ⇒ 00:38:35.600 ABC Austin: I think if you could just talk about the role of Google Tag Manager in this whole pie of, like.

288 00:38:35.650 ⇒ 00:38:38.770 ABC Austin: Better attribution, better… Retargeting?

289 00:38:40.080 ⇒ 00:38:44.179 ABC Austin: And then the slides will be a little bit technical, and I will… I will translate.

290 00:38:44.300 ⇒ 00:38:47.069 ABC Austin: It did a great job laughing.

291 00:38:49.390 ⇒ 00:38:55.699 Zoran Selinger: I don’t know why I keep hearing you less and less, the volume seems to be lower and lower, I don’t know why.

292 00:38:57.810 ⇒ 00:38:59.729 Amber Lin: Yeah, same for me, it’s a little bit harder.

293 00:38:59.730 ⇒ 00:39:04.540 Zoran Selinger: Okay, okay, it’s on their side, then. I don’t know what… why that is.

294 00:39:04.840 ⇒ 00:39:07.219 ABC Austin: Okay, alright, just tell me if you can’t hear us.

295 00:39:07.630 ⇒ 00:39:09.439 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, you’re back now.

296 00:39:09.440 ⇒ 00:39:12.129 ABC Austin: Alright, I’m just, yeah, I’m just yelling, so…

297 00:39:19.120 ⇒ 00:39:25.139 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, okay, so let me talk about tag management in general, then, first. So.

298 00:39:25.620 ⇒ 00:39:28.340 Zoran Selinger: As you guys know, when we…

299 00:39:28.670 ⇒ 00:39:35.640 Zoran Selinger: when we do marketing campaigns online, we need to track the effectiveness, right? And…

300 00:39:35.830 ⇒ 00:39:51.359 Zoran Selinger: how we call it is conversions, usually, in digital marketing. So each, each platform, basically, they have their own, they call them, in most cases, they call them pixels, right? So they’re little pieces of code.

301 00:39:51.360 ⇒ 00:39:56.219 Zoran Selinger: that track what people do on your website. So, when the traffic from

302 00:39:56.400 ⇒ 00:40:01.860 Zoran Selinger: said advertising platform comes, they will… they will basically note that.

303 00:40:02.010 ⇒ 00:40:20.539 Zoran Selinger: And if you end up on, you know, performing an action on a website that they consider a conversion, that would be recorded in the platform. And, for example, the appropriate keyword or an ad would get credit for that conversion.

304 00:40:20.800 ⇒ 00:40:27.230 Zoran Selinger: So you can imagine now, if we have a big promotional mix, we might have…

305 00:40:28.790 ⇒ 00:40:38.080 Zoran Selinger: quite a few Google Ads conversion pixels in there. Facebook conversion pixel, TikTok, every single platform that we have.

306 00:40:38.240 ⇒ 00:40:41.190 Zoran Selinger: we would have a conversion pixel.

307 00:40:41.470 ⇒ 00:40:51.750 Zoran Selinger: those little pieces of code need to be somehow… need to somehow end up on your website, mostly in the head section of your website.

308 00:40:52.380 ⇒ 00:40:55.849 Zoran Selinger: You can imagine how hard it is to manage those things.

309 00:40:56.060 ⇒ 00:41:05.070 Zoran Selinger: First of all, it’s just a lot of code, that is, that just…

310 00:41:05.440 ⇒ 00:41:07.589 Zoran Selinger: Causes a lot of issues.

311 00:41:08.190 ⇒ 00:41:14.890 Zoran Selinger: it would break, you need to manually update them. Then, also, they slow your website.

312 00:41:15.610 ⇒ 00:41:17.060 Zoran Selinger: more.

313 00:41:17.170 ⇒ 00:41:25.279 Zoran Selinger: And yeah, it’s just hard to maintain. So, we have tag management solutions, like Google Tag Manager.

314 00:41:25.500 ⇒ 00:41:29.509 Zoran Selinger: Where we implement a single piece of code in it.

315 00:41:29.620 ⇒ 00:41:35.340 Zoran Selinger: In your website, and deploy everything else through that one single piece of code.

316 00:41:35.870 ⇒ 00:41:52.170 Zoran Selinger: So, instead of putting every single pixel and conversion pixel into your website directly, this is called, basically, embedding a code on your website, we do it through a tag management solution. Obviously, the most…

317 00:41:52.260 ⇒ 00:41:57.940 Zoran Selinger: popular, tag managing solution is Google Tag Manager.

318 00:41:59.710 ⇒ 00:42:07.520 Zoran Selinger: you’ll see from the screenshots how it looks like. Essentially, you put, you put, a pixel,

319 00:42:07.610 ⇒ 00:42:26.450 Zoran Selinger: in there, they’re called tags in Google Tag Manager, and you essentially, you can create a trigger, which essentially just explains when it needs to fire. It’s as simple as that. You don’t need to know any more details than that. I have to say,

320 00:42:27.270 ⇒ 00:42:33.119 Zoran Selinger: Your account for such a big company, is really good.

321 00:42:33.300 ⇒ 00:42:36.730 Zoran Selinger: So first of all, this first, first thing…

322 00:42:36.730 ⇒ 00:42:41.690 ABC Austin: You always have us start off what you’re gonna say.

323 00:42:42.970 ⇒ 00:42:49.149 Zoran Selinger: No, that is… that is really good. Especially, like, I’ve never seen this.

324 00:42:49.430 ⇒ 00:42:56.700 Zoran Selinger: So whatever… so Joe is doing a really good job in user management, honestly. I’ve seen…

325 00:42:57.440 ⇒ 00:43:05.369 Zoran Selinger: Like, smaller companies with… So many different users, with admin access to everything.

326 00:43:05.370 ⇒ 00:43:21.560 Zoran Selinger: former employees, like, private Gmail addresses, there’s a… there’s maybe a couple here, but the situation that you see, 14 users, with only 2 of them having admin access, and that’s probably the same person, that’s Joe in both accounts.

327 00:43:21.980 ⇒ 00:43:26.899 Zoran Selinger: Right? This is really good. We rarely see this.

328 00:43:26.960 ⇒ 00:43:30.169 Zoran Selinger: Being managed that precisely.

329 00:43:30.170 ⇒ 00:43:49.039 Zoran Selinger: Very, very good. I have to… I’ll have to mention that to Joe. This is… this is excellent. I don’t know if you… maybe, maybe you recognize anyone that shouldn’t be here. I’ll… we’ll send this to Joe as well. See, maybe…

330 00:43:49.040 ⇒ 00:43:54.850 Zoran Selinger: some temporary access to, like, third-party agencies is fine, like.

331 00:43:55.300 ⇒ 00:44:04.180 Zoran Selinger: us for now, right? Hopefully that’s not temporary, and we can… we can assist you there for a long time. But,

332 00:44:04.830 ⇒ 00:44:08.370 Zoran Selinger: This is generally very good.

333 00:44:09.040 ⇒ 00:44:23.429 Zoran Selinger: fair activity on the account. You’re not changing your website and the process that much, so… but we still have, like, monthly changes in there, so it’s… it is being act… actively maintained.

334 00:44:23.580 ⇒ 00:44:29.779 Zoran Selinger: By the way, I wanna, I wanna say this as well. This is mostly nitpicking, because,

335 00:44:30.820 ⇒ 00:44:39.059 Zoran Selinger: To really find, like, specific errors in tracking, we would need to go and really debug each tag on your website.

336 00:44:39.340 ⇒ 00:44:40.549 Zoran Selinger: This is, like.

337 00:44:41.000 ⇒ 00:45:00.289 Zoran Selinger: just looking at the structure, maybe naming structure, you’ll see, this doesn’t, doesn’t, we’re not commenting how it works. This is generally a good Google Tag Manager account, okay? Just someone who, who does this, full-time, being, like, a full tag management specialist.

338 00:45:00.290 ⇒ 00:45:01.020 Zoran Selinger: would…

339 00:45:01.220 ⇒ 00:45:16.990 Zoran Selinger: would find those little small things that I’m talking about here. So there are improvements, and so the maintenance is easier, but it’s generally a good account. I just want to preface this with saying that. Okay.

340 00:45:18.280 ⇒ 00:45:24.169 Zoran Selinger: We currently have… I see that there’s been a cleanup, recently.

341 00:45:24.710 ⇒ 00:45:30.089 Zoran Selinger: We had a few, few publishers that particular day, and we still have

342 00:45:30.220 ⇒ 00:45:49.729 Zoran Selinger: We still have, like, 93 changes that are unpublished, and they are just sitting there for the last 3 weeks. I think it might have been just they forgot to push the publish button. This… this is all just cleanup of the old tags and triggers here, so it does not impact tracking.

343 00:45:50.020 ⇒ 00:45:59.840 Zoran Selinger: at all. This is… this is perfectly fine, but it just… it’s… it’s sitting there. So…

344 00:45:59.970 ⇒ 00:46:09.780 Zoran Selinger: what’s really important, especially when you have such a big account, like, you have 150 tags in there. This is not a small, small number.

345 00:46:10.370 ⇒ 00:46:17.259 Zoran Selinger: For us to easily understand what’s happening, the naming structure of the tag is really, really important.

346 00:46:18.050 ⇒ 00:46:32.930 Zoran Selinger: I see some consistency in there, so the guys are very, very aware of the naming structure, but it’s really easy to stop being consistent with it over, you know, over years.

347 00:46:33.200 ⇒ 00:46:53.480 Zoran Selinger: if you don’t have, like, an OCD, like many of us do. So it can be really hard to not drop a ball on those. So we do see some inconsistencies there, and it’s kind of going to be harder because of that to figure out exactly what every tag does.

348 00:46:53.750 ⇒ 00:47:03.270 Zoran Selinger: And, you know, we need to fire and all that. So, just improvements on the naming structure of triggers and tags.

349 00:47:04.920 ⇒ 00:47:06.429 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, and…

350 00:47:06.440 ⇒ 00:47:21.200 Zoran Selinger: for example, the use of folders in Google Tag Manager. We actually see this very rarely, and it’s a really good feature, and Joe is using it, so that’s, I have to commend him for that. That is really good. We still have some unfiled

351 00:47:21.200 ⇒ 00:47:27.529 Zoran Selinger: Items that are still sitting outside of a folder, but that is very, very good to see.

352 00:47:27.530 ⇒ 00:47:29.290 Zoran Selinger: Now…

353 00:47:29.300 ⇒ 00:47:46.639 Zoran Selinger: the biggest change that I see for this, like, for the maintenance of that account is the tag consolidation. So you could see, for example, a few… two examples of tags that are very, very similar, with

354 00:47:46.680 ⇒ 00:47:58.369 Zoran Selinger: maybe a location change, like a different location, or maybe a different step. We have… we have ways in Google Tag Manager to, use as variables

355 00:47:58.580 ⇒ 00:48:14.930 Zoran Selinger: which would make all of those 3 tags and 6 different triggers into one tag and one trigger. Obviously, making it easier for us to understand what’s happening, and making it easier to manage. And we kind of…

356 00:48:15.420 ⇒ 00:48:32.630 Zoran Selinger: we… once we go into the account, instead of looking at 150 tags, we now have, you know, maybe 30, because we consolidated tags into… this is a very, kind of, advanced concept in tag management. Most companies

357 00:48:32.630 ⇒ 00:48:37.259 Zoran Selinger: Don’t do that, but it’s a really, it’s a really good…

358 00:48:37.290 ⇒ 00:48:41.810 Zoran Selinger: Good feature, and we should, we should absolutely, absolutely do it.

359 00:48:41.810 ⇒ 00:48:49.509 ABC Austin: Yeah, to just, like, pause on this example, like, what you’re seeing. So, you’re seeing two pixels, one from Facebook, one from…

360 00:48:50.070 ⇒ 00:48:54.940 ABC Austin: CalCon, Sacadapt, probably have some fun phone call software.

361 00:48:55.090 ⇒ 00:48:58.270 ABC Austin: So in the Facebook one, all we’re doing is

362 00:48:58.430 ⇒ 00:49:03.319 ABC Austin: As you can see, there’s something for… Conversion enter info.

363 00:49:03.460 ⇒ 00:49:13.200 ABC Austin: order and checkout, right? Yeah. So all, literally all this is doing is when someone gets to that step, it tells Facebook, this person got to that step.

364 00:49:13.580 ⇒ 00:49:22.270 ABC Austin: What that helps Facebook do is say, great, what ads did I just show them? Or who are they? Yeah. And then when you go… when you go run ads on Facebook.

365 00:49:22.270 ⇒ 00:49:39.730 ABC Austin: they start to optimize for you, right? They’re like, okay, we know that they’re similar to this person, so let’s put the right ad in front of them. So, this is similar to the second piece, right? So, you can see there’s something on click-to-call trigger, there’s, like, two of those, and there’s something else. All that’s probably doing is telling

366 00:49:39.990 ⇒ 00:49:49.719 ABC Austin: the phone call system, that there is a call being made, and so let’s help the phone system either both measure that, or also, like, maybe understand

367 00:49:49.730 ⇒ 00:50:00.359 ABC Austin: what the properties were of the person that ended up clicking those. And so, anytime there’s a system that wants that attribution, you use Tag Manager to put that tag on the site.

368 00:50:00.440 ⇒ 00:50:19.070 ABC Austin: The alternative thing here is actually go edit the code and do that. So, Tag Manager came up as a way for you to easily be like, cool, I want my Facebook one, I want my other CRM one, I want this one. Plug them all in there. And plug them all in there, right? And so, like, as more advertising systems come about.

369 00:50:19.160 ⇒ 00:50:23.490 ABC Austin: This is what the team is using to add those pixels onto the website.

370 00:50:23.840 ⇒ 00:50:33.609 ABC Austin: You know, really, really quickly, but again, because this is a… this is a big company, there’s a lot of different tags in there, this can get, like, unruly. Yeah.

371 00:50:34.450 ⇒ 00:50:37.459 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, and also, you, you…

372 00:50:37.650 ⇒ 00:50:46.990 Zoran Selinger: you mentioned a good point as well there, that reminded me, without Google Tag Management systems,

373 00:50:47.570 ⇒ 00:51:00.200 Zoran Selinger: marketers wouldn’t be able to do this by themselves. We would need to go to developers for every single request and change, and this would be an absolute nightmare.

374 00:51:00.710 ⇒ 00:51:15.949 Zoran Selinger: You can imagine how slow we would be in implementing any kind of tracking, especially, like, changes and new ones. It would be really, really difficult. So this enables marketers to do it by themselves.

375 00:51:17.350 ⇒ 00:51:22.410 Zoran Selinger: And yeah, last two things, and this is… this is really nitpicking.

376 00:51:22.650 ⇒ 00:51:41.740 Zoran Selinger: We do have, like, optimization, optimization, changes that we could make, that can slightly improve your, your page speeds, decrease the, the, the number of, like, requests we’re making on each, each page, just by

377 00:51:42.440 ⇒ 00:51:55.599 Zoran Selinger: kind of sequencing and limiting some tags, and when they fire. This is, like, these are advanced concepts, they’re not being used here. Again.

378 00:51:56.230 ⇒ 00:52:02.890 Zoran Selinger: This is not a mistake, per se, but it’s a, like, it’s a missed opportunity for optimization.

379 00:52:03.020 ⇒ 00:52:13.020 Zoran Selinger: And that is really it. We have, like, text sequencing and limiting firings to once per page.

380 00:52:14.200 ⇒ 00:52:20.530 Zoran Selinger: And yeah, that’s… that’s essentially, that’s essentially it. So, we can… it’s…

381 00:52:21.380 ⇒ 00:52:29.149 Zoran Selinger: we can make a lot of improvements there, but in general, this is a good, good GTM account, and it’s,

382 00:52:29.840 ⇒ 00:52:33.480 Zoran Selinger: we should continue to maintain it. Obviously.

383 00:52:33.610 ⇒ 00:52:43.259 Zoran Selinger: we are coming into the, and I never… I haven’t mentioned this here, we are coming into this area of

384 00:52:43.790 ⇒ 00:52:46.320 Zoran Selinger: Tracking prevention and

385 00:52:46.600 ⇒ 00:52:54.629 Zoran Selinger: Trying to, trying to, keep as… as much tracking as we can, and there…

386 00:52:54.760 ⇒ 00:53:03.299 Zoran Selinger: we can transfer a lot of these onto the server side, for example. This is… this is a, like, technically very complicated topic.

387 00:53:03.410 ⇒ 00:53:12.350 Zoran Selinger: But a lot of, like, you know what ad blockers are. You probably use, some of them.

388 00:53:13.480 ⇒ 00:53:18.540 Zoran Selinger: So these are… we can fight ad blockers to some extent.

389 00:53:18.580 ⇒ 00:53:37.600 Zoran Selinger: by moving some of this stuff away from the website, essentially, into a server where, actually, the server will send a tracking request to Google Analytics or, you know, Facebook Pixel, instead of it coming from your browser.

390 00:53:37.650 ⇒ 00:53:47.710 Zoran Selinger: Right? So… aside from Google Tag Manager, there’s also, like, server-side tagging that can be easily plugged into this.

391 00:53:48.260 ⇒ 00:53:52.720 Zoran Selinger: Which will improve the accuracy, meaning

392 00:53:52.850 ⇒ 00:54:06.039 Zoran Selinger: For some of the requests that are blocked by ad blockers, we will be able to still track those interactions, because the server-side tagging won’t be blocked.

393 00:54:07.210 ⇒ 00:54:23.529 Zoran Selinger: So there’s also that concept, we’ll probably talk about it a little bit more, but there are things that are essentially more urgent and things that we should focus on more, but we’ll get… we’ll probably get to a point when we start talking about

394 00:54:24.280 ⇒ 00:54:32.909 Zoran Selinger: Fighting the… the tracking prevention, and, like, we just, we just… Also, started doing something

395 00:54:33.060 ⇒ 00:54:45.069 Zoran Selinger: really advanced in the edge layer, and that’s battling that even better, but we’ll get to those conversations. So, yeah, this is… this is only, only a start.

396 00:54:45.200 ⇒ 00:54:51.179 Zoran Selinger: But it’s… it is… it is very important. In general, very good account.

397 00:54:52.960 ⇒ 00:54:53.650 ABC Austin: Alright, Kate.

398 00:54:53.650 ⇒ 00:54:53.990 Zoran Selinger: End quote.

399 00:54:53.990 ⇒ 00:55:01.359 ABC Austin: Can we talk about, like, bot prevention and bot traffic, and something that we went through last week.

400 00:55:01.570 ⇒ 00:55:10.189 ABC Austin: Can you… what we didn’t go through is, like, what are the actions to take there immediately? Like, can you just, like, talk a little bit about… about that?

401 00:55:10.820 ⇒ 00:55:24.369 ABC Austin: And also, like, what the impact, apart from just, like, those… they’re showing up on the charts, like, what is the impact of having too much bot traffic on your site? I think that’s actually sometimes not really obvious.

402 00:55:24.660 ⇒ 00:55:28.559 ABC Austin: Well, I mean, bots are just there when they leave, right? Yeah. They scan all the paper.

403 00:55:28.870 ⇒ 00:55:34.090 ABC Austin: What is the negative of that? Yeah, they pick up statistics of who you’re trying to…

404 00:55:34.480 ⇒ 00:55:40.819 ABC Austin: attract, or… or anything? Yeah, maybe, Zora, you can talk about, like, what the impact is of having too much bot traffic.

405 00:55:41.420 ⇒ 00:55:51.530 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, I mean, the obvious one, and you saw those things last week, is they’re introducing so much noise.

406 00:55:51.590 ⇒ 00:56:09.270 Zoran Selinger: to our data sets, which is essentially increasing our error rates when do… when we do any kind of analysis. And we have to invest additional effort into filtering that traffic, filtering that traffic out. All of those things impact the

407 00:56:09.580 ⇒ 00:56:25.300 Zoran Selinger: essentially everything, because a lot of the things we’ll do in, like, the warehouse. So, first of all, there, like, we are increasing the size of the data in the warehouse, because we are logging these things in there.

408 00:56:25.300 ⇒ 00:56:33.400 Zoran Selinger: Then, anytime we do any kind of analysis, we have, like, additional step of filtering that stuff out, which is…

409 00:56:33.510 ⇒ 00:56:43.099 Zoran Selinger: like, increasing your, your storage and computing costs, and impact, essentially, essentially everything.

410 00:56:43.490 ⇒ 00:56:50.080 Zoran Selinger: There are ways to battle this even before the website loads.

411 00:56:50.080 ⇒ 00:57:06.870 Zoran Selinger: and this is on the level of your CDN, for example. So, this is essentially a server that serves your web page to users across the country, right? So, you probably have this, your website hosted on a CDN,

412 00:57:07.010 ⇒ 00:57:12.639 Zoran Selinger: Essentially, for people in New York, your website would load from a New York server.

413 00:57:13.280 ⇒ 00:57:22.109 Zoran Selinger: For people in… it’s… maybe here is not a good example, but you’ll have, like, those cities that you have, that you serve, right?

414 00:57:22.140 ⇒ 00:57:37.929 Zoran Selinger: CDN that you use will have servers in each of those cities. So, it will be… your website will be served for the nearest location, right? So, CDNs these days use a lot of

415 00:57:38.140 ⇒ 00:57:39.150 Zoran Selinger: bought…

416 00:57:39.670 ⇒ 00:57:53.770 Zoran Selinger: kind of both, traffic prevention as well. Also, anything, like, anything, malicious, or they’re doing their best to do it, right? But now, we started doing,

417 00:57:54.690 ⇒ 00:58:12.359 Zoran Selinger: before the website loads, like, CDN gets the request to load your website. At that point, before we send the website to a browser, to a user, we can start doing magical stuff, because we have

418 00:58:13.020 ⇒ 00:58:16.709 Zoran Selinger: Places where we can run our code now.

419 00:58:17.690 ⇒ 00:58:23.639 Zoran Selinger: So we can do… we can do filtering based on the IP address, and say, okay, just…

420 00:58:23.860 ⇒ 00:58:28.049 Zoran Selinger: Don’t serve the website to this particular user at all.

421 00:58:28.370 ⇒ 00:58:29.140 Zoran Selinger: Like…

422 00:58:29.670 ⇒ 00:58:42.529 Zoran Selinger: we saw that we have, like, traffic from Singapore. We can be as strict in saying, if you see a Singapore IP address, just download the page. And then, at that point, this particular

423 00:58:42.600 ⇒ 00:58:54.120 Zoran Selinger: Like, the data that visit does not come into our system at all. We will not see it in GA4, we will not see it in our databases, we will not see it anywhere, right?

424 00:58:54.210 ⇒ 00:59:09.999 Zoran Selinger: Because we are filtering this out. Obviously, some of the advanced CDN platforms, they have… we don’t have to write… we don’t necessarily have to write code. There are, like, interfaces where you… you can add rules to do those things.

425 00:59:10.020 ⇒ 00:59:25.550 Zoran Selinger: I haven’t looked into exactly how your website is served, but I would presume that you are being… you’re either in CloudFront or in Cloudflare.

426 00:59:25.660 ⇒ 00:59:33.770 Zoran Selinger: But we can… we can have that conversation with… with Joe. He’ll probably know.

427 00:59:34.840 ⇒ 00:59:40.829 ABC Austin: Do you see that that’s a common practice, where people will, like, limit out, like, Singapore, or…

428 00:59:41.000 ⇒ 00:59:45.370 ABC Austin: They just kind of take the nuisance of just scrubbing out that data when they’re compiling it.

429 00:59:47.060 ⇒ 00:59:55.019 Zoran Selinger: most… most companies won’t… won’t do a lot of filtering on the request level.

430 00:59:55.860 ⇒ 01:00:00.230 Zoran Selinger: You have to re… obviously, you have to be really careful

431 01:00:00.670 ⇒ 01:00:14.339 Zoran Selinger: about what you’re doing at that point. That, obviously, you’re block… you’re fully blocking the website for a portion of your visitors, so you… you do have to be careful,

432 01:00:14.340 ⇒ 01:00:30.589 ABC Austin: Zoran, given, like, how, like, for a lot of our other businesses, they’re like, well, there may be a customer there, right? So, it’s harder… People that ship things. Yeah, it’s just harder, and so, like, a really common example is, like, Pakistan has a lot of people running bot and fraud traffic.

433 01:00:30.590 ⇒ 01:00:34.509 ABC Austin: So there’ll be a lot of companies that are like, what do we do about it? So then they’ll have, like.

434 01:00:34.510 ⇒ 01:00:45.649 ABC Austin: some more advanced methods, like, if it’s coming from the site, put a captcha, things like that. In this situation, though, I feel like y’all are lucky, because it surely be… What are you doing passive thing for? Yeah, so…

435 01:00:45.650 ⇒ 01:00:59.440 ABC Austin: Azaran, I feel like we should honestly be more aggressive, because my point is that if your site is getting a lot of fraud traffic and bounces, you will actually, like, I think it’ll affect you in Search Console, right? And in Ranking.

436 01:00:59.680 ⇒ 01:01:06.909 ABC Austin: So that’s more of my point, is that, like, there is a risk to your ranking within Google if your stuff is getting spammed a lot.

437 01:01:06.910 ⇒ 01:01:25.860 ABC Austin: And so, like, in this situation, I’m… The only person we would lose is somebody that’s possibly in Singapore, that lives in our market, that is just traveling there, and searching for us while traveling. Yes, yes, yes, that’s a long situation. I think they can just… They’re in Singapore, they go, my house is like… Enjoy your vacation. Yeah.

438 01:01:25.860 ⇒ 01:01:30.600 ABC Austin: Yeah. Oh, wait, I need to get pest control off. But I would say it’s gonna be 1 out of,

439 01:01:30.630 ⇒ 01:01:34.000 ABC Austin: Clearly, like, hundreds of thousands of jobs we’re doing.

440 01:01:34.910 ⇒ 01:01:45.629 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, exactly. And there might be a couple that are routing the traffic through a Singapore VPN, right? Which is, I don’t know why anyone would do that.

441 01:01:45.830 ⇒ 01:01:46.850 Zoran Selinger: Yeah, so…

442 01:01:46.850 ⇒ 01:01:47.759 ABC Austin: And just say, like.

443 01:01:47.760 ⇒ 01:01:49.650 Zoran Selinger: It’s lower risk for you guys.

444 01:01:49.650 ⇒ 01:01:51.960 ABC Austin: Yeah, I’d be penalty. Yeah.

445 01:01:53.340 ⇒ 01:01:56.529 Zoran Selinger: I agree with Utang here. We can be more aggressive.

446 01:01:56.530 ⇒ 01:01:56.860 ABC Austin: I assume.

447 01:01:56.860 ⇒ 01:02:02.239 Zoran Selinger: In your case, because you’re a very, a local service, and,

448 01:02:02.470 ⇒ 01:02:07.959 Zoran Selinger: There’s simply much, much lower risk of doing anything aggressive like that.

449 01:02:07.960 ⇒ 01:02:22.479 ABC Austin: Alright, the benefit of scrubbing out that bot traffic outweighs the possible… Yeah, and even, like, yeah, as we’re testing everything, the data is really important for us to show Lyft, and every time we have to scrub out noise or be worried about that, it’s,

450 01:02:22.600 ⇒ 01:02:25.190 ABC Austin: cost is actually some time there, too.

451 01:02:25.370 ⇒ 01:02:29.429 ABC Austin: I think, like, maybe to wrap a bow on this whole thing, like, this is…

452 01:02:29.700 ⇒ 01:02:35.900 ABC Austin: this, I really wanted to share, because this is the level where teeth, I’m hoping whoever is the CMO coming in… Yeah.

453 01:02:35.950 ⇒ 01:02:52.359 ABC Austin: this is the type of thing that they would be interacting with Zorong on, right? Like, we don’t expect everybody to get an understanding of, like, why pixel management is important. It’s a very narrow topic, but I wanted to share this, which is, like, one, this is the depth at which, like, marketing goes, and, like, a great

454 01:02:52.360 ⇒ 01:02:56.879 ABC Austin: marketing… so we call it MarTech, it’s like marketing technology, and so…

455 01:02:56.990 ⇒ 01:03:05.409 ABC Austin: This is a great example of, like, I’m hopeful that whoever comes in is aware of the importance here, and is like, okay, great, like, Brakeport team can just handle making that.

456 01:03:05.970 ⇒ 01:03:20.270 ABC Austin: that system run, and it’s great that Joe is also doing that. And so, again, like, there’s a couple of other systems like this that are running in the background of power that we just want to make sure are set up well and are, like, serving us.

457 01:03:20.610 ⇒ 01:03:26.279 ABC Austin: And so that’s kind of, like, why I wanted to share this today. Would that be something that…

458 01:03:26.600 ⇒ 01:03:34.389 ABC Austin: like, Monkey Boy should have brought up to us, though? No, I mean, meaning, like… Like, hey, we should really block out all these people from Singapore.

459 01:03:34.750 ⇒ 01:03:52.260 ABC Austin: I mean, I would… Is that something that usually website developers usually… No, not the developers, because the developers are not looking at the data. They’re not looking at that ad. Yeah, they’re maintaining that you could do the things you want to do, which is the site’s up. They’re keeping the performance high. You can update the copy, let’s get the blog out.

460 01:03:52.350 ⇒ 01:04:04.649 ABC Austin: That’s what… and Joe… even Joe is kind of like, we… we have… he’s like, he… they notice there’s… they’re great, they notice these things, but without the direction or the decision, they’re not going to go ahead and do that, because…

461 01:04:04.670 ⇒ 01:04:12.489 ABC Austin: the risk is very, very high. Okay. So now, like, again, we’re kind of the intermediary, which is like, you can go to them and they’ll execute, which is great.

462 01:04:12.560 ⇒ 01:04:13.980 ABC Austin: So, yeah.

463 01:04:15.190 ⇒ 01:04:16.840 ABC Austin: Makes sense. Yeah.

464 01:04:17.400 ⇒ 01:04:18.060 Zoran Selinger: No.

465 01:04:18.800 ⇒ 01:04:19.470 ABC Austin: Oh.

466 01:04:19.570 ⇒ 01:04:20.480 ABC Austin: Okay.

467 01:04:20.670 ⇒ 01:04:22.260 ABC Austin: Anything else, Soran?

468 01:04:23.060 ⇒ 01:04:26.129 Zoran Selinger: No, that’s… I think that’s, that’s good for now, yeah.

469 01:04:26.130 ⇒ 01:04:31.469 ABC Austin: Okay. That wasn’t so bad, very well understand. Yeah, I mean, I… yeah, I know if you get…

470 01:04:31.570 ⇒ 01:04:38.779 ABC Austin: there’s just this world of digital marketing. It is heavy. It is very deep, and, like, Zoran is…

471 01:04:39.240 ⇒ 01:04:54.589 ABC Austin: is doing much more complicated stuff than just that, and… well, all that is to show is that, like, there’s just a long road of getting this, but there’s some easy wins right now to just improve tracking and attribution and start getting some…

472 01:04:54.750 ⇒ 01:04:56.549 ABC Austin: some advertising going.

473 01:04:56.580 ⇒ 01:05:15.920 ABC Austin: Where you can really measure the traffic. Like, this is… these things are not possible through radio TV. You know, like, being able to do that full funnel. And so, that’s where, like, one thing, even over the year, and with whoever comes in to take on, is more than likely, they’re gonna look at how the budgets are distributed.

474 01:05:16.120 ⇒ 01:05:19.079 ABC Austin: And really, that conversation, it may not be, like.

475 01:05:19.220 ⇒ 01:05:32.650 ABC Austin: cut those channels, but it’s actually leveraged Facebook to show you what’s working, to then go do things on the channels where you can’t measure it. The risk is really high. Facebook, you can actually see, like, I put a dollar in, I’m getting this out. Right.

476 01:05:32.660 ⇒ 01:05:40.900 ABC Austin: you sort of want to pack that as full as you can. And then, where people use TV, radio, billboard is, like.

477 01:05:40.960 ⇒ 01:05:58.730 ABC Austin: there’s… they’ve maximized those, and there’s things about awareness that are still super possible. Overall brand. Overall brand and things like that, like, okay, we’re actually okay with not necessarily being like, did someone watch a billboard and go home? Right, right, right. There’s this overall awareness campaign, but it is… it’s called that, it’s like an awareness campaign.

478 01:05:58.730 ⇒ 01:06:02.009 ABC Austin: Versus a conversion campaign. Yeah.

479 01:06:03.920 ⇒ 01:06:09.820 ABC Austin: And so, I mean, that’s… those two are the things I really wanted to go through today. I think we’ll follow up next week.

480 01:06:09.930 ⇒ 01:06:12.889 ABC Austin: With a bunch of action items on the…

481 01:06:13.170 ⇒ 01:06:27.990 ABC Austin: the services, the combination, the LTV. And then, really, the thing on the commercial side, all I kind of want to express is, like, it’s the same playbook as we’re doing on the business side.

482 01:06:28.210 ⇒ 01:06:31.489 ABC Austin: So this, again, when we talk about, like.

483 01:06:31.720 ⇒ 01:06:49.899 ABC Austin: our capacity to take some of these bets, there’s… the commercial side is, like, wide open. And so, there will be an amount of, like, can we just drive some commercial traffic to the website where they can book something? Are we able to even advertise to those commercial buyers? But it’s the same playbook.

484 01:06:49.980 ⇒ 01:06:59.479 ABC Austin: there are different things that you could do in commercial that you can’t do in consumer, because there is a finite amount. Right. You can get their emails, you can actually do interesting things.

485 01:06:59.560 ⇒ 01:07:10.729 ABC Austin: And so there are ways for us to leverage the same stuff there. And so, like, when we present, like, options, again, because of the breadth of things to do, it’s really going to be

486 01:07:11.210 ⇒ 01:07:14.329 ABC Austin: What are things we do within 3, 6, 9 months?

487 01:07:14.640 ⇒ 01:07:34.250 ABC Austin: to show the incremental benefit, and then get to the things that, okay, maybe it takes a broader strategy, or it’s gonna be a little bit hard. Ultimately, though, for anything we do, we have to be able to show the lift, so there’s some amount of data platform work. Like, how can an Amber put together, even a David, or anybody put together something like that?

488 01:07:34.540 ⇒ 01:07:50.399 ABC Austin: in a live dashboard, right? Because she’s… she’s hustling every week, because, as you can tell the screenshot, she’s just really trying to muscle through all the data to figure, get the insights, but it shouldn’t be that hard. You know, and how do we come… how do we come monthly or weekly

489 01:07:50.810 ⇒ 01:08:01.430 ABC Austin: Where a lot of folks can actually see those views, focus on just their service, or just their region. That’s what we want to drive to.

490 01:08:01.640 ⇒ 01:08:09.880 ABC Austin: Which we’ve made great strides, like, we have all the Evolve data, we have all the Google Analytics data, we’re getting the Dream data.

491 01:08:10.180 ⇒ 01:08:18.279 ABC Austin: Without access to all the core systems, like, the path is actually, like, totally possible. Yeah. Yeah.

492 01:08:18.899 ⇒ 01:08:19.710 ABC Austin: Cool.

493 01:08:23.420 ⇒ 01:08:25.549 ABC Austin: Excited for next week? No. Yeah.

494 01:08:25.710 ⇒ 01:08:31.550 ABC Austin: I’ve been hyping it up. Yeah, so I think that’s… that’s probably my… my only question is, is, like.

495 01:08:31.729 ⇒ 01:08:35.409 ABC Austin: What do you think the appetite is for something that’s more of, like.

496 01:08:35.670 ⇒ 01:08:40.780 ABC Austin: on a performance basis. Like, I think that’s… that’s kind of, like, what I’m interested in maybe…

497 01:08:40.970 ⇒ 01:08:44.030 ABC Austin: It’s also something, like, I can ask Matt, but…

498 01:08:44.720 ⇒ 01:08:51.190 ABC Austin: I feel like what’s unique about the way we’ve tried to approach business with ABC is trying to do things in that, like.

499 01:08:51.399 ⇒ 01:08:52.509 ABC Austin: Let’s try to…

500 01:08:52.710 ⇒ 01:09:03.840 ABC Austin: let’s try to drive, like, you’re seeing in Andy, we just hit… we’re hitting, like, I think we just hit 7,000 sessions in the last 2 months. So we’re growing.

501 01:09:03.840 ⇒ 01:09:28.509 ABC Austin: Good, I wish it took shorter, but we are starting to do that. But I will say, in this deal, ABC got the good side of the deal. Like, it wasn’t expensive, we still developed it, and now I think it’s, like, we’re able to show that, like, Mechanical’s using it, S is using it, it’s now in the workflow, and it’s working really well. And so, for me, I’m actually excited to continue to structure as many of our deals with our

502 01:09:28.510 ⇒ 01:09:29.869 ABC Austin: Customers in that way, where, like.

503 01:09:29.870 ⇒ 01:09:49.760 ABC Austin: okay, let’s, like, drive towards, if we’re able to get organic search volume from X to Y, and we… even if we keep the same conversion, it’s gonna release this amount of money. And then it’s a conversation about, like, okay, it’s found revenue, right? Versus, oh, it’s just gonna be X amount every month, and, like, there’s… it’s not a through line to…

504 01:09:50.640 ⇒ 01:09:54.919 ABC Austin: the dollars that ABC is getting. Yeah. And it’s not often that we have

505 01:09:55.190 ⇒ 01:10:04.360 ABC Austin: clients that are both receptive to that, and the fact that, like, it’s a risk for us, because we have to… we have to hit it. We have to… so…

506 01:10:04.450 ⇒ 01:10:19.529 ABC Austin: it’s something that even when I first… But it’s also on us to make the recommendations and changes of the tweets. Totally, totally, yeah, like, we can’t… We don’t want y’all to get affected because we’re talking our ass on making the changes. No, and I wouldn’t… there are some companies where I can’t offer that, because I know…

507 01:10:19.570 ⇒ 01:10:26.920 ABC Austin: that they may not take it. They moved, yeah. And so I’m like, we have to get… we have to get paid. Yeah. You know,

508 01:10:26.920 ⇒ 01:10:39.590 ABC Austin: I know it makes it a team effort, but you’re putting your money online with Bernard’s online, that, hey, we’re trusting you, but you gotta trust us too. Yes. It’ll just be, like, a combination of both, pretty much. And so that’s what, ultimately, there’s, for example, there’s some things like the data platform work.

509 01:10:39.590 ⇒ 01:10:55.140 ABC Austin: That’s, like, it’s just cost. It’s just cost and time, and there’s clearly a thing, so what we’re probably gonna propose is, like, there’s some of these, like, variable projects, like, okay, let’s just, like, clean up our SEO and our… for the GEO stuff.

510 01:10:55.260 ⇒ 01:11:04.379 ABC Austin: okay, like, that’s maybe 3 months, we’re gonna focus on 3 verticals, we’re just making this lift. Yeah. We get this lift, it’s gonna be this amount of money to you, like, can we agree on some piece of that?

511 01:11:04.540 ⇒ 01:11:08.400 ABC Austin: There’s also things of, like, running the monthly business reviews, where I’m like.

512 01:11:08.720 ⇒ 01:11:24.930 ABC Austin: I feel like that’s gonna impact a lot, but for us to put a price on, like, how that’s gonna impact is a lot harder, and it may not be worth it. It’s gonna take us a fixed amount of time to implement, get data in one place, model it, put the dashboard together, and so we’re gonna kind of structure

513 01:11:25.150 ⇒ 01:11:43.629 ABC Austin: projects in that manner. And of course, like, for me, it’s, like, making sure we take the things that we can really get good wins at, and really building the monthly business reviews, the weekly business reviews, getting data to all the teams to go access. It’s similar to the way that people are asking Andy questions, you can ask questions on the data. Doing that.

514 01:11:43.900 ⇒ 01:12:02.610 ABC Austin: like, I always feel like in companies, if we were to charge that, it would just be enormous, because I think that’s really what continues to compound the growth. It just keeps it front of mind the whole time. Yeah, and so it’s… you can… you go from asking questions once a month, maybe not getting an answer until mid-month, then you… so you only have, like.

515 01:12:02.660 ⇒ 01:12:12.659 ABC Austin: 10, 12 decision cycles in a year to doing that 10, 12 per month. It’s like we’re set with margins report. Yeah. You know, and

516 01:12:13.150 ⇒ 01:12:31.360 ABC Austin: So… so that’s kind of, like, how we’re… who we’re thinking about. And then, really, one thing I’m pressing for next week is, like, I have the transfer from our first call… our first meeting here. Yeah. So we’re gonna start answering those questions where I was like, okay, tell me, like, who are the most… who’s the most valuable customer? Like, what makes a great ABC customer, what com… like…

517 01:12:31.360 ⇒ 01:12:43.510 ABC Austin: is it true that if people buy more than two services, right, we kind of already spoiled that one, but, like, those are the things that we’ll leave with, like, can we solve this? Yeah, we solved this. Here is…

518 01:12:43.510 ⇒ 01:12:55.690 ABC Austin: all the hoops we went through to solve it, and here’s all the other goodies we sort of found along the way, and here’s the recommendations and the expected ROI for those recommendations.

519 01:12:56.640 ⇒ 01:13:03.159 ABC Austin: and that… and then pause. And then we can pull up any number of the past decks.

520 01:13:03.460 ⇒ 01:13:08.400 ABC Austin: We’ll have a bunch of follow-ups ready, but that’s sort of how I want to use the time, versus…

521 01:13:08.590 ⇒ 01:13:18.260 ABC Austin: I don’t want to go through every deck. Like, I don’t… I also don’t know… I don’t think Bobby… I don’t know, like, I’m… I’m sort of… I can tell that his demeanor is, like.

522 01:13:20.070 ⇒ 01:13:34.449 ABC Austin: show… show… like, let’s show that we can solve the problem. How much is it going to cost? Let’s make a call on that. It’s sort of, like, how I’m thinking, and so… because I kind of learned that from our first… Oh, he jumped at this right away. So I was like, dude, we should, like…

523 01:13:34.520 ⇒ 01:13:51.969 ABC Austin: I was like, okay, it’s sold fast, but it’s like, I… for me, it was actually more important to give you guys the depth, because this is the team that’s going to be executing on the ground with us, and then for him, it’s just showing, like, okay, there are these challenges, here are the solutions, here are the expected ROI,

524 01:13:53.110 ⇒ 01:13:56.720 ABC Austin: you tell us what you have confidence in, so… Yeah, yeah.

525 01:13:56.770 ⇒ 01:14:21.049 ABC Austin: Yeah, I think some of the higher level, like, I think some of the… Well, when we, especially when we did, like, the ideal customer. The ideal customer, some of the demographic stuff, the service stuff, but very highly, yeah. A little bit of the high level. Clarence’s stuff was really good. I didn’t really like that. And then Amber, some of those pages with the, yeah… I told the team I’m gonna do a best-of highlight reel, of, like, one or two slides. I think Clarence

526 01:14:21.050 ⇒ 01:14:22.730 ABC Austin: All kinds of stuff, of course, is the…

527 01:14:22.960 ⇒ 01:14:41.859 ABC Austin: is the thing of, like, I’m sure Bobby would have seen some of these companies, and, like, understand the market has changed. The comparing of other companies, highlight of those. Yeah, so Clarence will be here, and we’ll go through that, and, like, I think that is sort of the industry chain, which is a lot of what we talked about, like, oh, these types of customers, like.

528 01:14:42.050 ⇒ 01:14:47.709 ABC Austin: millennial versus other customers. So that is something that we need to change their mindset of, not just…

529 01:14:47.710 ⇒ 01:15:10.199 ABC Austin: you know, 50-year-old women. Yeah. Hey, there’s… there’s a lot to it. Yeah, and how to go after them. How to go after those. Then the cost per customer, now some of Amber’s from last week was really good, per customer that wanted to buy, but also showed, like, return per customer, you know, whatever. That one has stuck out with me a lot. Okay. Yeah, and I think that’ll really hit with them, too. Okay. Yeah.

530 01:15:12.060 ⇒ 01:15:13.360 ABC Austin: Cool.

531 01:15:14.880 ⇒ 01:15:17.270 ABC Austin: 1 o’clock next week, right? Yeah, yeah.

532 01:15:17.910 ⇒ 01:15:28.530 ABC Austin: It’ll be fun. I’m pumped, yeah. I feel like I… everyone on the team is, like, they’re… they’re like, oh, I just need more time, I need more data, like, I asked for some, like… but I’m like, the point of this is…

533 01:15:28.530 ⇒ 01:15:47.060 ABC Austin: I told… I put a lot of them, but I told them the point is, you’re not going to finish it. Yeah. It’s gonna take a while. Instead, we want to actually… part of trying to get to this deck is showing it is hard to get to that. Yeah. Even for someone like Amber, trying every which way, and we… we work, evolved, we’ve worked dream.

534 01:15:47.090 ⇒ 01:15:50.840 ABC Austin: And that’s part of the story here. But…

535 01:15:50.910 ⇒ 01:15:56.030 ABC Austin: It’s also, like, even with this… how small and a service you’re able to get, we were able to produce.

536 01:15:56.190 ⇒ 01:15:58.680 ABC Austin: really awesome incentive, so that’ll tell them.

537 01:15:58.710 ⇒ 01:16:15.599 ABC Austin: Yep. I’m like, this is gonna be an interesting one, because we’re not gonna be able to go the distance. Everything we’ve looked at here, we… we just go, we could have never done this ourselves, right? Like, this is just way more likely. A lot of it, too, is cool that it kind of validates some things that we’ve talked about before. It’s kind of like, okay, no, now we have data, and it’s not just…

538 01:16:15.600 ⇒ 01:16:26.539 ABC Austin: Well, I wonder if that’s the case, like, it confirms our feelings, and it fuels our anger, too, at the same time. To fuel your optimism. Yeah, yes, alright, we’ll frame it that way. We’ll frame it that way.

539 01:16:26.650 ⇒ 01:16:36.440 ABC Austin: See, I told you, yeah. No, but I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time. Oh, of course. I appreciate it.

540 01:16:36.560 ⇒ 01:16:40.810 ABC Austin: Yeah, I can answer any questions, by the way, I know this is… This wasn’t.

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